for [Applause] [Applause] [Music] new thanks a lot for being here it's a big pleasure ah thanks for having me vess so Neil thanks a lot it's a big pleasure to receive you here have you seen this scenario here is like with less marketing I love it it's it's just like your book taking away the marketing oh so this is the book stop marketing this Market this is a gift for you just to start this is awesome I appreciate it it's still only in Portuguese but it's okay one day we'll get there yeah one day I'll learn Portuguese or one day I'll launch it in English that works too so new I heard that you are really excited about digital marketing search Eng Gene uh content yeah I told you that I asked chat TBT for controversial phrases of newel and I got many many right you asked him for 10 and you got more than 10 yes then I asked it for more 10 and more 10 do you have a preferred one no go for it okay is content King I don't know about that uh I always like saying content is not King and the reason I say that is did you know 4. 6 billion pieces of content get published on the internet each day W text video images audio the list goes on and on and if you think about it in two days more content is being published than the number of people in the world wow when we crawled the Social Web we crawled around 5 million posts on some of the most popular social sites less than 58% of them got engagement that means 58% got no likes no shares no comments no engagement now the algorithms only show you what other people like and what is getting some traction because they don't want to show you the stuff that no one likes or else you'll stop using these platforms and when we also with our tool Uber sus when we start crawling Google we track over 7 billion keywords more than 90% of the pages have gotten zero traffic from Google in the last 30 days that are than 90% more than 90% it just shows that creating content doesn't mean guarantee success but what you need to focus on is promoting the content assuming it's amazing yeah doing great content and then planning around it let's see I know you have been in Brazil several times you have been in many cities right so let me ask something to check if you really know Brazil do you know what is Pamona no Pamona it's a sweet food made of corn ah so it's something very origional that we like it in every place in Brazil but the story behind uh pya is that it was born with a marketing technique that is very well known in Brazil there is a car going around the houses with a speaker screaming loudly p p p and this is how we get to know that the set of pya is around us and we get out of the house and go to buy it's like what they do in America for ice cream trucks yeah maybe so we don't have many cases or many products being sold like this in Brazil pamya really owns this media channel okay but reality is that is that when we are at home you you don't want to be bothered with somebody screening in your window Etc right so what I see today is that do people doing in the in the digital world some things that are similar to the pya car so they are just trying to mply content and interrupt you and annoy you and multiply the presence of their logos and trying to scream and scream and scream pan has sold in the past a lot with this technique but today we have better ways of doing that right I I agree and look I consider that good marketing good marketing stands out but great marketing doesn't even look like marketing and the key is to build great marketing and I'll give you a example and you know this because you worked at McDonald's one of the best things I've seen McDonald's do in an ad campaign is they had it's not called a billboard but they actually put something out there kind of like a billboard and it smelled like McDonald's french fries yes I saw it and then people want to start eating McDonald's frenchise I'm like oh that's a really cool just because of this mail yes I used to say this is is a result of the consistency right yeah so when you go to a stand-up comedy show many many times the artist take the mic he says only three bad words there was no joke and everybody's laughing why because you saw many so many jokes of these artists that just by looking at the comedian you already laughing because you remember so when you smell McDonald's uh cheese you remember the experiences you had but you need to be very consistent to get to this point right so in digital marketing what would you recommend for somebody that is trying to sell ponya but is not willing to put a car scream in the streets they want to sell something only to people that wants the how would you do I would actually go look to see where the demand is instead of spending all the money screaming on the streets pona pona at this point people already familiar with the brand or if they're not familiar with the brand they may have the problem and you got to figure out a is your solution better than others and B can you do it in a more efficient way or more cost effective way so then you look to see where those problems are are people typing them on Google are they searching on social media for the answers are they going to Q&A sites right are they already paying a competitor but they don't solve the problem and they don't really do exactly what you do but maybe you can partner with them and they can cross- sell your product for you there's a lot of ways to skin the cat but the way you have to really think about it is problem and solution selling don't just try to scream and convince people to buy your product or service look to see who has a problem that you can help and go and help them that's the best way to generate revenue is it the reason why small companies tend to have a better result in the internet than big companies because they can focus on specific problems and specific groups of people that have a need I I I think small companies have it easier because a they're starting with less baggage less history so it's easier for them to create any new campaign they want without red tape um and B when you're a newer smaller company you tend not to have as many products or services so you don't have to do marketing for a hundred different things just makes it easier so being focused is an advantage now I heard the other day you saying that uh people are on average in more than five social networks and and uh we should be present in all of them uh would you really recommend for any brand to be present in all the social networks to talk to customers or try to focus on few ones where you can make it better so you were spoton the average person is on more than six social networks according to demand's agage and the way social networks work is not that someone just uses Facebook they use Facebook they use Instagram they use Tik Tok they use x they use YouTube the list goes on and on they may use some social networks more than others and some less than others but they're on them nonetheless and when you post on social media are you advertised not all your followers or not all your ideal customers will see your ad or see your content so ideally you should leverage as many as possible where your ideal customers are on but here's the catch there's not enough time in the day so you repurpose by repurposing you can capture a lot of the audience without having to continually reinvent whe at the beginning though it's hard and too hard to do it for all six networks plus networks when you're starting off so I would recommend is start with one or two get it scaled get it going well take your learnings apply it to the next one or two social networks then continue expand until you hit six seven 8 nine social networks but how to choose the first one to start think of it as spaghetti you know spaghetti is cook when you throw it at against the wall and it sticks right yes so think of the same thing with your marketing try five or six social networks the one that is giving you the most traction and looks the most promising stick with that one and ignore the rest until you scale it all up cool and talking about social networks I see that uh when I wrote the book I did a study trying to understand the brands versus people presence in Instagram out of the out of the 25 most followed accounts in the world we have only two brands that are present there we have Nike and we have National Geographic but they are not among the top 10 we just have people people people people is it because of the algorithm because of it is a social network or because the brands didn't understand the game I think it's neither I think the real reason is people relate to people better than they relate to Brands and I think that's why they do well on the social networks social networks push the brands but if people don't want to follow him they don't want to follow him we all can relate to people look at the new Mark Zuckerberg a lot of people hated the old Mark Zuckerberg now this guy's wearing gold chains he has curly hair going whether you like the new Mark Zuckerberg or not he's more authentic he's more real you can relate to him that's why he does well that's why people follow more Zuckerberg than than Apple brand or there are many brands in Brazil where we we can see that there are I mean the owners of the brand are more followed are more engaged than the Brand's page right but also I see many many Brands doing content like new products promoted price new products promoted price and this not only doesn't look like a person but it looks like you are just interested in my money yeah and you're not adding any value it's hard to engage when you're just selling all the time what would you do is is creating a conversation is uh it's creating a conversation yes but provide value 90 plus% of the times think about how you can help people nine times and then sell once so out of 10 times you're selling once you're helping nine times cool like I was I was just at event at LinkedIn and someone's like why would someone open up my email we sell pain products like pills to get rid of pain I said well a pill can help re reduce the pain but it doesn't solve the root cause what was the root cause well there's a lot of things that could be the root cause it could be lifestyle it could be eating and they go on and on so I was like so why don't you send out emails and create marking material on how people can reduce their pain without medication and you can say medication is fine and we provide it but that should be the last resort the first Resort should be fixing the choices you're making in Life or adjusting the choices you're making in life so that way you don't have pain that way you don't need the medication if you take that approach and you help people then when you sell the medication and people need it not only are they going to look to your brand because they remember it but they're going to trust you I love the example I heard once that an elevator company was trying to communicate to their customers that actually elev elevators were made not to be used so we are here just for people that really need we are here for people that are disabled gold or they cannot go through the stairs but we should be using stairs and I found it really like wow an elevator company instead of making it a big noise about you need to have an elevator in your house they are saying no no no no no we're here for people that really need it but we believe that you should take stairs and this kind of honesty or uh being more authentic it connects differently right and I think those are the companies that are going to succeed the best in their marketing look at what you did to McDonald's and the name change this is authentic people could relate to it more it's putting a little less Marketing in that making it more real now does it have a limit because you also know that any prod has things that they don't like very much right even a water company say you know what we sell water but we have plenty of plastic bot models in the world that we don't know what to do with it any any company uh they have this I mean I need to choose what to say what not to say in the past they were saying only the perfect things only the but now you can also get the community involved you have a lot of plastic WS look we all know plastic is not the best for the environment as a water company we have other Alternatives glass but some people choose plastic so we make the plastic but we have all these bottles now we want to work with you the community to come up with ideal Solutions so then that way we're making the earth a better place everyone submit your ideas the best idea wins X dollar X prize we'll fund it whatever it may be you can do a lot of stuff to bring the community together involve them and use it to help generate more sales and revenue in the long run let's talk more more about communities then how how can a brand build a community like this without giving the impression that I'm just using you I'm using you to do the work I should be doing I I'm using you to to advertise my product how can you really build a group of people that are your friends and they represent you not because you're paying them or because you are threatening them but because they really want to do that yeah it comes down to authenticity if you're just authentic and people can relate it just makes it easier if they can't then it's hard it's I just I think marketing at this point there's just so much of it and people just shoving it down our throats the ones who are authentic and real just tend to do better sometimes people hate you for it but I think majority of the time you'll win do I think Mark Zuckerberg's new appearance is cool no but it's authentic and real and I can relate more to him being the way he is even though I don't care for his look I'm not trying to say that in a mean way but I relate to it much more than his more Rob robotic demeanor and look that he had in the past I have the impression that brands that talk to the younger generation they are making this movement first because the younger generation they relate more with authenticity than my generation is it correct uh we're seeing the older gener we're seeing the younger people move for the younger Generations quicker but the older Generations care about the authenticity the relationships uh the brand made in Brazil or made in America they actually do care about a lot of this stuff it's just we take it for granted because we're like oh we already have that market we've had it for ages we've marketed to them for ages it's easy it's not easy to go after that audience it's just that a lot of companies have had it because they've been marketing to them when they were much younger and they grew up with them throughout their corporations yes now let's move to another topic which is the hottest topic of the moment right AI what are you really using AI for new the biggest thing we use it for in marketing is something boring and ugly that no one really cares or talks about too much we don't we do use it for Content creation but not as the way most people think um the real way we use Ai and then it'll go into the content creation but the biggest way we use AI is data analytics there's over a hundred billion dollars of wasted spend on digital ads each and every single year it's a lot of money imagine having all your data in one simple place and having AI help analyze it in real time and give you feedback it's not always accurate but it gives you good feedback and then you go and adjust from there you can then make better marketing decisions have a better Roi and have way less wastage the other thing we use it for is content creation so we worked with uh we still work with them University of Technical Institute amazing university in the United States instead of having AI right content they have campuses all over the us we had AI do research on all the city around where they have campuses we then passed it to a human and then the human started creating their own content but the AI saved quite a bit of time right and those are two simple examples of using AI in today's world where most people think about what ad campaign can it create for me what you know image can it create for social instead of just thinking about what's boring and ugly that I can do to help me generate more income so so I have the impression that AI is being used first for efficiency for cost reduction for this dirty work that you mentioned but I also have the impression that the Second Step at least in marketing will be making things more personalized or more segmented more to the individual which AI will help for because there's too many people to personalize your campaigns especially if you're a big organization but what we're finding is is with AI a lot of big organizations first started using it to just help with content cost and automating mundane tasks to save money we did a test with the little bit more than 1. 8 million visitors with a third of the traffic the content was all written by humans a lot of Articles thousands of articles but with the third of the traffic we put written by AI at the top instead of the author bio at the top the content was still written by a human we just changed the author bio to say written by a and nothing else the rtime dropped by roughly a half wow people don't care for AI content as much as we think why because it lacks the emotions authenticity that human written content has you can try to fake it it's still not the same but is it temporary I mean are we going to get there maybe in three to five years maybe but I still think human content is going to be the most valuable and the reason I say that is let's go back in time let's think covid okay Mark Zuckerberg posted something literally the other day saying that the government pressured Facebook to censor some of the things when it related to co the government wanted a specific narrative I'm paraphrasing here I maybe putting a little bit words in their mouth but they wanted a specific story to be told and they didn't want certain things to appear right what were those things Zuckerberg did not provide context if you look look at Brazil forget the United States look at Brazil for a moment cuz we're here in Brazil during when Co first came everyone wanted the vaccine most majority of people wanted it you fast forward to today you can get booster shots at the pharmacy right yes most people don't even go to the pharmacy to take a booster shot if there was an audience of 100 people and I asked people to raise their hands who keeps getting booster shots maybe one or two would raise their hand and the rest don't but you have all these articles on Co what people perceive was important two three years ago is very different than today with Co and for that reason AI can use articles in the past to come up and generate something for today but how do you know those articles were true or false you don't it affects the quality of the output is happening today you look at a search and you search on Google a lot of the results are inaccurate not the majority majority are great but some are still inaccurate AI can't say I'm going to crawl these 10 articles but not this 11th one because it's inaccurate it doesn't know and what that causes is it causes a lot of misinformation when you're creating using AI to create new content and that's going to be hard for them to solve so I see you more excited about marketing becoming even more human than Tech by far we think that's where the opportunity lies right now doesn't mean you should ignore Tech doesn't mean you shouldn't use it it just means we think the opportunity lies in more humanizing marketing but it quotes lots of numbers here you quote you you quote numbers and data and you study right you're digging into the analysis of the things and at the same time you're saying I think marketing is going to be more human so uh is marketing both I think marketing is data and numbers but it's also creativity and I think data numbers can help guide there is some gut as well but humanizing data can help you make better informed decisions but you still need to humanize at the end of the day not everything is about numbers if people can't connect with you you're not going to do as well we think the biggest Moe in marketing is a brand what's the difference between Nike shoes and rebok not the quality anyone can make high quality shoes with enough time and you know resources but people still buy Michael Jordan shoes because of that Jumpman logo they don't even play basketball here in Brazil and they still buy them there's even a generation that didn't see him right yes and they still buy him and they waited in line and at the end of the day it's because it's of that brand you can't it's not easy to replicate that when you humanize and you connect with someone that's what really creates authenticity in the brand in the long run and that's why I think humanization is super important because it helps build Brands now many people ask me if to humanize a brand they need to find a person like Michael Jordan like a famous person like the owner of the business like creating an avatar or or you know how to humanize do you need to appear do you need to be the face of the company you don't need to be the face but you can do what Nike did Nike leveraged a lot of popular influencers to humanize their brand and make them more popular from you know uh Lebron James to Kobe Bryant to uh Michael Jordan these are all examples of faces and people Nike used I saw that uh in another event where we were both speaking uh you mentioned cases from Brazilian companies do you like do you have any case in Mind of a local company that you think that is doing a good job I remember you mentioning hazera or uh other brands you w to mention a a brand that's doing really well here in Brazil that we love is toos toos is a software company they have a lot of products like Rd station for example that they ended up acquiring and when you look at what they're doing with their marketing they really try to figure out the pain points people have and they try to solve it another one is I food if you look at I food it's not just hey how do we get more people to order through our app it's how do we make the experience better and they were telling me about a scenario where you can order through I food but because the roads go such a long way in some areas they're testing out drones because it would be more efficient to just deliver the products and that way people can get whatever food they want or whatever products they want delivered to really Delight The Experience now when they're thinking about that they're not thinking about okay what is my cost of my drone is it worth it in the long run sure they'll have to look at the economics but in the short run they're focusing on just delighting the customer and this is what makes the difference I believe so I F CMO was here by the way you were following here please take a moment to watch the other episode it was great awesome so uh I also heard that you were in this LinkedIn event today you posted a phrase saying that companies will invest more on podcasts than in blogs in the future can we talk more about it podcast for Brands yeah so they don't have to necessarily invest more it was more so what I was getting at is there's roughly one blog for every s 7.
8 people in this world there's roughly one podcast for every roughly 1,800 people there's just not that many podcasts there's roughly 4. 2 million podcasts the competition is isn't as high but on the flip side with blogs the competition is high it doesn't mean you shouldn't blog ideally you should do both but if you could only choose one I would start with podcasting and the reason I would start with podcasting is it's it's a wide open ocean it's not competitive and that'll change over time and it's a it's a long time that you have to hear a content and you are there being engaged with with an idea right with attention that's right I was talking to I was doing a webinar today with one of my team members Nikki uh Nikki lamb and and Nikki was like yeah my husband buys a lot of products based on whatever he hears from a podcast and I don't know Nikki's husband but I said Nikki I bet your husband has a college degree she's like yeah and I bet you I'm like I bet you he has a really good job and she's like yeah Salesforce did a survey a study and they found that most podcast listeners have a higher education and higher household income than blog readers there's a lot of money to be made from podcasting it's just a lot of people don't focus on it when they should but the wrong way of doing it is creating a podcast to publish pya right yes to scream out you you got to create a podcast that provides value the reason you do podcasting isn't so you can sell something you first do a podcast to help others and bring education to them I love this idea and then the rest is a side effect right if you help people so much and you educate them so much where they they've really seen a change in their life great maybe it'll generate some Revenue but first focus on helping versus selling I love the idea of helping people and serving people I really believe that marketing is not pushing a product for a person that doesn't need it or um charging a price that is not realistic or uh creating qualities of the product that doesn't exist marketing is about relieving a pen it's about uh serving it's about helping somebody to have something even if it is really small better in their lives yes and and people have marking wrong because they believe it's hey let me just disrupt someone grab their attention and get them to buy from me it doesn't work that way it's easier to help them solve their problems and be there uh when they're ready to buy from you you're there but you were there before they're ready to buy and you help them out in whatever ways you can so they're going to be more loyal to your brand cool what do you think about retail media so we heard a lot especially I mean in the retail movement in the NRF event or in in this area of expertise I see both Walmart and Amazon showing to the world that it is possible to have an additional Revenue by setting ads and then all the retails are trying to I don't know let me try to rent a space in my wall let me try to use my CRM let's launch a loyalty program it's working really well I was talking to someone who works at Coca-Cola and they saying it works exceptionally well but what we see is there's new kind of retail media for example you order open up the fridges with all the soft drinks you can see stuff in the window and advertisements and you can even see how much of each quantity they have before you open up the fridge it's kind of cool endcaps people are starting to advertise there as well more and more so look retail media is huge there's a lot of Revenue in it but again it goes back to helping before just trying to disrupt yes if retail media is seen just as an additional space where you can rent and make your logo appear there it's going to be just another it's going to be just another ad type that doesn't work as well we don't need ads we need help yes I like this phrase cool I also heard that you you mentioned many times that SEO is dead right I say SEO is people say SEO is dead but you know there's 8 . 5 billion searches on Google each and every single day so everyone says it's dead but yet 8.
