THAMIRYS NUNES (MINHA CRIANÇA TRANS) - PODPEOPLE #177

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Our guest today is a dedicated mother whose life was transformed by recognizing and embracing her child's gender identity, which led her on a journey of love and self-discovery. She has a degree in social communication and is the author of books on inclusion and diversity. She is also the founder and president of the NGO My Trans Child, which is dedicated to welcoming and educating families of trans children and adolescents. In our meeting today, we will talk about the experience and challenges faced when raising a trans child the importance of respecting gender

identities and the impact of your NGO on the lives of these families with you Tamires Nunes [Music] Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of pod people, a place where we meet to see and hear people People who Do People who happen People who inspire Our guest today is called Tamires Nunes and you will find her as @my child All good, my dear, all right Nice pleasure, thank you For the invitation that I want to give you Thank you because I've been popping you for a while since the beginning of the year and congratulations your Instagram

is very well done and it has emotion it has content It has Passion it has dedication and I think it deserves to be publicized and we have to share good things I met So let's go There, my dear, I wanted to start by talking a little about Tamires, person Tamires, who is Tamires before she was a mother, before anything, I think we needed therapy to answer that, right? Look, there's L, but I think we have Tamires before transition between her daughter and Tamires, then until 2019, Tamir was a right-wing woman, a woman, a closed woman,

very uncurious, who didn't know the meaning of the word Human Rights, who didn't understand anything about politics and who lived in a very closed world, But a very I considered myself happy, very happy, very calm, I had a perfect little life within what I designed, within what I sought, I had my friends, my work, but I lived in a bubble, even in a very closed bubble, I had contact with LGBT people in my life or at work. not in the s nothing nothing nothing nothing very Normative system a very designed little pattern my daughter was

born long work I stayed at home for the first three years that thing very well planned like this a desired child a desired child and prepared for that I prepared PR that then Tamires from 2019 Tamires from 2019 she starts to understand what LGBT is uhum and then she realizes she is extremely prejudiced extremely unprepared she starts to understand what rights are and what human rights are and she starts to understand the importance of politics in life, re-understanding my daughter's issue and fighting for her rights, I start to look at all minority groups in a

different way and position myself in the face of these issues differently, I understand the importance of politics and also Re-understand the need for big changes, hey, you are as if you are telling me something that I was like, I saw it from a single angle and suddenly I opened it and saw that the world was much bigger than I thought I opened my point of view and saw that the world is for everyone, there's space for everyone and there has to be respect for everyone, and I started to notice things that I didn't understand ,

issues that didn't cross my mind and I started to be more curious about other issues about the importance of respecting myself. I never talked about the importance of respect today, respect the importance of respect is a daily topic in my life, in my family, right, respect for everything , the environment, people who are different, right, the various issues that cross us and how it was Because you What are you saying, you've never dealt with anyone, LGBT, nothing, nothing, swear, I had few friends when I was in college, but very few, but I didn't have any

intimacy like that, to the point where you could hear a story, I'm going to look at it, talk like that, wow, What he's saying makes sense, I hadn't noticed that this can be painful for this person, For that person, you haven't had any experience like this, and my family is all straight Uh, there are no LGBT people, so I didn't identify this in my family, I didn't identify it in my family. my daughter's father's family when I was married to him, so it was a very Cis life, very standard and there was no relationship that

would make you question that, no, because we often question it, I'm talking like this because I had friends, friends and family. So , for me, this has always been a reality, you know, I've never been the first trans person I've met in my life is my daughter, that's it, and so it's not breaking a paradigm, it's breaking a paradigm, destroying everything I had as a foundation. So what I'm telling you is that I did a 180 exactly Thank God I'm grateful to my past because it brought me here but thank God you're not that person

anymore, that's how I say it guys, that's good that the world opened up It's good that I could learn It's good that I put myself in this place of deconstructing everything I took for granted, right, I come from a very Catholic upbringing Uhum And that was also a It Was something that affected there and within this process of understanding my daughter's gender condition and what my role was in all of this and how this story begins because like that, a child is always cute, right, like, like a puppy, if we are ah, the smell is

good, everything is good When did you start to come across your child and show a different way of being there within that family I think it has to start from the moment of my expectations so at 14 years old I decided on my son's name Ah you had already decided I'm going to be a mother of boys Oh you said that and my son will be called Bento uhum when I met my daughter's father and I turned to him I said look I want to have a son he said not a son I said look

just know that I I'm going to give you a son, he's going to be a man, he's going to be called Bento. That's going to be non-negotiable, we're not going to look for a name, but you had already decreed that you said it like that, no, I'm not fit to be the mother of a girl, how bold, I'm not delicate, I'm not a sweet person, I'm a very feminine person , but I'm not his person, he said, God won't give me a girl to raise because I won't know how to do that, you know, it's

much easier to have a boy, it's a lot, and then I didn't want that If my daughter went through issues of machismo, people said, it's much easier to have a son, so I, God likes me, will send me a son, that's it, when I got pregnant, I looked at him and said, how many children will there be before you give me my son? Man, you weren't that sure anymore at 14, you were, I'm going to have it and it's over, I said, look, understand that if there's a boy here, if there's a girl here, we'll

try again until she comes, he just wanted one, I said until I wanted to have a boy, okay? And then during pregnancy I find out it's a boy and when he's born the first thing I say is a vasectomy God forbid you touch me with love or get pregnant with a girl for the love of God so my I was so afraid of having a daughter who was a woman and I didn't want to have a second child so as not to have a woman, I understood, not in your head, I'm just going to have

a child. This is something that people are very judgmental about, they say that I have a trans daughter because I I wanted a girl, I said, people don't understand, I was terrified of having a girl, right, no, no, it wasn't In my head, so I was very fulfilled, I had my son in my first pregnancy, the son I wanted since I was 14 with the husband I I had chosen within the life that I had organized and I was very happy Uhum And then I decided to be a full-time mother so every Tuesday, Wednesday and

Thursday we had a playground group that was me and two other mothers who also didn't work They were all recent and they all had children of the same age Uhum And then I started to realize my son was 2 years and 3 months old and mine had a defect uhum What do you mean because their boys responded to stimuli in a way that mine didn't I replied Um so While they were giving the ball the boys were kicking mine wasn't kicking uhum she was giving it they were giving it a cart they were doing Vrum

mine wasn't doing Vrum I understand she was giving it to the male characters they liked mine wasn't interested uhum however everything that was feminine Well, I liked my boy a lot and I didn't like the others, I said something, okay, and there were nights crying in the sofa together with his father uhum we're wondering what's going on because you shared this With your husband Everyone noticed Everyone noticed that that boy didn't like anything that was typically masculine and was happy the child was happy seeking to be people said what was feminine if we say it,

no, this is a girl's case, the child was sad, you felt that way, and then to others it gave the perception of being an ungrateful child, but I gave it to Batman and he wasn't happy, but It's because he wanted Poli, I understand you gave him Batman, that's why he stayed, it's not because the child is ungrateful Uhum, but a child went from being an ungrateful spoiled child, but in reality it's because the child didn't want what we were offering, right Uhum And Then at two years and TR months more or less we looked for

a psychologist who I have to say had a wall full of diplomas uhum uh I said here here I'm sure she says no exactly but I only found out later look how sad and she she did several consultations just with the child, with me with the child with the child, with the father, with the child and with the sister who is the result of the father's first marriage, she had several consultations Ah, there was you stepdaughter, there was my stepdaughter And then she arrives at the end and says So, Look, dad, mom, your son doesn't

recognize the masculine universe, he doesn't see himself in the masculine universe, he doesn't identify this masculine universe, but the problem isn't in the child, the problem is in you, mom, it's 10 o'clock in the morning, you're wearing high heels and makeup what kind of boy's mother do you want to be, it's obvious that you're influencing him to like lipstick because of how much lipstick is on your face, father, working the way you work, how do you want this child to have a masculine reference, how do you you want him to learn to be a boy

if he doesn't see a boy at home then she blames us in a way it's your fault but imagine if every boy's mother wears lipstick all the boys don't that what he forgot is that we are a society in that most of the children are raised by matriarchal families with the voice of aunts, mothers or sisters and that and not all of these children question their gender or are unaware of the gender to which they were assigned, they are repelled in some way, anyway. We left there relieved because The problem wasn't in the child, the

problem was just that you changed your behavior, in quotation marks, it would solve it and then she Gave several indications to reinforce the masculine, right? I tried to become more masculine, so I stopped wearing dresses, I stopped wearing heels, I stopped wearing lipstick, I stopped, I cut my nails, I stopped wearing earrings, I cut my hair very short at the time. I became the mother of jeans and sneakers and a blouse and the father started coming back from work to spend a little time with the child so he could go back to work again, and

then everything that it was bita, you know, colorful, we take it out of the house and just put it on DC Marvel Heroes heroes heroes heroes Michael Jackson Beatles because it had to be something more masculine and then comes Pipoca the dog because there needed to be more influence of male hormones and pheromones within home so the call sign was also a dog he didn't fulfill his mission for 24 hours or 20 for 24 hours he's going to stay in my life for 16 years, understand, look at the popcorn scam because I've already fallen in

my life, it was Pipoca, understand, he didn't fulfill his mission for 24 hours but he couldn't carry out this mission, you have to defend Pipoca, neither you nor your husband exactly And then we start this insane question of reinforcing This male saying look, this is for a girl, this is for a boy, don't look, but this here and And then he asked to have contact with women's issues, we let him when he was with his sister, I understand, ah, with his sister, it's possible And then we started to experience a very intense issue of I

couldn't go to a clothing store anymore because he was going to throw himself for a dress, I couldn't go to a toy store anymore because he was going to throw himself for a doll, and he wouldn't go to a shoe store anymore, so we stopped going to the houses of friends who had daughters because he would We got there and he went to the brin to these girls' rooms and then we wouldn't be able to take him away and we were afraid that people would see that we didn't know how to raise a male child,

I understood that we had a defect, don't you, like that? defect is you definitely we failed and then I started to get tormented by this because the more masculine I became the less this child liked it so I remember at Christmas we gave him a Batman bike and he looked at it and said that but I just wanted a pompom rose And then I would pass by the ungrateful child and I would say and then I would say why didn't I give him the Pompom Rose ? I knew he wanted the Pompom Rose . started

to verbalize more I understood, so mom knows what 's sad, what's sad, love, it's sad that I wasn't born a girl Wow, that's true, right? And then I had two Marcos who were the two final straws for me, right, with 3 years 11 months and 15 days He looked at me and said, Mom, if I die today I could have a girl tomorrow wow 3 years then 11 months and 15 days 11 months 15 days and then what I wanted as a mother came into conflict, what The child wanted it was the first time I

understood that the child and I would have different demands for the rest of our lives and I would need to live this conflict for the rest of my life and then I looked at him and said, just don't die, if you die I'll die, the rest we'll find a way, that was the first time you said, no matter what happens, I'm not going to leave mine because this child could very soon start to want to Stop living so she can have the possibility of coming back, girl, girl. And then that day was the first time

that I even thought that the psychologist was wrong, I understood because every time I said it, what she was saying wasn't working, I cut my hair and it wasn't working, I stopped wearing makeup, he still wanted it. I use nail paint and I haven't painted mine in months, I said no, but she has a wall of diplomas, I'm a first-time mother, who am I around her that day, I told her, she did something wrong, is there something wrong? something that doesn't fit and then right after his birthday he asked for a party eh lol uhum

for a doll it's a unicorn party a unicorn party with four years old with four years old and I had a Mickey party uhum just me I was wrong, I said that a Mickey party in his head would be Minnie and Daisy and I had the party just for Mickey, just for Mickey and the buffet at the time was when you had the decorations and in the back there were the toys when he He comes in. He looks at me and says, Mom, where's Miney, Miney went on a trip, my love, and Daisy, Daisy Traveled

with Miney, Mom, it's not my party, he said, next time you invite them next time and he was sad and I knew I cheated, he understood and then he didn't go to the party, he spent the party at 4 o'clock sitting at the door of the steak, almost like waiting for me and the daisy to arrive or else and then I had 35 ramel kids full of brigadeiro Uhum And the only one child who made me be there and then I said, people, something is wrong, it's not because of them that this one has to

stay, this one is more important than them, if I have to lose the 35, but this child, this is my role as a mother Uhum And then I had a friend who had a toy store I called her I said for the love of God send me a doll here because if this child opens all these presents if she doesn't have a doll it will be very sad and then mandi's birthday is over the doll that day a friend sent me know that she was at the party and that she saw my pain that I

said people it's not possible I have something wrong and it's not possible that he's just gay because then everyone said he was going to be gay I said it's not possible for a Child to be gay, there's something and this friend of mine sent me a text in English talking about gender dysphoria in childhood and saying that from 24 months or years onwards this could start to be noticed by the child and because of the parents, this text was in English and it was about 24 months ago when you and your husband went looking for

it. And then I read that text with a dictionary in my hand because my English was terrible and it remains terrible to this day and at the end I said this is this this is the name I have a trans child And then I came to him that day and said this From today onwards you wear whatever you want, you play with whatever you want, sister's room won't be locked anymore and I will always love you. He looked at me and said, Mom, so I can wear a pompom skirt. da sis can and you saw

him happy in that M I saw him happy my son That son I dreamed of since I was 14 That son I had my son didn't die in a coffin my son died in a tutu skirt Uhmm he died with bows and ribbons and I can tell you that it hurts as much as I perfectly understand seeing the farewell image Of the affectionate figure of the name I had chosen and one day realizing that I would never be able to call that name again and seeing all the dreams come crashing down everything I knew right

and wrong and having to defend that a child knows what he feels to everyone because everyone said it but he doesn't know people he knows what he's feeling he knows it's hurting him Uhum And I'm just Protecting what is he feeling because this my true role was one of the hardest things I did in my life because I fought against him I didn't want the transition he wanted it and he had it and in those two moments I needed to understand who was going to win this battle If I didn't suffer, I would make my

child suffer or if my child would suffer and I would have to deal with it, I would be happy and I would have to deal with it, sorry, people have problems and I would have to deal with my suffering with my my sofa with your mourning because there was a mourning not for your child who was there being born and starting to be happy but for the son that you had planned since you were 14 years old, of everything I had dreamed of, right, and of the life of the life that is lost there because

I become a person who is validated with many friends , you know, respected by family members, I become the crazy mother uhum, uninvited from parties and looked at from the corner of my eye and fueled by madness, I lose my futility and it's hard to lose my futility because see when I decided Having just one child, everyone looked at me and said, whoever has one doesn't have any, mainly because it's a male child. Christmas will be spent with the mother-in-law. The coolest grandmother is the maternal grandmother. a promise to Our Lady so that he would

marry an Orphan woman I also believed because then Christmas would be at my house, it would only be mine, My God, the grandmother, but it would be cool, it would be me, because it would only be the mother-in-law, mother, would you? Being a mother-in-law, mother, I wouldn't have the problems that everyone told me, whoever has one doesn't have any, will lose to mother-in-law, it will be the other one, grandma said, I'll be the only one, grandma, the promise was for Saint also to be PR Our Lady, ours Ma'am, okay, Our Lady, find me an orphan,

you know, I'm going to welcome her, I'm going to love her, mother, what she wanted, that was Tamires' problem, mother of that boy Beloved, who had a life expectancy of 75 years, who was White, middle class, In Cerasa But that's all right ok this futility was stolen from me I understood this futility even a lightness you had a lightness to live Oh I'm going to pray there will be a daughter-in-law my big problem is where will Christmas be today my big problem is will there be Christmas I understand will the we arrive at one more

uhum we arrive but we arrive about what pains and when you because there is a change in the lightness of the Unbearable Lightness of Being You were almost a woman Unbearable Lightness of Being due to a density, you know, of ex because I think that the biggest challenge I think the biggest of all is how to defend my child from the world, because then you already started to suffer, from not having friends, from being the mother who is feeding crazy things like that, I imagine you can talking to people reported to the child protection council

reported more than 10 times already have a cupcake coffee with cupcake these days and get into the neighboring elevator I got out of the elevator then I had a bell sent to the school for them to expel us from the school so I went looking for others schools five schools deny enrollment one school makes me a proposal Look we even welcome trans children here I'm Talking about a 4 year old child at the time I understood but our legal department sent here a term that you have to sign that if they suffer There's transphobia here,

you won't sue the school, it's almost saying no, don't enroll exactly And then I started to get very angry, I started to get very angry, wait, and then I called large networks of LGBT Mothers in the social movement and no one knew how to talk about a 4-year-old child, but damn it I had a 4-year-old child who lived in that condition and no one knew how to tell me about my rights, no one knew how to explain anything to me and I also didn't know where to research And then I come to São Paulo with

my family from São Paulo in At the time I lived in Paraná, I come by car, my car breaks down and I have to return by bus, but in Paraná at that time it was not possible to put a social name on the ID of trans children only over 18 years old, despite being able to do so in the entire country in Paraná, the governor said No, you can't here, not here, only over 18um So I had a document for a boy and I had a girl next to me, I get on the bus station,

I'm going to catch the bus, the driver says no, but I want her document, I said, this is the girl, this document is of a boy I'm coming not a girl but she's a trans girl Then the driver turns to me and says like this So prove to me that she has a dick I don't believe it I said like that but then it's pedophilia then he said like that no here you don't boarding was 1 hour and 30 or so of shouting the police were called Social Assistance I was accused of kidnapping est kidnapping

that child because I couldn't prove that that child was my child from that document I understood after 1 hour and a half of shouting that one of the people on the bus felt sorry, he was a lawyer, he went there and defended me, I didn't know my rights, I didn't understand the law, I didn't know anything, I was just trying not to die so I could love that child, you know, you're just trying following the boat in a horrible depression, suffering horrible grief and I was there lost, we get in, the driver comes to my

seat with my daughter and says, if there's a traffic stop from the Federal Highway Police, I'll leave you, that freak on the road, because I don't I'm going to be arrested because of you, you freak said that in front of your Child, my daughter, that day I said it's over if no one did it here now I'm going to do it now I'm going to do it and then I was reading a book and inside that book there was the phrase otherwise I who and if not now when and I and I came crying I

swear there was this phrase but I that if not now now that perfect and then I arrive in the morning, right it was a night bus I arrive in the morning I tell her father I said so I'm coming in for activism and I'm going to fight for her rights he starts to say this but you weren't even an activist in the student movement you don't know what politics is you never knew what I said but it's okay I'll learn everything Don't worry I'll go learn everything but my daughter will have rights you can be

sure she will have a name social name on her ID we are going to do something I'm tired he said but I said we sell a car we move house I'm not going to work anymore I I'm going to fight for her, someone is going to do something because otherwise, how many times will I be accused of kidnapping because of her ? What Can I do, what was her reaction in this situation at the bus station, I don't think she understood what was happening? It all came down to her, I just gave her the cell

phone with a little video and at these times we have to be grateful for the hyper-focus screen of the screen there Screen Nation helped me at this moment, people, it's not that bad, yes, at a moment like that, right ? It was my turning point, I said, no, if no one is going to do it, now it needs to be done, and when you, for example, at that moment, she was 3 years, 11 months and 15 days old, that's not what you said, no, from now on you you're going to wear whatever clothes you want,

ok, ok, what was her reaction and you had to redo it, you had to go to the store for her to choose the clothes, things, how was that process, it was a process, it took 5 months, eh, eh, eh 3 years 11 months 15 days she tells me that she would rather die at 4 years old so in February then after her 4th birthday I tell her that she could wear whatever she wanted and it was a process The first thing she asked me for was a costume Frozen costume, I went there and bought the

Frozen costume Uh, then after a few days she asked for it But I needed normal clothes too, right ? nightgown then I went there so I went to the child's demand I understood I understood as she was requesting as she was requesting I didn't go and I made a layette and I touched the child and said no she was asking me I did and you were providing providing from the So I lost my son little by little because if I saw him during the day I would sometimes find him in his pajamas, then I would

lose him in his pajamas, then I would find him in his underwear, after a while he would wear his underwear and I would lose this son. right, and I went and I realized that a girl was coming, uh, right , and it was very difficult, but it was little by little, it was her demand, it was 5 months from the day I said, can you, then I started to explain what the trans people that there were trans children that it's okay to be a pipi girl but that was her demand and in her time she

never lost Her father and mother's respect until the day she arrives and she says mother if it's okay I will be a pipi girl from today onwards my name is Ágata she chose you I had never mentioned another name because I wanted the name Maria Cecília then I wanted Isa I wanted obe I was giving her names and she said no no No, no, and then she was already at a good therapist who worked with trans children, well, she asked this therapist for a list of names Uhum And she listens to the cat, the cat,

I understand It wasn't the cat, the cat, and then she decides on the cat and the psychologist calls me and says, look, she chose her name and now she's going to get up the courage to tell you and then it took a month and then she said so from today I'm a girl and my name is cat because I'm very beautiful and I like kittens, how beautiful and then everyone who asked her her name she said that cat because I'm very beautiful and I like kittens And then it was another grieving process because it's not

the A mother's right to choose her children's name and then once again I feel robbed of the futility of the Pleasure of lightness of Wow since I'm going to have a girl So at least let me choose her name and don't give me a similar name below which I never thought of, right, so there were processes and processes of when you think it's ok, you go there and suffer another blow and And then you recalculate the route all the time, right, it was, it was, it was a year, a year, this whole process. her transition

was 5 months in terms of adapting to what she wanted, right, until she arrived and said no, I'm just a girl, I understood if it's okay that I'm a pipi girl, then I'm a girl, that's accompanied by the psychologist everything with the psychiatrist And then it was a year before I started smiling again, I understood because I really went through such great grief that I thought I would never be happy again and I was being so invalidated by the people around me that I thought I I was always going to be the crazy mother of

the trans child uhum there came a point when people said so much that I was crazy that I was crazy that I was crazy that the school principal said to me you need to occupy your head better because that doesn't exist and that the neighbors and the family members that I went to my psychiatrist and said, Doctor, I need a Certificate, I need you to give me a certificate of mental health Because if you don't give it to me, I can't believe it anymore and I have he framed it, I understood, I needed a piece

of paper to make me convinced that what I was doing wasn't wrong uhum to keep me aware that I was just protecting my child even when everyone said that she didn't even have the right to feel and children feel it and they have that right for sure so it was then a year later I found myself on the sofa one day having the first laugh I said oh I think life will smile again I think I'll be happy again right you felt like a tsunami right it was all you know It's right, wrong, building and

blows, right, given by the people you love, so it's very funny when people today ask me, oh, how do you deal with haters, said people, Unknown hater, I don't care, the problem was when they were people I loved. people who lived in my house uhum, right people who I gave kisses and hugs saying that haters say to me today I understood that was the big problem or even saying worse things that hating you Without ever having seen you is even a right in quotation marks now Hating you, knowing you, hurts a lot, okay, and how

was the family structure because you mourned daily for a long time? I think it really depressed you, right? I think you held your depression in check because you had to take care of your daughter, but hey How was the structure of the family, the family wasn't just you , your husband had your stepdaughter, your mother had me, it's funny, right? uhum when she told me that she was just a girl uhum I just sent a message to the family guys here's the thing, from today onwards you have a granddaughter, a niece, her name is Ágata

uhum, everyone has the right to have as much time as you want But if you invite me, know that I have a daughter, I invite you to come to my house, know that I have a daughter, if no invitations come in those moments, I understand, it's okay, everyone has their own process with their own time, but I I just say that from now on there is no other option This is my family's only option I am the mother of a Girl who has sex her name is áa eh and then I posted this I sent

it to my parents to my parents to my brothers to her godparents just uhum and on social media I deleted all the photos of my son uhum I put a photo of her talking like this my daughter is the love of my life well those who felt interested came to talk to me those who didn't want to And then sometimes I walked down the street because Al said that but I thought you had a son, no, no, my daughter, my sister who has a son, I don't have one, I didn't have a daughter, I understand,

I just had to give explanations only to people I wanted, because otherwise it would be an eternal process of explaining and expose and keep justifying F explaining f exposing my family all the time It needed some time Uhum And I understood I think life is just unfair to the mother the mother doesn't have time ex I didn't have time no one gave me time to stop feeling You don't, you have to keep riding your bike, you know, you can't stop the bike because you had to watch, so I respected everyone's time and we started adapting,

getting organized, they came and asked, I said, there were some funny suggestions that Appeared in the middle. about that, a very dear person from my family came to me and said : you're a boy for two hours he'll remain a boy, I understand, so I got to know, I use irony a lot as a form of defense, right, I said it like that, so, okay, so when he gets married, we call my sister and say something like that, so, but There's a little secret every day at night you'll have to put on a little song

you're the morning boy because you won't wake up woman, okay And then I give this as a wedding gift to my daughter-in-law that's it then the person stopped I don't think it will work out, right? I said, I don't think so. Of course not. Then the suggestion came and people said Have you tried this? Have you tried that? Have you already tried? And I was tired of people not understanding that I was most interested in it not happening. I had already tried everything, including the dog, I understood everything, including Popcorn , Popcorn, and then came

the idea for the book Uhum, I said, I need to tell you all at once, Bru, put the book here for us, and in this book, I'll tell you what I I listened to what I tried, my doubts, my feelings to understand at the end that I have a girl and not a boy and that that child had the right to her feelings, right? And how to validate a child's feelings because we are a society that tell me that the child doesn't the child doesn't know the child doesn't know feel it, thank God, it's changing

a little, right, exactly in general, it's changing because the child has always been an object, take the child out of the room, the child doesn't hear, right, it's not good, you won't remember, today you're starting to have a little clarity as soon as the child feels You feel you're afraid and it's not that you don't cry, you swallow the tears, these things we 've heard for a long time , right? that love has no gender This book was independent how was it independent I wrote it in 40 days it was a vomit, right I vomited

this book And then I looked for some publishers who told me no with that cover no with that name no with that title, not with that Chapter, eh, and they didn't feel interested Uhum And then I took out a personal loan Uhum And even though he has all the certificates at the National Library, he has DCBN, everything, everything, I can't get him into a bookstore, everything, uhum, no, no, Ah so we're going to put it there in a safe place like no but it's a book to be a bestseller I'm saying it's a bestseller no

no no I said that boy And then I tried and I never managed to put it in a bookstore So if you guys are in touch with a bookstore you can recommend me and And then I create Instagram to try to sell the book uhum and This book was the result of you seeking knowledge, it wasn't something like that, just not this book, this book was just an outburst, it's just about everything that everything that was happening was happening to me, it was yours, your antidepressant, the pandemic started a year later, the pandemic started, I

say this, people, and then I laugh on the couch and I say, there are mothers in this pandemic, going through M, going through this, locked up. with this child asking to wear a dress without knowing that she 's not crazy I need to tell her that she's not crazy I understand and I need to tell Her that I discovered that it's possible to smile afterwards Uhum So the book comes from this perspective of trying Talk to other mothers, it's okay to feel what we feel, it's okay to feel the pain, it's okay to mourn, it's

okay to say I didn't want to have a trans child, uh, right, because it's in fact who wants this motherhood, she's a unwanted unwanted motherhood it is a motherhood that is not visited it is a silenced motherhood so no No one comes and says I want to have TR no one exactly Uhum And then comes the book it comes with this idea of ​​talking to other mothers is it ok And the My biggest surprise was when adult trans people started reading the book and said, I was able to forgive my mother because I didn't imagine

how much it hurt, I understood, I didn't imagine that my mother felt grief, I didn't imagine that my mother lost it. I was so desperate to free myself that I never stopped to think how much it hurt my mother. I understood, so for trans adults, it was a reconciliation, and for some who brought me like this, some who managed to understand that the mother mourned, yes, right? even though she accepted it Later but she had to, in quotes, bury a child Yes, bury dreams too, right? Exactly exactly And then the book came along, so it

was an account of everything that happened Yes, it is until the day she says her name to me exactly there the cat the cat I'm the cat the Cat right Then he finishes the book that day uhum is there You walk how did it go aaa Ágata is adapting at school how was that because for example being bullied she suffered suffered very much she had this perception and it's very funny because then the boys quickly stopped identifying her as a boy Uhum but the girls didn't consider her a girl I understood so she stayed in

Limbo she was nothing she wasn't even called by the boys anymore to playing ball, for example, but she wasn't called to play with dolls either and so I did what I could, one day I had a dolls' shower and I invited all the girls to bring their dolls so they could see my daughter as a girl and reinforce this bond between the girls, I saw the difficulties trying but she said so, daughter, how are you, there was one day when she turned to me and said, Mother, it's better than it already was, it's getting less

bad and then she and she had she had a lot of this perception and she brought, mother, there are people who don't understand She looked at me and said There are people who don't understand, but I like being like that, she said, daughter, it's ok, those who didn't understand or didn't understand, right, but she she suffered Of course, it is. this, this rejection, and then there were specific actions, right, she suffered specific bullying, but for me what hurt the most was when the following year, at another school, two years later, she was with her, there

was a Halloween party that a mother threw, she invited everyone the children and didn't invite her and then she came to her little friend and asked why her mother didn't invite me And then the little friend said that my mother doesn't like the type of child you are, but at home being trans was treated very naturally, everything is fine, there are no people who are tall, you are Trans uhum, there are people who are big nosed and you are Trans, so we were treated very naturally, she comes home crying and saying, Mom, what kind of

child am I? I hit anyone I don't curse you and she didn't she didn't care I understood TRANS And she cried what did I do right What kind of child am I exactly I didn't have the courage to tell her because for her that was she was she yes and that wasn't the PR reason she didn't go to the party uhum because then she kept asking me but I didn't hit anyone I didn't swear at anyone Uhum And then I just had the courage to tell her what kind of child her parents were, what kind

of child do they think who you are I don't know I know what type They are they are people who don't have love in their hearts who don't have Jesus in their hearts Because Jesus says that we have to love everyone that we have to get along with everyone excludes one child imagines what adult does this but the reality is that for many people my daughter is a threat to the family, right My family is a threat to their family because it shows that it can happen in any family is it a threat because that's

how I think that you see your child, she was revealing herself from a very early age, right? And very different from what the psychologist said, it wasn't because you put on lipstick or because your husband didn't play football, I don't know , there are so many men who don't play football, that's not the case. having a trans son or a trans daughter No, That's not what people have in their fiction that a trans person is the result of a dysfunctional family, they are the result of a mother with mental issues, they are the result of

a family who is a drug user from a godless family so when my trans child comes to a Catholic family who is straight at that time, right? It's all straight and round, it threatens their family because you can talk to them, it's in any family, it can happen in any family and that's the threat And that's why these places o What is the first thing we feel when we understand that we have a trans child? we have we are marginalized Uhum is trying to put us in the place of the Imaginary that they have Ah

then you must have some dysfunctionality you are crazy Ah so it was a lack of God you don't have it you know And then it is a perspective of trying to marginalize ours families to justify the children we have and in fact the children we have are because it is natural, my daughter is the result of respect, my daughter can be who she is since Childhood without having to suffer for a lifetime D is the result of respect and of love, the name of my family is love, not to suffer within family life, right, because

it's inevitable, as you said, the question why I wasn't invited is that I don't hit anyone, I don't hurt anyone, right? You see it's so that she didn't have that awareness, but then she learned the same thing the year before, she went to school and then we asked them not to tell anyone that she was a trans girl, she already had a name social and then finally the principal leaked this And then the children of those who were in the sixth grade, the children of a teacher who were in the sixth grade, cornered her against

the wall and said like this, here at this school the girl with the pipi gets beaten up if you come back tomorrow you will get beaten up and she never went back to that school, children of teachers, so we informed the board of directors of that school that she was a trans girl And we asked that this not be told to anyone so that she could enter the school as a girl she could exactly be accepted in her own way Exactly because the Trans person does not have to communicate, look Hi, I am a trans

person, we I just wanted our daughter to enter school like any child enters being who she is and they said no, they weren't going to tell anyone and finally the children of a teacher of a teacher knew and did this and cornered her against the wall and then I just shot her She didn't want to go to school, I didn't want to do anything, I just took her out of that school, so there were very difficult moments within the school environment, she remembers that, I don't remember, she was 5 years old, she doesn't remember, thanks

to or traumatic, people erased it, I think. that she had a lot of difficulty in the learning process uhum and as much as we identified that she has a certain cognitive rigidity some issues nothing gets out of my head that the ones that she suffered in the learning process within the school were not factors that made it difficult She has to learn, I have no doubt about that, I'm not saying that there isn't something, but it's not possible that this isn't a factor if it isn't a determining factor, it's a factor that added profoundly, that's

exactly it. So I think that this violence had an impact on Her in in many ways and when she started to have a little more life, it's not normal because she is the way she is, but like a life in which she managed to go to school and started to feel integrated, we made several attempts, right? in Curitiba she was in a good school but no one knew that she was a perfect transum so we had that fear, when will they find out what it's going to be like, so we lived this a lot and

it's very funny because it's a very fine line between protecting a child and hiding that child, I was definitely going to ask you this, I don't hide my daughter, I protect her, right? environments that are hers And then when I came to cuti to Campinas last year I put her in a school and I said do you want people to know that you are Trans she said no no and then I ask for confidentiality at the school and a term of commitment of secrecy with the board this is maintained but I was already a public

person how do you do it so I didn't visit this school only the father the father was the agent who went around this school Who went to the meetings who responded to the gala groups It's uhum eh from the perspective that the space was hers so she wasn't hiding it, I was protecting it in her space, for sure, right? And she understood that, yes, she understood that she didn't want to tell and she said so, mother is a secret, I said, daughter, you're not a secret you don't need to have a secret you can tell

it and then I worked with him on the issue of intimacy because children don't know what intimacy is, I didn't say intimacy is you telling someone something very personal to you but only to someone who matters so it's the same something you tell the size of your poop Then she laughed it's an intimacy you you tell that you pooped Round or that the poop had a shape like this or that the poop was Black to those who you are intimate to those who you know that will understand what you are saying telling about being trans

is also a matter of intimacy it is not a secret because secrets are sometimes wrong and you are not wrong in being trans But it is an intimate matter of yours you tell whoever you want because I I didn't want her to think it was wrong, I understand, but at the same time you wanted to spare her, I wanted Her to understand that it's not just what I started talking about, it's very complicated, she's very small, that's what we're talking about, these subtleties, that's what you said. the subtlety of protecting the subtlety of isolating is

all very subtle, exactly and learning to talk about this with the child, right? then explain what intimacy is PR child, so there are things, daughter, that we only tell those who we really like, the matter of you being trans you will only tell those who you really like you can tell in the environments that are yours you choose whether you will tell or not I will always tell you ask but remember that you're not obligated but you're not hiding it either because whoever hides it is making a mistake and you're not making a mistake You're

just keeping something for yourself that's yours And then we worked on it with her, she came into the school last year is in 2023 and she told her best friend this year that she was TRANS and how it was leaked, right oh my God, we have our hearts in our hands, right, but then it was her process because everyone said you she's going to expose you, it wasn't me, she was the one who wanted to tell her friend and then she had to deal With feelings, in addition to being exposed because her friend didn't keep

The Secret, right, but she understood it exactly because she thought that with that friend she had people We were very careful, we were very careful about how to tell her that everyone knew, I understood the first thing she said, hey, but no one changed with me, I said, but why don't you have to change? Ah, okay, and she was surprised, but no one changed. no one changed that, wow , that was very positive, it made my heart warm because you're talking about it now, right? to raise awareness to meet the demands of these parents because

sometimes the child doesn't know what she's talking about, she'll come home and talk like this, mother knew that Ágata is Trans uhum without even knowing what it's about And then tomorrow or he's going to give a religious sermon or a political sermon or he's going to say, imagine what he's going to do with that, he's going to think it's a joke and several Mothers at the meeting said this, oh, so-and-so told me But I thought it was a joke, I understood, I understood, So I understood the The big question I think they are the adults

were involved in the child's situation, so when we at the school realized that it had leaked, they called me and our first role was to call the parents But let's talk Sit here, let's have a conversation, let's talk, I don't want anyone to loosen it, it ended up leaking in one in one. larger part of the school we had some families who left the school from other grades families who went to question it became a buzz did you know that there is a trans girl in elementary school because the problem is being in elementary school

if it was in high school you would understand better So what? They called the director to find out which bathroom my daughter used, so there were some situations and we adjusted, I saw them, you know, I filter a lot, which I pass on to Ágata, almost nothing happened and she only dealt with the issue of her little friend, she only dealt with with the issue of her little friend, of the other issues, everything that happened, she was left with the issue of her little friend, only the little friend with whom she vented and then she

said, but mom, who knows, I told everyone in the room and then her first reaction was, but no one changed what She calmed down and then we found out That there were some lines and in some situations people use this against to offend in fights, but I think everything ended up being fine, we work very naturally with this at home, right? time she came last year she came home laughing and I said what happened mom the boys were saying that they are stronger than the girls and the girls were saying that they are stronger than

the boys what they don't know is that I'm stronger than everyone because I was once a boy and now I'm a girl Ah, she added up, she added up the strength of both of them literally, what they just don't know is that I'm stronger than everyone, all logic, right? It's childish logic. yes right so and we talk about the issue of Trinidad with a beauty with such positive power that she sees positive things Yes she saw it as a power I have the strength on both sides exactly she put it to you exactly and how

was the father's reaction that you had when the penny dropped and from now on, right But and the father each has a clear time, right, and I think that male environments They are very sexist and He had to deal with that, what What happened is that when I understood that it was time, he needed a little more time, so our agreement was Take as much time as you need, just don't interfere with what I'm doing with her Uhum So, for example, the first June party, he said to me I don't have courage to go with

her dressed as a girl knowing that the whole school will look and do it he said I don't have the courage I can't live this I said Ok just don't bother me let me go uhum stay at home we'll make up what you have to work you leave early we pretend you went to work and by the time we get back you're at home so he needed his time, right? Eh, OK, he had his time. I said, just let me follow because I need to follow, but he He understood that I needed to do it,

he questioned me several times. Did he say it, for the love of God, it doesn't come with it ? So, if it goes wrong, we'll see each other again, uhm, right? And sometimes I ask her, daughter, do you want to go back to being a boy, oh, mom, boys are disgusting, she 's at that stage, you know, boys are, yes, if one day you feel like you're not okay You let me know , of course, mom, but I'm a girl, stop it. You still do these checks, right, but from time to time, like, if this

crosses your mind, I want you to tell me, it's okay, right? you tell me I told PR her I will love you in every way if you turn into an avocado I will love you so it's all right if one day it crosses your mind that you no longer want to be a girl that you no longer understand yourself as a girl you tell me and we'll find out what you are uhum right she says mother I'm a girl this that that other and And then we experience discoveries and talk very funny about things that

I never imagined living with as a child, daughter with a female daughter, exactly, right? Just like you would be as a mother, you wouldn't be a mother and a mother of a trans child, right, because these days last year they were learning about LGBT at school and then she, 6:30 in the morning, I was taking her At school she turns to me and says, Mom, I'm gay. I looked at her, I said, Why, because I like boys, uhm, Ok, daughter, girls who like boys are straight, uh, gay, they are boys who like boys, mom, but

I have one. dick, you forgot her saying that to you, yes, I said it, daughter, I didn't forget that you have p, no, I never forgot that, but there's no problem because it's not the dick or the girl that will interfere with this when we talk about being gay. lpica bisexual daughter it's about who we like who we are and who we like you're a girl like mom isn't it so okay then if you're a girl like mom and then I make a point of reaffirming that she's a girl as much as I'm the same

because it's the fact and I think she needs that to look at herself and find herself within the family because otherwise it's easy for her to be isolated, for sure, if my mom likes boys, my mom is straight and if you like boys you're straight So it's ok Oh so it's ok and if I like girls you'll be a lesbian even though you have a dick even though you have a dick daughter because then I think they learned in their heads that dicks with dicks were boys and then they were gay and then she questioned

Okay, but what about me, I have a dick and I like boys As an adult, you know, there's this Confusion, you imagine it, right? Because one thing is identity, another thing is sexuality, another thing is sexuality, I see that a lot of adults have confusion about this, can you imagine a child has a lot of confusion because the biggest insult I receive on social media is that of a pedophile, a lot of it is the biggest complaints that I have ever received in the child protection council are pedophilia, abuse, mistreatment, but the most recurrent is

pedophilia people think that having a child have sex is allowing sexuality is allowing a sexual act and that's why I aberracion or abhor better by saying the word transsexual uhum because for us because it gives the connotation of sex understand sex of sexual act and we are a society that is not literate ex and that we are lazy so we easily make the connection between a transsexual sexual act then this mother is a pedophile ex I understand perfectly so a child cannot be transsexual because children don't have sex and then people don't understand why because

it's a question of identity, identity, that's why I say trans or transgender because then you take away the sexual connotation sexual issue perfect I agree perfect Exactly the same thing I think Is saying the word homosexual uhum when we talk about homosexual to those people who are not literate or to those people who come from a more prejudiced background we reinforce the stereotype that those people get into relationships purely out of libertinism through sexual acts out of sinful desire for sex, not when if it were just for sex we get together as a family and

then comes that whole talk about them not being family and then I prefer H affectionate It's definitely perfect because then I'm saying that the connection between those people is affection uhum exactly right And then I prefer transgender or trans because then I remove it because I think people still don't understand that gender identity is who the person feels that they are in fact and sexual orientation is another issue that in reality a more affective orientation is, right, because whoever you feel affection towards, attraction is different, desire, right, desire is and that they develop at different

times in life because a lot of people said for me Ah, but these issues of sexual orientation are only in adolescence with the arrival of hormones, she said, but I'm talking about identity, I'm not Talking about sexual orientation, ex 24 months of life, no, she never thought about your child when she started like that, she didn't I kept thinking oh I want to do it, that doesn't exist, not today they talk about likes they reserve because I say that children don't date that children can't that they can have friends that they like in a special

way so how can they not date them? they reserve such a boy It's reserved to date such a girl I understand you understand they created a reservation and loyalty system Look you don't reserve here you can't like such a boy because it 's reserved for so and so wonder how they can't date saying he's a boyfriend is everything reserved reserved perfect I've never seen this wonderful they create a system of their own to cheat us, right wonderful reservation reservation for the future Exactly because when you can date then you'll date so-and-so when you can like

it and you'll like it and that started a year ago until then there wasn't that line and it's a natural thing to explore, it's within the age range, it's ok That's cool, that hadn't touched me, and for example, when you brought the parents together at school, right? You Felt that the parents didn't have this notion of what gender identity is of what sexual or emotional orientation is, many did not have this perception and did not have the perception that ISO could be developed at different stages of life, we are still a very genital society Uhum

And very hypocritical, right, see if I reach out to everyone C genders and talk define me who you are uhum no person's gender will describe the genitalia potency color lubrication nothing nothing however we summarize trans people a genitalia I understood as if they were a walking genital organ the person who has sex the woman who has sex is a walking dick walking man having sex is a walking vagina no so we are a genital society that we think we can define the other by their genitals but not hypocritical enough because we don't define ourselves that

way exactly, right so we're going to have to deconstruct that little by little with affection with respect with knowledge and allowing others to want and making others reflect, right exactly if you are not, it is not defined by your genitals Why does my daughter have to be this Trans issue I think for a long time hey , we only saw adult trans people , right? family expulsion, expulsion from the house, exactly, I had cases of patients who, like, when they talked about sexuality that was different from the norm, it was like, the father ordered things

to be shaved and locked in a room, so I'm talking about something from 15 to 20 years ago like that. very recently, I wonder why we started, for example in Brazilian society, we have very well-known trans people and they have always been very successful on comedy shows, right? in certain spaces but it was as if they had never been children Exactly because people think that being trans is a decision the person decided exactly she chose this path she chose to be trans she decided as long as we are a society that thinks that the trans

person is a decision the trans child will be an aberration of course it will be the result of dysfunctional parents of a Crazy mother in the absence of God of Sin of political agenda uhum we need to review this story and understand that these people are not born at 18 that there is a childhood afterwards but that this childhood was often silenced is that today we have a process of much more responsible fathers, mothers and guardians who listen to the child who understand the feelings and who allow that person to live and exist is to

avoid suffering for a long time, right, if you talk to a lot of trans people, some trans people say oh, I knew I was who I was with four with five with six with seven with nine but I waited until I was 18 because otherwise I would be kicked out of the house I waited until and so on Because I thought my mother wasn't going to survive I waited, you understand, uhm, yes, the vast majority And then they develop a series of issues of anguish, depression, anxiety of es phorias, so if I can accommodate this

before I can show this I respect this reception beforehand and how much I'm avoiding suffering, right, how much I'm protecting this person and I think there are many Tamires mothers who I think are like that, it's that thing about protecting the child Ah, but I didn't Want to because I was afraid. I've heard this a lot Fear of rejection but I think I'm also very afraid of being rejected as a mother, yes, eh, there are two movements, right ? go talk to the family you will understand that they want a cure because they don't want

their son to suffer And then I arrive and say this but did you know that the first violence is suffered at home than not being loved by the mother and being rejected by the father or by the mother it is the first violence so you are so worried about the violence that the other may or may not do that you are not aware of the violence you are doing which is already violence if you don't let it exist you don't let it be used clothes that don't make the person feel respected in the way they

do or threatened as they did won't stay in that house, they'll go out on the street, right? So there's this movement of parents who would like to postpone this transition or avoid this transition because are afraid of what's going on out there and I think it's legitimate but we have to seek reflection and talk look but Here there is already one This is already violent, right? So let's stop thinking about the violence that we produce as parents as a family and what if If there's somewhere to go back, it's better, right? It can be chaos

outside, but if it's OK inside, we'll make it, we have a better chance, a much better chance. And then there are the families that end up expulsion from the family Or they end up committing violence because they are crossed by others issues, for example, due to religious dependence or financial dependence or crossing racial issues, economic issues, and then this person says this, but if I welcome my son, I will be expelled from the congregation, I will be expelled from religion, I will be I'm going to be expelled, I'm going to lose my job and there

are families who lose their jobs, they really lose their jobs, I'm going to lose my marriage and there are families who lose their marriages, many of them are very recurrent, hey, I'm going to, I live at my mother's house, where is my mother going to expel me ? I'm going to live with this child, I understand, so very, very little is said about the social debt that we have with TRANS people and where they are born, they are born into the family, I think that over time We are talking about the social debt that we

have with the black population with the original peoples, right , but we don't talk about where the debt with the trans population arises, in fact, it is that the majority of sex workers today are TRANS women and that a large proportion of more than 80% of these trans women are sex workers were kicked out of their homes between the ages of 11 and 13 Uhum And when I talk about home, I'm not saying that you're kicked out of your mother's house and your aunt takes you in or that the pastor or that the church will

give you a place to sleep or that the school will welcome you, they are expelled from that entire society, the entire family turns its back, religion turns its back, the school doesn't let them pee, we don't have a system of shelter that protects neither laws nor regulations that will regulate where this 11-year-old trans girl is expelled from home, does she go to a female or male shelter under what conditions does she go to these shelters, right? So the only place that guarantees that she doesn't die of hunger is inside of the family is in sexual

exploitation when she is kicked out of the house, not when she doesn't have a famli, so this is our social Diva, so that's Why when we pass by these women and we say Wow, why didn't she try because she she didn't have a family because she didn't have school because she didn't go to school and she doesn't have a family, sometimes it's our fault that the person who is on the family's side, the mother's side, arrives at church and says this friend, hey, my son wants to wear a skirt and once you say like that

oh, give it a pass , it's a sin, that's that, that, another one hits you, you say like that, OK, come here, let me give you a hug, uhum, what I missed the most in this whole process was a hug, that was someone telling me, you 're not wrong, I I questioned my mental sanity and I say if I didn't have a good psychiatrist and a good psychologist Maybe I would be one of those Mothers of family expulsion Definitely because it's difficult to hold back when the first complaint arrives at the guardianship council saying that

you are crazy and the complaint was that Ana focused on me being mistreating the child, I was forcing the child to be trans after I was being a pedophile, and I was in line with the child, and we need to understand that if today the trans population has a vulnerability, it arises when the we can't Welcome families PR families welcome us we don't welcome families in our work we don't welcome families in church we don't welcome families in our family so when an aunt arrives when a niece arrives saying that her son is the one

son or daughter, we are already judging, we are pointing the finger, then these families are unable to welcome their own children, the state is silent, right ? that evasion evasion is a very beautiful word they are expelled by a system that does not allow them to use the bathroom by a system that does not name them by a system in which they are bullied Teacher I pretended not to see, right the shelters are not prepared There are no regulations to welcome them and where do they go And then when they are already there after 10

15 years as professionals while exploited we try to reinsert them into work do you want to be attended to you will put them in your Clinic they are generally hired behind the scenes behind the scenes because nobody wants to see it so today, For example, if I go to a restaurant I see a trans person, I call the manager and I pay him a compliment uhum because I have to strengthen the one who is strengthening, that's certainly where our debt is born once and for all I get upset and there are people who complain, they

call the manager and say, you hired a transvestite, you hired a trans man, that's what serves me, no, I have to thank you, say, look, thank you, congratulations, I loved it. That's right. I'm going to come back but only because you have this function here for sure. So our debt comes out when we don't give space, when we don't welcome the family for the family to welcome and then when we don't give space for that person to be reinserted into society when we don't want her in the pharmacy we don't want her in the store

Ah okay Ah I'm not against it but if you arrive at a store and there's a trans saleswoman you wait the trans saleswoman is standing there and the other one who is gender is busy you wait to be attended to by the C gender then you tell me that you're not in this Social impact It's true, no you're saying it Funny I don't know if it's due to excess empathy I always did The opposite movement I wanted to be attended to by anyone Not that I wasn't chosen, yes, maybe even a vice of my profession

or I don't know, I've always been like that since I was a child, like that that which is thrown aside I was always around I became like that but I wasn't me I was I was I had always had a bit of excess empathy so for example the stray dog ​​so I am a person who since I I drive, I have food and food in my bag, so I get there, I don't know, I'm going from here to Tira Dentes, I get halfway to get some water, I see there's a stray dog, I'm going to

put the food in, I'm going to buy some water, I take the little pot to put the water in and but it's always been like this, I think this leaks out to people, but I understand, Maria, no, no, on the contrary, the minority because I've seen people say why are they going to give you food if tomorrow you're not here? OK, but what? I can unfortunately do family expulsion, it is still a reality, I think the majority still is, it is a very big reality and then people say What do you say about these parents?

Parents it's because they didn't have it. Sometimes they didn't have anything to hold on to and it's and it's too difficult to live through the transition of a child, for sure, for sure, or maybe they didn't even have any information, any information, they just had a conviction, ex, sometimes they're just between the their survival is exactly just a matter of surviving, I understand the environment that it is in because it could be that when those parents accept it, their children will lose their jobs, as you said, they will lose their jobs or they will lose

their religion or they will lose their family, we have a lot of them today in the NGO. we have more than 700 families of trans adolescent children from all over Brazil and 70 who are from abroad Brazilians who live abroad and we see these cases repeating themselves of having the first Christmas that no one in the family has, uhum, of having the birthday that no one shows up you understand And who wants to live this no one we are Vita oo maximum but there are times when we talk between this and Seeing a dead child

and you are talking about death the suicide rate among trans people well above the average yes 75%, if I'm not mistaken, 75% of young trans people tend to have suicidal ideation , but look how impressive these 75% are, 3% are young people with only three three parents , so when a mother comes to me saying that, I'm worried about What's going to happen out there, I'll tell her , see what you do in here, take it out of the 75 and put it in the TRS . distressing while I dreamed about the wedding and Christmas

today I can only dream that my daughter arrives alive I understand I don't know how many Christmases I will have with her her life expectancy is 35 uhm right that's what the data brings so I I can't do so much because of general violence as of possibility Generally trans women are murdered with cruelty and torture exactly, right? So there's this index of 35 because it's about this violence that they suffer and there are several ways to kill a person fuck, my daughter died a little bit on the day of the relincer party, you're dying psychologically,

emotionally, not at school, when you told anyone who has shit here, get beaten, don't come back So it's not Far from Me This fear of Violence every day I go out in the morning and I drop my daughter off at school and I say Is it going to be today I understand someone is going to say something she's going to come crying Is it going to be today that I'm at the mall someone is going to say shout that she's a freak is it today? that I'm going to be at mass and I'm going to

hear something, is it today that someone is going to hit my daughter, is that someone today that something is going to happen, then is it today that took away the futility of dreaming about marriage, I only dream that Not today, I understand, you are much more concerned about survival, I saw it with my daughter, but today I just have to fight to survive, survival is a transphobic society, which has the highest number of deaths of people murdered against trans people in the world, the highest number of registrations are in Brazil at all times. Of course,

we have countries that don't register, but within the countries that do register, China doesn't even give PR to know, right? years consecutively, the country that roasts trans people the most in the world is absurd And then you say it's okay to raise This child, it's okay to assume this anguish is to assume that you'll never live in peace again, that you'll be afraid to pee, people, I'm afraid when the my daughter pees uhm because she sometimes and I think this is wonderful she pees standing up man if I had a dick I would love to

do Well, you would love to, there are several situations , one goes behind a tree, the solution is resolved there, right ? I'm afraid of her I'm afraid that someone will notice that her feet are facing outward towards the inside. So I stand on the other side of the door with my feet in front of her feet. peeing is for the rest of her life I'm going to be afraid that my daughter will pee until she stops existing because it will never be just the act of being x until one day she has that level

of understanding No, it's not, but even with a level of understanding We know that many trans women, right, that the Trans population is forced into bathrooms and expelled from bathrooms, so I will always have I understood this is the level of our motherhood, this is our pain and then when people arrive on Instagram for us to attack me or to invalidate my daughter's existence and they say you chose you wanted it makes me want to talk like that man feel my pain If you only knew the fears I have how much I've cried to get

here to being able to smile again one day uhum, right, if you knew the things that I would like to be able to dream about again and I don't allow myself because there's no time to dream about it, I have other dream priorities that will guarantee at least its existence, then you Tell me something like this, it's very dishonorable with the whole process of pain of mourning of deconstruction of breaking family affections of so many things when they judge that we chose what we did, they don't judge the mother, they judge the father, mother, the

father always It's less, right, and I judge, but yours was also judged, right, not like that, at the beginning I was crazy and he was the poor guy who couldn't control the crazy person, I understood no complaint to the guardianship council, Even when we were married, it came in his name, it came only in mine. so he was seen he lacked the virility to control him he was the poor guy married to the crazy woman uhum the victim the victim is that's what sexist society does Cula will always be his mother and the man who

is involved AL he is not he may be involved because he agrees with this mother he is involved because he couldn't control this mother I understand perfectly Understood perfectly it's very difficult for a father to suffer the pressure that we suffer, not that it doesn't happen, people, but it's the grip on the mother, it's much more lower down like this, you know, much deeper, for sure, no, no, I have no doubt about that, now do you think this has to do with a lack of emp, even with hypocrisy, or with a lack of knowledge ,

or or there's a little bit of each thing, I think there's a little bit of every thing I think is a lack of knowledge and a lack of empathy to understand that and we have to respect that we don't have opinions about lives because opinions kill, so if I don't know I don't say it because I think when there are Lives at Stake, I don't there is, I understand, I know, I learned, or I don't know, I'll keep quiet, I think this Empathy is lacking But I also think there is a question of political and

social structuring about the existence of the trans body, see, we are a society that for a long time we have built that the trans body was a body for consumption S only marginal has no right to the soul has no right to study has no right to anything it is a body for sexual consumption it has to be kept away from hypocrites, right from hypocrites if I give this body a family If I say that he has a childhood, as a society I begin to have responsibilities towards this body, I begin to have responsibility for

family education and leisure religion, so it is a social and political orchestra of lack of interest in giving rights to a minority population If I recognize the trans child I have to review my position in relation to the trans adult in relation to the transvestite on the corner in relation to the trans man who is there and me and I while And then I'm talking about, right, I as a society I don't have that interest so it's much easier for me to say that the trans child doesn't there is more than me doing all the

work of social restructuring and dignity of the TRANS and transvestite woman who is there on the corner, I prefer That she stays there because there she is under my control, she is under my power there she is Mag over the subjudgment of several hypocrites exactly that we know this so I think there is the issue of hypocrisy of lack of empathy I think there is the issue of lack of knowledge but what is behind why lack of knowledge if we had a a political scenario and a social scenario that would be interested in talking about

this This would be being worked on and it is not interesting and what is the basis that it is not interesting to talk about trans children is to give life and dignity to all trans people, certainly because children have right to dignity is because every trans adult was a child, people, exactly what but us, but they want us to forget that, oh, no, there's no way it's not like men who rape women and talk like that, but my daughter and forget that every woman was a daughter is a daughter exactly Oh but my daughter but

every woman is a daughter exactly right so and every trans person had a childhood every trans person has a family o and we need to give these rights to trans people Recognize this right to family of affection Education of religion of love used my religion against me a lot uhm right the people who knew about my religion used it to attack me to offend me or to make me understand that my daughter was a mistake I said people my life, my daughter, is not a mistake, God doesn't make mistakes, she is not a mistake, she

is the most perfect thing in my life Uhum And everything is fine, now this solitary awareness is very difficult, right? It is, but it is a great exercise in spirituality not of religiosity but of spirituality You just said that God doesn't make a mistake, right, and in fact, right, If we all descend from a Divine energy We all have a function I was in a lot of conflict with my religion, right, and I thought and I reflected and people said Ah, you did something wrong, God is trying to punish you, Ah, God is wanting you

to learn and that's why he's making you suffer like this and then I stopped, I started thinking about my religion and I said this, people, but what God that I know is a God of love God that I know Mary that I know God that I know and a son is not a Punishment to say that my daughter is a punishment it hurts to say that my daughter is a punishment to me for some sin that I committed the God I know wouldn't do something like that and then I started to face the situation and

understand that I'm God's favorite uhum special children special mothers So God knew that I would go against everything or everyone to be able to love even when it hurts I understood even when there was nothing left, he trusted that I would know what to do, so I think I have a little more credit than God with God, I understood, so instead of thinking that my daughter is a punishment, I think the my daughter is a prize for me being a good person because I am a person he trusted would know how to love because if

I learned one thing in this whole process it is what Unconditional Love is We live relationships of interest we talk about the old man on the boat but we live relationships of interest I like you because you are an intelligent friend so when I want to have intelligent and cultured conversations I will look for you I like so-and-so because so-and-so is funny so when I get excited I want something funny I I'm going to look for So-and- So But what if So-and-So gets into a depression, you're going to look for So-and-So even when he's in

bed because he's your funny friend , right? This son does not meet this expectation and there is a quote from Viola Davis that she said our children are the extension of everything we don't want, everything we are not and even so we will have to love hard and I discovered In this process that there was nothing left I had nothing to connect me to that child uhum on the contrary that child killed the person I loved most that child made me be called crazy that child made my friends leave the house the family asked for

time that child was destroying my marriage that child made me, I don't know, invited to anything else that child made me cry and make me go into depression how do you love someone who kills the person you loved most This is unconditional love This is love unconditional is loving even when nothing is exactly even when there is only pain even if it only hurts love even if it hurt eee I was difficult to connect with her it was difficult I said that people like me I will learn to love her without thinking that I I'm

cheating on him uhum How do I, how do I love someone who is causing me so much pain and I cried about it because I got into questions I said like this I don't and I didn't want to look at her I understand she was 4 years old I said like this I don't want it there Today I don't want to play like a doll I don't want to because I wanted to play with cars I wanted to be playing with cars that's what I wanted So how do you learn to love that person who

made the neighbor get out of the elevator there wasn't anything not to love it was too much It was easier not to love, it was much easier not to love, much easier, right? I understand the challenge. You almost come to a conclusion, as she said, Mom, I have strength on both sides, almost like, well, God trusted me with a love of a size I never had. I could imagine exactly And then I learned what unconditional love is, it's love when nothing is left, nothing is left, it's all destroyed It's all over, there's only pain and

even then you say I'm going to continue feeling pain so that this person can be happy between me and her I choose her, it's true, perfect, perfect, and then I understand that I'm only going to feel this way for her, okay, I don't mean to, it hurts too much, okay, okay, okay, okay , God, okay, ahem, how perfect, your definition, how perfect, and in this NGO right, the name of the NGO is my trans cri child, today you said there are 700 families, right? What kind of work today do you say like this? Here I

identified that that mother also reached the point of Unconditional Love. We have a lot of work at the NGO. right, her name comes from my book, what happens I create Instagram, a mother starts to appear, another mother appears, I create a group on WhatsApp with 10, we become 700, what a thing And then we become Ah, what is this group called then? to leash people to remember what the group was, I used to put my trans child when we decided to formalize ourselves. Years later, I was acting alone in the militancy . many and we

make a vol and then my trans child's name was already starting to be heard on the networks, we said let's take advantage and follow the CL herd, otherwise you create and there are several different possibilities that we work with Families, right, so all families that come to us, we provide emotional support What is emotional support is doing what sometimes a therapist will never be able to do for this family is looking and talking like this, I understand you literally and I understand you, there is a weight in talking like this It's when the mother can

feel free and say, I didn't want to have a TRANS child and I said, I understand you Uh, it's when the mother says, I'm grieving and I said, you're not crazy, it's really a feeling of death, even the feeling that your child is dying because people sometimes don't understand what we are feeling and I understand you, it's power for healing, it's power for a lot of things, so and it's the emotional embrace that we do, but also the part of giving information Look, this is law, it's law, so we have several informative documents to pass

on to these families, you have a body of lawyers or volunteers, we are the ones who really do it, no, we study and do it, there is some, yes, but then Do you have a colleague, a lawyer friend? It's not right, right? It's not a consultancy, but it's one, you study and some professional says, Isn't that right? Within this process, here we create these informative documents, eh, so There are WhatsApp support groups where they can exchange with each other and talk about how they feel. And then the process of me licking you and healing your

wound, I heal mine and then we have a very beautiful cycle that We see the mother entering the NGO very broken inside the WhatsApp groups and she will consume . feeling the pain that is coming in broken and then after a while she leaves the group She will leave the on we have been through more than 2000 families have been through these groups we have 700 because then it doesn't become the big problem of life the thing life fell into place So everything is fine with this sa and she will come back and she will

go back to UnG when a problem happens they go back to look for there are those who stay for reasons of activism because they like it but there are those who don't like groups or who don't they don't like the militan issue that they entered, they experienced, they were welcomed, they were welcomed, but Life led the way And then other, much bigger problems arose and the fact that her son was trans is no longer a problem, a problem in life, right? And then she leaves, I think it's beautiful when She leaves, how cool, perfect, expert,

I learned to see that everything went well, she left because she's fine and she, if she needs to, she knows how to go back exactly, she knows where, she knows where to go back, so I don't care when they leave, everything's fine And then there's everything In this process, we have some volunteer psychologists to serve families with economic vulnerability or adolescent children, not because it is more difficult, but in terms of online service because we offer online service. So we have some professionals, we take courses, then we give lectures at the Public Defender's Office we

give lectures and companies ask us to speak to bring the agenda Uhum And we have a very strong part of political advocacy and the institutionalization of the agenda, you know, on an agenda of the agenda so I'm constantly in Brasília trying make a political articulation, but for example last year we held the first public hearing at the Inter-American Commission On Human Rights of the OAS of the Organization of American States and on trans children, never in 20 years of hearings had there been a specific hearing on TRANS children and we We did the first and

we denounced the Brazilian state for the lack of protection policies for trans children, treating the most vulnerable with their due vulnerabilities, right ? that they protect them Of course, and now, for example, I was in Geneva a month ago, it was the first time that an LGBTI or trans organization was at the Children's Committee in Geneva to talk about trans children, so we do this activism, we did it for the first time in the world the first joint effort to rectify the gender name of trans children and adolescents why Because the adult can do it

at the registry office, the trans child and adolescent has to do it in court Uhum And then there are judges who sometimes are not so prepared, the process of one from 2 to 3 years old is the one who puts the child and the family in a situation of victim violence, Revictimization and we rectify 106 on the same day, which is wonderful in all of Brazil, it is the first time in the world that there is a multitude of rectifications for children and adolescents, more in the 20 5 years ago we know uhum the age

is more or less so we do this fight of shouting eh Three years ago we were the opening act of the lgbti pride parade in São Paulo which is the biggest parade in the world so it's been three years since we catch every end of the parade people The parade is on Sunday on Monday I always receive a letter, that's right Look, you're being investigated, do you have another book Come on, we're here, it's a children's book to talk to children about transgenderism, the girl in The mirror is also an independent book, it's an independent

book, too, the girl everyone asks me if the girl in the mirror is Ágata's story. I'm not saying it's not Ágata's story, but she appears at the end of the book as a tribute she is because people talk like that but how do I talk to children about TRANS children and we need to naturalize the existence of trans people we need to start talking about these existences From childhood children need to know that there are different people including trans people So how do I say this at home in a natural way adapted in a way

a child can understand can manage the content So we have the story of the guy who looks in the mirror, I understand and then he gets very sad because he feels in his heart that he is an Nina Uhum And then he goes to talk to his mother and then there is a issue at school and how the school positions itself, so it's a book to talk to children, I thought a lot at school about being able to use this in conversation circles with the school but also to strengthen these teachers in how to deal

with these issues and for us to work with the child in a playful way, right? It's also important that you're happy with the experience you brought too, right, because you were learning, right, it was, we were learning, studying, studying, learning, living, experiencing, suffering, nendo , and he really helps children understand. sometimes brothers understand what's happening to their sister, you know, there's a process there or I've had families who bought it for this to be read at school in a circle Of friends, right, within a transition process that's happening So it's a book to talk about

with children that trans children exist that trans people exist in a light way without political ideologies without genital issues, it's just a question of I feel this way and the message of the book is if the other person feels happy in this way, it's up to us to want them to the other is happy, then we will welcome them, it doesn't hinder the other's happiness, exactly if we love the other, we want them to be happy, exactly and the sister, the sister, I give her better than all of us when we sat down to talk

to her and We thought there was going to be an issue, she said, thank God, you understood, right? And how old was she? 4 5 6 7 8, she was nine, she's 5 years older, she's C years older, and it was that in quotation marks and he naturalized a lot, he naturalized a lot, he became a little thing, so he didn't suffer, he didn't feel very good when we told him, look, maybe then you don't have a brother You have a sister, but we're going through the process, oh, thank God, you understood, right? because I

already realized a long time ago and the two started sharing Makeup and lipsticks, of course there was a little jealousy, right, that process of adaptation, everything, but hey, sister, thank God, it was a blessing, it was never an issue at home, how cool, how cool, how cool now we go to the pipinho reporter we have there What is the pipinho reporter Come on we have a community called sustainable human being which is a community basically of lay people there are people who are not who are not laymen but everyone likes knowledge so every time We

're going to call someone here and we'll say like this Look, I'm going to call Tamit and then we'll give them Instagram, okay? And they say this, you go there, observe everything and send us your questions So they send it and we ask like this, don't start following now, let it go to follow after the episode is on the air so these are people who sent these questions let's do it like that Let's go Let's go first Do you believe that trans adults have always shown signs since childhood or can this change throughout life it

is a process of self-knowledge very individual, right, sometimes that person in childhood felt uncomfortable with some issue or with some situation or with some Gender imposition but didn't know what that meant, knew exactly what it was or didn't know what that feeling was or why that discomfort comes and It needed a process of maturation of self-perception to understand what it meant, you know, to also understand the possibility of the trans experience because sometimes I hear from many young people who spoke like that and then I already had discomfort, I felt that something something was wrong

I knew how to name it and I didn't know how to name it when I saw it in a soap opera or when I saw it in a film or when I saw it in a book The person changed it and said oh that's what I am right so perfect eh I don't think all trans people already showed signs from childhood because sometimes the person didn't even know it in childhood but I think that yes, these discomforts can appear and most of the time, based on the reports we have from adult trans people, they have

already seen discomforts or questions since this childhood process. It's because it's such an identity thing that at the beginning the identity is being formed But there is a strangeness, yes, you know, that doesn't know how to be called Of course, because we Don't know how to name the child, we don't know the dress, it's because it's short, it's because until you identify that it's not the size of the dress, it's not the color of the dress which is not the fabric of the dress but is the fact that dressing is also a process and everyone

has a process there are those people who mature faster there are people who have a greater self-perception others who have less so It's a very individual process and it's also influenced by the family, sometimes that girl who doesn't feel comfortable with the dress, the family picks it up and she'll wear it and she won't feel any other discomfort until something else comes along, I understand. sometimes no, the family will impose that dress And then this discomfort will come faster, much more intense, we have, you know, cases and cases, so the family, how much the family

imposes these gender issues, right, or induces this gender issue more firmly or in a lighter way that the child can experience a greater process of experimentation will also influence this discomfort to appear stronger or less or even to become ill, right ? the difference between the social name and the corrected name in practice protection from my perspective protection Unfortunately today when you enter the social name, the social name and the Civil Registry name will appear, both names in the RG jun, so the social name will appear such a Civil Registry name as when you deliver

the document anywhere, be it in a cinema, on a trip, at a police stop, or at a school registration, or at any time this document is presented, we are an extremely transphobic society, compulsorily there . exposing your identity, you do not have the right to intimacy and choose whether or not in that environment you want to talk about your identity, you do not have the right to choose and you already have the possibility of engaging in an act of transphobia, a look, discrimination, one, you never you know who's going to see that document, you know

who's going to see that document, so the question of the social name is the way in which it is applied, it compulsorily exposes the person's gender identity, so it exposes this intimacy, this right to choose here in this environment, I'm going to Telling me That I'm trans here is not because I no longer feel safe here. That's not the case when you have a social name, when it is corrected, not when it is corrected, not because that name only comes because it is the civil registry name, then it goes by Ágata have the documents rectified

so today her Civil Registry name is Ágata and pon do point boy so anywhere that gives this document So today she chooses she will only say in an environment that she is Trans when she wants when she feels safe when she feels comfortable if she wanted, otherwise she won't talk, so it's the issue of protection because it's the line between hiding and protecting again, right, it's not that you 're hiding the person but you're protecting them from suffering compulsory violence from them or of the word trans arrives before the word perfect person is the issue

of the trans flag arriving before humanity we have a humanity so the trans flag arrives before the human being of that person's humanity and the rectification no I protect that person from arriving and when she wants to bring the agenda and when she wants to bring her identity, she will bring it in the way She feels most comfortable in whatever way she wants. It's very difficult, right? Rectification has a process to follow. Trans people over 18 can do it at the registry office the question is the cost of this And then for those people who

are more economically vulnerable, right, they are in a situation of marginalization, then they have more difficulty accessing it, but some states still do so in June which is lgbti pride month, they make a crowd of rectifications, so there is a possibility of access in this aspect, there is a window that opens that opens sometimes, right, in June, only in June, but uh , but it's more difficult for people with economic vulnerability for others just go to the registry office and do it over 18 years old over 18 years old under 18 years old it is

only through the courts but what happens the National Council of Justice does not regulate how these processes will happen they will happen in the family court in the civil court in the Children's Court in the registration court in all of them, he doesn't say which one will happen so you can open the case in the civil court and the civil court will tell the family, then the family will say that this is going to be a matter of registration, then the record Will become and saying that it's a children's court and one judge talks to

another, I understand, no one wants to get this hot potato, uhum, it also doesn't regulate which documents are necessary or how long this has to happen, so we have 3-year processes in court, we There are cases in which the judge asked for before and after photos because the judge needs to have access to these photos in a judicial rectification process, right, or asked the mother to write in her own handwriting so that there were witnesses, why, right? rape and it's revictimization [ Music] child protection, right, rectification is a process of protecting children, it should happen

quickly, quickly, in a simplified way with the documents that are necessary but in a simplified way, so it is very difficult for families to have access to this because we have an unprepared judicial system For these issues, this year we held the first collective effort to rectify children and adolescents in the world, there were 106 hearings in one day, it was beautiful in a human way and respectful of all documents, Following the strictness of the law. But bringing dignity means protecting these families, right? because if it can't become a very long process if it's not

the reason if the judge picks from one side to the other until he finds a court that accepts foster care then the judge will ask for this he will ask for that then see the child is already in foster care in specialized outpatient clinic because we have specialized outpatient clinics for children and adolescents who have sex, the child already has their own psychologist, but the majority of them end up participating in the outpatient clinic, right in the outpatient clinics, the majority of trans children and adolescents already have some psychological support, so the judge goes there

establishes a psychologist from the Court of Justice who has never talked about trans children who we don't know position who is not prepared to write the report, let's say, she sends out the sections so that I'm going to be revictimized and is responsible for being responsible for signing this this report, we don't say report because report is for illness, this perfect report, perfect report, this service report, Right ? is to violate this family, so there is a lack of CNJ regulation to make this process more accessible and agile in order to protect these children and

is there any movement like this within the CNJ because it reflects the Federal Supreme Court last year I filed a complaint right, the NGO filed a complaint with the CNJ, raising these issues, the lack of regulation and the lack of incorporation of the social name in some states, despite the AD since the Presidential Decree of President Dilma of 2016, which states that every TRANS person is a transvestite has the right to the social name and then we have three states in Brazil which are Paraná Santa Catarina and Rio de Janeiro that say that children should

not be given the presidency in the presidential decree the governor thinks he can I understand so we make this complaint Rio de Janeiro Also, Rio de Janeiro is only a party of 12 and Santa Catarina is only a party of 18, in Paraná now from 16, so we make this complaint to the CNJ about these social name processes not being included in these states and About the lack of regulation, CNJ carried out an internal ombudsman and passed it on to a judge and there is a positive report that the complaints are consistent, I understood this

report was delivered in April of last year by this person hired by the CNJ of the CNJ he goes in April of last year saying that it is consistent with what really is the current scenario and to this day we have nothing, nothing, right, perfect, to this day we have provoked the CNJ said this on other occasions and what are we going to do? is there a working group ? So, as a social movement stuck in the air, and as a social movement, we mobilize because they can discuss the sex of the Angels, I have

to guarantee the protection of these children. So we go there and carry out joint efforts and organize ourselves for this to do what they should be doing and now there is something interesting that you said that I thought was barbaric for you to tell your daughter and the day you think about being a boy tell me in the Same way that there is this process of doing this within the process there is on the contrary, the exact detransition exists, there is one, I don't even think it will happen, but it's true, there is a study

called transil, which is one of the most recent studies that followed 300 300 children who transitioned in childhood for more than 5 years and then it brings an indicator of 2.5% and it also shows that these detransitions, these 2.5%, many will be temporary, so the child is suffering pressure from religion or the child is in love, they are in the process of adolescence, they are very in love and the person says that either this person is already a trans teenager transitioning in childhood, a trans teenager who is not getting a job and then detransitions, so

within this 25% there is a great perspective of people who are going to make this temporary transition, whether for emotional family reasons or financial perfect that's what I wanted to know answered exquisitely next Bru What is the biggest bureaucratic barrier that people face to guarantee the rights of their trans children the recognition that they exist perfect Brazil doesn't talk to us Last year we had it in the commission inter-American human rights issue and where we denounce Brazil for the lack of public policies for trans children and adolescents and Brazil, Brazil's rapporteur, right, reading Brazil's notes,

he never mentions the term trans children, he says trans children and people because we defend children and trans people I understand and then the final report of the OAS in its final report the OAS says we expressly recognize the existence of trans children and adolescents their rights their rights to name and we recommend that Brazil do the same then I think the OAS report is from the OAS they say that they recognize this existence that they recommend that Brazil recognizes end So I think that today the biggest fight Ours is as a social movement as

families while, right, everything is saying that our children exist because the We're tired of people talking like that trans children don't exist trans children don't exist then the politician goes there and says trans children don't exist then the other one goes there and puts it out there trans children don't exist people I have a zebra at home that's what you are telling me Uhum I'm crazy again that's it so the biggest obstacle Today is that we don't have a democratic Brazilian state that recognizes the existence of trans children That's the starting point that's why I'm

fighting Today I need him to recognize and from this recognition then we will fight for rights because only those who exist who exist are perfect, my daughter has no rights because theoretically in light of the Brazilian state today she does not exist, she is in Limbo, right, she is in Limbo, exactly what you said perfect next ma Bru do you feel supported by the educational system in welcoming your child look today I think my daughter is very welcomed at school that's cool but I have a question like is she welcomed because she is my daughter

and they know If I make a quick scandal, the gunpowder spreads quickly or she is welcomed because they welcomed any TRANS child and what is your intuition? I think plan one is the most effective It's a good thing she's welcomed because she's my daughter, whatever. so it's like this I still ask questions like that today today we are welcomed today the school is very soloist whatever I need what I was but I always stay with that question they are being so attentive and soloist my daughter's questions because she is a TRANS girl and they understand

that for all trans children they are doing this because she is my daughter and they know that I am going to do a Story and I am going to play it on the canvas and it will appear on and it will become a bigger thing I understand yours doubt, but it's good to know that it's happening, okay, but what about the many others who aren't, no, no, certainly I was, you were talking about the organization of American states, OAS, Maria da Penha had to go to the OAS for the Maria da Penha Law to be

accepted Here in Brazil, so, it 's good that you went, we heard exactly the same thing, oh, one of the rapporteurs said to us, you're following the same path as Lei Maria da, exactly, today it's here, so you, I have hope, but that's how The report that we have within families is an environment of great terror, of great fear about the educational environment, uhm, of a lot of insecurity among unprepared professionals, right, and today I'm in a very comfortable situation. Good thing, what drives This comfortable situation, I don't know what it is. but but she's

an ex but it's not reality my daughter's reality can't be compared, she's in an extremely privileged privileged privileged reality, you know, we have principals who refused to give their names, we already had to file a lot of police reports against the school against the principal against Teacher against parents so the fight is still big see the fight is big for sure definitely next Bru have you ever had to deal with resistance from other Parents at your child's school yes I think I've already answered yes yes yes you've already answered a lot today too this is

more comfortable, today it's for us, in my reality, it's very comfortable, real, it's close Bru, how did you help your child feel more comfortable in expressing their gender identity, she was very young, right? Very So, she started bringing stories and I I was bringing truths, one of the first things she said. She said it like this, so when I explained that there were trans girls, but I never said that she was a trans girl, I kept throwing out information to see how she felt. One day, she came to me And He said, Mom, I already

know what happened to me, um, I was born a girl. A bad witch came, just like Rapunzel, and she released the prim pim powder and I turned into a boy. Now we have to find the good witch who will turn me into a contrary girl. And then you have to take this 4-year-old child and say, daughter, no, it's not like that, you were born a boy, but your heart says that you are a man, yes, and we started taking it out of the ludic world and bringing it out of the abstract, which was very difficult.

for her to bring it to us and we gave her a tangible idea of ​​what she could consider. In the middle of this, there was an episode where she took a pair of scissors and said so, so now, boy, I have to cut my pee and she almost cut the pee. I, for the love of God, don't have anything to do with pipi pepeca And then I went out with her walking down the street and said, all these girls you see are girls, they are you know if they have pipi or pepeca, no, then it's

not pipi pepeca and we did some naturalization work that it wasn't pipi, pepeca that what mattered was what she felt, so it was a little bit of diary work, A lot of conversation, but very playful. Because she was only 4 years old, now it's a conversation, but it's different, right, the approach now, but it was a little bit, I was definitely learning, I was also learning, I also didn't know how to do it, people, it was nothing. You certainly didn't know, right, you were learning next Bru, you You've already had to deal with online attacks

due to your daughter's transition a lot, even this year I left my house for a few days and we had a very well-known far-right politician who posted my my my profile on his Stories and in less time within an hour I had already had more than 200 attacks, but horrible attacks, I will rape you until you die, you you're going to die, we're going to kill you, we're going to arrest you, then they put prints of my house, close the window, we're coming, and then I turned to the Human Rights Defenders protection program about the

constant threat of death because I've already been suffering some waves for about 3 years , so I was already in the process of being enrolled in the Protection Program, right ? recognize this, then there's a whole process, right? And then it was an emergency situation, the attacks were very intense. And then one day, someone calls me and says something like that. Look, the Federal Police are having one, there are some people who are undercover in some terrorist groups, and so on. one of these neo-Nazi terrorist groups, I didn't even know there was this in Brazil,

and in one of these groups your name was requested from Prêmio Nossa and they will evaluate in audience whether they will accept hunting you or not, we recommend that you leave the house and that you go to a different place from your daughter while we will know their answer because we are there in the group We can do nothing we just have to observe their movements we are there to try to get other things but how are you in the Protection Program your name stays with us the time you appear we have to register we

have to register and we are contacting you and it is terrifying to know that somewhere while I was watching a newspaper there was someone asking for a group of people killing me is horrible, ISO, right? And then I left home, my daughter went to a place that no one knew about, And she didn't notice either, I also did, she went to a summer camp, a place that she didn't notice at all, and I went to a another place would be reserved until I received the call that the group had not been accepted, I understood my

threat, so I was theoretically safe because while there were political attacks on Instagram, we know that it would not be accepted, I had already done a risk analysis that they would try to pressure me more and that's their approach, right? They try to make you feel such emotional terrorism so that you stop on your own rather than them actually committing an act against your life, but when neo-Nazism terrorism entered, then that's another story for sure. and then I had to wait and and It was such a harrowing few days you stop and think like that

and then it was very difficult it was a very difficult process to know how to get back because I told my psychologist if I only think about my daughter my daughter needs a mother I don't I'll come back Uhum, I'll quit activism, I'll close this Instagram, I'll stop doing that, I'll work in a pharmacy Uhum And then I would stop and say something like this, but what is so-and-so going to do, but what about Betran, because you already have it, and who's going to continue that resolution there? No, no, and who's going to do this

from here and who will play this from here and who will stop and I said and then she said You need to close this account you will have to understand what will be heavier now is it the people or everything you believe you have to make a decision between the individual and the collective, right, and for me like that. In my perception of life, I think that God gave me a mission that is above my personal desires, which is above my private desires, which is to fight for these families and these children These teenagers are

supposed to fight for this issue, this goes above my daughter's individuality, what she needs, now I understand, it goes above my fear of dying and it's very funny when you reach that level and you stop being afraid of dying and you start praying for the type of death you're going to have, so I stopped praying that I wouldn't die during that period, right ? Tell me, something is very wrong and I'm praying for my death, so it was very difficult. It was a Very difficult few days, months, I went to recover . Ok, I'll go

back and I'll come back, well, it almost opened, I came back, I'll come back at the end of January, I'll come back at the end of January, but I'll come back questioning a lot I come back in a very big depression and fear and then wherever I went and people asked for a photo they said the same photo, the same person who is asking for a photo because they like me could be the same person who wants to shoot me could Same and then how do you go back to living without fear of dying all

the time What were you threatened with? I said man Wait, I'm going to keep living life If they have me Mat I'm going to keep walking because then If they want to kill me they're going to have to run after me if I stay still here it's easier for them to find me easy the target becomes easier the target will be moving they can do their exercise but it was difficult like that and it's very difficult to deal with it every time a wave comes of a lot of violence for me it's a huge effort

to stop and ask why I'm doing this, why do I do what I do today, why do I have this Instagram today, I don't have any income from Instagram, I don't monetize with him, I don't monetize with the book, I don't do it, I don't monetize with the onga, I don't monetize with anything, why do I do this, I do it because I believe, I understand that if I don't do it, I don't know who would do it, so I continue, it's a mission, it's next Bru What was the most exciting moment of this Journey

For you, I think we had many exciting moments, I think the first time we opened the São Paulo LGBT pride parade in São Paulo, it was to say that Vitória, it was very difficult to be there It was very costly financially, logistically, with us, without any support, collecting coins, passing them on to family members, to that neighbor that you haven't seen in 30 years, for the love of God, make a pix, ahem, and when we open that avenue with the banner saying that our children are now that we shout you trans is a right our

children need respect in the biggest lgbti parade in the world It was a very emotional moment every time we go to this parade it is a great emotion this year we were more embodied Without any financial assistance, we continue To pass hats But more and more families, younger and younger, shouting for themselves saying I exist, I 'm here, it's very exciting, the parade, the parade is very exciting, but then the rectification came, there were 106 and you see those families crying, see those teenagers coming out talking like that Thank you Eh now I have my

rights certified now no one goes I have my name my name there was a little boy Rafael he is 5 years old he turned two weeks later and he was being literate in both names so the school a school made him write both names in every Activity Then he turned to me and said, aunt, thank you, because now I'm going to have to write less in his head, that's how it was. He came to me and said, aunt, thank you, because now I'm going to write just one a very big exhibition, right, and so, I

think the collective effort was also one of the most beautiful moments we experienced, so all the stops were always very wonderful and the multirão I think I keep in my heart, always perfect, next Bru Tamires, can you explain What is the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation, you have already said, but let's say sexual orientation is for whom or For whom I feel emotional, emotional, erotic desire, right, generally among people with a penis, this has to appear between 11 and 13 years of age in people with a vulva, this It has to appear between

the ages of 9 and 13, then it starts to develop with the arrival of hormones, right? or sexual, anyway, with that profile of a person with those profiles, right with those profiles, gender identity is who I am, how I want to be seen, how I want to be recognized within what society stipulates as feminine and masculine, because that standard of what is feminine and masculine is the society that has been built over many decades and has been remodeling and reconstructing more and more what it means to be feminine and what it means to be masculine

a few decades ago feminine was not exactly considered, right, a woman in pants was not feminine today we wear pants and very well Thank you, we are very feminine, right? So this standard of what is feminine and masculine is like a social construction and the person has this perception of what is feminine And masculine and they say ok I already understand that this is feminine than masculine I feel better here I understand I want to fulfill these roles I agree with this narrative this which is represented by the feminine represents me And this is how

I want you to recognize me this is how I recognize myself I want you to recognize me too this process can appear from 24 months of life or throughout life as We've already talked here 24, right, perfect next Bru, how do you deal with the prejudice and misinformation that still exists about TRANS children and what would people who still have this type of prejudice, which is the majority, say? Look, I try to deal with it in a good way. Well, it's true, I'm in debauchery, I try to be sporty, except when it hits my daughter,

if it hits my daughter, then I turn into a lioness, even I get angry, but I try to deal with it well, now, how would I, what, what would I say to people? Brazil is the third largest country in the world to have a penile potion for cancer reasons, everyone has an amputation, even this month, amputation, amputation for cancer reasons, everyone who is watching us here is either a man Or has a man in the family, a brother, an uncle, father a nephew and then I ask if this brother uncle father and nephew has God

forbid cancer and has to amputate he becomes a woman no then if we are assuming that it is not your uncle's dick, your father's dick, your grandson's son's nephew who defines who he is as a man because it's my daughter's dick that has to define who she is that's all I say to people think about it perfect and it's really a third country look at the imputation of is and isn't It's not, so if we don't define our body by genitalia, if we don't define it, then a woman who has a total mastectomy because of

cancer, she stops being a woman, no, it's not our body that defines who we are, right? our mind is what we feel is Our perception so it is Our identity is our identity so it is a totally different process so do this reflection Oops but if my father lost his dick my father would become a woman no then there are men without dicks there are men without dicks Oops, soon I recognize the trans male identity, trans men uhum, right, and we're doing this exercise, trying to bring a little bit To our reality, truth, perfect, next,

Bruh, we arrived at the moment, pipinho, which is the pipinho, this brain, Cute little, friendly mascot of ours and who he only listens to good content so he stays here listening while we're talking he's there on his headphone he sends me some words here that now that moment when I say the word whatever comes into your mind you respond it doesn't have to be anything complex it's just a ping-pong a ping-pong Zinho First Unconditional Love two resilience feeling pain and not giving up perfect three acceptance it is optional but it is very specific because I

have to know how to recognize what I have no right to accept or not four complete the phrase being a mother is resisting and believing five happiness is being able to smile and dream about tomorrow six if you could choose a superpower what would it be and why power of information to make people more cultured to be able to spread information you know how to make information gunpowder virus a virus everyone receives this information that I think the Information about the pillars of violence perfect seven life purpose trans children eight prejudice hurts according to my

daughter it's a pain that starts in the belly goes up to the throat and makes me cry She said this for you, you said it in the classroom and the teacher told me The teacher asked all the students What prejudice was and only my daughter knew how to say it, she got up and said prejudice is a pain that starts here in my belly, goes up to my throat and makes me it makes you cry but I don't know what is perfect not perfect discretion anguish creates anguish creates anxiety raising a trans child a trans

person in a transphobic society and not being able to control the violence of tomorrow family is where love is where respect is a solid foundation where there is dialogue and 10 a sentence one thought it could be yours it could be someone else's I think I believe our children are the extension of everything we are not, everything we don't want, everything we don't plan and even so we have to find a way to love them to build this relationship that belongs to viola Davis Viola Davis, perfect my dear, I really wanted to thank you, thank

you very much for your teachings, thank you very much, and how do you bring empathy to us, so I heard you speak there, we can put ourselves in your place, of course, We don't have a place to speak But a little bit of empathy makes us able to imagine things, and there's no way to make us the same as someone else, but congratulations on your mother because that was the greatest lesson in unconditional love I've ever seen. Unconditional, I really wanted to give you a little gift This is a little bag, an ecobag, ok, it's

ecological, here's a little notebook for you to put all your dreams in, you know it's going to be honestly stolen by my daughter, right? It's honestly going to steal it, I'm sure because of the design and the colors, I won't even be able to get it to my office with it. There's a problem, it could be Ágata's here. A little mug for when you have a cup of tea, a cup of coffee or Ágata takes it, remember us back here, we have it. inspire you can kite I went but it's not over we have it

here oh I got mine my gift you like it I'm sure it's here with dedication thank you very much I'll read it with great affection I'm even going to go deeper into this feeling I wanted to give you happiness I wanted to give you the bullying that after everything you said, it will have to be updated within this issue of gender identity, I will have to update this book and restless minds, we ended up discovering that we are ADHD, because guys, I will owe you this book that will be released next month, which is a

time for me, which is 10 minutes Mental self-care diary, mental care, right, I think we need it to be better people, it's in November, it's in PR, I'll be back I'll be back And then we'll win, we'll send it to all our guests who had it here at the pop pipo, they'll receive it, there's no doubt about it because you also made us reflect a lot, so if we're talking here about a time for me, a time for We need to reflect on everything to be a real human being, right? Now I would like you

to look at that camera and give your message, where do you find it, what do you have to put whatever you want, now it's all yours? Look at me well if you liked this conversation today if it moved you in any way my Instagram is @my child trr I say that I am an influencer with a cause There is a lot of information for you to read and improve yourself if you have a child or teenager with gender issues or who says that they don't want to be the opposite sex of the opposite gender identity

and are feeling alone, look for us @mc or also in my direct you don't need to go through this alone we are together and we say here that no one lets go Nobody's mother is, we're still together, that's it, people, our sons and daughters exist and we're not going back into the closet with them, darlings, we're finishing up the pipo powder episode, today it was with this wonderful woman, Tamires Nunes, best known like @ my trans child if you didn't know If you know, you know because it is lack or ignorance that prevents us from

evolving as human beings and there is a lot of content so that you can become a much better human being if you are not subscribed here on the channel, subscribe if you think this content can be shared with more people, Share, don't forget, every time you subscribe, you activate the Bell, everything new comes to you first hand, thank you very much and see you in the next pod people m