Religious Liberty & the State ~ Michael Davies

Your eminence Reverend father's ladies and gentlemen Thomas must submit I was somewhat him embarrassed think if my wife had heard that she'd have echoed what Winston Churchill once said about Clement Attlee I don't suppose many people here have ever heard of Clement Attlee he was the first Labour Prime Minister of Britain after the war and Churchill didn't like him at all and such someone said well Winston you must Admit he's got some good points for instance Clements a very modest man and mr. Churchill said he has a lot to be modest about well I have

to confess before I begin and I'm not a vet akin to Catholic hersa and I was very very pleased to hear a father Perry CONUS this morning mention a quotation I'd never heard the one from Flannery O'Connor which is when the age pushes you you must push back harder because the main point I hope of the talk I'm Going to give you this afternoon is that the end you'll start to push pushing back now the title of the talk is religious liberty in his secular state but I think would be more accurate to say what

I'm going to talk about is the the duties of a Catholic to Christ the king in a secular state in other words how to use your religious liberty that you've been accorded to you to uphold the kingdom of Christ well to start off with that I'll give a few definitions During my talk you see a big difference between myself and dr. jaws I'm just a very humble primary school teacher teaching 11-year olds whereas he's a very intellectual university teacher and if you had taught 11-year olds as I've done for 30 years the first thing you

pursue is none of them are listening to you and the second thing you presume is if they are listening to you they're they haven't understood a word you've been talking About so when I so I hope you won't find unfill that I'm talking down to you if when I come to something like the state I define what the state means if I talk about a right I explain what a right means it's a unfortunate habit you get into after years and years of teaching 11 year olds my wife gets really annoyed about it she's I

keep speaking to her as if she was need 11 year old because you tell my might I noticed the same fault With my father who was also a primary teacher for whom he was one for about 40 years you start speaking very very slowly to people and then asking them if they understood what you said and in repeat then repeating it so any well off we go about the state man man is a social being which means of course that he can't live his life in isolation he's dependent upon and must relate to other individuals

and social groups these range from his immediate family to The highest politically structured community of all the state so that's what the state is the highest politically structured community of all every state is composed of two elements the authority in the multitude that is those who govern and those who are governed so other like being married if you have a wife who governs and a husband who is governed but now man has a two-fold purpose in life the first is to earn his Title of eternal happiness in heaven and the second is to attain a

measure of temporal happiness consistent with this goal we can't seek for any form of happiness on earth it isn't consistent with the goal of gaining our eternal happiness the prime concern of the state is with a common good of its citizens and its immediate object being the second of the two goals that I've just mentioned the temporal well-being of its citizens but the duty of the state to Work for the common good means that it cannot dissociate itself from the greatest and ultimate good of every citizen his eternal destiny the teaching of the Pope's on

this question has been consistent and unequivocal the church and state should be united and should cooperate in promoting what will assist man in achieving his ultimate and in repressing what will frustrate it in his encyclical via mentor knows Pope's and Pius the tenth condemned the Principle of the separation of church and state as an absolutely false and pernicious thesis the corpus of people teaching on on church and state was expressed precisely by Monsignor Johnny Ryan in his book Catholic principles in politics which was published in New York in 1940 Monsignor Ryan wrote this if there

is only one true religion and if it's possession is the most important good in life for States as well as individuals then the public profession Protection and promotion of this religion and the legal prohibition of all direct assaults upon it becomes one of the most obvious and fundamental duties of the state for it is a business of the state to safeguard and promote human welfare in all departments of life I just like to repeat that last sentence it is the business of the state to safeguard and promote human welfare in all departments of life many

American Catholics at every level in the church Made no secret of their disagreement with papal teaching on this matter and considered that the American experience of the separation of church and state proved that such a separation could not simply be acceptable but actually beneficent to the church they were severely rebuked by pope leo xiii in his encyclical long king rossion ii which was sent to the Archbishop's and bishops of the USA in january 1895 i can't recollect any commemorative celebrations Being organized in the United States for its centenary last year Pope Pope Leo wrote for

the church amongst you and opposed by the Constitution govern government of your nation fettered by no hostile legislation protected against violence by the common laws and impartiality of the tribunals is free to live an act without hindrance yet thorough this is true it would be very erroneous to draw the conclusion that in America is to be sought the type of the Most desirable status of the church or that it would be universally lawful or expedient for state in church to be as in America discovered and divorced it is alas almost universally the case that throughout

the world today even in nominally Catholic countries the church and state are de severed and divorced all those father Harrison pointed out to this morning there still some states that have a Catholic Constitution most Catholics today then have to live out Their lives in secular states which to all intents and purposes Amin's anti-christian states and so we should be considering not the way things should be but the way things are so we're considering not in an ideal situation where the church and state are united but in a state like the United States where they look

most certainly or not now the fundamental right claimed by the church in a secular state like the USA is complete religious liberty to pursue Its divinely mandated an exclusive mission of preaching the gospel to all men and providing its members with a means of sanctification necessary to live in accordance with that teaching the church quite rightly insists that it shall be fettered by no hostile legislation that it shall be protected against violence by the common laws and the impartiality of the tribunals and shall be free to live an act without hindrance is this all that

the church Asks for in the name of religious liberty in a country such as the United States alas in practice it is few if any American bishops all British bishops or French bishops or German bishops Australian bishops would go beyond asking for the fundamental freedom which the state Accords to all religions but by adopting this minimalistic approach they are neglecting the fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church namely that Jesus Christ is king the rule of Our Lord extends not merely to members of the church as most Catholics would imagine today but to all men both

as individuals and group together in a corporate body as a state no state can claim to be exempt from the kingship of Christ simply by declaring itself to be secular and in a secular state the church is the religious liberty which is quite rightly came through itself to campaign vigorously militantly for the laws of The state to conform to the norm required by the kingship of Christ Catholics who are hesitant in this respect simply do not understand the fundamental principles of the religion they profess to uphold if we truly believe that God who created the

universe became incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ then Christ is indeed the king of all mankind even of those individuals and states which refused to acknowledge his rule in his encyclical Adam sacrum of the 25th of May 1899 Pope Leo the 12th sized ear the thirteenth thought his empire includes not only Catholic nations not only baptized persons who though have right belonging to the church have been led astray by error or have been cut off from her by sysm but also all those who are outside the Christian faith so that truly the whole of

mankind is subject to the power of Jesus Christ commenting on this passage in his Encyclical on the kingship of Christ Christ premise published in 1925 Pope Pius tea-length insisted that nor is there any difference in this matter between the individual the family or the state for all men whether individually or collectively are under the Dominion of Christ in him is the salvation of the individual in him is the salvation of society Pope Leo gave a dramatic warning of the inevitable and disastrous consequences which must following states Which were governed as if God did not exist

what we said at the beginning of our pontificate concerning the decline of public authority and the lack of respect for the same is equally true at the present day with God and Jesus Christ we said excluded from political life with authority derived not from God but from man the very basis of that authority is being taken away because the chief reason of a distinction between ruler and subject has been Eliminated the result is that society is tottering to its fall because it no longer has a secure and solid foundation the prophetic nature of this great

Pope's warning has been made clear throughout the entire Western world today not least in english-speaking countries the Dominion of Christ has been rejected and society has indeed tottered and fallen to the detriment of all its citizens pope pius xi could not possibly have envisaged That before the end of the century divorce contraception abortion legalized sodomy and pornography would be taken for granted in almost every ostensibly christian state as normal and acceptable features of everyday life the crucial phrase in the quotation from pope pius xi is his reference to the heresy that authority is derived not

from God but from man this is the greatest and most insidious heresy of our times but one that is accepted where authority in the State is concerned even by relatively Orthodox Catholics if asked where those who govern their country derive their authority almost every english-speaking Catholic would reply from the people they believe that as legislators are elected by the people they govern in the name of the people and as delegates of the people nothing could be more false this is the fundamental error of the Masonic inspired French Revolution and error imposed with a specific objective

Of tearing God down from his throne and replacing him with man an error which has since spread throughout the world and is taken for granted today by almost every citizen of every country if legislators do not derive their authority from the people who elect them then where does it originate our Lord tells us himself in Matthew 28 verses 18 to 20 and Jesus spoke to them saying all power is given to me in heaven and in earth Going there for teaching all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and

of the Holy Ghost teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you and behold I am with you all days even unto the consummation of the world could anything be more clear God is the source of all authority authority in the family authority in the church and authority in the state When Pilate informed our Lord that he possessed the authority to crucify or released him our Lord replied though ships have no power against me unless it was given to thee from above those invested with authority in the state are obliged to govern not

as delegates of the people but as legates of God the theory that the people are the ultimate source of authority has given rise to that concept of democracy condemned consistently and Unequivocally by the Pope's the church is not opposed to democracy in the sense that legislators are elected by a ballot based on universal suffrage what the church cannot accept is that once elected legislators govern as delegates of the people and have a mandate to legislate in accordance with the will of the majority this evil concept destroys the basis of any objective standards of morality abortion

was considered a crime and a few decades ago throughout that All the english-speaking countries in the world now it is considered to represent a woman's right to choose because the majority of citizens see fit to award women this alleged right on the same principle if a majority decides that the state has the right to deprive mentally or physically handicapped children of their lives or to permit permit voluntary or compulsory euthanasia then what possible objection can there be from those who believe that Right are wrong or no more than the expressions of majority opinion at any

given time the stop by what I was saying then is if morality is simply what the majority of people see fit to accord at any given time then there's no reason why the state would not have the right to deprive mentally or physically handicapped children of their lives or to permit voluntary or compulsory euthanasia so in this case what possible objection could there be from those who Believe that right or wrong are no more than the expression of majority opinion at any given time I find it rather entertaining to see one of the Liberals who

believe is being taken off to the euthanasia chamber in his hospital huh and objecting to this if the majority of the people which is could quite possibly happen in the future because with the great plunge in the birthrate the number of elderly people is going to go up as a proportion Of the population and people in my age group a very good reason to be apprehensive of the future so let us not mince words if we exclude God from the decisions of what is or is not morally acceptable if we accept that right and wrong

can be decided by a majority vote then think about this if right and wrong we decided only by a majority vote on this principle why should Jews not be gassed if a majority of citizens within a particular State voted in favor of this measure this might seem like a horrifying suggestion but think about it find an answer if you can leave God out of it leave objective moral standards out of it if a majority of people in Germany agree that you should be gassed then what possible objection could there be to doing so on the

basis of the liberal principles pope leo xiii tore to shreds the theory that authority resides in the people that those who Govern do so as their delegates and then what is right and what is wrong must be decided by the will of the majority surely anyone who is opposed in principle to the gassing of Jews as I'm sure we all are must accept that Pope Leo's case is irrefutable this is what the Pope wrote in a society grounded upon such Maxim's all government is nothing more nor less than the will of the people and the

people being under the power of itself alone is its own Ruler it does choose nevertheless some to whose charge it may commit itself but in such wise that it makes over to them not the right so much as the business of governing to be exercised however in its name and this is the crucial part the authority of God is passed over in silence just as if there were no God or if he cared nothing for human society or as if men whether in their own individual capacity or bounded gathering social relations oh nothing to God

or as If there could be a government of which the whole origin and power and authority did not reside in God himself first as his evident the state becomes nothing but a multitude which is its own master and ruler and that is the situation the whole of the Western world today the state has become nothing but a multitude which is its own master and ruler and has no accepts no objective sources of right or wrong outside the opinion of the majority of Its citizens so they couldn't possibly be a more accurate description of every state

in the english-speaking world today as a multitude which is its own master and ruler the one exception under last year was Ireland but the Irish multitude has now decided that divorce which is prohibited by the law of God is desired by the people under the power of itself alone and must therefore be permitted the term right has already been mentioned several times I've made Mention of the so called right to choose on the part of women who wish to murder their unborn babies the terms freedom and liberty can be considered as synonymous the fundamental meaning

of the terms freedom and liberty is the ability to act without restraint or without constraint such constraints can be of various kinds a man serving a prison sentence in New York might like to spend a few weeks on the beach in Florida but he would be prevented from Doing so by physical constraint I would like to go and visit my local pub and have a few beers once a week once a month or even once a year but I dare not do so for fear of what would happen if my wife found out yes oh

thank you this is von Hildebrand it for your support I presume that this is what must be known as matrimonial constraint okay I have a little revenge on von Hildebrand's an absolutely true story you might have heard about two Hundred men arrived at the pearly gates all together and since Peter said when it's going to be hard to process them so he said form yourselves into two lines men who are browbeaten by their wives in one line men who are not browbeaten by the wise in the other line and in one line there were 199

men in the other line there's just one and SCIM Peter said oh well I'm glad you could stand up for yourself why are you standing in this line the man said because my wife Told me to but that's it so sorry that there are two forms of constraint but we're concerned here today with the most important of all forms of constraint which is moral constraint there can be no true right to perform any action in the face of moral constraint and I'll explain what moral constraint is now the Oxford Companion to law tells us that

the term right is a match ill used and overused word it's correct definition is a just claim or title so if you have a Right to anything you have a just claim or title to it the word just is of the greatest possible importance for where a claim is not just there can be no true right to make it some Thomas Aquinas tells us that a just man is one who renders to others what is their right or do so that's what justice is justice is rendering to others what belongs to them but as they're

right or they do Catholic teaching clearly expressed in the teaching of Pope Leo the 13th is that no Man can lay claim justly to anything that is contrary to the eternal or natural law of God the eternal or natural law is the primary law to which every man has a duty to submit and it is implanted in our hearts by our Creator as part of human nature Pope Leo the 13th explains that the natural law is written and engraved in the mind of every man and this is nothing but our reason commanding us to do

right and forbidding Sin but as a result of original sin man may find it harder to recognize certain aspects of the natural law particularly in cases where it conflicts with his personal inclination a middle-aged man who wishes to divorce his middle-aged wife in order to marry his beautiful young secretary is more than likely to claim that no matter how long he gazes into his heart he does not find a prohibition of divorcing grave there but if he can blind himself to the fact that His Secretary's motivation wishing to marry him could only be to get

her hands on his money it is hardly surprising that he can blind himself to the reality of the natural law so how can we know what the natural law is well thanks to the fact that our Lord has endowed his church with an infallible Magisterium no Catholic need ever been doubt as to the teaching of the natural law on you or controverted questions the invention of the birth control pill brought about a New situation was a delivery term adoption for Catholics the Magisterium answered in the negative the possibility of in vitro fertilization gave New Hope

to childless couples was this a legitimate option for Catholics once again the Magisterium replied no which could not have been the answer that many of these couples wish to hear can Catholic couples make use of the most modern methods of natural family planning which have reached the stage of Becoming as reliable it's not more reliable than some forms of contraception the magistration and the Magisterium has applied an infirmity and those who reject this teaching or a zen catholic as those who claim the Catholics can use the pill ours is not a cafeteria religion we accept

the teaching of the Magisterium on matters of faith and morals because it is the teaching the Magisterium and not because it coincides with our personal Inclination some of you here today may be saying to yourselves this is all well and good but we're discussing a secular state and in a secular state Catholics cannot possibly expect the majority of non Catholic citizens to accept the teaching of the Magisterium on the content of the moral law on the contrary this is precisely what we should expect and it is our duty as Catholics to you religious liberty that

we are reported in a secular state to bring every Possible pressure to bear upon the government to conform its legislation to the natural law as I've already made clear no one Catholic on or non Catholic can justly lay claim to anything that is contrary to the eternal or natural law of God and this applies not simply to individuals but to States no government can possibly have the right to legalize as moral abominations as abortion or the performance of homosexual acts which are manifestly opposed the eternal law of God and were considered as a Bominable by

every decent citizen under the 1960s no matter what his religion the teaching of pope leo xiii upon this subject could hardly be more clear and note in the quotation that i'm going to read to you that we're a government in acts legislation contrary to the natural law he states that we do not simply have a right to refuse to obey it but we are bound not to obey it the pope writes it is manifest that the eternal law of god Is the sole standard and rule of human liberty not only in each individual man but

also in the community and civil society which men constitute when united therefore the true liberty of human society does not consist in every man doing what he pleases for this would simply end in turmoil and confusion and bring on the overthrow of the state but rather in this that through the injunctions of the civil law all may more easily conform to those Prescriptions of the eternal law the binding force of human laws is in this that they are to be regarded as applications of the eternal law and incapable of sanctioning anything which is not contained

in the eternal law as in the principle of all law where a law is enacted contrary to reason or to the eternal law or to some ordinance of God obedience is unlawful lest while a baying man we become disobedient to God the Catholic position then is perfectly Simple a true right that is a right that we could be exercised with moral Liberty can exist to choose only that which is good and true no human being can ever have a genuine right to choose what is evil or false and legislators who must govern as legate's of

God can have no genuine right to promulgate legislation favoring what is evil or false Pope Leo summarizes their duty in the following terms the true liberty of human society Does not consist as I said you once more does not consist in every man doing what he pleases which is virtually accepted today as dr. George said this morning as long as he doesn't harm his neighbor's right but but for this would simply end in turmoil and confusion bring on the overthrow of the state and this is the crucial passage but rather in this that through the

injunctions of the civil law all may more easily conform to those prescriptions of the eternal law so in Every state a Catholic state a non Catholic state a Muslim state a Protestant state the government has a duty to legislate so within a way that will help people conform to the law of God there is not a country in the english-speaking world today where a state does not do the opposite to this where a state does not legislate to enable every man to do what he pleases and actually to incite its citizens to disobey the prescriptions

of the eternal Law as I just mentioned you the last country which was governed in accordance with the principles of the moral law was Ireland and it's very important to point out that Ireland the Republic of Ireland was never a Catholic state at any time it was a secular state but a secular state governed in accordance with the principles of natural law this of course is no longer the case in Ireland except except in the matter of abortion and even this prohibition is now under Serious attack one of the most important factors indeed the most

important factor for the stability of any state is the stability of family life leaving aside all religious considerations the legalization of divorce has disastrous financial and social implications in Britain husbands who divorce or remarry or simply cohabit with their new partner as often as not do not pay any or all of the maintenance that they've been Ordered to provide for their wives and children I don't know if they use that term in the United States but if a man leaves his wife he's supposed to pay us some money tweak for upkeep that's known as maintenance

many of these men are unemployed or they claim to be unemployed so that they don't have to pay provide the money for it for their families and so the state has to do so the state has to provide welfare payments for the wife and children the Children from broken homes are almost invariably emotionally scarred they often underachieve at school and a far more likely to be divorced than children from a stable marriage believe it or not in Ireland and to last year that the law which made it easier for married couples live in accordance with

the eternal law to their benefit and to the benefit of the state by not permitting divorce as a result of this prohibition 97 percent of Irish couples Are still living with a spouse that they first married which is absolutely incredible if you consider that with the figures in the United States of Britain middle-aged businessman in Ireland if not until now been banging their beautiful secretaries because the beautiful secretaries knew that they could not get their hands upon the incomes of their employers this of course would change now as most citizens tend to equate what is

moral with what Is legal the Republic has also legalized contraception and homosexual acts can Catholics do anything to bring about conformity to the eternal law of God in a secular state such as a USA in certain respects they could and they should utilize the religious liberty that their secular state accords them to overthrow at least the most scandalous examples of anti god legislation abortion being the most notable example the greatest scandal in states such as Britain or the United States is that Catholics the children of light show less seal in promoting the principles which they

profess to uphold then do the children of darkness in both our countries this has been due largely to a scandalous lack of leadership on the part of our hierarchies in the aftermath of vatican ii a failure prompted no doubt by a conception on the part of most bishops of the Called spirit of Vatican 2 a spirit in which dialog was considered preferable to confrontation and intolerance came to be accepted as the only intolerable attitude for a Catholic try to recall the church in your country as it existed at the conclusion of the council it was

strong respected and even feared by the Liberals filmmakers in the United States I should say movie makers should die movie makers in the United States possessed a legal right accorded by your Constitution to make movies attacking the Catholic Church but how often did they ever do so possibly never and at the very worst hardly ever because the Catholic Bishops had the right to exercise their religious liberty by condemning such films and a film condemned by the Legion of decency was certain to be a box-office flop was there any forceful and United Episcopal action when the

Last Temptation of Jesus Christ or priest were screened could Abortion have being legalized in the face of concerted action by the entire hierarchy what politician could have been elected in the United States or could be elected in the United States today if Catholics voted against him as a bloc Catholics are perfectly free to vote in accordance with their religious principles why are their bishops and to now not been urging them to do so this of course raises another question why do Most Catholics not act without Episcopal leadership 1996 marks the 10th anniversary of the death

of Hamish Fraser of who many of you here will have heard and the motivating force of his antara postulate was that lay Catholics have a duty to act as apostles in their own Miglia without waiting for orders from the hierarchy this of course is what has happened with a pro-life movement in the United States it is a lay inspired movement which later gained Some Episcopal support the reason that Catholic laymen have been so ineffective in the years since the council is that they had developed the habit of acting only under clerical leadership and when the

leadership failed to emerge most laymen failed to act what a contrast with a zeal shown by the children of Darkness the proponents of evil it is to the shame of Catholics in your country in mind that our legislators have directly floated the eternal law of God when concerted action by the Catholic community could have prevented this I'm told that in the United States the Catholic population consists of at least 30% of the population as a whole and yet due to their inaction more unborn babies are being murdered than soldiers killed in every war in which

Americans have fought including a and since the Civil War the probable figure in the United States is now 30 million five times greater than The Nazi Holocaust of the Jews and I was told by a Canadian gentleman yesterday that the population of Canada is about 27 million so in the United States more unborn babies are now being aborted to the entire population of Canada imagine if you heard on the news to know the entire population of Canada had been wiped out the shame is shared by Catholics in my own country as far as I know

in every english-speaking country except for the moment Ireland which Still prohibits abortion this shame has be compounded when we examine what homosexuals have done to make their vile perversion not simply tolerated but accepted as a legitimate lifestyle and a lifestyle that is now receiving preferential treatment rather than simple toleration from the state despite their claims to form 10% of the population these people have been proved to be no more than one-and-a-half percent of the population in both our Countries but look what they've achieved one and a half percent of the population of the United States

and Britons had the law completely changed in their favor that shows what can be done the 30 percent of Catholics in the population have done nothing far too many Catholics so if the law has been changed to legalize the murder of unborn children and sexual perversion it can be changed back to conform once more to the eternal law of God far too many Catholics Perhaps most Catholics imagine that their possession of religious liberty in a secular state entitles them to the untroubled practice of their religion and nothing more how often have we had the squalid

of politicians claiming to be practicing Catholics who insist that it would be wrong to let their faith affect the manner in which they perform their public duties in a very interesting address to the bishops of Lithuania Dated a seventh of December pope john paul ii condemned as insidious as an insidious limitation on the religious freedom of catholics a situation which applies in practice and which he described as more subtle than overt persecution this is how this is what he explained I am thinking here of the claim that a democratic society should relegate to the realm

of private opinion its members religious beliefs and the moral convictions that derive from faith At first glance this appears to be an attitude of necessary impartiality and neutrality on the part of the state in relation to those of its members who follow different religious traditions or none at all indeed it is widely held that this is the only enlightened approach possible in a modern pluralistic state but if citizens are expected to leave aside their religious convictions when they take part in public life does this mean not mean that Society not only excludes the contribution of

religion to its institutional life but also promotes a culture which defines man as less than what he is in particular there are moral questions at the core of every great public issue should citizens whose moral judgments are informed by their religious beliefs be less welcomed to express their most deeply held convictions when that happens is not democracy emptied of any real meaning And one very important point to make with regard to digna status humanity the Vatican to decorate on religious liberty is it it states that that legislation should be based on the objective moral order

and it was in fact the present Pope when he was Archbishop vitala who insisted on that being put in the declaration so they decorate on religious liberty Liberty in no way exonerate States from governing in accordance of the objective moral law But unfortunately most Catholic politicians today in all countries are only too willing to do what the Pope described here to leave aside their religious convictions when they take part in most in public life and even more said most Catholic Bishops have been only too happy to permit them to do so untroubled by any fear

of an Episcopal rebuke how wonderful to read in the 2nd of May edition of The Wanderer the Cardinal O'Connor is considering excommunicating pro-abortion Catholic politicians although I must say I fail to see how one can be pro-abortion and a Catholic so God bless God bless Cardinal O'Connor and let us pray that he would be given the grace to take a step which of course will result in his crucifixion by the liberal media but our Lord said the mark of his apostles he said if you were of the world the world would love you well unfortunately

today the world Loves most American bishops and most British bishops well when they make some statement in something in favor of something absolutely outrageous is always called a prophetic insight and they're praised for it that the design of the followers of our Lord is that they're going to be hated Cardinal O'Connor is said to be particularly and rightly outraged that nine Catholics in the Senate sorry not yes nine Catholics in the Senate voted against the partial-birth abortion plan now do you think these nine Catholics would have dared to vote against legislation which was to ensure

that half born baby seals had their brains sucked out they wouldn't have even thought of the voting in favor of legislation which would allow that but it is human beings children given a soul by God that's okay and they claim to be Catholics one little point I'd like to make our our slightest appointed what Dr. George saying this morning he was giving arguments you in favor of opposing abortion what is the reason abortion is wrong the rear why is it wrong to abort a human baby and not wrong so he said to kill a little

the reason is at the moment of its conception a human fetus a human baby is given an immortal soul by God and it has an eternal destiny and even though it's not popular to you to refer to limbo Today there's no guarantee that these unborn children will get to heaven possibly they will limbo is the define teaching but it's our that would be one of the most horrifying aspects of the abortion Holocaust if it means that all these children are denied their eternal destiny in heaven so but again you see you have to bring God

into the morality I can't see how you can have any morality without God and the reason killing unborn babies is wrong is that They have an immortal soul in in a mortal destiny this veto by your president of the partial-birth abortion it evokes possibly the most forthright condemnation ever made by the Vatican of an American president I expect many of you have read it but if in case you haven't I will the press office of the Holy See stated on April the 19th and this is really encouraging to hear this the presidential decision in contradiction

to the position of the American Congress is a shameful veto which in practice amounts to an incredibly brutal act of aggression against innocent human life and the in alien inalienable human rights of the unborn the fact that this presidential decision legalizes this inhuman procedure morally and ethically in perils the future of a society which condones it naturally this situation makes ever more urgent a greater solidarity of everyone in defense of the Life of the unborn who cannot speak for themselves now this is a very very important statement here it makes ever more urgent a greater

solidarity of everyone in defense of the life of the unborn that means your bishops and your priests and the Catholic laity Clinton's veto is a monstrous act but could not his veto provide a providential occasion for the Catholic Church in the United States to regain its soul if it cannot unite on this issue could it ever unite On anything if the hierarchy States it should do that no Catholic could possibly vote for Clinton which is simply to stay the obvious he could not be reelected and millions of devout Catholic a devout Protestants would probably follow

the lead given by Catholics that Catholics rid themselves of the ridiculous notion that because they live in a secular state to the laws of Christ the King bear in mind the famous dictum of Edmund Burke that it is Sufficient for the triumph of evil that good men do nothing and can men who do nothing in the force of such evil as we are witnessing today truly be considered good evil has triumph throughout the secular states of the english-speaking world principally because Catholics led by their bishops did nothing because they were perfectly happy to relegate the

teaching of the church to the realm of private opinion this constituted an explicit rather than an implicit Rejection of the kingship of Christ there is only one acceptable position for a Catholic to adopt no matter what type of state he lives in it was perfectly expressed by Pope Leo the 13th the son of God the Creator and also the Redeemer of human nature is the king and Lord of the world and holds supreme power over men both as individuals and as united by law therefore the law of Christ must prevail in human association and in

society so that it is the ruler And teacher and this is the key phrase so that is the ruling teacher not only a private but also a public life Cardinal Pia French Cardinal who was a giant at the first Vatican Council and among the very greatest French theologians of the past century gave what I would term using the term prophetic in its correct term a prophetic warning of the consequences of banishing Christianity from public life and restricting it to the domestic lives of its adherents when A country's Christianity is reduced to the proportions of domestic

life which is the case in every english-speaking country today when Christianity is no longer the soul of public life of the are over state and of public institutions then Jesus Christ would treat such a country as he himself is treated he will continue to bestow His grace and blessings on those who serve Him but he will abandon the institution and authorities that do not serve Him And such institutions authorities kings and races become like the sands of the desert or like the dead leaves of autumn which can be blown away by a gust of wind

Hilaire Belloc stated correctly that there are only two alternatives for society Catholicism or chaos if it is not to be chaos if Christ is not to abandon us then Christ must reign and if he is to reign he can only do so if we who claim to be his disciples restore him to his rightful throne as I've Already mentioned to you 1996 marks the 10th anniversary of Hamish Fraser's death and exactly 20 years ago in his journal approaches he wrote a most important article entitled the necessity of Christ's social kingship the phrase social kingship of

course refers to our Lord's right to rule over societies as well as individuals Hamish insisted in this article as he insisted throughout his apostolate upon the necessity for social action Hamish as many of you will be aware was a convert from communism and the purpose of communism was to act communists rightly considered that a meeting in which people merely talked without resulting action is a total waste of time so they would consider that our convention here today and as some action results from it would be a total waste of time and I think that they'd

be right Hamish castigated those Catholics who simply lament the deplorable condition Of the church and state today but take no action to restore order he wrote in social action as in all else the Christian must first seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness for then we are assured all other things including social justice temporal well-being social order and harmony will come of themselves the primary duty of Christian social action properly so-called is to bear witness to the need for society to conform to God's laws And the natural law by insisting that all legislation and

all social and political institutions be so informed as to make it as easy as possible for men to lead virtuous lives the Christians primary social responsibility is to insist not upon the social rights of Maine but rather on the social rights of Christ that's the rights of Christ over society over the state to insist on the social rights of Christ the king and to resist all the forces which seek to Affect the D Christianization of states and human society in saying this Hamish was echoing I'm sure consciously a plea made by Pope Leo the 13th

in 1900 the people have heard quite enough about what I call the Rights of Man let them hear about the rights of God let us then heed the words of Hamish Frazer and let this conference result in positive action by everyone here today to utilize to the full their right to religious liberty in this secular state - let your Legislators hear about the rights of God and let your legislators know that they cannot hope for your votes if they ignore these rights here are a few practical suggestions one that everyone here today right - Cardinal

O'Connor congratulating him on his courage and considering the excommunication of pro-abortion politicians beg him to take this step and urge as many of your friends as possible to write in the same vein - right at once - Archbishop Anthony peeler president of the Bishops Conference - the NCC be congratulating the conference for its letter signed by all eight active American Cardinals exposing Clinton's mendacious and hypocritical plea that he had no choice but to veto the partial-birth amendment listen to these wonderful words of your eighth Cardinals you to this speaking to Clinton you and you alone

had the choice of whether or not to allow children almost completely born to be killed Brutally they told him it is not often than we have a valid reason for congratulating bishops today if we encourage them they may give us further reasons to do so let everyone here today also right to their own bishops and persuade their friends to do so urging them to excommunicate pro-abortion Catholic politicians and to make it clear to the faithful in their diocese that they have no right to vote For any proportion politician let everyone here today right to their

own legislators is assuring them they will not vote at any time for any politician who is willing to tolerate the murder at any stage in the life of any unborn baby perhaps the most important piece of action of all that could result from this meeting is if those here today when they return home when engage in the formation of cells on the lines of the technique used by the Communist Party I'd better explain what that means to use something always urged by Hamish Fraser experience wrote Hamish has shown that the necessary doctrinal formation is most

effectively accomplished in small groups of dedicated Catholics who seek to know and implement the authentic Social Doctrine of the church the term small is crucial here the optimum size of such a cell should be of six members three or four members is more than adequate if the numbers grow beyond six A second cell should be formed the members should meet once or twice a month not too often or they'll soon begin to tire of it once or twice a month the the standard meeting the standard procedure advocated by Hamish with it should obviously begin with

prayer then a short period of study of Catholic social teaching Catholic moral teaching and then and this is the crucial point and then to decide upon some positive form of action one week it Might be writing to a bishop the next week to a politician or to a store a film company promoting pornography or picketing an abortion clinic the most important aspect of the cell system advocated by Hamish is that the action decided upon should not be confined to the soul members once the action has been decided upon members of the cell should all in

their powers to persuade as many of their friends and acquaintances as possible To take the same action the number of Catholics you'd finally be willing to take part in these cell meetings to get dragged themselves away from the television even once a fortnight would be very very small but if for example you explain to your friends what partial-birth abortion is you show them the letter written to Clinton by the American a Cardinals and then say what could you hear here's the address - right - couldn't you write a short Letter congratulating the bishops the columns

for doing something so wonderful then people who aren't willing to give up you know an hour or so a week or a month for meetings would at least be willing to spend a couple of minutes writing a letter so it and also it's not necessary for cell members when they try and persuade their friends to take this action even to tell them this cell exists in fact it might be better not to do so it was by using this cell Technique that the Communists were able to assume virtual control of large trade unions in Britain

even though their actual members form no more than a fraction of one percent of the Union this Methodist Father Harrison window is also used in Australia under the auspices of the Bob Santa Maria I think is the most of you won't have heard of him he's certainly I think the greatest layman in the english-speaking world I had the honour of meeting him a few days Ago ah now another practical suggestion an excellent tool for any of you who form these cells and I hope you all will to use in their apostolate is the Journal of

the American Family Association this journal has a has a snappy title journal and it can be obtained for the American Family Association Journal pío draw two four four zero Tupelo MS whatever ms might be three eight eight zero three penny one wants the address I'll give it to them afterwards does anyone know about this association Oh quite a few people do now the the AFA the American Family Association is an a Protestant organization but to our shame there is as yet no comparable Catholic Journal it's a it's an association which would have delighted hey miss

Frazer as it is geared entirely to action it gives you the facts you need to work for the reestablishment of the kingdom of Christ and suggest the appropriate Action to take did you know for example that every time you make a purchase at Kmart you are supporting a leading retailer of pornography did you know that every time you use your AT&T card you are patronizing one of the leading promoters of sodomy in the United States the American Family Association drone will give you all the facts you need they'll also give you the addresses to write

to we were there they started a boycott of Cape March and they provide You with a postcard with the address of the Kmart's director and a little message saying until you stop retaining pornography I shall never make another purchase of Kmart and they gave out tens of thousands of these cards so if we can start Catholic cells you see you could use this magazine as the source of some action I'm going to conclude to relieve expressions on a lot of your faces I'm going to conclude by quoting Archbishop John F Donahue of Atlanta who is

another Good Shepherd I like Cardinal O'Connor and he also deserves a letter of thanks from everyone here today God is said to write straight with crooked lines and as I've already mentioned it would be ironic if Clinton's partial birth abortions veto resulted in the Church of the United States regaining its soul Archbishop Donohue made the following direct appeal for action the time for stronger action has come and perhaps the voice the actions and Listen to this word the voice the actions and the votes of informed loyal Catholics is just that forceful action which is needed

today this week and in the months ahead we must let our witness be known on this issue in some way the conscience borne in our baptism demands that all Catholics accept and make visible in their lives condemnation of this highness Act which thrives within our culture and this is an issue about our culture this is not an argument About politics though the church teaches that God has given us free will if abortion is chosen then the choice no matter how pitiable no matter how understandable still stands as a Forsaken opportunity to witness to the cross

of Christ some will misjudge these sentences is being hypocritical some will pride against me for making them but it is with if you heard an American Bishop speak like this for a While but it is with the authority of a bishop of Christchurch committed to teaching Christian truth that I express them and that I remind all Catholics of the necessity to believe them well that's a wonderful statement that we must accept this responsibility which he says he calls on all of us to make accept and make visible in our lives condemnation of his hideous act

so he shouldn't just be shocked about abortion shocked about partial-birth abortion Shocked about fintan Archbishop Donahue says we have to do something about it every Catholics you have to do something about it and if we don't do something about it what sort of Catholics are we this is a really inspiring call to action to Catholic action and to action in the cause of Christ the King the United States our cause your religious liberty our Lord Jesus Christ demands that you use this religious liberty in his Service dare we refuse him thank you very much oh

yeah yes yes just before we have any questions I didn't want to put this in the text of my talk because I didn't want to be accused of putting in Pro una voce propaganda but it I think it's very interesting these two wonderful bishops I've quoted today Cardinal O'Connor who some of you have heard it seems to be quite sympathetic to the trail in time Mass judging from tomorrow and Archbishop Donohue is invited the fraternity of st. Peter into his diocese and they're going to have a church they've got a completely traditional parish and they're

going to have a completely brand-new church built for them so I think it's interesting if these Duke bishops are giving a lead in taking forceful steps uphold the kingdom of Christ the King also giving the lead in upholding the Tridentine mass I'd like to mention today we've got the President Fred Hanul is here the president of the UNA volce I'm not sure if he is a bobble peláez I'm not quite sure what's growing in the United States but but Fred is the computer man and in the United States in the world is the computer man

who counts and the he's got a packet here today and anyone who would like to start nuna voce cell or association in their town or in their state you can get one of these packets from Fred which would tell you all about It and the the perhaps if we have time at the end of my questions father Perry Cohen would like to actually let Fred to say word or two yes if father Perry Cohen says sure given time that means like hell I will that's but anyway would you stand up Fred let me embarrass an

American there's Fred in the distinctive yellow jumper and matches the yellow envelopes and you see Fred he'll give you a plain unsealed envelope here containing you Know what ty suppose litter disks would consider sort of liturgical pornography because it's in favor of the tridents on mass yes you did it before you saw the car you have you all heard what the definition of 50 liturgist at the bottom of a river would be a good beginning not will follow the same procedures before if you'd line up near the microphones we only have 30 minutes I'll be

forefathers 50s for mr. Davies early in your address you Mentioned the problem of unbridled majoritarianism uninformed by a conscience and as I understood suggested a possible solution in institutionalizing the kingdom of God in earthly governance where I live up in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts 365 years ago the civil government was constituted as a religious government and in this case Puritan to be a Catholic at the time was a crime punishable at the discretion of the Civil authorities either by banishment or hanging a very unhappy prospect in either case do you think that post-lab Syrian Americans

are capable of instituting a god-like civil government governance no no no I certainly don't I'm I'm not I always try to be realistic for instance uh I've got a lot of friends among French tradition assume a monarchist and devote a lot of time to restoring the monarchy in France as I don't think there's a hope in heaven Heather anywhere else of ever restoring the monarchy in France I wouldn't spend my time I urge people to spend their time trying to achieve something which can't be done so I wasn't trying to advocate that we that you

set up a Catholic state in the United States that are a Christian State even that could never be done what I'm saying is that religious liberty entitles Catholics to use the same sort of tactics used by services by the homosexuals you see in San Francisco they have a computerized voting system they interview the candidate see who will do the most for them and then every one of the people on their list gets a card telling them who to vote for now even I believe in San Francisco there's somewhat more numerous and one and a half

percent but if you if you can get a voting bloc which Catholics should be able if they got firm leadership in the way the bishops for the first time I think three years Have given on this partial-birth abortion and Catholics could start voting as a block imagine you couldn't 30% well 30% of the population imaginary 15% of Catholics would vote as a block no politician who was they were voting in games would have a chance of being elected that's a huge proportion 15% in in Britain a change of government is governed by only 70 constituencies

which are marginal most constituencies are always either labour or conservative They're 70 which swing and you need a swing of two and a half percent in these to change it which of course means 140 more MPs afterwards because when side loses 17 the other side means 70 that's just a two and a half percent swing so if you I'm sure people would respond in the United States if they got really firm leadership from their bishops and you had this Archbishop Donohue use that term using their votes I don't know if an American Bishop has been

saying that For some times and I'm being able to tell me that's rather daring statement to make you'll probably be accused of breaching the separation of church and state but cut everything the thing is if one and a half percent of homosexuals can change the law in your country why plant 30 percent of Catholics do it that's what I was urging yes to exonerate women from the slander they talk too much stuff and make two very brief remarks but do not Call for any comments number one professor George declared that he was a very keen

to Catholic you stood on the podium declare that you were not a Vatican two Catholic now I'll surprise some of you by saving them and passionate devotee of Vatican tune to the extent that it is embedded and rooted in Vatican 1 the Council of Trent and the Holy Tradition of the church to the extent that it is interpreted backwards experts and very much on your Side number two we have spoken a great deal about natural law I think we have to oppose the myth which is very widespread in the United States that the natural law

is a carefully convention has nothing to do with Catholicism it is an in which is universally and this is proven very clearly black Plato's devastating criticism of homosexuality so obviously I agree with that and do it I I think I did try to make it clear as well that it was that The natural law applies to everyone and I think also it's very very interesting that the fundamental eerily sense and validity of the natural law is being shown by what has been happening in the last twenty to thirty years when it's been abandoned just take

the having the simple question of contraception that was one issue on which everyone thought the Catholic Church was twin tolerant now there isn't a single country in the whole Western World except Ireland where the population is even reproducing itself Ireland is now down to the exact level I think it's 2.1 children per family which means it's just keeping the population stable and all the Western countries are now threatened with this visit this frightening prospect of a huge population of elderly people who need medical treatment at the state expense and the welfare payments and a dwindling

number of young people working in paying Taxes who are meant to support them you see the whole natural order has been reversed here so you can see the wisdom of Catholic teaching on that the same with divorce as I mentioned I think in my talk divorce has terrible social consequences for a country and when in the United States you're up to a figure about 60 percent I believe 50 to 60 percent of couples now get divorce that's going to have appalling social consequences for your country the Catholic Church has always condemned sodomy and you've got

now got the AIDS epidemic although in some ways this is a sad time to be a Catholic when we see the church in such disarray it's also a very good time to be a Catholic because we can see how why is the perennial teaching of the church is yes sir mr. Davies you had mentioned earlier Ireland some Latin American countries had been caught out of the Vatican as far as Having a constitution um Ireland didn't I don't know some Latin American country number how would you reconcile on Spain let's say during the 1950's and Spain

and Spain of today I mean after vatican ii i mean i i've been to spain i was in spain a couple of years ago and i can't tell the difference between spain today and let's say the states how young people behave and no I mean Spain is effectively dude I'm afraid it did Christianized countries or You made sure the young people using all going about wearing jeans and jumpers listening to these hard rock groups then most of them never see the inside of a church they've virtually got no religious police at all I think a

lot of them still like to have a church wedding but you see before before vatican ii and i'm glad you brought this point up because this is a point dr. george made a mistake on this morning dr. george was saying in a catholic state non Catholics Would be forced to become Catholics and forced to go to mass the church has never taught that at all the church has always condemned any coercion where religion is concerned a religious decision can only be a free a freely made choice but what it taught was that in an overwhelmingly

catholic country although non Catholics would be allowed to practice their religion in private so in spain the protestants had their own churches their own schools their own Journals they could not proselytize in public so if a jehovah's witnesses started going around the streets of madrid knocking on doors trying to convert catholics to the to their religion then first of all i suppose they'd be they'd be given a warning in court but if they insist on doing it they go to prison which is a but but the state wasn't stopping them believing in whatever job is

witnesses believed in or trying to force him to become Catholics Not at all it was just trying to protect the faith of the catholic people from the errors of these jehovah's witnesses now because of the teaching of digne tardis humanae which says which says that people have a right not to be prevented from making their religious views known in public there this constitution of spain was changed and Protestant sects can now evangelize in spain and all the others said i was i was singing out answer such a question Earlier that young people have no no

interest in religion at tens of thousands of spanish people are joining these terrible sects I was read with horror I think two weeks ago that in Portugal a news Protestant sect from Brazil has been operating there for about three years and has already converted 200 thousand people so you see that protection has been taken away since Vatican 2 yes Chuck I was going to ask a question that I was Unable to ask this morning due to the lack of time but the gentleman from Massachusetts planted a thought on my added Alton with a very very

brief observation that if the law he mentioned in Massachusetts some three hundred and fifty years ago were still on the books there as well as the other states of this country our Catholic Bishops with a few honorable exceptions would not have to fear because if they were arrested and charged with being Catholic sideout Affair would be enough evidence to convict the question or comment that I had was a respectful disagreement with this morning speaker that there are no stage 3 liberals in the church I think that a case can be made that there are legions

of them and that the results have been catastrophic and I would hope that maybe a future colloquium of Christopher Davis might address up if you'd care to comment yes well and correct me if I'm wrong I believe what Dr. George meant by stage 3 the stage 2 liberals were ones who said they wanted everything to be tolerated and stage 3 liberals are ones who want Catholic principles to be outlawed and prohibited and they are there what we would because there are moral principles enforces the law and yeah yes and and I mean there are probably

today in the church you're quite a few clerics and even some bishops I know mrs. von Hildebrand's husband here if if you haven't read the Book that devastated vineyard you really should that you really should read it if there's one book you should read about the crisis in the church would read von Hildebrand devastated vineyard and he said that that was written quite a time ago wasn't it in this in 1970 and he said today alas there two sorts of bishop in the Catholic Church there are those who allow the faith to be undermined and

there are those who are actively leading The movement to undermine and undermine it and and it absolutely leaves these people without any credibility at all it says it's been reprinted by Roman Catholic books so if you get the Latin Mass magazine which is the same as Roman Catholic books and you write and ask them for the cost of the devastated vineyard you could get it that by the way is another good thing you can do if you form these cells I suggested that different members of the cell could each Subscribe to a good journal and

then pass them round to each other because journals that uphold the teaching of the church in a solid way you get no support from like the church bureaucracy today and they depend upon the grassroots Catholics to increase their circulation and make their their influence felt yes sir mr Davies in light of what you said about the kingship of Christ would you say that any bishop priest or nun who will vote for Bill Clinton would be Committing a mortal sin and because they will not repent their folly would they die in a state of mortal sin

but I'd say a no Catholic bishop priest or nun or laymen who voted for Clinton could with any claim have any credibility in claiming to be a Catholic but I just tried very very quickly I have to do a little philosophical expertise about more mortal sin there yes there are three conditions to commit a mortal sin it must be very Grave matter and then which which voting for Clinton would be there must be full knowledge and full consent and for example I've always used to ask my pupils it were what would our mortal sins and

they'd put their hands up with great delight and say missing Mass on Sunday because children loved people did commit mortal go to hell so I say if you miss Mass on Sunday that's a mortal sin they say yes as alright if you're ill do you have to Get a mass when you're ill they say well no because you wouldn't you wouldn't really mean to miss mass and I said well what about all the Protestants in your road they don't go to Mass they say although they don't know any better you see and sadly today even

with nuns I'm having even some of the priests coming from the seminaries they haven't had a really sound Catholic doctrinal formation and they probably wouldn't have the full knowledge to make that Decision that's as someone mentioned to be in Australia in Australia 95 percent of Catholic teenagers are elapsed before they leave their schools which is appalling it's 90 percent in England but as one of the priests said to me they haven't really laps from the Catholic faith so they've never they they never really understood it so in many cases I didn't throw it would be

a mortal sin but in other cases probably due to Ignorance so it might not be but only God knows how much of it is invincible lizard oh yes only God knows and how much of it is you yeah yes it's us you think you're perfectly correct I know you told me earlier that you couldn't specifically answer about I know because you explained it to me oh okay so would you care to comment on it we did so the question was does the end ever justify the means in the postal a scam the the would you

call it bloody Way otherwise well the sting operation that's what I'm trying to say they the people involved in assuming our operation they sent porno catalogs to the subscribers and they also sent filled orders for porno videos and other material which resulted in grave mortal sin for the recipients we're the people who are involved in the skin in the in the sting operation are they guilty a mortal sin every bit as much as the people who received it well what the Lady explained to me was that these some post post employers were making special delivery

a purely pornographic material and obviously gain as I said to the gentleman who asked before with a question of mortal sin it would depend again on these obviously it's very very grave matter but there'd be the full knowledge and full consent and probably some of the non Catholic employees we wouldn't see anything wrong in doing it At all but what I'd say that no Catholic postal employee could justify being a Catholic in making special deliveries of nothing but pornographic material if they're making their ordinary morning round and it is stuck then something is stuck in

with the other posts I don't say they'd have much choice about that but but that wouldn't be as in this case you're specifically making a special delivery to gain extra money of purely pornographic material and of Course they're going back again what I was saying about you know the nature of a right no but no nobody can have a right either to print pornographic material or distribute it or read it and that's that again that's another objective that Catholics could get the law change think pornographer used to be illegal in the United States yeah how

did it come to the point where we're the Catholics allowed it to become legal where it be it's just offensive now and It stares you in the face everywhere you go it but it's a sort of thing again if you could get a good Catholic cell movement started that the law could be changed yes may I just address myself to this lady yes yes that material that was sent out by the post office was only sent from people who requested it in order to stop pornographic material going through the United States mail and as of

now have arrested many child abuses sex abusers and has been very Very successful we are putting handcuffs on our police on postal people who are trying to stop these wrong things it wasn't just sent out indiscriminately these people requested it and when they followed up on it they found out right in their own neighborhood on the same block who are sexually abusing too little down the block oh that's put the completely different light upon it what this lady says that I've seen at a sting It was it was like a police operation use used to

find out people who were yeah yes yes well I have in perhaps father might want to contradict me if I'm wrong on this but I think that would be a perfectly legitimate tactic for the police to use to get to catch to catch these people yes sir now mr. Davis if I may I'd like to supplement some of the information that you gave on the American Family Association I happen to be treasurer of The New York State chapter that's good and your friend father Franco who put me on yes okay and the subscription price is

$15 a year if anyone here wants to subscribe through the New York State chapter we can get about 1/3 discount about ten dollars a year also two thirds of the subscribers are Catholic it is a Protestant group and for a small fee I think it's $29 and anybody has a computer that was to write letters you can obtain a diskette containing all the Congressmen and Senators their addresses and all of the CEOs of the major corporations the United States that promote anti Family Values on television so that it can write to them that's all available

to the less so so if you want the address of the New York association you'd be able to give it a vm here in a moment and also I believe if you order something like 10 copies you get it at $4 yeah yeah they have a very very big reduction no it does it's also although It's a Protestant Association it's done very very good working trying to combat anti-catholic prejudice there is that film New York blue apparently which puts Catholic New York recently very bad light one of a nosy the American Family Association is and

has done a lot to expose that we are raw Catholics that work with it but on and Long Island in New York State but it's because there is no Catholic group yes like that but you see that's the sort of thing if you have These this form these cells as I suggested you need the tools I think that was what mr. Churchill said to the American in the second world war because the Americans they never join in wars until the British have already won them but we we wanted some help he said give us the

tools and we'll finish the job then the Americans sent them over sir a lot of weapons and ships and things at the beginning of the war well if you're Going to fight a war against the evil forces you're ruling our countries today we need the tools we need the information you see if you're going to ask someone to write a letter or they want to know the address and again some people today okay I've reached the point where they won't write a letter that's why you get these these cards so all you're going to do

is if you've got a stamp stamp your address on the card and sign it obviously an individual letter Is much more effective but you see the sort of thing the cells could do you could supplement the gentleman's mentioned they've given you all the names addresses and information about all your legislators the diskette could be amplified with Catholics by giving the names of all your bishops are on it you see this if if a movement like this got started there's no end to the influence that couldn't have and anyway thank you very much for telling us

that Well if you want details you'll see me Sal Sal gotelli yes if you're on the details see cell basically Mike sent me well one further point yet through volunteers we put a program on a television program every Saturday night from 8 o'clock to 8:30 to a public-access and father parafilm was gracious enough to be a guest recently from one of the programs that's one out of 25 yeah that's wonderful and also see Chris Ferrara the back There because he's that he's the secretary or president or or both of the American Catholic Lawyers Association they're

doing wonderful work if Father Perricone can find the time it would be wonderful crisp could just say a couple words to you about the work that his association is doing you don't have to be a lawyer to join it though from us in the United States there very few people who aren't lawyers well yeah everyone I meet is it as a million of them in the Country oh yeah yes so probably everyone everyone who's finding an interval Chi chapter seems to be a lawyer office