here's the thing about songwriting I mean I love lectures but songwriting is his man it's such a practical thing and I'm so glad that I finally get to give a practical talk how many guys are songwriters written songs that's good how many guys don't know much about songwriting but you want to alright good job um how many guys want to know about songwriting but you don't play an instrument right on you know what's amazing um I am I'm probably the opposite of Brian in a lot of ways he's a melody guy I think why we
found such a kind of a sweet marriage is because um I I tended to be a lot better at lyrics when I first started songwriting I don't think I thought that way um I think I thought I was good at everything you know yeah that's classic it's young you know that's just that's what it is so um you learn you learn as time goes on what you're actually good at what you have a real strength in it doesn't mean that you don't know how to do the other stuff or you don't have something to contribute
it just means you learn your strengths and I'll just say this one thing that I'm really loving that's happening in the world today is co-writing is becoming like a huge deal and it's when you can find these relationships these complementing strengths where someone carries the thing that you don't you don't necessarily carry a strength for and when you're able to find those people in the marriage that happens and the songs that kind of come to light it's also one of the most challenging things you'll ever do probably in your life any guys ever tried to
co-write yeah how'd it go for you so curious so curious I've been in some terrible terrible co-writes um where nothing's going right you just want to die and just want the meeting to end but you got to keep it going because you had that it's not yeah whatever okay we're not talking about that let's talk about lyrics um the difference between a pop song and a worship song for me is that a pop song doesn't need to say anything so I'm talking about worship songs so in case you're wondering a pop song is literally only
responsible to like communicate a feeling it's like they can string together the craziest concepts it doesn't need to make sense it just needs to be provocative in some way and actually communicate some kind of emotion that's like a great pop song worship song is nothing like that the reason is because we're communicating a message it's our job to communicate a message and not just any message this message is the hope of the world so it's a really really big deal the gospel is a message and if it's a message which it absolutely is it needs
gifted communicators and I don't know how many guys Brian asked if you you know how many were writers so how many guys feel like you're a writer wonderful wonderful it's so good it needs you it needs you it needs gifted communicators that take this message and actually give it a heart give it fresh language all that good stuff first point I'm just going to make this as quick as possible first point I want to say is content really really really matters the other day I tweeted um I was being sarcastic which I know we just
got rebuked for that this morning but um but you know sometimes sometimes sometimes uh you know I was like hey you know I had this random songwriting observation I figured out that songs that talked about God that tell people who he is they're really powerful and I said you welcome something like that you know which was totally sarcastic and I probably shouldn't have shouldn't have done that but I just found it amazing to me that time and time again the songs that actually endeavor to tell people about God how powerful those songs are they can
have a cheesy melody they can be a lot of things you know it's funny the song is still kicking around after all these years that that's really amazing that we're still singing here is Yahweh like when I first heard Yahweh it was early early in the vineyard and it was like I don't even know what kind of arrangement it probably wasn't a great one but you know who is moving old you know it has this like who is holding up the moon you know and whatever you know it's crazy about that song is that it's
really powerful it's really powerful is he who is he that makes me happy who is he that brings me peace it's just what is it doing it is telling people about God is telling him what he does I'm just like wow 15 years later that's all I'm still ruling just talking about God it's talking about this father good good father so all it is it's just like guess what he's a really really good good good father and you're like people like blah it's not rocket science content matters you know when I wrote when I'm you
know here in and this is not to toot my own horn so please hear me but um when we were first looking at the song this is amazing grace um the biggest issue with the song was content you know and Phil Phil and um Josh Farro they sent it they sent it our way and we were you know looking at it Brian and Joe actually said Jared this and I was the yeah this is where you're just like thank you Jesus that I didn't listen to myself praise Him because I didn't want to write on
the song I didn't even like the song all that much you know I mean that's the that's the big joke yeah but um and I even think it was that great of a song I'm like I don't know guys the chorus got this huge pause it's like this is amazing grace this is unfailing love and I'm like feels like I should move more to sing more and then if you're just after the end of the day you're like what do I know I I know nothing so um but we got this tune and the biggest
thing though it wasn't that it was a bad song at all it was actually a great tune and the lyrics were great um but it was it was like when I was broken and I was hurting you picked me up and gave me a purpose Jesus I sing for all that you've done for me which is not bad it wasn't bad at all it just didn't have that hmm and I'm like well we're gonna sing it we're gonna take it then it needs to just you know it needs to say more that's the biggest thing
I've just you know as a writer I'm like I wanna I want it to say more I wanted to have something that's actually like ah yeah this is amazing this is amazing grace like that that kind of a thing that I need that I need that kind of a thing so I'm driving down the road and I just begin to think like who breaks the who thunders over the waters who break you know like how the Psalms are just filled like who all these strange statements that we know nothing about who breaks the Cedars and
smashes them and you're like but that's really cool-looking I don't know how we can make that current you know but uh Mohammadi people are can you know connect with the Cedars of Bashan being smashed into pieces you know but but you know I'm saying it's the imagery it's imagery that's like who this God is and what he does and and and honestly that tune to went to a different level just because of content content content matters guys tell people who God is like search for languages the other thing whatever you want to produce as a
songwriter you first have to sow into yourself so if you want to be an amazing incredible lyricist if you want those kinds of things to actually flow from you you need to feast on great writers writers are readers if you don't like reading and you want to be a writer you need to get over not liking reading you need to read you need to read a lot I read him books just to remember just to remember to be reminded of like oh wow you ever read just ten books guys oh my gosh if you just
read the lyrics and hymn books it's like what are we singing these days good gracious it's remarkable how powerful the truth I mean I don't know I mean I'm just I'm preaching here so um I was home-schooled too so I blame it on blame it on that I grew up reading the most random assortment of books ever that most of them in Old English so that sometimes slips slips out but I grew up reading be a reader become a theologian I know that's really heavy term it just means someone who studies God theology is for
the purpose of doxology have said this before J I Packer it's a famous quote theology is for the purpose of worship that's what it's there for you don't study God to become educated and puffed up and so you can post on everybody's Facebook's and you know about how much you know about God that's not the purpose for the study of God the purpose for the study of God is the worship of God that's what it's there for worship writers need to be great studiers of God I've met so many passionate passionate passionate followers of Jesus
people who just claim to greatly love the Lord who have the hardest time reading about it which is just man there's something about that just doesn't ring true I just praying for a holy fascination with Jesus the point where you actually have a hunger I mean yeah I hope I'm not hoping I'm overly jabbing guys I know I mean readings not the best but however you want to read like my wife does audiobooks whatever it is know your God know him make him known that's the cry of a worship song to know God and to
make him known that's the cry of a worshiper know God and make him known however that happens get into the books read read read about the Lord read multiple versions of the Bible guys are tired yeah okay good learn to write with your spirit I'm trying to be practical I really am I write just tons and tons and tons of lyrics and what I'm looking for is I'm looking for where the power rests you know and Braun was talking about that he just talks about when you're when you're when you're singing something and all of
a sudden just that that thing there's a connection that happens it's like words jump off the page I don't know if you guys have ever experienced reading the Bible and all of a sudden you may have read this passage a gazillion times was something like leaps off the page it's like your spirit is is connecting with it in some level in him you know when I was writing furious I went through at least you know five or six options of like it could be about this it could be about this it could be about this
I'm just looking for what where that thing happens where I'm like all of a sudden just got powerful in a second I begin to sing about the love of God connected with that melody it was just like ah there there that write with your spirits listen to your spirit you know I mean there are but you know there are so many so many great lyrics you can write I remember writing what you're writing love came down I wrote so many awesome lyrics like so many amazing lyrics that never ever made it because they weren't actually
what the song was meant to say and it was fascinating cuz I was on the phone with Brian it was my first week in reading and we're just on the phone the whole time in Brian's like yeah I think that could be cool and they hear Jen on the other line going no no that's not that's not it Jen carried a vision she carried like a super strong vision for that tune and it was like okay we're back to the drawing board and looking back on her and I'm like man I'm so glad so glad
she knew what that song was supposed to say you can write tons of lyrics you're looking for where the power rests employ tools guys I don't know what tools you use if you haven't downloaded maybe you got a better app than I do but I love rhyme you later um it's a rhyming app and the thing I love about it is that you don't just get perfect rhymes you get near rhymes you get syllables you get multiple and I'll just go through you know this problem is like man the language how many how many rhymes
for love are there I can recite them all to you everyone loved of drugs I mean there's only so many that work within the context of worship so but man rhyme you laters that thing that just takes you through every possible run near rhymes or rhymes that actually work when you sing them but they're not like perfect runs you know if that makes any sense employ tools journals of inspiring ideas I keep a journal of like things when I'm reading scripture particularly the message or different than you know that the latest one that bill loves
is the passion translation of just I'm looking for language I'm looking on a constant search for language and when I find like your brightness is like a thousand suns or these you know whatever these kind of statements are I'm like oh cool I'll just I write them down and I have a journal I have a whole catalogue filled with just ideas and concepts and things about God they're super moving to me and I'll revisit them on a regular basis when I'm actually trying to write lyrics alright writing lyrics you got to have good prosody lyrics
and melody were meant to dance together your lyrics were meant to follow your melody you know I ever watched dancers wear you know if they could throw in one partner could throw in like coolest little move but he gets out of sync with his other partner it doesn't look good there's a dance it's like this effortless flow where two people are completely moving together melody and lyrics are supposed to be like that they're in this dancer in this relationship and if one goes off and it could be to do something really really cool it can
screw the other up and it can actually create an obstacle for people actually able to sing a tune you know so prosody that's basically it it's it's it's the match of how well do your lyrics flow with your melody and it's super important and I realize that's very elementary but every time I've ever listened to a whole bunch of people saw I realize that that's not actually all that elementary a ton of people struggle your melody is king your melodies King you need to figure out what your melody is first because otherwise what you're going
to do is you're going to bend your melody to communicate a concept or to communicate a word and it works for Alanis Morissette it does not work within the context of worship Alanis Morissette makes that work she makes up pronunciations of words I know whatever I was fascinated by that I'm like what do you and then I would find out what she was saying later and yeah sometimes that's a little scary sometimes it's at whatever she's amazing watch for awkward sparks heart sparks watch for awkward spots hard to sing parts okay test your lyrics out
on friends particularly or non musical ones I remember trying to play a song for from two people who didn't have a musical bone in their body or at least I it didn't appear to be so and you know what they were still very helpful in terms of knowing what saw what parts of the song were actually tricky they don't have to be musical people to know um six thing I want to say about writing lyrics is know what the melody and the tone of the song is calling for I think being a great writer does
not mean you're always using big words or you know every grand in poetic skill you've ever possessed and you're trying to bring it all into to one song I think a great writer knows what a song is actually calling for I think a melody is already communicating something it already has a message in it what brings that melody to life and sometimes that can be a really really you know big huge massive words and really beautiful and poetic pictures and sometimes it's a very simple simple it's just heartfelt and honestly I've watched some very simple
songs get ruined when people try and use too many words too many big concepts you know let's just just say Jesus I love you that still works you know still really powerful the other thing I want to say about writing lyrics just find your language and I want to stress this guys for the love of all things good find your language find your language use your language for your experiences with God don't just use everyone else's words writing a love letter to your significant other let you know let me just ask you guys you you
be the judge would it be more meaningful to write a love letter from your heart your actual experience whether you're a gifted writer or not what what would be more meaningful but using your words or it would be better to go to a Hallmark store grab bunch of cards off the shelf and piece together a group of lines that are eloquent and beautiful and absolutely amazingly written what do you think is actually going to be meaningful though to your significant other you I just like it when I can hear someone's heart in a tune I'm
not hearing a bunch of platitudes am i hearing a bunch of you know commonly used phrases that everybody's singing we really have to watch this guy's I think where we're going and there's honestly huge tension here because you know sometimes in our and our zeal to say something fresh we're saying something heretical and and I'm you know we're just like what does that even mean you know so I um so yes yes say something fresh but it's more I'm just like we need to expand the kind of words that we use there are so many
things out there I mean there's man listen to great writers they just have their own language you know I've been listening to Death Cab for Cutie and the guy has his own language so one way of communicating and it's just really intriguing I'm really intrigued by writers and I love watching them fine find their way and find their voice one of our really a beautiful upcoming writers Callie Callie hi Logan Thal say that last name three times fast highly at all it's awesome um I had to work on it I'd practice it a lot she's
amazing but I mean just listen to this guy's your love is devoted like a ring of solid gold like a vow that is tested like a covenant of all that's awesome and if you know Callie she just bleeds that stuff all the time she'll send me these text messages and I'm like stop it what that's the most beautifully eloquent thing I've ever heard you hear yourself right now you're just texting that give me a break like she's a writer she's found her own language guys don't feel like you're you're you're you're locked in I mean
doors are coming open in terms of what the church will sing and what the church will say I'm not saying it doesn't need to be true I'm all about the Bible I love Scripture I I don't even read fiction for crying out loud I'm probably the worst example of this except that I've seen the power of when someone takes their language takes their experience takes the the words and the things that God's given them they actually begin to figure out how to utilize it it's powerful stuff it's powerful stuff and I just say as a
rule of thumb sometimes what I watch kind of an amateur thing to do is is what we do is we write like just a whole bunch like every line is like this out-of-the-box crazy way of thinking about God and and after a while the whole congregation just like well I'm still back on line three I know you're singing verse two you know but but you know and I remember honestly when how he loves first came out it was really funny you've never that song just exposed an age gap like like immediately and it caused so
much controversy you know in the church you play that song for adults and I remember we were right when it came out I I'm like he is jealous for me loves like a hurricane I am a tree and all the adults are like what what he play that song for a youth group and they're like hey lost huh oh oh he loves us and it's just like there's really amazed they had no problem like with the imagery or anything and you know even like on the shores of my soul I give you permission to wash
my tears to take away my disappointment still you know at our eight o'clock service they're like on the what what so here's the deal so no you know the battle is you know it's it's it's it's far from one and you know whatever I I just think like it's actually amazing what's Benny you know beginning to happen what people like John Mark McMillan and you know different really really creative types our own Hunter Thompson in your back there yeah buddy I'm talking about you I love you my dear okay man funny story on that I
don't know if I should tell that right now but that was a great moment for you hunts wasn't it yeah yeah okay so I got a chance to critique that song before that song ever came into existence and you know and I just I I got stuck on I love you my dear I'm like at the very end of it I'm like yeah yeah great song you know classic riddle you know I like great yeah you can't say that hunts I'm like II eat Eddings Calm hunts them whatever I cook them like you can't say
I love you my dear I think you're gonna really lose people I don't that's gonna get really weird and confusing and edited it out and I'm sitting there and I was sitting I could feel the hate stairs behind me because that everyone's like don't you dare critique that song and I'm like I'm just trying to uh you know wasn't wasn't my favorite moment in history and you know we tried so hard to beat that line you know and like I love you my king no it's terrible it just doesn't work like it was just not
it didn't work you know we actually couldn't beat it were like okay I love you my dear here we go guys this is this is what we're doing and actually it's beautiful and I made my whole peace with it because I'm like actually it's written from the context of the brought from the bride it's like I love you my dear and it's like anyway I was just you know it was this beautiful journey but it just just goes to show like it can be like a tortured existence if you're one of those crazy in you
know creative people I remember what was the other line you wrote my heart burns feel like some dry oak leaves no nothing can stop it not a raging sea and it was a beautiful beautiful thing are other guys like yeah grew up in Weaverville and dry burning oak leaves is like the worst thing that's ever happened and and that does not work for me that line is out you know so you know bless all you poetic passionate people um it's a big deal just push in push in some of the walls are coming down we
can say more about God that we've ever been able to before within the context of Church in the context of worship songs and it's it's really really beautiful and and and and you know there is still very much attention and I mean we live it every day as writers where we're constantly trying to step into each other's lives and be like actually I think that's beautiful but that could hang up the tune you know that could actually and this is where I just want to encourage the community piece of this thing and and I sometimes
I have to you know so weird you know the tension for me in a lot of this is because is because I have I have some fairly good instincts I'm some of them you know I didn't do anything for I was just kind of born with them and some of them have I've just learned a lot doing this I've been writing songs for like 20 plus years and you just learn some things and in helping new writers emerge in that kind of a thing and there's this tension where I'm like I love the creativity I
love some of that and also there's just a time where I'm like no actually you need to kill that line and it's always the line that you're like your personal favorite you know it's always a line where you're really really attached to it and and I mean like actually I think that's hurting you now I think that's gonna hurt the song and so anyway it's dance guys it's dance I don't want to leave you in a troubled place but I really wish we could do Q&A on these kinds of things and it's just not that
not the it's just hard to do you know but um Brian killed it yeah killed it gosh what a thought right I was amazing amazing I don't know what I'm adding to that um Lord just give us language I pray to you give us language seriously give us language God language language to describe you words that just have the power on them I just bless wordsmith people whom given that gift a gift of language yeah release that anointing release that anointing in this room
