James Dooley - How to Make MILLIONS with Rank and Rent SEO

All right everyone welcome back to another sirlinksalot doco podcast we're here today with Mr James douly how are you doing today sir I'm all good thank you very much awesome and how you doing today Nick I cannot complain pretty uh excited about getting to talk to the party master of SEO I've heard all about for all these years I'm excited about meeting you out in uh changai for sure but uh thanks for being on the podcast Really excited about this yeah it's a pleasure to be on um I followed you two guys for quite a

long time and so links a lot so awesome um so yeah if you guys are unfamiliar with James he's the uh CEO of promo SEO uh he's also the founder of fat rank uh he's a self-proclaimed uh digital landlord with 600 or more uh websites under his management and um he's also had big success in the casino and gambling niche as well and uh you Might have also seen him around on a bunch of other podcasts recently because it seems like you've kind of been uh doing the rounds um yeah did I miss anything important

there no youve you've kind of got majority of it in there I own one or two of a service kind of based uh businesses as well but yeah that's that's the hooks and Crooks of what I do and yeah I'm a bit of a podcast slag at the moment so awesome but yeah glad to have you on um So yeah I we really wanted to have you on because uh we actually get a lot of questions in our Facebook group SEO Round Table um as well as on our YouTube channel on our live streams uh

about Rank and rent and I believe Nick has a little bit of experience with Rank and rent but this was quite some time ago and I don't have any experience with it myself I failed that it every single time as well so uh rank to Ren is not my favorite I'm excited to uh hear some Tips and tricks about this and I know our viewers are too yeah for sure we get asked about it a lot and every time we just have to pretty much say yeah we don't really know much about it but here's

the things that we kind of do and what we recommend doing um yeah so it's good to have you on we can kind of fill the knowledge Gap there um but yeah so I guess to start things off could you just brief L describe uh what rank and rent is yeah so U Rank and rent is where you Build a website you rank it and then rent it out so you need to try and find certain industries that you think if you generated leads for that kind of business somebody would want to pay money to

take those leads it's kind of one step further than lead generation um the reason I mean a lot of the time you start out in lead generation and then you kind of move it over to Rank and rent model um the main reason for doing that is because it's predictable income Um so that's kind of why you kind of progress from building out the site doing maybe a cost per lead and then in time moving it to a ranking rent model gotcha um so when when someone rents their website what does that actually mean so

what it is is that um you so what starts to happen naturally is when you build a website and it starts ranking and it's generating inquiries they the the client starts to the the hard Part about lead generation is it's it's almost like doing client SEO um and you've got a client that's ringing you up regularly maybe every other day saying I've just had an inquiry and they've not answered the phone so I don't want to pay for it hi I've just had I've just had an inquiry and it was one of my competitors hi

I've just had an inquiry and it said that it was Mickey Mouse and they're consistently ringing you and that's not obviously all The leads but generally speaking on average across a lot of different Industries around 10 to 20% of leads that you generate online either they don't answer or the're fake inquiries so or or it's someone spamming them saying um do you want to buy some guest posts from us on the on the website and stuff like that so they're like I don't want to pay for these leads and and you're kind of saying you

won't like just tell us what are invalids and will reimburse You any money for the invalids the issue it starts to be is that you need need to have a sales team to run lead generation so when so as you're running um a lead generation team it's difficult because you need a large sales team like I said to run it where a rank and rent model what normally starts to happen is if they're used to paying on average maybe three 4,000 pound a month or5 6,000 pound a month if you was to set a fee

once you want they've been with you for A while to say look on average you pay him £ 5,000 a month what happens if you just do a rank and rent we don't kind of log every single inquiry that happens you just pay a fat a flat fee of 4,000 pound they should be happy because they've been used to paying 5,000 pound a month and and you might say well why would you do that model like why if you earning 5, would you knock it down to four well one you need to give a little

bit of meat on the ball for to make them Think actually do you know what this is a good deal for them but two then it's predictable income for us so we know exactly what's happening they're happy to rent it out we don't need the kind of sales team to keep logging every single inquiry checking whether it's not an invalid or it's a valid kind of inquiry and and it just works better all around they're happier and actually long term we're happier because it's less management involved gotcha so do you Actually um do you just

do you actually like edit in like all their like phone numbers and everything on the website so just contacts them directly or how does it how does it all work so what what we normally do is we'll normally do um like a twio number call rail or invoco which is like where you rent a number it cost like $1 a month to rent the number um it might be a local number to wherever their based so let's say in the UK If You're based in Manchester it's like an 0161 number so you'd go and rent

an 0161 number and then that number then can redirect either to their office or to their mobile number wherever it is that you want to redirect it um you don't really want to be putting their number on just in case something bad was to happen where they stopped trading or something like that and you lost that number and that's on all this kind of citations and directories and stuff like that you've got ownership of the number That way so you but in general yes in time once they've moved to a ranking EV model they've generally

been with us for over 12 months we've got a good trusted relationship with them they're happy and we're happy and at that point they'll be sending us all photos of stuff like job previous jobs that they've done they'll be sending us all the videos of jobs that they might have done and sometimes yeah we can use their address it could be their office address it could be the Warehouse address it could be the director's address so we we can put in a real address on the site a telephone number on the site we can even

put some of their members of staff on like the meet the team page and stuff like that especially if they've got a LinkedIn account or a Twitter account so you kind of tick in all the boxes for eat um these real people behind the site and yeah it works well and obviously they're happy to do it because they know that They're getting exclusivity on the leads so the the clients are are are actually really happy with it because it's a no-brainer for them where they know after a while that they're going to make a return

on investment of the rental of the site because they've worked with us for a long time it's the first six to 12 months it can be tricky like so many people come and contact me and go I tried ranking rent and it didn't work and I'm like you can't just go straight Into ranking event you need to you need to start off by doing SEO maybe even doing display ads to start earning a little bit money off the site then you might progress then into lead generation and then after lead generation then you can move

to rank and rent because someone's not going to if someone doesn't know who you are so let's say um Nick says that he's he's tried a few times to do um Rank and EV if you go straight to the model of do you want to Rent my website for ,000 pound a month and they don't know what traffic level you getting they don't know what type of inquiries you're getting It's A Hard Sell because they don't even know what they're Ting out where if you kind of go down the lead generation model and they've had

the leads they've converted a few of the leads and from there then they're saying yeah this works and you give them an offer that's slightly less than what they've already paying they're Going to go down the route of saying yes we're happy to do that um and then from there then they start to they start to bot more trust in you so they start telling you basically all the juicy keywords because too many people are using sem rush or H revs for doing the keyword research and if you if if you're really Advanced people think

oh well I'll sort the CPC on like cost per click on um payer click and go oh these are the big key words but the truth of the Matter is speaking to the business owner and asking them what they're best at converting and one plumber to the next plumber or one roofer to the next plum Plummer they might be better at converting whether it's flat Roofing or pitched Roofing or slate Roofing or blue Roofing our Brown Roofing our biodiverse Roofing Heritage Roofing within just Roofing these 10 different like sub Industries and subtopics now one of

them might say no we are no good at flat Roofing we only do slight Roofing and this is just one example obviously um so you go down the the kind of rabbit hole of right okay well let's get into doing this and then first down the line you might realize that the Slate Roofing that they're really good at is Heritage roofing for churches and that's kind of how you almost go down the route of we are the church roofing experts it's always a pitched roof it's always slight Roofing churches have generally got good Budget and

then you go oh that's great and and that's kind of when you start speaking to these business owners they're telling you where the money is and then a lot of the time what the stuff that they tell you where it's like like I said Heritage Roofing and stuff like that you look at it in Google search console or when it's coming through or you look at in HBS and it's quite the keyword difficult is relatively easy to go after and and They're telling you that it's a profitable keyword so what what better kind of site

and kind of setup to go after than the stuff that they're saying that they convert well for Goa um so yeah so your basic kind of process is like rank a website um start doing some like lead genen like actually selling the leads then kind of sweeten the deal and turn that into a rank to rent relationship and then after that happens you might act you might you kind of Develop a further partnership with them and might actually start putting more of them like on the website and having more of a back and forth dialogue

with things you can go after and stuff like that is that about right yeah that's that's exactly right I mean further down the line what normally starts to happen as well is I mean we've been doing this for quite a long time so um I don't know many who's got a bigger portfolio than what we have online it's it's only in The UK we don't we don't kind of go outside of the UK um I'd be very surprised if there's anyone in the UK that generates more inquiries than what we do on a week by-

week basis but what starts to happen is some of these business owners then start to want me to get involved as like an investor within the company because actually what starts to have and and this sounds probably your first reaction to this will be it's a good problem to have is we start to Generate them more leads than what they can deal with and you say well oh that's a great problem but the point is it's still a problem because if they're not getting back to these inquiries very quickly I'm getting annoyed because I'm like

I want them to make certain they're getting the most out of the leads to make certain that they're making good profit so if it's taking a while what we can start to do is we also own and I've not really said this on one or two of The podcasts we also own a large call Center so there's times where we could say well look you train us up on I'm just going down the road of Heritage reefing for this podcast for the sake of it so if we're generating inquiries for it you train us up

with the general Spiel of what you need which might be the size some photos and do you have a budget in mind right and just initially start to get that information because that will weed out maybe 50% of the Inquiries that come back that don't that aren't willing to get f you're not willing to get photos they're probably not serious about having it done right they need to try and get some sort of photos even if it's just from a distance I'm not saying go up and climb on the roof and get the photos but

if it was like a a playground or something else go and get some photos go and tell us what it is that you're looking for um is there any anything specific that you've Kind of done research for for what let's say what type of slate Roofing that that it is um come back to us we'll then get all the information and then we change it from like a cold web lead to like a hot lead then because not only have they inquired saying oh they off a price for Heritage reing now they're giving us the

all the information and then we can send it through to the to the clients that way I only really do that when I have some sort of investment in the company And then and then it's almost like a sales generation and we could go one step further and do the quotes if if we felt it was worth it for for us um because you get some of are very good electricians or plumbers or Tac companies and they might not be in the office until the weekend they might be away himself doing some of the installation

but it might be a really good company that we might say well you know what we'll take the inquiries and We'll do the pricing for you but let's let's kind of that at that point it could even be cutting like investment opportunities that we own part of their yeah that's interesting uh what like what percentage of of your portfol of your rank to rent portfolio would you say that you are also an investor of the company ibly say about 3% something like that so not not many um but but what we're in hundreds and hundreds

of niches so there's probably about 20 different Businesses when you look at it that way that I'm involved in as as a direct investor or director the um like we've got one which is um like a road markings company know doing like the double yellow lines and stuff like that um and the reason why we kind of went into that is because it ties in with we do quite a lot of Le generation for road traffic management so like when I got into Road markings they need road traffic management and it kind of cross sells

to Each other so you start you almost like imagine when you build a website and you're looking to build tropical Authority and you have all internal links like a spiders web we've kind of done that offline with businesses like what business can feed another business which can feed another business which can feed another business and that's kind of how we how we started to build it out yeah for for what we do building a little Empire very cool um so yeah Getting getting back to like your kind of your portfolio um can you briefly just

tell us a little bit about the size of your um basically the number of sites that you're renting out right now and also the size of the team that you have behind this so we've got we've got over a thousand websites that we've built I think there's about 12,00 websites in total that we've built out but I think there's about don't I mean to be fair this can vary um I think There's about 850 sites of the 1200 that are actually earning some sort of money whether it's lead generation whether it's ranking rents whether it's

display ads right from that I reckon probably around 650 of ranking rents um so we've been with us for a while 650 with we've agreed a rate I mean some some of them could only be two three 400 pound a month but some of them can be 225,000 month so it completely varies on the Niche and how many inquiries that we're generating for how much it can earn but obviously the the sites that are only earning maybe two 300 pound a month might have only cost us 5,000 to rank it where the ones are 25

or 20 grand or 15 grand a month that might have cost us 200,000 to rank it but still it normally works out because I mean don't get me wrong we we've failed a lot throughout the years um but now I feel like seo's very predictable um I know people might Laugh at that and there's been a lot of updates and stuff like that but especially in local or in certain kind of Industries it it's you build obviously build a good technical site that's not got any errors and it loads pretty fast and it converts and

it's got like all the E8 signals on there build good quality content build topical clusters so You' got topical Authority and build links and if you try and cut one of them corners and don't do one of Them one of them pillars correctly you'll struggle to rank but if you do all of them well you will Rank and what really frustrates me about the industry is how some people go out there in in kind of groups saying you don't need links to build good quality content and then some people that are link Builders like oh

you just cheap out on your content and you right no build good quality content build out topical Authority and build links mainly to the Homepage with like branded and naked URLs but then start it in links to your category pages and your money pages in general we we don't actually do that many links to money Pages that's the last thing of what we hit um but it it's not rocket science and and to be fair everybody's got the blueprint some people want a a knowledge bomb and sometimes I sit there and I say the knowledge

bomb is get your right Sops and good members of staff And start now today start building a side today because actually last time I spoke to you four months ago you're in exactly the same position as you was four months ago and I told you what to do and you didn't start you procrastinated and then you come back to me asking the same questions and at that point I feel it's disrespectful so go and do what I told you to do go and do those four pillars and do it yeah Disrespectful yeah they just don't

want to do it and that's that's the problem it's the corner cutting race right but that's interesting about your uh your link building method as well because that's pretty much uh the exact same method that we preach to people like in our group and stuff uh you know we're always trying to help people just kind of Link building bre uh best practices and we we we preach a lot of homepage building you know category Pages Hub Pages anything that links out to a bunch of stuff you know like pillar content pieces or whatever and then

go and hit like money Pages as well but don't just like spam your money pages right lots of natural anchors too so why did you do that because it yeah it works builds over authority of the side it's safe and you're and you're educating people that's what they need to do and I'm educating people on top of that they need to do good quality content and Topical Authority so why are they not doing it and and the point is because the're cheapap like you you you guys do quality links so you do all the foundational

links you do all the pbms you do the guest posts you do the niche edits right there's no different realistically from I mean there is a little bit with regards to toxic links and trust and stuff like and certain power of what you can get but you guys are an amazing link Vendor right so all that they need to do is write good quality content whether they use Surfer SEO Market moves whether they use on page. a phrase um cleos scope whatever it is that they might want to use for good quality content go and

do good quality content genuinely believe that you've covered that page Topic in its inity then go and do what you guys preach go and get the foundational links to start with to the own page naked you r l and branded Anchors go and get a couple of the pbns to go and get some power through to it go and get a few the guest posts and then shed it to some of the category pages and kind of pillar post that you're doing and then they probably the last one tap a few guest posts directly to

the money pages that are really really relevant kind of what people call like reversing CWI that's super matching up the relevance and that's it and and there's no if someone's watching this And they're like I want a knowledge bomb that yeah just go do everything right like yeah people don't like it they don't they hate this answer they hate you know I think digity might have made this uh phrase but we're in the age of kind of like do all the things in SEO right and people hate that answer they hate it so much they

just want like the the easy answer where you just have to do this and you can save all your time doing Other stuff just you mean I can't just spin content and put up a site in like you know five hours and then have it ranking within a week by spamming it out the rankings for years I do remember those days though yeah it was it was awesome yeah but it's long gone I think for the majority of people um yeah for sure so yeah James um what is like what's like the typical size of

these sites that you're building um I know there's Probably a quite a big like variation but like if you just give us an idea like how many of how many sites are you doing that are like these big like National sites or even International where you just have like tons of location Pages all doing like the same service or whatever versus go on sorry we don't we don't have any um International they're all UK and Ireland what we have um some might be completely National in UK and Ireland So there 4 3,476 Villages towns and

cities in the UK so if you just had one service and you wanted to kind of go after every area in the UK there's over 43,000 pages to go after um majority of kind of companies don't work fully Nationwide so they might work like the uh Scotland and the north of England some might work just within 30 miles of London um so it depends on the client if I'm being honest like if they only want Leads that's within an hour's Drive of them that's kind of what we'll build out so we might build a a

100 location page site some we might build a five 500 location page site there is some that we' built out that have got I think 1.2 million Pages um I'm being 100% honest like do do I struggle to rank every single page yes of course I do like Google's like I need an insane amount of I probably need a d not that Dr Dr can manipulate but like you need like some Sort of dr80 site that's amazing content amazing Silo um new velocity of content being done new velocity of links being done on a consistent

basis to get all them indexed yeah there'll be a lot of juice to pass around even if I can just get 50% of those index and you can use certain ways whether you using like amga index or or you can do like um Mass tweets and you can do certain things like that to try your best to try to get more pages in the index you'll never get Them all in the index but like you said even 50% of the site that's 600,000 pages in the index probably it's probably going to generate you 40 50

inquiries a day if that happens and at that point if you're in a good Niche especially in the finance industry that that alone could be earning you approximately about 80 grand a month nice the um this some this some like I don't really talk about this too much but I'll say it on here we we make a Little we make quite a lot of money on in the finance sector and that's what kind of goes through to the call center so from from there then um whether it's like factoring is quite a good one or

business business loans or mortgages um and what you start finding is when you get really good at Leen and I I was talking about the spiders web if you think if so if you think about this what what person would be looking at their pension would it be a young person or an Old person old person most likely I'm guessing right yeah so we try to then start thinking okay what else might they be looking for the they're probably going to be 55 plus what else might they be looking for and they might also be

looking for something that's called Equity release which is where you're releasing Equity out of your house because you want to go on a really nice cruise and you want to spend Some of your money that you've got in in your house you've worked really hard all your life and you want to get some money out of your house right so when someone inquires for a pension on the thank you page we might also say oh by the way we've got some amazing deals on Equity release I are you interested in this and if they take

yes that's a lead now for my Equity release company as well if they also say would you be interested in um sorting out your will like if you're Getting a will written or lasting power of attorney which is new case called an LPA if they say yes to that I can sell that to a will writing company so next before I know it that one lead I've know and each company's only had it like they've all got exclusive leads but now a pension provider's got a lead an equity release company's got a lead and a

will writing company's got a lead so it kind of ties in I managed to sell fre leads all Exclusive or not even selling it could like you said it could be on the ranking rents and they could be a good client so he's just trying to think of ways like majority of time when you let's say the mortgages when you first get into doing mortgages majority of the time when you get a mortgage especially say you moved in the house with your wife right at that point you might start looking for life insurance because you've

got you're getting a mortgage on Your house and you're saying look if one of us pass away here we want to get the mortgage kind of paid off but if I try and sell you life insurance at any point in your life you're probably like no get away I don't want it but at the time of you're getting a mortgage is probably the best time that you might want life insurance so you do what's called cross- selling or upselling so there's all little things like that and different nuances Like that of what you can do

which isn't just SEO related but it's maximizing the money that you can earn and that's why I think what I think that's why we're good because there's so many people come to me going well can only earn 200 p300 pound a month off that site and I'm like give it to me and I bet I can earn two two grand a month off that side because you're probably just not finding the right customers who's going to deal with it in The correct Manner and give you the Kickbacks that you deserve I feel like we're starting

to get um I feel like we're starting to get like an idea for the scope of your business like it you know when you take 650 sites now and you start factor in this kind of thing it it starts to feel like okay this is going to be a ton of work to to be honest with you though like if if if I recommended someone to do like I wouldn't recommend someone Else to do what I've done like it's not it's not easy you need a massive team um you are you g to have problems

with um staff yes are you going to have problems with um staff ringing in sick on a Monday morning because they've been out all weekend yes are you going to have vas that just leave yes like it's not all kind of rainbows and sunshines you know what I mean like of course you have problems within the business so people just want to hear the high level top Level oh my God you're you're crushing it and you're like yeah but the team have got loads of problems as well like but they don't want to hear about

that they just want to hear about the good stuff so what I would recommend is if someone's happy with earning1 15,000 pound a month go and build five websites right and of them five websites one of them might do well four of them might fail but that one that does well will pay bar out way the the losses of the Four that you've lost you're not going to have a high success rate you're going to fail more times that you do than you do well on so what we did when we was failing back in

our day of entering what we thought might have been a good good kind of industry anything that we was generating leads on that was find that hard to monetize was Chang display ads or we put it in our testing pool for our R&D testing team to say go and play around With that go and break Google go and do whatever you can do push the boundaries on exact match anchors push the boundaries on how many links you can build push the boundaries on no like AI content go and do whatever you want with that site

and if you tank it I'm not bothered come come back with data with how far you manag to get away with it and there times we've got know some display ad sites that are earning 15 grand a month just with AI content just With what what you deem to be spamy kind of backlink profile that have got exact match anchors and stuff like that and you're like how's that even working and then I've got other sites where I've actually tried to do well on it and try to build up my my content velocity and try

to build um good quality content topical Authority and good links and in the in the latest update I've had two sites hit that in my opinion shouldn't be hit Now obviously there's a lot of people go oh my god I've had my sights that have been hit with a penalty I've had two SES hit within the penalty hard probably lost 50% of the traffic and everyone says oh I don't deserve it I don't deserve it I genuinely think I don't deserve it but the worst thing is I've had probably 10 sites jump up and overt

take my two sites that have gone down I've not updated in two years so I'm like they Don't deserve to be out ranking then so in my op latest update has been like don't get me started on that feel yeah chos right now no one no one's too happy with Google these days um man your your business model um for the rank to rent uh thing you've got going reminds me of uh how I got my start in SEO which was working for a company that was rank to rent had you know hundreds of sites

and then a couple call centers but predominantly you know that was all Outbound sales calls which is what I did for that company um but like 500 people uh doing outbound calls is your call center predominantly doing like outbound calls for your these leads that are coming in or um are they taking in calls both um so what will happen is um the call center generally is when an inquiry come we won't do cold calling but when someone inquires we've got kpi set up within the call center we need to ring it within 23 seconds

Um so H there times where for certain industries we've rang up the client pretty much closed the client and sent a quote prior to even the next company even ringing him that's efficient kind of the process is um we don't do cold outbound calls but like I said when they fill in the form we ring them within 23 seconds or sometimes the telephone numbers that are on the website for the inbound calls they'll take them as well and but it's just difficult because Like you said um a 500 person call center I can't think of

anything worse than managing a 500 person call center like we we fluctuate from 90 to maybe 120 in the call center and it's a massive headache dude I couldn't imagine yeah um wrangling in a lot of stuff now mind you this was predominantly doing like Jordan Bell Fort type outbound cold calling all day long right um but still just I feel like uh there's so many variables in managing That many people um you know taking different kinds of leads um Etc that call center all local or some of it you know people in other countries

as well so we've got um an overflow call center in the Philippines um for nighttime kind of shift and then the two kind of we've split up into three eight hour shifts so the nighttime shift um is in the Philippines um the daytime the two daytime shifts are like the early morning till maybe I think it's like 4:00 and then 4:00 till midnight um that's all based near Manchester um it's placed in 11 June um so yeah it's it's all Manchester baseb all UK English speaking um people that are doing those and and to there

it kind of works well because sometimes if you Outsource it to let's say Bangladesh or Philippines or South Africa or Venezuela and stuff like that which are all quite good places to get like virtual assistance then the English they they know that You've shipped it abroad and I feel like you need to have English-speaking people dealing with a UK lead or or Scottish dealing with Scotland and stuff like that um just just the conver just from the date of the conversion rate um just it's just a lot better it's going to increase trust flow I

would think you know for them to think that they're talking to a local person or something like that and that and that Manchester um Center is that something you actually Set up yourself or is it like a call center that's already there and you kind of like contract through it or or something no so we we set it up probably about seven years ago we had um a a f a close friend now um he actually works in a pig f it was it the we called it a pig farm basically it was like a

wooden kind of on a farmers field a w a wooden Hall um we ended up getting like six people in there um and then we just kept building it up but our issue was the Internet access was like ridiculous it was in the middle of a farm so when we're trying to kind of send documents through for like mortgage brokers and bank statements and it were just taking ages on the Wi-Fi and the internet so at that point we needed to like level up and get a bigger size then we got like a 30 person

call center in the center of Manchester I wish she was in the center of Manchester the rent was high for like For big areas and then in 11 June 11 June is like I don't if you if you've ever heard of it it's quite a rough area of Manchester no don't no disrespects to anyone who's from Le Jun like but the um it's it's easy to get to it's not really it's easy for parking so there's not like it's not within um the city center where it's hard for parking it's hard to get to this

traffic and all that so it just made it a lot easier to kind of recruit in that area than it was in the Center of maner and then from there then he's just expanded and expanded we bought the warehouse next door and yeah it's it's grown to a nice that's pretty awesome um and so also speaking of phone calls um what are you guys doing about gmbs or gbps you know Google my business whatever you want to call it um so over the years I've had a lot of problems um with gmbs a lot um

there's so there's so many people out there that oh I can create you a gmbb and stuff like that And then they just get suspended and the the worst part is that we used to mask create gmbs and the issue was that it they only got suspended when they started ranking so you end up spending a lot of money on citations spending a lot of money on whether people do like driving directions filling out all the posts doing all the photos and then it gets suspended and you're just like it's just not for me it's

just not a business model that it it don't entertain me Because I want long-term sustainable rankings I've got staff that I need to keep making certain that we can pay I don't want to wake up one morning and a thousand gmbs have all gone down so we kind of because of that and um I mean we've I I know people that are out there creating the gmbs and they'll obviously fake fake the address and then when Google sends a suspension they'll go and doct to like Photoshop like the address like Bank details and stuff like

that But the issue is it's just BL and fraud and Google actually I don't know if you knew about the lawsuit but like a few someone got done for it and I'm just like I'm a prime candidate for for some for someone like Google to come after where like I just I just don't want that hanging over my heading thinking I'm actually doing something that's fraudulent so if if our clients that take the leads aren't willing to allow us to use their address we just don't Create a GMB for the site yeah where sometimes they

say Yeah by all means we can you can use our address now obviously if they've already got a GMB we won't bother um because we can't have two gmbs at the same location and stuff like that um previously we tried to do it where you do like 25A or 25b and set up like a sweet number and stuff like that but I I just want to do things right and I know it sounds very white at because I came from a bit of a black hat Background and I feel like I've gone very white at

and I'm looking for long-term sustainable kind of rankings and I think Google done a good job at cleaning up the industry if I'm being honest we're we're actually the same way we used to be I think quite a bit more black hat than we are now but uh once you you know start making some money you you want to protect it right you don't want to for sure um so okay so if the client Has the gmbb use the GMB otherwise you're basically just saying okay so much for maps we'll just Bank on you know

organic clicks and and don't get me wrong Chris right the that's probably bad advice because if you can get a gmbb A gmbb can create you a lot of inquiries I'm not I'm not denying that a GMB is not good for a site if you can get a GMB and build that gmbb out out it actually helps the website rank better and if your website's ranking well it helps the G&b rank better so it's not just about like engagement on the g&b the what the website that's connected through to it if that's ranking well the

g&b will rank well so there's a lot of trust signals there if you can get one made I just don't go down the route of Faking It um because it's just going to lead to suspensions and and like you said it can lead to a lot of other issues further on the line that I don't need could you imagine being that guy and getting the Uh you know whatever legal document sent by the world's largest or you know one of the largest corporations in the world be like holy [ __ ] I am I mean

I'm done like what are you gonna do at that point it is it is and fraud is it joh like we all try to do things to like you guys do pbns and trying and and and and thing but and some people go that's illegal it's illegal but it's not actually illegal you me there's nothing illegal in doing Something like that it's frowned upon in the industry but then these same people that thrown Upon A PV and thrown upon buying links and say oh it's against Google guidelines it's illegal it don't mean it's illegal you

know mean upon is fine yeah we we'll do frowned upon we don't do fraud yeah definitely staying away from the illegal side of things um you okay so going back to kind of like more a little bit of an SEO focus on things um and we kind of Talked about this before about just doing all the things for SEO uh but are there any specific strategies that you guys really like to use right now as far as ranking these sites so we build good quality content we try and make certain that we think of every

kind of topic and question that someone might want to know for that product or service that people are doing um might them Pages uh you guys do some I think one or two my different Companies buy quite a lot of links from C links a lot on the like the foundational links and um okay some of the stuff what you do um the I've got like I try not to get too involved in the dayto day of like I've got one or two companies that will buy obviously I'm investor in Searcher but then I've got

another company that says no no I like the foundational links and stuff from from you guys and the pbns and the guest B on it's just like better the Devil the no and like if they've got a process of ordering from you then then let that be so it kind of just goes down the route exactly what you was preaching before build a lot of citations um build a lot of like um trusted branded naked URL links to the homepage start it in a few category pages with some links generally with some pbns maybe one

or two pbms to the homepage as well um start getting some guest po posts throughout the whole site For relevance that's coming through few Niche edits which aren't as relevant but might send more power and Trust through the site it's hard to really line up relevance on a niche edit or link insur stuff like that and a lot of time that's enough um if it's not you probably need to write more articles for more topical Authority and build more links um and that's kind of how it works and and there's no secret apart from that

um we I mean something that that we do like One or two little tricks of what we do is we try and make certain I'm sure you've heard of like parasite SEO we try to make certain that our guest posts all of our guest posts we kind of treat as parasite SEO so we try to rank Our Guest posts for the keywords that we want our money site to rank for so that in an ideal world for me I want us to rank number one and I want our guest post to rank number two for

the keyword that we want to go after and what better way of Getting traffic from let's say the position number two which goes back to position number one do you know what I mean it's that's kind of how we do it um we do quite a lot of tier tws okay to to I guess posts what do you like to use for tier two we've actually got our own network in Searcher um so we've got a lot of um like old pbns and like Niche edits so we might have like certain relationships with um a

lot of blog owners that might turn around and say Right okay if you're going to buy x amount of guest posts from us like and if you're going to buy x amount of guest posts we allow x amount of Niche edits so we with the the niche edits sorry the guest post the tier 2 sorry that we get we're only selling at $20 each and it's for a niche edit now even being 100% honest some of them are buying them for money sites as well um because they're actually they're actually pretty good they do but

um yeah Tier tws that work pretty well um and and I only really T I only really tear them to the guest posts um but I'm sure your guy P your your pbns would work an amazing way for powering up with the guest posts if if you're not selling many of them I'd start recommend to your clients and saying if someone's paying quite a lot on the guest posts get them powered up because might hi the 50 but if the if the internal linking to it is not great then the page level is not Very

strong so start tapping a few tier tws through to that um and yeah that's that's generally it there's no massive knowledge bombs in that apart from so something else that we might that we try to do is if we've got an author on the site or a name on the meet the team page we try to make certain in the guest post that we'll be mentioning them as well so if ever someone like a Google quality quity R guideline a Google quality RoR came to look at the site and Google the Name of the auor

with the topic or the indust these articles would be showing up saying oh these are an expert in Heritage roof do you know what I mean and then obviously to some uh expertise out there because I know the quality Raiders actually do that they'll search for your name and then look around to see where you're mentioned and stuff so that's that's a good idea I don't they'll search for let's say Nick timore minus sir links alot.com go um then Obviously then links so they kind of say what where on the internet now obviously for links

it doesn't it's not really an area that eaat is a big thing but let's say it's to do with Finance they might come along and say something like Nick timore um FCA minus nickf finance.com if that's your website and see where where on the internet are you are people saying that you're an expert that's not on your website and and do you have a brand SE For it and if you don't well we might not trust your your articles that you're writing about Finance because realistically probably would have an FCA license which an FCA profile

and you'd have certain other kind of people talking about you or and stuff like that so that's something else that if I'm being honest with you about up until about 12 months ago um I thought eat was like a myth I thought it was one of them things that was going throughout the Industry same with disos um I thought disos and eat was a myth for many many years and it was one of them that I'd love to go out and say ah you're talking so much garbage it's not even a thing until no that

they like businesses now that are bought so I love I love kind of getting my teeth into website recovery quite a lot and we get still to this day and I don't know who have you know this or you don't um there's probably two or three manual Action Link penalties that Still happen today um I Heard Kyle Ruth the other day talking on um with Gail Britain and he was like when the last time you heard a manual Action Link penalty and I was like K Kyle like there's several every week that's still happening now

to this day it's not they not stopped it but we haven't seen one in a while actually yeah in it's been quite a while you know we haven't had at least we haven't any like any clients complain or anyone in our like manag Link building program orever generally speaking it's in the finance industry money or life industry or actually quite a lot of them is in Google news so if you got like a big Google news site um the only reason why I start to know about it now is we actually got hit I think

it was about four and a half years ago with a manual action penalty and I didn't have a clue like what to do so it's in Google search console they've emailed you you've got a manual action Penalty what' you do oh you need to do a reconsideration request right okay who does this um who's the Godfather of this of those who's the main guy in the world that can get me out of this cuz I was earning the site was earning like 40 Grand a month at the time and everybody all fingers pointed to Rick

Lomas he like Rick laas God he's unbelievable he's God of it so I went and met him he's from the UK so I went and met him and he basically started to say look I'm Looking to wind down I'm looking to like semi retire obviously I'll do the diso for you and I'm like mate train me up like I buy so many links just for me knowing what a good link looks like train me up cuz I never at that time I didn't I didn't use trust and I didn't use toxicity all that I thought

was if I get a highd with traffic and with with relevance I've got the whole Grail of Link building until he starts talking to me about trust and toxicity and at that Point I'm like I don't even know what you mean like you're talking Goble the go to me and then I got trained up on it and then from there I was like oh and now we do all of Rick's disos now so because he's he's like The Godfather of Link manual kind of action penalties we now do the Fulfillment for Rick and Rick's a

great guy he's kind of more than semi retired he's almost retired now um but because we're seos we do our best and sometimes for About a year mean Rick was banging heads each I don't want to diso this link it's got trust and it's got power and it's ID and it's relevant and it's a branded anchor text and he's like but it's toxic and we kind of know I don't feel were as as aggressive as what Rick Lomas was M but we get them out of the penalty but we still try and keep as many

of the high powerered high trust links that's pointing through to the site and then same with eat I don't know if you ever Heard of an alpha transparency penalty you ever heard of that no so we had a Google new site um and it was doing really well it kept getting Google Discovery um bam manual action penalty and this is this is recent this is like maybe three months ago manual AC I'm like oh god I've got a link penalty well clicked onto it auor transparency penalty I was like what even is this and then

I went through it and it's literally I can send you through the um The image of it from Google search console all for transparency penalty and I've only ever known now anybody in the finance your money your life and um the Google News set to get him at present but I'm being told that and and you don't know but I'm being told they're going to be rolling out algorithmically a little bit more so from that I've just now started to set up an eat SEO kind of brand and You know what it's just ticking the

boxes like it for the sake of when you're building out of site build an about us page and meet the team page have a telephone number on there have an email address on there where someone if someone wants to complain about your site about something they can get hold of you try not to hide the content page do you know what I mean like just have a privacy policy cookie policy just again and I know it sounds very Blas but just Do all things right just do what a real business would do um that's the

same exact thing we tell people just like do what a normal business would do try not to be sketchy don't cut Corners I mean like you know if a regular business is doing it go ahead and set it up like a regular business but for you guys it could work for sir links a lot it could work amazing because realistically you could start almost selling eat link building because if you start to like You said mention the author in the guest post you're saying it's an eat link building service do you know what I mean

it's a good idea really you should be doing it I like that do it you should do it 100% you should do it because then you're tiing like why waste so many people build a guest post right and all right they might line up the relevance but they're wasting so many things like why not on that guest post get an image embed get a video embed mention the nap Listing and mention the author like they still only getting one do follow contextual link to the site but actually having an image embed and a video embed

helps it indexing better as well it's got a chance of that then um ranking in Google images and Google videos of that guest post getting that little bit more traffic so all those little minor wins the long term is what's going to stand you in good stad for sure for sure watch now so links a lot e l yeah newest Newest product we we'll see if we're first to Market so that that's a good idea yeah thanks for the hot tip man for sure um so back back to rank to rent a little bit um

what like so how you know we talked about you know you build the site you rank the site you start getting leads you start selling leads how are you finding your clients to sell these leads to initially like how how are you finding them initially yeah so initially let's say again we'll just CH the Heritage Roofing it doesn't matter what industry is but Heritage Roofing um we find that okay oh let's say just Roofing in general because so we might not know Heritage Roofing yet is good so you go and build a roofing website and

generally speaking what you do is you go out to every single person on the internet that is paying for PPC for anything to do with Roofing you go on to Yellow Pages anyone who's paying for um like Yellow Pages premium advertising You go and check a trade and anyone who's pain to be part of that directory anyone in any newspaper that's kind of doing any sort of ads if you listen to someone on the radio and you hear that they're doing anything to do with Roofing you go and find any company that's paying some money

for advertising and you contact them saying we can generate your reefing leads right and on that website you might have 30 different companies right but you're not you're Not promising any of one of them exclusive leads you're just saying we might be able to generate you leads for re are you interested for completely for free all what we ask you to do you don't pay anything for the leads once you if it's one of our leads add 5% on top of your price for us right are you still going to be competitive if you do

that they go yeah not a problem so you're going right okay so if it's a 10 grand job just going at 10,500 pound Majority time that's not going to lose them the job and if they win it the one that wins it we get 500 pound from what it actually starts to tell you is the ones that win it and give you the quid are the best at converting the leads because they're the one that's converted it so at that point now you're not testing you're not like well how do you know the company's good

at conversion well you don't know the good at conversion until you start to realize Who's won the job do you get what I mean so like at that point some of them start becoming annoyed because you're going oh you're sending it to 30 companies and you go yeah I know we are like I never told you get exclusive leads and those that are going oh but they're cheaper than us right the you just me 500 quid commission you didn't pay me anything so I'd sooner go to someone that's going to win more work complaining about

your free leads yeah that's the problem I Kept running into was uh you know you'd send them leads but then I don't know depending on the type of bluecollar worker especially that I was working with they'd be like oh well you know I don't know and blah blah blah and it's like well you know if I can't talk rational sense and data with you then you know it's not going to work out eventually yeah yeah yeah um you need to kiss a lot of frogs to find your princess you know so sure you just got

To go out and have a broad like the ones that realistically this is what normally happens you sent out to 30 15 of them come ringing you up going Jer me off you sent it out to Lord and you switch him off right the other 15 maybe 10 out of them 15 have created a Google sheet that have logged every single inquiry that's come in and told you where the leads up to and what commission that they had on and you go these are the companies I Want to work with right and they're not every

there's not every company out there that do that they're the ones that you want to work with the ones that log every inquiry and tell you where they're up to not that I want to go and sit in every single Google sheet to find out where people are up to or not but you want them to have some sort of system that you know that they're tracking it end to end from inquir coming into the sources us and what commission that Added on and at that point you go I like these I can TR these

and that's when then further down the line they start to trust you a little bit more they win a few jobs they probably made some good profit off it and then from that generic Roofing website you then can start going down the road of saying right that's a website that just is just Roofing what is it that you do that you're really good at it's like someone coming to you and um selling your digital marketing Leads and loads of people are coming through to you that are wanting um PPC Facebook ads and web design and

you kind of well it's not really what we do we do links yeah right so then you build a website that's SEO but then they're wanting loads of content being written and you're oh it's not really what I do it's so like you kind of start on digital marketing then it might move to SEO and then you actually start realizing actually no it's just links It's not even content and parts of SEO it's just links that we want and then when you build a website on that they're converting them exactly as they should be converting

them because it's exactly what they want and and that's why you've kind of but is there any way of finding that using semrush or H RS No like is there any quick wins that you can do like youed be able to throw up a 500 paid site no like it's sad work I'm not I'm not going to tell you that it's easy Because it's not but it's all it's awesome the filter that you've got set up essentially because then you like you said you are finding these very serious openminded kind of Broad View business people

that are willing to uh you know do these exercises that you need to see if it's going to be symbiotic um and then eventually you know if you can take over part of that company and help grow it um you know that's that's awesome um because you filtered out all the all the Junk so something that I would say and I've said this on a few different podcast and I think it's very very very important is I now know and there's a little bit of a problem where I've got to make certain internal my staff

know this and I've got to keep trying to instill into them that um with a lot of power becomes a lot of responsibility and we've got certain websites out there where some of them Might be renting like you said let's call it 25 Grand the month is on the upward side some that maybe do slightly more but generally speaking let's say it's 15 to 25 Grand on on the higher end those clients might have grown from two vans on the road to 25 vans on the road right that now means that they've got 60 members

of staff on the road in in installation teams that if I stop their inquiries there's potentially 60 Families that might not be able to pay the mortgage next month yeah right so at that point it becomes a little bit scary because you stand stting to go right I need to make certain that I don't get hit with an argm up they you know I mean but the um but the big the biggest part actually is making certain that my staff that are managing them sites don't get a phone call from the biggest competitor down the

road and say I know that or they might say how much Is um Chris renting your site for or or all these leads are going through to Chris Roofing and you you go yeah and they go they're paying 15 round a month and they go I'll give you 20% extra I give you 18 round a month we can't just switch them off because that's not fair because they've built the business with us we've built a business with them we've got relationships with them long-term relationships like we could like there's not we not got a contract

To say it's this is it they own the site we own the site and at any point I could switch them off and I could say no that's it you're being switched off and I just worry sometimes and I don't because it's like I make certain that they wouldn't do it but could a member of Staff who gets Commission on what the sites earn would they want to earn an extra three grand a month cost it so for that I've got to make make certain that they're doing Stuff with honest trust and integrity and and

again it's a good problem for me to sit on and have but it's still a problem and I've still got to make certain that the culture within the company is the right they doing the right thing um and it's not the right thing isn't always the most profitable thing um so that's something else to take on that again it's like people might not be able to scale it like what we've scaled it um but it All I do is if you do start doing it I'd like people to learn just make certain you do things

right because PE things can come back to haunt you live over down the line like I'm a big believer in karma and stuff like that and just I I hate like I hate it when I hear people kind of mugging somebody else off or hate it when someone has done something to to like earn a lot of money out of someone and Rog them in somewhere sh and just I know I'm going off subject now From SEO but I think it's very important yeah I don't know if it is going off subject I mean I

remember getting my start and having to go through all these different um you know situations like that where it's like I mean I lost a fortune trying to figure out how you know SEO works and then comparative to you know what we talked about earlier in this podcast it's like the principles are pretty simple um it's all this confusion that's out there on purpose uh So that people can suck money out of other people um you know that are creating these negative effects yeah yeah yeah for sure for sure um yeah so in the in

the in the interest of not keeping you here all night I'm sure it's probably getting kind of late over there I'm not really sure where you're at but I'm assuming you're in the UK right now um yeah do you see do you see any problems you know we're talking about problems do you see any kind of like big Problems for the ranking rent kind of business model moving forward um or or is it just kind of usual SEO stuff you know just trying not to get hit by algo updates so my my question back to

you on that would be um yeah this potential um issues where certain websites can take over you but then you just reverse engineer why that's happened it's the same with affiliate it's the same with e-commerce um Drop Shipping whatever industry that you're in are things going To change yes absolutely are things going to change with AI yes absolutely have you got to adapt yes absolutely like but it's just part of SEO like if if anyone thinks that growth is linear that you need to get out the industry ASAP because you if you want to get

from here to here it's not one straight line that goes hey kind of like this and there's going to be PS and DRS and and yes like and Nick mentioned before you could us be Able to roll up a site a 500 paid site quite easily spin the content do a bit of GSA SEO nuke money robot SE your pilot and just Spam it and Bam you ranking within a week and can't do that anymore you can't do it but things change and you just got to keep adapting to what the changes are they might

put more emphasis on gmbs and then then I might have to get more involved in gmbs they might put more emphasis on links and then I need to get More links they might put more emphasis on tropical Authority then I need to do more topical Authority but the truth of the matter is if my site drops they're going to have to replace it with another site that's better and what other site out there is better than mine and and if a find another site that takes over me I'm going to get back in the trenches

and find out why they've overtaken me and go and do everything I Can to overtake them so and and I'd love to have a fight with anyone on on the on the work treadmill I don't think Abby be like I will work 23 hours a day for he do seven days a week so there's that but yeah I mean you've got sge that you could start saying is that going to take stuff away I don't think it will from lead generation it might where a lot of people I think are going to get hit hard

um is when SG fully rolls out all the People that make money by doing display ads I think are going to get hit hard with how much earnings they're going to make because I think a lot of the sites they're high traffic sites because they're informational terms and I think those informational terms are going to be answered by AI within um sge so I think those people need to start looking at alternative ways of money um but some of these people that are sat on these display ad sites that are doing two Million clicks a

month not mean money I'd love to manage some of them sites because you could put lead gen there's so many different ways that you could earn money from it you could put affiliate on it you could put lead gen on it obviously display ads on it and just tency on there there's so many other ways of monetizing that you could rent out the um the pixel to someone like the Facebook for retargeting pixels there like there's amount of ways of Monetizing a site like I think we I think there's a 17o checklist that we have

for how to monetize a site right and people just do display ads and put eoic or ad FR or medine on it and go ah I'm earning money and you're like there's so many other ways the traffic that you're getting that you could do to monetize that in a better way so yes the answer is I do worry for certain industries um do I worry I I'm not losing any sleep at night because Anything that does change then I need to adapt my strategy and that's what I've always done in the last 12 13 years

an SEO that sticks around right you got to adapt um actually lied though I've got one more question for you uh besides working 23 hours a day what's your secret to scaling your rank and rent Empire um I I couldn't do anything of what I do like I definitely don't work 23 hours a day um I've got two kids now so um I want to be I want to be super Successful and I want to keep growing um in work but I also want to be the best dad in the world so I want to

make certain that I can switch off when I get home I normally get up at 5:00 in the morning go to the office smash out as much work as I can I normally start getting distracted from about 10 o'clock um with like staff coming in the office and all the rest of it they're coming earlier but my first four hours I feel like I've got Flow State work done and I Get all my work done then then I'm just speaking to the team and seeing how everybody is in the office who like are all my

like middle managers which have all got like vas and stuff working for them and graphic designers and videographers and stuff like that um go to the gym at midday and then I try and spend time and switch off between like three and seven every day going on bike rides and stuff with the kids but how how have I managed to scale it is Previously just onboarded brilliant stuff that you elevate that you train up that you spend time with and you have really really really concise Sops so the two best things that we've got within

the business is we've got an R&D testing team so if someone turns around to me if you came to me and says pbms are working better than ever I'd be like thank you very much Chris for that information I'll go and test it and I Won't just go and rehash what you've just said going to everybody else pbn's work amazing I'd go and test it and check and I probably already got the test dat anyway because we we do some stuff with pbn's um but then you might say something else and again I go and

test it so that's one part that's good and the other part is we employ two members of staff and all what they do is work through the Sops anyone doesn't know like standard operating procedures Like stepbystep processes of like how to order this how to how to order this how to do a Content brief how to do keyword research just all the basics of every step and I think there 118 Sops that we have and each one might have maybe 30 40 steps right from how to look for a domain how to buy a domain

how to host a domain how to set up the site and to everything now they don't all do that they only do elements of let's say building it and stuff but Build get good quality staff train them up and good quality Sops and make certain that they're concise majority of Sops I look at they'll do a 45 minute video that could have been four minutes and just make them concise make the step step by steps and we we two members of Staff just go through the Sops and make them as concise as possible can that

18st step checklist become a 12 step checklist or an 11 Step checklist just make it really concise Straight to the point no no fluff straight in and then have like a loom video underneath it showing the steps of this is how you do it and do I want that if if it's a two-minute video if it can be 90 seconds redo it I want it 90 seconds because that video is going to get watched hundreds of times and that saving 30 seconds times 100 people watching it it's well worth kind of make it as concise

as it can be so just Brilliant staff like I'm nothing without my staff around me um I know that they know that I know that and my kind of role my main role now is probably being a cultural architect in the business um in just keeping them happy and um a lot of them like I've got six apprentic that started and I think they started on and bear in mind these are in the UK they started on 500 a month which is like way below minimum wage but that's what the apprenticeship wage was and it's

like an Alternative to people going to like University and they had no experience whatsoever and now them six people that are apprentices are all directors of the company they're all now they earn more money now off commissions than they do off the actual wage that they get and they're on a good wage as well and and my kind of Ro always I want each one of them to be as successful as they can be and they can grow to have their own Empire um and they're on the way of Building out their own mini Empires

and they're happy and it makes me happy seeing their growth awesome man good stuff um yeah so I guess we'll go ahead and wrap things up there um it's been awesome thanks for coming to talk to us about Rank and rent I feel like you know it's been quite educational uh for me and I'm sure for for Nick as well um yeah what are your what are your next plans for the year so are you are you planning on kind of extending the uh the Podcast circuit into a speaking circuit are you going to be

around any um events I'm I'm I always attend all the events um I prefer the masterminds than the actual talks um if I'm being honest I I don't like I I I prefer interacting with people I quite like the podcast more than what I thought I would um because you can go down a rabbit hole of speaking about something specific that you might want to know or want to get into where if you're up on stage and you Just got a a fixed talk and that audience don't really want to know what that talks about

or they might have certain questions and want you to divert that way as opposed to going that way and you don't know how advanced the the the kind of the crowd are there's been times where I've known some people going do a talk and they've had a stand Innovation and they've gone and done the exact same talk at another venue and they've been booed off stage because They're like it just matters you need to adapt with with who's there sometimes you don't know who's in the crowd um does it need to be like a white

like if you go to Bright SEO it's got to be like a white at type they don't like you're hearing about buying links if you guys turned up there you'd get booted that makes me want to go yeah yeah yeah so I love I love doing the masterminds I quite like doing the podcasts I want to build up a bit of a Personal brand um just because I think as AI is growing I think personal branding is going to become more and more important so that the main reason why I want to do it um

and yeah I might do one or two q&as on stage but I'd never do just an outline of just going up and doing a talk um I have nothing really to sell as well quite a lot of people get up on stage and they're trying to sell something like none of these podcasts I'm not trying to sell Anything to to people I'm trying to help others do well I want others I want to elevate others to be more successful um I make nothing from apart from more competition by telling people that ranking mans a good

business model yeah you've given a lot of uh very direct advice on some of the niches you're in ETC so um yeah but you know I would highly advise anybody watching this not to go up against the famous James Dy he will whoop your ass more than Likely all right James um yeah we look forward to seeing you out at changai and yeah I guess to leave things off uh where can people find you or is there anything at all you want to plug or yeah working people will follow you or whatever so I'm on

um james.com U it's probably the easiest way so from there then you can find all my social profiles like Twitter Instagram Facebook um I'm going to start doing quite a bit more on YouTube um with you guys to like making Some shorts out of this kind of podcast and stuff on any other podcasts I'm more about trying to create the shorts than doing the long form videos um just I think I think people nowadays they're very they want to listen to something for 30 seconds and then go so Way of the World exactly um that's

kind of where where I'm going to be on I'm going to be a bit more active on social media and stuff I've always tried to keep myself to myself from a business standpoint but Yeah with my personal BR then I need to talk a little bit more awesome that's probably why people aren't getting stuff done anymore is they've got that 30 a minute or 30 second you know uh attention span in the morning while they're doing their morning routine and they're like oh man learned so much today let me go do whatever now awesome well

good luck with your uh personal branding uh Blitz or whatever you want to call it and yeah we'll see You out at changai man thanks for coming yeah yeah see you out in changai sounds good cheers hey everyone thanks for watching be sure to check the links below for more info on this topic as well as other cool stuff like SEO case studies our Facebook community and our link Building Services and like always please like comment and subscribe if you enjoyed the video thanks and happy [Music] Ranking