Why Creativity Thrives on Challenges | Jon M. Chu | TED

Hi John hey everybody hey Whitney how you doing good how are you very good it's amazing to see people from all around the world yeah it's very fun keep those coming guys I think it's always exciting to sort of check out how people are coming here in the middle of the night to be part of these conversations which is really cool um I just dropped off my kids I have four kids 7 five three and one I have another one on the Way so dropping them off at school then coming here to talk to the

world is pretty pretty mindblowing oh my goodness well congratulations um on on that and and also on on all the other things so beyond just so tired all the time tired from family life it sounds like and then also from what we hear you have lots of other things happening professionally that will are probably also making you very tired it seems like it's been a very exciting Year from you for you from Your Memoir coming out um and the first installment of wicked so so far how would you say 202 before has stacked up and

how are you feeling as you round the corner on the end of the year um I feel very focused um with a new baby coming uh and and working on Wicked and feeling the pressure feeling all the fans wanting certain things and what we need from a movie you know this Cinema as just a um as just the business itself and uh the election and there's Just so much but I um but I feel very focused I feel like I know what I need to do I'm trying not to get distracted and just focus on

getting the work done so I can deliver uh a movie that says something relevant but is entertaining and fun and crazy and has big musical numbers um and people can take something for the end of the year um and celebrate with and share and all those things well um I'm excited for that and I'm excited for us to get into all of that uh during This conversation and I thought maybe we could start actually with your book which in a lot of ways feels like a nice sort of prequel to to the the film um

you you've obviously accomplished so much already in your career um but it's really clear that you're you're just getting started so why did you why did you decide to write this book right now well I felt like especially during the pandemic there was sort of a a shift in me um as alab would say and wicked uh Something has changed within me something's not the same and I realized that it wasn't just me it was I I felt like the whole world was feeling this sort of discomfort with who they are or what what what

they got comfortable with and um and so we I started working with Jerry M mcarter my um co-writer on this and talking about uh because there was a lot of things converging technology and culture and identity and entertainment And data it was all colliding and so I felt like oh wait I I grew up in the Silicon Valley in pal and came to LA to escape it to do entertainment and I was finding my cultureal identity crisis and and all this stuff was all colliding and I was in a very unique position to tell what

it felt like to be on the front lines during this change and there's a lot more younger generation and people who are older who are going through this similar thing right now so I wanted a Manual that I wish I had going through uh when I was chasing my biggest most ambitious dreams and what the ups and downs would come with that um so hopefully this guides a little bit or gives you a little comfort in your journey um from whatever you're chasing or if you're in the middle of your Chase to just keep going

well I mean I was surprised in reading the book to see that it is it's so much more than just like a telling of Your life story and and even Beyond just this how to guide for nurturing creativity and navigating Hollywood I was um surprised to find that it's also in many ways a leadership book um and I think above all else it feels like a love letter to so many people and and places um and I want to sort of I guess break down each each part of that so um if if we could

talk I guess about the leadership book part of it um throughout you have sort of these little uh Sidebars where you offer insights into how you think about life and creativity um and I'm not a Hollywood director and I I found myself writing down a lot of little nuggets for for myself to to come to later that things like creativity thrives on obstacles and um I'm just curious if your intention was for people to gain sort of these like actionable tips from your own experience you mentioned sort of a guide but very specific things that

they could write Down and turn to later yeah I think some of my the biggest lessons of my life have been from actually making movies or trying to get an idea from nothing into a reality of something and not just on my own because making movies isn't a a singular person's Journey uh it is I have hundreds of people that I have to um communicate with and be comfortable communicating with and be comfortable uh leading in certain ways and and finding how to use their creativity and their Storytelling skills to build because I think the

magic of movies is when we create something that neither of us could um create separately that we had to find each other to build together so it sort of came naturally in the storytelling of it I grew up in a big family I'm the youngest of five and my parents have a Chinese restaurant in the Bay Area called Shep Chu and um it's still there 53 years later and um I watched their leadership I watched them Not just lead it wasn't just running a business my dad and my mom uh and not just running our

family which was a whole thing in itself but it was uh also leading a community in the 80s um and for them in the 70s um when they started this restaurant as one of the first Chinese families in this community maybe the first Chinese family that a lot of people in the community would meet um and eat food at and um and host and so I just think I just watched them a lot and I think those are the skill sets that I found that were the most compelling to to keep me going um I

guess through my through my journey and I I feel like as I mentioned for for me definitely and I think there's so many things that are will be relatable for people no matter where they are um in their in their Journey or what sort of work they do which is uh really cool and I think one of the hardest ones of that is like you know leading is not glamorous we're not On the red carpet most of the time I'm not doing uh you know interviews most of the time I'm usually alone in the dark

in my room or in this um edit Suite with my editor or on set and everyone's Whispering behind your back about oh what decision you just made or an actor doesn't agree with the thing or they're saying something that you can't seems like good idea but that's not the way you planned it it's like all those little struggles um also wanted to put In the book just to make sure that you knew that when you're going through your day it doesn't feel glamorous it doesn't but that's actually the job that the the secret is that

it's like not actually magic it's grit and survival and moving forward um and getting through so um I hopefully those little stories also help get people through those things it's really a treasure Trove of dos and don'ts um and I feel like also acknowledged how in many ways your story Is is very much just your own and singular and and and unique um so I'm curious what you hope young creatives get from reading the book well when I got first got into the business I had just come out of college so I was really um

I felt very lucky you know Steph Spielberg saw my short film and I got all these like Hollywood deals um but I actually hadn't I didn't make a movie for five years or six years until I got my first movie but and I think those Years are very um uh I think those are hard and when you get through that you know when you won the lottery when you're like got get lucky and are starting in your business most of the time I I think a lot of people feel the impostor syndrome I felt even

more so like oh I just I got really really lucky and so you try to keep buying more lottery tickets but but actually you need to spend that time learning the craft that you are that you that that You've been rewarded for the potential of having and um that took some time to realize for myself of like oh no I need to uh I need to learn this craft and and and actually there's there's a good and bad part of it I felt like I needed to prove myself and proving yourself can be a motivating

factor and I still feel like that on on days but there was a certain point after 10 years of doing that after doing seven movies doing many red carpets doing many interviews um That I still didn't feel good enough um but I remember making now you see me too and I was on set with all these great actors Woody harelson and Michael Kane and Morgan Freeman and Mark Ruffalo and and I could almost feel hitting those 10,000 hours like it there was just like a surrender like I did I was work these great people were

amazing and I felt like oh I can hang with them and I remember that that switch that light bulb switch in my head of being Like then why am I here right now like what am what am I contributing to this movie that only I can do and what do I actually want to say with this and it and I didn't have a full answer and I think that that completely shifted of okay what am I what do I want to say if I actually do belong here if I am a filmmaker like I finally

can call myself an artist and not wait for someone else to call me that I can call myself a Storyteller I can call myself a director Then what is it that you really want to say and do and that was that that woke me up and that was one of the hardest things to do because it's not just about like oh I'm proud of myself I know who I am of course you know who you are and you can go do your thing but like to to Really find who you are you have to put

yourself through the fire you have to actually like go to your wounds and go to the thing that scares you most and confront that first and if you're an Artist that means maybe doing it publicly as well and that that that is terrifying um so that's almost where the Journey Begins um not where it ends interesting at the at that 10,000 hour moment is when you feel like it starts to get it gets exciting um yeah yeah and and you you suggested this just a moment ago that um the book is really uh talking so

deeply about failure and sort of thinking about survival and and you see in the in the book sort of how your Thoughts about this evolve um and I'm curious how how your thinking of this has changed and how you Embrace faure now that you have been through the fire as you say yeah I mean I look back at like my young younger self starting in the business I look at myself even just like seven years ago and I have empathy for that person still because I've changed a lot in those seven years I mean kids

will change you immediately But I have empathy for that person because I felt a long time I felt guilty for not complaining you know I was taught in my family never complain never complain you just do your work that's what my parents as immigrants who came to this country they're like America's the greatest place but you got to just like fit in and and and and do hard work and you will accomplish anything you want and I believe that fully and I'm so glad I got taught that because I that's What I did never complain

and I think that gave me a lot of advantages that I didn't have to be um I wasn't chained down by uh resentment or anger I just I actually believe that I could just keep doing this and I but I don't blame that kid for feeling that because when you're not in a position of power it is hard to complain because you have no power to complain no one listens to you anyway and so I have empathy for that that and I'm glad that I kept going as that person now as a um a little

further down that Journey um when you have power I think that's also the other switch that changes is like wait I couldn't complain then but I need to complain now and not just complain but do stuff to change it um I'm in a position where um you're you have a privilege to to to speak out and and make action and so that that's where and that's a hard Thing to take on because it's scary and it's a lot of responsibility and you know you're going on the front lines and are going to get attacked but

you're just going to go do it and so when I think of my journey in those sort sort of chapters I find a great privilege to be on the front lines I find great gratitude to be trying to make change at this moment in our culture and history when we're all trying to find our story I feel like we've taken down the mystery Of the author everyone's a Creator so who are we as a people as as America as the world what do we stand for what have we what mistakes have we made and and

what is the new story and so and I'm a Storyteller at this moment and so I I and I've gone through some and so I feel very privileged to be here and to do that stuff and um it's not easy but I but I so I guess when you're asking about failures and stuff I I I feel like this is the line of work we're in this Is this is the service we've decided to take and um and we're all going to learn together and so let's like link arms and and go that's the only

way I can think to honesty to think to you know I don't write about this stuff I don't it's just we are creators so the only thing we can do is just keep creating and hopefully there's other people in this community that can change certain laws or make certain other things changes and and or Journalists that write about and do and put it out into the spotlight for the world to see but for us we make and so that's why I try to stay focused on I mean and I think what's really compelling to this

idea of like people from different spaces who can also contribute in in in different in some of the ways you're you're describing is that in the book you sort of make this parallel between your own story and the story of your parents who are not in Entertainment industry and are in the restaurant business the hospitality industry and and how they sort of experience some of these same you know you talk about their failures and their triumphs and how it fueled them um and and I so I think you know one thing too that's also interesting

about this book is the you you end your Ted Talk um notably with love is the most important thing we can give to this planet and um the book is is very much a love letter To many things to technology Silicon Valley Steve Jobs film making and I think above all your your family and and your your parents um and so I'm curious to hear a little bit from you also about how you think about love um and the way that it influences the work you do how does it f how did it factor into

writing the book uh let's maybe start there yeah um I mean love is as we all know like the most powerful thing I think it's way More powerful than hate and we're in a world where there's a lot of pessimism and a lot of hate because that's easy it's easy love is harder and I again I feel very privileged to have grown up in a family with with a lot of love so I know the value of that um and so Hollywood is also a very cynical place um but also movies stories are are what

set the vision are what set the Horizon for all of us it's what's what what inspired me to go into storytelling it's Why we go to Disneyland frankly it reminds us of our child reminds us of a time it's it's why we drink a Coke because we had a Coke when we were in the garage with our moms or dads or whoever like I think that that that love is in every single story because it is it is the it is the conduit for which we connect to others and so um I think I got

into the storytelling business because I had an abundance of Love given to me and I Felt um maybe my cup runthe and it doesn't mean that I didn't evolve through that but I think that was the most pure moment I also felt like I found the camera and the camera helped hide me too um because uh it's a mask you know everyone loves you when you have a camera in your hand everyone wants to invite you over if you uh and and and and get interview or whatever like it it it gave me a reason

to talk to people and an easy way to to to to to Get into it but I think when I look back at um where I'm at and my family I think that [Music] um I've learned a lot about how difficult love can be even to my family especially writing about my family because my family can be frustrating at the same time um but I think writing this book helped me one understand that I can't change I Can't change my parents as many of us know that I've tried many times I've tried to clean the

garage and it always gets messy again I tried to make them remember their Wi-Fi password they'll never remember it so I'll remember it for them fine fine fine but I think I have a lot of um learning about their Journey gave me so much love extra love for them because leaving a country to come over to another country for with nothing to Start a family to give us every opportunity and to let us go run away and be storytellers like that is so Rockstar and so courageous I know now with kids I don't know if

I could do that I could not leave everything here even if I hated this country and and walked away like I don't know I don't think I could do that so I respect them so deeply now especially as an adult when I look back and know how that Journey could go so I also have a lot More empathy of you know we talk about stories they've told us and they keep the stories keep changing I didn't know how to like and I would get frustrated like just tell me the truth and they're like this is

the truth and dad like well it could have gone that way and you're like ah and that as someone who's growing and trying to put all my life in sort of categories it's really doesn't fit that for me and I think I learned to understand that you know we do actually Have a language barrier even though I don't see that and feel that because we talk and that there is a language barrier still that um when I show them my movie I think they're watching my movie They're laughing at the right parts but I remember

showing it PR in China and I brought my parents and their subtitles um in Chinese and my dad watched the movie and his eyes lit up he's like oh I love your movie I'm like what you've watched my movie eight times What are you talking about he's like oh no no I get all the things I'm like so you've been watching this movie and not understanding half the words or you have he's like no I get it I just so I just also like there's there's also like details that um that connect with my my

parents I find that now when I have my kids um I look at my daughter I don't try to fix my mom but I see her wounds and I try to make sure that my daughter um has the comfort and the love that my Mom gave me to heal some of those wounds that maybe she didn't have um so I I I try to focus my my attention a little bit forward in that but I'm still figuring out I have no idea all these so well that's beautiful I mean I I um I feel like

there's so many things you can relate to uh when it comes to families and and the things that you experience in your family no matter what what your background is and um and I I openly wept at the end of your book I will say and I I think hearing your relationship with your your parents it's beautiful um and I'd love to um to move uh now to Wicked um and you know I think uh you get to Wicked at the very very end of you finder so in many ways uh where the book ends

is where your life is picking up at this very moment um and it's clear that directing this film has been a lifetime in the making for you um so what is it what does it meant to you what does it mean to you to home this project well One I am I'm a fan of wicked I saw Wicked in San Francisco at the current theater before it ever went to Broadway so I was in the same room with all the creators on their earliest days and I had no idea my my mom and dad would

take us to um the city every weekend to see shows when I was growing up Opera season ballet season or musical season and and um and this I was at College it was like my freshman year and so they're like hey there's a new Steven Schwarz musical you Should come see it and um so I my mom and I went um so it was it was like old times again with us and we watched the musical and I was just blown away even in that form even in that rough form uh I think they had

cut songs after that and stuff but but even that hor form I was so moved by this witch who isn't a witch at all who is seen as different because she's green who feels out of place um has a narrative set on top of her and has to Like over over come that has to ascend above that um and taking this the most American fairy tale Wizard of Oz maybe other than Star Wars The Wizard of Oz and flipping it in A New Perspective to me was like so compelling as a young person to watch

that so for 20 years I was like this needs to be a movie I I but never thought that they would ever hire me to make that movie so but 20 years later uh it did come and uh I'm I'm really grateful it's a it's a Beautiful story and especially at this moment there feels like an urgency to tell this story in the most uh again American fairy tale at the time when America's going through our own identity crisis at the same time that uh Cinema itself is going through its own Survival uh uh crisis

at the same time that musicals are the most American genre of of of of of Cinema um being sort of reinvented and refound again right now Um to me uh exploring those ideas uh and identity through all of that through at this moment is is was is is is a moment I could not pass up so um and and and in fact you I think you've said that um you're glad it took you so long to get to the Emerald City so I think Beyond just even this moment it sounds like uh for cultural moment

that there's something personal for you that um that makes this this moment better for you to direct this film than than any other can You share more about that yeah some people say that like oh John what's the movie that you always wanted to do and if that were I I would probably say Wicked you know however many years ago I wrote it down on a piece of paper however you don't get the luxury of choosing whatever story you want to tell you get to tell like I think that's a misconception that oh I want

to tell this story I'm going to go tell it just give me a camera I'm gonna I actually Think it's more spiritual than that I think that the author and the idea it's like a spiritual marriage that you can have an idea but if you don't give it a if it doesn't choose you too then it goes nowhere um and so there is a wooing of an idea an exploration a curiosity of trying to understand it more and see if it grows somewhere there's a dating period of an idea uh for Wicked that was like

my dream girl and um I and but I could want it as much as I I I wanted to But if it wasn't right and it wasn't right time and it wasn't the right moment that this planet wanted us to make it then it would have never happened and so when those start to happen when I got the call I I and I and it took me I mean I think every movie that I did led up to this point of wicked I had to do through stepup movies in order to learn how to one

deal with a fan base that was on Myspace that really loved the stepup movies how to uh work With dancers how to find discover all these other dancers young dancers with such beautiful different forms of poetry I had to learn how to shoot that how not to ruin their performances how to understand their performance I had to go be with Justin V and do a Justin Bieber documentary um in order to learn for myself how how to sometimes you don't have to cut around to everything sometimes reality and truth is without the author in the

way and you just shoot And sometimes uh you get to see how a kid going through this isn't meant to do that and so there's certain there's certain things I had to learn GI Joe I had to learn visual effects and working with a a comic book crowd and a toy company and um and all those things leading up to to Crazy Rich Asians about um how to do the thing that's most scary to you about your culture identity and then in the Heights in the same way and do it on the streets of of

Washington Heights all led to Wicked um and so yeah I feel like every step got to this point and it chose me and we I chose it um so uh I hope you get the results of that um because I think it's it's beautiful when we when it all comes together um well obviously Wicked is a deeply beloved story um the you know the play of course was a um a Smash Hit And we actually I'm going to start to bring in some questions from the audience because we have one from the author of a

book Called Finding Oz where he tells the story um Evan who's a a Ted member um tells the story of how El Frank Bal um created the original novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz um and he asks if your vision for the wicked films goes back to the bomb novel at all for inspiration either visually or in any way about the ideas behind the icons there yeah um absolutely that that is our main source of of inspiration other than the musical itself um that is that Al Frank bomb I Mean even alphaba is named alphaba

because of L frank bomb um and we have lots of uh we took characters from the novel from the densow drawings that are um in the you know in in this movie um that are in Emerald City or along the way you know it's hard because it is sort of several different Source material based off of the same thing um El Frank bomb bombs of course which by the way when when I um there was a certain point where uh after Ariana got The got the role she sent me a gift and it's in this

little box and it's a first edition first state uh version of Wizard of Oz and it's always in my office I'm not even allowed to open it more than like 45 degrees but it smells like old man yeah so so yeah the fonts the style the denzo style all is a part of it and even like some of el Frank bomb's history which you know he has a complicated history um he one of his jobs one of his first jobs was to raise Sort of fancy chickens um was to breed them and sell them and

so we uh there's a there's an animal band in one of our scenes and so I wanted these fancy chickens to be part of that uh animal band so if you see that uh you know that's my little no to Frank bomb um but at the same time we are we are uh infiltrating his vision of America a little bit um we are playing with the idea of what um a hero looks like um and and how story is used um and Uh but yeah that I think that's that that that's the fun part of

it um well Emma um asked what was the most challenging aspect of adapting this for um for the screen the most challenging part um well the pure scope of it was really challenging Beyond like the mental strain that it takes to decide how to make a show which has some plot holes in it and is fairly long on Broadway and how to making the decision to split into two was very very Difficult but it also was such a uh a very Natural Choice like we had no choice other than that because we could not fit

it it could not fit it would be a overly bloated movie with too many things or or um um or we would cut it down to a point where it wouldn't be Wicked the musical and that's that's the reality of it um The Challenge though from there was how do you make one movie as emotionally and satisfying as possible so it doesn't feel like half a Movie and that was uh that was actually easier than I thought because once you cut it out and then you track your characters and we know story architecture very well

that we could just load it in on how to make Defying Gravity the thing you're waiting for the whole movie you have to start with Wizard and I to know her wants and her needs and you have to root for this character maybe you have to know more about this character in order to really Want this for her you have to see her maybe have a couple wins have a couple you have to have certain things and turns in order to make Defying Gravity the moment you're waiting for the moment of Defiance the moments of

surrender she doesn't have to prove herself so some of that architecture was was was was was tough but uh making that decision to split was was difficult but I think in the end of the day it was making sure that we I made my all made my younger Self proud that this is both Wicked but the cinema version of it that's the crystallized Cinema version and it's not the show but it is the show it's that that's a difficult change we did it with crazy rich as where people were like oh that's like the book

and you're like if you actually look at the plotting it's not a lot like the book but it feels like the book and that's whenever we interpret something that's that's what we try to get the feel of what it felt Like to watch it and experience it and with all the things and protect the things but be a different experience so they can all live together you can still watch Wicked the show and Wicked the movie and feel like they're two sort of separate experiences and with the two installments being released about a year apart

do you will there be um a a I guess a big distinction between the way the films will feel for the the audience As well I think so I think so I mean in the show the um they grow really they grow in different ways and the tone shifts as well um it's more it's a little it's it's a different type of tone it's it's it's sort of choices and consequences and consequences get uh get complicated um and when you think about either the the the two installments as a whole or just what's what's to

come in November and what people will get out of this versus what they got out of the Stage performance what is your your big hope there well what we always said it's it's about the girls stupid these two women uh alphaba and galinda if we don't find Cynthia Revo and Ariana Grande we don't have a movie and we knew that these two uh everyone had to audition so first of all imagine them coming into audition and having to sing for us to audition uh they had to act and do all the things And they jump

through every hoop and every hoop and everyone we saw from no namers to namers that uh they were the most interesting people in the they're the ones that you felt like it wasn't there were so many great talent no doubt everyone could have done it but there's a there is a connection when you know this is the one for this particular story of this time of this moment those two those two women and I think that relationship is real how they bond how So different they are and yet how how much they share in [Music]

um how much they share in their ambition and in their love for the planet there's two different ways of going at it and I think people will feel that I think everyone will be an alphab or galinda or some of us or all of them together so um I'm really excited about that to be honest it's awesome well um I know um technology and you know you've Uh been a long um Ted a tendy t we a Ted speaker um we're thrilled to have you here speaking with us today um and Tech is such a

big part of how of the type of ideas we think about in in our space and you've long celebrated the way Tech can support creativity um and enhance storytelling um especially in your industry and I'm curious when you when you see what's happening out there right now with um advancements in Tech specifically in AI um what do you think Are the opportunities um it could present for the future of visual storym and um how you think about uh the work that you're you've even done just now with Wicked I think AI is a very broad

word for many things that are changing our whole existence and I love I love technology so I've I've tried to follow along it's hard to keep up because it's changing every four days um yeah exactly every hour on the hour um but I'll tell you what it's what you Can't do is ignore something like this and and and and you know creativity is yes a small section of what AI is going to change in this world so uh but but but but I think it's the it's the realm that we never thought computers were ever

going to touch like actual conception of of ideas and I think it only um points a lens back at us to say uh okay what is creativity okay what is your message what is your message That's so unique it's in a weird way I feel like it's the same when Instagram had filters or something or when camera phones hit every every every phone that you're like oh wow everyone has a great camera now like the barrier isn't having a great camera and and actually every camera can use software to fix the lighting so it's not

even about lighting anymore it's maybe not even about composition because you can change everything so what is it that that all Goes together what you're what you're trying to say so like an Instagram photo is an Instagram photo but art photographs is something that that we choose of what that what is going to be art in that in that in that moment and so it changes the values of things and I think for AI in our creative space it's going to change the value of maybe production value like having a giant set may not be

the thing that Wows people anymore in the same way that when you go See a Marvel movie a big giant planet flying through is not as compelling as it was when we saw it in Star Wars um doesn't mean it's not amazing it just means it just you can if you can pay for it and get done then whatever like okay so what so what so what are you saying and I think that that's the onus on us I I believe in our human capacity to outrun um to use creativity to break rules goals or

expectations of what you think is next that's literally our job So I I believe that humans can and will do that um continuously now I also think there's some great tools with AI um I mean technology has always been a great tool help I I I was there for when it went from analog to digital from linear to nonlinear I mean we were all a lot of us were there to to feel that shift and it and yes it was uncomfortable at first but then changed everything um and CH and democratize the whole process so

I'm excited to see there'll probably be a AI Category some 14-year-old kid will make a full-on the Snow White of uh of AI movies um that won't be my category but I'm sure that person will do their thing and just like electronic music has its own category of stuff I really believe all of that um but I do also think like for me um I'm sure I'll use it in some way I I don't know exactly how yet I've been playing with it though to see just to know I think in order to in order

to really figure out what the Boundaries of it should be we have to understand it and so it's the Wild Wild West right now um and I think that you know legislatively we need to we need to do we should protect intellectual rights and we should do that I just don't think those buttons and the levers sort of work that fast anymore and I'm not sure we have the political leaders who understand technology like that anymore so again as a Creator since I'm not a politician the only thing I can do is Understand it so

I can um in make better decisions of how to use it or how to help inform people of where the issues are with this and um and you we're getting into this just a little bit now but I guess on the the flip like what what is it that scares you about it if there are things that that scare you I'm scared that um it's a lot of immense amount of power um I you know when you first get into this business and you get the Microphone um there's a fantasy to that I mean same

thing with Twitter I guess that you have the microphone you could say something and and and and you're not a kid anymore the moment you get that microphone the world comes after you or you influence the world in whatever place you're at in your life that is a powerful powerful tool we're putting a a Mac Truck in the hands of whoever and not everyone understands the grammar of audiovisual Storytelling or what you Have in your hand when you're doing it so like a baby rattlesnake it usually puts the most poison on more than an adult

Ratt thing because it just doesn't know and so I am scared for someone who gets it in their hands and doesn't know what they're doing with not necessarily their bad even bad intentions but that they spread something or do something because it seems kind of funny or whatever and it Causes real damage to people's lives so uh that's what I'm scared about I'm not scared about uh I mean there's jobs that are going to be lost I feel like technology does that often and that's a cycle that we go through and I believe in people

to figure out how to how to do that um we lost lab workers when we we didn't make film shoot film anymore but we gained dits and we gained uh digital you know edit houses and things like that and It's not an easy process but but but that's a there is a natural flow to those kind of things um so yeah I'm I'm also scared that we we that AI creates out of this pool of ideas that have been set in the soup already and we have so much more to add to that soup we

have so much more ingredients to add and so that's why I think right now is like an urgent time to make make make make make because this AI is reading the soup and we've only Had certain perspectives in that soup and for us to get in there say this is also beautiful this is also a hero this is also what you don't know this is what makes my parents funny not what you think my parents are funny talking or anything it's this is what makes them funny like we have to add more to the soup

so I I get I get worried about we have a short window to flood the gates with as much our human um ideas and and perspectives so that when the soup is Going to be used in the future that it has full context well we have a flood of questions coming in from our audience I want to make sure that we get to a bunch of them so um I'm going to start to integrate more of those into our conversation here so uh Tony um is curious about how you approach working with actors um it's

it's it's I work with actors in the same way that I work with My production designer with my costume designer with my editor with my cinematographer like we are a shared creative uh authors uh and again not all directors maybe do this and all power to them because they make amazing movies but for me I love the process of working um together on something I of course have a vision if I were to sit down I could draw at every frame of my movie two seconds but that's if I can draw it out in my

bedroom that's not the best Movie that's going to be made so that said working with an actor um I sit down and and I give them I say you know okay we're gonna be partners in this here's what I need from you I need to show up on time I need you to uh uh hear the charact here's how I see the characters and I'm open to discuss what that is but we sort of need to be on the same in the same Planet same Universe um because if we're going to go through this weekend

and by the way it doesn't Mean we have to agree on anything because our relationship to be able to have real uh uh honest conversations is a part of this partnership so I should be able to call you and I will say this to them I said I should be able to call you and say hey why are you late every day if I can't say that to you then we're not going to be great partners and when you say that UPF front it it takes a lot of the stuff off the table because I

can call them about anything I can say Hey you were a little distracted or like hey I know that um you want to do this thing tomorrow here's how I see this part of the thing I will let's let's shoot your version but can you can you do me a solid and let's shoot my version as well and I promise in the edit room I will protect us whatever's best for the movie because we don't know all the pieces we're making for the movie yet but we will know the context later as the movie comes

together and it will Tell us which the right answer is I have to have those conversations I'm not like oh uh Dwayne Johnson you're the best what do you want to do to I'm not like that and I'm not like Dwayne get over here and just move your head and blink your eye like they're not going to take that either so it's a lot more work to have a Rel relationship like that but I kind of find the joy of my job in in those kind of trying to solve that puzzle together I feel like

that's Another great leadership tip that can be applied anywhere right that it feels painful um yeah that's why I write in my book it's a work in process always it's so it's it's it's just process it's it's a creativity is not uh light bulb I think I say in the book that you don't you can't just switch it on it's a every day it's a rehearsal so you're Gathering ideas every day and putting it in your Dropbox folders or putting it in your journals or whatever so when I need to Come up with an idea

I'm not going to wait for like God to give me some amazing idea and like that could happen but but but I'm going to go back to my what I my reps what I do every day I'm going to say hey what characters do do I find interesting oh yeah does that attach to this no maybe no it doesn't but it Sparks something and I can go there like we are just we are we are information in our heads and trying to find a way so the more prompts we have For ourselves maybe uh get

us to our idea quicker um well sort I sort of along these same lines um to asks how do you find inspiration and build up your creativity um that's a good question because when you're making a movie you're you're making something every day and you're being creative but you're in the very specific Lane so it's really hard to see outside your lane um and that's that's probably the most Difficult thing I try to uh and the you know scrolling on Tik Tok I wouldn't say I mean sometimes that that'll spur something uh I mean there's

definitely a lot of things you get to see really quickly um so I don't know the answer to that right now for me in my process um my family because I get to live through you know six other lives in my household um is that right I don't know yeah six um and then and and seven if you count the one in the in in the oven Um I tried to and and and actually really having kids I talked to them every night and we asked them uh you know what's what are what kind of

thing they did for somebody what was the kind of thing that was done for them um and we also asked them do you have any questions um for us and those moments are like fascinating because they ask the mo the the most interesting questions um um and uh and so I try to keep uh I try to keep aware I guess of Of of the world that way for me right now um usually I just I do journal or not even I don't even know if I call it journaling I I put it I collect

every time I see something and especially with a phone it's easy I take a picture of it I see an article I take a picture of it I screen grab it and I put it in these folders and I have a character folder a scenario folder a relation chips folder a you know visual inspiration folder um just colors um so I have all these Different things I used to put it in a like a um like a spiral and I just taped them in but that I got lost that a long time ago now I

have um no I have an actual like Dropbox folder that I put all the stuff in um well I call it my pantry your pantry oh as a throwback to your parents there right exactly exactly an O to your parents um well we have a lot of people who are really also very curious about how you stay true to Yourself which feels really connected to this and thinking about your your family and how they factor into your creative process but how do you manage to um stay true to yourself in an Ever evolving space um

and uh especially when it comes to creative work yeah that's a really hard question because I struggle with that all the time when you're making a movie you have you have your like your laser vision that's how you lead Hundreds and hundreds of people and yet uh you have to have room to keep discovering I mean I came up with a line yesterday for the movie and we locked our movie last Friday so I can't put it in and it's driving me crazy the last 24 hours because I'm like how could I could I slip

it in maybe I'll do it in movie too I don't know um I don't know the answer to how to keep because there's a lot of stuff coming at you I will say Though talking about process is actually really helpful like talking about it right now is really helpful for me I talk about um working every time I you know I work on the script and I work with a writer on the script and I have a vision for it and I'm trying to get the writer closer to my vision it's very frustrating but the

vision but the writer has something to bring to it and when we finally get there I'm like exhausted and then the actor comes in And then the actor comes in and they have ideas on the script and I'm like no no no I just got this perfect and and the way they say a line isn't the way but actually it's actually okay and then and then we get that just right and we do versions and we cut all we shoot all this stuff and the editor cuts it together and I'm like that's not her movie

oh my gosh I'm starting over again and then I'm like no no just move this around here and but then he does some Things that are really great and then we find this thing get so and then the composer comes in and changes all this music and you're like no I mean it is a constant erasing and I feel like a one of those I think those monks that like have the sand and the art and then they blow and the wind blows it away the next day and you have to be okay with that

like there is beauty in the temporary brilliant idea but if you do it every day then It's an average of the amount of creativity and free spirit that you give to each of those days it's sort of like you get a little inch every time and hopefully it it accumulates so I think every I think it's hard because I you you can't I can't distill it it's just about the practice of loving the process of building and destroying and building and destroying and and that's not a glamorous way to See it but we all know

instinctively that's how our life is no matter how many people look at us and are like wow you host this and you host that and that you're like yeah but I had to do a lot of this other but I won't talk about that but but as creators as we are all creators like we know that it's just the average of of things that we just get through every day um so that's what I would try to think about it yeah um well I'm definitely going to write down There's Beauty in the temporary brilliant moment

um when I get off of this call with you um so Adnan has a question about representation um which is something that we know has been really important to you and and the work that you do and the type of stories that you tell and how you tell them um and so how when you think about representation and and the way that um the the the wins we've had the accomplishments we we've made as a a society what is how do you Know that we've arrived I guess when when do you know that the work

is is done uh when is the work done I mean I don't know I don't know if that's possible be fully done with the work because if you're representing I mean the world is so big and we have so many things that we don't see so many blind spots like maybe that's that's the whole beauty of Being Human it's like it's a constant opening up eyes like we're always we we are born but like light is Coming in every ounce until it's not and I and so I don't I don't know if there's an endgame

other than that the more we we know the more we can Relish in this life and I so for for me personally um you know we're we're we're in baby steps we're in the movie business which is is it has a certain value to it because there's giant corporations behind a movie and they promote ideas they promote Beauty they promote what hero looks like they Promote uh how you should live or what you aspire to be like so it has a it has a weight to it and so I play in that game because I

was affected by the weight of movies um it spurred my creativity it gave me a purpose it gave me it gave me another life in my in my head and it's for some reason something that I can do I just happen to connect the dots and some of those things and so when I look at that value of of that space that movies Provide and I look at um who I am and how what kind of space I take up in that space uh and how I want to live my life I think about now

I think about a lot my children how to build the canvas for them to live in the America that I was always promised that I actually believed in and maybe some of it was there and some of it was not but I would love to create that the the canvas that is more there than than was before which is I think the whole idea Of America is this promise and this idea that we're always going towards so I think that's part of my role as a Storyteller in the movie business is to sustain that now

I can do it many ways I can be a pessimistic and knock on all the faults of America or I can I I feel like I'm best at serving as a celebration of the capacity of uh of of of human beings and the capacity of our love and the capacity of our relationships not naive but the capacity To get through and that light is light and it's beautiful and it feels so good and joy is real and it's deep and it's fun and will'll make you smile and will make you cry um and it is

not homework I think like the heart of it all is like I don't want my I don't want my movie to be homework I want to be entertainment like that's that's what got me in I want want that but at the same time I can make I can make Beauty uh something that Maybe Hollywood hasn't seen I can make a hero that Hollywood hasn't seen um and make it just as exciting as they did in those old musicals what Fred a stair or any of those people went through like I think that's valuable and I

don't have to be loud about it I don't have to make a huge thing about it other people can do that and that's great and fine but for me like I know that's how I can specifically take the space and so I'm laser focused on making the most Entertaining piece of of of of story I can but I am not shy in um infusing it with how I see the world because I know it's real I have a Val I do have a valuable Vision because I 100% know that it is real the world that

we can live in is real I've lived in it I've seen it and I've seen the world fight back against what that is but I've seen it and it's and it's glorious and so if I can give people a little glimpse of that hopefully other people can believe that As well and and do their part in getting us there too um well sha is an aspiring filmmaker and she would love your advice um for somebody who's interested in moving towards this career but hasn't already started in that space uh someone who who isn't in this

career but is moving into this space is that what you're saying okay it is a tough time to be in this space and by this space I don't know what you mean However I will say I will tell you where I what I what I think um as a kid I found a camera and I found editing but I ALS I was a Storyteller at heart those were the tools I used but deep down I was surrounded by storytellers my dad and my mom who were hosts of this thing they listened to stories and they

told stories back and so I think we are when you're in love with creativity you are a Storyteller that is your craft storytelling how what What medium in which you use your craft uh is is your choice and maybe your Discovery over time so I can do movies just so happen to be the thing I loved and wanted and and happen to work for me but if I didn't I would be doing this in commercials or if I didn't get I would be doing this in wedding videos and Bar Mitzvah videos which I did in

high school so the itch is scratched from different ways of Storytelling so I would be one I would say you know movies Are one thing but it is a it is a specific very specific art independent movies were Studio movies are two very specific Arts streaming movies versus uh theatrical are two very different Arts commercials all these things so I would keep your antennas open I would work on your storytelling which is making yourself emotionally available getting to the core of what makes you tick and the and the hot takes on the world that you

want out there from your own P Personal perspective that's the only thing that's going to be that's the magnet that draws people to you and two I would be drawn to the things you love whether it's drawing or painting or film making and I would go do those things but I would always keep your antennas up maybe it's not directing Maybe by directing you found out oh sound is my thing and you go tell your stories in sound you know what costumes I know costumes and I I'm valuable and I can Give value from that

so I'm going to go do that thing you are an asset to be acquired so whatever sto if you're a great and storytelling is required in all of those to be great um and I've seen it in all those great people that they are storytellers first so just keep your antennas open as you're on your journey pick the journey and go but keep your antennas open don't get stuck uh because you will find your way through there well as we wind down I know Everyone on the call is curious about what is next for you

and Gordon asks us in the I think the most interesting way he says after making Wicked what project will take you the next 20 years to fulfill uh definitely my kids definitely my kids but I feel like all the great storytellers Walt Disney and um and even the Pixar when Pixar was at its like Peak although some would argue it's pretty good right now um but when Pixar was at its Peak with Toy Story and and and and fighting Nemo and all those they were all new parents or had young young kids I've seen it

in other filmmakers and and it doesn't mean that that's required but I get I tell myself this because I think my best years are yet to come because I'm watching these children get the building blocks for life and I'm learning I'm learning so much I'm learning so much what makes a human tick and that's the Secret that I've been trying to figure out my whole life as a Storyteller but I get to witness it now and I feel so much empathy towards children now I can work with children better now because I I feel them

um but so I'm hoping and that's that's that that that through this I will uh I will discover what new temporary uh art that I will make and um and that I will surrender to what I meant to do when I meant to do it but I Will work my hardest and do my best at what I have to do um every day um presently um well as a parent to two small children myself I really appreciate that um and thank you so much for everything you shared with us today John and taking the time

to chat with us your wisdom has been so meaningful the the comments have um been glowing of all the things you you've shared and very appreciative so thank you John thanks everyone [Music] [Music]