Carl Rogers - Caso Gloria (legendado)

good morning hello I'm Dr R you must be Gloria yes I am that's we had half an hour together and I really don't know what we'll be able to make of it but uh I hope we can make something of it be glad to know whatever concerns you well right now I'm nervous but I feel more comfortable the way you're talking in a low voice and I don't feel like you'll be so harsh on me but uh I hear the Tremor in your voice so uh well the main thing I um want to talk to

you about is so I just nearly divorced and uh I had G therapy before and I felt comfortable when I left and all of a sudden now the biggest change is adusting to my single life mhm MH and one of the things that bother me the most is especially men and having men to the house and how it affects the children and um the biggest thing I want the thing keeps coming to my mind I want to tell you about is I have a daughter n who at one time I felt I had a lot

of emotional problems I wish I could stop shaking and uh I'm real conscious of things affecting her I don't want her to get upset I don't want to shock her I want so bad for her to accept me mhm and we're real open with each other especially about sex and the other day she saw a girl that was single for pregnant and she asked me all about can girls get pregnant if they're single and the conversation was fun and I wasn't un ease at all with her until she asked me if I'd ever made love

to a man since I left her daddy and I lied to her and ever since that it keeps coming up to my mind cuz I feel so guilty lying to her cuz I never lie and I want her to trust me and I want I almost want an answer from you I want you to tell me if it will affect her wrong if I told her the truth or what and and is this concern about her and the fact that you really AR that this open relationship that has existed between you now you feel is

kind of yes I feel like I have to be on guard about that because I remember when I was a little girl when I first found out my mother fathered made love that was dirty and terrible and I didn't I didn't like her anymore for a while and I don't want to light a p either and I don't know and sure wish I could give you the answer as to what you should tell her I was afraid you were going to say that cuz what she really want is an answer I want to especially know

if it would affect her if I was completely honest and open with her or if it would affect her because I lied I feel like bound to make a scam because I lied to her she'll suspect that or she will know something's not I she'll distrust me yeah and also I thought would G would about when she gets a little older and she finds herself in touchy situations she probably wouldn't want to admit it to me cuz she thinks I'm so good and so sweet and yet I'm afraid she could think I'm really a a

Dev and I want so bad for her to accept me and I don't know how much an can take and really both Alterna concern you that she might think you're too good or better than you really are yes and she might think that you're worse than you are not worse than I am I don't know if she can accept me the way I am I think I paint a picture that I'm sweet and motherly and I'm a little ashamed of my Shady Side too mhm mhm I see it really cuts a little deeper if she

really knew you would she could she accept you this is what I don't know yeah I don't know want to turn away from me I don't even know how I feel about it because there are times when I feel so guilty like when I have a man over I even try to make a special setup so that if I were ever alone with them the children would never catch me on that sort of thing cuz I'm no about it and yet I also know I have these desires that's Qui clear it isn't only her problem

or the relationship with her it's in you as well guilt yeah I gu so what can I accept myself as doing and do yes and you realize that you set up subes say to make sure that that you're not caught or something you realize that you are acting from guilt is that yes I don't like the I would like to feel comfortable with whatever I do if I choose not to tell panny the truth to feel comfortable that she can't handle it and I don't I want to be honest and yet I said there are

some areas that I don't even accept M if you can't accept them in yourself how could you possibly be comfortable in telling them to heard right and yet as you say you do have these desires and you do have your feelings but but you don't feel good about them right all right I I thought you're just going to sit there and let me sto it I want more um I want you to help me get rid of my guilt feeling if I can get rid of my guilt feeling about lying or going to bed with

a single man any of that just so I can feel more comfortable MH and I guess I'd like to say no I don't want to let you just Ste in your feelings but on the other hand I I also feel that this is the kind of very private thing that I couldn't possibly answer for you but I assure anything will try to help you work toward your own answer I don't know if that makes any sense to you but I mean it oh I appreciate you saying that you feel that but I don't know where

to go I don't begin to know where to go I thought that i' pretty well worked over most of my guilt and now that this is coming up I'm disappointed in myself I I am I want I like it when I feel that no matter what I do even if it's against my own morals or my upbringing that I can still feel good about me and know I don't like um there's a girl at work who sort of mothers me and she just she I think she thinks I'm all sweet and I sure don't want

to show my more orangy devilish side with her I want to be sweet and it's so hard for me to this all seems so new again it's so disappointing yeah I get the disappointment but here a lot of these things you thought you'd worked through and now the guilt and the feeling that only a part of you is acceptable to anybody else yeah that keeps coming out I guess I I do catch the real deep puzzlement that you feel is to what the hell shall I do what can I do yes and you know what

I can find doctor is that everything I start to do that I impulse it seems natural to tell P or to go out on the day or something I'm comfortable until I think how I was affected as a child and minut that comes up then I'm all hwire like I want to be a good mother so bad and I feel like I am a good mother but then there's those little exceptions like my guilts with working I want to work and it's so fun having extra money I like to work night the minute I think

I'm not being real good to the children or giving them enough time then I start feeling guilty again then that's when I it's a what do they call it a double bind that's just what it feels like I want to do this and it feels right but after all I'm not being a good mother and I want to be both I'm becoming more and more aware of what a perfectionist I am that's what it seems like I want to be so perfect either I want to become perfect in my stand or not have that need

anymore or I guess I hear it a little differently but uh what you want is to seem perfect but it means it's a great matter of great importance to you to be a good mother and you want to seem to be a good mother even if some of your actual feelings differ from that do that Cas I feel like I'm saying that no that isn't what I feel really I want to approve of me always but my actions won't let me I want to approve of me I I think I realize you all right i'

like you understand that you sound as your actions are kind of outside of you you want to approve of you but what you do somehow won't let you approve of yourself right like I feel that I could approve of myself regarding for example my sex life this is the big thing if I really fell in love with a man and I respected him and I adored him I don't think I'd feel so guilty going to bed with him I don't think I'd have to make up any excuses to the children because they could see my

natural caring for but when I have the physical desire and I say oh why not and I want to anyway then I feel guilty afterwards I hate facing the kids I don't like looking at myself and I rarely enjoy it and this is what I mean if the circumstances would be different I don't think I'd feel so guilty because I feel right about it yeah I I guess I hear you saying if if what I was doing when I went to bed with a man was really genuine and full of love and respect and I

wouldn't feel guilty in relation to pan I wouldn't uh I really would be comfortable about the situ that's what I feel here and I know that sounds like I want a perfect situation but that is how I feel and in the meantime I can't stop these desires I've tried that also I tried saying okay I don't like myself when I do that so I won't do it anymore but then I read that the children I think why should they stop me from doing what I want and it's really not that bad but I guess I

heard you saying too that doesn't own the children that you don't like it as well when it really isn't I'm sure that's I know that's it probably even more so than I'm aware of but I only notice it so much when I pick it up in the children then I can also have it in myself somehow sometimes you kind of uh feel like burning them for the feelings you have I mean why should they cut you off from a normal sex life well a sex life I could say not normal because there is something about

me that says that's not very healthy to uh just go into sex because you feel physically attractive or something or a physical need so something about it tells me that's not quite right anyway you feel really that at times you're acting in ways that are not in accord with your own inner standards great great but then you were also saying a minute ago but you feel you can't up that either I wish I could that's it and I can't now I feel like I can't control myself as well as I could have before for a

specific reason now I can't I just let go and I have there's too many things I do wrong that I have to feel guilty for and I sure don't like that I want you very much to give me a direct answer and I'm going to ask it and I don't expect a direct answer but I want to know do you feel that to me the most important thing is to be open and honest and if I can be open and honest with my children do you feel that it could harm him if for example I

could say to Pammy I was I felt bad lying to you pamy and I want to tell you the truth now and if I tell her the truth and she's shocked at me and she's upset that that could bother her more I want to get rid of my guilt and that will help me but I don't want put them on her that's right do you feel that could hurt concern I guess uh I'm sure this will sound evasive to you but it seems to me that perhaps the person you're not being fully honest with is

you because I was very much struck by the fact that you were saying if I feel all right about what I've done what it's came to bed with a man or what if I really feel all right about it then I don't have any concern about what I would tell Pam or or my relationship with her don't all right I hear what you're saying I then I want to work on I want to work on accepting me then I want to work on feeling all right about it and that makes sense that that will come

natural and then I don't have to worry about P but when things do things so wrong for me and I have an Impulse to do them how can I accept that what you'd like to do is to feel more accepting toward yourself when you do things that you feel are wrong is that right right I feel like I feel yeah I feel like you're going to say now why do you think they're wrong and uh I have mixed feelings there too through therapy all saying now look I know this is natural women feel it sure

we don't talk about a lot socially the all women feel it and it's very natural I've had sex for the last 11 years I'm of course going of want it but I still think it's wrong unless you're really truly in a man and my body doesn't seem to AG age and so I don't know how to accept it sounds like a triangle to me doesn't it you feel it I or therapist in general or other people say it's all right it's all right it's natural enough go ahead um and I guess you feel your body

sort of lines up on that side of the picture but something in you says but I don't like it that way that not it's really right I have a hopeless feeling I these are all the things I sort of feel myself and I feel okay now what mm they feel this is the conflict and it's just insoluble and therefore it's hopeless and hear you look to me and I don't seem to give you any help and I am I really know you can't answer for me and I have to figure it out myself but I

want you to guide me or show me where to start or so it won't look so hopeless MH I know I can keep living with this conflict and I know eventually things would work out but I like feeling more comfortable with the way I live and not I mind to ask what is it you wish I would say to you I wish she would say to me to be honest and take the risk that pammy's going to accept me and I also have a feeling if I could really risk it with Pam me of all

people that I'd be able to see here's this little kid that can accept me and I'm really not that bad if she really knows what a demon I am and still loves me and accepts me it seems like it would help me to accept me more like it's really not that bad I want you to say to go ahead and be honest but I don't want the responsibility that it would upset her that's where I don't want to take responsibility yeah you know very well what you'd like to do in a relationship you would like

to be yourself and you'd like to have her know that you're not perfect and do things that maybe even she wouldn't approve of she dis approve of to some degree yourself but that somehow she would love you and accept you as an imperfect person like I wonder if my mother had been more open with me maybe I wouldn't have had such a narrow attitude about sex if I would have thought that she could be you know pretty sexy and orinary and devilish too but I wouldn't look at her as being such a sweet mother that

she could also be the other side but she didn't talk about that maybe that's where I got my picture I don't know but I want pamy to see me as a full woman but also accept me mhm you don't sound so uncertain I I don't what do you mean what I mean is you've been sitting there telling me just what you would like to do in that relationship with I would but I don't quite take the risk of doing it unless Authority tells you that it's I guess one thing that uh I feel very keenly

is it's an awfully risky thing to look you be taking a chance on your relationship with her taking a chance on letting her know who you are really yeah but then if I don't take a chance if I feel loved and accepted by her I'm never going to feel good about it anyway m if if her love and acceptance of you is based on a false picture of you but the hell is the good of that is that that's what they me yeah but I also feel there's a lot of responsibility with being a mother

but I don't I don't want to feel like I've caused any big traumas in the children I don't like all that responsibility I think that's it I don't like it feeling it could be my fault I guess that's what I meant when I that life is risky it's uh to take the responsibility for being a person you would like to be with her is a hell of a responsibility it is a very frightening on all right then I want to work on I want to work on accepting me him I want to work on feeling

all right about it and that makes sense that that'll come natural and then I don't have to worry about panic but when things do seem so wrong for me and I have an Impulse to do them how can I accept it what you'd like to do is to feel more accepting towards yourself when you do things that you feel are wrong is that right right I feel like I feel yeah I feel like you're going to say now why do you think they're wrong and I have mixed feelings there too through therapy all say now

look I know this is natural women feel it sure we don't talk about a lot socially the all women feel it and it's very natural I've had sex for the last 11 years I'm of course going to want it but I still think it's wrong unless you're really truly in love with a man and my body doesn't seem de agree and so I don't know how to accept it sounds like a triangle to me doesn't it you feel it eye or therapist in general or other people say it's all right it's all right it's natural

enough go ahead um and I guess you feel your body sort of lines up on that side of the picture but something in you says but I don't like it that way notless it's really right I have a hopeless feeling and these are all the things I sort of feel myself and I feel okay now what if you this is the conflict and it's just insoluble and therefore it's hopeless and hear you look to me and I don't seem to give you any help and I am I really know you can't answer for me and

I have to figure it out myself but I want you to guide me or show me where to start or so it won't look so hopeless MH I know I can keep living with this conflict and I know eventually things would work out but I like feeling more comfortable with the way I live and not and man to ask what is it you wish I would say to you I wish you would say to me to be honest and take the risk that Pam's going to accept me and I also have a feeling if I

could really risk it with Pammy of all people that I'd be able to see here's this little kid that can accept me and I'm really not that bad if she really knows what a demon I am and still loves me and accepts me it seems like it would help me to accept me more like it's really not that bad I want you to say to go ahead and be honest but I don't want the responsibility that it would upset her see that's where I don't want to take responsibility yeah you know very well what you'd

like to do in the relationship you would like to be yourself and you'd like to have her know that you're not perfect and do things that maybe even she wouldn't approve of and that you disapprove of to some degree yourself but that uh somehow she would love you and accept you as an imperfect person like I wonder if my mother had been more open with me maybe I wouldn't have had such a Neal attitude about sex if I would thought that she could be you know pretty sexy and orary and devilish too but I wouldn't

look at her as being such a sweet mother that she could also be the other side but she didn't talk about that maybe that's where I got my picture I don't know but I want pamy to see me as a full woman but also accept me mhm you don't sound so uncertain I don't what do you mean what I mean is you've been sitting there telling me just what you would like to do in that relationship with them I would but I don't quite take the risk of doing it unless tells me that it's I

guess one thing that U if feel very keenly is it's an awfully risky thing the look you be taking a chance on your relationship with her taking a chance on letting her know who you are really yeah but if I don't take a chance if I feel loved and accepted by her I'm never going to feel good about it anyway m m if if her love and acceptance of you is based on a false picture of you what the hell is the good of that that's what it mean yeah but I also feel there's a

lot of responsibility with being a mother but I don't I don't want to feel like I've caused any big traumas in the children I don't like all that responsibility I think that's it I don't like it feeling it could be my fault I guess that's what I me I said life is risky it's uh to take the responsibility for being a person you would like to be with her is a hell of a responsibility it is I Bo frightening on you know I look at it two ways I like to see myself as being so

honest with the kids and really being proud of myself though that no matter what I told them or no matter how bad they might think I was I was honest and down deep it's going to be a much more wholesome relationship and yet you know I get jealous of like when they're with their daddy I feel he's more flip he's not quite as real he's not quite as honest but nevertheless they see a sweet picture of their dad you know he's all goodness and light and I'm envious of that too I want them to see

me just as sweet as they see him and yet I know he's not quite as real with him mhm so it seems like I've got to swap the one for the other MH and I know this is really what I want the most but uh I miss some of that Glory yeah in s of you I want them to have just as nice a picture of me as they have of their dad and is a little for me and maybe mine will have to be two I think that's putting a little too strong but that's

close that is putting me I wish I can't have that need a picture of me if I were honest besides that I do feel I'm a little more orary than their dad anyway so I'm likely to do more things of good disapprove of s you really find it quite hard to believe that they would really love you if they knew you that's right you know that's exactly it before therapy I would have definitely chosen the other area I'm going to get respect from them no matter what even if I have to lie I see well

right now I know that's not true and I'm not positive that truly accept me something tells me they will I know they will but I'm not positive I want reassured I keep wanting these things kind of no man's landar of probably shifting from one point of view toward them to another but boy You' sure like somebody to say that's right you go ahead and do it yes that's why I get encouraged when I reading a book from somebody I respect and admire that this is the right thing no matter what Honesty will win out well

then that keeps giving me confidence by gosh I'm right but it's a damn hard to really choose something on your own isn't it which makes me feel very immature I don't like this in me I wish I were grown up enough or mature enough to make my decisions and stick by them but I need somebody to help me out somebody to push me so you kind of reproach yourself for that I guess and feel why if I was anybody if I was grown up I'd be mature enough to decide things like this for all right

and take more risks I wish i' take more risks I wish that I could just go ahead and this and say however the children grow up I've done my best I didn't have to constantly have this conflict and I'd like later years to say no matter what you ask me kids at least I told you the truth you may not have liked it but it's been the truth that's somehow I can admire I I disrespect people that lie I hate it so you see what a double bind I am in I hate myself if I'm

bad but I also hate myself if I lie so it's accepting I want to become more accepting I guess judging from your tone of voice you sound as though you hate yourself more when you lie than you do in terms of things you disapprove of I do because this has really bothered me this happened with pamy about a month ago and it keeps coming to my mind I don't know whether to go back and talk to her about it oh wait she may have even forgotten what she asked me but uh one is you haven't

forgotten I no I haven't and i' like to at least be able to tell her that I remember lying and I'm sorry I lied and it's been driving me bugs because I did I don't really feel like now that's solved and I didn't even solve the thing but I feel relieved MH mhm I I do feel like you've been saying to me you're not giving me advice but I feel like you're saying you really want to you know what pattern you want to follow goria and go ahead and follow it I swear to feel I'm

backing up from you I guess the way I sense it is uh you've been telling me that you know what you want to do and yes I do believe and backing up people in what they want to do it's just a little different slant in the way it seems to you are you telling me the one thing that concerns me is uh it's no damn good you're doing something that you have really chosen to do that's why I'm trying to help you find out what your own inner choices are but then there's also a conflict

there because I'm not really positive what I want to do the lying part yes but I'm not positive what I want to do when I go against myself like when I bring a man to the house I'm not sure I want to do that if I feel guilty afterwards I must not have really wanted to I'm interested that you say I'm just sure which words you use but you you don't want that you don't like yourself or you don't agree with it then you do something against yourself mhm you know this is so different now

this kind of thing that we're talking about now it isn't just knowing whether you want to do something or not if I want to go to work in the morning or I don't want to go to work that's easy but when I find myself doing something I don't feel comfortable with I automatically say if you're not comfortable gr it's not right something's wrong all right now what I want to ask you is how can I know which is the strongest because I do it does that mean that's the strongest and yet if I disapprove that's

just part of the thing that's got to go along with it see it sounds like you I'm picking up a contradiction I'm not I'm not following it's not like you're feeling a contradiction in yourself too although you what I heard you saying in part is uh the way you like it is when you feel really comfortable about what you're doing yes and I have at times when I've made a decision and that seems right that seems perfectly right no conflict but then there are times I do things that I feel uncomfortable with so that there

is a conflict there it's not the same at all so what I'm saying is how do I really know when I'm following my true feelings if I have conflicts afterwards or guilt afterwards I see because in the moment it may seem like your true feeling yes like if I'm starting to do it okay MH mhm MH so that really is tough uh then if you feel comfortable in the moment about it but then afterward don't feel at all comfortable which course of Direction was really the one you should have followed you know the most outstanding

thing I don't know if you're following me when I say about this conflict the one thing I know is I've wanted for example to leave my husband for quite a few years I never did it I kept thinking how nice it would be or how scary it would be but I never did it and all of a sudden when I did it felt right I didn't feel mean toward him I just knew this is what I had to do that's when I know I'm following myself I'm following my feelings completely I had no conflict there

so many happy things came from it but I still have no conflict that to me is when I'm following my feelings and in everyday life the small little decisions the small little things to do don't come out there clear it all so many conflicts come in is this natural although you're saying uh it is but but you're saying too that you know perfectly well a feeling within yourself that occurs when you're really doing something that's right for you I do I do perfectly well feeling within yourself it occurs when you're really doing something that's right

for you I do I do and I miss that feeling other times and it's better way a clue to me m you can really listen to yourself sometimes and realize oh know this isn't the right feeling this is this isn't the way I would feel if I was doing what I really wanted to do but yet many times I'll go on and do it anyway and say oh well I'm in a situation now I'll just remember next time uh I mentioned this word a lot in therapy and and most therapists gr it me or giggle

or something when I say Utopia but when I do follow a feeling and I feel this good feeling inside me that's sort of Utopia that's what I mean that's the way I like to feel whether it's a bad thing or a good thing but I feel right about me sense that you those utopian moments you really feel kindal to whole you feel all in one piece mhm yeah it gives me a choked up feeling when you say that because I don't get that as often as I'd like MH I like that whole feeling that's real

precious to me I expect none of us get it as often as we like but I really do understand that M really does touch you do well you know what else I was just thinking I feel dumb thing it uh all of a sudden as I'm talking I thought G how ni I can talk to you and I want you to approve of me and I respect you but I miss that my father couldn't talk to me like you are I mean I'd like to say CH like you for my father I want to know

why that came to me you look to me like a pretty nice daughter but you really do miss the fact that you couldn't be open with your own B yeah I couldn't be open but I I want to blame it on him I think I'm more open than he'd allow me he would never U listen to me talk like you are MH and U not disapprove and not lar me down it's yeah I thought of this the other day why do I always have to be so perfect I don't know why he always wanted me

to be perfect always had to be better and uh yeah I miss that you just ch like hell to be the girl he wants you to be at the same time rebelling true like I almost gred writing in a letter the other day and telling them I'm a waitress which I expect him to disapprove of I go out at night and I I almost quoted hitting him back like no how do you like me and yet I really want acceptance and love from him I mean I really l so you slap at him and say

this is what I am now see yeah but you how do you like it but you know what I think I want him to say I knew this was you all along for me I really love you you really feel bad you think there's very little chance you'll say that no he won't he he doesn't hear I went back home to him about 2 years ago really wanting to let him know I loved him although I've been afraid of him he doesn't hear me he keeps saying things like honey you know I love you you

know I've always loved you he doesn't hear never really known you and loved you and this somehow is what brings the tears inside I don't know what it is you know when I talk about it it feels more flipped if I just sit still in there it feels like a great big hurt down there instead I feel cheated mhm it's much it's much easier to be a little flip because then you don't feel that big lump inside of H MH and again that's a hopeless situation I tried working on it and uh I feel something

I have to accept my father just isn't the type of man I'd really like I'd like somebody more understanding and caring he cares but not in a way that we can cooperate or communicate you not that I am permanently cheated M that's why I like substitutes like I like talking to you and I like uh men that I can respect doctors and I I keep sort of maybe underneath feeling like we're real close you know and it's sort of like a substitute father I don't feel that's pretending you're not really my father no I me

about the real close business you see I sort feel that's pretending too because I can't expect you to go very close to me you don't know me that well all I can do is what I am feeling that is I feel Close to You In This Moment In Spite of feeling initially the artificiality of the situation and particularly the hot lights I very quickly became oblivious to the outside situation and I think that Gloria did too uh in many ways I'm glad that she kept uh pushing me for an answer to her very personal questions

about her sex life and her relationship to her daughter I say I'm glad of this because as the relationship developed it became I think completely clear to her as well as to me that she was seeking something a good deal deeper than that incidentally I'd like to pay my tribute to her uh deep honesty and being willing to talk about herself so freely although every individual is entirely unique and in this respect I was definitely unprepared for and sometimes surprised by the material IAL she brought up still in another sense this was very typical of

of my experiences in therapy when I'm able really to let myself enter into a relationship and I feel that this was true in this instance then I find myself not only being increasingly moved by being in touch with the inner world of my client but I find myself bringing out of my own inner experience statements which seem to have no connection with what's going on but which usually Prov to be uh or Pro to have a very significant relationship to what the client is experiencing I felt there were one or two incidents of this kind

in this brief interview I was genuinely moved I probably showed it by the fact that she told me near the end of the contact that uh she saw me as the father she would like to have my reply was also a thoroughly spontaneous one that she seemed to me like a pretty nice daughter I guess I feel that we're only playing with the real world of relationships when we talk about such an experience in terms of transference and counter transference uh I feel quite deeply about that I I want to say yes we can put

the experience into some such uh highly intellectualized framework but when we do that it completely misses the point of the very immediate iow quality of the relationship at such moments I felt that uh Gloria and I really encountered each other and that in some small but I believe lasting way we were each of us enriched by the experience I'm saying these things almost immediately after the conclusion of the interview and as is characteristic of me there are not more than one or two statements or incidents which I recall from the interview I simply know that

I was very much uh present in the relationship that I lived it in the moment of its occurrence and I realize that after a time I may begin to remember it too but at the present time I really have uh a very non-specific memory of the whole uh interview I'll try to look at it though a little bit more from a intellectual rather than a strictly feeling point of view Gloria showed what I've come to feel are characteristic elements of therapeutic movement in the first part of the interview she was talking about her feelings and

they were past feelings she was talking about aspects of her behavior and of herself as if she didn't quite own them she was looking outside herself for a center or locus of evaluation some source of of authority she saw some of the things she was talking about in Fairly black and white fashion by the end of the interview uh she was experienc ing her feelings in the immediate moment not only as evidenced by her tears but by her ability to express very directly and with immediacy her feelings toward me she was also much more aware

of her ability to make her own judgments and and choices I guess uh put in terms that have become somewhat common place you could say that that she moved from the there and then of her life to the Here and Now of elements that she was discovering in herself and feelings that she was experiencing in the moment in her relationship with me all in all I feel good about the interview I guess I feel good about myself in the interview and like Gloria I feel very real regret that the relationship cannot continue