I think the paper I'm about to discuss might broadly overturn much of what I've said you've said meno said this is getting real embarrassing can we just bury this paper stop stop stop stop [Music] recording I want to grow muscle mhm but damn it I don't know how much protein to eat and I am absolutely uninterested in anything but the latest research can you help me I can help you oh my God I'm unbelievable this is Japanese people got you as well I love it World War II was just one giant misunderstanding it's been all Kawaii since then what is that mean that means uh I believe cute in Japanese or whatever a I'm dipping into my anime incel knowledge yes yes do you think that when they were bombing various American facilities the Japanese during World War II Drw emojis and uh like Hello Kitty stickers were put on the bombs yes it's crazy how Emoji culture kind of almost came from Japan at one point I remember like back in the day you remember when emojis weren't really a thing yet like not the the drawings right people would make like the convoluted text based emojis faces with the colon and the yeah like the star emojis and like you know crazy hey nowadays Japan huge cultural exports you know they they made it back oh yeah anyways you might have heard and I might have said and you might have said everyone might have said that to maximize muscle building you only need to have around 1. 6 G of protein per kilog of body weight maybe even you're being cautious I was being cautious 1 gr of protein per pound of body weight that's like the highest people usually go outside of traditional Jim brro lore where 10 years ago 20 years ago uh companies were getting Filthy Rich by saying ah three grams per pound broke trust me that was the the day to be selling protein um I have also cited some more speculative work by uh Helms and colleagues in their review paper back in the day that in some conditions for Natural Body close to a show even as much as 1. 3 gram per pound of lean body mass could be an effective strategy but is very unlikely to be true and based on much of the review work done by Eman henselman for most people substantially lower than that seems to be good enough yep but in Japan they like to do Japanese things they do Japanese things and I think the paper I'm about to discuss might broadly overturn much of what I've said you've said meno said this is getting real embarrassing can we just bury this paper stop stop stop recording um see people for the most part based their recommendations off of a review paper by Morton and colleagues from 2018 where that paper's now gotten 1,200 citations so it's big stuff um and it mostly has to do with one it being a metanalysis and at the time being the most comprehensive one yet M which is great and also based on the sort of status of researchers involved like I think Brad shenfeld was on it a few big names were on it and then people like myself Jeff whatever everyone kind of got on it and because that was the best at the time started citing it that kind of turned into a bit of an echo chamber where people kept citing that same figure over and over again over and over again as we sometimes tend to do in the uh evidence-based Fitness Echo chamber however it turns out that four years later so in 2022 has been a more recent metanalysis on the topic back in 2018 Mort and colleagues had looked at a total of around 50 studies which is a big sample in specifically lifters who reported their protein intakes in these studies so who were lifting consistently were consuming protein and where they measured lean body mass or fat fat free Mass gains that was their measurement of choice um and they effectively ran a couple of analyses at the time they looked at a linear regression where effectively just looked the data points and using software you try and draw a line that will most closely fit those data points so you minimize the residuals the distance between that trend line and the individual data points what best predicts how much lean body mass people gain based on their protein intake yes making the best line um and that was a reasonable fit for the data but then the authors also went ahead and performed a basic line regression where effectively instead of saying it's one straight line it's two straight lines and you think that might be a better fit they did find that analysis was a better fit they didn't do a polinomial just those two analyses okay um so their first analysis linear regression as you expect like more protein more lean body mass gained to a certain like a certain slope um however the basic regression where you draw two lines instead to kind of represent okay maybe there's diminishing returns after a certain protein intake that did that was a better fit of the data the analysis was insignificant technically even say as much in the paper but they present it nevertheless because it's better fit and it's still better than just a simple line right but because of how they analyed it it effectively implied that up until 1.
6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight there is a benefit and afterwards it just flatlines sure no more benefit however that was kind of the best piece of research we had for four years but in 2022 tagawa and colleagues performed another metanalysis this time one conducting a better sort of analysis in terms of adjusting for confounders and two including more research so this time they didn't just look at research in lifters but also in research in non-li and they also just included more studies overall so specifically studies in lifters who were lifting consistently over the study and reported their protein intake they got a total of I think 72 studies so next couple crap even more research so that's enough research to be like okay the findings here are going to be pretty robust yeah right um and they had a couple different models where they adjust it for different confounders in their first model they adjust for no confounders second model they adjust it for things like age where the order you get the less sensitive you tend to become to protein uh sex Etc and in the third model they also then on top of that adjust it for the amount of body weight gained which is important right because if by if one group consume more protein but as a result also go into a surplus that amount of body weight gained can quickly influence not be a protein thing you know then you have to adjust for that anyways so let me walk you through results one when not adjusting for body weight gained both lifters and non-li saw more hypertrophy as they consumed more protein all the way to 1. 3 G per pound however in non- lifters once you then controlled for body weight gained that relationship kind of went away like P like I think 7 gram per pound if then you know gaining weight doesn't really matter right however in lifters when even when adjusting for body weight gained higher protein intakes led to more growth all the way to 1. 3 G per pound it was there was still an element of diminishing returns wherein the slope was kind of Greater up until around that previous figure of 1.
6 grams per kilogram or8 roughly and then afterwards it kind of the slope diminished but it was still positive and in fact running some rough numbers on that regression I want to say going from like5 G per pound to around what 04 to8 GS per pound that gave you around three times lean body mass gains so from I think4 kilog lean body mass gained on average over the course of the study to 1. 2 so triple roughly so that's like an appreciable difference right but then going from around 8 grams per pound which is the current kind of like the facto recommendation all the way to 1. 3 that still boosted growth by about 40% so 40% more growth by going from the current recommendation to a much higher one is a substantial difference huge and most people even if you go from 1 G per pound to 1.
3 it's still an appreciable difference in growth now that paper has only gotten 80 citations why because lesser known researchers e already know this kind of stuff yep so people are like oh Mort metag regression Mor regression everyone cting the same paper over and over again it's self- perpetuating but this paper came out two years ago far fewer citations not that many people know about it in fact it was Greg Knuckles who put me on to it I hadn't even heard of it that's Greg always knows a little fucking bullshit here there yeah um so yeah that's one big thing to the protein research that people aren't aware of and I think yes there are diminishing returns but people tend to think that it's a solved issue past that point like past one grand per pound the more benefit sometimes even less than that oh most people think even less than that spaceace I get clowned for saying a grand per pound people tell me that's too much and I used to say the same I used to think that but that is the strongest piece of research out there that's 70 studies now this is per pound or propound lean body mass propound propound so it's more protein than people think now a couple of kind of caveat sort of limitations to paper um some of them are actually not limitations even strengths but whatever one is often times in these studies I spoke to Y trlin about this directly because I was curious about opinion um a lot of these studies tend to use food Diaries typically people will under report protein intake based on food Diaries so if anything we might have a bit more research on higher protein intakes than the Met regression would have you believe just because people typically report it via food Diaries and people typically under report so in reality the numbers involved might be a bit higher still does that make sense wouldn't they be lower people also people will say they're having 100 grams but then if you actually went and looked at what they were actually having day today it might be 120 so what I mean is like in the studies reporting it might say that one group was having one gr per pound but in reality they were having 1 too so we have a bit more data on higher protein intakes and you're assuming that when people try to implement these they won't under report they be depends on how you see it okay I see I see but if you're saying okay these are precise people we're talking about very evidence-based people they're going to say look these people ate 100 grams of protein I don't eat anymore and like actually they ate 120 you're like oh shit well I've been accounting for all sources right exactly got it so that's one thing the second thing is I took a look at their statistics to figure out how many of of the studies included had sufficiently high protein intakes because one case you could make is that very few studies actually look at like one gram to 1. 3 grams per pound and so maybe it's just like we don't have enough research there to really know right yeah it's like saying if you uh you know if you climb a tree high enough you'll eventually get to the moon but the trees aren't tall enough to infer how shit Works in space exactly um so just to make sure that I wasn't just like looking at this graph and being like well this looks very conclusive to me I actually wanted to see how much data is that tail end based right and so I looked through the numbers and it looks like around 20% of the studies had a protein intake 20 25 in excess of one CR per pound oh that's solid so it's like that's if you do that times 70 studies that's 14 studies or whatever it is um so yeah there's obviously ideally we'd have even more research to forur in for where is that upper end but it's sufficient in my opinion to shift the recommendation at this stage I think think there's two recommendations we can derive from this paper one just like before there are diminishing returns past a certain point I think that point some how could there not be how much physiology do you have to not know to know there's diminish and Returns on almost every measured variable ever can you imagine a line where it was like that would be wild where is that apparently with volume According to some people one set is all you need that's it um so that's one thing is there is diminishing returns which gives birth to a practical recommendation for the average li who doesn't really want to care too much um and that's around 8 grams per pound you will see solid growth not your best but like solid and protein is expensive it's a pain to eat you know like oh go on are you in your Lambo right now looking down on the peasants my Lambo is actually made of protein because it makes it more expensive uh very nonfunctional um I I have time for that I think it's a wise thing to say but I have to say that almost everyone I've ever spoken to in real life who complains about how protein is expensive is at the fucking club several times a week buying drinks at the club and fellas like the marginal the relative cost of protein to other macronutrients at the store High m the absolute cost of protein as far as food in your diet especially you just buy Basics and lots of protein powders is nominal don't let me see that iPhone 16 in your handig homie if you're talking about protein expensive you feel me you know what I'm saying Milo like like if you're living in a developing Nation yeah hell yeah that's a thing but don't you come at me with Austria Germany Finland Sweden Japan and be like was the protein is quite expensive like shut up sure I get you if you're trying to be a mist or if you're broke it's a decent recommendation yes you know unlike MrLambo look I get protein fed to me like people pour protein drinks into my mouth because using my own hands is such a poor people think to do it's offensive I feel it that's recommendation number one now if you're uh wealthy Jeff basos entrepreneur then you want to go for the recommendation that is likely to maximize hypertrophy and in my opinion that's somewhere between 1 to 1. 3 Gams per pound we don't currently have enough Precision in our estimate in my opinion to say for sure like .
3 G is going to be miles better than one but I think as long as you're somewhere in that ballp of 1 to 1. 3 maybe even 1. 3 if you want to sort of head your bets I think you'll likely maximize your growth at that point until further research where we look at an excess of 1.
3 because that's kind of where the analysis was capped who knows maybe it's 1. 5 but for the time being I think if you're somewhere in the ballpark of 1 to 1. 3 that is a practical level that I would say you're approximately maximizing growth very curious every time I talk to you Milo I learn a ton of stuff and it's so rare for me because I'm so fucking smart I know almost everything he's got why are you laughing you son of a bitch he doesn't understand a lot of what I say he just Giggles every now and again try to fit in um this has been incredibly insightful and I suppose one question people might have is is there any research uh that tells us what fraction should be complete protein incomplete protein do you have any evidence-based opinions on that or just heuristics you can use yeah so from speaking to some of the experts on the topic and from looking through research myself unless you're following a severely restricted diet usually quality of protein sources is not overly worth worrying about like especially if you're consuming 1.
