[Music] this episode is brought to you by 99designs 99designs is the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together from logos to apps and packaging to ebooks 99designs is the go-to design resource for any budget I've used 99designs for many many years now I've used them for book covers for instance mock-ups For the 4-hour body which went on to become a number one near Times best seller illustrations for my multi-volume The Tao of Seneca and other graphic design projects and I've been really impressed by the quality of their designers
and the designs that I've been diffusing most recently I used 99 designs to update the illustrations and layouts of my five morning rituals eBook this covers my most consistent morning routines and rituals and I offer that as An incentive for people to sign up for my newsletter so this is a PDF bonus that acts as a carrot to increase the number of email subscribers the illustrations inside are gorgeous and I loved working with the designer who we selected for the project so you can check it out take a look at that at 99 designs com
forward slash Tim that's the number 99 designs com forward slash Tim and you can see exactly what I'm talking about with a real world example of what Has come out of work with them nunya and designs designer search tool connects you directly with one designer based on a design category or an industry specialization style skill level availability and more so you can really check all the boxes that you need and see who matches up or you can start a contest and that means you invite the entire community to take a shot at your project then
you pick your favorite right now you guys my listeners that is Can receive a free $99 up great on your first design contest so check it out to see what it looks like to get your first free upgrade please visit 99designs comm forward slash tim and click on the link in the landing page so again check it out 99designs dot-com forward slash Tim this episode is brought to you by peloton which I've been using probably for about a year now peloton is a cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings live studio classes Right into your home
you can also do on-demand which is what I do we'll come back to that so you don't have to worry about fitting classes into a busy schedule or making it to a studio or gym with a hectic or unpredictable commute I for instance have a peloton bike right in my master bedroom at home and it's one of the first things I do many mornings I wake up I meditate for a bit then I knock out a short 20 minute ride in my undies hard to do that at the gym Take a shower and I'm in
higher gear for the rest of the day it's really convenient and has become something that I look forward to so you have a lot of options for one if you like you can ride live with thousands of other riders across the country on an interactive leaderboard to keep you motivated there are also up to 14 new classes added every day with more than 8,000 classes on demand and you can pick based on length 45 minutes 20 minutes or Whatever music hip hop rock and roll or say low impact versus high intensity or interval you can
pick the class structure and style that works for you and in my case I quite like Matt Wilbur's and I tend to do on-demand and listen to a lot of and watch many of the same classes over and over but I'm kind of promiscuous and also enjoy classes from a lot of the other instructors they have peloton and amazing roster of incredible instructors in New York City With a whole range of styles and personalities so you can find what you're in the mood for you also get real-time metrics that you can use to track your
performance over time and that will help I would say catalyze you to beat your personal best now that all sounds good right gamification yadda yadda yadda I didn't think that it would work for me or in any way incentivize me but they really 100% hit the nail on the head I was very Very impressed with how motivating it was I know work tremendously to keep me pushing which quite honestly takes a fair I can get quite lazy particularly with anything that edges on endurance which is kind of more than five reps of anything for me
so check it out discover this cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings the studio experience right to your home peloton is offering listeners of this podcast a Limited time offer go to one peloton calm that's o-n-e peloton PE l oto and calm and enter the code Tim all caps at checkout and get $100 off of accessories with your policy on bike purchase so get a great workout at home anytime you want check it out go to one peloton calm and use the code Tim to get started hello boys and girls this is Tim Ferriss and welcome
to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show this is a very special episode because it represents the first Time that LeBron James has been interviewed alongside his very below the radar some might say top secret athletic trainer about details of training recovery diet and even how much longer he hopes to play in the NBA and I did not have as you might expect with King James the usual two and a half three three and a half four hours so it is a neat 60 minutes might come in a tad under that and I was nervous
and perhaps Even a little over-caffeinated to make the most of the time so you have that going for you LeBron James who is that at King James on Instagram and Twitter LeBron James calm is widely considered one of the greatest athletes of his generation and is regarded by some as the best basketball player of all time this interview was recorded the day after he passed Wilt Chamberlain's all-time scoring record LeBron's accomplishments on the court include Four NBA Most Valuable Player Awards MVP awards three NBA championships and three NBA Finals MVP awards two Olympic gold medals
and an NBA scoring title he is the all-time NBA playoff scoring leader and has amassed 14 NBA all-star game appearances 12 all-nba first team selections and 5 all-defensive first team honors throughout his career James has used his platform to inspire and empower others through his LeBron James Family Foundation but you can find it LeBron James Family Foundation org that helps at-risk students in his hometown earn life-changing education 'he's culminating most recently in the opening of his i promise school which you combine i promise dot school he's also involved a spring hill entertainment the entertainment company
he co-founded with maverick carter that produces compelling and aspirational content for a Cross-cultural audience on a variety of platforms including digital film television and uninterrupted in a digital media company he incurred a co-founded that provides athletes with a platform to tell their stories LeBron has a really diverse business portfolio we won't be able to get into all right now but includes all sorts of innovative endorsement deals and have established him as one of the most influential figures in all of sports James has appeared on Forbes list of the world's most powerful celebrities times annual list
of the 100 most influential people in the world and Bloomberg Business weeks 100 most influential people in sports and now LeBron along with Arnold Schwarzenegger Cindy Crawford and Olympic gold medalist Lindsey Vonn has founded ladder a health and wellness platform and brand that is launching today the site we are ladder com is a resource for reaching fitness Nutrition and health goals with tools and scientifically supported insights for addressing any frustrations or roadblocks along the way ladder also offers a community of experts for holding you accountable and nutrition products that are all NSF certified for sport
which is considered the gold standard for sports testing and approved by all major sports teams and the IOC that is the International Olympic Committee ladder products contain no Official ingredients no artificial sweeteners no fillers and no proprietary blends now allow me to introduce the other person in this interview and then we'll get right to it mike Mencius Mike mencius at Mike mencius one that's ma NC IAS on Instagram and Twitter is LeBron James athletic trainer and recovery specialist a position he's held for 14 years and Counting a veteran in the world of training professional basketball
players His experience also includes working with NFL MLB PGA and top NCAA athletes throughout his tenure with LeBron mike has quietly developed a winning human performance blueprint that encompasses everything from preventive medicine strength training and Rehab nutrition and the latest in recovery techniques some of which we talked about in this interview Mike's philosophy is one that is now commonly accepted by many athletes and Trainers as the ideal 360-degree approach to wellness and performance it was through this focus on nutrition performance and recovery that Mencius aided in developing the latter brand and its products originally from
Brownsville Texas Mencius attended the University of texas-pan American and graduated with a degree in health education he's licensed and nationally certified by the accredited National Athletic Trainers Association and is a 14 year member of The National Basketball League trainers association that is the introduction and without further ado please enjoy this wide-ranging conversation with none other than King James LeBron James and Mike Mencius LeBron and Mike welcome to the show thanks to thank you're having this appreciate thank you but my pleasure I am thrilled to have the two of you on in part because it is
so difficult to do research on the two of you together which is fascinating to me Mike you're like the banksy of elite trainers I see your your art that is the product of the work that you do on television and everywhere but you are like Batman it's impossible to do research on you which is is really exciting for me as someone who's made a job of doing that so I thought we could jump right into questions on my mind and questions on many minds and we'll begin with a little bit of context and maybe LeBron
if you want to take this how did The two of you first meet you seem to have a very special relationship I'd love to just get a little bit of background and your thoughts on what makes the relationship work so well yeah my second year in the NBA with the Cavs Mike was was interning with the Cavs at the time and you know every day you kind of I was trying to figure out a way how I could be more consistent with my training and be more consistent with you know just trying to make the
jump from Our rookie my second year and you know not only from afar but from up close I I saw the the demeanor and the laser focus and mic every single day on what he was doing and I kind of resonated with that and I just you know we started to have conversations we started to talk more and more every day and the relationship started to grow every single single day and you know I believe you know know the rest is history at this room so you two Have done so much together spend so much
time together Mike I'd love to dig into I suppose more than a few things but to begin with recovery and injury prevention I mean LeBron he had such a momentous evening last night so congratulations of course on that and you're a bit of a unicorn in the sense that you've played more than as I understand a 50,000 minutes in your career most hit a wall and deteriorate after say 40,000 so you're defying all The predictions of player decline so Mike maybe you can give us a window into some of that and I've in the course
of trying to do research read about say recovery between games which I've picked up maybe not true electro-stimulation machines air pumped compression sleeves soft tissue could you walk us through some of the tools of the trade and the approaches that you use to help with recovery in between games yeah yeah well I think with with the Brawn with any any You know elite athlete I think the one thing that we all as trainers and therapists have to keep in mind is that recovery never ends recovery never stops you know if it were brown plays 40
minutes one night if he plays you know 28 minutes one night we're still going to keep recovery as a number one focus whether that being nutrition or a bean hydration more flexibility exercises stuff in the weight room it's it's it's never-ending process really and I think That's the approach that we must take in order for us to be six and provide longevity for these guys mm-hmm and if if we look at just say the first few hours after a particularly intense games what what is what is some of the triage that you pull out if
your your bag to use well we'll do like a quick you a in in the locker room I kind of get a quick assessment as to okay out of the game go you know how I was this feeling how was this feeling et cetera And LeBron and gave me some feedback on how we felt after each and every game believe it or not so we'll do that number one and then we'll start our process of hydration and nutrition you know cuz he's uh he does spend a lot of energy up there so we need to
make sure that that would feed him the right the right calories calories in like a protein shake etc you know a water or a sports drink and then number one frankly just some Good food some good high-quality food so that's that's the number one right like right off the bat after a game it's a it's a nutrition from there we're going to you know like a crowd therapy either cold tank ice bags crowd therapy chamber you know whatever may be available at that particular night mm-hmm and if we're looking at general injury prevention are there
any particular and I'll give one example I've interviewed a number of Olympic sprint coaches and in Some cases they'll take something like the deadlift but they'll they'll modify it so that they're only lifting to the knee and they'll drop so they're not risking hamstring injuries with the negatives are there any particular exercises that you feel are tremendously important for injury prevention or any that you avoid because you think that they could produce injuries well I think with that question I think every athlete is different you know based on their you Know just just based on
their on your body makeup and so we have to number one you know before even prescribe many exercises we have to do a quick other body you know is do they have any factors that are limiting the range of motion will start you know will start from the very bottom and that's that's the Victo you know how much movies do you have in your picked oh and then you go up the chain you know the ankle the knee of the hip the low back In the shoulders etc once you get a quick assessment then you
can start to you know kind of tweak your your workout routine by adding or subtracting uh you know different exercises the second part of that is okay who are you dealing with you know LeBron ceman in the league this is he starting his sixteenth year in the NBA he's played a lot of minutes a high you know high quality minutes and so you know you just have to be smart as to your your prescription mm-hmm And LeBron do you think that if you look at for instance the big names that came into the league around
the same time that you did it's it's staggering to see how few of them are still playing and yet here you are playing as the best in the NBA are there any particular approaches you've taken or things that you attribute that to well I can't speak on any other players or anybody came in around my time or a little bit after me or not too far when I came in but I know Me personally I've just been very consistent with the process I've been very consistent with training my body rehabbing my body you know eating
you know you know having my body be very clean throughout this journey because I've always wanted to have a long you know long career or as long as I could be you know in in this in this in this in this space so I've always kind of you know some a friend of mine when I was like 13 years old he's always tell me You know play hard have fun and stretch you know every game always play hard have fun and stretch and that kind of always kind of stuck with me till when even I
got an NBA like always stretching and keeping my body flexible keeping my limbs flexible so it you know I can contribute to that and doing it consistently just like leadership you know leadership is not a one-day thing or you do it for two days or two months leadership is consistent you know an Apple you know have a longevity in the space that I'm me and is also consistency as well not only on the floor but off the floor as well so glad you mentioned leadership I was going to get to it but since we're already
on topic I spotted a picture of you with a copy of leadership in turbulent times which is a book by Doris Kearns Goodwin who's also been on the podcast and I've had a number of people ask me to ask you about Leadership are there any particular leaders you admire or or look to and study who come to mind you know what's crazy Tim I never grew up looking for other leaders and saying I want to beat them or or using what they did to incorporate it into me I believe that it was you know it
was put on me before I even wanted to be a leader my grandmother passed away when I was three years old and she was kind of a staple at home And my mother had me when she was 16 but she was still in school so you're not being the only child being one of the few men in the house I kind of had to grow up and be kind of one of the leaders of the household very young before I even wanted to before you were on any cow any child to become a leader and
then once you get into team sports and you you find some success but you see how you're succeeding you understand that it's not just about you you Understand that you know in order for you to continue to be successful everyone has to feel important everyone wants to you know feel like they had something to do with the success and be a part of it and I sense that you know at an early age and it's just continued until you know my adulthood as well so I can't even sit here and say that I look you
know for leadership throughout others not I've admired leaders like you know Martin Luther King he's one of the Greatest leaders I've ever had an opportunity to just read about and watch from afar obviously you know Muhammad Ali as well you know as one Barack Obama is another and being my mother I mean I believe my mother is one of the greatest leaders and just in the fact that being a single parent mother in the inner city without any financial stability and being able to raise a kid on her own at age 16 so I had
you know those examples but for me I've always Kind of learned on the fly as well your mother the more I've done research the more incredible your mother seems to me how is how has she impacted the way that you think about parenting or being a father I'm wall from the beginning you know being a part of a single-parent household when I you know when I found when I've decided I want to have a family you know I was like I'm always gonna be a part of my kid's life and no Matter what what goes
on in my life I just can't you know having my kids have some of the same why questions that I had when I was younger and then it's about you know the perseverance and the patience of being a parent is what I learned from my mom my mom was just so persevering and for me she never had me in a situation where I felt like I wasn't special like I wasn't wanted to do the best kids in the world and and then from you know the like I said that Leadership standpoint she was just always
a rock no matter what was going on she was always a rock and very patient with the process and I and I've taken that not only to being a father but you know in life in general always preach this process thing because I I just fell in love with it I fell in love with the process throughout my whole life and throughout my basketball career to a point where I don't I don't like to look At the ending you know because I like to just live in the moment and it's the I think the consistency
which is is is such a focus for a lot of at least my listeners when they're looking at your career it's it's been astonishing to watch over time and many people want to know about the habits or the reminders things along these lines and one of the things I came across I don't know if it's true you could tell me but did you it's at one point have Theodore Roosevelt's man in the arena quote in your locker still do you still do why why is riding a riot on my shoes every game - all right
why is that important to you it just hit home for me at a point in time where I was listening to people that I shouldn't be listening to meaning you know there are always people out there they're gonna judge you and critique you and say that you should do this or you shouldn't do that and and at that point in time you know I wasn't Mature enough to just believe in with the decisions that I've made and I'm a true believer in the more and more that you listen to things like that then it equipment
to your mind you start to believe it and once I started to study some of the great leaders that we've had in our in our in our time I ran across that that quote from Theodore Roosevelt a man in an arena in it basically for our listeners that don't know about it's basically saying that it it truly Doesn't matter what anyone says because they they've never stepped inside the arena they've never had the blood and the sweat and the tears or paid a dues inside the arena so they can't really understand or critique you about
what your was going on in your life and that and that hit home for me and that stuck with me for you know to this day yeah it's such a tremendous tremendous quote Mike I'd love to come back to something you mentioned earlier which was recovery Never ending and if I'd like to talk about the I suppose third of our lives or so that we spend asleep is there is there how do you think about sleep and is there anything you do to optimize sleep or to help LeBron and others to optimize their sleep oh
by the way Timmy gets on me every single day my sleep here last night how much sleep how much sleep you get to nine hours all the time yeah by the way that that muffling you hear in the background is LeBron Actually removing ice bags oh yes I like like we just said recovery never stops right well we're sitting here doing this podcast in Los Angeles and LeBron is continuing to ice his knees and the rest of his body right now in the middle of this podcast and so Mike I'd love to hear your thoughts
on sleep this is something that a lot of people struggle with and it would seem to be a very important potential asset for someone who is taxing his body as Much as LeBron is absolutely yeah I mean um you know we've always learned and what I was told abroad about the body does recover and it heals itself while while we're asleep while we reach our REM sleep in our deep sleep so any athlete any and you know I have to be professional athlete you know whatever athlete at whatever level you can be a businessman and
doctor lawyer cetera you know you need your sleep guys and you you must sleep in order to recover from From whatever it is either playing an NBA game or you know a big night or a big day in the courtroom you know in the hospital rooms whatever you know sleeping is when the body heals itself so it's it's it's it's very very important are there any particular techniques or tools or recommendations that that you found to be helpful with athletes or that you've you've tested and found effective yeah you know with without you know you've
given everybody All of our secrets right um you know number one is be very accountable you know in in that room you know just create an environment you know for us it's always you know for LeBron it's always in this hotel room making sure the temperature set at a particularly you know probably 68 to 70 degrees is probably optimal making sure the room is completely dark you know you have no distractions trying to turn off you know your your electronics your all your Electronics in these artists televisions you know your phones etc just turn everything
off probably half hour to 45 minutes before you actually you know want to go to sleep and just really committing yourself to that you know and we all love the scroll on the internet and in our social media accounts at night you know to catch up on everything but you know you owe it to yourself and you want to your recovery just to just to commit to just creating An environment again the room at are applicable temperature a dark dark room you know a comfortable bed etc and you know it's some people that even use
sleep apps you know I you know like soft music or you know I love it I love a nicely back oh yeah what do you what what do you use LeBron currently or what dude is the app called calm actually did I yeah yeah and and and I'm the I'm the guy who picks rain on leaves I love it that's what go that's what goes on am I Follow throughout the night random radar leaves the secret to success I love it and look LeBron what has become more important to you from a health or wellness
perspective as you've become older more seasoned does anything come to mind us as having become more important yeah absolutely just we talking about right now at a topic that we don't sleep I mean it's nothing more important than you know optimal REM sleep and that's with us exactly retama Right now like you know that's the best way for your body to physically and emotionally be able to recover and get back to a hundred percent as possible now will you wake up and feel 100 percent there's some days you don't some some days you feel better
than others but the more and more and more time that you get those eight those even if you can get nine that's amazing sometimes I even get 10 hours of sleep and if I don't get those eight to nine hours at Night then I'll go home I'm I'm gonna tell you right now it's in when I leave here I'm gonna go home and take me a nap for probably two and a half hours to I just think that's just the best way to recover I mean is it I could do all the training I can
do all the the ice bags and the the Norma texts and every we do that we have as far as our recovery package while I'm up but when when you're getting that good sleep and you just wake up and you feel fresh There's you don't need alarm clock you just feel like okay I can I can tackle this day at the highest level that you can get to it one thing I've also seemed to pick up just as a pattern is your willingness to experiment and I'm sure that goes for both of you but the
the topic of diet is one I'd love to discuss because it seems like you've tested many different diets ranging from low-carb to probably high carb and everything in between could you give us an example of Where you are now like let's take just yesterday could you tell us about some of the meals that you had or some of the food that you consume yesterday what that looks like well let me let me think about it yeah yesterday I had a white omelet with the with smoked salmon and gluten-free pancakes with just berries that was my
breakfast for lunch I had whole wheat pasta salmon and vegetables and right before the game I had a peanut butter And jelly sandwich and I have time I had sliced apples with almond butter on top right after the game Mike gave me a protein shake to put in my system right after I downed that right after the game last night and then for dinner I had I had chicken parm with a rocket salad and a beautiful glass of Cabernet you have no idea how happy that detail makes me thank you for this that was my
full day of uh yeah that was it right there you also have a Very good memory and and I've been meaning to I wasn't sure how to shoehorn this in but you gave me an opening you enjoy your wine no do you have any favorite wines that you can that you can mention or types of wines I have so many gem I can't stay here and say what is my favorite but I am definitely a board of fan huge board Oh fan they are some you know cabs that I love as well but there's some
brands that I love as well I love you know we Get to the higher level as far as you know like screaming eagle you know Keith or Ellie you know Rothschild there's like a whole Latour there's so many different wines that I actually love so we really sitting here all day Maya of my cellar and I got going on at home that's that's round two King James sommelier that'll be the next is there is there anything that and this this this can go out to either of you guys but anything that you will not Touch
is there but besides the obvious kind of out of bounds illicit stuff but are there any foods or drinks anything in the food realm that you really just try to avoid a hundred percent yeah I think right now we'll we try to stay away from and you know I don't want to say even try to stay away from we haven't had in a long time it's artificial drinks artificial sugars and fried foods I know we kind of stay away from the fried foods at least during the Season and and that's to both yes to both
accounts you know I have you know artificial drinks you know from time to time in offseason but during a season I pretty much don't have any fried foods and I don't have anything that's artificial we want to keep it as uh you know as you know just natural sugars and you know the foods is as much as possible just try to be clean as possible throughout the season when I'm burning it so much and trying to get the Recovery but it's it's it's all about less as more as far as nutrition goes you know we
just keep it simple so we try to stay organic the entire year again like like a run just mention no artificial ingredients you know and just the hydration I think one thing that we talked about yesterday's game day was that every every time I saw bran I had a bottle of water in his face making sure he was drinking mm-hmm that's one thing And Mike I want to come back to one thing that LeBron mentioned I would I'd be very curious to know if you have postgame if you have a preferred type of protein doesn't
have to be a brand although it could be but are you providing whey protein isolate are you providing a mixture of different proteins what what are you giving him in that protein that protein shake right after a game I travel I try to go light with it I don't give him a heavy whey Protein because his body is in a recovery phrase right and he needs to absorb everything that he can everything clean like we just mentioned so I try to give him a plant-based protein powder you know with like an almond milk or something
like that some fruits and just just clean calories him just just giving clean calories because the first 30 minutes after activity you know after a game after a practice practice etc you know the body's like a sponge and it's Gonna absorb you know whatever you give it so I just try to stay clean stay away from my animal products for the first hour you know after after a high calorie composition thank you but LeBron I would love to chat about self talk for a minute because I've I've watched you playing I've watched video footage of
you throughout your life and it's it's obvious to me at least it seems that that there's quite a bit going on behind Behind the scenes meaning in your own head and that you're very good at centering yourself what do you say to yourself or is there anything in particular that you say to yourself as you're getting prepared for a big game or right before a big game or after a hard loss for instance yeah I think for me personally before a big game um I'm pretty consistent with my routine and you're not trying to do
the same thing Every single day on a game day because that's just how I lock in and so right before I write on the floor I'm just basically thinking about the game plan that the culture staff has given us what do I need to do personally not only for me to be successful for my teammates to ultimately be successful in homily these guys throughout good times and bad times or the course of a game because that's what happens it's inevitable that that's going to happen and then to your notion Of after a bad loss kind
of read thinking about and replaying the game to my head what happened throughout the course of the game that made this loss become a bad loss what did i do what did I not do what did we not do you know because I want to be better I don't want to dwell on that loss but I do want to know what there were things that I could have done or we could have done to prevent it if it happens next time because I always Preach you know the best teacher in life is experienced and and
it's okay for you to experience defeat but when you you're at a position where you may have to cross that threshold again do you approach it the same way or do you learn from that and that's what I try to do I try to put myself in a mental state of how do I learn from that defeat how do I learn from that loss mm-hmm and and you're the leader of guys on a team who are all multimillionaires some of the Best athletes in the world with all sorts of different personalities how do you how
do you think about supporting them when things go sideways or when people get frustrated how do you that have you learned to be most helpful and effective in those circumstances I think if one number one thing is patience and I think when I talk about patience it comes back to being a father you know I have three kids and I want the best out of my kids just like any parent in The world but what I've learned is that to get the best out of my three kids I can't approach them all the same way
because they all have different personalities they all are different and had to find out how to I tap into each one of my kids to get the same result but teach them differently and that's the same with being the leader of a basketball team the leader of a franchise you may not you can't you can't express or talk to everyone the Same way and expect to get the same result or get the most out of them because every personality is different so one thing I may say that one player may trigger a certain different response
than another player and that's what the patience comes in 10 because you have to learn that you can't go in and say this is how I'm a lead yes I'm a leader but there's ways to lead because you have to learn those things that you can you know how do you approach this manner if this Happens you know how you can speak to him you know how you can speak to to this player to that player to get what you want to get out of them so it comes back to that that patience of learning
their mindsets learning how can you get the most out of them what triggers them to be best to be their best what triggers them to not be their best so you learn that over time and in the case of your own pregame routine I am fascinated by the repetition of routines That work as it as it stands right now what what do you have in your pregame playlist what is what is what is the music that that you listen to it's gonna be hip-hop for sure any state any specifics know if there's you know as
crazy Tim is know specifics it's like when I when I once I start my routine but basically once I get to the arena that's when I start my routine as far as music it's just it's a field for an artist that particular time that I know It's gonna get me going and it could be an artist from from New York it could be an artist from California it could be an artist from Florida from Texas from the Midwest it all depends on what what artist pops into my head that I know there's gonna get me
going get my juices flowing and get get my routine going so I don't have like it's just a set game day routine I'm all over the place and that's that comes also from being a historian Of music as well mm-hmm what is what is your tattoo I've wanted to ask this there's no real obvious segue for this but I've wanted to know this seems to be an important theme in your life that the tattoo that you have loyalty on your side can you explain what that means to you yeah you know my other side it
says families yeah you know it's basically it's self-explanatory you know when I talk about my family you know my family is Everything to me and it's a personal mantra of mine to always be loyal to my family you know not you know you're gonna have ups and downs with your family that happens there's gonna be times where you you know you don't like what your family do or your family don't likes what you do but at the end of the day we're all loyal to to one another and you know and that's okay that happens
that's what a family is a family you know it's not a bed of roses it Comes with thorns and you have to understand that but at the end of the day we will never let someone else infiltrate those thorns and you know so when I got that tattooed on my on my ribs that's basically what it came down to family loyalty and us always sticking together no matter the trials and tribulation is the turbulence the good the bad ugly the sunshine and the thunderstorms so that's what it came Down to and and Mike if I
could use that to lead into a question for you how do you support your athletes when they're going through a difficult time whether that is an injury an unexpected setback psychologically having trouble contending with something that has that has happened whether it's on the court or off the court are there any particular approaches that you've found to be helpful a whether it's in the last few years or just over the course of Your career yeah I think I think the the number one thing for me has always been remained consistent remain consistent through the ups
and downs and everything in between as LeBron said you know because they're there if there is a setback if there is you know something something going on you know I always have to remain consistent with with my job and with what I do now I can always add or augment you know something that that I feel might be beneficial you Know if it's something as small as uh I don't know a certain gift of kindness you know just asking about the family you know are things okay outside of basketball are things okay outside of you
know the athletic realm the effete ik world and just try to just try to be there for him I'm just trying through again it's all great when you know we're scoring forty five points a night and doing all these all these wonderful things but is the athlete okay is Thatthe Lee doing well mentally and spiritually and so I I try I try to address it you know in a multi-faceted fashion mm-hmm and for for you Mike in the offseason how do your priorities change if at all for say LeBron in terms of training and anything
else that comes to mind I think in the offseason we have to be smart you know LeBron gives everything he has for these nine months you know and so my job was to be is to be smart about what We're doing as far as a volume of training that we're doing you know and how much I see him although we do you know tend to see each other pretty much every other day in the summer time but it's it's what we're doing and it's you know managing engage in his body throughout the summer time yeah
he's a lot more calm than I am Tim in the summit consistently tells me hey listen man you need to take a little bit more time off we just went for nine and a Half three months and I know do you LeBron have any any particular favorite exercises or forms of physical recreation in the offseason I've read about yoga Pilates verse a climber has come up a lot are there other are there any any particular ingredients that let you like to regularly inject into your offseason yeah besides the Versa climber I actually really like running
on the football field mm-hmm for two reasons Your outside which is always a cool way to to exercise and then it kind of takes me back to my high school days of playing the game of football yeah you know and and I just have a huge deep love of the game of football so you know get being able to get that conditioning and get that cardio being outside but also being back on a football field it just does something for me personally and what what might one of those workouts look like are you doing 400
Meter repeats are you doing long steady and slow what type it's more like hundred yard Sprint's mm-hmm you know from end zone to end zone and we we don't never have like a set number of how many we want to do but we do enough to we want to get our heart rate going you know while we out there and how do you how do you decide when to stop because that would seem to be really critical for like you say like you hear Mike just say he pulls the rings he says Okay now that's
enough Mike a name that's come up a lot in doing research for this conversation is Tim Grover and could you explain who that is and what you've what you've learned from him well me growing up you know I'll take it back a little bit you know I was a big Jordan fan you know Chicago Bulls and so I was in my own research know back when you know all you had was you know you know press instead of in the internet and so I was doing just asking around you know Reading you know reading up
on Jordan and the stuff that he was doing for his body so his name came up a lot of times and so I finally I gathered the stones to to get to reach out to Tim you know just some somehow I tracked down his number and I told what I wanted to do I want to learn from him and he says okay well why don't you come up to Chicago and you know kind of intern or intern for us for for a couple of weeks and MJ will be with us he'll be Getting ready to
work with the Washington Wizards you know he just signed his deal with the Wizards and so I'm gonna love doing that so you're more than welcome to come up and you know thank God thank God that I caught Tim in a great mood that day and so you know so he invited me up to Chicago and I spent a few weeks with him with him and with along with MJ and I learned a lot I learned a lot in those two weeks I learned you know how to how To work with an elite athlete of
Michael stature so it was it was invaluable I learned what to do what not to do what you know stuff I should stay away from yourself I should really augment so it was a great education great educational experience for me in terms of things to stay away from was there anything that sticks out in your mind as a key learning or takeaway in that department or it could be one of the other categories but is there any anything Specific that that that comes to mind anything specific as far as natholi training working with with an
athlete of that caliber is to remain consistent to remain consistent you know it there's no particular exercise there's no particular stretch it's all about your own mindset and your own confidence working with someone like Mike and out obviously working with someone like like they're like LeBron so it's all about how to approach it mentally and how to Be consistent for that athlete again just just be that rock consistency he says this this is a good opportunity all right go ahead and available and available you know 24/7 I may wake up at like 3 o'clock in
the morning want to get a workout in yeah on the on-demand which which I think it is a good window to start chatting about a new collaboration that you're both involved with LeBron you've you've become a very active Businessman and investor over the course of your career and there are many things we could discuss lated to that but one that I think is very relevant to our conversation right now is is ladder and there are a lot of people out there who are constantly asking themselves and every time they get to New Year's make resolutions
related to loving and not dreading fitness and wellness and if trying to try to find a way to attack it that Leads them to passion and not feeling burdened with responsibility could could you guys and either one of you can can grab this explain what ladder is and and what is what is the purpose behind it um I think with the but with the whole idea behind ladder and you know starting this company m''d way back probably around 2014 we were kind of in a crossroads of okay what else could we add to our to
our to our to our routine as far as nutrition goes you know I felt like we Were just beginning to scratch the surface as to what was available out there but unfortunately we found that you know some of the stuff that that that's out there you know they are these big companies have all these proprietary blends and we weren't sure you know okay what what exactly is in these proprietary blends and so you know we will start we will start with the company but we start with something off the shelf that was NSF certified but
you Know we just didn't didn't want to take the chance of you know to continue to use these products and so we don't we got together with LJ and said you know let's really do some more research as to what what is out there that that is not available for us in and why not and so we started to do some more research after 2014 when unfortunately he experienced you know that the the the much publicized and critiqued cramping game 2014 during the finals you know That's when LeBron and I really got together and said
okay what are we missing here you know what why we cramped in here we're doing everything we can for hydration now let's let's let's dive deeper into this because it's obviously affecting our performance and our productivity you know maybe to some degree cost us the championship so we started doing like I said more and more research as to what's out there and just we finally came up With with the right ingredients and you know what like we mentioned earlier we kept it simple town we kept it really really simple and very transparent to the public
as to what what we were what's what's in these products right and it's it's you mentioned a few things that I want to underscore for folks also you know the NSF certified for sport just you know effectively considered the gold standard for testing and approved by not only the major sports teams but The IOC and so on so for for for competitors extremely important to know exactly what you're putting into your bodies for any any number of of reasons but and and for for people who are looking for the supplementation or tools to augment their
physical activity you've you've also assembled a very strong team of founders it says wearing if you could chat a little bit about the the people involved and why that particular team has been assembled for This well I can I could talk about that Tim you know obviously two of our founders are honest Orson Egger and Cindy Crawford and and not to speak up on Arnold for one we we've been in business for quite a while now together to a mutual friend of ours and obviously his history of what he's done in history as far as
nutrition and and and in training and things that goes without even know that without even talking about we know how unbelievable he's been In his career so that that makeup and that match fit perfectly and also the same with Cindy Crawford as well you know she's you know been doing the Wellness and the health and in the training and everything she's been doing throughout her whole life and it made sense for her to be a part of the team as well and we also have you know Lindsey Vonn as well you know one of the
greatest you know athletes of her John room in her craft As well so we wanted to be able to assemble not only people that has actually live this life but also people that people can relate to as well so it all made sense for all of us mm-hmm and looking at the the materials that that I reviewed the the the message in effect of life is a work out and recognizing that the physical part of your life is really part of everything right I mean it is that it is the vehicle for everything else and
your mind is part of Your body so if you want to care for that you also have to care for the overall package that is your physical totality I is LeBron you must have thousands of opportunities come to you and get pitch to you I would imagine on not just a annual basis but a monthly or weekly basis I mean you could drown in the number of pitches you would receive why is this important to you Blackie goes back to what Mike was speaking upon you know we had that that moment during The finals we
were kind of mind boggling because we we know how much you know we know how much we take care of the body we know how much we you know put into the body what we put into our body we know how much liquids and throughout throughout the whole day and for that to happen at a very important moment in my career we were searching for answers and for us to get to this point now where we found the answers I told Mike listen you go out and do the research I trust you outbid with you
for over a decade plus now only thing I ask is that we make sure that everything is clean because that's you know that's what's most important in anything you know I you know I've trained my body we've trained our body throughout this whole process and you know my body more than I know it so that's how it all got started and I think you know everything that I've ever done tim has always been authentic to myself I mean you know Authentic to what do on a day-to-day basis if it's from you know a few years
ago having a bike-a-thon in my hometown is it all steamed from me training riding mountain bikes in the summertime for getting back into shape you know so that's what how that came about if it's anything I've done in my career has always been authentic to who I am you look at like you said some of the things that I'm doing now as far as The production of TV shows and things of that nature is stems from me loving TV and loving the fact that being to engage people's mind and emotions and things that nature is
authentic to myself and that's what that's what ladder is all about as well mm-hmm and it is ladder also going to have an editorial resource component because of the the the URL we are ladder calm as I understand it is is also going to have a lot of answers to questions with scientifically supported Responses to topics ranging from you know fitness nutrition to various types of health problems how do you envision you know Mike maybe if you want to chat yeah on that side of things how do you how do you envision that serving people
and what would people go there to find yeah I mean it's a you know we want to provide a one-stop shop for for athletes and for you know for everyone else you know who's interested in in maybe you know getting some sort of gain from from Not only a product but but from just a lifestyle stance here you know we can all improve could all improve and in whatever field that we're in whether we take it by leaps and bounds over tell you by inches we get all could all improve and part of it is
creating that environment you know but by environment I mean that website you know the social media stuff where athletes can go in and and tap into our resources and our resources you know it can be a panel of Experts in their field you know and not only athletic performance but you know social behavior psychological behaviors mental stuff it's all vital it's not vital and it's more about the athletic realm it's about living your best life I guess you know and improving this is mice's something that that fits a very particular sort of Venn diagram for
me which is something that was born out of the two of you scratching your own itch right you Mentioned the the cramping in 2014 and I I'm always most interested when a service or product is born out of an unaddressed need an unmet need from one of the founders themselves and it seems like you'll be making tools available to people that would otherwise well perhaps be be limited to some of these high level athletes you mentioned and that's exciting I would I would also be remiss if I didn't ask you LeBron and will I know
we We have just a few minutes left here but how many more years would you like to play I would love to see the floor with my son mm-hmm my son is in eighth grade now if he continues on the path that he's on right now he could possibly be in the NBA in five six years so amazing we that would be that would be an unbelievable moment for her now and myself but for my family for my for everybody so we see I was taking care of the body Is number one and we will
you know do that but more importantly taking care of the mind if your mind's not fresh then your body a fall at the waistline so do to do the grace of the man above and to everything that myself and Mike and you know cannot support team do that would be that would be pretty dang on cool if I'm able to be on the NBA floor with my uh my oldest son that would be amazing well I look forward to watching that and you guys have been very generous with Your time I appreciate you making it
happen and I'm very excited to see what both of you do and what ladder does people can find ladder at we are ladder comm of course LeBron you're everywhere at King James on Twitter and Instagram LeBron on Facebook Mike I'm not sure smoke signals a carrier pigeon how should people how should people find you if there is a way to find you or should they just just watch your good deeds through the Through the athletes that you work with you know what I think our body of work together you know we will abound in the
court I think that's that's that that's proof proof in itself if you do want to follow on Instagram it's it's my fanciest one and that's instead thing I have the same Twitter handle as well perfect I'm pretty sure it's it's all good it's all good and it's an exciting journey for me absolutely beautiful Right and I will link to everything we've discussed people listening in the show notes as per usual Tim top block forward slash podcast and LeBron we didn't have time today to get into the Family Foundation but you're doing incredible work and I
want to just thank you among many other thanks for doing so much for the kids of Akron I think it's it's really tremendous I've looked very closely at it myself for the inspiration for things I hope to do so I appreciate You putting that much time and effort and care back into the community that you came from appreciate it Sam thank you very much all right well guys I will let you get running you have you have icing to do you have who knows who knows what else to get done in the meantime and I
wish you both the best of luck and look forward to seeing what you guys do thank you thanks very much bye-bye hey guys this is Tim again just a few More things before you take off number one this is five bullet Friday do you want to get a short email from me and would you enjoy getting a short email for me every Friday and that provides a little morsel of fun before the weekend and five bullet Friday is a very short email where I share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over
the week that could include favorite new albums that I've discovered it could include gizmos and gadgets and All sorts of weird [ __ ] that I've somehow dug up in the the world of the esoteric as I do it could include favorite articles that I've read and that I've shared with my close friends for instance and it's very short it's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend so if you want to receive that check it out just go to 4-hour workweek dot-com that's 4-hour workweek calm I'll spell out
and just drop in if your email And you'll get the very next one and if you sign up I hope you enjoy it this episode is brought to you by peloton which I've been using probably about a year now peloton is a cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings live studio classes right into your home you can also do on demand which is what I do we'll come back to that so you don't have to worry about fitting classes into a busy schedule or making it to a studio or gym with a Hectic or unpredictable commute
I for instance have a peloton bike right in my master bedroom at home and it's one of the first things I do many mornings I wake up I meditate for a bit then I knock out a short 20 minute ride in my undies Hart do that at the gym take a shower and I'm in higher gear for the rest of the day it's really convenient and has become something that I look forward to so you have a lot of options for one if you like you can ride live With thousands of other riders across the
country on an interactive leaderboard to keep you motivated there are also up to 14 new classes at it every day with more than 8,000 classes on demand and you can pick based on length 45 minutes 20 minutes whatever music hip-hop rock and roll or say low-impact versus high intensity or interval you can pick the class structure and style that works for you and in my case I quite liked Matt Wilber And I tend to do on-demand and listen to a lot of and watch many of the same classes over and over but I'm kind of
promiscuous and also enjoy classes from a lot of the other instructors they have peloton an amazing roster of incredible instructors in New York City for the whole range of styles and personalities so you can find what you're in the mood for you also get real-time metrics that you can use to track your performance over time and that will help I would say Catalyze you to beat your personal best now that all sounds good right gamification yadda yadda yadda I didn't think that it would work for me or in any way and sin devised me but
they really 100% hit the nail on the head I was very very impressed with how motivating it was and it worked tremendously to keep me pushing which quite honestly takes a fair amount I can get quite lazy particularly with anything that edges on endurance which Is kind of more than five reps of anything for me so check it out discover this cutting-edge indoor cycling bike that brings the studio experience right to your home peloton is offering listeners to this podcast a limited time offer go to one peloton comm that's full and a peloton PE L
OTO and.com and enter the code Tim all caps at checkout and get $100 off of accessories with your polish on bike purchase so get a great workout At home anytime you want check it out go to one peloton calm and use the code Tim to get started this episode is brought to you by 99designs 99designs is the global creative platform that makes it easy for designers and clients to work together from logos to apps packaging to books 99designs is the go-to design resource for any budget I've used 99designs for many many years now I've used
them for book covers for instance mock-ups For the 4-hour body which went on to become a number one New Times bestseller illustrations for my multi-volume the Tao of Seneca and other graphic design projects and I've really impressed by the quality of their designers and the designs that I've been using most recently I use 99 designs to update the illustrations and layouts of my five morning rituals eBook this covers my most consistent morning routines and rituals and I offer that as An incentive for people to sign up for my newsletter so this is a PDF bonus
that acts as a carrot to increase the number of email subscribers the illustrations inside are gorgeous and I loved working with the designer who we selected for the project so you can check it out take a look at that at 99 designs comp or slash Tim that's the number 99 designs com forward slash Tim but you can see exactly what I'm talking about with a real world example of what Has come out of work with them nunya and designs designer search tool connects you directly with one designer based on the design category or an industry
specialization styles the level availability and more so you can really check all the boxes that you need and see who matches up or you can start a contest and that means you invite the entire community to take a shot at your project then you pick your favorite right now you guys my listeners that is Can receive a free $99 upgrade on your first design contest so check it out to see what it looks like to get your first free upgrade please visit 99designs dot-com for Tim and click on the link in the landing page so
again check it out 99 designs dot-com forward slash temp you you
