Hello and welcome to today's sifted talks um that is being carried out in partnership with the Royal Academy of engineering Enterprise hubs my name is De I'm sifted French Tech reporter based in Paris um and it's my pleasure to be moderating this talk today looking at how deep teexs are navigating the current market and context um of course we're living in a particular world with at once some pretty complex political Tensions that have a direct impact on how deep Tex can grow expand commercialize Etc um but I say it's also a time where we're having
unprecedented amounts of funding and excitement from European VCS and VCS across the world really um from Enterprises and from governments about what deep Tex can do um and by deepex we're obviously going to be talking about um a wide variety of deep teexs obviously the AI companies that have been very hot lately um but Also um other companies in the space particularly um with um Atif Rebecca and Simon here who are all uh founders of of deep tech companies um so let me introduce you to in a little bit more depth to our fantastic panel
today to discuss this um we're going to be joined by Estelle well we are joined already by Estelle gar the vice president of promise promise Ventures promise Ventures um a VC firm that's originally based out of Chicago but which extended To Europe in 2021 um and now deploys out of Luxembourg so so premise ventures invests in early stage deep Tech startups seed and series a stages um we've got Simon Thomas as well the CEO of paragraph um a deep Tech startup that SP out of Cambridge University in 2017 um which creates next gen uh Next
Generation Electronics out of graphine um so the idea is to create products that have better sensitivity better robustness uh better Energy Efficiency Um and that's particularly promising for Industries like Automotive Industrial Automation healthc care Etc um we have Atif SED the founder of weno a UK startup that designs robotic systems that can delicately handle fresh produce um like tomatoes and grapes uh just after the produce is harvested and before it's shipped um so delivering these Services largely in parking houses um and finally representing the AI world I suppose we have Rebecca Gorman the Founder of
aligner AI which is building a system that improves the tools and components that you use when you're building AI uh with the objective of making them more reliable um and high quality to create uh safer AI um a little bit of housekeeping there will be no Standalone Q&A session um at the end of the discussion or throughout discussion but you can submit your questions um throughout using the Q&A function uh these will be upvoted and We'll discuss the most uh popular questions that have been submitted as as we go throughout the discussion now excuse me
to get started with a little bit of data which shows that in 2024 20 3% of all early stage rounds so under $5 million rounds were in Ai and machine learning so that's nearly one in every four VC dollars allocated to this area so I'm interested in picking out picking out what that means for the Deep Tech scene as a whole Um we've obviously got companies that are immediately in the AI um in the AI you know sector with Rebecca we've got companies that are not directly linked to AI but they are using AI as
well um so essentially how has uh this number of um of more funds being allocated to AI translated for deep teex companies as a whole how has access to funding been for deep Tex as a whole in the past year or past um several years what what are the Trends here for for you who are directly involved with um the reality on the ground who would like to get us started um Rebecca why not give us the give us the AI the AI vision of things uh yeah so I would uh I think this is
actually a really interesting time for for deep Tech in AI um over the last couple years the primary interest in AI has been um less of a a a deep Tech focus and more of a low Tech focus in AI so What can you make prompt prompting language models what can you make um scaling up already existing infrastructures um and now there's um I think with the introduction of deep seek even when it's in the field of AI I think there's probably likely to be eventually at least more investor interests and actually deep Tech approaches
to artificial intelligence That have a different approach um but um also I'm not an investor so can't um reliably comment as well as a stealth can on that area Isel did you want to bounce off that yeah um I mean I think we we've obviously seen that has been dominating funding um over the past year especially uh it's taken uh approximately 30% of the global VC funding and massive investments in uh in foundational models AI chips um and vertical applications um But we beyond kind of the premiums in terms of valuation that we've seen in
these companies um we also see that AI is being integrated the in the general deep Tech Fields as well I mean it's um it's key to to some domains um such as humanoids uh and others so there is definitely a stronger interest in AI um but that being said doesn't mean that deep Tech deals are different from AI um and they still attract a lot of investors um especially in deep Tech um We just generally see a lot less kind of generalist funds going to deep Tech investor Investments um on startups rather than AI which
can be a bit more accessible um and and also kind of um driven by um by hot demand uh in the markets and Simon what's your experience of that do you so as obviously you you do um um integrate AI in some ways in some of your work processes uh but you're not kind of an AI native necessarily uh company how have things Been um for you in terms of access to funding has it been easy as it can be seen sometimes for AI companies or is it still a bit of a challenge I should
I start um I mean so I think the the the term deep Tech uh can be lot a lot fuzzy and would include software and only AI it's very different in terms of funding scen here in the UK um and Europe when you talk about deep Tech I mean we utilize machine learning deep learning methods um H without that The robots will be will be develop they not able to know fruits because they are organic they look very different so you need to employ a level of deep learning methods to be able to understand what
are what are these robots been looking at but um fundamentally when VCS or investors look at us they look at us as U the a hardware company and the problem is that in the UK I can't comment all over Europe but at least in the UK uh we don't have enough um VCS who fund after I mean seed maybe yes but after you've gone past you're generating Revenue you know you're now going to a scale of phase you're expanding globally like wsan is we're in eight countries around the world um we are in a bit
of a weird at least in the UK in a very strange uh value of death in terms of ECS because for for the ones who are in the market we are too far ahead and then there isn't much sort of there isn't much funding for people like ourselves 95% of Wano's investors are not British are not European at all they're all from the US uh which is which is very different to what everyone else keeps talking about I mean it's great that we've got um you know 30% of the funding going in AI but but
it's but it's software only you know when when you talk about hard tech deep Tech what we do um just VCS just don't have that mandate they just think we are extremely um extremely risky or or just not enough interest so so I think when You talk about deep Tech you need to understand that you know Hardware as well as software becomes quite challenging at least in the UK we just don't have enough Simon would you compare yeah just follow up on that I completely agree with Atif about his comments there um I probably sit
in a corner that's least invested to be honest paragraph is a deep Tech hard tech materials manufacturing company so they're all of The boxes that kind of there's very few ven diagrams that overlap of investors that have that box as as a Target to invest in and particularly as the T pulls out you know in in the UK and even in Europe putting Capital into Capital intensive businesses is still seen as a very high risk we talk about if we come back to AI we talk about having future AI but we very rarely talk about
the underpinning chips that need to go into it so if we Don't provide the hardware doesn't matter how many language models you make how much AI you provide you're not going to get there in the end so it as Atif points out when we talk about deep Tech we need we need to be thinking about the whole ecosystem the software side the hardware side and how that integrates together in order to create the Technologies we want for the future if I just go back a bit earlier to to your question there's there's an interesting Point
that's happened over the past three years that kind of magnifies the issues we have at the moment the the Deep Tech investment World kind of collapsed about two and a half years ago first in the public markets and then then in the private markets which means that the capital has been difficult to raise across the board so when we talk about having large investment in AI it has a magnifying impact for deep Tech because the pool of capital has shrunk So much that 30% of a much larger pool two and a half years ago would
meant the whole deep tech industry wouldn't have had such a bad time but now because of where we stand in the whole financing landscape it it becomes more magnifying but I don't think we should really focus on AI as being something that takes investment away from other deep Tech I mean we've always had these Trends in the past right if it wasn't AI it was quantum before if it wasn't Quantum it Was blockchain before that or it was fintech or it was you know going back even further VR so we're always going to have these
challenges of technological areas that investors want to put their Capital into because they can see the market opportunity so AI is just the latest in that chain of things that that yes takes a segment a large segment and probably rightfully so because that's where the world needs to develop but again the reason we're talking about This at the moment is because actually it's the whole investment world that's gone through a bit of a downturn which makes that 30% look bigger than what it actually is really compared to standard years on the topic of um attracting
investor interests I guess you know um making investors interested in in The Proposal that you have and trying to attract funding I'll bring in a question from the audience um from Joan filburn who's saying um I've seen a lot of Investors talking about the importance of building Moes recently um I'm also hearing from investors that good Tech is not enough um could you give me some examples of how you did this to the entrepreneurs but I guess the VC perspective here is also important in terms of what constitutes a strong moat in the Deep Tech
space today whether you're in AI or not I mean I'm happy I'm happy here you like I mean the there's there's several There's several aspects to that question actually I think the first one the most prominent one going back to the financing landscape is the offering more than just the technology it's it's certainly with the past two years investors and of course we have a great investor with us so more than happy for a Delta comment on this and don't prove me wrong if I am um but we've seen the need for investors to reduce
their risk and so instead of being early stage V And being able to what I would call bring a Visionary product to Market with very little Revenue evidence even earlier stage investment now requires that Dr risking so you've got to be able to not only generate a product but show a really good Pathway to Market and demonstrate that there's traction that's something that's become a lot more prominent over the past two and a half years I mean it's good because it it shows that those companies have the Strength to carry on and go forward but
it's bad in some ways for companies like paragraph where the first four or five years of your work is actually getting a product to Market getting the MVP and getting the investment to do that can be difficult if you've got to focus on well I need sales I need to get Market traction well actually what you really want as a quality product first because that underpins your whole commercial strategy going Forward in terms of building note sorry I just to finish go ah go um yes you know having the ability to be able to defend
defensively differentiate your product is is very important there's a lot of um particularly if you look at the the AI investment there's a lot of overlapping companies that it's very difficult to have that separation from from the individual uh businesses to make sure that you can protect it Going forward I'm sure there will be a lot of consolidation in the AI world going forward because of that but for for companies like paragraph who are pushing forward what I would call new technologies that that have never been seen before making sure not only defensible but making
sure that moot allows you to have something to deal with large corporates that are incumbents in the future give you that commercial opportunity is very very Important yeah I mean I think just just to add a bit on that um well for us actually the the most important is always the team um and and execution and and in particular in deep Tech I mean what we see is that companies really need a lot of funding a lot of cash um so execution is really key in that sense um and managing cash flow is uh is
kind of a at the at the priority level um the moood is of course important but it comes with the rest um and I guess when When people kind of mention the the importance of the moot it's more a question of being able to raise and being able to survive um in this uh in this world and this particular Market as you said there's not that much funding available or that many investors um that are patient enough and that can understand the technologies that are being developed at the time and also that can understand uh
really the the the difference in in sales cycles and um The P to revenues um as opposed to to other kind of companies that you may see on the market um for for AI because of the because of the I mean the hype that's Sur it uh at the moment we see a lot of companies that raise significant amount of money and um that are able to to reach high level evaluation that uh that are perhaps a bit too much um uh at some point because they are and while they are still pre- revenues because
they're able to bring very strong Expertise from their team uh they have uh a strong ecosystem surrounding them um and they're able to show already some uh some kind of of traction and and integration with their with their regulatory ecosystem um but uh so so I I guess the answer to that is really like the Moe is important but more important than the mode is really um how the team is going to execute and how the team is going to really show its its long-term Vision um And raise the amount of money that they need
to execute that Vision um and and that in the end is going to be uh like to to be really like differentiating um as opposed to other companies that's that's really the way that we we see it um and we cannot stress that enough um but uh but yeah that that would be my my two sents on that do you find that that's sorry carry on yeah sorry no Ju Just just to add uh what Simon said uh you know funding Obviously as we all know it's it's difficult in space uh what wano did uh
the positive thing as part of it was we obviously then decided to prove the market um get a robotic system is know the cheapest out there first in the in in the world U and currently we're the only only robotic system which handles you know produce in a post Tris World commercially um so what because of less funding around we had to go and and create in in little funding you've got The MVP uh and that enabled us to now have a robotic system which is um you know exceptionally lowcost and it helps the farmers
helps industry uh to really adopt these Technologies because the problem problem for us is Farmers and you know these sort of uh post har industry um they always run very low margin especially in the UK and Europe so having a system which really you know having a robotic system which really uh meets with the ROI uh that makes Complete sense to these guys that enable us to get to that stage um so when we did started in we see funding we were Revenue generating we had contracts um which also meant that uh the terms we
able to negotiate with uh with our investors we're a lot more favorable because the risk is you know fairly different as opposed to here we are it's an amazing product you know the first in the market but we have no idea if the market will adopt it if the business Model works or not um and then and then that also forers last year we also got uh three of the leading Banks uh financial institution underwriter robot so essentially they buy it and lease it on our behalf you know all that is great so so then
our companies reliant on VC funding only is not we not just riing on that it's now good to have as opposed to you know what we really need this to succeed um so yeah I mean there's there a silver lining in in all the stresses And and uh negativity there there's a bit of positivity because we're forced to forced to survive you know and survival means you do everything Rebecca did you want to add something or in particular no no not particularly um yeah I wanted to ask so we've mentioned a few things here including
um the L the lack of uh big Pockets I guess to fund deep Tech um the lack of um I think it's if you were mentioning kind Of the the fact that VCS in Europe might be looking for things in deep Tech that aren't realistic to deliver um you've just you've just mentioned you know questioning whether the VC model for these reasons is the right one for some deep teexs my question is is this a European problem is it different in other parts of the world um and if so is one possible solution to navigate
that um to go and seek um this funding elsewhere particularly in light of the Current uh geopolitical context I suppose I I can answer very quickly on this one just just from my own experience um I I I generally think it's a UK problem or european problem where the the VCS just don't have that mandate um because elsewhere when you look at wano uh as a as a business and in the US there's there is that that appetite the problem is a lot of us VCS and investors expect the business to either be based in
the US or have operations in the US which we did uh we have massive operations in California uh which enabled us to access that part of funding I think if you know yes it's it's easy to say yeah you know the the American vs are a lot more um they're lot lot more happy to take these type of risks but the problem is if you're British or european uh startup in this space and you approach an American V us Bas VC I think the chances are it's very less likely that they'll be you You'll be
getting investment unless you have either approved the market you have deris lot of things before or you have a a significant presence in the US um so I I I really think it it needs to be some sort of and I think we're going to touch upon government incentives and and their role later on I hope because I think there has to be some level of um some level of intervention for this type of I mean it's great we celebrate a lot in the UK especially uh with the regards to Fintech investment you know uh
software investment but but I think it's really important important that we start realizing that if if this industry is not supported then you have you have companies you have less and less deep tech companies robotics businesses you know succeeding in the UK um if not they'll be moving out of the country other the region which I think is bad overall for all sorts of reasons so um you don't you don't you don't want to You know have that talent and have those Industries just to move out because there's absolutely no support or little to no
support yeah maybe I can also add add on to that um I think there's definitely a difference uh in Europe versus rest of the world and especially versus the US and and now even more than than ever um that's that's structural and in part and that's that's been the way it is like for a number of years I think in Europe We're a bit later we came in a bit later than the US the US has kind of a ground that is uh that is already um based for uh for VCS to to flourish and
for companies to uh uh to develop everything is is well put together and and people like already know how to work together I think in Europe we are a lot more Rovers we're starting to be um to be a bit more engaged uh in in funding Z Tech companies but there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of um Consolidating government funding plus uh private funding um there's uh a lot of uh of contracts and grants that are being procured for companies uh in Europe but we still need kind of a more
aggressive way uh to deploy those uh those govern those contracts um in the US you have also strong base of of investors um Specialized or even non-specialized that can go um that have Deep Pockets um and that can follow on the rounds uh even at the later stages In Europe we have less of that we're we're able to show that some companies can raise very significant amount of money um one of our portfolio company the exploration company which is space company has been able to to raise um kind of the the biggest series B uh
in Europe um so far with only European investment investors so you can already see that there's um there is a an improvement towards that uh but still there's a lot of um there's a lot of Elements that needs to be U that needs to be changed um also I think uh geopolitical context is going to impact um Europe a lot in the coming years I think it's U it's it's easy to see um there there were already some regulations like cus that could make it harder for for European Zex to to access us funding as
well um so we need overall kind of a more strong and aggressive European deep Tech funding model um but it's hard it takes time um and also uh We do not act as one country in Europe we are several countries we have several regulations um and there are several hubs also of uh of um of of Specialties um so it's it's it's more complex um but it's uh but it's on a good track I think I mean from my perspective just just adding to that I completely agree what te and Estella just said um there
is there there's an underlying thing as well most of the Investment is based on risk appetite and that that is largely culturally based the US has a a very different risk profile to for example the UK European countries where cultures are very different I mean that's changing over time as people get confidence in investing in higher and higher risk prospects but that's going to take time um paragraph for example has got to raise a significant amount of capital in order to be successful the likelihood is That will have to be done mainly outside the UK
because we're not in that time frame of the risk appetite being picked up in the UK um so we we've got to look at Global markets and we've got to look at you know there are other aspects that come into it geopolitical GE geoeconomic changes we can't have any impact on we just have to manage them but there are markets around the world where it's better for you to be located so it's not Just about the capital it's about where can you make the best return where can you make the largest profits and so there
there's other considerations just than bringing the capital in as to where you might want to locate your business and where you might want to take the capital from Rebecca could you tell us a bit bit more about your funding strategy and how it kind of compares to the experiences of Atif and Simon and and whether you've Been uh facing similar challenges or if you navigated that any differently um I I have noticed that um a lot of European and UK VCS take a different approach um than us VCS they're looking um for um a lower
return but less risk and I think that this problem that we've been discussing about um us being better for for scaling in larger rounds is often blamed on European and UK VCS because of this um but I wonder if if some of the problem Is actually um in the hands of of Founders in the UK and Europe because we're more used to building that um lowrisk High multiple or low lowrisk lower multiple return story and less familiar with developing the expansive story and that expansive strategy and vision for a startup um and I wonder whether
um if if European and UK Founders um adopt a more expansive strategy and and Narrative um if they they may actually uh occasionally at least get European and UK Venture capitalists to surprise themselves um with what they may be interested in investing in yeah so definitely two sided problem like there's the cultural and then there's the simply size of the tickets that can be given out in Europe um bringing in a question from the audience um from Ros Korea um which was which aligned with a question I wanted to ask As well when we're looking
at the efforts that are made certainly in Europe around trying to plug this Gap um um the the the question here mentions uh the European commission EIC accelerator aiming to fill uh that investment Gap there's different things there's the European Tech Champions initiative that tries to build a more uh bigger um uh growth stage uh VCS we've got you know efforts to try and unlock money from Pension funds and insurers um do you I Guess my question is do you have faith in these Solutions do you think it's going to work are we going to
get B bigger pools of capital in Europe um in the foreseeable future at least in a realistic future for you who are entrepreneurs in deep Tech today I I I okay um I mean all all of those things are great um and and just I'll I'll I'll tell my huge gratitude to innovate UK uh the the the uh funding agency in the UK they've done an Exceptional job um in in helping gsana to where it is uh with no VC money or very less VC money you know we we were matching our our grounds at
at the early stage of development building the robots uh it's thanks to them uh we actually have a robotic system which is now global uh so so I've got faith in those uh those institutions um however the the reality of are we going to see this change and are we going is that an answer in the short term or even In the foreseeable future in the next three years I don't think that's an I don't think that's the case uh the reality is that you know and I choose three years because a lot changes in
three years uh companies like ourselves you know we can't wait for three years or even more uh for the culture to change uh Salon made a very good point and I've actually was just scrolling to some questions people have asked and one of them asked about what can we do to Change that mindset here in the UK uh and Europe and and its culture and the problem is culture is very hard to change you know it's one of the most difficult things you can change everything but culture is something you can't change that easily so
if if you've got a culture of being risk ofs if you've got a culture of you know pretty much you know being quite shut down to the these type of risks um then then it's it's going to be difficult I don't Know the answer but it's not going to be a short-term fix that I'm sure of oh one more thing I can add sorry one more one other thing I can add is VCS are one thing but what has has really happening and for wano as well what really helped um and we've got an increased
number of increasing uh demand coming in from family offices so we have um so for example just recently uh we're looking to get a couple of European family offices we have a lot of family Officers from Asia and and the US who invested in wano and they seem to be lot more open to to these type of Industries uh whether like the US One they've got a connection with you know them having their own farm and they realized that this issue is you know going to solve problems for themselves and they decided to to uh
to part part way and become partners with us and invest so family offices could be um uh probably a shorter term fix for a lot of deep tech Companies uh assuming you know you can get get hold of the guys but but that they seem to be faster and they seem to be more taking this over at least WS it is my experience uh compared to VC's yeah and I'm glad you mentioned Asia because I think there's a strong focus on the US obviously as an alternative or um you know a way to secure more
Capital turning to the US but increasingly would you say that other parts of the world are emerging as um alternative sources Of capital so is that is that for me um yeah for you if it's your experience or I think yeah go for it yeah yeah the answer is yes yes I mean like I said I own own experiences we've got uh funding you know we got uh investors family offices uh VCS uh based in the US Asia um and and just very recently we're getting a couple of family offices in in Europe who are
um coming as part of our our next round next round of investment So uh family offices have really led a lot of the things in the recent days for us uh in the recent months for us so um I I see that as another Avenue for other deep Tech compan is looking into this this sector you know maybe approach these guys um they may be more willing to take on uh take on the risk than uh than VC's I think I can support what Atif saying there as well I think we talk a lot about
VCS for earlier stage Companies or even you know we talk in series series A B C D and actually what I'm seeing currently is the change in appetite for some of the other types of funds so definitely family offices we talk to a lot more now they tend to be based on a um a targeted area of whether it's sustainability or whether it's e ecologically uh focused there tend to be an aim to a family office but there's other funds like Sovereign wealth funds even private Equity because because VCS Are starting to push towards we
must be able to see revenues we must be able to see uh your commercial traction all of a sudden PE fund funds are starting to go a little bit overlapping with the VC funds so I think there's more options open today to Startup and scale up companies than there were three or four years ago in terms of the type of fund you can engage with and certainly globally there is more interest coming from for example Asia what and it used We used to talk about Asia as being Chinese funds or Singaporean funds but actually no
there's Malaysian funds now there's you know there's Taiwanese funds there's there's even V funds that are starting to to look at technology in in the UK and Europe there is the US of course but of course the big one that's been that's been pushing forward over recent years is the Middle East as well there's lots lots of money coming in from the Middle East too so if you think About the the investment landscape you've got open to you we should think Beyond just the VC as as as a as a vehicle where we can raise
Capital even at the slightly earlier stages of the company uh and one more thing is Corporate investors um which is also coming quite very you mentioned about Thailand one of our customers uh who um massive chicken uh exporters apparently third largest in the world um they are interested again in in in busano and and These sort of things so corporates if it matches with their uh industry and your product matches with them then that's also another another route uh for taking investment great um so we've talked a lot about funding and I'm sure we've not
um we're not going to stop talking about funding it will it will find its way into the conversation still um but moving on a little bit I wanted to bounce off something I think TF you already mentioned around um I guess what Comes after funding so scaling the company commercializing enabling adoption of these Technologies um by customers um one of the questions that came up in the audience was around execution um and uh what what this person is saying is that we've seen there's been some hesitation from customers to integrate and adopt new technologies uh
like robotss automation um even AI I'd say um we'll see if that's relevant to to your Experience Rebecca um how have you been addressing this issue or how have you seen startups address these issues I guess that would be targeted to still as well yeah I mean for us uh you're absolutely right any new technology there's a lot of hesitation um robotic systems in post ders industry we what we're doing is we're doing what the robots are doing what human beings used to do uh so if you have a line of 200 people on production
line you're putting Robots so 200 people will be replaced by about 110 120 robots uh doing exactly the same kind of job the problem in people's mind is okay uh if if the robots break down if they don't do work at least I had you know at least I have human beings who could have done it and I could have asked them to do something but now I've got these robots and stuff there's a big there's a big hesitation um initially um when we started off we um in integrated these systems in such a Way
um that um originally it was sort of your very big clients people who have a thousand plus people working and they got budgets to take on the risk but uh we realized that the biggest hindrance for us was drisking this technology to the customer so what we did in wano is we pretty much got the robots um at the same price of a human worker in the country where we install it so in instead of hiring a person you're hiring a robot and you're paying slightly less Cost than what it would be costing you so
the price of the robot per month uh changes you know various based on where it is so the UK is different to the us too we also sell in Malaysia so the price difference is very different and we try to make it very accessible for the industry so that um so that the customers even if worst worst case happens you know you they're not massively out of pocket by investing millions of dollars or pounds and buying These robots um obviously we provide the support and tookes it it takes time I mean you know the first
robot we installed was in 2021 end of 2021 um it was not until 2023 24 when we sort of started started seeing a lot of Word of Mouth going out oh these robots work you know here it is we got case studies and we able to Showcase and customers in the industry where we are in they're very tightly you know closed new industry so people talk um you convince one then you Pretty much you know you're in the country and then everyone wants to get it so experience of Course May defer you know I'm sure
Simon will tell from his uh uh from his sensing U graphine sensing another aspect but I'm talking primarily for robotic systems uh we also had other issues um such as obviously the people who are on the line in the early stages we had uh a lot of the a lot of the people were working there because the robots haven't replaced Everyone so you have half of the of the pack house with robots the other half you still have human being doing the exact same job and and we had people who came and sabotage the robots
quite a bit in the early days uh they used to push it move the move the camera move the stuff so then we installed a CCTV camera to see what was happening there all sorts of very interesting experiences we've had uh but that has obviously died away because when we started explaining What these robots actually doing and how um these jobs are not lost but actually converted from a low paid um and unskilled job to actually a more paid and and skilled job we've retrained quite a few of the people who were on the production
line to become robotic technicians installation guys and stuff so so the they're positive eventually people got it but but they are challenges it's not it's not easy they're challenges in the early stes They're definitely challenges to get the edication perhaps to make towards customers Rebecca you're obviously in a field that's um I I don't know the answer actually whether Enterprises are educated to the importance of um implementing the tools and technologies that you bring to them did you find similarly that you had there was a bit of a education process in terms of making sure
that enterprises adopt these Technologies um yeah we find that There's a lot of Education process in using our Technologies because we take a different um we we take a different approach to um how to build artificial intelligence another approach is needed in order to get systems that are are reliable in unexpected situations and do what's intended instead of something else um so that's always ongoing process with us are you seeing that there's a question that just came in from the audience around um are you seeing any Trends with respect to investing in deep Tech and
impact um so focusing not only on financial return but also positive impact which I guess we could say applies to applied AI is there more interest uh so it's an interesting time actually for um artificial intelligence that's responsible because um the United States has been um seeing that recently as a a as a Counter as as an attack against um effective AI um what we actually find in our research and development is that artificial intelligence that does more of what you want it to do and less of what you don't want it to do is
both more responsible and more effective and more powerful um but uh that's a narrative that's been um played down by by players that wanted um their unreliable systems To gain Market traction um so I I hope we'll see that narrative shift and we we hope that we'll be a part of playing of of changing that narrative showing that um you really need artificial intelligence that's consistent with High Fidelity to your true goals um if you want to achieve um consistent commercial impact uh increased profits and and compete um with Asia and artificial Intelligence um Estelle
I'd be interested to know what you're seeing across your portfolio companies when it comes to this um you know Enterprise adoption what are the trends there would you align with what was saying um is is is it again a European problem are things different in the US what like how do you advise that companies navigate that that adoption issue to scale yeah I mean I think um I think I fully I mean I agree with uh with what has been said Previously um but I add a couple of points um so first I think one
key element is really the importance of a um so the return on investment for the for the customers and um companies especially in deep Tech uh and we've done also a lot of of Robotics Investments um they need to show a critical path towards uh an Roi um and have shortterm results for uh for potential pilot programs or early stage customers um that can enable them to uh To efficiently cut costs or improve kind of the the efficiency so that's one uh second what we've seen with some of our portfolio companies and um I had
mentioned our recent investment so Capa robotics which is a Danish robotics company they they're for instance doing a very userfriendly solution that can easily integrate um with uh Logistics and maintenance um and the integration part here is key because you need to have a solution that is not only um uh New and and has an integrate kind of disruptive Technologies but you want something that is going to be able to integrate with your current environment and with your current Solutions uh so having that is is super important and we've seen it with some of our
companies that it's been very uh it's been very useful it reduces also adoption risks uh the other thing is um a lot of our comp companies do strategic Partnerships um so they can work with Distributors and Integrators um and they are about to build trust and and they can provide also localized support uh based on the different geographies that companies are targeting uh so it helps kind of really understand the different uh the different hubs because each country has its own specificities regulations uh and needs in terms of both both kind of payload capacities but
also like integration and models um and then um so another of our portfolio company rco They they focus really on on customized robotic arms uh for manufacturing needs um and they've been able to develop something that's very modular and and flexible in terms of systems um and they can be cost effective uh in that makes it accessible for dmes so in both of those case you can easily integrate it's simple systems you don't need to look uh too hard but you have something that is um that is simple nice uh that um has uh new
needs addressed uh and that can grow And provide AI to the customer very quickly um and and that's been that's been a huge uh a huge uh impact that has a huge impact on the on the customers um then uh just uh just one point on the uh on the impact of uh of investing in in sustainability and and Innovation I mean I think we've seen obviously a lot of interest from C from VCS to invest in those areas um however I think it's a it's a bit different I mean in uh in deep Tech
the the case is a bit Different um but most of the Technologies can have a very good uh impact on U on ESG matters for instance however it may take a bit longer to show it and to show it concretely uh but there's still there's still yes a strong interest in that um thanks instead I'll go around the room because I'm interested in hearing what Simon has to say about how um um Enterprises have received graffin made electronics and if that's how have you Navigated you know um enabling uh what yeah what tips do you
have for companies that need to sell you know deep Technologies to to new customers and how to convince them I think it's kind of we have to we have to kind of just take a step back and go what do you mean by Deep Tech because there there's deep Tech and there's deep Tech and there's deeper Tech right and and they all require they all require different things to get to Get Market traction to attract customers to attract Partners to attract collaborators and I think um you know Estelle's just given a great example of how
you can do that with robotics companies but and in those cases there are already application spaces that you can see you know you can see that you're putting robots into whether it's industrial lines or if you go deeper than that where you've got deep Tech that is actually your creating Technology that requires somebody to utilize the performance parameters of what you're providing that they've never seen before it's it's a much more difficult task so for example taking paragraph's experience of creating new types of chips that have got performance characteristics that have never been seen you've
got to bring your Market along with you it's not as simple as going to for example another chip company or another company that Uses chips and going we're going to replace your incumbent because if you do that you're just going a race to the bottom kind of sales price what you need to do is what I would call a value sell so for example our chips use a thousand times less power for certain applications you go to a customer and you say that they go wow that's fantastic but how do I use that so you
almost have this education piece that you've got to go through to help the Customer find the use case when they found that then it becomes a very very lucrative uh channel for both of you so in terms of getting deep Tech what I'd call this really really deep Tech out there you need to find companies that have got an evangelist approach to themselves they're looking for emerging Tech they're looking to develop the next step so you're looking for partners that like you are looking to take something to the next level and That's a really difficult
thing to do just unearthing the right types of Partnerships the right types of customers that can move forward with you on a technical level level and a commercial level um is really really important um you know this whole question revolves around Europe how does that work in Europe right it doesn't in my experience so I'm not talking for everybody here but in my experience in the chip World there are very few what I Would call inspirational uh Tech development companies in Europe that will adopt something quickly and go okay let's push this forward if you're
looking for that type of company you have to go to Asia you have to go to South Korea you have to go to Taiwan us and some parts of the US I think it's getting a bit better we are starting to see it a bit more in Europe now but it's you know for us it's really about finding those people that Understand what they will get themselves as a customer by utilizing our technology so I I my advice to to anybody is find find your Tech evangelists find you know go on the forums go on
the you know the places where you find dare I say it the Geeks that work in the company that can get turn around to their teams and go Wow have you seen this thing that's coming out we should try and use this it's it's a kind of it's an educational approach As well as a commercial approach that you have to adopt boiling down again Tois verion I guess yeah can I just add something to to Simon very quickly so um you're right um just just on that part I think customers in the UK not just
VCS but also customers in UK are of extremely uh risk of so when we start obviously British company our biggest sales were outside the UK we we we signed a $47 million contract in the US and and 30 million pounds contract in Malaysia and other areas we start integrating it we had some customers in the UK but thanks to our International expansion everyone else using it of the same customer that oh oh you got these robots there okay that that seems now very interesting you know can we can we also start using this um because
no one wants to be the first one at least in the UK so exactly what Simon said you need to find you need to find someone who wants to be the First one to take on a brand new technology it's it's difficult not easy defin and there's no easy answer to that as well um yeah no sorry just to rebound on what you just said I think um nice answer and I just add that um sometimes in um in in certain industry if you you manage to get the right first customer um then you can
create the the F mode that you want in the rest of the customers within this Industry um kind of showing okay this one they've they've adopted our technology they're they're first mover and trying to innovate using our technology to to improve their their Ai and and efficiency now like um if you don't want to miss the wave um just just follow it um I'll move on the conversation in a tiny bit because we've not got much time left but I think it would be hard to talk about challenges facing deep Tex Without talking about Talent
um is definitely the well it's definitely not enough to have five minutes to talk about the um the big gaps in talent that deep sex are facing today but let's try and uh you know get as much as we can from these five uh five last minutes um I suppose that is is that your experience is are we missing talent in Europe today are we do we not have enough of it is it not qualified enough what is the essense of the challenge for Deep techs today that need qualified talent I think we have to
be again like I said about deep Tech we have to be careful what we mean by Talent as well um because Talent changes with stage of business so for example getting being in Cambridge we can at the early stage of the business getting scientists getting people that are really kind of enthusiastic about developing that science is not difficult we're an Innovative country we have lots and lots Of of tent in in that area but as you grow and you need more practical SK skills more vocational skills more engineering skills then definitely we are we can't
compete if I take my experience in the semiconductor world we can't compete with other regions of the world in terms of in terms of the quality of the people we can get and and the volume of people that we can get so it really there is definitely and I this is seen throughout throughout industry And throughout companies like ours there needs to be more talent and there's reasons and there's ways you can develop that I am just unashamedly going to say there is a great way to develop Talent by one of the leading acmis in
the UK the Royal Academy of engineering they run a wonderful program called the shot scaleup accelerator so if you'd like to look that up on the Royal Academy of engineerings website I I would advise you to do so it's a leadership program That actually pays for your leadership development Rebecca did you want to jump in on tent I know that was an issue that you that was close to your heart oh I just I wanted to say there's uh currently actually a a brain drain on the UK um for a lot of top talent because
they'll get paid better in the United States and there's um more Recruitment and more jobs um and I think that's an awful shame I think that um we should keep more of the talent that we Develop um here in the UK and and put it into uh bring it into amazing um business businesses like those present and I hope we'll see a lot more entrepreneurship in the UK really taking advantage of the Brilliant Minds here I guess one one question around that is how do you not how do you navigate The Challenge so obviously there's
you mentioned Simon there some of the solutions is simply um you know probably from a government perspective Or policymaking perspective just making sure we get more of more Talent trained but right now in the immedia as a company that needs Talent right now how do you manage that do you hire from abroad do you rate like how do you how do you man navigate that challenge okay I'm going to direct this question I'm going to direct this comment directly at the UK government so the only way we can get Talent right now is to import
it and if we want to have you know There's a great comment just made there by Rebecca about attracting talent to the UK to do that you have to have border policies that allow that to happen in particular visas that allow that to happen so right now if we wanted to accelerate growing the talent base in the UK the easiest way to do it is we must support with schools we must support with education going through from children but if you want to learn Quickly bring in exemplars that people can learn from allow those people
that are ex excellent in their field expert in their field to come in and be the center point of learning for whether it's companies or whether it's research institutes if we really want to grow that Talent base very rapidly I think I think for us um yeah I'm going to say we fa the exact same problem um but uh in the short term we do get people in the UK it's extremely Expensive for people to income the Visa costs have shot up and not only that from April onwards now the sponsorship fees have shot up
so it's it's it's basically a massive burden for companies to even though we are registered to to sponsor uh people it's just too expensive to do that um so we have been looking into hiring team abroad um which is massive shame you know it's a massive shame that we not we're unable to do that in the UK um you know right now We've got projects running massively stressed teams uh and and it's it's difficult and unless obviously government policies change and we make UK an attractive place for people to actually come in and work we
will have we will have to hire abroad and which we are doing uh right now as we speak um so and it's it's horrible but you know that's a reality business needs to go on um it's Del in in in the 30 seconds or so that we've got left at the European Level is that also what you're observing across companies yeah I mean well I would not necessarily qualify that as a as a lack of talent availability I think there's a lot of talents uh especially in Ai and and deep Tech and Engineering in uh
in Europe um so at the European level I would say there's a there's a pretty good talent pool um available and it's it's continuing to grow the problem is that Um we're unable to necessarily reten like um enable like retention of of those talents um in house uh and uh in in Europe because we are not able to offer as competitive compensation and Equity Stakes as uh other places such as the US um and we're on while the US come here and shop around for cheap um engineering talents um that they can uh that they
can incentivize well uh so what we would need actually is more programs that would uh that would Develop kind of a uh better relationship between universities and uh and companies um and also um expand more on the the competitive like Equity options and and flexible work Arrangements um and opportunities in Europe um and uh and yeah also I mean as the other ones kind of go go where the talents are and and maybe import or export talents as uh as needed um because especially in deep Tech sometimes you just need one Talent from A very
very specialized field um and this is uh this is going to be a bit more uh hard to uh to find uh in the particular Hub that you're that you're in great well with this um I to run wrap up because we've run out of time unfortunately but thank you to everyone who's joined the talk today and thank you of course to the panelists for their great insights on these topics um thank you to our partner as well the Royal Academy of engineering Enterprise hub For their support um sorry if we couldn't take your question
um but we can see you next time for the next sifted talks you can go to C.T talks for more or follow the link that we're dropping in the chat box now um thanks again everyone and speak soon have a lovely day
