Joe Rogan Experience #670 - Michael A. Wood, Jr.

And we're live what's up dude how are you good Joe how are you U very good good to see you um for folks who don't know the story uh Michael as he prefers to be disc talked to as directed as uh referred to as you uh you were cop in Baltimore and you you put a string of tweets that uh I read uh that was on Huffington Post and uh that's when I got interested in this whole story um CU It's very rare that someone who's a cop comes out and tells about all the [

__ ] that they experience um I have friends that are cops um and I know there's a lot of good cops out there just like there's good everything you know there's you know uh Sam Harris and um Dan Carlin just did a podcast recently together it's a really excellent podcast and one of the things they were talking about they were talking about people in power people that were are politicians that They there's a the whole Spectrum you get great people people that are genuinely trying to do good and you also get Psychopaths um it seems

like you ran into a lot of [ __ ] Psychopaths how long were you a cop for I was a cop for 11 years but you look like you're 20 thanks how's that possible I don't know good genetics good genetics and I guess you did the stress didn't [ __ ] with you uh it didn't really Be honest um how did it not uh my idea an of a what an officer should be was to be more RoboCop is like where I took my emotions out of the job and handled it strictly as enforcing the

law so if I was spit on I I realized they weren't spitting at me they were spitting at the uniform it was just irrelevant I understood it wasn't personal so I separated that as like a uh a role maybe like I was acting that's a great attitude to have I guess um was is that Something that you thought about before you became a cop or is it something you cultivated while you were a cop I can't say for sure but it seems like I actually think that was the wrong way to think but if if

you analyze it and you're at that time you think well how am I not going to be biased I'm not going to be biased by by separating myself from the situation and kind of acting as autonomous right but I think that that also made me blind because if I was being blind to racism then I was being blind to when we were doing it you know even if I wasn't doing it I wasn't seeing it when it occurred either because I was literally blinding myself to it so you're saying that if you were blind to

racism against you then you were also blind to cops that were committing racism no so if I looked at it as whether my whether I was talking to somebody of Latino Descent of black whatever male female I looked at them Just as equally regardless so if you do that then you don't see that you're disproportionately enforcing things against somebody because I'm literally not trying to see that H so that's interesting so by by trying to treat everyone as equal you weren't taking account of how many black people you were dealing with how many Latinos you

were dealing with how many people of color how many minorities is that fair assessment it is fair to the extent that I'll admit that I when I was in a in the eastern district I would intentionally lock white people up so that I could make sure my my numbers weren't like like my squad it wasn't like oh my gosh look they look up 95% African-Americans I didn't want to see that I wanted to see some kind of balance so I was like aware that hey we're locking too many black people up but I I don't

think I I it just didn't compute at the time it takes time for it To settle in so what about those poor white people that you locked up on purpose I I got nothing were they guilty at least yeah yeah of course I never locked up anybody wasn't guilty well that's but you you experienced a lot of [ __ ] I mean some of the things that I read um that okay here's one punting a handcuffed face down suspect in the face after a foot chase um pissing and [ __ ] inside suspect's homes during

raids on their Beds and clothes jacking up and illegally searching thousands of people with no legal justification this is crazy man this is crazy stuff well when when you're you're doing it it's just what police do you know it you've seen it on TV you've seen it driving by you've seen a corner full of black guys with the cops searching them you've seen it and when they're going into those Pockets you can't go into those Pockets you simply can't but We do you're not allowed to right you have no way of doing it unless you're

you're getting a Frisk where you have you can justify plain field doctoring and then you can get into the pocket but that's extremely rare I mean that that's a specific set of circumstances under a Terry stop and that's nothing that you see Terry stop so Terry versus Ohio was a case law that established I could be slightly off in the particulars but if somebody was displaying the Characteristics of an armed person and you had suspicion or hunch that criminal activity was a foot you could stop that person and conduct a Frisk of the outer garments

so outer garments right so just a pat down essentially so does that outer garments mean a jacket right a jacket so if you had if if like you thought there they had a weapon on their hip you could pull back the jacket and kind of Pat it down but it it seems as the law is written it would have to You'd have to even like squish it and it's just what you can touch from the outside so if you patted the outside of the jacket and felt a gun that was in his waist then you

could you could arrest him or take that gun right you're perfectly fine but you can't dig in his pockets and look for crack right well you can if you have what that's plain field Doctrine so if through my expertise I can tell that that is packaging that is consistent with Narcotics that are distributed in the area and I I can justify that then I can go and retrieve those narcotics it's it's that that's an extremely I mean if you can just think about that how do I really know that that bag in your pocket is

marijuana not oregano that it's it's I I don't not sure if that should be legally Justified or not so that sto and frisk [ __ ] that they were doing in New York they're not doing that anymore right isn't that the deal we we talked About that on a podcast once we we went over all the times that it was just innocent people and it's [ __ ] staggering it's disgusting that stop they would just be able to pull White I mean black kids I said white kids not really though right it was mostly black

kids they would just be able to pull them over and go hey let me let me check you and they would just check their bodies and most of the time they were innocent most of the time there was Nothing to check for I'm going to tell you that 99.9999% of them have nothing on them because they're not even usually documented so in Baltimore we'll do stop and frisk and if you do a stop and frisk you have to conduct an entire specific report called a stop and fris Report that justifies everything you did and and

so it's a big pain so no one's going to write that so they just do it and they move on so your stats are any stat You see is junk so and the stats that you see that are junk sit there and say one in a thousand actually have something on them so think about what reality is Jesus um what what led to you leaving the police force and like was was this a buildup was this something that you thought about for a long time are you ready laugh yeah yes okay we had a an

shooting range in the basement of the eastern district we had to move something uh we had to put one desk on Top of another desk it slipped and I tore my shoulder out there's your exciting story for why I left that's it that's it what what was the injury uh had my shoulder reconstructed just tore tore I it tore everything out and they put it back together like what what speci it just it came out and so the clav not rotator cuff so the the uh Cartage that folds over just doesn't hold it in the

place anymore mhm so it can come out easily so if it can come Out easily they don't let you be a cop anymore and and they process it can come out easily right now yeah so it's permanent forever permanent it's [ __ ] up right from moving a desk yes all the crime I don't know to tell you it's not ex same story I've got nothing I have nothing um so you left and then you decide how long ago was this I got injured in like late 2009 but it took time to do the surgeries

try and come back I mean I tried to come back I came Back and I was uh going coded to a call at lights and Sirens went to turn down a street and the shoulder popped out so I went up onto the sidewalk they said I had to grabb it with the other hand and that's when I I had to go back in and then they said I need another surgery not doing another surgery so from a [ __ ] turn mhm wow [ __ ] you need to go to Cain Velasquez's surgeon fixed that

dude up pretty good I guess um so you decided Once you were out when once you knew you were out you you done the surgery you you you couldn't be a police officer anymore cuz your shoulder blows out what made you decide to go public with all this stuff well I've actually talked about this for a long time um when I have we had a lot of local media and local Street reporters and stuff like that that I was friends with on Twitter and we would talk about these things for the last couple years we

would just go Back and forth talking about things and I had no idea that anybody would pick up on this I thought I was just going to be talking to the same reporters and the same local group of people that I've been talking to the whole time so I came back and saw that somebody started paying attention and what was that like for you shocking yeah we were talking about it before the show started this new found notoriety how weird it is like describe it uh when we land in La guy Asked if I was

on TV talking about police and it's like I I don't know I'm used to being anonymous so I'm used to just going and minding my own business and not bothering anybody and then suddenly people know who you are it's it's it's it's awkward and especially for what they know you are because every time now a cop looks at me I'm like come on you know it's it's going to I'm the bad guy now uhhuh so I can't trust them as well it makes it kind of uh I'm kind Of stuck in in a weird place

so when this most recent Baltimore uh incident took place the Freddy gray incident the eruption of public attention on police brutality in Baltimore and the marches and all the news stories then people started really paying attention to you is that fair to yeah I mean it seems like that was the case I maybe somebody had followed me before and somebody with a powerful retweet I I have no idea and so what was the explain how it all went Down like how did you become this public figure I mean I literally have no comprehension of what

happened I decided that I was just going to talk about some of the things we do so that it's like look this is what we do let's not try to pretend that we don't do it do it so it's not about whether we're going to blame the cops that did it or whether we're going to go back and have retribution we need to realize that this is what we do stop denying it the black Community has been lying for the last 50 years we need to fix it and in a realistic scientific way where we

have some empathy and treat people like human beings because we don't what is Baltimore like to someone my buddy um my buddy John R lives in Baltimore shout out to John R um he lives to the podcast all the time and the way he describes it is I mean I've been there a few times for the UFC but uh I haven't you know gone into the bad Neighborhoods I didn't was the wire so but watching this this whole incident and seeing these people talk about how many times they've been arrested and how many times they've

been [ __ ] over by cops and how crazy it is there and how much crime there is there and how much violence there is there and what it's like trying to grow up there and become a normal person and what a [ __ ] up pill struggle that is describe Baltimore to somebody like me okay so Baltimore Like anywhere else is largely good but it has a microcosm of it it's like the prototype for the prison cycle so somebody comes up in a neighborhood and they just have no hope and they keep feeding that

school to prison cycle over and over and over again and it has a deep history in Baltimore so it invades everything so whether you're talking about our the things the police do or whether you're talking about where they live in Baltimore the you have clusters So you have a a black neighborhood here black neighborhood here black neighborhood here white money white money white money low-income white and it's in these clusters but these clusters were intentionally formed by the law in Baltimore I I can't even say how long ago maybe 100 years ago and you still

have Deeds now that say you can't sell the the house to an African-American person so like even if you were a doctor there you couldn't if You were a black doctor you couldn't buy a house in a nice white neighborhood 60 years ago so you had to still go buy a house in that little area and that if you're if you're clustering everybody like that it just pulls everybody down constantly constantly constantly it's like it's they just constantly beat down there's just no way out so 60 years ago 60 years ago you couldn't buy a

house if you were a black guy in certain neighborhoods and was it law they had This on the book it was in the Deeds still some of the Deeds still have it still what no Court's going to uphold it but you'll still see it you'll see it in there you'll see the language so if there's a white neighborhood today there's there's a possibility that some black person who wants to move into this white neighborhood might encounter some resistance because of this I don't know if they're going to encounter resistance But they're going to see it

in the deed that's going to make you feel awkward [ __ ] why is it still in there because it's the original D they keep carrying it over yeah why wouldn't they change that I don't know I don't know I got I mean I have no idea why this city is that way why these people did these things it doesn't make sense nobody stood objectively and we created these racist institutions I mean they are institutional racism there's no doubt About it and it's up and down in these Urban environments in these cities Cleveland Ferguson Baltimore

Atlanta it's irrelevant they're all the same all these Urban environment there's all over Compton Watts Englewood there's a ton of places like that in La as well it's all over the world I mean all over the United States I should say there's neighborhoods like that that seem almost inescapable did you listen to Mau on Radio Lab Yes I did okay I mean you know how long back that goes me I mean this is so we're denying that we have this so so what people are saying these cops aren't racist I'm not saying they are racist

what I'm telling you is they're participating in institutionalized racism just like everybody in Britain was doing back in Kenya with the ma mouss however long ago that was that was a long time ago and you're you're seeing it come out how it's just the whole Thing if you're participating in it you're guilty and that's what I'm telling you I'm guilty I participated in it it is there a way to fix it well the the easy thing from the police thing is I I think empathy is number one we have to start treating human beings like

they're human beings we have to like we just arrest them and you throw them in a cage just like they did with Freddy gray and you don't focus on them being somebody's child or or or or your I mean race is a social construct this is my brother and I'm doing this to him eventually just doesn't it's inconceivable um we've had this conversation a hundred times in this podcast where um I have always wondered why is it that we put so much emphasis in trying to repair damage that we've done in other countries so much

emphasis in nation building so much emphasis in invading places because of whatever perceived threat or whatever Natural resource we want to dominate and monopolize but no emphasis whatsoever in fixing our own inner cities no emphasis whatsoever in fixing the ghettos and just constructing social centers giving people places that are safe to go to and somehow or another educating people and and and and lifting them out one by one out of the [ __ ] constant cycle that they're in this NeverEnding cycle of poverty and crime and being surrounded by it man you everyone knows that

people Imitate their atmosphere it's just a part of being a human being that's why why accents exist that's why people in some parts of the world do weird things because everyone around them does it like you know weird clothes that they wear or weird rituals scarring of their face you know what have you we imitate what's around us and when you're around a lot of [ __ ] crime and you grow up around a lot of [ __ ] crime and a lot of People with records criminal records and it becomes normal and I don't

know how to fix that and I don't I don't see any effort whatsoever and really engineering some sort of a solution to what these poor unfortunate people are born into well for police it's even worse because we're perpetuating that situation so we're we're the ones doing that cycle so when we see a 16 one time I was a shift commander in the eastern district and I'm telling my guys stop pulling over Old white ladies stop pulling over that young cute girl stop we focus on who commits the crimes and who commits the crimes in Baltimore

16 to 24y old black males that's who's committing the crimes so focus on them that makes sense until you complete the cycle and realize that you started doing that because of institutionalized racism in your organization and so when you are jacking up those guys on the corner and you do find that dime bag so you sent him to Jail now he can't go to work the next day so he loses his job and then he can't make it to court so he gets his license suspended and then he's driving and then you are focusing on

those to 24 year black male so now you're more likely to pull them over now you pull him over now he has a suspended license now he gets his license revoked and now he can't get to the job legally and you just and now now he's dealt left with selling drugs on the corner so you we're We're creating it we have to step back and realize what the facts are on what we're doing and the number one problem is the drug war and then we have money and politics those are two big issues that we

have to solve before we get anywhere well what is the money in politics how does that play in so I don't think we can change anything until we stop having politicians that are serving their donors versus serving the people so somebody that's talking Like me is never going to run a police agency as long as all their corporate donors are saying no no no you keep those animals in the cages because that's what they do I mean that's like a joke in Baltimore that police are actually the zookeepers you keep everything in and don't let

it hit the county so so that's that's our role that's what we're doing so your Mayors and your PO Ians are going to continue to encourage that they're not going to Take a risk and say all right how do we lower juvenile possession of marijuana you know that I know you do you know you Legalize It yeah and you control it and rates actually go down whether we're overseas or we're in Colorado your possession rates for marijuana will go down among juveniles but we don't do that we keep looking at everything like we're a hammer

searching for nails and we keep looking for what we're going to hit to stop it instead of standing back And using science and figuring out what are we actually going to do to fix this problem what will actually have results this is a I mean this is very rare to hear a cop talk like this I'm I'm really happy that you're coming forward and and speaking like this but how many people that were with you in the police force or upset about this my closest friends I think understand me I think the vast majority is

upset with me and they're going to be Upset with me because what I'm really trying to do is take power away from them I mean I really am I'm trying to take power from them and give it back to the people cuz we're supposed to be serving them we're not supposed to be this occupying force and this pretty little white boy from the county looks like an an occupying force in the city there's no way around it so I have to be aware of that and and think about that think about what I'm doing not

be an Occupying Force intentionally actually go out of my way to lift up a situation and deescalate it and do better than to come in there and be you're going to jail you're going to jail Shut up let's go which is what I did for a long time so when you say the county what does that mean what when you say white boy from the county what's the county right so the suburbs so in Baltimore it's kind of weird it's a little different so Baltimore is incorporated so it has Nothing to do with the county

so there's like this hard line so it's not where in and the county of what Baltimore County oh okay right so you have the City by itself so here in Los Angeles you think you have Marina del re you have Inglewood you have all this stuff is is La in Baltimore it's just Baltimore so everything is concentrated and focused and and me coming from the county I have never spent any time in the city growing up I come in just as straight from the Marine Corps that's ready to roll we're going to do our thing

uh I'm going to put on a different uniform and continue my War wow so that was that was why you became a cop so you came right from the military and it just seemed like a logical progression it's a logical progression I think I went into the Marine Corps to prepare myself I was a little uh uncontrolled and decided to go into the Marine Corps to get my [ __ ] together and discipline yeah so I could Get into the police department and everything would be and that was my always my goal so your goal

was always to be a police officer right why was that I don't know said it since I was a little kid uh I think you go in with these grandiose ideas that you're going to help people and and and maybe that's why I talk I mean it's still evolving that I that I'm saying these things so you're you're bringing up a point and maybe that's why I talk maybe I feel That it's I wasn't doing what I actually set out to do I was actually exacerbating the situation so you got caught up in the cycle

yourself the cycle of law enforcement and the way law enforcement behaves in Baltimore and it just became habitual totally you don't think about it you just ignore it so when I say that uh I have that suspect that I chased and the guy comes up and kicks him in the face I think to myself God that guy is a [ __ ] [ __ ] but Not me I didn't do it right but I have the responsibility to do something there that was an assault on an innocent victim it's not as bad as mcken but

it's assault on an innocent victim that I should have certainly stepped up and done something about it's just you you're in it you don't I can't explain it how you don't see it until you really just start to slowly step back and it's what what are we doing here we're starting to see more And more um videotapes police stories of of police brutality do you think this is just a result of cell phones or is the violence escalating or has the violence always been there like this but people are finally finding out about it I

think it's actually de-escalating the violence yeah I think you're I think your cell phones are certainly scaring a lot of cops from from doing things but the only variable Here is the proliferation of videos uh video cameras so as you get more and more cameras you're seeing more and more but imagine what it was like before the cameras cops know the cameras are there we've known it for a long time so like we have pole cameras in Baltimore and so if we were going to do something so there's a street called Monument Street that's full

of these cameras that are monitored by the city so as an officer I always knew that if I was on that street I kind of had to behave in a different manner because I knew the camera was there now we know that the camera is there all the time so it's it's got to be much smaller well there's always these guys that you see that you you can't even believe they're real humans like that [ __ ] cop in Texas that showed up at the pool party and did the [ __ ] roll like he's

Paul Blart Mall Cop holy [ __ ] [ __ ] when you find out that that's a real person you just like Wait so so think about that situation so that's the mcken situation where you have a guy assaulting a 14-year-old girl and that Chief still comes out and still he has that Blinder that blue Blinder where he's saying there's 11 good cops there my ass there are there are 12 bad cops there because they just witnessed an assault a 14-year-old girl in a bathing suit and did [ __ ] about it so you have

12 bad cops but the reason why I'm talking is because I do think those 11 other ones can be spoken to I think the guy that comes up and Pats him on the back then is like yo what are you doing why is your gun out if we keep talking to him then maybe he'll be able to go talk to two more people maybe he'll realize what he's doing and we can kind of at least on a Grassroots level kind of change what police think they're supposed to be versus what we are we've talked about

it on the podcast many times that I think that it's one of the Most difficult jobs that a person can do and one of the jobs that has the least amount of respect cops like almost routinely are treated with disrespect and also they're they're no one no one thinks about PTSD for cops people think about it all the time when it comes to soldiers has become much more in the public eye but the amount of stress that's that that's a part of being a police officer what is that like when you're going into these bad

Neighborhoods and you're dealing with murder when you're dealing with all sorts of different assaults and domestic violence and theft and robbery like what is that like to be a person who deals with that every day and how much of a factor does that play in these people snapping on people this is hard for me to say because I don't feel like I had that um I did not find the job stressful when the streets uh the greatest enemy was From within uh they say that in end to watch uh don't worry about the street you

got to worry about what the other officers were doing I missed that too heard it was good yeah it was good it was uh uh the the banter back and forth in that movie is very realistic of what cops act like you think cops are all professional but we're sitting in the car talking about the same things that anybody else talks about and then you're oh [ __ ] something's going on mostly [ __ ] right um yeah anyway so where were we um we were talking about how stressful it is right it's not it

wasn't stressful for me uh are you a weirdo I I don't think so I think I built up that wall uhhuh and do other people have that wall not all of them I know some of them handle things uh more personally so they take that I so I don't think we want those people as cops I understand it's hard For them I I get that but the job's not for anybody you're absolutely right when you say the job is nearly impossible I think it it is impossible to do right so that's why we have to

be more human so that when we screw up we can say look I screwed up and this is why and people will understand where you're coming from whereas with Freddy gray we obviously screwed up there's no way around this but yet we still come out and be like oh what we don't know anything wait till The facts are out [ __ ] you had somebody in your possession and he's dead stop denying it now what was all the [ __ ] about him having a neck injury that turned out to not be true right yeah

that's it was all [ __ ] was it just something somebody made up online is that what it was I think he had an an old car accident or something like that and the case had had some kind of final disposition that was entered into the court records but it was it was Hearken back to something a long time ago so he died from being slammed up against the wall inside the back of a Patty wagon right so that's what's what happened and what was he arrested for okay so let's think about let's put this

in real terms so police always want to put things in legal terms but you're in a high drug area a lieutenant sees Freddy gray well allegedly sees Freddy gray recognize him him turn and run so they chase they Follow him they catch him they search him and do we have a stop and frisk you don't they didn't document a stop and frisk so because he's running does that mean that he that there's he suspicious right so believe it or not the law says that that's fine that you can chase him and you can stop him

so my immediate objection with that case I don't know why I can't think of it off the top of my head but that case there's no clarification on how much force is Allowed to be used so in a stop and frisk you can actually use a legitimate amount of force but in that situation the running I don't I don't really know how much force is allowed to be used there so I was curious how much force they used but apparently they didn't use that much force and they searched him and they got a knife out

of his pocket so let's stop at this knife now how do we get into the knife we searched we went into his Pocket don't we don't have a stop and frisk but even if you can somehow justify that the knife that he has is only illegal if it has an internal spring so how could you feel whether it had an internal spring or not and how many white people do you think carry a knife with internal spring it's going to be the same amount but do any of them ever get arrested never that that internal

spring is so [ __ ] stupid they have thumb releases for knives now That are easier than a switchblade the whole thing is stupid so why do you create a law like that you create a law like that so you can [ __ ] with the people that you want to [ __ ] with that's why we do it cuz they saw Westside storage something like that they had switch blades back then and then now everybody's scared right I had a switch blade in high school I thought it was a badass but then I realized

like it's just a knife you have a regular Knife it's like a better tool like the switch Blade's [ __ ] stupid spring breaks it folds up so this guy had a switchblade is that what the deal was well well we haven't seen The Knife yet but by they don't even mean a switchblade what they're saying is so you have an assistance so you have a flip out and you know how some of them you have to use your whole Force right some of them are assistant right an assistant pocket knife that's This big is

illegal in Baltimore but I assure you that everybody that's been arrested with that is 98% going to be black so they use it as an excuse absolutely so we can [ __ ] with who we want to [ __ ] with it's exactly what we do so his knife was essentially like a utility knife that people might have in there and if you live in a hood mhm you might have a knife on you probably good idea yeah so if I would have called him well I would probably chased him cuz I Think he was

stealing yeah I would have chased him right but I would have stopped him he didn't have the drugs on him he wins I search him I probably do take out the knife but I give it back to him and I say okay be safe sorry about that and we're good we're playing the game we know did it bug you that you were looking for drugs did that ever like go what the [ __ ] am I doing being some sort of a glorified Revenue collector for the state pulling people Over and for drugs yeah you're

totally right there is no point in any consensual daughter agreements to fight against them but but but my whole point is to keep it real it was [ __ ] fun it was fun it was [ __ ] great fun to catch him yes I live for the car chase I mean you think about this think about if you're in a police car and you have the lights and sirens and you're going down like Coastal Highway or you're going down Your favorite 101 or whatever it is and you're going through your side roads and you're

chasing this guy there is no Adrenaline Rush that's ever compared to that it you live for it it's it's incredible it's amazing and and you don't really I I didn't really care why give me the car chase it was it was amazing that's so refreshingly honest I'm so glad you're talking like this cuz I always thought that too I always felt like they it must be exciting for them Like a [ __ ] it's amazing cheatah chasing a gazelle know I have three good stories we can tell later on that I mean it's just like

oh you can understand if you're in that situation is that one of the reasons why so many cops shoot people it's like the idea of the rush of being in a gunfight the rush of finding someone who deserves to get shot you know it's like when you're hunting all right you you know you see animals that you're not supposed to shoot but I swear To God there's a part of your [ __ ] brain that wants to shoot a squirrel with like a 300 wind mag you don't do it but there's a part of your

brain you like you have a rifle you're looking through the crosshairs squirrel doesn't even know you're there you don't do it but there's a part of you that wants to and I'm like why does that even exist because people like hitting targets same reason why you like going to the range and shooting at those steel targets like Why do you because people like hitting things with guns cuz you have a gun like you said when you have a hammer everything looks like a nail and when you're in your cop car and someone takes off whether

or not it makes sense to chase him it must feel like the right thing to do right like your instincts I'm going to go with you on the car chase I'm not going to go with you on the shooting for like was I Looking for the Target yeah I was you know if I had a guy with a knife I was sitting there I was telling him put it down put it down but in my head I'm going [ __ ] don't put it down you want him to come out sh [ __ ] cop

I'm going out there you know it's like this is what you do but but you had a line for I yeah and I wasn't going to cross it I certainly was going to cross it I was ready to shoot if I had to but I was never going to cross that line but you Kind of wanted to shoot sure wow I mean I come from the I come from the Marine Corps I was in fast team this is what I did I was trained from 17 I went in the Marine Court 17 I was handled

a rifle in boot camp and I went into special ops and I was trained day in and day out to kill that's that's the honest truth and then I have to transition into bringing those SK that skill set into the police department where I luckily I was able to separate myself and it wasn't an issue For me but I don't think that's where the shootings come from I'm pretty convinced that your military members actually won't shoot I I'm convinced that the shooting Come From Fear ah that makes a lot of sense so the military members

have more discipline they've been through real war and they understand shooting and death better yeah I think you just understand the Rules of Engagement better whereas the people that come from civilian life and You know there's a [ __ ] video of this guy who's this big fat slob who's a cop and uh he's trying to get a hold of this guy and the guy winds up beating his ass and there's like this chaos thing running around but I'm looking at that guy and I'm like this guy does not there's no way this guy should

be a [ __ ] law enforcement officer he's just way too out of shape he's just way too undisciplined you know his his body is just not serving him correctly and He's involved in physical altercations with criminals and to be a person that is in day-to-day contact with people that may or may not want to kill you like you have to have a certain amount of awareness and you have to have a certain amount of physical ability yeah and you have to trust those abilities you have to realize that you're going to be able to

handle that situation uh I think it's easier in a city um than it would be for a Pennsylvania state trooper or something I don't know what I would do in their shoes and they're stuck out in the middle of nowhere by themselves in a city all you got to do is hold on for 30 seconds you're going to get help but how they do it in those environments baffling to me but they don't get into a lot of shootings as much as Urban environments because I I I think it's that fear but I think as

a nation We Fear the black man he's the de So you saw that Mike Brown when that cop says oh he had a demon's look in his eye Demon's look in his eye what are you talking about do you ever see anybody say that Dylan rof oh he looked like he had a demon look in his eye they don't say that they say oh this troubled youth but the black gu is the demon so we have that in our society that that's the criminal so that's who we're looking at and that's who we're fearing we're

fearing the black men raping our Daughters we're fearing that that whether we want to face it or not as a nation it's real and we have to face it if we want to learn how to police properly and we actually want to get our nation back to where it is and we stop we tear down these borders these things that we do these social constructs your flags your your whether we have a a line down at Mexico so that they can't come over here we don't help them and and we have our states and we

do all this other All so much dumb [ __ ] that we just make up to separate ourselves but there's no difference he he's got more melatonin than I do wonderful whatever they're just human being yeah we're all the same we know this scientifically we know this I I agree with you on that but there the guy that shot the people in Colorado that was one of the first things they said is is he looked possessed that the his eyes were I mean I absolutely agree with you that there's institutionalized Racism I absolutely agree with

you but I think anytime someone becomes a school shooter or I mean they they treat that person like they're some Psychopathic Maniac yeah I'll con see that did you get into altercations where you had to shoot people I I I could have pulled the trigger justifiably quite a few times but you never did no no me you 11 11 years in Baltimore in the city and he didn't have to shoot anybody no no no I I can't I mean you're I know of two That were pretty happened pretty close to me that were completely completely

clean shootings and again it was it was an X Marine maybe I'm being biased I don't know but well it makes sense to me I don't think you're being biased at all I would want someone first of all it's a logical progression if someone is looking for a good job and they get out of the military it's a logical progression I would trust military members more than I would trust a Civilian who's never seen any any real gun fire or any any real [ __ ] you know someone who has never experienced any sort of

altercation like that and all of a sudden being thrust into it you just got to hope they can keep it together I know some people can but a lot of people can't someone who's been through the Marines someone who's been through you know anything a Navy SEAL someone who's been through war that person in my eyes is a much more qualified candidate than The average person it makes sense so when you're talking to me and you're saying that you had a certain amount of discipline and you had a certain but you're also being very honest

about you wanted them to come at you you know which I think is a natural human instinct I think it's very important that you're talking like this I really do because I think um there's a lot of people that would shy away from talking like that especially someone Who's still had a career in law enforcement you know I I I think my my hopes for resuming a career in law enforcement are probably over yeah unless someone comes along and listens to this with an open mind and realizes no this [ __ ] guy is exactly

what we need and I think that is exactly what we need we need people like you and we need people like you who other people are going to listen to and say well here's a guy who's on our side here's a guy who's Not a racist here's a guy who's not just looking to shoot people and lock people up here's a guy who really came into this job wanting to help and experienced a bunch of [ __ ] chaos yeah it's chaos there's no other better word for it it's it's the biggest [ __ ]

show you'll see is going to an urban environment and being thrust in that because you're it's not just that's I saying it's not just the street it's internal as well the whole thing is a big cluster [ __ ] of Mismanagement and no one's caring about what we actually need to do we need to end the damn drug war this is ridiculous that we're doing this so that's most of what you're arresting people for oh gosh I don't is it all of it 90 90% Jesus [ __ ] Christ how crazy is that how crazy

is that 90% that's all that matters there is guns and drugs guns and drugs guns and drugs guns and drugs and guns probably are there so they could sell drugs and defend themselves defend Themselves right yeah [ __ ] ay man what a crazy crazy situation just a bizarre police state setup by the fact that drugs are illegal man it does I mean it invades the the entire thing so when we we saw what happened with alcohol right gangs take over and you have violence do you want to lower the violence isn't that the mission

of the police do you want to lower the violence then every single Chief out there needs to be Saying hey we need to end this drug war stop it yeah how many cops are saying that we need to stop bars how about none there are single bar you know that's what causes all the fighting we all know that if they were all sitting around smoking they nothing would have happened yeah but also I support their right to get [ __ ] up if they want you know I i' I've been drunk a lot I've never

heard anybody body never never did anything [ __ ] up never caus any crimes never Hurt anybody never you know I just don't think that human I think human beings should be able to do whatever the [ __ ] they want I think when you when you violate somehow or another you violate either other people's rights or other people's safety or other people's Health and Welfare then it becomes a real issue and you should be prosecuted based on whatever transgressions you've committed right so don't you agree then that the Drug Ward distracts you from actually

being real police 100% totally turn you away from it what kind of relationship did you have with the people in Baltimore that you like your area did you be develop friendships did you develop any sort of connection with those folks none I was an occupying Force I I I handled my stuff and I went out because so so to to know you if you were in my neighborhood I would have to stop and talk to you right I'd have to Spend time with you I may even have to talk to your kids we we could

shoot the [ __ ] on the corner or something like that but the whole time I'm doing that the the Departments are going to actually be criticizing me and saying I'm not doing my job because you're not writing tickets or you're not pulling people over you're not you don't you're not meeting your quotas I'm not getting my stats I'm not making the arrest that I need to make so I was I came out of The academy and went and walked foot where Freddy gray is in the Gilmore Homes so that was my first foray so

I got solidified into this Us Versus Them you threw me right into the biggest war zone we had on foot on foot how many who who are you with another another trainee that had no idea what the hell he was doing either we would team up with two others so you're playing cops right we're totally playing wow and we were doing all drug arrests so we would go up And we would like go in covert and into the projects cuz the projects had heat and it was winter time so you could like break into one

of the the doors and it had heat and it and then you could watch what happened in the courtyard and people would sell and we would have you one of us would run down out out of the room circle around so you would go and break into a room because it had heat in it right because they're projects they're they they the heat stays on so It' be an empty a vacant uh apartment like right yeah and the heat would be on did you pick the lock or did just kick you could always find a

way in whether pick a lock you get a key there was always a way in some someone else usually already did it for you right and and we would watch them and like my first arrest went down there and grabbed him and the first thing he said is uh these aren't my pants cuz he knew he had the drug We pants my pants that's the first guy you arrested that's hilarious boy did you know you were in for a [ __ ] world of weirdness what what a great way to start off a career that's

like the perfect way the the first guy you arrest says these are not my first thing to say I grab his arm so I I go there and I go to the southern which is a area where it's um you would be fascinated there I'm just going to be plainly honest cuz that's The whole point of this is you have a black ghetto you have white trash for the most part and then you have this cluster next to it of really good people uh doctors lawyers just regular people that in that area that are nice

and they mingle together and it's it's chaos so I go from that Cas how's it chaos because uh college kids that are going to University of Maryland think that they can just walk down the street into the bad neighborhood and everything will be Fine they think they can drink and walk down the street and nothing's going to happen to them uh the the and what does happen oh they're going to geted I mean they know it we know they didn't know it we knew it he was like hey what are you doing don't do that

uh the the the whites in the neighborhood you would have a really hard time figuring out your reports because you were supposed to put in like who the person's relationship was and you're like wait is It your cousin is that wait so he's your cousin and your uncle this isn't making sense so what block do I put the guy that did it was he your cousin or no he was your uncle it's like no and everything was all together so like there's so much in breeding really that you actually you would have these crazy things

um that you would have Hispanics that came in and were trying to come up themselves and it it was all just go together it's chaos you can go there Right now and it's just a crazy societal test bed of everybody coming together from these entirely different backgrounds and there's real in breing yeah it's like super common everybody knows it yeah really what the [ __ ] so I go from there and I go to so in breedings like you you run into that every day not every day once a week yeah maybe if you're working

there [ __ ] a man so I go from there and I go to the Northern District which Is uh this area called Mount Washington Mount Washington is a upper class 80% to 90% white uh you have judges that live there you have nice houses 400 $500,000 houses and now I'm in this environment and it's like holy [ __ ] where am I yeah I'm in whel land now I have this road that's called Cross Country Boulevard and it has a stream next to it what the hell am I doing here so I'm expected to

get the same amount of arrests and I'm expected to write to ticket so I have Bosses that are telling me like you're not doing anything like what am I supposed to do I'm like in a good neighborhood what do I do so I would leave my area go to the black neighborhoods and make drug arrests so I could appease my bosses with my arrest numbers so you're continuing that cycle once again I'm leaving that area to go poach and specifically continue that cycle and I'm doing it because that's what I'm supposed to be doing so

if you Were in a place that had no crime you would get in trouble yeah yeah I had my one sergeant had to defend me constantly because I went to a post in in that same district where I started bringing the crime numbers down but I didn't have the arrest and he's he had to defend me to his bosses saying like look he hasn't had a part one a serious crime in in a long time that's like that's his job and I was getting criticized the whole time cuz I didn't have as many right yeah

That's like the ultimate goal right is to have no crime shouldn't that be the metric that should be it's not a metric but if we all had no crime like I I've also I've often proposed this like if we had a moratorium on crime if the whole country got together and said all right no one for the next month we can go 30 days without speeding 30 days without illegal terms 30 days without any violent crime 30 days without any theft what would Happen uh we'd probably make some up make up some cries just to

arrest black people that would be what reality is but what that's what we should so like my liberal idea of policing would be to empower that officer that's on the street so even if there wasn't crime then what he would really be doing is making sure that the alley was cleaned up solving problems that are in the neighborhood so whatever the problem could possibly be you know there's this Guy that constantly parks on this corner and the street sweeper can't get it well fix all those problems so even if you don't have crime the the

peace officer The Protector should still have plenty of things to do so it shouldn't be just crime crime should be an element of of what police do do you have to pull over people and write tickets for like speeding and [ __ ] like that or no Baltimore doesn't care about that they don't care no you can just drive crazy Yeah pretty much really there's there's no traffic cops or anything like that in the city what um yeah it does it just doesn't work that way um what yeah there's no traffic cops I mean maybe

a district here there might have one guy that kind of primarily does traffic but it it's just Patrol officers are expected to handle traffic and again remember I'm not being judged right on that so I don't why would I care right so my car Stu the only reason I do a car Stop is to get guns or drugs or maybe a warrant like so so if I want a plate right right and a guy has a warrant driver has a warrant then yeah I'm going to do that so I'm not going to do it unless

it's I have a possibility of an arrest I'm not going to sit there and write bull crap tickets did you arrest the same guys more than once yeah yeah plenty of times especially when I was doing narcotics so after I went from the northern I went to a unit called the Violent crime impact division and it was like plain close got to have the tats out and be all tough and run around like your you were you know they called knockers in the city and so from there you're dealing with the same street level dealers

all the time and uh one of those kids actually really struck me um maybe so a great irony that I had in doing drug work is usually drug work makes you send you to the deeper into it and it actually pulled me out because I Would interview these guys in uh the little rooms and this one guy Daniel Taylor is the one I'm specifically remembering and he was just a marijuana dealer and he had a kid and he was struggling to have this kid he was young he was trying to help but he had gotten

a lot loed up a lot when he was younger so he was selling weed to just like buy diapers for his kid and he would tell me his stories and like we would be there and he would be crying and it was just Like [ __ ] there's no difference between this kid and me there's nothing the only difference between this kid and me is that when I had a dime bag in my pocket there wasn't a [ __ ] chance in hell someone was going to look but him he was going to get caught

eventually and it sent him into that spiral and this could have been a good kid and I wouldn't be surprised if he was still in jail now and there was just nothing wrong with him we Our whole system created a criminal out of a decent kid it was it was shocking to me like I I like I knew I was following the rules and and so I had to arrest him I had to finish this up because I was doing what I was supposed to be doing but it was kind of heartbreaking to start to

see that these people they didn't they weren't different than us they just had a different environment than us and we should be changing that environment not Changing them so you felt this so let me back up a bit this going into this district and this new position why were you allowed to wear regular clothes and what was the idea you're supposed to blend in is that the idea yeah so you're supposed to have an advantage to sneak up and all that and so I have to tell a quick funny story about that but you're a

white guy yeah this is really good story you're going to appreciate it okay so I that's always a struggle right so The tattoo is he black face no no stop it so why is that bad I don't understand it I really don't go ahead so the tats were out I had a red Mazda 6 with tinted windows Virginia tags cut off sleeves was rolling down thinking I was blending in this is it I look like I'm some buying this is going to be anything do you consider maybe like carving a lightning bolt in your hair

should have done something crazy to look a little more like I was out there buying like Your transracial perhaps I'm not opening that can either not going to can's already open you don't even have to dig in it's overflowing have an opinion on that I'm so happy that girl's alive I'm so happy this debate is on it gives you fodder well yes I'm I'm a fan of human Folly so so you're rolling around like a white guy sticking out like a sore thumb thinking I wasn't and turned the corner and literally I like four-year-old boy

He's like yo dare them knockers right there like [ __ ] this is his good as I get this is all I have and I I still couldn't blend in so what was the point they they're watch one so they knew that there's a position that cops get into where they they're allowed to dress like normal people we're called knockers in Baltimore and you're called knockers by the police department as well or but just by the by civilians civilians and why do you think they're Called knockers obvious answer why knock heads that's what you do

oh I see you run the street you're the force you're the enforcement team so that's actually what was caused of enforcement team we we went out there and stamped down the drug is there pressure to be intim inating to like to you must yes you must be intimidating I wouldn't survive so so you can look at me and you can think of me being in the wire and Jamie would I have survived if I was not intimidating No no I wouldn't have survived I need to watch The Wire God damn it so like a technique

is actually to find one of the biggest baddest dudes in your area and kick his ass punk him Punk him yeah you have to do you use weapons or what how do you do no no no you're going to arrest him for something you're going to be a little rough with him uhhuh uh you're going to do something to uh cuz he's the he's the king dog in that neighborhood right so you have to assume The alpha role if you don't do that you're going to get run over a lot of cops don't do it

but if you don't do that you are not going to survive in a drug unit for sure you're going to get trampled why do you why do you survive if you do do it I would think you're makeing an enemy yeah it's a battle it's a war it's what it is it's a drug war don't be fooled that's what it is that's what we created so it's US versus them and if I'm going to be ahead I have to be the Alpha Dog right you know I've never obviously never been a cop but I I

worked as a security guard for a while at this concert place and one of the things that I recognized really early on was that there was a US versus them mentality just from [ __ ] security guards at a concert place and I would imagine the US versus them between cops and the people on the street gets pretty [ __ ] intense pretty big Division and That is how you can have a black officer who's participating in a racist organization just like anybody else did you have a lot of black officers you Baltimore is about

it's about even wow so but there's no difference uh maybe even the black officers are a little bit more aggressive I have a theory on that but well that was an IC tea thing IC tea used to talk about that in song it yeah that I think that's what they've always felt that there was black cops that made Up for the fact that they were black by being extra brutal yeah that's what they thought I don't actually think that that's why uh it's conjecture about my part but I think that's because they're actually they they

feel embarrassed that those people they they feel like like the black criminals are making the black race the black community look bad so they're kind of like extra angry whereas I'm not going to be angry because I Don't care oh I see huh maybe it could be a little bit of both yeah or either or sure certainly to for different people wow what the [ __ ] dude what a crazy life you lived yeah I didn't think about it like that half the time right but now being out of it how long did it take

before you realize how [ __ ] crazy it was it started when I was in but it started with like talking to that kid it was right and then I would also sit in covert and watch so you'll love This one time I was we were doing a long investigation and I had this vacant building that I would hide in and a homeless dude was there and a homeless dude would like leave magazines for me and then like I would come in during the day and he would come in at night it was a weirdest

exchange we never crossed paths though he would leave magazines for you yeah yeah yeah cop monthly yeah no no no it was a cop monthly he'd leave Playboy or he'd leave yeah High Times Something like that whatever he had and he knew I was there I knew he was there but we never actually crossed paths but they had a so he left them for you though yeah yeah we both knew we were there and uh he had a there was a picture big huge picture of Jesus filling the window and so I carved out Jesus's

eyes and I would stand behind him and that's how I watched so it had like this double meaning Jesus Christ so was actually Standing behind him watch it all the drug dealers on the investigation but while I would watch all these investigations like that you would see everything for what it was and not for your perceptions because you were there for so long so I would see the dealer sitting there but then I would see him take care of his kid I would see him sit down and make food I would hear the other people

in the neighborhood talking about their lives and hearing the smells Of this you know hearing the sounds smelling the smells and and realizing that this this wasn't a war this this is ridiculous that we were doing this this was not the enemy this was a a socioeconomic problem that we had to deal with but this isn't this isn't the enemy we are not at War this this is preposterous so by being embedded in their their Community you recognize that we really are or you really were an occupying force in just a a community That's trying

to get by just a bunch of people that are just like you or I but their circumstances were unfortunate they were born into this this situation where this this cycle is perpetuated over and over and over again and you got a chance to see it right let's not fool ourselves we won all won the lottery here by being born in America mhm we all won the lottery by being white so we have to recognize not Rachel not go are you she's not she's Not white she identifies as black I I don't again I don't have

an opinion on that I don't should don't send me down that rabbit hole you should orange is a new black right she's orange mhm ever look at her skin sorry wrong you're wrong I'm not wrong look she did some good work too she's a good uh she was running the NAACP very well clear issues there though she's got some Mission she likes black Dudes she want to fit in it goes a little F farther than that a little bit whatever I get you some people want to be chicks some people want to be black who

gives a [ __ ] yeah let her be black sure she's helping I got you a lot of people got mad at her though yeah I can imagine we're getting off track it's all right did other officers share your your I want to say like I I don't want to say humanization but your recognition of the fact that these folks are just Like you did other officers have that same feeling I I think a lot of them do absolutely it wasn't discussed no I mean you don't discuss it while you're in uh except for maybe

a few people when I was a sergeant I had a uh a pretty good sphere of influence so our Squad was a little more talkative about things like that and could be open and discuss those kind of things uh I took an officer once and just put on plane clothes and kind of walked around the district just not Being cops and and that shows you like how much different the neighborhood is than what you think because you go from 911 call to 911 call to 911 call seeing everybody at their worst and when you're not

seeing them at their worst you're hunting for somebody that you can possibly pretend that they're doing at their worst you know whether they have drugs on them or or whatever but when you go through the city it's not at all what you think it is so even me looking Like a a prototypical white kid looking to sell to buy drugs in the in the hood when I would go through the dealer it's not like the dealers are pushers I mean they would come up yo you want a party no you keep on moving sometimes they

didn't trust me I was in too good a shape they'd be like no but they want like they were like pressuring you it's not like things were chaos in the neighborhood ladies were sweeping their steps but the neighborhood changes when You have that blue uniform and those lights and and you're now the authority you kind of have to see the city for what it's like when you're not there right so your point of view riding in a car it's like there's a filter super myopic yeah yeah and you never really get a chance to experience

it like a person who lives there I mean even you don't really if you don't live there but I mean just you get a better view of it walking around and not not acting as a Cop right it's it seems common sense that you would do that what would you think about cops being forced to live in the places that they have to patrol I think as a try that's a real tough situation uh it's a real tough argument very nuanced um I I would there's no way I would live in Baltimore City because I

didn't make enough money for my daughter to go to a private school and I wasn't sending her to that school to prison cycle right so I moved the PA where I Could send her to a good school and actually afford to now sure if I made enough money if if you're going to pay an officer $150,000 $160,000 yeah he can stay in the city he or she can stay in the city but when you say PA you lived in Pennsylvania right so how far away was that from where you were 40 minutes so you would

live in Pennsylvania send your kid to school there and then drive to work right [ __ ] man and that's common so a lot of police living in the Southern PA area driving back and forth in Maryland a lot of workers period do that there's a lot of communities around La like SEI Valley is a big one where there's big communities of police officers is that the same thing with there where they just sort of decide to live near each other close together well you don't do it intentionally no it's economically driven oh okay so

it's economically driven like you find a place that's Affordable but you don't you you don't try to move where the other cops live no no I wouldn't want to do that and we worked with them all day well I know uh my friends that are cops they actually did it on purpose or some that live in Santa Clarita they're a little deeper than they they're pretty deep into that then well you know how it is it becomes comes like a gang right doesn't it it is we actually say in the city that there is one

gang and that's The blue gang so like we don't let people like so aggression is good in a certain extent we don't let gang members throw Flags like so in my post if somebody had a red bandana or blue bandana sticking out of their pocket that [ __ ] was not going down so you arrested someone I would arrest him I would just Punk him Punk him so so you embarrass him in front of his friends you take his stuff and you roll out did you ever experience resistance that's Sure they're going to resist if

they're going to resist that then it's going to go bad shoot at you or anything crazy like that no nothing no because it's the game so I'm respecting the game you know there's a game the drug game so I have my role the drug dealer has his role and we're playing this back and forth and as long as we all play by the rules everything is fine as soon as the cops stop playing by the rules of the game then you have a problem as soon as they Stop playing by the rules of the game

you have a problem does did the futility of it all was that obvious yeah incredibly obvious there's there's no point so we had a I remember a case we had where there was a group that was selling drugs and we worked on it for about a week or two took down the whole group and two days later there was a whole new crew running the exact same neighborhood throwing the same product and we were just like [ __ ] that was Pointless right we just took all them off there was no point to it whatsoever

and it was all drugs anyway it's all drugs [ __ ] a man everything is drugs this you know if I was a conspiracy theorist I kind of been one in the past but I've mostly abandoned that but if I was I would feel like this is engineered I would feel like this is just set up to make sure that these people stay poor that you keep arresting people and you You keep this cycle going I don't think you're a conspiracy thirst well is that I think you're right is it because it exists and because

the system sort of feeds off of it or was it engineered I think the prison industrial complex has a huge role in that so especially with you're privatizing prisons so you're creating a vacancy for a bed that must be filled so who's going to fill that so this is where institutional racism also comes in I'm not going to fill it with You we're not going to fill it with me we're not going to fill it with Jamie Jamie's sketchy look at him no we're going to fill it with the people we like the least right

as a society the people that you feel like you can demonize the easiest when that judge got arrested in Pennsylvania for sending kids to jail and juvenile just for money we really got a view into this world that I don't think would have uh I think a lot of people that opened their eyes they went Whoa a [ __ ] judge judges can be that bad judges can be so evil that they would ruin a child's life just so they could profit off of it but that's essentially what's going on by keeping the system the

way it is today the Baltimore Police who was he the head of Baltimore Police the commissioner anthon he resigned or was he fired he was fired he was fired and why was he fired because of all this [ __ ] that's going Down yeah I it's a really hard situation to say I he's he's fired because he never led the agency he never had the agency ever we're really don't like Outsiders so when he comes in here from Oakland from California no offense he came from Oakland mhm Oakland's [ __ ] up too Oakland is

like one of the worst police brutality spots in California you find that to be coincidental that there was a Uprising in Oakland and an uprising in Baltimore two agencies he led this [ __ ] what's he doing now put him in jail how about that see how he lasts no you don't think that's going to happen to you is it no no um so what is his name again this guy Anthony bats and what did he do that was [ __ ] up he just never had the agency so every never take responsibility you can't

so they come in and they come in with these ideals of what it's like in Baltimore and they don't know what it's like in Baltimore because he knows what it's like in Oakland he knows he well I mean hypothetically barely barely it seems right um so they come in with these just these ideals and this uh I don't know Aura and they're never going to get us like they're never going to get us to follow them so it doesn't matter what he does we're not going to follow him he doesn't he after the riots he

said he should have trusted his instincts and done more than than to rely on his Commanders like you just threw your commanders under the bus and public and you think this agency is going to follow you what is you you kidding me so he's a politician essentially tot they all are that's one of our problems that's why we have to get money out because we're led by politicians and policing oh what could be done like if you like let's say this thing becomes bigger and look I I think what you're doing today is very courageous

and you're speaking Very eloquently and very articulate and you're honest and and I I really believe you man I I believe you from the heart 100% it there's a possibility that people like you and all these activists that are they're making these giant protests happen and causing all these people to be aware of all this police brutality and this [ __ ] horrible cycle that these people are are thrust into a guy like you could really Change something a guy like you if you were in a position of power there there might be something that

you could do would you consider doing something like that I would consider it if we had the environment to do so because it's going to be ugly at first because I can't stop the drug war it's not it's not in my control well you shouldn't stop the drug war what like what what if this is a big hypothetical but what if we went into Some sort of a situation this comp in this country where drugs became decriminalized where the United States woke the [ __ ] up and realized we've been doing the same [ __

] that they did during the [ __ ] 20s during the you know prohibition we're doing the same [ __ ] we we're telling people what they can't do they're not listening and we're feeding organized crime we're feeding crime that is filling a vacuum just like it's going on in Mexico right Now just like these poor [ __ ] people that live in these border towns in Mexico the it's all being fueled by the fact that drugs are illegal and they're selling these drugs to America if all of a sudden that changed how much of

an impact would that have on police it would be striking that that again that's 90% of what I did so if we would stop doing that it would be incredibly advantageous but what would they do with you guys see what I'm saying like let's Focus let's investigate violence let's figure out how we're going to fix things so so use some science to say we have a problem what do we do to actually solve this problem instead of being fueled by ideology what are we actually doing well you saw this recent thing when Obama's going to

release all these non-violent drug offenders I mean that's a good step I concur completely that's a great step now if he does that and if the next step is obviously not arresting violent Non-violent drug offenders not arresting them at all like where there's no more arrest for drugs unless there's violence involved and then you're arresting someone for violence which is totally reasonable doesn't have it doesn't matter if they're violent over [ __ ] stuffed animals or cocaine who gives a [ __ ] they're violent right they're hurting somebody that's why they're arrested how much would

that transform Neighborhoods how much would that transform this entire cycle of people going from communities that are just engulfed in crime and becoming a part of that themselves because they were unlucky enough to be born there I think it's the biggest thing we could do as a nation I only put uh Wolfpack and uh getting money out of politics I of it because I question that we can actually do that as money continues to fuel the politicians and Wolfpack is what's set Up by The Young Turks right right yeah which is [ __ ] fantastic

I love that there's another thing that my friend Steve Hilton put together called crowd pack where you could see exactly what politicians are being supported by by what where they're getting their donations from and just and what they vote on and get get a a real clear uh analysis of their position based on influence based on the amount of money they're receiving and where it's coming From so it's all shocking [ __ ] because I just would hope that as we move forward as a as a human race as we move forward as civilization moves

forward and we Embrace technology and we we understand that we have more access to information now than any human beings that have ever lived ever to keep living the same way even though we have all these obvious problems in front of us is ridiculous I mean it's it's literally the definition of insanity doing the same thing over And over again hoping for a different result that is the definition of insanity right totally agree there there there there's no way around it that we're doing this wrong and that's why I'm saying the only reason I'm saying

this is because we are doing it so wrong and it's so blatantly wrong it's it's like you have to have a cognitive bias to not see this like how how the it's really the older generation I kind of have pretty much confidence that our Generations and younger will be able to solve this once we get in power but how they don't see this now is absolutely baffling and I don't I think they don't see it because it doesn't affect them so why should they care were you still on the force where that when that guy

got choked to death in Staten Island I don't think I was when I was Eric Gardner yeah Eric Gardner that one drove me [ __ ] crazy because there's a video of it you get to see the fact that this guy was so Innocent there's nothing wrong with what he was doing he's just hanging out two cents tax evasion or something tax evasion then exactly the idea that these cops are going to choke a guy to death because he's not paying taxes on loose cigarettes not only that he didn't even have any loose cigarettes on

him and they wrestled him the ground and choked him and then tried to say that it wasn't a choke hold the I mean that one just highlights the difference between the Way they treated that guy versus the way they would treat one of their own versus it's a clear US versus them and they felt like they could do that they could do that they had the papers were signed they had the directive it was obvious that it was within their boundaries to take this guy guy and to physically assault him and and arrest him yeah

and so they don't have empathy so if you want to see them have empathy please we we need to be moral we need to be human That's what I'm like my main message is we have to lead with empathy that's the starting point of everything so if if I'm going after that guy I can immediately see that whether there's a law or not the idea that I'm going to take someone's Freedom away like they took his life away but they were planning to take his freedom away for essentially nothing in stupid tax that's a pennies

that service yeah to somebody if you don't have five bucks and you Want a cigarette that guy's providing a service yeah so why don't you uh let him set up a little booth and he can did not only that didn't he pay taxes on those [ __ ] St so what Jesus Christ I mean you know he's making a little bit of a profit but who gives a [ __ ] totally no one's getting hurt no one literally no one's getting hurt and the money that they could have made just by eliminating the drug war

in taxes would make that look like a pittance just the amount of Taxes they're getting from Colorado Colorado's [ __ ] changed I mean it is morphing right in front of our eyes and becoming this free Utopia yeah you got a lot of dirty hippies there and a lot of [ __ ] homeless people but that's part of the rap you're going to get that they don't bother anybody though we know that I mean they might bother you a little bit but whatever change yeah who gives a [ __ ] I mean that's that's so

why don't conservatives see This I mean why don't these're White and they live in the suburbs they're my neighbors don't they want money I mean that money is going to go to their schools as well that that's going to make it safer for their kid to go to Fourth of July in the city that's going to make it safer for all of us the answer is blatantly obvious that we must end the war on drugs and we must get money out of politics but we just sit here with our sitting on our hands well I

agree with you but I think you having these kind of conversations live online um in in a in a a form like this where it's going to be distributed to millions of people you have the opportunity to influence people that might not see things your way because you have a a genuine insight and a and and a real perspective that very few people including me could ever hope to have you saying this kind of stuff and you talking about this kind of stuff can Shed some light in a way that other people can't I'm listen

to you talk here man I'm like you're the [ __ ] perfect commissioner you're the you're the kind of guy that I would want running a police department you you you're a guy who's been there a guy who's served the country been there as a cop understands what the problems are and and has Solutions and has empathy and really is you're saying all the right [ __ ] I mean this is what we need this is what the Police of Departments of the world of this country at least need we need someone like you so

how do I convince other cops of that that's that's my struggle I don't know man I mean I know a lot of cops listen to this [ __ ] podcast I'll tell you that I I mean I don't know if this is going to change them they're going to [ __ ] Joe Rogan's High listen you a out on the streets with us dude but you know you've seen the blue Thin Blue Line sticker Right yes the black on the top black on the bottom so so we even visualize ourselves the wrong way so we're

this Thin Blue Line and The Thin Blue Line goes to the middle and it separates the good guys from the bad guys and it makes us neither our entire mentality is that we are somebody that's separate we're not the good guys or the bad guys we're a separate entity that that runs this [ __ ] and and but that that shouldn't be that way that should be like a blurred Blue and black we should be part of our the fabric of our society and we should we should be ingrained in it but instead we fix

ourselves like a wall MH and we shouldn't be a wall I think human beings inherently have a problem with power you know that's why you see I mean you see it across the board when people have power and influence over people like it seems to be a natural inclination to abuse it and it takes someone of very strong character and insight and Objectivity like yourself to not do that or at least to recognize that you have done that and that it is wrong or that it was wrong it seems to me that like whether it's

politicians or whether it's a military or whether it's whether it's someone like [ __ ] Bill Cosby you know like how does a guy become that guy well it has to be out of power you know I mean it's the power even even just it might be a stretch but the power to drug someone the P the ability to do That and yeah it's like how what it what is it about human beings that that makes them exploit people that are below them instead of trying to raise those people up to their level there's some

fundamental lack of understanding about the the Brotherhood and Sisterhood of the human race that gets it it all gets [ __ ] up when you have a job and it seems to me that if you have a quota and if you have a a boss that's telling you you need to arrest more people you need To lock up more people like these streets are too safe you're either either you're doing the right thing or you're not doing enough and they almost always think you're not doing enough right they they never would think oh this guy

got lucky and he created a good relationship with all these people and we locked up all the bad guys and all the people in the community that are left are all safe there's no more violent criminals it's a beautiful Utopia of a neighborhood and we never never have to arrest anybody there ever again so cops would just be there just sort of to say hi and Patrol the streets yeah that sounds like a great idea and but you see it right you see that so you see it so the first step is to recognize it

and so do we have a problem with power we have as human beings maybe we do so let's acknowledge that and put measures in place so that we don't exceed our power boundaries have some Checks and balances in law enforcement cuz we have zero we did away with everything we want to get get away with until there's a camera the only difference all these other things that you've seen in the past you've heard these stories of guys getting shot unarmed but yet he was attacking my gun or he was taking my gun how much do

you really believe those now well we saw that that one where the guy in South Carolina shot the guy in the back and Then dropped the taser he walked up to him and threw the taser down near his body I mean cop anything there's a video of it I don't know if the other cops saw it I don't know he saw him do it it's right in front of him saw he thinks nothing of it cuz right on video cuz it's normal it's normal we're not going to do saw the one guy is the other

guy in the video the other guy see the the taser CU it obvious that he sees it I mean he's standing right next to him Know he could I don't I don't know but the fact that he shot him in the back while he was running away I mean that's kind of [ __ ] crazy it's crazy is that guy's being charged for murder right well that's nice and but it's because anybody R nobody rioted there but why because they're busy all they're all booked all the uprising D was booked D was booked too many

things what happened with d you got him to not not this guy D is a uh a Really Noble activist and I appreciate everything this guy's doing and I I appreciated him uh making Wolf Blitzer look like a [ __ ] idiot on TV but uh he had me blocked for some reason but you got him to unblock me I got him to unblock you um but I think I it's totally conjecture but I think he's just leery of us and I understand that white people us we're in the same group yeah I think so

right and he's a but why did he block me cuz I'm white that that had Something to do no his blocking has something to do with something he thought that you said what do you think I said I don't remember but how you not no you're going to have to talk to him oh okay you can't say it no I mean I I just don't know enough and I didn't dig it's not my business okay so so he thought I said something racist I I don't know what he thought you said he said he thought

you said something that he didn't you didn't like and I just Said you know trust me he's fine he's he's he's one of the good guys don't worry about it okay um maybe said a joke said something off color it's always hard problem with being a comedian man maybe heard me talk about transracialism and how I support it I think he's probably a little goof on that himself well he should be but why not [ __ ] it he's a good guy and I I hope things but I I understand his lack of trust well

I understand I guess um but I understand Not not I don't understand his lack of trust for me I just don't understand that I'm so trustworthy but I understand what he's doing and I think it's spectacular he to me is a real activist as opposed to Al Sharpton who just makes my [ __ ] blood curdle when I see that guy show up at any [ __ ] event that has anything to do with black people I just Jesus [ __ ] Christ that guy does more harm than he does good just by his just

Greasy past his history and just there's so much about him that's just so wrong and it's nice to see someone like d come along it's nice to see a real activist someone who is intelligent is articulate is doing all the right things and I think between a guy like that between between many people like him I'm sure there's a lot more people like him that I'm not aware of and then someone like you who's shedding light on this from the inside I think things are slowly but Surely turning I think the battleship is moving in

a different direction I really do I really think the whole country is moving in a different direction and I think that when we see the the way people are approaching gay writes now the way the just the way the world is just more sensitive about things some people are angry at it they saying everyone's over sensitive I think it's probably better to be over sensitive than it to be insensitive because over Sensitive can be corrected and people are like well people are you know there lives are being ruined because people are being over sensitive you

know there was a noble prizewinning doctor or a professor that um made a joke about women in science and he said they should probably have uh same-sex Labs because uh three things happen when women are in the labs he said either they fall in love with you or you fall in love with them or they cry when you criticize them And he was joking around I guess allegedly and he had a resign he had a resign for that for something like that you know they're say equality in science is more important like that that [

__ ] is curing cancer all right this guy's a Nobel prizewinning scientist and he says something something that's a little goofy but he doesn't have some history of Oppression he's not some terrible person who's it's this massive oversensitivity by people Where you can't even just you know say that's probably not a good thing to say and he you know can kind of correct it and you can kind of smooth it out because you understand the people talk off the top of their head this is not like a a a [ __ ] story wrote for

the New York Times where he made had a clear position on women in science and it became a real issue because he criticize people that might have gotten into science and done some real good work no This guy the guy's just talking you know and I think symptoms like that like these these issues that we face it's way better to have that than it is to have insensitivity I think the over sensitive things like it sucks that this guy got fired but or that he resigned but he shouldn't have and I I I blame the

institution I blame the people running for that that are so [ __ ] sensitive that they they and and so terrified that they're worried about any criticism Whatsoever that they reacted to it in this way and him he shouldn't have [ __ ] backed down from it either he should have talked about it and explained or maybe even apologized maybe even said it was an off-color joke or it was just I just think that that balance is is because we're moving in the right direction I really do I think I even though I've been a

victim of over Sensitivity I shouldn't say victim that's very grandos I it's it's it's Affected me or it's impacted me or I've felt it I've seen it rather I think it's better it's better to have all those [ __ ] crazy people running around looking at things to be offended about looking at uh you know examples of sexism or homophobia or racism it's it's better to to have people reaching too far than to not reach at all and I think because we're seeing all this stuff I think it's evidence that society as a whole and

our our culture in America is Tipping towards being more aware and I think that's a good thing I really do I'm I have a lot of hope you know a lot of people think that I'm like overly optimistic about the future of this country and and the human beings in general but I see plenty of evidence that people are aware and that they care and just all the people that are paying attention to your story and all these different protests and marches and all these different news stories when any Whenever we see these examples of

police brutality it's they're so highlighted now this is not swept under the rug at all and if anything the cops are [ __ ] thrown under the bus immediately I mean it's a it's a different world and I think there's going to be an adjustment period but I think ultimately when we look back at this time 10 20 years from now I think we're going to look at this as a shift as a shift in our culture that we didn't see In the 60s you know there there's when I think when the when Martin Luther

King was around and when there was a shift then there was most certainly an awareness a civil rights awareness but I think it's even bigger now I really do I think this is a great time to be a human being I I really think that we have the real potential to make some real change inside our lifetime and change that can give momentum to the future I think there's without question that you're Completely right uh they can't avoid it I mean we're we're technology has made us communicate we see everything we can't hide as much

anymore we just have to be human and recognize all of our flaws and everything will be fine with your doctor if we could have some empathy for his position because empathy is a two-way street then maybe you can work out a solution for understanding in in that ball game and that's what we're doing now is we're Sol we're working out The understanding and it's going to have this ugly period in policing for sure but we'll get through it and it's going to be better it's inevitable I don't think it's me it's going to be somebody

that comes behind me but it's going to it's going to work well I think you're a part of it I think we're all a part of it I think someone like you is uniquely qualified to be a part of it you know the fact that you actually or there on the street Arresting a dude who's wearing somebody else's pants I think it just shows you're uniquely qualified to talk about this and I think that there there's a real potential with this kind of dialogue and with uh people just being more more aware of it that

a young kid that might be like 16 17 years old right now that is about to go into the Marine and has the same idea that you had he has a leg up maybe he can learn from your experiences and maybe his comrades And maybe his his peers can also learn from what you're saying and your experiences and maybe someone like you one day becomes a commissioner and maybe that time while that's happening that that one commissioner starts listening to good politicians and and gets influenced by good leaders and doesn't have to start arresting people

just for drugs doesn't have to per just perpetrate the same stupid [ __ ] cycle that's been going on and on I mean is That too much to ask is that too unrealistic to hope that we can change things I mean I you can't you can't think that we're not going to improve if we're not going to improve we're going to stay stagnant as a culture well that's that's ridiculous that's shitty engineering that's non non-thinking that's are you are we saying that we're perfect or are we saying that it's futile are we saying that it

can't be fixed or are we saying that we're not Willing to try one of one of those is happening the majority is not willing to try yeah but you even I don't think I belong on the pedestal you're put me on maybe somebody else was cuz I I participate in all this that that maybe we can have people don't that's why it's on a pedestal I'm not putting you on a pedestal I'm just saying you're you're you're you're hope what you're doing this is hope you you influence that though with This like okay so you

have this philosophy where you were like it doesn't matter what you do just [ __ ] be nice just be nice and listening to you through these years that has invaded my mind as well so if we can just talk and start opening up as humans and be nice and be empathetic then we're going to work all of this out regardless Bernie Sanders might even be a good example of that with his message right now he's huge following right now and Like vote for this guy yeah I mean we're going to make changes it's like

if you're a progressive then you want to make changes if you're a conservative you want to stay in the past that's what these words mean it doesn't make any sense who would want to be conservative and stuck in the past the only person that's going to be stuck in a past is one with a Confederate flag that's collecting money off the backs of somebody else well just the definition Of conservative I think it's all [ __ ] up now conservative should be someone who's fiscally conservative that which someone who's prudent someone who makes good Financial

choices that's a good thing that's a smart thing that's someone with discipline that's I I support that 100 per. you know good financial decisions or that is a conservative thing you know when you start getting socially conservative that means you're white that's what it means You might as well say you're white you know or you're a black guy who likes hanging out with white people and being paid more than he's worth because you know that's what happens I mean it's we live in a weird world right now and I think Society is being redefined right

in front of our eyes I think when we look back at this time 100 years from now when people look back when we're dead they're going to look back and go God this a [ __ ] crazy time to be Alive that internet just [ __ ] threw a monkey wrench into the whole gears Clank you know I mean that's really what's happening this this ability to communicate just didn't exist before you being able to come on a show like this this never this wasn't supposed to happen no not at all if we if this

show was on the radio or something like that first of all we'd be interrupted by commercials and then second of all someone will probably tell us we can't Talk about these things or we can't talk about like the way we're talking you can't swear we've already been arrested for swearing you can get a [ __ ] fine of some insane amount I think it's like $250,000 for swearing on the radio for swearing like just saying get the [ __ ] out of here on the radio you can go to jail if you don't pay that

fine if you don't pay that quar million do fine The Vig to the government that they that's where Howard Stern came in man Howard Stern fought all that [ __ ] that's why that guy's always going to be a hero to me I don't give a [ __ ] what he says about podcasting or Ari shafir or any of that crazy [ __ ] that it wasn't for that guy that guy fought the fight and the the powers that be that have set this stupid thing up they didn't anticipate that a guy like you would

be able to go on The Young Turks later this afternoon and and say anything you want man and that Young Turks thing will be seen by a [ __ ] million people easy and that's that's hope man that's hope because what we're talking about where you listen to some of the things that I've said those things that I've said I've heard online you know I've read I've watched documentaries I've I've I'm expressing things that I've learned and we all learn from each other and we all the community that we create by finding like-minded people or

by saying things that resonate with people or by Influencing people in a positive way where it actually helps their mindset helps their life and they become thankful of that and then they spread the same kind of message and we spread it to each other and I have a guy like you want and you change the way I think about certain things and you influence like I'm I'm genuinely honored to have you on the show I'm genuinely I'm I I really admire what you've done and what you're saying and I think other people Will as well

and I think it's spreads it's like a good virus like it gets out there and this this wasn't available before something like this wasn't available and I think that's part of why we all got locked into this US versus them mentality we didn't have a voice that distinguishes or differentiates from the [ __ ] same [ __ ] corporate voice that we keep hearing over and over and over again that doesn't differentiate you don't hear any you Don't hear any we are all brothers and sisters on Fox News you don't hear that what do you

hear you hear crime statistics you know you hear Nancy Grace with two chains debating about marijuana I mean you you really that's what you hear you hear [ __ ] nonsense you don't hear any Soul you know no one's got a goddamn heart no one no one recognizes the fact that this is a temporary existence we're going through a temporary existence and there are so Many of us and there's Pockets that seem almost unmanageable because they've been [ __ ] over for hundreds of years and there's just a swarming chaos in these areas and they

just they're riding on momentum and they're riding on the momentum of decades and Decades of poverty and crime in a cycle of Despair and is going to be hard to fix that [ __ ] but it's critical and it's one of the most important aspects of our civilization if if we don't fix that our Civilization is nonsense our civilization is only as strong as the weakest links and it just makees sense to me and I've always said this the best way to strengthen America people want to talk about a strong America are you a patriot

you do you love America good less losers make less losers then you have a stronger America go to the [ __ ] neighborhoods that are [ __ ] go to the communities that are [ __ ] go to these deeply entrenched in crime areas and fix Them you fix them then you got winners you got instead of 10,000 people in jail you got 10,000 people that are starting small businesses you got 10,000 people that are venturing out into the world and trying to do good and influencing other people to do the same and spreading a

positive message and and influencing people with inspiration and then they other people see hey this guy became this I can do this too and then they do it too and then other people say That and you got a better country it's it's not that hard instead of being a [ __ ] vampire and arresting people for crack and pulling people over and doing the same goddamn [ __ ] that everybody's been doing for the last 100 years it's striking how much we do things similar one of the things we found when we were messing around

digging through files is we found an action plan uh and these action plans like so a big crime happens and you you the shift Commander will Draw up an action plan send it up what he's going to do to address this problem and this action plan was from the 1970s we found it in like 2010 W you found it we found it in a drawer and it was the exact same action plan as the other ship Commander was doing it was like the same the same Corners the same response the same plan so like for

40 years nobody's changed anything and you have the same Corners being the same problems with the same families and the doing the same Things and the police are doing the exact same goddamn thing in response wow it's it's unbelievable how we're doing this and that's what these talks have to get us to do is to do exactly what you're saying communicate lift up the country it doesn't make any sense that we would treat a medical problem like it's a criminal problem and put those people into a jail to drug addicts into a into a jail

cell doesn't make any sense what sorry what what what happens To the cop that's on the beat right now in Baltimore what happens to the cops that are listening to this right now what the [ __ ] can they do these guys have an incredibly hard time right now because like you're saying with bats he's not leading the agency properly the fop is doing some crazy things as well uh calling the the uprising lynch mobs going after that wanting to send their officers down the the Pike and doing all these things when we need Justice

we Need something the case needs to be heard in court for anybody to have any assemblance that this is going to be real and this is going to be just because in the past we know it's all been covered up so if we continue to cover up which is the problem that happened in Ferguson is the cover up the problem isn't the shooting the problem is the damn cover up that that that Prosecutor's a criminal he criminally covered up that indictment there's no Way around it that's what they did and no one seemed to care

so what did he do highlight what what happened so when you have an indictment the old saying is is you can indict a ham cheese sandwich because the the prosecutor goes up there and his job or her job is to select the the evidence that will get the charge so the way that system actually is is if there's there's four of us in the room right now if three of us think he did it and one doesn't we don't even listen to The one that does it that's how an indictment works and if you're not

a reliable witness you don't even come in for the indictment but in that case he brought in unreliable Witnesses brought in everybody to taint the whole thing when all he should have brought in was the case that okay so this guy was shot and he was found this this way and these Witnesses say that he put his hands up and you would have had an indictment and you would have had a trial and you would Have he would have I think that shooting was justified so Darren Wilson would have been exonerated exonerated and everything would

have been fine but we would at least heard the case the problem is is that the police walk away with nothing so it's like you shoot them oh no we're not going to indict it okay see you later good luck looks like everything was clear well we need to see more than that that's why when you see the indictment South Carolina there was No Uprising we we had a shooting in Baltimore just not too long ago where was a guy was Robin 7-Eleven I think and the officer came in and shot him there's some speculation

the guy wasn't even armed but he was robbing a store so nobody freaks out the problem is is when you have somebody unarmed with no clear crime and it's just okay that's what happened he was afraid well fear is not enough justification to shoot somebody But that's what the law says the law says that if you're in fear of your life as an officer you can pull that trigger that's preposterous you have to at least be some assemblance of containing your situation and not just being what it is now is they're afraid of everything so

everybody has a gun which you know that's an American problem but they feel like everybody is a threat and you're ingrained into this threat so they run around with fear and they shoot in a Heartbeat because they're so afraid and then the seem they just come behind and they cover it all up like nothing happened and that's when you get an uprising it's just when there's no justice that's what Marilyn Mosby did you know like okay did was there uprisings after she came out and said okay we're going to charge the officers no because it's

not that anybody's rushing the Judgment it's not that it's a Lynch Mob it's let this play out in Court I think the two lower officers are going to get off I don't think that they did anything particularly wrong they were following their Lieutenant they might have some things they might not be cops but they didn't do anything terribly wrong but you want to hear the case and you want to know what happened we have to know what happened just because a guy has a gun and we give him a badge and he has a GED

and he went to 8 months of training doesn't make him Above the world it doesn't make him a separate set of rules what you think that the Ferguson shooting was justified I can't go far as to say it's Justified I think the evidence would say that it it would be rule Justified I don't know because he struck the officer and he is at close range and it seems like he was trying to get his gun yeah I mean in that situation I think you give the benefit of Doubt to the officer but Why were there

so many people that disagreed what was the hands up and all that stuff who who knows did he have his hands up was that who knows but I think that's enough justification to find that out right and how would they find that out at least have the Witnesses on stand but it would just be questioning Witnesses it would just be eyewitness information sure sure but let's hear it you know maybe he gets out but it's exonerated and everything's fine but Let's hear it we need to hear just we have we know that we have a

history of officers unjustly shooting black males especially unarmed we know we have that so that that means we must have an extra level of scrutiny we have to and what is the situation in Cleveland with the kid the 12-year-old kid that had the that was at the schoolyard that that guy's being indicted on murder charges right last I knew he wasn't that judge suggested that he there was a judge that Said there was enough probable cause to Warrant the charging but somebody else actually has to do that charging I don't believe that's taken place see

that one doesn't make any [ __ ] all [ __ ] murder it was a murder it was Absolut there's no justification for that there's not been a single thing I've ever watched that that affected me more than watching those [ __ ] cops murder Tamir rice and then stand over that boy a 12-year-old boy as he was bleeding out And choking they stood there and they he's worried conjecture it looks like he's worried oh my God I'm in this situation what am I going to do as a 12-year-old boy [ __ ] chokes on

his own blood dying and he stands there stands there doing nothing until someone else comes over and finally helps that boy and he's not being indicted are we kidding me that's [ __ ] murder within 2 seconds it was less than like 1.6 seconds they Rush up on that kid there's No justification for any of them what's happening in Cleveland is absurd there's no doubt about it is Cleveland like Baltimore the same sort of cycle I I I have no reason to believe that Cleveland Baltimore Ferguson Atlanta any of those places are are different I

think we can take an officer there's something just happened in Philly just now before I walked in here uh video was released of Philly officers uh 12 Philly officers beating on somebody that was unarmed for Apparently riding a bike or something like that I have no I didn't get a chance to see but all these things seem to be the same so if you took an officer Out of Philly you can put him in Baltimore he's fine when we had Hurricane Katrina we took uh a lot maybe 20 officers from New Orleans and brought them

into the BPD and they they're not like they're like oh my God what are we doing it was the same same thing same [ __ ] same [ __ ] just get used different Report that's all so it's just ghettos um ghettos yes uh black ghettos to a separate a separate level black ghettos yeah it's mostly black GH it's low income period it's the power L the the voiceless period but I think that institutional racism that we have throughout our society it wasn't that long ago that we're having slaves and we're still arguing over the

Confederate flag and I I know you said something about no we're arguing about the Dukes Hazard think you're confused sir yeah the [ __ ] how about the fact that it flies over a state house until 2015 it's goddamn crazy fact this is uh the first year that someone stepped up and stopped that from happening and then people are freaking out it's about Heritage Southern Heritage imagine imagine a ger Nazi flag flying up I mean oh come on what did you say though about that flag come on I saw you say something what was it

oh I said about Daisy Duke I said the real flag was the the Daisy Dukes the shorts cuz that was a flag of empowerment there never been was an article of clothing well for females and for gay men slots and gay men that's there was never an article of clothing that that just clearly outlin that you're hungry for dick there's one that we've ever created and it's the daisy duke shorts nobody wears daisy duke shorts if you don't want dick if you're A dude and you're wearing daisy duke shorts you're hunting for dick and if

you're girl wearing daisy duke shorts you're hunting for dick and there was never like a flag they like they threw up a flag that let let people know they want some dick I I don't have an objection it's true right it's true that's the that's the real [ __ ] travesty what they should do is go over that [ __ ] show put the show back on the air godamn it go over that show with Some CGI put a goddamn American flag on the roof and let's be done with this everything back yeah how how

much would that cost they could do that [ __ ] if they can make the Hulk and the Avengers bounce through buildings and [ __ ] you look 20 yeah you can't [ __ ] fake a flag on the roof of a first of all the real crime is to paint that [ __ ] beautiful car that shitty color you you took a 69 Charger or 68 Charger whichever one was I think it was a 69 One of the most beautiful muscle cars ever created and you painted it like a goddamn Spanish hooker it's [

__ ] that's the real [ __ ] paint that [ __ ] thing orange with a stupid flag of a bunch of losers that's a loser Flag by the way yeah you heard me folks you lost treasonous [ __ ] yeah it's like raising a flag in another country anyway it well it's like raising a they wanted to win and they didn't win it's about economics it's about economics yeah if You don't pay people you make more money it's a that's an economic chice know he spits you know the South represents and that flag represented

a lot of things to people other than racism what they need is a new flag you need a new flag that represents the South alone and not a bunch of people that were fighting to keep racism you know Dan Carlin said that um they should add to the flag like maybe keep that flag and put a broken Chain on it that represents the the abolishment of slavery that like it keeps Southern Heritage but then it adds one thing to it I mean that might be a thing but they could come up with another [ __

] Flag a flag is just a symbol if you want a symbol of the South Texas has a [ __ ] beautiful flag Texas has a flag and the the the star of Texas and nobody ever thinks of it representing racism or represen it's just [ __ ] Texas the star of Texas is Just a star of Texas that's legit like if you wear a Texas Flag t-shirt on everybody knows well that's a guy who's a fan of Texas you know what I'm saying it doesn't have any connotation that you hate black people or you

want racism or you want slavery that's a that's a legit flag they need to come up with a goddamn better flag I prefer a world with no Flags a world with no Flags yeah hm okay what about the don't tread on me that's pretty slick I like that one Snake I don't know you can say no yeah I mean what do you say I mean everybody that's had it don't tread on me sign are you really you really scared of those people how about an eagle a big Bal eagle with a [ __ ] Talon

full of rockets got a rockets in one and then the other one a dick he's got a dick in one hand now we're representing everybody just talking [ __ ] I just think that uh yeah the world a world without Flags like ideally no ideology you know ideally no uh no borders ideally no nationalism no State pride just be proud that you're a human being in the human race but there's some cool [ __ ] about having differences there's some cool [ __ ] that you can go to New Mexico and it's different than going

to Michigan I like that I like variation I like people that are are happy that they live in Los Angeles they have pride stri their yeah I like it I've never been to the West Coast we were just driving around we went up the Pacific coast Coastal Highway today and the um the canyon I can't remember was called Malibu Canyon beauti one my bikes so bad I was hurting it's like where can I rent a motorcycle Mal can road is amazing it was unbelievable we've never seen anything like that but in the Northeast we have

water oh yeah yeah we'll steal water from Seattle they ain't going to do [ __ ] about it either what's up take that Water son give me that [ __ ] this is what I think if they could bring [ __ ] oil down from Alaska why can't they bring water all right can you hook a big tube up to one of those melting glaciers you steal all that [ __ ] water and we're good and then we irrigate the [ __ ] out of this [ __ ] and turn into a tropical rainforest just

giant sprinklers in the sky you know giant ones like 30,000 ft up just spraying come on man you can make a a Hyperloop that can get to San Francisco in 5 seconds like what Elon Musk is trying to do you can't put a sprinkler system in the sky you can't steal water out of the icebergs everybody's worried about global warming with the icebergs melt the Malibu's going to disappear [ __ ] it is we're going to put a big goddamn tube and suck all those icebergs and spray it all over the avocado fields that sounds

crazy but watch that be the Solution it is a solution it's why not if you can get oil from Saudi Arabia by millions and millions of gallons and tankers and bring it across the goddamn ocean to America you're telling me you can't take water from somewhere and bring it down here that's stupid of course they can the problem is can they get enough water because we use a lot of [ __ ] water there's a lot of golf courses here people like to golf a lot of white people and there's almonds Almonds apparently suck up

a lot of water and a lot of people have pools there's a lot of issues but I think they can be engineered you know the real issue is you know there's a lot of global warming talk but I think PE places have always turned you know there's always been like are I mean all you have to do is just look back to the Ice Age and you realize well there's not an Ice Age anymore so something happened there's some change well that's this we Don't live in this static place but we're so arrogant we figure

we feel like if we build a city we could stay you know this is it we're here now but if this becomes a Sahara you know there's go to the Sara desert what do you find you don't find a lot of [ __ ] people there's a reason there's nothing there you can't live off of it what you what are you going to eat man you going to eat your camel if you don't eat your camel there's not a lot to eat you know And that's just the reality of being a human being if we

live on this Earth we occasionally you have to move cuz the spot sucks now you know this spot is fantastic you you're this you're here for the first time but listen there's a reason why there's 30 million [ __ ] people stuffed into this area it's because it's a sweet spot but all it would take is one of those the The Rock style earthquakes from that new [ __ ] movie one real one which is happened Before they've had some giant ones in spots all over the world that we know of you know that human

beings have a record of that have just been just unbelievably devastating all we'd need is one of those just one and everybody would scatter like ants and then you go to Boulder Colorado be overrun with chicks from Santa Monica it'd be dudes on Aderall with [ __ ] Botox faces driving their Teslas around Boulder become it's a nice car it's fast too it's a good car it's beautiful um but you guys it's too cold Baltimore that's [ __ ] yeah we had a bad winner it's nothing I grew up in Boston yeah which worse way

wor beautiful too though uh oh that City i'ed it I it's all that was nice it's okay you can [ __ ] have it for five months a year yes that's true I went summertime so i' to talking my asset a bit summertime in Boston's amazing it's like um I'm going to Chicago uh at the end of the month and I'm [ __ ] psyched cuz Chicago and the summer is amazing you know why cuz people appreciate the fact that it's the summer summer in La is every day it could be 90 in January here

I mean it's happened many times right Jamie you experienced 90 yeah walking around your shorts flipflops t-shirt 90 Beautiful January convertible 75 today 75 it's nice July I know it's a nice day today it was 60 this morning when I woke up I Had to get up early 60 60 yeah it doesn't happen for us no right now it's brutally hot yeah well you guys get that swampy hot too nasty yeah that that East Coast hot is a different kind of hot like Miami you don't even know what hot is until you experience Miami in

August you might as well be in Africa you're in the goddamn jungle you know you want to hear a funny car chase story I want to hear all your funny car chase stories okay how many You got three okay so my first car chase is this this is how far after the guy having some other dude's pants on uh about a year a year so year in so I have a partner um usually don't have Partners in Baltimore I partner on this particular day really yeah you ride by yourself what mhm what is that to

save money uh I think more of an omni presence idea oh the more people more cops more cars uh it doesn't really work I think you ever a jerk off in your car no no try to S one on me there real quick just asking I would I get bored so I have this partner he looks like Sammy Davis Jr oh Jesus CH great great guy we would go to calls did you call him Sammy Davis Jr I mean maybe sometimes joking he was other people did he looked that back you're kind of a Sinatra

when he was younger oh go see Sinatra when he got AR nobody else thought of that hold On a second pull up the Sinatra's uh Sinatra's mug shot he was a tiny dude you know Sona only weigh like 125 lbs no no no not you you're you're handsome like Sona you're muscular and big I get it but be not tiny you're you're an average guy but I'm saying Sinatra was like 130 lbs he was like a tiny dude look at that come on dude you're a little better looking than him I'm be honest what is

uh where's his uh what They arrested him for because there was like a little card that had the uh there's a thing below it there was a I used to have it on my wall at home actually it's not that one but uh he was arrested and it had his height and weight what for carrying on with a married woman yeah yeah it was called seduction that's what he got arrested for but that's not the there's actual a real piece of paper from the arrest that you can uh you could see They had it uh

like handwritten and everything what he was arrested for see if we can find it but it had his uh his height and weight and I I'm pretty sure he's 130 lbs and he was like 5'6 or 5'7 he's like a tiny little dude which I never thought I thought you know Frank Sina would be like is just larger than life you know like Tom Cruz kind of thing no I think Tom Cruz is probably not as short as everybody says yeah he might be a little shorter like 5'7 maybe But everybody says he's like 5'2

but people are just mean Kareem my partner he was about 5'2 53 little Samy Davis J Jesus Christ and he's a cop what is he for punishment good yeah so good cuz he Blended in like nobody noticed him oh right and when he was yeah no one's scared of a 52 black guy right we would go to places and he would be the nicest cop I mean he was like like what you think a cop is that was him he was so nice so courteous and I'd show up Behind him and like sit down shut

the [ __ ] up oh you're bad cop he would get the complaint I wouldn't it was it was unbelievably hilarious I don't know why it was just a running joke with us and he I can't throw that conjecture out there but most first time I would have thought of that I thought it just they didn't like him or they liked me I don't know I never thought of it as being a racial thing so we're going down the road and we type a tag in a car and it Comes up Boop stolen car oh

[ __ ] dude [ __ ] stolen car what we going to do like why would you be whispering I don't know but you start to panic and I'm like all right [ __ ] it let's just get out and I'll just yank him out of the car real quick cuz we're stuck in traffic right so go out as soon as I jump out of the car he looks over at me the driver of the car and he slams down his is lock door lock I'm like [ __ ] so I try to rip the

door open and I can't do it so for Some reason instinctually I pull out my gun and I'm like get out of the car and he's like no [ __ ] you and it starts to turn green and he's getting ready to go so I take my gun and I hit it against the window the window doesn't break my gun does and the rounds go flying on the ground scattering out and this is like noon and so everybody sees me doing this like a jackass what kind of gun a Glock 20 plastic yeah plastic gun

why' you hit a [ __ ] window I don't [ __ ] know I Wasn't thinking so so instinctually luckily I reload right and he takes off we run back into the car and we're not going anywhere I'm like Karem what the [ __ ] let's go and he's like I can't find the keys I can't find the keys no so he gets the key we take off we go down the road what kind of car do you drive it was a that was a Crown Vic at the time okay [ __ ] box we

cops love Crown Vick yeah but they're stupid V in them D big [ __ ] goofy car [ __ ] better than front-wheel drive Tauruses and [ __ ] they try to give us front wheeel drive Taurus so we go down the road the guy makes a turn we lose him but we kind of know his area where he is and I see a guy that's running he had a blue bandana on it was black guy white T-shirt so I see a guy going down the alley blue bandanna white T-shirt like [ __ ] Kareem

get out so he gets out and he's coming from the guy behind I circle around with the car and come up And I Come Around the Corner that guy's looking at me and I'm like get on the ground and he starts getting on the ground and I'm looking at him I'm like [ __ ] this is this is not the same guy so I'm watching him and cream's coming up behind him and he's like coming hard I'm like no no no no no no no no no no no just as he's getting ready to hit

him and he pulls back and he's get ready to slam him to the ground like this is not him so we leave him go we run and we we Actually find the car so the guy bowed out he left his cell phone in the car so we picked up the cell phone and we called the most recent number and a girl answered and we were like hey you know I'm so and so I found this phone on the side of the road do you know who it belongs to I try to get it back to

but she's like oh yeah it's so and so pull him up in the in the computer and that was who had the car so oh my God what a dumb [ __ ] I'd be so mad at her i' be Like what the [ __ ] did you tell him oh my God you told him my [ __ ] name oh my God it's all in the report and everything oh that's hilarious did you get the guy somebody else did so we had the warrant and somebody else ended up catching him that's hilarious that was

your first car chase first car chase why don't they give you guys like Mustangs or something fast o I think that would be a bad idea why you car chasing very responsible is that what it is um the Law Al would I train to drive like that uh the law what wait a minute hold the [ __ ] on they don't train you how to drive not high speed no what no they let you drive highspeed chases they don't train you to drive you're breaking the rules to do a highs speed chase in Baltimore you

can't do more than 10 miles an hour over the in Maryland you can't do more than 10 miles hour over the speed limit according to the to the rules so the law says you can do it but The rules of the agency say you can only do 10 mph over so every cop that pulls you over and you're doing more than 10 miles per hour over the speed Lim and he had to violate general orders to even pull you over what that's the rules I didn't make them okay so the the department lets you do

highspeed chases they they don't like it no but so who lets you do it some you said you do it until someone tells you no okay but they don't no one teaches You how to drive we go to a course and they kind of do it but the standards are incredibly low and I you don't go very fast so the standards for driving are they more or less stringent in the standards for self-defense I don't think there's a standard in either um so that is so [ __ ] crazy right if you if you couldn't

defend yourself going in you're not going to be able to defend yourself coming out if You couldn't drive going in you're not going to drive coming out if you couldn't shoot going in you're not going to shoot coming out one of the scariest things is is cops ability to fire a weapon they're terrible they're terrible so um I would estimate that maybe you have to accurate or anything no no it's it's it's absurd like they can't shoot so like when you hear somebody like why didn't you shoot him in the knee for one you you

can't do that that's that's a Silly idea but why can't you okay so if I'm shooting for one I'm shooting at your knee I'm shooting down so I'm liable to Ricochet if cuz I'm going to miss right you're going to be a moving Target you know how hard it is to shoot an animal so imagine shooting a human in such a tiny area that's trying right you can't do it it's it's a silly idea that's why you shoot Center Mass um people criticize that but it's really the only practical way to do it uh but

Shoot animals too yeah very rarely shoot imagine that even if you was standing there imagine trying to take out a kneecap of a boar sitting there that's that's ridiculous so so hopefully one day we can all dispell that rumor about shooting a weapon out like somebody be like why don't you shoot the knife out of his hand like are you kidding me that's impossible that's hilarious but they they don't shoot they couldn't shoot a person let alone a knee right Like the standard the minimum score is like a 70 and it's a silhouette Target like

the minimum score meaning 70% 70% on on a silhouette Target you're no okay so you go you have to hit the whole silhouette right from the three to the five to the seven to the 15 I can shoot that whole course at the 15 with my eyes closing past it right 15 yards is that what it is so 15 yards with a handgun hitting Center Mass on a Target all you have to do is just hit the target and You can pass the course by doing everything from the three to five and I think think

the seven could be how big is this target it's it's a human silhouette so I mean it's a full silhouette down to the to a waist up okay so you're dealing with like a 2 and 1/2t 3ot Target yeah it's it's almost impossible to miss and and all you have to do is get 70% in you pass yeah so you miss 30% at 15 yards a giant [ __ ] Target we're Not even talking about 15 yards we're talking about I mean some of these are from three wait a minute so you start from the

three you do a lot of and they get hold the [ __ ] on 70% right so you can actually qualify before you shooting a person I know so this isn't even adrenaline it's not even crazy no this is ideal situation ideal circumstances oh so it's all it should be 100% I know 100 or they kill you they Should kill you take you a back yeah 100 maybe get a different try I've had 98 from time to time they shouldn't be there it's it's staggering people don't understand what we're talking about when you say the

is impossible it is completely impossible especially with the amount of training that that they have oh my God I don't understand how they don't train you how to do that they don't train you how to firearm use Firearms correctly no nobody accuracy They train you how to breathe while you're shooting they they tell you all these things but they don't they don't have time so the instructors they know what they're doing but they don't have time to to take somebody that has no idea what the hell they're doing or what's even worse is somebody has

bad habits and break those habits so they can be a decent shooter it's it's it's there's no time for it and it's not going to happen there's no standard so If they don't pass they just keep shooting them and shooting and shooting and shooting until you pass so you just keep keep doing it or you learn you know no there's no learning I mean they and you only do it once a year what what wait a minute prti what the [ __ ] are you talking about no practice once a year no no yes oh

my God right that's what I'm saying I couldn't do this job without the Marine Corps oh my God so the only reason I'm I was Any good that but how many how many guys were in the service that you you worked with um uh maybe 20% so 80% have no experience hit the broads side of a barn oh my God so these people are in this situation where they have these expectations and that's why they feel so cornered so they're actually feeling like they're being some is judging them and it's not so much that they're

Judging them they're judging the the ineptitude to do the job it's a will phoh movie you could do it that's what it feels like that's why I say yeah say about the banter I mean that's really it's it seems that way a lot God damn it I can't believe that why don't I know that I should have known that I gotta get John McCarthy on he's the next guest you know Big John McCarthy he's got I got to get him on soon he got to tell he's got some great Stories about pulling over Eddie Murphy

Oh no I'm an Eddie Murphy fan I will only speak with him about him with respect and Charlie Murphy anyway um so no self-defense training what is there is just pointless you don't have to have like a certain degree of proficiency in hand toam combat no they do like like wrist locks and Carries stuff like that butocks yeah these are things that you know in a real Scenario we can't do so you got to be a bad [ __ ] drill you can do a drill and put me to the ground with my wrist but

in real life you're never getting my wrist yeah it's just not going to happen if I'm fighting for my life or I'm trying to get away it's just not going to happen so the things we do just are impractical well Steven Sagal could get you to the ground if you got to hold your wrist have you ever seen him demonstrate you see the most recent One in Russia I'm afraid to flipped a bunch of people around his hair didn't move once serious that hair helmet he's got is he still nicely overweight oh yeah he's beautiful

beautiful [ __ ] machine of hand to hand combat watch this take a look at this I like the doag sweat that sweet doag look at this see this is what you guys need to learn this kind of [ __ ] why can't you do that this is the kind of stuff they do and they don't factor in the fact that their Suspect is going to hook you in the face with that empty left hand but wait a minute look how this guy can't do anything I know it's amazing it's almost like he practiced this

before to be the victim in this situation dude you got no man I'm telling you you got to get Steven sigal to teach everybody because look at the way he just throws everybody around they have no chance look he doesn't even move dude learn this why can't you just have Him isn't he a cop I thought he was too like a voluntary one yeah no he was a real cop remember in Louisiana remember he was talking like he was black if you keep talking about this somebody's I think he's transracial I think he's transracial did

you ever hear him talk no no you're saying this now but then there's going to be some agency that does that and thought it was a good idea now it's all your fault they should look at this this Is beautiful if you could do this you could kick anyone's ass they don't even let him in the UFC cuz he's too deadly we've had discussions we've had behind closed door meetings or whether or not we should allow Steven Sagal to fight and everyone says no he's too deadly take Conor out and they need him for that

Conor's too small he'd be in a different weight class but Cain Velasquez would be [ __ ] Junior do Santos what's he going to do to that huh What are you going to do over Doom if Steven Seagal gets a hold of your wrist huh I haven't heard you tax wrists that's a very vulnerable spot you know Ow like pull your hand back so now the question is why isn't Joe Rogan doing it why don't I fight yeah why don't you teach no why don't you teach the cops well I don't think I'm qualified because

I've never been in an armed situation with people shooting guns I've never learned how to disarm Anybody hand in hand we don't need disarm we don't do disarm well if I could you know I could give my opinions about some [ __ ] but you should bring in legit striking coaches that teach people all the time and then legit Jiu-Jitsu coaches well I I think Jiu-Jitsu would be your your route because it's more about control than depends hurting well yes but no sometimes you got to hit people like there's sometime the idea of only defending

Yourself by grappling I Think mixed martial arts is the best way to learn self-defense and uh I mean I'm essentially a mixed martial artist I started out as a striker and then when I got older when got into the UFC that's when I really learned grappling but uh I think if I had to choose one martial art that I would teach someone to defend thems it would definitely be Jiu-Jitsu but as far as what I would teach police officers you got to understand striking because if you don't understand striking And a guy can keep you

off him and punch you in the face you don't know how to deal with it you got to understand the way he's moving like if a guy if a guy is going to jab you there's a certain stance if a guy's going to throw a right hand there's tells if you don't know those tells you're just going to get Molly whopped you're just going to get cracked I think you have to understand at least understand striking and you the only way to understand striking is a Spar you have to do some sparring you have to

you have to definitely learn the mechanics of striking but you also have to understand the distance you have to understand how when a guy can hit you when he can hit you even if it's just defensive even if you don't have any intention whatsoever hitting somebody just knowing how to get the [ __ ] out of the way knowing how to cover yourself up knowing how to protect yourself there's a lot of people out there that are Grapplers that would be [ __ ] if someone punched him in the face I think you're on to

something with that actually like uh the defensive method we're not going to really teach cops to to strike you're just not going to get anywhere best way yeah you're you're right to the like the the getaway you might actually be on something there that that could be that's something we probably should be doing because what we do is we fear things so remember we fear That that guy can hit us we fear that so we should have an understanding of whether he or she would actually be capable at that range or capable in this particular

situation Judo is good for cops too because people most of the time are wearing clothes and like if you ever fought Ronnie Ronda Rousey and you were wearing a [ __ ] like a like a winter coat that [ __ ] would [ __ ] you up you're going flying you're landing on your head Carl perisian gets a hold of you and you Got like a leather jacket on that [ __ ] is going to throw you and hit you with the Earth that's what it's like when someone slams you they're taking the Earth and

hitting you with it boom they're hitting you with a giant immobile [ __ ] 20 4,000 Mile in a c circumference ball that's what they're doing it the Earth doesn't give someone slams you in the concrete they're literally hitting you with the Earth and I think if a judo person gets a hold of You some Jimmy Pedro character gets a hold of you and you have a winter jacket on you're a [ __ ] Ville you know that's a I think Judo would be a very important thing to learn wrestling very important to learn too

because if you can hold someone down you keep someone down you can control someone cuz I've seen situations where cops get flipped you know they're holding someone down in some sort of a arrest video and they just have no idea how to control Someone's body they have no idea where to place their weight they have no idea like what how a person would move like a good Jiu-Jitsu guy gets a hold of you and puts you ins side control you don't have any Jiu-Jitsu training you're not getting up this just it you're stuck you might

be like really physically strong you might be able to push him a little bit but he's going to grab a hold of you again and repeat the process that's what we saw in UFC 1 when hoist Gracie was Fighting chemo what do we see we saw this [ __ ] enormous steroid it up dude it's way stronger than hoist Gracie and he just chaos but eventually Hoy got him and why did he get him he got him because he understands the technique and he understands how to Grapple I think that from one if you only

had one I would say Brazilian jiu-jitsu but if I was going to teach something to Cops I would definitely teach them striking the last thing you want to do is be someone Who doesn't know how to strike and you get punched in the face and you're you're seeing Stars your eyes are watery your legs are buckled and you don't know what the [ __ ] to do cuz you never been there before someone who knows what to do someone who's been there before has been popped in the face before you got to go uhoh all

right got to keep my hands up got to move got to move got to move you know you'll instinctively have like a path that you'll go to to Preserve yourself the the scariest thing in the world is watching someone in a street fight and you know they don't know how to fight and they just their their neck is up in the air and they're flailing fists and you know it's coming you know you know it's coming we've all seen videos you can go online and watch guy gets ko'ed in street fight and there's a a

million videos of that I just can't believe that they don't force you guys to train first of all in Firearms on a regular basis I would I would thought that' be a weekly thing I really thought that there was like a weekly thing that you guys had to do you know the physical standards as well yeah I've seen a lot of fats there there's not a physical standard whatsoever well how about chicks I know no standards they don't have to have uh they they don't have to at least be able to like lift their body

weight up or something or do a chin up or something like that You get through the academy and you're finished what do you have to do to get through the academy whatever it is it's pathetic and easy [ __ ] that seems weird it is weird uh in in Baltimore they had an issue with a fire cadet who ended up dying in training because they they just didn't maintain the physical standards they needed to make now why is that is it hard to get people to join the police force so you have to lower the

physical standards That's one reason why the job is impossible they're Society doesn't seem to be willing okay so at this point in time not to sound uh too arrogant too late too late okay so so may as well go for it I would be the Prototype okay I have a master's degree I'm confident I came from the from the military uh if you go through my training record you'll see it it's all there I would be the Prototype I'm what you're looking for but I still you're not willing to pay me What it would take

to get somebody like me normally to do it so so if you right now if if I went to a police department they would be offering me $42,000 a year really I mean you don't think I'm going to take a $42,000 a year job do you at this point in time it's not going to happen so so they're not investing in those officers I really think in in most areas where like in Baltimore you have 3,000 officers I really think you could do your job with a thousand so so you Would pay those guys you

get those guys and You' get the guys with the education and girls and and have those standards and I really think that one really really good cop can do the job of the you know four or five of what we have now how much harder is it to be a woman and be a cop incredibly hard I would imagine be really hard to get people's respect some of them were so freaking good though um so so that's the weird line you tow they do seem to make better Detectives um as a general rule they they

they have an advantage in a lot of things I think they're more empathetic you know which is one of my big pushes they're they're they're more considerate of others when when it comes to a lot and it's harder for them with fighting but I've seen some of them hold their own just fine now the hardest one was actually a flamboyantly gay cop that I know he had the hardest time and I love that guy had a Flamboyantly gay cop I love him so much how gay was he very he's the queen that's how he refers

he calls himself the queen he's the queen of the northern that's beautiful that's what we need she a [ __ ] Army of roed up gay cops and he's he would fight all the time you could go to battle with that dude any day and you could trust that he would have your back you could follow him day and night cuz he was tried constantly wow and he became he was always good Love that dude awesome cop to work with but he was he constantly lived in a different world than I did I was I

maybe I fell into that Medium frame where like I'm not too big to try and I'm not too small to try so I kind of got away with a lot she was tried all the time because he's flamboyantly gay yeah so did he' be like license and registration he was he has the voice so he really say that when he pulled people over and stuff oh yeah where you going yeah he Had a purse for a while that he he had a purse yeah I mean think about think about that though I love it could

you do it what do I have a Pur think about the Cur think think that's true I actually no I don't know maybe because you gave it to me I think I doar but I thought about that in the airport like you say it's like it would be so much easier perfect people are just they scared of not getting laid that's why they know How it they're scared of the fashion stigma attached to it it's [ __ ] maybe it's what it is I wear one of those [ __ ] everywhere people meet me and

they go dude you really wearing a fanny pack I'm like that's right [ __ ] that shit's real as [ __ ] why is that a why is that a problem but if I wear a backpack what I'm saying is that same confidence that you have was the confidence that he had that's cuz I'm married I'm not trying to get Laid it was admirable if I was struggling to try to get laid I was like man it was like [ __ ] hit or miss it was just how to be dressed perfectly you know that's

why dudes wear cologne and [ __ ] like that and designer shoes why cuz they're [ __ ] trying to tip the scales in their favor they're not confident in their personality and their accomplishments and how they come off as as a human being they got you got to wear the right clothes and the right Style and that fanny pack could [ __ ] sink your battleship damn it I had her she could have been the one could married and had kids that [ __ ] stupid panny fanny pack I [ __ ] my chances

I don't know if that's why I think you've got enough game you do it with a fanny pack but that's what I think I think if if a girl doesn't want to have sex with you or doesn't want to date you because you have a fanny pack you don't want her in your life she's Too much work that's too much work or you don't know how to make fun of yourself you can't even mock the fact you're wearing a fanny pack and then explain yourself make a good joke she's like why are you wearing a

fanny pack stupid you're like exactly anyway he wore a purse yeah he would keep his kind like glittery or anything if he had it it would have been stalish I assure you it wasn't it wasn't no chump [ __ ] I promise so um what what Was it like for him I mean I think it was incredibly challenging for him uh but they like they wouldn't let him arrest them like they would fight like like no way I understand I'm going to jail but not from him is he still on a job yeah he's awesome

too good for him what's his name I don't no just give his full his first name no no I just want to give a shout out to him Q you can call him q q q you keep it sexy keep it sexy Q so harder for him than women yeah I think so think it's incredibly hard for him and so you're saying that women make better detectives what what else besides empathy do they have like intuition it's better I mean I can't say but they they they do seem to fulfill those roles very well yeah

so there's a role for females in policing even if you you're thinking of the physical aspects uh there there is a like a need right so how you balance That I I can't say that would require a little more Nuance but definitely have their role is there anything else you want to say before we get out of here because I you got a bunch of notes there um it's just that one of the big things that we see is everybody keeps fighting against the black lives matter thing and and it's like we're not understanding what

it is it's not that we come out with things all lives matter somebody wear a shirt All lives matter no no [ __ ] we understand all lives matter that's the whole point of everything we do right and they come out and they say police lives matter no [ __ ] I don't know A Life That's mattered more than a police life I don't know if a single cop that's been killed where the killer wasn't caught which is embarrassing for our profession why do we always catch the ones that hurt our own maybe we're not

trying hard enough in the other ones and we go Around and we say these things but the police everyone comes to their aid when something happens to them but when we somebody says black lives matter we just oh oh oh but what they're all they're saying is that in our society black lives haven't mattered as much as the other lives and that's clear when you see something like Tam or rice because you know that doesn't happen to one of your kids there's not a shot in hell that that happens to my daughter or Yours no

way whether they're are 12-year-old sit with a BB gun in the middle of your street in front of your house house that is not going to happen because they're going to say oh well we're going to handle that situation we're going to approach her we're going to see what's really going on and they're not going to be a hero because a hero is the person that goes up to Tamir rice and approaches and tries to figure it out risk getting shot because he Wants to make sure he's doing the right thing when you take away

a life or take away somebody's Freedom well you don't even have to go up to him how about you just say from the comfort of your car put down the gun sure sure and from far away you figure it out because but we go and we we we treat black lives like they don't matter and when you are putting that oh yeah all lives matter shirt on or oh yeah police lives matter on you're proving that police lives don't that That black lives aren't mattering as much to you otherwise you would just [ __ ]

say yes they do right so they're not saying that white lives don't matter they're not saying Alles matter yeah bring it up bring it up to everyone else that's it just equality it's it's not it's not a diss on anybody else it's we have this problem and we have this problem mhm recognize it let's fix it let's when when I say that I want to team up with The ray so if I took a a police commissioner job the first thing I would do is say dur please come join me please because I need you

I need him he's a community leader the idea that we don't integrate people like him into our system is Ridiculousness he is a leader of the black community I need him if I'm going to run a police agency and we should not be turning those kind of people away and ask and making like they're they're some kind of instigators From out of town is what they would call dur instigator that's what they call them yeah out of town instigator that he was coming to Baltimore and he's making money and he's doing all this and it's

not all what he's doing they think he's making money doing all this and he's simply not neither am I we came out here on our own our own dime with the help of we you know who's making money CNN yeah Fox News anybody Broadcasting it where they're going to get advertising dollars and that's something that's going to get a lot of people watching wow our ratings were up I went down to where Freddy gray was the incident happened and and where the uprising was the very next day you couldn't have told me that there was

a difference between that day and two weeks ago the problem is that no one gave a [ __ ] about Gilmore Homes two weeks ago but when it g on the news and You saw the CVS burning and they cycled it over and over and over again it was one goddamn building that was burning you just kept seeing it over and over after the fire department had already put it out violence in Baltimore violence in Baltimore the riots and way they talk that [ __ ] news voice you're you're on it exactly and we do

that and then we we look at that community and we're like oh my God why would they do that well nothing ever happens without An without an uprising whatever great civil rights movement or great progress have we ever made without some kind of Uprising how about the United States of America yeah this came about because we got away from the [ __ ] British I mean that's literally how this got started it was an uprising Boston Tea Party it's a goddamn Uprising and does anybody sit there and say oh my God why do they just

throw their own tea into the water that's Ridiculousness but but they don't Hesitate to say why are they burning that CVS down that's the only symbolism of corporate America that they even have there because they don't have a grocery store like you and I do they don't have anything that we think of as as as normality they live in a in a area that has food deserts that doesn't have good schools where the kids ride MTA buses to go to school where life is and and their their parents get their father gets locked up because

he has that DME bag And he perpetuated the cycle but yet Society keeps telling them oh well pick yourself up by your bootstraps they don't [ __ ] have bootstraps because you took them away yourself up by your boobs jats is such a shitty argument it's not like everybody starts in the same spot you know it's not like we're all playing Monopoly and we all start from the same spot it's stupid that's such a terrible terrible mentality that people have and it's so short ited and So dismissive pull yourself up up by your bootstraps it's

just so dumb it's such a short and that's a short-sighted conservative argument that is a conservative argument it's just such a dumb one well the last thing I want to say too is that conservatives and right-wing people are the ones that are going to argue with me the most but if we don't do what I'm saying then they're going to lose their guns and their argument that they Want to have because if we can't reel in police and they're always afraid that everyone has a gun and we have to do this war then that means

we can't live in a society that's armed and we can't police it properly when you just said that a bunch of people just what the [ __ ] lose my guns right what' you say first you take my flag you take my [ __ ] gun not nope if you want to keep your gun like Charlton hon said yeah you can primy my cold dead Hands from it if you want my gun well if you want to keep your guns then we need to have reform in policing I don't like this kind of language cuz

people are going to keep their guns they're keeping their [ __ ] guns yeah well then let's reform policing I think that's a great idea I don't think you need to bring guns into this yeah guns didn't do anything to anybody where are the cops killing people people people are doing it people kill people people Are killing people guns are just sitting there looking beautiful how many gun deaths happened in England ah [ __ ] English bunch of [ __ ] scared to pull a trigger so the argument though that's so funny imagine he turns

out they all had guns like I can't quite do it I thinking about shooting him just doesn't seem right seem right wouldn't be proper yeah no I listen I think you're saying some awesome things we do have to Wrap this up but uh I really I really appreciate you coming on and I think you uh you express yourself very well and uh I think that you're you're a very unique person your perspective is very unique the fact that you have so much experience and you're you're you're saying all the right things so thank you very

much I really really appreciate it um you could catch him on Twitter Michael a Wood Jr m i c h a e l a wood w o d Jr um last thing anything else good Thanks for having me this has been great no this is not about me this is about the point where's the best place for people to reach you Twitter just Twitter this is not about me this is about the message I I appreciate that very much Michael Wood Jr ladies and gentlemen a bad [ __ ] you have been schooled see you

guys soon [Music]