The 2024 Elections: What Happened and What’s Next? | DealBook Summit 2024

Hi everyone and welcome to uh our dealbook Summit task force on the 2024 elections what happened and what is next uh the 2024 election cycle is among the most consequential elections of Our Generation with starkly different views for the nation having been offered by the Trump and Harris campaigns and the aftermath leaves us with some critical questions that we are going to talk about today uh I want to start by Introducing this panel of uh esteemed experts and people who have worked on the recent election Sarah Longwell uh publisher of the bull workk uh Major

Garrett the chief Washington correspondent at CBS News Jason Miller who was a senior adviser to Donald Trump Kevin McCarthy the former speaker of the US House of Representatives Anita Dunn former senior adviser to President Biden Alexis Miguel Johnson the CEO of Planned Parenthood van Jones CEO of dream Machine and a CNN host and author Jonathan Carl the chief Washington correspondent at ABC News news and Margaret Hoover the host of firing line with Margaret Hoover on PBS uh this is an exceptionally large group of people and we have uh uh we have 90 minutes for people

to get in their expertise and I would like this to actually be a conversation so if any of you want to jump in and add a thought at any time as we talk or jump off of Something someone else said please do just give me a minute to introduce you so that people listening know who you are when they're not watching um and I'll I'll just take a moment to read introduce at that point and let's get started with uh the person to my left Anita D um given the breaking news of the last few

days my first question is to you uh President Biden for months said he was not going to Pardon his son Hunter he did so on Sunday and did so With a sweeping pardon whose language tracked in modern times only with President Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon why did it cover such an expansive time period and how long has President Biden actually been considering it well thank you for such an easy question to start the morning and I can only say that I don't speak for President Biden any longer and was not party to the conversations

that were held about this but but let me just start by saying that I do not believe and I don't think most people believe that Hunter Biden should go to jail um and that you know um he had a serious addiction that he broke the law that he has pled guilty to that that he has been held accountable and has actually been public Al pilled in a way that very few people who commit these crimes have ever been pillared so he has paid a certain price he's also someone who has turned his life around who

has been sober now since 2019 who Has a young child and is actually going to be a grandfather sometime next year and had this pardon been done at the end of the term in the context of compassion the way many pardons will be done I am sure many commutations will be done I think would have been a different story so I will say I absolutely agree with the president's decision here um I do not agree with the way it was done I don't agree with the timing and I don't agree frankly with the attack on

their Judicial System you say a little bit more about that in terms of the attack on the judicial system because that was what was most striking to people who criticize this pardon I not not just the point you just made about the timing but the specific attack after months of saying that he would respect the judicial process so I think the president's statement has to be taken at its face value and clearly like everybody else in The world he has the prerogative of changing his mind um and that is indeed what he kind of said

he did there I think that you know as a you know from a Democratic party perspective from a democratic perspective as we were in the midst of the president-elect rolling out his nominees and in particular in the middle of a cash Patel weekend kind of throwing this into the middle of it was exceptionally poor timing and that the argument is one that I think many Observers are concerned about a president who ran to Res restore the rule of law who has upheld the rule of law who has really defended the rule of law kind of

saying well maybe not right now so you know Maggie as I say I agree with the decision to pardon I absolutely think that Hunter deserves a pardon here but I disagreed on the timing the argument and sort of the rationale was this pardon discussed while you were still in the white house or was this all New information for people after the fact I was never um part of any pardon discussion when I was at the White House beyond the question of what do we tell the Press if they ask about this and there was a

one-word response right which was no um and I think if you read the news reports and the reporting around this it's very clear that the um that the White House was really not part of this process it was a process that was done very much internally with the Family and with the defense lawyers so so that a different issue to Jason Miller uh do you expect now that uh president Trump president-elect trump will go ahead and pardon January 6th arrestes and and detainees as he has suggested he would and is he going to point to

this pardon as why well good morning everybody good morning thank you for being here right yeah thank you for being here to uh join me in celebrating president Trump's Victory so it's good To see all of you again um but going right at that I think what you heard with that answer is a big part of the reason why president Trump won I think people are sick and tired of the way the justice system has been politicized under Joe Biden and KLA Harris when you go back and look at the polling in this race which

I think this is a big deal when you talk about who's the bigger threat to democracy a lot of people said that was Joe Biden kamla Harris because They saw what happened the way that everything from the doj the FBI was turned on its head and used to attack a political opponent so obviously you think that the hunter pardon is pretty ridiculous um but it I don't think anyone's actually surprised by it uh now to your Dr question Magie regarding the uh j6 Prisoners the president has said over and over and he's even said this

since the election those will be looked at on a Case by case basis and I think Also when we talk about who's going to be doing that I think Pam Bondi is a very serious player coming to take over the doj I think it's going to be definitely a change in tone and focus that we saw from mer Garland uh where the entire thing was politicized so I'm glad to get the politics out of it let's go through and make sure that everybody is treated equally and that's where we go I just want to stay

on that for a second two things that you just said um President Biden's justice department was politically weaponized against his own son that's that's been an argument that has been confusing and I'm just hoping you can explain what that means number one but number two uh just one sec president Trump has talked about retribution and he's talked pretty openly about investigations into people who investigated him so how is that different and and I'm genuinely asking and hoping you can answer yeah well Taking those in reverse order the president said very clearly his only retribution or

Revenge will be success and that's what it's going to be that's on day one he's going to secure the Border going to drill baby drill he's laid out a bunch of those the green new deal it's on its way out but to the the doj and the very clear weaponization of the doj against President Trump against a political opponent we've never seen anything like this in history we saw the First four years with President Trump there were no attacks there was no going after Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton or his other political opponents but we

did see that under Joe Biden it's going to be uh in the second Trump term be just like I was in the first where Justice will apply equ equally to everyone just want to say we've been joined by kellyanne Conway who was Trump's 2016 campaign manager um and remains a a political consultant um van Jones just Sticking with uh sorry I need to go ahead I'm sorry Maggie can I just jump for one second I need done you know I think many things have been said about Meritt Garland and people have been criticizing him from

both sides um you know judge Garland um he was a judge before but I think the one thing that people really would not say about Merrick Garland is that he has been a political attorney general the only person who's been convicted by this Justice department who had a special counsel was the president's son the president of the United States and Jason I just have to say that I think that that when you look at when you look at this um attorney general this department of justice that of all the things you can say about it

the one thing you really cannot say is that it operated as a political arm of the White House I can attest to that respectfully Jason Miller responded yeah Nita did you miss the Last four years did you miss the illegal raid on marago no I know that's what I'm saying I mean the illegal raid on marago that's not what the American people think even if you go to the poll and not Republican or Democrat I I think it was maybe three months ago Independents believe the greatest threat to democracy was Joe Biden getting reelected and

that was Independence not Republican Or democrats so what you say you can believe but that's not what the American Public believes there's a difference between what the American people think and what's true so the idea I don't know why uh I don't know what we are uh why the defense of meric Garland sure Donald Trump lied about an election being stolen and then sicked a mob on the capital and it's funny that you roll your eyes at this Kevin because you're the one who went down and resurrected him you want to know what happened just

now in the 2024 election is we elected The most dangerous criminal uh human being corrupt human being that America has ever elected and Kevin you helped him you're the one who went and got him after after you're welcome yeah sure thank you okay um and and in doing so and in doing so uh you enabled this and so Joe B the idea that Joe Biden's justice department is the problem here as opposed to Donald Trump and the fact that he tried to overturn an election and sick people on the capital uh is I Don't know

if people let you get away with that in rooms all the time but you should never be allowed to get you do realize you do realize president Trump won the popular vote and the American public weighed everything consideration looked at his first term they looked at the disaster of Biden Harris over the past four years and they reelected president Trump with historic numbers that's because they want the econ I I think just the I think the question Really was about the justice department being politicized that was your assertion Jason yes I think the the real

issue here is that it's hard to make the argument that the justice department is politicized ized against for one particular party when the party in pow uh president's son was the one who is also prosecuted so one could make the argument maybe both sides make the argument that there has been some politicization or maybe over Politicization in the prosecution of of of Biden's son I understand the argument that you're going to make but it's very difficult to say that the the justice department is politicized in One Direction when the son of the president but let

me just two more things real quick I just want to you also made the point I just I just want to put a pin in this you said the only it's very convenient to be able to pluck one thing that Donald Trump says And say that that is the thing that he said you said he said retribution will be his success he also had talked about putting Liz Cheney in front of a firing squad he talked about hanging Mark Millie I mean so so it's it's it's convenient to pick the the definition of Retribution but

he has said so many things Jason you can't just pick one of them and then the issue what the final thing is President Biden's attack against the Judicial system undermines the confidence that all of us have in in the a the the nonpartisan nature of justice so in the pardon of his son he he should never have undermined the justice system in the same way that frankly those of us who look in a pment at the Trump Administration uh were looking to Democrats to uphold a standard of of of of a partisan and nonpartisan nature

in justice department and so that undermines the entire system the Integrity of the entire system for all Americans um I want to move on to uh a related but but different topic um and again back to Anita was President Biden right to run again in the first place after suggesting that he would be a transitional figure to a new generation and did he drop out too late so he said that once I'm going to go back to the you um to what Margaret just said about you can take one statement somebody says one time he

said that one time in 2020 And like any president once he got in there he discovered there was a lot to do let us not forget Maggie we had a extremely successful first two years in terms of extraordinary legislative accomplishments including the infrastructure building nobody been able to do for years um including the um inflation reduction act poorly named but Monumental in terms of what is going to accomplish for the American people and a number of other things and then a Midterm ction that was far more successful than anybody believed was possible given the overall

economic status of the country so given that his decision to run which was his decision because people make that most personal decision themselves was was not one that was really controversial within the party at the time and it was a pretty logical one for him to make there were things that he felt he still needed to do and he thought he was the right Person for the job that's why people people decide they want to run for the presidency so um you know the way it unfolded I think people will spend the rest of their

lives kind of looking at this election but I'll say that the decision that he made was not um was was not a decision that was really a tough call for him I don't think given the fact that he felt he was a successful president with a vision of where he wanted to lead the country and he had Just LED his party through midterms that no one predicted would be as successful as they were van Jones um look I think uh winning the midterms cost us because it gave a false sense of confidence to Joe Biden

and to a lot of DC Democrats most people in the party didn't feel that way people were were shocked that Biden wanted to run again and disappointed and the poll showed it immediately it wasn't like there was some big mystery about that um look this Is a party that loves Joe Biden loves Joe Biden you never hear people talk about a politician with as much love as they do but people were disappointed that he decided to run again and you know the Red Wave did show up in the midterms but it sure showed up later

um I also just want to say you know stuff we talking about before look man people now are scared uh Jason I mean uh you're you're very confident uh in president Trump and I appreciate your confidence I Got people who are literally terrified because people take the things that he says seriously when he says he's coming after folks every one of the people we just mentioned are people who are hiring lawyers people who are thinking about leaving the country and so if he didn't mean it then I wish he would come out and say that

and I hope you tell him to do that and and and there's also been reporting yeah he didn't go after Hillary Clinton but there's been Reporting that he he did go after John KY and other he was being restrained so just understand there is a level of concern on this side uh the last thing I just want to say is that um you know there's a reckoning inside the Democratic party uh K Harris promised us freedom well she delivered it to us because now we're free from having to run anything in Washington DC uh that's

not what we were signing up for it's what we got um and I hope the party take The chance to look at the fact that we pushed all our Rebels out of this party uh we had a rebellion in our party in 2016 it was called Bernie Sanders you had a rebellion in your party in 2016 it was called Donald Trump your Rebel won our Rebel lost uh and then since then the rebels in our party been pushed out uh RFK was a rebel inside of our party he wanted to run against Joe Biden fair

and square the DNC wouldn't let him pushed him out uh you can you can walk Down the list uh uh don't forget Elon Musk was a uh Andrew Yang Democrat four years ago uh he's out uh you can walk down the list uh Joe Rogan was very favorable toward Michelle Obama he was a Bernie guy he's out so there's something that's happened in this party where the rebels in this party no longer feel like they have a place and we've got to be able to talk about that stuff honestly I love Joe Biden Joe Biden

picked me out of the puppy pile and gave me a chance To be uh to work with you guys I love him he should have but he should have walked away and let other people people in this party step up to the bat he didn't and we paid the price um van and Alexis Miguel Johnson just answer a question of how how Democrats could have won what could they have done differently I mean van sort of answered this by saying not have Joe Biden but but given the race that was over the three months what

could have been done Differently if anything you know look I mean I I I definitely hear um how the the midterms gave us a false sense of hope I do think that the fact that the midterms coming on the heels of Dos right the the the the power and the anger and the outrage that people had really was underestimated and and I think we continue to see that through uh through 24 I think abortion made um uh not only the midterms competitive clearly um but it also kept kamla Harris Competitive because she stepped into that

role um and for two years had been has has been an incredible surrogate and messenger meeting with folks across the the um you know the country to really understand the impact and really frame the conversation around freedom I do think that the economic messaging as it relates to it abortion was not the uh the only issue it was a central issue but connecting uh even using abortion as A way to talk about the economic constraints that families were experiencing and understanding the decisions the daily decisions that they were making from you know buying a box

of cereal to you know making decisions about if when and how their families um would uh you know would would uh uh survive I think is was critical so I I would have liked to have seen a little bit more on the economic messaging um that would have helped ground folks in Um and and connecting more obviously to to men and men's concerns which I think came a little late on on that note Anita Don if President Biden had stayed in the race do you think he would have won you know I don't think anyone

has any way of knowing okay and I think that for everyone who can say if this person had been the nominee if this had happened if that had happened those of us who've done presidential politics no a lot of things happen in presidential politics You can't predict um I think that the Contours of the race didn't change as much as people thought when you had um President Biden step down and the vice president become the nominee and I I do want to say something about the vice president she did a terrific job okay she just

did a terrific job I thought that she was a leader I was I I mean I obviously hoped she would win for a number of reasons but one reason I truly hope she would win was because I thought A great legacy for Joe Biden would be having put a woman in the pipeline so that when the opening occurred a woman was the Natural Choice for people which is of course something that I think is helpful to everybody um having said that and going to actually your core question what could have been done when you have

a race as close as this one was and it was not a landslide I mean the president-elect has less than 50% of the vote now and it's going to win by 1.5 Million ele um popular vote which is a victory he won and more decisively than either of the previous two elections for either winner oh that's not Joe Biden won by 7even million votes not in the Electoral College yeah but but I'm just saying he won okay but when you have a race this close right when there 250,000 votes across seven states then you can

spend a huge amount of time saying this tactic that tactic but I think that going to something van said that it's an Opportunity for the Democratic Party to take a step back and to you know in a way that we have not for a while and it's a healthy thing to actually ask ourselves not just how did we communicate our message should we have been on Joe Rogan but what are we saying to people and are we listening to them or are we expecting them to listen to us because I I do think that the

party itself needs to look at these results look at what happened in in terms of Voting groups and I know you're going to get to that but but I think that this is you know was not a wipe out the way 1980 was or 1994 was or 2010 or some of the you know I'm old enough to have been around for you know Ronald Reagan carrying 49 states it wasn't that but and we even probably picked up a little in the house so the house will be super close the Senate is what it is it

was not that big of a victory however it is a message to this party right and you You want to say no we got wiped out we did not get wiped out I didn't say I just laughing I didn't yeah I it's a wipe out so there there are ways to president Trump increased his vote total in nine out of 10 counties in this country all right in the places where the race was most closely fought the Battleground state things were relatively close but not all that close the margins were bigger than they were In

2016 and 2020 on the Trump side in places where the race was not thoroughly joined Illinois new Jersey California where people had just a general sense of direction and attitude they voted for President Trump that's an important thing for Democrats to ponder and to look at when you're collapsing in New Jersey when you're collapsing in Illinois you're coming to a near collapse in California there is something that you need to address and Take seriously one thing I would like to say about this question of Justice being politicized I've never covered a member of Congress or

a governor or a senator who thinks any invest ation from any us attorney wasn't politicized straight up Matt Gates thought that the Trump Justice Department investigation into him was politicized and said so okay politicians always run to politicize Justice when they're in the dock all right what president Trump said to the Country is political popularity should immunize me from these charges that was the question he laid before the country the country gave an answer you have to respect that answer whether you agree with it or or not he said I will put this in the

Forum of politics I will delay everything judicially as is my right under due process delay is a tactic it is a long running tactic of Donald Trump everyone who brought these cases should have known that delay and That a political appeal would be the Playbook that's exactly what happened and he got the verdict politically that has immunized him now legally Kevin McCarthy were going to say something 55 counties flipped to Trump some have not ever voted for a republican Lake County California hasn't voted for a republican since 1984 if you want to remember that so

no it wasn't close this was an amazing vote where took Place the when you look two years ago democrats should have looked four years ago when Joe Biden won he only won by 48,900 the first time since 1994 not one Republican incumbent lost in the house everybody thought 15 they'd beat 15 Republicans we beat 15 Democrats so it was four years ago you knew you had this problem in the last election you had abortion the Supreme Court nothing to do with Joe Biden and you had a Redistricting which made fewer competitive seats so it wasn't

something that Joe Biden did to make some election and you lost the house so I don't know when when you lose a house as somehow you were successful in an election to marlot Garland you're saying he did something he didn't go after no he let uh he let had the whistleblowers from the IRS not come forward to the Ways and Means Committee Hunter Biden would not have gone forward to be prosecuted Because he was getting a plea deal stay of he he was getting waved away the last five years they didn't go forward so marlot

Garland got pushed because whistleblowers came forward not because he was some holy man of an attorney general and the last thing I would say when you look at this election going forward um she was always going to lose if you look at the pardon the way he wrote it if you look at running for reelection I was on the other stage a Year ago and I talked about why Joe Biden should not run by mental capacity of personal experiences I had the vice president came on a few people after me and criticized what I said

and said his age had no determination of going forward these decisions of the Parton and running again were all decisions made with this president with his family and every time he's sitting with his family he's made the wrong decision and Nobody on this table would have thought that he wasn't going to Pardon him so we thought he was lying to us the entire time and I knew they were lying to us about his mental capacity every time I met with him look look it's it's extraordinary that you had you had a situation where 70% of

the country was saying they didn't want a trump Biden rematch where the majority of Democrats were saying they didn't want Joe Biden to run again and nobody really stepped Forward now in terms of the promise to turn over to the next Generation be a bridge to the Next Generation which he said once in Michigan after the primary in 2020 with KLA Harris on the stage with Gretchen Whitmer on the stage uh and with with other potential uh you know people seeing as the bridge to me uh I know and I'm sure other reporters here for

did did you know some of those took it as a promise they thought Biden was really going to do one term and out Regardless of whether he and and he did to be fair he was asked in the election whether or not he would commit to serving only one term and he did and he said no um but but look uh Biden took specific steps to ensure that it was going to be extremely difficult for anybody to challenge him he changed the primary calendar NOP um he took some of his um you know potential Rivals

and put them on his campaign committee uh you know this is stuff that any incumbent President for reelection to do absolutely um but um and then made it clear that there were going to be no debates and you know there were going to be no debates so they were shut off but ultimately it's on those Future Leaders of the democratic party and the bench was deeper than it had been for a long time uh not to ultimately step in and say I'm going to take him on nobody stepped forward to take him on and that's

the question the Democrats have To ask about it's not whether or not Biden should have dropped out first but whether why nobody other than Bobby Kennedy Maran Williams pH Dean Phillips Dean Phillips none of these major figures the governors came forward and said I'm going to take on Joe B there was something else going on at the time there were articles where Democrats were saying please dump kamla Harris from the ticket change your vice president that's a parlor game that's played every time There's an incumbent president who's eligible to run for a second term but

let's all be honest and Van Jones and I talked about this milin Institute in early May let's be honest part of the reason that President Biden could not step aside is people didn't have confidence in the competence of KLA Harris and then all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that she she has worked hard she does speak well the American people saw it differently and I'm glad to I'm I'm relieved to hear that very few lessons it sounds like have been learned by my Democratic colge oh wait I'll I'll get my turn oh wait

I hear yours but let me just say this Maggie I think that this um election was also about moments that Donald Trump has this sense of the culture culture he just glams onto a cultural zist and leads it so I think him rather than Banning Tik Tok like Joe Biden did and KLA Harris did by extension he got on it And Forbes Magazine wrote an article maybe two weeks ago tops saying of the 10 top Tik toks of 2024 eight came from the Trump campaign five in the last week alone so he's in the garbage

truck he's at McDonald's you're watching Joe Rogan live but then other people are watching it through TI to um he goes to East Palestine before any before any official in the Biden Harris Administration before the Secretary of Transportation before the sitting senior senator now The ex senator of Ohio sherid Brown and uh he is he's honoring the police officer who slain in masaa New York on Long Island while Clinton Bill Clinton Barack Obama and Joe Biden are all at Radio City Music call it a fundraiser he beats K Harris to Georgia and North Carolina where

people are in pain where everything that they've had and loved ones have been washed away literally and KLA Harrison in San Francisco at a fundraiser so people see this they know What they see they know what they hear and I think the big distinction in this last election two I'll say quickly one was the Democrats would have won if they got away with convincing Americans to believe what the Democrats told them was real and true and authentic rather than what they saw and with their own eyes and heard with their own ears what was real

and true and authentic everything from a sitting president's obvious mental and physical lack of Acuity Agility ability but even the vice president whose official schedule that they stopped publishing a while ago had little to nothing on it most weekends and then most days so you can't just you you can't create a candidate out of somebody who is going to eat and own all these things second thing I want to say is very quickly this is I listened for 26 minutes um very quickly is that um putting Harris on the ticket I I think also sealed

Biden's fate and him Thinking that he was FDR hanging out with John me and and instead of like realizing you're here to be the the postco caretaker you're here after George Floyd's murder the idea that he was going to govern is Bernie Sanders who had already been pushed out of the party as somebody who beat Hillary Clinton folks in 23 contests that's a real primary opponent and this is the election where Americans are saying no more you are not going to pigeon hole And narrow cast me and tell me what to think for whom to

vote and how to feel based on my age my gender my race my sexual orientation My Religion my political party registration my past voting behavior and whether it's an Seltzer's phony poll or phony focus groups of of junk saying that KLA Harris is going to win attacking people like Kevin McCarthy thank you so much for having the courage in 2022 you and president Trump to and the RNC to have Run these candidates in California and New York because without that we would not have had the majority in the House of Representatives you had the courage

to go into blue States and go into purple districts and do that I think they misread the Mandate Maggie in 2022 of the midterm a lot of those terrible candidates fell short they should have they weren't great candidates but the Republicans won three million more of the popular vote than the Democrats they Misread a mandate for Joe Biden who wasn't even invited on the campaign Trail they sent out Barack Obama not Joe Biden to campaign for candidates so you've got to you know we have to level set with the public and stop pretending that these

counties didn't flip and and and last point every how many last points you got to do I got this well they're all good ones I'm not here spinning they're really great and I'm not here spinning and pretending that This election a lot of this conversation respectfully sounds like the election didn't happen yet we talked about the same stuff over and over again the fact is this I said it a year ago I'll say it again because it was just raised the Democratic party right now every day they wake up it's still January 6 2021 on

the calendar they get an electric vehicle they they get an abortion you're out of touch with the public this election was a rejection of Wokeness and people every state went more red except Nebraska and Washington state that is a sweep that is a mandate that is President Trump coming into office and the American people saying please make my life safer more secure more affordable please get us out of these foreign engagements and I think the always wrong never trumpers who had unlimited money um uh cost the party cost the Democratic party which they say they're

not even a member another Presidential election van hang on one second I going let Sarah longell respond yeah so um first of all thank you for pointing out that I do a lot of focus groups um I do and uh I they didn't say we all do we they didn't say KLA Harris was gonna win uh Trump Trump trump okay no you have stage five Trump arrangement I get fig yeah that's right I think you guys I think you guys are are are bad people who are bad yes are bad for the Country yes that's

right who who attacked who attacked the Constitution Donald Trump uh yeah people yes this is this is what they do so here's the thing voters Kell no no yeah I'm going to I'm going to because the thing is is I actually agree with a number of the things kellyanne said about the about the actual voters which is that and here's the thing most of the independent voters they were double haters right they don't love Donald Trump they most Of them hate Donald Trump actually but they also and this is an indictment of the Democrats okay

Joe Biden should not have run he was too old and every voter said it it was in all of the data that Joe Biden should not be the nominee he should have been a one-term president who was a bridge and let the party have a primary that is the only thing that you can R KH at this moment and go back and say what would have been different KLA Harris coming in with a 100 days Left wasn't going to do the trick and I think that she did she so exceeded expectations though in terms of

where the low expectations for her were she increased her favorables and that allowed uh Democrats to sort of go back to something Kevin McCarthy was saying you know they were able to make it extremely close in the house the the the Republicans are still losing House Seats right now it's going to be like a three- seat uh majority they held on to a lot Of places in the Senate where uh Democratic senators overperformed kamla Harris and so Donald Trump didn't have uh the same coattails but what was happening is it because there's some great you

know thing about Donald Trump or were people so angry about inflation so angry about a lot of Co there's still a lot of Co hanger they were so angry about immigration Democrats have no answer no plan on immigration and voters really care about it and so um you know I think that and when I say um you know there's sort of there's a lot about what voters think uh that comes from the fact that people lie to them right they were lied to about the 2020 election being stolen it's interesting to hear Kevin talk about

2020 right now and and essentially in the frame that Joe Biden won because that is not a given in the Republican party they lie to people all the time Donald Trump is a professional liar and as a result but they are better At working the media channels Democrats people are stupid you're sitting here saying the American people are stupid no I'm saying you guys are better at talking you guys is it's like the Trump campaign uh the Trump trump went everywhere ridiculous JD Vance went everywhere right they went on every podcast they talked to every

person and Joe Biden and KLA Harris didn't isn't that a different point Sarah there is a there's a point I got Called on 15 minutes ago I'm just saying hang van hang on just one second I just want to address that though because I do want John Carl to speak to this and major and Margaret after van talks but we're getting a little behind here um the i i the issue of the media approach is actually a really important one yeah the issue of the issues immigration and Corona virus which we haven't even discussed yet

and I want to get to but van please uh make your point okay look Guys a lot of the stuff we're doing is the same stuff we do all the time right we got a chance to talk real here I want to talk real um you guys shouldn't be as happy as you are because 2016 people voted for change because they were fed up and sick of it gave Trump a chance 2020 people voted for change because they were sick of trump 2024 voted for change they're probably GNA vote for change a bunch more times

because this something is off Man there's something really going wrong for real everyday work and folks in this country and I'm not sure either party has an answer yet we know how to beat each other up when the other one's in power but can we solv any these problems my perspective doesn't come from the f groups it doesn't come from sitting on CNN next to my beloved Anderson Cooper I was on the ground supporting folks in Philadelphia trying to get folks to vote I was trying to help Jewish voters get To the polls in the

Philly suburbs and I'm telling you we are way off the entire political class is way off um first of all digital is a new door knocking you got to understand that we were laughing our butts off at Donald Trump for suspending his door- knocking campaign and letting Charlie Cur Elon do a bunch of stuff online we said these guys are idiots these guys are stupid then you start knocking on these doors you know what people come to the door With their phone in their hand they're in a 24-hour digital surround sound that has nothing to

do with CNN has nothing to do with any stuff that we do I asked my I got a teenage son I ask him who are the most influential people in the world today I'm thinking to myself he's gonna say Barack Obama Oprah Winfrey Jay-Z he says Kai sent Aiden Ross jinxy and sketch I don't know who he's talking about I said what what what platforms You are he goes I'm on Twitch kick and Rumble I said that sounds like you need to go to the hospital what are these platforms I'm telling you guys the mainstream

has become Fringe and The Fringe has become mainstream there are platforms there are people out there that are getting 14 million streams and we're on cable news getting one or two million and so there is a whole world out there Kelly and Conway I hate to agree with Her but I do a lot of times Donald Trump understood that and we didn't and it's not just Democrats that don't the entire political class is way off way off way off and I'm going to tell you something else men are hurting man men are hurting and the

feminist culture tells you don't cry cuz you're the problem anyway and the masculine culture tells you don't cry cuz Boys Don't Cry so you Just aren't able to talk about how scared you are you can't provide for anybody you don't you can't talk about how scared you are that you don't understand your kids and what's going to happen to them you can't talk about anything so at least Donald Trump lets you have an emotion beside shame and so guys we can sit up here all day long and do this talking point gumbo stuff that we

do but I'm telling you right now you guys are going to be in trouble next Because until somebody fixes these problems for real people there is is a rebellion in this country and anybody who comes out and sounds like they aren't pulling their their talking points out a Cracker Jack Jack box will get a hearing whether they're right wrong or otherwise all right hang on one sec Margaret Hoover um to Van's point about the media mainstream media becoming Fringe which I'm not sure I quite agree with but you can't actually' Given our surroundings that's actually

but it is certainly true that the mainstream media does not have the impact at once was what do you John Major see as the future for what reporting looks like as we go forward into the next Trump Administration um and what is the approach that the mainstream media should do considering controversies of the last term the the underpinning and the foundation of a Representative democracy it relies on a free press it relies on transparency it relies on people observing what is happening amongst those who hold power and then reporting it and not not just reporting

it I mean reporting we don't have to think of in in the traditional sense but look video cameras are everywhere now and you know we don't have to wonder whether you know somebody was held down for however many seconds we have a video of it I think being able To see Trans transparen on camera what is happening is is is part of a story so I do think digital isn't not just the new door knocking digital is the New Media I mean digital is how we hold those in power to account and people who are

in the digital space who are who are capturing the moments where people who hold power which is the trust of the public that is how we hold people account and then you know so this is and the New York by the way we're all doing This because this is not being broadcast on cable news this is not being broadcast on television this is being broadcast by digital and so we we're all moving there even if we're a beat behind um but it but transparency is I mean reporting and telling the truth and transparency is how

we hold those in a power to account Alexis Michel Johnson yeah I mean look as as an organization that reaches millions of people every single day to have conversations around Bodily autonomy we are all on digital right so the idea that the Harris campaign was not on digital that the IES like future forward were not on digital and spending uh millions of dollars to reach those folks to hire influencers to bring them to the DNC right and have a totally different kind of uh reach Outreach to to to Young Folks and and people of color

much differently than we seen in the past it doesn't mean that we need to know who tank and pleas and you Know all the folks are um but they are out there and they are having those conversations you know I think that the the difference is and I you know I listen to kellyan talk about you know the the rejection of of wokeness you know we also saw um a closing argument that was grounded in white nationalism and Supremacy and patriarchy and the Madison Square Garden Fiasco like you know the idea that that is what

people are accepting that young men are Accepting that because because of of Shame of of of their masculinity and how they are engaging that's the emotion they're they're they're leaning into I think is is way more problematic in terms of what we need to be thinking about and and bringing the Next Generation into this so I don't think it's just a critique of of mainstream media not giving the information I think we are living in a very Digital Society but one that is so polarized right that Has created like wherever you're getting your media it's

not like your media the people who are listening to to Tang are not the same people who are listening to Joe Rogan right and so how do you actually bring them together and create the structures that's what the parties need to be thinking about that's certainly what the Democratic party needs to be thinking about how are you bringing people and fighting the polarization that seems to be locked Into a different structure and one that is reinforcing you know some very problematic identities you know identity politics and othering politics that are very focused on hate and

Division and that's what I'm deeply concerned about uh I want to speaking of polarization turn to um Kevin McCarthy um oh do you have something you want to say about Jonathan talk Jonathan do you have something to add I I was just going to make a point on on on the media coverage Um and there's you know there's been so much tension you know Donald Trump's vilification of the media enemy of the people opposition party fake news all of that uh but it was interesting to see the way KLA Harris engaged with what the so-called

mainstream media which was for much of the campaign not at all um she uh she came out of a very successful convention um and then almost went into hiding to prepare for her first ma major media engagement which Was a 20-minute interview with her running mate on CNN uh that came and went like that and then you know went in to prepare for a a debate and and and you know she didn't she didn't not only did she not engage with Joe Rogan or all these alternative uh media you talking about she didn't engage uh

with with uh the major broadcast media with the New York Times she and and the complaints coming out of the Democrats um were almost as stridden as The ones coming out of out of out of the Trump campaign about the coverage and yet there were so little engagement Tim Walls um you know was chosen in large part you know got on on on KLA Harris's radar screen because of his Effectiveness on cable television um and then he went into hiding did anybody hear from Tim Walls after he was uh after he became the uh the

Democratic Nomine disasterous debate and I'd like to well you saw the debate my point is My point is he didn't go he he didn't go anywhere even you he would he went and he did his speeches even the little traveling press Corp that follows the vice president or the running mate uh had had almost no access to him didn't engage didn't take questions I interviewed JD Vance time and time again myself during the campaign he was everywhere uh Tim Walls was in hiding transparent and truthful I thank ABC news for giving a platform to Vice

Harris because the view definitely did her inor so one thing on the med go ahead Jason and then and then yeah I think we're talking about a lot of very important issues and I think van probably made the the best point that I've heard so far today that the reason why people are frustrated is because their wages aren't growing and they see the rich getting richer and they see that they're working very hard and nothing's improving in their lives now Obviously that had a very good four-year run with President Trump and what I think it's

big part big part of the reason why he was voted back into office but it's also it's not just the fact that on their wage growth they're also looking and seeing those clips on Tik Tok and on other places of the Border being wide open they're seeing the horrific the horrific and disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan some very serious things that people take as Personal offenses that are impacting them while they're struggling to even I mean Cashing Out 401ks even paid the rent and just to get by and they see illegal migrants being put up at

hotels being given their own communities that makes people mad and I think one other thing too on the media Point going to what John said when you talk about President Trump and essentially his flood the Zone approach with media being everywhere we're talking about a lot of Critical issues but the thing that hasn't really brought up is the authenticity issue and as a candidate people wanted to have uh a beer with and talk about their economic future with somebody who doesn't drink and somebody who himself is a billionaire because was authentic because he could speak

to them in direct and plain spoken and without a filter and when you look at the way that Biden and Harris tried to hide then president Trump cut through and it Was it was very clear Major Garrett and then Anita so M you asked a moment ago about press coverage of the incoming Trump Administration Kellan knows this John knows this when we covered the first Trump Administration I told a lot of reporters do not get emotional about this and do not fall into this trap of critics saying you're normalizing Trump the presidency is an institution

the country confers the normality of the presidency full stop the occupant of the Presidency is the president and you cover the president and you do it with curiosity and Clarity and accuracy and that's it and if you get emotionally involved in it not only is that journalistically erroneous Trump will manipulate you Trump understands your emotions much better than you do figure that out people Trump is someone who possesses within the iCal context Supreme emotional intelligence especially where Reporters are involved so that's one thing to level said Kelly Kellan made a mention of culture I just

want to refer to something that Tony Blair used to say Tony Blair said when Economic Times Are convulsive and people feel dislodged they don't move left economically they move right culturally yes MH it was true 20 30 years ago and Tony Blair said it it's true now and and I've done a little bit of reading about Grover Cleveland because they are now matched Historically me to the punch on one of the questions I was going to ask you it is not historically coincidental that the two times we have had non-consecutive reelected presidents were times of

tremendous economic dislocation all right the digital age is what we live in now the Gilded Age was occurring dur during Grover Cleveland's time in office and others massive dislocation massive convulsions people Feeling as if the world they knew is not only changing but may never be there again and they are uncertain about things one thing I will say about uh Grover Cleveland when he was nominated in 1884 the seconding speech in Chicago said the people love him quote because of his iron will but they love him most for the enemies he has made that was

in a completely different context that was about tamy Hall and Grover Cleveland's New York political Life but you could say that about Donald Trump and you could say that about Donald Trump from 2015 onward the enemies he has made and the American people keep looking at the people that are enemies of trump and say you know what there's something about that that makes me side with him despite all the misgivings you Sarah have given voice to and that's just a fact I need it done yeah so I I want to go back to what something

van said but I think we've all Touched on it and haven't really discussed it yet which is that it is a change electorate and that the people you know and if you look around the world the people who were in power after covid and after we came out of the pandemic tend to to suffer because there is economic dislocation and people are unhappy but one of the one of the um disturbing things for the Democratic party and something that we as a party have to face up to is that we have Absolutely lost our credibility

with people who are at the lower end of the economic scale and that is since the new deal right what our party's identity has been so right now we're a party that thinks that we are representing them and thinks we're talking to them but we actually are not doing a very effective job and I want to go to the role inflation played okay because we haven't we touched on it a little but you know if you were to say to me why'd you lose The easiest answer out there is inflation and prices and the cost

of rent and you know Jason touched on this a little bit absolutely true you know people in this country remember 2019 okay and they remember it was a time when grocery prices were a lot lower when they felt like they could go buy a house because interest rates were low you know we heard this over and over again from voters 2019 it was you know and Joe Biden was elected president in 2020 losing the economy to Donald Trump they still thought Trump was better on the economy even as Joe Biden was elected but it was

a huge issue and inflation is something that I think you can't message your way out of and so if you were to say to me what is the Democratic party's biggest problem right now is that the people we think we're representing don't think we are representing them when it comes to the core issue for them which is the economy And how am I going to make it and I used to pay this much and now I'm paying that much and I can't afford it and Van talked about this but I think it is such a

real thing for the Democratic party that that as we um you know over the last 10 years or so really the last um four election Cycles the acceleration of this has just become serious very quick um I don't want to go quick I want to go as long as Kelly ain't I got lot to say so look um look um I think that you're Talking about something that's important for this party um both these parties are hypocritical uh you have uh the Republican party that's the party of Lincoln uh it's a party of in its

own mind uh it's a radical anti-slavery party it's a party of individual rights and individual dignity and they have a bunch of white nationalists running around in there that's a problem our party is supposed to be the party of FDR and working folks But if you don't eat kale and go to yoga classes you can't go to most of these meetings and so that's a problem so you have two two parties have fundamental hypocrisies built into them we thought that their hypocrisy was going to blow them up we thought that playing fil with all these

crazy people was going to blow but it's our hypocrisy that blew us up and so rather than sitting up here and trying to defend everything I think it's an opportunity because most people Listen to this New York Times going to be our people so look there's a bunch of stuff we did wrong you touched one of them people hurting economically and we kept trying to tell them that you know we're building Cathedrals for in 20 years with this inflation reduction act it didn't work we also ran people out of our party on crypto 50 million

people bought some crypto that's a bet on a future they're trying to get to a better future Joe Biden KLA Harris Elizabeth Warren beating the hell out of crypto beating the hell out out of silic Valley people was not smart not inviting Elon Musk to the White House when you're doing an EV day because he doesn't have union workers was not smart you're pushing people out of the party that's a mistake people are concerned about the health of their children we used to own that Michelle Obama owned that we gave that up RFK Stars talking

about it we he's a Nut there's a lot of people after covid a lot of our folks Suburban Housewives and and and and other folks who are very concerned we could have talked about the issue we didn't we're pushing people out of this party and the last thing I'll say is I hate all these people the anti-woke the anti this the anti that but you got to look in the mirror at a certain point we've had five movements in a row in our part party they rely on dehumanizing binaries where you're Putting down some people

to lift somebody else up uh I love all our movements up but but there's a moral flaw when every movement's got to put somebody down black lives matter all white people are racist that that is not going to work no hold on a second hold on a second that that is that is in fact a part of the ideology that that subconsciously uh there's unconscious bias and the way that lands though for people is you're Calling them names we there's got to be a better way to say it you walk through all of our movements

you you look at Bernie I love Bernie all billionaires are evil uh everybody 99% is a victim Oprah Winfrey is a billionaire she's not evil you look at the um uh uh the climate movement all all traditional energy is evil including poor sick coal miners environmentalists can throw ketchup on the mon Lisa and their Heroes that doesn't work uh you know look at me Too look at now if you're Jewish if you're Jewish you're a colonizer if you're uh against uh if you're for the Palestinians you can do whatever you want to these things are

landing very poorly because it's not Dr King it's not Nelson Mandela it's not Ella Joe Baker it's not b l heer progressors are at our best when we're saying we want dignity for everybody the we want to free the jailed and the jailers we want to free the people who have been oppressors and The people who've been oppressed we want to free everybody when you stand for everyone's dignity everybody's Humanity the whole world stands with with you when you do these dehumanizing binaries even though we're well-intentioned it lands poorly so there's a lot of stuff

for us to look at I think we can take these same movements love everybody bring everybody to the table tell white guys we need them tell white guys we're mad at them because we need them we're Mad at them because we love them we want them on our side there's a different way to talk about this stuff we got to take these sub movements seriously we've got to and look you guys going to beat me up and I don't care I'm telling you right now there's a progressive movement that's available that if we take people's

economic pain seriously like you said take women's fear seriously like you said but also draw this circle a little bit bigger then when the when The thing comes back to us not only can we win we can govern and get something done um I want to key off something you just said about Elon Musk and the lack of an invitation to him and turn to somebody who uh knows him well uh what is your sense of how much influence Elon Musk actually has over Donald Trump right now and how long do you expect this love

f is going to last Kevin McCarthy um how long's it last I think it last quite a bit um one thing I know About the two of them they got together in the first term um Elon will not equate himself to be a Republican or Democrat if there's something that drives Elon it's the first amendment and you're right you pushed him out the Democrats pushed him out offended him is the biggest maker of EVs and you pushed him out um Elon didn't set up to think that I'm going to support Donald Trump he thought He

would lose the country if these policies with the Democrats stayed in and he had to leave California he watched what happened to him in California and he says I have no other place to go they'll make every state that way so he called it upon kind of himself to engage to try to save the country he endorsed him when he watched the assassination attack because of the reaction that he gave I mean did it wasn't in his mindset to go then I think It last a while but um there's could only be one president so

people get tired of one another and I I think it could be um it could be wearing and uh but I think Elon has done better in the process now in my conversations with him all these decisions are not decisions that Elon would make but I think he feels very fair about giving advice I think Trump is really good about embracing because there's a lot of things what's unique About Trump trump is probably our last presidential our television President I mean if you think about it we've known Donald Trump from TV long before he ever

ran that's what helped him but he's also the president that moved us to the digital there's a lot of things that are happening from space from everything else that President doesn't know about it but he trusts certain people and I think that will be an education that would move on talk a bit about just Staying with you for a second uh Mike Johnson is entering uh this new congress with a razor thin majority There is almost no room for error two things I want you to talk about one is how exactly is this going to

work and how much more important does it make the Senate and specifically John th and also why does Donald Trump run ahead of the Republican brand the way he has consistently and can any other Republican Presidential nominee put Together the Coalition that Trump did okay to be fair of Van Jones Republicans have problems too we we didn't win Donald Trump won hence the question this is um and I would say before this election whoever lost the election was the first party to correct themselves I disagree with the election about uh Hillary Clinton people were voting

against Hillary Clinton uh in that election um and both parties have problems why you think the Bernie Sanders and the Trump rise up they haven't solved the problems for all this time you're 100% both parties so people people are free to go to either way and who's going to capture them Republicans used to win when we had low turnouts we now win we have big turnouts because what did President Trump do for us he brought us people lower educator he brought us Mass people if you look at Hispanic population we do best in those areas

so um what's going to happen in um In Congress itself was the question I think the power is going to rest with th because how the next goes is how you finish this year you are doing the president a disadvantage that he's going to have to worry about last year's funding when you think about the debt ceiling I made the debt ceiling now why so you could take care of it before the next president if I I I advise this to Johnson what I would do is I would finish all the funding and I would

do The debt ceiling before the next president takes in he never got a honeymoon last time because you started attacking him he's got to he's better prepared in transition why are you making him deal with last year funding when he wasn't even around this the top lines are already set the appropriators know how to do it Johnson's worried about a speaker vote that will never happen to him what happened to me because president Trump Is there you got adult supervision nobody else can win either so you can't get to that point but you're doing the

president a disservice if he has to go deal with all last year's funding the Senate is going to become the power th is also Central Casting um he's he's the person that's going to confirm him I think he's going to find that he's going to work well with President Trump um you got reconciliation so the biggest fear you have of tax that's going to get Taken care of but you want to bring salt back you're going to have to pay for that how are you going to make the system work again again if you end

this year without fending the funding the next year doesn't start so well Jason and Kelly and I want you uh both to address something we've talked a little bit about about what president-elect Trump trump has said about retribution Jason I know you said he said um you know his Only retribution or Revenge will be a successful presidency but he's he's also actually just said Revenge um and he has uh announced that he is going to make the FBI director if he can get him confirmed and it would require either forcing Chris Ray his other appointee

for the FBI to resign uh or firing him uh he is going to name cash Patel who told Steve Bannon last year that it was imperative to quote go out and find the conspirators not just in government but In the media do you to both of you expect that that is something that Donald Trump will follow through with Jason or kellyan Jason D in I think well first of all I think cash stepping in is going to bring reform to the FBI that's much needed and I think too many Americans have lost confidence in the

FBI in the doj American justice system about where it stands I feel that Justice is being applied INE equally with President Trump I think the only People who need to be worrying are people who leak classified information uh people who have sought to undermine our justice system people who have um violated very serious laws themselves now I know that many folks here in the media and obviously we're doing this with the New York Times um take this very seriously president Trump being a strong supporter of the first amendment is always going to protect that and

I'm not concerned about that at All with this next Trump term but I do think that there has to be a Reckoning with the way that we've seen the the leaks and the classified information all the nonsense has gone on behind the scenes that has to be fixed because Americans need to have confidence in this legal system and with the the justice system it would be so bad if people were keeping classified information like in a bathroom that wouldn't be good right I Feel like it's 2022 K kellyanne Conway do you same question to you

about cash Patel do you anticipate that he will follow through with what he had said he would do last year or do you see it as Jason sees it which is the I see it as Jason sees it and as president Trump Sees at K Patel is qualified for that job I hope he gets confirmed and it's very clear going back to household names Peter struck Lisa pagee Bruce or and Nellie or people don't have Confidence in the seventh floor of the justice department they saw how politicized our FBI came became that is nothing against

the 30 35,000 Rank and file men and women who work at the FBI and show up every day doing their jobs I think that our relationship with law enforcement has taken a beating over the last however many years um saying defund the police three three of the Dumber words coming out of the democratic party um it makes people n to see that our Military our border patrol our FBI our certainly our local law enforcement feel uh they feel underresourced and under respected in doing their jobs and that is a big part of of the Trump

mandate and the Trump Coalition I want to say something else about the media um I I keep open as a window on my laptop Jeff Bas is is Washington post. bed I think that Beyond we're not going to endorse in the presidential race and people had a hissy fit and quit and Cancel their subscriptions because they have this expectation that the media are emotional about Donald Trump major that they will everybody will be Jim Rutenberg one of your colleagues at the New York Times who in August of 2016 wrote a piece basically saying Maggie listen

I'm supposed to be objective and fair and unbiased but the prospect that we can even have Donald Trump as president means I have to stop this I feel this time I'm sorryim you're saying Jim Rutenberg wrote a piece saying that yes in August of 2016 in other words like that doesn't sound like Jim Rutenberg I know and I can't say I I I'd have to go back and look at what you're saying jimber is an excellent colleague and excellent he is I'm not criticizing him I'm saying that this time I think everybody a lot of

people in the media took that mantle and they said to themselves I have to stop Trump it's my moral obligation to stop this person and Call him names and so forth even as you know Jonathan knows if think you've written three books with Trump in the title like there's this LoveHate relationship there's this this this uh this symbiosis of a relationship but I think what Jeff bzo says is important for all of us to digest where he says look he says we in the media um he was talking about the was he said we in

the media have a low approval rating we don't have this vaunted position we once Did we need to win back the trust I think many of our institutions do including the FBI and if anybody who is covering cash Patel or any other nominee and did not do it with the same enthusiasm and accuracy when Alejandra mayorcas told this country told Congress under oath in 2021 3 and A2 years ago the border is closed the border is secure and since then 10 million people have come here government statistic and since then people open up their phones

Turn on the TV and they see people here in New York City getting debit cards cash cell phones clothing hotel rooms your kid seat in a New York City classroom and they say that's not fair and they don't think of themselves as xenophobes and racist they just say this isn't fair when did this happen and so I feel that every president has Grace and latitude to put the nominees up that they want to serve them well I think president Trump is choosing people he Think will do an excellent job in those individual posts and one

more thing Maggie he's chosen people who he knows are communicators he wants his democratization of information back for America here is a man who whether you liked it or Not by 6:02 every morning you knew what he thought about for the day because he had tweeted it people miss that transparency from their commander-in-chief from a White House that telling us behind the scenes Joe Biden's actually a triathlete trap peas artist we just can't see it they want somebody to have democratization of information so that in this country in this world whether you're the stay-at home

mom the plumber on the job looking at his phone or billionaire you like those tweets a lot more now tell you that everybody you know what good at least we know what he's thinking and he's choosing people in the cabinet who are to do you mentioned some important Policy points but there was a question that Maggie said about Prosecuting the media and I think specifically with cash Patel if Jason and kellyan could respond to the promises that cash has made not just to prosecute the media but also to go after specific people who have been

part of the justice department in the previous administration including Bill bar John Bolton Mark esper uh Joe Biden forget HRC Pat balone Alysa Farah G he has a lengthy he has a Leny I mean it's in his book he published it in the append all the people that he plans to prosecute if he's in charge so I mean can you all speak are you saying welfare is a bad idea Margaret I'm sorry are are you guys are you guys are you I'm actually wondering you guys are previous previous colleagues no you and Jason no question

both of you and this is somebody who as you say Donald Trump is only going to you know nominate people who are going To prosecute his vision for government is Prosecuting people who held those positions of power in the previous administration his own Administration the proper way to go are are you suggesting that people have committed crimes cash Patel has said that he will prosecute Bill bar Mark esper Mark Millie John Bolton Cassidy Hutchinson Paton Elissa Farah Griffin you you can is that appropriate I me so I think what's going to happen Is he'll be

asked about all of that in his confirmation hearings and we should welcome those questions he's a big boy he can answer those questions I assume he'll have pre pre-confirmation hearing meetings where he could be asked those questions as well I I'm very happy to see you think that's a bad idea though I'm being honest I'm being honest my stuff and you guys aren't you think that's a bad idea I don't think it's a great idea to prosecute people um Without just cause I don't know all the facts I do know some of the people you're

mentioning were very difficult for me to deal in the white house as senior counselor president because but not criminals no no because they weren't very effective they were obsequious they always had their pom poms out and it was hard to give them any position of responsibility he loses and all of a sudden they found Rel anti-trump religion and they write their books and They go on TV they do what they do but um I think everybody here is getting a little nervous because maybe there's some regret maybe not here large there's some regret of the

way Donald Trump's been covered and by the way had people who are obsessed with Donald Trump spent in Iota I mean a cintilla of that time not focused on Trump Trump trump focused on the Trump voter the growing Trump Coalition Trump country that we have now where these these you look at the map it Looks red uh almost everywhere had spent time focus on the Trump bone instead of looking down on them and telling who they should be and what they should whom they should vote for and how they should worship their God and raise

their kid and what they should eat I'm sorry are are we not going to take a moment to be chilled by what kellyan just said prute people without just CS is that what you just said cuz what I saw what I saw you say actually always off on some tangent Insin McCarthy s let Sarah let Sarah talk Sarah insulting people by name everyone is insulting every have been insulting each other since you guys sat down next to each other so don't say Sarah's doing it that's just not fair Margaret stop yeah and also I don't

know that it's an insult to say that Kevin McCarthy said that the election was stolen that that was a lie to the American people that they now believe can we can we keep this focused on Trump That's I don't know you just you brought up you brought up or and everybody else Sarah if you want to respond to a kellyan so the reason that I do focus groups all the time is because after Trump was elected the first time I wanted to understand why cuz I was a republican right i' had been a republican my

entire life and I wanted to know why voters uh liked this person that I thought was repellent and who was saying things like go grab women by Their genitalia was doing all of this crazy stuff who's now an adjudicated rapist um you know there's there's a lot of things and I just um there's a couple things that that were in some of the answers that I think are really important going forward so one is it's not just that people are being pushed out of the democratic party there's actually a political realignment going on and so

the Democrat party is now populated by a lot more of these college Educated voters and there aren't enough of them the Republican party has built a multi-racial multi-ethnic workingclass coalition uh for a variety of reasons much of which is part of like negative polarization right a rejection of something else as opposed to an affirmative L I don't think that uh Americans wanted tariffs uh I don't think that Americans want uh a lot of the things that Trump wants but they are rejecting and just like in 2020 right When you say never Trump you know always

wrong or whatever your thing is right we beat Donald Trump in 2020 because people thought he mismanaged Co they were tired of him they were sick of him being in their face all the time and they wanted the stability but then what they got still was a bunch of things that they also didn't want mainly higher prices in an open border but I actually also want to go back to something um Jason said because I think it's important for Democrats to understand that the entire world has changed and Van was saying this too I had

written down authenticity and had squared it and then you brought it up and I think it's deeply important when I listened to voters in the focus groups when I knew Dan santis was cooked against Trump when they said he seems like a regular politician and the thing about KLA Harris is technically she could be quite good actually I think surprisingly good compared to where de Republicans had set the bar but she did not feel authentic she felt like a regular politician Joe Biden feels like a regular politician voters don't want that anymore and people are

going to have to adjust to that terrain when you give a good speech or even a good debate like and you win on points that's not enough anymore you've got to be able to walk in to all kinds of places hostile places and sit down and have a conversation and if you can't do that You can't win can I um agree more van look I I think um you know commas campaign went from brat to flat and it was obvious like there was a moment when she first got in there she was loose and she

seemed to be saying eff it and people could relate to that and and then it it seemed it got super professional super slicked up it became kind of talking point Bingo and people didn't stick with her um I think I mean what I found the message that work for KLA Harris on on the doors in the barber shops was a message he never used it was K Harris wants to lift you up Donald Trump wants to lock you up we never prosecuted Donald Trump on all the stuff he wanted to do on stop and frisk

we gave him a free pass Donald Trump said he want to bring back stop and frisk a lot of stuff that scared the crap out of young black men we told them but we the other thing that we were able to do with KLA on the doors Was Donald Trump's a little baby billionaire he's a little billionaire you want you want to be rich you're a young black man you want to be an owner you want to be an entrepreneur you want to be a provider why are you following this little baby billionaire KLA Harris

represents real billionaires she represents California she represents the biggest hold on a second the biggest bunch of billionaires in the world vote for her and donate her and and so you Then you begin to link into the aspirations of these young men who don't like what Donald Trump says but they like what he's been able to do with his life and so there was a huge disconnect from what the uh campaign thought was going to work and what was actually resonating with with with young men I'm going to tell you young men of color are

up for grabs they don't like Republicans they don't like Democrats and they don't like their Circumstances Kevin one thing I will say at times we we overthink this if I just look at a city council race or any race I start on Election Day and work backwards what is in the voters M on Election Day KLA Harris didn't flip one County not one County she did worse on the gender vote than Joe Biden did and I would say this one question to any race what's in the voter's mind on Election Day she had more than

a billion dollars And I'm being I could not tell you the three things she was going to accomplish if she got elected the only thing that comes to mind is she was going to give firsttime home buyers $225,000 so that's audiation on the campaign itself what was the campaign about we could say all these other things but to a voter out there what are you going to do well that hang hang on one sec I I want to I want to switch for a second to ask Anita a question here in Terms of just talking

about what's on voters minds and the point Jason made about immigration um we're in a sanctuary City we are in a city where the mayor uh who has also been indicted um has been praising uh president-elect Trump a lot he also angered the Biden Administration by being very critical about the Border policies um did he have a point given where things were and where the electorate has shown it was I mean do You think that the the Biden White House was slow to react to What was clearly a crisis in the minds of Voters or

anything should have been dealt with differently in the first two years that's a huge question it is but yeah you know I think that you know I I think that immigration was an issue that was seen as something to be managed as opposed to really addressed and don't forget every every Administration in this one will be no Different comes in in reaction to What has gone before and what the 2020 campaign and what the Biden Administration was reacting to was were the policies of President Trump and his first Administration family separation children being locked in

cages things like that that were very powerful images for the American people and and you know obviously came into office Co we had title 42 so we had a shut border at that time we had unaccompanied miners which Was our first immigration problem solved it um but there's no question that the administration should have moved more quickly once title 42 was no longer in effect to get control of what was happening there and there's no question quite frankly that had we done that New York Chicago cities where you saw a dramatic drop off in Democratic

vote probably would have looked a little different so this is another reason why you lost Elon Musk was what was Happening on the border this is another reason why you have two counties in Texas who have never in the history of America voted for a republican vot for it's another reason why we're winning the Hispanic vote well yeah look the one of the central arguments against Trump was these chaos he's going to bring chaos back and if you look at at Joe Biden's approval rating it actually went down well into his first year it was

with the withdrawal from Afghanistan and Those images which were more chaotic than any images frankly that we saw during the four years of the Trump presidency so you combine that with the images coming from the border um which were again not only you know so many people coming that the whole chaos around it and KLA Harris had an answer on the border which was the immigration bill which was an immigration bill that wasn't brought up until you know almost 3 years uh in into the Biden presidency Um and she also said and we put an

we had an immigration bill on the first day of of our presidency well that that bill which wasn't they never really pushed for it wasn't going to go anywhere was not a border security bill it was the opposite it was rolling back everything that Trump had done so really she really didn't have an answer on on that or frankly on Afghanistan Anita did you have something you want to say well I think the one thing I would say is that The answer for kamla Harris was we do need to be tougher and I think that

that was an obvious one everyone would have accepted it yes we need to be tougher yes and we should have been tougher but was she the immigration Zar I mean did you argue I really wasn't that but we all watched it Union for we can do that do that look the minute those governors Red State Governors started putting buses full of folks in front of Comm house and every place else We were in deep trouble and if if I had you know direct rcon as you said um call those governors to the White House sit

down and let's figure this thing out there was an There's an opportunity to be bipartisan Joe on the issue and he didn't do it and we paid a price look I think the freedom that we have now it's not the freedom we wanted but Democrats I do think cuz most of our people listen this are Democrats who are miserable who are depressed who cut off the news who Are talking to three therapist today guys guess what for the first time in a long time we don't have to run institutions that most people hate or protect

them there is an opportunity now these guys own it all Donald Trump is the most powerful person in human history he has the White House the Supreme Court the Senate the house the popular vote uh a massive movement behind him a massive media system that the tailor made for him he owns it all And thank goodness because people are going to figure out if his ideas are good or bad now for the first time we don't have to run these things let our Rebels have a chance let people who' got new ideas have a chance

let people who are coming out of these neighborhoods have a chance and let's get let love have a chance we can lift up poor black and brown folks without putting anybody down we can lift up women without putting anybody down we can stick up for The Earth without putting anybody down there is a condescension there is a I'm right and you're wrong there's a I'm better than you that we can just let go of because there's going to be enough pain and suffering out there and people looking for real answers that if we let some

of these new ideas come forward new people come forward I think we can actually inherit in two years a real movement and that's with needed Alexis hang on one second Alexis Mel Johnson man I love you I love you D dearly have known you for years and and I don't disagree that there should be Love and Hope and freedom to let the other folks fail right in some ways but that pain and that suffering and that harm is real those are the people who come through our doors every single day the undocumented folks the the

women the low-income folks who don't have any other place to get their ha right and they're they're not they may come for Birth control but they are they are leaving and they are worried that they are going to be locked up that their kids are going to be grabbed from school that they're going to be grabbed from front job like the fear and the terror and I I think the challenge that I have is is is the idea that somehow the movement made this binary right it is the the fight for Humanity right it the

dehumanization was already it already existed it already was happening and it Was being codified into policies just as it has with DOs and so you know I see this as a you know a roll back on you know 50 you know to 100 years of progress that we have been making among communities of color among gender among you know people who just want to live their their lives and I think we are overstating the multi-racial Coalition that Trump brought in right I I really do because I think there are enough people who stayed home who

weren't Inspired to come out because the Democrats didn't offer something but they they were still very consistent in in their numbers just a little bit of of reach which we would expect but it it's not some overwhelming um you know majority and I think you know when you start to take away rights from folks right you're not saying that they're equal right you're saying that they're not your peers because you don't take away rights from people that are your Peers and you're allowing the dehumanization to to flourish and the reason we're all in therapy and

worried is because of the pain and the harm so we cannot just let a tyrant kind of be in an institution like the presidency without that you know that fear and Reckoning of what we need to be let let me ask Sarah Longwell a related question what happens to the future of the never Trump movement from here I mean I don't think never Trump is a is a relevant Thing to talk about anymore like never Trump Republicans were something from 2016 we were all Republicans we were never going to vote for Donald Trump because he

didn't represent our values and then we set up out to beat him and then we beat him in 20 we beat him and all the little uh Trump wannabes like him uh in 22 because we were able to move a bunch of McCain um Romney voters uh into the Democratic party they were unwilling to Vote for not just Donald Trump but Carrie Lake this time you know Mark Robinson like you've got a bunch of insane people that the Republican party has brought in because of Donald Trump however like I said there aren't enough of those

voters right the vast major like they're just more sort of non-oled workingclass Voters and Donald Trump uh though much less uh non-d Donald Trump Republicans but Donald Trump himself can pull those people out in a general Election if I were Republicans I would be deeply worried about a non-trump future because Donald Trump uniquely because he was on TV I'll never forget when I was trying to understand why Donald Trump appealed to voters in the first place how many people had watched The Apprentice now I never watched The Apprentice that wasn't it but they all had

and so this idea of Donald Trump as a television carefully curated businessman is just an idea that is Locked in the public Consciousness that gives him a superpower that other people don't have they also forgive him many of his uh trashiest most despicable qualities because he's on TV because he was on page six it's like a celebrity thing that they forgive so they don't treat him that's the reason there's a big asymmetry and how voters hold politicians accountable versus Donald Trump and so for never trumpers I think right now um like there's no more uh

Unless I mean I don't know I don't think that Donald Trump because he in those tweets that he puts out he said he would suspend the Constitution he's obviously already flirting with the idea that he could run again in 2028 he's too old I think to actually do that but um I don't think there's another time to sort of resist Donald Trump I think for a lot of us now we became very focused on Democracy right we became very focused on how do you preserve the things that Are the best about America that Donald Trump

wants to tear down you know it's funny when I listen to these guys say oh well they don't have faith in the FBI it's like oh well maybe you guys called them the deep deep state for a really long time or they don't have any faith in the media well maybe you guys have been calling them the enemy of the people and I'm not saying some of that didn't exist already and Donald Trump was able to tap into it but he has Exacerbated he has torn down people the trap trap that we now fall into

though is because of that um and and and I don't want to take away from any the pain that was just spoken to we should have started with honestly um but the the only blessing in this massive curse is that we can now dream Beyond just defense on I would like an answer actually though to what the movement ends up looking like yeah and so I think now we have to be in a position when Kellyanne says things like I don't know maybe he's going to prosecute those people stop that's let's let's it's not what

I said what what is and you just so sug daddy money for your focus grp they don't have money resistance stop I'm going to cut this I'm going to cut this Jason Miller does president-elect Trump still have faith in Pete Heth as his secretary of defense yes and Pete's going to have to go through the process meeting with the Senators individually And then going in for his confirmation hearing as we know we've seen one presidency already we have a second one then only one person's going to make these decisions and that's president Trump but I

would say when you look at where he is now in 2024 versus 2016 this is an entire different level of organization and preparedness for a new Administration I would make the case that we've never seen an Administration ever come into day one ready to go like President Trump is quite frankly because he's done it before so when you talk about the Personnel having named people for each cabinet spot by Thanksgiving that's way ahead of the pace from where it was in 2016 he has a chief of staff that's in place they have executive orders they're

ready to go on day one president Trump is ready to hit the ground running but and also I make a critical point also got a Playbook a project 2025 playb 900 i' also make the Important point he's already the president effectively you have foreign leaders coming to visit him he's issuing threats to terrorists don't we still have one president at one time or is this yes we do I'm saying in the eyes of world leaders they're already looking past Jo Biden because well the Democrats have put him out to pasture but people are now recognizing

that America has to be respected again and that's why they're coming to Mar Lago that's why They're calling him so president Trump's going to bring in this whole new era of reform form when he goes to Washington in January and I think that's going to be good for the country as the economy goes up and we secure the Border two follow-ups um he's also had two nominees and depending on what happens with heg Seth and they're not nominees yet but announced nominees withdrawn that's also record setting so there's no question that he has absolutely put

out a number Of of people as he plans to appoint um but is there something in the vetting that could have been different in terms of how he is selecting some of these people or is that beside the point I think when you look at the body of the cabinet that he's named so far these are some very solid folks and Scott bessent going into treasury letnik at Commerce uh I have a lot of confidence what these people are going to be able to do these are some very Stellar people Matt Gates Lasted 8 Days

um Kevin McCarthy do you have uh thoughts on that I surprised he lasted eight days um no I Gates wasn't vetted Gates needed to get out of Congress and Trump gave him an advantage because he had to resign before the report came out so that I I don't equate that no one thought he would ever get in um but I I would exactly say what Jason said he is better prepared and the one thing you have to remember too is Trump has 10,000 hours he knows what to do With a job he knows he only

has four years and he doesn't want to waste one moment the only thing I would take from all this discussion and Van tell me if I'm right or wrong when Republicans lose we never say we have to have therapy you just say you didn't lost you just say you didn't you didn't lose I never knew who she was until today I don't I don't know I listen but what's interesting to me is I don't think that's the right advice for the Democrats and I know what You said let them own everything the only thing I

would say is the election's over yeah the one thing I will tell you America has some very big problems one thing I try to do is Speaker the select committee on China reconstitute the others but I try to bring everybody together on our big issues we can't do it by one party our debt we got to reform our education system when you also look at defense whoever captures Ai and Quantum is going to have an Advantage but whoever has energy is going to have those we cannot say one party you have it all because our

whole government is designed that you have to have compromise there's power in the minority so what I would say engage in the process they may have power right now but you can the minority has power I did I did I did have the final word and then look I I look I I I agree with you and I I'll work with anybody to help the people at the bottom You' proven that I've Prov it I work with anybody if the least of these the addicted The Afflicted the convicted and the evicted the people that Jesus

call the least of this I'll work with anybody but the future of this party is going to be people whose names we don't know yet it's going to be people like John fedman it's going to be people like roana who are thinking outside of the box this party has a future last time we got trapped and we have to oppose everything All the time every tweet is the end of the Republic this time I think you're going to see a much more judicious Democratic party and we have the opportunity to come up with brand new

ideas that while you guys are trying to run everything we can actually start building a real movement and that's the opportunity we've got with that thank you all for being here today and and mostly holding your fire and um see you next time thank you thank you thank you Thank you