So many people have lost their channels and it's they can't get it back copyright law fair use online defamation harassment what are the legal things that creators need to know like saying ew gross that's not transforming a video really transforming a video is something different whoever's content you're using they can come and claim it and strike you what is fair use and how do you do it the right way you know when I tell Clients who are creators who want to use Clips I say what are some of the most common legal mistakes creators make
I mean there's so many things you know we can talk about those are things that they can put contracts in place to protect you today we've got Tyler Chow who's the creators attorney formerly a Hollywood attorney and her YouTube channel is crushing it you got to check it out with lots of insights into these legal issues Um but besides all of her expert in these legal areas she's also helps creaters charge three to 6X more for brand deals productize and really scale their creator businesses so if you're brand new or you're more advanced I think
this conversation is going to be incredibly juicy Tyler welcome to the show Sean thank you so much for having me I am so honored I mean I've watched so many of your videos when I was starting my YouTube channel so this is Sort of a dream come true for me well I appreciate your kind words and um thank you for adding so much value today we actually surveyed our audience on both channels think media and think media podcast and also got some questions and so I'm excited to uh have this conversation but let's just kick
it off what are some of the most common legal mistakes creators make some of just kind of the lowest hanging fruit things people need to know that could help them Be a little bit safer well you hinted at it I mean creators should really think of themselves as a business you know do do you have an LLC do you have trademarks do you have general liability insurance if you have editors even if they're independent contractors do you have them under contract because if you don't have something that says everything you create for me is owned
by me the results and proceeds are owned by me if you have a falling out with that Editor and they leave with your content they could say oh no but that's mine you know or I I learned some editing style like some secret you know thing that you do and they take it with them if you don't have a piece of paper that says that they can't take that with them then it's just a world of hurt you know in terms of who owns it you know I I've I've had I've had clients who have
this happened to them where editors leave and they say oh no or or they try to claim Ownership of the channel by saying oh no but I made you I edited from day one and so those are things that I can can put bumpers around you hire an attorney they can put contracts in place to protect you so those are sort of kind of like the lwh hanging fruit I mean there so many things you know we can talk about defamation Insurance like if you have you know any kind of reaction Channel or you even
give reviews right like even even if you're reviewing Products you could potentially get sued for defamation if you hurt you know we've seen this right like I I don't want to name who they are but they like they they give reviews and it totally takes a huge product and then you're like wow you just killed millions of dollars for us now what you know do they go after that Creator they could maybe if it's not truthful so let's unpack some of this let's let's go with the LLC thing first okay what would your advice Be
if a Creator is further along they might be um it's it's it's overdue like they're already they've got some uh editors for them they don't have the right contracts with those editors they're just operating off of no entity just their social security number if they're in the US so they have like no protection like for sure they need to probably set up an LLC but let's talk about like a brand new Creator or a small Creator they're going to be Editing themselves they're doing it as a hobby they're hustling and just kind of like trying
to get monetized or they're at a stage where a few hundred bucks are coming in a month from ad Revenue a few hundred bucks a month are coming in from Affiliates like what's that stage that you recommend someone start an LLC and think that way if it's still kind of a hobby and it hasn't crossed that threshold or do you think for protection it's almost a day one thing they would Need well this is how I usually calculate it I will ask right even a young Creator do you own a house do you have a
401k like do you you know currently work and you own assets right if you own assets then you should think about it from day one now if you're a young person you know and you don't own anything and you're really only making a couple hundred dollars I really think the kind of threshold is like $2,000 because I think to do an LLC it costs Maybe 500 to a th000 you know if you do it properly with an attorney you could do it yourself by the way you could you could file it for a couple hundred
dollars by yourself if you're you know wanting to just go on I'm in California you know California Secretary of State you just you could just do it um the one other thing that I forgot to mentioned that's tied to the LLC is you need to pay taxes I'm really really worried about so many creators out there who are Making a ton of money they're like oh my God this is amazing I'm not like I get to like keep all this cash you don't get to keep that that's just delayed and and sometimes delayed with penalty
so that is also another thing that I really recommend is having a good CPA and that's a big request the biggest requests I get right now are referrals to CPAs and uh insurance Brokers for media Insurance you know because of what H what's happening with coffee Zella Right now you know getting sued by Logan Paul and his defamation you know his erors emissions which is also called media insurance he went and bought it a few years ago thought he had defamation coverage because that's literally what he does right he needs that coverage because he's always
talking about other people and and Bad actors he got sued he tendered it to his insurance company and they said Oh but you don't have defamation coverage his broker Completely failed him because he didn't get him the proper insurance so I think does that answer your question I mean the LLC is like if you're making some money because here's the reason for an LLC it's to protect your assets right so if you get sued and you have an LLC it only touches the assets the assets that are in the LLC which is usually not very
much right maybe some cash flow sometimes it's a few thousand dollar but if you own a Home or you have a 41 K or you you know maybe your parents left you you know real estate those all can be touched in a lawsuit if someone sues you they're going to come after those assets and so do you want it kind of protected behind this Veil that the LLC provides for you so let's unpack a couple things deeper so I love the LLC advice if you're sitting on assets you definitely need it or if you get
to around $2,000 a month sure give or take definitely um get some Professionalization to your Creator business your online business get an LLC set up um and then you might want to consider Insurance you mentioned the coffeezilla story maybe take a few steps back to just frame the context of what happened and how you're pulling principles out of that that we can learn from in regards to protecting ourselves with insurance defamation things like that sure so a couple years ago Logan Paul launched this product Called crypto Zoo and it was supposed to be like sort
of a game that you could play and you could hatch eggs and the eggs would give you money and it it sounded really cool but as more and more time went by it's just never launched so millions of people lost millions of dollars right giving him money and it you know it's it's it's a volume proposition probably each person was like 500 or thousand and it's just Vol it just ballooned into this Huge amount coffee Zella you know is an investigative YouTuber and he does these kind of very big very in-depth investigations that take months
you know he interviews everybody he's very thorough he's very very precise because he doesn't want to say something that's not true because truth is a defense and defamation so Logan Paul even came out and said oh thank you so much for bringing this to my attention you know I'm definitely going to refund people I'm still going to launch the game it's a year and a half almost two years later the game is still not launched so Coffey Zella um you know I I think he left it alone and then Logan Paul filed a complaint and
this is what he did he filed in federal court which does not allow for anti-s slap motions so anti-s slap motions say that you know public figures if they get sued right like well they have less protection right because They're a public figure they don't have the same rights of privacy that you know like our family members right like my my husband would have much more right to privacy than I would right because I I'm on camera I speak at a different places but a a really famous person has less protection so anti-s slap motions
were basically put into place so that people you know their their freedom of speech would be protected that they could bring things against famous people and not you Know worry about getting in trouble anyway if he had five in state law coffeella could have filed an anti-s slap motion and said I have my my freedom of speech I can say these things about you they're that are true right they're not untrue and he could have gotten the case dismissed but because it's in federal court federal courts don't have anti-s slap motion and Logan Paul has
very deep pockets as we know Prime has done very well I mean it's Gone up and down right maybe not so well now but uh it'll probably do better now that they launch lunch EV um but I think and so coffee Zella went to his insurance and said okay I have this defamation claim protect me pay for my attorneys and they're like no you don't have defamation coverage so now cof Zella is going to have to probably pay six to seven figures in legal fees because it's very expensive to defend yourself it's very cheap to
file a Complaint in the US and that's the beauty and Nightmare of living here you can sue and be sued by every anybody and so I think um this is a cautionary tale as to why you should have media Insurance make sure that it covers defamation I mean I actually am you know I have advised two clients this week talking to them about defamation because they are big channels and they do reaction videos and reaction videos are really interesting because people think Well it's fine right but it's really not fine I mean YouTube will allow
copyright strikes if you use someone else's video and YouTube just doesn't get involved they have you figure it out right so I could put it you know anybody could put a copyright strike on you and then you have to go figure out what to do with that person that put the strike so that you can get it removed I mean that we're getting off topic but um so that's kind of why every reaction Channel or people Who do reviews should have media insurance this is especially relevant if you're talking about other people which is a
huge Niche reaction videos people reacting or talking about celebrities or and all kinds of different niches and and one of the things that maybe they pick up on the street is like well if I say allegedly then I'm all good is it enough to just say allegedly and sometimes they're like you know they they'll put It on visual on the screen dog pack 404 talking about Mr Beast you know of course is going to throw in allegedly is allegedly enough I don't know about enough but it helps I say allegedly a lot as an attorney
you know until it's been proven in a court of law in by a jury or judge like you can't really say this person is X Y and Z um you can always say it's my opinion right that also helps but I always tell my clients try to stay with the truth you know if You really stay with the truth then if you do end up getting sued or go to court then that's your protection right a lot this applies to fair use right people just slap fair use on videos thinking oh I can use this
person's video because I put fair use on it but actually fair use is a defense in litigation like it's if when you get sued you can try to explain it but fair use is very complicated there are so many elements to it it usually has to be Educational it can be a satire it really has to you can't make money from it which is a hard case for most YouTubers because their videos typically you know if if they're monetized makes them money and so that's a hard defense to have right unless and and I think
maybe that's why dog pack allegedly states that his videos are not monetized right like he's turned off monetization but I you know I know there are tools out there that can check but maybe that's Why he turned off monetization as well because he wants to use that as a defense well I know that there's this conversation can evolve I do want to talk about copyright and fair use um more but if we're now talking about an insurance and depending on your Niche even if you're a tech reviewer or a product reviewer of any kind there's
the case of MKBHD talking about this I think rabbit AI tool or whatnot yes that was what I was hinting at I didn't want to Call him out but yes that was what I was talking about and his honest review truthful review um may or may not have tanked the product there was also many other reviews he's just by and large the largest um Creator probably speaking on it so that speaks into if depending on the size of your channel and that's I I think some creators might be thinking about that they're like well I'm
not mkb PhD I'm not coffeezilla they have the same Coffeezilla Niche let's say they're reacting calling out scams or they're doing something like that or they have a a tech Channel or they're doing some other product reviews Health Products other things you you want to be thinking about some right insurances including defamation again at almost any size of Channel I think so I mean you know I think there are channels out there that probably don't have to worry about it Right like I could imagine there's some drawing channels or like bullet Journal like like very
kind of neutral things I feel like are fine um I don't tell everybody to get media insurance I really have to kind of look at their their their content and their Channel and and I think the advantage of also being a Creator myself is I understand this business really well um and um reminds me I I need to tell you my my Taylor Swift story in a little bit I had A client come to me wanting to to do a tailor Swift thing so maybe we can loop back to it go back I made a
note but yeah um but I think there are certainly channels that don't need it I think you need general liability because general liability is just in it cheap general liability is maybe ,000 doll a month I mean a year a year like depending on what state you're in but it's very um easy for most creators to have that media insurance I think gets to be a Little more maybe it's a couple thousand and but if if you rise to the level where you are giving reviews on products or talking about other people then really think
about it I I bet you most of the bigger channels out there have it but it's it's sort of a case bye case right like if if you're you could be a small Channel I mean I have I have clients who have like 100,000 or 200,000 but they're making six six or seven figures a year doing other stuff they Have courses they have products like depending on what size your business is because the bigger you get you just have a Target on your back right like people you're going to upset people people you're you know
there might be people in your audience who don't like what you say or what you do or what you stand for any of that stuff and and can come after you to try to cancel you or or sue you and So just Landing the plane on this conversation related to coffeezilla it's actually surprising to me I totally understand how his break his broker didn't just fail his his broker terribly failed because defamation insurance or media insurance would be like the most important thing knowing coffee zilla's work if he had the right Insurance then the insurance
would cover the six to seven figures the potentially a million dollars in legal Fees that is going to happen in this situation right insurance would cover it and well there's always an asterisk right Insurance tries to not cover like that's literally their business model right but if if they do a evaluation and calilla didn't do anything terribly egregious or grossly neg negligent on his part right where he like maliciously knew what he was saying was wrong right like that's that's one of the elements that they have to prove with defamation Was like did he maliciously
say untruths about Logan Paul which I don't think it's is is there then they would have to cover it now there might be a deductible like could there be a $50,000 deductible or something like you know before they will start covering or 100 thousand I don't know like every policy is so different but I've because I used to work at Disney and Sky Dan and BuzzFeed I had to review very very big policies for media insurance and so I kind of Understand the the scope of it his he has a claim against his broker I
think he's suing him I think cof Zella said in one of his videos like he has a smaller Channel right now called V void Zella and so I think he talked about how he's suing his broker and rightly so because again if you pay a $50,000 deductible but for a million dollars illegal fees like you're gonna be pumped to do that all day long and I did see him launch merch to help his community rally and Right and is and in this situation I think this is sometimes what might frustrate listeners and the public in
general is that when you're a giant if you're Logan Paul or you're Miss Beast you have so much money and so much legal behind you even if right and and I you're the expert but even noticing how meticulous and scrupulous coffeezilla is and what he does or doesn't say and how he says it like to your point even if the end result is his innocence and his Freedom from it he was drugged through potentially a million dollars of cost in the process simply because of the opponent he's up against in this this case correct and
so that's sort of maybe the fear out there and the re the reason for the insurance because you maybe would be shocked that some tech company gets upset because your product review went viral and even though if you are still Vindicated uh ultimately you could face A lot of expense in the middle should this happen am I tracking oh totally I mean and and and that's it's sort of the reason why I left Hollywood to come protect creators because big companies big celebrities with Deep Pockets will always usually win because they will just drown you
in legal fees right and and I've had clients who were completely innocent right like I I the facts weren't even remotely there but they had to pay $100,000 in legal fees Just to get out and file bank for bankruptcy right like that was actually the real reason they got out was because they file for bankruptcy and so show the court that there was nothing left to yet and and those those types of cases and clients break my heart and it's why I'm so such a strong Advocate to getting kind of these really kind of minor
when you think about it right I I know for most creators are cost sensitive like a thousand or 2,000 they're like whoa but Like it it's the just the in case right like in case it goes wrong are you willing to have $600,000 or or six six or seven figures of legal fees I mean I I I told a client this week who's launching a big product I said you better put a legal legal fund aside because we're we're going to get sued but it's okay right because if you're doing big business you're going to
get sued I used to work at a private Equity Fund and we used to get sued a Lot and I would get stressed out because I was a head attorney and my boss was like why are you so stressed and I said because we have like seven or eight open litigations against us and he would say well if you're not getting sued then you're not doing big business and I think Jimmy is showing us that right now right he's a $700 million Corporation and he's getting sued left and right that's a whole another mindset if
you're not getting sued you're not doing big Business um before we move on just going a little bit deeper in defamation let's flip it I know and I've talked to in different masterminds of business groups that I'm in that what if you're in the position of a former employee or we've seen in different organizations I think they said it was amical I don't think there was any legal things between say Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens but we've seen where maybe like a talent leaves or something what if a former employee like Makes a video or
makes statements with lies and half truths about the company that they worked for what would your advice be in regards to defamation or just ignoring it and moving on I heard you say that Mr Beast in your video will probably release a statement to my knowledge he has not yet and I just wonder and some people go Mr BEAST's downfall is here because dogp but dog pack has gotten maybe over 20 million views if not more now but compared to Mr Beast influence you're like yeah that's a lot and it is crazy and among some
circles it's like no yeah millions of people could be you know Mr Beast is exposed like his true colors are out there perhaps like maybe that's what we're seeing but then when we think about the scale he's at could he just ignore this and so that's a that's that's one case study but maybe for the different size of a media company or something you know you have like maybe a Former employee make a YouTube video which anybody can do now lots of BuzzFeed people did with lies and half truths what would you maybe follow up
with on that or advice regarding defamation wow this is a great question I actually was writing a LinkedIn post about this you know I I have this great saying that I like to say if I do my job properly you guys will never hear about this so I do a lot of PR crisis management for YouTubers This year I've worked on two big ones and you guys never heard about it because I tell my clients no comment is an okay answer now most creators like oh my God I have to make a video I have
to respond I have to tell my side of the story and but here's the thing YouTube has a very short memory they're like Guppies right like as you can see with Logan Paul I mean how many times has Logan Paul been cancelled but he just keeps coming back like a zombie that Cannot be killed right like he just keeps coming back and I said in my video I said you know I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't say anything it's it's really dependent on his team right his legal team and his PR team I think
the reason why he didn't come out with um a statement was probably they knew a CL this class action or some lawsuit was coming and once you're in the crosshairs of litigation you shouldn't say anything because anything you say get can get Used in a court of law right so I would say to to go back to your question right about um well what if an employee does this and so there are two two paths like you can go after the employee send a cease and dis like you know Jimmy did with dog pack they
can ignore it and then just keep doing it and then your other alternative is to sue him right but I said in a short video I said Jimmy will not sue him because you know why because Discovery releases information on both sides like imagine the emails that are in Mr BEAST's company the things that they have said the things that they have done all of that will get exposed as dirty laundry so he's not gonna Sue dog pack because he doesn't want that to come out he's gonna just leave it alone he's going to hope
it dies down it you know it it was starting to die down until this class action came up right and I have a hot take on that class Class action actually um but I think it'll die down again I think people just always latch on to some big news some other Creator is going to you know do something terrible they're going to come out with some terrible apology video something else is going to take their attention away and this is the the case in Hollywood as well I mean you look at BL Blake Lively kind
of getting cancelled she hasn't come out and given a response you know when I worked in Hollywood it was always no comment we just don't respond and we just move on and that's what I believe will happen here um so if I was I guess advising a company that was dealing with kind of the same situation and by the way my big Creator clients are companies right right after the whole thing with dog pack I had a big client who was exiting a client an employee and they said well we need a you know a
sever agreement and a a a a uh waiver of all Claims which is what I wanted in place and in that agreement I in the non-disparagement provision I made sure to add the word video it wasn't there before but I added there because because now I'm thinking wow all these ex employees who leave YouTubers like they're all going to do what dog pack is doing so I tell my clients this do good business treat people well like don't do stupid things if you don't want it it to get out in the public and be sued
one Day then just be a good person that's really my advice to my clients did that answer your it did and in summary it might be like um one if there is a kind of a trans transition consider the exit in regards to uh Severance uh disparagement those details uh previous to that do good business take care of people of course realizing that even if you do that people can do Shady stuff on the side or and and so you're doing your best and and then but with that of Course have a healthy company culture
and it seems like a lot of light was shine inside of Mr BEAST's business allegedly uh that might not have been a super healthy uh culture over there in certain aspects but then also lastly that that no comment is also um perhaps the the way to lean especially maybe in smaller situations I heard a guy named Alex Heros also talk about that as you're growing and you have a Target on your back um that there's going to be People making videos about you or making different things and he said he responds if if they're generally
if they're smaller um he's not gonna talk he's not gonna respond because I mean it would be outrageous for Mr Beast to also make a video he would shine so much light on dog pack an Inc an incredible amount like so dog pack got 20 million views or more if Mr Beast made a video that would be 200 million and the whole algorithm would spin it up so so no comment might Be the best policy yes I totally agree this episode is brought to you by streamyard streamyard is our go-to platform here at think media
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are included just go to stream stre withth think.com that is stream withth think.com you have a hot take there is a class action lawsuit from some individuals that were part of the Mr Beast games which is an Amazon production at that level with a multi-million dollar prize and it's a huge project and there's already so much smoke around Mr Beast regarding Ava Chris Tyson and and dog pack and now this what's your hot take so you know I I even had the hook to my YouTube video it was going to be like is this the
end of Mr Beast and I was gonna say yes maybe yes right but after reading the complaint I'm not so Sure and I am the only like I think I'm the only YouTube attorney who can sort of make this conclusion because I've worked in Hollywood for 16 years I the lead attorney on 22 feature films many TV shows when we put an actor or crew member under contract we don't call them employees they are independent contractors there's no world where they are an employee of the studio right or the network so for these plaintiffs to
claim that they they Are employees and therefore they're allowed to do this class action because the reason why they're doing employment claims is because they want this class action but I don't think it's there I really don't think it's there and I was shocked you know I was reading the complaint actually last night and I was like darn it because this is there goes my video because I was gonna have some like very outrageous like oh my God he's going to Like you know really be taken down with this huge class action but I don't
know and again this is my opin my opinion but we don't know how it's going to pan out but there might be a situation where this gets thrown out or it gets settled somehow it probably will get settled at the end of the day 90% of cases never go to trial they always get settled Jimmy Mr Beast is going to throw a lot of money at this and it's gonna or Amazon actually Amazon I believe is Probably more real responsible here you do you remember the story you when Netflix and Amazon were both courting Mr
Beast wanting to him to do a show with them and the reason why Amazon won was because they agreed to give him free reign 100% creative in production control Netflix was like no we need to be you know in charge I'm sure Netflix is patting themselves on the back right now but like Amazon gave him too much free reign and the biggest question the Biggest question I had was why was a who even filed do you know that in most production agreements for Studios there's an mandatory arbitration provision in there so it makes me think
this was Mr BEAST's production contract and not Amazon's so a lot of people fell asleep at at the wheel here when when they're putting this together I think they thought oh this is going to be like one of Mr be's videos you know and we're just going to we're going to function And and go at it with those you you know uh processes in place but when you have a thousand or 2,000 contestants and this is a $5 million you know prize a hundred million budget like you can't you can't think in the same way
yeah it does seem like the scale of what is allegedly been described as working at Mr Beast that's friends and family at Mid leadership levels and a little bit of chaos that they went to a scale with that that really broke down so people aren't Getting water or Tamp or right the things that they need and as much as people also want to vilify Mr Beast I do think he's going crazy fast but you know his intent I'm not thinking is for this to happen but you're had a scale that just broke down yes saying
that I just want to clarify you said mandatory arbitration would have been in there um you know hoping to just follow and Define terms so so it also seems crazy at level That it also speaks that he was maybe punching even above his weight class which is a pretty big weight class um to if it was a Mr Beast production to be missing that what does that mean and who who would you hold responsible on his team for being like how could that not have even been in there with the contracts these contestants were signing
now I I will put a disclaimer that I you know I don't I haven't seen those contracts right so I this is just a a Guess now maybe there was an AR arbitration provision but my guess is there wasn't and most Studios and networks and and just companies in general will have an arbitration provision because they don't want cases to go to trial because you don't want a Johnny Depp Amber herd situation where you get10 million in punitive damages because juries can award those an arbitrator will not right an arbitrator is usually a retired judge
who thinks Very um evenly and neutrally but when you put you know when you put a case in front of like just lay people they're like yeah we want to give you know him like $10 million because he suffered at her you know Johnny and Amber her hands here two things could have happened one there was no arbitration provision or maybe there was one and they just ignored it anyway so the next thing that will happen will be very interesting right like what's going to be filed by By Mr BEAST's team is it a motion
to dismiss you know is it is it is it an answer right if it's is it a motion to move to move it to arbitration like we'll see in the next few weeks like what's going to happen because he he does have to reply to this soon um I think yeah maybe it's 90 days maybe it's 60 days it's it is it is in California so that's what's interesting um you know there's a part of me I like I would love for this to go to trial I want to go Like I'll I'll go and
like because I'm in California I would probably in La I would go watch it you know but I um there's a lot of question marks here as to what's going to happen I think um arbitration Provisions tend to help the companies so when I am on the Creator side I tend to take those out right I tend to want the trials I tend to want the jury trials because the Davids of the world have a better time in court the goliaths in of the world really want It to be sealed in in front of an
arbitrator okay let's touch on copyright in fair use one quick question if someone's channel gets demonetized do you have any advice for trying to get remonetized quickly if you feel like it's been unfair for the reason that the channel got demonetized well so this just happened to one of my clients a few weeks ago and Do you want to hear the details of what happened so my Cent my client um is a kind of very upand cominging painting Channel I think they're about to hit a 100,000 on YouTube soon but they really got their start
on Instagram and then they always put their content up on Instagram first this is where they tripped up they wait a month or two before they put it on YouTube you know I tell everybody if you're going to cross post do it immediately right because What happens is these Bad actors these thieves took their videos and put it on YouTube first YouTube doesn't care it's YouTube only cares like who puts it up first and then you know and then their systems like okay that's the IP holder so anybody else who puts it up after is
the thief so my client they like went off be clear so they're an upand cominging painting Channel they were crushing on Instagram with vertical videos yes and wanting to also do YouTube shorts right but there was a delay so they're just stacking their growth on Instagram and Bad actors download their content and start uploading it on YouTube and YouTube favors whoever does it first assuming the first person to upload it on their platform which they probably have an they have an isolated perspective they're not scanning what's happening on Instagram and meta and so now they
think that the whoever uploaded it first and The copyright system would work to then scan when somebody else does it that that's the person correct that is actually pirating the content or re-uploading it when in fact these Bad actors just beat the upload of someone else's content to the platform am I tracking the story exactly okay back to you okay so then they went camping came back to this email from YouTube and it had already been like a There was a deadline there was like I think a three- week deadline that they had to respond
to this to to the demonetization so they had already lost half the time they call me panicked and so the process went that we had to appeal this we had to make a video um and then we had to fill out all these things right so I actually drafted a script script for them to do to make the appeals video and we started filling out um all all the kind of information they Needed right to to support their case now I very recently met someone that works at YouTube and I just asked him like Hey
this is happening could you point me to the right person you know that we could talk to or we could send this video to like I was just asking to see if we can like kind of you know speed up the process because we're going to miss the deadline soon and he very graciously like just and I explained I said this is my client's Content like you can see this is his face it is my client's content like there was really very little to dispute here right other than the fact that he uploaded too late
and the guy at YouTube The Executive was very kind and he's he he he sent it to his team and his team was like okay and they just turned on the monetization now maybe that's like cheating a little bit I wasn't expecting him to do that by the way I just was asking him to point me to the right Person um so I I didn't see it play out right I didn't see the whole process play out but I think what this case study shows is if you can show that it's your content right that's
you own IP you're clearly not stealing someone else's IP because I think that's one of the biggest reasons why YouTube demonetizes right is if they think you're stealing someone's content so if you can show for any other you know Creator out there who you know doesn't Maybe reach out to me or like you know does have has has to do it on their own I think you have a pretty good chance of showing it now if you stole someone else's content like that's where it gets hairy right that's is why I say don't steal people's
content because I have had clients like I have one right now I'm trying he he got his his his channel was deleted and it was because he took music from a very famous you know and now we're having to go back to Sony And ask him if they will take away the strikes so that's a long process right that I'm kind of in the middle of right now um don't get to the point where you get three strikes right and and it's not resolved because it can be heartbreaking I'm sure you know so many people
who've lost their channels and it's like big channels and they can't get it back and for listeners to be clear if you get three copyright strikes now you're channel is in the crosshairs for Termination oftentimes s days later after that third strike this kind of gets into this crazy world of fair use um we use a term encouraging people that we're living in a world where it's pretty wild that people are making careers with OPC other people's content not OP Naughty by Nature that's something different but OPC other people's content and and thousands tens of
thousands of Creators are making incredible amounts of money per year talking about the Lord of the Rings on Amazon Prime or Severance on Apple TV and using clips and photos movie review channels and then people also political commentary taking news Clips reacting to presidential debates it goes on and on and I think it's always a light bulb moment even for your average creator that they're out here trying to make talking head videos come up with Original content and you know struggle for views when and sometimes feels unfair and there's a lot of criticism people will
get is it I think Sniper Wolf has been incredibly criticized for creating lazy content yes um even copying out react channels allegedly uh for you know ultimately not just doing react like there's reaction content there's like levels of how lazy it could be but all but but let's kind Of go at a high level in your definition when someone says what is fair use content what does that mean and why does that apply to YouTube if we if we work through this for listeners that are new to this whole world what is fair use content
um I'm happy to explain it um I you know since you brought up sniperwolf I mean that's something that's very not her but the situation is very dear and near to my heart part because I Represent Jack's films and I also represent ailan and you know they're a common enemy right and um I really don't like people who steal people's content because it's it's work that they they have done I mean you know creators track and give the context because listeners might not know what we're talking about so so so Sniper Wolf you know her
has been kind of notorious for taking videos from Tik Tok and and what really kind of made people upset With her was that she would take people's handles off like Not only was she stealing people's content she was like not giving them credit and so just like thousands upon thousands of small creators just weren't getting the credit like she was just making these videos with millions of views making money off of their work basically and she you know she she would claim or you know reaction videos would claim well this is fair use right because
I'm transforming it but She's not really transforming that's one of the elements of fair use where you have to transform it like saying ew gross that's not transforming a video right like really transforming a video is is something different or doing a critique on it like a film film critic right so Jack's films uh created a second Channel called J Jack jacks films and so his goal was to take her videos basically call her out you know on her actions and then give credit to all the Creators that she was wasn't getting credit for so
Jack kind of rose as this like almost Robin hoodes like hero you know saving you know those because he had he has a bigger Channel he he could give like highlight the Injustice that was happening last year in October I guess well it's been like a year now like um sniperwolf decided to show up at Jack's home and live stream the front of his house to her 5 million Instagram followers and this terrified Jack and His wife um I immediately hopped on this I made a video about this about how wrong it was and this
was right when I started my law from last year and I just very kind of like I did not expect anything to happen by the way I said Jack if you're like if anybody if if you need help I I would love to support you and that night you wrote me an email and said well if you need me I know you probably think this is a scam but I could like verify myself so I think in One of his videos still in the description like if you look at the very bottom it has the
word Yeti which is my dog's name because I was like go ahead and put Yeti you know like show me it's you and it really was him and so I helped him for several months I can't really go into the details of like what happened there but let it be known that that is not okay like what we do here in VI in video on the internet should stay there it should never show up in real Life I mean this is it was really incredibly terrifying for them that she showed up at their house and
then for months and months after because people figured out his address they would be sending him packages I mean they would get hundreds of packages and they would never open it because they're like terrified like what's is are these from her fans you know like so they just it was really a terrible situation and so that's and the internet Term is doxing correct yes it's doxing yeah so if if and this gets into kind of bullying or harassment which we could Circle back to but this kind of a case study of what you're saying is
when it comes to fair use Sniper Wolf was not transforming or really adding critique there's a difference between transforming adding critique or just reacting there's levels to it right let's go high level again though what what is fair use and how do You do it the right way um in fact Tyler and our community said yeah what do you do if you know your content falls under fair use but has a claim against it that's maybe two different questions so let me hit you with that in a second okay what is good fair use that
creators could lead into leveraging other people's content appropriately to avoid potential legal issues I will say that this area is very tricky like when you if you go just by pure law it's actually Very hard to you know be protected by fair use let's say now historically you know film critics they can usually without the IR or the you know the scrutiny of the studios telling them know they could very easily show clips from a movie and then talk about it right because that's that's that's one of the the elements of fairies you can you
can be a Critic and give a fair your opinion as to like oh how is this film right so you can use The clips from it so there's kind of history and context even pre social media for film critics and that's a huge Niche on YouTube if we go a little bit deeper on that what about news because pre YouTube news would have pulling clips from public places to talk about it because they're commentating on that and news has a huge opportunity on YouTube to start a news channel is it the same there's historical context
but can I just you know grab down Download the debate between Donald Trump and kamla Harris and then just react to it and chop it up fair use it always depends on you know what is the position of the studios or the networks right like if they want to come after you they can I mean at the end of the day they own the IP if they don't like what you you're doing they can take it down now just from a pure logistic standpoint like when I was at Disney we we rarely actively went after
Violators because the sure volume of Ip violators would be in the billions so it's usually when someone would bring it to us and they would say this is very egregious or this is like making you look really bad like you guys should go after them so it's really like there's that there's that consideration but also you know when I tell clients who are creators who want to use Clips I say two to three seconds it's not bulletproof but I really think like if you keep it Less than five seconds that's so short it's very short
you just mean that's I mean what if you want to react to A Whole 30 second to 60 seconds of audio as well again it really depends on the IP holder right like the IP holder can come after you and say no they can they can do a strike they can do a claim right kind of to to your question but a lot of what I'm seeing and and and and and I don't work at a News Network I think a lot of times news networks are Not so precious as precious as maybe Studios with
their films Studios make money from their films right they don't want you to watch it they don't like they wouldn't allow a whole film to be shown on YouTube right because they want you to like go pay for their app or like go in the movie theaters so it's all all comes down to like what's the monetary consideration for news it's such a short thing right like if they really want to capture in the first 24 hours like then They have other content that they're making so they care a little less I think news networks
do that's been my experience compared to film and TV but at the end of the day what I want creators to realize is whoever content you're using they own it they can come and claim it and strike you if they want to you and then you have to like go back and forth with them as to explaining like why you think it's fair use sometimes you know I I've helped clients Where this happens you know there was a biology Channel they show a lot of like animal videos and my client used a couple we went
to them because they they they placed a strike we went to them and we said what would you like this is such an important thing like what is what do you need what do you want right this is what I always pass the other side when I'm making a deal they said well I want credit and I want some money so we ended up paying him a few hundred and he Removed the strike so it's always like are you you know are you using it fairly are you giving them credit you can go get a
license like that's what some creators do like they just go pay for a license and then you're protected right like you won't explain that like a license from who in what example well so that that example with like the biology channel right with the animal Clips like he he he sells it to people like he's like yeah you want to use my videos $50 You know or people take his animal clips for their stuff yes and he's like what I want I want credit and I want some money as opposed to people just using it
without giving me credit or giving me money got it yeah so I would say and then that's a written agreement of some kind yes in each case unlik a communication for that how do they reach out to him and without people because YouTube now if I go into the copyright area of YouTube I see um People will download and re-upload think media videos now honestly a lot of times I won't track it down because they'll get like four views so I'm like okay just sitting out there sitting over there there's other times where they'll also
take a clip of it and because I think probably a lot of creators that are really in this probably have a much more liberal mindset towards Fair years he like yeah I mean you gave two minutes of my video but you put I mean whatever I'm I'm and I and and there's kind of a and I would fall into this Camp if I tried to take all the monetization for the hard work someone put into a video that in my opinion I'm like yeah I'm just like a little cliping it and they cited that whatever
I'm not gonna try that the reverse of that often times I believe has the the negative public opinion of when you only use a few seconds and you make a video essay or a YouTube documentary and then somebody With a tiny clip says they they get the whole thing you're like yeah right man look how high quality High effort how much energy they put into that but you know this is the murky World any thoughts on kind of the mindset I'm going through here ask me what the question is sorry I guess it's just um
YouTube in the back end is GNA show that somebody uploaded this guy's animal Clips how can how does he follow up to actually get the money And get the credit once maybe the video is already public how does he even create the communication with which to license the clip clips of his animal content well I'm saying to do it proactively right like if and my client took several you know clips from this biology Channel and I think it was because he did it several times that it kind of like got on the radar of of
this biology Channel I'm saying before you even use someone's video go to them and Say Hey I want to use these five videos I'm going to use like 10 seconds each or something be very specific and I'd like to pay you $150 and and sometimes people will say yes right because they just want to get paid for their work now some people will say will say no right and they're like no you just stole my content and and you can't convince them to take the strike off that's why if you had done the license Beforehand
then you would be protected against this happening I will say as sort of a not a catchall not making Bulletproof if you like make sure to credit people I mean be a good person about it right like credit people's content that you're using sometimes that will be enough to not anger somebody to come after you but it's it's not always like that's you know that means YouTube doesn't care right if you took someone's IP you took someone's IP like you saying Well I I credited them they don't care like YouTube doesn't care and IP holder
might not care they just care that you took their content I think the last thing on just this category I love going deep deep and you're adding massive value and if you're listening to this um leave a review and if you're watching this you know the like button helps the YouTube algorithm and let me know if you want to have Tyler back on I certainly do because we're probably 10% through my Questions but two questions there is a massive Niche on YouTube called faceless channels and YouTube automation are you feel here okay and then there's
also maybe I'd say like there's like lazy cash grab faceless channels and then there's like high quality I I want to call them video essays or yeah video essays or YouTube documentaries so and these are some of my favorite channels people covering Diddy right now wow a lot of smoke around that situation and they're making um they're pulling photos they're altering the photo you know animating them they're pulling Clips they're P pulling old clips of Justin Bieber and Diddy talking and then they're cutting in their commentary they're writing an entirely original script they're scoring the
music on it and they're pulling clips from Entertainment Tonight and some Niche documentary and they're Downloading a video and they're uploading you know a 32 minute a 47 minute deep dive like you said earlier we're talking about film commentary happens all the time but now you're talking about someone's likeness AKA a sha Diddy Combs and they're um you know making these these big these videos about it now I also these channels can be they're making 10K 20K 30k or more a month from YouTube ad revenue and then eventually they start getting brandals and brands are
sponsoring these videos right here's my guess it's not only my guess I'm certain in 99% of these cases they didn't get permission from Entertainment Tonight to use that clip from years ago that's really the OPC other people's content type of a thing but they're trying to hit all the different fair use checklist transformative lots of different sources not just one um lots Of commentary nothing of exceptional length in of any one source and also if it is it's broken up a little bit at the beginning a little bit at the end so let's hit that
one first is that also just somewhat of a risky proposition um and like you said fair use is also going to take place in the court it doesn't even take place on YouTube right if someone's doing that do you have any advice for navigating those Waters if you're trying To make high quality content but you're not asking but you are crediting so whether it's your screen recording and you see the channel or it says source and it says the channel and you're really being thoughtful about essentially having your digital bibliography your digital index of references
and you're making high quality video essays or documentary any thoughts on that and also if that is maybe lucrative now but might get more Scrutinized later like if it's risky and Shaky Ground to be building on or if if you think it's you know it's a good YouTube If you will business model and if they're going deep on fair use a lot of these channels are doing very well and I think they're doing it right because they're crediting people but I'm curious your take I mean these are such a good questions Sean um I think
that it is like what I hinted at earlier Right it's a um resources and policing issue for these networks right could they they would need thousands upon thousands of people to sit there and go after these you know YouTube channels that are making the clips but to what end right yeah like they maybe could get them to take it down but like I think the resources to be to to police this would be really really costly I think at the end of the day like because I've been on the studio Side I think the calculation
we would take is well that's old content right like we're if we're using the the the you know this example of um Sean combes um and they're bringing you know like people they they give credit so they're like oh it's like you know Entertainment Weekly or or or what whatever show right I think most of the studios and networks like probably won't go after people who just take little Clips here and there it's again it's the whole movie it's the Whole TV show it's the replacing them right that consideration is not happening here right I
don't think they're being replaced because this old content now one might argue and I don't it's just it I I actually think as we get bigger and when I say we you know I Believe YouTube is the new Hollywood I believe all the content is going to be made over here it's going to be like you know all the studios are trying to figure out how how to come into the Creator space I mean I'm high level advising private Equity Funds how how how to come you know invest in this space everybody's trying to figure
out how to be a Creator right and um I actually think with the title wave of more content that's going to be made on YouTube it's going to be even harder for them to police it might even get a little less risky right you know you were talk saying about the risk because imagine how many YouTube channels there Are there's going to be in five years or 10 years I mean this is my kids world right like this is going to be their future it's how they take in content um I think it's going to
be so hard to police and unless you know YouTube's system but but I don't think these these networks are going to be feed feeding old videos you know I think the record labels they can do it very easily they can feed their their you know their music into the algorithm and they can do Automatic you know claims which I have a big I have a client who has a big piano um Channel on YouTube and he covers a lot of big songs like Coldplay or you know like Taylor Swift and he just gets automatic claims
and he doesn't care because he's he's getting millions of views so he's okay sharing 30 or 40% with the label because it's their IP right and so if unless there's more sophisticated detection you know but but that requires a manual aspect right like Are the networks going to upload all of their content and and and so that it can be you know matched in content ID with YouTube I mean I just feel like that's that's really onerous and I don't know that that's going to happen I don't know if I went a lot of off
track there but that's a great um answer and I know we both have a a hard stop in a second and um we uh I look forward to a future conversation yes I would love to come back four or five future conversations Because we got through like two of my questions and I know we went down many rabbit holes I'm also would encourage if you're listening on audio visit us over on the YouTube channel um and drop your maybe future questions in the comments because I know this is a big um area and I do
have one final question for you but shout out your stuff so so if anybody wants to connect with you I want to thank you for um you know this incredibly insightful convo but uh how Can people connect with you follow what you're doing if they need help sure um so you can find me Tyler Chow the creators attorney on YouTube um on Instagram um I am not really on Tik Tok because I I don't really like it um um but I'm I'm huge on LinkedIn right now you know I really want to ask people if
you're not on LinkedIn it's such a white space like the numbers are something like 200 million users in the US but only a 100,000 are actively writing Consistently and consistently is just once a month so I did this 90day challenge where I wrote every day and my Law Firm exploded like I had so many inbounds from CEOs and Founders I mean two of my biggest clients came from LinkedIn so really think about it and and I write almost every day over there so like if you like the advice or the you know information I'm giving
here please follow me there and also um you know the news that I want I want to Share is I'm going to be launching a community soon with Mighty networks because I you know Sean I'm becoming too exclusive only the biggest creators can work with me right now and I don't like that so I wanted to start a community where smaller creators can come in and I can teach them you know everything but my love is to help creators become businesses you know the community is going to be called a seven figure Creator I believe
you know the biggest Fallacy that most YouTubers have is they tell me Well YouTube is my business and I have to tell them no YouTube is the marketing arm of your business you're the business you're the media company but a lot of creators don't that light bulb hasn't gone on for them yet but I do this for a lot of my big creators you know I'm fractional CEO and I help them grow out their businesses so that they can be acquired you know I'm currently helping one of my Creator YouTubers sell His YouTube channel right
now and we're negotiating with private Equity Funds it's going to be in the 8 figures so if you mature and grow your business and have diverse revenue streams because that's what the funds really want you know do you have a course do you have a newsletter do you have you know an app do you have physical products like that's that's what they want to look at you can't just have your YouTube channel because I I really think Reliance on Purely relying on AdSense and and brand deals is a recipe for Burnout and if I could
just say one last thing like I I and I really think in thinking about yourself as a business creators need to have systems in place like I didn't put any systems in place the first six months and the last six months I've just been dying and really paying the price for it and um I started you know I I never had a CRM before I was like what's a CRM and then I got Introduced to high level which is an amazing product and they two of my clients work with them and they make six figures
in affiliates with them I was like what what is this it's replaced like about $1,000 worth of software for me every month like I no longer use cendy or QuickBook or anything I mean you know like uh DocuSign that's the huge one because DocuSign is very expensive so it's replaced several softwares for me so that's my final Advice is think about getting an attorney and put put in some systems in your business because it will help automate things and and make it go uh faster so you can create content because that's what you're that's what
creators are good at well Tyler briefly with our one minute um check out show notes and links in the um show notes uh think media community and um thank you for adding so much value today in in a nutshell one of the emotions people Might be feeling right now is anxiety because there's so much opportunity but it's like whoa there's so much stuff I don't know and I don't want to get sued and I don't know if I'm set up right and I don't know like systems and I want to encourage listeners that's what we're
here for Tyler and I are here to help you you know subscribe keep learning keep growing I'm was curi from your curious from your perspective it sort of can feel like when you look at all this Stuff like man I just want to hunker down and like not try so what do you think the right mindset is you know in 30 to 60 seconds of being smart but like not being afraid um when it comes to all of this stuff that could get us distracted and maybe stop us from taking bold action realize that this
is the Future YouTube is the future you know traditional media is dying and if you have the courage to get on camera and put your story out there millions of People can see it that's the American dream I feel like it's so powerful and so beautiful these are details that like I say pay pay some people to be on your team and take care of these issues for you so that you can keep creating right that's how you take the anxiety out of out of the equation just have some good people you know by your
side helping you on this journey because you are going to get bigger if you you're consistently Uploading and you just press record as Sean likes to say like you're going in a year in five years you will be so glad you started your YouTube channel right I'm currently putting a YouTube channel in a trust for my clients kids it's going to be more valuable than real estate so just press record and just go that's my advice
