Realtors: These 6 hrs will teach you how to earn $20k per month

Every year I help hundreds and hundreds of Realtors to scale their income past $250,000 a year without spending thousands of dollars on marketing and advertising campaigns and without buying leads and so in this video I'm going to introduce you to 10 of them who are going to break down exactly how they've scaled their income past $220,000 a month quickly we're going to break down exactly how they're getting clients how They're servicing their clients all their lead generation secrets so that you can just copy them and start implementing everything you're going to learn in this video

and if you ever want to have a quick conversation about a potential coaching relationship like the one I have with the agents you're about to meet I'll throw a link in the description so let's get started grab something to write with you're going to get a ton of practical takeaways for you To implement right away give us an idea from a production standpoint what the last couple years has looked like for you yeah so I mean it's the market kind of turned it was horrible right um and then I kind of found you on YouTube

committed to that that was like 20 I did 27 transactions that year yeah um right just over five million volume um and then this year yeah this year I'm at like right at 23 24 transactions and I'm right hovering right around 5 million Again okay so you could double this year right I mean that's yeah kind of a goal yeah yeah and so you could get to 50 I think is is kind of where you're trying to get to is that right right right yeah 100% yeah it's amazing so that's uh what I want to

talk about right so so how is it that you've been able to scale your business and so before you we talk about what are you're doing now um I want I want the audience to be able to understand Bill some of the struggles That you went through early on that I think a lot of Agents probably deal with right now talk to me about that like what was the first year like what were you trying to do to get leads and generate clients and get listings and then we'll transition to what you're doing now that's

working yeah so I was actually I was always outbound prospecting I think it was just a little bit of delusion about like how much I really needed to do so um started Calling for sale by owners but is you know severe call reluctance you know like I mean just calling six was like an accomplishment you it takes a lot out of you and then um I saw an interview you did with somebody that's in my market and it was like a you know it was just a huge moment for me where he's saying he's having

you know 70 to 100 conversations a day and I'm calling I'm calling six for sale bers I wasn't even talking to six right and I was I felt Exhausted so that was kind of like an aha moment I was like I'm not doing enough you know yeah so I guess let's stay here for a second what um how did you buy into this idea I'm curious how how you because you're very fortunate what I mean by that is this how did you buy into the idea that if you're going to be successful in this business

of real estate sales that you're going to have to treat it like a sales business in other words you're Going to have to prospect that's the dirty word that you and I both know Bill most agents don't want to hear they don't want to accept they won't do it and they'll avoid it how did you as a brand new agent come into this with that mindset well so before I became an agent I actually started off thinking I was going to be Western and so you know like the wholesale side and everything so it was

lot like sending out yellow letters and things like that Um but obviously even once that happens you still need to know how to feel that phone call and I was at some point I came to turns with the fact that I was just avoiding it right so it's either or get off the pot so to speak yeah yeah well what would you say though to like agents um because it is the vast majority that would say like I'm curious how you would respond to the vast majority who would say Bill like no man I'm not

gonna I'm waiting for business I'm going to do social media I'm going to do I'm going to do everything but pick up the phone and call Strangers uh I don't want any part of that I don't believe that this is a sales business uh I'm a brand new agent and and I'm going to do it I want to do it on social media um what would you say to that agent I mean I would guess I would i' probably ask them how it's working for him yeah you know it's probably not working all that well

I I I did the whole thing like I was avoiding it in in several different ways thinking I was you know it's just busy work right you're still EX exhausted at the end of the day you just have nothing to show for it yeah so I think the first takeaway for agents to your point is like you we and this is where I I say this till I get blew in the face but it's like we have to accept the fact that real estate is a sales business why so many people push back on that

I I still scratch my head you you Know what people if when I post this on YouTube do you know how many people in the comments are going to say this isn't a sales business what are you talking about I'm like well let me think about this you have to go out there communic with people that you know communicate with people that you don't know go there and interview to list someone's house uh I don't know if this is in sales I don't know what it is why do you believe people push back on that

well I mean It's the same I me it's just like when I was calling for sale by owners right like I was so nervous I thought I was going to throw up right it took a lot of energy to to just call six of them right and then even if I was successful and someone agreed to you know I'm going to meet with them I had no idea what I was going to say so yeah it's just the thing is just exhausting and so it's you know it's a lot easier to to not do that

and then on top of that even once you start Calling it you today if I get in a slump I've had a slump a week and a half here like you know I'm calling s&es and it it can it can still feel like that so with not having a track record and you're you know it feels like you're spinning your wheels it's easy to discount it and stop doing it yeah yeah no doubt um all right so let's break down kind of what what it looks like today walk us through what your schedule looks like

like how much prospecting you're doing what does an Average week look like yeah so I get in the office at 7:30 I start calling by 8:00 um originally I started calling a lot of for sale by owners some expired and then absentees um end of last year I made a pretty heavy switch into absentee and circle prospecting um kind of intentionally and so I I'll Prospect from 8 to about 11 11:30 um and then it's launch and then it's servicing you know from like 1: to 3: and then appointment prep from there otherwise I'll hop

back on usually do some calls got it all right so let's let's get into this so first off yeah let's go back to the Strategic switch that you made from uh fsbos and expires to absentee and circle prospecting let's talk about that uh I seem to keep falling into this conversation quite a bit I'm curious from your perspective what made you uh what had you do the switch well so picking your clients right I mean for sale by owners are They were good to me like that was the first year I just felt your YouTube

plan right it was just like how am I going to get to 100K and then from there I'll up on coaching right so like that worked for me for a long time but then um you know here in some of your other videos talking about picking your clients and then also having business kind of coming back to you you and then you have enough experiences you work with a for sale by owner and you work with someone that you Circle Prospect or as absentee like if you had to pick one personally I'm going to pick

the absente right or the so um and then just looking long term how do I get business coming back to me someone who really believes in in what I do as value um it just felt like a good long-term strategy and bit the bullet for probably like three months because I knew I was going to give up a little income like you make that switch like there's just some delay there um but now I think it's coming back around feels worth it yeah and and you speak about these points so um I don't know I

don't know what the word is but like I think most people would have missed that so if you're okay I'm going to slow that piece down because you just dropped so so much gold and I I want agents to listen to this bill and not miss it so let me unpack what you just said because you just said all the gold well what what he said and What you just said is with for sale by owners and expireds um it's like this this blessing and curse the blessing is okay perhaps it's the fastest converting type

of opportunity we have that's great but also what comes with that is tons of competition tons of urg gency you don't get to pick the the the type of property you get to sell uh we don't know where those properties are we don't know anything about the price point we don't know anything about anything right so we Don't get to have a lot of choice and so in the early days you said okay let me build some cash flow which is what you did you went after for sale Byers and expired and then you strategically

as a as a business uh strategy you said I'm going to switch that and I'm going to go after Circle prospecting and absentees what that means for the audience I know you know this but for the audience us listening that means those are what we would call pipeline uh lead sources Where maybe they take a little bit longer to convert right so that's the downside and then on the upside to your point is now you do have choice in the type of property the price point etc etc and you have a lot less competition and

so for you in your Market that was only about a 90day swing it was probably a little longer I mean I had already been doing it right so I had a little bit of bridge there wasn't like a dead stop I was still call S owners but like I mean I would say probably more like six months where I feel like I'm getting an actual inbound which was not really a thing before because I can have a database full of for sale by owners that's great but like you know it's just there's no this it's

rarely inbound they've had enough phone calls that um it's just rarely they just email you hey come on out yeah so let me let me explain to the audience what you mean by that like when you say this Right you speak from this lens because you're Liv it and most these agents would watch an interview like this bill and and kind of get it and and so that's another huge nugget what you mean by that is you really can't build a pipeline with fsbos and expired why because you have so much competition and that timeline

of conversion is so short that if you don't get it on the first second or third call it's gone there is no building of a pipeline that compounds Whereas if you have 20 30 conversations today with you know absentee owners or or some type of circle prospecting conversation well number one you might be the only person they've ever talked to in years in years and then that person the reality is they're not unlike a forsale by owner an expired they're not selling today but when you generate a lead then that lead goes into the pipeline

and then over time when that person's ready to put their property to Market it's pretty much Bill's already won the business because you've won the business through your lead followup and that's kind of what you're saying is that right yeah 100% 100% like find and then once you kind of experience that you find a lead like you know if you find a lead as as we Define it right for sale lead versus when you find a circle prospected lead or it's a different feeling because you're you know you've got you know you're ahead of the

game There yeah all right so let's give the audience some context around that what what you just said now how how many conversations are you having on average between you know call it8 and8 and noon roughly yeah it's like 20 it's between 20 and 30 my goal is 30 okay so 20 to 30 and then um in the average day or week I don't know some days it's better than others how many leads are you able to generate typically so now that I've switched it's It's kind of in in in flux right um it's like

7% yeah of conversations are are lead um yeah it's kind of it dropped right because my it goes lower yeah it's about 7% so 7% is your conversion rate which is awesome which means that you're getting on average you get about two leads a day right right but that could be kind of you know that's what I was talking about before why people I think don't do it right because like I can go Three days without any and then I just clear all that mess out of my way and then if you don't prospect that

next day I've had five Lees in a day right so right that's a I think that's another reason people kind of quit because it still feels like that I still get that feeling today if I go full day without a lead it feels like a total waste of time I know and this is called I don't know if I've everal told you this this is called uh you now you remember it's Called The Gamblers fallacy have I ever told you about this I heard that yeah yeah yeah so this is the idea when you say

7% right so it's like okay uh that means then all right I I call 100 people 7% I can do the math that means seven leads okay I call a 100 people I don't get seven leads this doesn't work well it's not you call a 100 people and get seven it's you call uh thousand 10,000 over a year and a half to get the you get it right so it's like in the Gamblers fallacy this came about because of the game of roulette right it's like red or black is a 48% chance you land on

red whatever whatever but it could spin 25 times in a row and hit black 25 times in a row that doesn't change the average conversion because over a long period of time that's what you're referring to so over a long period of time you figured okay I get 7% some days you get none some days you get four right but it all averages out over time all right so can We yeah you want to add something to that no no good all right so what can you share about the the conversation the prospecting conversation from

a sales skills perspective that a allow you to have better conversations and then B help you to actually generate a high quality lead what have you learned that's helping you have these conversations yeah so obviously your scripts are huge so like using your SCS giving them Autonomy to where it's their decision on the call right it's their decision to move forward after the pattern interrupt right it's it's always their decision um but I would say the biggest thing is disqualifying Elite right that is completely like like I said I was prospecting before but it's unclogged

my business right it's it's changed followup for me um it changed everything because if you're chasing down a bunch of people that aren't actually Leads I wasn't taking into account opportunity cost and doing that right I was like I'm going to follow up with everybody you get a of call reluctance because why are you calling them and then um you know you that opportunity cost so so the the no oriented and the uh giving them autonomy is huge and then disqualifying them making sure you can really Define when you have an opportunity in front of

you versus someone you're going to spin your wheels With for you know potentially a year right that's right that's a big huge uh shift in how most people sell and how most people in our business uh Prospect because most of us are using the old traditional scripts from I don't know some of these real estate gurus that everybody talks about and all all that we've learned is how to try to force people to tell us yes right and so most of the time all those yeses are just you know fake and So we end up

to your point kissing frogs just chasing opportunities and getting nothing because what you've learned to do is do the opposite of that which is make it okay for the prospect to tell you the truth in fact you invite them to tell you no because what we're looking for is the truth can you speak to that a little bit and give us some examples yeah 100% like I said that's a huge change in in my business right so like when you say that like to someone who Doesn't have business in front of them I can speak

like firsthand it sounds like a line right or like a mindset like you want to make them think that you don't need the business like it just sounds like that but like that's the reality like if someone's like eager to meet with me I'm very hesitant to just jump up and go right I'm G to ask a certain line of questions um even just like the the most basic one of like when the time comes and you're ready to list your House do you have an agent you're 100% committed to already right I can't even

tell you I've had people say yeah just call me in in three months because we're gonna be I like perfect I can do that I'll mark that down can I ask you a quick question though like do you have an agent and then it's yes you know I'm glad you asked that I actually do I can't use you my sister's an agent that's right yeah so let's hold on so so that's I mean so good it's because most of these agents that are untrained they don't understand this buyer seller Matrix and what they don't understand

is that prospects will lead you to believe that they're interested when they're not they will manipulate the salesperson they'll say oh yeah come on over just so they can extract all the information from you with no intent of ever working with you and most agents will jump all over that you know they're So desperate they're so so needy for a listing they jump all over that someone says go show me this house absolutely they'll leave their first born's birth to go show a property they're so desperate for a commission check and here's the truth disqualifying

what we've learned is that there are more reasons on why prospects don't do business with us then there are reasons they do and so when you're the one trying to find all those reasons on why They shouldn't do business with us and we can't find any well now you've got a real opportunity are doing the opposite they don't want to hear those reasons and so they don't ask good questions it's a great Point yeah 100% yeah yeah so we're going to talk about the listing appointment in just a second but before we do that talk

to us about the importance of lead followup especially in your business model and maybe what it Is that you're doing to uh to convert these leads into appointments long term yeah so I mean it really just following step by step what you what you talk about right so um the when the biggest thing is now is when I get off the when I'm ending a call is asking them when it makes sense for us to talk again right because a lot of times you think you can pin down like oh it sounds like I should

just call around this time right a lot of the prospect will just Feel surpris you right sometimes it's sooner sometimes it's later and then also you get this call reluctance later right it was just a it was a huge problem in my business I had so much call reluctance for for followups so now they give that timeline and then I'm going to cut the timeline in half right we send them the letter with the lotto the the lotto ticket like you talk about we do that um and then like I said cut the timeline in

half and they're just Going to get a call right there right yeah love it love it and the other piece too I think why a lot of Agents have call reluctance around lead follow-up conversations it's because there is no substance on why we're following up right so they call and they check in hey I'm just checking in just following up how You' been these people are not looking for a friend right they don't need more friends but most Realtors are prospecting for friends because it's a Lonely business right that's a joke but they are you

know they try to be everybody's buddy and they end up winning no business uh because they're so concerned with oh I hope this person likes me you know so you make it very clear that the reason we're following up is to talk about uh getting together and helping you get this property sold I mean that's why we're having the next conversation so what are you doing well the beautiful thing about your business Model I'm going to guess but because you're not competing with a bunch of Agents your listing appointment or your ability to win business

has become very easy now make initial call follow up and then the the to your point and most of it's like all right Bill we're ready come on over and list the house right right and that's just kind of starting to happen right I got switched at last year so I'm starting to feel that now actually it dropped my conversion rates On listing appointments for a while because there's a lot of Discovery and whatnot or you know originally um but yeah now it's starting to get to that point where it's like you know if I

set five it's five for five right which is huge so yeah is there any part of the listing presentation that that um you've learned that you find most impactful like if you look at the listing presentation I've taught you you know we talk about setting the agenda the Pricing presentation which has a bunch of pieces in there the value proposition Etc is there a part that you say okay as soon as I get into this piece of the presentation I know I've won the business yeah I mean honestly it's kind a little tweak but um

setting yourself up and start to sell against your own interest talking about other agents and how they're going to set you know they'll tell you anything and everything you want to hear right that that part in Saying that I'm not going to do that I think sets it just does a really good job of setting the tone for there's going to be things I'm going to say that you might disagree with I want you to bring that up to me um and that tone kind of carries throughout the presentation so you know when you're talking

to somebody you can feel when there's something they're holding back it allows us to kind of pull that out and address it so there's nothing left On the table that makesense yeah we call it disarmingly honest yeah and so most most agents you're right Mo most agents are sitting on what we call a time bomb where to your point they feel a sellers like you kind of feel it but they never say anything yeah and then they wait until the end and then and then things just blow up and so you've learned to bring those

up proactively which which is a very trustworthy character trait that only someone who's trustworthy Would actually bring up things that others wouldn't and put it on the table right so you're diffusing the bomb so to speak up front and it's like I know this is going to come up no matter what I might as well talk about all these things proactively and deal with them so you don't even have to deal with objections later is that right yeah 100% because that used to be me I would sit there I could kind of tell like there's

something there I don't know exactly What you know and then at the end of it it's like well I think they really like me I got a shot you know yeah yeah bill bill this was beautiful uh we love what you had to say uh give us just a couple days to think it over but this was great thank you so much and then they go into the witness protection program you never hear from them again right 100% yeah yep happens all the time so um with with the skill set that you have now I

know we talked about doing 50 Deals this year you know that gets you about 10 million in volume is that right right in your Market does that pay you 250 Grand something like that yeah on yeah it's great yeah so as you look forward uh because I obviously that's very very doable for you what is it that you when you look longterm uh what is your vision for yourself in this business yeah I mean long term so hard longterm right but like every year so far has been double right so that's kind Of it feels

like the next goal is there I definitely I'm looking at an assistant um doing that so I don't know it's funny because I I I watched your YouTube channel and I had um it was like I saw you were saying I want to get you to 100,000 and then from there I hope you'll have enough trust in the contact that you sign up right yeah and and I did that right and then at the end of the year I realized oh I'm I'm gonna make 100,000 for sure right and I Started to like pull back

I'm like I don't think I need the coaching right start to get I'm doing the same thing kind of with an assistant I feel like I'm kind of anyone so um that's kind of what I'm the direction I'm heading yeah no thanks for the honesty makes total sense um last one for me Bill if you can if you can start all over with what you know now what are some of the things you'd be doing differently to start off As a brand new agent that other agents could start doing right away yeah obviously the number

one thing is just volume like way more volume so you know a lot of people are quick to say like their contact rate is off or their you know it's their close r or whatever the problem is but anytime I start feeling that I realize like I need to go back to the numbers am I doing enough to actually even know that that's a problem is my first go-to it just speeds up the Learning curve a ton right and then yeah that combined I mean it kind of goes the same way but like paying down

that ignorance tax of like I need to build skills who can teach me skills how can I do that faster yeah yeah no doubt it's great um are you so obviously you're tracking your numbers I am yeah yeah right but even if I don't right if I if I start to slack on that I feel because you'll just start feeling a problem right then I always go back to my Numbers and if they're not there I'm like well then maybe I should start tracking my numbers right so um but yeah I've been pretty consistent about

it this year it's great well man I appreciate it I mean I got a page of notes and so I'm sure the audience will too so I'll thank you for them as well and uh yeah I don't see any reason why you can't especially in your Market be able to do 100 deals next year which would be pretty exciting for you yeah Yeah I can't thank you enough man a huge part of it so thank you yeah absolutely all right my friend appreciate it Bill we'll talk to you soon right awesome take care uh and

then you've been back since 2021 is that right correct so 2022 really was my first year back starting from absolute scratch yeah so let's talk about that year because I think that's the important year then we'll start talking about what things look like Today so in 2022 what did your your production look like we'll start with there and then we'll unpack it all my production in 2022 was barely 2 million so with my splits and everything else I grossed about 54,000 000 got it my year Y and in that first year you know which is

super challenging for a lot of people you know looking back on that what were some of the things that you you you feel like you struggled with the most um that probably looks completely different Today we'll save that for just a second but what were some of those biggest challenges last year yeah no absolutely so to preface this for just a second so the reason why I got out of real estate to begin with because or one of the reasons I got very overwhelmed there weren't a lot of systems in place a lot of things

were happening all at once it was difficult to manage the daily flow just the logistics of the business so I stepped out of it for a second and when I came back I wanted to be incredibly intentional in the way that I pursue things and I also realized that patience and hard work and consistency were my best friends and that's the only way to get ahead so the moment I stepped back into it I said prospecting will be my number one thing and regard of the outcomes results or whatever happens I just need to pull

myself through until I start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel so I would say my only struggle Was to just keep myself in the game and motivated as much as I could as I went over that hump of nothing into something and I remember even my first couple of weeks back from mortgages I have job applications on one side and I have redex pulled up on the other side I'm dialing the numbers and just motiv ated by the fact that this is going to work one day and so that translated into the

next steps yes that's such a great point so what you're talking about is Deception right so we all get into this business with this uninformed optimism that we're going to do these huge amazing uh things we're going to generate this huge lifestyle make all this money but then to your point what happens to everyone it doesn't matter who you are everybody falls into deception which is like that conscious incompetence where it's like dang this is hard this is way harder than I thought it was going to be and that Usually happens 30 60 90 days

into the game and because you don't have a pipeline you have no results you know nothing's really happening you're putting forth the work and it's like that 90day rule in our business you know you're doing so much work you're working your rear end off for months without anything in return so it's easy for the mind to get tricked to say this isn't working I want to quit but then what happened next so then things just Started to unravel so I mean I got one listing appointment then another then another I mean granted in the first

uh year I would say my main thing was I'm just gonna Prospect the heck out of these numbers that's all I'm going to do now I closed about five sales that year from I would say immediate business just people I happen to have caught on the phone the majority though going into this year which we'll talk about actually came from the followup of the Year prior that's right things just exploded I never stopped calling so my daily quota is about 200 dials every day at least five days a week and then from that my conversion

ratio is about 10% so on the daily basis I'm talking to about 20 strangers plus my follow-up sphere yeah and so that ultimately translated into this exponential growth that honestly I didn't even fores see myself but it's good to be here at the end of the day yeah so no one does because You're talking about pipeline maturity which we're going to spend a good chunk of this conversation to help real estate agents really understand what that means in one second but why don't we fast forward and and tell people what this has manifested into in

20123 what have the results been so far this year so my second year I'm G to call this my second year in this really so 20123 as of today I'm a little over 7 million in sales so that translated into a little over 200,000 in GCI I'm projected to close about so I'm definitely going to close 10 million this year that's for sure I am pushing for 15 the way that my pipeline looks like I've got about a little over 6 million in listings coming in in the next month or so so 13 to 15

million is really my sweet spot what I'm planning on doing this year it's a massive massive jump in such a short amount of time and It's because of what we just said which is pipeline maturity you see when I try to explain this to a new agent that the uh the compounding effect of daily prospecting and that you just aren't going to see anything for 90 90 days 120 days it's going to take it's truth truthfully you know this better than most it takes about six months for things to really start to to manifest my

question for you is how would you explain that to an agent that watches or Listens to the show from from two perspectives one how do you explain this phenomenon of The Compound Effect and what's happened to you the explosion and two how do you keep them from being distracted during that period of time when they're building their pipeline without getting results yes so I would say you know if I were to give myself that advice is number one you're going into pain that's you going you go into real estate you're not getting your License to

make a million dollars tomorrow it's just not going to happen and anybody who tells you otherwise is probably trying to sell you uh a book or something that's right so you're going into pain which means over the next couple of months you should expect to not have any results whatsoever and therefore you're not working toward results you're working to satisfy important daily activities and hit your activity quota that's the only thing That matters matters at the end of the day how soon results will start kicking in is really not a part of the conversation they

organically come through and that's just been proven By Us by you and your students so that's the number one thing that I would say and number two I would also I'm a big proponent of follow-up and just Relentless daily followup because we can make all these calls but unless we're reconnecting with people and making Ourselves known staying on top of mind it's really a useless exercise which sucks because we spend hours prospecting so we need to nurture that uh as a result and so yes and then over time I mean most of my sales take

about six months of followup to actually uh become into something whether it's a listing or sale that's exactly right and and you just have to have patience I mean it's very rare that a human being wakes up one day and has this crazy idea to I'm Going to sell my house today it it it it's a it's a process that takes months and so the whole idea of pipeline growth and building a pipeline is in my opinion through coaching agents for the last seven years is probably one of the most difficult things for agents to

do now you said something and then we'll break down your business in just a second but you talked about actions versus outcomes and this is so important for agents to understand we all when we talk about Goal setting most agents and you hit the nail on the head they come in into this business talking about outcomes I want the Rolex I want the car I want the house I want the income well the reason why they never get that is because they don't associate those uh outcomes with the actions that they must take every day

which is the actual goal the actual goal to you and you said it beautifully are the daily activities that's the goal yes and as a result of hitting these Daily activities results in the outcome and that's why we always tell agents that we coach it's actions before outcomes the goal is to hit these activities every single day and as a result outcomes happen it's like workout diet lose weight get abs it doesn't happen the other way around right exactly so let's break down the business today so what are your top maybe three or four lead

sources that you're focused on right now So I really just have one and that's the one I've been killing for the last two years uh Circle prospecting is my go-to I mean it's really the only thing that I do I've developed a very comfortable flow in my conversation um also with the expectation that it's not going to happen today this is a long-term game I completely am on the same page but yes all I do is circle Prospect which is by the way why Brandon out of the 7 million That I closed I've only closed

about seven or eight units this year so it was my conscious decision going back into the business to focus on a specific Niche demographic of price points and circle prospecting allows me to do that because now I'm in control of my desired inventory yeah I love it uh again it's something what's amazing vital is is your business Acumen uh it's incredible the reason for that is because what the audience what I want to Make sure the audience just heard is is the the the the strategy that you are consciously deploying in your business because everybody's

heard of circle prospecting but they don't understand the Strategic business decision around what you just said and that is this when it comes to Circle prospecting we understand that a there's a I love it because you get to choose where you work you don't get that same opportunity if you're maybe going after for sale by Owner or an expired listing you have no control over that you get to choose the demographic you get to choose the type of property that we sell you get to really become an expert in a niche to your point in

a certain area because that's where your focus is and so uh I think a lot of people don't really understand that and it just takes time so let's break down the model yes first off what everybody wants to know is okay you call homeowner Bob what does that Conversation sound like what are you saying what are some of the questions you ask um that allows you to generate a lead in the first place sure so if you don't mind we can do this in two Parts um I can sort of give a general strategy behind

it and then I can actually show you exactly what I say yep my whole thing is as a strategy I'm not trying to convince anybody to be friends with me or do BU business with me that's not the reason for the call I understand I'm Interrupting their day and selling probably their biggest asset may not be on their agenda that Monday morning so I so I'm calling with the expectation that I'm interrupting their day and the fact that I just want to gauge what is it that they're thinking maybe now or long term if it's

a yes I go forward with perhaps scheduling an appointment or staying in touch if it's a no I always try to go for an email to send them my contact upload that into my Weekly Newsletter and then passively and actively follow up with them down the road I'm not convincing anybody to do anything and so the way the conversation would go is I'd say um is this Brandon yes this is him hey Brandon it's Vitali ABC realy how are you doing well Brandon uh forgive me I know I'm kind of calling you out of the

blue but um would it be all right if I told you why I'm calling and you decide to hang up on me or not that'd be great so it's a great pattern Interrupt so keep going perfect uh yeah Brandon no just really wanted to keep you in the loop I actually sold uh one of the neighbors homes down the street on ABC Street for about 1.5 couple of weeks ago so I really just wanted to check in and see maybe there's anything we could do for you at some point yeah and from there they say

yes or no maybe I'm think about doing something correct correct so very low pressure very conversation oriented uh nothing really You know too too harsh if you will yeah yeah it's this is about it's about getting in the Reps and so let's what I want the audience to understand is maybe what the conversion looks like so if you're having 20 contacts per day first off how long does that typically take you to to have those conversations so it takes me about I would say two and a half hours to go through 200 dials now important

to note also is that I'm not using a dialer so I am hand dialing on My phone the way that I'm able to get through these numbers so quickly is I have a couple of rules I typically do like five rings and then I hang up and I move on that's typically enough I don't leave any voice messages and I just recycle them as much as I can yeah and so that takes about two and a half hours every day it's exactly my numbers and I love to hand dial more than using any type of

dialer as well so so you're you're right on track with with what we See as far as average contact rate so you're right around seven contacts per hour on average yep EXA that yep beautiful now out of 20 conversations with circle prospecting typically how many of those conversations will turn into a lead or or an opportunity to put into your follow-up system so I would say on average I go through through maybe about a 100 connects which you know 100 conversations before anything happens I've been very aggressively Trying to get into the luxury space million

and up and I've noticed that those conversions are a little smaller you have to be a lot more patient to get in the door maybe it's my market maybe it's my skill set but you know typically if I can take a listing every month to two months that's pretty much where I'm at so so let me just break this down so this is what I'm obsessed with right so so as a coach I'm looking at conversions to see okay where can we move the needle So for with circle prospecting it's it's right in line so

we see for about every hundred conversations you get one really really solid lead yes that's what you're seeing as well correct correct correct so you're getting you're on average you're getting about one a week or four per month right and so for the audience sake what how do you define a lead because I think another big challeng is a lot of Agents get into this business and because they don't Prospect very Often they they force everybody into their database and they start chasing a bunch of people that aren't real leads because of their insecurities uh

and they're not dealing in the truths so how do you define an actual lead yeah that was a big challenge in the beginning starting out because my database just kept on growing but it wasn't converting and people weren't picking up you were in the lead collection business instead of Bus correct I was in the data entry business that's right yes no I um at this point I want to make sure that um almost like everybody is on the same page so I need to know that there is a straight uh straight timeline whether it's next

year or right now I want to make sure that they're reciprocating with me so I get an email or some type of an information we have a clear expectation of followup meaning they verbally agreed to talk to me at a Scheduled time next week or whenever else I always ask for permission and just an overall flow of conversation I don't want to convince myself that the person I just talked to may be interested at some point that's the overview yeah so you're protecting yourself from having what we call Happy ears you know thinking something's an

opportunity when it's not and you said from a skills perspective so the audience get gets this benefit one it's Permission based so you're not forcing anything because what a lot of uh newer salespeople will do will say Bob well listen it was nice talking with you I'll stay in touch with you I'll follow up and the prospect's just being nice by saying okay great sure that's not a lead what you're doing that's different is saying Bob listen would it make sense for us to have another conversation will Vitality yes it would cool when would it

make sense for us to talk again the Prospect tells you right so it's all being you being invited that's a lot different than just forcing a followup and having no one answer would you agree yes absolutely and for the most part people appreciate that straightforwardness because you want to protect their time as well and uh you know call the right people so that's absolutely right yeah and so we also talk a lot about when we're when we're coaching we helping to develop uh sales Skills is doing so in in in in the qualifying process we

actually call it pre or disqualifying it's actually inviting the prospect to say no if they're not interested it's okay we can't help everybody and that's what you you've gotten really good at too so once you've uh generated a lead you said you're getting uh you're able to list one of these every single month most of your appointments before you get the Listing come through follow-up not the first conversation correct 100% of them yeah so that's the other piece that agents listening or watching the show you got to pay attention like you you you the process

is lead generation you're making outbound dials to generate a lead most of the time that lead goes into a pipeline that we follow up that lead then turns into an appointment that appointment turns into a listing that listing turns into a sale so walk us Through your follow-up process so mine is pretty simple it's pretty close to your binder uh system I just have it in my uh agenda and in my calendar but every single day I allocate about an hour to call my hot leads to make sure nobody really really hot is not slipping

through the cracks about once a week I'm going to touch base with my as much of my database as I can and then um you know kind of go from there but I really need to make sure that the PE I mean I've got uh you know right now close to 1,700 people in my database that's not enough time to go through all of them but right when I do have an opportunity throughout the week I may squeeze a couple of more into that but yeah also I wanted to mention you know it's a great

opportunity to kind of showcase to the potential seller or buyer how you work I mean I've gotten compliments a lot saying Bali your uh you know followup has been so Relentless and we would trust you to do the same in the representation of our home dealing with Buyers as well so everything is a game not just for your own personal game but also a reflection of your work ethic and how you operate 100% spot on we often say the lead follow-up process is step one in the interview process this is where we can win a

lot of business where even if your presentation skills aren't great which we're going to shift to in just a second You can win a lot of business just through having an organized Relentless follow-up system that shows the client without you telling the client just using your words bsing the client no no no you've proven it over six months you've stayed in contact on a consistent basis and you're proving to the seller you're the type of agent that they would like to hire to represent their home for sale um so going back just to make sure

we not miss anything can you just give Us an average of like your lead conversion timeline so we generate a lead today uh how long is that typically until you can actually set an appointment did you say is that about six months I would say anywhere between three to six months I am more leaning into the six Monon range just based on my recent listings uh but yeah somewhere there yeah and then when it comes more than that you know to to convert absolutely and most of your follow-up This is the other thing I want

agents to to to really focus on because they they try to over complicate follow-up you the vast majority of a follow-up system should be based on a voice too conversation which is just a phone call yes you can do emails and and that yes that helps yes you could probably do some Direct Mail yes that helps but the vast majority of the conversion takes place with a voice-to-voice conversation has that been your experience 100% I Mean I do have their emails in my weekly uh you know newsletter that's but uh how often do you open

up those at the end of the day those conversions are pretty minimal so absolutely if I can knock on their door one day if I'm driving from the office if I can give them a call that personalized detention is invaluable yeah so uh on the follow-up call itself you know people think there's like some magic trick that you that you have that allows you to convert The the process of pipeline maturity is to do just that it's to nurture people through a sequence of conversations that we're having and we're simply adhering to what the prospect

has asked us to do that is how we show our professionalism so you're following up because they've asked you to follow up and you actually do what you say and so what do those conversations typically sound like so I mean the system was pretty much the same every time I talk to a lead and schedule A followup I am taking notes about how that ation went which gets taken care of in the Prospect and clean up at the end of the calling session right and so you know the other day I had a phone call

and you know about three months ago he was renovating his kitchen so I made sure to take a note of that because that was one of the contingencies for the sale so I just called in introduced myself he remembered me how was the kitchen project going we exchanged a Couple of you know Small Talk comments but essentially I try to make it as personalized to the previous conversation that's right sometimes they do forget but the the fact that you paid attention and know those details kind of helps but a lot of the times is just

um you know it's not maybe the best way to follow up but I just say look I'm touching Bas um I'm always here to help you and uh last conversation we had you kind of you know you asked me to give You a ring sometime during this month so just checking in kind of thing yeah well that's the key that's all it needs to be and and the key with followup is building one conversation off of the the last that's why we have to have notes on every conversation and the next follow-up call is all

built on the last time we spoke that's the script Vitalia the last time that we spoke and you can have that date you had said X Y and Z and based on that you thought that you Were going to be looking at selling the house in this time frame has anything changed ladies and gentlemen that's the followup script it's really simple and so the the only question I think a lot of Agents ital is okay when the prospect is ready to meet with us and set up a listing appointment what is it that you're saying

to earn that interview or earn that opportunity to win their business that allows you to get in front of them at their home absolutely so I Always ask for permission and always sort of make it look like it's their idea like they have the leverage and so if somebody says yeah you know we've been kind of uh walking around and looking around and maybe at some point we'll list so I'll say look that's a great idea I mean the market is pretty active and uh I'd love to be a resource for you when the time

comes would you be totally opposed if I stopped by the house one day and took a look at what You got and if they say no not really you know you're welcome to come in I'll be you know I'll say Okay Friday or Monday you know which one's good for you two or three o'clock kind of give them a couple of options and squeeze myself in that way but I always want to make sure that I'm being invited into their home versus for statement correct yeah and we do that by simply asking a no oriented

question which is what you just roleplayed and uh it's great execution Of the script okay so let's shift to the presentation for a second so uh what are maybe one or two things that you've learned from the listing presentation uh that have been the most useful or the most beneficial so that's an interesting sort of area of my growth at this point so as we started getting into higher end listings I noticed that the presentation needed to be a lot more put together because up to this point really I mean I walked in and it

was a very Relationships based approach uh Brandon to the point where this deal I closed must have been two months ago the guy texted me and he said uh velli by the way what company are you with right and that's after the sale you know so we really never went through it was just a verbal connection uh now you know I'm putting together a lot more materials and sending pre-listing packages to make sure they expect me and know what the situation is um I definitely like also To print out a sheet from my followup uh

so my follow-up boss is going to have all the notes and all the times I followed up so I like to hand it to them and say look in between now and the first time we talked we've already I've already called you like 1500 times that's the kind of work that I put in so just those little things uh besides a formal presentation if need be yeah yeah super smart and again the reason why another reason why the circle Prospecting strategy works so well it's it's what we said before which is you can earn you

can get 80 90% of your conversion through the follow-up process so by the time you get there the deal is pretty much done right and so that's a key thing yes there's no competition whatsoever and that's no no competition no competition at all it's it's a beautiful thing so as you look ahead you know for the rest of 2023 and into next year and you start to think about now That you've got this skill dialed in what are what are some of the goals that you have for the future so I definitely want to in

the long run have some type of a team structure to be able to delegate certain things too I'm not closing a lot of volume to be super overwhelmed but I also know what I'm good at and what I'm not good at and what I'm excellent at is business development going out there making connections and quite honestly if I can Do that 247 I would be a happy man so in the long run there would be some type of a more systematic approach to my business business at this point I'm still growing a lot in my

skills and getting my price points up not necessarily um unit uh amounts but price points and then whatever skills are associated with getting those conversions as well yeah love it so let's just rewind let's say you got you know I think you said you Originally got your license in 2018 yes I mean if you could go back and talk to that vital and give him some advice at other new agents getting licensed right now could benefit from what are maybe one or two pieces of advice that that you would have given yourself this really I

think comes from your playbook uh and that's where I got it when I uh became very intentional with things is structure guidance SL Mentorship and consistency that's it I wouldn't Focus I wouldn't focus on the watch I wouldn't focus on the car I would focus what is it that I need to make money I need to make sales what do I need to make sales a point ments well where do those appointments come from uh calls and that's the only thing I would focus on with the expectation that it's going to take a while but

it's inevitable success is inevitable so long as you stick to it Yeah great advice and you know I don't I I wasn't going to ask you this but I am curious you know you're having such great success through phone calls that a lot of people in our industry say well that just doesn't work that's old school that doesn't work you you just got to focus on doing social media you know um especially the younger people getting into this business because they're very influenced by influencers TV Netflix these shows on Netflix um what would you Say

to those people well I would say you have nothing to lose in everything to gain it's not like we're calling 24 hours a day we're only calling two and a half hours and then you have the rest of the day to do your videos or do everything you want and for the most part people who are against phone calls either a have never done them or B have done them for three days didn't get any results and then made a decision an uneducated decision That it simply doesn't work so I would say try it out

stick to it every single day for at least six months and then come back to me with an evaluation report and I would be I would love to to to hear that uh would be and I guess more specifically and I agree with you 100% would you be where you are at right now if you did not have an outbound prospecting business that's the question absolutely not out of the sales that I did this year so far only one of them Was buyer and that buyer was a seller so 100% of my business comes from

Dialing for money yeah and exchanging my time for prospecting at this point in time controlling my own inventory and being responsible for my own pipeline yeah well listen uh there's a ton of nuggets in today's episode if if you guys watch or listen to this there you I mean I wrote down about a page of of takeaways and so um if you guys have questions certainly you guys can throw in the Comments but listen vital it's super exciting you you have what it takes to to be in the 1% in this business and I truly

mean that just from a standpoint of your mindset your you don't have an ego your willingness to learn to do the work and uh I'm excited to see where this this thing takes you I appreciate it and I'm honestly so grateful like I said again to have the opportunity to talk to you today and just as a suggestion to everybody else whether It's your program or or your content there is such gold in what you put out on all levels of this industry that I strongly encourage people to just take notes and put that in

their schedule and on a daily basis study that content like it's a Bible because it works it helps you just got to stick to it over time yeah well I appreciate that and uh yeah we're we're excited to continue to watch you grow so vital thank you so much I appreciate you thank you Brandon Appreciate it is it your best year in real estate or best year in your career regardless of Industry from an income perspective career for sure i' I've never made and actually I've you know the funny thing is I've made more than

600,000 because I had all that residual that's true insurance money came in so that was kind of cool um so I was making probably about five 6,000 a month in residual from the insurance on top of what I made So I would say all in this year I'll probably end up somewhere around uh 730,000 is sure where it's gonna end up being um so so let's let's let's I want to dive into this because the story to me here Matt when you and I were talking it's like you jump right back into this obviously you've

got phenomenal skills but you didn't have because you're out of it for a year or two you know your your pipeline was you started from scratch pretty much right I mean yes you Got past client centers of influence all of that for sure but let's talk about uh how you were able to generate this much business let's start off with you know what lead sources are you have you been working this year in 2023 the same as I always have so past clients expired for sale by owners little bit of just Lista just sold mostly

expired because you know there's more of them that's right I mean I was doing well with expireds when the market when everything was selling In a week you know you know now you're seeing homes start to sit and they're not selling and they're coming off so there's one more opportunity on the expired side at least in my market I don't know about anybody else's Market but at least in my market we're seeing a lot more come off and so I think right now that in this market is where the season Pros or the people that

really know what they're doing Excel yep 100% agree yeah because you know during covid Anybody could have sold a house it didn't matter oh I'm gonna go list with my sister my uncle my cousin it didn't matter because you'd get 10 offers in the weekend and and you'd have it sold but now uh people people are kind of like nervous about it you know like oh gez my my house has been sitting or hey I really need to hire somebody who knows what they're doing and if you can separate yourself you know um then I

think you you can take your unfair share This year uh this year and probably next year as well yeah next year's gonna be a phenomenal year and what I call it Matt is the professionals market right so I want to talk just briefly about uh what I want people to get away from this or or get out of this rather is you jumped right into direct outbound prospecting yet again it's been your proven method uh why not why not do some of the sexy stuff that people are talking about why not do the internet leads

why not do Social media why not do the mass marketing advertising you know uh why direct outbound prospecting for you well first of all with all those internet leads and stuff I don't want to work with Buyers yeah and you know I've purposely made it my business model where literally I think I've worked with maybe four or five buyers in my entire career H I'm all listings man that's like I want to control my time I want to control my weekends again for me it's Not just about money it's about lifestyle for sure um so

I stay away from all that now the reason I Prospect is because it's the most profitable way to run the business you know I got a guy that's in my market he sells you know 150 homes a year $2 million in GCI and I had a very real conversation with him I'm like hey man you know how much are you bringing in with your massive team and your three assistants and your you know all the stuff that you going on He's like well I make about 20% 25% and I'm like okay so you made $500,000

off two million and he's like yeah he's like you know but he's like I couldn't do what you do you know I can't get on the phones like you do every morning I'm like he's like but it is the best way to do it he did say that um so you know I'm not all about the ego commission I don't need $5 million to make two or 300 or 400 and look like I'm like you know the best guy in the market I just feel like this is this is what I come from come from

sales come from pounding the phone so to me it just it just makes sense and my margins are so high I mean most of my expenses are covered by title and covered by you know different partners that I have in the business right so I'm literally running so lean man like I everything I make it's pretty much like 90% profit yeah I was gonna say you're probably on what 85 90% margin yeah yeah and so it allows me To you know live the life that I want to live and not have to sell 500 homes

to do it yeah makes total sense and I'm with you 100% so let's get into the the weeds a bit of of your prospecting methodology or or systems and processes so how much how much prospecting are you doing on a daily weekly basis to generate the results that you're getting so you know I I shoot for three hours a day um that's what I shoot for uh I recently hired an Isa 2 to do more Of the um Circle prospecting because those are lowlevel calls I don't want to I used to spend a lot of

times a lot of time Circle prospecting y um but you can hire somebody to do that and raise you know somebody raises their hand and then you can follow up right that's exactly right um so that's what I have them doing but for me it's you know I I try to shoot for three hours to be honest it sometimes is two yeah but it doesn't take me as many contacts to set the Appointment anymore so let's talk about that how many contacts are you able to get in a two three hour period of time if

I'm calling just expired in fsbos it's probably going to be on a good day like on on a Janu on on a December 1st maybe 2025 but normally probably somewhere around you know 15 yeah and yeah and then I'll call past clients too so add another 10 so I'm making on average somewhere between you Know 20 to 30 contacts yeah makes sense one of the things I often hear from a coaching perspective Matt um maybe you know this maybe you don't is like people are saying well man the pickup rates the contact rates are so

low with expires I can't get anybody on the phone you know are there any best practices that you could share that has helped you to increase your pickup rate from a data source perspective are you using special phone lines phone systems To they're not showing up as spam what kind of best practices could you share on on increasing contact rates yeah so I use Mojo um I use Vulcan 7 data because I feel like that is the the best data that you can buy out there right now um I usually call them I I start

early sure so I start at 7:30 yeah I do get a lot of people that like hang up on me because I'm calling too early but I don't care I'll just call them back in an hour yeah they don't even Remember who it was so um you know I start at 7:30 because I think you know if you're starting at 8:30 or nine man it really is too late because I've done that before you know been sick or something or you know had something I had to do and then I get back on the phone

at 8:30 is so much harder yeah because they've already been bombarded and they they're already coming to the phone with a pissed off mindset right okay I don't want to hear from you no Matter how good you are I don't want to hear it so you got to start early enough where you know and every Market's different some markets you got to start earlier than others so I start at 7:30 um I'll do my first run through the the fresh expired of the day then I'll change the number and do a second run and then

I change the number again and I do a third run are you buying your numbers through Mojo or you buying them through a different service Vulcan yeah Seven yeah yeah I'll make three runs because you know sometimes they'll be on the phone with another agent right you know some other agent got there before I did they're having a conversation they're going hey my phone ringing again and the guy you know the agent that's on the phone's going oh don't worry that's another agent just keep talking to me that's right yeah so um you know you

try them again 10 15 minutes later you know you get them yeah So that's been my method and then usually I'll go back like a week you know after that I'll I'll go back a week and so I'm making on on a on a on an expired let's see so three and then so I'm making about 10 probably 10 to 15 tries yep makes total sense trying to touch them yeah yeah we see our top top agents you know average 12 attempts you know and so that makes sense that you're doing 10 to 15 so

also a little bit with text too I Was gonna say that was my next question what are you what are you doing with text are you doing any video text are you doing any messaging anywhere else outside of just calling yeah I've been doing some text um I've been having so I hired an assistant this year which has been great okay I I always delayed that and delayed that I'm like oh I got a transaction coordinator yeah but having the assistant man it's just you know it's it's awesome it just allows me more Time to

do you know this type of stuff so I'll have him you know text in the morning anybody I don't get in touch with he can send out a round of text they text me back um and that just opens up the conversation so I don't really when I text I always try to lead it to a phone call always yeah like hey can I can I call you when's a good time to chat I don't want to start getting into objection handling and and value proposition or or a text just it doesn't Seem to end

well so I use the text just to kind of start the hey hello yeah we're still interested in selling we're not interested in selling maybe I'll try to overcome a thing or two and then get them on the phone got it yeah makes sense and so with your listing appointments well let me uh I want to really focus on this your the appointments you go on are they mostly coming from the initial first Contact or are they mostly coming out of lead Followup or is it a 50-50 breakdown where would you say most of your

appointments come from I would say um I would say it's probably 5050 um I do get a lot of people um on the first try to to set an appointment um and even sometimes it might not be what's called a prequalified appointment you know I used to be very strict with that like I'm not going unless you meet a certain criteria and I think that held me back a little bit in my business to Be honest 100% you you and I I don't know if you're we talked about that five years ago that that's how

you and I kind of came together keep going so yeah I 100% agree with you yeah I would be like okay they basically have to tell me I'm dying to sell and you I'll take this money and all this other stuff for me to meet with them and and so now I've kind of shifted where like I feel like my skills are good enough where if I can get in front of them I can share with Them certain data certain things that will make them go ah okay we didn't really know what was going on

here yeah and you know they see me as a professional and they want to work with me so you know even if they're like well we don't want to sell right now we don't want to you know we're going to wait till after the first of the year Brandon I get it let me just pop by for 20 minutes take a look at the house I'll share with you some information that I Think will be helpful when you're ready to to put the property back on the market in January and then you can decide what's

best for you fair enough great okay let me pop by so you know kind of learned some I've learned from you a lot Brandon your your uh dialogues I've learned a lot from other people's dialogues I'm a student of like learning different things kind of incorporating them into you know uh the way I do business but I think if you can get in Front of them and a lot of times they just want they they're they just want to meet with one person yeah you know and i' and I've realized that it if you're good

and they meet with you and they feel like you're good they're not going to want to go interview three four five different agents but I used to be like oh okay well you're not ready to sell I'll wait and call you in January and then I would find out that they listed in like the third week of December and Now they're under contract 100% that was my same experience that's why I changed the way I do business and so because oftentimes what people say over the phone and when you what they say to you in

person it's two different things it's two completely different experiences and uh yeah I totally agree with you so let's talk about lead follow-up for a second and then we'll shift to the listing appointment so another big question that comes up I Think a lot of Agents uh will say well Matt I Prospect but I always just feel like I'm spinning my wheels and I'll call people they never answer I can't get anything from my lead follow-up and in my experience it's because they're forcing uh prospects into the database that aren't real leads in other words

my belief is this my belief is that a lead can only be a lead because we've asked for an appointment that we didn't set yet and therefore they become a lead Because our lead followup is all based on setting the appointment what is your how do you uh generate or how do you decide rather yeah this is a lead this is someone I'm going to put into my database I'm going to continue to follow up with so that you don't end up just forcing data you're not just collecting leads that are never going to pay

you yeah and that's a great question I mean I think you know when I first started my career I was putting everybody in there Man that's right and then I would look and be like oh my God I got like 50 leads I have to call today yeah and that would take away from time from prospecting and finding people that really want to sell so I think for me they have to demonstrate some motiv ation right I mean that's it's all about you know what's important to you about selling simple question right what's important to

you about well I gotta move here job transfer divorce Situation um I do get a lot of vagueness and I don't follow up with them I'll keep them in the in the pipeline so maybe I'll hit them three days later and have another kind of initial conversation to see if they've loosened up a little bit and they want to share anything with me but I won't purposely put them into a follow-up system and be like I'm going to call this guy 20 times to try to set an appointment so for me it's like you know

there has to be some Kind of reason and they have to be willing to share that with you and and you know not all of them are in the initial call and I've also had initial calls where they won't share anything with me maybe hang up after a question or two and then you call them four days later and all of a sudden they've opened up sure now they want to tell you all the things so I mean to answer your question I think they have to demonstrate you know some level of of Motivation that's

that's and then once you've identified that how do you set up the call from a skills perspective um that you and the prospect are on the same page so that future conversations are productive where we um that they lead to an appointment right so are there expectations you set with the prospect how often are you following up what is it that you say at the end of a call that you say okay yeah this is a hot Le this is worth my time I Know we talked about motivation but for us as an example we

we give the prospect uh many many chances to tell us no we we invite them to tell us to kick rocks it's only the prospects that don't push back that we're fully in alignment that we are going to have a future conversation or the ones we're ever going to follow up with otherwise we can't help everybody what's what how do you do it and I think I think it comes down to trying to set the appointment on Every call you make yep I think a lot of people they just follow up hey how you doing

just checking in that's exactly right hey Brandon how are you it's Matt here for you if you need me buddy that's not really going to go anywhere so for me if they if they I'll try to set the appointment so when I follow up hey Brandon it's Matt we had a great conversation last week you told me to could you a call back this week I know you're still looking to move to Utah do you have some time available tonight at five or would six be better just go right for the appointment right and then

yeah go right for the appointment right and then if they kick back and say well Matt I'm not ready right now okay Brandon so when when do you want me to call you back uh call me next Thursday okay so Brandon when I call you next Thursday are we going to be setting an appointment or confirming an Appointment love it uh well you know we're going to be uh setting an appointment appointment okay well let's just set it right now because my calendar is busy as I'm sure yours is so I got next Thursday at

6 o' or would seven be better brand yeah put you on the spot there now if you kick back and say no no no I don't want to set an appointment right now then I might say something like Brandon you know look it my job is not to convince you to sell my Job is to help you sell so I mean some people they you know they kind of feel afraid to tell me like hey I don't want to sell and then you know kind of lead me on and and and and keep telling me

to call back every other week and and at the end of the day I don't want to bark up the wrong tree and I don't want to be a nuisance to you I'm really trying to be of service to you so is that the case here are you just like saying hey man I don't want to sell in an inadvertent way You know a lot of times they'll say um yeah man I just you know we're not We're Not Gonna sell at this point okay great now I don't have to fall up with that person

you know but uh beautiful and you're looking for the prospect to say no no no Matt no that's not the case we absolutely want to sell you know I just been kind of crazy busy and then boom you get to the truth you get to the truth and that's what we want we want the truth because you have to have the Courage to do exactly what you want I call it you know confronting with compassion we're just confronting them and saying listen it's okay if you're not interested it's okay you could tell me we're we

the amateurs so scared to hear no that they hide behind it so they just get a bunch of answers all the time and they chase prospects that are never going to do any business with them yeah and my old coach told me this and it kind of changed the way I Followed up he said you know an appointment's always better than a future followup I said so so if they tell me to call back in a month I should set an appointment for a month out absolutely set the appointment send the calendar invite so they

put it on that's right because so when you call them back you say hey just confirming our appointment for tomorrow at three o'clock always set the appointment it's there's just much more commitment to an Appointment versus oh just call me in a month call me in two months okay happy to call you in two months we'll be setting an appointment or confirming an appointment in two months that's a great question you know and then let them tell you and then set it love it it n times out of 10 they probably won't honor that appointment

but at least you're tentatively getting something on the calendar so that we can follow up with a purpose because it's to Your point we're asking them Hey listen let's get this on the calendar when would it make sense for us to talk again you tell me I'm only calling you back because you told me to call you back yeah that's the they're telling you to call call you back that's right it's like you know I'm just doing what you told me to do that's exactly right so shifting to the appointment you know there's a lot

of things that we go through Matt you and I at a listing Appointment that might be 30 minutes 45 minutes maybe it's an hour what are maybe one or two things that you find at the listing appointment that has really helped you to win business well I think that um a lot of it is the energy that you bring both on the phone and in person and I've noticed that more so over the last couple that last year than anything else right like when you come with the energy you're alive you're Excited you're full of

energy right affirmations so a lot of people they walk in man with just like their shoulders hung hey how you doing John you know take a look at the house and like dude you got to come in there be like I'm so excited to be here can't wait to see this house and help you guys get the property sold and just like your energy your tonality uh they buy into that stuff man they they when you're when you're vibrant when you're Vibrating at that level people they feel it right and I think it's it's more

of that than anything else than what you say you know your body language your confidence they want to know like hey can this guy do I feel like this guy can sell my house and do you believe you can sell that house you know because they don't believe they can sell the house or they don't believe they're the best agent for the job so when they Walk in the door they already come with that lower kind of vibration and the seller kind of feels it right so if I walk in after you were kind of

just like oh yeah and I walk in like alive excited I'm ready to go they're going to be like dude this guy's bringing the heat you know let me let me hire him so I think it's less about what you said versus how you come across um but I think you know I have a good track record not everybody that's listening to This is going to have a good track record but maybe they have a good company track record so I I tend to use that um I've been known to you know like last night

I was at a listing appointment I got the listing they said you know we're interviewing two two more agents I said well let me ask you a question if you knew that those agents were selling just a fraction of what I was selling would you still want to interview them or would you hire me he Says well I mean if we knew they weren't selling any homes we wouldn't even want to waste the time I go great let's look them up and I can tell you from from my production level which you know I'm not

selling 100 homes a year I'll probably sell 35 homes this year but most agents we know 47% last year didn't even sell a deal that's right 3% sold less than four homes so there's a 90% chance I'm going to bring them up on the MLS and be like look did you know this guy didn't sell Any houses you know or this guy only sold three homes like you know who do you want to work with and that will you know close the door right there and they won't interview the other two agents um you let

me jump in let me jump in real quick yeah that right there plays off the first thing you said which we're just selling confidence because you nailed it I've talked to agents that say they've told me verbally man I don't even know if I'm they they'd probably be Better off hiring somebody else like I'm not confident in my abilities to get this thing sold and it's like well of course you're not winning business you're selling conf and the whole fact of like what you're just talking about some agents right now are like holy you pull

up the MLS and look up the other agents well yes because I'm confident in my abilities to serve this person at the highest level why would I why would I walk away from Something I'm so certain about that's the anti-confederate look at what our brokerage did and and look at how we're going to promote you to hundred different websites nobody cares about that junk man nobody cares nobody cares um a lot of times I'll walk into my appointments and say guys besides price is there anything else you want to talk about I get right down

to the point man besides price is there anything else you Want to talk about you know what are you looking for in the agent that you hire and just present to that like what are they looking for don't start going off on tangents and talking about stuff that they don't care about you know look what our company does for for this organization look what our company you know is blah blah blah blah yeah dude it's it's just it gets you know they don't want to hear that they just and their attention span nowadays you know

Is like is very short so you just have to hit the points you know come to price and I think you know pricing has a lot to do with winning um you know so I try to solve these objections before I even you know some Realtors Brandon are going to tell you what you want to hear why do you think they would do that you know and then they said I don't know well they want to get your listing want to bring it down I got a listing yesterday 1.1 million well another realtor came in

And said 1.3 and I said okay did they show you anything that substantiates that price anything in your neighborhood well no I mean we didn't see anything but they said the neighborhood down the street you know there's a home that sold for that price and I said uh well why do you think they would tell you 1.3 if it wasn't possible see I'm willing to tell you the truth and be willing to lose the listing but at least I know I was honest I can walk away with my Integrity right and then maybe together in

six months from now but uh if that agent isn't willing to do that then you know you have to you have to kind of figure it out for yourself and there are sometimes I've lost deals because I've been very truthful and I think in this market you have to be very truthful that's right overprice a home it's just gonna sit yeah it's just gonna sit you're not selling you're not gonna Sell it right yeah those are great two points great two points I mean that to me has been the biggest thing too is gaining permission

from the seller to be honest to shoot them straight to not BS them and then to plant seeds at other agents that's all they do is BS that's all they do is make things seem better than they really are in hopes to do what right and then they get the seller to say wow that makes a lot of sense so yeah what I did was I said look why Don't we why don't we figure out how many homes that agent sold so I did the same thing we just talked about I brought the agent up

and sure enough how many homes did they sell in the last 12 months three two yeah yep of course is this somebody you want representing your interest no no no no no and then we signed so you gotta be honest man there's too many agents out there that just they're dying so much to get a listing they feel like they're achieving Something and they overpriced the heck out of it and then it's just like who wants to deal with that it's already tough enough to deal with a seller you know if you're if you're if

you're high level there's you're G to have sellers that are very emotional you know people that are hard to deal with but you know overpriced 10 listings to see how hard your life's going to be great point it's great Point you're going to be you're going to be hearing it yeah so how do You set expectations with your clients that allows you to have have a great schedule working Monday through Thursday and able to take weekends off with your friends and family so you know and this is something I learned after about probably four or

five years in the business you know the first four years I never told them anything right I would say okay great and then they'd be like hunting me down and be like dude when are the pictures coming hey what's this What does this process look like and hey how come you didn't call me we just had a showing yeah if you do not set expectations before you leave you're just shooting yourself in the foot and even if you do a great job they're going to feel like you did a bad job because they have a

certain expectation of what they want it to be like yeah so I just go through it step by step I'm like this is what's going to happen I'm going to leave my assistant's going to reach out We're going to schedule photos we're going to put a box on the door Key's going to go in there we're going to notify you on showings now you are going to get showings during the week Brandon I'm not going to call you after every showing sometimes it takes three or four days to get a hold of these agents you

know they're busy they got stuff going on uh the uh client needs to decompress and figure things out so every Monday I'm going to call you with a detailed Report of what happened how many views we had you know what the client said now of course if we get an offer I'm going to call you before that I'm not going to sit on an offer that we got on Tuesday till the following Monday I'm going to call you immediately with any offers and so that just sets it up where you know they already understand how

it's going to work and I tell them like look in the morning if you call me between 7:30 and 11: I'm not answering the phone y love It I will call you at 11 o' now I do kind of check out 6 6:30 if it's an emergency call me I I'll get right back to you if it's a true emergency if it can wait till the next day just call me text me I'll call you back the next day weekends if it's an emergency call me look I know I'm a realtor I know I'm 247

but I do like to spend a little time with my family if that's okay you know they kind of laugh you know and uh and they're like no no Don't worry we're not going to bother you man you're good you're good and then you know it again it's just setting that up and then if they come back to you and say hey how come you didn't call me say hey remember we talked about X Y and Z and remember I'm gonna call you on Monday so that's the way you set it up man and I

didn't do that like I said for the first four years and I'd have sellers that I like got them full price offers and they weren't happy like oh You didn't do this you didn't do that and I'm like wouldn't give me a good review and I'm like what the hell man and in my mind I did such a good job and in their mind they just had certain expectations that weren't F love it what I wrote down was setting boundaries equals respect so when No Boundaries are set to your point you could be you could

do everything right and they're still pissed off they don't know better yeah they don't know any better they don't Sell houses on the level we do no and so they're constantly blowing you up on the weekend hey what's going on with my house what's going on with my listing so we've got to set expect I've always said if you're going to be a great listing agent you have to be great at setting expectations and great at setting boundaries with your clients that actually increases what we call equal business stature you actually get more respect from

the client that way not Less yeah and if you're gonna sell at a high level I mean if you're gonna sell three homes a year right that big of a deal is it but if you're gonna sell 30 40 50 homes yeah you got to set the boundaries yeah all right so just I just want to talk about the ISA real quick did you hire a company or did you hire a person who works for Matt so it's a person that works for me um she's out of South America and um she actually got turned

On to me by a guy that I'm kind of working with right now we're kind of collaborating and you know he's uh selling real estate at a higher level than I am um so you know you're always got to put yourself around people that are doing more than you right if you want to grow and so he kind of turned me on to um her and you know I just started her like a week ago um she sounds great on the phone you know very high level she's been working with him for a while And

she needed more hours so I said hey I'll pick up the hours and um you know she's already gotten me some some leads to follow up with and that's kind of how he runs his business he has a team of isas they're calling all the time and he's just doing a ton of followup that's right iy sells like 160 homes a year yeah based only on prospecting yeah you and I talked about the ISA thing I don't know maybe it was last year the year before and so that's exactly right so we Use isas to

generate leads and then we convert the leads into appointments that's the way to do it all these agents that are trying to get out of prospecting and think the ISA is going to get the appointments it never really works that way looking for people that go yeah thinking about selling that way you can hone down your list that's exactly right so how many hours how many hours is she working and then typically if she's doing 20 hours a week call it Is she able to get you a lead or two a day is that typically

what you pretty much a lead or two a day you know somebody that you know has some type of Interest whether it be you know somebody who's looking to invest um like I said I don't really work with a ton of buyers but I will work with investors um if I do have a buyer though I do I do have agents that I can give that referral to and I take cut out of that so that works they can work them All weekend and I still get paid yeah um so yeah I mean she works

right now two hours a day cool but she's willing to do four you know and I'm just starting off slow it's not costing me a ton of money to be honest I mean it's exactly it's not I mean down there the dollar goes a lot further than it does here in the states so you know we we'll see how it all pans out but uh I'm starting to use more leverage man which is something I never did like I hire an assistant I'm Hiring an Isa like I'm following kind of this guy's lead he's like

dude you got to start getting involved with these different things just to increase your business because I've kind of you know been stuck at that 30 to 45 deals a year you know and unless I start adding some components to it I don't see myself getting to 60 65 because if I can sell 60 to 65 70 the way I'm doing it now I mean that's over you know that's well over a million dollars in income which Is the ultimate goal yeah I was going to ask you the the goal to get to a million

next year you just talked about what needs to happen in order for you to get to that point so listen Matt this amazing appreciate you jumping on the podcast and sharing what you you know your perspective of this business and how you go about it and your insights and your mindset so I appreciate you very much yeah you're welcome man absolutely and if anybody uh knows Anybody that needs help selling or buying property in uh Palm Beach County that's where I work Palm Beach County Florida so Booker rone Boon delr Wellington me a holler my

phone number is 561 322 9189 and we'll put all of Matt's contact information in the show note so yeah if you guys have a referral uh reach out to Matt he'll take great care of your clients so Matt appreciate you we'll Talk to you soon all right have a blessed day so 2020 was your first year in real estate you're um you get to sell real estate in in Hawaii which I'm sure that has its ups and downs but before we get into it too deep break down your 2023 results cuz I think I think

the trajectory from when you started to how you finished last year is pretty remarkable and then we'll break down how you're were able to do that for the Audience okay so you want to share just 2023 yeah and then we'll work our way backwards okay for so for 2023 um GCI was about 523,000 so sales volume was about1 Million that's awesome and how many transactions was that how many closings that was 26 closings that's amazing awesome job and and to give the audience context the reason why that is incredible is because when we your first

year in the business in 2020 I think you Still had a great year I think you did 150 your first year is that right yeah around there yeah and so huge growth over three years I mean massive we don't see that type of growth um like we have with you and so that's why I wanted to have you back on the show and talk about what in the world are you doing to have such phenomenal results in a market like yours so how did you first in 2020 you started off with one strategy and I

think that you've shifted over to a Different strategy over the last couple of years so what were you doing before when you first started so when I first started I started your program because it was just how to get fsbos so I was like okay I'm just going to get for sale by owners that's going to be like my bread and butter I'm just going to focus on for sale by owners um but then when the market shifted there were the for sale by owners were selling Their homes on their own so they didn't need

me anymore yeah okay so that first year it was mostly for sale by owners and so you were able to make six figures your first year going after pretty much one lead source which you did a great job converting for sale by owners is that right yes yeah so now fast forward 20123 can you break down kind of your top lead sources and where most of the business is coming from now yeah so right now I am so I I don't really have That many for sale by owners in my market like I would say

I have like five a year um expired we have about 0 to two a day and um so right now my main lead source is circle prospecting and absentee owners that's great do you before we kind of um break that down do you feel like as the market as interest rates you know start to come back down as the market start starts to come back do you Feel like fsbos will reenter the marketplace in your Market do you feel like they will come back eventually I think so we just we never even in 2020 we

didn't have a we didn't have that much for okay yeah yeah all right so you're Circle prospecting and absentee owner so this is great um I really want to talk this through so you did you did 18 deals um first off how is it that you are um generating the the opportunities with Inside these lead sources are you calling them are you marketing to them are you mailing to them are you texting them are you door kn what are you doing to talk to these these group of people mainly yeah just outbound calling so it's

all calls yeah okay and so are there any tools or resources you can share with the audience that have been most helpful like where are you getting the data are you using any type of systems to make The calls yeah so I get the data through Mojo So I'm on their um I think their neighborhood search and then I also get the data through my title company so with absentee owners I'll usually ask my my title company for a list and then I'll skip trace it through Mojo and um yeah that's pretty much what I

use and then I have a CRM where all the leads funnel in cool what CRM are you using these days I use followup boss Yeah and so that integrates nicely with Mojo right yeah yeah all right so um for for contacts like how how much how much prospecting are you doing on a daily basis like how many conversations are you typically having on a day-to-day basis average is about 30 about 30 and are you using their triple line dialer to have those conversations yes and it's really easy to hit 30 contacts because Circle prospecting they

all answer like versus Expired because I call with other people in the group and they'll call for three hours and they get they'll get five contacts yeah it's crazy one hour and I get about 12 to 15 contacts in one hour got it now the conversion is probably a little bit different though right so if you do 30 contacts a day or 150 a week you know walk us through what does that typically result in like how many leads will you get from that because the big the big uh Challenge with circle prospecting and absentee

owners is people are like I have all these conversations but none of these people are doing anything until 6 months 12 months two years five years in the future so can you walk us through kind of what that looks like for you on on a maybe a day-to-day basis no scratch that a week or a monthly basis so if you're having 150 contacts a week 30 a day right so that's typically uh probably what about 5 600 contacts per Month what do you typically what does that result in leads appointments that and listings taken um

I would say for leads I would probably get about four to six leads a week oh sorry go on no I just I'm so we we with those leads can you break down for the audience what that means to you so like what is a lead for you yeah so I had to change my lead structure because so now I follow your framework so they have timeline they've Uh they said that they don't have an obligation to another realtor um and you ask for the appointment I believe those are all the the framework for what

is what is lead so you're getting almost a lead every day I mean every day that you Prospect you're almost you're getting average yeah yeah that's great and those leads uh as you're having those conversation you know uh is it because your Market is is more Transient or do you feel like it's because you're having so many contacts that you're able to find you know a lead a day and again AL to day is saying hey we want to sell and here's kind of when we're thinking about selling and yes Marlene we'd be open to

interviewing you when the time is right what does that typical time frame uh turn out to be are people saying hey you caught us and we're looking to list our house this week or is it typically uh 3 four five 6 Months into the future yeah that's a good question so it's very rare that people are like yeah actually we're just thinking about it like we're we want to sell next month but it does happen where I'm like oh wow I CAU them at the right time but I would say about 6 to 12 months

out even longer um I just said an I uh obtained a listing last week I had her in my CRM for two years so I've been following up with her for two years and um we talk About winning the you talk about winning the listing before you even go on the listing appointment so that's what I was able to do with her I was able to nurture her call her monthly I put her on mailbox power she's getting postcards if I see something in her neighborhood I'm texting it to her I said hey did you

just see this hit in your neighborhood so that's amazing yeah so you generate a lead there's six to 12 months out typically and then you follow up with Them systematically and when you're talking about so the audience knows winning the listing before you even have the presentation that's exactly what you're doing you've got 6 months 9 months 12 months sometimes to win the client over so when the day comes like all right Marlene we're looking to do something you've already pretty much got the listing which um is it true that it's not that your listing

a pre presentation skills don't still have to Be good but they don't it's not like you're going up against 15 other agents correct correct I feel like with expired like you guys are all in the same playing field yeah but for me I've been talking to this person for a whole year I've been acting like their agent this entire year yeah I have come list me calls all the time or have people that I've never even met and they're like yeah Mar like when we're ready in the summer when my daughter graduates and We're moving

to Michigan like I already told my husband like we're going to go with you like you're our agent it's amazing like the 18 the or I'm sorry the 26 closings that you had last year were those all from the prospecting you did in 2023 or were there some uh from 2022 that came over into 2023 what I'm trying to help the audience understand is if you really commit to ccle prospecting I mean can you start in January and have 20 25 sales in one calendar year from Circle prospecting or is it going to take longer

than that do you think that's a good question I I think that it might take at least that year okay for pipeline maturity yeah yeah yeah so when you started doing this it was a couple months for you to fill up a pipeline build up a pipeline nurture that pipeline follow up with that pipeline before you got your first listing would you say like 3 to 6 months into Circle prospecting and absentee owners before It started to really turn into something yes yes and now are you consistently what getting two three listings a month from

your efforts over the past 18 months last month yeah I think last month I took six or seven listings wow was because of last year's work yeah got it so that's a it's a and I talk about this business model I should talk about it quite often uh uh I need to talk about it more do you find it more enjoyable more more fulfilling than the Quick you know expired of for sale by owners and having to compete and everything's crazy and everything is really high urgency do you like this business model better so I

started calling expired I was talking to people in our group and they're like really you need to call expires okay start calling um but I do like it it can be boring sometimes because just like circling um but I like I like have my iced coffee I listen to Music I'm just hanging out and people are usually nicer than expired yep um and then I don't have to be on the phones like 7:45 like calling the expire dropping off my resume at their house or yeah do you want to meet like let's meet right now

let's meet this afternoon so yeah my time I love it that's 100 I was going to say the same thing you can build this business model on your time around your family life around your life versus the Business having to own own you and I just feel like longterm like if you do this for 2 three years I just believe more sustainable because if you just and and you've heard me say this recently if you're just all expires and for sale by owners it's easy to burn out you know it's because it's such a grind

but when you're building what I call a pipeline business with long-term nurture business yeah you might not get something right away but over the over a period of long Term again your income we talked about in three years time you went from 150 to to 525 I think it was worth it for you to to switch right yeah I do do and even if calling just I I talked to other people in the group that just do expired I'm like just just do five contacts a day Circle just start somewhere you know you talk about

contact distribution like you said don't just do one lead Source do multiple lead sources yeah and and your business model is just The way I would sum it up is like The Compound Effect like you're having contacts every day of people who are selling in the future time is going by the whole the entire time and So eventually time catches up with time eventually there's a there's a time of um just like you said pipeline maturity where you wake up one day it's like wow I talked to these people five and a half months ago

now is the time to put this sign in the front yard I can I can see It now so let's go back to the phone call for a second what what do these these conversations typically sound like like what are your conversations typically like like what's my script yeah you could get into the script or you could just keep it even higher level if you want but like I would imagine obviously you're calling these people out of the blue right and yeah what is it that you're saying to get into these good Conversations um I

just tell them I think the main question that I asked them is you haven't thought about moving have you or or something like that yeah yeah and that's it right the scripts easy and they either say well well we are thinking about it and depending on what they say from there then you could start to uncover motivation and timelines and get it more into the depth of the conversation is that right correct and usually people will give you That reflex like no we're not moving but then I just try to keep asking follow questions like

oh like why did you choose this area or how's your association fees have they gone up the last year I just keep trying to follow up and ask more questions and until they say hey I got to go off the phone yeah how often do they do you find yourself uh having a prospect give you that reflex I'm not interested and then actually being a lead does that happen Often does that happen not often does it happen 50/50 because what I'm asking is I think uh a lot of people are just to your point they're

just reflex no I'm not interested but a lot of those people end up doing something are you finding that to be the case on uh when you're prospecting yes yes I think a lot of people are saying no like yeah I already have an agent okay great and then I just keep asking more questions so what were you thinking About moving I love it so good um can you break down a little bit more of your followup so you find a lead you say you've got a really good conversation you're getting one of these uh

a day or one every other day what happens from that point in time okay so once I have a lead they go into our CRM and then I will send them my resume and a Bom Bomb Video and then I will follow with them the next day and say Hey did you get the resume or my email will automatically send hey did you get the resume um but then I also follow up with the call hey did you get the resume do you have any questions on that no I don't have any questions when would

you like to hear from done that's awesome I'll structure the followup that's so good and so you're putting them on some type of direct mail through mailbox power are you sending something once a month to your nurture database is that What you're doing once a month yeah months out if they're 18 months out I'll wait a little bit because PL change yeah and then H how often are you calling them did you say you're calling your nurture folder every month yeah I'm calling once a month and then I'm usually sending like I'll send them hey

did you just see this Clos in your neighborhood and then that then I'll give reason to call like hey I sent you that list in your neighborhood did you See it how do you think it compares to your home yeah that's awesome I think if if agents are listening to this I can hear them saying right now well what do you if someone tells you they they're moving 12 months from now and you're calling them every month what are you saying to them typically how do those conversations go yeah that's what I'm saying so like

that's why I like to send um Market updates and then I'll just ask them you see the market update um yeah I've seen it how do you think it compares to your home all my bathrooms are much more updated whatever it is when do you want to hear from me again good for you yeah so you're constantly so you have no issues with staying top of mind because some agents if they say hey don't call me or call me back in a year they won't do anything and they'll think they'll just try to call back

in a year but you have no problem staying top of mind and calling that person 30 days And saying hey we talked last month did you get the market update here's what's going on what are your thoughts you're going to stay top of mind the entire time that's what you meant earlier when you said winning the listing over that 12-month period correct right and I did have a problem with that when I first started Circle prospecting and I was following up you're like Marlene who I don't even know who you are and I'm like wait

I I called you call me back in six Months see don't don't do that like I split the time in half when they say a call back yeah now to just call them just call every month and and do prospects do they sit there and say hey wait a minute I told you to call me back in seven and a half months or they just are they open to the conversation every time you call they totally forget that they told me yeah yeah so you're just reaffirming things and you're just taking them one month at

a time through That entire Journey until they're ready to actually make a move correct and then every time I do have a call with them I'll send a HRI to no card as well with my business card got it yeah that's great are all of your most of your sales people moving off of the island correct yes so there's no such thing really for you as a past client you know referral system uh I guess there could be but most of your business is going to be you're selling a house and they're gone Forever they're

gone yeah so but I do get referrals because I do work with a lot of military clients so they know um soldiers that are coming into the island so I just got a referral last week from a client that I was Circle prospecting his neighborhood uh he lives in Washington now but then a buddy is moving uh to Hawaii so that was referral yeah yeah so you you have to have a um I mean if you're selling real estate in your Market you have to have proactive Lead generation all the time for you to build

that pipeline um because unlike other markets that are you know you're you could do two three four five deals with one person that's not the reality for your Market no it's too expensive people tend to stay where they're at or they move off Island yeah yeah yeah that makes sense so now we talked about the past let's look let's look forward for a minute as you first off what's your goal for 2024 my goal is to here I have it over here my goal is to net 500,000 like after expenses so GCI would be um

766 th000 got it okay so all right so we got to create another $200,000 in GCI and so what type of so you have a couple $1,000 in expenses can you break those down like where where the money's going yeah so I just did this and I and one of your classes so I did a so broker split I think it's about 16,000 on my exp expenses about 15% so that's 75,000 and then equit taxes 35% 175,000 because you pay really high taxes over here I bet you do all right so that makes sense so

on uh a $500,000 income your expenses are only 75k correct yeah yeah that's great um just keeping a high level you don't have to get into the the the weeds of that but like what what type of expenses do you incur with your type of business so I would say just Mojo um my CRM my phone my internet the Mailbox power um my email and property marketing like photos and stuff like that yeah photos like for yeah when you're looking I'm just thinking about monthly but yeah have transaction I'm looking at um photos I'll do

Home Inspection but m i say my expenses are pretty low compared to someone that is like paying for leads that was my point that's exactly what I was saying to your expenses are so low You have a high high high profitable business because you do it all through your skills and hard work you're not buying the business that was exactly my point because most agents if they're going to buy leads and they generate 500k they probably net 30% yeah I actually called like Zillow for my area and quoted me I'll give you four leads a

month for $1,500 wow I was like okay I can I can I can just call my neighborhood and I'll Find those four leads without paying 1,500 exactly unbelievable yeah so you're running at 85% margin I mean that is such a healthy healthy business model and that's why I'm such a proponent of of an outbound business you know um so so the goal is to net 500k are you going to be doing anything different are you adding lead sources are you doing anything different when it comes to your prospecting your conversion your follow-up your listing presentation

Anything that you're going to be adding to the business that you didn't do last year nope I think I'm just going to make the same amount of contacts and I'm going to keep improving my skills and just stick with my schedule and that's pretty much it I'm not different smart because now you're that Compound Effect is going to work yet again you did a lot of contacts last year in 2023 that haven't yet listed so now you're going to reap the reward again just by doing The exact same thing not working any harder still 30

contacts a day now you can do more business simply because you got more leads in the database in 2024 than you did in 2023 than you did in 2022 it's just this snowball that keeps building and building and building and building so in two or three years time do you have your eyes set on seven figures is that kind of where you see it going I don't know I don't know I'm pretty I'm pretty comfortable where Yeah well if you keep doing what you're doing again the pipeline just keeps spitting out these come list me

calls right and so over time it's just going to keep growing um do you have someone helping you manage the business I know your husband's works works with you but is there anybody is it just you two it's just us and then we have a transaction coordinator yeah yeah that's awesome cool last thing is advice all right so someone who's starting off Circle Prospecting again there's a lot of I think head trash we have to deal with because you it's not like an expired you're not going to it's going to be really rare for you

to pick up the phone call a random person set a listing appointment for this afternoon going back if you could have just given yourself the advice when you switched business models call it when did you have to switch that 2021 when the market kind of shifted 2020 yeah yeah so when You started again what would you have told yourself that other people just starting Circle prospecting right now they've never done it they have no pipeline what advice would you share with them and yourself I would say just start with a small goal like just start

with one hour of calling a day and and that's it and you can still call your fsbos you can still call your expired but just start small yeah yeah that's great and just be Consistent right I mean you got to do it every yeah single day yeah can you break down your schedule for us real quick yeah so I wake up at 4 in the morning and then I go to the gym and I have someone that I go to the gym with and then I come home I help my husband get the kids ready

for school he takes the kids to school and then from 8: to 9:00 I am role playing I I either role play by myself like I'll do the scripts or with another partner and then 9:00 I am On the phones from 9 to I think 1 I'm on the phones after that I'll eat lunch and then I will go on the appointments in the afternoon if I don't have appointments in the afternoon then I will just take the day and hang out with my kids it's amazing it's a great life yeah I mean what what

do you and your husband think about the life that you guys have created together selling real estate in just a couple years I don't know I forget what you were doing before But now you you you know I don't know the island that well but half a million dollars a year coming from I don't know what you were doing before is your lifestyle I mean what do you what do you guys what do you guys think about that that you've done I think it's amazing that um I created this lifestyle by just calling people it's

pretty crazy um and we just bought a house aw one of um we grew up in this neighborhood but it's very really really expensive to buy a House here but we we were bu to buy a house so I'm really happy and um we both work from home and our schedules are flexible you know there's some days or there's some weeks where it's it is hard where we're like we're going on appointments every day you know and I don't see the kids for that week but overall I would say our our schedule is pretty flexible

yeah you've created an amazing lifestyle Marlene I think uh yeah family is lucky to have you and um It's just amazing to see how far you've come in just a short amount of time and so love to maybe do this again have you on the show in a couple years and and just see where you can take this but um awesome job truly truly that's why when you and I talked on a coaching call I don't know a month ago and I just wanted to have you on the show to break this down to show

people what's possible just through consistent effort you know what I mean cuz it's not like brain surgery Would you say this is super super difficult and super super hard hard from the standpoint of like I know the the productivity side can be have its own challenges but like you're just doing the work you're just having conversations you're not you're not shoveling concrete all day I think about that every day when I think like oh I don't want to call like dude you're not even yeah you're not shoving conquer you're not in the sun like you're

not Even breaking a sweat yeah it's not that hard that's why I said sometimes it can be boring because it's so easy I know yeah get boring sometimes but yeah I enjoy it I like talking to people I think also um just being personable with other people is is really important as well yeah yeah no doubt well listen I appreciate your time like always you gave I got a whole page of notes that I took and so I'm sure the the audience will too thank you so much if there's an Agent who who's watching this

who has clients that that they're moving to the island or maybe uh you can work with them where can they connect with you um you can I can give you my email they can email that's great that'd be great what's the best email for you it's Marlene sadin group.com and do you care if I put that in the show notes so if they have a referral of someone moving from the mainland to Hawaii that they can touch Base with you yeah that works awesome so I'll put uh Marlene's email address in the show notes and

if you guys have a referral I promise you Marlene will take great care of your guys' clients so Marlene thank you so much appreciate your time today all right so Andrew appreciate you jumping on the show let's uh give give the audience just a little context of how long you've been selling real estate and what Market are you in well I've been in general real estate For five years and prior to that I was in new home sales and management for another six years so I've been in real estate in general for a little over

10 years uh but up until November when I started in the program I was purely just a buyer's agent I mean if I did work with listings it was just accidentally because I had a buyer that also needed to sell but all my business came from buyers up until until November what I met with you yeah yeah so uh and that's Exactly why I wanted to have you on the show kind of talk through transitioning from to your point uh primarily working with Buyers to now making the focus 100% on building a listing based business

and the buyers coming by the way of doing that and that's kind of the goal is that right yeah and for me it was It was kind of scary at first only because again even when I was working with Buyer Agents I was part of a team where I would mostly hand off the listing part Of the business to someone else on the team and I would just focus on the buyer side so I was super hesitant to work with listing just because in my mind I'm like it just seems like there's so much more

work involved to get a listing done as opposed to you know working with a buyer you're basically a girl a glorified you know hom tour guide and so it just seemed like a lot easier just to work with Buyers but once I thought once I started listening to your your uh your Podcast and your your even your live calls on YouTube that coupled with seeing what was going on in the industry and all the transition that's been happening and all the stuff been going on with Nar and everything uh it made sense for me to

start to transition my business from away from the buyer side to just focusing on listings and when I joined your program I made the commitments I burned all the boats I literally passed off all of my buyer Leads and I said I'm not going to dedicate even a a moment to working with them I I purely want to dedicate my my time and focusing energy on working with listing that's what I've done since since I made the transition that's a massive change I mean I think um and thanks for sharing that because I think a

lot of agents are in the same boat that you were on whether they're on a team or they're just you know having to a lot of them feel frustrated because They're they feel overworked underpaid because they work so much with Buyers is that how you felt before you said okay enough is enough I'm going to commit to this thing um and is that what made you want to start working together in the first place yeah absolutely I mean it was partially because yes like when you're working with Buyers your your your weekends are gone your

evenings are gone like and honesty it's you know from the buyer perspective they don't really Understand the all that goes into working with them and trying to get them to their to their goal and so I found myself just running myself ragged on the phones every morning trying to generate business and then spending all my times on the evenings and weekends trying to put buyers under contract putting fires out Etc so I felt like I felt like I I've been in that position where I've had 10 active shopping buyers at the same time and it

was just Madness it was You know I had to just pay people to go open doors for me I had to do all this stuff whereas you know working with 10 listings simultaneously is relatively easy when when you compare the two absolutely and and so it's a no-brainer right so I think what the people would want to uh hear on this episode is getting into the how right because I think most agents if you they would prefer to have a listing based business versus the buyer business because of all The reasons that you just outline

so let's talk about your transition from November first off like what how has that transition been what does the business look like today uh in terms of results and then we'll get into the actual details of how you're able to do all of this yeah so started in November it was you had a prospecting Challenge and I to be truth be told I signed up a month prior November but like probably most people in the Program or most people that are going to be listening to this I just kind of read read through all the

material watched the videos and I never took a step of faith and actually just started doing it until November when you had that prospecting Challenge and those it was a three-day challenge at that point I set six appointments I met with two of them and I got one signed that first in those three days so it was just like a mind shift of like oh my gosh I can actually Do this and so so since then in these five months I've set um I've had almost 2,000 conversations on the phone I've said 88 listing appointments

I've gone on 36 so right at 40% and I've taken 18 of them right at 50% and so far I've I've got seven of those under contract and I just closed my fourth one today since joining the program and right now I've still got uh 10 active listings on the market and hopefully I got like three pendings so those should be you Know closing this uh next month it's incredible I mean TR truly it is incredible because relatively speaking I mean we're talking about a short amount of time when we look at the grand scheme

of your career and how uh fast you've been able to transition out of the buy side into in just five months taking 18 listings and so um that's a huge huge transformation first off let's talk about now let's get into this because you're right it isn't easy what I ask People to do isn't easy and I think you'd agree with that right yep absolutely it's really hard work and but the flip side to what you said just a minute ago it's all worth it if you're willing to put in the work to build a listing

based business then the benefits of that far outweigh what's easy in the beginning to work with Buyers which uh ends up being a lot harder later in life and I find that so interesting that that principle of Life what's easy now is Hard later and what's hard now is easy later or is easier later there's no better analogy than a listing based business would you agree 100% And just to kind of piggyback off that so obviously these are my results in five months but I got to preface it that's with me making phone calls Monday

through Friday with the exception of a few weekends 8 to 11 and honestly from that 8 to 11 time point I probably was only on the phones making dials like for An hour and a half a day so an hour and a half a day in five months generated me 18 listings you know total in five months so it's just yeah the the amount of growth you can have is exponential once you actually just do the work and just learn learn the process and really it's it's learning The Playbook and then running the play as

many times as you possibly can every day that's the secret really that's right that's right so let's break down the model right so um In inside of our Inner Circle coaching program we focus mainly on a direct outbound business and so for the audience uh sake let's talk about that actually means so you're actually the one initiating conversations with what we would call your ideal client Avatar these are homeowners so that you can have good conversations with those homeowners to get listings versus waiting for business to find you that by itself is a Monumental shift

not only in Your business but in most real estate agents business that's what makes this so hard so walk us through the transition of how you've been able to um commit to this process of being the one who has to go out into the marketplace and initiate the conversation versus waiting for business to find you yeah and to and to speak to that before joining the program for you know the past year I had been paying money with a co-work two co-workers of mine to Generate you know leads when I started with in November 1

I said I'm cutting all that off and I'm completely just focusing on this so yeah it was it's difficult because you got to understand like you are interrupting people in during their day they're not expecting your phone call and so you have to just get over that initial just turbulence when you get in the phone with them but the rewards are are big because if you can if you can get in front of or or Talk to the right group of people uh it's just the the law of averag is you're going to find people

that I'm so glad you called me I was actually thinking about bringing another agent or hiring somebody else you know can you come meet me in my house so the opportunities are there if you'll focus on it and this entire business you you have a lot of great material to help people with for sell by owners absentee owners downsizers Circle prospecting This whole time I've focused solely on one lead source which is expired I have not made a single fyso call or anything else it's all been expired business and that just goes to show like

just focusing on One Source only and but going out and getting it can lead just to some awesome results yeah no doubt so and in the mind I love what you said about the mindset you know the mindset of a prospector is one of I believe uh servant leadership you see we have this Head trash that causes us not to go out there and make peace with the fact that yes we must interrupt people in their day in order to serve them because if we don't do it and they left and then we leave them

with a bad real estate agent who lists the property under false uh false truths overprice the pro uh the property they overpromise they underd deliver all for it to expire and come off the market you see that's where we can come in and help people tremendously So you're focused on one lead source which is just expired listings let's break down kind of the process so right now you're prospecting about what you say an hour and a half per day is that right yeah so from 8 to 11: I'll usually you know I'll be on a

dialer and I'll take breaks in between that you know just to kind of walk around and just kind of you know I'm sitting in my car the whole time making those cars I I have to say that because a part of me Was wanting to make excuses on why I couldn't do this because I don't have a traditional I don't have an office I'm I'm a part of an independent uh you know agent so I don't have an office or a place to go so I I could make all the excuses in the world but

I just sat in my car and just made calls every morning so yeah from 8 to 11 I'm usually on the phone about an hour and a half to two hours strictly on a dialer reaching out to not just fresh expired but I'm going All the way back to 2021 reaching out to Old expired because believe it or not there's a lot of gold in there there's people that their motivation is still the same if not higher and now the goal the the number they wanted to get they can probably actually get it now because

it's been three years and there's a lot less competition so uh how many how many conversations are you actually having per day on average I'm averaging right now anywhere from 15 to 20 uh Conversations a day that's awesome that's great and it's all again with with a with a clientele that really needs our help and so one of the questions that often comes up that I want to get your feedback on is what are the systems that you have in place to help you increase your contact rate getting the right people on the phone yeah

so for sure you have to have some sort of like a and there's a million different ones but some sort of a data System where you can pull the the numbers for people and then having a process so for me what I do is I will dial through all of the days expired and canels I'll dial through those numbers and then I'll dial through it a second time then what I'll do is I'll actually send them a text message to get a response and at the same time before I even started making phone calls um

I used Like A sly voicemail lever so I'll leave them voice it's very simple Saying hey I was calling about your property are you still looking at offers at this point that's it here's my number two times so I'm leaving them in voicemail so they when I call them a lot of times they're picking up right away because they've already seen my number and my voicemail and then if they don't get a hold if I can't get hold that second call then I will send them a text and a lot of times after a voicemail

two Miss phone calls that text message They'll user respond to that so that's how I'm able to generate a lot of contacts very quickly without of having to stay on the dialer or make calls for four five six hours a day yeah makes a ton of sense super smart and where are you getting your data from what what dialer do you do you use uh so I use a Mojo for for the data but I also I recently switched to my plus leads um but at the end of the day I mean they're all they're

all the same essentially Right you know I would say moo probably gives me a lot more wrong numbers and as plus least gives me less of those um but you know at the end of the day just make the dials you're going to get a whole if you if you're on the phone and you're reaching out in the way kind of I talk about multiple attempts you're going to get enough context to make something happen so that's I I I I also you know heard vulcan's really good there's a bunch of great providers out there

so Just pick one and just roll with it I totally agree so so now naturally people are like well what what is he what is this guy saying to get these appointments and to get these leads let's spend a few minutes breaking down what it uh what you've learned Andrew with the work that you and I have done together on the skills part right cuz we talked about the first big hump the first big hump is is doing the work we call this volume right talking to enough People uh uh uh of your ideal client

avatar for it to actually make a difference because most agents that's where they go wrong they have 20 conversations a year right uh if that you're having 20 conversations a day so we got that check in the box now the next part part of the success equation is the skills so talk to us about what you've learned to help navigate these conversations such that you can set listing appointments and generate leads With complete strangers yeah and that's where your reverse selling model has really made a big difference because you know I come from the old

school of sales method where it's just you're aggressive and you Hammer the client until they you know either buy or die was is is the kind of phrase I used to live by or as a reserve the reverse selling method it's a way to get them to open up more um it's still at the end of the day get the Result you're looking for um but get their buying now so a big thing you teach about is giving people their own autonomy and that that was a big mind shift for me I'm very used to

just like direct like asking what I need getting what I need from them asking direct questions you know whereas with reverse selling you really learn how to get people to open up by giving them the option to even at the very beginning giving them the option to end the call Before we even get started I was I was never taught from from before to sell like that for me it was always like no I you need to take control the conversation from jump and get them and lead them in the conversation whereas with your method

it just it it allows me to have way more conversations when I give them the opportunity to say Hey you know if you don't want to have this conversation right now you can hang up with me I don't have a problem with that But before you do can I ask you a quick question just that little statement it just brings their their defenses down so much you can get into a conversation and figure out how you can help them all right so let's pause there I mean so this is so interesting right so when you

look at traditional sales methodology traditional sales scripts and training that are still being taught today in real estate right as you and I both know you what you're saying is uh you're Actually able to get better conversations and more people to have those conversations by giving the illusion of control to the prospect you see what you said was you said I was taught to maintain the frame we call it maintain control meaning I got to talk I got to control the thing I got to dominate this conversation and often times with that approach you're met

with a ton of resistance right just a ton of push back and what you have found is Through this methodology that we call reverse selling by giving up some of that perceived control you actually have more conversations not less by giving up the control you were taught to uh to to to maintain you're actually having better conversations is that right 100% yeah so even just as soon as they pick up the phone just using that simple pattern interrupt because you know especially when you're dealing with expired and canceled listings yeah I'm Calling them that morning

so they've already by the time I get a hold of them I'm the fifth or sixth person that they've hung up the phone on and so using a statement like hey before you hang up I just had a quick question it it just changes the game because they're not used to having that they're used to just people saying hey this is you know ra agent with XYZ is your home still for sale I saw came off the Mark just just word vomiting without any sort of like Uh um any sort of like a sense of

like hey I know I'm interrupting your day know before you hang up can I ask you a quick question it just brings their defenses down so much more because like you said it gives them that illusion of that of the control and when they when they feel that they're much more willing to open up and have a conversation than if they feel like you're trying to just dominate them from the jump that's right and that's the science around supporting Someone's autonomy you see when you don't give them the autonomy to say no they say no

more and when you give them the option to say no they say no less yep just because you gave them the option of freedom to make their own decision and that's how we lower what we call Psychological reactants for the audience go Google it you'll see what that's all about all right that makes a ton of sense now can we talk a lot about um in the training how to frame your Conversation in order to set appointments can you walk through uh a little bit of that and what you've learned that has helped you set

more listing appointments with these calls yeah so the big thing for me is you know obviously from the jump is as soon as you can get through that initial resistance then the conversation is is basically what we what you call Dart which is you know which basically the four steps to figure out if you've got Someone that is worth having a con a further conversation with you know so D for desire figuring out do they still want to sell their property and even there you can kind of get caught in a trap because especially if

they've gone through a very negative process their initial response is no I do not want to do this again yeah because they're thinking I don't want to repeat what just happened but if they still have the desire for the outcome that they were Looking for you know selling the vacation versus like the flight that's right so the other part of it is ability do they have the ability to actually still make the move have have plans changed forever um and then of course the third one would be you know the reason which is you know

what is the reason yes you have the desire to still move but why what was the purpose initially when you put your house on the market it's super duper important to Have that and then last line is last part is the T for timeline and when do they want to get this happen and that's the beauty of expired a lot of times the timeline is yesterday I wanted this done already so the urgency for a lot of these people is there if you can number one give them a sense of the autonomy and number two

if you can share with them how you can basically get them to that goal and and and a lot of times it's just people wanting that Reassurance that hey you know what happened is not the norm and and you shouldn't have had to go through that process and you can help them feel like they uh still have a shot and have a chance of getting what they want that's all they really need is that reassurance that confidence and to be honest with you a lot of that comes from not the words you're saying but the

tone that you use when you're talking with prosper yeah Super Spot on so I'm curious how Many um of your appointments come out of the first conversation versus how many appointments you're getting out of your lead follow-up efforts and your ability to build a pipeline yeah so this is definitely the area that I need to improve in because you know the majority I would say you know 80% of all my appointments have come from that first call yeah um which is great however it's one of those things where you know it's just a law of

Averages some I'm I'm not talking with anybody that meets those qualifications to meet with me so uh what I what I need to do is is focus more on the follow-up process because I do have a database full of of of of of leads that have said now's not the time I'm not looking to meet right now follow up with me check in with me so I I just I know that if I can get the results I've gotten now with just focusing on like same day call appointments I could you know I can Really

scale this business and and even double or triple the amount of appointments that I'm getting on by focusing on the followup 100% And and that's the one thing that um you know I kind of figured that that was the case and so you know that's a huge thing that we need to work through right is um because if you look at your conversations and your ratios you'll you start to see okay well where's the breakdown the breakdown is on that Pipeline maturity because right now you're setting you're setting a good amount of appointments but to

your point we could double the amount of appointments set by not having to work any harder once we start to build that pipeline I love it all right so let's transition to what I believe to be uh perhaps the most important part of this process which is the value uh that we create at the listing presentation you see I think the Problem is Andrew is no matter how real estate agents are finding themselves on listing appointments it's their inability to demonstrate true and tangible value that causes sellers to want to hire a different agent and

so we spend so much time on perfecting this presentation so that you stand out as the obvious choice can you walk the audience through maybe one or two things that you've learned uh at the listing appointment that really has helped you Because I've got some of my favorite parts of the appointment but I'm curious what's really helping you win these uh win the business there's there's so many of them I would say right from the jump setting the agenda up front is such a huge piece that a lot of Agents Miss uh first first off

they're just walking in with just you know some pieces some loose pieces of paper with some comps there's no real structure to their actual presentation but number two is is Setting that agenda up front of like here's what's going to happen in this conversation right now and here's a couple of potential outcomes that could happen and and again giving up that uh that autonomy and also saying like hey I am fine with whatever you choose to decide if I'm the right person for you great if this doesn't make sense or you feel like I'm not

the right fit I'm also okay with that and getting their agreement to say I'm comfortable with One of those three outcomes as well and so I would say setting the agenda is very very important it you talk about the the haunted house you know if you walk into a haunted house obviously you have no clue what's going to happen and that's part of the fear of it but if the all the lights were on when you walked in and you had a tour guide that worked at the haunted house telling you where every all the

scary parts are it it loses all the fear and so that's what s The agenda does is it literally flips the lights on it lets them see what's ahead and it makes feel a lot more comfortable because at the whole time they're waiting like what's going to happen so if they know what's upfront what's going to happen it makes them just bring the defenses even further down that's the first part uh the second part is definitely talking about you know presenting to them the days on Market strategy and how you know because A lot of

a lot of clients they just don't know any better they don't do this every day so a lot of them are in the other mentality I want to list my home for here and we'll work our way down if we're not getting the results we want instead of just helping them to understand that the best chance you have of getting the strongest offer on your property is by generating an offer as quickly as possible and the only way we can do that is by basically making your Home the obvious choice when we come on the

market because a lot of times you know I would say in all honesty eight out of 10 times an expired expires because the original listing agent was not honest and up front with them as far as here's what it's going to take to actually get the home sold so when you can come in and and number one share with them the secret sauce as far as like we got to get an offer as quickly as we can if you want to get the Strongest offer and to do that we need to put our best foot

forward and and Market the home and what is a fair and reasonable price and it get it once they once that clicks for them then they're willing to even come down further I've had I've had several clients that came down 30 to $50,000 from their last listed price not their original but their last listed price and it was just stressing to the fact that like if you want to have the best chance of hitting The market and having the leverage and the possibility of generating multiple offers that I can now use to pump up the

price even further we've got to come out with an aggressive and competitive price and so that was that'd be the second thing and then of course the third one is basically the value proposition um you talk about having a no handcuffs agreement which is genius because when you express to people like hey when you hire a listing agent it's one of the Biggest risks you take because you have no clue who I'm going to turn into after we sign this paperwork I might turn into a ghost and you never hear from me I might turn

into you know just the person that's always asking you for a price reduction every five days but if we can come to if I can share with them like you know if at any point in time if I'm not holding up mine in the bargain we can cancel this contract and you can go find another agent right away to get Your property sold that right there reduces a ton of risk in their mind and they're much more willing to give you the opportunity to sell the home knowing that I have to earn their business not

just the day we meet but every single day after that yeah I wrote the same thing down I mean there's it's just risk reduction and that's the thing that I think a lot of Agents don't understand when they're making offers of value it's you know to really offer value there's a Couple components because everybody talks about you got to provide value you got you got to provide value well what does that actually mean right and so the way that we look at that with inside of the Inner Circle coaching program is we have to increase

the certainty and decrease their risk at the same time we call that the value ladder and the bigger discrepancy they are between those two that's how we actually increase the perception of the value That we bring to a listing uh uh relationship so makes ton of sense I love that Andrew Well articulated you know I guess for me let me ask you this knowing what you know now with the results that you're able to get I don't want to assume but what would you have done differently if you can go back and start the your

real estate sales business all over again would you have done things differently than what you did and if so what would They be 100% I would have absolutely number one started my business from the listing side of the equation because on this side there's just so much power and leverage you have working with Sellers as opposed to working with buyers and the second thing is is I was so against for years I'm never GNA pick up the phone and cold call and expired or anybody like that and now it's literally my so business so I

would have Absolutely you know number one join joined your program as soon as I got in the business and started focusing on outbound prospecting because once you develop those skills I mean you're literally you'll never have to wonder where the next deal is coming from and not only that it only gets better and compounds the more time you have doing it because all the leads that continue to pile up that you're staying in contact with all the past clients that You sold their property and and honestly 20% of all the listings that I've sold have

purchased with me as well so there's a there's even an inbuilt buyer business already generated in there and so I would say yeah I would absolutely started working with listings right away and started outbound Prospect immediately yeah 100% and I like what you just said it's it's once you learn these skills you never have to worry about money again doesn't that give you Such a great Peace of Mind whereas before the whole like whether you're buying leads or you're waiting for business to find you I there's agents that just live in fear because they just

don't know if they're going to be able to generate consistent income for their family and so now do you have a nice peace of mind like you can sleep peacefully at night you have a controlled schedule that you could to have some freedom to Do what you want on nights and weekends is that your new mindset absolutely and just like you said like in just in the last between this month in in March you know almost $60,000 worth of commissions in two months just from purely focusing on this listing business and that's the beauty of

it again working Monday through Friday from 8: to 11: and then I'll take an appointment or two in the afternoon or the evening and that's basically it And just to generate that type of an income for that type of the return is just you know so far outweighs the actual work that now I can see where okay now that I've seen what I can do honestly with just the bare bit minimum work now I can see how much more I can scale this and actually get to a position where I mean I'm setting in my

head I'm thinking of really really big goals for myself going into this year and next year what are they you got to Share them yeah so uh this year I'd love to uh my goal would be to clear over 300,000 GCI uh and then next year I for sure wouldn't hit that half million doll Mark which is totally possible I mean it when you and you and you teach through the business planning portion of it like to just like the Haunted House part where it's like I don't know how many I don't know what that's

going to require I have like a pie in the sky type of goal you Literally break it down to like this is exactly how many hours you need to work how many contacts how many appointments leads you take it through the whole process so it removes all the the doubt and now I can just focus on the action steps and let the goal take care of itself and I think that's a big that was a big mental block for me is I just focusing on the goal as opposed to just focusing on the actionable steps

that I can take that will eventually get me to The goal anyways yeah well said you know and so uh $30,000 a month in income over the last couple of months for you what were you earning before I'm curious like what did you used to make and we know now that you're uh doing roughly 30,000 a month what did that look like before yeah so I was for the last 10 years I've always you know made over six figures but it was always between that you know 150 to $200,000 range so I kind of just

and again when you're working with Buyers it's always you know I have a colleague of mine who still is just focused on buyers and every day he calls me he's like oh my gosh I just had another closing now I'm down to only three and so it's such a quick turnaround where it's like I've got 10 listings right now that could pop under contract any given day and I can just keep filling up that pipeline where you know I it can be a much more sustainable income because Before it was L it was like you

make 30 grand one month you make nothing for two months you make 20 grand you make nothing you know it is so unpredictable and now it's so much more predictable because you have a pipeline of of inventory business yeah last one for me um you know agents that might listen or watch the show there're sitting there maybe feeling frustrated they feel a little overwhelmed they're filled with fear that you and I talk about one one Piece of advice to get them into action that might get them to where they want to be in just a

short amount of time yeah so I would say you know professionals make the real money in any business and so if you want to be a professional one of the things that every professional has is a coach or a mentor and so you need to get into mentorship you need to have somebody that has done it before that can show you the way to remove all the mistakes They've already you know Brandon's already made all the mistakes that we could ever make so instead of making them yourself join with someone like Brandon I would highly

recommend him he will show you the road map how to get there take the action take Massive Action fail your way to success and then ultimately you'll end up there and you you just keep the right mindset get the coaching take the action and then just continue to grow from there well I Appreciate that Andrew we appreciate you jumping on the show and kind of sharing just uh everything you've gone through over the last couple of months it truly it's cool to see you uh been able to make this transformation and I just I can't

wait to continue down this path with you to see where you could be in 12 months so truly uh we really appreciate you doing this I appreciate you Brandon thank you all right brother talk to you soon yes Sir and how many people did you know when you moved there like did you have this huge sphere of influence of like you moved there and you had all this business waiting for you I wish I did um but I didn't I knew I knew one person um and uh funny enough he's actually on the call so

that's that's story for another time so so not only did you start as a brand new real estate Li uh real estate agent you started in a brand new market you didn't even know anybody and so Share with people how you did your very first year in in total gross commission earned and then where you're at this year yeah so I um took the test in August of 202 I started actually like working probably like October 1st of 2022 um didn't close my first transaction until January of 23 so that was really kind of my

first full year was you know January to December of 2023 so that first year I finished the year just under 200,000 in GCI I was at like 198 and some change um and then this year closed in pending so as of today um I'm at three $91,200 about $400,000 in income in your second year in business is that right yeah it's it is and it's crazy to say that because you know um it doesn't feel that way right I'm sure you know that like it just you don't really realize it until you put it down

on paper and in fact I didn't even know that that was the number until I Wrote it out this morning so it's it's kind of crazy it is crazy because what were you doing before you got into real estate so when I first got out here I was a I was a bartender actually and I did that for uh couple years you know managed restaurants bartended um you Mak were you making $400,000 a year no no I think I think the most I ever made in a year was like 60 Grand or something like that

yeah it's crazy so the people here want to know how you did it okay so Let's do this uh we're going to kind of so we're going to break down kind of what your business looks like what the numbers look like and so in in speaking around 2024 numbers how many how many listings have you taken um so far this this year um let's see I pulled a total transactions amount so total transactions amount was 16 transactions yep um I I would say probably around 11 of those were listings just going off The top of

my head perfect okay so so 16 closed transactions and as we kind of break down your conversion funnel if you will um what is your listing met to listing taken ratio in other words Brandon how are you closing these days when you go on 10 listing appointments how many will you typically get yeah so I got all the numbers right here so um met to taken right now I'm at 55% um and I'm counting so a lot of my Business uh just kind of do to the nature of what I'm prospecting a lot of circle

prospecting a lot of them are kind of like hybrid preview appointments almost I guess you could say um so in that number I'm counting a couple of preview appointments that I went on where somebody ended up listing maybe with another agent down the line so uh right at 55% yeah and we we're going to break all that down here in just a minute so metat Takens 55% we'll talk About how you got to that number um and then your listing appointment set to met ratio what does that look like um 65% 65% we'll talk about

that ratio your leads so how many leads have you actually generated um this year and what is your lead to appointment set ratio um so since I've been tracking which you know in the beginning I'll be honest I wasn't super consistent with my tracking um I've generated 75 leads and um lead to appointment set is right at 23% I love it it's amazing and then conversation to lead so this is the big one that everybody likes to we're going to talk a lot about this today so we'll talk about how you're getting into these conversations

in a second but out of 10 conversations let's just say how many of those typically turn into a lead in your world what's the percentage so I'm at 5.7 contact lead 5.7 contacts per lead yeah 5.7% contact lead oh 5.7% yeah yeah got it beautiful Love it and then and then contacts per hour uh contacts per hour is right around eight contacts per hour perfect okay so uh now that we've got the numbers we're going to kind of drill into each one of those cuz this is where all the the nuts and bolts come from

so people hopefully you got something to write with I'm going to take notes myself I got a front row seat to this thing so Brandon let's get into it what what are your lead sources first off What what are the the lead sources that you're working right now yeah so I would say 95% of what I'm working right now is um like demographic Circle prospecting so it's um downsizers likely to sell um absentee owners um alcoholic expired and canels here and there if I see something that I like within you know a geographical area that

I want to work um but it's really just those demographic Circle and expired and canels all right now you're this is what's so interesting To me because most people are talking about for sale by owners and expireds and for years and years and years I'm trying to get people to expand their their approach when it comes to client acquisition to focus more on demographic prospecting because with your business business model the complaint is well all that business takes so long to convert I I need business now I need business now but somehow you're able to

make this happen because with expires and for sale By owners the competition is so so high so just we got plenty of time help the people understand when you say demographic prospecting you talked about downsizers you talked about some of these different demographics first off how are you getting the data and then what is your contact approach are you putting like a bat signal in the in the air and they call you uh or how is it that you actually get into these conversations yeah so um as far as where I'm getting the data from

so for like likely to sell lists and downsizers I'm getting those lists from the Share Group which um it's you know they're awesome it's really easy to just go there and and buy the data um it's really filtered for you and it's pretty accurate for the most part um and then as far as how I'm getting in touch with them I I wish that they were calling me but no it's it's an outbound approach which is no surprise here so plugging them into the triple Line dialer and just you know getting after it wait you

call them believe it or not yeah I do you're crazy you're one of the crazy people that call people insane okay so you call people and you're telling me they answer the phone in 2024 they do they do answer the phone you don't always know what you're going to get on the line other line but they do answer the phone insane so joking aside so you you take an outbound lead Generation approach you're you're you're being proactive you're focused on this area of business where competition's very low right you are in probably one of the

most competitive areas when it comes to real estate sales in the country probably where you're at and then like South Florida U are probably two of the most competitive places and so you made a business decision to say well I'm going to go after the business that I want the business that I know I Can sell the the the product line that I know I can sell and the clientele that I want to serve where it's more of a blue ocean you don't have to worry about all the competition so how would you answer the

question from Agents to say dude how are you how are you doing all this business and and and you're going after these lead sources which historically Take 6 12 months to convert what would you tell them yeah so um it does take time right um now if if you make you Know thousands and thousands of calls you're you're going to get lucky every once in a while and find that seller that's ready to go within you know two weeks a month um but you know a really really good example is I just put one under

contract today um a circle Prospect from six months ago downsizers so they're selling their property for a million dollars and they're going to buy a single story down the street so you know contacted them Met with them built a relationship over the past six months um there was no interview process because I was just there for the last 6 months right I was consistent with my followup I showed them properties we met several times and finally they called me and said hey it's no longer an option for us to stay here we got to get

the home sold um and you know from contact to open contract it was literally six months so to answer your question it does take time um but If you do it consistently and you're consistently hitting those numbers and you're building a pipeline um it it kind of starts to like it's it's a Snowball Effect almost and then all of a sudden you're you're taking listings that you talked to six months ago which is great it's the first six months it's the pipeline maturity that you're talking about the first 6 months it might be like dude

man I don't know if this is working or not and then boom you get one You get a listing uh from someone you talked to four and a half five months ago and now you're in momentum you know and as we have as you guys have questions you guys can throw that in the Q&A function so for those of you that are part of the Inner Circle and you're watching this live and you want to ask Brandon a question at the end throw that in the Q&A and I'll go back and and and answer those

questions okay so we'll do like we always do every week we'll do 15 Minutes of Q&A so you can throw that right in the Q&A uh tab all right so let me just clarify that so if you sold 16 properties and and the vast majority coming through this methodology of lead generation how many of those were from people that you spoke to this year versus the people that you spoke to last year that just converted this year I want to give people understanding of this pipeline maturity thing Brandon because until you've experienced it People can

intellectually understand it but they don't understand emotionally how it feels so if you I don't know if you know the number off the top of your head or if you could give us your best guess but how much of your business that you've actually got paid on in 2024 came from the work you did in 2024 versus the work you did in 2023 so I think it's kind of a skewed number I think going forward like if you ask me this question next year I think It'll be more um I think this year I would

say maybe I would say between you know 30 to 50% probably um you know I I I did I actually looked at my sources from where some of my business came from this year and I actually did do a lot of referral and past client uh SOI business this year um which is kind of funny because I'm not from here but it's past clients that are buying multiple properties that over the past two years I've done a lot Of transactions with so um yeah I would say probably this year between 30 to 50% that's great

and that just keeps building and building that's how your business continues to scale that's how you went from your first year making 200 to your second year you made 400 like that jump is huge why because you have a pipeline okay now when you're talking about prospecting you're calling these people um how much time are you spending making those outbound calls typically on A daily basis yeah so um I would say probably up until recently it's been about two hours today um it needs to be more so going forward my goal is going to be

30 contacts a day um regardless of how long that takes me when I do hit 30 consistently it usually takes me somewhere between three to four hours got it okay so two hours right now get you what right around 20 contact something like that yeah 20 to 25 yeah and one of the numbers that you Mentioned already is that your so contact just for the audience you're talking about talking to somebody a Bob Jones you call Bob Jones you get Bob Jones on the phone and you talk to Bob Jones and regardless of the outcome

that's a contact what you said earlier is 5% of the time 5% of the time you're having a conversation with one of these people it actually turns into a lead can you define for us what you mean by lead what does the lead mean in your Business yeah so obviously you know you you teach us the criteria for what a lead is um I think the biggest thing for me when I'm when I'm talking to these people on the phone is I I been guilty of lead stuffing in the past and I think that some

of the leads have generated this year even since you know the early days of of being in the program um I would say there's probably definitely some some you know some hopium built into that that uh lead pool there but um For me it's just identifying you know is is their um is their motivation right is their pain um do they have problems with where they're living now like or if if it's a downsizer right or the stairs too much for them um is it too big right they need to get closer to family so

there has to be some sort of driving force um it can't just be you know I would sell if I get this crazy price because I think everybody would do that um so you know that's been my biggest Thing is just drilling down what an actual lead looks like so motivation um ability right obviously um depending on what what they tell me I'll ask them you know if you did get an offer in the next 30 days one month two months is that something you could actually do or you know do you have to wait

until next school year here um so just seeing do they have the ability to actually move um reason again what why are you moving right and then timeline so kind of just Hitting on the dart framework um and then also you know with a lot of my contacts being that it's Circle prospecting I'm asking them if I can stay in touch so I'm asking you know would you hate me if I stayed in touch would you know if if I sent you my resume would you throw it in the trash like I'm just trying to

slowly nurture these people over time um you know that way when they are ready to transact there's Not much of an interview it's just like hey come over I'm ready to sell so th those are kind of the biggest things I'm looking for I don't Focus too much on um whether or not they have an agent um it kind of just depends on how the initial conversation goes if they if they lead me to believe that they do then I'll ask them along the lines something along the lines of you know how how committed they

are to working to that agent even if I could provide them some sort of value if That makes sense totally I'm the same way right I mean through that conversation it naturally comes out if we're talking about hey when the day comes and you're actually making a move that that's going to come out if they've already got somebody they're going to work with and so what really what we're talking about for clarity is that every about 20 of those conversations you're actually generating a lead and here's the thing most agents won't do the work They

won't do the 20 conversations to get the one lead they'd rather just pay a company to get the lead you're able to generate generate it through your skill set and that's why we love this business model so much it's because and and I would make the argument that the leads these agents want to buy Brandon are nowhere close to the Quality that you're able to generate because you've had a personalized voice too conversation with them Yourself and so it's it's amazing that if you just are willing to put in the work the leads are are

are are plentiful would you you agree with that 100% it's funny you say that because my previous brokerage I came from somewhere where there were a ton of lead opportunities so I got to see every single lead you can imagine Zillow buyer leads Zillow seller leads Home Light leads and these people like when you call them I mean it's it's it's terrible like I think It's harder than like just a random cold call right because exactly they they they want nothing to do with you right half the time they're not serious so you know and

granted I wasn't paying for it so you know it wasn't like I was paying for it and I was wasting money on it they they were being provided to us which was great um but 100% you know just being able to have that that natural conversation with somebody and again see if it's a Relationship that even it even makes sense to nurture or not I mean at the end of the day that's what we're doing where you always say it right red gumball blue Gumball like you're looking for that one or two people that it

makes sense to have a conversation with at another Point down the road and I think one of my biggest issues early on was I just tried to make everybody a lead right I was like oh you know like you don't want to sell well are you selling In 10 years cool if you are then I'm going to put you in my database right so it's just it's just having that abundant mindset of like who do I actually want to continue to spend time on um versus hey if you're never going to do business with me

that's totally fine like I'm just going to delete you out of my database and never have to worry about you ever again yeah I love it and we'll talk about followup in just a minute the can you walk us through maybe some of The sales skills that you've learned that you use on the phone to handle these conversations right so you don't have to go through the whole script but like what is your approach with the conversation and maybe what are what's one or two skills that you've that you really utilize a lot when you're

talking with these people over the phone yeah I think the biggest thing that I've like when I look back to not to get like too nitty-gritty and Detailed with like all the different types of language but when I look back at because I was cold calling before I got into your program I just didn't know what I was doing right I was telling everybody I a buyer I I was saying I have a buyer right and that never worked um but I think when I look at the difference it's it's just being like forthcoming about

why you're actually calling um getting permission to have the conversation so the pattern Interrupt has been huge um again you're opening up the conversation um and from there with you know the with the people that I'm calling I'm kind of I'm going for disqualification right away I'm I'm asking something along the lines of you know Brandon that home over there off 123 Main Street um tell me if wrong but I kind of get the feeling that you're going to tell me there's no way in hell you're ever selling that property regardless of what the Market's

doing is That right and I and I just kind of see what they say um and if they push back against me at all I know that there's at least something there for me to dig deeper into right whereas if they agree with me and they're like yeah you're gonna have to take me out of here in a casket which I hear like 95% of the time that's right then it's like what what's the point like cool okay have a great day appreciate it goodbye that's it so what you've learned like this is what I've

been talking about a lot lately which is when we talk about disqualification it's a term that is a little bit um vague and so the process of disqualification is understanding first that while prospecting there are way more reasons as to why that person is not going to do business with you then there are reasons that they will and so what you're doing is because you've done this now for a while right you've learned that dude if I go into This call and I ask them hey are you interested in selling your house the it's just

it's a bad question right you're just setting yourself up to get a bunch of reflex counterfeit nose so what you're doing is you're going after genuine nose and you're doing that by actually getting in front of any objection you could ever get you're the one actually bringing up the objection first and seeing if the prospect will agree with you is that right 100% And that one thing like something that always like resonated with me like you you teach us so much stuff that sometimes it can be very hard to retain it all but I try

and find like little key things that you say or that not just you but anybody in the program says that I remember and and one that really stuck with me was the phrase pulling the pin like just pull the pin on whatever the objection is or whatever you you know want them to fight against and see what They do with it so like for me me I'm constantly always looking for any ways that I can pull the pin I mean I'll even tell people you know if they do show me that they're interested or if

they if I get some sort of insight that they might be interested in selling down the road I'll even say something along the lines of you know Brandon I can I be honest with you for a second I I kind of get the feeling you're going to tell me that even if you do sell this property next March you you probably already have an agent that you're going to do business with am I right and I just see what they say because I'm not going to ask them do you have an agent that you're going

to work with it's so easy to just say yes to that question like yes get off the phone goodbye so so smart yeah I mean I'm I'm just any chance I can get to use that language I'm I'm using it yeah and it's it's just it's so powerful and for people that don't understand how to yet Use that type of of technique um it takes a little while to get used to because it takes a while for you to really grasp what it is that we're doing you know and so um because that didn't come

naturally for you at first right when I started to teach you this you were probably like what what are we doing here did you have one of those moments yeah I mean I you know I definitely um I won't say I was skeptical just because I'm the type of Person where if I'm going to do something like I already know on the Forefront I'm just gonna like go all in on it right so I was never skeptical but it was just like kind of had that like specifically the pattern interrupt I remember thinking to myself

like does this actually like what you know like it just didn't make sense to me at first I was just like this this doesn't seem right but then you start to do it and you realize like wow okay this is so Much more powerful than I realized yeah it's so it's so um Advanced that the first time you hear it you're like there's no way it could work like it's there's this huge moment of like it's kind of like um you know you're really challenging your own world view on the like on language because what

we teach is so different that the language and how it gets how it comes out is all designed to speak to Someone's like lyic system and so we're not we don't speak like that normally we don't speak that way and so when you hear it for the first time it it kind of takes you back a second so anyway uh I'm always curious to see what techniques that you're finding that are working the best now the the the your business model especially is built primarily on lead follow-up right I mean it's probably extremely rare if

ever that you're getting listing appointments on the very First call would that be fair yeah in fact I I'm looking at where my businesses came from this year and I've I've um I've signed two expireds um that's it like two expired out of all the calls I made like I don't it's it's not super prevalent for me um to your point majority of my business has has came from you know whether it was somebody that walked into an open house at a listing of mine last year like I have one that's you know going to

close In two weeks um my third highest sale ever that came into my open house and another listing I had in the neighborhood and you know I built a relationship with them over the course of I mean they walked into my open house last September right so it's taken over a year for that to convert so yeah I mean a lot of it's just built on follow followup and I've you know to counter that I've seen myself lose so many listings because of not following up Enough like Brandon if I told you how much GCI

I've left on the table these past two years off of just shitty followup or not staying in touch with people I mean it's it's absolutely insane so followup is like 100% where it's at especially with this type of business model yeah exactly so let's talk about it like what are you doing how do you approach lead followup what what are your systems like H you you generate a lead kind of walk us through What happens yeah so um I want to preface this by saying it's still very much a work in progress um I still

need a lot of work with my up but I am aware of it and I'm consciously trying to get better at it so um you know I generate a lead and I kind of just follow what you've taught us right so I'll um add them to my database I'll send them a handwritten card um and a scratch off ticket um depending on how the Conversation goes I might mention something about the conversation or I'll just send something generic like hey you know great chatting with you about one 123 Main Street you know I hope I'm

lucky enough to earn your business in the future um from there depending on if it's uh you know hot warm lead or a nurture which most of mine are nurtures I'll add them to mailbox power so I am using mailbox power um I just you know copied all the templates that you Provided to us right obviously branded it with my information um on top of that I'm sending usually like a Weekly Newsletter um just high level overview of of the market and you know if I just listed something I'll send that out or if it's

just sold um I let my team stuff as well right so um and then outside of that like I guess for more personal touches you can say um I used to have a hard Time with calling people like if nothing happened because it was just like hey I just want to I want to check in right sure and and nobody wants to be that guy so I I've tried to limit not limit my followup but I try and be very intentional right like hey Brandon uh One two3 Main Street just got listed down the street

you know that's super high price what do you think about that right um so it's just it's it's it's just more about staying top of mind Right because I mean these people whether whether it's a a circle Prospect or not like there's always somebody else there's always somebody else calling them reaching out to them I'm sure they know five agents so it's like you you just got to be the last man standing in the sense of you've just stayed in touch with them for the longest that's it so let me just clarify a couple things

so what you just said I want to help everybody everybody struggles with the Follow-up call and and until we until they do what you just said so so number one you've got them set up on mailbox power and are you doing it are you sending them the monthly seller nurture uh uh mailer yep just the the there's like 12 different templates and yep one a month one a month okay and then you're sending them an email Weekly Newsletter recapping the market that's easy right you put it together boom goes out to everybody super scalable right

easy to Deliver both of those are fully leveraged right they don't take any of your time to do and then the calling if you build the call around setting yourself up with a with a actual MLS active pending sold search it's if you're going to do with nurtures and to your point earlier everybody always wants to argue that when I ask them to call a nurture monthly well well Brandon they're they're a year out they never not get the business because they follow Up too much but they always not get the business because they don't

follow up enough and so instead of trying to say to yourself okay isn't that a little bit too much well if you actually call with a purpose to your point which is all you have to do to simplify the whole thing is if you set yourself up on a search you look at the search okay there's Bob Jones I owe him a phone call he's on my monthly nurture list and just pull up your MLS look at the last one it sent You right you just look at one what went active what went pending it's

not hard and all you do is reference one of the things on there Hey listen uh I had you on my mind it looks like Brandon property had just sold I didn't know if you knew that um and it had and I just tell them what happened it was listed for x amount of price for x amount of days and they got this for it um did you know that and it puts me right back in the conversation I know the last time we Spoke you guys I know you're not doing anything until next spring

but like I told you um I'm going to make sure that between now and then that you know exactly what's going on so that when the day comes you know how to navigate this real estate market cool cool and then to your point that's when the business is one because you do the just those three things right generate leads send out handwritten card send them up on mailbox power set them up on the weekly uh Newsletter and then call them monthly from that moment to the day they're ready to go tell us about what you

have to do with the presentation to win the business or the lack of talk to us about that yeah there there is no presentation like it's funny I have I have one specific example that I can think of um when I got so like early last year the the the broker that I was with he took a listing that was like way out of area that he Wanted nothing to do with so he literally was like hey I'll pay you five Grands to go like do the open house and basically like manage the listing like

you know what I mean like I basically yeah like it wasn't my listing but I was like sure I didn't have anything else going on at the time and um you know manage the listing start to finish and then after it sold what I did was I had my title guy provide me a list of um like next sellers right like AI Generated next sellers or whatever people with high Equity yeah I I called around the sale and just said hey you know we just sold one two three main street blah blah blah we had

this amount of offers we sold it for this much over the ass price um I was just curious if you guys have had any thoughts of making a move Brandon this is back when I had no skills right so I whatever I said was probably a lot worse than that I had a lady that gave me you know A a yes right of we're thinking about doing something but we need to do X Y and Z to the property keep in mind never met this lady followed up with her for nine months consistently finally gave

her some advice on you know like Renovations that they could do to the property to to make it sell for top dollar you know from start to finish it was about a nine-month process she calls me and says hey we're ready to sell why don't you come down drove down met her Her husband and the sister for the first time right went through the contract like there was no presentation it was just like hey let's go through the contract let's sign it up I took pictures that day it was sold a month and a half

later right so I met these people twice and you know it led to a $20,000 paycheck so um it works if if you do it consistently and if you're consistent in the followup it works all the deals that I've lost Has not because I've followed up too much it's because I didn't follow up enough that's right that's exactly right so um what happens when you actually get a listing like do you do you have a process like how do you communicate with the seller how do you ensure that the client your client has a good

experience could you give us just maybe a 10,000 foot view of like your listing process yeah so um I can tell you that it's again a very much a work in Progress I had a conversation with Rob Neely about this um and I was like dude I I we were talking just about you know different markets and he was like you know I got 30 listings right now or whatever crazy amount of listings he had and I was like man I have five listings right now and I'm all over the place right and he's like

you need to work on your system so for me you know I'm definitely fine-tuning my systems and um right now I don't have a set in stone Like I send out client Recaps on Mondays that's what I'm working towards probably like a you know a one-time weekly um kind of just like here's what's going on here's activity here's how many showings we had so um I would say in terms of communication I'm probably a little too free in terms of how available I make myself to my clients but again that's that's a work in progress

but I think you know one thing I can say is um I feel very confident that my clients Would would say that you know I I am very um honest with them I'm I'm very transparent with them um I tell them the good and the bad right like I don't sugarcoat things um and I think they appreciate that so um from from start to finish you know I take a listing um my market you you have to I would say you you might need to like people expect a lot here in Orange County I I'll

put it that way right they want you to put a lot into their property and they like The kind of the flashy stuff like where you going to Market it are you going to Stage IT are you going to do this you're gonna do that so um you know from start to finish if I take a listing I'll usually have a a Stager come through and walk it and just tell me you know here's what we could do um she'll give me a budget and then I'll talk with a client about that and say Hey

you know here's here's what it looks like um here's a couple options of of how we can you know Either cover this together or um here's here's what it looks like for you to take on that cost right um from there you know we do obviously professional photography videography and then from there I'm I'm big on inviting the neighbors right so I'll I'll call around to the neighborhoods invite everybody to the open house um because you want to create that buzz right you want to create the buzz you want to get people there um are

you doing real quick on That just so I don't want people to miss that are you doing an open house um that opening weekend for every listing you take I try to yeah um if if if I have more than one then sometimes I have to leverage it but I usually always try and be there for the first one I'll usually do like a like a Twilight open house with like some wine and cheese and crackers or something like that yeah um that's worked really well for me in the past in fact I did that

at one of my Listings um last year that led to another listing this year because they came to the open house and they were like oh we loved what you did there that's the whole point I mean that's just we don't have time to get into the whole like what do you do when you get a listing but like part of that process should be that you're doing some type of what we call we brand it as the the grand opening event right and it's just for Neighbors uh and it's the whole goal Is to

build relationships with those people that are watching to see how are you handling this house because those are all people that are future seller leads right so uh that's great okay keep going I'm sorry so yep you do you you you you you promote you Prospect around your openhouse to get people there which makes a lot of sense yep yep um and then and then you know throughout the transaction just uh um I think just one thing that I've Realized like as I've as I've taken more listings is um just just being honest with the

client right about where things stand you know I think in the beginning I took some listings that I probably shouldn't have taken because I was too afraid to communicate the truth yeah um and that's not only upfront right but that's also throughout the process right like if you take listing at a price that you think makes sense and let's just say the market changes and it doesn't make Sense at that price anymore I mean you need to be able to explain that to the client and and provide data to support that right you know hey

Bob we've had two showings in in three months like there's we need to do something here so I think just being honest and upfront with your clients not only at from from the jump but throughout the entire transaction is super important no doubt no doubt so that's amazing right you know I'm Curious if you had an agent right now was like Brandon I just I I I heard this whole thing right I heard you go for 40 minutes talking about you're calling these people and you're prospecting and you're doing all this you're cold calling um

dude there's got to be an easier way like can't we just is there anything Brandon that you've that like how would you how would you communicate or how would you coach that agent who says dude there's got to be a better way Like can I just post on social media or can I do something else like and just not call like how would you respond to them um I would say no I would say uh the quickest way to to get paid in this business is by having multiple multiple conversations a day um especially if

you don't have a network right or if you don't have people you know that can buy homes right I live in Orange County my average sales price is $1.2 million I didn't know a single person that can buy A $1.2 million house right people that I was the people that I was working with bartending or they they weren't buying $1.2 million houses right so um just having conversations because not only do you talk to more people that way but it's it's like it's like um Atomic habits right he talks about like the um oh what

does he call it the the period of lat potential right where it's kind of like a it's it's an increasing curve right like it's you're going to talk to A lot of people in the beginning and you're not going to see anything from it but what you don't see is your skills are getting better over that time that way fast forward six months later well now it doesn't take you a 100 conversations to get one person to invite you over maybe it only takes 20 right so it's not just it's not just like the result

of what the calls equal it's it's it's building those skills over time so to not get too long-winded I would say like you got to talk to people and you got to talk to a lot of people because you're going to get better doing that which is only going to serve you down the road when it comes time to actually service those people no doubt I mean do you believe you could have you could be where you are right now if you took a passive approach to lead generation and in other words if you did

some type of advertising or marketing thing and you Just waited for people to call you is there any way you could be where you're at in your second year no I I I would be broke because uh when I when I started Brandon um I I you know quit my bartending job and I basically uh was about a a Stones throw away from being broke to begin with so if I would have you know spent that money on leads or anything like that you know social media I mean it I I wouldn't have made it

so well and that's and that's my last Question before we open this up for Q&A you you were broke in the beginning but somehow you you made a decision to invest in yourself and get into coaching like H how did you get to that point like you just told me you just spent the last minute telling me like you are on your last leg you were broke but somehow some way you thought to yourself wow it might be a good idea for me to invest and get into coaching how did you come to That yeah

I mean I've been an athlete my entire life I've always had a coach right so um it's just like you call it the knowledge tax right like if if you want to know like you sometimes you got to pay to get the information right and and and part of getting better at something is yes most of it is implementation but there is a piece of it that you need the information and for me I did not know what to say on the phone I just didn't Know right I was calling people saying hey I have

a buyer I have a buyer blah blah blah it wasn't working so I was like I need new information okay and then I can go out and implement it it's like you can't show up on on day one of football practice or basketball practice right not have the Playbook and then go out there and play with the rest of the guys like you got to have the Playbook yeah right so um for me it was an easy choice I mean I've I've I've paid Thousands of dollars to go to seminars put it on a credit

card when I literally had didn't even have the money in my account because I always just knew that like I would get something from that that would 10x it down the road if that makes sense yeah and and and I mean our relationship hasn't been like that though right I mean it wasn't worth it for you and I for you to invest in doing anything with me I think I probably paid for like my next 10 years worth coaching So so funny um so let's do some Q&A all right so if you're wondering where's the

Q&A section of this video that just kind of cut off that's for our private coaching clients and for agents that are in our free course the listing agent blueprint you can also get access to that course for free right now there's a link in the the description it'll show you exactly how to go out there and build a business like you've just seen step by step and you'll be able to Participate in these weekly agent workshops why don't you start off by kind of walking us through what this year has looked like as far as

your 2024 results let's break that down and then we'll talk about like the journey to get there is that fair that's fair yeah um I think it's been a great year so far I just broke 30 million this month um in November and then October was was the best month I ever had I did about 8 million in October and then I'm set to Close the year with 32 sales 32 sales so over 30 million and in Lally since the Great Recession in 2008 so the whole audience wants to know how in the world have

you been able to do that so what we're going to do Mark is we'll kind of break down what that looks like what you're doing from a lead generation standpoint what your conversion looks like we'll break down the tactics strategies Tech techniques that you use and then what we'll do for everybody That's in the live audience uh we'll have an opportunity to do some live Q&A with Mark and so we'll have about 10 or 15 minutes to do that at the very end all right and so um why don't we do this so last year

you said you did about 250 in GCI is that right yeah got it now you obviously have a huge team of agents that are doing this 30 million I mean it can't just be you alone you probably what have 10 20 agents on your team no um it's so it's just my brother he tried Building at a team but burned the boats so like what you had mentioned last time but no it's just just me technically as an agent I'm a solo agent I consider but I still have to report to somebody yeah and that

was kind of like a factious joke right A lot of people when they hear a solo Agent Mark obviously I know you're solo uh a lot of Agents will hear that you're doing $30 million in sales volume and think wow he must have 10 20 agents on the team no no you're doing This all by yourself so let's talk about let's just rewind for a second because this has been your biggest year obviously you've made some mistakes along the way and so like what were some of the things early on that um maybe got in

the way like what do you think was keeping you from doing 30 million for the last couple of years when arguably it was a better opportunity it was a better housing market in the last couple years than it was this year yet you've Done so well this year so what were the roadblocks before so and by the way I'm not sure if this is for you or not you can decide but if you're a real estate agent you're watching this video and you're not earning at least $100,000 per year you feel like you're overworked you're

underpaid maybe even underappreciated perhaps it's time to talk if you're serious about growing your real estate sales business and you're open to having a conversation to Determine if working with me as your coach makes sense or not then click the link in the description beneath this video or simply go to reverse selling.com to book a call the biggest thing for me and and people who maybe don't join the program or do know of Vulcan 7 or know of you know something that can benefit their time per dial I was self- Dialing for the last three

years so I would go on the MLS I'd handpick I'd hand search your contact Info I spent eight minutes trying to find one contact I'd make 20 30 calls a day and that that managed to get me to 19 to 20 million but it never it you know it didn't do what it did for me in the last and I discovered buan four months ago that's what I Jo so that in the last four months I've done about 14 million so I was set not to reach my 2023 stats that I that I hit and

I thought I was going to double it let alone in the last four months I doubled It yeah well it can't be just Vulcan 7 it can't be you got a dialer now all of a sudden everything's like hky Dory because if that was the case man oh man that would be pretty easy for people because let me just ask you this let me maybe it's a better question when you comes to client acquisition you've made a decision that you have to go out there and initiate conversation was it always that way or do you

believe in this idea that agents Can passively approach lead generation and maybe post some content on the internet do a little bit of social media uh do a couple open houses there and and do that type of production in other words you at some point said you have to go play offense and Prospect how did you make that decision versus doing what most agents do which is take a passive approach and wait for business to find them yeah um I think I got into a young And I never wanted to have someone hand me an

opportunity to serve like a family member or a cousin so I made myself a promise and I said the first client I'll close is going to be off my own efforts but also that is I printed something that I just found online from a mentor and he called it the greatness tracker and it's 75 75 conversations a week I've been doing that for four years love it I love it do two of them a week three of them a week try to have as many as I can But it was a minimum of one yeah

and so we're going to kind of break down that business um quickly we don't have to go too deep on this I do want your opinion why you think that 80 to 90% of our industry has such a difficult time accepting the fact that they have to go out there and call people they have to go out there and talk to people if they're going to make any substantial income in this business why do you think that is so difficult for the vast Majority of people that call themselves real estate agents I think it's difficult

for them because of the the agenda that they've bought into that you know they don't realize it's only a step up from used car sales so they're treated the same way but they think they're treated lavishly um I think they just don't want to get down and don't want to do the hard work to it I think it's it's very convenient to just post a reel and sit there and say Hey this is great you know let the leads flow in yeah no it's a great point so just taking the path of least resistance and

then sit back and live in what we call hopium right hope that it's going to work out all right so let's break down your business so you do uh $30 million this year first off let's talk about lead generation what what lead sources primarily are you working right now it's like one 95% um cancel expires got it okay so you Are working the lowest hanging fruit but at the same time you're working lead sources that are the most difficult to convert because the amount of competition right right and so let's talk about how you're able

to convert these types of leads because everybody has heard of okay I want to go after canels expired or withdrawn and everyone a lot of people try and it's very rare Mark that people actually have success Going after that source of business although they understand that it's probably the quickest way to get a listing they try it they do it Mark I have agents tell me every day I'm doing it first off I can't get anybody to pick up the phone when I do I can't get past resistance etc etc so what are you doing

what is your approach to contacting these people first are you calling them do you door knock them do you put up the bat signal in in the sky and and hope That they call you like how do you actually talk to these people yeah the biggest thing for me is I uh I I don't really door knock to him I mean I I'll door knock and handle it a resume in the sense of if I feel like there's a good opportunity for me not to waste my time but the biggest the biggest thing for me

was just the phone I mean it's if I have that good first conversation I'll put him in the pile of hey maybe I can give them a follow-up call back in the day Before I realized of how to disqualify a prospect I would just call out of the blue and say let's hope they don't cuss me out and block my number the second time I'm calling them because I thought I felt like they would remember me a week later they don't remember me um really it's just it's always been on the phone and I try

to have a unique conversation where you know you can disqualify the pro the Prospect and they can remember the conversation say hey I Remember you I think I had a good call about you and and you know we talked about some what went wrong in the sale of my home everyone else just wanted to put sign in the art yeah and we're going to talk about that in in a second um one of the biggest challenges for agents that are calling expired cancels withdrawn that type of business and you hear it all the time inside

of our inside of our community is well no one picks up the Phone my contact rate is so low so Mark how have you gotten past that how have you because how many people do you talk to how much prospecting are you doing per day let's start with that I freaking love prospecting um I my schedule 90% of my schedule Brandon I'll be completely honest is just prospecting I used to do try to buy people lunch I used to try to show as many houses as I could or try to at least see meet people

on their job sites let's say contractors Or something it just never worked for me until I sat down and I would call from 8: am to like sometimes 8 to 3 p.m. 4 P PM is is a daily that's non-negotiable that's just because I clear my schedule to call I've put systems in place where I don't have to be outside of my office I can just be on phones but I've probably done 8 to 8:00 a.m to 300 p.m. and then I leave the office to go do whatever I need to do for the last

three years consistently and that's just the Thing I hope everyone heard you're prospecting from 8 a.m. to 300 p.m. in the afternoon every day five days a week five days a week yep I just started doing weekends for the past three years consistently you see most agents Mark they don't prospect that much in a month let alone in day and because you've you've understood that you're either on an appointment presenting or you're on the phone looking for an appointment these are the only two things that pay Really well everything outside of that is a waste

of time and your results this year has manifested over what you've done over the past three years in that you're going to generate $600,000 in income doing this thing that most agents are avoiding like the plague talk to us about the importance of the consistency the comp effect and the accumulation of all your prospecting because most people say well Mark that's dude I Prospect you know I called for a couple Hours here and there and I didn't get any leads I didn't get any appointments talk to us about the importance of consistency and then we'll

break down some tactical things um consistency is is key in everything I'm I'm really big on personal development so that same aspect of personal development just bled into my business um but for me with consistency I have two two really you know two big testimonies I could share is one I I had like I had called a Developer who came off the market with some like 2unit uh build here in the area and I was like hey we had a great call he didn't pick up the phone for six months after that I was supposed

to meet him later that that week too he just ghosted me and I eventually called him back six months later after you know multiple attempts and he's like hey I have a new project why don't you just show up and take a look at it and I was like okay what's this that landed me a 12 unit develop that he just handed to me you know and he was just like hey I want you to list this and he never gave me a y never gave me anything else um another really big consistent factor to

it is I had a client who I sold um I represented a client to sell a property to a builder to and I ended up really wanting to work with that Builder who was represented by another agent but he would just always ghost me and he had a lot of Agents wanting to give him a call I eventually became really persistent to him and he used me to write some pretty substantial off-market offers one that we're pending on right now for about 12 million that's off market and he was like I only chose you because

you're well spoken and you kept freaking calling me period yeah he that's it you just kept calling me yeah it's amazing I mean is there any tactical thing that you can share with the audience to help them increase their contact rate because Once we get to the Q&A session uh section of this conversation people are already starting to ask like well I call and I can't get anybody on the phone that's like the number one like uh I don't know if I'll call it an excuse because people are putting in the Reps but they can't

get the result so what have you done to increase contact rate with that source of business um number one is always trying to be the first to the phone but that Was something I picked up from Tucker and that was only the last couple of months um I don't I I honestly would say to pick up your contact rate the best thing that I could do is just you just have to really get a hold of more people some people don't want to call in the morning you know I mean Jeb blunt talks about it

you always have to call in the morning it's when they're least irritated at you um but really just calling from I wouldn't say I've ever Really discovered the magic sauce to it Brandon it's just been if I can talk to the next person in line sometimes the most random people pick up the phone who have ignore me for months and I have a conversation with them for an hour so that's just been for me the more contacts well what's interesting about that Mark is that most people were looking for and I didn't know what you

were going to say right I didn't this isn't scripted you and I talk for five Minutes before we I went live but what they were hoping you were G to say was that you were G to have all these secrets these nuggets okay you're going to do this you're going to Whit list your number then put your number here and then do this that the other thing and then uh you're going to show you didn't say any of that all you said was well I just I don't do anything Brandon all I do is make

the calls and I I get results because I'm just putting in the Work like you're not doing there's no secret sauce that Mark Poppit knows that nobody else knows that you're not sharing with everybody is is that fair it's a th% fair yeah like you don't you don't have this key thing that like you're the expired man you're going to make 600 he knows something that I just don't know and that MF is just not telling us I know it I mean that's what they're thinking but that's not the case at all you just simply

have a list of Expired like everybody else does in every other market and you just simply make phone calls for six hours a day I mean there is no other secret around that now we're going to talk about the skills and the the thing and how to handle the conversation in just a second but from a pure effort perspective you're just putting in the Reps would you agree that's it there's nothing else to it yeah nothing else to it I love it how matter of fact you are about it it's So good so let's talk

about the actual conversation itself this is where I think it matters a lot right so what if you learned in how to handle these conversations such that a you're able to get past initial resistance and B you're able to actually have a productive conversation because to your point most people that Prospect expired cancel withdrawn say dude I I can't even get it I can't even get a word in these people are so upset let alone ask the first Question in the script so teach us how did you what have you learned to handle these conversations

I think um you know Alex Heros always says 10,000 cult calls will teach you more about sales than a sales book ever well I mean the moment I pick up the phone I can sense someone's like emotional stability on the phone when that they're pissed off they they're open to the conversation it's pretty quick I you can quickly understand it um for me it's just been You know just trying to Pivot from the conversation sometimes I'll jump in and say hey look you'll hate me can I have 30 seconds of your time sometimes I'll just

flat out go if I see the door I'll just start asking the questions there's there's some people where I don't have to repeat the script every single time um but really I think I think it's just understanding the person's you know emotional or tone tone of voice that's been the biggest key for me is I can Sense their pain point just right off right off the bat when they pick up phone so what you're saying right from a coach's perspective some who's been selling over the phone for 20 years what you said was the key

to having productive conversations isn't what you say it's what you hear that determines what you say you see everybody else has that wrong right so when they come to me for help Mark well what's the script what's the script what's the script what The what's the script you know the scripts right you know what to say but that isn't the secret the secret is what you just said which is I'm listening for who I'm actually speaking to that will then determine what it is that I say and so you're not listening with the intent of

um because because what most people do is they've got their finger literally on on on the script and and they don't hear anything that the prospect says they just have their finger on this Script I'm telling you this is what it's like I I Shadow them they go like this so they got the script in their hand uh if this was a piece of paper this will be good for the audience so you could see my iPad they're like this as soon as the person they hear like a dead noise uh and then they just

read the next line of the script they don't even hear what the person said they're just going down one you see the secret to having productive conversations is first Understanding and knowing what to say I mean can you and I agree on that because what the audience is hearing is like yeah Mark's been doing this a lot longer than me what if I'm just getting started like I don't have the confidence first understanding how you're going to approach the conversation from a script perspective I think you would say that's fairly important but then once you

get past that really trying to listen will determine whether or not you have a Productive conversation is that what you're saying yeah you said you said the words I couldn't even come up with but that's exactly what I would have said if I could have if I would have known what to say yeah so um which is all fine and dandy but like your skill level is a result of your own emotional intelligence in other words people can see it right now just in this interview that you're pretty comfortable with I don't know call it

maybe being Uncomfortable and that because you could stay calm you could stay cool Under Fire like somebody can be upset with you and you could still not respond emotionally and get in this argument and be able to probably respond to some resistance and some objections and stay on the phone longer than most people that don't have that emotional intelligence would that be fair yeah not always but yeah I would say so all right so talk to us about that talk to us About okay the key thing is you've got to for the most part set

appointments with people right yeah and so how are you taking this conversation from are there any techniques that you've learned through the work that we've done together that helps you actually set and go on more appointments 100% I think it's it's always been in a position where every time I used to go on the calls they'd be like you got a buyer for me well no I Don't well then why the hell are you calling me you know taking that that was one of the biggest things I could not figure out how to get to

that but they're not asking you if you actually have a buyer they don't care about that that's right asking you for they're asking you some something completely different and the goal is to get past that um for me with the scripts and really just understanding the way you would break down calls more than the Scripts actually as a matter of fact no offense but um would be understanding okay well shoot the scripts says this but Brandon broke down the prospects tone of voice and and you know questions to the agent in a way where it

makes me question my approach to it completely differently that's right that's exactly right and so if we're looking at like from a conversion stand point right so one of the things I said hey Mark bring your Conversions can you walk us through what your prospecting conversions look like in other words what what are your contacts per hour what are your contacts to lead and then lead to appointment set I'm really really curious on like how you're converting over the phone which will tell the story yeah honestly my contacts per hour I would say if I

could get that to be you know over 10 contacts an hour I honestly think I could have doubled my business to 50 60 million I Just don't get that kind of rate I have I barely walk with 20 to 15 contacts sometimes I don't even call it a contact right they hang on me pretty quickly and I consider it a shitty call I don't want to call it Con considerate a contact um but in 2024 I've had about a 20% conversion I had 167 leads and those are leads that I consider reverse selling qualified leads

someone who knows who I am when I call them more importantly someone who I've at least agreed to have A call with a follow-up call with a zoom call or an appointment or I can Del hand deliver my resume and they were openly willing to say hey we actually really want to see a resume we won't throw it away so 167 is what you generated over over that course of of a year and when you say 20% conversion you're talking about of those 167 that you generated over the phone 20% you were able to convert

into an appointment met or into a listing taken Into or into a sale sale contract written buyer brokerage agreement service signed listing agreement signed you know 2025 coming Etc yeah it's amazing so talk to us about like that next step in in a in an agent's sales process so appointment set to appointment met there's a whole bunch of stuff that can go wrong right and oftentimes it does go wrong you know I think there's a lot of agents who say well Mark I'm getting pretty good at Getting people to verbalize this agreement around meeting with

me but then I can never get them to show up for the meeting either they're cancelling on me or I show up and they know show me etc etc is there anything that you can share that's helped you increase the number of people that you actually set appointments with that actually come to fruition yeah um I Heard a call recording last week from Jacob Scott I Think it was on September 13th of 2024 I would recommend everyone go back and listen to that call because that call taught me a lot what's it's what I used

to do back in the day it's when your the prospect just has you on the phone and they're saying yeah yeah yeah yeah and you're like oh can I send you my resume and they're like okay sounds good byebye and you just say bye um but I think understand that aspect of it is when I can speak with the when I can speak with The prospect where am I pivoting to from there so in other words you're talking about like this this technique we talk about all the time which is disqualification right versus versus what

we would say forcing leads are having happy ears right so can you explain the difference between those two so the audience can say okay I kind of get what Mark's talking about here can you talk to us about the difference of that of like all the agents that Force Any Tom Dick and Harry into their world right versus the technique of disqualifying so that quality goes up yeah I think it comes down I'm someone who can I'm someone who when I show up and I can t like sense the tensity between the the seller or

the buyer or whoever I'm working with if it's an awkward interaction if I'm knocking on their door showing up to an appointment you force that lead they're for some reason people are willing to invite you To their house and they do not want to know who the hell you are it doesn't make any sense to me but I've had that before and I think that if I'm showing up to the door and I'm confident I'm like this this is going to be great like hey how are you you know Brandon good to see you I

had a great call and you're like oh welcome in come inside my house my kids are upstairs you're a stranger but I trust you based off our phone call I think just understanding that because I've had people who who have not shown up to appointments and I drove two hours to to to listing appointment and no one opened the door and I drove home looking feeling like a clown yeah yeah no doubt are you doing anything from a tactic perspective of like okay I set this appointment on let's just say Thursday afternoon today's Tuesday or

or do you just hang up the phone and hope they show up or do you do anything in between there no I I always try to better I Always try to at least have another conversation with them um Some people prefer different strategies approaches to it but if I don't have another conversation to them if they don't respond I just won't show up even if they don't respond and they show up that's their fault because I gave them multiple warnings of like hey I'm only showing up if I can actually communicate with you I'm not

going to show up if I'm not getting any communication back Whether it's a simple text of saying hey I look forward seeing you later today being courteous and professional I consider it if they're not responding I just I don't show up either got so that other the second piece of communication when you set an appointment is simply just to confirm the the time of the appointment is that right is there anything else that you're doing or saying yeah I mean in the process for example it's like I hang up the phone And they've either said

hey we want to click your resume or we don't I'll either mail it to them I'll email it to them they'll usually fall up and say hey we got it if they don't if they don't get it I have the tracking number I just want to see if they got the resume they have any questions for IT um I always do try to ask if hey can we have a call before I meet you on this day and then if I had if I never had the opportunity of getting the question of The Upfront Close

on the first call I'll try to do it in the second call say hey I have an agreement if we break it down together and you feel like hey I think Mark's the right agent for me is there anything that would not allow you to move forward on Thursday at 1 pm with me as your agent yeah you know we have to wait till March because my mom-in-law still lives here and she's moving out okay that makes sense well I'll leave it with you I'll just make them feel comfortable About it love it so good

it's great so um now let's shift gears and talk about the actual appointment itself so we talked about prospecting we talked about what lead sources you are working we talked about where you're getting your leads from Etc we talked about all that um actually before the listing appointment just quickly I don't even know how good or not good you are at this talk to us about the how lead followup has played a role in your Business personally some agents are great at it some agents are not what I tend to find which I'm going to

find out right now is that most agents that go after expire cancel withdrawn aren't very good at lead followup there there's such good salespeople that most of their business comes from that first Contact to appointment set that they don't really actually have a pipeline but how has that played a role in your business followup is is everything for me expires And cancel I have a Google sheet it's about 10 rows I mean starting from the name to the type of lead that I got to um the day that I called them the day I sent

you a thank you card the notes the MLS number so anytime I'm calling through them I usually have a day that's in my in my opinion in my calendar it's locked out for Wednesdays call it you consider it calling hot and cold leads if I'm calling them then you know we had a conversation that I can pick up on but If I'm reviewing my follow-up calls and I say this is not a follow-up wor you call just yet I'm gonna push it I'm not going to prematurely call the lead because that could def that could

just diffuse any any potential I had to light something up you know yeah I love it and if you had to guess I don't know if you know this number but what percentage of the listing appointments you actually go on come from lead followup versus that first initial phone call good guess if I Do 10 in the last month I would probably say seven or six or lead followup it's huge it's massive I mean that's really really good and that's where I think a lot of agents that Prospect this type of business are falling short

that's probably a whole other episode in it by itself because 60 to in other words 60 to 70% of your total income comes out of lead follow-up like that's how important this thing is and so uh a lot of Agents they get stuck In what I call First Contact itis which they're super good at making the initial call and whatever they get from that initial conversation whatever leads they get whatever appointments they get from that first call is what they get because from there things kind of just fall apart so lead followup for you has

been literally almost the biggest substantial piece of your entire business is that true 100% And if I want to if I could say something Brandon is that okay yeah Please so the reason I've I've say six to seven is because I feel like that's a very conservative number but it's also in my opinion when I say that it hurts me because I feel like it's not enough yeah for example I'm trying to buy a new car and if I show up to a car dealership I'm always just driving by them and I stop in and

see what they have no one effing follows up with me that's right it actually irritates me I'm giving you my number I'll give you what I want can You just please give me a call I tell my wife all the time I go to the dealership we sit down we talk about pricing here's what you can do there's this this I'm like okay this is great this is the car I want I'll call you back next week I need I need to think about it with my wife they don't follow up and I'm like I

really want the car but I'm not going to buy it because I feel a disservice with you not following up I just genuinely won't buy the car so I can only imagine What they're like when you're selling a two or three or $1 million doll home they're like hey give a crap and call me back it it you're so right and that is why most agents fall short of their financial goals is because of their misunderstanding of lead follow-up you see lead followup is the only evidence that a prospect has to how it's going to

be when they do business with you and so for most people that have a lack of followup there is no reason there's no Compelling reason as to why to your point the prospect should engage with you and therefore what I'm saying is Mark most agents are like oh I you know I don't want to be annoying I I don't want to just be the follow-up guy and they have this lack of lead follow-up and they have no business yeah versus the other people who follow up all the time are the ones with all the business

and so you've probably dealt with that too it's like ah I don't know uh I don't Know what to say it's like just follow up following up too much can never hurt following up too little can absolutely crush your business right yeah yeah I think I mean there's key words to it burn it's sales 101 I'm hoping everyone here knows to use the word follow up or Circle back I mean that's just pretty simple stuff but that's right you want to have a diff an interesting conversation I'll always call them if I'm calling them two

or TW once or twice A month it's a neighborhood update it's a market update and it's something that's saying hey I don't know who you're interviewing right now but I just had an open house a mile away from you I had 20 freaking people at my house and I know for a fact 15 of them would be interested in your house and that stuff like that has won me listing agreements they're like hey we we know you're in the market and no other agent gave us this information we really want to work With you love

it all right now let's transfer over to the listing presentation so this is probably the most important part of a listing agent's business the ability to have a compelling presentation or there the lack of so there's so much when it comes to the listing presentation we don't have time to go through that whole thing however is there maybe one two or three parts of your listing presentation that you've learned that really really make The difference as to having somebody hire you or not hire you yeah I think the big one of the biggest factors for

me was learning and and asking them upfront saying hey can I be honest like I I fully agree I give you the permission to fire me if you want and and setting that setting that framework with them up front of saying hey I'm here as someone who's trying to be an employee to you as the employer and that concept them just immediately gives them Comfort I'm I'm here to just guide you through the process this is what I have and this is where I'm at um also my close on site ratio brand is really not

that high I don't force my clients to sign any agreements with me so sometimes I wish I should have or I could have but in my experience if I'm reading the seller they really don't want to sign that agreement right right there and then and I feel like if I make them sign it they're just going to call me and Because I have that no handcuff Clause hey sorry next week we decided not to sell our house and then see it on the market so I I just feel like just being completely comfortable with the

client and allowing them to really just take control of the conversation in the sense of if they're talking I'll just let them talk I don't need to run my script or run my strategy approach behind it because half the time I show up like I did on last Thursday the first word I Walked into the house like how are you going to Stage my house and I'm like I had like 18 minutes before I got to the staging aspect of it but I guess we can jump right in and the whole script went out the

door typically I would have broke down a year ago but if I could just take that on and then slowly weave them back in that was the biggest thing for me yeah I love it I love it I think that it's so important as to how you set up these Conversations that will determine how the conversation goes where most people aren't setting any type of an agenda they don't have any you know upfront foreshadow or agreements and the presentation goes all over the place um and so I love that fact what about like navigating the

conversation with sellers around the price of their home again some agents get good at prospecting they get good at setting appointments they get good at going on appointments they Even get good at getting people to sign contracts and you know what they can't sell anything all their listings expire because they buy the listing and by buying the listing I know you know what that means they just go in and tell sellers whatever they want to hear whatever price they tell them they take it at whatever commission they can get knowing that the home is not

going to sell so how are you actually not only able to take the listing but ensure that When you take a listing we call it sailable in in other words when you take a listing you have a philosophy that that thing is going to get sold how are you navigating that conversation with sellers I've only had one listing that never sold after I took it amazing the other one that I considered technically one who that actually didn't sell was they didn't even they paid for the photos they paid for everything and they were like hey

we want to list it at this Price and I was like you're way over above it but I invested zero time into it and I was okay with doing that I felt they were okay with that we made an agreement I was like okay I won't waste my time at an overprice listing um but in my opinion I'm not scared to talk about the price it's not I mean I'm there as an adviser I always put on the framework I built my career on on you know wanting to Prospect and I say I built my

career on wanting to be a Serious adviser not someone who posts reals that's why I've avoided social media like like a plague until you know until the time is right in my opinion but I talk about it I talk about the things they don't want to talk about I tell them hey I'm not the most I'm not the cheapest agent for you but here's the services I provide um and if I tell them up front hey this home across the street is better than yours and it's sold for a lower price than what you're Thinking

I can't get your home sold and I don't think I'm the right agent for you if you're going to fight me on that because the data here is real and I can show you this house you want see it it's amazing I mean we call that disarming honesty and how did you did you get that type of confidence and courage through failure in other words it took me a little while to get there I didn't have it right when I first started 20 years ago the reason That got me there was from all the time

that I failed over and over and over and over again I always tell the story My so my story is a little different than yours my first 20 listings all failed to sell every single one why because I was so good at sales but I was not the expert adviser that you're talking about I could take listings left and right you know I could just take them take them take them take them take them but they all failed to sell it took Me a lot of that failure to get to the point where I know

where the landmines are and I know that I have to actually do what most agents can't do which is to shoot the seller absolutely straight other wise it's going to backfire on me and so sounded like you just got there right from the start or did you have to get there through some Growing Pains I got I got through through some shitty clients Justa who have made my life hell and it was only two or three times but I It was so bad I still don't like thinking about it to this day and I just

I just I don't I don't go to those appointments if I even sense that on the phone and and that's exactly right and that's the difference between a top producer such as yourself and everybody else for everybody that missed that let me explain what you just said I'll put it in these terms you do so much prospecting Mark that you actually have a choice on who you get to work with Versus all the agents who never Prospect who just take the crumbs that you leave for them you see the agents are taking they're they're working

in the wake of Agents like you meaning you do so much prospecting you get the best clients and the Agents that don't do any prospecting they don't have any choice they have to take what they get so they end up with the shittiest clients with the most worst listings at the worst price with the most unmotivated seller the he the The the the clients from hell because that's all they can get because the top producers like you have said no and so we always talk about like if you Prospect a lot it gives you choices

and I think that's what you're talking about is that right that's 100% right I mean you know it's I couldn't have said better honestly you live from a world of abundance because you have so many choices because you talk to so many people and so you have this it's not a Fake mindset of abundance you know we talk about have the mindset of abundance well you can't you can only fake that for so long until you're like dude I'm desperate man I'm gonna go and broke I need the actual money no you see you actually

live abundance because you you have an abundance type of action plan you do so much prospecting that it's easy for you to say no to a prospect that isn't super motivated it's easy for you to say no to a listing at an Appointment where the seller just isn't super super motivated because you're not worried about getting more appointments is that right that's 100% right I mean I I I consider in the way sometimes if I'm at an appointment I'll say well I enjoy giving this person a Tuesday update call am I gonna is it gonna

suck am I gonna say hey I don't know what's going on with your house I can't do anything to sell it and they're going to cuss me out because I genuinely want to enjoy Calling my client I would genuinely want to enjoy inviting you to my holiday party I I don't want to block block you from my phone and never talk to you ever again or even I'm scared of you coming after me like with bad reviews and stuff like that it's not worth it for me to have that headache it's just not worth it

and again just to be really clear on this point and then we're gonna open this up for Q&A you guys the only way you can actually get there for real for Real is because of the amount of prospecting you're doing so what I mean by that Mark and I want you to speak on this last point and then you guys can throw your your questions uh down below and I'll grab them if you are only going on one listing appointment per month that would be tough to behave that way versus is when you set a

plethora of appointments and then you get to choose which ones you want to actually go on you're able To approach that from an abundance mindset does that make sense that's that's 100% right so that's the key takeaway for everybody that's listening to this live or maybe on the replay I get it I understand that if you've only gone on two listing appointments this whole year I mean the fact of the matter Mark is I don't know if you know this 50% of all lenses have yet to sell one house in 2024 yeah 50% so if

you've only gone on One appointment of course you wkak of commission breath of course you wreak of desperation of course you're going to take the listing at whatever price you can get it at under whatever terms you can take it at uh that's why these agents behave that way and so if we don't want to behave that way in 2025 we have to actually have an abundance type uh activity plan where we do a lot of activity so that we could be more picky and choosy okay all right So last thing and then you guys

again throw your questions in the comments and if there aren't any questions mark we can let you off early but um can you walk us through what you do when you take a listing are there things that you do to bring the property to the open market such that you put its best foot forward to make sure you get it sold Brandon I I didn't catch that could you say it again yeah so after you take the listing someone signs a contract yeah What are some things that you do to service your listing to make

sure that that client has an awesome experience um really I think it's just I think it's I have a high level of standards and everything that I do so for me like I I I drove an hour last week to go to the house to set it up as we went live to go patch drywall and touch up some pain sure because couldn't get a handyman out there on a short nose you couldn't do this you couldn't do That I wasn't going to let the house be shown with something like that so I think it's

just from the followup to the emails that I'm sending them to the CMAs that I'm providing to them if they have a new competitor on the market it's just I want to see like okay am I happy with the product okay I'm happy with it but if they're not happy with it then it's it's not on my end unless it is and we're just completely unparallel it's just always trying to give them the best Service that I'm happy with yeah I love it and I think you do something that I I obsess about which the

way that I know if it's a when you talk about the product you're talking about the service in which you deliver the way that I look at that I don't know if you look at this the same way or differently is I'm constantly studying my competition all the time day and night and so are you spending time looking at all the other actives that You're competing with I'm always doing that but I'm always looking at what the number one agent in my market is doing and some of the stuff just blows me away like I

have albums if I go on my phone I'll just scroll with screen screenshots of stuff that I don't have implemented that they should they would kick my ass on in a listing appointment and for me that that is enough for me to say okay these are the things I need to start adding and the more and more I Implement To be honest that's the more and more I get my confidence from because if someone is doing 200 300 million a year is doing this and I'm doing this at 30 I'm going the right way like

what would you give like what are some examples I think the way even the level of marketing that they use they don't cheap out I mean I'm not I'm showing up to listing appointment they're expecting I'm telling them hey I'm spending $3 to $4,000 on marketing your house without The certainty of it selling not for me to just quickly sell it in a week and spend 500 bucks in marketing I actually want to make my own Financial investment into you as a client to sell your home in the best possible way I actually want you

to stand out I don't want another shitty photographer at your house like the last time that's great absolutely like actually putting forth something that tangible value to put a great product out there and that shows up in The work that you do it's amazing um all right so just a couple question here there's actually not a ton this week believe it or not um I sell real estate in sanini California which is the very bottom of OC right above San Diego County uh last year I did 19.9 million in volume which was my best year

because it's my second year the year before obviously I didn't I didn't do that um but it's it's been it's been a journey that's for sure it's been a journey yeah I bet I bet uh you know out of curiosity you know um two years in the game so what were you doing before real estate that led you into into this indust industry uh I played college football um that was like my career if you will um and then I I came out to San clini I sold I'm originally from Kansas City I I sold

my beat up Chrysler moved out here with couple thousand dollars no car and I just started grinding I started bartending just to pay the bills and Then I got my real estate license and just took off man so you're no stranger to hard work which is what brings the unique uh which brings this story to life because not only um are you just newer to the industry but you moved to a brand new market I mean did you have a huge you know pool of friends there and a huge sphere of influence or or did

you not know that many people no the only person I knew Was my sister who I was sharing an apartment with um just to like make it by so no I didn't I didn't know a single person uh everything all the business I've done have been through people I've met via prospecting there's been no sphere deals for me yeah so that's that's that's amazing I mean truly and so because there's a lot of people on this Workshop right now that will listen to the podcast later that do sell real EST Estate where they grew up

and they're filled with all types of limiting beliefs and all types of Stories on why they can't succeed in this market and interest rates and the housing market etc etc so you last year in one of the most difficult real estate years in a brand new market do almost $20 million in sales volume what type of income did that represent in your Market yeah so earn earned income I'm I'm I have the luxury of having a really high price Point out here um earned income was just under 400,000 yeah so that's I mean that's that's

that's really good for your second year what's the goal for this year the goal for this year is in armed income is half a million it's half a million got it I love it big jump big jump um so so let's talk this through right so you play college football um which you know it is a job right I mean it's really really difficult to make it and so obviously a lot of that Discipline and work ethic translate into what we do today and so just going back to when you were brand brand brand new

maybe before we were working together like what were you doing when it come came to client acquisition what did you think about how you were going to get clients in this market where you didn't know anybody yeah so it's actually really funny you ask that so I started cold calling just because everyone told me like this is how you get business I Started cold calling like my second week in real estate I had no clue what I was doing I was just calling people saying hey I have a buyer you looking to sell and people

were just hanging up on me so then I actually looked up some of your YouTube videos and I was just saying what you were saying I'm like this guy knows what he's talking about so I was just basically just saying what you were saying and I was getting leads which was crazy but I had no I didn't know how to Follow up with them so I I had no idea like I thought they were just going to call me because we had a good conversation like hey come come list my house and that wasn't happening

I was seeing all these people I was talking to list their house I'm like dude what the heck is going on and then that when finally was like all right enough's enough like I need to get a coach I need a system because coming from football I'm a big volume guy like I know how to Crank volume but if you're doing the wrong things it doesn't matter you're just establishing bad habits so I needed a path I guess to follow yeah so again your problem wasn't work ethic I mean you were going to work hard

no matter what but to your point doing a lot of the wrong work still doesn't make up for those those lack of results right exact so if you're running uh if you're running a play a bad play over and over and over and over and over and over and Over again no matter how many times you practice a bad play you you still end up with a bad result would that be fair exactly yeah makes a ton of sense so let's let's tell the story so so brand new market um what who were you calling

like what lead sources are you working these days where you finding the most success so right now I really just call absentees in circle prospecting I don't call expired I don't call canels there's really like no physios in my market um And that's just because what I like to do is Target neighborhoods that excite me because I have more conviction behind it and it's just it makes everything easier for me like here in the town I live in I know the the restaurants I know the parks I know the schools I know how to talk

about it so when I do talk to people I'm able to add so much more value rather than when I was calling expireds because I called expired for a little bit it was Taking me all over the county I don't know these areas so I felt like I was at a disadvantage cuz I'm not able to talk in depth like I am about the neighborhood that I know know so I'm just targeting specific areas and cities so I'm just hammering those over and over um and then once I do get a listing in there I'm

able to then grow through open houses and meet all the neighbors because then I have proof of concept and I'm able to use that as almost leverage To then Circle Prospect again saying like hey we just sold your neighbor's house successfully there was a ton of interest you know you seen what's going on with values these days so I'm able to just get where I want to through Circle prospecting and then expand through open houses yeah I mean it's my favorite business model I mean it's why we're I Ben I see you out there it's

like this is this is why what I talk about all day every day like with with people that I I Work with even closer this is my favorite business model because not only are you in a brand new market but the other big excuse the other big one is but Brandon I don't have any fsbos or expired in my market how am I going to do this I'm like well be thankful you don't be thankful you don't have to even go down that path so so you're you're going after absentee owners and prospecting and the

benefit of that okay so the benefit of that is what you're Saying is you get to pick where you work other other than um unlike I should say expired and for sale by owners we don't have any control where those uh pop up and so that has people and agents going all over the place driving an hour and a half to an appointment there and a two-hour commute here where you've targeted this were you on the coaching call yesterday by the way I wasn't yesterday yeah I need to watch a recording you did you watched

it I haven't I haven't watched the full thing yet so so for for two and a half three hours we talked about targeting niching down this was the whole discussion which is so ironic that we're now having this conversation so for those of you that were on the coaching call yesterday right Andrew this is what we talked about now here why it is second year in the business doing exactly what we talked about having great success okay but now the the next Big thing with your approach is yeah but Brandon if I Circle Prospect and

I call more top of funnel lead opportunities nobody it's such future business I can't get any business so let's just really get specific here how how many and I'm assuming and I shouldn't assume but what is your method of prospecting is it door knocking mailers phone calls text messages you know flying out of you know jumping out of airplanes what are you doing yeah so I I just have Mojo triple One dialer um I knocked for a quarter like consistently I was actually doing 50 door contacts a day um my it was the fourth fourth

quarter of my first year and it just didn't seem as efficient to me as calling I like calling a lot more um and what I like to do is it's called warm knocking I have a good conversation with someone who let's say six months out I'll go to knock them then to get a face to face so it's kind of Best of Both Worlds so I have the efficiency of Calling but I still get that face Toof face interaction makes total sense okay and so and then are you getting the data from Mojo are you

getting the data somewhere else and putting it into your mojo yeah I mean I wish I could sit here and say I was super strategic on how I get my data a lot of times I just draw a circle around the neighborhood that I like and I just start just ding going after it yeah yeah so okay good um and so how going back for a second so 20 Million how how much how many units was that I know you have a higher price point but you can't control that but how many units are we

talking about so it was 11 units and two of those I double-ended so call it 13 13 okay so the the first question if I'm an agent in the audience saying okay great man if I don't have to call fsbos and expires that'd be great but the problem is that I don't get any business so 11 to 13 units were those from Conversations Wyatt that came from the first time you spoke to them or did it come out of you building a pipeline and you following up with that pipeline that turned into appointments later down

the road yeah so my first listing from Circle prospecting to be honest with you I don't want to say I got lucky what do they say they say the harder you work the Lucker you get sure I I called a lady who was getting ready to list in 30 days which doesn't happen very often but It does but it does happen when you do the the amount of volume that I think that you're doing of course it's a numbers game you're going to run into somebody for sure so one out of your 13 deals fell

in your lap and you hit somebody at the right time at the right place exactly what happened to the other 99% of them so another one the other one was an absentee owner I had called November 2023 of my first year he didn't convert until August of last year so That took a while but as soon as we closed that the neighbor saw what we did and now I'm getting ready to list a neighbor's house actually next week so it's like all this compounding residual effects of the work I did almost a year ago is

still paying me today if that makes sense totally and um I just want to give people a time frame right cuz was one of the questions I had in my head when I was a new agent I said okay fine if I put my head down and do this Like let me just ask you why how long do you think it would take an agent who's going to circle Prospect and call absentee owners every day five six days a week before they actually get their first sign in the ground I would say a conserv number

is six months personally love it it's great it's a great expectation and then from six months what can they expect once once their pipeline has matured yeah I think if you Leverage that first listing the right Way I don't see why you can't turn that into two three more listings because if if it's in a good area that's super desirable the open house is going to be busy if it's priced right and if it's priced right you're going to have all this traffic coming in and not all those people are buyers some of them are

neighbors a lot of them especially in in my market we're in a low inventory Market are sell to buy because their down payment or their cash buyers is Their house so they have to sell to buy so then you might get two deals from it that's what happened to me is I was doing these open houses and all these sell to buy kept coming in so I was getting these Double Deals you know what I mean so I was listing their house and then I was was repr them as a buyer and then on one

of them I was able to bring the buyer through the open house so now you got three Deals so it all just compounds over time but if you're taking A listing in a really good area that people want to be in like the volume of in terms of prospects is just going to come to you at those open houses totally and and I 100% and we're going to talk about that in more detail in a second so how many um how many conversations are you typically having uh every day as far in terms of new

prospects yeah so my minimum is 30 um so I have I have the Jesse its's giant calendar that has the entire day of the year and I I love that Red X theory that you teach because it truly is if I don't put my red X on there I get mad at myself I'm like why aren't you doing what you said you were going to do to hit your goals so it almost like keeps me accountable and I can look back and see every day in January this month that I I missed or that I

I hit my goal so powerful isn't it it is I love it it's crazy so you're doing about 150 conversations per week um and and typically I know there's Averages but typically do you know your conversion from contact to lead with this method so I've basically been able to through Circle prospecting for every 50 conversations I had I'm getting one qualified lead which sounds like a lot but to be honest with you like if you're getting enough contexts in to me it's like let's say let's call it two leads a week I'll take two qualified

leads a week absolutely you know what I mean especially especially at a higher price Point neighborhood it's like two leads a week over the course of a year that's even if you're converting at 50% that's a lot of money dude yeah no I absolutely agree I mean with circle prospecting when you do the the volume we know conversions a little bit lower but when you're getting two to three leads per week what do you constituting a lead like how would you explain that to the audience yeah so a lead for me so my my hook

question before I go for an Appointment is I'm assuming that you already have an agent that you're committed to if they say one more time so everybody listen this is what we been talking about for it seems like 10 years what's the the hook assuming you already have a rockstar agent in town you're committed to and what happens when you ask that to people how do they typically respond a lot of people like well not really I mean we know a couple Realtors but you know cuz people just they want Who's going to bring them

the most value from what I found very few people are actually truly committed to the realtor there's a few out there but I feel like if you can bring some enough value they'll think twice totally and and and so funny I don't know can't believe you weren't on the coaching call yesterday I mean this is what I spent three hours talking about yesterday this was the very thing where everybody knows a realtor so if you ask that question Wrong it will downplay right if you say hey well do you know a real estate agent everybody

says yes that's the bad question but when you say I'm assuming if when you go to put this house on the market you've got a phenomenal agent you probably are working with one of the top agents that you trust 100% with with your home right well not really no one can say that right and so so then from there okay fine so that's number one and then what else do you how else do you Classify a lead that you're getting two or three of these a week yeah I think a a really powerful question for

me is um is it option just to rent it because when that's when they start spilling the beans on on their actual situation of no we can't rent it cuz we need we need that equity to to move to the single story you know that's when they really start telling me like what the deal is um and then from there I can kind of start to pull timeline it's just it's Just going through the dart um I used to when I first started read the script you know like I feel like most agents do read

this but the thing is you could be talking to a prospect that' be like yeah my husband just died it's in a trust and they they throw all this stuff at you script's gone at this point so you just need to know I feel like what questions to ask to get the information you need to set the hook to then ask for the appointment yep totally and um you're Just doing straight circle prospec like you're just drawing literally a circle you you're not targeting the list down at all to downsizers or free and clears nothing

like that no because I I used to do that but what I realized is I listed a guy's house who sold he just closed on that house three months ago and then we listed it eight months after he bought it just because he had a couple houses he was like I don't really want it anymore so I I started to realize like Hey there's a lot of people out there that might want to just turn around and sell because what appreciations has done in my market but also I just want to be able to talk

to every single person in the subdivision like even if they tell me hey I'm never moving at least I talk to that person and now I know so I can move on to the next house it takes a little longer but to me it's like I want to talk to every single person in this track yeah totally it makes sense and so Uh can we do a little roleplay so people know kind of what this conversation sounds like sure yeah so ring ring ring hello this is Brandon hey Brandon what's going on this is Wyatt

I'm a realtor here in San colia I know I'm calling you out of the blue I was just hoping to ask you a quick question if that'd be okay yeah no problem yeah I'll be super fast appreciate it I was just calling about this property on 123 Main stre I just get the feeling if I were to ask if you Had any interest at all at selling with what's going on with valys you'd probably say not a chance right well no not necessarily I mean we've been here for for a while and we've been um

we've been thinking about it but we haven't really made any decisions yet wow you know brand I'm actually shocked to hear that just because of the desire of this area if you don't mind asking what about this property this area just isn't working For you right now well we uh like I said we've been here for for a long time and so we're just looking to to get something um eventually get something a little bit smaller in downsize gotcha okay so just a little too much house for you that's right gotcha that makes that makes

total sense Brandon and if you don't mind me asking I mean when you do go to get that smaller house is this an option just to rent this out and cash flow it or no no no no no we we we we Don't want anything to do with being landlord yeah I get that it can beat tough especially in this state especially in this state okay well well Brandon let me ask you I mean Before I Let You Go I mean let's say I were I'm not saying I have a buyer now but let's say

I were to be able to generate offers for you within the next 60 days would that cause any issues for you down the line or do you think that would be perfect According to your timeline no I think that'd be way too fast uh we're probably not looking to do something until um probably next year to to be honest with you is when we're kind of looking to do something gotcha okay that makes total sense so next year so it's not a fire sale it's not something you guys have to do anytime soon which is

a great place to be in it sounds like yeah we're g to get through this year we're going to take care of some things and do a little Bit of of upkeep to get the home ready but yeah we're going to be looking at this probably next summer gotcha and Brandon I'm assuming when you do start to ramp things up you probably already have a rockstar agent here in town that you're fully committed to did I get that right no no no we don't we don't no we don't really have an agent okay gotcha well

Brandon I'll tell you what I got a hop on another call here but before I let you go I mean would you mind you if I ask this one more quick question no sure go ahead yeah I mean Brandon I know I'm just a stranger calling out the blue so you let me know if this makes sense but you know a lot of times what we like to do for our clients here is when people are let's say 6 months to 8 months out we like to do what we call a preview appointment just so

we can get eyes on the property and start to give you some tidbits on things that you could do to to get the home ready ahead Of time that way to when you guys are ready to make a move it's not just rushan fire cell trying to get everything together would you see any value in that at all Brandon or do you think that' just be a total waste of your time at this point uh yeah that's I mean that's a great question um we I wouldn't be opposed to that um but probably when we

get a little bit closer not right now um there's just house is just a disaster right now so um maybe When we get closer we can definitely do something like that yeah yeah it makes total sense Brandon I I guess at this point you know I I definitely don't want to be The Annoying realtor I mean at this point what when do you think it make sense for me to follow up with you again um yeah don't you um yeah why why don't you give give us a call you know maybe early next year okay

early next year around January okay I'll shoot you call then and Brandon in the Meantime if you think of anything that pops up that you have a question about feel free to shoot your a call we're our office is just down the street happy to pop in and assist anyway share perform okay that'd be great gotcha thanks Brandon nice okay good so I was just going to say a lot of the times with circle prospects I'm not asking for an appointment because my appointment is the follow-up call and the followup call I'm asking for the

Appointment so the initial call I'm just seeing when to call again to ask for the appointment if that makes sense absolutely especially if someone's like a year year and a half out I thought that was really really good even the way that you presented the preview appointment value was really really good it makes sense why you would have a realtor over before you're ready to get things prepared I thought that was really really good and you're obviously Good and comfortable over the phone and so it makes sense why this is working for you all right

so now let's shift off of the first call so we talked about who you're prospecting what you say how you say it now let's talk about the importance of lead follow-up Wyatt and what you're doing there that turns these contacts or these leads into an appointment like can you walk us through uh the importance of lead followup and what you're doing yeah so this was my Weakest pillar if you will um before we started working together Brandon um I was just losing I think I counted I lost 8 million in volume last year because my

lead followup just wasn't where it was supposed to be so is something I've really been working on so the biggest thing that's helped me is a mailbox power has completely changed my business 100% but B is asking just like I did you when it would make sense for to follow up again because I never asked that Question before so I was just guessing so so now you were forcing you would you would say to yourself I'll just call this yeah that's what most people do so you're just saying hey when would it make sense it's

like the best language pattern when would it make sense to X Y and Z go ahead 100% 100% changed everything for me so then when they tell me just like you said January I'm probably going to call him in November um just nothing's worse than saying hey Call me in January then I see their house on the market in December like it keeps me up at night man that that's my pet peeve so I always call him a little early um and then basically when I follow up with them I'm basically just picking up where

we just left off about getting together when would it make sense to get together and just trying to add more value in the meantime though before that follow-up call I like to send them emails and texts of comps that Pop up because I'm already trying I'm trying to act as if I'm already their agent before I have that contract signed because then it's like if this guy's been keeping us updated on comps he's keeping us updated on our value he's checking in like why would we interview anyone else I feel like most people don't want

to interview multiple Realtors you know like I don't want to interview multiple CPAs it's like if you can do what I'm asking you to do why Would I interview anyone else I feel like that's from my experience that's what I've ran into is like if you can just give them a good service from the beginning most of the time I usually don't have a lot of competition that I'm competing against when I when it's time to present yeah we're going to talk about that pres that presentation in just a second so just for context because

if I'm in the audience I'm saying well mailbox power what are you Sending them exactly what what Cadence are you sending it to them are you just doing the monthly seller nurture sequence yeah so I have the the weekly I just used your templates basically I have the weekly and the monthly I just put obviously my branding on there and if they're selling I'd say within the next six months they're getting a postcard from me every 5 days if they're selling within the next year to two years I'll keep it monthly yeah and then The

the really the secret weapon is the is that brownie man that's every time I send that they either call me or text me it's of course law of reciprocity so do you send the brownie on the fifth mailer or you sending it on the first one I send it on the 5th but if I get a preview from the initial call I send it after the preview and I put a message on the Browning that says thank you so much for inviting me into your lovely home with you know just like some Some frr stuff

and they really appreciate that it's almost like a it's almost like a gift that I send right after I leave smart smart and then your emails and text because everybody wants to automate all of their followup are you doing these manually are you setting them up on something in your MLS that's shooting out comps that when they hit the market or how are you executing on your emails and texts yeah so I used to be big into drips but I realize that Drips are just so unpersonalised people um because there's only really seven eight major

neighborhoods in my city so it's really easy to manage um in terms of when something new pops up to send it to someone if it's in their area totally and what would that email or text sound like like you if if I'm on your list what would it what would it kind of feel or sound like yeah so depending on how hot the lead is is how aggressive it'll Be so like it might just be like hey John did you see one two three main street list for x amount isn't it crazy what's going on

with values here I I remember back in the day when these homes were going for 500,000 now it's 1.2 just like a little message that's like it's a little teaser but it also just shows them the comp and if it's not that warm of a lead then I'll just talk about the comp and I won't add in the isn't it crazy what vales are doing cuz I don't want to come off too salesy if they're too far out if that makes sense so I just base it based on how hot the lead is well I

hope what here people are hearing like I bet you 99% of the people that listen to this now or in the future have missed the reason why you've make this thing work it's all about the followup and the follow-up specifically not automated followup not throwing them and tucking them into a CRM and hit and go and it's no no no what you're doing Is what we call going deep not wide one you've targeted an area two once they're in your world you're actually nurturing people people not leads they're not just numbers inside of some database

that's Bob that's Nancy that's Jill and so when things pop up you actually know these people inside of your world because you've already emailed them and texted them which don't speak to this yet because I want people to understand when it comes time to present the business Has already been earned and so we'll talk about that in a second but I am curious how are you're managing these relationships do you use a CRM do you just use pieces of paper what are you doing to to manage these leads once you do generate them yeah so

for me the the simplest methods work for me the best um so I didn't want this like elaborate system of like I know a lot of people are big on tagging I use Fallout boss as a CRM okay I simply just set a task and That task autop populates to my Google Calendar so if they say call me in January I'll just set the task to call him in November and you don't forget exactly and then I'll I'll see my Google Calendar which is time blocked and I'll I'll get an email reminder call jym and

I'll just pick up the phone and call them and maybe I'll get 10 of those a day but then it's just a constant reminder of because those calls some of them might be an hour if they're chatty But some of them they might not answer and I got to call back so that's only like a 30 minute time block to an hour time block really you know a day to just stay on top of these people absolutely and so when it comes to actually setting a listing appointment from the database would you say that the

vast majority of them are are coming via the voice too conversation over the phone or because of your email text and mailbox power in other Words if you had to only pick one method of lead followup would it be phone calls emails text or mailbox power what would it be 100% voice to voice that's right so talk about the importance of that and and what that conversation typically sounds like and and why you pick that one so to me the mailbox power the emails and the text that's all just kind of like the sides to

the entree of a voice too conversation like I don't think Someone's going to get a postcard from me and want me to list their house right that's just that's just a reminder of like hey I'm still here I'm still doing business it's the voice of voice is where you set the appointments the voice of voice is where you get pain the voice of voice is where you build rapport and trust this the other stuff is just kind of just icing on the cake if you will just for them to Remember You and to take your

calls when you do call yeah And so for everybody listening I just want that to be a really good takeaway that if you're going to get okay if you're not going to follow up the way that Wyatt's talking about don't even Prospect I'm dead serious it is that vital and so if you're not going to do that right if you're going to Prospect and then follow up and not make phone calls I also wouldn't Prospect so stop trying to avoid and getting out of things and automating things and taking None of that works right we've

got to make the calls and then we've got to follow up with voice too conversation to move that relationship because it's not about what you say to people it's about how we make people feel that will determine how they treat us so when when does it like come to that voice to voice conversation where you're actually setting the appointment um what happens what what do they typically say what are you saying that says yep we're we're Ready now why come on over and and meet with us so typically it's I'd call it anywhere from the

fourth to fifth call where I'm setting the appointment most of the time sometimes sooner but most of the time I'd say fourth to Fifth and a lot of times it's simply just about asking for what you want it's just about asking you know you know the timeline's starting to close and it's simply saying Hey would it make sense to get together and you Know me take a look at the place and you know I can give you my two cents on what you could do to increase the value a little bit and then if it

makes sense we can continue the conversation from there like I'm not I'm not like selling too hard I'm just saying hey it doesn't make just like your language Brandon does it make sense to get together and me to get eyes on the property it's the easiest call of all time 100% if if if you're wondering about what to talk about and Lead followup that call itself is not the problem it's the lack of what hasn't occurred that led up to that call which is causing you to say what should I say because what you're doing

wide is you get a little reminder all these things have been been in place you've been texting them you've been emailing them you've been had tons of convers you know the person and it's like hey the last time that we spoke you mentioned that you guys were thinking about doing Something here just wanted to see if it might make sense at this point in time for us to actually get together now and then people say yeah yep it does I want you to talk about how easy that listing appointment is doing this method versus going

on an expired listing appointment because in my experience with a pipeline business model like yours the business is already pretty much won by the time you get the appointment has that been your experience 100% I don't I don't Think I've I've I guess competed against people but I didn't know I was competing against them they told me after the fact and I've never presented to someone and not gotten the listing just because ofor I've never presented a not gotten the listing before so you have a 100% listing appointment met to contract sign 100% close rate

yeah yeah makes total sense and and because just because I've I've done the work before I've even gotten in the door like I've already Been working for them so to me it's like there's there's really no reason for them to not sign with me unless they want to take a discount broker but they know upfront that I'm not a discount broker just based on the White Glove service that I'm giving them and I can already a lot of the times why another reason why I like Circle prospecting is I've already met a lot of these

people at my opens and I can be like hey do you remember how I treated you when you came Into my open I shook your hand I looked you guys you know I said hi to your kids I showed you the house in a very eloquent manner that's the same thing I'm going to do to buyers that come into your home so they can already see the value because they've already seen the proof of concept um and it's just I don't know a lot of people just tell me you're just different than a lot of

Realtors and I just think that's cuz I you know I use a different language Pattern I just feel like what we learn here is a lot it's very um non-traditional it's not like hard driver sales you know what I mean yeah and you're shooting people straight and just by this interaction you are very different like you are very trustworthy like you're likable you know everybody on this Workshop right now is probably like yeah dude this this guy's got it going on and so to which extent do you actually have to even present that's Really the

question are you having to go through the full listing presentation to earn the business or are those conversations pretty easy no most most of the time they're showing me the house and they just want to know my opinion on value and then from there it's it's kind of just that's it like that I haven't really had to like roll out the full presentation like I don't think think ever to be honest with you now that I think about it it makes total think ever Have so that's the other added benefit you guys of like this

this model it would be like Josiah you saying to yourself okay there's there's there's two paths it's like okay and I'm just looking at people why in the audience so you're like Josiah who the hell is he talking about so these are just people in the live audience right now it's like you can go path one right which is this lwh hanging fruit we we call it this like uh like those are the blood Infested waters the business everybody's competing with that's the hardest to get you have no control where that's at fsbo's expired land

have to be really good with your presentation have one shot at it you can't build a pipeline because it's one one and done or if you could be a little patient like six months patient you can have a completely different business and that's my next question for you is do you love your business like do you resent this at all From the standpoint of like you can do this when you want you can go on appointments when you want you probably have tons of Freedom tons of exibility there's no urgency there's no stress around prospecting

unlike there is when you're going after fsbos and expires can you speak to that um lifestyle yeah so you kind of hit the nail on the head Brandon I I have a ton of fulfillment from my business model because I like the people I'm working With that's right it whereas when I call expired I've never gone an expired appointment that I can remember because when I talk to them they're so resentful they're bitter they'd be like well I have 20 other agents that do it for this and I'm like cool how are those agents I

just I don't want that business model that's why I got into real estate and yeah doing it this way takes a little more time but I just didn't care like when I first started in the business I Almost ran out of money but I didn't care I was like I'll put everything on the credit card because I know my time's coming because I know if I keep having these conversations it's inevitable and luckily not too long after that it did that's right that's right okay so let's talk about the flywheel and then we're going to

open this up for Q&A so if you guys have questions for Wyatt start getting in line now okay you can raise your yellow Zoom hand we'll get to you Guys so what I mean by Flywheel is you do everything we just talked about for the last 30 minutes now you get a listing talk to us at the importance about how you're leveraging that listing with open houses for more listings I can't for some reason I suck at explaining this to agents because I keep saying it and people keep not doing it so maybe you could

say it better than I can say it because I'm not getting the point across that open houses is my Favorite way to get more listings tell us your experience in my opinion open houses are the highest leverage I guess prospecting you can do technically it's not outbound because they're coming to you but if they're in a good area and they're priced correctly there's going to be a slew of people there and when you're there it's simply instead of trying to sell people just get to know people like one of my my old mentors told me

just Make friends like people coming in I'm shaking hands where you guys from even if they say they're working with someone I still get to know them because a lot of people that they're working with people they still Circle back and they still want to talk to you you know what I mean cuz you're you're just treating them a little different than most Realtors do so what I do is when I get a listing I'll call around and I'll invite all the neighbors to the first open House cuz I want to meet everybody so that's

the first round of circle prospecting I'm not selling anyone I'm just saying hey we're listing your neighbor's house come on in then once we start getting offers again if it's priced correctly let's say we get two three offers I'll call around and be like hey we have multiple offers you know it's kind of crazy what's going on we have some people that are going to miss out are you guys open to Considering you know having some buyers come in and yeah check your place out right then after we close I call them again and say

hey we just closed here is our final close price because not everyone looks at Zillow in their neighborhood all the time I tell them a little bit about the sale obviously because you're involved in sales you can tell them hey this is what happened this is how many offers we had this is how much interest this is how many people Came into the opens and then you can see if there's any Curiosity on their standpoint in this low inventory Market we're in we're seeing a lot of neighborhood records because there's not a lot of inventory

so things are getting bit up so you can tell them like hey isn't it crazy your neighbor's house sold for one two what you what'd you get yours for oh I bought it back in the ' 80s for 200,000 wow what a return on investment and then they start getting Curious like oh I could cash out and become a millionaire you know what I mean so then you just start to generate interest and then I'm typically able to set anywhere per listing from one to two previews just off that I'll call it the 3 by3

method alone Y and that's not even doing the open houses open houses are you meet even more people that's just the circle prospecting around the open houses that's right and I'm going to ask the live audience what is the most Powerful marketing of all time what is it throw it in the chat let me see if you guys you didn't say the word Wyatt but I everyone's saying the phone nope what is the most powerful marketing of all time referral this is even more powerful than a referral nope nope NOP these are all good things

nope it's something called social proof that's what's going on because here's the thing social proof is more Powerful than a referral because even a referral they haven't yet experienced it they're taking somebody else's word for it let me in other words people don't believe what you tell them they think you're full of it right they sometimes believe what other people tell them but guess what they always believe what they experience for themselves so when they see you at an open house and how you represent somebody's other home you don't need to tell them anything they're

Experiencing it they've had their own experience seeing you in action there's nothing more powerful than that open houses is the only to why it's Point leveraged opportunity you have to show somebody how you work and get out of telling people how you work it's way more powerful then the same thing we Circle Prospect we have that we shake their hand put them in the database when they have time to sell you win the business it's really simple but you got To do the work why would you agree 100% And I the easiest appointments I go

on are people I met at my open houses mine too because they already they already know how I work they they don't they know I'm not the agent who just throws it up on the MLS and outsources open houses they they saw me in their working going up to every single per shaking every person's hand calling around the neighborhood door knocking the neighborhood like I'm I have a sweat I Have sweat on my head when I'm at the open houses cuz I'm running around and they see that and a lot of people respect that and

yeah you have the social proof and the the proof of concept that's right and so that's what we call the flywheel right so he does all this work I won't share my screen just for the sake of time but he does a bunch of lead generation cold cold Outreach he brings people in his world he gets a listing and that listing gets Him more listings and the more he does this I promise Wyatt uh you do this for five years you will never have to prospect ever again it goal man all the business will come

to you uh as a result of this flywheel model so anything that you we didn't mention about your process that you think is worth mentioning before we open this up for Q&A not really I mean I I I think real estate from my little two years of Experience is a lot simpler than than people try to make it seem they they try to make it seem like we're curing cancer here it's it's really just about doing the same thing over and over and over and over again like I my favorite my favorite like method is

what Kobe said about if I practice three times a day and you practice once a day eventually over time I'll be so far ahead of you that I can completely stop practicing and you can practice three times a day And you still won't catch me that's how I you that's how I you prospecting like I'm just creating separation from everyone even if you've been in this market 10 years like I'm just going to talk to more people over time than you that's right 30 contacts a day times 240 days is 7,200 conversations you do that

for 5 years that's 35,000 in conversations there's not an agent in their career that would be able to catch you and so That's exactly what happened to me right and so that's why I say 5 years 35,000 contacts later you're unstoppable so dude awesome awesome story like I'm I'm fired up like this is this is the best business model out there so Xavier let's go to you first my friend we'll get you unmuted go ahead what questions you have for Wyatt first of all Wyatt I mean I appreciate you coming on here uh this is

the business model I've been looking for I don't want cancels and expired it's just a whole another headache but my question to you was um for the preview uh what what kind of value are you providing both physically and verbally uh in terms for the sellers to actually you know see value in the preview appointment yeah so I think it depends on the house so a lot of houses need let's say paint XYZ and a lot of people don't understand a lot of the questions I get on previews is how much money should I put

in compared to how much I'm going to get out and I think our job is to kind of tell them like hey you remodeling the the floors might not get you as much as you think you know what I mean because whoever comes in if they they hate hardwood they might put in engineered hardwood so you just you're out 30 grand so telling people little stuff like that to add them value to kind of just show them what's going to Get them the most amount of return for the little the littlest amount of money they

put into the home as possible and also just having great great referral Partners like my painter contractors my Stager they are so white glove too that they help me drive the sale forward because they're able to get in there and they're able to talk like hey yeah we're going to be able to do this like this and you know they they almost get the client excited um so Having good referral Partners really helps me as well add value and just think about an Xavier like a home sale consultation think about okay if this person's thinking

about selling what are the things that are the most important so one is talking about exactly what why it's talking about hey so what's going to maximize your Mo your return that's number one number two what's the market like is it a buyer Market is it a seller's market how long are home Sitting on the market what can you expect when you hit the market right all these things is what you want to provide in that first consultation so that the next appointment becomes you just going there to get paperwork signed okay yeah that's and

then I did have a followup if it's okay go ahead yeah uh how did you pick your neighborhoods yeah so for me it's all just about the city that I'm in so I have a let me see If I can grab real quick so I have a map of the city that I work and I bring these to all my open houses because I like to bust this out and kind of like help teach people the town so I basically just picked different neighborhoods that I wanted to be within and I just started hammering those

neighborhoods so I picked like three neighborhoods so really call it 5,000 homes and that's just what I hyper focused on it's just whatever Neighborhood make you excited man like if if there's a neighborhood in your town that when you drive through it you're like I can't imagine having a listing here those are the type of neighborhoods I want to be in because they fire me up you know it it gets me excited to call because I'm like I can't imagine having a listing here those are the type of neighborhoods I like going after was it

and I think what Xavier is asking and I can help you out a little Bit Xavier is like was there any like if I'm in this price point they tend to sell with multiple offers really quick versus this price point or was just I want to be in this neighborhood these houses are sweet and this is where I want this is where I want to work to me it's just where I want to work I I'm not an analytical guy at all to be honest with you I'm not running the turnover numbers I'm just the

neighborhoods I like yeah I'm I'm attacking those Neighborhoods I don't I don't really care what the average turn time is you're just a high high driver it's like dude just show me the work and I'm just gonna get after it 100% you don't overthink anything if I had to guess no I just I'm an implementor love it zver is that helpful yeah appreciate it yep all right go ahead Susan yeah um congrats on your success amazing um I'm also in Orange County but I'm I'm in Newport Beach and so I love what you're doing with

s in San Clemente but I find in Newport Beach is such a competitive neighborhood you probably know like Tim Smith the Alton brothers like you have celebrities here and I actually do live in this area like I own B I've you know I've worked my ass off to get here and I would love to work my neighborhood but that's like what I'm finding is um the competition so you're Saying in your area right there like there's no agents that are like hyperfocused in the areas that oh yeah there ised there's there's a ton of big

agents here yeah yeah so how do you get yourself to be like you know like really stand out because like I mean your white glove approach is it's a lot what is here you know what I mean yeah that's what I'm OC clientele they have a different uh expectation for service Here than I feel like most other people in the country so to me it's it's I don't really care what a a big agent's doing like there's an agent in my market who's doing almost a billion in sales I don't I don't really care what

he's doing to be honest with you because to me if he's doing that there's no way he's hitting 50 contacts a day there's I just that's how I look at it personally I don't really focus on competition like I'm Aware of it but I don't really care what what the big agents are doing I'm going to talk to more people than them and if I ever have to go head-to-head with them they can show their amount of sales but I'm able to show how much I hustle because I guarantee you I'm going to call more

than them I'm going to follow up more than them because I'm going to be just more specific than them that's that's my advantage is I can be if you have 20 listings you're not going to be Able to focus on this one listing as much as I am so to me that's my advantage I just I just don't see the point of focusing Newport there's monsters in Newport for sure but there's show me show me a desirable neighborhood where there isn't a dominant agent I don't think that exists that's right and I would add too

it's all about market share right even if there is a monster in a market like the biggest monsters we're talking about might have listen Get ready 10% market share meaning nine out of 10 homes that get sold aren't going with that person so there's so much opportunity and I think what a lot of Agents do is say well I'm competing with such and such and let that be the story as to why I'm not going to do 30 contacts why it's doing 30 contacts uh regardless of who's doing what he's not worried about them he

was worried about his 30 conversations how many of your 30 conversations Wyatt do you hear people Say well if I do list my house I'm going to list it with a famous person or the Big Time person roughly I might hear that once a week if that so once a week out of 150 conversations he hears it once the other 149 people they don't would that be fair yeah I feel like most people you know they're not best friends with with Realtors they might have seen this guy's billboard around but that doesn't really that doesn't

really mean much you know Like if you're there and you're on it what what reason do they have to go talk to that guy you know yeah that's how I look at it at least great another question that I do have because I changed my model because I was also doing 31 contact a day and I I appreciate the W glove approach is that I was switching it to Tuesdays and Thursdays being heavy followup because like what you're doing like I also do too like you know search what's selling In a neighborhood so do you

do that as well so that way you're not like cramming yourself like all in one day trying to do these follow-ups or do you just sprinkle the follow-ups and then do 31 fresh contacts a day yeah I don't really have a follow-up day I just basically I always try and get a a date or a month of when I should call him back so I basically I'm following up with people every day um I try to do at least five follow-ups a day Fridays I Send out a lot of texts just because I want people

to be thinking of me over the weekends when they're going to open houses or you know a lot of people think about real estate on the weekends but I wouldn't say it's like Tuesdays are for followup that's not really how to do it I just kind of just set in different follow-ups throughout my calendar as I'm talking to people and then whenever it's on my calendar I just call them so I'd say I'm fing people seven days a week Most of the time got it well thanks man yeah thank you all right go we'll grab

a couple more go ahead Ben yeah uh I'm in Kansas City so let's go I'm from Kansas City originally let's go let's go uh my question was can you borrow a listing to like do a kickass open house for it do you think it doesn't generate like the same type of uh result maybe yeah so I actually got my first deal ever doing someone else someone else's open house um and that's definitely something I Would do if I was a new agent I just wouldn't overdo it I used to just do anyone's open house like

it could be a listing that was overpriced and been on the market 200 days I don't think there's a return there I rather just call on the weekend if that's the case but if you can get a good listing in a desirable area that's somebody else's I would do that all day because you're going to meet all the people in there like that's I think I think that's a Really high leverage opportunity I just think you need to be particular on what opens you're doing because if it's not a good open I think calling is

higher leverage personally so Ben I just put in the chat um a podcast I did with uh pacon Robertson so he does seven open houses a week he he does a lot of them there's a ton of nuance in there and how to get listings from other agents that might be a really good thing for you to check out as well but I agree with Whyatt 100% you can absolutely you don't have to have any of your listings to do this cool I appreciate it yeah goad Matt oh go ahead Ben what we say yeah

go Chiefs let's go go ahead Matt hey white congratulations man like what a what a story you've got man so um I think this will be a pretty quick question what I'm wondering is because you're doing Circle Prospect Circle prospecting absentee when you have that first Conversation are you offering to do any sort of like price analysis on the home during that first conversation to kind of you know to get them excited to continue the conversation or not really a lot of people ask me like what's my home's worth over the phone I don't like

giving that number because a lot of the times it disqualifies you because if they've done a ton of remodel work and you tell them a million and they think it's worth 18 they're never talking to You again so what I I what I try and do is like I'll run the comps if they're just like I need to know but I try and get a preview first cuz I tell him I'm like I'm not an off-the-cuff agent me giving you a price never having seen the home would be negligent of me so why don't we

get together I can get eyes on the home and then I can run you an analysis 30 minutes after I leave so I I would try and leverage it to get an appointment obviously that's not always Going to work but I think sometimes running comps before you've seen the house can actually kill a deal if that makes sense 100% agree it's just like an appraiser appraiser would never do that Mt either that's why Banks don't trust Realtors Banks trust appraisers because appraisers go through the property and so to give a CMA without walking through it

is really walking a tight rope of like malpractice y oh well okay thanks guys I appreciate That yeah Anil go ahead hi can you hear me yeah we got you loud and clear okay perfect so Wyatt when you say that the people see how how hard you work your open house what do you mean by that what is it that they see that's so special that they like oh I think I think it's just the way I communicate with people when people walk in I shake everyone's hand I think that's really important to me I

don't like people coming in and you know you Ever been to open houses and some real churches are just in the corner on their laptop and they're like yeah let me know if you have any questions I take the complete opposite approach I shake everyone's hand I ask them where they're coming in from I I have I don't put I used to put food out I don't do it as much anymore um because sometimes neighbors who were never so like to hang out too much a little if you know what I mean um so I

I kind of just keep it Simple and I have a map I'm helping teach people about the area and I'm just I'm saying hey you guys should check this restaurant even if they say I have an agent or I'm not selling you guys should check this restaurant out for lunch or you guys should go go check out this you know this view up here on this like little Lookout we have and I'm just teaching people about the city about the neighborhood about the area and I think that's where I'm able to hook people is Just

like this guy knows this area and he knows what he's talking about so if like if I were to look for for something like I would want his opinion on it I think that's kind of my leverage point if you will I'm just really personable and I'm I don't view people as leads I just view them as people that I just want to get to know and talk to and a lot of times it works out for me okay uh then the same uh the same time you're all by yourself in that house do you

Have helpers who are actually making sure that nobody's messing around in the house upstairs well look at him no one's going to be messing around in a house that why is holding an open house are you kidding me usually I usually do it by myself sometimes my girlfriend's also licensed I'll have her um help me because if it's like if it's a single story with an ocean view here like those are like you're talking like 50 60 people coming Through it's like a house party so I need people I need someone else there to help

to help just like talk to people who I'm not talking to because I want to make sure that they always talk to somebody um but if that's not the case then it'll just be me okay thank you yeah of course Arion go ahead hey more all right so we'll do we'll do Arion Denise and Joe thanks again W for your time yeah of course thank you um so I just have one question How do you like to time block when you're doing your prospecting followup when you're calling back neighborhoods cuz I imagine it's a little

bit different than waking up and calling expires at 8 AM and then for Subway owners yeah so this is funny I was actually talking to uh one of my buddies about when's the appropriate time to start Circle prospecting cuz some people will get mad if you Circle Prospect them at 8 so so what I do is I like to get What I call I like to get like warm so I call the next city over that to person I just don't care about as much at 8 a.m. um and I Circle Prospect them 8 to

9: so then by the time I get back to the neighborhood I want to work I've already I'm already like 10 to 12 contacts deep and I already kind of got my flow going and then it kind of just warms me up and I've never I've only had a couple people yell at me for calling them too early and what I'm starting to find is I'm Starting to get leads in this city now too so now I'm growing like a little mini Farm in this city that I didn't even didn't really care about as much

just cuz I'm calling from 8 to 9 every day so I guess the time that you would start calling expired I'm just starting to call Circles if that makes sense yeah I think I think to add I think what aran's asking is there there any urgency based on this model because my AR 20 years is there's no urgency you can do The calls they don't have to be at 8: a.m. they could be at noon they could be at 3: they could be at right there's no I don't know if you've tested this or not

like but like this model does not require you to start a at 8 a.m. I think is what he's asking yeah yeah so I I personally just like to call first thing in the morning because because for you it's when you're most productive but not because of any other reason to be it's not because yeah Sorry go ahead what do you want to say no you nailed it it's because I'm most productive right I feel I have I have the most flow in the mornings and not only that I personally just think from a resistance

standpoint it's harder to get on the phone later on in the day cuz if it's if I haven't made any calls and it's 3:00 it's very easy to talk yourself out of making calls that day like oh I've already been on a couple appointments you know what I mean no I I Like to get it done basically I call from 800 to 12:00 every day and if there's still contacts left over I'll keep calling or the rest of my calendar's free what I'll do is I usually go work out from like 12:00 to 1 because

that's usually like 1200 to 1 1200 to 2 the phones are usually pretty slow um but then I'll get back on usually from like 3 to 6 or 4 to 6 and I'll grab those people who are getting off work who typically are open to Talking a little longer because now they're home got it so so AR does that make sense so like unlike an expired or fsbo where there's a strategic advantage to being the first voice why it's doing it from a personal productivity stpoint that he knows in the morning I'm the most fresh

and it's the most likely that I'm going to do the hardest thing it's like yeah eat that frog right Brian Tracy's book yeah get it out the way right in the morning and then that's Exactly right that's exactly right like at 8: am. you don't get too many people being upset like you're just calling me to ask me a question at 8:00 right as oppos toire there's a reason no because they gave me permission to ask the question I ask and ask they could hang up on me or they could say no you can't ask

a question and hang up they just gave me permission to ask so to me I'm like I don't you know what I mean most of the time they're like yeah ask great All right thank you so much and for like when you're doing when you're recalling neighborhoods and stuff do you have a specific time block or you just do it like between 8 and 12 whenever no I wish I was that organized now I just I just I basically just do clockwise through the entire city and then when I reset I switch numbers and then

I do it again awesome thank you so much yeah great go ahead Denise oh just un mute real quick Denise there you go there you go I was just saying that was actually my question also about what time does he call what time do he find find to be the best you know time to call so same thing yeah and again from a coaching perspective the best time to call is the time when you're going to do it consistently so if that's the question then it's always the morning but it doesn't have to be 8

right you could start this at 9 like get up take your K You know do whatever you got to do um but I just want to make that really really clear this is unlike fsbo expired territory where being the verse voice is really important he's calling people where no other agents are calling so whether he does it at 8 9 10 4 6 in the that's irrelevant um so the only thing there I think for for uh context is if you're talking about when do people pick up the phone then that would be the mornings

and the early evenings and the Afternoons would be the lowest pickup rates so if that's the question that's the answer but he's not calling at8 because of any other reason other than for him it's when he's most productive that when he's going to do the hardest part of his day it's going to be right first thing in the morning yeah sort of knew like um a year or two old would you avoid those I had somebody actually call me the other day he wants Me to sell his brother's house that died but um but when

I went to the neighborhood today I noticed it was other homes um that had for salees signs and it's just it's a new subdivision just about two years old so I was like wondering why it's people moving so quickly so so sorry is that one for me or brenon whoever either one so what was the question would you call new newer people that have own only own homes recently subdivisions I mean I would answer it I mean there's a lot of new construction sites that that happens all the time for job relocations and for who

whoever who knows I'll tell you the biggest reason is if you ever built a house it's probably one of the number one causes of divorce I mean that's a half joke but half real so they go through this two years of building this house of fighting tooth and nail and then they get in so so if you're talking about playing the Odds all right so then you would say well you'd have a higher likelihood of generating a lead from somebody that's been in their house for longer but that's not to say that people in new

construction don't also sell Wyatt I think would say well listen because he's so diligent he's like I'm going to talk to everybody I don't care if you've been in your house for a month or 10 years or 30 years I want to have a conversation because I'm building a database of Relationships that I know over time if someone's going to do something I want a shot at that business why is that fair 100% I want to talk to everyone in the city there you go all right let's get one more from Joe and then we

got to give Wyatt he's got to go back and do some more prospecting hey Wyatt thank you so much for sharing um it's always good to hear like success stories in our Market I'm also in Orange County and Mission Vio Practically man practically neighbors but uh we neighbors but uh I have a quick question it's it's it's kind of taking a left turn um I know you like to do open houses I do open houses as well um as far as getting burned out do you actually have a particular day that you take off or

how do you rejuvenate and just kind of take time for yourself so you can you know go back into it and and and get it done totally so I wouldn't say I have like a set day off um because I feel like in this business you could say you want to take a day off but then if someone the client calls you I bet you're going to take the call you know what I mean so it's what I like to do is what's nice about SoCal is we have a lot of places we can go

that are close but kind of far away I'll go out to the desert or I'll pop down to San Diego but typically when I do that I find myself still work working like I'm still have my laptop I still have my phone so I Just it's just I just changed the scenery so I wouldn't say I take I never take a full day off but I'll take like half days like I for me a day off is just not hitting Mojo right I'm still like following up I'm still talking to people I'm still moving escos

forward but I'm just not starting Mojo that to me is a day off if that makes sense and then just change changing up the scenery you know just to get fresh because this business does get stressful yeah I I Feel like that the same same way too is no matter how many times you want to just take a day off something pops up something happens yeah you always have to get on that call yeah I get it okay cool thanks Joe dude Wyatt this has been great uh I'm sure we could probably sit here for

the next couple hours and you provided so much so much value and again it just the there's a lot of good takeaways but there's multiple ways to do this business and that's why we Wanted to have Wyatt on and so man we can't thank you enough for your time today truly yeah thank you guys I really appreciate it yeah absolutely you guys have a great day why appreciate you make sure you guys get signed up for the prospecting challenge okay last day to sign up is tomorrow then we're putting people on teams Friday is the

kickoff call Monday this thing starts so get signed up we'll see you guys soon have a good afternoon yep um what does the Business from a production standpoint look like in 2024 we're doing this on November 26 just a couple days before Thanksgiving what's your production look like year to date um production year to dat I close 20 five and I had and I was on track to close 31 yesterday got the call terminating which jeopardizes the seller and the buyer because I had them on both ends so I was on track for 31 for

the year I'm gonna probably close 29 for the Year that's great that's great and just for a perspective so you're going to close about 29 sales in volume do you know how much volume that would be yeah it's probably you know what I have my numbers right here um in Gross commissions it's about I have it right here in front of me gross commissions is 231 year to date it is average commissions I don't know the volume but I'm I'm pretty much at like 2.95% uh average commission ver commissions 231 yeah and so for perspective

like how how does that compare to how you did your first year and how you did last year so My First Year I closed 16 deals um it was about 999,000 last year I closed 24 deals and that was about 25 and that's after all splits Just so you guys know and now this year I'm just at 200 right now that's great so that's nice good growth and so um talk to us let's get into like how you're able to do this right so sure do you want to share any mistakes that you made early

on and the reason why I like to ask that is so that people watching can avoid some of those early pitfalls that maybe uh you would have done differently yeah for sure so like when I first got into this um I had no Idea what what to expect with I didn't know it was a sales job sales basically career uh early on I was all about social media posting on social media I actually did more sphere of influence early on than what I'm doing now and that's probably a mistake on my end but I was

just sending Facebook messages Instagram messages posting um a bunch of stuff on social media early on and that was not bringing in anything yeah and the was that to be fair though was that That was probably contributing to your sphere of influence business though like I would make the argument that now you're probably heavily prospecting based and you know are you not posting as much content as you did before I'm not posting nearly as much contact content as I was doing before the stuff I'm posting is just super quick easy let me post this just

sold let me post this just listed and it's more so to just focus all of my time and energy into the Stuff that's like that I feel I'm really really really good at and it's not taking as much mental capacity or time in that sense yeah makes a lot of okay got it so so you made a transition from your business to hey I'm going to uh go from organic content on social media to a prospecting based business and so let's talk about what that looks like today so primary lead sources what are you working

right now expired fbos um I'll do old expireds um old fsbos if I'm Not able to reach them and then if I feel like I'm having a bad day and not really talking to anybody on the old expireds I'll hit either absentee or fori owners to have more conversation got it okay and one of the questions that people often have right when they're working that source of business is contact rates right so you're working new expired things of that nature we know that that's like the lowest hanging fruit in our industry can you share any

Best practices when it comes to like increasing contact rates yes so honestly most of my business the first two years was more fsbos than expired um I felt like I couldn't get a hold of any expired earlier on and so my first year was probably like 7030 fsbos vers expired my second year it was probably still 7 7030 now it's probably 55 45 still fsbos expired but this month and the last two months um literally I have way more Sorry I'm getting a call I got to reject it but the last two months literally has

been many more expired leads because I'm getting a hold of them yeah and how are you doing that like because I want to talk about how you're because what everybody wants to know is how are you converting these leads right that's what this whole show is about and so by 8:15 in the morning you are already having I I bet you that if we looked at because We're going to talk about this but you set just in November you set uh I think you said like 16 appointments or something yeah are the vast majority of

those first Contact appointments coming between 8:00 a.m. and 8:15 like one of the first voices 1,00% yeah see that's what I want everyone to take away you know like that is how important those lead sources are of being the first voice in that 80 probably per of the appointments you set in a given month Are coming within 15 to 20 minutes of your work that's what's insane and so because any you start to get into the 830 range 845 range contact rates just absolutely fall off the map would you agree 1,000% % and I have

I have I would have a phenomenal conversation with somebody at 8:00 in the morning 35 minute conversation I follow up with them two days later to reconfirm meeting with them and don't get them on the phone I'll text them and they are not Interested because they got hounded by like 50 plus reers yep that's exactly right yeah yeah all right so where are you uh you said you're getting your data from Vulcan 7 are you getting it from anywhere else or is that where you're using it's just Vulcan um so I'll get the new expires

new fsbos for empi owners from Vulcan I will start there um with the fresh new leads and then I'll export that to Mojo to start triple line Dialing got it makes sense all right and then how how much time are you spending to prospecting right now like on an average day how much time are you spending so the goal my new new goal is about 2.8 is my new goal of what I want to spend I sit my butt in this chair from 7:45 to about 10:45 now on the actual phone it's probably closer to

actually two hours in dialing sessions so about that love it and how many people are you typically talking to in That two hours 10 is my average I want to get that up so some days I'll have 25 some days I'll have less than 10 um but right now my average is 10 my I need to get it to 15 got it so you're talking to about five people per hour yes exactly makes sense that's what I want everybody to here if you're calling mainly lwh hanging fruit contact rates are lower but conversion rates are

way higher which we're going to talk about right now So walk us through okay so in November like what what did your actual numbers look like you know let's start with sure listings taken and then we kind of break down your sales funnel okay so listing of appointments met to taken is 58% now um my career is 33% um set to is 63% right now for November um leads to appointment set right now is about 64% leads per appointment met right now is 43% contacts per lead is about 14% contacts per hour is five and

I took 37 listings you took 37 listings yep year yep year to date yes yeah all right so let's kind of go through some of those um we kind of just talked about your contact rate um you shared some best practices there your lead to appointment set is unusually high right I think you said it was 64% most most people like we were talking about before we started are Hovering right around 20% and I think that we talked about the reason for that is because you're going after the lead sources however what can you share

as far as the conversations you're having when you get in touch with somebody that's helping you set the number of appointments that you are because what I want everyone to get is because most of your business is coming if I were to ask you what percentage of your appointments that you Set come from the very first Contact versus lead followup I bet you you're going to tell me that most of them come from the first Contact right for sure all right so this is you calling somebody out of the blue they don't know you you

don't know them and you're able to get them to say yes come to my house let's really spend time because that's where the rubber meets the road on how in the world are you able to do that so let's start from the beginning of the Conversation maybe with what you're doing with the pattern interrupt how are you getting the motivation and then how are you ultimately setting that appointment so very beginning um is that pattern interrupt I had an old one that I always always always use You released a video recently and ranked your best

pattern interrupts and I literally adapted the one you had ranked as number one and that has made people like die on the phone laughing their butts off and And I can I could share it with you yeah that' be great because I've heard your calls and I love them so yeah why don't we roll ring ring ring hello hey Brandon yeah this is him hey Brandon my name is Jake You're Gonna Hate Me I'm a realtor do you want to hang up or will you give me 30 seconds to tell you why I called yeah

sure go ahead and that's what they do that has been phenomenal so what percentage of the time that you use that are you able to at least get into the Script versus someone saying no no no no I'm good and they just hang up on you north of 90% I would say it's phenomenal for sure and and I took a I I have a really solid lead right now I used that opener and she was dying on the phone allowed me have the conversation I set the appointment it was an old expired and at the

end of our meeting she literally looked me in the eyes and said the reason I continued that conversation is because you were truthful you asked For permission and the fact that you said you just needed 30 seconds I thought that was hilarious and Brilliant she told me that so I thought that was like it's weird it's great it's great you know so now that you're able to get into a conversation I think the tough thing for most people and I often talk about it in coaching calls which is this the bridge between a prospecting call

and sitting in the living room of somebody is our ability to uncover Real And True motivation so what can you share with the audience that helps you to get people to feel comfortable opening up to you so that you can figure out does this person actually want to move and can I help them for sure so um getting the motivation is more or less trying to communicate with them staying put might be the better option so like reverse selling like you always preach and so for example it would be like I'm looking at the pictures

right now Brandon gorgeous home like why isn't this your forever home something that immediately like guard down and they start telling me everything about why it's not their forever home um the less I try to sell for the appointment and and just really talk to them about staying put or it's just again the reverse selling stuff it just it just works really yeah so you're saying in other words instead of trying to use an approach that I think a lot of other Agents use which is why sellers or prospects often say well you sound just

like everybody else is they take this approach of trying to call and convince them why they should sell and why they should meet with them you what you're saying so the audience has a has a aha or maybe a potential breakthrough is you actually do the opposite of that you actually make the argument for why they should not move and you're looking for the prospects who argue against that and And explain to you why you're wrong why they cannot stay there and therefore they have no defenses and they open up and tell you no we

can't stay here because of this reason this reason this reason so when you've switched that have you found that that approach has done well just that helped people to really really open up to you for sure and digging a layer deeper after they say that well why not just finish the basement why not add an addition and Push harder and they continue to like go further into why they just have to have to sell same thing with um asking them about the previous agent like when your previous realer had given you a call and and

sh with you why they believed the home didn't sell what they tell you well well they didn't and digging more deeper into that builds further a wedge yeah that's right it's so good it's so good right so like someone says to you well we've got to get something bigger well Instead of jumping all over that like most agents do because they want they've got commission breath you say well have you considered maybe just putting on an addition would that be easier versus having to sell and find somewhere yeah we've thought about that but boom and

they just keep selling themselves on their motivation for doing something okay now talk to us about the the ability to set appointments right so that's why we're making the prospecting Call is to get in front of people so now that you've got a motivated prospect on the other end of the phone what is your approach to getting them to invite you to come over to interview to take the listing like what are you saying what's your approach what's your mindset sure so you taught us the hook the the hook has been phenomenal um basically putting

out there basically more or less like I I get the feeling Brandon that even if you were to receive an offer now that Made sense financially that's not even something you're looking at now right like you're going to tell me you're waiting a few years to revisit this right no no no we would ABS we would absolutely consider something like that right now makes sense Brandon and honestly before I go can I make a quick recommendation of course sure I mean and I don't know if this would make sense and if it does then you'd

tell me right ABS yeah of course I mean let's pretend We did get together and I were to share with you a plan that was completely different from your previous realtor and it blew you away Brandon like it genuinely blew you away you truly believed you can get the home sold for top dollar and get South the way you want is there re is there a downside in exploring that a bit more um because let's be honest Brandon seriously like you're not going to do anything unless it makes complete sense Right that's true that's a

great Point yeah it's awesome and so yeah that's that's it yeah yeah it's great so so this is the difference and I want the audience to get a takeaway from this is the difference between pushing and pulling right and so most people approach that with like well let me come over let me come over let me come over let me come let me just let me just show that's their approach right and I used to have that approach 15 16 17 years ago You know and what you're doing is you're actually communicating in a way

that actually gets the prospect to pull from you you see the way you're positioning that is one it's fully it fully supports their autonomy in other words they have the uh the the perception that they are absolutely in control so that they don't feel any sales resistance that's all strategic so they don't feel any pressure and you're getting them to actually invite you to to actually come Over to the home versus you begging to come over to the home so that's how you've been able to set cuz like last month or this month you've set

16 appointments is that right yeah okay now and you have a very high set to met ratio because what ends up happening is a lot of Agents get really good at getting people to verbalize uh that they will meet but all those appointments cancel you actually have a 63% set to met talk to us about what you're doing in that part of your sales process that allows you to to to actually meet with the people who say they want to meet with you so honestly before it wasn't always like this so like before I would

never disqualify an appointment um meaning like ask them at the end of the at the end of the call give them permission to really just say look um I actually don't want to meet with you I just wanted to Get you off the phone type of deal so like disqualifying the appointment at the very end has been super super super helpful with that but immediately as soon as the phone hangs up and I already set the expectations of what the next steps are it's intro email video text sent throw it on our calendars ask them

on the phone call and I need to start doing this again um I haven't recently but ask them on the phone call hey when I send that calender invite over to you Can you do me a favor just so I know you got it and confirm it so I'll do all of that I'll send that intro mail her out and then a day or two later I'm going to add some value to them before our appointment yeah can you us an idea and that's phenomenal right so you disqualify the appointment make sure it's a real

appointment it's not a it's not a polite way to get you off the phone they actually want to meet and then you just walk through the steps of What you do after they said yes so everyone's writing that down and then when you say give them some value a day or two before the appointment can you give some context to what you mean um I'll do it for fsbos because my expired I'm just now actually getting through to these people so I have to create my own systems for expired but for FB it will be

as simple as and I stole this from um the fsbo King Austin Austin Austin yeah um I'll go in canva I'll take the PCT their pictures from fsbo I'll create it on like a little like one pager house information sheet and it looks awesome I'll print out six of them send a picture of the of the overhead and say hey Megan looking forward to meeting with you I did do some work for you um I'm I'm going to provide these to you tomorrow at our appointment I used to and I stole this from Astra black

send my dad out and uh I'll send crumble Cookies before the appointments and those I only did that if they're booked out kind of far in advance but I send those crumble cookies before the appointments and now it's like how can they possibly cancel on me at this point so I would do that before the appointment as well um the video texts have been super helpful yeah I mean that's great you know and so uh when I was coaching Asher we talked we would do hot pizza on the night that you set the Appointment cuz

it's like you you just sent me dinner like I can't just be a total flake and just just cancel like just flake on you can't do it um just curious on the fsbo appointments you're setting if I'm sitting there in the audience one of the questions I would have would be are you what approach are you taking with fsbos are you able to set quality listing appointments on the first call or are you setting a preview appointment or somewhere in between so If I'm setting an appointment usually the my go-to is like share with you

my opinion about the property also I'll share with you my for sale by owner backup plan in the event you'd want something to fall back on and I would I'd run that play for the most part I tried but I try to do I try to set actual listing appointments but most of the fsow appointments are through followup yeah yeah for sure they're not ready to do anything they're not really To do anything so so on the front end of a for sale by owner you're running like a hybrid appointment where it's like hey I'll

just come there show you something to fall back on that appointment is again it's a really good opportunity you can get in front of somebody and and so that's a whole another episode but I was just curious okay now so that's a really good strategy for your appointment set to appointment met let's talk about the listing appointment itself right the Actual presentation you have a 58% conversion which is really really good so if you go on yeah now and and it was 33% before the national average Nar comes out with it every year it's still

at 25% so the most agents it takes them four listing appointments to get one right so you're more than double that conversion so if we could spend I don't know five or five minutes or so talking through what are you doing at the Listing presentation such that the person feels compelled to hire you what are maybe two or three things you share so one thing that's helped with my appointments is again qualifying the appointment and setting expectations look if at the end of the day it doesn't make sense you have no wish to shoot me

straight right and if and if it does make sense you don't have any issues getting started with the paperwork I started using that so it's a better Appointment up front at the appointment I'd show up super professional um I stopped wearing polos it's it's it's basically suit and tie which is good um but super respectful build rapport during the walkth through and then at the very beginning um when we sit down to to have the conversation setting expectations up front and giving them that giving them the ability to tell me no at the end has

been a GameChanger has been a GameChanger setting those Expectations let me just pause there um I totally agree like if everybody in the audience can can and I guess let's just replace the word with expectations to agreements and that's what we doing it is I can't it's hard for me to find the words on how powerful it is when you're on the side of the table as the perceived sales guy that that most people would say you want something from me to be there and say listen if this doesn't make sense can you do me

a favor Can you actually just tell me it doesn't make sense uh I'm perfectly okay with that answer when you do that like you're talking about walls of defensiveness crumbling because when a sales person hides behind that ability for someone to say no all that they're doing is they are setting up a way where the prospect can only be defensive if all you if all the the prospect feels is that you're trying to sell them and you're trying to get them To say yes even if they want to say yes yes you have done so

much harm to yourself and so starting off a conversation that no is perfectly acceptable and and not only is it perfectly acceptable that you fully anticipate that to be uh a potential reality and you're okay with it allows somebody to just to breathe be comfortable they're not having to worry about being sold and then they just pour their guts out do they not I could not Agree more it's like it's almost as if they're like okay I can relax now as soon as I and it's it's awesome too because like you you you set them

up with please tell me no if it doesn't make sense I'm not everyone's cup of tea and then you go to the other side of it if it makes senseon say no yeah yeah it's just people aren't used to that type of transparency they're just not they're not used to a meeting with a salesperson And the salesperson being the one listen uh there's a good likelihood that it will not make sense for us to to work together like I'm not everyone's cup of tea I know that that's so refreshing for Prospect to say holy crap

and so all right so you set this up really really nice where the prospect can just feel comfortable with you uh is there anything else during the presentation then we're gonna open this up for live Q&A by the way um sure that you feel Really really makes an impact during that that conversation for sure so then I get permission to be brutally honest even if it's something that they need to hear not what they want to hear getting into your specific presentation um ham buyer activity report whatever you want to call it that has been

phenomenal because it it talks about something that Noe other agent really is talking about in the sense of price bracketing but also the actual going Over the comps has been in my opinion how I do it has been phenomenal I do what you do and kind of more or less talk about the Tam the numbers the comps but I I I go hard with spending more time on my comp so it's you have the one pager but I cover price I don't share with them what that price is I I say bed count bath count

location square footage all similar right yes I move on and I get to the interior exterior pictures of it and I'm still covering up price and I Have them pretend to be my buyer as I'm their buyer agent and guess what the heck these homes are selling for and it allows them to think what the price should be they get hit with reality and now it's they're thinking through the the lens of a buyer that's been phenomenal and just being super transparent even if we're 50,000 all they want 50,000 more when I tell them that

it's worth 50 75,000 less they thanked me at the end they said it takes It takes balls to to tell me that my house is worth that much less and I respect you for it it is a game Cher because now they truly know that you're detached for them from the outcome cuz that's right yeah so good so one you talked about the active buyer uh like this this this buyer exercise that you walk them through so the seller can put the buyer hat and look through the lens of how buyers are going to look

at their homes you know not through the sellers Lens of how they look at their own home huge I hope everybody's doing that right we spent I don't know a couple weeks last uh last month really really going through that in the live training workshop and then the other thing to your point is because you've set the conversation up such that they they they they want you to be so forthcoming now it's easy to tell people the truth hey remember when at the beginning we talked about uh my willingness to to be 100% Forthcoming well

here's one of those times and I want to talk about price so then they don't get mad at you and now it's not this back and forth conflict you're able to shoot them straight and get them to thank you for it yes because what agents do most agents want to buy the listing by taking it over price to say yeah I think that I think we can uh definitely can work with that price Knowing damn well to do it so every agent does every agent does because they Don't know how to confront sellers in a

way that's actually uh like productive it just turns into an argument so they're like we'll just I'll just take this listing at whatever price I can so the pricing presentation is what you're talking about right and that's like the meat and potatoes of a presentation you do that right let me ask you a question you do that right how often do people say well well uh what are you going to do to sell my house you probably don't Even get those questions anymore because of how you're able to position it yeah nope I I had

that I I asked you one day um about whether or not and I I remember this yeah um I used to present a bunch of features and benefits the reverse prospecting list I did it's going to be on Facebook it's going to do all this and it and it is it's it's it's not it's not on it and so I turned it around I took I completely went with your presentation For my peace of mind I I had all that stuff packed there on the back end and not once did people ask me about marketing

and I had to go to it it's just oh he knows the market he's a professional and he's going to he he really knows this this area and how to actually get this home sold that's exactly right and so I'm going to just end on this and then you guys if you have questions go ahead and raise your yellow Zoom hand Um it's because when you when your presentation lacks the depth and the demonstration to the seller that they believe you are a real real Market expert well then you have to hope that your marketing

is impressive enough to impress the seller but oftentimes it isn't because there's this knowledge bias that's going on where you talk about it's going to be on Facebook we're going to do 3D tours we're going to do open houses the seller like I've heard All that before that that is not impressive and so then therefore you commoditize yourself they say well you sound just like everybody else so what do you charge for all that well I charge 6% five whatever it's like whatever number you say is too much because you're you have not differentiated yourself

where your presentation has depth and the sellers feel your expertise and and again from the audience perspective you you don't have That much context because we can't spend four hours of going through the pricing presentation but when you can do that in a way the prospects feel comfortable with you representing them in the sale of their home and all of the fluff the BS the the this the that it's irrelevant it's irrelevant because I believe you know what you're doing and agents that don't that don't have any depth they have to hope and pray okay

if I can talk about this website and that website Hopefully I can get past talking about the marketing fluff that makes no difference whatsoever right yeah could um all right so if you guys have questions for appreciate you breaking all that down we just went through your entire like sales funnel how you're able to do this how many listings did you actually take in November by the way in November so I just got off the call um earlier this morning and they are hiring me so if I get that one signed it's one Two three

four five six six or seven that's great it's an awesome month yeah it is one of my better months it's one of your better months right yeah so it's phenomenal job and and again you went you oh you set 16 how many did you go on this month so actually I have it right here so I went on I went on appointments stat 16 met nine Stellar sign right now it's currently five I expect it to be six shortly yeah I mean that's a really good Month from a conversion standpoint too like your conversion is

getting better okay what questions do you have for Jacob while we have him we've got 15 minutes to answer any question that you have uh if you have any questions you can just raise your yellow Zoom hand we'll get you unmuted and you guys can ask Jacob directly um looks like you've done such a great job that people don't have any questions this week oh there we go okay uh let's get you fandra there You go yes exactly hey Brandon um hi Jacob thank you first of all hello for taking the time um a very

quick question you appear super confident and also like really nice so my question is you know I am like two months since I got my license and two weeks since I joined the program what has been your script like or even just this conversation practice routine and also it's two part question how has how have you like how has this journey like been for you building your Confidence from like sure being brand new you're one and today you're just you know you've got such great energy is really cool to see I well I appreciate it

um honestly I'm still a baby in the business it's only been three years my first year um I was managing a full-time job when I got into the business the only reason I got in was because of Co actually um my my I work for this Department of Labor and so early on they went basically um three days out of Office I could work from home and two days in so I literally was watching brand new YouTube videos and making my calls during all of my breaks my lunch break I literally take my laptop I'd

go to my car i' pull it up I'd make calls from the car and then after work I'd make calls initially to answer your question was all preview appointments I wanted to get comfortable in front of people and not promise like not try and sell them at all so I was just getting In front of people's to have this preview appointment and while I was there towards the end I would hit them with like basically more or less like do you want to check out a for sale by or backup plan in the event you

want something to fall back on I'd prepare for a listing appointment but I go on the preview appointment if they weren't ready great but I was there to just give value and help out I eventually got really confident in in being in front of People where now I was shooting for listing appointments that was that's what I'd recommend to anybody who's not as confident previews first build your confidence and then go on listing appointments super I love that that's like reverse confidence building in a way so it is thank you Jacob oh can I can

I say one more thing yeah yeah to get way more confident in in in the conversation you're gonna have know everything about That fsbo that expired house everything know how many acres bed count bath count square footage square footage of the B the basement maybe anything local anything unique about the property hey I saw that the HVAC was just updated right is that accurate the new roof that's a new roof right like you volunteer that during your walkth through and you you all of a sudden share with them oh they don't have to tell me

anything about the hbac about the roof about this about That because I already know that alone you you know more about their house yeah you're golden that that gives you confidence and then of course get comfortable with your comps yeah okay that's amazing thank you so much I'll add one thing too for Sandra as you're as you're going and then John will come to you just always when it comes to confidence I I think that this is really important I wasn't going to say anything but I I have to add this just from a Coaching

perspective confidence is actually a result of action it's not a pre it's not a precursor to action so so most of the time people are looking for for for this unfounded confidence to go out there and take action confidence comes as a result of taking action so never forget that the more you do it that's why I always say the learning is in the doing the I should be saying the confidence is in the doing so the more appointments the more calls the more you Do it the more confident you'll be because here's what people

do it's easy to understand this from an intellectual standpoint most people don't do anything they think the confidence is going to come from preparation and they're like I keep prepping but I still don't feel good I still don't I keep prepping I keep practic and and all they're doing is they're building up their anxiety getting less and less and less confident so confidence comes as a result of Action not precursor yeah I love that thank you yeah go ahead John um hey Jacob what's going on man so long time no see man so I got

the pleasure to prospect with you with the prospecting games and I already know the answer to this but I know a lot of people will benefit from this um there's a constant education factor with you and I can see it when with your callings and through your calls and the way you handle your calls so so can you tell the People the videos you're constantly watching within the program itself not not the free ones that's out there the ones we always talk about hey go watch this go watch that this really helped me can you

break that down for the people I'll hang up and listen yeah I'll start with the free stuff and then I'll go within the program the free stuff when I first got into this I literally listened to every single podcast Brandon ad with a success realtor call every single one And I took all these notes and I relistened to them relistened to the scripts um and I just implemented a lot of that stuff now getting into his paid stuff his game film breaking down every call and explaining why you say it with this tone anality with

this upswing why you it's just so impressive the level of detail Brandon's able to communicate and I just I try to really really think about that stuff constantly and then I try to just practice it obviously um but The game films are phenomenal for really getting good at tweaking how you're having your conversations on the phone and that's why we're bringing those back live and I know you guys are all excited for that so I agree and I've said it for years it's probably the the the number one thing that I do that will help

the most John and I know you know this John but for everybody else in the community um and that's why there's so important that's why we're bringing them back to Be live on Fridays like I agree with you Jacob like if you study this is where I'm really like where the rubber meets the road is like all the training will prepare you to pick up the phone and have the but on that conversation we'll determine whether or not you spin your wheels or you actually get the result and so um yeah spend as much time

we we have so many of them for you to go back and listen to by the way as well and and here and when I say study really study It like for example like Brandon doesn't like constantly coach this specific feedback that I heard but like someone will voice pain and Brandon purposely will say wait what was that and they'll say it again even more pissed off something as little as I think he said that probably once or twice and I took that and I'm like that's phenomenal like it's just those little things help so

much it really does those game films are good go ahead Mark Hey J hey Mark when it comes to the beginning of the conversation I'm sure you know the pattern interrupt and asking for permission most people get that down pretty quick have you found that adapting what type of question you ask next has helped more in like your conversions with the expired um can you ask that again so like after you get permission and you you assume that the house hasn't sold on the expired have you found a Certain type of question has allowed you

to move forward more often yeah yeah for sure so it'd be like Mark yeah Mark hey Mark my name's Jake look y y can have your permission y y after that I saw the home came off the market and I'm assuming that's because it's sold right I say it just like that I stick to the script um and that seems to work no no it did not sell my next one is is the script oh okay is that is that because you didn't get any offers the offers you Received were super low or was it

something else okay ABC I stick with it I'm super comfortable with it and and sometimes I'll like go off of that because sometimes Prospect catches me off guard and I have to figure it out but I I stick I I really really use that script because it's my it's the it's the quickest path from A to Z I stick to it but I sometimes I get out of it so Mark here's So speaking about game films we just did one of Jake's calls um no I Thought it was good dude I thought it was really

good um if you guys if you guys simply just go to the classroom and click on um game film or call review Vault Jake is the one I just did oh I did post another one today this is like 26 minutes worth of really really good tactical technique work like I would study this so much people are like where's the Jake Scott call where's the Jake scottt I mean all of these are really good um this one is I would say Jake's you can hear the latest techniques that that we've been teaching spend some time

really studying this call if you can yeah for sure and I use the ABC I'm real comfortable with it and it's usually after that that the you know they start to say oh well I'm going to relist or that that's when that objection or transition point tends to come in my calls so that's why I was asking if you were trying if you like Got in front of it before that or like you were seeing the same thing to have a deal you're you're saying after you use an ABC call or ABC question they say

yeah yeah you know we weren't getting any offers so we're GNA stay put something like that yeah exactly yeah so I think that's what he's asking Jake so like where do you take the call from there typically oh okay so basically I'll go the no you didn't get any offers Y and We're just gonna saay but oh okay so you didn't get any offers they'll y yep and then I'll say ah okay I mean I am curious Brandon when your previous realer had given you a call and shared with you hey the home's coming off

the market I know our contract expired but like here's why it didn't sell what they say yeah so I think the point is That's So Mark if you follow the new expired script it it will walk you through exactly what to do so when you get these Objections if you can just really focus on the arping strategy of like totally acknowledging them and responding by pivoting to the next question in the script it'll do Wonder don't try to recreate what to say literally just pivot to the next question of the script that's how it's designed

to get them to open up I have gotten PE people picked up the phone I I don't know how many times I have to tell a realer I'm not listing This house for sale oh I am I'm I'm sorry yeah no I if if I were getting a thousand calls like I probably wouldn't want to talk to a realer at all I was honestly just calling to see like I assumed your home sold Right Bingo just Bingo and and that allows them for that conversation to lengthen so so don't try to recreate anything there mark

just follow that framework and it'll help you out tremendously yeah definitely thank you If you listen to all these calls I've been doing on the game films recently most of the time even the one today I just posted this morning it comes out of the gate that the prospect says lit verbatim the prospect says uh this was on Zack Shepard's call uh nope you know what it didn't sell and I'm staying put but thank you and it ended up being a 20 minute call where he generates a phenomenal lead so go listen to that one

right to to to Jacob's Point like those Game films are really really special all right we got time for one more is there anybody else out there that has any question for Jacob while you got him right now front and center yeah Xavier go ahead what up Xavier I didn't I don't have any question I just wanted to give Jake his flowers this guy's a sponge I'm glad I met him he is like one of those people that picks up so quick and just implements so fast and clearly everything you're doing is working Phenomenal I

wish you the absolute best my friend thanks man and I know you I know you're newer but you're you're killing it too man you're going to be a beast I app you already are yeah Jacob's super coachable uh and shows in his work yeah all right Kyle go ahead hey hey hey thanks a lot thanks Brandon thanks Jake for this uh this wonderful uh session man I just had one question can you just kind of like walk us through your your followup um I know We talked a lot about yeah your your your initial but

how how does that followup look like my followup is definitely probably weaker than a lot of Agents um for expired I'm working on like an email type of campaign I got to figure something out um or at least just really take a weekend and dive into his his material but um for expired I have a January through December folder I'll have that conversation I'll find out what their timeline is I'll cut it in Half I will throw them in that that folder and then I will set them up on a buyer competition email or a

comparable like home sales email from Bright that's for expired I will now also set them up on mailbox power I started with mailbox power and I stopped it and now that Brandon has taught us how to disqualify leads I I started it right back up because now I'm not wasting money on that type of mail campaign for my fsbos I do the mail campaign I will do and I Have like a pretty and I could share it with anybody um probably in eight weeks email template campaign that I I a lot of that I created

from scratch a lot of it I stole from Brandon stuff um but for fsbos it'll be my call and the first like a day later I send them every single listing doc they possibly need agreement of sale seller property disclosure lead based paint all of it saying here you go you might need this when you find a buyer hopefully you find This valuable and I provide information about what they what those documents are the second email is open housee flyer openhouse this and that I send them a text and this is like a weekly email

so every week they get an email of giving value every week they get a bright MLS update on buyer competition um and I stole a lot of the stuff from Austin but I have the the flyer text a few few days later if I didn't set the appointment I'll send Them a flyer for their house to try and get the appointment in that text thank you awesome that um second week is competition watch so they're saying seeing all of the properties for that are comparable in their price point so it's just based on the price

point around and what their competition is third week um Zilla description update yeah it's just stuff like that that's more or less what it is it's just value can I just add though um and all Of that is great would you say that I don't want to put any words in your mouth how can I ask this where I don't influence the answer um of all the things you're doing like phone calls you know having a voice to voice conversation emails mailers uh Flyers uh text messages if you just had to pick one and you

only had to pick one and the one thing that got you the most out of followup like which tactic would you Pick and why Monday calls Friday text yeah so it's the voice to the voice to voice 1,00% voice of voice let me just add this let me just add this So for anybody that's looking at follow-up saying man I need this robust F if you had nothing but just a follow-up sequence that was phone calls only you would get about 90% of the results from your follow-up campaign than if you were to have an

a mailer a tech strategy a video campaign Uh a direct mail piece uh this that the other thing that only might get you like one or two or three percentages more than just having a consistent voice too Conversation Over time would you add anything not agree more my first year I didn't have any of that stuff I I closed 16 deals it was Monday calls Friday text I had a full-time job at the time and that's all I did Monday calls Friday text from pretty much all fsbos and I would call them my first lunch

break I'd Call them at 8:00 at the time I'd risk losing my damn job by just walking out real quick and making calls um so yeah the calls if you just make the calls you will make the money that that is it because because when we look at a business priority and then we'll end with Daniel I see your hand Daniel I just want to really really really emphasize this if you most people want to skip doing the most important thing and saying how can I just automate Followup and then them thinking this mindset of

okay if I have this really sexy mail campaign I'll just hit this button and then they'll just call me that is not what Jacob is saying and that's not even what's happening so like if you just look at all these different things this pyramid of conversion the voice too conversation over this thing that we all want to avoid like crazy is the thing that produces 80 to 90% of the result all the other Stuff can be added on um to later to help maybe move it a couple percentage points but you would never prze all

the other stuff over the calls it would never work right it would just never work all right let's get one more yeah let's get one more from Daniel go ahead Daniel yeah job appreciate you man um absolutely man you mentioned in the beginning you were doing a whole lot of preview appointments before you Eventually turn the corner it sounds like into more of a a qualified appointment strategy curious for you what indications were you looking for when you you made that turn like what what made you decide like you know what this preview stuff it's

not worth it anymore let's double down on qualified appointments so n do do you remember n did do you do you remember that name Brandon n yeah I do I don't know Daniel wasn't here around that point he so he He had like a script or whatever but early on I went for the previews to get the confidence what where I turned the corner was because I was going on a ton of previews so like I was going on a preview like daily Monday through Friday and of course they weren't necessarily listing appointments even the

slightest and so when I started like getting really really good at setting preview appointments then I just altered the script a little bit and I really really Love the script of for sale byy owner backup plan in the event you want something to fall back on down the road I still use it but I really really like the new fsbo script that Brandon has for specific appointments and I'm doing more that but sometimes I don't feel it and I I I'll go for the fsbo back plan um but when I started setting a lot more

preview appointments and I was like I should just start setting these listing appointments I do I went 100% into those And was that a pretty smooth transition for you or was there like a little bit of turbulence in between that trans transition there or was it just ramping up it it came down to knowing what the presentation was going to be for the listing appointment for sure um and really being comfortable with your listing appointment presentation um but the hardest part was getting used to the new script and getting comfortable with it but as soon

As you know that script in and out now all of a sudden it's a lot easier to have an actual conversation not feel scripted and actually listen during the call can I offer this this approach Daniel I love the question Daniel this is phenomenal question this is a great thing hopefully people that stayed the end this will be worth it for you so I look at what what Jacob has done Daniel and what I think most agents should do is is there's multiple things happening All right so in the beginning of someone's sales career is

they probably don't have a ton of prospecting discipline right so therefore their volume is very very low so what they can do while they're going through that first phase is they can get really good at setting like lowquality high quantity preview appointments right that's what I would call F one so they don't do that much prospecting because they don't have the the muscle the discipline to do Enough volume so then they go on a bunch of these unqualified appointments strategically and then what ends up happening is they they have this aha they they start to

because confidence is a result of action they start to see okay I've gone on enough of these things where I I can hear motivation I know what motivation sounds like I know what these conversation I know what they're going I'm not scared to meet with real sellers anymore so so then they say I I Just can't go on as many of these as possible all the while all the while they're growing their confidence and skills over the phone so they start getting more volume and then they get into this phase two where they say no

no no I I gota I can't do all of those appointments and their appointment quality gets even better in phase two so they start doing a little bit more prospecting going on less appointments but the appointments are better and then Finally in phase three it's their their habit and their discipline and their focus around prospecting is so high that they actually have another Aha and they say because I'm doing so much prospecting and because my skills are so much better now and my confidence is so much better now now I can be a little bit

more pickier and choosier I can have more courage to disqualify whereas before I didn't have that and in phase three what typically happens is they do A lot of prospecting and a very little traveling to appointments cuz those are appointments are such of high quality I would say that's kind of like this three-phased approach on how it happens cool yeah thank you that's great well said that was it yeah so I think that Ben we should just document that for people because it's like a really good because because I'd ask you this this might help

Daniel too or everybody else do you feel like you could have if You bypassed the whole pain of previewing that you could have gotten here at the speed that you did in other words a lot of people say well can't I just skip over the preview phase can I just skip over phase one and two and I'm like probably not I mean it's a very very unlikely that you could skip over that because of all the upside of phase one and phase two yes are there a lot of wasted time going on all those preview

appointments yes but what you don't Understand is how much you're learning in the process of all that failure so my question for you is looking back on it would you have done it differently or are you actually happy that you went through all all those preview appointments to get all that confidence to know what a real appointment even sounded like one I would not change it I would not change from up front and then go straight I have an agent in my office he follows your stuff I told him to buy The course he won't

do it um but most won't most he asked me he asked me for my opinion I said previews first get really comfortable at being in front of people and just making the calls consistently and then switch to listing appointments he went straight for listing appointments now he's good he's really good at um implementing your stuff but I don't know I feel like there was a lot of learning I did during that time I really do and Daniel I wouldn't Have changed it either I think you've heard me tell the story where literally after the first

preview appointment I ever went on uh and again I I got to end it here but like I in the beginning of my career I was so focused on quality listing appointment and dude that is hard to do when you're new to prospecting you're new to sales and so that's just what I was told by every Tom Dick and Harry right and I couldn't get any I couldn't get any of these listing Appointments that everyone was going on so I'm like you probably heard this story right and then I I finally was like dude this

is not working and so I went on my first preview appointment this must have been I don't know 17 years ago and I remember on the way back crying because have you heard this story Daniel yeah oh my gosh I'll never forget it I pulled over at a church parking lot actually and I was like thanking God I was literally crying feel like I cracked The code because when I first started you know they they everyone talks about qualify qualify qualify qualify right just go on these qualified appointments well when you suck at sales and

you've never made phone calls before and you're new to this that is so difficult as you and everybody else knows so you want to talk about a crusher of of confidence make calls right like a bunch of them and not get anything You' be like dude I suck at this or this is is I don't know What's going on so then what end up happening was and and I'll end and I'll end on this I promise but this is really important is time and time again I would talk to prospects for sale by owners expired

etc etc and they'd like no no no we're we're not going to sell we're not going to move we're not interested in meeting with you and then literally I drive past that prospect's house and I would see like a for sale sign in the front yard I'm like I just talked to This dude and the dude told me he wasn't doing anything like what am I missing so then finally I'm like d screw this I'm I'm I must be I'm like over qualifying this I said you know what I'm just going to get in front

of people that's all I'm going to do I'm just going to get in front of people and like it was like magic I I I would talk to a for sale by owner and expired say you know what we're never moving I'm like I get it I get it uh why don't I just come over I Kind of share with you kind of what I'm doing that in the event you change your mind in the future they're like all right fine come on over and then I went there Daniel and like the person was so

different in person than who I thought I was talking to over the phone I'm like unbelievable this person just told me that they're never selling and now they're they're giving me tea and crumpets and like well what would you do Brandon if you were to list our house I'm like how many opportunities did I miss because I sucked on the phone that I miss in the early days and then I started to go all in right on that strategy and yeah that's where the fsbo conversion funnel came from I had to go on 20 preview

appointments to get like two or three listings but it was worth it for me at the time then it was like 10 appointments to get to four then it was like six to get to four you know what I mean like so that's what ends up Happening over time that's all that's brilliant thank you for sharing that yeah no worries all right dude Jacob thank you I know we went over thank you Brandon yeah but that that that was such a good good episode man um I think people got a lot out of it so

we really appreciate you doing it I appreciate being here man I really do and I appreciate everything you poured into the community seriously 100% we're just getting started my friend so you guys Have a great Thanksgiving with your families we'll pick back up here soon uh appreciate you guys' time today you guys take take care he guys so now let's talk about maybe new client acquisition channels so let's break down the schedule your prospecting you're doing some different things walk us through what it is that you're doing you can't still be making phone calls after

20 years and knocking doors I mean obviously that doesn't even work right Wink wink I mean that's what we're talking about here correct absolutely so when you brought up some stats on my County so I'm Number Two gross commission income um and I've been number one in transactions I think it's been 11 years in a row um and then I think three of The Last Five Years number one in the entire state for all companies just in terms of transactions closed so obviously I need to work a little bit more on not reducing Commissions right

let's just be honest I need to get better about that right and and and definitely focus a little bit more on the scripts and and the value proposition and everything else but um when it comes to generating new channels the daily routine again starts the night before right got to make sure you're getting the consistent sleep alarm clock goes off at the same time I'm exercising at the same time every single morning And then I'm in my office by 7:00 a.m. follow up with any important emails that came in the night before but then at

7:50 that's like okay finish this cup of coffee and let's get ready put your game face on because when 8 o00 hits It's Time to roll and that's basically when the Buzzard goes off and you know you can do drills you can turn the lights on and off or you can make a buzzard noise on your sound just to you know psychologically get yourself into the Game mindset and from there to 11 o'clock is just it's just straight dialing yeah uh you know I I actually make sure I have three cups of coffee so that

I don't have to leave the desk for that amount of time and and just get through it and then I usually take a 15 20 minute break check in with my assistant see if there was anything to follow up with um and then back behind the desk to follow up with any of those that I didn't get a hold of or that you Know got interrupted by dropping kids off at school or whatever else um and then from there I go into um followup um with anything from the day before any offers that we're working

on right now and then usually I like to book my appointments from 1: to 4: and then in the evening I like to do a second followup with any of those hot leads I love it I love it and typically um with your business plan how many conversation does it suggest that you need to have on A daily basis and are you hitting that on a daily basis I I am I am hitting it on a daily basis and that's something where if I'm in my actual office and and I can show that and and

send you a picture of it but basically I just have a notepad yeah and it's got a a um a hash down the center appointments are on one side contacts are on the other and and it's just the old archaic I got to make 10 contacts an hour at least and I got to get to 40 contacts a day yeah and Is that what you're doing every day Monday through Friday right now Ryan yes sir yeah about 10 contacts on Saturday and about five to eight on Sunday got it yeah and so a lot of

people that that we talk to uh whether that in our coaching Community or just realtors in general they still are trying to look for reasons on why they can't be successful so when you talk about 10 contacts an hour we see the average being seven a lot of agents are like well nobody picks Up the phone Brandon I mean no that doesn't even work anymore but yet again here we are having a conversation with did you say number one agent in in the state transaction wise yeah last year number two the couple years before that

number one yeah and so what would you say Ryan to an agent who says you're having 10 conversations an hour like nobody picks up the phone these days are you calling expired for sell by owners just Lista just sold absentee owners who Are you calling and what advice would you give to those that just believe in their mind for whatever reason that nobody picks up the phone these days well I just like I tell my 14-year-old kid right excuses are like butth holes we all got them they all stink oh I'm gonna steal that right

I mean I don't consider myself to be a highly skilled agent and again I'm not proud of that but one of my greatest strengths is being objective with myself And it's the skill I'm trying to teach my son as he plays with Olympic development program teams and other things know what you are know what you're not you know the reason why he's not playing basketball anymore is because we're not a tall family and it's like all right there's five kids on the court one's the coach's kids two or 6'4 you're playing for two spots stick

with football and soccer so anyhow long story short it does work and anybody wants to See the 1099s it works yeah um but it's not what they want to hear it's it's no different when you know well I want to do the seven minute abs it's like okay it just doesn't work we we'd all have abs we'd all make $2 million a year or a million dollar a year and you know we'd all have the same Rolexes and everything else it doesn't work that way so that's right people do answer the phone you just got

to call more and that doesn't me you may not yeah that doesn't mean You don't have to call that expired cancel or a hot Circle prospecting call three four five times that's right sometimes they I honestly sometimes they'll pick up the phone because they're like why are you still calling yeah because I would be doing my job if I didn't Mr and Mrs seller and just you know get into whatever I'm going to get into and they hang up on you call back I'm sorry we got disconnected right and just you know keep it going

and Sometimes it get really nasty and if I don't have anything better to do that evening I'll just drive by on the way home and knock on the door and apologize you know what I'm sorry I offended you I thought I'd stop by in person to protect and promote the image of Agents so I wanted to stop by and just let you know I apologize and they'll usually just be taken back and open up a conversation with you yeah that's amazing so 40 conversations a day so my entire career I always the minimum for our

Mastermind to be our Mastermind of anybody who is earning a million dollars of taxable income we called it the daily 30 right you can't be in our club if you're not hitting 30 you're doing 40 here's the other objection that I'm hearing from Agents you want me to do 30 40 50 conversations a day Brandon I've got one listing I'm taking taking care of can you give people perspective of your pipeline how many active listings you Have and yet you're still doing 40 conversations I want people to expand their mindset because it's not like you

work with one client here or there you're probably sitting on how many active listings right now or pendings uh so let me tell you exactly let me look yeah and while you're doing that you you get what I'm asking right the agent's like I can't make that many contacts I'm Busy so I have 48 active listings 48 active listings okay and which is a low number for me sure and again let's exclude 2020 2021 yeah yeah if we go back to 2018 2019 that's a low number for me uh there's 32 pending right now um

and a very interesting set that I have not really had before even going back to 05 listings in withdrawn status meaning they couldn't accomplish their goal interest rates went up so we Couldn't sell uh because they couldn't now qualify for their new home or their bill job was pushed back right because of supply chain issues and things like that so I'm working through those and that's something that I haven't experienced before so I've had to call more experienced AG Ag and say hey what what other things can I do to get these back out of

withdrawn into active sure yeah and so you you you have a huge inventory right 48 and that's lower than What you're used to and you know a lot pending a lot going on you're doing this with how many staff members you you have one assistant is that right yeah just one assistant so so the question is when it comes to high performance you know the key thing in my experience has been our ability to not invite distractions because most of us are looking for distractions looking for the reasons on why we can't Prospect how are

you able to stay focused and get in Those 40 conversations when you have a lot more going on than than most right you've got 70s something clients right now that you're also managing with another human being so H how are you able to stay focused Ryan so obviously a lot of that comes down to the goals and making sure that every single day you're committed to accomplishing the goals that you want again the schedule's the most important if if if you want to get something done You want to ask a busy person because their schedule

is usually more efficient they're going to get more things done um and so everything for me always reverts back to having a really good schedule and making sure that you follow it with no deviations now when when I'm dealing with agents that are selling 40 50 60 homes a year for me I tell them no exception you don't go on a listing presentation at this time to this time because you need to be prospecting now When you start selling over 100 homes a year you've kind of earned the right I guess you could say maybe

and I know the agents that sell 400 homes would disagree with me because they're like no when you get to 400 homes you can deviate but the agents I see that do over a 100 homes a year can get back to the office and get back on their schedule without missing any steps so like you said oh well this expired just came up I better go knock On this door well that's an excuse to get out of those phone calls during your prospecting hours or refill your coffee or take a phone call or go to

a PTA meeting or anything like and I do have to give again my staff her credit she's been with me 14 years I I joke it's like longest relationship I've ever had with a woman right but exactly she uh she's amazing she does the work of four people so again I I have to give all the credit she deserves there because normally I Would have to have three or four doing what she does just like I guess most agents would have to be three or four agents to get the amount of prospecting done that I

do but the groups of agents that I talk with and hang out with and have been affiliated with in different states again they have no problem doing this either and they're producing because they're in bigger markets a much greater gross commission income than I am I mean we're talking in the three and A half to $4 million range and consistently doing it and so they actually produce better in the slower markets actually because commissions usually go up right you know it's been a race to the bottom for lenders and and agents right now and so

they actually produce better plus in a normal Market or going into a recession you got 73% less competition out there I'm not competing with the barber The Stylist the the nail technician right I'm just Competing with mostly professionals so the schedule is going to be the most important thing in in getting that done and then you just got to commit to it and you just got to make those phone calls no exceptions I I don't care there just isn't any exception to that at all yeah I totally agree so when I coach an agent you

know we we build out the business plan the business plan says okay here's how many contacts we need per day and then we start to talk about Something uh called Contact distribution and we say okay if you need 44 conversations here's where those conversations should come from in your 40 conversations who is it that you're calling is it mostly expired or can you break that down on who you are calling absolutely and and recently it's been a little bit different than in a normal market right so when interest rates were really low I was really

hitting the circle prospecting more Because that was just easy pickings for hey we can upgrade you and get you a lower payment um right right now it's definitely back heavy on you know the most recent canel fsbos uh and expireds those are the ones I'm hitting hardest so about 20 to 23% or 20 to 23 of my contacts per day are coming from there the rest of them are coming from sphere of influence and for the last two months honestly and again I'm just being 100% transparent I've cut Circle prospecting Out not on purpose it

just kind of happened because I was so busy getting to the there were so many cancels so many expired and a lot more for sell by owners all of a sudden so I need to get that implemented back in because no matter what the markets are I always feel like you should still hit every aspect now you might want to change the percentage of time spent on each one but the circle prospecting lately is has not for my market proven to be as good and Then you know I expect here in the near future we'll

probably add back into notice of defaults again a little bit more aggressively right because I'm starting to see those go back up yeah and just like anything else markets are cyclical and so the lead generation strategy is also cyclical we're coming out of a circle process prospecting Market back into the expired market and so as the market shifts different things pose as different opportunities so last Question for me you know I think a lot of people um really when they get into this business of selling they have a hardtime understanding pipeline maturity you see they

want everything off the first Contact and sometimes that's fine but I'm curious in your experience of doing this at such a high level for 20 years are you finding that most of your high quality appointments come out of lead followup or the initial conversation and really what I'm asking Is how important is lead follow-up to you lead follow-up is everything so the majority of appointments always come from lead follow-up that's right I don't care how skilled you are they're going to come from lead followup and and that's just a numbers game right if you're talking

to 40 people a day if you do the math on it most of them are going to come from lead follow-up now again a really good skilled scripted agent is going to Convert a much higher percentage of course off that first phone call but with 40 phone calls a day and only you know maybe let's say 1050 and expired cancels a day do the math you're going to get more from lead follow-up of course plus then your pipeline um those are much easier to close um and if you have a a big pipeline as I

do from years and years and years back you know I go through and it's like oh their kids are graduating This may I mean I got a stack of those right kids are graduating this may it's time to downsize that's right right so I'm going to be following up with them here in the next month or so to get them on the market for the summer season so um it's definitely going to be lead followup and I feel like agents changing the mindset to understanding that again it's it's like asking your girlfriend out or your

spouse out how many times did you have To ask I know I had to ask two three times before I got the date and then I had to ask three or four more times for the second date that's right and then you dated for a long time before you got married yeah you know and so it's like it it takes some time to close that deal and so I usually go into it expecting seven points of contact yeah in a normal market right lately it's been better than that it's been closer to three but seven

points of contact UM is about Average that I've seen in our market for the high skilled agents um to close to a contract yeah makes sense yeah because again goes back to instant gratification right everybody wants to call one expired one time meet with them one time get the listing on it's like this doesn't work that way you know it's going to take you and and they don't understand pipeline because a lot of Agents will Brandon I'm making 20 30 conversations a day I've been doing this For two weeks I haven't got a listing yet

what's up well it's like well you you haven't built a pipeline that is mature enough to manifest listings yet right so um if you could someone that might be watching this or or or listening to the replay Ryan that's just starting out in their real estate business if you could give that person advice maybe it'd be advised to give yourself 20 years ago the Ryan that's 18 getting started in real estate what what Maybe one or two or three things would you tell yourself that the new realtor could could benefit from right now so the

the one thing looking back I wish I would have put a better database system into effect right away and I think just being young and immature and and maybe naive and didn't know what I was if I was going to still be doing this of course course and sure um having a better database system in place with you know names phone numbers kids names you Know birthdays things like that would have been better because now taking it you know where I've done over 5300 transactions in my career trying to implement you know five to eight

years ago into a I mean that's a lot of I mean yeah just pain in the butt for somebody to have to try to input all that right so it's like at this point now it's almost impossible to change to the database system right so I would definitely focus on that um I would also Focus on um having lofty goals right and and when I look back at my goals because I still have the sheets of paper that I wrote my goals on I said oh if I get to um $250,000 a year I'm set

I can have a million dollar home $100,000 sports car and then I got to 250 I'm like that ain't GNA work you know and later got to 500 I'm like that ain't gonna work that's right you know and then it just kept growing and growing and growing and So we obviously can't say I want to make a million dollar you're starting out and have nothing for the in between right I mean you really need to have it broken down on a in my opinion uh as you get higher producing you know a minute basis right

I've got to have a goal every single minute of what I'm doing and then an hourly and then a daily weekly you know quarterly because then then it's achievable right it's it's like if if you're trying to learn how to jog or run A certain uh event in a certain time frame it's like okay I have to move my feet x amount of steps per second or per minute in order to achieve that goal now it's tangible now it's like okay that I can focus on if you just say I have to run a marathon

in three hours I I'm G to get lost and find out I'm an hour behind 20 minutes into the marathon right but give me you know something that I feel like is in front of me that I can put my Hands on it's easier to obtain that goal um and then the third thing really is again stop taking the path of least resistance and just understand that if you want results you have got to work for them and despite everything you see on the national media and news and everything else the American dream still works

you work hard you bust your ass you're G to get paid it doesn't matter what you do in our country if you're good at it you're GNA Get paid if you're good at YouTube You're Gonna Get Paid yeah right if so the knocking the doors the making the phone calls as unglorified unsexy as it is I would do all day long I really really would and the reason why is I look at what does it pay me per hour that's right and it's the most profitable thing I can do it's over $1,000 an hour it's

like $1,152 an hour I am going to call as much as I possibly can call and of Story I mean last night I walked out to my car cuz my house was a little bit loud at 7:30 and had to call four more people back CU we got disconnected they got busy at work and I wanted to make sure I followed up with them again so those would be the three things things looking back for me that I would really focus on again you know database having a really good schedule and then just not buying

into the of a lot of what these companies are pitching um because think About it and and I've I've owned a real estate company before right I'm one you know one of the owners of our our companies now most owners don't like high producing agents because they're pay in the ass not because we're creating you know National Association of realtor ethics complaints we avoid all that but you have the more deals you do the more crazy people you come across it doesn't matter if you dot every eye Across every tea that's part of dealing with

the public we use the copy machines more we're in the conference rooms more we drink more coffee right we use more square footage in the office owners want agents that sell usually depending on the markets 12 to 20 homes a year those are the most profitable agents so a lot of times you buy into their their training programs and I sit there and watch I'm like they're just creating a they're really not trying to get you to That next level they want you to be reliant on that company 100% so well said and yeah I

say it all the time you know most Brokers and associations and Boards it's not in their best interest to tell you the truth it just really isn't exactly it's not absolutely just like the government right the government's not gonna come out and tell us the truth about certain things and so why do why do certain companies not bring you in And hire you specifically is because it wouldn't be in the best interest of their bottom dollar to hire you and bring you in to get all their agents producing higher that's right it just wouldn't so

they they need to look at it objectively and say okay forget what I'm hearing all the time from you know the national franchises or from uh the news what does common sense tell me is going to help produce the best for myself and my family and fortunately it's usually What we don't want to hear right it's it's it's oh man if I want to get in shape and have abs I got to exercise every day I got to sweat and I got to push the limits that's what we have to do in the office every

single day and once you've done it for a month or two it gets a lot easier and then like anything else in life when you get good at it it gets enjoyable but it takes three four five months to really get into a groove of anything new right it's Even when when you helped me change some of my scripts I mean I I fumbled it for a month you know but it happens you know I I was doing it a certain way and saying a certain thing for so long that when we changed it slightly

it was like oh crap even this morning I found myself text messaging the wrong thing because I couldn't get through to them so I sent him a follow-up text I had to go back and delete it and resend it right and so It takes time and uh ultimately if you have the goals and the commitment in place you know and with your help they'll get there yeah well Ryan listen I appreciate you very much obviously uh youve we' got a lot to do so we're going to let you get back to it um and I'm

I'm looking forward to going on the journey and watching you continue to grow your career certainly you've done very well for yourself and so we appreciate you jumping on the show no thank you very Much sir appreciate all your help we'll talk to you soon Ryan thank you take care thank you take care bye bye