004 - Two Quants - Moritz Seibert & Moritz Heiden (Part 2)

good morning good afternoon good evening ladies and gents whenever you may be welcome back to the algorithmic advantage Today part two of our extended discussion with the two quants from takahe Capital marit Siebert and Moritz Haydn um a very quick note before we just launch straight into it one of course you've got to go back and listen to part one so go and do that if you haven't already listen to part one you'll need that context to enjoy the extended discussion and one other quick note right at the end of our discussion some kind of

uh alarms went off in Germany that affected every phone and and we had some alarms going off in the background which was pretty disconcerting but only for the last minute or two and I tried to silence it where I could um so that's something to look forward to we're keeping it real here on the algorithmic advantage anyway let's just get straight into the show thank you welcome to the algorithmic advantage we're here to expand the toolkit of the Quant trading community and introduce investors to the many advantages of systematic trading our goal is to educate

and Inspire as we embark on a captivating journey into the vast knowledge and experience of leading portfolio managers and other experts in the field we hope you enjoy the show and if you do please subscribe leave us a review or even buy us a coffee via the link on the algorithmic advantage.com we really appreciate it yeah I would like to move into takahi and and understand the fund and the different products or the different funds and then how that relates to the different strategies that you trade with the philosophies that you bring in and was

it always Trend following and is it always Trend following and I know that you trade momentum in spread so I'm curious as to the justification as to why momentum should even exist in that market before I ask that I I kind of had something just in the back of my mind from early on from from here Hayden Mr Haydn's Tech development and stuff and just because that's something near to my own heart and we build in python as well just to quickly Circle back to that I mean what do you guys build out yourselves and

um and it says your whole Tech stack built up yourself and is that including back testing engines or is that including the the order management software or um just yeah I'd like to know a little bit more about that yeah the goal is definitely to build everything ourselves um at the moment we are still consuming some things from third parties so for example at the moment we are um getting some of the markets pre-rolled via third-party software but um we have our own systems we have essentially even before um at our various Geeks build all

of that ourselves so the whole data infrastructure as well as the back testing engine as well as the order generation then reconciliation that is kind of the full thing that we have we have no automated order execution at the moment so I'm also doubtful that we will build it so there will always be kind of like execution trading on top and then of course with the back testing comments all of the simulations um all of the things that might come in as well like we discussed uh Trend following on stocks before that is a completely

different engine if you look at previously Futures Trading right so we are also using options which is not done in our case in a fully systematic way which is something I would definitely like to add to the whole system in a more systematic way even just for screening as well but in general it's it's all built in-house and that's kind of like the big benefit of having done that before um and also linking up to the previous question on volatility and volatility targeting it's not that we haven't done it we have been there before some

words and I have designed these products we have kind of been hedging these products in the job so we know why they are out there and how they work and what the pitfalls are and the same then for the trading systems we have built different trading systems either for third parties or for ourselves um so it's it's really I would say the big benefit now of also being on our own and trading on our own that we are finally able to put this all together because I just as a programmer I just find it very

satisfying to have the full control and not kind of relying on someone else so if something goes wrong exactly it's it's a lot of fun it's very nice it makes things easier of course it kind of like you have the um I would say responsibility for all of the systems but at least I know what's going on and in general these processes are super robust now nowadays with uh cloud computing you can deploy those things easily everyone can start a process and generate trades or look at things that are going wrong we can easily scale

across markets for example if we move upwards from the 90 markets that we are trading to a few hundred that's just kind of a little configuration and nothing else changes which is extremely satisfying so I I like that stuff I just like things that automate and that scale because there's more said like programmers are lazy we like to kind of like go out for for our stuff as well programming so when you're both on the beach in this earth as well it does happen yeah when you're both on the beach having your martinis who does

the order execution between the two of you it's all done like we uh we we both do it when I was in Thailand maritz was doing some of that stuff um but but I do too you know what Richard it is and it isn't anything that I mind um and it is nothing that is too time consuming to be honest um first of all I think some of the external software systems out there um in my opinion they have become very expensive uh they cost a lot of money and they create a lot of dependency

on your organization for really no reason we'd like to have the flexibility to not be connected or you know tied forever to one of these systems and um so we're not we're not routing orders automatically to execution um we do produce orders we um look at them we view them we make sure that they are correct it's kind of like think about it like a mini execution desk which this will be roles as well merits roles as well but this is you know you can upload it then into the order execution system or you can

just manually create an order ticket and the way the frequency the speed with which we trade this is not something where we need to sit in front of the screen all day and execute you know 500 orders and spend our entire time doing that it's when we have an order we can place the order we can park it we can activate it for a certain period of time when the market's at liquid whatever it is it is not too much work and um I think the manual the manual process of you know taking the order

manually to Market is it is helpful for me it is I like it when I have touch points with the portfolio because every time I do this like um I'm there I see little stuff that's moving um what is in the portfolio it's it it keeps me very much connected to the thing which is what I like and for instance to give you one example because nothing is error free um we were a little bit late to roll the Canadian Bond Futures the other day um they were kind of like approaching or getting into the

tender period and bid office spreads were widening on the spread you know you could if you had just automatically routed the rollover order in the CG the Canadian government bonds um to get out of the position you would have paid through the nose right so it is um you know us having a look at the order book having a look at you know the depth of the audit book how has liquidity developed over the past couple of days you know how has open interest developed from one contract to the next at what time of the

day this is what we do and even if it only saves us a few hundred bucks or a few thousand bucks you know it is um I'm incredibly proud of saving their money your medium to long term Moritz uh would you say medium to long term and whole yeah long term long term how many trades a year would we be looking at on average given that you're placing them manually oh um well we have about um say you know a thousand or so round terms a million a year it is um every day I think

today we're going to do three or four rollover trades yesterday we had um I think rolled some of the currencies I mean there's I would say in a given week let's just say there is one day in a week which is nothing happens there is another day in the week where very very little happens maybe one or two rollover trades and then there is uh there's two days where oh yeah we're getting an exit or we're getting into a new position and um you know that type of stuff but it is um it is a

little bit more uh involved with the spread system that we trade because you have two legs and not just one right so um there's also a couple of ways to get into these trades you could trade the single legs you could trade the spread markets where they are available you can trade Taz markets we do all of that stuff so we look at that and see what uh what makes most sense also some spreads uh liquid at different points in time depending on where you are on the curve so this is this is this is

a bit different than trading the S P 500 futures where liquidity is concentrated in the first quarter contract always and you don't really have to look at the you know March 24 contract in the S P 500 it's just uh yeah it's probably listed already but who cares nobody nobody's trading there but this is a good segment could you explain your three programs sort of to the the viewer out there um so in terms of um what styles they uh do you trade them a single programs or do you trade them across programs or how

do you use them in your allocation in a traditional portfolio all of that sort of stuff can you give us an idea of that yeah yeah we have two programs that we trade on a standalone basis and we we have one fund which combines these programs but it is not a simple addition of these programs because there's some netting effects which I can which I can get to in a minute but the two Standalone programs that we have one which is really a classic um Trend following system it is a breakout based system it is

what you and I would call these simple systems which aren't actually that simple because they are a piece of beauty it is it is relatively long term I don't think I'm the there there's Traders out there that trade more long term than we do with even longer term look back windows and whole periods but I would definitely put it into um into the the long-term period our average holding period per trade is actually 200 days and we have some winning trades that would go on for 600 700 days so many years we would stay in

these positions and um so this is one program again no volatility targeting very classic I think that is the most resilient most robust most protective approach across a lot of markets small beds per trade small bets portrayed uh equal bet sizes proportionally or appropriately sized right so we're risking a certain percentage of our trade level and then we would size the position based on a recent average terrains that we've observed have an initial stop and exit um it would keep Jerry happy with this one yeah it is it is uh I think you would be

happy with that it is it is you know Jerry has the same philosophy or very very similar philosophy Paul Mulvaney I guess has a similar philosophy there is a handful of traders in the world still that I guess trade Trend following In This Very crude raw classic call it caveman whatever but I think the real deal um this is it no smoothing cavemen are we but I'm happy with it yeah can I ask a question there while you're while you're explaining that Moritz um to what extent are the these strategies identical and applied across all

those different markets or and to what extent might they be have to be tweaked per Market yeah no no tweaking per Market uh I don't and the system doesn't care uh whether we're dealing with crude or corn or the Dax index um they are all part of the family we treat them the same way we'll use the same system the same parameters and that's it because if we if we changed the system uh on a market-by-market basis we would really destroy the statistical evidence that we could observe in the past you know because then we're

not creating a coherent sample size we're creating many many samples which in them by themselves then don't have statistical Foundation any longer that would allow us to say that the parameters that we're choosing or that Plateau that I mentioned is actually relevant and um and um and working so so this is the one system that we trade and and I'm really proud of it I must say because of the fact that it is this classic type of thing and I think uh you know with with a few of the names that we've mentioned you know

these uh we're in our little group here Panzer buffer away some of the most of the other ctis they have more often migrated into you know more Advanced Techniques and um I like hopefully to be in the position at some point to compete against them because I think that long run we have a superior approach because we're it's stripping the system from these unnecessary overlays and additions which I think cost money and are just good for the short term feel good experience but not good for our long-term objective which I've said at the beginning is

really to make money this is why we're in the game and um whether I'm down one percent today or tomorrow is really it must not be of any consequence to the approach that we're running we're looking to make you know double digit returns doesn't happen every year but you know this is this is why we're trading um and um so yeah and then the the other system is a system that trades commodity calendar spreads and really I have to say it's I've said this before is I got so intrigued by can you explain that so

explain that to me because I'm a novice in this area so yeah so a calendar spread is a spread that is intra-market so it's in the same Market say crude oil and you're trading at different points of the Futures curve different maturities so one example would be to be say A Long December crude oil and short March crude oil that is the December March calendar spread if you're Long December and short March you would be long the spread right and that means that you would expect the relationship to increase you think that December the price

of the December contract will move higher we'll we'll have a greater percentage return than the March spread because you're long so you want that spread to widen and um I got so I mean by the way this is something that we did and and I put a lot of research and work into this um while still working for the banks but also at a Quantum this was the first CTA that I started together with a bunch of friends we were very much focused on um trading commodity calendar spreads but a lot of this uh research

was colored and biased by things that I had seen and this comes back to your point sign what did I take away from these Banks you know inside the banks we were running these qis quantitative investment strategies businesses where at the beginning they were very core fit you come up with all sorts of it's still a big big business today by the way right and but it has become more professional but back then you would create indices inside banks for the sole reason of selling them to clients so you'd be creating a back test of

a strategy and then present that to a client make it the underlying for a structured product this is why by the way Moritz was saying it had to be volatility controlled because when you Vault control or vault targeted to a certain level right then you can actually very easily price a derivative on it you get rid of all the Vega dependencies of all the like some of the Greeks that would make it very difficult to hedge so you know those indices were produced and and you look at the things and um there's some naive strategies

that look very appealing um like you know we're speaking about short volatility I mean this was short Equity Vol or short commodity Vol short whatever fixed income follow I mean these were the first ones to pop up short Equity fall in particular because it's the simplest thing to do and it looks great you you know you change one up obviously you know 2008 2009 you take a massive hit you know the researcher changes the parameter a bit introduces a filter and say we would only do this if whatever the spot is above the 20-day moving

average and then boom you essentially erase the experience of that large loss from the history because you've curfeit your system to just avoid that thing exactly it's been in the game too like I see how different it is working in the bank there where those guys aren't their livelihood isn't necessarily influenced by having a bad year and they probably move on to another bank it's a completely different story when you're running a business and you believe in the product and you want to have a really good product and be around for 20 30 40 years

there is to to to Circle back on the on the commodity spreads I mean there are systems and strategies that work for a period of time and then they stop working I want to give you one example that maritz and I actually wrote about is is the Bitcoin basis trade you know we had a great success with that Bitcoin basis right where you could be long spot Bitcoin short the Futures Contract against it and essentially uh you know realize something between 20 and 40 annualized role yields that trade has gone away it has attracted too

many eyeballs um another example and by the way I'm not sure if we have time to get into that it's one of the um very rare occasions where I removed a market from my Trend polling portfolio the dividend futures um for the simple reason that there's a real structural change in European dividend index Futures uh there used to be a motivated seller which is the investment bank because they were long dividends and they were selling their dividend risk in a hatching process by selling these dividend Futures and that has largely gone away because these indices

created by banks have changed to become decrement indices where essentially they imply all the dividend address can they give the dividend risk in through the index back to the client who now carries it so there is a big big player a big elephant in the room that has gone away and changed the Dynamics of um how the front curve for the front part of the dividend Futures curve now works um and when you look into the back curve of these dividend future indices like you know deck 24 to 25 26 is tradable this is essentially

a beta play on the Curious talks 50 so you can have a more efficient um experience by trading the Euro stocks 50 if that is what you wanted to do because it is the larger contract and the Civil Futures contracts are relatively small in terms of their point value so and and so that trade has gone away you could you could engage you could essentially buy short data dividend futures um um say 12 to six months before they expire and you would buy them at a discount because that motivated big big seller all these banks

that had dividend risks they were you know depressing the price and then it pulled to par as Futures contracts do they you know migrate to um to to spot at the end of the day which was the realized dividend they were always much higher so you could get a you know too sharp type of trade simply by doing that pull depart rate goes away but then back to the Commodities the trade that was um a good trade uh is like you know when gsci and dojo's AIG now dojones UBS when you had this big Commodities

movement in the 2000s um all of a sudden people were getting interested in Commodities and they were allocating a lot of money to these indices because that was the easiest thing to do these indices left a footprint in the market and people knew exactly when and where you know we it's an index methodology which you can download from you know the gsci website that details exactly what the weight of crude oil in that index is and when they're going to roll crude oil Futures contracts so by providing liquidity during the roll period to these large

index rollers and swap Traders or by and or front running the role because you know what was going to happen you could really have a very nice strategy now these things and all the things that are published in academic papers all these strategies that you know pop up on the Internet they attract eyeballs and if they are too good to be true or too simple to execute then the alpha that is attached to them naturally decays and you know this is no surprise that is to be expected in a somewhat efficient market and so when

you then when you don't recognize that and I think Simon you've mentioned my interview on chat with Traders where I spoke about warrant arbitrage strategy the same thing you know it is a strategy that works for a period of time but you have to recognize when um the the you know the environment has changed and um it has decayed and and if you then force yourself and press yourself to still trade it because you fell in love with a strategy you can't let go you're usually setting yourself up for a negative experience because then it

starts to become that negatively tail negatively skewed um return distribution that's just too much money clustering in that thing and this is what we had or some of the the commodity strategies that were especially this liquidity provision strategies they have that tendency for like they work nicely right if everything stays as is if there's a lot of you know flows coming through the index role period you could take the benefit of that but if not um you know the it it turns out that it's more of a negatively skewed um return distribution the opposite of

what we have with our Trend following profile so again I stepped away from that and said like this is just not what I'd like to have I'd really like to surround myself with traits that can develop positive skew have a much larger upside and a very controlled limited downside all the time and if I can no longer have that then I need to step away and the way we're trading commodity spreads now is that with realizing that there is momentum in spread markets so why is that and in in the calendar spreads it is essentially

because of um you know seasonality you know natural gas in winter is worth more usually the natural gas in the summer old crop new crop funding Dynamics storage Dynamics so these curves they shift because you know these Commodities are fantastic because this is where reality takes over they're real Goods it is not like you know a a currency or like the dividend future for instance right it is um therefore also when you trade these spreads they have a clock ticking on them they have a natural maturation point in my example with the S P 500

future I can create a continuous Time series by rolling their future by connecting every quarter every quarter every quarter and you know back adjusting for differences at the time of the role that creates one time series but a spread and the example that I gave the December March crude oil spread I could theoretically roll this into a January April spread but this is no longer the same thing this is a com this is a different part of the curve in crude it may not make that much of a difference but a natural gas or in

say cotton it makes all the difference right so the spread only has a limited time period to live and when the short dated lack comes close to First notice or expiration it goes out because this is when the reality when physics take over when in a commodity that is physically delivered you're getting close to that point there's no longer any speculation as to what the price of that commodity could be 12 month hence it is you take the Livery or you make delivery right now and that's the price I just want to ask sorry I

just want to bring this back for the newer Trader as well maritz like is this just too too difficult for them do you have to construct these spreads manually yourself using the different individual contracts is this something that a newer quantitative Trader could get their head around okay you had around this but yes we're looking at individual contracts so it is a more involved say data acquisition exercise where we're not pre-rolling the contracts into the continuous time series we're really looking at every point on the curve and we're creating a large number of permutations across

that curve when you think about crude oil it is the easiest example where you have monthly expirations you can take the first miles to Second and the first minus the third and the first minus the fourth but also the second minus the third and the second one is the fourth right all the way so you have hundreds of combinations in crude oil alone and you do this across all the Commodities it creates thousands of permutations of spreads which sounds incredibly difficult well the computer does the magic it is doable yes and um now what I

I think the important thing that I want to you know bring across is that um I was so motivated by hearing other ctas talking about synthetic markets and trading cross-market spreads and um all that type of stuff that I really wanted and probably still want to get into that and it is a part of the research and part of the it's something that's just very interesting because it does have the potential to add to your portfolio and give you massive diversification benefit but whatever way I sliced and diced it I really couldn't get it to

work like you know trading Dax versus crude oil or trading corn versus um Canadian government bonds you can create all these spreads and but how do you create them do you create them as one minus the other do you create them as one over the other how do you you know take different currencies into account how do you take different roll dates into account the Canadian government expires at a different point in time than crude oil so when you roll one I mean you may be shifting to a powder I just couldn't get that to

work in the way I liked it like and you know now what I like which is um limited downside the potential for unlimited upside and I just couldn't get these spreads to um to do that and they just it wouldn't make money so so I gave up and and put that to the side went back to the commodity calendar spread so now we're not talking about Dax versus Canadian government bonds we're talking crude versus crude or corn versus Corn at different points in time in the future um and we take care of seasonalities we don't

want to be Crossing seasonalities because that would have a propensity of getting us into short spreads all the time if if we allowed the system to do that it sounds like you simply back to Simplicity uh it sounds to me like you've stripped back away from ephemeral edges to more enduring edges with simplicity so your commodity trading spreads your Trend following they're they're sort of almost Universal features found in the market as opposed to these ephemeral patterns based sort of you know short-term Edge opportunities yes and same thing like I would give them a initial

risk budget an entry and accident a stop loss uh I'm not allowing these uh spreads to become too large of a loser um if they develop fantastic we'll just write them we can't write them for as long as the outright Market positions because of what I've explained they have a clock ticking on them so they have a shorter whole period but what I've discovered and this is why I really trade them is they make money in and by themselves it is based on Trend following principles a profitable strategy and it is a very nice addition

to the single Market Trend following system in terms of here we're combining systems that really uncorrelated to one another so you never have to worry about turning them off at all because you know you're confident in their enduring features so it's not like you know a strategy where you say if it reaches a certain drawdown I'm going to turn it on if you can trade these with confidence into the future affected the confidence backed up by the fact that I'll keep the losses small and I um you know I uh if it doesn't work then

we'll get out this is yeah but there's no strategy hopping here no no exactly they they'll sit they'll sit as two independent programs next to one another and and we'll just trade them exactly and the thing when you combine it which is what we do so this is your Quantum so this is the uh Global quantitative fund that combines them and more just while you're wrapping up because we will have to wrap up soon can you just talk to the use of options as well because I understand that you do use options and I'll be

interested to know a bit more about that especially again the difficulty potentially in back testing or to what extent that's just discretionary yeah yeah no it is 100 discretionary I mean this is my background having traded these these these options for a long long period of time um I cannot and I don't want to systematize it I think that is very difficult to do um the way we use options is to really Prime and magnify the potential outlier trade so where you would put us more into the box of looking to buy options getting long

convexity and long upside as opposed to selling options and um most of the things that we would look to do but we can't always do it because the markets don't make it available to us but we would like to engage in what we call Delta replacement trades and to give an example when you have a position that has let's use crude oil again right it has your long crude oil it has maybe a lot of money um the Futures curve becomes speculated which means long dated elongated forward is relatively cheap compared to spot and flat

price if implant volatilities are low it gives me an opportunity to replace some of the linear Futures Delta that we have by being long crude oil Futures with long long dated call options right so I could replace one contract of crude oil which has a Delta of one with four call options that have a 0.25 Delta each for the same Delta exposure but now I've transformed something that was a linear risk into something that is a positively convex non-linear risk that can at maximum develop into a Delta IV position in my example you know because

I don't forecast the price of crude oil it can go to 200 it can go to 2000 what I want to maximize is my exposure to that outlier move so that we can really you don't have to worry sorry you don't have to worry about time to explain it so so so yeah this this is a dimension and that is one of the reasons why we do it discretionarily is uh in the example where we trade these long dated options um you know the time Decay Theta is uh is not much there's not much bleeds

um and the position is more a function of longer term funding and volatility Dynamics um we tend to stay away from buying short dated options because of that you know Theta effect that you've just mentioned one of the recent examples where we've added long optionality to the portfolio is I think five or six weeks ago we um observed as quants statistically that implied volatility in the S P 500 and in some other Equity indices as well was not historically cheap in terms of the vix the vix was trading at um around 13 spot fix but

uh SKU was very flat and like out of the money elongated out of the money put options on the S P 500 were historically cheap they've never been cheaper so we took advantage of that again you know being thinking about these silent risks you know where uh where long equities generally no longer across the board again I can't forecast where equities are going um I hope they do go higher because on a net basis we are long right but here was a possibility to buy some insurance and also the vix futures for a relatively low

price and we do this discretionarily because hey you know if and when these silent risks materialize then I do have protection on the portfolio and nothing makes me happier to see um my portfolio behave in a resilient and good way on days where uh the the going gets tough right then that is that that just feels really good um so we yeah we we do that to protect ourselves if and when it makes sense most of the time we can't do it because the contract aren't available or because um the pricing isn't right for us

and we think we'd be paying too much and then we just stick to the systematic process so this is this is only the this is only rally um and another I mean we're getting over time here but you know essentially we're on every time every day we get up we're looking at these things and I'm very interested like sniffing out trading opportunities that are asymmetric in the sense that oh here's something even with Futures you can do this in the spreads for instance like you know the ttf European gas spreads some are winter they are

trading so cheap or they have been trading so cheap as if nothing had ever happened as if no Ukraine war was going on as if no Supply risks existed in terms of LNG and if there were no competition globally for LNG you guys in Australia there's now an LG strike going on right which has moved that spread a little higher here you know it's priced like Smooth Sailing all the risk has gone away and you go like okay so this is a summer winter spread March versus April March is more expensive than April because you

do have the risk of running out of storage or having a cold spell here in Europe and they're pricing that stuff as if it were like 2018 and playing sailing right with pipe gas coming from Russia non-stop but this is no longer the case so you have limited downside here because that spread I mean theoretically it can go negative uh but yeah if it does go negative it's going to be a few cents negative it's now trading at 1.20 or 1.30 something like that so I'm I'm risking say a dollar Thirty but if something happens

could happen I don't know right some geopolitical event happens um something happens with Putin something whatever you you guys go on a complete strike and don't deliver any LNG anymore that thing can actually go to 20. so tomorrow it's h you know this is um when Mars hits starts sort of thinking about these opportunities what are you doing all the time we've got to validate it we've got about a validated show me the data yeah definitely looking at the data but it's hard to back test right um and these uh if it's related to macro

events then it's really about can we find historical events where we can narrow it down and kind of like how big is the downside risk versus how much is the potential upside Moritz does that already intuitively I'm what I can do is I can help and look at more events and basically try to find the right data to see if this really holds true but in general like of course uh I'm relying on his good guidance here yeah yeah he's got very good guidance I've got to give him that gentleman house quickly so I was

just going to say with the um Global Quant funds so what sort of allocations is it taking in from your systematic Trend and your spread momentum program and then can you also talk to if a traditional portfolio comes to you sort of what sort of material allocation do you recommend to them um with your funds 100 exactly it hasn't it hasn't happened yet Rich uh we're not getting the space where we're talking to these institutional clients that would go like oh you know how much should I add to my portfolio maybe that'll come at some

point but the answer would generally be more uh have you tested it uh with your back test with the inclusion of your your programs into traditional portfolios I think I've done that once with a 60 40 portfolio or just you know adding it to the S P 500 but it it doesn't surprise you that it's improving right but um as for me personally I don't I don't have a s p 500 ATF and I had my own fun to it um I have everything in my fund and I said you know this is my portfolio

that's it there's no that's the way we do it yeah yeah but also like you know when when I say on the one hand that I'm a trend following Trader and the equities and I'd be long equities and short equities depending on what you know uh what their trend is and how they have recently behaved why would I on the other hand sit on a long S P 500 ETF which is completely against the philosophy that I have when it comes to trading I mean maybe you would do that in a text preferred account or

something like that where I counted the trading I get that but so we haven't sold ourselves the devil yet as we start to wrap up then um let me know if there's anything in particular particularly one thing Simon your third yeah your third business partner he's unfortunately not here can you um just give us a bit of information about him and his involvement in the firm [Music] yeah his name is Matthias uh by the way also working together with Matthias uh sends immunity reinvestment Partners time so this is this I think is a great benefit

is that we uh we like each other we're friends we have worked together which is which is important because you just know what you know other people work operate what they do um and Matthias is essentially our Quant engineer so he is um he's really into the wheeze moritzkin talk in more detail about that and you know setting up the infrastructure um databases Cloud deployments all that type of stuff yeah so I've worked with Matthias at scalable already and to give you the dimensions we managed around 5 billion of assets for 250 000 clients um

in automated portfolio trading and the complications there of course the complexity arises through the sheer number of portfolios for different custodians that you are trading at the same time the strategy was also essentially momentum with the wall control strategy on top but like we have managed that with a very small team and he was working with me at the time he then kind of joined Moritz and myself at munically Investment Partners and sorry that was an emergency alarm let's wrap the podcast up and I just wanted to close with uh additionally Matthias name also starts

with an M which is of course great right yeah that's hard Triple M the Triple M guys Triple M radio station yes well done um all right so can we quiet the beeping there or not no you know what it is this is actually um this is a Countrywide alert that once a year they're testing this here I didn't have that I read this morning in the news I'm trying to quiet it it can't be quiet it's a Countrywide alerts don't worry about it it's all the sirens I thought Putin might have got a bit

over ambitious people just stand and shout if there's a Country-Wide alert here we don't have anything so sophisticated um as we wrap up then guys um gosh we covered a lot of ground and that's fantastic um I guess feel free to to summarize as as if it has however you would like the thoughts that come to mind for me are just like the last couple of years um I think markets and and this year also markets have been different for some some might say it's the same old same old um certain things have changed obviously

in a big picture uh regime Paradigm things are changing as we as we go through this as we go through this change and and perhaps as you're experiencing smaller changes in the markets um is it everything Remains the Same because that's what we believe in and to what extent could new ideas come into the process and what r d do you do along the way to keep refreshing those ideas if at all and try and make it quick before you get down to your bombshell yeah before the bombs go off why would you have to

click you can put it on silent if you unlock your phone you can't put it inside if you unlock your phone it will go away and then go in flight mode I turned my phone off it's still good man it's something wrong mine stopped Ah that's scary 10 you find often is still beeping I'd throw it in the ocean at that point oh my God yeah new researched look um um yes I'm I love doing research I love engaging myself with these new ideas I follow them along I'm very motivated to look into new stuff

but truth be told it's very tough to beat that Trend following approach of keeping losses small and letting the winners run and I think this is the guiding framework that um I'm not stepping away from that has crept into my life I'm very happy about it um best thing that ever happened and I think it's the best thing that you can do in trading all right fantastic I think yes I I I'm listening attentively rich um guys given the given excuse me given the um the alarms going off in in Deutschland over there let's let's

wrap it up um Moritz one and maritz two let us know how people can get in contact with you or learn more and um and we'll sign off thank you both for uh entertaining us and inviting us to your new podcast um thank you guys two hours and uh I wish you a lot of success with uh with that new thing um how do people get in contact with you and learn more either follow us on Twitter so we are both there or just head to chakahi.cattle and um use the contact form that's the easiest

way to reach out either more it's s or myself we will answer so we're always there any way you want reach out to quants.com is the alternative which is our blog you can reach out via that as well and yeah we are happy to take any questions and it's great being there thanks for the invite thanks so much gentlemen all right we'll sign off and we'll leave it there we should remind you that the conversations on this show are informal and for entertainment purposes only certainly any general advice you may hear is obviously not specific

to your needs goals or objectives so nothing discussed on the show should be considered as investment advice if you want that you'll need to actually do your own research and speak with your financial advisor remember trading can be extremely risky and past performance is not necessarily indicative of future returns if you enjoyed the show Please Subscribe or leave us a review and if you have any questions or feedback we'd love to hear from you bye for now [Music] thank you [Music]