Why Was Nancy Guthrie Taken?

>> I'm Vinnie politan the subject of my investigation is the case, everyone is talking about the tragic abduction of Nancy Guthrie, a lot of attention a lot resources have been put into this case this investigation but still no arrests or any proof of life. >> And he got 3 live peacefully in the Catalina foothills at 84. She remained independent and close to her children.

Saturday night January 31st she returned home after dinner by Sunday morning. >> She was gone family members who checked on are found signs of a disturbance and contacted police. Deputies quickly classified the home as a crime scene.

Blood confirmed to be Nancy's was found outside. Authorities revealed another troubling details digital systems tied to her security in medical monitoring were disabled during the night. Investigators believe she was abducted surveillance later showed a masked individual outside her home.

The FBI is now involved. Ransom letters appeared publicly adding another layer of T but despite the ♪ intense investigation and national focus Nancy's whereabouts remain unknown. >> I don't think any of us when this story first broke.

On that Sunday into Monday in the world realized what was happening here. I think anyone imagine that. All these days later 3 and a half weeks.

Later we'd be sitting here still. With no answers. No answers.

>> Let's bring in court TV field reporter Cody Thomas Cody great to so we've seen some some more act to Vitti at Nancy Guthrie's House what was going on here. >> Yeah Benny seem that there was a flurry of official looking activity going on at Nancy's House throughout today and there's been reports online saying that this was the Fed's doing one law a sweep seeing if they left any stone unturned seeing if there's any possibility that there was any form of evidence that was overlooked. Now people arrived at the House dressed in suits were looking at some of them on the screen right now presumably special agents with the FBI be seen to be standing with someone who's a little more casually dressed and I'll admit when I first saw this video I thought that might have been Cameron Guthrie.

Nancy's son, but it's unclear if that is him now. News nation's Brian entin news me also posted this video on X as well showing a similar vantage point but a different angle of those same people outside the front door there you see them standing talking obviously unclear as to what they were talking about Benton also posted this video on X as well another video showing a convoy of vehicles in the drive. Now we know there were reports of vehicles coming and going.

Throughout the day but again unclear as to what exactly they were there for him, but clearly there's a bunch of vehicles you see all the the cones of stuff outside of the House. Media's pushed back and everything now there's also an unmarked SUV that pulled into the garage. There you see it pulling out of the garage but they pulled an early when they're arriving they close the door don't know who was in it, they're leaving their now in this video but don't know who was in it what why the one inside the House, whatever they're looking for so many we've got a lot going on a lot of moving parts a lot going on and there's been a couple of updates with the law enforcement as well.

The FBI said they'll be moving their command post from Tucson back to Phoenix that's where their headquarters is and also the Pima County Sheriff's Office has said they will start limiting their updates to instances when new information. Warrants released instead of the daily updates that we've been seeing so many all of this activity all this to say it could be pointing towards a standstill in this investigation. We have to just wait and see.

>> Yeah, obviously they don't tell us everything but like you can kind of read the room a little bit right codes can stick around this whole hour, let's get to that first question in our investigation. >> And it's about the investigation has the investigations slowed down. Do we get a feeling that things are cooling off a little bit right now joining the forensic death investigator and host of the very popular podcast body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan justice Scott Morgan us with this and the East Coast contributor for in Los Angeles magazine.

Lauren Conlin with us as well all right along. >> I'm here with you if you get the feeling that things are slowing down a little bit out in Tucson. >> Many I hear what you're saying, but there was just a million do our reward offered I really don't think that things are going to be slowing down any time soon I think that it can feel that way because we are getting less updates from Pima County eat but to me the activity at the home to I mean it it won't again like FBI agents who maybe hadn't been into the home before that are getting inundated with tips and maybe they just have to familiarize themselves with that home additionally, FOX News also confirmed that federal prosecutors were actually at the Guthrie home as well wall and I don't.

I don't want to be negative at all and I want to be sensitive about this but and I know it's early but it crossed my mind and could we possibly be moving and nobody homicide. I mean there's there's so much unknown and again, I know it's early but that was a thought that I had. >> All right, Jessica Morgan you've been on the other side of that crime scene tape right.

Give us give us an idea here like do you get the feeling that things are slowing down heating up cooling off where do you think we are based upon what we're learning and what we're seeing and what we know. >> Changing course I think no I don't think it's slowing down and we're 25 days down range since this happened and then as you know and criminal investigation that investigation. Why this is not a long time, but when you drop some breaking news on your right now, yes please 25 it's as of about 25 minutes ago, NBC is now reporting that they will the authorities will be turning the home back over to the family.

And I was gobsmacked when I saw that so that kind of correlates with what what our colleagues said just a moment ago, they're pulling up stakes in their head and back to Phoenix. I mean I don't know I guess our our work is done and also to you know kind of dovetail with what Lauren said when I saw this folks walking around this seen its it smell like prosecutor to me when I saw them in their suits and this sort of thing I know some people were dressed down. Those look like prosecutors to me I don't know if they're from Pima County are there the feds but they're trying to get a look in there trying to paint this picture.

>> As if they're preparing for something fun. >> Yeah, and you know a couple different directions you could be. Preparing to present something to a grand jury you can be preparing something to try to get a warrant in front of a judge but generally you don't have to go there for that it does seem a much more serious.

But the release of the home is really surprising to May. But Lauren we have seen I mean for days and days and days we've seen them comb over the acre plus of the the land we've seen him in the neighborhood we we know that they've been inside the so high are you surprised that the home will be going back to the Guthrie family and what you would expect that they'll do their Lauren do you think that they'll actually spend time there. >> I mean I am I'm not surprised at this point, but I think that I've been sort of conditioned with this case not to be surprised.

There's been so much activity. Basically from day one I mean what we're dealing with here in my opinion has not been normal. It was contaminated from from day one and up until today, you know we've seen pool cleaners the mailman reporters just going up and down the steps it spend very crazy in my opinion and it to clarify with Joe Scott these are federal prosecutors and and that has been confirmed and going back to something that Cody said about the black SUV in the garage.

I'm thinking to myself that they are still collecting evidence and they don't want us to see if they're trying to hide anything they can just because there are so many reporters and and light streamers and just people outside of that home tracking their their every move that they do want to keep some kind of secrecy you know in this investigation here. >> I just wanted to tell me this now if you release to home to the family right so the crime scenes released. Catch someone and you and you end up learning more details about what happened like let's say Prince is maybe there's 2 or 3 people involved and one per sun provides a lot of information to you and when that like give you an opportunity to want to go back in there to maybe can from some of this stuff or look for something that you didn't think about looking for initially.

And now that becomes much more problematic. >> Yeah it does because now you now you've got the attorneys in the mix so this point ominous like this one of the things that always preach to my students. You know you can set just use and crime scene tape is an example if you set your perimeter up very very broadly you can always contract it.

But here's the problem you can always expanded because that our area's been contaminated then just like Warren said just a second ago Bro. They they took that tape down within what 36 hours. from jump Street.

All right you've already got a problem there. And I've been harping on this since it happened. I don't understand not only inside obviously, but I don't understand why in the sweet Lord's name.

You would release the scene so early on and then have somebody else go back in and probably replicate some of the some of your earlier work it just didn't make sense to me and now they're going to release the property completely. So I do in that sense. I don't know where it leaves us, I know that anything that happens after we're sorry to this point if they took somebody up on charges they need to verify something I hope they've gotten everything done that they need to do because now you run the risk any second-year law student can going so well that contaminated this now you know doesn't take a rocket scientist to you know kind >> It is shocking I just got more to stick around long Collin always great to see you la magazine.

Always breaking news here on the show thanks so much. >> Coming up next what does the blood revealed. >> This entire team here.

Those >> We still believe. We still believe. We still believe that she can come home.

As my sister says we're blowing on the embers of hope. >> Savannah Guthrie's latest message again holding on to hope that the fire their mom alive but also acknowledging publicly for the first time, I'm that they do realize there's a chance that she is already dancing in with her late husband and with other family members. So others that reality that the family does understand, but you can see it and you can hear from Savannah that they will never give up hope until they know for sure what happened to the mom let's bring back in court TV field reporter Cody Thomas a cold one of the reasons from the beginning a lot of us are very concerned about Nancy was the blood that was found outside that front door.

We take a closer look tonight gives a little more context and perspective on that. >> Yeah absolutely nothing we know about that but it was an offer testing of course the DNA came back matching man says now when we look at images of the blood spatter many we see that it only sits maybe a foot maybe 2 feet from the front door you see the the base of the House back there we've got a closer look at the blood spatter right there something else notable look at the money we isolated zoomed in still image from the suspect doorbell camera video zoomed in we can see that front door may see the suspect a black and white on the left the image we're just looking at on the right color eyes, we flipped it up when he degrees so it kind of aligns with each other. Now we see that doormat it extends from the door to rows of squares outward from the door you can see where the car urban them at lines up with the bottom line of the 3rd roske where's there now again we flip the images of the blood on the right upwards to kind of match.

The suspect video you see that square off to the left of the mat in the suspect video. It's clear on the right blood spatter is obviously there someone of that tell us sometime between that suspect being there and Nancy's abduction that blood got they're on those squares now the thing about it many is that police say no blood was found anywhere else inside the House or outside the House only found in that particular spot was done means there is a lack of a blood trail now I was out there in Tucson Arizona and you know about out on the street, I wasn't up on the driveway because it was closed off to media and pretty much everybody else outside of law enforcement investigators but that front door, here's an aerial view about 35 maybe 40 yards from the road directly in front of the House which feels to me like the suspect had to have a tower something ready to catch the blood immediately wants Nancy started bleeding is the whole thing is a strange that the blood was found directly and those one or 2 squares right outside the front door nor else and nowhere else. >> And nowhere else alright, Cody, thanks so much that brings us to the next question in our investigation.

What does the blood reveal right this this is a big deal and it's tied directly to Nancy Guthrie. Still with me. host of body bags for as a death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan joining the retired police officer in expert analyzing crime scenes, doctor Mike mccutchen all right Jessica Morgan you wrote the book right blood beneath my feet.

What does this blood revealed. >> That's a memoir but I can I can talk to some of to me the deposition of blood that you're seeing there if you look at the larger droplets. That's kind of a gravitational impact words kind of falling straight just and you know, then you remember you and I covered Joe to areas right you remember the sake right and so leaning over Saint with Travis Alexander you had these kind of larger droplets of a fallen way.

But I've seen a couple of photos of this deposition and where it's a bit clearer tighter and you can see almost this system unlike deposition this contained in there which and in our work that's something that we would refer to as potential for so you have free fall in blood, the bigger droplets, you know that could be consistent with a busted lip are bleeding nose and then you have expert which is you know kind of like blowing out coughing up. It's interesting that just as Cody it stated what we're hearing now is that there's no evidence that the blood passes into the home or passes away from the You know, I'm just spit ball and here I was really thinking did this individual cradled her at this point transporter way remember she's partially in from. She she's.

I'm not going to say non ambulatory. She asked have assistance and this person has to move quickly. What happened I have no idea but that subject would have transfer onto his person if that's if that's the scenario.

>> All right doctor Mike mccutchen what does this blood revealed to you. >> I agree with Joseph and a lot of his points there. The blood that there isn't enough isn't a large blood-letting event it's not something that would you know and.

>> The fatal it either small wound or if she had a and you know bloodied nose or something like that you see that that blood is falling directly down that way get the circular drops. It's not moving. It's not him packed spatter it is not castoffs battered which is coming off of a weapon.

It could be you do see those smaller droplets. To if you have those shed the blood he live spit like you just trying to clear mouth. That is but this significance is interesting because there when it first came out in the family went in the House they didn't notice any blood they didn't call the police right away because I thought she just might be missing.

And I was found that odd him like that must have been more blood that they saw and that wasn't the case. And so and I see that small amount. Did that the event that caused this bloodletting event happened on the steps or was there a towel or something that they were catching the blood and then as they were moving her.

It got released that I don't know but such a small amount of blood it says it was accidental or something that is not a major event to cause serious injury. >> How about the Joseph Scott Morgan, you know you look at that front door it looks like it's if you're looking at the House, it's a little bit to the right of the door which is kind of in line with where the. Cameron is first is being noticed walking straight out the door straight down the sidewalk.

We're through the porch towards the sidewalk. It's a little bit to the side does that have any significance. >> Well I think it does the location of it and this is purely speculative.

>> On my part not seeing the actual crime scene if you're looking at the relationship between the door and where that door latches and where the the nest camera had been seeded in there that door swings out toward and over this area. If this was just and please forgive me for saying this but I'm against it all and I if this was just to kind of stunned her to get her attention. He will comply.

It could have taken place right there. And that placement is significant and we still don't know anything about it all a waiting vehicle. You know that may have been right down the drive, you know Cody talked you know I think he is a stunt was like 30 to 40 feet or 30 to 40 yards to the rear.

Away from the door back to roadway. And were there more than was a more than one person involved in this to get control over her to make or comply. You know, and it is a horrible thing to think about but I've had many days to kind of consider this over this period of time because it is been so so I salute and then this Doc said just a second ago this is not you know you you don't look at that in forensic pathology we say you know there's an amount of blood here this incompatible with life that's not what you're looking at here okay this is like some kind of spontaneous event that deposition is right there.

So I don't that speculative at best come apart that's best guess >> Jessica Morgan. Thank you so much always great to have you doctor make mccutchen sticking around. >> Still to come why why was >> Of the college and we continue our investigation of the abduction of Nancy Guthrie, a story the public is invested in everyone is hoping for a safe return of Savannah Guthrie's mom but everyone, including the family, realizes it may be too late.

>> The break in the case didn't come from a witness came from technology. Nancy Guthrie disappeared from her Tucson home overnight authorities say evidence shows she did not leave on roan blood identified as hers was founded. >> The scene the investigators revealed the critical twist home security systems and digital monitoring connected to a peacemaker.

>> Were disabled during the timeframe in which she vanished surveillance footage which was later recovered showed a masked person outside the home. Ransom Communications followed the law enforcement has not confirmed their authenticity now the FBI has joined the search. Elderly woman with medical needs is missing.

And investigators are racing against time. >> Here we go the investigation continues and still we're at a place where there's no arrest, no one's been taken into custody. No one has been named as a suspect and obviously Nancy has not been found.

But bring back in court TV field reporter Cody Thomas. Let's go back through everything here it's I think it's important every once a while to do a little bit of a reset you know sometimes when the latest stuff comes out we forget about everything else that we've learned so what do we know here about what happened in the abduction of Nancy Guthrie. >> Well of course we know about a handful of things that have happened over the past few weeks but let's start from the top where I believe that Nancy was taken from the comfort of her own bed take a listen.

>> A 24 since I'm on. Was taken in the dark of night from her bed. And every hour in it and second.

Every long night has been acne since then. Worrying about her. Fearing for came for her.

And most about missing her son missing. >> Now early on in the investigation of course we know the sheriff spoke about a timeline of what they believe went down that night and they touched on specifics and they also touched on the fact that they had no suspects take a listen to this. >> This is a timeline that we have been able to develop with some of the things that we've had processed.

Various pieces. Like tri-lakes that we've gathered Sunday morning early warning at one 47 am. The doorbell doorbell camera disconnects.

02:12AM software detects a person on camera. But there is no video available. I have no subscription and therefore it would rewrite it so kind of it's just kind of moves right covers up that's what our analysis teams have called us we're not done with that will do all we can but.

That's what's S so that detects a person on camera could that be an animal I imagine it's possible. We don't know that we just have no video we're not giving up on that. Nancy's pacemaker app shows that it was a disconnect from the phone I would say that.

We do not have it in our possession we've not located. >> We just really don't have an up to say this is our sus but this is our guy we know that we're are down we just don't know that and it's really kind of reckless to report that someone is a suspect when when. They could very well be a victim it just I I bring to you to the media.

I plead with you to be careful of what it is we put out there because we don't have anybody here listed as a suspect. >> So no suspects at the time of the press conference but now we've all seen that infamous video of a suspect creepily going outside of Nancy Guthrie's home but the footage was not time stand that's important to note take a look at this. So now we have a suspect but many we can forget about.

>> The enormous amount of ransom notes that started coming in once this investigation started the first one coming in to tmz with the demand of 6 million dollars in bitcoin then an IMPOSTER gets arrested for trying to take advantage of the situation take advantage of the Guthrie family's pain. Then another note demanding money for information on who sent the first know demanding 6 million in bitcoin meanwhile, the deadline for that bitcoin note past and there are still no proof of life no sign of Nancy teams, the founder Harvey Levin had this to say about the ransom note on his network take a listen. >> This is a highly sophisticated demand involving a form of crypto not now it is demanding.

Roughly the same amount as the demand letter we received you know shortly after the kidnapping the 6 million dollar demand the demand graphically describes the consequences if the demand is not met. >> So here we are not many weeks later sophisticated ransom notes, plenty of videos posted by the Guthrie family pleading for their mother to come home, but still no sign of Mensa got the rinse still no real solid suspects outside of the one we see in the doorbell cam video. >> Yeah, it's it's a lot of things just don't make sense.

>> To a lot of us right now, thanks so much Cody you've got Mister walmart on the porch with his walmart outfit and you've got the sophisticated notes that are being described by Harvey Levin, what does it add up to that brings us to the next question in our investigation. Why was Nancy Guthrie taken joining me private investigator founder of victim news online Erica Moore says here and creator and host of gray hues investigates a new to great use is whether it's great to see you both here. >> Grey, I know you always have a lot of theories always diving into these things what are your thoughts on the wife.

>> You know, I guess Hawaii is the question I wish. You know there's like 3 different reasons you might say that it was an abduction for ransom that went wrong. It was an abduction to make somebody feel a certain you know to make it look like it was an abduction for ransom but it really wasn't just to the situation you know with the family with Savannah being so upset or maybe it was directed towards her that part heard to say that I'd like to throw out yeah, yeah so I went one 47.

One 47 you see him near the camera, he doesn't care of these being film you can just tell he doesn't care that is being filmed at all. He's just looking for something to cover the camera and the reason is looking for something to cover the camera is because he's going to be pulling a car up right in the background there to bring mansi out of the House so I think you can look at that and say that that is actually what he was trying what he was going to do then I think once you remove the camera he walked away for a while to see if law enforcement would show up then at about like 7 after waiting about 20 minutes or so he drove the car and parked it right there. And then he goes around the back of the House jumps over the fence and to 12.

The camera in the back picks up the motion then he goes inside the House confronts Nancy however that went down and then as they're coming out the door, he's to her right and she kind of been over cost a little knees care having her walk out at gunpoint to the vehicle that he had right there in 2. 28 is about exactly that same time when her pacemaker disconnected from the her cell phone. So just absolutely makes sense if you look at it like that.

>> Erika Morse how are you seeing all this is is is the. >> There are clear why at this point or is that something that we won't know until we get a suspect. >> I don't know that that's actually a two-part question and the first part of that is she was taken because her disappearance solve the problem.

That's why she was taken to now it's again to finding who benefited from her disappearance. Because that's what we have to look at investigations, this is about victim algae at this point. >> I understand the grays working off of that theory so are 500 other you know lists.

>> You know I work with a lot of content creators city and my for prof always sets always S there are too many what ifs when you're throwing out theories too many what ifs so go back to what you not and what we know statistically is one to 2% of all abductions. Are stranger abductions 98% roughly are not and we all want that to my knowledge e that she was taken because her disappearance solve a problem for someone. So now it's up to the FBI to these 2 unknown dia he's hopefully that geology comes back and we will determine who that person is hopefully that will benefit from her disappearance.

>> How confident are you in the way the. Investigation has progressed as specifically with the 2 entities right Pima County and the FBI working do you get the get the feeling they're working together or do you think there are some issues there that people have been talking about that may slow down the progress. >> There's issues except when you listen to the sheriff talk about it he does and he seems to deny that there's problems but then other reporters who are speaking with the the eyesight you know anonymously I have sort of a different take on it.

There was one thing I did want to throw out there for your audience is that. The blood trail apparently there's a new reporting where the blood droplets are actually in the home. Okay so there's droplets in the home on out to the out the door and FOX News actually had.

Images of the blood droplets all the way down onto the gravel path leading right where the driveway is so that's what's all informing. You know the theory that I have I use just the facts of the case to theorize every single thing that year. You're a hearing from you is based on the facts of the case.

But yeah I I'm not really confident in the in the you know him running the show that doesn't mean I wish the FBI had this control this from the get-go and was running. >> Yeah Erica you've been involved in some cases where there's been conflicts within law enforcement sometimes member seeing things differently and not necessarily. Getting long what are your thoughts here and how this is progressing with you know the feds who are now apparently moving their central operation back to their home base of Phoenix.

Out of Tucson and Pima County. >> I think that this is the strangest case we've ever seen in terms of the amount of resources. I mean I've been doing this the person's he says now for 15 years and I've never seen the White House.

>> Last week an official statement on social media. E. All eyes are on this case and therefore the amount of pressure that this sheriff fields must be beyond overwhelming I worked high-profile he says as an investigator and everybody has an opinion everybody things that somebody is doing something however that being set because of the amount of tension, let's just throw every resource from the FBI available.

>> And it's OK for sheriff, no matter of a small town or a large city. >> To admit when they are in over their heads on it case it's okay from the ask for that help you no it's okay for them to saying we're not. >> I specialize in this area, maybe we need to turn it over to the folks who are.

>> Yeah Erica Morris victim news online. Thank you so much great news great news investigates make sure you check it out on youtube coming up next. What was in the backpack.

>> Your children will not. >> Millions of you have been pretty so many people have been praying of every faith and no faith at all. Paying for her return and we feel those prayers.

Please keep praying ♪ without ceasing. ♪ We still believe. >> OK I want to bring back in court TV field reporter Cody.

>> and to talk about that backpack. I'm I know we we ordered one of those backpacks and. Trying to figure out because the image to be so powerful of that backpack seems to be just jam-packed what can you fit inside of that.

>> Yeah and yet when you look at that image you can clearly see that that that suspect has a full backpack full of who knows what but we do know, according to police that is an Ozark trail backpack as you mentioned, or did it this is it right here walmart exclusive Ozark trail, 25 leader Again exclusive to walmart let's take a look at what it looks like again, I'm kind of the similar builds of the suspect they said between 5, 9, 5, 11. It's I have an interim or something like that. But this is what it will look like filled, you know from the back we have a comparison there so black backpack Ozark trail here but let's take a look inside of the items we got in his back to as much as we were able to put it all again we don't know what the suspect had in his, but we want to fill this up with some stuff.

So get out so we've got enough. Big Blue tarps here still wrapped up still kind of a fixed term to put over a pool or something. Pretty thick out the full doubt up we've got the same tart unpack to record roll a little bit more in kind of more Molly ball there.

We've got a big thick. Blanket situation that I really had to force down in here. Got this one us is using biggest probably the biggest thing in the the densest thing that I could fit in their cells forcing and of course got the suspects trust a mask year that was also able to get in there.

So many you know when I first looked in his backpack and looked a little small. You know, 25 leaders that sounds pretty big knowing to the soda bottles and everything look at those small, but clearly a big part of things have been inside that bag. >> Back alright, Cody Thomas great work as always tonight thank you very much Sir that brings us to the final question in our investigation this hour.

And it's about. >> The backpack what was in the backpack. Cody gave us a good idea of how much.

>> Space there isn't there. So what's on the realm of possibilities here joining me to help answer that question true crime podcast are from hidden killers with Tony Bruschi Tony Bruschi is here and still with us retired police officer doctor Mike mccutcheon. >> All right Tony, what are your thoughts it holds a little bit more than I thought.

When we saw it last night not filled what are your thoughts about what could possibly. >> Be inside that jam-packed backpack. >> I'm going with fleece blanket Yahtzee board and Michael boltons greatest hits on vinyl maybe plan to cozy anything.

We don't But I think what's in the backpack really depends on what the intent was which we don't know if this was a break-in gone wrong, you're looking at at tools of the trade pry bar flashlight, maybe a pillow case for valuables or bag inside a bag you show up with one Pac to leave with to the how her bag is your kit, the inner bag the haul that's how you move someone's belongings and Sullivan for what you brought burglars to all the time he expects an empty house, but Nancy's there and now he's got a problem and nothing that will be solved by those bags or the bag. If Nancy was the target that's a different story entirely restrain Sept ties duct tape change of clothes from South maybe something has to date her items to control someone you intend to move that's free meditation that's planning. But we just don't know if they can recover the bag in the state it was in that night that would tell us a lot about intent but we're for weeks in and the odds of that are slim to nil that Pac is still intact unless they find the guy longing expired porch guy with the pack having met his demise somewhere in the desert which I doubt that's going to happen either so I think everyone's guess is as good as.

>> My doctor Mike mccutchen the backpack is just. Filled to the brim and I think Tony's right now we talked about premeditation there's a plan and I guess the question is what was that plan and what are the items in there that are needed for him fulfill that plan. >> If the backpack itself is more telling that it was a pre-planned operation so whatever's in there and we can speculate whether it was something to commit the crime whether it was something to move for with the steal.

But it shows the preplanning whatever is in there are the tools of what the suspect had what we didn't see is that he too took anything out of the backpack to get into the House. So that haven't seen anything that shows whether there was a forced entry. Pry bar door was kicked in or what the circumstances were with that that we don't see him using anything from it to enter the House at least in that short clip.

But it shows the preplanning and it could be something maybe to obscure her vision to put over whatever it may be to move or to a vehicle. It some type of rap. It really did it is difficult to tell because we don't know the plan so it could be to do the preplanning together it could be something in there for the after planning once when she leaves, but the important pieces that this certainly would show preplanning if they find who.

Abducted her I know that they're going to look at that back back and say well clearly you went there with intent because you brought tools to the job. >> You know we only about 20 seconds left here Tony Bruschi but what's interesting is there's nothing in that backpack to deal with the camera instead he's reaching for sure robberies. >> it shows a level of of a lack of sophistication I in that you have nothing prepared for this.

No tape. spray paint nothing you're going for the shrub It says a lot I really wish we knew it was in that packet would tell us a lot. >> Alright big thanks Tony Bruschi doctor Mike cochon always great to see you guys all right.

How will plan was his crime well it was planned well enough that after 3 and a half weeks there's been no identification of the suspect any arrest or unfortunately any sign of Nancy Guthrie, so regardless of how clueless the walmart suspect the walmart they got bought stuff from wal-mart. We believe suspect looks on video tonight. He's still walking free.

And we don't know where Nancy S. But in politics, we'll keep digging for answers as the investigation.