[Music] this is the journey to one Africa Julius malma leader of the eff thank you so much for making time for us thank you for coming in thank you thank you for having me I want to start off with something that a lot of people and I'll say including just been wondering about how have you been since Floyd shivambu left because I think it's one thing to lose a comrade but it's another to actually lose someone you had considered a brother and I wonder if that kind of relationship still exists but I'll start there how
are you doing no well I'm doing very well um the leadership of the efff remains intact um although his departure was painful but I got some sense of relief I don't know why it was as if I've put down some heavy load uh so it's not always that bad things uh will always produce bad results perhaps at times they do produce very good results so we're fine uh we're rocking you're you're rocking is that as the eff what about you and him is there an opportunity no no no no I don't have anything to do
with him no friendship anymore no no no no no no no I don't what brought us together together was um a common purpose we met in the trenches we didn't meet in the club we didn't meet the church we didn't fall into love with each other at the University in the same class what brought together what brought us together was sharing the common agenda for the Revolution and once we start seeing things together I mean differently what brought together no longer exist and there's no need for me to be having any kind of relationship yeah
um one of the things that I think and I think a lot of people saw this when you addressed the Press briefing with him when he was announcing that he's leaving um and a lot a lot of people said oh you can just see how sad Julius is we've never really seen him like that and you guys were so collegial in the way you address this matter you were very professional you were very mature in how you handled it and then a few days later you addressed the ground forces and you I felt you were
going hard on him where you said you have been trade what happened between that moment and the time when you address the ground process cuz it seems like something happened cuz then the messaging changed no no no the messaging remained the same there's a different posture you take when you're in a press conference like when I'm talking to you now M and when I go to speak in a in a rally or in a a political talk cannot be like uh some boring history lecture in a lecture room MH uh my responsibility amongst other things
is to agitate and to instill confidence on the ground forces and say to them we're still rocking the boat H we're in charge let's move forward so there should be a difference between the press conference and the the the the ground forces event but there's nothing that really is different from what what we said I said to you then and I might have said it in an emphatic manner at the at the ground forces rally I said to you at the at the at the press conference that I wouldn't have expected that uh from a
brother and once I see that a word for that is betrayal so if whether I put it in that way or this way it's the samey but it's what under the bridge now um nothing of us depend on his existence MH no no no we we we are doing much better now uh without him yeah one of the things you said at the Press briefing was that this is not allowed even in the eff Constitution but if he decides that he wants to come back to the eff you are going to make an exception for
him is that offer still on the table that was a demonstration of me not having anything against him as a person H but the eff is has got a con institution it has got its own membership it has had what I said and it will decide at that moment if that moment present itself but H I was simply saying I've got nothing against this guy I've not done anything to this guy and even if he calls on me tomorrow I'll show up because I will not have some hangovers that but this guy when he left
this what happened no and and that's what I Wasing say but we all governed by the con of the EF which says if you leave the eff you are not allowed to come back and the leadership of the e at a CCT meeting one after another they said to me hey my guy we heard you but not here so they said they said no not yeah you can forgive each other there but not here the constitution of this organization applies and I ought to respect that because I've expressed My Views MH and the leadership said
hell no are you not concerned about how that comes across because from what you're saying this is a decision that you took unilaterally right about making an exception even though the Constitution that doesn't allow without speaking to the leadership do you not think you should have at least discussed it with your leadership and said hey guys this guy wants to leave but because he is as you've said before the brainchild of this organization what do you guys think of this cuz you are a leadership Collective I would imagine Julius malma himself can't just make exceptions
about the constitution of the eff well a person Lees a day on a night before uh we meet work out the strategy on how we're going to navigate this with him and uh the following day we handled it you know professionally in a very good manner the way you are saying for the first time I hear you speaking so well about eff that did something professional and in a acceptable manner so in between that there's no time for a consultation of the highest decision making B between the conferences I'm its president I should make pronouncement
in between because leadership must be provided but when that leadership meets it has to rectify what I said it's the same as the CCT the Central Command team it will take a decision and then goes to a national people's assembly in December and then we arve there they say no that decision was wrong this is what the leadership should do going forward or should have done and therefore we're not accepting this resolution so we've got our bosses as it were but it doesn't mean that I'm confronted with a challenge now and I have to protect
this organization which I did to the best of my ability and that's why he's still standing today yeah I I have to say as as we wrap up on floor one of the things that particularly surprised me about your posture when you're addressing the ground forces is is when you told them to go and check who owns Channel 405 and what relations they've had with you know people like Floyd shivambu or people that have left and I just thought that is so below the belt and I know you've said in the past that when we
are in politics we mustn't be personal so don't involve my family don't involve my personal relationships attack me as a politician and just felt and I could be wrong I'm interested to hear your view here if you think you addressed and and dealt with that matter correctly because you basically exposed him about his past relations with someone who owned Channel 405 do you think that was the right way to deal with it especially after you guys agreed that they're not going to be personal attacks well I I'm happy you know who owns 405 I don't
know I'm happy you know personal relations of people I don't know do not involve me in the bedrooms that that have nothing to do with me I've never said that and let me reassure I'm not a coward if I wanted to say something I will say it so I didn't say that so I'm not responsible for your interpretation I'm responsible for what I say and I did not say that I don't know who owns 45 go and check the ownership of the 45 check its posture against the E the same as 403 it has been
under scrutiny now as to who owns it and why is it a propaganda machinery for the gnu now we're going to be told no you you are below Bel because there is a person who owns a a 403 and he had a relationship with stain haen in the municipality ofu I don't know that but I'm just saying you check its ownership then you check what is the agenda driven by this station and that will tell you why the post theyve taken I mean we are not shocked by the sabc I mean sabc has been very
hard on us um and and and pro the other formations as long as it's not eff especially with the question H that you asking me now about this guy who have left the eff if you check the relationship of some of the board members of the sabc and and look at the sabc's poster then you will understand why the sabc is taking the poster is taking so you ought to know every M existing material evidence that will give you direction of where we're going so and we've always spoken even in his presence about the ownership
of 45 and we have always doubted that that which they say owns 45 is actually not true MH so so I don't know at least today we are getting some answer from your so I I just wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify that cuz that's at least in my interpretation which is why I wanted you to at least explain it cuz when you said go check who owns 405 and the relations they've had with the people who have passed but I'll take your explanation um do you still expect people to leave and follow
Floyd cuz you said that was your one of your you said you must expect that Fighters that some people are going to leave and follow him do you still think yeah yeah then they we looking at them and they they think that we don't know um um you know there comes a season in politics where these things happen and then you must not be overwhelmed by a season it's like those people who spend all their money on Christmas Day because it's a festive season so there's that kind of season which is taking place now we
ought to hold tight and make sure that we remain unshaken they're there it doesn't matter what they say from their mouth it doesn't matter what song they sing all we know factually is that these people have engaged in a double ping um um so the con of the eff says speak good and defend the organization both in private and in public and then you go speak very bad about the organization in private and then plot its leadership you know what is holding some of them is the coming NPA ER that they should blackmail us into
electing them and if we don't they're going to leave but they are long gone and will not be H by that it doesn't matter what they do it doesn't matter so so so you can say this but in actual fact you're engaged in in shananigans that seeks to undermine the unity of organization and go and praise a leader of another party in an internal meeting of the eff and still believe that those comrades and Fighters will view you as one of their own yeah so sometimes it helps the unity and the image of the organization
not to engage in the expulsion of people you just allow them to self distruct MH and that way you gain an upper hand that nobody didn't expel them they left on their own yeah yeah which they will do yeah and and that brings me then into the people's assembly cuz you're mentioning something about the threat that some of them are making that maybe if they don't they don't get elected then they're going to somehow use some influences to try and Bain for for positions are you expecting the people's assembly in December to be a bruising
contest for the eff not where I'm in charge I'm in charge now and I'm going to make sure that I defend the unity of this organization and its existence I do not care of any critique that will come because he's disappointed from eff that emerges United in Nazar e is not going to die in nazare we're going to a conference we're going to account we're going to elect leadership we are one of the few organizations that do that and even when we try to protect that internal Democratic process we still called dictators but people say
they will never go to conference people say yeah they appoint leaders no one tells them anything they get praised everywhere eff is the only one that gets told no you can't do this can't we're going to do what we think it is in the interest of the efff and we don't care who says what we care about the branches of the efff now M yes this is the period where we must defend our movement and not listen to our detractors we have to defend the eff and the the bad thing with the constitution of the
eff and like any other Constitution it doesn't deal with a period of infiltration what happens when the organization faces infiltration the organization has got its own president and the good thing with our president is that it's a found of this organization and where there is a absence of constitutional provision on how to deal with this the president must intervene and the president will intervene yeah what is your relationship now with uh B inl you have SE I'm sure you've seen the suggestions people have been making since you addressed the ground forces when you said some
of the leaders are quiet um and some of their Partners have liked tweets and you know about the Twitter detectives who've gone and found some of the tweets that were liked by the partner of BU in Loi were you referring to him when you were making that statement and and what's your current relationship with him now our relationship has always been a organizational and political relationship and it remains like that and um I've not seen anything un towards because even in Parliament where we meet the most uh we're working together we meet almost every Monday
especially now with the preparations of the NPA he's there he's given task he executed those task to the best of his ability nothing has suggested that there should be some Sour relations uh between uh me and and Dr but you you ought to be aware that when we speak in the political event people will always try to to align the messaging with certain individuals so meaning they will try to give it a face even if there's no face and then try to drive a wedge and where you find the weak leadership they go separate ways
but there are leaders who in the eff and they know themselves and for the sake of the unity of our organization we shouldn't be speaking about their names who have kept quiet including I mean he has not said anything about Floyd since he left between Floyd living and you addressing the ground forces he said he said something unless you're saying he didn't say it to you the media people if you asked him if anyone asked him I've never heard him being asked about that on Twitter but cuz you said there are certain leaders who are
busy tweeting who always tweet but now his choice I mean I'm happy you you are able to see that he has not tweeted I have not been checking that so all I'm say is that he has he has expressed himself about this matter H to me he has expressed himself uh internally in the organization and he's writing his own history everybody writes his own history but you said to me earlier on that the eff expects its leadership to defend this organization not just internally but publicly as well he has hasn't done that he has done
that publicly he has done that he he has been at the occasions where the organization ought to be defended and he defended the organization even on the issue of Floyd well I've not heard him say anything about the issue of Floyd but the contion does not say on Floyd defend the eff internally and externally it says the organization has to H uh be defended both in private and in in public so if he has chosen not to say anything on Floyd it doesn't mean he has not defended the organization where he gets an opportunity which
he does very well in Parliament he defends the integrity and the image of the efff yeah the the mland gardien reported earlier this month that there are some eff provincial leaders that want that are calling for the party's constitutional change to abolish the deputy uh positions is that something that you think can work well in the organization well that suggestion came to me but um I've never been in an organization where there's no Deputy president so I'm very reluctant to do or agree with things that I don't know so some people were saying to me
we need to establish the union you know Trade union and but we can't establish two organizations at the same time because now I've never been in a union so if there are comrades who are going to establish a union and we can see it's a genuine Union is not someone trying to resolve this issue of unemployment by forming a union will support that I've not listened to a real political persuasion as to why we should abolish the issue h of Deputy president because you are irritated by what Floyd did um that is not objective so
you can't make rules based on Floyd for Future Leaders of the efff who have not done anything wrong to the eff so you can be angry now with Floyd and be angry with whatever that he was occupying and then say no he must go with everything no no no no no no um it's what irritated you now but it can be a long-term solution M what happens if Julius malma is unable to discharge this responsibility tomorrow it means we're going to kill each other on that evening because there's no one who the Constitution then immediately
mandate that where the president is incapable of discharging his responsibilities you have to come in so that creates a room for serious contestation and potential split in the organization if the Constitution does not resolve what needs to happen going into the future Deputy president is not succession being Deputy president does not mean you're going to be president being deputy secretary General does not mean you're going to be Secretary General so you you you deputize in the absence of those you are deputizing you not even an assistance you're not an assistant president you're a deputy you
got your own responsibilities and you get assigned certain things you don't interfere with what your principal is responsible for yeah and in in terms of succession in the organization um and I know names are being bended around now some people feeli should contest Secretary General the position of Deputy president um what confidence do you have in the current leadership and the possibility that they may return including yourself as it is are you more open to I mean as a Democratic party obviously you allow anybody to contest positions I just want to get your thoughts on
the current leadership and the possibility of them returning being reelected and also some of the names that are being mentioned to occupy the position of leadership in the eff I think they all qualify um um if if is the names that you have given to me now the current leadership of the eff is well capable our Secretary General um is at the center of what we're going through now as an organization in defense of the EF uh he has been steering the ship he has been ensuring that at this uh Branch meetings Regional meetings and
eventually provincial meetings uh take place in an orderly and disciplined Manner and they do take place that the administration of it is proper and uh what he has been called upon to defend our organization he has never been ashamed not for a day for associating with us so why would I have a a problem with the Secretary General of the eff um they can remove him if they want to but if they come to ask me I'll will express my view uh that I don't agree uh with that view um and you know tribalist work
in different ways the fact that now the threat comes from MK they now want to assume that every Zulu is a threat and that include our Secretary General who has not for a single moment not for a day you know demonstrate that he belongs to a certain tribe or push ethnic politics or tribalistic politics at times we even forget and speak to each other in our home tongue and remember later than Norman this comrade you can see that he's lost like this comrade G doesn't know this langage and then he does the same because we
don't see tribe amongst ourselves and therefore Marshall is not going to be destroyed on the basis that there is a party that comes from H or is strong no it comes from there anyway it comes from ketn and therefore because martial is from kzn he must be killed amas also to be killed Marshall is even in a much better position this party that you are saying it comes from kzn got 45% in kzn I come from a province where the ANC got 73% so if we using that I must be the first one to be
shut down before you go to Mia yeah well and I'm glad you're expressing your view about this Secretary General position what about the deputy president uh position there's no Deputy president he left yeah yeah yeah so I've got nothing to do with so it has always been like the position of the president you know Clement you guys make a terrible mistake and that's what you don't critique with this the rest of these people and then you do that with us in the eff if you talk succession I'm going to finish speak reading my political report
and organizational report treasurous report we are done then electoral commission comes and and say guys thank you H for your service for the past 5 years you can now step down we get removed from the stage to go and sit with delegates there in between that period and the nomination there is no president of the eff ordinary members only we're just ordinary members there can you say that about MTI can you say that about action sa can you say that about the rest of these people actually hasn't had a a conference yet and MK says
hey don't even try those things here but they The Darlings of everyone malma is going to be told you must now step down so that nominations can take place that that weight none of these parties have ever had yet they're not dictators H they're not called all H sorts of names which we accept H because we represent and a direct opposite agenda of what the establishment is actually looking for yeah and I w't speak for the rest of the media but for this show we did criticize in fact my comment a week ago was about
parties that are not even planning to have and I reference the eff as the best example cuz you were founded in 2013 2014 already you had a you had an elective conference you indicated that branches that didn't get 10% of the vote share won't be allowed to participate at the conference um just please expand more on that so when you go to a conference you say a branch in good standing will be 100 members who have paid up their membership fee H who are registered voters and that Branch should go and elect the branch leadership
if doesn't have a branch leadership if it does have a branch leadership then it will nominate a delegate M so it's a criteria which it is left to us as the leadership of the eff so you look at those branch is that of 100 and the BGA B BPA and then you say one delegate and then you use a zebra approach and you say can't we come up with a a criteria where we reward hard working so then we say okay you are a branch of the eff it's okay but you don't qualify to go
to a conference because a requirement of a branch for you to be recognized as a branch is not that you must go to a conference no you can be a good branch branch in good standing but you're not hardworking and therefore all the hardworking branches which received 10% and above will go to the NPA and then they should have 100 members in good standing and all of that and they must try two times if they fail the first time to have a BGA or BPA where you elect a delegate if you fail the first attempt
you must succeed on the second attempt why a hardworking Branch can fail to convene a corating meeting to elect the delegate if it is a legitimate membership if it is a hardworking Branch it means there is an existing leadership there that's why we we we putting all kinds of uh criterias to ensure that we've got genuine H delegates to the conference of the e F because conferences are a point of infiltration the infiltrators perform very well when you go to the conference so you ought to put mechanisms in place to make sure that you've got
the best at our conference so our conference is going to be a caders ship Forum it's going to be a conference of the best of the best of the eff in the whole of South Africa who would have met the difficult test and went through the of yeah speaking of a difficult test um I remember at the last conference you spoke about the need to build a private school in in Alex remember that yes and and you had said to the delegates if we don't do that and we fail to do that in the next
5 years then we're useless you must vote us out have you been able to do that we bought a land we couldn't find a land in Alexander we bought a land in mburg were hit by covid for 2 years in our term we're not allowed to do anything we came back now when we came back from covid our plans have been stuck at the m city municipality so I can't construct a school without approvals which I needed to do in that 2 years H do the drawings do the approvals how do I do that but
the land is there H and that I didn't say uh this for the South Africa we saying this for the membership yeah of the eff we are going back in December as Leaders who are not scared to give back that feedback this is who we are this is where we started the process this is where we are the incapacity of thec municipalities and the racism of maalis which objected to us building a school there is what we are dealing with we are at the tail end and the good thing is that in that conference we
are even going to present uh the 3D of the school and possibly the approvals uh of that school so the political will has always been there and there were stumping blocks here and there we will overcome them and there will be a school and that school will be called Winnie Mandela combined school all right we're going to take a quick ad break when we come back we still have uh issues to discuss around the party's electoral performance the role of the eff as an offical official um as the opposition party particularly there in Parliament how
they're holding yeah well the MK part no no no MK party is the official opposition you're no longer the the second biggest party or third so all that coming up also his views on the gnu but please send us your WhatsApp voice notes uh with some questions I'll get to them when we return stay with us here on Face the Nation [Music] welcome back we're in conversation with the founder and leader of the eff Julius malma I've been asking you to send some questions if you have any so I'll start with some questions that came
through via X um Lan says the question to Julius how must people trust the eff when its prominent leaders are leaving the party for other opposition parties what is it that the efff is not doing right that makes its best leaders to leave I'll get you to respond to that Mr MMA before I go to the next question well what is it that the eff has changed from its formation until now H that which you have been voting for and now they've changed and said they are no longer following that policy and they are following
a certain policy therefore we have to change we have to support political parties as political parties with policy position on matters you can put da policy on education here put e policy on education here and then the rest of these others you can't put their policies anywhere so it's unfortunate if people are going to follow individuals there's nothing we can do about that um the ANC suffered the same uh blow when people decided to follow an individual so um with the eff it was not individual it was a a policy conference that adopted the fond
Manifesto and that's what you should trust in and the contion of the eff all of them are still intact eff on any issue that it was founded on if you voted for it in 2019 H and 2014 that issue is still there yeah all right that was the first uh tweet uh that came through the other tweets as well says can you please ask Mr MMA if he's ready to change open border policy because it's alleged that the open border policy destroyed his party that's a message there from legasa this is one of the questions
that I have around the issue of immigration and how you think you have addressed it because when I told people you coming on the show and I said what issue do you do you want me to raise with Julius malma a lot of them said please get his thoughts on the issue around immigration and whether he thinks the messaging has been correct over the years what is your view on that my brother in 2014 I was told to change land expropriation without compensation because the messaging is not right they will always find something to attack
you they split hairs and when I stood firm on land expropriation without comp compensation they were even doing campaigns giving people title Deeds they say people once titled it this person is going to take your land and all of that all of a sudden it has changed it's no longer about the land this open border policy was there in 2014 was there in 2019 but it didn't work what else can we find to attack them whether me and you like it or not there are no borders in South Africa that is just something written for
formality on the founding Manifesto of the efff there are no bords my brother I can tell you it's like we behave like a mad person who has got a shack and a and and a yard he's given a stand with a shake he goes and put a gate where there's no fence you put a gate when you go you don't have a fence when you come back you come back and unlock that gate and open you neighbor is looking at he like what is this H gon Mckenzie was running all over H limo River saying
he's chasing a zimbabweans who are Crossing into South Africa almost e by crocodiles for doing that but the foolish him he didn't know he was proving what I'm saying correct that there is no fans so what open board are you talking about which is not happening now ER which is going to happen after the eff takes over government these Africans have always been here if you doubt there is a language called faka law was formed long before the arrival of the eff why the migrant laborers met they couldn't communicate amongst themselves when they were building
Afric South African economy it was built by zambians was built by moans was built by zimbabweans built by South Africans who could not communicate among themselves they formed a language law where was the eff when these migrant laborers were here I'm just saying we must not find ourselves behind time the E is being punished for being ahead of the times we say things now you guys come to appreciate them extremely late because we're too far H in thinking so uh and these Africans when you needed them they were there for you the Frontline states were
there people got killed in L people got killed in mozek people got killed in swiland in in in bwana because they were suspected to have been harboring the terrorist meaning your liberators your Liberation and movements were alleged to have headquarters in those places someone says don't tell us about Nigerians you even go to an extent of saying Nigerians gave us money for our Liberation is true from the the civil servants of Nigeria monies were deducted from them to support the liberation of South Africa So today we're in a comfortable place we say we don't want
them the eff agrees that we don't want undocumented people in South Africa how can we say South Africans must get IDs and then welcome people who are not undocumented everybody has to be documented so that if any wrongdoing happens for whatever reason we are looking for you we need to find your location so we need to find a way they are here already you go and put them in lindela with our state money which you are saying it's supposed to buy medicine we pay buses we take them back they come back the following day not
next week so what would be your solution as the the solution is let's go and to these people so don't Deport them rather find a way to formalize we need to document them because whether you like it or not my brother they are here you know what they do in December they hand themselves over in lindela so that they can go and eat Christmas at home and then in January they come back that money could have been used on some feeding scheme to feed the children of the poor or in the clinics the reality of
the you are in Den H and the xenophobic people are in denial that's a problem they are in denial that these people are here they think they are still coming they're not coming they here how do we deal with that how how what about the issue of scarce resources cuz you know about the unemployment in this country and what government is trying to do is also make it difficult for foreign Nationals to have jobs here not necessarily make it difficult but you need to find a way so that you don't get a helper or anybody
else where there's no scar skills who gets a job here without considering South Africans first so how do we deal with the issue of scarce resources cuz when you've got all of them here and you're saying let's formalize them we don't have jobs so the competition is high so you're going to have South Africans that are without jobs some of the jobs are really taken by some of the foreign Nationals whether they're here legally or not I've never had a country where it says it doesn't want to grow numbers matter when it comes to geopolitics
China it is what it is because of its size of its population but its economy is growing very well our is not because the leadership is working let's industrialize let's make sure that manufacturing grows in South Africa let's create jobs but all I'm saying is you are saying these people are coming to take jobs which jobs are you talking about because there are no jobs that South Africans are accepting which are a reflection of slavery these people are being enslaved here in South Africa and when you say they've taken South African South Africans jobs you
are saying South Africans must be enslaved these are not jobs these are slaves jobs which South Africans don't want to work up normal hours to work under difficult conditions and don't get paid and don't have rights so no South African wants that at the level where it's a required skill South Africa makes it very clear that we must give preference to South Africans who've got the similar H requirement unless we don't have Artisans then we go and fetch from other countries we're going to chase these people out of South Africa tomorrow the whole plumbing system
and S system of South Africa will go into a blockade and will not be in a position to ourselves because we don't have Artisans yeah the whole of South Africa will go into electricity crisis because you chased away the electricians but we do have South African plumbers and South African electricians they are not enough they they can't meet the demand it's like saying we produce Chicken in South Africa therefore we can't take chicken from South Africa uh-uh we don't produce to the capacity of the demand of South Africa so all I'm saying is where a
job is given a South African with a same qualifications should be given a preference we cannot prefer a person who's not a South African to the one that is going to pay tax m in South Africa and that is not what we're dealing with I want you to present any states to me that says if we Deport this ER foreigners so many jobs are going to be H created look at what's happening in education we are retrenching Educators not because foreigners have taken the positions of Educators we we don't have the political will to sustain
those jobs as a result they're going to be lost not because of Any Foreigner the still factories have closed down not because of Any a foreigner the infrastructure in South Africa is decaying because there's no leadership that wants to look after that it's not a foreigner manufacturing which used to be the biggest contributor to our GDP it is actually being replaced by Finance which doesn't create a lot of job uh opportunities for people but you know that if you going to Manufacturing you going to create a lot of jobs a factory I mean manufacturing used
to account for thousands of jobs more than 150,000 jobs H in man in manufacturing alone today you can't count more than 80,000 of jobs in manufacturing so you can't say the foreigners have actually the jobs are still the 150,000 of them of them the foreigners have taken them no the factories have closed down down and jobs were lost not because foreigners came in but because the the the financial sector has overtaken manufacturing and financial sector does not want to deal with industrialization anything longterm the financial sector does not want to support it why because they
deal with hot money they deal with what short-term investment and they don't want anything to do with long-term investment let's talk about the eff electoral performance um it it wasn't the best of results I mean you're now under 10% MH do you think that part of the problem I mean I'm sure you've done your assessment by now of whether or not some of the things the eff did or said were a result of uh that electoral performance and I wonder if your approach in Parliament over the years was also a part of the problem in
your view because you did say after elections that our strategy is now going to change you're not going to see us shouting and being kicked out of parliament we're going to um no longer disrupt parliamentary meetings but instead focus on playing a robust um opposition do you think that also affected your performance no that's what that is what sustained the eff you can't introduce yourself like you have been here you ought to introduce yourself in a manner that you will be failed that you have arrived so you must learn H the law of presence so
for the past 10 years we're establishing the presence of the eff in Parliament through the approach and through ER our regalia which was a reflective of representation of the working class we never lost support because of that because that behavior if you check it by the way it was worse between 2014 and 2019 it was more robust and more radical and got us more vote in 2019 why would it lose us vote vote in 2024 I'm just saying my brother we must not listen to people who have a mind of a red who can't think
Beyond be behind 10 years as to what happened previously and what's happening now then we get numbers in 2019 which we never expected boom in kzn 350,000 to the e oh when we look at why did we get this result is because because there are people who are angry with seral rapos in thec and who are fighting for Zuma and they've got no home that's why they ended up taking cover under the efff what the eff failed to do was to take that opportunity and intensify political education and convert them into permanent supporters of H
the eff so they e lost no numbers to anything except losing numbers to that which never belonged to it and EF did not take effort to win it over it just took it as obvious that these people are ours where we when Marshall was giving us results uh in kzn h in 2019 we were actually shocked he says we passed 100,000 we passed 200 said don't play Such game said him we're going we're coming this way so we were shocked in 2019 by K and performance the same way we're shocked Now by kzn performance no
policy position so let's take open borders why mashaba did not get 10% because your measure of success all of you is 10% that if you support a a open border where there is a um a African Union you lose vote why didn't Mas get the votes why didn't get get the votes because he jumped there almost fainted he got nothing close to 10% mas and G group combined still don't come close to the eff but they're not as old as the eff and they still did not get what the eff got when the the efff
was their age don't forget that so you must compare those things don't be a historical yeah let's talk about the so how do you crystallize that support though are you cuz the MK party really ruffled feathers now a lot of parties including yourselves are feeling how do you how do you go back to the to the to the drawing board we lost less than 1% but you guys are projecting us as if we lost h 177% thec lost in this election but the ANC is being covered with the face of the efff the same thing
you did with VBS to put the efff to be the face of VBS and not thec thec lost big time the eff is going to regain it a loss ground because the eff it policy and its leadership did not do anything wrong to offend South Africans if anything we're working very hard and we are the only organization that works very hard for South Africans none of these organization put B holes none of these organizations renovate old age homes none of these organization as organizations take children to schools regel the roads try to patch the portoles
try to create some bridges for our communities the eff does that none of these people do what what speaking of E F it's also a matter that has come out a lot for the organization even before the elections post there's now an affidavit by Chi and you have spoken already responding to that in some way the question I have though is when you look at SCA right as a company have you personally received any monies from SCA CUA was doing business with Val Investments Val was receiving money from from VBS did you personally receive or
any of your family members close go to you receive any monies from as a a neutral um you know journalist you should be knowing that I was cleared by Parliament Ethics Committee all of this that which you asking were alleged and sent to Ethics Committee in Parliament where thec was still in majority they still could not find me guilty because I've never done anything wrong none of my families have ever done anything wrong if anything I said in that Parliament that you are talking and I was saying this to kumu you are talking about VBS
you want to know more information what is VBS as the M Minister next to you and I was referring to T we had taken money to VBS and today she's in trouble you know why she's in trouble it's not because of VBS because she went to fight for the independence of the NPA but wants to hand over NPA to those guys of zondo commission they want recordings of zondo commission from her they want all types of things and B once her contract extended and when TBI put her foot down they went for her because those
guys who were leading I don't know the they were like the prosecutors of zondo commission evid leaders evidence leaders they are now working for NP PA after they referred the zondo commission report to NPA and said guys you will decide if you want to prosecute or not on that side then they go and catch the javelin on the other side wanting to prosecute the people they said we are done with them you will make a decision so she says how how do you do that okay the recordings she says give me recordings is these things
of spying they they were spying on us listening to our phones listening to putting listening devices and all of that all of that the custodian of that is the Department of Justice so she has put those things safe under whatever Administration but says bring all the recordings to me the of the zondo commission she says no it doesn't work like that you say I want CL recordings and these are the things I want in the recordings the Department of Justice they've got their own mechanism they go and listen take only that part and then give
it to B we don't want to know your girlfriend through b because you'll be hearing the things she's not supposed to be hearing if she gets all the recordings so they want to kill her because they want gu they want all of them and all of that that we don't have a problem with that but they are now using VBS as a smoke screen she did not commit VBS now as a Minister of Justice why was she not the face of VBS when the eff was the face of VBS what happened now for them to
go for because she came from that VBS arrangement in Pani to become a minister of cockta is it allowed that you can be a minister of cockta even if they allegation of corruption but not Minister of Justice where were these allegations What about Brian um what I mean I don't know if he's a member of the organization but he's had to pay back over 4 million Rand um back to um to people who are handling what's happened with VBS now you are the people that are fighting for those that have benefited anyhow to be held
accountable have you asked Brian the questions like that Floyd shivambu brother no no no it's not my place why you I go around asking members about H what they are doing you are right you are saying people are being held accountable and when I heard that he's paying back the money that is part of being held accountable Zuma paid back the money Zuma also paid the VBS if he did a bond which he got now lady P was also in the VBS Bond or something which yeah she was there they are Your Darlings you you'll
never know their names you know the names of those you don't like to demonstrate there's no principle many names a lot of names are there this is just used to Blackmail people when they try to speak they say will release this thing about you so if he paid good for him that is part of being held accountable it means he got the money because there a transaction between companies and Banks and then the curators said we want our money you know curators asked even the king of the the the Benda King do you know Mal
when they called him in a how do you know him how did he get into the vbn and he came back shocked that how do I get questioned half a day about you and how I know you when we have because it was a political witch hand which I which which I defeated which I will still defeat they're going to come out of that thing of VBS one by one they are going to eat each other through b in the NPA because she says these people are accusing me even my friends internationally are laughing at
me that I've come into this position I've not done anything doing anything is to go after prominent politicians that are found in zondo commission which we don't have a problem with they those are their own problems I'm told I've got 30 minutes they're going to fight with me what's your assessment 30 seconds 30 seconds what's your assessment of the gnu so far it has failed how can a minister not go to a place where the president is signing a bill that that is bringing cabinet into distribute the President should have fired that Minister there and
there because when you are there you are no longer serving the da Constitution you are saving the South African Constitution this has failed even in Practical terms not in theory the Bella Bill exposed these people for what they are a marriage of inconvenience a DA Le er er government it's not an anc-led government it's a gnu Helen told you where I went to him he said let me lie to them and say is a government of national Unity because if I tell them straight that is me and you they're not going to agree so it
has failed whether they are in denial or not it has failed they're going to fight on nhi they are going to fight on NPA because the reason why you see the Communist Party taking a posture is taking you must just look at what does GU manashi stand in all of this that's why the Communist party does not agree because they know there's a Crocodile waiting to Sol them Julius malma thank you so much for making time for us thank you foring us and thanks to [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Applause]
