Viral Content Expert: Give Me 90 Minutes And You'll Never Struggle To Sell Again

A lot of people want to outsource storytelling. They want to hire marketers, advertising agencies, PR. But the truth is, you got to [music] master it first. And the only way to get money is to tell the right story. >> Let's break it down. What is the anatomy of a [music] good story? >> This is going to sound simple, but nobody does it. This is what I do. >> Meet Ben Watkins, creator turned founder and one of the greatest storytelling minds in the business. And today, he's revealing his storytelling secrets to creating content that's [music] impossible

to ignore. You have to grab their attention. The most powerful word in the universe is someone's name. In a crowd of people, you can say one person's name. They turn and they look at you. It doesn't matter what the content is. You need to have things in There where [music] it feels like you're talking to them. That will stop people in their tracks. >> And how to sell your ideas so you can break through in any dream. >> People buy based on emotion, [music] not logic. So, if you have a product, you can tell how

useful it is, what the price is, but that's not enough. You need to >> I am literally stealing that from now on. >> I want to thank my wife. I am living the dream. You are the one who created that dream. >> I was still working a 9 to5, but I must have booked five, six shows during that first year. Then a soap opera calls for The Young and of the Restless. I get the part. I start making good money. We buy a house. Meanwhile, a bunch of brands [music] are interested in doing a branded

campaign was multi-million dollar. Right around that time, I'm in Negotiations with the soap opera. The soap says, "You need to tell us by end of day [music] Thursday." My agent said, "Just take the deal." My wife says, "Just take the deal." I said, "I'm not taking the deal." Candy's like, "You're [music] crazy. Why wouldn't you just take the deal? I said, I got this campaign. I'll be able to make a living for it. She's like, but the campaign's not closed. And I'm like, but it's going to be closed on Friday. Friday, Crickets. You have no

campaign and you're being written off of the sofa. >> Oh my god. So, [music] what happens next? >> In previous videos, we have talked about a project where we pick one dream to help out with all as part of a project called what's your dream. The only problem with that is that they are very timeconuming and ultimately we can only help out with one dream. So we have changed things up and now we help with Various dreams in smaller ways. So that can mean connecting you with someone that's going to help you in your dream

or that can mean meeting with you and giving you advice. Whatever it may be, we want to literally help you. Let us know in the comments what your dream is, what you are currently struggling with and make sure that you are subscribed because you might just hear from us very soon. I also want to say at the end of our interview with Ben, we're going to Be breaking down his entire journey into principles and actionable steps so that you can apply it into your dream and your business today. All right, guys, let's get into the

video. >> Ben, what is something that you wish everyone understood about story? >> People buy based on emotion, not logic. And I I used to work on a show called Burn Notice, right? And the the main character is a spy who's been blacklisted. So you can imagine the type Of research I was doing. And I actually got my hands on a classified document one time. And it was about scops. And one of the key tenants was that they said humans don't make decisions based on logic. They make them based on emotion. So if you have

a product, it really doesn't matter, right? I mean, you can tell about how good the product is, how useful it is, what the price is, but somewhere in there, you need to tap into your consumers, your customers Emotion. And for me, the way we elicit emotion is through telling stories. >> When you look at storytelling, do you think it's something that, let's say, a business owner, is this something that applies to them? Do they have to learn how to master story? >> Yeah, absolutely. When you understand story and how to use it, your hit rate

on success goes up exponentially. I know that because learning how to tell a story changed my life. Some of the most Successful people in the world, a big reason they got to where they are is because they're master storytellers. Taylor Swift, Steve Jobs, Barack Obama, three different industries, same skill. They all mastered storytelling. And a lot of people want to outsource storytelling. They want to hire marketers, advertising agencies, promoters, PR. But the truth is, you got to master it first. If everyone understood that, then they could harness That power. That doesn't mean you're going to

become a paid screenwriter in Hollywood. But it is something to embrace and use. I mean, when you look at an episode of Shark Tank and somebody goes to sell a product, but 99% of the time, what's really getting bought? It's the story. I firmly believe storytelling is something anyone can learn and actually I think it's something everyone should learn. >> What's really interesting is that people Really do underestimate the power of story and I actually found this experiment that I genuinely like I wish I knew this earlier and I wish everyone knew it. It's basically

this journalist, he got 200 items off of eBay and he bought it for $129 and then he decided he was going to resell them but with a caveat that he was going to get professional writers to write a story about each item and he makes $8,000. >> And so story clearly elevates the value Of something >> because it's tapping into an emotion. People make decisions based on that. That's what my job is. Like when I actually go in to sell something now it's all about the emotion. So, I have to get you connected and when

I do, the chances of you buying that pitch, they skyrocket. >> So, if someone wants to dramatically improve their storytelling skills, where should they start? >> I think the first place you start is what I call principles of messaging, which is what are you trying to say? Why are you saying this? Who is this for? And what are you promising the audience? When I go to tell a story, I have to have a bigger uh purpose for telling that story. that helps become what I would call it a north star. >> And then I make

decisions based on that. >> So let's break it down. What is the anatomy of a good story? >> For me, there are four key pillars to a good story. And the first one is get their attention. >> What are the different ways that we can get someone's attention? >> I'm sure there's a million ways, but but for me it boils down to three key ways. The first way is surprise. The human brain is engineered to relax based on familiarity and pattern recognition. And as soon as you break the pattern, people perk up. The second way

is emotion. That's obvious. It's not always easy to do, but when they feel that emotion, if I'm the cause of that emotion, then they're focused on me. >> And then the third way that I like to get someone's attention is what I call call them by their name. Once you notice this pattern, you start seeing it everywhere. It's basically inspired by an old African proverb by the most powerful word in the universe is someone's name. That's the most powerful Way to get their attention. That will stop people in their tracks. >> In a crowd of

people, you can say one person's name, they turn and they look at you. That almost becomes the easiest way to do it. Now, it doesn't matter what the content is. You need to have things in there where it feels like they can relate to it. Almost feels like you're talking to them or that condition or that circumstance is what they feel. Think about how many people woke up Every day with some sort of plan to start some sort of New Year's resolution or change some sort of habit or behavior and then a slogan comes out

and says just do it and they think it's saying that right to them. That's how easy it is to call people by their name. >> This is really like all coming together for me when I'm hearing you say this because it's making me think of Steve Jobs. He had that, you know, that really beautiful commercial of think different, Right? And it starts with here to the crazy ones, right? what really worked about that commercial and it really I think cemented the ethos of Apple in general which is it's to the rebels. It's to the ones

who think different. That's right. And I think anyone that felt like a creative, an outlier, someone who had been made fun of for thinking different, they saw themselves in that commercial and suddenly they were relating to people like Einstein. Right. People want to know that you're speaking to them in some capacity. >> Yep. Now, let's translate that into how long into a clip do you have before you're going to lose their attention? What do you need to happen within seconds? How do you use sound to get people's attention? What song is going to make them

lean in? What can someone say? Can you have a surprise that makes people perk up? Can you say something in those first 10 seconds that's going to Connect with people emotionally? Are you going to say something that caused them by their name in the first 10 seconds? If so, you're probably going to get them to lean in. And so you mentioned there are four different ways to tell a good story. What is number two? >> The first pillar is attention. The second pillar when it comes to telling a good story is you have to make

them feel something. For me it boil down to three C's. Can you get content, character, and Circumstances working at the same time? All three eliciting emotion. Can you get Titanic where you have two characters you care about? That's the characters professing their love. That's the content. while the ship is sinking, there's your circumstance. If you get all those three working, then you're gonna have Titanic. >> I think what I'm interested in is how do storytellers actually create emotion rather than just hoping that an audience Is going to feel it. >> We're just talking about the

difference between stating a fact and and telling a story. So, people who state a fact, that's not enough cuz I'm not making this decision based on logic. I need you to tap into my emotion. It's the difference between a commercial where a product just gets described and a commercial that makes people feel like they are the ones using that product and needing that product. It makes them feel A certain way. So, I don't want you to just see my resume. I want you to see me. >> What's number three? >> The third pillar for me

in storytelling is that it should teach you something. I actually look for opportunities to take a world people are familiar with and show them parts of it that they didn't know were there and they're going to learn something from that. Now, we can take this all the way back to being Around the campfire as cavemen and I'm telling you a story about the bear that attacked me and what you're learning is how to avoid an attack, how to survive an attack, how heavy bears are, how many claws. You're learning everything about a bear in the

context of a really cool story. You lean in when that happens. I think it just goes back to we're living in a day where there's so we're so oversaturated with content that a huge part of a way to do that to really stick In someone's mind is to teach them something because ultimately you're providing them value by doing that right and just people don't feel like they've just had like empty calories they feel like they've had something of substance >> and number four >> number four is leave them wanting more >> and so what's the

key to a good cliffhanger >> I actually don't approach it as cliffhers I actually approach it as Questions >> okay >> I need to establish a question between myself and the audience that they have to get that answered. And everything I've done up to that point before I ask the question has to also be promising them that the way that gets answered, they're going to really appreciate. That's what I consider leave them wanting more. >> It reminds me of like the curiosity gap. You're just really trying to make that curiosity gap as wide as possible.

>> Yeah. >> So, from a business lens, how would you from what you've seen, you're a business owner, how do you apply those principles? I mean the story stuff that one is the most important in the business side, right? I all those pillars come into play. It's like when I go into pitch, I'm not only going to tell you this story, but I need to do it In a way where you become emotionally attached to me as the storyteller and to what I like to say infect people with the purpose of the project. If I

inspire them, if I get them infected in the purpose of this project, now they're just thinking about I need to make that because there's a reason for it. I mean, literally, my rule when I go into a pitch is that the first thing they should do leaving that room is call their boss or call their wife or their Husband or grab a co-orker and be talking about the pitch they just heard. I mean, sometimes it's as simple as me saying, "I think we should do this for our story." And all of a sudden, they're emotionally

invested in our story. And every decision they make, they start to filter through that lens. I've heard there's like a study that if someone gives you a piece of like even just an idea and a pitch that increases the odds of them wanting to actually execute on Whatever it is. It could be an investment or it could be greenlighting a show. Um that it actually increases their odds because now they feel ownership over it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. When they offer an idea, you riff on that. You don't even have to incorporate that idea.

Just riffing on that makes them feel like they're part of the process. That makes them have ownership. Now, they're going to fight tooth and nail to Make sure that thing works. Now, if I want to shorten the time it takes to connect with you, I need to know about you as well. >> M. >> So, I'm reading you as soon as I get into the room. What is your mood? A lot of people, oh no, oh no, she's in a bad mood. I don't think that's a bad thing. If you're in a bad mood, it's

going to be harder to get you engaged. But if I flip the script, I just became the best Part of your day. Just the thought that somebody could be having a terrible day and that that is actually a good thing. >> Yeah. >> I've never heard anyone say that before. >> But isn't that aren't those the best stories? I mean, they're key to everyone's story is like something's not going right and then there's a breakthrough, >> right? >> So, we can do that cycle all the time That >> you just assume they'll be do you

assume prepare that they'll be in a bad mood just in case to >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. In my business, I go in thinking you're either in a bad mood or you're running out of time or you're bored or you've heard five pitches. I'm the sixth. You had a heavy lunch. It's going to be hard for you to even stay awake. >> Yeah. >> And then I'm going to make sure that this pitch is going to change all of that. I got to be ready for this pitch and the way I deliver it to change all

of that. That alone is memorable. I walk in rooms, I'm always doing research on who am I going to be talking to. And not only do I want to know who they are, but I'm looking for the ways we overlap because that means I'm going to be able to speed up the amount of time it takes for us to have a connection. If we any Overlap we have, it could be two degrees of separation or it could be something surprising. It turns out we both went to the same school. Never knew that. I'm not going

to go in there and be like, "Hey, we both went to the same school. I'm going to wait until a certain moment then I'm just going to find a good way to drop that." They're going to perk up and now all of a sudden I've triggered nostalgia up. So, I'm always looking for every chance I have to create those type Of connections. Who am I talking to? What am I telling them? How do I infect them with my purpose? >> I feel like when you're talking, it just makes me think it's becoming a master story

is almost like becoming a master in people. When we think about getting to know someone and we think about especially like character for example, the way that I see that it translate to even just business, right? getting to know the consumer the way that you get To know a character, you are going to increase your odds of success there >> 100%. >> And so I want to do a very mini rapid fire. >> Okay. >> I'm sure you've seen a good storyteller before your eyes that they're just at a dinner party or in a pitch.

They're telling you a good story. What do you feel is the difference between a good storyteller and a master storyteller? >> It it's not oh uh the ability to like really paint the picture more. No, no, no, no. It's the ability to know what to leave out. >> It's more about what you don't say. >> It's like that quote from Mark Twain. I'm not going to get it perfect, but it's like, I'm sorry this letter is so long. I didn't have time to make it shorter. That is what separates good storytellers from master storytellers. >>

When you're telling a story, how do you decide which details to include and which ones to leave out? I can do the storytelling when it's written, but the second I'm telling a story to my friends, I have ADHD, so I have like all these anecdotes that I feel like are important. And especially pitching, I'm like, "But this is really important backtory. I need to include this." And it becomes really overwhelming. So, how do you know which details you should Leave in in that story and which ones you should leave out? >> I come up with

two categories. So, there's details you need to keep the story moving forward. And then there are details you withhold because you want people to lean in and ask, make them ask. >> So, when you're telling story, you be like, "What detail did I have to tell for keep the momentum of this pitch? and what detail do I want to plant seeds That make them ask about it and then you get to show off, >> right? >> But you didn't ramble. You didn't drone on it. >> Maybe this is an out there question, but I'm thinking

about like a business owner that's like pitching their company. I feel like the desire is to just like give all the clarity in the world, but what you're saying is that that that's not always good, right? Because that Maybe doesn't invite >> No, no, no, no, no. Again, let's go back like logic is not going to make this decision. I might need facts. I might need, you know, what is the the profit margin, the projected profit margin, what are our sales up to that? Those are facts. That's fine. Mostly, what I need is for you

to lean in and say, well, what is this used for? Why does that matter? Who am I working with? Why does that matter? As soon as you know you Have somebody emotionally, that's when you move on in the pitch. I have multiple categories when I'm pitching and I might have a whole thing planned, but as soon as I start say go like this, I'm going to truncate that section. If you decide you want to come back and ask more about it, then we're having a conversation. Now I'm winning even more. So if you're selling something,

you somebody say, "Well, here's you're talking through the numbers." And you Can already tell they're like, "Yeah, the numbers. I'm already good on the number." Okay, now we talking something else. We're moving to another section. Somebody might say, "Okay, let's dig more into the numbers later." But we're not going to do that right now. We're not going to overexlain. >> Actually, I want to talk quickly. You have values that I thought were really interesting that I would like to read to you that I picked a few of my favorites. >> Oh, okay. >> So, one

of them is be addicted to honest feedback. It'll make you rich. >> Yes. It's tough to write. It's even harder to share that writing with the world, even with people close to you. I remember sharing a script with someone and saying, "But, you know, I've already done four drafts." So, I mean, really, I'm just looking for some, you know, brief thoughts about I remember basically prefiltering their feedback. And I also remember someone asking me, "What type of notes do you want?" I realized, "Okay, we're faking it now. We're taking care of my feelings." And so,

from that point forward, I just stopped worrying about what people are going to say. I want it as honest as it can get because I I don't care about my feelings. I want this script to be right. And once I did that, the scripts came in so much sharper, so much more bulletproof, and they worked for me so Much better. They would either sell or they would open the doors to great opportunities and jobs. >> So, there's another value that I want to bring up and it's collaborate with people who are pursuing their joy. the

underdogs, the overachievers, the workaholics, people who are honest, inspired, and passionate about what they do. To that point, are these people that you overall I've heard people say look for the person with a chip on their Shoulders. Is kind of more or less what you mean by that? >> I would say that's part of it, right? This is something that I believe in because it makes your environment better. The underdogs, the people who are super motivated and they're ambitious. They get other people inspired. They get other people excited and they always do more. Some of

them show up and it's like they've been doing this for 20 years and they show up like It's the first day at Disneyland wideeyed and wonderment. That changes how they do their job. It changes how everyone around them is. That's what we're looking for. I want them to be so invested that they will save my show one day. No matter what position they're in, I want you to be obsessed with what we're doing. And I don't believe in that work life balance thing. It's just life. It's just life. So, you need to enjoy coming and

doing this project as much as You would enjoy spending time with your loved ones, going on a vacation, like that's how much I want you to be looking forward to this. And then I know when you leave and it's like 11:00 at night and you hear a song and you go, "That would be perfect for this scene." Or you see an actor and like they'd be perfect in that role. Or you read an article and you say, "This would be great for a show." And you're doing this at 11 at night because you're so engaged.

>> I am literally stealing them from now on. I think that's my favorite take on work life balance I've ever heard in my life. >> There's so many examples of that. I was season 6 of Burn Notice. We lost a location one time and we were having a conversation outside a craft food truck. We're just like panicking, scrambling. This thing like shoots a day or two later and the woman on the craft services truck says, "I think I might Know a place that will work great." And I said, "Well, hold on. How did you know?"

She was reading the scripts. She cared about the outcome of this show. She wasn't just collecting a check. And when I found that out, I said, "I need to do that with everybody I work with." And that means they have to feel value. So if I ever show up to a set and they feel like the hierarchy is so entrenched that they have to act or Perform or be on guard, then that means that they haven't been infused with this sense that they're just as valuable as anybody else here. >> You know, when you come

on set, like people aren't holding their breath, which is like really impressive. It's really beautiful that you created a culture that you're on set and it it's exciting. It's like, okay, like we don't have to no one has to act. >> Yeah. And I think that that's really Important for culture because if you have a team that's acting different in front of you than behind you, then you haven't really set the foundation when you're looking for and hiring someone. What is a question that you ask in your interviews? >> Okay. So, if I'm really considering

somebody for a crucial role, I I want to not only find out what they're good at, but I want to find out what makes them tick. And I will ask questions that are designed to give me a window into their uh motivation. And two of them are, you know, if something great happens to you, who's the first person you call? >> And the second one is, who's your nemesis? And I asked that question because if you have a nemesis, that's a chip on your shoulder. People sometimes are motivated by that. I remember being motivated by

that. I remember being motivated by I Want this person to hear that I just sold a show because they told me I'd never get there. That's a nemesis. And a lot of folks have those people and sometimes I've talked to people and asked that question. It'll be somebody like arrival in the eighth grade. >> Yeah. >> And they're just like, I dream of them reading that deadline announcement when I got my first show. Oh, going to a high school reunion and the person that Always used to make fun of me. Now they see what I've

become. And I don't want you to live your whole life with that. But I do want to know if there's that energy there because I know you're going to have a little extra oomph in what you're doing. Also, it gives me a chance to kind of tap into you cuz some people haven't really thought about it, but it's actually operating on the subconscious and it's something you should think about because it's Unfinished business. >> Hey Roy, do you want to take a vacation? >> That sounds fun. >> You know who we're going to take a

vacation with? >> Who? >> Well, not with her, but through her. >> What? [laughter] And this episode is not sponsored, but it is our shout out. Do I do it here or there? We have a tradition on this channel where we like to shout out one Of your dreams. The one that we want to shout out today is Travel with Barbs. We have met with Barbara and she is not only lovely and incredible and on top of it, but she also really does understand how to make it easier for people who are traveling. I have

never never met anyone as passionate about traveling her as her. She has no idea that we're doing this, but we want to celebrate her because she is absolutely crushing [music] it at her dream. She has been Working towards this for a very, very long time, and you can see [music] on her content, all of the love and the work that she is putting on there. So, give her a follow, comment on her videos, send her a DM. I'm going to put her website [music] right here so that you can kind of see a little bit

more of what she does, the services that she offers. Just want to congratulate you, Barbara. You're doing an incredible job and you are inspiring us. Can't wait for That next vac. Back to the video. So, I want to move on to your story. You're a showrunner, which for those who don't know what a showrunner is, I like to call it like they are the god of TV, right? In film, you have, you know, the directors, it's their medium, but in TV, it's the writers and you are the lead writer, the the creator in a lot

of instances, but you are it's your vision and your show. So, you are a showrunner and currently you have one of the most Prevalent shows in Hollywood at the moment on Amazon. We have Cross season 2 which is out. >> And what's interesting is that you didn't always start off in the writing game. You started off in another arena very close by. >> Yes. >> In acting. >> Yeah. I started off doing theater in college on a fluke. Fell in love with it and most of it was acting. And I thought I would pursue acting

as a career. I'd got out of college, I started doing a little regional theater and then I just started to build some network connections and then one day I had a director, a mentor of mine who spoke to a casting director in New York and I live in California and she said, "Well, if you're ever in New York, come on in for a general meeting." And I thought, "Oh, this is my big break." I didn't know anything about Hollywood. I just knew that this big- time casting director, she happened to be a casting director for

a soap opera was saying she wanted to meet me. And so I was married at the time, married my wife Candy in college. And both of us are like naive. We're also delusional. And I will say that our whole lives we have always leaned into the delusional naive. Sometimes even being what I would call self-imposed delusion so that we're more willing to take risks. But in this Case, we like took two credit cards that were basically almost at their limit, combined them to buy me a ticket to New York. She said, "Whenever you're in New

York, well, I'll be in New York in two weeks." >> And for those who don't know what a general meeting is, >> that's that that's the first thing. Anybody who hears this story that has been in the business, they're like, "Hold on, hold on, hold on. You sat There and maxed out two credit cards while you were broke just to fly to New York for a general meeting." A general meeting is like uh casting directors have them with actors just to get to know them, see their face so that later when they have them in

auditions, they'll already have a reference point. There's no role. You're not about to go there and win a role and get your big break. That's just them literally just meeting you. They shake your hand. They Say, "Hi, where are you from?" You get your name and then you're out the door. >> 95% of them lead to nothing. I would say probably more than that, but >> most of them they never remember you. The only reason they're any good is just gonna be like, "Oh, it's good to see you again." >> Versus, "Oh, it's nice to

meet you." That is literally it. And when you say, "It's good to see you again." They're looking at you like, "I saw you before." So, I fly there. It's still winter. I have no winter clothes. I'm walking through New York. I show up to this lady's office. She didn't know that I got onto the calendar because I was put on by her assistant. So, when I show up and I say who I am and she she literally says, "Hold on. you flew all the way to New York for a general? And I said, "Yeah." And

in my mind, I'm thinking, "How why is that stupid?" I'm thinking, "General means you generally are Interested." And so it gave her pause, but then it changed everything because then she said, "I'm going to have you do a scene." She never intended for me to do a scene. She just said, "I'm going to have you do a scene since you've come 3,000 miles in the middle of winter." She gives me the scene. I have like 30 minutes to prepare. I go put the scene on tape. Then she says, "Come in here. Uh, the scene was

really good. I'm actually going to put you up for a Role." By the time I left New York, I had an agent and I got cast in a small role on that soap opera. Then I go back home. I make a deal with my wife Candy. We have two kids and she says, "Um, I'll go with you to LA, but let's make it a year." >> Okay. So, this is like really the launch of your career. And so you move to LA. Do you think that people still need to move for opportunity? >> I'm going

to have two answers. If when You're talking about whether or not you should physically move to areas where that business has a sort of a center or hub or nucleus, the answer is one, you don't have to. But I still say go. And the reason I say go is because when you start chasing your dream, on top of becoming great at what it is you want to do, on top of building out your network, on top of rolling the dice, when you say, "I'm moving." Everybody who knows you, they know you're now taking that Risk.

Everybody you meet in this new town that hears your story and realizes that you rolled the dice and you had the courage to actually come there. Now they are rooting for you. They know what's at risk. If I'm in some small town saying, "Hey, if I start getting some momentum, I'll move." Well, hey man, I got five people here who already risked everything, >> right? >> They risked it all. And I'm not judging Anyone who feels like they got to stay um in a place based on their circumstances. But I am saying I encourage you

to make significant steps that announce to the world what your intentions are. >> So you moved to LA and then you got work as a a parallegal, right? >> Oh yeah. So I I have a parallegal gig set up in LA. We get there the manager is like, you can't have a nine toive job and pursue this. And I remember saying To him, what if I have no choice? >> People in Hollywood, people in entertainment industry, they always giving you all the reasons it won't work. As if the conditions have to be perfect, but they

never are. So I just say, man, I don't I'm not taking no for an answer. I don't have a choice. I have a wife and two kids. I have to have a 9 toive job and still make this work. And then to his credit, he was like, "All right, let's do it." And so now I'm Pursuing acting in Los Angeles at that time. >> And it wasn't that easy. >> So what happens during this time? We had a little bit of what if in screenwriting we would call a mislead because the first year went great

and I was booking all these shows and I was getting all this momentum and I was getting all this great feedback and I was still working a 9 to5 but I I must have booked five six shows as a guest star during that first Year. So that first year was fruitful enough that we decided to extend it by a year and then the second year was crickets. I was still gaining momentum even to the point where I was what they call screen testing for big shows and I didn't know how important screen testing is in

terms of the overall process which means they like you so much they're considering you for a series regular and you've made it to like the last two or three people. You even signed the Contract. So if they pick you, you've already signed a contract. You're on the show. I screen tested for three big shows that year. Did not book any of them. And to anyone else, that's great momentum. To my wife and I, it was like, it's time to move back. Hey, we gave it a nice run, right? And then my wife recommends to me,

hey, why don't you make that short film that you've been talking about for a couple of years, and then you'll have something to remember LA by. I was like, that's a great idea. So, I started down the road of writing and producing a short film. I had no idea how hard that was going to be and how slim the chances of that making a difference are. But that worked in my favor at the time because by the time I realized how hard it is to get a short film done the way I wanted it done,

it was too late. I was so far down the road. I I had to finish. >> I mean, you spent your own money making That film, right? >> How important do you think it is to bet on yourself before anyone else does? I think that your first investor, no matter what you're doing and no matter what resource we are talking about, has to be you. So, are we talking about time? Are we talking about blood? Are we talking about sweat? Are we talking about tears? Are we talking about money? Whoever that is, whatever that resource

is, you can afford something. And as Soon as you put a little bit up, maybe it is like what I did where I paid a couple of friends to help me make a a little demo because people weren't taking to the idea right away. So I said, "Oh, well maybe if I put something on camera and get to know the character in the premise, that'll help." Sure enough, I get some friends, rent a camera, I dress up in a referee uniform. I go to playgrounds in the inner city and I tell the players who are

playing Pickup basketball that I'm from the city of LA and they have a new program they're exploring where they send refs to pickup courts all across the city. And so I'm going to ref your games and we're going to film it. so that our bosses can see if it works. And we do that. We get the footage. I almost get killed. We cut it up. We show that to people and they're like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll help you with this Short." So, you got to be your first investor. You got to take that first

step. You got to show people how much you believe in yourself. At that point, people have watched this short and people that I trust and people that I admire have said they love the short. I'm elated by that. But I don't think anything else beyond that. I'm planning to move back to Northern California. And my wife and I, we had a mailbox. She goes in, gets the mail, comes into the Car, starts going through the envelopes, and there's an envelope from the American Black Film Festival. It says, "I've been selected." And I didn't realize that

American Black Film Festival also has this thing called the HBO Short Film Award. And if you win, you get money. I mean, we were screaming in the car. people would have thought we were crazy. And it goes to that festival and it wins that festival. So, we get money. Then, While I'm at the festival, a soap opera calls say, "Hey, we want to audition this guy for a call back." I said, "Well, I can't make the call back because uh I'm at a film festival." And the cast said, "For for what?" A short film I

did that I had started. And she says, "Well, can you send me the short?" I send her the short. I go through this film festival. By the time I win the film festival, I'm also getting a call from Los Angeles and they are saying, "Forget the call back. We want to test this guy. If he gets the part, we'll rewrite it so that the character will be younger." So, I'm flying back knowing that I'm about to screen test for The Young and the Restless. And the reason is because the executive producer who had already said,

"I think he's too young," has changed his mind because he's seen my performance in the short film. And then I screen test for The Young and the Restless. I get the part And I signed a contract role and it keeps me in Los Angeles. >> And I and there was a a story about a campaign. >> Okay. Yeah. So >> I I did your homework. >> Um Yeah. There's a part of this story I don't tell a lot of people because it it led to some of the toughest times I've had as a creative, some

of the toughest times I've had in the business. Um us as A family. Uh, it led to a really, really tough stretch, but basically I started doing the soap. I started making good money. We buy a house. Um, but meanwhile, the short film is still making the rounds. Goes to Sundance. People in the industry are starting to clock it and reach out. And there are also a company that thinks it would be great to do a commercial campaign around reaches out. and they Actually get a bunch of brands interested in doing a branded campaign like

take this character, take the premise and somehow attach it to your product. And there was down to two brands. A brand paid six figures just to make the negotiations exclusive. They said, "We will pay literally $400,000 just so that during this window the negotiations will be exclusive." And then the campaign itself was multi-million dollars. Right around that Time, I'm in negotiations with the soap opera. And they are saying, "Hey, every year you will get a little more money and a little more guarantee in terms of how many episodes that you star in." And for soap

operas, the most important thing is how many episodes do they guarantee? If they guarantee you two episodes per week, you know what you're going to make minimum. And if you get popular or they use you more, you only make money on top of that. And they were Going to increase my guarantee. So, I was going to make more money, but they said, "We won't increase how much you're making per episode because soap opers just aren't, you know, as popular as they used to be." And I told them, "No." I said, "You're going to give me

the step up in guarantees and you're going to give me the money." And my agent said, "You're crazy." The soap was like, "You're crazy. I heard you just bought a house. What are you doing?" And they, Everybody loves me at this point. The EP calls me. He's like, "Ben, I love you. I love your family. I love your two kids." is like, "What are you doing right now?" And my wife says, "Why? What are you What are you doing?" I said, "Well, you know, I've been writing this time and I'm starting to really like it."

And I got this campaign, so, you know, I feel like I'll be able to make a living for us um doing the writing thing. And my wife saying, "Wait a minute. Like, this Soap is like a part-time job. Like, at the most, you're going to work four days in a week, and even when you do, they run it so efficiently. You're only there for half a day." And I said, "Well, I don't care. They're gonna honor what it was or I'm gonna leave." And I'm playing hard ball with them. Next thing you know, this negotiation

with a big, big brand, global brand. They're saying, "We want to do it." And all this is happening simultaneously. So, the deal With the brand company is unfolding, unfolding. Every update is like, "You're going to get paid this much, and oh, it's going to go for this long, and oh, they're so excited." So, imagine all this coming to a head towards the end of a week. And the soap says, "Hey, this is our best and final answer, and you need to tell us by end of day Thursday." My wife says, "Just take the deal." My

agent said, "Just take the deal." I said, "I'm not taking the deal." And Candy's like, "You're crazy. Why wouldn't you just take the deal?" I said, "Babe, I'm going to do this campaign." She's like, "But the campaign's not closed." And I'm like, "But it's going to be closed on Friday." I said, "If that deal doesn't close, then it's a sign I'm supposed to be a writer, so I'm going to roll the dice." Thursday night, I call the guy who's negotiating the Brandon Entertainment campaign. I say, "Hey, I'm getting ready To give a final answer to

this soap opera. I need to just make sure all this is in place." And he says, "I'm at the airport as we speak. Going to New York to sign the contract. I'll sign it Friday." I call everybody up. I say, "I'm not doing the deal. Friday, crickets. Don't hear from this guy. Saturday, nothing. I'm blowing him up. No response. Everybody involved in the deal can't get to him. Sunday, he calls Me. He's crying. He's literally sobbing on the phone. It turns out that someone from another country came in and said, "Oh, I don't know if

this would work internationally as well as you guys think it would." Whatever they said made somebody nervous enough that they pulled the plug on the entire thing. >> Oh my god. forfeited a $400,000 negotiation fee and killed the whole deal. I find that out on Sunday. So, wake up Monday, you have no campaign, And you're being written off of the soap. You know, we have this um this whole concept of the dark knight of the soul on here, which is not my own concept, but it's obviously a story phrase. And I genuinely when I hear

this cannot help but think that this is like probably one of the darkest I'm sure dark night of the souls >> especially as a parent. >> I cannot describe to you. I cannot Describe to you if you can imagine how deflated I was on that Monday. But I was still in my mind thinking, okay, well, I'll just jump start. I'll get something going. Cut to 3 months later, it's not working. Cut to 6 months later, nothing's moving. You're off the soap at that point. Cut to a year later. You have not been working. Nothing you

have done creatively has taken root. You have put your entire family into a situation that is untenable. And at this Point now I have three kids. And I remember my wife got pregnant and it it there was a moment there where like can we even have another kid? And for us, it was we're just going to figure it out. But during that time period, a lot of us figuring out was really her figuring it out. I had gone down into a whole I was writing every day and I could write all the time every day.

All I was doing is Reading screenplay books and writing and trying to do it. But if you were looking from the outside, you're just seeing this guy with a wife and three kids and a fourth kid on the way. And he's not doing a damn thing. And he's convinced himself that the only way he can save this family is if he has some big break. And it was to the point where my wife, who had stopped working so she could take care of the family after we had our third kid, she had to go back

to work Just to put any little bit of money into the house. And I'm telling you, like we had bought a house with the soap opera money and the um the house went into foreclosure. And I just couldn't believe that the chips had fallen like this. I felt like I'm a good person. I work hard. How could the chips have fallen like this? And I just poured sauce on feeling sorry for myself. But then I compounded it by blaming other people. >> What was the biggest fear you had at the time? How am I going

to feed my family? You know, I had dug a hole so deep that the amount it would take to pull them out, it felt like a Hail Mary. And I had convinced myself that incremental steps was not going to be enough. Cuz for me, it's it's so tough because I grew up so poor. And by the age of 12, I decided I can't rely on anybody. And I started working. And I would have been Heartbroken if I ever got to a point where I would not be providing for my family and I would have kids

who would be seeing me repeat a cycle. Um and then I remember one day when my wife she went to work and I was just sitting at my thing wearing the same clothes I'm always wearing at the typing. She came back early and I look back I say wait what why are you home so early? and she dropped the coldest line I've ever heard. She said, "You give up, I give Up." And she had been telling me, "You got to do something. You got to get a job. You got to do whatever." And I kept

going, "It's not going to matter. I'll never make enough to pull us out of this hole." And I've got to just sell a script or I got to whatever. And then when she came in, she said, "You give up. I give up." The hustle bone kicked back in because I've always been a grinder. I've always had multiple jobs. I've always because the way I grew up so poor I never wanted to be in that situation but for some reason I just wasn't myself but that day literally the next day I was like I'll do anything

>> and I don't have kids but naturally that brings up questions of what will happen to my dreams when I do want to start our family and what's interesting is I had this conversation with a friend who has two daughters and she has a business and she Was saying that if anything having those kids has made her more ambitious and I feel like that's the case for you that in a lot of ways having that family that saved you. >> Mhm. Yeah. I mean for me I wasn't thinking about it when we we had our

first kid. I was 24. I just got out of college. I got married at 21. I knew I wanted a family. In retrospect, yeah, they save you all the time. Imagine you come home from one Of your worst days and your kid comes up and say, "Can you I remember uh one of my sons, I was so beaten one day and I was like feeling starved for myself and mad at the world. But I walked in the door and one of my sons ran up with a piece of paper and a crayon asked me to

draw him Spider-Man. And I [music] remember I was just like and then I go, "Okay, I have to change. I have to be Something for this kid. I actually have to draw Spider-Man and I got to try to do it decent enough cuz this kid if you didn't do it good enough, he would make you do it again cuz he didn't want to color one. It wasn't great." But on top of that, I had to have a different spirit. As they're growing up and you know they're looking at you, you start asking [music] yourself, "Well,

what do you want them to see?" And I was the type of guy that would start a script And never finish it. And I said, I don't want my kids to grow up and see somebody who doesn't know how to finish. There's a whole bunch of things that I did that were just because I was like, I got to be a certain type of example for them. >> The example that you needed. >> Yeah. >> Back then, >> and then they will brighten your day. Kids and families help snap you out of That. For me,

that's how it was. But you don't have to have a family in order for that to be done. But you do need folks around you can help shift your perspective when you're at your worst. That was part of the fuel that helped me finish my first script. >> Didn't you also have to go back to temping at or at parillegal? >> Oh my god. Where did you Oh no. Um, so I went back to temp at the same law firm that had thrown me a going away party. Like 50 60 people in a big conference

room saying, "Congratulations, you're on your way to Young and the Restless." And now I'm going back with my tail between my legs and the same people are there and they are rooting for me, but they're feeling so sorry for me. There's no way getting that stink off. But that's what it took. And then this guy who used to be starring on a soap opera was now a PA for a promo house. And the best thing about it, they would let you work as Much overtime as you wanted. So I was working all day and seven

days a week. And I was pulling myself out of the hole, literally financially. And that began the climb back. >> And so we have a new hope here where uh someone asks you, do you have a speck? I cannot believe the stories you have uncovered. One of the things I had written was a feature version of Quest to Ref. That that feature ended up selling and that helped us get out of Debt, but we still got a ways to go and now there's four kids. Like we are a big family. And um then I have

also written a a script. I've written an original TV pilot. Doesn't sell, but it starts getting into people's hands and they all love it. And one day an executive from Fox calls. He said, "I want to put you up for a show, but one script is not enough because, you know, you got to make sure you're not a fluke." And he says, "Uh, do you have a speck?" And I Said, "Of course." And I leave the meeting and I call my rep and I say, "What's a spec?" I did not know what a spec script

was in the world of TV. >> What is a spec script for those who don't know? These aren't as common nowadays, but um a spec script is your original idea for an existing series. In the business, it used to be really crucial cuz people wanted to know you could write for somebody else's show. I Didn't know what it was and I hadn't written one. So, they told me what it was and I wrote a spec script in a week. I sent that to the guy and he put me up for a show called Burn Notice

and that's how I got staffed. >> Can you walk me through your time in Burn Notice and how you even climbed up because you just started off with a nineweek deal, right? >> Yeah. I told my agent, I have four kids. I'm going to be there the whole time and I am getting the script. And I didn't know what that would entail. I just showed up. And it turns out that the way to do that was to make myself indispensable to the showrunner. That started off with I'm in the writer room and the showrunners comes

from a call with the network and he says the network wants the overview of the season and he says I'm going to need somebody to write it. And then normally now that I'm a showrunner, I know normally you would Give that to your number two or another higher level writer with experience and nobody said anything. I'm sitting there and I don't know what made me do it, but I just put my hand up and I said, "Hey, what if I take a run at it?" He said, "Okay." And I did that and that saved him

time and I saw that relief and I said, "I'm stepping into every gap." And anytime you see somebody hesitate, that's a gap. Step into it. So now I'm I'm I'm signing up to write any way, Shape, or form all day, every day. If I hear somebody say, "Hey, I'll draft that." Sometimes I'm not even waiting for him to ask. He'll say, "Oh, I got to talk to so and so." I will draft an email, send it to him, and then he can just cut and paste. And by the way, I wasn't supposed to stay on.

They extended me for the whole season. But I was just doing it all. And then one day walks in my office and he says, "Hey, how would you feel about writing an Episode with me?" And he says, uh, one of the EPs who had been using me to write scenes for half the season, not not get any credit for anything. And I remember being mad at this EP like, I can't believe I'm doing all this for him. They're talking about they love the scene and he won't even say that was bad. Then when I got

the script, he said, this producer had said, I deserve a script. So I got it. Now I'm a staff writer and I just start coming up Through the ranks. By the end of seven seasons, I'm an executive producer and I want to have control over my own destiny when [clears throat] I leave burn notice. So, I know that means I have to have my own projects and I start developing a little bit during that run. >> How did you manage to balance the day job while writing other scripts? >> I would come into burn notice

early. I might write on my stuff from 6:30 to 8:30 and then it's burn notice from 9 to 6. And then I went in talked to my agents and I said I got three ideas. Two of them they liked. I sold both pitches and the third one, that one's crazy. Like, that'll never sell. And I said, "Okay, I'll write that one." And so, I wrote the script for Hannah God. Next thing you know, I have these all-star list of directors who are interested, all-star list of actors who are interested to go around town saying, "Hey,

we want to make this show." >> So, that being said, we obviously have a very important component to the story, which is Cross, >> which is currently number one show on Amazon Prime. And I am curious, how did Alex come into your life? >> In this case, I had written a pilot uh for an executive a few years earlier and he loved the pilot and loved working with me. They didn't do anything with that show. 3 four years later, he's reaching out saying, "Hey, how would you Feel about adapting Alex Cross?" And my first answer

was like, I no, I'm only working on my own stuff or I'll work on something that's green lit. And so I felt that was the end of the conversation. And then about a month later, he calls back. The next thing you know, I find myself in a meeting at Amazon with their biggest executives and they're saying, "Hey, we want you to do it and we are going to make it." And so, uh, I signed on and I had a meeting with Everyone. I told them what I thought this show needed to be. Jim Patterson's there,

Paramount's there, Sky Dance is there before this was before any type of merger. Amazon's there. and just say, "Listen, this is a huge IP thing, worldwide bestseller. I have a specific way I want to do it. I want you to buy into that. If I'm the one doing it, I need you to buy into that." C Jim Patterson love it. >> So, they signed off and then I started Down the road of writing a pilot for them. And then they say, "Okay, well, can we get a sense of what the season would be?" And I

put together an overview, characters, storylines, music, themes, everything. And so for those who are interested, we're going to be attaching Thank you so much a series overview. >> Yep. And it's actually very similar to a pitch document. >> No, thank you so much for that. >> So then shared that with everyone. They they fell in love with it. I don't tell a lot of people this story, but the truth is they actually passed on it. Some politics started coming into play. After they had promised me they were going to make this show, and after they

had fallen in love with the pilot and the overview, they said, "We're not making it." And I won't bother you with everything that happened in between them passing on it and then changing their Minds, but just know there was a moment where Alex Cross the series got passed on even though everyone loved it. >> As we close, it was recently announced that you guys have already shot I believe, but you would be creating a series called The Greatest, which is uh based on the life of Muhammad Ali >> and I know that he is a

personal hero of yours. >> Yeah. >> What did that mean for you? >> Terrifying. In fact, I stayed away from it the first few times was put in front of me. And it's funny because I tell everyone, do the thing that scares you. You don't want to pull back. You actually want to go in there because that is the truth. And the reason I was scared is because you're going to potentially write a story about millions of people's heroes. So, that's an intense responsibility. And I was afraid of it. But then I Figured that's the

reason I got to do it. And it turned into one of the most, if not the most rewarding experiences of my career. >> Wow. >> And it just kept unfolding in the most beautiful way. And I cannot wait for people to watch this show. Uh it is amazing um what we were able to accomplish. >> I I have goosebumps hearing you talk about it because it really is um just The light in your eyes is it really just seems like a dream come true. And as someone who is on the other end of having accomplished

a very beautiful dream, is there anything you would like to tell someone who is going through it right now? And what would your closing remarks be to them? >> Persistence pays off no matter what. Focus on the goal, not the path. Because if you let yourself be sidetracked by things you think are the missteps, then You'll lose sight of the fact that everything is a step in the right direction. I don't want folks to think that they're wrong. Like it really is tough right now and it might be tougher than it's ever been, but I

would remind them there has never been a time where someone said, "Oh, hey, that's the easy way." It's always been the hard way. >> And it might be particularly hard right now, but you already signed up for hard. I admire that. I applaud that. I think It's courageous. And if you can just remind yourself of why you signed up for that, it may help you stay the course. Ben, thank you so much. Um, I kept telling the team that I was not going to get emotion on this one, but I think I might. So, I'm

so sorry. Um, thank you so much. And I mean that in many different ways because we're here talking about the anatomy of a dream and you, for those who don't know, um, sorry, >> uh, you were my Yes. The reason I was calling is to see what your availability is like in July. >> My availability is completely open. >> Oh, great. We'd love to offer you an episode of season 2 across. >> No way. >> Yeah, totally. >> We got it. >> We're going. and um hearing your story about how it all came together and

the yeses that you Got along the way. You were one of those people that has continued to pay it forward and it's very inspirational. So, I just want to say that you accomplishing your dream, I really just want you to know that it's allowed other people, so many people, and I saw [music] it on set. I saw it on set how many people's lives were changed because you accomplished your dream and so for that I'm truly truly so humbled for this Experience and I just thank you so much [music] and I know the people that

have listened to this story are better for it. >> Thank you. I I know you know I've said this [music] to you. It has been an honor to be part of your journey. I know that we cross paths for very specific reasons and >> [music] >> um it's so important to me to be working with like-minded people and you [music] Just said something that I hadn't really thought about before, but being able to change people's lives [music] as a byproduct of chasing your own dream is huge. That [music] is what a force multiplier is. And

I consider you a force multiplier. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. All right, guys. You know the drill. We're going to be diving into the anatomy of Ben's dream. We're going to be going over the principles that came Up in his journey. And because there are so many, we're going to be putting up a list of all of them. And we're just going to be touching on the few that we find most important. All right, let's dive in. The first principle was understand your audience. And this means going beyond knowing who your customer is

to understanding why they do what they do, their psychology. What are they chasing? What are they afraid of? and what are they trying to become. Ben is One of the best examples that we have seen on this show because he doesn't just make content and hope that it lands. He is really obsessing over who he is making it for. And I think the best way to get there is to study them the way a filmmaker studies a character. Now, before a screenwriter writes a single scene, before they figure out the plot or the structure or

any of that, they have to know their character inside and out. They need to figure out what is Their want, what is their need, who is their nemesis, and what is standing in their way. Now, many times I will write pages and pages of backstory of this character's childhood, their upbringing, their relationships that shape them. The deeper that you actually take to understand a person, the clearer it becomes what they actually need from you in that moment so that you can make sure that you are catering your message to that. And honestly, one of the

best Tools that I have found for doing that came from film school. And that is the Save the Cat beat sheet. You can see in this book, I'm not even kidding. This is like holy grail in film school. I'm going to pop it up on the screen. Basically, what this maps out is an emotional journey of a character. Your customer is on this exact journey right now. They are the hero in their own story. And so, the question you need to ask yourself is, where are they when They find you? Are you a GoDaddy? where

your customer is at the very beginning, right after their lock in, and they've decided to go all in on their dream and get a domain name. Or are you creating content for the entrepreneur who is on the cusp of giving up, who is in their dark of the soul right now, who just needs a video to remind them that it's not over? Because if you know where your customer is in their story, you know exactly what to say to them. Now, if You're thinking, "What if my product and content serves people at every stage?" Well,

even if your product technically serves everyone, your marketing should speak to one person at one moment in their journey because that's who's actually buying. What we have found most effective is to make different ads with different messaging speaking to those people individually as opposed to trying to speak to all of them at once. So ask yourself this. Number one, what is your Customers want, need, nemesis, and dream? Write it out like you would a character in a story. Number two, where's your customer in their story when they find you? And number three is what you're

putting out there speaking directly to that moment. Oh, and by the way, down below in the description, we've included a downloadable worksheet where you can go through all these questions yourself and hopefully start putting these principles into action. All right, moving on to our next principle, which is the art of attention. This principle is mastering the psychology of what makes people stop scrolling, what makes them pay attention, and want to know more. Mastering attention means understanding how to deliberately make people stop and look. Now, Ben said this perfectly. Humans are designed to predict patterns. We

are flowing through our algorithm seeing the same things over and over. And the easiest way to make someone stop is to just simply break the pattern. And it makes sense why Ben calls attention the very first pillar of how to tell a great story. because if you can't get someone to stop, nothing matters. And I want to dive into what he taught us and talk about exactly how we can use it to improve the performance of our content. All right. The first way to hook someone in is surprise. Now, when we think of surprise, we

usually picture something Like a Mr. Beast video with like some insane visual. But that's not the only way to surprise someone in a hook. Now, one of the easiest ways to create surprise is with a contrarian truth, which is essentially saying the opposite of what people expect to hear. The thing that makes someone go, "Wait, what?" Because it goes against what they assumed was true. I cannot take credit for this. I think the first time that I heard this was like in a Callaway video. And I want to go over an example that we saw

on our own channel. Roll the tape. >> When you think viral, you think a million or 2 million or 3 million. For us, it was 60K. And that 7x our revenue. Now, the reason I think it overall worked is because Natalie said, "When you think viral, you think this, but it was this that 7x my revenue." 60,000 views to 7x her revenue. Like, that's crazy. That feels attainable. And it goes against the notion that you need to Have all of these millions of views in order to change your entire business. So, it was a contrarian

truth that overall worked. Of course, surprise doesn't just come from what you say. can also come from what people see. It could come through some sort of visual hook or auditory hook. Now, every example that we have on the screen has one thing in common. It breaks the pattern. And the more it interrupts what people expected to see, the more likely they are to stop Scrolling. Now, number two of how to hook someone in that Ben spoke about was emotion. So, how do you do that in just a few seconds? I want to show you

one of the first shorts that went viral for us. If you're checked into a teaching hospital on the dates of a national cardiology convention when like the most esteemed specialists are away, you're actually less likely to die. And the researchers concluded that's because these specialists had gotten so used to Doing [music] certain procedures over and over and over and over that they would keep doing them even if they weren't the right solution to the problem or if new data showed they didn't work or were harmful. So this is what psychologists call the Eintolong [music] effect

where you've solved a problem a certain way so many times that you'll keep solving problems that way even if the problem has changed or your tool is Shown not to work. >> For the longest time we couldn't figure out why this video took off. And when the video popped off the first thing our team members said was, "Yeah, people are fighting in the comments." Some people were saying it wasn't true. Others were saying it absolutely was. And there were hundreds of people debating each other. It struck a nerve. It made people feel frustrated and it

made people want to jump into the conversation. And that's What Ben is talking about. Tell me this is not all over the algorithm. How many times are you scrolling and do you come across something that makes you laugh or you see a podcast clip talking about potential war and then you feel fear? If a clip can make someone feel something in those first few seconds, you are in. They have your attention. So ask yourself this. If this video takes off, what are people going to write in the comments? If you can already imagine People saying,

"This is so true. I completely disagree. This made me cry." Chances are you are on the right track. Now, there is one more way Ben spoke about on how to get attention, and that was to call them by their name. This one honestly blew my mind a little because I realized I had been seeing this for years. I had just never put a name to it. No pun intended. Now, the most obvious examples are things like, "Have you ever do you ever feel like if you've Been struggling with videos, you know what I'm talking about?

Those hooks are literally calling someone out. But while adding the U helps for sure, it's what follows it that is most important. So let's say the sentence is if you've been struggling with getting your views past 200 views, this is the one small tweak that you can make. Now, if you had that experience, you immediately feel like they're talking directly to you. It's not actually about saying their name. It's about describing someone's thoughts or fears or frustrations, their dreams or experiences so accurately that they immediately recognize themselves in what you're saying or you're showing. Now,

if you're doing educational content of any sort for your personal brand or business, my advice is to get to the value as soon as possible, right after you call them by their name, while still leaving room for open loops, which we will talk about in a second. See what I Did there? When we actually look at the most successful content online, we realize that the best performing hooks almost always did all of the three things that Ben mentioned. They surprised people. They made people feel something. And by the end of the hook, people knew that

they were talking to them and solving a problem that they had. Now, obviously, these are just a few ways. There are, of course, so many other ways to capture Attention for hooks other than this, but these are very, very effective. But before you go and start applying all of this, none of these really matter without something else that Ben spoke about, and it was the fourth pillar in what makes a good story, and that is to leave them wanting more. That doesn't just apply to cliffhers or like what you put at the end of a

story. It also applies to our hooks. And that's probably what you've heard referred to As a curiosity gap, which is basically the space between what someone knows and what they desperately want to know. You need to create just enough unanswered questions that their brain wants to close the loop. Because as human beings, we hate open loops. It can be as dumb as how is this person going to react to that prank? Or if it's educational content, how is she going to tell me to solve the problem that I have? So the stronger the gap that

you can create With your surprise hook, your emotional hook, or the call them by your name hook, the more likely you don't just get their attention, but you get them to watch till the end. So, think about your next piece of content and ask yourself, what is one way that I could start my next video where my hook surprises them, makes them feel something, or calls them by their name? Number two, what kind of hook is most likely to attract the right audience? Number three, does my hook Create a question my audience needs answered? And

I know that we spoke a lot about short form content, but this really does apply to long- form content, to your pitch, to literally any type of story that you are telling. All these same principles apply. All right, moving on to our next principle to become a master storyteller. This one's exactly what it sounds like. It's the skill of turning what you do into a story that people remember and believe and act on. Now, I think it's safe to say that Ben's dream would not have been possible without this one principle. And here's the thing.

When I look back at every single guest that we have had on this show, the through line isn't just that they were these like talented and very smart entrepreneurs, which they were. They were also excellent at telling their story. So, I want to spend some real time on this one because Ben made so many points in this interview that I Think deserve to go deeper. More importantly, I want to actually help us apply this to our brand and our content and our pitches so that we actually see results. But before I do any of that,

I want to point to the questions that Ben said we need to answer before diving into any story. And that was, what are you trying to say? Why are you saying this? Who is this for? And what are you promising the audience? This is going to give us the clarity that we actually Need to tell any story. Once we've answered those questions, I actually want to break down Ben's storytelling principles into the three different areas that we would use them. And that is for your brand, for your pitch, and for your content. Let's start with

brand. And we all know that brand is about associations. But really, the question is, what stories does your audience associate you with? Ben brought up Taylor Swift. And think about it, Taylor Swift is built on stories. We don't just associate her with music. We associate her with love stories, with relationships, friendship bracelets that she's sung about. Think about Alex Warren. He was a Tik Tok musician that literally blew up and he got nominated for a Grammy. He tells stories about grief and losing his parents. I mean, his entire tour is called Little Orphan Alex. The

association isn't the song or his music. It's the story underneath the Music. And as a result, he's brought a community together of people who not only like his songs, but they resonate with what he sings about. Community isn't built around just liking the beat of a song. The strongest artists and brands are built around the story. And I know that this might be oversimplifying it, but your audience isn't showing up for a product. They're showing up for a world they want to be a part of. And that is exactly why everyone in the Marketing space

right now will not stop talking about worldbuing. I know it sounds like this like big abstract buzzword. But honestly, the simplest way I found to understand this is to treat your brand like it's a film or a TV show. And if you want an example of how to do that, literally like look at Ben's pitch. It will show you how in the movie and TV world it's done. It has recurring characters that you grow attached to. Like Mr. Beast has friends in the rest Of his crew that you see in his videos. They're not just

random people in videos anymore. They're characters in a world that you've come to know and love. It has recurring sets. Think about Diary with CEO. The lighting and the signature interview setup. You know exactly where you are within seconds. I mean, think about friends. If I were to just show you the picture frame against a purple backdrop, you immediately know that it is friends. My god. Wait. Jesus Christ. >> Why would you do that? Why would you do that? And when we translate that to business, think about companies like Apple or IKEA. Literally, IKEA is

its own world. And every single piece of content and marketing that they put out there is in alignment with that world. Now, if you want to learn more about this, Caleb Rston, who's literally grown Gary Ve's brand and the Hermosis brand, He actually has a great video about this. I recommend checking it out. So, ask yourself, what stories do people associate to you? You're the person who speaks about who are the recurring characters in your content. And number three, what are the recurring locations, visuals, or formats people subconsciously recognize? All right, moving on to how

to master telling stories for your pitches. Now, for speaking or pitching, if you are up There telling a story out loud, what Ben said about knowing what to leave out is essential. And most times that you're going to pitch, you're most likely going to do an elevator pitch, and you only have a couple minutes to get your point across. If we can't get our story down to one clean sentence, it's usually a sign that we don't know the one thing that we want people to remember. I think something that we should all nail down before

we speak to people is have our Elevator pitch ready, but really come at it from a story lens so that you can elicit that emotion. One of the best tools for that, something that we do for films is create a log line. A log line in a film is one sentence. Who's the main character? What do they want? What's standing in their way? And for your business, the main character is obviously your customer. It's about them, what they want, what they're up against, and you are the thing that Helps them get there. And what the

best log lines land almost always comes down to the problem, the stakes, because the pain point is the fastest way to spark that emotion. So ask yourself, what's the log line of your brand? If you only had 30 seconds to tell your brand story, what would you leave in? And could someone else tell your story after hearing it just once? Now, if you really want to dive into what makes a good log line, I would highly recommend going Online and looking up all of your favorite films and what their log lines were. Save the Cat

literally goes into how to create a really good log line for a film, but all the same principles apply to business. Moving on to how to master storytelling for your content. Ben laid out four pillars of what actually makes a good story. Now, we already spoke about attention, also known as the hook, and we spoke about leaving them wanting more. So, let's Dive into the one I think that most of us struggle with, which is make them feel something. Now, earlier we talked about emotion as a way to capture attention, but this is different. This

is about keeping people emotionally invested from the beginning to the end. And so, how do we actually do that? Well, the first way that Ben said was circumstance, which to me is another way of saying stakes or a problem. And here's why problems are essential. There Is no story without problems, just like there are no businesses without problems. There would be no Uber Eats if people always had the time and the energy to cook dinner. There would be no Amazon if shopping in stores was the easiest and the quickest option. There would be no Zoom

if it was easy to meet with your team in person. The problem is the engine. And the bigger the problem, the higher the stakes and the more we feel. So whether we're making a vlog or A short form video, we need to make the stakes incredibly clear. And ideally, we do it immediately after our hook. And for what I have found, generally we can do that with a simple use of the word but. And here's what I mean. Roll the tape. >> WE DID IT. WE'RE FINALLY in Costco. [screaming] >> But now we're going to

need your help to stay here. >> So we're visually hooked in by it by a Bit of a surprise hook. I mean, they're literally standing in the snow screaming, "We did it in front of a Costco." And then she immediately follows it with, "But we're now going to need your help to stay there." That is immediate stakes. And notice what it does to us. It makes us lean in. It makes us want to know why. The rest of the video is her explaining how they got there, the journey, and it ends up on a call

to action to support the brand. Now, that video has 2 million views. And I really think it's mainly because the stakes were delivered and the circumstance was introduced. But Ben said story is the dance between circumstance and content, which is the next way to make someone feel something. What does he mean by content? The way I interpreted it was that it's the journey. What happens in the midst of that circumstance and most relevant to us, how do you go about resolving the Main tension in that circumstance? Now, let's say you introduce one big butt at

the beginning of your hook. I wanted to start a business, but I had no money. That's the central tension. That's the question your audience is waiting to see answered. But then throughout the story, you introduce smaller butts that serve the main goal. This is actually something I learned in film school that literally every professor talked about. It comes from the creators of South Park, Trey and Matt. They said that great stories aren't just connected by and then, they're connected by but and therefore. So instead of I want to start a business and then I met

an investor and then I flew there and then I pitched my idea, it becomes I want to start a business, but I had no money. Therefore, a friend offered to introduce me to an investor, but they wanted to meet in person. Therefore, I maxed out my credit cards to fly there, but I missed my Flight. Therefore, I rented a car, but I was late. Therefore, I only had 60 seconds to try and pitch my idea. Every butt raises the stakes. Every obstacle makes you wonder, are they going to pull this off? And I know it's

a terrible story, but I'm just giving you an idea of what we mean here. Every obstacle should answer one question. Does this character get closer to their goal or farther away? If the answer is neither, it probably doesn't belong in the story. Now, the last way to make your audience feel something in your story is through developing a great character. And obviously, since you're most likely telling your own story, in your content, you are the character, which means you need to start thinking about yourself the same way that a screenwriter thinks about a protagonist. So,

what makes a good character? Well, there are many things, but here are just a few. They want something. Literally, every Compelling character is pursuing a goal, and that's what gives the audience something to root for. And as a founder, that might be building a company or solving a problem, changing an industry, chasing a dream. Whatever it is, your audience should know what you're trying to accomplish. Number two, they have flaws that people can relate to. They have fears. They have doubts. They have blind spots. Most importantly, they have internal conflicts and they have External obstacles.

Your audience should be able to look at your story and think, "I've felt that or I feel that." Those imperfections aren't something to hide because the goal really isn't to look perfect. is to be human enough that someone sees a little bit of themselves in their journey. And lastly, another thing that makes a good character is they change because of their journey. The best characters, they don't finish the story as the same person that they Were in the beginning. They learned something or they overcame something. Maybe it's they became a better leader or a founder

or a person along the way. And guess what? If you share that, especially in your content, you teach people something, which remember is Ben's fourth pillar of a good story. So, in summary, to improve your content, you need circumstance, aka the stakes, content, aka the journey, and characters, aka you. So, ask yourself This. What's the main tension or stakes in your story? Two, does every moment you include move that tension forward? And number three, what part of you do people relate to most? Now, I know that was a lot, but these are the kinds of

exercises master storytellers are constantly doing. Ben's journey is filled with examples of just how important this skill was, not just in his writing, but literally throughout his career. But none of that would have Happened if it weren't for our next principle, which is to start before you're ready, which means to move forward before the timing feels right, the money is there, or the plan is clear. Because momentum is what creates clarity, not the other way around. And in Ben's story, we saw this principle in action from the very beginning when he got the so-called general

meeting. Not only did he max out those two cards, but he went. He didn't wait for the perfect Time or until the money was there. Although I would not recommend going into debt at all, but the point is he went. And even though it was a general meeting, him flying there is what led that casting director to giving him an audition, which guess what? He wasn't ready for. And it didn't stop there. When that executive asked Ben if he had that spec script, Ben's answer was yes. Even though he didn't even know what a spec

script was, and he wrote one in a Week. He was pursuing acting while raising a family and working a job. He never once waited for the moment to feel right. And I just want us to really acknowledge that because so many of the most successful people we've studied on this show, they weren't starting in the best of circumstances. They literally were starting in some of the hardest. Now, let's be real. How many of us are hiding behind the excuse of saying we need to do more research, we need more Time to learn, or that it's

just not the right time right now? I literally do it all the time. I literally put off reaching out to Ben for almost a full year because I felt I wasn't ready. Then I noticed this exact principle in Grace Andrew's story and it made me realize I was the only thing standing in my own way. And so I finally sent the message and here we are. Now, I'm not saying to be reckless in everything that you do, but the pattern we keep seeing is that Successful people say yes and then they figure it out later.

Does that sometimes bite them in the ass? Yes. But so does waiting. So, if you're sitting on something right now where you're waiting for the perfect moment or you're waiting to feel ready, the moment is not coming. And the longer that we wait, the further away it gets. So, do one thing this week to move it forward. And for me, I'm going to declare it here. I have been putting off another email for a dream Guest of mine and once and for all I am going to get it done this week. So, let's do it

together. All right, moving on to our next principle which is proximity. This is the intentional act of placing yourself in environments and around people who elevate your thinking. They accelerate your pace and expand opportunity in what you believe is possible. We've talked about this principle on this show before and every single time that it comes up, it looks a Little different, but the core is the same. Your environment shapes your outcomes. And in Ben's case, he moved to LA. Now, obviously, moving to LA doesn't guarantee success. But for him or anyone in that field, it

does dramatically increase your chances of meeting the right people and finding the right opportunities. I mean, you grab coffee and the person in front of you is literally a producer. Your neighbor works at Netflix or you end up in a Dinner party where someone has a project that you would be perfect for. Nothing changes, but your surface area for opportunity definitely does. Well, yes, if you're in a position where moving is even slightly an option for you, I think it can be one of the best investments that you'll make in your future. But for many

of us, that's simply not realistic. And that's why I asked Ben whether in today's world, moving to a city with more opportunity is even necessary. And While Ben's answer was no, he was quick to point out that we do have to make significant steps that declare our intentions. That could be flying to a conference or joining some sort of like mastermind club or simply getting in the right rooms even if it's virtual. Ultimately, it's creating proximity to the people and the opportunities that we are chasing. We spend so much time trying to change ourselves but

almost no time changing the environment that would Naturally force us to change. So ask yourself this, are your environments expanding what you believe is possible or are they keeping you comfortable? Number two, what is one thing that you could do this week to put yourself in proximity of more opportunity or the right people? Moving on to our next principle, which is to find your allies. Your allies are the people in your life who support you. They believe in you and stand by your side as you chase your Dream. And allies honestly, they come in so

many different forms. Sometimes there are family members, sometimes there are friends, sometimes there are colleagues, sometimes there are partners. What we see time and time again in the anatomy of every single dream that we study is this. The bigger the dream, the stronger the allies who are there to support it. I mean, going back to story, no hero ever does it alone. There's always a mentor or some sort of coach or Confidant or sidekick or best friend that helps the character when they lose their way or need support. And with Ben, it started with a

director who was also a mentor of his who spoke to a casting director in New York on Ben's behalf. That's it. That one conversation from someone who believed in him enough to make a call is what opened the door that changed everything. But the ally that we keep coming back to in Ben's story is Ben's wife, Candy. You know, they say That who you marry is the most important business decision that you'll ever make. Ben and Candy's story is one of my favorite examples that I've seen of that. She believed in him before anyone else

did. She went with him to LA for him to pursue his dream. When the second year in LA went quiet for him, when everything was literally pointing to it being time to pack up and go back home, it was his wife that encouraged Ben to make that short film that really took His career to that next level. And then when everything fell apart and the campaign fell through and the soap let him go and their house went into foreclosure, it was his wife that stepped up just to keep the family afloat while he found his

way back. And ultimately, she was the one who woke him up. And as you saw when Ben spoke about his dream, his wife was all over it. And I'll be honest, I would not be here without mine. The person literally sitting on the other side of that camera giggling. My husband Roy who has believed in this show in the moments that I didn't and who continues to show up every single day for this dream. When I got to direct that episode of Cross, he came with me to Toronto. I have taken chances that I would

have never taken in my life if it weren't for him and the allies that I have around me. But I know not everyone has a candy or a Roy in their corner. Trust me, I know what that's like. And if that's you, I want you to hear this. Recruit your allies the way that you recruit your team. These people, even if they don't directly work within your company or your dream, they will have as much influence as those who are. And while right now it might not feel that way, I want to remind you that

your allies are out there. But finding them starts with doing something most of us don't want to do, and that's cutting out The ones who aren't. The people who make you question your ambition. The people who make you feel selfish for betting on yourself. The people who confuse protecting you with honestly limiting you. An ally should give you strength. They do not make you shrink because the longer those people stay in your life, the harder it's going to get. And thanks to Candy, she had Ben take the risks he would have never taken by creating

that short film which was a huge turning Point in his career. Which brings us to our next principle, which is to create undeniable proof, which is turning results into something that's impossible to ignore. Now, when Kenny suggested Ben make that short film, it didn't just become something to remember LA by without even knowing it. The film became this form of undeniable proof. It won festivals and it's what ultimately got him cast on The Young and the Restless. On this channel, we talk a lot about how To attract investors or strategic partners or how to get

attention of like big people who can help greenlight and get you to the next stage of your dream. And what we've seen is that the most successful people, they do not wait for that person to greenlight them. They greenlight themselves first until they create enough proof so that they become impossible to ignore. For example, for Natalie Barbou, the CEO of RELA, that meant building an app before she got an Investor and getting 10,000 users first. For Rihanna, it meant doing a bunch of successful collaboration deals with various brands, showing the demand for her products before

she ultimately got a partnership with LVMH to make Fenty. I have personally seen firsthand how essential this principle is, especially when you're starting out. My thesis film at USC, Welcome Back, wasn't just a film I made to graduate. I made it very intentionally because I knew that I Wanted to direct TV shows that had a thriller and action component to them. So, every single scene and every decision and every shot that I made, I had that in mind. I remember thinking about an executive who might one day watch it and not wanting them to have

to imagine whether I could pull it off. I wanted them to see it. That's ultimately what led me to meeting Ben, who gave me my first shot at TV and my episode on cross. And that's really what undeniable Proof is. It's removing the imagination gap, the space between what someone has to picture and what they can actually see. And the smaller the gap, the harder it is to say no. Because here's the truth. Nobody wants to take a risk on something they have to imagine. They want to see it working before they put their money

and their time and their reputation behind it. And the only way to give them that certainty is to create the proof first. So don't wait for Someone to greenlight you. Be your first yes. Create the proof first because the opportunity follows the proof, not the other way around. So ask yourself this. Would your dream client or partner look at your work and feel completely certain that you could deliver? Number two, what numbers, results, or examples you already have that you're not using? Number three, what proof do you still need to build that would make the

right person say yes without hesitation? Which Brings us to our next principle and that is excellence as a value. Now, excellence as a value means that you do more than the standard. You care about the details that no one else will see. And it's not because you have to, it's because it matters to you. And in Ben's dream, we see this time and time again. You might remember him talking about how he got burn notice and he only had a 9-week deal. He knew that he needed to extend it because of his circumstance, Right? So,

he talked about making himself indispensable. He showed up to that writer's room and he looked for every opportunity to step up. So when the showrunner needed someone to like write that season overview and it was like a task that normally would go to another person on the team, Ben raised his hand. He did not wait to be asked. He was drafting emails literally before anyone asked him to do it. And he was writing scenes without getting credit For it. He just stepped in and went above and beyond what was expected. And doing that didn't just

lock in his job for the rest of the season. It launched his entire career as a writer in Hollywood. And throughout Ben's story, you can see that excellence wasn't just something that he demanded of himself. He knew that for it to really matter, everyone around him had to carry it, too. And I saw firsthand how that value was upheld on the set of Cross. And the Most successful people operate this way. Steve Jobs insisted that the circuit board inside the Macintosh be laid out beautifully even though nobody would see it because the standard doesn't change

based on who's watching. It's what happens behind the scenes. Upholding excellence as a value in whatever team that you are building, even if it's just yourself, is truly one of the most important essential ways to stand out in any business. And I think that's what Excellence really is. It's the standard you choose for yourself long before anyone asks for it. So ask yourself, what does this standard look like in your industry right now? Where could you raise the bar and go above and beyond? Number two, what are the non-negotiable values of excellence for you? The

things that if someone around you didn't care about them, they would not belong on your team. And number three, if someone experienced your brand today, what would People say you're committed to doing exceptionally well? Which brings us to our next principle, mindset. And I'm not gonna lie, this principle always feels beyond cheesy to me. But every time I look at our guests, I cannot find one, not one of them, where mindset didn't come first. It had to come first before they started, before they were ready, before they put themselves in proximity to opportunity. They had

to believe in some capacity that they were capable, That if they really gave it their all, they could influence the outcome through their actions. And in Ben's story, if you looked at his life as scenes, it's in every scene. From a really young age, he decided that his circumstances weren't going to write the rest of his story. He was. And that's the mindset that took him to New York, made him jump into that audition, moved him to LA, made him make that short film. His mindset literally led him to every Opportunity that he had. And

by the way, by mindset, I don't mean this perfect I have no doubts, confidence BS. Nobody has that. Nobody is immune to doubt. Ben himself had a whole year of a mindset where he himself said that he didn't think anything he did was going to get him out of the hole that they were in where he gave up until his wife snapped him out of it. And lately in this channel in the anatomy of my own dream, man, am I trying to do the same. And if You've seen our previous episodes, I shared that I've

been struggling with my own mindset lately because of, you know, how much it costs to make these episodes. The good news is since our last video, we signed with some sponsors, which is super exciting. But we recently had a meeting and for the first time, we had enough information to actually calculate what it would cost to scale this thing to fully build out the team so that Roy and I aren't pulling All these allnighters all the time. And so we crunched literally like every single role that we do and how much time that it takes.

And when we saw the real numbers, honestly, it kind of crushed me. And suddenly now I'm like, we're never going to get out of this hole. the whole that is all of this investment that we've made so far, my massive student debt, which is a whole other story. The fact that I still don't feel like I have The financial stability enough to start a family, or that even after building all of these successful businesses and directing a show on Amazon that we've made decisions that put us in a position where we literally can't afford to

stop. So, it all just feels like one giant hole. A hole that I can't possibly imagine getting myself out of. But then we were sitting and editing Ben's interview and I realized that I'm doing the same thing that he was doing. I'm Believing a story in my head and forgot that I'm the one holding the pen. [music] You know, Ben's life didn't change when he wrote his first spec script or when he became a writer on Burn Notice or when he wrote the pilot for his first show. It changed [music] when he fixed his mindset

and when he decided that he wasn't just a writer, he was the showrunner of his own damn story. He got to decide how his story went. And so do we. And so if you feel Right now that you are currently in a hole that you can't climb [music] out of, remember who is holding the pen. So write your story. Write the next scene. Write the project that leads to your next big yes. Write the comeback that nobody saw coming. And while we may not get to choose some of the characters that enter our story or

the plot [music] twists that we face or the obstacles that stand In our way, we do get to write how we overcome them. So go write the best story the world [music] has ever seen. Go write the anatomy of your dream. All right, guys. I will see you in the next one.