He Buried His Father at 15 and Was Told 'Don't Cry, You're the Man Now'

Just seeing my dad's dead body and now I'm chucking dirt into this hole in a graveyard. I remember getting the shovel and I'm the only one doing it and I'm shoveling this dirt in and I'm looking down in this grave and I'm just like what the [ __ ] I can still smell the dirt like the mud. I can still smell it. One of my uncles had said to me, "You can't be seen to cry. [music] You can't be seen to show emotion. You're the man In the house." Now, the [ __ ] does that

mean at 15? Don't cry [music] because if you cry, you're going to set your mom and your sisters off. So, I had that as I'm shoveling the dirt. >> Did you feel like crying? [music] >> Absolutely. Every fiber in me was like terrified. How else am I supposed to communicate if I can't even get this out? People always want the glamour. What does it look like? Oh my god, it's incredible. Incredible. But yo, the Leadup to [music] that, man, was work. Idris walks in and he says, "Um, me and Sabrina were talking and we would

just love you to do part of our wedding." People don't realize the dedication, focus, everything that goes into being something great, the sacrifices, [music] people don't see that. A lot of the stuff that stops men from being emotionally mature, and it's not even their stuff to begin with. It's stuff that's been thrust upon them by society, By the peers, by the culture, by tradition. You're a man. You're supposed to this, that, you can't be seen to have emotion. [music] You can't be seen to cry. You can't be seen to show that [ __ ] [

__ ] The quicker you get through that [music] is the quicker you get to the best parts of your life. Every man carries something. Expectations, silence, struggles, the weight of having to look unbreakable. The Dad Project is a home for real, Unfiltered [music] conversations on men's mental health, the kind that have been missing for far too long. We share powerful stories and raw [music] perspectives from those living it and those guiding men through it. Filmed at the Old Court in Windsor, it's about [music] breaking silence, reshaping strength, and creating conversations that actually matter. I'm your

host, Narup Juty. Let's talk. Before we start, let me take 30 seconds And speak to you directly. This podcast exists to share real stories, honest conversations that inspire growth, self-belief, and meaningful change. If you get value from these episodes, following or subscribing is the easiest way to support what we're building here. It helps this reach more people who appreciate authentic conversation and allows us to keep creating stories like this. All right, thank you for being here. Now, into the episode. So, King, What is the story people don't see when they hear that you're Idris Ela's

private chef? >> The story, that's an interesting question. The story people don't see is what led me to get to that >> stage where Idris Ela asked me to come on board and, you know, be chef. Um, and that story is entrenched with >> a lot. It comes with a lot. Um, it's an interesting story. And um you know, people always want the Glamour. What does it look like? Oh my god, it's incredible. Incredible. But yo, the leadup to that, man, it's work. It's work. That's that's what people don't see, the hard work. >> People

don't realize >> the dedication, the um focus, the everything everything that goes into being something great. The sacrifices that take. People don't see that. >> Did you ever think when you were a young man that you'd be cooking food for people that we see in movies? >> Absolutely not. You could never have told me even we can go back 10 years. >> You could never have told me that. >> Why? Yeah. Why would you not have believed? >> Because it's not Okay, I can I can say this. I didn't set out to be a chef.

All right. Um especially not a chef at this level. I didn't set out. Food was Something that for me just I love to do. It just was I like to eat. So I was like, well, you need to learn how to cook if you're going to eat. So I think for me, I think it just never dawned on me, oh, you can turn this into profession. So it kind of found me. Food was always there, you know, it's it's in our culture. It's traditions. It's what we do is I'm Nigerian. That's what we do. Um,

so for me, it just was a side hustle, you know, and then here we are. M >> here we are. >> You told me when you were younger, one of your earliest memories of of food and cooking was seeing your dad make >> Yeah. >> breakfast on a Sunday >> and you were just sat there looking at him thinking this is crazy >> in awe. Yeah. >> Why would that memory of >> like he was cooking a fry up like why Was it so powerful for you? >> I tell you why it was powerful because

my dad was a typical Nigerian man. He did not get in the kitchen. That kitchen was not a thing Nigerian men did, right? Nigerian men get waited on hand and foot. You know, the mom wife comes with the bowl of water and the lemon and they wash their hands with the cloth and it's a it's it's a ritual, right? So men don't go in the kitchen, right? So for me, and I'm one of five. Yeah, I'm one Of five. And I'm the only boy. I was a daddy's boy with my dad when I was a

shadow, you know. Um rest his soul. And um I wanted to do whatever he did. So every now and again he would just get up and I'm talking this is I probably saw this twice in my lifetime. It wasn't a regular thing like and the one time it it stood out was got in the kitchen and I remember he just did a big traditional like English breakfast not anything crazy but it just was he knew what he Was doing and he just got everything together and it was just fascinating to see him crack the eggs

into the pan and you know whisk them up and you know chop up the onions and and whatever and then the tomatoes and I remember he taught me how to fry an egg where you chuck the oil over the egg the egg yolk and to this day I still don't like that But [laughter] it just was an aesthetic I remember watching him doing and I see see the egg transformed, you know, has That layer over it once he chuck me all over it. >> For me, that just was fascinating. I just stood back in awe

and that is one of the earliest memories I have of wanting to cook. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> But that didn't lead you to like jump into culinary school, did it? Your life. >> No, it's it's just child was >> Yeah. >> challenging. It was um you know our family had a lot of ups and downs um growing up. You know we moved house god knows how many times. Yeah I probably I've lost count how many times in my early teen teenage years. Um so no cooking wasn't like I said earlier on cooking wasn't a

thing where I thought oh this is going to be a career. And look I'm Nigerian. In a Nigerian household academics comes first. There's no such thing as culinary arts or, you Know, art. What do you mean art? Art care. No, that's not a thing in our community. It's education, education, education. I was naturally gifted with intellect. I was an A student. Didn't really have to study if I'm honest with you. It came to me naturally. So, I could go in and, you know, go to school and I'd get A's. So, that was my trajectory. the

typical standard, you know, go to school, get good grades, pass your GCSEs, pass your A levels, go To university. That was the trajectory. So, the food wasn't uh the food things didn't come till probably I was like 28 or >> Yeah. It just wasn't even on my peripheral like that. >> You shared something really powerful with me um when we had our call which was about your father passing away. >> Yeah. and you shared it with me and you just kind of almost cited it like it's This year then this happened then I then I

did this >> but it sat with me for so long and I didn't dive deep into it because >> I was trying to understand your life story >> but talk to me about his funeral man because gosh I put myself in your position and I was >> thing to happen for a child >> yeah so I was 15 when my dad passed. Um, it's January, He passed January 11th, 1998, right? And then, you know, we buried him January 30th, 1998. I'd never been to a funeral before. I'd never seen a dead body before. I had

no idea what to expect. I I remember the morning of the funeral. This This is so poignant in my my mind's eye. I remember my room was at the front. this house we were in, we'd moved there. So, let me just back up a little bit. >> Yeah. >> So, my dad uh was ill. He had a brain hemorrhage >> and two years before he died and then he eventually died of complications, bronchy, pneumonia. >> So, those two years he suffered. He was in and out of hospital. Um it got to a point where my

mom couldn't care for him. Obviously, there was all of us as well became too much for her. So he had to go into uh assisted uh living care, whatever you want to call it. So those Two years were very difficult and our family then moved. Um we had to move home again. Um what was supposed to happen is he was supposed to come home to this house. We had a house that was um designed for his disability. So it had a stairlift and all that sort of stuff and railings everywhere. He didn't make it. He

didn't make it to the house. The last time I saw my dad um was just before Christmas in 1997. Um That that day. So I want to go back to the house we were in. So I remember that house, particular house, my bedroom was on the at the front of the house. So I had the front window and I remember everyone was scrambling around the house and everyone was getting ready and and I remember putting on this this horrible seat. It was from like River Island. horrible, horrible suit, polyester, and I had these like fake

black Patrick Cox as well. I Thought I was the [ __ ] but yeah. Anyway, um I had this blue tie and this blue shirt. I remember putting on suit and looking out the window and seeing the hearse and we lived on a um culdeac. Remember seeing the hearse come around and my heart just sunk. But at the same time, there was a ray of light that came through the window. And I remember standing there and I was like, I don't know how I'm supposed to feel. I was like, what what am I supposed to

do? Like, what's this feeling? So, I thought, all right, just get on with it. Just carry on. Um, I remember get getting to the church and the uh porbearers saying to me, uh, you've got to walk ahead of the coffin. I'm 15. What the [ __ ] do you mean I got to walk? What what do what do you mean? Like it's overwhelming. And I've got mom, there's um all my sisters and the church is packed. It's heaving, right? My dad knew a lot of people. And um so I remember walking walking in front of

the um the coffin and just being terrified. I remember being shaking just terrified. So when the service commences and then you know at the end of the service they view the body and I remember [ __ ] myself. I remember shaking because I hadn't seen my dad since I saw him alive, which was now what, maybe a month or so. So, I remember coming up to the coffin and I remember seeing his shoes first and as I came up, it was in slow motion. I remember walking up and we buried him in this beautiful um

light gray suit and my mom asked me to pick it out cuz I don't want to bury him in black. I was like black is so morbid like this just like he wants that we put him in this light gray suit and my dad used to wear glasses as well and we put his glasses in his top pocket. My dad Was very smart like he that's how he dressed in life. He was always Mr. Nek was very smart and poised, shoes, iron, shirts, everything. Right. So, we put his glasses in his top pocket and a

pen as well. And I remember coming up and then seeing the detail. I remember seeing his shoes first, then seeing the handkerchief in the pocket. And then I came up and I looked in and I did not like what I saw. I had never seen a dead body before. First of all, it didn't even look like him. I was like, "Fuck is this?" Like, "What? what is and he, you know, they shrink. >> And it just wasn't him. But something in me was just like, "All right, he's there somewhere. You're not going to see him

again, so you're going to have to touch him." I remember picking up his hand and it was like lead. It just went I remember the th it just was like lead and I just was like, "Oh, wow. This is this is this is weird." Um, so then we get past that and I remember them The pool bearer is securing the casket lid and they use this um power screwdriver and you hear and I was shuddering cuz I was like that's final like that's it. So when we get to the um cemetery and I think this

is the part where to to me to this day is still heavy. um as the only son um we we bury our own Right around our community you know West African Nigerian community we bury our own so all the men have to shovel the dirt into the um to the grave and I remember given being given the shovel by someone I don't know who it was and was just told to shovel the dirt in this grave and I remember it was a huge amount of dirt and I remember getting the shovel and I'm the only

one doing it and I'm shoveling this dirt in and I'm looking Down in this grave and I'm just like what the [ __ ] this is crazy and I remember in that part saying to myself don't break don't break because one of my uncles had said to me you know prior to the funeral you can't be seen to cry you can't be seen to show emotion you're the man in the house now the [ __ ] does that mean at Dean, what do you mean the man in the house? Like, what do you mean? Don't

cry because if you cry, you're going to set your mom and your Sisters off so you can't be seen to cry. So, I had that as I'm shoveling the dirt. >> Did you feel like crying? >> Absolutely. Every fiber in me was like terrified. I was I was more terrified than anything, right? Just seeing my dad's dead body and now I'm chucking dirt into this hole in a graveyard. Like, what do you mean? like it's all confusing and it's it's scary. Um >> it didn't feel real. >> It felt surreal. Honestly, it didn't feel real.

It felt like I can still smell the dirt, like the mud. I can still smell it. Um yeah, honestly, it's it was real obviously, but at the time you're doing it, I'm 15. I don't know anything. You don't know anything. What I know now, I look back and think, God, I was a baby. I was a little boy, >> scared little boy. and didn't have no guidance. There was no one to tell you What to expect. No one to tell you how to conduct yourself per se or what emotions were. No one to guide me

through what that feels like or oh this is what it's going to look like when you look into the coffin or this is what it's going to look like when you're at the grave site. I'd never been to a funeral before. So all of that mixed into, you know, the emotion of being a teenager, right? going through puberty, Just the average everyday crap you're going through. You throw all that into the mix and you're like, "What the [ __ ] is going on here?" >> Is it still normal in Nigerian culture for men to not

show any emotion at funerals? Is that is that still the same? >> I think in any culture, it's men don't get the okay to be emotionally available, to show emotion. I think okay it's somewhat Shifting now but I still think men are not supposed to show emotion this is what I see in society men are not they're the providers they are the caretakers um physical and otherwise you're supposed to be there for every other facet but to be emotionally available for yourself which I think is wrong and I think that's across cultures >> do you

think you can cry and still provide >> absolutely I think being in tune with your emotions is healthy. >> It's understanding what these emotions are and not shying away from them. It's actually delving into them so you can go through it and see what does this feel like? What does this mean when that happens? >> Oh, I can navigate by doing that and then I can get over it. Okay. You don't know that until you go through it. Do you understand? >> So that smell of mud. >> Yeah. You can still I mean burying your

father is hard in in our culture week from >> okay >> and so when I lost my grandfather I was 30 I had all four my grandparents alive till I was 30 so I'm very blessed and then when he died again first dead body I'd really seen or someone super close >> same thing man hand felt heavy couldn't recognize him >> and then >> it's not a good put him into the furnace is and then when it caught my >> you saw that >> it's just I it took me a good six seven months >>

just to understand what does it mean when someone who you've like a grandfather your second dad right >> right >> he so he's not here right so what does That mean now >> what does it mean >> what does it >> what does emptiness >> for you to then be thrust into this position of being a man of the house what the what does it mean to be a man of the house right >> I know that was quite formative for you because you didn't quite know how to process it and certain parts of your

life Especially academics did suffer right >> I think what was interesting is um being told you're the man of the house now >> right at 15 your dad's just died you're the man of the house now it's your mom there's your three sisters in the household and I have an older sister from my dad's side which we at the time we weren't in communication with um being told all of that and then told not to cry, not to show emotion, not to not not to do all that. It's Heavy. >> That is like what do

you mean? Like h how else am I supposed to feel in this? How else am I supposed to communicate if I can't even get this out? Do you do you understand? It's it's it's ludicrous to even think about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But um what was it that you would say then caused you to in your own words start Like drifting through life? >> So I think not being able to communicate or even talk about how I felt afterwards >> and and I I'll give you a story as well. There was um a really

good family friend of ours um God rest our name Dolores. She she died last year. Um she was a great influence in my life. I want to say that like um in fact she's she's she's responsible for some of the phrases that I say to This day. Uh I'll get on to that in a minute. But um I remember she was driving past me one day and she said she saw me with my head down. I might have been going to school or whatever. She said that she saw me. I was walking. I had my

head down and she said she didn't stop. She just watched me and she was like, "Yeah, he's going going through it." When I look back and hearing that in hindsight, I'm like, no one intervened. No one asked me, "Am I all right? Uh, how do I feel? Um, what do you feel?" There was no afterare. There was nothing. It's just get on with it. And I think that was really detrimental in terms of mourning uh starting the mourning process um grieving and just general welfare right of a young a young a young black guy a

young black a young black boy. Yes I was academic. Yes I was of a certain in intellect. And I think That was taken for granted by my family. Um I've always been more mature uh at that stage. I'd always been more mature than um I looked. So I kind of automatically was given that role just get on with it. Do you know what I mean? I was king. He's all right. He's all right. He can handle it. So yes, I could handle it. But the other areas start to you know >> uh be affected. So

I I did my GCSEs and I remember one of the teachers was um Head of the math department her name was Miss Brady and she said to me she pulled me to one sign after class she said king now we are aware of what's happened in your family would you like us to take this into consideration for your GCSEs? I said absolutely not. There was no way I'm gonna let you use that as an excuse because number one, my dad wouldn't allow me to. And even when I look back now and saying that to myself,

that at saying that at that age, 14, 15, 15, the strength to say that with conviction and not really even understanding why I'm saying it because it's it built in you to just get on with things and maybe it's cultural, maybe it's, you know, traditional, I don't know. It's just built in you. Just get on with it. Don't use these things as an excuse. Blah blah blah blah blah. When I look back now, I'm like, [ __ ] how did I even How did I even take How did I even formalize that? How did I

even take that On board to verbalize that? >> What do you think it was? >> Um, I think it probably was my defense. What part part of it is my defense mechanism? Um, yes, I know what's going on. I don't really understand it, so I don't really want to talk about it. Does that make sense? It's just like, yep, cool. Skip over it next. Right. >> And I think that coupled with you're the man in the house. All of that Stuff. It's compound. All of that compounds. So, you don't know what to do with that.

You're just like, "All right, let me not deal with it because I'm not dealing with all this other [ __ ] So, I can't deal with that. So, just skip over it." So I did my GCSEs and I remember the the day I got my results came in the post and I got two A's, three B's and four C's. I was devastated. I I remember opening the letter. My mom was standing there and it was a beautiful sunny Morning and the letter came and I was anticipating it and I was excited and I opened it.

My mom was standing next to me and I told her the results and she was like, "God, your dad would be really proud." In my head I was like, "Yeah, but I could have done I could have done a lot better." So yes, academics did fail. Not fail, academics were affected by what had happened. But at the time, I didn't just got on with it. It just was a case of, oh, whatever. But clearly it did. Clearly it did. You know, I'm I was always a student, so for me to get C's was what the

[ __ ] is this? Do you know what I mean? Um, and that was without even trying. M >> um so I think for me once that happened I was like all right cool whatever and then um I went on to college and I think that's when it kind of went down the hill for me but I think by the time I got to college I had a zero [ __ ] attitude because my family environment was really fragmented. right in so many different ways that I don't think I could cope right if I look

back now I can look at I wasn't coping and >> what were what were you going through what was the challenge >> all right I'll tell I'll tell you what The challenge was so in our community when um a man dies the rest of the men in the community rally around and help the family help the mother they got children help the family financially and otherwise. Okay. Now, that's cultural. So, we had an uncle come in and kind of assume the role, the male role in the family, and he would, you know, come in every

now and again. Now, tradition, Traditionally, that's what happens. No one explained that to me. So, I just see this man come in and all of a sudden, he's there. He's there with mom, you know, he's there. He's always around the house. He's buying stuff and, you know, paying for this, paying for that, and and I'm like, "Okay, no one really explained that." So, I'm looking at it, I'm like, "My dad's just died." And now this guy's, "Who the [ __ ] is this?" No one explained that. So, I've got Conflict with that. I've got internal

conflict with that. I then clash with my mom because in her community where she's growing up, this is normal. But I'm I live in the UK. I've born and raised there. No one and no one's explained this. >> What was it? It was the sense that you're trying to replace my dad or is with someone else. >> I think I think at the age, you know, again, looking back in Hindsight, I think at the age you think, yes, he's coming to replace my dad. And I'm like, how dare you? How [ __ ] dare you

try and take especially when my dad was saying you were like good best friends with my dad and we see you all around and now all of a sudden you're here you know and what the [ __ ] like it was confusing for me okay and you know like I said he would provide whatever um so me and my mom clashed and clashed to the point where I just think I was Like [ __ ] everything you know what [ __ ] education [ __ ] all that so I stopped not stopped going to college,

but I bunked off college a lot and um so much so I remember I failed I failed my RA a level. I got an ungraded right and uh and don't get me wrong, I loved art. I was fantastic at it and the history particularly um the stories behind um a lot of the artists um were incredible. And I had this art teacher, her name was, um, Diana Willm, And she said to me, "King, I just want to say, um, you actually failed your art A level." I was like, "Yeah, okay, whatever." But she was like,

"But your written paper was written so beautifully and articulately, that's what gave you your E." She said, "You were ungraded, but your written paper gave you this E." She said, "It was fantastic." And I was like, "Yeah, I know. You don't have to tell me that." without being arrogant, I Just was like, "Yeah, I just didn't give a [ __ ] I just did not give a shit." So, my academics did suffer going into, you know, uh, college. And then was the clearing thing cuz I I got two C's and a E for my A

levels. And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to do anything with this. I didn't care at that time. I just was like, all right, whatever. But then you got friends going off to university and they're going through clearing. So, I remember being there and thinking to Myself, oh [ __ ] what the [ __ ] what am I going to do? And I was like, "All right, let me see if I can work with these results." So, I said to myself, "All right, let me go through a clearing. Let me see." All my friends

were going to these incredible universities. There was uh Brunell, there was uh you know, University of Durham. There were all these fantastic universities and I was like, I feel left Out. I'm the I'm the only one and I'm the academic. It's like what do you mean? So, I applied for clearing. I applied to Brunell for an engineering management degree and I got accepted based off of my extracurricular activities. Um because I just done the Princess Trust uh course as well. Yeah. So went to Brunell, knew [ __ ] all about engineering. Um I lasted six

weeks and I was like, "Yeah, this is this isn't for me." Um so I dropped out of Brunell and then I applied for a few jobs. Um, do you remember the uh company Kodak? >> Yeah. >> The photo photograph. So I worked for them for a while and then um my sister was working for London Underground. Then they um she's like they're recruiting. I was like, "Oh, all right. Let me let me go." I'm 18 now. So I let me So I applied as a station assistant. Didn't get it on the first first round. Um

and I was gutted. So, I reapplied, got on a secondhand, and um started there. Started at Green Park Station as a station assistant. Hated every minute of it. I [ __ ] hated that job. Uh the way the public treated you like you're a piece of [ __ ] piece of chewing gum on the floor. Um and the uniform was so heavy. You had to wear all the radio and the hat. It just was a lot. And it was so hot down there as well. I hated that job. And then um I I laughed because

this is actually quite a crazy crazy story. I got assaulted um when I was on my break outside the station. This guy came up and um clearly he wasn't the full ticket and assault me with a wine bottle. Uh needless to say, I tackled him. Uh we won't we won't go into that. Um and after that I had to think long and hard about my trajectory and I was like okay this is probably not going to I'm probably not this is probably not suited for me. So I thought all right I need to look at

going back to academics. So I went back and tried to figure out what I wanted to do and the food thing wasn't quite there yet. The food thing wasn't a fully fleshed out idea yet and I was like well look I love music. I love business. Let's try and combine the two. So I found um I found this degree was music industry management and it was at Um Buckingham Chilton's University College in Iwickham. So I applied I got in did the degree I got bored towards the end. It just was yeah it just wasn't for

me towards the end. Anyway, graduated and then um I was working still working part-time for London Underground Saturday, Sundays. Um, I graduated and I was like, "All right, music industry job or do I stay in London underground where the salaries Are already great and if I go full-time, I'm already up there." So, I went for this. I went for the underground. Um, that same year, train drivers job came out. So, my salary went from like 26K to 38K. I'm 23 now, right? And I was like, "Oh, this is a nice jump." And I was like,

"All right, we can do this money." So, I bought a flat. Um, and then I guess we can skip forward a few years. I'm cooking, doing family events, friends events, and everyone's Like, "You got something here, right? You should think about this." And I was like, "We'll see." Anyway, I had this had this idea. I did a um friends and family um what's the word? A friends and family kind of um critique day. So, it's like a Sunday. I called about 30 people around and I had this questionnaire and I I did everything. I did

grilled chicken. I did at this time I used to love Caribbean food, right? That used to be my forte. So, I think I did jerk chicken. I did rice and peas, co. I did everything, right? And I had a score sheet from 1 to 10. One being bad, 10 being great. Score it. Needless to say, it was more on the 10 side. So, I was like, "All right, we got something here." And I was like, "Okay, let me turn this into something." So I made these little business cards and it was called the grill king.

So I went around and then these cards out. When I Just started doing small jobs here and then traction started picking up and I was like, "Okay, there's something here, right?" And then um where I lived at the time um in Northwest London, Park Wales, all industrial, a lot of warehouses, a lot of workers. And I looked at this area and I was like, "Well, look, you live right bang in the center of all of this. You've got all of these businesses And nowhere for people to get lunch." So alarm bell started ringing. I was

like, "We'll just do a lunchtime delivery service." So I remember getting together this menu. I think I had three things on it. I had a jack chicken. I think I had an oxtail and a fish dish and sides and stuff. And then um I went out and gave samples out. The next day the phone started ringing. The phone just was ringing off the hook and I was like, "All right, This is something." So I bought a little moped, little red moped, called a Mary Jane. Love that moped. I had a heated back box. I sprayed

black. I thought I was the [ __ ] I thought I was the [ __ ] man. and um started this delivery service as I called it KK's at the time, King's Kitchen. And I I'm doing this alongside being a train driver. So, I'm doing this in lunchtime. I'm driving the trains in the evening. With the trains, you could Pick and choose the shifts you wanted to do. So, I was like, "Okay, we can split it. I can do the trains in the evening, do this in the day." So, everything was going well. And then

it got to a point where I was so tired, I hit a road signal. And this is the time when the train was manual. This is I'm talking way back when. And um I hit a red signal. The funny thing is when I hit the red signal, I was slowing down. I hit that 5 miles an hour. So I was Responding to the signal, but I was an autopilot. I was so tired when they downloaded the trailer. The manager was like, "But you were slowing down. How did you hit the signal?" And he was like,

"Yeah, you must have been an autopilot." I was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Okay, I've got to wait up. I can't do the two." Um, and at the time train driver's job was necessary was great. So I was like, "Okay, cool. Let me just stick with this. Let me put the Food stuff on the back burner, but we've got something." So we fast forward a few years later and I'm like, "All right, let me give this another shot." But this time, if I'm going to do it, let me do it properly. I need I

need to get some professional, you know, professional take on this. So, I had a friend who um had uh a couple of gastro pubs. One in Hamstead called the Juke of Hamilton, one in um Islington called the Barnesbury. And um he used to let me come on the weekends down to the Juke of Hamilton and do barbecues. They were so successful. This is like 2010 to maybe 2012. Every weekend barbecue sold out. Fantastic. And um he was like, "Look, this is great. Why don't you let me train you up properly? Come to my other gastro

pub. Um you know, train you up properly." And I was like, I don't know If that's what I want, man. Like I I don't know. But I said, "Yeah, uh cool. Do it anyway." Um so I went over to the Barnesbury and there was a a chef there, executive chef. There was Ivan. He was Slovakian and he was an [ __ ] He was a big [ __ ] I I think he felt threatened by me um for whatever reason. Um I wasn't there to take his job. I didn't care about it. I was just

there to learn. And we had an argument one day in the Kitchen and I walked around and I was like, I'm not going back there. I was like, I don't care what you're paying me. I'm not going back there. Um so I'd gone part-time on the trains and I went full-time. I was working seven days a week and um I took a step back and I was like, "Yeah, I knew it wasn't for me. That's not what I wanted to do." So I was like, "King, if you're going to do this, you going to do

it for yourself." So that's When I decided to transform that into my catering company, which is called King's Kitchen. So I had that early stages was 2008 when I really took it seriously was 2012 2013 um and I did that for up to 2020 up to 2020 >> this is when yeah you had this chance encounter therefore right >> right so this that that's a little bit later >> because this is >> this is what has led Did you >> I guess start to see you down this path of >> Yeah. >> where you are

now. >> Yeah. So, we skip forward to 2018. Um I'm going to New York for a friend's birthday. It's like a long weekend and um I'm flying with a friend of mine. It's her birthday, but we're going to meet friends. We got friends in New York Already. So, I used to follow this chef on social media. Um very similar style type of cooking to what I was doing. Same sort of, you know, background. um he's black, similar age, similar concept. And I was like, "Yo, this guy's dope. I love what he's doing. I would love

to do something like this one day." Like, you know, it was an inspiration. And I said, "If I ever get the chance to meet him, yeah, you know, so flying to New York, I'm in the Virgin Lounge, Terminal 3. This guy walks past me." I had seen on social media that he was in London, but I'm like, "Yo, he's just walked past me." I have to introduce myself. So I went up, introduced myself, turns out we're on the same flight to New York, right? So we land in New York. He goes off. Um he gives

us comp to like a restaurant and you know he he was that guy. We had a great time and he was like, "Look, I'm coming back to London." This was October 2018. He's like, "I'm coming back to London in November. I'm doing a job for Idris Ela. I'm going to need some help." I was like, "Yeah, call me." didn't think he was going to call me, you know, just celebrity shift and thinking he's just chatting [ __ ] >> Were you like excited by the opportunity of >> Of course. Come on, that's an opportunity of

a lifetime. Like, >> you know, to actually say it, but then To actually do it is two different things, right? >> So, a month later, he calls me and I was like, "Yo, let's do it." And at the time, >> very nervous. Yeah. But at the time, I had my catering company, so I had a service kitchen. So, I was like, "Look, I've got everything here. I've got all the equipment. I've got What do you need? Let's Let's go. And um so we went and did the job and I met the elers. Lovely. Really just

lovely people. >> Yeah. >> You skipped over met the Elvis. >> Okay. Go on. Go on. Go on. >> What was it like? You walk in. Idris is there. Obviously. Were you a fan? >> Um was I a fan? I don't think fan is the word. I think I admired him. I admired his craft. Admired his skill, >> you know. I knew he was that guy. Yeah. Um, >> but now here you're cooking taking you In front of like >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a >> stars, right? >> Big deal. That's a big deal. Yeah. >>

Is there a little pat on your back moment? >> You know what? I took a picture of myself cuz I was like, I want to remember this moment. Right. And I remember at the end of the end of that uh shift, I sat on the kitchen counter and I took a selfie and I was like, "Yeah, you did this." So, I got I've got it somewhere. I'll share it with you. And that was my moment to to realize, look, you're here. you you you said you wanted to do this cook for you know whoever and

whatever [ __ ] you've just done it >> so much so uh we did such a great job they invited us to their home the next day cuz they were having I think it was like a Thanksgiving dinner and then we investigated it. So we went did a bangup Job. What was interesting about that was I started sensing some energy from the chef, right? And I'm like, >> "This is the chef you met in the airport. >> This is the chef who I've met in the airport who's called me to do this job, right?" I

started sensing this energy and I'm like, "Am I imagining this shit?" Like this weird energy like this guy don't want me to be here. Like What's going on? So I remember it was Thanksgiving, right? you know, American, they have like cornbread and collard greens. Like, I know nothing about this food, right? I'm taking his lead. So, I'm under his watchful eye. So, he's like, "Make some cornbread." So, I was like, "Okay, no problem. But, do you have a recipe that you'd like me to follow cuz it's this is your show. I'm just here to help

you out." Figure It out. Okay. I figured it out. I made these banging corns. Let me tell you something. These cornbread muffins were singing when they came out the oven, right? And I remember putting them out, put some butter on it as well, right? And then they were fresh out of the oven. So then some of the um the guests are eating it and I can hear them talking about, "Oh my god, like these are incredible. Who made these?" And I'm like, "Yeah, this is this is something." But obviously this chef hears >> and he's

like, for some reason he was like, "Yeah, I'm not." Then he comes up with this um I guess some glaze that he had made and tries to put them on top. No, no, no, no, no. They're fine as they are. They're enjoying them as they are. So much so I had to go and make more. Right. >> But is this common within in the culinary world? Because >> you know, we know how How many chefs suffer from mental health. We know suicide was in the hospitality industry. Is there this rivalry? Is that quite common? Yes,

there is rivalry, but let me tell you, it shouldn't it shouldn't it shouldn't make you treat people like [ __ ] Do do you understand? Being competitive is part of anything that we do in life, right? It's just a natural human um condition to be competitive, of course. But to be nasty To people whilst being competitive is is no room for that. In my in my kitchen, there's no room for that. And that's only insecurity. So when you see someone do that, it screams [ __ ] insecurity, right? But that's got nothing to do with

me. So I I was ready to leave. I'm going to be honest with you. I was ready to leave. I was like, this this shave for me. Like what the [ __ ] I don't I didn't come here for this. This is not what I came here to Help. And um so so that was that. Anyway, something happened, right? I don't want to go into that. something happened and it led me to just take over the situation. So, I just took over. We finished up. We cleaned down and um went about our business. So, a

couple months later, I get a I get a phone call. It interests people have been trying to get hold of you. You'd lucky to come and Do some work for him. Um are you available? This is February 28 2019 now. So it just now wanted you to start doing personal work, >> right? So I get I get a phone call. I've been trying to get hold of you. So I was like, "Oh, okay." So I go over, I do this job and it's a week-l long job. Um incredible job with like um Slick Rick or

Slick Rick was Yeah. >> part of this uh camp. So anyway, on that particular job, [laughter] To my surprise, Idris walks in and he says, "Um, me and Sabrina were talking and we would just love you to do part of our wedding." And I'm like, "Who me?" >> He's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were discussing it. Um, we just would love you to to to do part of our wedding." It's like, "Right." I said, "Well, what about?" They were like, "No, no, no, no. We want you to do it." And I was like, "Okay." And

he's like, "It's in Morocco. It's this amount of people." And I'm like, "Okay, okay." So, I'm there and I'm just like, "What the mean you want me to [ __ ] do your wedding?" Like, "What do you mean?" And he's like, "Don't worry, Serena will call you tomorrow. She'll go through all the details." She calls me the following day. She gives me the details. And I'm sitting there after this call. I'm like, "How the [ __ ] did I get here?" I was Like, "What do you what do you mean I'm now doing their wedding

in Morocco?" >> You were you prepared to do a way like that? Is that >> Okay, cool. So, I was prepared on the scale because it was like 200 odd people, 250 people. We were already catering on that scale in my business uh for corporate. So, that wasn't the issue. My I wanted to call it an issue, but my um My fear at the time was I never worked with celebrities before on especially on this scale. I'm doing a wedding a wedding. >> So there were lots of other celebrities, >> everybody. >> Call them. They

were all there, right? I think it was um Vogue had, you know, take taken the reigns on it. So it was a whole Vogue thing. So there was everyone there, right? And it was in Morocco and it was like over three nights and Different venues. It was fabulous and five-star. It was opulent, right? As you can imagine. And um I'm I'm walking into this and thinking to myself, well, how the [ __ ] do I know about this? Yeah, I can do catering volume wise. It's cool, but I was like, okay, I don't know anything

about doing a wedding of this scale. So, I had to tap into all my resources. I had a good friend, shout out, Natty. Um, big up yourself, Nay. Um, he introduced me to a celebrity wedding planner. Had a great meeting with her and she said, "This is what you need to do." She gave me the blueprint. I was like, "Oh, thank God." Brilliant. >> What would happen if you hadn't met her? >> I hate to think. Honestly, I'd hate to think. I would have figured it out. >> Do you think you would have Yeah, you

would have >> I would have figured it out. >> You wouldn't have backed away. >> Absolutely not. I I I'm all about accept the challenge. >> Where does that come from? figure out how to do it after. I feel that's ingrained in me. I don't know where that's honestly I don't know where that's come from. I love a challenge. I love something that's going to stretch me mentally, you know. Um, give me a challenge >> because after you've done that challenge, you got the idea belt now, Right? >> You've got that and there's going to

be bigger challenges after, right? Or I should hope so. Bring it on. I'm like just let's keep let's see how far we can go, right? >> Is it important to you? >> Super important. I I think cuz that's how you grow. Otherwise, you don't evolve. You just stay sedentary and that I don't want to do that. Who wants to do that? >> What's the point in life? >> Did this was this like a sense of validation for you that you've got this wedding? >> Absolutely. man. It was a sense of validation on so many levels,

professionally, emotionally, um, intellectually in terms of visibility as well. It just was, it was levels. There was so many Levels to it because I think at the time even though my business was successful, my catering company was successful, there were problems. you know, I had a business partner who, you know, I would say wasn't the best business partner and there was there were issues there that we didn't we really discuss, but there were issues there that I was like, this is not working. This doesn't even make any sense. Like, how the hell am I Doing

this? >> What do you mean by that? The relationship or financially or >> everything again so many different levels. I think when you have a business there's so many you wear so many hats there's so many facets to to a business and then when you introduce a business partner because this business partner came on in not at the beginning it came on when you introduce a business partner at that stage and you give up a certain Amount of equity after what you've already built knowing what I know now that was a big it was a

big mistake >> how much did you give equity >> 40% >> 40% to someone you've never No, I I knew this I knew this person, but I didn't know them. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. They talked a good game, you know. Um, so knowing what I know now, that Would never happen. I would never even that would even cross my mind. >> Um, so there were there was stuff there was stuff going on there. So, we then flipped to this. For me, it's like, yeah, this is we're leveling up here. You know what

I mean? And not only that, I could kind of see myself moving away from that business model. I was like, "This is what I like. This is what I like. This is what I want to do." >> Let me ask you a question. Um, >> cuz off camera you were talking about you're 6'4". >> Wherever you go, you you know, there's a presence. Your presence, right? Here are two celebrities. Yeah. Black. >> And we're pretty much the same height. >> Same height. But also, it's the food. You're used to it. Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. >>

If it was a white wedding with white celebrities. Do you Think you would have been as cool? >> That's a great question. At the time, probably not. >> There probably would have been some resistance there. >> Um, >> because there's not a lot of chefs like you in this space. >> No, there aren't. Well, there there more now. Back then there weren't. Um there definitely would have been some resistance I think perhaps on the food Offering the type of food offering that I was you know um that I do it's West African based uh just

that and on the the flavor profile the palette texture everything is completely different from modern European so there probably would have been been some resistance and that however I would have found a way to you know weaver into it because that's what I do. Um, >> but going in there as >> Yeah. >> I guess because I know being a brown guy. >> Yeah. >> When I was younger, I would aware that >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> I'm walking into something. >> Yeah. You're that >> and then that affects everything. Me and my business partner, we

>> Yeah. >> When we were deep in the photography game, we'd go and do talks at events, The photography show. >> Yeah. >> The association of photographers and everyone's white, man. There's three brown boys on stage. >> Yeah. And um I know the guy probably meant it as a as as a compliment, but one of the guys who's quite senior in the in the >> in one of the associations said you guys are like the Indian ant deck. >> No, I just know >> right. >> No, what do you mean? >> I was like >>

he said that >> I was like okay >> what you what do you what are you supposed to say to >> what do we say? >> What do you say to that? >> The Indian and deck. What's that? Are we here to make you laugh or >> Okay. So what does that make us >> Yeah. uh palatable now. That's it. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Um there's definitely that that nuance. I think we do come with a precon in in in our heads. We have a preconceived idea of how people view us, especially people

who are not black and brown, right? And let's keep it real. It comes from a a valid place, right? Um, I think now I'm becoming more I don't give a [ __ ] About that. I'm just me. Take it or leave it. >> And how have you got to that space? >> I think a lot of trial and error and a lot of going back to the foundation of who you who you are, your culture, your roots, your tradition. You can't hide from that. And not it's not about trying to hide from it. Is this

is who I am. I I'm 6'4. me trying to cower and and and not be who I am and not tower, I'm doing Myself a disservice. How dare I walk into this room and try and shrink myself because to make you feel feel good or to make you feel valid or make you feel important, that's [ __ ] Going back to who you are, your essence, and where you come from, man, I tell you, you can't pay me to do that. That I'll forever scream from the rooftops. I'm proud Nigerian. I'm a six foot four

black man with dreads. And I always say this, if I died and come back, make me Black. Make me blacker. Yeah, that's my thing. I love being black. I love being this this man. I love being in this in this body. I love being in this form. I love having this voice. That comes with self- loveve. It comes with leveling up. It comes with validation. It comes with your culture. It's it's all intrinsic, man. It's all intrinsic. >> You said you said something there. Interesting. >> Yeah. >> You said self comes with self- loveve and

it comes with validation. >> Are they two different things? >> They are two different things, but they do overlap. >> They definitely talk to me about your self- loveve. >> I think my self love um is definitely grown from that kid, from that 15year-old. Um, you know, I think when you fortunate enough to get to to this age And you have enough life experience behind you now to look at things um, objectively or subjectively to look at things and say, "Oh, I I now I understand that. Now I understand why I was going through that."

Or, "Oh [ __ ] like that that boy just needed a hug." Do you know what I mean? And I think I'm now easy on myself. That's when the self- loveve comes in because yes I have high expectations of me and what I do but then a lot of that was thrust upon Me as well because being an early man um being academic you expected to just have certain things about you parts of your personality are supposed to become already um polished right and I walked with that learning to let all of that go and

just be who the [ __ ] you are is the best form of selflove yeah I might I'm the sum of all parts. I might be some of that, but there's more. There's more. There's so much more. And it's incredible. It's like um It's like, you know, when you cut into an onion, there's so many different layers layers to it, right? There's so much more than just the out the outside of what it presents, right? And I think getting older, having the life experience, you get to love all of it. you you get to a

point where you're like, I like the the part where I was confused. I like that person now. I can give that that that boy a hug. You know what I mean? We Didn't know he didn't know any better. He didn't know what that meant at the time when his dad died or he was going through that. He didn't know what that meant. Now I do. That's all the self that's self- loveve. and and and watching yourself in these rooms, watching yourself get through a part of your life where you are walking into these rooms and

people are calling people are calling your name and they want you to Be in these rooms and you know um that's the validation part like I said to you overlaps >> when you walk into a room >> with a name like >> it's got some weight on it I will say that especially now as well I People do have an expectation, you know, like King, first of all, it's like, who the [ __ ] does he think he is? Like, obviously, I didn't call myself king. Do you know what I mean? That's the name my

Dad gave me. And I thank God that he gave me that name cuz I love it now. I used to hate it. Can you imagine? I used to hate that. >> I [ __ ] love it now. Um, >> names hold weight. >> Big time. Big time. Names hold weight. And I tell you, this name that was bestowed upon me, I'm so happy. I'm so glad I got this name. And I try my best to walk into every room with that shoulders back, head straight, Confident, you know what I mean? And just self assured. And

I think um yeah, it does have gravitas when you walk into a room and there's an expectation as well, you know, but I I I can't be anything but me. This is what I get. This is what I present. I'm me. This is all I know how to be. I can't be anything else. I don't know how to be anything else. This is this is what you get. This is key. Do you ever think back and think my dad Gave me this name king powerful but then he also passed early and so I had to

grow into this >> without I was given this this crown young >> yeah and heavy is the head that wears the crown >> yeah do you have you affected like that >> I never I never looked at it like that >> cuz my name narup >> my dad made the name up >> and in Sanskrit and in Punjabi narup Means um man's look, man's form. >> Okay. >> And then when you think about the work that I do now within the men's space, it's like that's crazy how I'm >> doing to lead men into improvement,

self-improvement name, >> the name your namesake. >> And I'm like, yeah, my dad gave it a name, >> a namesake. It's powerful, right? >> And then you think back, you think, wow, it's something quite nice about >> Yeah. >> being given that. >> It's a it's a gift. It's a real gift. And I think you know my dad the story is uh the reason why I was given this name was my dad had all girls and then when his son came along he wanted to bestow this name and crown him king so here I am

and and that's the name I've been given and you know I love it honestly. Um but yeah and I never thought about it like that before given that name powerful name. My dad's passed at a young age and then you have to grow into it. Yeah. And I guess I was trying to do that to some degree without being conscious of it. Um, yeah, that's powerful. >> So, your work with Idris and all the stuff that you're doing now is fascinating and I want to tap back into that shortly, But one thing you were talking

about um, again off camera, so many great conversations before we hit record. >> Yeah, it's a warm up, man. It's a warm up. >> Was was you pining yourself through astrology? Is that something you you would like I like to dive into that a little you because it's >> okay >> men don't usually talk about this but I'm really fascinated by what you Learned about yourself through it >> and this is something I've delved into recently and I'm glad that you asked that question because >> you're right a lot of men don't talk about astrology

and look I think a lot of people get astrology misconstrued they think it's about the star signs and you know different star signs are different qualities there There's some truth to that, but then the majority of it is [ __ ] Astrology in terms of The astrology that we're we're talking about is the time that you were born. Um, yes, the month you were born, but the time specifically the time you were born and the houses in which align the time you were born and what your uh what is it? Moon, what is it? >>

Yeah. Moon sign. >> Moon signis, rising sun, sun sign rising. Right. >> Where all of that is positioned at the time you were born is Honestly, incredible. Like when I delved into it and I found out some things, I was like, "Okay, well, this [ __ ] makes sense now. All of this makes sense." >> Why did you want to find out more about yourself? >> I think again going back to what we were talking about earlier on about validation. All right. Um, this journey so far has been incredible and long last. In fact, I

think I'm just getting warmed Up. I'm going to be honest with you. Right. What I wanted to know was am I on the right path? Even though I know things have happened, great things and you know some not so great things have happened. Is this is this the right path? And you know just a little nod just like yeah you're good. You good? Just keep keep going. Keep going. That's all I wanted to know. Now with astrology, What it does do is it gives you a perspective um almost a blueprint of what you've already achieved.

What not achieved, what you already are and what you've brought into this life, right? It just made sense when I looked at when I got the chart when it was explained to me and going through everything. It's like, of course, this all makes sense now. So, I was like, I got the Validation I needed. I was like, yeah, this makes sense. >> Yeah, that's the best way for me to describe it, I think. Um, it's not all about um the star signs and and oh, you got this trait, you've got that trait. No, it's more

about it's it's quite um precise in terms of the time that you're born, where the moon is at that time, where the sun is because this you have past lives as well. And there is stuff That you carry into this life from your past life. There are traits that you carry and it might be the reason why you might be bossy or you might be super organized or you you might be OCD in this area. Those are some traits that you probably have had in past lives. Now with astrology, it mind maps everything for you

and positions everything. So you can say have a look at this and then there are choices in which direction you want to take this right. You can look at This and say okay do I want to let that go? Because there are things that we have in our chart that don't serve us. >> Yeah. >> There's stuff there that's just it's old stuff clear. What has there been in your life that you think hasn't served you? >> Um, >> because I think all men carry stuff that >> I think >> we don't let go of.

>> No, you're right. I think for me a lot Of it is emotional baggage. >> Um, just from from being, you know, growing up, stuff that >> it's compound. You you and you don't need it. It's baggage. You just let it go. You don't need it. And I think um I have a Taurus what is it? >> Taurus moon. >> Taurus moon, right? which we were talking about makes you quite emotional. Um, what else is it? >> Same as me. Emotional, right? >> Yeah. Emotionally stable, but empathetic, right? And my empathy was on 100. Like,

oh, oh, okay, cool. Oh, maybe not. You know, [ __ ] all that. Excuse me. I say that I say that I say that with um, you know, um with experience. Um, there are things that I am changing now. I know, you know, the alignment of of where things are that I don't need. I'm not saying I don't need to be empathetic, but I'm saying I don't need To be 100% empathetic all the time, >> you know, that I can I can I can pull back on that, you know. Um, I don't always need to

be in control, you know. Um what one of the things that came up was um perhaps in one of my past lives um the job I had was like a a general or very organized you know um and I'm super or ask anyone who knows me everything's got a place it's organized like I don't leave any stone unturned And part of that perhaps in this life is to probably let go of some of that because yes as much as I am organized It takes a lot. It's a lot of brain work you've got to put

into that. And you can't let up because once you're given that, once that's bestowed upon you, it's it's here. You're on that pedestal. >> And then you put yourself on the pedestal. No, I can't I can't fail in that area. And it's just like, well, it's not that deep. >> It's just not that deep. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah, be organized, but you can let some [ __ ] go. >> So, I think for me, that's what I kind of took from this is certain things you can just relinquish. How does that

serve you now? Um, in the position that you are because I was told about you. >> Yeah. >> The first thing I was told is his Idris Elvis private chef. And I was like, amazing. >> Yeah. >> But that's what what he is. Who is he? >> Right. Exactly. You know, so glad you said that. >> And it's like, okay. So, how how can like you said before off camera, you want to inspire people through this, inspire them to chase their dreams, to follow what they need to do. Yeah. What is it? What do you

think stops people From doing that? Especially men. Like what is it that >> I I think it's a great question. I think a lot of the stuff that stops men from being emotionally mature and getting going getting through these emotions. It's not even their stuff to begin with. It's stuff that's been thrust upon them by society, by their peers, by the culture, by tradition. You're a man. You're supposed to this, That, you can't be seen to have emotion. You can't be seen to cry. You can't be seen to show that. It's [ __ ] [

__ ] The quicker you get through that is the quicker you get to the best parts of your life, right? What? How incredible is it to be vulnerable? That's strength as far as I'm concerned. When you are vulnerable, it unlocks a level of strength that not A lot of people have because they don't want to be vulnerable and men are not supposed to be seen as vulnerable. And I think that's detrimental. How would you explain that to some someone who um would never open up? Because I don't actively try to do this, but I can't

help. My mind is does it >> is >> whenever I'm in a public setting, I see men >> and we run men's groups and events. So, I'm around men a lot. >> I look at someone, I think, I wonder if that guy >> would be vulnerable and open up about his life. M >> does he look like the type of man >> got you >> that would do it like >> his his >> presence. Yeah. >> Would he? >> Yeah. >> Would he do it? Why would he not do it? >> And I and I

do that just >> maybe some analyzing. Maybe it's like >> market research or whatever it might be. Just >> trying to understand what is it >> trying to relate. >> Yeah. What is it that stops one man >> from opening his mouth and saying >> I ain't dating because >> it's pressure, man. It's pressure. It's Pressure. Isn't Isn't a lot of it self pressure? Isn't a lot of it is if I open up about this? >> Yeah. If I open Pandora, >> I don't know what >> Yeah. >> I've put down in this job. >>

But it's it's fear as well. A lot of it is fear. It's fear of the unknown. And I think, look, we're human and we do fear the unknown. >> Once again, it, you know, I'm just going To speak off the cusp here. Once you unlock fear, it's limitless after that, man. Once you unlock that fear, and it's hard. It's I'm not by, you know, trying to downplay it by any stretch of my imagination. Unlocking fear is hard. Do the hard things, man. Do the stuff that scares you. Do the stuff that you're thinking, "Fuck, I

could never do that." Do it because what comes after that >> is >> Yeah. And I love the way I love your attitude because um like even the events you're doing now, >> you just do it. I'm just going to do it. Do it. >> Do it. Right. >> It scares me. Do it. And >> even more so if it scares me. >> Yeah. >> Do it. >> That's the approach we've taken is we're just gonna get it done. So do it. >> Get it done. >> Because once you've once you've done it once, >>

it is it's confidence. I could do it. I've done that. >> You've risen the bar on yourself. You've given yourself permission to be vulnerable to be release that emotion that you had release that fear cuz then now you can go on and be fearful about something else and then unlock that level. And then after that you unlock That level. And I call that that's my definition of imposter syndrome. >> People say, "Oh, imposter syndrome is um do I deserve this?" You've just not done that yet. That's how I look at it. You've just not done

that thing yet. But once you've done that, guess what? There'll be something else you've not done yet. Then after that, there'll be something else you've not done yet. And that's your imposter syndrome because you've just not reached that level yet. But once you do, there's another level. Then once you do that, there's another level. So imagine you didn't start that journey. Imagine you didn't start that. You're just sitting here wafting below consciousness, unevolved, just sitting there in a cess pit of [ __ ] Who wants that? Yeah, it takes a lot to even start that

intention cuz it's it's an avalanche, you know, when it starts. But the minute you start it, my god, what opens up for you is incredible. >> And that's why I think it is going back to your question, fear. It's it's unlocking that once once you can unlock that fear. Life is limitless, man. It really is. It's limitless. Just do the stuff that scares you. Do it anyway. Feel the fear. Do it anyway. It's a book. Susan Jeffers. Do it anyway. >> How do you um as a chef deal with feedback and stuff on your food?

I know you I know it's always been good, but I Do look >> not all the time. >> Okay. I do look at like when you look at Gordon Ramsey shows or any of these shows >> and they're getting told off and you're hasting the food and you're like if I just >> put out one bad dish >> if I did one of my pop-ups, one of my events, >> I didn't get a good review. >> Yeah. >> How do you make sure that doesn't knock everything that you built? >> So what you've just described

there is ego. >> Okay. You can't do this. I can you can do anything creative if you have an ego, right? Okay. Ego gets you to a certain part but then you got to abandon it. >> Give me your definition of ego. >> Okay. Just exactly what I said. Ego is Okay. Ego comes with a certain level of Confidence and uh competence. Okay. It will get ego will get you in a room. Who you are will keep you in that room. Once you get past the ego and you relinquish that it it it can serve

you to a certain degree cuz it's not all bad. Ego is not all bad. It will serve you to a certain degree, but you got to let it go. You cannot go into a creative space with ego because everything you're going to take personally. Every single thing you're going to nitpick and tear Apart, but that's your ego doing it. And it's damaging. Really damaging. So, as far as I'm concerned, you can't do this and have an ego. The ego that doesn't serve you. You got to get to a point of confidence, quiet confidence, where evidition

might not be a masterpiece, but I'm okay with that. You know, I get an opportunity to do this again, right? And feedback is essential because if something tastes like [ __ ] and no one's told me, guess what I'm Going to go and do? I'm gonna make that again, right? I'm gonna go and do the same thing again because I'm thinking you liked it. You've told me, "Oh, it's incredible, but tastes like shit." So, how do I learn from that? How do I evolve from that? So, I relish in feed, constructive feedback. I'm talking about

constructive feed, but not when the point where people just want to be nasty and >> that I have no time for >> because there's a lot of pressure. I think we were talking about this on the phone. >> Um, working with celebrities, celebrity clients. >> Yeah. >> Cooking their food. Yeah. >> Even their entourage. >> Yeah. >> You can walk into a space and I felt it when we've done our celebrity work. You're like, >> energyy's tight. Yeah, >> there's a lot of ego here. There's a lot of people think they're important >> and I've

got a hormone feed >> and they got to find it tasty. >> There's nerves. How do you prepare yourself first? >> You know what you the only thing you can prepare is yourself. You can only be you, right? And let me just say people bite into who you are first before they've even tasted your food. If you Can win someone over with your personality, just who you are as you present, the food will taste a million times better. >> It's as simple as that. Don't get me wrong, your food has to be the [ __

] at the same time. But what I'm saying to you is it's not all about the food. It's about who you are as a person. Do they believe you? Do they believe that you you you're worthy of cooking this food? Do they believe this food that's come From you? Because well, if your confidence is like on the floor, well, how's he cook? This can't be him. It's got to be someone else. It's got to be something else. down to presentation, delivery, taste. >> It's down to energy. It's down to all the above, but it's down

to energy first. It's how you move, how you navigate through these rooms. Um, so what's your process if you're walking into a room with a new Celebrity and he's got 15 people in a room? Yeah. And there's ego and there's this >> bravado and there's this all this stuff. And you and you're coming in. What do you say? >> I don't match it. I just be me. One thing I don't do is match who you are. I can only ever be me at any given time. That's always what I'm going to do. Everyone else has

taken so I can't be anywhere else, right? Don't match it. Just be you. Hey, how you doing? Lovely to meet you. Great. Um, here's what I've prepared. Um, you know, I would have had the dietries already. I would I would have had the rider. I would have had whatever the request is. Oh, I've made I heard this was your favorite. I've made this or blah blah blah blah blah. Oh, okay. Cool. And then try this. Have you tried this before? No. Why when you try some of this? And before you know it, okay, [ __

] Well, can you do it? We can Do that. We do that next time. We can do that. I can figure that out now. Before you know it, it's camaraderie, man. So, it's all about who you are >> as a person. >> Yeah. That comes first. That comes first. >> That's really interesting cuz when we were big enough in the photography game >> and we had to shoot a celebrity, sometimes we had 30 minutes to shoot someone for like a magazine cover. Yeah. >> But our our way of disarming them was always is always making

them laugh. >> Always make her laugh. Not taking ourselves too. >> Be relatable. Yeah. Because you hear about all these photographers who have got this ego and attitude. We're just cover trying to make you laugh. >> Leave it at the door. >> Yeah. And it always works. >> Yeah, it does. Because think about it. They're the talent, right? They're Expected to behave a certain way. It's their show, right? And then people are coming for them. They've they're up there already, okay? They don't want someone else walking into the room who's brav got bravado and is,

you know, big up their chest and all this other [ __ ] because then it takes the the light away from from them. Not to say that's what happens. But don't match it. Just be you. People naturally will Gravitate towards that. Good people will naturally gravitate towards and see through all the [ __ ] Yes, there are a myriad of celebrities that I've cooked for and then you know you can see who these people are but nine times out of 10 they just want you to be you. They don't want all the extra [ __

] and the bravado when this that and the other. They don't want all that. They just they they dig you. You know what I'm saying to you. They look at you And be like, "Oh, you cool person." Yeah. Yeah. I want you around again. Yeah. Yeah. Call that guy again. Yeah. Yeah. He was cool. Cuz you're just you. >> What do you think most people misunderstand about you? >> Okay. I'm so glad you asked that question because I used to get um people used to call me arrogant. >> Could you >> arrogant? >> Arrogant. >>

And I think there's a really um >> I don't see that by the way at all. >> Thank you. And I appreciate you saying that. I I think there's a really um distinct line between arrogance and confidence. Arrogance is oh look at me all this [ __ ] right? And you come in with chest and you know all that. Who's got time for that? Quiet confidence is walking into a room knowing who who you are without even opening your mouth And people get it. You can be in that room and be a presence without even

opening your mouth >> but being quietly confident. That speaks volumes. Um that's a a myth I hope to dispel. Um although I I don't really get that anymore. I used to get that a lot. I used to get that a lot. Um, >> yeah, >> it's important in what you do to have that quiet confidence. >> You have to because you can't navigate in these spaces if you don't if you're going to go in there, like I said, the louder of the bra. Nobody wants you around. Nobody wants that. >> Do you think you would

have built that sense of quiet confidence if you didn't have these ups and downs of your career? like the business partner who tried to do you wrong and your business closed, you know, all the other kind of setbacks you've had. Was Your confidence built through riding the wave of life? >> Absolutely. I think all of that is compound um and attributed to who I am today. I don't think had my family been through what we went through at a young age and moved to all these different houses, um, my dad dying, going through, you know,

the part where me and my mom weren't 100%, you know, having conflict in the family and then dropping out of uni, you know, going to The underground and doing all these things, they shape you. And I I don't think had I not experienced those things, >> it would have fashioned me to being quietly confident now. Um, I got a story to tell. Actually, this is such a good story. I'm so glad you touched on this. Now, >> so the story where I cooked um I was asked to the first job I did for Idris, he

Called me back. It was a writer camp and it was a week-l long um project and it was Slick Rick and there was a few other producers there and at the end of that week it was a Friday and I was sitting in the living room finished everything. It was a great week. Everything was great. I remember sitting in the living room. There was four of us in the room. It was myself, it was Idris, Slick Rick and his wife. >> Slick Slick Rick is a rapper. because he's a rapper. He's actually a UK rapper,

but you know, he's he's um resides in the States, but incredible rapper, um old school rapper, one of the pioneers of hip- hop. So, pick up yourself, Slick, Rwick. >> Um lovely guy, by the way, and his wife, absolutely stellar. Um I remember sitting in that room, thinking, "How the [ __ ] did I get in?" I was at the back of this room, right? I Remember sitting in. I was like, "I shouldn't be in this room. This is weird." like I feel out of place. Theress is back there. He was getting ready for a

gig. He's a DJ. He's had his headphones on. He's doing something on his laptop. Slick Rick and his wife were just sitting on the sofa just, you know, having a drink. And I'm just sitting in this room and I'm just like, "How the [ __ ] did I get here?" Like, it was I was so It was an out-of- body experience, Right? And I remember sitting in this room just thinking to myself, I don't deserve to be here. I shouldn't be here. Like, how the hell did I end up in this room? This doesn't make

any sense to me. >> Why did you feel you didn't deserve to be in that room? >> I had imposter syndrome. >> Remember I said to you earlier on, imposter syndrome is something you've never done before. So, you were like, It's foreign to me. But once you've done it, you then level up. Cuz then after that, I was like, "Yeah, of course there is a reason why you're here." Because you work your ass off and you were asked to come here because on your merit on what you've done. >> So, yes, you deserve to be

in this room. And then after that there was more rooms you know >> bigger rooms >> you know um so for me that was just the First level >> one of the first levels of the imposter syndrome >> experiences >> looking back at the young 15year-old who had to shovel the dirt on his dad's coffin as we come to a close of this conversation two questions one is did you ever feel like you became the man of the house that they said you needed to be? And two, what do you think Your dad would think

of you if he was here if he saw what you're doing now? >> Powerful questions. Did I have you do feel you became the man? >> Feel I became the man of the house. Um to this day I still don't know what that means. >> I can be honest with you. To this day, what does that even look like? What does the man of the house look like? Has your family leaned has because four sisters and a mom have they leaned on you to be Certain male figure >> to to a certain degree. Yeah. To

a certain degree. Um my mom never remarried or anything. So I am the guy. You know what I mean? So she does come to me for oh king and you you know but that's mom. So you know that goes without saying. I'm going to do when I can I'm going to do you know. Um sisters alike you know they need something. If I'm if I can do it yeah you know and two of them are married you know. if I can Do it. Yeah, of course. Of course, I'll do it. So, yes, essentially in essence,

yes, you do become the man of the house by default. But what does that look like? I mean, is there a picture of what that looks like? I don't know. Does that make sense? I really don't know. Um, and your second question was, what would my dad think of me? Or do I think my dad would think of me? I think he would be like, I gave you that name. Yeah, you did that. >> Yeah. That's what I hope he'd think. I think he'd be proud of me. >> So now you're focusing on your supper

clubs. You're with your supper clubs, you got your events, Smoke and Soul. >> Yes. >> Tell me about that. >> So um you know in addition to the private uh class that I have I you know have built um I've built a collective now you know and again it's my namesake which is amier But I call it amakay just you know gentrify whatever you want to call it. um which means remember home. My dad also gave me that name as well. It means remember home. So I've called this part of my business that. >> So

under that umbrella I've built um a smoke smoke which is a fire event um chef chef event where I at the helm of the barbecue um it's day party vibes. We have a DJ, we have cocktails, we have brand partners. Um, and it's a Celebration of just wherever you're at in life. That's just community. We come together, we have a good time. Do you know what I mean? Like that's just vibes, you know? And then I do supper clubs as well where it's a shared table experience. Um, I create a menu, create, curate a menu,

and then we share, we break bread um together and just again have a a a communal dining experience, elevated dining experience. Um, so that's kind of what I'm focusing on Right now. Um, I really enjoy it because as much as I enjoy the private clients that I, you know, still work still work with and still do, this is the fun part of it. Not that the private stuff isn't fun, but that's more regimented. I have fun with the the supper clubs and the smoke and soul. Um, that's more we can go over there and just

chill out, you know what I mean? >> Um, so I like the balance between the two. >> Um, so we're growing we're growing that. We're growing that right now. And it's it's incredible, I have to say. Like, I'm super proud of it. Super proud of the team that I have, team of chefs, um, and everyone that ranies behind me. It's incredible. >> Would you see this or do you see this as the start of like some global empire? Do you do you want to be a >> like what I'm going to say to say Gordon

Ramsay has done? Do you see it as being More community, more creative, more >> I mean, look, who doesn't want it to be successful, right? Who doesn't want a successful business? I'd be lying if I said, "Oh, I don't want it to be, you know, as big as it as it can get." Absolutely. Um, it's starting as a community- based uh initiative, which I love, and I'm always going to be that's my remember home, you know, that's my I return to home. It's always going to be like that. But absolutely, I'd love it To grow,

you know, cuz I I don't just see it being London based. I see it being based in Nigeria. I see it being based in Miami or based in New York or Dubai or wherever. Wherever we go, it's a following and we can just drop it here, do our thing, get out and go to the next one. That's how I see it. >> Love that, man. Um, you got big vision. >> I think I I can see you doing it. >> Yeah, I'm going to do it. Yeah, I'm Going to do it. And um it's exciting.

I think this chapter um I coined the phrase, I call it my turn. >> Yeah. This chapter is my turn. >> I love that. >> Yeah. >> Um you said you want to retire at 50. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> You're 44 now, eh? >> I'm going to be 44. Yeah. This birthday comes. >> 50 is young, man. You got a lot of life after that. >> Well, I'm not saying Yeah. That's the point. That's my point. Like I want to enjoy it. Do you know what I mean? >> Do you not do you not want

to cook forever? When I say retire, I don't mean stop everything. Do you know what I mean? I mean I can just take a step back >> and just enjoy the fruits of labor, my labor, >> and delve into what I want to do. You Know, when I say retire, I don't mean completely switch off. I mean, I want to go and do that. I want to do that. I want to be able to have the option to say I could pick and choose what I want to do. That's what I mean. >> Is 60

years enough for you to get there? >> I think so. I think that's decent. God willing, if we get if we get we get it. So, I'll take it. We get it. Yeah, I'll take it. >> And what does life look like after that For you? >> Peace, man. Sun by the water. Um, and quiet. Be still. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> From from a quite a chaotic >> Yeah. >> life. >> Cuz it's a lot. It's a lot. Like, heavy is the head that is the crown. I keep saying that cuz it's a lot. And

the stuff that comes with, you know, um, orchestrating Business, a lot of people don't see it. The stuff that goes on behind the scenes, oh my god, I'm definely pulling up my dread sometimes. People don't see all that. They see the end product. They see the the gloss, the high gloss finish. And it's great when it gets to that part because that's what you want, you know, but the stuff that comes with it. Um, the emotional side, the financial side, the knowhow or the you're trying to figure it out. You Know, you don't know everything.

You're still trying to I'm still trying to figure stuff out. And sometimes you stumble, which is okay because that's when you learn. You fail fail quicker so you learn. And um, you know, it's it's the sum of all parts, you know. But above all, I'm proud of it. >> Proud of it. Yeah. >> Well, look, man, that's been it's been a great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, man. I like that we touched on different parts. >> Yeah. >> I want to understand the man beneath it all. >> Yeah. >> And also how you built

from the childhood that you have and what all that taught you, I think was really important. >> Definitely. I agree. >> And um I think people will leave this Conversation feeling inspired. >> I hope so. >> Thank you so much for being here, man. >> My pleasure. Nice. Appreciate you, man.