Joe Rogan Experience #1453 - Eric Weinstein

What's up brother how are you Joe how you hanging in there I have not been off of my property more or less in two weeks so it's crazy to see another human being yeah I don't think this is healthy for us I know this lockdown [ __ ] everybody's so weirded out he want to run into people walking dogs like they don't want the dogs to get close to each other like hi everyone's across the Street hi and I'm a hugger right anywhere in California so I'm a hugger in California and all of my instincts

are wrong everything's all messed up everyone's confused here's the big question how long does it take before we normalize and go back like let's say the end of July everyone announces we got this thing locked down we have a viable treatment it's no different than the flu they get you this chloroquine with the z-pak or whatever the current treatment Is yeah when do people start hugging again what do you mean it's night it's gonna be crazy I mean I think that the ideas were also starved for touch yeah like we're gonna have a a Jubilee

like you've never seen people are gonna greet each other with tongues who are almost like just acquaintance I don't think that's a good idea there's still colds and cooties and all that I know but I think I think Everybody's losing their [ __ ] they definitely are I've been talking to a lot of friends that are on the extremely cautious side let's say that and you know they're not going anywhere and they're wearing gloves and masks when they step outside their house to go do something the backyard and they put the glove and mask down

and they spray it with Lysol and they come inside and it's not healthy and it is also healthy I mean the idea that we have not been Tested and so long it's good to remember also that this stuff is live and real and it has always been live and real and you know if it was possible to live without this stuff that would be one thing but the 75-year nap that we've been in since 1945 is itself the greatest threat to all of us right and and our preparedness is just a wonderful indicator where you

actually get to see this is the quality of your experts this is the quality of your leadership this Is what they look like when put under stress that's true right that is a good that's a good thing and I'm impressed with the medical community I'm impressed with the people that are recognizing that this is a huge problem not so impressed with the administration of a lot of these hospitals that haven't prepared in terms of like masks and ventilators and a lot of these other things not so impressed with politicians but also it Just seems like

everyone like you said was in this nap state and hadn't really been tested and really globally no one had been tested since the pandemic of 1918 like this right 68 which I had I had the Hong Kong flu and 57 were sort of the best parallels to this you got the Hong Kong flu in six I had the Hong Kong flu and it was sick as a dog I will San Francisco I was like three two three four stop it I think it went from 68 to 72 remember It oh yeah and I was in

San Francisco my grandma had to come up from LA to care for me it was it was bad there's like one of my earliest memories yeah and so 68 and 57 I think are the best comparables to this going before we go back to 1918 and almost nobody remembers these things like it's very weird many people that never heard of the kong-kong flu when I started talking about the fact that I'd yeah I've a Glee remembered it until you just said it no No Mike I'm slightly older than you right yeah I'm 52 I'm 54

yeah I don't remember the Hong Kong foe but I do you know I mean like I don't remember it personally no but but you as a health geek are up on these sorts of things and so you understand the ways in which you know for example you can have a flu where the I guess the cytokine storm you know is you're either the threat from your immunity your immune system is like bigger than the virus itself there are All these various weird things that happen but I think that this that let's call it the big

nap the big nap is itself the greatest threat to us and this is this is bad but it is also a shot across our bow and in you know this is what's happening in my mind when I was on here talking about the to a nuclei problem of cell an atom we didn't stop history it's not like we're past atomic war like we figured that out we just we just hit the pause button for A little while we hit snooze yeah the fear is also that nefarious players will take this opportunity to erode civil civil

rights to erode civil liberties and then China to gain power in the US market to gobble up a lot of stocks while everything is down and try to increase their stake in our economy and try to push it you know China's got its hands lovingly around our throat because our elite have been moving into greater and greater states Of China dependence mm-hmm right and so and so what the BDSM community refers to as breath play and I don't like it migrant plays like you kind of like half choke somebody yeah how do you know that

what oh you know I went it I went to I went to MIT and MIT is wildly into BDSM so many other white wire geeks and and aspies into BDSM that somebody said lots of rules what's an Aspie there's people right lots of rules they like that they like They love rules because they're hope because to do all this stuff safely you would have to have a huge hierarchy right of rules and my claim is is that China is they supply so much of our stuff we've moved all of our yeah you know manufacturing base

into these crazy supply chains and we are completely dependent on a strategic rival and you know China is very careful if you remember when they when they hosted the Olympics to have these amazingly Impressive displays that are always friendly but what they're really saying is we have our [ __ ] together and our system was hackable it was open as long for example if you have a company that has a duty to its shareholders they the directors of the company must do what as ever whatever is in the best interest of the shareholders and everything

else doesn't matter then you can have a situation where a director has to move things to China because that is in the Best interest of the shareholders even if it's an absolutely not in the best interest of the United States this is what Ralph Comrie who used to head the sloan Foundation once said in an address I was at at the National Academy of Sciences he just said as a director I am incentivized to do exactly the wrong thing for the United States of America so I'm gonna put one hat on and tell you as

an American we must not move all of this Over to China and then I'm going to put my directors hat on and I'm gonna vote to move everything over to China because I have no choice and so you know in essence the smart good people all 11 of them we're always fighting this thing about you cannot become China dependent and in during the big nap there was no way to make this argument convincingly you couldn't say look we have a serious strategic problem by your continuing Moves to bring China in as the solution to every

equation we can't balance and that that is really the problem is is that there wasn't any ability to say we are way too dependent on a strategic rival you saw this at the beginning of the pandemic everyone was afraid of what I don't want to be appear xenophobic I don't appear like Chicken Little right and so all of our friends the nutcase is the marginal weirdoes the supposed grifters and gadflies are the people who Most got this one right and early and all the respectable people like Nancy Pelosi telling people please go to Chinatown to

celebrate the Chinese New Year bill de blasio of New York saying despite carnivals get out there let you know don't lead your lives don't don't let this thing hold you back these people need to resign Nancy Pelosi should resign it's one thing to say we don't have enough information about this it's another thing to say take the Information that's coming in disregard it and get back in there and keep fueling the economy this is exactly our leadership class their problem they think about this in short-term economics the the long-term implications of us all sheltering in

place nobody can compute the consequences of not one person in the world knows what happens when you run this experiment yeah it's a new thing right the made in America argument was always like sort of Frivolous almost xenophobic like why do you want things made in America what do you care do you not do not like people from other countries do you not want things from other countries it was like this made of it made in America thing was like people disregarded it in a lot of ways but when you realize that all of our

medical supplies like so much of our electronics so much of all the stuff that you need to kind of keep things exactly the way they are it's cheaper to Make it over there because they will like what we saw with Foxconn where they put Nets around the building to keep people from jumping off and the weirdest thing was people trying to argue that the suicide rate at Foxconn was essentially the same as a suicide rate in the general population well you ever heard that argument yeah what the [ __ ] are you talking about that's

where they work there's Nets around where they work because so many People where they work jump off the building to end their life because their life sucks that bad that they killed themselves at work do you know rare it is to kill yourself at work probably pretty [ __ ] rare you know how common it is where you have to put Nets around the building you're like look we're getting really tired of people going to the roof and jumping off because it's the easiest way to kill yourself they're gonna get more creative yeah the problem

Is we are all hooked up to this need for cheaper products yeah profits when we can't figure out how to innovate enough to actually create the juice in our own system and therefore we have to rationally say I mean also we've gotten into this idea of every year we have to have a newer better piece of electronics like if you gotta go the rest your life with an iPhone 11 how much would you suffer not that much although I would say that many of us are not that excited About the next phone that would that

that itself is an antiquated thing right but what I'm saying is like why can't they make it so that you can just fix this yeah you know I mean like who the [ __ ] fixes their phone you don't fix your phone you bring not depression-era thinking it's like why can't things be sustainable no no I the plants obsolescence and the need to constantly update so that you know you're never it's a tricky problem if you need growth To power your system then in a weird way it makes sense not to build the optimal phone

right because if you were to build the optimal phone and then people stopped renewing everything your systems [ __ ] then your system weirdly breaks down so it makes sense at the level of the phone that you wouldn't want to do that but weirdly in aggregate if you can't start innovative if you can't figure out how restart innovation in a big way now you're stuck with either Having to live learn to live in steady-state which none of us we Americans have no program for living in steady-state we need growth that was the whole point of

the embedded growth obligation idea that it's a fused throughout every institution every pension plan assumes growth right right all right so now we have this problem where we don't have the growth and we need the growth and then in a weird way the planned obsolescence is like fake Growth it means that we're gonna rebuy our phones even as if they were now highly innovative so there's like a weird way in which we become dependent on nonsense you know dependent on nonsense is a great way to put it this is really highlighting that for a lot

of people when people are home and they're with their families and they're not travelling especially people like me and my peers like a lot of my comedian friends who travel constantly We're like it's kinda nice to be home you know everyone sort of relooking it's just like what it is this life that we've sort of accepted as this is the way things are is this really the way things should be or is this just we just got caught in a pattern and we're operating on momentum if the committee Archimedean force becomes non dysfunctional we are

screwed well that's not so many is far away from normal as Canadian I Know it's why I get along with them so well it's so hard for me to hang out with regular folk you know that's that would be rough like if I had to live in a community of regular people that just work every day but if you had like a community of only comedians what would that look like Oh that'd be fine really yeah yeah we'd be fine we have that that's the comedy show comedy story yeah if the Comedy Store was just

locked down on like a 500 acre piece of property and There's a bunch of houses on there for each other we just entertain each other well half the fun of comedians is just us hanging out we would just get together in laugh well by the way I should just say one of the great things about moving back to LA has been your invitations to come hang with the comedian's at the store what a great scene I mean you made this point to me about a renaissance and then I think I sent you David Burns book

about Music the chapter on CBGB and it's almost an exact map of what CBGB did as the Harvard of punk to the comedy stores Oxford of comedy yeah yeah you you've been to the back bar look that's the smoke you got me hammered two times ago and I was just I stumbled out of that thing that was the best time I could remember anything well you know it's great to even when non comedians like yourself and you know Melissa and Matt and you know some of their friends And all these other people come there and

they're around these people they act freer they're laughing louder they're making you know more off-color jokes and everyone's just laughing Oh having fun I mean that list is the worst you have to be very careful oh she's hilarious she's very funny yeah Melissa Chen by the way shout out shout out to Melissa by the way what great stuff she's doing on masks yeah explain that well she's just she just takes it on herself to ask The question why don't why don't our doctors and nurses have masks and so she's running around trying to figure out

how to connect donors flights product whatever she's doing she's heroically like taking a ton of this on her shoulders and not I I'm hesitating because I don't even know what I'm allowed to say right yeah we don't have to talk you should she's she's a very interesting person I'm really glad you Introduced me to her she's fascinating this like this is a great time to see what people are actually made out of yes whose heroic the heroic impulse sure and and who can keep their [ __ ] together when things go sideways when things get

western as it were well let me ask you a question of all of the presidential candidates that were in the race like everybody has dropped out and as well which of them would you want in a Kovan Tulsi Tulsi That's by the way that was my answer as well I don't I didn't want her pop foreign policy that's one of the reasons I wasn't like gung-ho and Tulsi I didn't like some of the stuff about in India there's some issues about Modi and I don't want to get into that but if you asked like who

would you want to like who has that kind of lockdown military we have to make sense the [ __ ] needs to leave the room the odd thing is it's a millennial female of color that I Would immediately want to subordinate to well she's because she would also be no [ __ ] she she had the strength to call out all of the nonsense she was if she would just say this is unacceptable what are we doing this is emergency times we had to suspend these issues we have to get these things to our doctors

nurses emergency technicians I mean look I should say that I'm trying to be like smiley and positive but I am just burning with rage I cannot those weren't Set up correctly the scale of the screw up and trying to even understand a government that I cannot trust as far as I can throw it to feel contempt for the Surgeon General of the United States to say that the World Health Organization is a danger to world health to say that the CDC is lying I hate being in a position where I believe yeah um what about

Tulsi she's she's a person of real character you know I don't see her like I see a lot of these people that are Running for president I see them wearing masks you know I mean I don't even need to name names but they're doing their best impression of a politician like a shitty comedian will do their best impression of Dave Attell you know that's the best example that someone gave me of like the comparison there there's there's a style of communicating that a lot of them have adopted to try to appear and you can tell

that they're coached they're trying to appear Presidential she's just that's who she is man I've hung out with her off camera on camera I've seen her just the way she communicates with people now I don't know her down to the bone but what I see I'm very impressed with and she's developed her character over two tours of duty overseas again who volunteers who takes the stuff on this is the weird thing because I you know I really before covered I was in this Bernie yang tossie Mindset which is just what is the furball that I

can shove down the throat of the DNC to make the party fall apart under that Hillary Clinton overhang mm-hmm the weird thing is in an actual pandemic I am almost positive that she has the stuff yeah it may not be her year right she's only 38 he's only 38 yeah it might not be her year but but she'll get there but but how interesting that like when the [ __ ] hits the fan the person with The highest number of intersectional points maybe is actually the person that you want to lead on merit right but

they don't want her which is even more because they don't want her because she can't be bought and sold well that's it's really simple I think that you know we need to revisit some stuff which all of this anger and ferocity that we were using to stand up to social engineering invading the mainstream conversation I believe that kovat proves that it is Deadly mm-hmm that if your top concern is not appearing xenophobic people will die because you are functionally incompetent you've just lost 40 IQ points for nothing well that was the initial response to Trump's

the idea of shutting down flights from China people were furious and they were calling it racist well the the idea that you can put a negative sign in front of Donald Trump and form an opinion that if he's stupid then Whatever the reverse of what he does is smart right is itself moronic it's dangerous it's it's completely irresponsible and here's the weird thing and I said this to you on the phone the other day when we were talking the weird thing Joe is is that we are the actual adults in the room tulsi you me

that's a huge problem what that swapping me in with well that's what I'm trying to say but you but this is the problem which I think I get this Actually better than you which is you have a beautiful life and you recognize that part of it comes with humility of not thinking too much of yourself being self-deprecating all these thing I think that those are all to your credit it is also time to lead and if you believe that you having to break out of whatever mindset you're in could be the difference between you know

saving physicians lives and nurses lives you'd do it you would do it for sure for sure Okay well this thing is the flagship of pirate radio I mean this is samizdat for the world and the concept of Sam is that that that you would have truth that would circulate underground in the Soviet Union that would not be like you are seldom rebroadcast inside of like MSNBC or CNN except when they're like going after you well what's weird is Fox News rebroadcast me all the time well because Fox there to sort of Dominant narratives Fox News

is the flagship inside the right-of-center gated institutional narrative and then you have all the other organs like MSNBC CNN NPR BuzzFeed you know whatever these things are in the left of center gated institutional narrative very often Fox will pick up on things that we do if they stick it in the eye of the left yeah that's exactly and so the point is is that they selectively amplify us and that process of selective amplification Is itself dangerous lot like I get invited more frequently by Fox and people and I turn them down because the narrative inside

of like the New York Times is well he's part of that right way thing frequent foxnews contributor Eric Weinstein oh that's the adjective occupation name yes frequent adjective foxnews contributor my occupation and then my name that game like if NPR would call and put me on I Would go on Fox but the the they're very clever game is to make it sound like oh well you're choosing to go no you guys are choosing to ignore a lot of what's changing the culture and they're therefore the only people who are willing to ask us on and

rebroadcast us are the people who are angry at the NPR cnn's MSNBC's well i think they realized the limitations of their medium i really do i think that CNBC NBC and MSNBC and CBS and NBC and ABC they all realize That they're in this really weird situation where they have to do these seven-minute segments interrupted by commercials they they have a restriction they can only air at you know but whatever time of night the show is supposed to be scheduled and you know they rely on these internet clips to sort of carry the show I

mean the the YouTube clips are probably far more popular than anything they ever released that's on the air what that that I mean That their distribution thing is [ __ ] it's very it's very bizarre and it was very interesting watching Bill Maher sit down here he was like I guess this is it the man cave like yeah good to see you bill he's like I'm here to grovel and ask whether you'll come on my show no he was trying to force me on his show hey no very little problem he's not a growler no

but he's a strong armor well what he is is he's caught and he's caught between two tectonic plates he is The closest thing we have inside of the beast in some sense to what we're doing maybe yeah he's a comic he is a comic but he's also you know he he's a guy with real courage yes and he's in a very tough I think he's in weirdly the toughest spot of us all well he's a guy who's on the Left also who thinks that a lot of the stuff as do as I do and as

you do as well a lot of stuff that's perpetrated by the people on the left is not just Dain But it's it's it empowers the right and empowers Trump support is it gets people on the fence to give up and and jump right and and get welcomed yo I've stopped being nice to these people it can't be no it's just you so much buffoonery it's and it's like it's it's psychotically dangerous to watch people continue the buffoonery in life and death situations yeah yeah no I agree and Bill's their honor you gonna brush on have

you done I'll do it eventually I'm sure yeah the only options that he gave me at gigs booked I see I I think that it's really important to use I mean I don't know him at all but to the extent that that was a beachhead to connect these two universes my model of this is that we've got this traditional legacy world and we've got this sort of Internet world that hovers above it and in general the insulating layer between them is astounding at this late date the number of things that Happened on the internet that

don't really have any echo inside of the mainstream is astounding in 2020 and then you get these arcs that happen between the two so for example the famous Sam Harris interaction with Ben Affleck on Bill Maher show yeah it was an arcing between these two universes I was also a guy on steroids that was roid raging at a guy who actually knows what he's talking about I mean he was preparing for Batman okay did the math On that all right but then that's why he was so angry but then Kathy Newman and Jordan Peterson was

another arcing where Kathy was playing the role of Ben Affleck Jordan Peterson not really know she what she was doing she was trying to get away with this same strategy that she is lazy to generate exactly for this sort of general boxing and categorizing them someone's opinions that don't really represent they're represent their actual opinions so what you're trying to Say so what you're saying to me Joe is that I have absolutely no point in my worth as human beings should never visit your shows that were saying what you're trying to say so what I

am trying to say is that in a generalized sense she was just doing that same old same old yeah and with with a person who is not participating I sort of like in the it's also that these people that they would victimized by putting them into these narratives Right that and they're accustomed to using these patterns these people traditionally did not have any other way to respond right there was no internet clips that were released a letter to the editor well on page 25 yeah and maybe they would print a retraction I mean this is

standard standard behavior for some newspapers and some journalists right the unscrupulous ones unfortunately but this this model doesn't work anymore Because anyone can go on YouTube and instantly say my time on the Kathy Newman show this is what went wrong and this is why she did this and this is what they told me in the green room and this is what and then you lay it out sort of sort of you know here's I mean let's play with it maybe you're right maybe you're wrong I don't know my take on it is that the great

thing about we have we have an ability to do almost anything we want on YouTube so long as We don't get shut down let's say that however you also have this concern that as long as this world remains gated if for example you have a closed world of people who are pretending to have conversations amongst themselves discussing the issues and then you have the institution say we're only going to deal with the authoritative sources then the problem is is that if you have a state of pretend you know LARPing or kayfabe whatever you want to

call it Yeah it's taking place inside the gated institutional narrative the institutions are going to predicate their actions on the official nonsense and whatever we do on YouTube as long as there is an insulating layer unless we can actually lob something into the wall you know over the walls of the Citadel they will continue to actually act as if we'd never said anything we never pointed it out it's like you're at this kid's magic show which the musician the magician is Completely incompetent and the lights are on and you can see all the wires and

trapdoors and the magic show continues to go on and so you may make the point well everybody can see that it's [ __ ] but as long as the institutions agree to pretend that they believe the [ __ ] we have a real problem than the internet that didn't solve that it's like the internet might not have solved it sorry to interrupt I think what it has Done is severely erode the foundation of it to the point where the trust in it is just there's no real mainstream anymore like this idea that the mainstream news

is the mainstream well how is that real if YouTube videos get more views like if you if you make a YouTube video and it gets 5 million views but then something goes on MSNBC gets 500,000 views yeah what's mainstream well what is mainstream now we're talking about instead of mainstream media I think the Term traditional media is the best way the same way the term like legacy but keep going legacies good okay well look for the longest time people had to use Morse code right and then they figured out phones and as Morris code guys

were [ __ ] right what did you do what you know and then phones were attached to cords yeah but I don't know here is there's still phone no but there's still a function unfortunately to the so I love the point that you're Making I'm just trying to figure how to play with it let's assume if there is no mainstream left what we're really talking about is legacy institutional media yeah and the great danger is that assume that the mainstream completely exits the building and it's only you know 10,000 people trading [ __ ] amongst

themselves but they also control all the institutions so like you the world gets to keep reality mm-hm and we the institution's Agree to traffic in [ __ ] you can make lots of jokes at our expense but we're also going to be figuring out whether work in a stock masks or what our farming policy is or how the US military should be deployed and where we should send troops to protect oil fields and all these kind of things and that's what's concerning me is is that a lot of us are settling for being right and

having them look like idiots and their point is okay fine we'll continue on We'll look like idiots but we also still control the levers so with legacy media your your assertion is that legacy media has a much more impactful presence in terms of foreign policy in terms of dealing with pandemic the response sings along those lines let's play with it and see where it goes okay if you think about Wikipedia Wikipedia might have a rule that says we allow we don't do original research so please link to authoritative Sources and you say okay great what

are authoritative sources yeah so now the authoritative source is the CDC or the WH o or the Surgeon General or the New York Times or CNN or MSNBC like if you have this but is n MSNBC like if someone just goes on on the air and let's have a little something see is that an authoritative source or wouldn't it be like an expert in Hell to someone who's gone over peer-reviewed studies someone who is well who's the Surgeon General Right now I don't know CDC is that red field I don't know I'm sure he's a

competent physician I also think that there's a whole thing about pretending that masks don't work masks don't work in the general population please don't buy them our health care people need them there's our they're tiny well that's what they've been saying right and so the issue is that you have some piece of nonsense so the the original piece of nonsense because the California is now changing their recommendation and saying if you're going out in public it's not just nonsense its deadly nonsense it's deadly physician killing nonsense I mean I'm trying smiles everyone smiles yeah yeah

I mean what we have is a situation in which we knew that the masks and personal protective equipment supplies are wildly off to say nothing of ventilators and ICU beds and now what do we do about it so we have rules like Please don't bring masks to work because it scares the patients or please don't wear homemade masks because they might actually be more germ filled or virus filled so you're back propagating what you wish to be true to get the action that you're looking for what we have is a prisoner's dilemma or if everybody

runs and buys up masks ooh like the people we need to be protected most are the heroes who are actually dealing with you know multiple Patience and taking huge amounts of viral load so there's no question in my mind that those those are the people that is a society if you would level with us like there's a speech to give which would go like this you know my fellow Americans as readiness are I am forced to tender my resignation effective of Friday this week I have failed to heed many of the warnings in our academic

literature because our reserves are severely depleted it is Imperative that we not suffer further loss of life and therefore I am forced to make an unusual request having failed you I'm asking everyone who stockpiled masks for personal use to think about doing something sacrificial for the good of us all our heroes are currently exposed to the coronavirus and taking huge amounts of viral load and I'm asking you to donate any unused masks that you have to this population as we are desperately trying to replenish our Stocks please continue to shelter in place and recognize that

the benefit to you is minor and the benefit to us all is major and this will be following your heroic impulse to bring us back together as a nation first of all is there a readiness azar no okay second of all no one's gonna say that they're never gonna admit that if they're gonna say we are tell justing I know Cour we're adjusting or firing the Dacians basin of all new no Joe I am I'm gonna be completely unreasonable I know I have this mode where I just I can become completely unreasonable go ahead this

is if that's where we are then it's time to ruble revolt how I don't know well we need people's if it's civil civil disobedience like to put our health care people I mean I have not been off my property for weeks the reason I'm here in part is to do what little I can and is very little to support the people who we who Are our literal heroes our life-and-death putting their cell themselves in harm's way the idea of how hospital administrators abusing our physicians and nurses makes me apoplectic with rage the fact that these

people are told that they can't talk to the press and they write to me and they're their family and the children write to me my mother was asked to do this my uncle works in a prison he's not allowed to wear masks he's not allowed To bring a mask I send a mask blah blah blah yeah there's a lot of those stories okay what the hell is wrong it is time for these people to resign and it is time for us to remember that we have the ability to turn over our own government this is

we are so unprepared as a nation and we have been sold out for so long by our self-appointed leadership class who nobody wants that we either remember who we are and how this game is played I mean this is like this is a pre-war Footing and this can easily lead to war the transmission mechanism is you have everybody stay indoors because you're worried about deaths of accountability which is you know I don't think they're worried about the number of deaths I think they're worried about deaths that the results from triage and that would result in

career-ending action yeah this is what you were saying on the phone do you think that's really what's bothering them yes and then but if we all have to Stay home while they replenish our supplies then the economy goes into recession and recession can become depression depressions lead to armed conflict in armed conflict leads to war that would be a transmission mechanism from these stupid masks to stop something that nobody can handle and my it here's the thing we are coming up on Passover and we Jews have a tradition that I wish everybody had which is

that we read one stupid Story every goddamn year just to drill it into your head to make sure it's always fresh and this is when it's time to leave when it's time to change don't wait for the bread to rise this is what I say to every Jewish person like you're sitting around waiting for the bread to rise because they all know the story which is you eat the goddamn matzah because the people who waited for the bread to rise are no longer with us and their Descendants are no longer with us and it is

time to revolt this leadership class is unworkable the reason that you and I both came to the word tulsi instantly I don't think you took much deliberation is because tulsi would know what to do well she's also the least encumbered yeah she's at least burdened by everybody in the system hates her yeah you know in the whole point where she would put heads on pikes yeah this is The moment for heads on pikes and it's important it's not a vengeance thing the the importance is what is the cost to you killing people by failing to

heed the academic literature if a supply was was depleted and you didn't replenish it what is the cost to you well there's lessons in how other countries have viewed this and how they chose to act particularly South Korea right South Korea acted quicker smaller population than us but a much more Impact to the virus they shut things down very quickly yeah yeah Singapore I don't know how Singapore very very interesting I think that they you know they use surveillance and tracking and you know making sure that they visited anybody was known I mean they had

a different system and as people who like you and me who loved our civil liberties I believe that in part Singapore's draconian society lives off of things that only we can do due to our freedom So you have to realize that freedom is itself an export and one of the great dangers is is that China has been exporting the benefits of freedom from the United States into an authoritarian system so that they get the benefits of both worlds they get the benefits of our middle finger which I think is the secret of American innovation and

they get the benefits of authoritarianism where they can do things that we can't because they can order people to do the Unconscionable so my feeling is I'm on Team civil liberties and team civil liberties has to be somewhat nationalistic more militaristic more commanding control like who would you take orders from so in a lot of fields I'd take orders from you you're the big dog in this space you know and to the extent that you wanted to coordinate something I would use my channel I would subordinate to you and I would want sometimes people disobey

to me if I have If I was taking a lead on something important when we have this fear of leadership because we're all so individualistic that we never want to take an order like whenever I'm training a new assistant or something what am i always best practices is can I get you coffee you know it's very important to show that the ability to ask to serve somebody else and the ability to lead are tied you have to be a follower to be A leader and a leader to be a follower you can't you shouldn't be

one of the other we need right now a more war we need more of a war footing we need a war president we need we need war senators we need people of this mentality because the nap is coming to an end and I do think Nancy Pelosi needs to resign and Bill DeBlasio needs to resign I think that this administration you know made some good moves and fumbled the ball and I believe that past administration's Made some good moves and fumbled the ball and the imperative is to stop back propagating what you want to have

what you want us to do like defeat a prisoner's dilemma and come up with a lie that would cause us to act selfishly rationally like if you tell me that a mask is actually more dangerous in my hands because it becomes germ filled then the idea is like oh okay so I guess I won't use the mask well yeah because you lied to me And the idea is that that's what you're trying to do your finger you're trying to say what would need to be true to get you to do what I want I don't

understand what you're saying about these masks what are you saying so if I say for example let's imagine that I don't want to put seat belts in cars okay and I say you know Joe a seat belt could trap you should your car go into the water off of a bridge you could in fact die from the seat belt because you'd become entangled It would not be able to save yourself the right but the problem with that analogy is seat belts actually do save lives on but is it is it possible that they're just acting

poorly with this mask thing but that masks actually can contain a lot of viruses and they can see bones can kill you but do you believe that's what I'm trying to do I'm trying to say it as a related great problem let's talk about everybody who gets sick and dies from contaminated Masks everybody who gets sick and dies from I feel a false feeling of safety let's just go through a huge list about every time saying I see the intervention and now the idea is think about all the lives saved because of masks both in

terms of transmission which I don't coffin you a coffin masks or in terms of I don't breathe in either aerosolized or droplets whatever blah blah blah and now the two are real but you're focusing on like the seatbelt Deaths of entanglement right because you actually have a covert agenda and like and you would I think their covert agendas oh I don't know exactly but if you if I had to speculate I go like it go like this one were terrified of triage deaths deaths that occurred simply because we didn't have enough resources that were mandated

to be stockpiled or talked about in the literature that's one thing there's liability then there's liability which Is oh we were following the Surgeon General's recommendation at the time now somebody suddenly found you know like all the masks in the world I think that the Surgeon General would suddenly say the science has become conclusive mmm because there would no longer be a worry about liability you would just get those masks that people you'd get the masks to the people who need them and then you'd stop transmission you'd slow transitions transmissions by you think there's also

A lot of just figuring it out as they go along what's going on there is figuring this out as it goes along as regards to masks I believe that everybody knows that masks save lives on balance they know that the people who need the most have very weird rules there's this whole thing about the states versus the federal government there's this issue about price gouging and price mechanisms there are all sorts of things stopping the mask problem from being sorted out In it one of which is the number of masks that are produced in China

and the fact that we may have sent masks and personal protective equipment to China so there's a huge issue of accountability and responsibility and that we're back propagating our response how much are we quarantine and how much would we lock down what are we saying about about what why the physicians are being told not to wear masks when they're seeing patients I mean I'm Talking about deadly nonsense deadly structural nonsense and if people like you and me don't call this out using like these channels that we have then the the narrative just stands and so

partially what we're doing is a parallel sense-making operation to the standard media which is uh Twitter said we will now be removing tweets if you contradict official authoritative health sources so that's just what I did Surgeon General's lying CDC's lying wh o is lying come at me do you think they're lying yes but what why do you think they're lying well give me a specific example why you feel like they're lying well for example you saw this interaction with the was it Hong Kong TV asking about the wh Oh about Taiwan yeah that was insane

well explain that because it's [ __ ] and saying it was insane to watch first of all he pretended the head of the W-h-o pretended he didn't hear them and then he had them say it again first of all he moves like yes you can see his hand yes I go to cut off the connection he hung up he said I couldn't hear she's okay I'll repeat the question he's like no let's go on to the next one well why would he want to go to the next one if he didn't hear it come on

yeah I don't even have here's the point we are so afraid to explain what he did to people that don't know because people Are listening here and there was asked about the Taiwanese response yes to the covet epidemic and he didn't want to say Taiwan because China claims that Taiwan is part of China and because China exercises so much influence over the whu-oh he wanted to say some very general thing which is like I think all provinces of China have been doing an excellent yeah that's a different country Taiwan because there's a dispute so what

do you think China's most Interested in China PTIN the People's Republic of China the Communist China Communist Chinese want no recognition of their existing something called Taiwan and why does the World Health Organization give in to that well how do how do different nations get control of things you know we have influence at the UN and we've caused the UN to do things that are America centric you know other countries have influence and you do this by being on particular Committees rotating directorships who pays the cost I don't know how the w-h-o seems to be

so enmeshed with China and I don't want to a pine about these things because I want to keep my voice right but it spoke volumes to watch that guy do that and do that little dance try to avoid saying time while my entire life looks like that interviewed I mean I hate to say it this way but my relationship with Authority and my big critique is is that this is the generic Expectation across almost all institutions now they are all serving bizarre goals because growth is what gave us our independence and when we became less

innovative and we or the innovations dried up and we couldn't grow our way into new things the number of people who could use their middle finger effectively and say I'm steering this at this organization to do the right thing and then this is my bet and we're gonna go forward those people as a Class were removed if you think about like what do you do with Churchill when there isn't a world war two to win it's very uncomfortable like what would he open a drycleaner we don't know you have you have special people who really

only shine when there's an emergency there's a guy named Jay Prakash and Orion in India was very important he was one of the sort of founding fathers of modern India and after India Indian independence was achieved lots of the People who'd been founding fathers went to the next phase where they became like they enriched themselves they did standard political things to gain power in the system he was the one guy who sort of stayed true to the revolutionary spirit and bizarrely when Indira Gandhi created a state of emergency which was a disaster in India the

people said well who can we turn to in a dark time and oddly I guess Prakash means light so there was this phrase Like in the darkness there is one light Jai Prakash driver - hi Prakash they turned to the one guy who'd become the patron saint of causes because he never broke faith with the revolutionary spirit and he's get he gets called up once but he's incredibly important because everybody knows in a dark time who they can trust right that's a very important parallel to where we are now who are the break glass in

case of emergency people yeah when You when you watch the people that are talking in these presidential addresses there's none of those I don't see any break glass I mean this foul Qi guy is obviously an expert in diseases and he's a doctor and he's trying to do his best to lay out the ground rules of what we need to do and what this looks like over the next couple of months but but it's like Jaco willing you know like Jaco is not telling you don't worry you don't have to change your routine you can

get Up at 9:30 just do a little bit just a little bit there's like discipline equals freedom I'm up at 4:30 what are you doing in bed it's time for discipline well because he's a military guy and military people don't have any room for [ __ ] they don't even some military people's love know people like seals they don't have any room for fluff well because you have to be able to perform well okay so then in that situation so [ __ ] your feelings get up At 4:30 that's that's how they feel that's what

I'm trying to sell those you can just do a little bit and that's great that's great you guys are enforcing mediocrity but that's and that's what I'm trying to get at which is yeah we have a situation where we know if you have two trainers and one of them is doing that don't worry and the other want to say not gonna lie to you you're gonna be sore you're gonna be miserable this isn't Gonna be fun which do you choose some people will go with the former yeah they like to stay fat it's a lot

of that out there okay mediocrity is a very comforting thing I hear you yeah it's [ __ ] look it's hard it's hard to be that 4:30 in the morning guy some days that alarm goes off he's got to be like [ __ ] this man well you know that Jocko doesn't live that 24/7 yes he does no he may live it he may live it 18 six Nobody lives at 20 Lee you remember that thing he did about the cake at a birthday party there was a delicious piece of cake in front of me

I struggled to come to I succumb to temptation yeah but I'm telling you man that doesn't even mean anything that goes through that [ __ ] blast furnace of a bomb but I'm saying nobody's 24/7 on the table he's a fake weakness yeah he'll give in to a 4-minute weakness yes super mortal like They're disappearing to make you sort of commiserate with him he's appearing that oh I have some feelings too I eat cake yeah well it doesn't tell you see you probably went down to his [ __ ] dungeon basement every cake did squats

for an hour look I believe that there's people that are really that guy yeah he's one of those those people he's really that guy he's that guy all the time I spent a lot of time with Jocko okay he's that guy but that's because He's then I won't see okay I want but I want one of those people right now important right now yeah those guys are important and we have to clean out these up this class of people that put up with each other it's like the reason they put up with each other and

they don't like indict each other or sue each other in each other is is that they're all the same you know and that was the key skill for between 35 and 50 years which is knowing what not to say to upset the Institutional applica well that is politics and that's one of the things that disgust people about it and that's one of the things that one of the reasons why Donald Trump actually got into office yes people looked at him as an antidote I mean that's that's right clean up the swamp drain the swamp that's

him well that's what they thought they thought this is maybe she might bring in his own swamp but he was against their swamp exactly yeah exactly And then Bernie Sanders has his own kind of swamp he's got a different kind of swamp you know everyone's got their own swamp it's like what what is your particular pattern that you would like to push you know what has got you to the dance you know sorry I'm laughing but Barry Weiss was sitting here she's just like had so Joe what do you think you'll vote for and then

you called me up you like Eric what did I just do I think you might have just swung the election Well the wrong way or the right way old thing look the Joe Biden being the main guy is the only reason why they went after Bernie Sanders and went after me I mean the whole idea was just to reinforce the idea that Bernie Sanders is making poor choices by connecting to him to someone who says [ __ ] up things when he's trying to be funny yeah you know and you put it in print with

some quotations behind it in like wow this guy's awful you know everything out of Context is awful and what they're trying to do without a doubt is the same thing we're talking about the guy who's willing to dance with them which is Joe Biden the guy who's the the professional politician which they don't give a [ __ ] if he can barely talk they don't give a [ __ ] if he forgets what he's saying halfway in the conversation but this is the whole thing about the gated institutional narratives age the key issue and I

learned this one I used to Do immigration stuff in Washington during the 90s I learned this concept of steady hands this is like one of the most terrifying phrases ever so I told you I think at some point that in New York whenever people are deciding to do a bad thing to screw people over they always use the phrase it's a beautiful thing meaning that you can extract money from people who have noticed no say in the matter in Washington his financial circles are yeah yeah New York financed so whenever you hear the phrase it's

a beautiful thing it means somebody is being raped - right yeah in Washington the phrase that I learned to fear is steady hands he's a pair of steady hands that means you can count on him to do the wrong thing in an emergency to keep everybody on the inside okay and there's like a separate system for promoting the people who do the wrong thing and making sure because everybody inside is super dependent on Somebody burning all of their credibility in public steady hands oh yeah me that's the main hope of this free information society that

all of these disgusting practices these legacy practices can I supposed well here's the weird thing when Amy Klobuchar dropped out I was like a baby boomer born in the let me say 61 something like that every one remaining was born in the 1940s Elizabeth Warren was the youngest then You had like Mike Bloomberg Bernie Sanders Joe in Donald Trump everyone was like born between 41 and 49 now all of those people would be the oldest president all of them the oldest president added inauguration like we've lost our mind this is normal to us this isn't

really commented upon that you would have five four five septuagenarians vying for the presidency of the United States it's pretty crazy but we just leave the Evidence is the clearest with Joe Biden right yeah because he's showing actual real deterioration but we've seen deterioration from Trump particularly earlier in the first year or two of his term needs some spectacular videos of him falling apart where he can couldn't enunciate words he grant couldn't say words correctly while he's speaking to the country his tongue was like swollen in his throat it was very strange right but people

think of that is maybe a Substance issue like he goes up and he goes down and sometimes he catches it on the wrong part of the wave and that's when he's in front of the camera and he you know he struggles through it but he literally can't pronounce words but then he'll bounce back and they'll be fine Joe Biden's not bouncing back you know whether he has an aversion to the same sort of supplements that Donald's using I don't know I don't know what's going on yes here's these episodes in Consistent sometimes he seems fine

and then sometimes he seems like he's completely lost and you know I learned about this it was very uncomfortable for me I was watching stefan molyneux and mike Tsarevich going on and on about Hillary's health mmm-hmm and I was just thinking these guys are actually weirdly making sense on this topic and I've never really interacted with stefan molyneux at all and it sort of scares me I don't really want him in my life but Didn't mean that he wasn't right and he wasn't being courageous and saying it and then when Donna Brazile I think came

out later and said yeah there were real concerns about Hillary's health all along well she was fainting yeah wherever you lose consciousness that's a good we don't know what it was that she was doing but what I'm trying to get at would be that we are dependent on these people that we are told are trolls as the free people and I Remember Orwell talking about the proletariat where the proletariat was weirdly free and the central people were the ones who had no freedom I saw this also in the fall of the Soviet Union I had

family in Moscow and Kiev and in Chernov see that we discovered right at the end of the Soviet Union and I went over the visit and I remember preparing for that visit I called up these people and Chernov see right near Moldova and the extreme west of the Ukraine and I Said you know is that a speech in like hello and I hear the voice and the other end of the phone was like the time when long-distance phone calls were still romantic and they hear Shalom welcome and I'm realizing that these are young people are

still speaking Yiddish they don't give a [ __ ] about anything because they're not important they're not in Moscow they're not in st. Petersburg they're on the periphery and there's a measure of freedom that comes from just Not being central and right you can communicate freely and you can think freely is anyone in legacy meeting media talking openly on any of these shows about Biden's deterioration I don't know you know Tucker Carlson is another person to watch who is freer he's free of Fox he's able to go against Fox yeah I'm looking at Greg Gutfeld

I don't know what Greg has been saying but there are a small number of interesting people who are still housed inside of the of The belly of the beast and I don't know if you hear my heard my theory about the rebel end of corporate law corporate end of rebel no so you and I I think would be sort of well at least I'm wearing a jacket I would be the corporate end of rebel okay yeah you might be the rebel end of rebel I don't know you're you're faking being the rebel in that you're

pretty sick yeah what am i payin what well look at all to be in the rebel and of rebel those tattoos obviously wash Off and you put you just apply them every day but the Corp the rebel end of corporate would be like Barry Weiss okay yeah right so she's she's in the belly of the beast but she's pushing the edge Bill Maher would would straddle corporate end of rebel rebel end of corporate unclear hmm right and so there is an important partnership across this if you think about you remember the film Inglourious Basterds did

you like that well sure Loved okay lieutenant aldo rey is this interface between regular army and the psychotic jews who will kill Nazis given any opportunity and you need people who interface between like the bad boys and the regular units and these are incredibly important what is the plural of nexus necks i i don't know we got into trouble the first time with octopus octopi no it's actually octopus the the recommended one is octopi DS spelled Spelled octopodes really yeah whoa but I've seen octopi yeah what people people use awk they use octopuses octopi they're

this plural form of Nexus is Nexus or Nexus okay oh boy Jaime with the win how weird that it's either or that it could just be Nexus the plural form of Nexus is that makes sense I guess so these Nexus yes are used to it are incredibly important and we have to keep them up and I'm worried about the corporate or The rebel end of corporate because these corporations are starting to realize that their need for kayfabe is just far exceeding kayfabe kayfabe kayfabe is carnival speak for the word fake and when catch wrestling devolved

into professional wrestling you know about all that that's very interesting yeah that's that's a weird well that's obscure to catch wrestling no carnival wrestling actually Jamie could you bring up the word kayfabe in Weinstein can you Name any people that were involved in catch wrestling the real catch wrestling how far do you go with this well there you know farmer Burns was farmer Burns farmer burn no famous catch wrestling guy used to do a hangman's drop his neck was so strong new surround it and drop six feet and hang there so when by the way

if you want to read a great book on professional wrestling I would highly recommend the book ringside which talks About the evolution so what I call KK fabrication okay is the transition of something that is usually has twin attributes is very dangerous and very boring so old-style wrestling was incredibly dangerous I mean people would you know be crippled from about so as a result they would often just like circle each other and not really engage and like wars like this mostly war is extremely boring and then you know obviously can be quite deadly So in

order to routinize these things we create kayfabe which is the system of stratified lies that professional wrestling is under graded by so you you know what do you know what a worked shoot is yes okay what's a work to shoot well a shoot is an actual fight and a worked shoot like a work is a fake fight right so like if two guys were pretending to fight and there was there's actually there was an issue I should so just to lay this all Out in Japan there there's an extremely admiration for professional wrestling and professional

wrestlers would get into mixed martial arts and they would get into mixed martial arts with varying levels of actual commitment so some of them would get into mixed martial arts and have fake fights this is like pride yes exactly pride and some of pride actually was founded by Hicks and Gracie who was as legit as a man has ever lived and Takata who was a famous professional Wrestler and Hickson [ __ ] up Takata in a real fight he only would have real fight who was the Gracie killer who came out of Japan that's Sakuraba

oh sorry yeah Sakuraba he well he's a phenomenal catch wrestler right anyway I don't want to blow you of course his his he came from I believe Karl Gotch and Billy Costello and I think that's the name of the gentleman there was a bunch of people who taught him catch wrestling so his Style was submission oriented catch wrestling he had he had like both like he you know he was involved in professional wrestling as well but he was a legit fighter anyway the point was there was a weird blurring of the lines and there were

some fights like Mark Coleman had a fight with Takata where it was really clear that Mark Coleman got paid to take a dive because Mark Coleman should have smashed that dude and he gets caught his heel hook he Doesn't tap he's gonna tap then he winds up tapping it was like whoa and he he tap but everyone watching that knows fighting was like get the [ __ ] out of here what is happening here oh my god it's a fake fight and it could have been a Content so there was fake fights mixed in with

real fights right it was pretty common pretty common we decide and this is what happened in the transition in the early 20th century between catch wrestling and professional wrestling is That you you start doping reality with fakeness and the thing I was asking about the work shoot it has to do with the layering of nonsense and reality so the idea is that you have something which is ostensibly fake then you have a breaking of kayfabe ostensibly which is the chute on top of the expected work but a work shoot is tertiary in that the shoot

is in self fake and so work shoot is a tertiary deception it's a fake fight that appears real it's a fake real Fight that appears to break out of a fake thing that is pretending to know maybe it's quaternary you know the brain can't go much beyond four levels of lies right and so you had a famous storyline I can't remember who it was where a wrestler was apparently supposedly having an affair with another wrestlers wife and that was the storyline so the people who write those these things are called Booker's so the Booker's had

come up with this storyline and then the Affair became real because the brain couldn't sort of manage all of the deception sometimes you so the two people actually gather because they were supposed to hang out and pretend right now like let's just do this [ __ ] right and so you know oddly I was fascinated by the moment where Vince McMahon declared I think to the New Jersey sporting commission he made this unbelievable Ike one of the great moments in the 20th century I think he Realized that he was gonna be taxed into oblivion and

so we had a choice should he get should he pay this tax or do something really bold and he went in front of them he said you realize that everything we do is fake now that could have completely toppled the wrestling world the admission that there was no reality to this was a potential death blow so he said this is all staged all the fights are nothing that the winners are known in advance You can't tax us because we aren't actually a sport and you don't have any jurisdiction over us and then it turned out

nobody cared right and so the interesting thing is that the youth used to have this concept of ass mark a mark as somebody who doesn't know they're being conned a smart mark or smart is somebody who knows that they're being conned and still continues to play so in some sense it was the bet that you could take all the marks and turn them into Smarts and the business empire would continue and you wouldn't have to pay the tax so I was hanging out as what does with Hulk Hogan and I was trying to check whether

or not this was true and he said to me Eric you realized who came up with that strategy me so I was like what he says yeah I was the one who said that we should do you believe him I don't know it's hard to tell well that's the whole point okay yeah that's where it gets weird did you ever see the Interview where John Stossel is accusing a professional wrestler of it being fake so he decided to smack him in the head and ask him if that was fake it's really horrific because he dropped

he ruptured his eardrum means this is an enormous man I forget the guy it ruined the guy's career the guy who is the wrestler but he he hits him with an open hand I mean it's an enormous Oh full blast hits him on the head with his this open hand and drops him he goes was that fake Who was that fake get up [ __ ] and he goes that fake and he hits him again and drops him again was that fake well okay let's talk about this I don't think professional wrestling is fake what

the [ __ ] are you saying well I know what you're saying yeah yeah I mean these guys this is it this is the guy well play it so we can hear what he's saying okay we'll get we'll get into trouble here with YouTube but he hits him in the side of the head and then he Hits him again it's dr. D I think dr. death or something that [ __ ] him up right is that him right there it is that the guy now Jesus Christ time is a cruel [ __ ] is that

the same guy is that him Jesus Christ yeah legendary wrestler bounty hunter and author of don't call me fake dr. David Schultz goes into detail about the fashion arrests missed twenty twenty incident where he slapped John Stossel look he's got a t-shirt on it about it And everything Jesus Christ it's his whole life now yeah well that's his it's his moment it's not fake no it means artist rated it's the results are known in advance the death rate of those guys is like nothing else you'd have to look like wingsuit flyers to see people who

died at the level that professional wrestlers do that the punishment that they take and weirdly the skill level I Hulk Hogan put me in a headlock why did you let him do that Did you ever see what he did to Richard Belzer oh look I'm sorry I know that he's said and done bad things but there is so much love that comes pouring out of Hulk Hogan and I agree brother he's a great guy but he put Belzer sleep on his television show and Belzer fell him bounced his head off the ground Hulk Hulk had

me in a headlock and I know that if that guy had so much as sneezed my head would have just popped off of my trunk right I mean that guy's a beast He's a huge man he's a huge man yeah you know he's lost like four inches of height because of all his back surgeries yeah yeah all right I first met him like way way way back in the day I ran into him I didn't meet him meet him I just ran into him on the street in Beverly Hills I was like holy [ __

] and then I interviewed him for Spike TV back in the day when Spike TV was they were doing professional wrestling on Spike TV and they wanted to me to Interview him while I was doing the UFC so I interviewing we had a fun time together but he was considerably smaller it was really interesting it's like that was just oh there's Belser so you put Bowser and what we would call a power guillotine and look Bowser's out cold right here right watch the left arm there it is alcohol so why'd she just dropped some that

could have killed him that part right there where he falls and he bangs his head off the ground like he Just dropped him like he was on a padded mat or something like that you really should never do that to someone but they don't worry about their self because they put themselves into so much danger thing yeah I mean these guys are the punishment kings of the world yeah and they're extremophiles in that sense now what what my belief is is that we are it's real in the sense that the injuries the death rate skill

levels and most of those guys could really fight they may Not be UFC level fighters but they Cal ah'd of them come out of you know wrestling backgrounds yes like legitimate a lot of our very very tough so in I think what was it in 2013 or 11 Jon Brockman asked the question what's the scientific theory that nobody knows that would make the biggest impact in people's cognitive toolkit and I just been allowed to answer this question along with like actual legitimate people and so I was kind of like being very Protective and my wife

said you know you could give a lot of answers that question but that's not the one you want to give Duke a Fabe like I had this theory that kayfabe was the most important psychological theory that nobody really appreciated that in some sense professional wrestling is lightyears ahead and understanding how the human mind actually works because of the issues of that deception and so I wrote up kayfabe which is going to Determine Wars and presidential elections and then sure enough Donald Trump comes directly out of WWE like he really understands if you look at that

fight with Vince McMahon yeah Donald Trump into its professional wrestling and it is a superpower Jamie can I ask you to bring up Weinstein in kayfabe and see if 2011 what scientific concept would improve everybody's cognitive toolkit Eric Weinstein so I thought it was going to Be thrown out and in turn in fact that turned out to be a very prophetic prophetic essay well for sure once Trump got into office I mean that is an excellent point of what he does is that there's a part of his appeal is that he's speaking in he's he's

like he's hitting a certain frequency that provides comfort and it narrows the boundaries of what's possible and puts things into some very digestible form that morons love you know I'm talking About I'm not saying that all people that are Trump supporters are morons there's people that support him economically but there's a lot of people that are morons that like him because he's talking in this frequency he's he's there's a narrow band he's not gonna say anything crazy that's like self-deprecating or introspective or he's not going to prepare you for the the great beyond or you

know include you in his concerns for The demise of civilization and Western values not that's not in him right right he's got a bandwidth he's got a very narrow band and inside that band he's the king ratings are tremendous tremendous everyone's doing a great job we're doing a great job he says these things that key they reinforced this sort of pro-wrestling sort of vibration somewhat I I have to admit that I don't meet many morons at all should come to Comedy Store more often let's back up I'll bring you out some more oh oh sure

Joe you don't even believe that I think that in general people when they are given no choice at all express themselves moronically when they're given no choice at all yeah I I want a choice of an actual president that's viable I don't have one so then you're gonna ask me well which which of the non-viable people do you like best well this is the this is the real issue with the Democratic Party they've essentially made us all morons yeah with this Joe Biden thing they really have morons who do we need I mean I never

vote for that guy I can't vote for him I can't vote for him I can't vote for Trump there I'd rather vote for Trump than him I don't think he could handle anything I mean you're relying entirely on his cabinet like we want to talk about a an individual leader that can communicate he can't do that and we Don't even know what the [ __ ] he's gonna be like after a year in office the pressure of being the president United States is something that no one has ever prepared for right the only one who

seems to be fine with it is Trump oddly enough I mean he hasn't seemed to be aging at all or any sort of decline you know Obama like almost immediately started looking older yeah George w almost immediately Scott I think that this is not a change in Trump like Trump In a weird way it's just always been this right performative you know like a fake alpha right he still plays golf all the time like isn't switched up monster I mean I'm sure he switched it up a little bit because of the pandemic because he's apparently

a germaphobe which is hilarious but this is this could be his demise you know he isn't that kind of hilarious yeah that might be what does him in the guys always been worried about germs apparently how does That work with his active extracurricular life I don't know I guess he wears condoms I wouldn't have Chyna I wouldn't have imagined stormy Daniels would be the person that he would have chosen first then it's just it's very strange there's a hot lady back in the day well it's not question of that it's just that she was also

an active one yeah if your if your key issue is transmission I mean I'm not judging anybody I'm just saying as a as A vector of communication yeah that's true that's a good question of course the porn industry weirdly has very high health standards at one level because it would have to right maybe that's his rationale that they're tested yeah that's interesting so I had Ashley Matthews on my program and I she was you know talking to me about cuz that was actually the woman behind Riley Reid Wow okay and how hilarious is that it's

like That's her pro-wrestling name yeah well and I don't know that she'd used her name fully until we were talking and I said that I really want it didn't want to interview Riley read I wanted to interview Ashley Matthews how'd that go what she was good I mean she it was a bit of a mismatch in but she is polite and sweet to a fault she's trying to be thoughtful I'd really admire her courage she doesn't want body body augmentation so she's got a Non-classical porn body she had I chose to do a transom because

it was erotic ly interesting to her even though she was told that it would kill her brand she doesn't necessarily sometimes she shaves her body here sometimes she doesn't okay so there's a lot of what she does that I think is incredibly admirable and I got to know of her because she came to a show that I did with ben shapiro and sam harris in san francisco and she was tweeting out that she was a huge Sam Harris fan and then I saw something she did where she was talking about it was impossible for her

to get banking and regular services as a pornographic actress and thank you yeah there's like a remember operation choke point no operation choke point was I think in a Bhama era Department of Justice initiative to try to make it very difficult to engage in legal occupations like payday lending and things or porn and so they were yeah so they would I Think they use the FDIC to harass credit card companies and banks into not making it easy for these people to gain access to ordinary services so I've been very concerned about the ways in which

the authoritarians attempt to regulate who can do what who can say what say what where get banking behave you know but so that's still going on to this day yeah there's a difficulty getting banking like she can't get I think MailChimp won't work With her because she's a pornographic actress in terms of mailing lists yeah and then there's like chargeback issues where marginal businesses you know people will cancel their credit cards but in fact if you're doing a business where very few people are cancelling the credit cards they'll still claim that they won't work with

you because of the risk of cancellation so there's this whole thing where we harass and in tax PayPal payouts no longer supported what Is this Jamie win systems blog yeah we're all devastated by PayPal's decision stop payouts to over a hundred thousand performers who rely on them for their livelihoods if you have PayPal as your payout option please select a new method and update your information in your model settings tab if you have a pending payment for October bla bla bla bla bla bla bla so this is because of porn canadianmom okay so this but

hold on a second is this prostitution is that Why this payout thing the believe that once upon a time Sam from the San Fernando Valley was the head of prostitution it's a head of pornographic acting and movie production because it couldn't be charged as prosecution now as prostitution yeah now Ashley makes the point that she's comfortable being called a commercial sex worker so in some sense prostitution adjacent mm-hmm but not prostitution and in to Your question about how did that go I was quite nervous about having a pornographic actress as a guest I did it

in fact right after Sir Roger Penrose so it was a wonder that one of the better transition I liked it thank you for my next trick the I think it's important that we talk about porn and I think it's important that if this is going to have a huge effect like dark matter you know you feel its gravitational Effect but nobody can actually see it because you can't talk about it right I think that it's absolutely imperative that we make more connection to Planet porn and talk about what's going on what does it say about

us and the ways in which you know they've got great data though with the way OkCupid has great data on what's going on in the world of courtship horn has great data on what's going on in the world of tank of kinky Neuroticism yeah and you know for example she pointed out that incest porn surges around the holidays when people are spending time with their families what Wow an incest porn is a chance as a cancer that I don't think we're even talking about that's gotten really really pronounced yeah well all taboo porns stepmom porn

you know that kind of stuff stepsister yeah there's there's something about I hear Yeah but there's something about those things that for people it's like there's so much porn that this is the last taboo the last taboo is your dad marries is hot lady and then your dad taboo I want you to have a good time with your mom I'm gonna go off golfing lilies and stop yeah you know you I think with your line you could do what Iran right you just did too at me what side the Sean Connery 1 i:r Airlift yeah

I could do one yeah yeah yeah Focus something about a line porn crossing of lines don't remember damn sorry what I wanted it I said you don't even smoke pot hardly I wanted to talk to you about one of your podcasts I listened to at least recently you listened traversal the O'Keefe podcast ok project Veritas go yeah that's a that's an interesting one because you had a really good point in that people when they hear that this is a project Veritas thing and for people don't know Who he is James O'Keefe from Project Veritas they've

they've done a lot of work exposing some biases that are held by some of the people that work in these social media groups is social media corporations like Twitter and Facebook and things like that yeah but the way they've done it is all through hidden-camera type stuff and there's a narrative that people love to use where they go oh that guy he uses selective editing or that guy you can't believe Anything everything he says is wrong but that is impossible impossible because you're listening to these people talking and they're talking about how they marginalize right-wing

viewpoints they look for people who have like manga and they're headlined and they put them in certain categories where make it makes it very difficult for people to get there there's stuff that the algorithm supports you know that they they know how to marginalize these Perspectives and these points of view and it's really weird that no one they've found this strange way of describing it where even though you see it on video you hear people say things that should be outrageous to anyone who believes in objective reality and yet people love to say that's just

a project Veritas thing and that guy's full of [ __ ] and they're always full of [ __ ] good and then they they cast it aside well I thank you for bringing that up The I another look I want to take risk and that was a huge risk yeah as far as the thing is that if you touch these worlds by the way can I try one of these CBD things yeah well they're not in the fridge this is the last one can get one tell Jeff to get some some of the CBD kill

cliffs they're very addictive I'm gonna warn you right now all right 25 milligrams CBD okay I have a friend who cannot come to the United States ever because he attempted to come in with Some CBD which is not such a I shut the [ __ ] up for me from the UK come on he can't come in the US ever I believe they can't appeal that and now the CBD is legal well his mom is Amanda fielding do you know who Amanda Fielding yes do you love Amanda feeling no explain who Amanda Fielding is Amanda

fielding the countess Amanda fielding is the head of the Beckley foundation for the scientific study of psychedelic and related substances in the UK who I think Believe works with Imperial College she's an older lady right oh yeah and she's a she's self trepanned right so she's right you told me about yeah she's put two holes in her skull and her husband Lord Jamie there's the Earl Jamie maybes Earl - Earl Jamie I'm sorry I don't know these things okay he's trip and as well oh great and they're - they are two of the most lovely

learned wonderful people in the world what's the benefit of self Trepidation her pollination in general oh Jesus Christ there's a video of her doing it yeah I think it's called something like a hole in my head what is that it looks like she did it with a stick yeah or something she did it herself she had her own tools why did she do that first of all when you are British aristocracy this is what you do no you don't yes you do you go on vacation no no no this lady's crazy Jesus Christ Look at

that [ __ ] hole she put in her head so she drilled right through her skull yeah all right no the reason she did it and I think it's an interesting one oh please Joe come on don't be judgmental the belief that she had was is that her brain your brain expands to fill your brain case and that when it runs into a hard stop that the blood circulation has changed and that when the blood circulation changes you lose that sparkling clarity That comes from your sort of childhood and so if you if you remember

how clear the world was when you were a kid her belief was by relieving the pressure from the brain case that you actually get a kind of permanent upgrade in your cognition and the level at which you're experiencing all of reality is that true I don't know I'm not self Japan I have not well till the old man did she say that this was like an effective method I think both she and Jamie say that it's Been very positive don't [ __ ] out of here with that this is a different flavour we got a

great flavor 25 milligrams that's crazy though so this guy is permanently barred cheer sir yeah permanent be permanently barred from the United States yeah because of that DVD yeah on psychoactive right maybe they just knew his mom was a nut job that trolls whole she's not a nut job she was I made up the one who changed my mind about psychedelics she changed them yeah I was a totally I was totally opposed to the wish I was there to show you the dumb without having a hole in your head I I said Randy you've been

taking LSD regularly since the late 60s I said well how is it that you seemed to be completely all there really doesn't have any negative effects and well I'm trying to race through the story rather than me yeah perfectly accurate Jesus I said Then what did we get wrong in the sixties and she said oh dosages I said what do you mean moronic and so people were just putting huge amounts of LSD in things and make terrible experiences and I thought well okay this is completely she's crazy because I know it's acid and so I

just had this image that you pour acid on a brain and it turns it into emmenthal or cheese with all lots of the holes and sure enough like we don't even know what the lethal dosage of LSD is Right and a physiological rather than at a software level it seems to be incredibly well tolerated because it is the only thing that has this effect in such tiny trace amounts yeah it's the same as so Simon the ld50 outrageous you have two pounds of it and so she changed my mind where I realized that I'd been

thoroughly propagandized and that I had never examined my beliefs around these chemicals and then in fact many of the most powerful appear to be very well Tolerated yes yeah the most powerful ones in fact but they're also the ones that most closely resembled human neural chemistry so which is weird too so I think that look I'm a fan of eccentrics and as are you yeah for sure and I don't think Amanda's crazy oh she's definitely crazy so all the holes in her head what gets weirder than that what else she had a pet bird called

birdy and she built a mausoleum to her pet bird in the form of Some sort of a conical earth outcropping that in order to reach it I think you have to walk over Doric columns then cross I mean call like you know these old columns from Greek temples okay and so the tops of them form steps across a moat and it's guarded by attack swans like you can take nothing at all psychoactive and then you're visiting this woman visiting her Birds mausoleum being attacked by swans walking over Greek columns to cross a moat yeah but

that's just fun drilling holes in your head is really really where I draw the line just seems I mean I don't think there's any real science to relieving pressure by drilling a [ __ ] hole in your head I think you're just relieved by the fact that you've taken this really radical step outside the norm and decided you're gonna be the person who [ __ ] I'm sorry I'm team Amanda fielding she met she may have made a Crazy decision in her life but keep doing it every now and then don't really new hole just

well you know it's like it's like plastic surgery you get addicted to it pretty soon there's nothing for grinder just holes yeah Swiss cheese had no these these are two of the most lovely and cerebral people around and though she on acid when she drilled the hole I doubt it mmm I mean I don't think she's sorry I just I generally I think she's as eccentric As the day is long but I'm I'm such an admirer of people who are willing to try to cross the adaptive valley and do it and fund their own expedition

yeah right so this is like a giant risk it's just crazy that so was her son that was barred from coming in this country the filmmaker I'm just imagine if you had a can of this 25 milligram CBD killed cliff and they're like you [ __ ] criminal get out of our country but we're using these things as excuses yeah Like I desperately need to have Douglas Murray come to the US but people don't like Douglas because of some of his opinions but it's been here I don't think he can come now I don't know

there's some issue was this recent he was on the podcast when was he last year years ago - maybe two years ago was he here in the old spot of the new spot I feel like it was the new spot it was here yeah so it's within two years he can't come to United States I think he Can't come to the United States and I'm very angry about that and I'll tell you another one that I'm really angry about is Alex green the CEO of symmetry labs if you want to bring up the tree of

ténéré tea and er II from Burning Man oh boy said Burning Man what's wrong with Brett have you been no too many feet 20 what too many feet too many dirty people okay if you can find a video there's where all the masks are they're [ __ ] hoarding them for Burning Man so like maybe the third one - 2017 okay okay so the guy that's beautiful so this is a tree in Burning Man they've got all these yeah and okay the guy who came up with this is rotting right now in federal prison the

guy who came up with this tree yeah for what he's a physicist musician a very good friend of mine somebody I leave my children with great family friend wonderful Passover and Shabbat Dinner guests and currently in jail for weed what weed yeah but like I want you to think about and there are much better videos than this where these giant waves and things go through the people who are bringing transcendence and grace and beauty to our lives when they're hounded because of like what language they've used things that are like self-experimentation advocacy for psychedelics I'm

very it's very important that we have rule Breakers Mavericks people that you might call crazier lunatics and that we be very gentle and celebratory what does this gentleman's name again Alex green Alex green and Alex Green is was arrested for distribution yep I think so how much did he have don't know where was he arrested I think was New York New York is still illegal as weird as it may well be but my point is I want alligator I want yeah he's in federal prison I don't know a Couple of few years I don't know

with parole he's in a treatment facility but you know I just I get a call from my the keep the person I lead my children with when I go out of town sitting in federal prison you know it's like this call originates from the US Correctional and this guy said you know he's a he's a genius CEO of a beautiful mathematical art company and I just feel so powerless to figure out how to move people along was he targeted or did he just [ __ ] up And try to by a large number of it

a large quantity of it so that he didn't have to I imagine that he was involved in some I I don't know the specifics of his plea and I don't want to say anything that could screw him up but I imagine that you know the issue was something to do with the large cannabis business okay so he had some sort of distribution business in New York I'm not I mean I'm not yeah I'm not opining that he didn't break the law but I also Think at some level when you go back I mean you know

when you see cannabis being advertised everywhere and you grew up in a world in which like only bad people did that yeah it's pretty infuriating yeah it is you know and at some point I was so angry about Alex that I started talking about coffee and wine as drugs would you like red drugs or white drugs today yeah you know hey should we get go get some drugs down at Starbucks and people would be like very Weirded out but like tell me those things aren't drugs they're drugs they're drugs they're drugs always have been I

only smoked cigarettes for one weekend in Turkey years ago man did I not know cigarettes are a drug I was flying did I don't smoke but I have smoked before shows okay with Chappelle he's giving me cigarettes and Tony Hinchcliffe he's giving me cigarettes before shows and I'm smoked a cigarette then we got on Stage and it's like you're you're on a drug it's a cognitive enhancing drug by the way five story point and then you I'm so jittery I can do that I can't think yeah if you do a bunch of them it uh

there's Society has accepted a bunch of drugs and a lot of them that will [ __ ] kill you and then they've made some drugs that are some of the most powerful drugs in terms of their force on creativity to make cannabis is one of the most amazing drugs ever The defy terms of creativity do you do you believe that as true of indica as it is of sativa yeah indica definitely gives you some pretty wild thoughts it's it's really it perturbs normal consciousness right and in that that perturbation that if that's words that'll work

that's worth at in that adjusting of your normal perceptions that's where these new ideas come come in that's where these new it's almost like you get a little a little a chance To pop your head off the top of the clouds and look around and go this is not what I think it is this is some weird thing you know and I I got really high the other day and I made a post on Instagram about Joe exotic and Donald Trump and then this this thing and I was like saying like here's what's weird like

the thing that keeps coming to me when I get high is not it's that decide the idea that one day things gonna get back to normal and the idea is that There would never really wasn't normal that it was just an attractive illusion and then it's a comforting and attractive illusion then I used a photo of Joe exotic and one of Donald Trump's most ridiculous tweets we was talking about the corona virus and how he's a huge hit and how Aging's Joe exotic from the new Netflix documentary series called tiger king which must be a

part of your life get on board I don't know any better and then the other one is look at this that's Joe exotic it's amazing he's a guy who smokes meth he's married to two different guys at the same time they all live together it's great I don't want to tell you anymore spoiler alert but Jimmy go Jamie go to my Instagram so he could see the Trump tweet that I also included this post with this image of Joe exotic because these two things together was just like I was stunned and Tim Dylan Actually had

sent me this this tweet by Trump and I was it's the second image of the Joe exotic it's like a double post so if you click on the image like look at that President Trump is a ratings hit since reviving the daily White House briefings mr. Trump and his coronavirus updates have attracted an average audience of 8.5 million on cable news and reading roughly the viewership of the season finale of The Bachelor numbers continue to rise he writes Numbers continue to rise whatever is leading to this is Donald Trump the President of the United States

makes a self congratulatory tweet that his talking about a pandemic virus that could potentially kill as many as 200,000 American revolutions guilt revolution Joe look at this I want a revolt sigh I can't I can't I get your I get your winder revolt I get that but me as a high person in the valley sitting on my back porch while my Kids are asleep looking at this tweet I'm like well I don't think there is a normal I don't think normals real I don't think normals real I think we've been we've been hoodwinked normals not

real I don't think it is I don't think it's real I think it's that's one of the things that I love about nature you know we were watching a video yesterday of an owl eating the head off of a hawk because I was explaining there was a sort of a hawk war that went on in my Backyard at one point in time these owls killed these Hawks and I would find these headless Hawks like owls are mean [ __ ] oh man they're so big they look wise and kind but they are they're badass I

know they eat the Hawks heads that's like the way they do it and I found this out by googling who the [ __ ] is hawks heads I finally I would find these Hawks in the middle of my my yard with no [ __ ] hat I'm like what is that it's great owls man they did there Were these badass owls that would by the weight these Hawks great recommendation from you what bunny UFC bunny I had never seen rabbits fighting oh yeah there's oh my god there's like I tried to figure out which are

the animals that I want to see fight the most yeah so giraffes are way the hell up there oh yeah they fight wild raft battles are the best why do UFC is so funny it's funnier it's like it's like kangaroo fighting for Sure well we didn't know how mean they were to each other until my daughter's got two male bunnies and we we left them in a coop together I'm like oh well this is not good and they grew up together I mean these weren't like bunnies that didn't know each other but they would fight

to the death and they would fight all the time their ears were all torn apart we had to separate them yeah so this is it they fight all the time they're the rodents man have you seen Penis fencing in flatworms no no I have not penis focus okay Jamie I learned so much from you about bizarre animal sexual behavior all the way back to the the cuttlefish that pretend to be women yeah that was a good one that's a really good one okay there's a lot of men out there like that in society so this

is penis fencing with flatworms so this is like in terms of why do people who like social engineering not like biology flatworms have two different life cycles A male and a female life cycle and they don't know when they encounter each other and romance calls whether or not they will be male or female and it's decided by a violent contest so they've got I believe to plural of penis die let's go with Pinay let's see one at any given moment they have two penises and they attempt to stab each other and whoever penetrates the other

and succeeds in what might be termed traumatic insemination and the loser is Assigned the feminine gender right so the idea is that it's more costly to bear the than it is to pierce the opponent so female is given to the loser whoa so they just do battle until someone [ __ ] the other one right that's the person becomes a check now for that thing now there's a worse species what bed bugs bed bugs have no vaginal opening and so to make one the only way that a female can bear young is if a Male

attacks her thorax and breaks it open in an act which is definitely called traumatic insemination so you know you have a situation in which violent rape is the only method by which females can leave young so what they do to you when you stay in a hotel is just child's play compared to what they do my point is if you want to talk about eradicating bedbugs with DDT I'm all for it they are the the feminists worst nightmare species and I you know you and I talked about the natural world look like well that they

blow up like balloons I think so if you see one that's flat it hasn't really gorged so they're like ticks ish anyway the we had them under control I believe due to DDT and but on my list of 10 nightmare species bedbugs and flatworms for the twin traumatic inseminations would be way up at the top so it's like a needle so they literally puncture through the thorax within oh There we go oh Christ yeah now these are if there is a good lord boy this does he or she have a lot to answer for yeah

what did you do you [ __ ] why did you make bedbugs and why'd you make it like that imagine what kind of natural selection takes place where the only way that you can reproduce is through violent rape well it's interesting there's a different system which i think is Fascinating which is there's a conserved quantity in dung beetles where they have weaponry on their heads in the form of antlers for fighting the males and it turns out that there's an inverse relationship so there's some resource that's allocated between the copulatory equipment and the weaponry that

the that the bed that the dung beetle has if they have a lot of weapons out there goes the Sean Connery that's good barrel thing yeah I love it Excellent I've tried it for years thank you can't do it I don't know if it's just a failure okay the larger the weaponry the smaller the copulatory effort oh so it's like a monster truck thing yeah if you don't have it going God you got to go get yourself a monster truck that tiny little gun admitted anyway so what happens is is that the size of the

copulatory apparatus may be the engine of speciation that when a male's Equipment no longer fits the female that may be the cue that some dung beetles will speciate because they can't reproduce effectively and we don't know why the conserved quantity would be spread between fighting equipment which is used only to displace rivals and the size of the package when I'm going on a tour of the Vatican I had a really great guide it was really cool he took my family through this thing and he was he was a professor and he was really happy That

I was so curious about things so and so whoever wandering around billions of dollars of stolen art and one of the things I kept saying ago why are their penis is so small like what's going on with that and he was like that's a really important question and he's like back then the thought was that bigger penises were brutish and that they were that these you know you got to realize these are people that were fending off barbarians and the idea was that their Gods would be beautifully proportion but they would have these small sort

of less dangerous penises it's very nice yeah yeah they would they would make them like that on purpose they were all they all had little dicks all of them and I'm like these guys like if you looked at these guys like just the way they were built yeah the reality is most of them would have hogs hmm right these are heavily muscled Jannik thick men with a lot of Testosterone they would have big dicks most likely right that's the reason why women find that build attractive probably other than the fact that it's gonna be the

person who'd be more successful protecting you from said barbarians well I think that is it true that the castrati of Italy were sought after as lovers they could still perform really yeah but then you didn't need to worry about pregnancy how could they could get erect yeah when they were Castrate that doesn't mean any sense they're wrong yeah I don't think that's correct I think they're eunuchs I think that's why they would do that to men I mean men who would work in castles and they would have eunuchs that would work with the Queen I

guess they could leave well I don't know what what the definite what operation was performed on the castrati they would eat Ostrom okay but I believed that there was a way in which They were sought after as lovers maybe that's probably what it is what just kind of Lingus yeah I actually think that they were able to say I'm not sure what operation was done but I believe that they were able to sexually perform in a conventional way Jamie and if you could find the plural for penis that's got a keen eye yeah yeah penises

just sounds so [ __ ] crude [Laughter] well dicks is real that's the right way To say it [ __ ] a lot of [ __ ] yeah you don't say [ __ ] I might start do you know the the Michael Jackson story I know some man this is one of the Michael Jackson stories that I was promoting before it actually was confirmed by his doctor the doctor that wound up killing him then went to jail I was like the way that guy sings I was aware of castrati I'm like he sounds like one

of them yeah he sounds Like is his permanent female voice well the doctor that went to jail for sedating him and when he wound up dying dr. Jackson right right whatever the guys name was that guy confirmed that Michael Jackson was chemically castrated by his father to preserve his voice and they did it to him at a young age Wow because when he makes sense well that in retrospect it's like the end of the usual suspects like okay 100% makes sense if you look at the rest of his Family look at Tito or Jermaine they

look like men right they're these thick men like a normal man yeah and then you look at him he's incredibly slender like he has no muscle at all and he moves like he's got this you know there's this dance style that is like quasi feminine almost right it's like he's singing like a woman like it's like why why tell him that it's human nature like what what is that that's not a male voice right and hits incredible notes well the idea was That his father wanted to preserve what got them to the dance I mean

this is a performing entertaining family he was the number one he wasn't he was the genius man just yeah well you know what else do you know that okay here's what we're doing the rivalry between the Nicholas brothers and I think the Barry brothers do you know have you ever heard of the story who's the Barry brothers they were two dancing groups and the Nicholas brothers were just in terms of Riffing off this Michael Jackson brought back the Nicholas brothers the Nicholas brothers if you can find this were maybe two of the greatest dancers ever

what yours is they came out of probably like the 1930s and 40s and like Fred Astaire and Nureyev and all these people just thought these are the guys oh yeah oh I am so these I think that maybe Cab Calloway even yeah I believe that is and just in terms of like the femininity the elegant nature of these guys and Both of them geniuses and they could do anything yeah they're incredible look how great they dance my god oh my god the way he's moving his hips back and forth and his legs go sideways like

what incredible control I just say how much I love being an American I love all the stuff that comes out of this country and I we need to get back to being ourselves what are you talking about we're being ourselves right now no or not we're not what are we doing well right now we're We're looking now if you check out look at this castrati we're also supposed to be great lovers they could last long says toe masini to say that name montesque we how do you say that - montes Montez squee men's squad they

would have inspired a taste for Gomorrah in people whose taste is the least depraved what and when Casanova fell in love with a castrato who conveniently turned out to be a woman in drag he asked her to dress as a castrato in bed Okay I'm done check please for those women for those women who choose as dried and put it - in quotes in soft UNIX place their bliss and shun the scrubbing of a bearded kiss yeah they wanted someone who eats a lot of [ __ ] affairs were idolized and safe but bed-hopping could

be risky for the castrati one was assassinated by his lovers furious family and another who wrote to the Pope requesting permission to marry on the basis of that his Castration had been ineffective received the reply let him be castrated better the Pope said no you can't get married we're gonna cut your nuts off better gonna do a better job all mouth and no trousers castrati had more fun than you could thank hello Guardian great [ __ ] Samantha Ellis meets a singer who wishes he'd had the chop oh yeah there's get but won't see this

might just be a story you know what I mean the guy says I regret not having been cast Ruthie go get cast we'll hear something crazy but that's that's one of those things where that's just that might be a story like a good way to write something maybe no and click baby and it's been around for a long time here's the we may not know the last castrato was recorded see if there's actually a requirement played about a dozen times yeah yeah it's pretty gross it's not good he wasn't a talented one well that's not

what's gross was gross As the thought that this was a child that was taken and castrated and then for me to live this life look it's it's absolutely ridiculous but getting back to Michael Jackson I think there is is that right yeah Alessandro Mora chechi more set more ski more SG more SG Alessandro more SG the last castrato Christ the complete Vatican recordings what did they do that man's mouth well they had him there so Barry brothers is the Barry brothers were a rival team to The Nicholas brothers and there did we see with those

guys the Barry brothers Nichols Nichols why there's nobody remembers the Barry brothers if anybody remembers anything they remember the Nicholas brothers okay but the issue is that the Barry brothers were there's the Barry brothers oh that this you'll see that they are much more athletic in a certain sense and much less refined so doing a lot of cane twirling yeah but if you go to the end of this one I believe It's pretty awesome look I mean there's a scene where they you see those stairs mm-hmm they're about to do some things Christ look at

that yeah Oh spinning and then drop it into the splits all right well keep keep keep on this running up the stairs and then oh my god oh my god they jumped off the top of the stairs which we're talking about a good solid ten feet and they landed it into a split all right now that that's a nut Smasher okay yes guys look at that look at that BAM that is insane right three of them and then they did backflips right three of them oh my god that's a very impressive feat that's like that's

like parkour but you never heard of these guys with a ball slam no but I mean it's like the 1920s right well that's gonna be later than the twice was it yeah God yeah my thirties forties amazing the way they jumped off the top and language I've Never seen the hellzapoppin sequence no put in hellzapoppin this is this just a whole ease up bopping Elza bopping and then dance hell's a pop and dance hell's about yeah okay now go into the middle of it because there's a bunch of setup here that no farther okay Jesus

Christ oh my god so this is a guy and a girl and so he throws her over his back oh my god I mean if people can do anything Whoa but the amount of practice and how you would practice something like this the real thing that would be insane to practice is that jump off the top into the split was man its athleticism artistry and I means and you know this is also it's incredible oh my god it's pro wrestling my god I mean what is them well we should we listen to the music but

would get no no don't don't do that but it just I want people to be aware of the level of artistry and skill that Came out of places like Hart Harlem it's just all of this is pure American engineer and this is 41 and you know these are hard shoes with like slippery soles that oh my god was it what's amazing is that these guys can get any traction to do any of it and the girl just did that to him holy [ __ ] is the best of the best this is odd right my

god amazing know what I love about this program Joe is is I get to take stuff like this and blow it out To people at like millions at a time well what I love about having you on I would love to learn something about this this isn't me how the [ __ ] I'm in the balls and send him flying oh my god people on YouTube watching you have to Google oh okay yeah please do this is insane and this is 1941 my god right and if you want to think about like partnerships between men

and women and the way in powers this is passed back and forth Between people of equal abilities just astounding well yeah I mean there's no one person who is the the head of this like he's throwing her oh my god that's incredible that they can do that Wow that's one of the more amazing things about computer technology like the the footage that they did with World War one where they took some of that footage and colorized it and smoothed it out and you know use computers to sort of fill in the the choppiness of it

and it's almost Like have you seen my friend Lee you should have Alecia Lee on the show rosebud ai is going to make models a thing of the past she can generate like tens of thousands of people who've never existed and you can't tell the difference and like you know how that your optometrist says is it better like this or like this fantastic yeah she could create for you you're absolutely perfect you know visual mate and there's no way Of having this person or asking them out because they don't exist and there's no way of

telling whether they're real or fake so it's increasingly I just can't what is her name Alicia Lee Alicia yeah she's a PhD in like math or statistics from Berkeley and again one of these people who can do absolutely anything art dance programming high level theory and so her company is rosebud a I know she she's Also an actress Wonder Woman Jesus one of them huh yep when I'm confusing people one of them confusing people but it's unclear whether models will still have a job Wow good go to work skinny [ __ ] become something more

interesting than just a hanger how about that so what what what are the episodes of my of my puck cuz I launched it off of this one yes I listen Werner Herzog yeah I thought that was interesting although he's a little bit Self congratulatory which is a little shocking but he is the most interesting man you know it's very interesting guy he's also been in some really terrible movies like he was in that Jack Reacher movie with Tom Cruise the best part about that movie is that he drives a Chevelle 1970 Chevelle don't know that

you don't know about 70 Chevelle did you listen to that bread up Bret episode Bret Weinstein Oh your brother no I did not listen to that one okay I've also Listened to five or six if you listen to him to episode 19 which is the bread episode I think that's been the most important one and except for the one released today that sounds like your gear me up for the one released today well I just start with the I would start with the Bret one and what's so important about the Bret one the Bret one

is a story about his prediction that all the laboratory mice that we use from the major supplier which is the Jackson Laboratory in Bar Harbor Maine may have been compromised by their breeding protocols which allowed the telomeres to radically elongate and that we thought that these mice were representative of all mice and that they had radically elongated telomeres at the end of their chromosomes which appear to mediate the level of mitosis that can happen during histological repair so if you imagine that your cells can divide a certain number of times if if there isn't a

Counter that stops the number of divisions everything can become tumors and since you have like 30 trillion or 100 trillion cells in your body it means every cell almost can kill you so it appears that the reason we may die from senescence that is aging is that that's our anti-cancer mechanism so if you eliminate like infectious disease like viruses and insult from you know being hit by a car the two things that you have in the end is either you die From immortality which is cancer which wear cells can divide an infinite number of times

or you die from the recursion limit which is how many times the cell can divide called in biology the hayflick limit and Brett predicted from first principles that what we thought about mice which is that they have radically elongated telomeres was only true for laboratory animals because all the laboratory animals in which we test things like drugs have been broken They've been broken because of selective breeding yep because the breeding rotations privileged much younger mice and removed all sort of threats from the environment and so because telomeres are not protein coding there are sequences of

nucleotides that repeat as a counter rather than coding for a translation in the ribosome in into amino acid sequences what you have is is that the body can mutate if you will and to use the jackson laboratories concept of this Very rapidly because it's not building something structural it's just a question of do we have 17 on the end or 170 on the end because that it's acting nucleic acid has multiple ways in which it can participate in regulating the body's responses so in fact the breeding protocols constituted a novel system of selective pressures that

destroy the efficacy of all of our laboratory animals potentially holy [ __ ] so and so he predicted from first principles he Said I bet if you test wild-type mice rather than laboratory mice you'll find that their telomeres are not long as you believe and this was actually carried out by Carol Greider who did not acknowledge the prediction she didn't acknowledge the prediction you should listen to the show why did she not acknowledge some sugars into the show it's it's okay it's no because it's it's it's this is serious kids and it's a Nobel laureate

on the other side of this So we're taking some risk over that over there at the portal that's really interesting so the consequences of this could be grave it could be that so much of the studies that are predicated on these mice tests are they're useless well I've called up the Jackson laboratory and asked them Wendy have you had any changes in your breeding protocol are you they said we don't even count the number of telomeres at the telomere length I say do you have A history of when you've changed the breeding protocols are you

aware of these articles and she said like what I said you know these articles of Carol Greider and they said how do you spell glider like the plane I said Grider like the Nobel laureate and how do you spell that GRE ID er and so and then they said to me well we don't remember if we've changed the protocols I said you're producing laboratory animals I would Imagine you would have a documented history of every change in the time series of how these animals were prepared well I don't know if there's anyone around from that

time are you kidding were you absent the day they taught science who are you you know this like a single point of failure if true I can't even we've been at for 20 years we've been trying to get an answer as 20 years that no one will break the story I mean this Episode which is almost impossible to listen to because at the beginning of the episode I'm absolutely insufferable to Bret because he won't tell the story he's afraid to tell his own life story why won't he tell the story because in academics the idea

of some punk kid alleging that they predicted in a telephone call to a Nobel laureate that if they would test wild-type mice the telomeres would be radically along radically shorter than the elongated Telomeres of the laboratory test and then the person refuses to acknowledge that such a prediction was made even though we have emails from the lab that so she refuses to acknowledge it or she doesn't I cannot find a single I've been over the literature there is no mention anywhere of and I and I live this with bread in real time so I I

know the events were happening we have communications with that lab since there is I cannot find any acknowledgement From the Johns Hopkins University laboratory that this interaction ever took place and that because he called and wrote and did not write an email he did not have a paper trail of that prediction now there's consequential consequential emails that show the interaction between the labs but how many times have you ever heard anyone predict a molecular result from first principles in evolutionary theory this is what Brett Was supposed to be famous for and then you know he

he became like this obscure professor at some ridiculous College and then this thing happened to him but that's not his origin story his origin story is that he is the badass of biology who was able to make this prediction from first principles and may have advanced the theory of why we have to die balance between deaths from immortality that is tumors and deaths from recursion limits that is telomere Mediated hate flicks hayflick limit so what if anything has been done since this information has gotten out the world went crazy for the episode and there was

silence everywhere inside of what I've called the gated institutional narrative because to acknowledge it yeah they really have to throw out how much research we don't know I don't know but it puts the question out how much research is compromised by the rebbe laboratory breeding protocols and Breeding rotations from a single point of failure at the Jackson Laboratories in Bar Harbor Maine Wow episode 19 you know and you will hear me in a way where you will just say Eric is the biggest dick I've ever heard in my life but it's all to push this

Brett to actually talk you should have him back on the show to talk about its it skill I would love to yeah so he just wants to he kind of wants to soft dance it is that what it is soft step is just Wrong I mean here's the problem there's a point after which I'm not mr. nice guy and I'm just like adamant mm-hmm Brett is simply wrong it's a it's a result and a story that needs to be told if there is another side to the story we need to hear the other side of

the story and my goal is to have Carol Greider say you know what this interaction did happen and I probably could have handled this better because she has work that she's done which is beyond question some of The most important work that has nothing to do with anything Brett has done but it does not give that laboratory the scientific right to deny the existence of this interaction the importance of the interaction and because there are potential downstream consequences in pharmaceuticals we need to have an answer and every answer is interesting like if the laboratory mice

having radical added radically elongated telomeres is not a problem in some way That's fascinating how could you have an animal that has this huge adaptation to the laboratory not affect things that would be interesting if it does affect things that's fascinating especially if you if you're running tests on it that have anything to do with telomeres right well no but if it doesn't have to do like for example let's say you have a really toxic substance right and it causes a lot of cell death that requires histological repair well if you have Huge long telomeres

you're gonna have an ability to metabolize that toxicity very much better right right you'll be able to take the insult that comes from this and so these mice are probably preternatural II disposed towards radical histological repair that's why they remain youthful and young and if you test something that might be you know if you're doing toxicology studies it could be that the telomeres even though you're not testing the telomeres What you're actually doing is picking up that these broken mice are like the world champs of repair but they suck at cancer they all die of

cancer all of them yeah almost if you essentially all the mice that was radically elongated telomeres let go long enough all died of cancer because they're they're tricked out for one special thing which is weird yeah we are the best at repair Wow right so think about it is the theory of death And then clear away all of the noise there are two ways that that nature can't figure out an escape from either you dive in mortality which is that you think all your cells want to want to live forever you know and that's a

huge death a huge danger or we call it a resource lake leak in computers or they die because the only thing nature can figure out to do is to say you only get a finite number of cell divisions up front now that there's some adjustments To the theory but if you only get it like if you if you look at the moles on my face which your people love to comment on comment section they probably started as a runaway replica replicative process that arrested at the border of the mole in order to keep that from

killing me all right so we have cells that go rogue all the time but then what happens is is that there's some means of making sure that it the process doesn't take down the entire organism but think About 30 trillion assassins as the cells in your body all of which might kill you at any moment it's like terrifying and today's podcast today's podcast so first of all you can reach it now I finally got a website which is Eric Weinstein org and I told you that we have to leave this planet and that sorry it's

just hard dot the left but you're serious I'm have to leave this planet we have to leave this planet why why do I have to well this one look because we can't all Be cuz plan has the best beaches this planet says China Russia Iran in the United States under ridiculous leadership there's lots of reasons why we have to leave this planet we're not good stewards we're not wise enough to stay on this planet we're too powerful we went through this and by the way you pointed out this quote which is we are now gods

but for the wisdom and that became a meme so that was very Interesting the I I gave these lectures I think in 2013 it's almost the best quotes ever isn't it don't know and Oxford who originated that quote there was me that was you then when did you say it on your program what day I took which one remember which one you probably do in clip I'm trying to think about what it just came off my tongue and you it's one of those ones where I'll Drive down the street and it'll pop in my head

like the nicest person there No no no it's it's a it's a fantastic quote but it's so right it's like every now and then someone can get the whole thing in a sentence we now God's but for the wisdom so that's why we have to get off this planet diversify because they're too many people have godlike powers like Donald Trump commands a tremendous amount of godlike power thanks to our physics community well his ratings see how are they are so focused sorry okay so no too much godlike power Right so the best hope that I

can come up with and it's a slim one is is that if we could figure out what goes beyond Einstein's theory the Einstein Ian speed limit might be bendable or breakable because we would be in a framework that was larger than Einstein's people often interpret this is what they call FTL or faster than light travel but that's not what I mean necessarily what I mean is is that the underlying source code gives us opportunities that we don't normally Have so seven years ago I try to release I tried giving these lectures at Oxford which is

probably the university that is spiritually closest to what I care about because they care about geometry and physics and the interrelationship they've kept the face with a faith with that tradition through people like Roger Penrose and Michael the tea and I released this theory of geometric unity or rather I released the video of the lecture that introduces this theory So this was the first time since 1983 84 that I talked in public when I started this program when I was eighteen nineteen something like that and I just released the video today on our YouTube channel

and it's the video of you giving this discussion yeah so it's introduced by professor Marcus - so toi who has Richard Dawkins old job as the Simoni professor for the public understanding of science and he just he met me in a bar and he got me - a little drunk I Said okay what are you really working on and I told him and the first it sounded crazy and then he started thinking about it and he asked me more questions and he brought me over to Oxford he got me an appointment had me talked to

their experts and then he decided that he wanted me to give these what he called special Simoni lectures and they are an attempt to go beyond Einstein to look for a unified theory of physics between the two major branches that have Resisted unification and that's usually in the modern era confused with the idea of quantizing gravity but the quantity the quantum gravity imperative is a it's a political program that comes out of what would have been the quantum field theory community before it became the string theory community the idea is we have to take n

stein and make him submit to the will of Bohr and I don't think it's exactly like that there I think they got it wildly wrong and they Synchronized themselves and sort of took the field off the cliff and they weren't able to ship a product they couldn't deliver on any of this promise and so when I saw that they were about to go off a cliff I switched fields as an undergraduate into mathematics and used mathematics as a stalking horse to study the same sort of underlying structures but not to get swept up in the

politics of physics and I had this theory which I can now Talk about for the first time in like 37 years or whatever it is and like today's the first day that I'm sort of free because I've kept this to myself so if you want to ask any question about geometric unity but why why did you keep this to yourself cuz I don't trust these people you don't trust these people in the like I know there was some people that have written some Oracle it wasn't a Shawn doesn't matter if it's not them it's it's

an entire system that believes In peer-review it believes in its forced citations you have to be at a university you have to get an endorsement to use the preprint server it's too few resources and too many sharp elbows do you think that there's there's a logic to that method no I think to preserve it from charlatans and yeah you have to do jackpot Center yeah they just want to publish stories yep so this way you have to be Spencer it makes sense right yes but it whatever I'm doing whatever Mistakes I'm making so much so

what I'm wrong about it about this theory that's just fine I'll find out that I'm wrong give me the layman's version of the theory all right first time never yeah do you know that let's start off with Usher's drawing hands mm-hmm so do you Jamie do you have a picture for that the key problem that we have in a fundamental theory that people don't think about is not why is there Something rather than nothing I don't think we can answer that it's why is there so much that is that is rich out of almost nothing

and so this issue shows that if you had a piece of paper could you will into being the hands holding pens using ink to draw each other right that problem is akin to the problem that we face in a fundamental theory if you had the canvas how would the canvas bring all of the richness that you see around you into being and What I did was I said okay we have to go below Einstein so we have four degrees of freedom but they're not yet space and time it's proto space-time but before and then I

said okay that those four degrees of freedom are like the stands in a stadium and the stands somehow need to build the pitch and the pitch is a 14 dimensional space so if let's imagine that you had okay we have got four objects here right so the four degrees Of freedom correspond to the four objects then we need a ruler to measure how much of each of these four objects we have so that would be four additional variables and then you have angles because length and angle is what Einstein gave us in space-time so the

angles between any two objects are the same as the reverse of the angle so then you can count it up and there are six angles to be had so there's four degrees of freedom plus four rulers Plus six protractors which is 14 so there's a 14 dimensional auxiliary space and in my estimation you and I are in some ways potentially having this conversation in a 14 dimensional world that we perceive back in the stands rather than on the pitch as a four-dimensional conversation that is we're in a three-dimensional room going forward in time so I've

called this the observers and the observers is two spaces rather than Einsteins one space Stop you right there sure why 14 dimensions because I'm saying that the fields that is the stuff is dancing not mostly on the four dimensions that we think we perceive but it's also dancing on the rulers and the protractors so in other words if I have XY and Z I need rulers in the X direction in the Y direction and the Z to measure things and I need a watch which would be like a ruler in the time direct so those

four rulers are in fact in play as well and They're the protractors because like space time is four degrees of freedom plus rulers and protractors I'm saying work over the space of all rulers and all protractors as part of where these particles and fields can dance so the rulers and the protractors are part of the system not just a choice of particular rulers and particular protractors so by choosing particular rulers in particular protractors Einstein is grabbing a tiny filament of The space of all possible rulers and protractors so an in effect space-time is recovered as

the act of the observers contemplating itself it's a little bit poetic but I mean that the choice of a spacetime metric inside of the space of all metrics is a section of a 14 dimensional bundle over a four dimensional space now that's the first sort of mind-bending weird thing is is that this is not happening in one place it's happening in two places in X and in Y the stands and the pitch there are things that are happening in the stands and there's things that are happening in the pitch so you know when a guy

is like trying to make a free throw and everybody's waving their giant noodles trying to get him to miss there's an interaction between what's happening in the stands and what's happening on the floor and then the observer is the bundling of two spaces and saying hey you you're confused as to what's going On here some fields are happening in the stands some fields are happening on the floor and there everything feels as if it's happening in the stands because that's where you're sitting in some weird way then you've got this really crazy stuff which I

think one aspect of it is everybody in theoretical physics is looking to figure out whether there are three or more generations that is copies of matter everything in this room is generational one it's all made up of Up quarks down quarks and electrons so that up quarks and down quarks give you protons and neutrons and electrons give you a sort of interesting personality of the various chemical elements they're also neutrinos but they're streaming through us I'm not going to count them and that's all generation one of matter so everything in that think of that is

like plastic Lego then there's another Lego set made out of wood and then there's another Lego set made out of Like lead you know and we don't see those other two LEGO sets and except if we're doing very energetic experiments so there were three copies of matter and everybody was trying to figure out three or more and I thought maybe it's 2 or fewer and so one of the aspects of this theory is is that the third generation of matter is an impostor it looks like this generation of matter in terms of its particle personalities

but if you were actually to heat up the System it would unify with a bunch of particles nobody's ever seen before and so there are predictions for what those new particle properties would be there's also a fourth pseudo generation of what would be called spin three-halves matter which is not prohibited but has never been seen as a fundamental so it makes predictions for the particle properties of new spin 1/2 and new spin three-halves particles it attempts to say that there are sectors of matter That I think decoupled that the universe is not in fact left-right

asymmetric which would be called chirality and if you think about the weak force so if you have a neutral neutral on a table it'll decay and I think something like 17 minutes on average half-life when it decays there's an asymmetry in that decay called beta decay and that was found by a woman bring up madame woo from columbia and the cobalt-60 experiment so in the 50's this this gal Madam woo who should have want to know about prized discovered that when cobalt-60 decays through beta decay the electrons come spin out one side and not the

other meaning that the universe is like Marilyn Monroe or Cindy Crawford having a birthmark that lets you tell the left from the right so this is like the ultimate experimental badass who never got recognized fully she did an experiment based on work of Yang and Lee That for the first time showed that the universe had a preference of one of its left over it's right if you will I don't believe that preference is fundamental I believe that there's an another copy of matter that so the analogy I give is that if you think if you

look at your three fingers in the center of your hand your middle finger which is my favorite is obviously symmetrical about itself your digit ratio 2 and 4 is pretty close but is determined by the amount of test Tyrone you're exposed to in utero and then your thumb and your pinky are wildly off but you could try to make it symmetric and say well yeah you know a pinky is like a lame thumb which it isn't if you're just looking at your hand you're trying to figure why is my hand asymmetrical but you don't realize

that you've got another hand and it's thumb to thumb not thumb to pinky that is the symmetry so when you you know place your fingertips together you see That if you didn't know if you were like Oliver sexed out and you could only see part of your body you would think about oh the world is asymmetric while my belief is that it in weak gravitational situations this other matter decouples so you only see one hand or the other and we're all in one handedness so what I'm starting to do is is that I'm terrified of

talking about this stuff I don't have the right credentials not a physicist I've been out of this game for Forever so I often say the wrong things and break rules and who knows what and I haven't really talked about it this is like really a very loans I mean I've been completely alone on this project don't want my life what do you think the end result of this project potentially could be because you're saying we could get off his planet what he would like what are you talking about in terms of the actual implementation of

this this theory of yours so Jamie if you could Bring up my answer to the final edge question which is what is the last question Jon Brockman asked when the final year that he conducted the annual edge question and that is the annual edge question yes he would ask like 200 people many of them physicists or biologists or mathematicians you'd ask a question and they'd write an essay and then every year he'd publish it as a book when so I did that for 10 years finally got tired of it and he said ok This is

my final year we've exhausted this what is the last question so this is the question that I asked so does something unprecedented happen when we finally learn our own source code now nobody picked up on this but that's what my concern is which is what happens when the universe finally contemplates itself when we're the first like we're always worried about the AI becoming self-aware alla Skynet mm-hmm okay We are the AI and we're about to become self-aware if we can figure out what our own source code is so we are Skynet so you're talking about

the source code of reality itself yep and that our perception our limited perceptions of reality are giving us a distorted view of what the landscape actually is we're I'm trying to make sure I was somewhat holding this back because I'm afraid of what it unlocks and now that I know that we're willing to elect Donald Trump not Store masks play footsie with China be Putin's [ __ ] all of this stuff uh to hell with this we're gonna miss manage this planet into Armageddon if we don't get some grown-ups into the room and so I

don't know that I'm a grown-up but I'm willing to vie for leadership by putting something up having it investigated and seeing where it goes what is your number-one fear about this this source code being I don't know less of a better term mastered well the last Time we gained some serious insight into the way nuclei worked that with a little bit of geometry from Stanislaw ulam and Edward Teller gave us the the namesake of the bikini that was a terrifying moment we change everything changed in 19 I think that was 54 the namesake of the

bikini a bikini atoll was an island in the Pacific where we blew up a hydrogen device is that that inside those insane images where you could see the water going a mile high Into the sky gorgeous yeah is that what that is yeah but they did that a lot right well they did it for a period of time now and so it went to your question what if what so it's still expensive to create fusion devices so we don't know of any individuals who own the ability to create fusion devices if you recall at some

point somebody made a functioning nuclear reactor at discarded smoke detectors and we're got like 500 smoke detectors took out the Radioactive element created a reactor really think so so kid right yeah probably a kid who couldn't get into Harvard so we have a situation in which we don't know when ordinary humans will gain limitless destructive power you know try to imagine the Columbine kids weaponizing viruses or something like that so one of the great dangers is that great power I can't tell what the power would be if the theory is correct it might give us

The ability to escape it might but you say escape though yeah why do we have to escape this is what what I'm I'm always so confused about like cuz even when Elon talks about going to Mars yeah quick marsh sucks Mars sucks can't you fix here would that be the best approach well you wouldn't agree on that yeah what we don't agree on I think is is that I'm convinced that we don't have the ability to steward this place why don't you think we're better now Than we were a thousand years ago no no no

so Genghis Khan was doing a better job Genghis Khan was doing a better job because he didn't have limitless power just try to imagine it try to imagine a full-on nuclear interchange and then we're having this conversation afterwards so you you're concerned that nuclear war is not just possible but inevitable it's certainly inevitable given a long enough time series because all these weapons simply will become Cheaper there's no countermeasure that we it's too easy to destroy things relative to building right do you think that when we're looking at the failure of leadership on the scale

that we're seeing play out because of this pandemic that this is indicative of how would go no matter what went wrong yes yeah like if this was an issue of forest fires if it was a an issue of climate destruction if this was an issue volcanoes hurricanes nuclear war same Thing same thing like you no here's a weird one the suit look at look at the history Jamie of the SU vyas eruptions by year since the 1800s a bit my guess is that Wikipedia would probably have a list and the last one was in 1944-45

during World War Two grounded a bunch of planes and then Vesuvius stops erupting like what went while they overdue for Vesuvius eruption and then when IQ fella cool erupted in Iceland like we we hadn't Realized that the era of jet travel in the developed world had happened during an incredibly quiet period of volcanic activity so did we build any kind of volcanic sensitivity into these planes no we just grounded the fleet right and there's a there's a volcano not so far from I can fella cool called Kepler some makes makes IQ fella cool look like

a like child's play yeah so you have to look at the big nap as the greatest Danger to all of us and at this point about about being Jewish is that you know to be really Jewish Chet ben shapiro makes a point which is not very popular which is a lot of people call themselves Jews aren't actually Jews that really Jews on the way out people who can't figure out why they're keeping these traditions up they sort of like to go three days a year mumble a few words there's something intrinsically Jewish about wanting gold

bars someplace where You can grab them you know knowing where the exits are on a building like you have to be prepared because the problem of anti-semitism to leave at a moment's notice and Jews have always lived like this and many of us have forgotten because we've we've gotten soft in a in a world with you know knock wood anti-semitism well prevalent has been under control in the US for a long time and I think we've weirdly become denatured Because we haven't been living with open anti-semitism you see a crop up in the comment section

of every video but it's incredibly important to stay in a state of readiness and I've tried to keep that story about Passover and the Exodus into Israel from what Jews call Mitzrayim which means the narrow places or Egypt so my contention is the Jews had a great run in Egypt and we are all the Jews and earth is Mitzrayim and it's time to go where we're going we Don't know that we can go anywhere this is a recapitulation of our previous conversation right we have to know whether exoplanets are viable whether we can spread out

and whether or not they're in the middle of a big sleep well they may be right but if we're running a million different experiments it's different than if we're running one correlated experiment with Donald Trump at the helm of the most dangerous machine ever created in the world like That was not my plan so the formulation of this theory what you're trying to do is revolutionize space travel no what you're trying to do is make it possible for us and we found out we've been stalled out for almost 50 years in theoretical physics so install

that also so the simplest way of saying it is no one younger than Frank will check who was born in 1951 has gone to Stockholm for a discovery in theoretical fundamental physics made Since like 1973 physics effectively the the prestige part of physics came to an end in the early 70s when everything changed across the board we had a broad economic change in our world Jamie do you want to bring up GDP versus median male income something bizarre happened in the early 1970s that we should all be talking about that almost nobody knows about and

one of the things that happened was as the physics if we came to an end a lot of physicists Will all right you see that graph mm-hmm so geez explain to people they're just listening so what it shows is from what is it 1947 until about 1973 GDP and median male income are going up in lockstep they're almost perfectly correlated mm-hm and then abruptly median male income flatlines from about 1973 to 2000 2010 on this graph and GDP keeps going up now that is people always talk about the singularity when like we will become one

with the robots and AI Will take over this was the actual singularity that happened and it happened relatively unnoticed and that's what began to de rain again median male income is irrelevant it's just one indicator that's particularly clean to show you that that's that's when the action happened my belief is that since the early 70s very little in our society has been progressing that's not true for computers that's been like the big bright spot it's not true for fracking There's some innovations in imaging but in general in an average room if you subtract off the

screens you can't get definitely tell that that room didn't exist in 1973 because we stopped growing we got crazy because everything was built on growth everything was a scheme that became a Ponzi scheme when growth ran out so we've sort of been hollowing ourselves out from that time and getting crazier and farther away from reality and we have to actually figure out where We are and my belief was that our economy was almost completely created by theoretical physics theoretical physics underlies chemistry so the chemical revolutions like plastics from from the Graduate it gave us the

semiconductor from which we do our computing it give us the world wide web which came out of CERN it gave us telecommunications which used the electromagnetic spectrum it gives us medical imaging from tomography we don't really appreciate the Theoretical physics has been the great success story of our time and theoretical physics community is the intellectual SEAL Team six of the world and we under pay them we there under resource they're now completely unethical because we've underpaid them in and so Michael how so they won't talk about their failures they don't talk about who did what

they're not fair and decent because there's not enough resources and so when resources get Scarce people become psychopathic and like string theory is it's just an utter failure that we can't discuss because the baby boomers use that as well we're making huge progress while they're actually doing nothing I mean I don't say they're doing nothing they weren't making contact with physics they became mathematicians like a bunch of soldiers in generals who are playing war games during peacetime there's it's related to what they're supposed to be doing but There was nothing for them to do so

this sort of went to the gym and ran on a treadmill rather than actually running marathons so we have a terrible situation in that the the community that powered our economy and gave us this incredible power in the world through like nuclear weapons and the rad lab at MIT and whatnot has gone into decline and it's very dangerous to restart theoretical physics so it's been safe because there's been nothing new that we Can use coming out of it my net my belief now is that we have to talk about a thousand-year solution to human life

with weaponized viruses with weaponized nuclei I mean the amount of damage we can do is astounding and that's going to restart at some point since the nap is now coming to an end like we're living this is the end of the nap three months ago we were all just leading la la you know beautiful lives doing whatever we were struggling we were you know Frustrated but we weren't even but when she think this is not something that's gonna we're gonna overcome and we're going to get back to business as usual December 2019 so assume that

we do okay okay so we come up with a killer treatment we replenish all the masks we have vaccines we all just spent how long watching our leaders tell us to shelter in place make I mean we all went through this movie I don't think like I'm watching Conversations about open borders changed do you want here should we talk about open borders today let's just keep doing about escaping the planet and your theory well ok because we we've taken many deviations and why 84 30 all right ok so this theory geometric unity replaces space-time so

thinking about a fundamental theory is a newspaper story it's who what sorry it's it's where when which is space and time who what who would be fermions that is matter Electrons quarks and what would be the force that pushes them around how and why how would be the equations and why would be something called a Lagrangian and what this does is to say that there used to be two origins for for physics there was space-time which Einstein gave us and then there's this thing called SU 3 crusts u su 2 cross u 1 which comes

from nowhere that anyone knows what is that well you and I are seeing each other through photons photons are Scattering off us and being perceived in by our eyes photons are associated with electromagnetism and there is actually a circle at every point in space-time so here we are in space my fingers are up here between us and I'm going to snap at a particular instant at that point of the snap there was a circle as there is a point a circle and every other point in space-time that we do not perceive that generates all of

electromagnetism so call this the mysterious u1 we don't Know where this u1 comes from why is there a hidden circle that generates the electromagnetism that you and I use to make visual contact that we use to send electronic signals like our Wi-Fi not only is there a circle there's also a three-dimensional object called su 2 and an 8 dimensional object called su 3 and effectively su2 generates the weak force that's not quite right it's called actually weak isospin and su3 generates the strong force which Is sort of on the nose which is why the protons

in your body don't all push apart given that they're positively charged and like charges repel so why don't you explode that's the strong force and it comes out of something called SU 3 we have two origin stories one origin story is the story of space and time the other origin story is the story of SU 3 cross su 2 cross u 1 and what I did was to get rid of the freedom to choose the symmetries that generate The personalities of the part of the particles that make up this place and then the question is

okay I called it the magic beans trade because if you think about Jack and the Beanstalk Jack gives away the family cow to get beans which seems like the worst trade of all time but the beans actually had much more in them than was understood and so Jack gets the better of the trade because the beans allow him to do something crazy so that's what I did I Gave away the freedom to choose the symmetries to generate the particle properties I tied my hands the way Einstein would tie his hands and then I tried to

show that you could recover these particle properties by trusting that the theory would self assemble and that's the hands drawing hands so the ideas that I generated the fermions on top of the space of all rulers and protractors on top of the four to four dimensions and the natural object which Would be called spinners or chimeric spinners when perceived on the four-dimensional object that is when you pull back the information from the second world that cut created into the first from the pitch into the stands the particle properties appear to be there were more or

less the right particle properties of the particles that we see now when I started this in the early 80s we didn't know that neutrinos had mass and so we thought that there might be Only 15 particles in a generation and my stuff would only work if the number of particles in generation was two to the N so the joke when I was in college was I sure hope that too the fourth equals 15 now it can't be because to the fourth is 16 but then luckily for me neutrinos were found to have mass and that

sort of changed the probability that there are 16 particles so this is some weird thing to deal with the fundamental incompatibility of the Two theories general relativity of Einstein and quantum theory of Bohr and Dirac in the 70s we found out that there was a geometry that governed the board Dirac part of the world called eros Monte in geometry from Charles era semana analyzation and Einstein did use bernhard riemann a german mathematician his geometries so my gambit and why it's called geometric unity is that the two branches of physics are derived from two geometries so

rather than saying it's About quantizing geometry which is the quantum field theory imperialist perspective we mine Stein must submit to bore the real issue is that there's a fight between the parents that is bernhard riemann and charles aricema now we don't know those names nearly as well and so my goal was to say is there any world in which these two geometries and the advantages of these two geometries could be made to play together and in general there isn't but there is one Case in which it works which is this issue of natural spinners and

so the whole gambit was to say what if the world is not a generic world but a very natural and peculiar world where certain games work that would not work in a generic situation so what I tried to do is to recover Einstein the way Einstein tried to recover Newton from a more fundamental theory and the incompatibility is is that Einstein had to compress something called the full Riemann curvature tensor which is the sort of measure of how warped something is so he broke that beast that tells you the warping of something in two pieces

he threw one of them out called the viol curvature and then he adjusted the properties of the other two that were left to create general relativity so my thing does that but it also has another property called gauge invariance in gauge invariance is the sort of cynic wanton of the particle theory and this Is only possible in very limited circumstances and the the gambit was what if the world is in that tiny class where this this game can work so it's sort of a career suicide theory because if it doesn't work this way you don't

really get anything in the end so you know think about that exhaust vent in the Death Star this tiny little vulnerability and man you better hope that thing goes in what are you trying to do with this but by by releasing this With this this discussion this video that you're putting out are you hoping that more people examine it and try to actually implement it and then ultimately this would be something that allows people to to do what to do revolutionized space try I don't know I didn't know whether I wanted man to have his

own source code so I was invited this is but you were serious about this so this is like very close to you know I love you came on this program and I said It's straight we have to get off this planet we made a joke about getting high and all this stuff but I've always been dead serious about what I'm saying now if you ask me at a personal level I started this for lots of personal reasons I always thought that the idea of wanting to go beyond Albert Einstein was something everybody would grow up

wanting to - it didn't occur to me that there was another thing that you would want to do with your life like that that Seemed like the most natural thing in the world I want to understand why we're here well that means you're doing what you're supposed to be doing yeah you found your net I found my niche and and then it started this kind of completely bizarre thing because I was it was not a good math student but I had to go to the best place and so how does a b-minus math student in

high school go to Harvard University with a master's degree at 19 you know it's like just Sheer will cuz I was not a good math guy so I just wilded into being I got myself there I taught myself whatever it is that I do I don't have an advisor which is very unusual and I became intertwined with this this theory and this theory has been separating me also from people I love in the world that I'm in I've never known whether I'm crazy or whether or not I have something I don't know whether it unleashes

power if it works or it only unleashes destructive power Are you willing to have conversations like debates with detractors or critics of this I'm willing to have discussions with constructive critics construct and in fact I've done well because publicly you have you said privately in fact primarily yeah yeah I mean I've talked to people like NEMA or Connie Hamed at the Institute for Advanced Study who I just think is fantastic there's another guy named Louise alvarez gal May at the Symons Institute it's not very hard for The average person to follow but I think it's

not a bad person I understand hear what I'm saying I think would be incredibly valuable just release it for the average everybody yeah but I mean this conversation I know you're saying it's not for the average person but just to have it available to everyone so if they want to they could slowly go over it and try to understand it bit by bit and put it together I should talk about this I'm building I Shouldn't even say I'm building it there is a fanatical community or rising around the portal for what we're doing that's different

and there is a 24/7 discord server where people are talking like if you're ever bored or lonely these people are always on and or that border lately it's not for you baby but we've been trying to recruit a bunch of artists because I believe that art is part of the secret weaponry of pushing out like I don't think you know how Crazy was when we did the hopf fibration up here mm-hmm it was like Close Encounters all these artists start creating hop vibrations like I went to Temecula in this guy Neko Neko miners has a

huge hopf fibration in his backyard coming off of this program it's like what people tattoo your face on their arms right I'm aware of all this stuff I just choose to shut the door I'm I'm in there with them yeah and do that good luck well cuz that We're smaller that's true it is that too but it's also a lot of what I do requires me thinking on my own I have to be by myself and spend a lot of time staring off into space yep yeah I in me too I but what I'm saying

is is that when it comes to people following the story mm-hmm artists and computer people are going to help us push out aids - like can you pull up Eric Weinstein org there's a visualization that's sketched in the Door there's a portal in the website there go okay so go down all right you see that door no ya don't know why that's the clip they took okay beyond that there should be something okay right here this is a picture of a fiber bundle and the path lifting property relative to a connection so those floating planes

that was what generates electromagnetism called horizontal subspaces and you're actually looking at a gauge theory in That picture and so what you're saying is that what's valuable about the artists getting on board with this is that they can make a visual interpretation of this that can be cartoons like there's a guy named if you had Grant Sanderson know he does a show called three blue one brown which is some of the best math videos you've ever seen gorgeous stuff just sucks people in and you're like you're learning relatively hard math that somebody's Made visually beautiful

this guy is a national treasure and I'm hoping to get grant on the program you know we've been experimenting when we had Roger Penrose in the program I said I'm not going to talk to about quantum consciousness I'm going to talk to you about twisters and about your contributions to the field and what my community did is they built something called like the portal dot wiki so if you bring up the portal dot wiki there's an entire ecosystem that's Digesting what happens in our episodes or the lay public a son of one of the more

amazing things about the internet and about something like your podcast is if you build it they will come you know you have a bigger audience I will say that I think I have the world's best audience these guys like go to go to go into episodes or how many episodes have you had so far is it 28 yeah Oh Eric Lewis by the way you should have in the greatest pianist now playing in my Opinion so if you if you like if you go to or go to the graph walls I love that you're doing

all this and yet you're still interviewing porn stars and James O'Keefe hey we want everybody yes I love the hell with this cancellation yes yes well not just that I just love that you're just a curious person and actually wants to communicate with people on top of being this spaceman so for example we have this graph wall tome project where we start off with this Paragraph from Ed Witten if you go down you'll see that they're figuring out how the paragraph from Ed Witten fails over into this wall that was chiseled in Indiana limestone in

Stony Brook in New York which has all of these below that so that's the paragraph that tries to sum up the universe as we understood it in the modern era in prose and I recommend everyone read that and then if you go down from that there's this plant right right yeah go go there's a Clickable thing under that Neath that graphic so for example this is the plan for this sculpture that Jim Simon's the world's greatest hedge fund manager paid for and if you click on any one of these things these ruins so it's like

the uncertainty Heisenberg's uncertainty principle my people are digesting everything that we say everything that we point to and helping each other understand what goes on on my program so That I don't have to spend all the time in the shallow end Wow so like it's just this is heavy [ __ ] oh my god but this is what's interesting so I learned this from you actually you said cuz like I didn't think this was a smart idea at all and people are people are so eager to break into what's next we want to spin our

critic rissalah's and become the butterfly that we were meant for we're tired of being caterpillars yes yeah I know you're Hearing five Meo DMT but that wasn't when I was thinking no that it's I mean I really think that that what you're showing me that that is a branch of what humanity is trying to do with creativity with with curiosity with the the thirst for innovation that's it well it's time to go to the next level and we are trying in the funniest part is like brought to you by athletic greens and there again good

products yet this is the funny thing about sponsorship you See my grandfather was a Salesman and so in a weird way I'm living a romantic dream of connecting to my grandfather who sold like used clothing and clothing door-to-door he was a schemata salesman and I've been astounded at how much I enjoy all of the products that I'm advertising like the sleep pad that cools you so you don't wake up in a pool of your own sweat unbelievable is great I've lost 17 pounds through athletic greens Well you've also stopped stuff in your face with stuff

you should need no only athletic greens no the point yard you know you know your face looks there yeah it is but in part is because it I figured out how to integrate it into a program where intermittent fasting started paying off this is a man we could talk forever but I have to wrap this up unfortunately but I'm gonna watch your video and then I'm gonna watch it hi I'm gonna do - okay [ __ ] Twice and I'm gonna try to figure it out hey and Joe at some point let's just hang out

and I'd love to like just show you exactly what it is tailor-made to whatever questions without any worry about yes about and let's do that I can't wait and just wanted to say thanks again for everything but you do now only two appearances on your show I haven't called either of them in and thanks for calling me on your show yeah - on your Show yeah my show what's alright on my show on my show yes yeah okay you got it okay I owe you - you're the best thank you sir you're the best bye

everybody one thing but Eric Weinstein org please sign up for our mailing list so we can find you after the yeah go get your mind [ __ ] good luck good luck everybody thank you brother all right bye everybody stay safe