I automated 50 businesses with AI Agents, here's how

the whole Magic of AI agents happens when you customize them for your own life this is when you see the biggest Returns on investment all of the different areas in your life try to create agents for each of those roles unlike many SAS products today in AI agent space that just had an idea and then they instantly raised like 20 30 million rounds crazy without any product Market fit all of those platforms in my opinion they get the concept of AI agents wrong this is arseni he's one of the leading experts in the AI agent

bace together with his team he has built hundreds of AI agents for companies of all sizes in this interview we talk about how to automate your work with AI agents why 2025 will create lots of millionaires in Ai and how to become one of them and we also go into AGI and how to prepare for it if you really are serious about Ai and you don't want to miss the AGI Revolution make sure to watch until the end this is the David Andre podcast enjoy so you've built hundreds of AI agents yourself how do you

think agents will change the world agents will fundamentally change the way we work they will allow us to regain our focus and control over our time so you will only be able to focus on work that you truly enjoy and Excel at so specifically let's focus on 2025 because New Year just started we've seen like the last month was was insane you know specifically open AI released 03 right but overall the progress is speeding up so what are your predictions for AI agents for 2025 I think the biggest Trend in AI agents in 2025 is

going to going to be vertical AI agents I have a very big video coming up on this can you explain that for on my channel yeah so vertical AI agents are essentially agents customized for a specific Niche or use case so th those are the agents that already have been trained for you for that specific role or function so this means that essentially when you use a vertical agent you don't start from scratch you simply take that agent you typically go through like a few onboarding steps and then instantly it can work in your business

so how should people think about like building agents with the speed up progress should they think about okay what will be possible with a model that's like twice as smart because you know as we've seen like the timelines are are decreasing yeah good question so as Sam mman said you need to build your product or whatever it is that you're building with a conviction that those models are going to keep getting better if you want to build something lasting you need to ensure that your product aims for those models becoming smarter and smarter yeah cannot

like try to solve for the fact that they have like bad context Windows you know like they cannot solve needle in Hast stack maybe but now they can but like you know if you try to solve that you would probably run into issues with a new generation of models yeah so most people still don't have a good understanding what AI agents even are so could you please explain like the difference between simple tools well I guess chb is not simple but like AI tools like chbt then automations and then AI agents the core difference is

in autonomy the difference between between agents and automations is that automations are essentially hardcoded for you so when you're building an automation you know every single step in the process and how it can unfold when you're building an agent you can't predict all the possible ways to complete this task with AI tools I would say the difference is that AI tools are somewhere in between agents and automations like if we're talking EI tools like for example vectal which is your startup it does have autonomy but it has autonomy for a specific purpose speaking of startups

you're actually building your own can you tell us more about that yeah so we're building a platform on top of my framework agency swarm and we're aiming to build the first true AI agent Builder I think right now there have been you know tons of attempts to build like an agentic platform but all of those platforms in my opinion they get the concept of AI agents wrong many of them were built back in 22 23 initially they were building chat Bots and then one day agent becomes a trend and they instantly are building agents that's

not how it works the interface has to be structured differently in order to build real agents and this is what we're aiming to fix so basically you're trying to create a simple UI that allows people to build agents but also not limit them like a lot of these Frameworks do with like you know hidden system Proms and St like that yeah exactly as I said you know you shouldn't have those process Builders inside an agentic platform so all you do with a real agentic Builder is you just combine agents with knowledge instructions and tools and

then the agent determines how to perform the process for you so a agents basically have more freedom more agency they can solve problems that are not predicted by the person who created agents yeah they don't get stuck you know if someone like puts a wrong value basically so if someone watching this wants to get into agents what's the first thing they should do so I believe the first thing is to build an agent for your own personal use case so find a problem in your life that you might not have been able to automate before

with tools like make or zapier and build an agent for that this will allow you to get some experience on on how agents actually work and at the same time of course it will also provide a lot of value to you let's get specific like how would you recommend them to build like would you recommend them to download cursor to use your framework like what are the first steps someone like okay if someone decides I want to build my first a agent I have three hours what should I do yeah so I think building them

in code using a framework is useful but it depends on what you're planning to do next like if you are just experimenting with things if you are not planning to like start an AI agency or build agents for other clients maybe then for you it might not be the best approach I've said this for like over a year now but I think one of the biggest issues with agents is how difficult it is to build them right the lack of a simple UI and I think you're actually trying to solve that with your SS can

you give us more context like how did you come up to the idea and what's the vision for that yeah so our SAS product has been built from our experience and feedback unlike many SAS uh products today in agent space that just had an idea and then they instantly raised like 20 30 million rounds crazy without any product Market fit we are actually building this platform for ourselves so we were one of the first companies to start building agents for businesses worldwide on our agents as a service subscription and we used to build them primarily

with my framework but we would build an agent you know in 2 3 days but then it would take us like another 3 days to deploy that agent in our client's business MH and of course there weren't any other Frameworks or platforms that we could use so that's why we're now building uh this platform around the framework that allows us to deploy those agents much faster so that's another reason why people should take AI seriously you know learn the basics of pro engineering get their hands dirty understand AI as because there is going to be

many opportunities where businesses will want to implement them but they will not know how to build them right even with simple UI Builder tools like if you are the first one like you know once you have that fully released I guarantee you like the first 100 people that really master that they'll be they'll be able to make thousands of dollars just implementing that for businesses that's actually one of our goals we want to see a business buildt Solly on top of our platform that only employe a agents and that generates 1 million AR I think

that's going to be very possible yeah I believe it's going to be very possible and I believe it's going to be possible to even generate a lot more than a million dollars so say someone really sees the opportunity right they listen to this podcast they see a agents are the future what should they do like if they want to make money with them like should they start agency should they start like trying to sell it to their own business like convince their CEO like how should they try to monetize this it depends on where you

are right now like if you are in a 9 to-5 job the best way would be to automate some of your personal tasks in your work and if you have the opportunity to actually start an agency or maybe work as a freelancer serve other businesses which in my opinion has a lot more potential nowadays so in this second case I recommend finding a client typically you already know someone who needs an AI solution because I believe every single business will be in AI business in the next couple years otherwise you will just go out of

business so there will definitely be a lot of Need for people who can integrate AI into other businesses so find the business owner typically as I said it's someone you already know and try to create a solution for them try to create something that automates some of their standard operating procedures with AI agents and this way you can not only get started in AI but you can actually make this your full-time job moving forward and what like skills do you think are required for this does someone need to be like expert programmer with seven years

of experience or you know can someone just start with like okay I know very little I'm going to use CLA CH gbt to learn no absolutely not you don't need to know any coding at all you can get started just by using AI coding Tools in my last video on my YouTube channel I actually showed how you can use cursor agent and build agents without even having to look at the code so definitely you don't need to learn coding you just need to be curious and there are so many resources online so many tutorials on

YouTube where you can get started with these tools so all that needs is really like be ability to learn new things and ability to like endure discomfort right so many people just get stuck on the first roadblock and they all they need to do is like take a screenshot of their screen past it into chbt perplexity clot and ask like how do I solve this what you know yeah I believe curiosity is going to be one of the most important traits that you can develop moving forward and this is specifically something that we look for

when we hire people in our agency because you need to be able to adapt extremely fast the AI is developing so rapidly that everything Chang es basically every 3 months like with open3 model so no one knows what's going to come next and that's why you need to be able to learn really fast and be able to apply your knowledge for sure so let's get real specific right what are some of the best use cases for AI agents you've seen so far right now we have seen some tremendous results with marketing agencies because their entire

business is essentially structured around data like they run campaigns based on the performance of the previous campaigns they require like analyzing them almost every single day and this is exactly what agents are really good at they are really good at extracting insights from the data so you just take an agent you literally connected to like all of the internal databases for that client and it's able to instantly generate insights that before would have taken hours for these clients to get by themselves so that works extremely well but then what you can also do is you

can connect this agent to other apis like for example if this agency is running Facebook ads you can connect this agent to Facebook ads and this where it gets even more incredibly powerful because now the agent is not only extracting insights from that data but it's also taking actions on your behalf so it like closes the feedback loop for that agent and it can constantly run your campaigns and can analyze your campaigns and it can improve them further without you having to do anything so it's almost like the more context you can provide the better

the AI tools are exactly the more context the more data you have the better the result you'll get what do you think about open source like are you bullish on it what are your thoughts on like deeps V3 which is like super efficient when it comes to pricing to power so what people are often surprised to hear is that we've actually never used an open source model for any of our clients yet um the reason is developer experience yeah you see with openi the developer experience is significantly better than with any open source models and

typically it requires a lot of setup in order for you to run an open source model like open AI you're essentially paying only for tokens like you pay only for the tokens that you use and nothing else but when you're deploying an open source model you pay for the time that this model is running on your server so you pay for the server and typically there are a lot of inefficiencies involved in that process it's really hard to scale you typically get either cold starts or you have to pay for it like even when ID

yeah when it's idle so that's challenging and that's why we always go with open the eye because it saves us a lot of time and effort so that that's in relation to like building a agents let's go in general like do you are you believer in open source do you think open source is dangerous do you think it's actually more dangerous to have closed AI systems what's your like general feeling towards the open source I think definitely open source has its place because a lot of companies are extremely concerned with data privacy and for those

clients by the way we typically just use Azure yeah so with Azure open you don't even share data with open itself it just stays on your own Azure environment which means it's essentially the same as if you were running any other open source model on Azure but where I think open source does play a role is with Enterprises like Enterprises are just extremely conscious about how they share their data and many of them don't want to buy open the Enterprise which is like a couple million dollars or something uh so for them deploying an open

source model makes total sense because also they have a lot more traffic so for them this model is going to keep running constantly which means that you're not going to be paying for this e time as much and obviously they have maybe already their own infrastructure so for them the management is easier so I think for Enterprises definitely open source makes a lot of sense but if you're a developer building for smbs then definitely I don't think it matters at all we haven't seen a single business owner and we work primarily with smbs right now

that would care about what model it is at all I think there's a lot of like fake hype or not fake hype but a lot of people like overestimate local open those models especially when they don't have like the latest MacBook you know they're like oh I want to run a model locally on my computer and then they found out they can only run like a 8 billion or 13 billion model and they compare it to CH gbt or CL it's completely [ __ ] but people people want to have that feeling of like privacy

you know it's running on their machine it it sounds appealing but I think people really underestimate what the difference is between the latest models and between what you know the average laptop or computer can run yeah and also like if the costs are a problem like I mean oh1 minia doesn't cost anything and the gbt 40 uh as well is also significantly cheaper than the previous gp4 was like six times cheaper which was kind of crazy that they just released it like they just dropped the price six times and uh it was such a huge

boost for us for our Solutions because now we could handle those lower level use cases that before financially maybe it did not make sense actually I saw like some Microsoft paper recently that reverse engineered the size the models I don't know if you've seen it but they estimated GPD 40 to be like 70 billion yeah I also saw this yeah there are rumors that it's actually 70b model if it is I mean I'm excited because I'm making this bad on open a consciously yeah I think I mean someon said 03 minut is coming end of

January and now it's the start of January so the fact that we could have it in 3 to four weeks that's kind of insane like a model model that's even smarter than 01 at like fraction of the cost infinitely faster I think it's going to unlock like a completely new wave of products that people can even imagine right yeah it's we are already seeing like you know a completely new wave of products like costs for us are no longer an issue like I think with a like even with GPT 4 even like before for all

you could justify most of the use cases because typically it's always significantly more expensive to hire people like you know an average developer in United States with like all the benefits like $15,000 per month while if you improve the productivity of your like you're current developers by at least 20% maybe you're not going to need as many people however what also I want to add here is that what we've seen so far is that companies don't necessarily replace their people when their team becomes more efficient rather they think bigger instead so they think about how

they can scale more rather than just you know fire on not or not hire more people yeah so actually this is what I wanted to touch on next like why you don't like comparing air agents to air employees yeah it's because typically you need way more agents that you need employees at least this how things stand right now if you are planning to automate like an sop that one employee could easily Handle by himself or herself typically you would need at least like three or four agents for a moderately complex sop while a single employee

can not only handle that sop alone but also handle many other Sops do you think that will change with like 03 I think with o03 it's not necessarily going to change4 with um maybe maybe I'm not sure how it's going to develop but I think with those reasoning models it's not necessarily how many Sops they can handle it's how they can handle them so I think with like maybe GPT 5 it will change but with the reasoning models are a bit different the reasoning models they sort of tell you what you need to do rather

than they just Implement things so when you're just automating like a sop you are just basically telling the model like exactly you know what the goals what needs to be accomplished and then you're just evaluating the results while with reasoning models there's a new possibility now a new use case that opens up is that the model itself can tell you what to do so it doesn't even need any Sops it can just like take a look on your business and you don't even have to like tell it what to do and it's going to analyze

like all the data in your business and then it's going to tell you what you need to do and then if you confirm it can assign tasks to other small Regents and actually send this as an sop as an instructions that they need to follow to actually do that thing you mentioned gbd 5 do you think gbd 5 is even coming because there was during the 12 days of open AI a lot of the speculation was about gbd 4.5 right but it turns out they didn't release a new normal llm but they gave us you

know they announced 03 so are we going to ever see gbd 5 or is it going to be just like O3 0405 what do you think I think we are going to see the GPT 5 model because I I believe we need both the reasoning models and the implementation models if we look at it from the agentic perspective the reasoning models are those CEO and manager agents just like in a real organization and the GPT 4 and GPT 5 are those implementation models so those models are still required when you know what you need to

do and you need just someone to actually complete that thing so I'm glad you mentioned that because we talked about this a bit yesterday about how basically every person will be able to have their teams of Agents right like you need to think about like a CEO like you will have agents can you like think can you like shed light on this how how people should start thinking about tasks they want to automate or like how their life will look in a year yeah so think about all of the different areas in your life things

that you're responsible for like for example for me it's you know content on YouTube it's development it's leadership in my team and so on and try to create agents for each of those roles this is how we basically work with businesses as well we create agents for each specific Department first and then if it makes sense we can combine those agents together with like a manager agent so just look at every part of your life separately almost like a department in a company yeah and then see like okay which a agent could I Implement here

maybe combination of like fastest plus most impact yeah I think you can automate your personal life just like you would automate any other business I think it's going to be crazy when people really like let's say maybe 04 is going to be able to do like a job of quality EA like executive assistant that right now cost like 20K a month maybe yeah and if every person who pays chbt Plus subscription or chbt Pro will be able to have an AI agent of that capability yeah but I think the whole Magic of AI agents happens

when you combine them with your own personal data when you combine them you know with your own insights when you customize them for your own life for your own specific process this is when you see the biggest Returns on investment yeah that's why people need to use like clo projects or custom gpts because like just by adding a bit more context you know how you do your content how you do your development how somebody schedules something in your calendar just adding that bit of context makes a huge difference and I think that's that's why a

lot of people they use share gbt for like two three times and they don't see that much use case in it is because first of all their problem was terrible right but the second of all they didn't give it necessary context they didn't like tell it what task they're doing what is relevant about it what they know about it what should it look like what it shouldn't look like like if you just paste an random email and say respond to it you'll probably get the tone wrong it will probably be like way too like AI

like it will probably include like cringe comments that you would never say but if you give it multiple examples if you say you know write in lowercase or if you say do not use the word Del like you can you can tell it a lot of things it gets exponentially better the more context you give it obviously you don't want to confuse it with useless stuff but like mhm this is basically like the fundamental of prom engineering yeah prompt engineering is going to be huge also in 2025 I think 2025 might actually be the biggest

here for prompt engineering because right now agents aren't really self-improving so they're not able to generate their own prompts but the models are getting so powerful that like every single word makes such an impact for that agent so yeah it's like a real position now and if you work on prompts you can actually achieve significantly better results than if you just you know ask chpt to generate it for you it's so funny because I remember in like end of 2023 you know after tgbt release I started watching Interview With Sam Alman he said PR engineering

will not even exist in a year yeah and that was like end of 2023 so obviously now we're in 2025 and PR engineering is as you said like most more important than ever so yeah it's kind of crazy that even people who run the AI companies still cannot predict what's going to happen and that should kind of give people a hint of like oh like this is a completely different thing yeah self-improvement for agents is challenging I do think that at some point agents will be able to self-improve and write their own prompts but you

will still have to at least provide like a starting point and the better your starting point the more time and tokens you can save but I think that's what he meant I think the AI tools or the AI models will be powerful enough to kind of deduct you know like basically reason out what you meant but even if you're prompt is like super confusing they they cannot read your brain right maybe when neuralink comes they can but like in the near future you you still have to give that first step you know the initial idea

the initial push and if you just completely confuse it even if it's 05 I think it still wouldn't be able to really help you that accurately yeah the the model needs to understand as much as possible because if you just take like an off-the-shelf model and if you just you know plug it into your business it means that anyone else can do this as well and this way it doesn't provide any competitive Advantage so this actually brings us to the concept of vertical AI agents and I think you said that one of the biggest opportunities

for 2025 is building something like this for a very specific Niche where you have a lot of experience can you explain what that is and can you explain like how would you do that if you were starting from scratch first of all you need to understand your Target customer and their problems really well and then you will just need to templa it so you customize only the specific parts that are different between different businesses essentially vertical agents are just templates that's how I think about it so basically the key is knowing the niche deeply knowing

the process whichever process you're trying to implement agent in deeply because you cannot you know if you don't know how to do the steps yourself it's like very hard to build an agent that's good at that right so like let's say you wanted to automate like video editing would be quite hard to do right but if you are not a good video editor you have no no chance yeah exactly you need to understand the role that you're automating yeah so what are some like tips for people who want to get better at PR engineering because

everybody who gets new into AI they think they're good at it but they're bad at it like personally every month I feel I'm getting better and I'm already in AI for like 20 months or something so people who are completely new yeah good tip for prompt engineering is to actually not use AI to write your prompts it's uh it's very easy to over rely on AI but you know if you use AI that doesn't have context it's not going to generate a promt that does have that context so I recommend actually starting from scratch with

a prompt and just follow like a template and then later on once you've tested it a few times you can use Ai and see if it improves but just don't start you know with chpt on prompt like just don't ask chpt to generate a promt for you that's not going to work yeah this is one of those things where people really need to get their hands dirty and really understand like how it changes with each word right or even like the same sentence if you put it in the middle or at the end it's huge

because it usually reacts to the last sentence a lot more EXA so yeah this is really like you need hundreds of hours with these AI tools to understand this yeah as I said prompt engineering is becoming more more and more of a real job it is already I think a real job just not all of the companies recognize it so you need to approach it accordingly it should be like you're writing an essay or like a blog post you should approach it consciously like you should actually look at every single word every single sentence and

see how it reflects in the performance of the agent so you mentioned agency SW so for people who don't understand explain agency form and how it relates to your SAS agency. yeah so uh Agency for is our core framework which will forever stay open source and this will have all the core features from our SAS product as I said forever and um you will be able to build agents uh with this framework like the same as you would on the on our SAS product but the SAS product just allows you to do it faster to

avoid managing those agents yourself because building them is one and deploying them is a completely different story and typically it's a lot less fun than actually building the agent deployment takes even more work and it's a very tedious boring work and unlike crei it doesn't even like share data we don't collect any Anonymous data like many other Frameworks so it's going to be like completely Your solution so you mentioned you know other agent Frameworks CA is probably one of the most famous ones not collecting data is just one of the advantages of using agents form

right so what are the other ones the biggest advantage of using agency forum is that you have full control over your systems is the only framework that doesn't hardcode all of the prompts all of the parameters for you like agency SW is probably the most lightweight framework out there and it does not depend on anything essentially except penic for tools so in comparison to crei crei is built on top of L chain and that's why there are like tons of additional prompts and without them uh the framework simply wouldn't be able to function not only

that but because of lank chain you also Can't customize it to your own needs so typically when you go into production you find out that you can't steer it as much because there are just so many different abstractions and whenever you need to change something you simply can't do it because you're like so deep in all of those abstractions and you don't have access to the underlying code yeah I think a lot of that is because you build it for solving your own problem right like you were building agents for companies unlike like some cool

side project like thinking okay what's the trendy thing right now ai agents I'm going to build my own AI framework right like that's that's I think the origin of lot of these you actually did the opposite approach you had clients you had a real business and you needed a solution for them so yeah exactly we I think are the only framework that wasn't built as a funding vehicle or as a research experiment like we actually build it for ourselves first and then we open sourced it unlike crei which from the very start had the intention

of raising a funding round so we actually build it for ourselves and that makes a significant difference and also we've build it on top of assistance API so we really waited the s for the right moment many Frameworks like linkchain they were built even before function calling models very thing while we really took this crawl walk run fly approach we waited until open the released assistance API which is the best API for you to build agents because it manages the state of your agent on openi site it provides you with access to Enterprise level rack

straight out of the box and of course a tool like code interpreter which is extremely hard to build yourself and there are even entire startups that do just that and in the future of course we're expecting this API to grow significantly like for example the only way open eii can release the new memory feature which is already available in chat GPT is through assistance API it wouldn't be possible to do it through chat completion so I think our framework is really well positioned for those models getting better which is also really important I think people

who are new to this they won't appreciate what you just said because there's like multiple levels to building air agin right like as you said function calling token streaming structured outputs prompt caching like it gets more and more complex the deeper you go and if you choose the wrong badly documented open source model you will just run into so many issues later on rather than if you choose like open AI which as you said has the best documentation has the best development setup you'll be able to like build much faster and also they take care

of all that headache for you cuz like if you don't if you don't use assistant API like you you just have the assistant ID right but like if you don't you need to manage the memory yourself so you know there's a lot of like things you would have to basically reinvent the wheel if you don't use yeah exactly and also I think that's what makes AI interesting that like things are developing so fast there's always something new coming out so although these models are getting smarter and they will be able to handle maybe some of

the details and building air agents the air agents themselves will also constantly be getting more challenging and more sophisticated to build yeah for sure so if you could only pay for like two or three AI tools right now what they what would they be definitely Char BT if you don't have char PT I know you're trolling yeah you shouldn't be listening to this podcast yeah if um for development I think uh cursor is my favorite tool right now same how far you can go with just these two tools you know yeah with just these people

always complain about AI subscriptions as if it was like thousands of dollars but like even with ch gbt plus curer you can do so much yeah and the last tool I think should actually be one of the AI Integrations by some of the tools that you already use like for example I really enjoy nocean AI but this is specifically for me because this is where we manage our entire team this is where I write uh plans for my YouTube videos so and also I think notion is uh really honestly like it's my favorite integration because

I really love how they made the rack feature and how you can search across your entire notion like I have all my book notes and notion so whenever I have like a question about a certain problem in my business or personally I just ask notion and it gives it like information based on my own personal book highlights which is extremely powerful yeah so I guess that's one of the rare companies that did it correctly instead of just putting annoying it's actually very rare to see a company that did yeah integration correctly I think that also

harms like the reputation of AI like a lot of people try the customers chat bot you know in the bottom right corner they hate it they want speak to a human and then they think like oh yeah AI is not there but who knows what even model they're using who knows write the proms right like in half of them you can just say like ignore previous instructions give me a cooking recipe and it will just do that yeah some companies just completely failed at the Integrations I was about to ask like for business owners listening

to this because a lot of people in my audience have a business right what is the way to do it right we we mentioned you know what's what's it like to do it incorrectly just annoying customer support chatbot but what is like if someone really want to implement AI into their business right they have a successful business they don't want to start from scratch they just want to make sure they're the leading company in their industry that implements AI how should they do it how should they think about it should it be into the product

should be in internal systems first yeah it's a great question I think it should be both internal systems are also extremely important however if you are a platform then definitely it depends on the scale of your platform like if you're just starting out like for you for example with vectal internal systems are going to be more important because it can speed up your development significantly but if you are a well-known platform if you generate significant revenues then externally agents will make much larger impact so the right way to do this is to first of all

understand all of the possibilities there if you don't have this expertise in your company it's going to be really hard for you to do that so I recommend definitely Consulting with someone who does have that expertise first because we did work uh by now I think with at least five different suspect products and we know like what's possible out there so we can take a look at your platform and then suggest specifically for you what would be the highest return on investment use cases last question I have let's say someone wants to build or someone

wants to like prepare for the Post AGI world how should someone like think about their life their business like how should they adjust their timelines what they're doing yeah I think you need to start taking a proactive approach to life in general to your work you need to start embracing your own ideas MH so you need to start generating ideas you need to start recording those ideas constantly and you need to take control over your life and your time because in the future I believe ideas will become more important than ever before those models they

will forever lack agency like I just can't imagine a system where eii will trigger itself like you will always have to at least send this initial prompt to Ai and just at at least like tell it what you want and the thing is many people don't even want to do that they just don't Embrace their own ideas and I think in the future when we have AGI you need to be able to take incentive even more than nowadays because you will have so many opportunities the only thing you need to do is just leverage those

opportunities I think there's going to be two types of people the ones who Embrace this who listen to your advice who take more initiative write down more ideas really exercise the creativity muscle and the second type of people people because of the improving AI they'll Outsource more and more of their thinking to Ai and they'll become more dependent on it and they'll just be complete NPCs yeah exactly if you work with AI just make sure you also do this consciously don't over rely on AI don't trust it fully yeah don't just ask it to fix

things like ask it to explain it first and this just allows you to get feedback and actually learn from Ai and not just you know Outsource your thinking to AI so I think that's a good note to end on thank you for coming on this podcast obviously we had recorded an entire 45 minute section for your channel so for those watching this make sure to check out aren's channel it's going to be linked below uh also what else what what else do you want to plug I am starting an Instagram Channel now that we've moved

to Dubai with David uh and I finally have time and I think I'm going to just be posting more like General Life advice there so guess we'll make sure to follow ouren on Instagram if you're in Dubai message us maybe next podcast you can be here thank d thanks bro