Gym Ownership, Coaching, Beyond Powerlifting | Ryan Celli, Dave Tate's table Talk #296

Effort yeah effort so like and that's another good question what do you mean by effort because I'll see people work out for four hours I mean there's 15 minutes between sets they're on their phone like I don't know it's that like it's like I don't know it's like how you g to get anywhere with that but but they do okay like a lot of them do like the squad every day thing and Bench every day and deadlift every day and they're decent the numbers aren't horrible but they seem to just like they're just there they

never really go up mhm like I have to see progression even with my clients like I don't care who they are be 70 years old like in my mind they're paying me that every time we train you're going to be better whether it's an extra rep or another set we shorten the time between the sets we changed the order you know what I mean Like we did something that made it harder and you did better [Applause] [Music] it's time sit down keep it real and cut the [ __ ] welcome to table talk all right

guys we're back with another episode of table talk today my guest is Ryan sely right uh Sy Sy I knew I you know what I practiced it five times and I even wrote it out as far as c e l l l e and I think technically it should be Chelly that's that's how it is Italian yeah but my grandparents always told me when they came over they wanted to be more American so yeah I need to quit practicing what I need to do because I always butcher it when I do that with um at

one point in time you had the alltime world record raw I did and 198s for 1840 yep and then through you've been through bodybuilding and powerlifting first then bodybuilding then kind of back to powerlifting then kind of back to Bodybuilding right and then into BJJ where what I want to jump off of is the how when you got started into powerlifting because like myself you started very young I think at 15 stepdad's garage or something like that and he kind of knew what he was doing right and before that you didn't have any real Sports

background no so it's your only sport that you ever really known was powerlifting right so how did that come to be to Where your stepdad knew powerlifting cuz we're going back to 90 so my first meet was 89 so you're talking probably 88 yeah yeah I was like from like 13 to 15 I remember messing around with the weights but I didn't I didn't it didn't bite me you know I just did it and I'd be sore and I wasn't good at it and I was weak and I was only like I mean the first

meet I did I think I weighed in at like 107 or something 114 pound weight class um but yeah my Stepdad his father was into weights and was had you know arms and was big and always trained and so that got passed on to my stepdad and then he had some weights in the garage and um showed me some things and we figured out like for bench press for whatever reason I was pretty good at it and he was just like you should try to go do a meet there's a local meet coming up and

and so that's that's what so before that though I mean you're just you're dabing what what Turned the corner to make you take training more seriously man so I would say just watching movies with like Arnold Schwarzenegger and stalon you know what I mean like I can remember like super young one of my really good friends like I'm talking We Were Young probably 10 to 12 years old but he was like bigger and you know strong and he had like the sand weights in his basement when every time I go over his house he would

be lifting I would try to pick something up it felt super freaking heavy you know what I mean but he could pick it up and I and so like I shied away from it and then his dad went to like a racketball Court type of gym and we would go spend the day there and just mess around and lift everything we you know no we didn't know what we were doing just kids and then that was during probably that period where I was like on and off of messing with it and getting away from it

and Then I remember watching the movie Commando and seeing Schwarzenegger's arms and being like man like I think I one arms like that I go down to the basement get the dumbbell sat there did curls for I don't know how long until I couldn't do anymore yeah and then once I felt that soreness and like that like that that's what got me going that that feeling that I could like train that muscle be slore and then like recover from that be able to do it again so like That's how I think I kind of started

to get into it and then we had that little weight set in the garage and I would go down there and mess around I didn't know what I was doing like I knew like like we had like a five gallon Like Home Depot bucket M and I would like box squat before I even knew what a box squat was but I was so weak at the bottom that I like felt like I need something there to stop me so I can judge where to go down to but I didn't Know anything about depth or competing

or anything and so I just I did that and then yeah I don't know I just fell in love with so the bench felt the bench felt the best deadlift and squat not so much yeah do you have any idea why was it your mechanics at the time or I don't know I don't know my had to be like my leverages or my tendons like when I had this PEC reattached the surgeon was like I never seen anything developed like that before so like maybe there was Something but now that was probably because all the

years of training right but maybe originally I don't I don't know have an answer for you um so as soon as they figure out or see that your bench is decent you get into was it a bench only meat or a full meat it was just bench deadlift meat and and uh it was like an an Armory and there's a bunch of like like where I grew up there was a lot of really good lifters like really good Lifters um in fact if you probably pull up that that meet you'd see um I think Gary

heisy competed it so you know what I mean like this is like a little Canonsburg PA bench deadlift meet and they had some big names there um but I just yeah I remember going to that um I think that open power thing says 170 I always thought it was 175 I think it is 175 I think I like one of those powerlifting USA certificates yeah because it made Like top 100 back then so I'm pretty sure that says 175 but uh and I remember going there and and seeing all these guys and being like what

the you know what I mean like what is this all about they had the bench shirts back then yeah but that was just dens or blast shirt yes and so everybody's walking around with their arms up and I'm like what is this like I'm like that's how they're doing all this weight you know I don't have that I didn't know what it was my Stepdad didn't know what it was uh so yeah I was only 15 then and it I'm trying to think it's interesting because back in high school we ended up having a student

teacher for Ma math and he was bodybuilder and he's freaking huge and I remember in math class being like I can't even think about the math like this dude's giant you know like how how's this guy so it turns out that he's from the gym that held the meat that I Did that first powerlift so we start talking and he invites me down to train at the gym that was right next to this Armory where the meat was and so my I got my stepdad to take me out there and it's like it's like on

the second floor in the back alley of like an abandoned building wasn't that how all me were back then that was either as a high school gym yeah this bowling alley this was the gym itself oh the gym okay right so so I Meet the student teacher and then he ends up bringing me to the to the to the gym that hosted that meet right and uh I mean it was just it was super hardcore I mean I remember the first time like get go up these flight of steps to get up there and there's

a big conveyor belt that took I guess the equipment up there beside the steps and you know no heat no air conditioning nothing no fans um and I can remember like it was at night and because I had To go after school and it's about 25 minute drive uh so right away I'm like thinking how I don't even have a license like how am I going to get here but I remember going up there and like seeing like the steam cuz like the everybody's sweating and environment and the intensity like ACDC blasting I was like

everybody giant everybody lifting like you know plates everywhere um and so I ended up I ended up training there and I as soon as I got My license I would drive there three days week and and I didn't I didn't really know anybody that student teacher trained in the mornings or whatever right he was a teacher I'd have to go after school um and for whatever reason they just kind of took me under their wings how old would you say they were at the time they were all I don't know they prob they had to

be like 10 years older than me I guess mhm yeah I'd say 10 Years older so maybe they're like 25 and were most of them powerlifters or just a lot of powerlifters and a lot of bodybuilders okay but all competitive this place was a [ __ ] hole you know what I mean it really was and the only people that went there were people like like you and me just like that's what we did but because I could bench so much like I was benching you know more than some of the not highly competitive guys

but some of the regular people so they Must uh I don't know but you know how it is they respect people we respect each other when you see somebody that you know lifts or well until you get better than they are yeah yeah I guess yeah yeah but they they respected that weight that I could push and the owner really took care of me too he um yeah he would like help me out write me give me like some kind of workout plan cuz I really didn't have one just lifting I don't I know like

I said that First one was Bench deadlift and then like that's that's where I learned like how to squat how to arrange the workout I remember he wrote me up like a 4- day week routine it was like uh Squad bench so Monday Squad Tuesday bench Wednesday off Thursday was deadlift and Friday was like shoulders and arms MH and so I just followed that he had like a still use it to this day it's like a a spreadsheet so all my clients there was like 12 weeks like a spreadsheet laid out yeah and Yeah I

after every set I did I'd go up to him and be like Mark what do I do next he' be like what would you just do and I so I just did 95 for eight do this right and I every single set I would go up to him and ask him and he always told me what to do no questions back then there was no person training or you know I mean it wasn't it was all like a group type of thing yeah there was no such thing so yeah thank God he did that and

uh I Remember the one day driving there by myself in the winter and I get there and like Mark's not there I'm like [ __ ] I have no idea what to do you know and then I started trying to figure it out I'm like what am I gonna do if this guy's not here I gotta figure the [ __ ] out myself and and then so then by then too I was starting to meet other lifters there's a bunch of other teenage lifters that were really really good and a an little bit older guy

than us would end Up taking us to the meets so he was like our our ride and our coach and um yeah he he was a big influence too so now during that time was that were you competing single ply so that first me was just rock because I didn't know nothing about it and then after that I got I got a bench shirt what's even more funny is after I seen that I remember going home and I literally found like all the smallest t-shirts I could find Dave mhm and I put 10 of them

on like had my mom like help me squeeze in them and then you can feel that resistance right I it wasn't much but it was like it gave me that idea of like oh that's what this is um what about a squat suit and so squat suit I ended up getting into that stuff too yeah so anytime I competed in a full meet I had a um just a champion in or yeah well we should note that at that time there was there was really no raw division no such thing there was single There was

just gear you know it was all single play then yeah it was probably more sport was more divided based upon anabolics or non anabolics right everything was either single ply multi why I guess there wasn't multiply in the ipf but yeah not at that time you're talking like late 80s yeah early 90s so all single ply so there was nothing else in the blast shirt so what did you feel like the first time you got a blast shirt that actually fit dude um I mean I Don't know I loved it but like it took me

and my dad like 20 minutes to get in it right like my arms are stuck like this how am I supposed to how am I supposed to bench with this thing on um but I figured it out like I figured it out and I I think I still have one of the origal I should have brought it I think I have one of my original BL shirts it's like literally like this big the arms probably that big around um but yeah I just remembered like everybody Did it right it was like didn't like scare me

or freak me out um you know back then I would say like the only thing I got out of it was like if I could touch and go something I could pause it with the shirt on yeah so like whatever that is 15 20 pounds yeah maybe I being yeah that's just a teenager benching under 200 lounds you know so that's all I could get out of it um but then that gym Prince's gym they they had there was some marath fun suits But I never I never had one on I just had the inor

champion suits and like they taught me how to wear mhm how to put it on and how to squat and a lot of it was just kind of selftaught right you just like that forces you to to squat correctly almost because you have to sit back into it to get it to work right yeah um and then you you know just I don't know I just loved it I love trying to time it and build up that tension and and and stretching that material out and Getting that spring out of it I remember the first

time I ordered a Ben shirt um kind of the same frame of mind that you were like you have no idea what's just just everybody else is wearing it I ordered it with all my pumped measurements you know just for some reason in my brain I thought this is going to look better yeah that um I believe it was Ernie France somebody from there actually called me you know just to validate you know because it's Like a 20inch arm and I'm 20 35 LBS or something like that I'm like yeah of course it's all right

and then I get it and it's I can put it on myself yeah and I mean it didn't do [ __ ] then like I screwed this up but I don't want to call him back and say you know I just screwed this up and fortunately back then they weren't $500 or whatever they are now it wasn't you know so I just got another one and then um in the gym I trained at there was a crew of People there but they everybody kind of Come and Go a different time and I can't remember the

one time that they were there to put the shirt on nobody was around to get off right come on oh man that took some that took a lot of time to I ended up hooking it on like the dip ATT the dip bar handles yeah just you know to try to get the thing off and over over the years with that it just I don't know how it was for you but the carryover was okay you maybe for me 30 40 pounds that I would base if I was going to use it after my squat

you know because sometimes it's like you know what I I just don't want to deal with this [ __ ] my squat went very well yeah all I'm going to do is pick up maybe another 15 20 pounds it's not worth the [ __ ] right you know to be able to do that and I just pass on it and not use it yeah and then until you start seeing later on people getting you know 100 pounds and stuff you're like What the hell then I also started to figure out like we used to is

baby powder yeah baby powder everywhere and like that would help it slide on better and so like on and then once you wore it a few times it kind of started to fit better um so I I figured it out um and the squad suits I like I said I think I just learned that just kind of on my own there was nobody really showed me how to to use it uh me and Dana were talking I was trying to remember even like some of Those meets I'm like who I don't even remember like who

I trained with or who helped me get those on I think I did it all myself I know my stepdad would come sometimes to get the shirt on for like heavy bench days but like squat suit I just had somebody put the straps up for me that's really all you really needed yeah was too bad right I got stuck in the gym one time with that too to where the I couldn't get the straps down you know and I had to go there was a little Drugstore on the corner I had to go to the

drug store yeah asked the cashier to pull the straps down off of the thing and um but the the squat suits were a little easier to learn because you didn't have to you could still use whatever technique you were using it didn't didn't change it that much though there wasn't like a magic technique you know to be able to get more out of it yeah later it changed you know but then it was just a glorified singlet right it Just like like I always said it was like wearing like a pair of really tight jeans

or something squat in yeah did you find that you if you used it for one meet it had to become your training suit for the next meet and you need a new suit for the meet after that so no I don't remember go I had my equipment for a while like I didn't wasn't one to always be getting new stuff or changing it out I mean so the thing is is I grew right so the first meet I did was 114 You know and I've been up to every single weight class up to 220 I

competed in every weight yeah so it's getting tighter even if you so As I Grew like that one's done that doesn't fit anymore as soon as your form starts getting all messed up and you're like wait a second this doesn't this isn't working like it used to yeah and then you get a new suit um so yeah that's and and deadlift um at the time I started conventional so that didn't affect that At all and then I learned Sumo which is another crazy story that comes from Prince's gym it was like some one day I

went in because I went to I think it was uspf like Teenage Nationals and there was like I can't remember the kids name but like I was like he was like in a weight class above me I think I was in 123s and he was in 132s um heartman maybe but I seen those numbers and I was like what how is he doing that but he was I think he was a Sumo dead lifter MH so then I was like wait a second and there's also um a PA state meat teenage State meat that I

remember seeing this one kid he had a lever belt first time I ever seen one of those and he was a Sumo deadlifter but he wore the lever belt back like with the latch in the back M I was like what is that like you know between that belt being backwards and then the the latch uh and then a sumo's deadlift stance so like I got one of those belts as soon as Like got home you know got one of those belts and then I tried to learn Sumo but I couldn't figure it out and

I this random day I go to the gym and I asked Mark like he was a conventional deadlifter um and I said how how do you suumo deadlifting you want to go ask that guy over there to this day I don't know his name I never seen him again and he like and it's how I teach deadlift today like the way he taught so what did he tell you um first thing was like I Remember him saying okay no matter matter what you're going to set up this way the same every single time whatever we

come up with and he placed my feet I don't remember how he how he got the width of my feet but your feet are going to be out wide same over under hand grip um you want to you want to leave a space between your your shin and the bar so that when you go down and grab the bar your shin will just maybe touch it or maybe not but close M and you want to Sit down to the bar you don't want to bend over uh even things like taking the slack out of the

bar and taking the slack out of your arms and then almost like squatting the weight up more than so how did he explain taking that slack out of the bar because it's we didn't have deadlift bars back then yeah so it's it was like more the slack so let me I guess more he said take the slack out of your out of your Arms right yeah and so like yeah I wasn't thinking so much I mean at the time I was deadlift to maybe 300 lbs so there was no well I'm asking because it's if

if we're trying to help somebody that's what we're trying to tell them to do especially with bars that actually do Bend right but you have to have enough weight on there to actually keep the bar on the ground actually pull pull it out and um with some people I'll tell them just to listen for the click you know The bar and go from there but with what you're telling me it sounds like he was just trying you tell to to elongate your arm make your arms longer right you know so take it out so there's

no as soon as you push that bar is going to travel yeah there's not going to be any loose looseness that has to be taken out mhm um and I think that was it and and like like I said I never seen him again don't know who it was and I just that's how I learned how to deadlift Su and it ended Up working out so how were you training during this the early part of your powerlifting career I mean he's telling you what to do I assume it falls more into some kind of linear

type of model yeah it was all the linear progression type stuff so like uh you know as a general rule I'd say they they taught me like hey if if we have this competition coming up and you're eight weeks away you're going to be doing sets of eight if five weeks away You're GNA be doing sets of five if you're three weeks out thre twos ones and that was it and and we had it set up of like still how I train today and how I train my clients today the main movement and Then followed

by accessory work that ties into that movement mhm and because that gym had powerlifters and and bodybuilders I think maybe that's where they kind of merged that together on their own as a gym so what would it look like after the meat um After the meets I as I got I mean it changed throughout the years I mean I think when I was young like that I just just went back to training Monday or you know what I mean like just went back to lifton and and uh I remember being a little bit lost like

yeah what do I do now like yeah cuz you're not eight weeks out no you're like 16 and things felt heavy yeah at some point again right I don't know about in the very beginning but eventually it would be like how did I just did that on Saturday and now now I now I can't go any my warm-ups feel heavy so like I it's just Tri on air over time just competing and then listening to my body and like being like okay well I there's no way I can go heavy again um there I remember

there's times that I where I did I felt good after after the meat and I tried to jump right back into it and then like almost always got hurt mhm and then finally I was like just stop like what are you Doing like your body must need rest so I started to figure out I would go to more towards a bodybuilding routine after the meets yeah that's what I because like a mindset thing right like you're burned out you're you're kind of tired lifting heavy and so that was the way to like okay now we're

doing set 20 and like just change it up completely yeah when I was younger I would hit the meat but then try to find I take Two weeks off or and then try to find another meat another meat yeah because you're 12 weeks out yep you know just because I didn't know what to do yeah and then when I became somewhat more intelligent I used hit training in between you know so I take two weeks off then do like Menor hit training or some [ __ ] because it was hard and I went in something

hard but I also didn't want to know as you kind of pointed I didn't want to know how weak I got yeah to St Away from that yeah and I didn't understand that we Peak for a me I figured once you got strong you just stayed that way stay there would move up the higher that Peak the more it kind of comes down yeah yeah when did things move from the local level to more the national level outside of like Teenage Nationals um so you figure like I did some bench deadlift meets um I did

some teenage full meets that I think were like I don't even know what federation They were us PF maybe MH um and then at that time I was probably like 132 and then I started getting into I mean I was introduced to like the APF right away well I have to point this out when I was looking through your open powerlifting statue the only guy I know that had smaller multiply numbers than raw until I went and looked it was earlier you were just getting started yeah you know so you know just a few years

into your career you're in multili Right and how did that come to be so like the m so really I never comp I did an APF meet at 181 like in multiply but I literally sewed like two Champion suit actually was a crane suit and a champion suit together all right like that was Yeah so basically single play single play I had a denim shirt MH and and that was that was double ply that was double ply but as far as like a double ply canvas suit or anything like real kind of suit never I

never really I don't Even know if that was the round at that time either I don't know so we had like a local bench deadlift meet uh in our area and I remember one year the guys calling me from the Meet saying yo you got to come out here these guys got like four shirts on cuz like there was no rules it was just like a power liting competition unsanctioned and uh they're putting on three four bench shirts and like they're allowing it and you know their wrist wraps are three feet long um So then

that's kind of where I got the idea of like oh sew two suits together and try to do a meet but I think I squatted uh what did I squ 700 like 181 something crazy yeah um so the the single play you were asking me about like after besides teenage Nationals when did I get in yeah so like I think I think you did this meet also was it was it 95 APF senior Nationals I think I did 95 and 96 um but I was just single I just had Single play stuff then it was

a champion suit and a ener bench shirt I think in 96 the enzer made that advanced high performance heavy duty yeah one right so I think I wore that at the second senior Nationals that I did um but that's when all you guys were showing up and like the mono lift I was introduced to and um and then all the France did the monolith screw you up when you would go to a meet so I remember doing it at one of the APF Teenage Nationals like I think my stepdad was traveling I think he sent

me with like one of his friends to take me there so I like you know I had some of the guys from the gym actually I remember being there but other than that it's was kind of like on my own um and I remember like either it warm up or warmups or the day before it weigh-ins people saying like cuz nobody really a lot of people people unless you trained at Westside or something you didn't know What a mon was and I remember people saying like what just walk it out because it's going to mess

you up yeah you know what I mean like it's gonna throw you off so I think just walked it out short little walk no that's smart you know what I mean that's what they told me so that's what I did and it wasn't until those two APF senior Nationals I did where I used it um and yeah it was different I would lift it up and like I like to feel the weight so When I would walk out and step out you kind of get adjust to it and you let it settle but when I

would just like pick it up my feet were already where they should be I was like [ __ ] this you know what I mean like this doesn't feel right your ability to get tight changes yeah until you learn how to brace and like all these other things a whole different level of stuff the first time I used one was probably in a meat as well and it messed me up so that's just walking it Out and then I was a wests side a few years before we even had one you know so it and

that kind of sucked because it was Jack Dan and Lou didn't like to adjust him so if we were in a crew and he's in there you have I had to take it out on his height and when I would [ __ ] and complain about how my backs getting jacked up it was because I was weak you know and I couldn't convince him to you know you take it six inches lower than you normally do right and so the Monolift was kind of like a Saving Grace for that until he started putting bands on

it because it's going to be lighter for him and again that was just because we're weak you know weren't able to handle that but once we did get it and were able to spend time what I started to realize was what you lose from the walk out is torso strength because you you have to brace as you walk out you take that away because you're using the Monolift it has to be added somewhere in accessories to be able to keep that ability to do that and I think that's what was screwing a lot of people

up is they didn't know how to brace yeah coming out of with the pick and then sometimes you need to do it again because you don't know when the squat command's coming right it'd be great if you just took it out squat you know but usually that's not the case but I've seen a lot of people get screwed up Because of that and the simple answer is what you did just walk out just walk it out you do it all the time any right and you just got to suck it up and know that you're

really not going to get much out of using it anyway yeah when did your sites start to focus on on alltime World Records I mean I I was never one to like really like even to this day I'll take clients to the meeting like I don't even look at the records well there's got to be a point to where you wonder what You're looking at where you are and then back then was weird too yeah because we didn't have open powerlifting so no they had a folder with numbers in it right yeah where you had

to wait till the end of the year for powerlifting USA to put whatever the record I could remember just going to the meets and then lifting and then being like hey this this was a record and this was a record and this was a record oh [ __ ] cool yeah you know what I mean but like normally by the Next time I competed again or whatever I'd be up another weight class and then like so I never really was probably ready for those records or whatever so I never really looked for them or chased

them I didn't really like that alltime record um that one I wanted but it was like going if we want to go back to that that that goes back to like one of the first raw Unity meets right so like 2008 or something and if you remember back then I don't even know If they there were like that was just when raw was coming out so like they didn't even really H have a the alltime raw yeah they were trying to figure it out trying to figure it out so like I think the first one

I did like a total 1807 and I think like Eric and and everybody was like and that Johnny squez was keeping track of some records and they're like hey like as far as our knowledge like that might be the most ever lifted but yet there was people That were doing more but maybe they had knee wraps because it wasn't wasn't a thing right if they would have said take those off and this is going to be a record would have been higher probably right so at the time without any equipment other than a belt and

wrist stps and KNE sleeves um they're like I think that's the record so like right when they kind of came up with that I don't even know if it was like official given to me then it was just like kind Of like I think that's the most that was ever done and that was the end thumbs up good yeah and then uh I want to say right after that it got like because it was like um brought up that that might be be an alltime record David Ricks comes in and I think he hit like

an 1818 and so that's the first time I was like man I want like I had that and he just took away and like I can I can do that for sure and so I remember like Getting the powerlifting USA out looking in the back and I first meet I could find was one down in Tampa and it was like in the summer and I think he broke it that that winter I think and uh so like I'm just go down and beat it that's did it play out that way it did play out that

way it did I had like a I had like one of the probably one of the best Ms I ever had there so what was I because here's the dichotomy with this so what was a training cycle leading into it cuz Normally your best meets are your worst training cycles and the worst training cycle well that's true like so ironically like I had like a really bad PEC strain about a month before that meet like probably T some of it I don't know it didn't turn black and blue but it was like I couldn't unrack

a bar and it's like four weeks out and I was like man you know what I mean like I just trained for this whole thing and like Now and my bench was really good right then it was like I was benching 500s uh at 198 and um I didn't know how bad it was I just knew like I said I couldn't even unrack a bar and I was like man it's four weeks away so I went to my physical therapist um I had an MRI on it actually and then I went to my physical therapist

and he rehabbed it um just through just through rehab stuff um and I didn't bench I didn't bench for For like three weeks I didn't touch bench I just kept training though kept squatting kept deadlifting uh it didn't affect those at all and then I remember like I'm like the meets like in two weeks like what do I even open at like I don't even know what I'm going to do so I remember me and my training partner and Dana were like um let's just warm up and see how it goes and and I and

I went up to 405 and I was like okay I could bench 405 like I'm just going to stop There see what happen so this was the so this wasn't the raw Unity it was a it was a separate like raw United yeah was the Federation like Bob Gainer was like the head judge and um yeah it was down in Florida so we go down there and hear they're saying oh this is going to be on ESPN or Fox Fox Sports Network down south or whatever I never seen it on TV but the whole crew

was there TV crew was there like my hip was messed up my back was messed up I Remember like we're like we're in Tampa I could barely walk like I was sore everything hurt and I get there and they're like oh yeah it's gonna be on TV and and and I remember they like they let me lift because of travel or something they I remember them asking me like do you want to lift on Saturday or Sunday and I think I lifted on a Sunday so they like rearranged things to put everybody together Dennis Cherry

was there he did like the only Division um and I remember going into the meet and them saying like me introducing me to the camera crew like hey this is Ryan Sy he's gonna be breaking the alltime record today I'm like [ __ ] man I don't know I don't know if I'm gonna be able to like my warm-ups I was just warming up squats and I'm like my hip hurt and I was like oh man I don't even know if I could do it now the T it's gonna be on TV right um and

Dennis Cherry was there who you know Mean looked up to and one of the best bench was a 198 even though he was just going to be in the the bench only and I'm like man finally I get to kind of like compete against this guy you know indirectly and I'm not gonna be able like I'm not gonna be able to hit my best because stupid Peck um so I War I think I opened it that me to like 445 like I did probably a 405 warmup and like I did before the me that went

fine actually felt really good and then I did A 445 opener and it was like 1:35 so late um that it just ended up being one of those days where everything worked out I squatted like 625 most ever squatted like 25 pounds up for my best raw squat I benched like 530 so that was up by I think 518 was my best before that and then Bob Gainer if you know Bob um from down Florida he had lifted on Saturday and he was like hey just so you know I did a 680 deadlift And I'm

whatever he was 70 years old or late 60s You Know M you like keep that in mind you know I like all right so here I think I I broke Dave's record at 1820 on my on my second deadlift at like a 665 deadlift put me two pounds above his record so I had one more deadlift attempt left and I we went to 680 I went to 685 cuz of Bob I'm like me I'm to beat you by five pounds um and so so I ended up pulling that but the funny thing is with Dennis

is like they had me And him warm up like actually on the platform that everybody lifted on because they were like filming it and watching and they got to see both of us kind of warm up together which was cool and uh I remember him like I think his butt was off the bench I mean he was heaving it like this D is going to bomb out for sure for sure like what happened like I thought he was like a really good Venture you know and uh and what whatever reason when he did The meet

he was fine but like the way he warmed up wasn't like how he competed which I thought was was weird right um so he he back in they they threw him like in with the full meat so like when we benched even though he was Bench only he was in with the mix yeah yeah so we kind of like I was kind of competing against myself for the record and then indirectly against him MH and I remember he went he opened super heavy and I had to open super light cuz I knew what I Was

going to be able to do I think he opened at like 5:25 or something and then he went like 5:30 and then like 5:35 I mean something like that we have to look it up but it was super super close like that yeah it didn't make any sense so when he went 535 I'm like [ __ ] like do I now do I beat him do I 54 and say I beat and indirectly beat him or do I just get come here and do what I was supposed to do and get every pound I can

get to get The record so I went with the record and so I did a 530 he did a 535 at what point during that day right because you're feeling like ass you know everything went in bad at some point in time your brain had to shift and say this is actually a gift this is a good day yeah after the first squat after the first squat first I would say I think the first squat yeah and then definitely after the third one because I don't know about you but Usually if your squat goes well

the rest the rest of the meat's go pretty well yeah unless you well unless you strain unless you like blew yourself out right um but yeah if if you finished let's say that if you finished strongly on a on a squat the rest of the meat's probably going to go good um so yeah it was like after that first squat um I just felt comfortable like the crowd was you know what I mean like I had the I had Dana I had John with like everything worked out I made weight um and I I feed

off that energy so like when there's a good crowd or people watching me I tend to do better yeah well it's for the lifters that would be listening it's what I'm trying to pull out is never discount a bad day as being a bad day right until you actually have that first attempt and do everything you can to get your mind in the right place because I'm sure on that first attempt you weren't going out There saying I'm beat up I'm screwed up all this other kind of stuff you can't you got to shift yeah

that was yeah like uh you just shift yeah you just have to there's no I don't know when I had that like you got to remember too like at the time you're talking was 2010 so I I just opened a gym um you know just to get away from the gym for the for the weekend was like next to Impossible you know I mean I didn't have any money uh we had uh you know Noah was you know six Seven years old my son and get somebody to watch him so it was like a big

production to get down there and even do that so like that pressure I wanted I wanted to do the best I could because of how much work and effort it took to get there and then all your training Partners helping all the time and like I don't know I always felt that pressure that I how did your training change when you opened the gym man that's a good question too um so I had more I had more lifters to be around and so if you go back if we go back to when I opened the

gym right that's like 2007 um and before that we were lifting at like a like a Gold Gym and there was a lot of like police officers and bodybuilders and bigger guys but nobody power lifted um but like once I trained there like we start kind of recruiting people and um I met some people that knew about Westside Which I didn't really I mean I knew of it but I didn't know I wasn't like up to date on the stuff like it was just like living my life and lifting you know and they introduced me

like the chains and bands and stuff like that that gym um so that was like yeah like around probably 2,000 somewhere around there is when I got introduced to like box box squats all that type of training how did the your actual training session work though Because if you're going to Gold to train you're going there with a purpose and attack go in train leave MH and now you you you open the gym and you do everything in the gym just so gym owners kind of know this you're cleaning the toilet you're doing the membership

you're answering the questions you're answering the phone I mean there's a million things going on you can't leave the phone off the hook no I no I'm I'm dating ourselves Here right because cell phones weren that's exactly right we had actual phone so my wife I mean I would schedule I would schedule my time to stop training clients and she would come in have somebody babysit or son drive in which like a half hour drive and she would cover the gym for the from like 5 or 6 at night till 9: and we would just

train now was it after that alltime world record to where you took a Hiatus and went into Bodybuilding the first time so no so after those um like 95 senior Nationals 96 senior Nationals and figuring out the monolift thing and and seeing all the multiply gear like I can't I'm never going to win it was like Ricky crane Angelo from my side you know what I mean like I can't they're squatting 700 pounds at 165 like and you're still at the golds at the time so you don't have anybody to help you at this time

I'm like lifting at the little Fitness center in in town like sure I I that we were trying to figure out I'm like that's when I was saying like how did I even get my equipment on I don't even remember I was by myself working I had my own apartment I didn't have any money like so like those suits at the time were still expensive for the time Y and I didn't know I didn't have the people to help me get it on and off like you said get it off all that stuff so that's

when I took a break and that Was like probably like 97 like right after that 96 now with that first break did you think that you were done for good kind of yeah like life life was happening right um but I still never stopped training and then everybody always said oh you look like you know I would ask me to do compete in bodybuilding I never did oh you you should you look like a bodybuilder so then like that's when I was like well I don't really need Anybody to train with and I don't need

any equipment and like like the mpc's based in Pittsburgh and they always have the local MR Pittsburgh show and stuff I'm like May I'll just try to get ready for that so from like so I did that first show in in '98 I did a few local shows there and um and how did you doing those I did good I think I won I think I won the middleweight division or maybe I came in third and I came in third in the middleweights which Is like 176 so this was what a two-year period of time

um yeah so I the I compete so probably from like 97 I trained 98 I did that first local meet a couple local meets and then I was the same thing I think I took third and I was like man these guys are big you know what I mean like I got lean and stuff but like they were big so I took like two years yeah to try to get bigger which I think I waited in the same or I think I waited in the same actually two Years later I wait and I remember the

the guy running well you might have been leaner right so let's give you some credit I just remember the I remember Gary if you know Gary you did I remember him saying and how you how he would remember this I have no idea he was like didn't you waigh this last time two years ago CU he always wanted me to gain weight I was like yeah I did but to your point I think I looked better and I was bigger and leer different look for sure Um you know that you know how people are right

they got kind of Stick it to you a little bit so that was in 2000 then I won the middleweight Division and I lost the overall so with I'm trying to picture the training here right because you're going from the powerlifting mindset which doing a heavy single or even a triple there's I don't know if I'm want to use the word intens because I kind of use that as percentage of our weight but There's there's an effort and a mindset that kind of goes into that right then a body building you kind of get that

right if you're doing a challenge set of leg presses for yeah you you want to do 10 but you make yourself do 40 right but it's different it's different and that's super good point so I trained like a powerlifter okay I added I think I added a day so instead of three days a week it was that original schedule kind of gave you that went back to to that original Bodybuilding routine um my my original coach gave me uh 4 days a week but I would come in and still squat first but instead of it

being like you're saying a heavy single can't be that anymore I would do like heavy set of 20 remember I put 405 on and I would just try to do sets one set of 20 one because it would be everything I had if I could even get to 20 and then I would go do accessory work did that satisfy that itch It was fun yeah it was fun it was a different challenge to you know it's different it's still different but it's um it's it's pushing yourself in a like different way well do the way

I like to look at it is you you make yourself do something that you're not too sure if you could do or not yeah you know so if it is a squat for 20 you're kind of hoping you can get 15 yeah but you really want 20 right and it's how much you want to dig on that day yeah yeah Yeah that's all and I remember like going in this we were at another different gym at that point and I remember like going to the front desk and hey can you can you spot me and

they would be like you know man I'm eating my lunch you know or something stupid and like like [ __ ] all right [ __ ] you and then go do this set of 20 and like [ __ ] I don't care what you know I mean if I Collapse or or die here like it's fine I don't care it just when I got static Yeah a little bit it's picking up a little bit um so my training I if you want me to wait yeah go ahead go ahead um my I I still trained

like a powerlifter I mean I still benched I still squatted and I still deadlifted I just had like a little bit more arms and shoulder work in there and then like to end up looking good on stage was like came down to like a a little bit of cardio I didn't really do that much and diet like super strict Diet I was just like an idiot when it came to that I would do what ever like I remember like like I remember like actually going the the student teacher that got me to to Prince's gym

I remember calling him like okay like I'm GNA do this bodybuilding show now like how do I do this he was like uh baked potatoes chicken and like don't drink water for three days before the show so I literally ate chicken and potato uh whatever six times a Day I don't even remember when I started to do it how far out from the show or whatever I just started at some point I was never out of out of shape I always looked pretty lean um and then I remember like not drinking water for three days

which was probably not very smart I mean I remember having like an apple as part of my diet so there was like some fluid coming from from some of that but like literally like didn't drink for Three days um so I don't know so a little bit different than when you were cutting weight yeah yeah much yeah much difference CU When I cut for meat I just wanted to be that weight for that one moment in time and then right back to where I was and 12 hours later all right let's take a bathroom break

real quick [Music] [Music] [Music] Hey guys if you like and want to support the podcast remember we have limited edition items these items can range anywhere from t-sh shirts tank tops sweatshirts cups you never know what you're going to get check them out at www. elitefts.com so we're back so with that first stint in bodybuilding what pulled you back into powerlifting um I think uh politics of the bodybuilding like I felt like I should Have won the overall I didn't and I remember like the whole crowd like booing and it was bad and uh I

was like I'm done this is stupid you know I mean like I almost killed myself and like they don't even judge it right so I was like forget it and then what was the first meet back actually before the first meet back what did you change about your training because two years of straight bodybuilding you're going to pick up things right so then when you Went back to training for powerlifting what did you bring over so that's when I brought that's when I went to that gold gym and learned about the bands and the chains

and they kind of sparked that whole new like wait a second man like what is this stuff and um and that and became super obsessive with it and fun and then uh that gym had um some stronger guys a strong man guy I trained with for a while and some other powerlifters that were just local level Though so like that's that's what I got me back into it I said like forget the bodybuilding stuff I'll never do that never do that again yeah still 13 years lat we'll get there we'll get there but um uh

and then yeah so then I I think um luckily there was a there was a APF State Rep here uh in Pennsylvania and he was starting to hold these APF Pennsylvania state meets so that's when I picked back up and that's when I think I left off in the 165s and It at seniors and then after the bodybuilding stuff um I I came back at actually I came back I think heavier I was like 198 the first year he had he only had like two years for whatever reason like him in our area in Pittsburgh

there's never other than one guy Jeff Wright from way back uh nobody's been ever been able to hold like a big big meat like that I don't know what what it is but you would think it would be a great Place but it doesn't doesn't hasn't worked out yet um so he had those two APF meets and I did the 198 and I was like [ __ ] yeah I did I did every weight class but I skipped the 181s so I dieted down for the second state APF meet and I made the 181s that's

where I wore the I think the double ply suit um and that brings us to like 2003 and at that meet uh I met I met What ended up being uh one of my training partners and like my landlord for the gym that I opened cuz when I went there I remember weighing in and and giving my openers and I remember this dude being like what that's your openers because they're high you for this meet I was like yeah and he's like what are you weigh I was like I just weighed in at 181 and

he was like you know you think you could help me like train and I was like sure so then We hooked up uh yeah uh I so that's where I met John um and and then like so he knew some powerlifting too but he just did like uh I think mostly bench deadlift meets maybe maybe a couple IPA meets up in York so I trained him and uh this leads into like how I opened the gym and stuff I don't know yeah yeah go that um so I met him like I guess in like 2003

we start I started to train him out of that gold because Golds Was letting me train some people and that's kind of where I started doing some of the personal training stuff mhm um there was another guy there uh I don't know if you remember a guy named Steve nesbet he like was from Pittsburgh black guy bodybuilder passed away but um trained a ton of people like one of the probably biggest trainers in Pittsburgh um I also met him there and he opened up a little personal training studio and I remember him saying like I

want you to Train people out of my place here's the key I like okay like how we going to do the the money he's like I don't want anything he like train people out of my place so yeah he like literally gave me a key to this for little tiny studio um and and I was doing some training out of there and then out of Golds and I was training John out of Golds and then we just became like super good friends um I kind of had like a kind of dead end job that I

didn't like just installing Custom closets actually uh but again like a lot of all my jobs and stuff pretty much revolved around my training i' probably say MH so like well that that's the case with most LS I speak to you know what I mean yeah you know what time you're supposed to train so anything outside of that's when you can work I can make the money to do what I need to do and and that's what I was doing and uh um but it got to the point like I can't keep like I just

Can't keep doing this I don't know what I'm going to do and then a couple times I would be like I think I'm going to open a gym and i' went to your website or something looked up the equipment that I needed and be like no no I'm not where am I G to get that kind of money and like who's really going to come right like I don't know I don't know so I was back and forth on what to do there and then one day probably like three years later uh it's like 2006

uh John that that I was training um me and me and my buddy Chris were doing like some some jobs on the weekend like some concrete jobs and construction type stuff and I remember John saying like hey my dad has this Warehouse in lawrenville if you guys ever need to store like Bobcat or you know skid loader whatever like my dad has place okay like I don't know if we're going to get into this side gig that much but thanks and then when I got this idea for The gym I'm like like maybe I can't

buy new stuff right I just just can't buy it um so I'm going to look for like used stuff stuff and I'm like looking on eBay and there was like an uh a thing up for sale and it was like a whole lot for like a small personal training studio and it was like make it make an offer I was like it was in Tennessee not even close to me or anything and I'm like I put in like I think I put in like 9,000 bucks and it was like offer accept I was like [

__ ] I don't have a I don't have a building I don't I don't have anything like what do I do like I don't even know what to do so they were like ah John has that warehouse I call like hey if I go get this equipment and pick it up do you think I could store it in your dad's place I'll pay him rent he's like let me check so he calls me back he says hey uh my dad said you can just keep it there uh until he rents it out like really okay

like okay cool Lawrenville is like in the city everything I knew lawrenville was bad it was just like [ __ ] area prostitutes drugs not a good place but whatever I'll store my stuff there so me and Chris were doing the construction I asked Chris I'm like hey you come with me like I got this equipment in like Paris Tennessee and I need to go get it and and I'm like I don't know I guess I could rent a truck And then John John worked for a company that um they had like the big uh

CDL Pensky trucks 24 whatever the biggest one is but you need the CDL license to to get it so um John was like I'm going to get this truck from work I get a driver for you and you Chris and this driver he'll drive you down and you can get your stuff cool man cool so we like leave in the middle of the night like 11 o'clock at night and this guy this guy that Drove D for like 12 hours whatever the trip was never said one word and we're sitting three of us in this

little bench seat right shoulder Tosh shoulder you know those seats like a school bus and uh and I'm just thinking myself like what the [ __ ] am I doing this is insane so we we and it rained like the whole time all the way down pouring down rain to the point where like we fall asleep I like wake up look at the look at the windshield and It's totally fogged over like I can't see out of it and this dude's driving I like wake Chris up like like [ __ ] so I'm like trying

to turn on the [ __ ] the froster this I just remember thinging this is so crazy we we finally get there in the morning I go to this this address they gave me and it's like this little tiny house in this like dirt road like knock on the door and this little lady like unlocks the door and opens the door like that much it's like three chains You know mean there's like three chains going across and she was like uh my daughter will be here soon and I like shuts the door and I was

like what the [ __ ] is this so we we like slept on the porch on our front porch like all laying waiting trying to figure out what's going on next thing you know this like Trans Am likeing rips up right and it's this blond aired chick she's like follow me [ __ ] we get we get in the truck we follow her to this like storage unit and She opens up the storage unit and it's like all this like 1980 Universal Equipment which backing up whenever I got that whenever I made that offer I

ended up talking to the guy who ended up he was like I'm California but my mom's taking care of this stuff um it's like all new blah blah blah so I get there and open it up and it's like this [ __ ] hasn't been touched forever and it's like stacked and packed in two of these units like the padding's Indented cuz shit's on top of [ __ ] the treadmills are like from something me and you have never even seen like you know what I mean like early 80s like the like the LED light

like bad and like 800 lounds a piece and uh and we had a liftgate on this truck so like okay cool uh so we like I'm like what do I do like I don't know what to do like do I just go home or do I take this [ __ ] or like do I get refunded or like how do you dispute this and I remember like Just being like [ __ ] it let's just load it up I just going to bring it home I don't know what to do so we like load the

whole truck right and there's more left [ __ ] so we go we we have to go rent a second truck one that I could one that I could drive right like a smaller one you don't need a license for so we go run a second truck pull that up start loading stuff in well when you know everything that's left is too tall for this truck because this one's Smaller so we got to like empty the first truck sort out the high stuff the low stuff and we get it all situated and we we drive

back home and I drive to this place I've never been to where I ended up opening up the gym and we store it there and uh and I would go after work every night so work 9 to5 uh drive to drive a half hour to lawrenville and like try to like recuperate this [ __ ] and like clean it because it's all Chrome it's all old School Chrome stuff it's like rusted and so I would just go every night and like detail it basically and try to get it working so I'm like well meanwhile I

don't have a place to put any of this for a gym like I don't have a spot in mind or nothing uh so we're looking I can't find [ __ ] and and so I'm like you know what [ __ ] it we're here like I'm gonna I'm gonna train while I have all this equipment so we started train there And then I remember like all people started showing up right like a lot of people didn't even know and friends and and we're all training every evening so this is the best time in the world

man it was like awesome I'm not paying rent I got my own gym di kind of um other than it's in a shitty area I mean there's drug deals going on out in the alleyway every night super sketchy and I remember eventually like I had to pay the electric and stuff so Like I put a sign up like five bucks a workout and so people would pay like Le five bucks every time they came but they only come when when we were there you know it wasn't like yeah yeah so so it turns out this

little this little area we were in uh lawrenville I guess they contacted the landlord and they were like Hey we're trying to revitalize this area and we know you have this place empty can we walk through and I guess like see what they Can do with it and so when they walked through they said hey uh like what's all this stuff and they're like oh this kid's trying to open up a gym and they're like well why doesn't he open it up here like lawrenville doesn't have a gym and she I don't know like we'll

ask them so they asked me like hey did you just want to put the gym here meanwhile it's like a three-story building the bottom is um like garage space with garage doors the second level was Actually like street level cuz there was an alley back here and then there was a third story that um this was like a his dad built for like a construction company so like downstairs was all the dump truck stuff second level was like actually was a woodworking shop and the third level was like like his office space so I'm like

well how do I even how do I even like one room was like a paint booth type of room there's only two rooms in the second floor I'm like how Do I even like I don't I can't even visualize how I could even make this a gym like four parking spaces you know there's an empty lot beside us though like okay well maybe we can use that lot and then because of the bathroom upstairs and John was in construction thank God you know what I mean and he was a woodworker and you know so he

like helped build this place out his brother was an architect drawings and uh so so we would get it all mapped out like okay Okay on the third floor we're going to put the cardio room we're going to put the locker rooms and showers on that second floor we'll put the gym and those are the two places I was going to rent um so I'm like cool I can get out of the [ __ ] job like just gonna quit like so this is like 2000 yeah like so the idea came about like in 2006

and then 2007 rolled around and like I think we're were like pretty much ready like it was built out And everything was done I didn't do anything really the right way I just did it you know and um and so so like come January I'm like Fu I'm quitting my job quit my job and then they're like oh you need like an occupancy permit all this [ __ ] I don't know like what is that um so the city of Pittsburgh super slow I mean it was taken forever you couldn't get anybody to do anything

um nobody was calling me back um because There's like this whole thing they're like oh you have to you're going to need an elevator cuz your cardio is on the third floor like how much is an elevator you know like whatever it was $40,000 put elevator in like you can't put an elevator meanwhile you remember it's all built out like I've already did all this MH and they're like okay well if you don't have an elevator you at least have to like fire rate the the ceiling of the place below And have a sprinkler system

put in which was like 40 Grand or something too like I can't I don't have anything I just I had you know I don't I quit my job I don't have any money like I bought all this equipment that's old as [ __ ] like I don't know what to do and uh I remember nobody calling us back like the building inspector because they kept saying I needed that because we're on the second and third floor I'm like yeah but we're actually on ground level on this floor Right but on the drawings they're like no

you're on the second l so I remember like the building inspector we were trying to proba he kept giving me a run around run around and one day I was like [ __ ] it I'm just [ __ ] driving down there I'm going to find this [ __ ] mhm face to face so we we literally drove down I walked through the whatever that was city county building and uh and I found this guy I was like yo why aren't you calling me back like like my whole Future is on the line here and

you're [ __ ] around you know and and it's only because you're looking at the drawings and and not listening into what I'm saying I don't think I need the elevator or the sprinkler system and he like brought us in this room and like brought out the drawings I explained it to him and then he was like oh you're good I was like what because there was like two fire exits and it had to be like a certain distance apart or Something and we were within that range and everything was good meanwhile you know it's

been like I well we didn't open till like June so Jan like six months I wasn't working and I was just training and that's where that's where that um actually before I even opened in the middle of that time frame somewhere 2006 in the early part of 2006 like in the spring we found that new on the recordbreaker raw meat right So this is raw and I'm like cool like I don't have that's like one of the first ones too yeah I'm like I don't I don't need the equipment that I couldn't afford and and

train for and we've been training at my place and we got a good crew together and like uh and like I got like an invite to go to go do this meet remember it was like oh everybody going to take off their gear and we're going to see what everybody can do yeah there was like all kinds of chaos behind that No it was great it was crazy right you remember oh yeah I totally remember if you were sponsored by inzer you weren't allowed to do it you weren't this and that um uh but like

Ed con was part of it um um uh what their names Jan Todd and Terry right am I saying that right yeah yeah they were part of it kasmire was going to be like the announcer and uh all these big names were supposed to show up right Mike Miller Donnie Thompson Scott Smith um uh God I'm trying to remember all kinds of people came out of the wood work to go do this meet right and it was in like Massachusetts so here I am like I said I'm not working I have no money I like

have this gym that I don't really have yet with no members and I'm not open and uh a three-year-old son and I'm like I'm gonna go I'm just gonna go do this meet so me John Dana we even brought no with us um Sam bird was in it Right um and I go to this thing and I'm like holy [ __ ] I've been out of the loop you know what I mean these guys are Nick winners like I'm like holy [ __ ] like this is a whole different level here um EDC was given

the the the rules Clinic you know what I mean like this is and I had met Ed before like through the uspf and some of the meets that I did there because like in that open p lifting there's a lot of meets I did that aren't that aren't on there you know it's Probably a little whatever I don't know yeah the results are gone back then so we we go into this meet and uh and it was supposed to be for money God never said how much but it's going to be money prizes and Canna

win money so I'm like okay like I'm gonna win some money and it's going to help me with the gym and this is going to be great right yeah so and and to win the money it was like a pound-for-pound best lifter it's just strictly pound for pound um so I go There I remember seeing like Sam bird warming up squats I'm like what the [ __ ] man this guy's a freak like everybody was Freaks and uh anyway I ended up winning the overall pound-for-pound yeah and uh like cool I wonder how much money

I'm going to win and long story short there was no money no money and the and the two guys running it like one talked to all the lifters before the meet to like recruit you in and then when you got there like That guy wasn't around and you're now you're talking to this other guy and uh and they were like we're like oh what's with the money and uh they're like oh well um we had they had like a uh MMA fights that night it was like a big thing right like a power lifting in

the morning and then MMA fights tonight they're like well we're going to do the MMA fights and whatever money we bring in from the fights we're going to we're going to give out right so we like hang Out we're waiting just watching stupid fights like just want to get money and go home and like fights are over and like everybody's leaving and like what the [ __ ] and I remember a couple of us uh got this guy in the back right yo where's the money and like and he was like uh there was like

a table like this and he was like there was a there was a box on that table a cash box it seems to be gone like what he's Like yeah somebody must have stole the money from the fights like get out of here man and so we you know we never got paid uh we went home and I remember calling back and forth calling those guys the meet directors and giving us the runaround and number you got paid which we probably should have known that already yeah you would think you would think so but I

was like so you know probably desperate for money and and I was so Excited that I won and like you know what I mean it was advertised as money so but I met Sam bird I met Donnie Thompson I met Nick wyers you know I mean all guys that have you know helped me along the way so what was it like for you coming up at that time because as you said the the companies that were supporting you know not just inor but all all of them didn't like this right obviously right because what are

they gonna sell belts and wraps yeah you know If that but then online there was a backlash that was huge remember you know which was and I I remember all this because we were sponsoring Eric tomman at the time which he was trying to work on this whole rum thing and he was raw on all this so I kind of from an outsider looking in would see all this and be like this is interesting I wonder how this is going to play out right because you would think that the companies that kind of support the

sport Would have the upper hand but ended up they didn't yeah you know because raw blew up after that which isn't in the best interest of any of those companies right you know at that time at that time right at that time things Chang now but the the online stuff was very interesting to kind of watch and it only Amplified when some of the well basically everybody was coming out of gear to do it because there really wasn't anything else but the multiply Guys that were coming out were just getting lambasted as well right right

well yeah like I know like at the time remember Mike Miller was like was he squatting over a th000 pounds or something and he went there and I think he bombed out at like 600 lbs M you know it was like it was just interesting because like well you know and I know when you're training gear like you have to train in gear to be good you can't like I was one of the few that was able To kind of go back and forth with the raw stff or with the single P stuff but like

multiply and back and forth to Raw like you can't do good at both right at least I haven't Donnie Thompson I guess you could say did did pretty well they would need more time the the way that I explained that is there's there's when you have the gear on there's like neuro feedback loops you like when you pick something even with a single play you you know where your hips Are or where they should be based upon the tension that you're feeling through the suit right now you take that out you need to reestablish that

all raw right and that's not going to happen in a week no you know it's it's going to take where it was interesting during that time because You' see some people that would be in single ply or multiply then they go raw and their numbers are not real good and then slowly over time they get way better and then they would Attribute it to program X Y or Z and it's like no you always had that strength just took a while you just weren't displaying it right because you didn't have the Tactical feedback right that

you normally have but then it comes back back up and vice versa you know when they go back in they didn't know what the hell they were supposed to do no it feels horrible all that [ __ ] back on again um but yeah so that was in 2006 and then yeah so it took Eric a few Years before he started the raw Unity like 2008 um but that that first New England record break me was like one of the ones that kind of opened up that whole door to the to the I think so

I think if there if there there may I don't know if there were any you know but I'm going to give credit and say maybe there were but they didn't pull anybody yeah not the Nam they didn't pull the caliber to be able to say hey look there's a there's a real interest Here and even the people that hated it were still waiting for the results sure right so that that was the interesting thing to me is all the haters and all the other kind of stuff were the first people you know to go look

to see how everybody did for sure you know and be able to see yeah and then it just you know kind of took off from there what did you do after that meet after new New England recordbreaker meet um I tore my doctor so I missed a 600 lb I I I took a Third attempt of a 600 pound squat there and I and I cut it high I knew I I couldn't I wasn't going to be able to squat it so I cut a little bit high they like let's just hope I get it

right and then I was red lighted and so I remember being like I know I can do that and it was like right what we just talked about right like I now I have a monol lift at the gym and everything right so I'm like [ __ ] put 600 on I I could have did it a couple weeks ago I'm was going to do It and I remember going down I remember going down and coming out of the hole and like somebody putting a blowtorch to the inside of my thigh and and yeah I

to I tore it right I I didn't know exactly what I did but I know I never felt that before and uh I'm like checking it I'm like no it's not black and blue like I'll be good even though like I can't walk or go up steps or anything and then like I remember it took three days right and the third day I got like a quarter size black and blue Mark like oh this just this little little tiny tear M by like 24 hours later like my whole hip to ankle black m and I'm

just opening up this gym I can't squat now you know what I mean we we had poured molded like a strong man Stone I couldn't I couldn't mess with that I couldn't do nothing I was so bummed at I'm like here I am just getting this gym together got a good crew just won the overall at this meet and now like I just [ __ ] myself up and it took like a year to recover from that ad doctor take a long time when that bled out down to your your calves and shins was that

one of the most pain because I've done that before and the most painful thing about it wasn't the adductor it's when all the blood started to settle in my C shin and every time I would stand up to do anything or take a pee it was UN it was like this is the worst thing I've ever done and it was like three weeks after Doing it to yeah I can remember being painful and like that throbbing type and like steps or like going down like into that squat position like pick up something or like that

stone I remember like there's no way I could do it m so that was kind of like a a bummer and a lesson too like okay like after me like you can't you gota you got to relax right yeah I would have hoped you would have learned I learned my lesson there man before before I all time world Record I know I was just excited right I was so excited and I knew I could do and I still I didn't do it again right it's twice I missed it um so that took me like a

year so now it brings this 2007 and then then Eric start putting out for that raw Unity I'm like okay well here we go this is actually over the last couple years started to catch on and I'm gonna I'm gonna train for this um at the same time I Found uh what was uspf at the time that later turned in the USPA the uspf had um had their uh uh meet out in California um with the Olympia the America cup yeah American Cup they called it wasn't that single ply single yeah so here's the thing

Eric's gonna have his in January American cups in January one's raw one's single ply um and so Erics was first and three weeks later was the single play American Cup and uh and I did both I when I won the I won The unity and I I won a way class like it was in groups then right like I think 181 198 220 um middleweight class and then they also had a bench only section and they were giving away money for that funny there was some money meets back then and then the American Cup was

giv out a grand for best lifter too um so again I'm like I'm gonna go win the money I was supposed to win last time right so we go down to Tampa I win I win the best Lifter there and I win the overall best bench there so I won like 900 bucks I think it was uh meanwhile cost us like two grand two grand to go but whatever it's still fun and uh so I did that and then three weeks later we flew out to California and I won the American Cup and then won

a thousand bucks there it's like cool this is great all this but um how did you train for that did you train all raw and then go into the gear the last three weeks how did I was we I was Looking yesterday to try to remember I have all these log books and I cannot find them when we move the gym I just don't know what I did with them but from what I remember like I it's like kind of conjugate type method that I did right like with with equipment and using briefs and wraps

and reverse bands as a way to to mimic the gear but to train raw right CU I didn't have the suit on but I could do like a reverse Band squat with like shitty pair of brief single P briefs and a shitty pair of knee wraps right so like kind of like a suit but not nearly to that extent but it would keep me healthy keep my joints healthy and I could still overload and train heavy so I I just kind of intermix those together right so I would like train raw but it might be

um maybe I warm up raw with just my knee sleeves on and then then I would do additional sets with a pair of briefs knee waps and Reverse bands okay you know what I mean like play play play both in the same workout and it worked it worked really well how long did you compete then until you went back into bodybuilding so the bodybuilding didn't happen till 2013 so I competed from 2006 again till 2012 was my last me and when I was done 2012 ire lifting like I said even though I S I'd never

do the bodybuilding again I'm like well well how did you know that was you were going to be done with powerlifting That time so I had so I did the Olympia meet in 2010 uh 2010 yeah I think it was 2010 so I broke that record in the summer the raw one and then that fall I did their Olympia one out in California and I had I I total 2 198 there was my highest total ever again one of those meats had two of those meats like back toback one Rob one single play in the

same year right but that never Happ like how many meets like that do you get two yeah like Your whole career Two I got two um so when I did that uh I lost track of what I was what I was saying your your question was um why go back or why I don't want to say quit but why walk away from powerlifting yeah so I I finished up that Olympia meet best total I ever had and then here like somebody at the gym asked me to help him uh load this motorcycle and uh and

long story short I'm helping them load this Bike on this ramp and I like they were they were pushing the bike and they were pushing it too hard and like had this I had this the handlebars in my hand so when I went to like correct it from them pushing I just like steep side Ste and I was like [ __ ] something something's not right right like I felt something but if you would have watched it you'd have been like what are you talking about you just stepped you know and I was like maybe

it's nothing and Then like whatever three days later I like couldn't walk so I like tore my Meniscus basically and it was right after that meet and um uh we touched on this briefly before so once I tore that meniscus um wasn't sure what was wrong I kept squat I could squat but like it would swell up and be super stiff and they'd drain like 30 cc's of fluid out of it and next week it'll be swollen again they drain it again and then I went to do an MRI and they're like we Can't even

MRI it's filled with fluid let's we got to drain it again and uh and they said like the miniscus was torn blah blah blah so I waited like six months I think and then I had that repaired uh so that brings us to 2011 yeah in Spring of 2011 I had that repaired and I was like okay he's like actually it was just like frayed and there was [ __ ] floating in there looked like a one of those snowballs you shake up he's like so I just basically cleaned It up I'm like cool like

what what are the restrictions he's like you don't have no restrictions just like like let pain be your your guide [ __ ] it's not the right thing to say right I'm just gonna go so I remember I had that done on a Friday Monday I was back to work training people all day at bench that day right back to normal so stupid uh started to squat again I mean the bar but I would break out in like a cold sweat like it wasn't super painful from I guess cuz it already had arthritis in it

and I think once they go in there and mess with it after that it just gets super pissed off but I remember like the first 10 days when they call to check up on you I'm like man this feels great I don't know why I didn't do this sooner like this is this is amazing I feel awesome and like for whatever reason I like went to do my own re because they're like do you want rehab I'm like no man I'm G rehab this myself you know And I get on the recomm bike and I

ride it for like 10 minutes and then like from that point on it was jacked it just I don't know what I did to it or what happened but it got to the point where like even if I'd like move the sheets in bed or whatever like wake me up but there was that that following January 2012 was um Steve Dennison's California meet again the American Cup and I wanted to I wanted to go because I ended up like Alternating um every other year like one year do the raw meet one year do the single

ply back and forth and I was like my single P year and uh I'm like I'm going to get ready for this meat and I just forced it and I think when I forced it uh it messed up my hip which messed up my I was having really bad back problems like I remember like squatting I would rack the weight and like my whole leg would just be shaking for five minutes and like you know and It would only hurt like when I so strange I could unrack it I could walk it out and I

could squat it and I walk it back in and the second I'd put it back on the rack like dropped to my knees mhm I like what what is that like what is that I don't know what that is but it sucks um right like well at least it wasn't during the LIF yeah like as long as I have my [ __ ] on suit on knee wraps and like my belt I'm good and so I trained and I came back way too soon Because I just had I just felt like time was running out

and I kept getting hurt and like I was going to do this meet and back then it was starting to get a little bit bigger on the internet so people are following you now I have sponsors now and I just like felt that pressure to go do it um and so I I did that meat and I did pretty I did really well actually I missed um I missed the this is a funny story The Very opening attempt to squats I go up and I I don't Know what it was like in the low sixes

I unrack it and uh and I'm like man this platform's like it's bouncy right whenever like walk back and I'm like having trouble walking back like my feet are stuck to the floor and I'm like what the [ __ ] is going on and like stabiliz I'm like I cut weight right so maybe it's that and I'm like falling I could feel myself falling backwards so I as I hear squat I'm I'm already I'm walking it in To reite to like rewalk it out but I think he's seen me having trouble the head judge and

like gave me the squat man before I everever before you yeah before I ever gave eye contact and set ready yeah so I rack it and they're like no lift and I was like wait a second man like I never said I was ready and they're like it's too late so like now I'm like okay this is the first me back from from knee surgery like was it the platform or was it just Me like so I have to retake theing opener again because I don't want to I just flew out to California I don't

want to like bomb out you know so like that like screwed up my plans obviously right so then I retook it on the second and then I I think I got like a six 678 squat which like my best was like 7-Eleven so like not not too bad for like nine months of after having your knee scoped um and Then back then you were there was like those shirts were getting really really out of hand and tight and and and the in the uspf um was it uspf then or us PA and make I think

that was his first USPA mve actually and you weren't allowed to belly bench they were saying right so you not allowed to touch the bar on your belly had touch on your chest well there's people there touching on their Belly you know and I I it's like the Sumo versus conventional like I could have did it too but I was wasn't good at that so I just stuck with what I knew and long story short I got beat and uh I so mad I I total like n 1970 or something close to my my best

but but I lost and and I was all jacked up and and I'm like I can't I don't know if I can keep doing this anymore you know it's just like not not worth it to wear and tear of my body and then that's where I Got the idea to go back to bodybuilding then how long until your next so that was that was 2012 in January and then I did a local show um the next spring so 2013 how long did it take you to get to the Masters Nationals and win that um man

I did that like either that year or the next year I think see I have to look it up 2014 maybe yeah so like I did this like little local show and I and it's funny because I I got cortisone put in my back In the facet joints and I remember going in and I was like 8 weeks out from the show and they're like we're going to put this qutis Zone in I'm like yeah the Corone like let me explain something to you right like I'm doing this bodybuilding show trying to explain to these

these doctors like what I'm going to be doing and I'm like I can't have any fluid retention like is this is this core Zone gonna gonna mess me up like no what are you talking about this is um This won't be systemic this goes in the in the joint and it's just such a tiny amount you'll be fine like are you sure they're like yeah Okay cool so I get the shots in my back which didn't help and uh and I'm biing like it's been 13 years right so like I've been out of the loop

I'm doing what I what I did before and uh chicken and potatoes chicken potatoes and and and like cardio like a lot of cardio this time I'm like well I'm also older maybe maybe my Body's changed I don't know but I can't lose nothing I'm I'm doing two 50 minute sessions a day seven days a week I'm training like five or six days a week dieting and like at nothing's changed and this Show's getting closer and closer I'm like it has to be this cortisone it has to be so I started looking at up like

high FES and trying to figure out like when's this [ __ ] going to be out of me and uh and I figure out like it looks like G to be Like six weeks and uh sure enough man like six weeks it's like everything start coming off I remember doing cardio before this when it wasn't coming off and I would be like sweating like I never sweat before something was going on with that um but once that got out of me like it was like magic in the last two weeks it just all came together

it was like almost like it knew I did all that cardio and just like put me back where I should be so I go to the show And I and I win the weight class and I win the overall cool like finally win the overall to the the local show uh actually I got to back up so when I wasn't losing the weight and I was questioning like what I knew or if it was the age or whatever I ended up reaching out to a to a dieting coach uh so I I got somebody to

help me and uh and that's where they once I won the overall he's like hey you should go do You know Masters and all that stuff so so he helped me get ready for a few shows and and and we did pretty good together um and then I even got Dana to do a few shows um she probably going to kill me for that too but both of us doing the show you died down before but we did good we did good together um uh so yeah I did I did that from like 2013 to

16 switch coaches in the middle there um and that worked out pretty well So like one was more you know low carb low fat um tons of cardio and the other guy was more um uh carb friendly and and more like a healthier healthier way to do it and I looked better that way um so I did that and until like yeah 2016 and at that point it was like just getting ridiculous too same same stuff same politics stuff and like you know when I said I would never do it and I opened the gym

I'm like well it would be Impossible because now I'm training people all day and like you know that'll that'll never happen and then when I got the idea to do it is like oh [ __ ] I'll just schedule my I scheduled three people in a row and and an hour off and I would eat three people in a row and I and eat every three hours and all that but after the shows I would like I would binge man so bad and I would get super sick and I'd end up in the hospital every

time every time okay so what do You mean by binge right because there's just four weeks I mean obviously there's the day after so let me let me go back to one of the that 2000 show that I did I gained after the show I gained like 40 PBS in 5 days I've done that before so actually it's worse for you cuz you're way lighter I was 240 yeah but you know what I mean like bad it's fun though it's so fun until it's not do you can't walk or breathe or you know you're short

of breath and you're starting to wonder What's going on um so like yeah I think just from so strict once I would get a taste of something and just like would just pound it man mhm and then like it's like you're enhanced almost right you're so sensitive to that stuff you see like instant you know we work so hard to gain 40 pounds you telling me you could do it in four days let's [ __ ] go right well it's for a while there you look amazing too oh yeah you're you're so full it's like

man I put on 30 pounds I'm more Vascular and two weeks later you're a blob right it's like oh [ __ ] you know I got a funny story I had um an interview at the airport um Pittsburgh airport after that 2000 show show and uh and it was like the week after the show where I just gained all this weight right you know airports and how much you got to walk and and put a suit suit and the tie on and all this stuff and and I drive there and like parked and like dude

I couldn't Walk I had shin splints do you know what I mean I'm I'm completely the whole suit I'm soaked I'm soaked and sweat I can't find this stupid [ __ ] room in this airport that I'm supposed to do this interview in I'm like 30 minutes late I'm look for a wheelchair to [ __ ] to get there right and uh and I finally find the room and they're like oh you're 30 minutes late meanwhile I'm like I can't breathe I'm sweating I'm bloated as H and uh they're like here you got to fill

Out this application dude I can't write my hands are just full you know what I mean like my hands are pumped my wrists are pumped my forearms I'm like I'm never getting this job which I didn't get the [Laughter] job but um I don't know what made me re like want to do that I knew every time I would do it I would get sick but it just just can't stop now with training just for for Powerlifting it evolved over a period of time so what did that end up looking like for you once everything

was kind of figured out because I think everybody has to screw up make mistakes figure things out for themselves if there anything through the podcast I'm trying to teach people is there's there's multitude of numerous ways to get to the top Yeah but the one commonality amongst all of them is they figure out what works for themselves right and and that Depends on like a bunch of things right like just what you have going on in your everyday life all these injuries that you end up accumulating got to adjust for um so it it changed

it changed a lot towards the end I remember like you know I would usually um squat on Monday bench press on Wednesday deadlift on Friday did that for most mostly my whole powerlifting career but then like for that last meet 2012 when my back start getting funky and KNE and hip and all This stuff um like I couldn't I was like let me just combine my Squat and my deadlift together on Monday and then that way I'll get like a full seven days rest before I gota do it again because like Monday Friday just wasn't

working by by Monday I again I couldn't squat you know like I would do a half ass workout and then my deadlift would be [ __ ] up and like so yeah I put it together on I would do like Monday I would squat in deadlift with the Majority of the time being mostly Squat and then just kind of one kind of topish set for deadlift and and then that would be it and then I think the very next day I would bench I forget how I did it maybe it was Wednesday I would bench

and then on and then I had another day that was like I started to introduce speed squats which I never really did other than to to like almost like a D Lo type of workout so I had like a second squat day In there uh which was just speed work and then back work and that that worked really good for for that time right so like you're right it just it just changes every meet I got ready for I did something different for but how did you view accessory work um I put it super high

priority I mean I did uh since maybe because of the bodybuilding or for whatever reason because I wanted to try to still look good I always Incorporated it and then I would as I got as I got Better at it I would try to find uh I would try to find what accessory movements had the biggest impact on my lifts and then those are the ones I would do you know I mean like so like uh like for example you can do like tricep push Downs right and like maybe you got half the stack on

and and you bench whatever 400 pounds and then you like get strong enough to do the whole stack but like your bench is still 400 lbs but like um like those dumbbell floor Extensions that I learned from you guys uh I would find when those got stronger my bench went up every so that was part of my tricep workout you know what I mean so anything that I felt that I would do that had an impact on those lifts would be my accessory movements so with your your main movements did you still stay with the

eight probably fell off off but did you stay with like fives and threes as you would peek into a meat yes now how would the accessories change Per um they would go out they would they would do the same they would increase the weight and probably drop the Reps but most of the time is like I would say three sets eight would be average is it the same one or are you changing them each training session because if let's say if it's if you're peing a squat bench or deadlift in it's in that linear style

you're going to I want a 700 squat you're going to work it back right right now with rolling dumbbell extensions It's okay I need to use 90s if you roll that back you're using like 15s yeah yeah yeah you know so how did you did you just manage that based upon how hard you were working those I think I just Managed IT by on how I felt um I just would go by how I feel and like I would always try to write up a plan and and and like map it out like so a

lot of the meets that I did you have to remember back in the powerlifting USA days like you might open up the back of The magazine and be like [ __ ] there's like I mean I never had time to train for me it was always like well there's one in six weeks yeah right it was very rarely did did I know any longer ahead of time than that except towards the end where I started to know like okay I'm going to do this one in January and this one in January but before that it

would be like I SW I mean I'm telling almost everyone I did I super short notice and I just do it but like kind of like the Wests side guys right like when you kind of train heavy all the time and other than modifying some things to Peak it's kind of there so that's how I trained I was always always pushing like yeah I just always tried to get better and stronger like even back from 15 like even like I always was like trying to figure out yeah basically how to get stronger where whether it

came to like what I ate you know I can remember trying to do like Tablespoon of honey before and he like a 15 years old just seeing like what kind of outcome it would have so I always kind of played with all those other variables that probably people never think about with with the main lift where where I'm getting at is you know we can talk RP or reps and Reserve or all these other things but they're to me they're very hard to Define because they're very subjective you know the if you're working with a

beginner you know Their definition of hard work is the hardest they've ever worked but it may not be that hard right they just don't know what where when you lay out those big lifts then you kind of fold it all back and week 12 is 440 for three sets eight it's not hard right and you know you could probably do 20 right but you're not going to because you have next week because that's the next week it could impact that um we'll talk about triples later because that this changes When the heway gets heavier but

on the accessories you know the intent with that can kind of change or should change the more accessories you're doing so say the first accessory you're going to push hard well you can and that one you may not be able to extend out for more than a few weeks because if it's in three to five rep range or six rep range you can only progress so far you know with that but with most lifters that I know when they get to those accessories the intent And the effort is hard there may be one rep they're

not going to failure on any of this [ __ ] right at that level but they're close M they're definitely close now as you move down in like the last movements push Downs p r rope push Downs whatever curs whatever to get a pump yeah I mean that's just pump work and you know it's that could go to failure but only because you're going to lower the you're going to use a slower Tempo you're just going to do something it's Not gonna you're not going to have to systemically recover from that unless you're an idiot

you know doing cheat barbell curls or you know hammer curls with 140 lb dumbbells or like that um but on the the top end accessory work where you there I call it a Runway right like how many weeks can you get out of this right you know so if it's a three board prast and you want to run it for three weeks you can't totally bust your Ass on it you you leave maybe one or two then the next week more more then you're going to go more and then maybe after the third week you're

like you know what that last week was it's time to swi I I don't think I got another five pounds on this it's time to switch it out that's what I would do and I learned that from from you guys from my side right rotating every three four weeks knowing that uh it's like and everybody's Different like you're saying so like some of my clients maybe I can run something for seven eight weeks you know before before I see it coming and then for that person I know like okay like they can usually only progress

like this for about seven weeks and so before you have that shitty week that you know is coming they just switch up the exercise yeah for for those beginners they don't know how to really do the movement so the first three or four weeks yeah right At one level I could say they're not getting stronger they're just getting better at the movement definitely right then the last few they're getting stronger where the more advanced you get you know that skill yeah so you're getting stronger from the first to the second like you guys could rotate

every week and be fine right yes yeah but like yeah like you said it's going to take a couple times to even learn the movement and get the motor patterns down yeah and It's the intent you know it's what is the movement being done for I think that gets lost a little bit today as well where no matter what program you look at if it's conate or however somebody does something you got a main movement which is programmed out or should be and it it will change by the way we'll talk about it will change

no matter what you put on paper it's going to change if it doesn't something wrong right I I just would have a plan and Then I would go in like this is what I'm supposed to do today you warm up and then it's like we're changing this yeah it's a template more or less change it right yeah and then that intent As you move down of how hard you're going to push gets less and less and less and less with each movement where the bottom movements sometimes you need to do them you know if it's

ab work or [ __ ] work or you don't want nobody wants to do the [ __ ] yeah you know but need to but the Intent not that hard right and that's how my training set up with myself and my clients is that main movement and then like I don't know let's just say chest for example you bench press right and then maybe I'll do a variation to that like an incline dumbbell and then more of like an isolation movement like some kind of fly you know what I mean so you get like kind

of three different movements and then that last one like you're saying is just for a pump and Lights and you're just doing it yeah basically to do have you found with the beginners and even intermediates sticking in the isolation movements you know mid session or late session helps him to develop um mind muscle connection yeah because I think that that's another thing that's very overlooked because I'll get asked sometimes should beginners be doing isolation movements and obviously the answer is always it depends right but to me yeah they should Because they have to learn what

their tricep feels like like if it's pumped and how to how to flex right you know at one point everybody knows how to flex their packs at the highest level you can flex your tricep just sitting there your bicep your quad your cab Without Really Right Moving anything right they're not there right and it's very hard to teach them that on only compound lifts where they can't focus on that body part I think that's a great thing from Bodybuilding that can you know pull into power lifting AB is a lot of movements too like side

raises you you don't need to use 70 pound side raises no 20s whatever yeah tighten the intent yeah do it right and you get more out of it yeah right your side raise isn't going to make your Bend stronger right the stabilization maybe right but generally no right right you're doing it for joint health or whatever to recognize the next day when maybe your shoulders are sore Like oh that that movement is what makes you know like that's the muscle that's making that movement yeah and if they make that accessory if they cheat enough on

it the accessory essentially becomes a compound movement which now you're going to have that systemic fatigue which is going to inhibit that next training session if you're doing 80 pound side raises and you're swinging them all up right that's basically your bench might not be so Good your bench isn't going to be so good right because everything's shot your lower back shot everything's shot so it has that impact there as well that's that's a super good point and in fact I just did it with a client last week where uh we did we did like

a two board bench press session and then then I had them do like flies and then we went back to like a barbell movement MH you know because like found like a you know found like a Sticking point and wanted to make sure that's what it was but like you can play around with those movements for sure I have I have them put in everybody's program now when you're in the phase of the heavy triples this this is where it becomes a fun conversation and let's just assume there's one set of three would just make

it easy all right so one set of three and you're going through that set and second rep is super easy let's say You're six weeks out second rep is super easy the third rep is kind of easy some people will think you should do more right or or do a fourth rep with an AM wrap but they don't think next week the weight goes up another 15 pounds right you know so there's a time and a place stick to the plan you know for that so you stick to the plan unless there's other variables you

know anabolics could be one or just weight gain let's just say weight gain make it Easy you know if somebody's gaining weight into the meat and they're up 30 pounds right and everything else is stronger you know I still say stick to the plan but the next week maybe add another adjust for you adjust for it right yes I would I agree 100% yeah that's uh that's the line we WR that's like the question we always got to be able to answer right like do yeah do you push it or or you don't and like

you said that Comes down to what you have coming up the next week maybe the next week you have programmed like it's going to be a lighter week for whatever reason you because like I'll program that in there if I was getting ready for me like knowing like damn dude if if this works out that way like you just went like four weeks super hard so like I'm gonna make this fifth week like a like a lighter lighter workout right so maybe that fourth one before that one it feels Like what you're saying maybe you

push a little more because you know you got a lighter one coming up mhm or on the opposite end of that say it's a triple and the first one feels like trash and then the second one is even worse right rack it yeah you know and that that would be the right answer but I would say that would be one that most lifters that I know if they're they're going to fail on that one probably more than anything else because in your brain You're already kind of locked in yeah and then part of you is

like you're just being a puss or you know you didn't hit the right groove or whatever it's going to be logically you should just rack it right and then because the outside factors can be impacting that right and then you got to assess like yeah why did why did that feel like [ __ ] like maybe it was a simple que or or technical flaw you did like because if that's the case then Like come back and get it maybe yeah so how did you regulate all this with bodybuilding because now you we talking about

more volume you know so if there's 15 sets for your chest is in a bodybuilding workout in a bodybuilding workout bodybuilding workouts to me are like uh easy yeah but you can you can do 30 sets if you want but is it necessary so that I don't know and I don't even know if I ever figured that out right because now looking back um I wonder Like yeah did you did I have to do that much or push that hard to get those bodybuilding results probably not MH in fact I'll tell you probably for sure

we're trained for those last couple shows uh one I found out like I had sleep apnea like I remember going to the team Universe show and like we were driving down and like looking at my ankles like those I'm swollen man like I should not be swollen right now you know like what's going on but it was because I wasn't sleeping you know um so those all those things playing a part and and then you look in like all the cardio sessions I was doing like I had to get up at 4:00 a.m. to be

at the gym at 5:00 a.m. to do an hour cardio so I had time to shower eat and get ready for my 7 a.m. client and looking back it was like I should you should have just slept like that cardio like sleep would have been way better than doing that cardio session I think now looking back well Now but it's you come from that you you come from that highly disciplined intensed mindset you know which got you what you got powerlifting and all this other kind of stuff where yes there probably a lot of days

you didn't want to train but you still trained it anybody that says differently it's just a liar but with the mindset you have it needs more pulled back than pushed right right So that's that balance that you got to walk kind of walk there to where you're going to overtrain before you're going to if overtraining is what people say it is but yeah overreaching overtraining whatever it's going to be but with the bodybuilding is there's a pump involved where a lot of people will just train until they're have the hardest pump that they have and

if they start to lose that they're done they're done did you kind of go off of That or know this was the work I have to do or I went I went by feel I went by feel and I think I think it's kind of what you said which I never really thought about I don't think I ever thought about it that way but I think I just trained until I felt like man like I can't you know what I mean like if I do another set like my muscles are G to rip um I

think that's I think that's how I trained I didn't have like uh I mean I had the days that I was going to do which body part and I would go in and kind of if I was training with somebody that day we would just kind of like hey what do you want to do for chess I was thinking this I was thinking that okay well let's do this first and then do your second and then we'll add this to right and like just just trained yeah and then when you have somebody that that is

a whole another fact right like if this guy's a maniac and feeling good want to push Then of course I'm going to push and maybe if we're both feeling like [ __ ] we kind of do a easier day but just kind of went by feel and and uh and you know it depends too if you're dieting or if you're in the off season if I was trying to get bigger then it would be more like heavier lower rep not so much work and then when the show would get close you know you're so depleted

you're not strong like I remember like 185 like like I'm I can't even squat this you Know like legs are just going to break so like I don't know at that point if you can't squat 185 like should you be squatting anymore I don't know it's hard hard to judge that stuff so you got to go by the mirror and how you look and uh what that workout did for my look more than anything not so much the weight how did you navigate training through or around injuries just kept figuring out a way to train

like like that doctor thing like Uh you know like I think I could do if I remember right like I could do good mornings or whatever so just did good warnings you know what I mean and like I could do extensions or whatever it was just found things that I could do to get by and a lot of times I found that those however you hurt whatever that wherever that injury came from usually ended up being a good way to rehab it MH right so like I don't know interor pack like Benin probably I don't

know maybe That's not right but that's how I well that's how I always thought about it because if that's how it tore then that's probably the best way to get blood back into it right I mean that's I it's from that and it made sense yeah um some some that's where the gear come in handy right like I could put on a pair of briefs and and maybe deal with that abductor from that compression on my leg you know and and a pack for sure going to wear bench shirt right like that'll My mind protect

it what are some of the things that you see with lifters that may be in your gym now that would I don't want to say mistakes they could do better everything everything I mean coming from where we came from it's a whole different world I mean number one the phone thing is like completely out of hand uh I I I don't know I mean I'm guilty of it too I guess because I'm I'm working and like the whole business is Is on the phone like on my phone with like emails and you all that stuff

um I try my best to just put it away for the hour but from by by myself I kind of have to keep an eye on those things um but like there's some I there's no intensity there's no there's I mean I wish people could see what we did right they don't understand when you mean intensity are you effort effort yeah effort so like and that's another good question what do You mean by effort because I'll see people work out for four hours I mean there's 15 minutes between sets they're on their phone like I

don't know it's that like it's like I don't know it's like how you gonna get anywhere with that but but they do okay like a lot of them do like the squad every day thing and bench every day and deadlift every day and they're decent the numbers aren't horrible but they seem to just Like they're just there they never really go up mhm like I have to see progression even with my clients like I don't care who they are and be 70 years old like in my mind they're paying me that every time we train

you're going to be better whether it's an extra rep or another set we shorten the time between the sets we change the order you know what I mean like we did something that made it harder and you did better yeah well you've done this long enough to be Able to know there's stretches a time where your main lifts no matter what you do they're they're probably not going to go up it's just the reality of when you get to a higher level sure but what can go up are the accessories that you're pushing and a

lot of times even if they go up they may not correspond you know as you're talking about like a push down but you don't know if it's going to correspond and not correspond if you're not doing them at all right you know you Rotate through different things and every now and again I would find something like a close grip incline press on a steep incline always drove my bench always you know so I would find that outside of a meat right and be like oh wait a minute every time I do these when I go

into to do speed work the next time it's it's like a feather yeah I'm not ever doing this again until the meat comes around I don't want to ruin it like so This goes into my gold box and then something else would come in and I think with the lifters that you're speaking about that are three four times a week on the lifts typically they don't have any excess at all you know so they don't I don't know how they can live in that rut when those lifts do stall because it h if they didn't

we would all have been benching 2,000 pounds and squatting just I me took years that exactly I mean the reality is there are Sticking points there are injuries there are outside factors that can influence all these things but in my opinion sounds like where you're coming from the same page other things can get better you know so how do they not stay motivated by doing that stuff right yeah like okay my bench is g to suck but maybe I can build my floor press somehow something but I don't know what it is like I don't

know maybe they're doing it for the wrong reasons now doing it for Social media doing it for other reasons or like I did it because I loved it like I didn't need a meat to do I didn't need a record to break like I just I just love to live and and now I'm at the point where like I have to do stupid stupid stuff to regulate myself so don't do anything too intense you know we were talking before like like won't I won't listen to music I won't have pre-workout I like just give myself

like an hour to lift and yeah but when you when you stay In that state for too long does it drive you nuts I hate it yeah like I want to lift heavy yeah but my body tells me like you know maybe you shouldn't I guess that's what it's saying yeah you know there's there's a pain factor that comes in there and I'm I'm at the point where I just like I mean I've been squatting and deadlifting Bening again and I haven't been able to do that without pain in in like a long time yeah

the way the way that I've navigated that Is I found that if I because I can't use a straight bar to squat you know so it's a safety squat bar spider bar Mars Bar something with a freaking pad on it is I'll use a high box you know and basically I found movements that are almost impossible for me to get hurt on but I can still strain really hard right right and it doesn't matter if the weight's going to be 400 500 800 doesn't I just want that strain right and that's enough and then I

can do that you know Every other week or once a week and then all the rest of the week is to either recover from that or to get ready to be able to do that again and then it gave some significance to all the other crap I have to do during the week which I really don't want to do yeah um you take that away I don't know man I don't know it's hard I don't know because like riding a bike doesn't do [ __ ] for me yeah now when I was training with John

he would have these challenge sets That's the only [ __ ] I liked yeah all the other bodybuilding stuff I didn't like but like let's do you think we can do 50 on the leg press with what we just did for sets of 15 like [ __ ] it I don't know get the ammonia let's find out that right that was fun you know that was a hard it's a different hard that's why I asked earlier it's a different hard that was kind of satisfying but it wasn't the same as draining through right one rra

right so yeah and and you got to think Too like the last three years have just been recovering from surgeries so like you know that that I just can't you know just can't um but I'm I feel like hopefully this keeps going in the right direction that like now I can at least go up to some like heavy triples on the squat no but I a good thing about the surgeries is it gives you something to train for too because you just had the surgery now you want to get back right so that's what I'm

saying like that That's my like motivation right now yeah when that phase is over um I'm with you like just to come in and and do stuff like I don't know so when you went into J jiujitsu your your body's already beat up so trashed so how did that go not good not good I mean I didn't like I didn't get hurt doing it but like my back was so bad like basically I think everything was just like in a constant spasm and all it would take was like a squat and it would just just

lock up you Know um that honestly like how different can we get right like so much different like all that movement that I'm not used to um that was a challenge so I like found excitement and trying to get my body to do that [ __ ] even though were you able to just like side so when you have the ghee on yeah and you have pretty good strength like I can just like kind of grab your sleeves and and you can't really do anything for you know what I mean so like I can get

by You know what I mean and so with that ghee on there's a lot of grips and and like you don't want to extend your arms or give those up or any of your limbs so everything's in here anyway which is where I [ __ ] wanted to be 100% right like it did not want anybody taking my arm away from me so like I was good at that and uh learned how to learned how to move and like the more I moved I did feel like I did start to feel better in certain ways

to get in that movement Because I was stuck in that powerlifting world for so long that like I don't know how you were but like there was no outside activities at all like you want to play kickball no if I tear my hamstring I'm done you know what I mean like so I didn't do anything which was dumb looking back but I don't know though right I mean I couldn't have done what I did Yeah by not not doing that right I had to not do it but because there's always a risk and that's how

I Always kind of saw now some of it was stupid like I don't want to go to the zoo and walk around with my kids because you know I'm not going to be able to recover from my squat which should have been a you know a an indication that you're not in shape like walking 5,000 steps shouldn't [ __ ] up your squat work out um but back then it was it was like a badge of honor like it's like I'm ready man I can't walk across the street I'm ready for This meet right it's

so [ __ ] up but it's kind of what the universal mindset was so true it's like man you look so ready and you look like you're going to die yeah man you know your head looks giant yes face looks exactly and there were people trying to tell us along the way you know you don't need to do this [ __ ] like shut up man it's the strongest I've ever been you're talking about I like what I'm eating I'm doing just fine you know it's all good um but yeah back To the j- Jitsu

like um I I I was I I could train somebody like a Jiu-Jitsu person and I I knew what to do with them training wise with weights to transfer over but like and but like myself like I was having a hard time because like that took so much of a toll on me that like now lifting is like next to nothing I couldn't do both with any kind of intent now which I didn't like I didn't like that no I could see that you know Especially when you're singularly focused yeah so like towards the end

before these couple surgeries I was like I would do I would like um actually the for like a whole year I just did like one private session a week like I didn't do the classes or anything because I was recovering from the Peck and I was like I don't need some 20-year-old white belt like you know trying to bring my arm off so I'm just going to go with the instructor and One once a week and after that session I would go try to uh deadlift or squad or some kind of movement like that and

that that worked but it was like yeah I can only do one hour Jiu-Jitsu a week you know I'm not going to get too much better doing that exactly yeah now going back you started training people online before it really was a thing I think so yeah remember when I started that but how did it come to be um was it clients that you were working With that would just move because it seems to be how a lot did so I would say most of my first clients were ones that have trained in person and

then the the way it's priced out like definitely more affordable to do online so like I would be like you know if somebody didn't have the money or whatever to train in person it's like we can do this online and like I've trained you so like I know you're going to do the right stuff like you know how to do the movements So like even if I take on somebody new now like if they haven't worked with me with the exception of being out of state or something like that but I don't have too many

people like that but um uh I'll make them work with me so I know they know how to do lift like it's too hard to try to type and communicate back and forth and teach somebody how to squat right you know um so I like usually have them do at least a session of each lift with me and then like kind of like I'll Assess like if if this is going to work for you or not mhm cuz like I don't take on that many it's you know not that many people yeah I don't it's

takes a lot of time the way I do it takes too much time uh well that's what I was going to ask about is how are you Bridging the Gap between because it's a completely different experience right because you don't see the nonverbals you don't see the warm-ups you don't see the Reps you Don't see all that um but there's way there there's a [ __ ] ton of people you know that are using using online coaches and a lot of them that have been around for a long time have found ways to kind of

mitigate not all of it but much of it you know so your your way to mitigate it is to try to get them in person just to see like if the if if this is a good fit like um I mean you know this more than anybody like if if you don't trust somebody or right if Somebody doesn't trust me it's not going to work I don't care who who I am whatever right so I got to make sure they Trust trust me um uh most of my online clients are actually my powerlifters because like

to think about like I have a few that I train in person but you know that I have an hour you know what I mean luckily now it's raw so like I can actually get through a legit Workout in an hour with most people um one guy we do like a two-hour session but like and then and then so like all my online stuff is mostly people that do Peete M so I I handled them in the like offseason and then if they get ready for meat I help them peek how do you how do

you differentiate I can't say the word the offseason from yeah preseason or see I we never used these words before was just I don't even know what meat prep was because Everything was kind of meat prep right and I kind of do the same thing now with my clients like um I can get any of them ready and I want to say six weeks right I mean it's just a matter of changing up those last couple weeks to peek out and as long as they've been training I think I can get them ready and probably

beat beat all their numbers that theyve ever done have you seen weak points change throughout the years on somebody just in general like For um trying to think of examples that for a long time you know squatting issues were just falling forward falling forward falling forward MH you know now it's more I guess still falling forward but there a stability it's not setting up right right it seems to so many things yeah I mean there's so many things that can change and like I have people I see every week and and you think by now

they Would know because I've told them every week the same queue or whatever but sometimes it takes I maybe I'm a bad coach sometimes it takes three years and then all of a sudden they're like they do something you've been tell want them to do and they they'll joke with me and be like because you never told me that before like they hear it but sometimes it just for whatever reason doesn't click or they don't make that Association for a long time once they Do then like opens up a whole new door it's like and

they can't argue with me because like yeah I've been telling you that thing and I've told you 10 different ways and I've tried 15 different exercises to get you to feel that or whatever and uh they just don't get it and I try to remember like there's [ __ ] I'm not good at and you could show me how to build this table maybe 100 times and like I don't know maybe I'm not going to be able to build It well there's a difference there because if you're if you really care and you really want

to do it like if you really wanted to learn how to build the table yeah really wanted to right you would you would figure it out yeah you know where if they really really want to and that could fall into some of the things you were saying before with the effort and the intent yeah and so forth is maybe it's just not as deep as what other Right may have and in that awareness thing that you said like some people just don't have it they don't they didn't play sports they don't have uh any kind

of background with [Music] [Music] [Music] hey guys if you like and want to support the podcast remember we have limited edition items these items can range anywhere from t-shirts tank tops Sweatshirts cups you never know what you're going to get check them out at www. elitefts.com body so it takes a lot to figure that out I think as a kid or a teenager you figure it out much faster than somebody in their 40s or 50s like if you haven't done anything and you're 40 and you start powerlifting um some people do good but some people

it takes a little bit of time yeah some of the things that I've seen of of late as far as if I'm going say these are like weak points that I'm seeing across the board but lifters would be their setup you know especially if it's a walk out right the walkouts not good and some of that I guess I can probably blame on Instagram because the lifters don't show their walk out they just show the squat from the time that they squat so you don't see the approach to the bar right you know how they're

setting under the Bar you know or you know the bench as well you're not seeing how they actually l down on the bench how they approach the bench you know all these things are need to be repeated right you know over and over and over and you see that when you're in a gym setting with a group of lifters it's like you realize real quick okay they all do that you would think people would see that a lot of people don't see it yeah I mean there's there's squatting next to somebody that has Absolutely perfect

form and they don't even they don't even know right theirs looks like crash and they can't even tell that it's different which drives me crazy yeah see the thing with that that used to drive me crazy is I would see stuff like that but I knew I was Stronger than the person and it would piss me off like if I'm physically stronger but yet there squatting more than I am right then what are they doing that I'm not doing because this doesn't Add up sure and that's how like yeah competing with Ricky Crane and stuff

you're like how are you doing and you watch his Squad and it's like the same every single time exactly same execution and so like that's where I learned that but when I get a new client like that's the first thing we go over and teach like tell them step by step this is how you're going to set up and this is the cues and this is the bar path and that's what we work on from day one well cues Can be a weird thing too right it be a very weird thing right there's so many

getting thrown out there that have no yeah yeah exactly it's like um and some of them don't even make sense whereas for instance and and multipli gears changed right so you're not going to get more out of gear by sitting back you have to you flare and sit down more because it's coming more through the crotch panel than it is through the back but yet people are telling you know Screaming back and I'm like don't [ __ ] say that because hey they're first off they're probably not hearing you in the first place right and

if they do and they do do it you just screwed their liftt up it doesn't make sense right um whereas they they're individualized I guess is where I'm getting I kind of learned this just by putting content online because I would they would film me kind of coaching somebody and I'm Telling them whatever I have to tell them to get get it right right I never thought on the receiving end somebody May listen to this and think that's [ __ ] up you know it's like arching the bar in a squat would be a good

example of that where and that kind of comes from west side and I had to do a lot of thought into this one right because I've seen people Archer really hard when they Squat and they look like a banana and you know that's [ __ ] up right I mean You're just looking at the spine and how it relates to the the bar it's just not right right and I'm like but you know we always said Arch Arch Arch Arch so then it hit me one day that well our Erectors are like the size of

two liters right we're not arching we're just tightening our back right right right doesn't look how you think yeah so that's where those cues can become a little screwed up because you may tell somebody with their feet look turn your toes out but all You're really concerned about is their foot flat rooted and planted right where I've had some people I've had to tell them on the way you know before you squat lift your heel up right they're not lifting their heel up right but they're they're so pulling their toes up so hard uhuh that

for me to tell them to do that makes the foot flat right so you got to be careful when the [ __ ] goes online because you're just trying to get and I'll tell people now if I'm working with them listen what I'm telling you is specific to you not you not you not you don't do that you know because I'm gonna say whatever it takes to work I say the same thing like hey just so you know like whatever there's other ways to do this or you're going to see variations of this but this

is where you're going to start from you know yeah because we're looking for a clean lift yeah and and that might change over time oh of Course and all that um how about the the heels down thing benching right that's a multi-i bench thing right so everybody was up on their toes and then be heels heals heels but it's like nobody's heels ever went down I never understood it exctly what does that mean like what do you why are you screaming heels when like their foot never goes down like I don't understand I still don't

understand yeah well I think the intent with that was to try to get them to pull Their belly up but wouldn't it make more sense to tell them to lift their and the bell is even a weird one cuz you're not bench into your belly yeah right you're expanding your ribs is what you're doing right right so whatever you need to do to get the rib cage up which maybe your shoulders packed more you know there's a lot of different things but it's it's not that that's the fun part of coaching and training people is

like learning those Cues and figuring out there you might have 10 different things 10 different ways to say it but this person only understands way number one and this person only understands way number two MH it's just like you just got to figure it out now when you're when you're looking at somebody's will go with the squat when you're looking at the squat what are you looking for out so are you watching bar path you watching joint position are you watching obviously We're watching all of it but what what are you looking at the most

so that's usually the lift I start people on in squats I feel like just overall in general gives me a super good idea what what their weaknesses are um and what their strengths are um I normally start Somebody by uh I'll tell I'll tell like if it's a new person I'll say like if they've been squatting or they haven't been well if they've been squatting let's just say I'll have them show me With the bar empty bar let me see what you've been up to and then I kind of assess it from there okay like

whatever maybe their feet are six inches apart and and their ass is touching the floor every rep and the bars like at the top of their top of their traps you know what I mean and their elbows are winged back like this you know what I mean so like and then okay like and now I got to ask myself like what's this person here for are they do they plan on competing Or they just like an average person just wants to build some muscle right cuz then in that case maybe I don't have to get

too crazy at least right away trying to fix all this crap um so I'll just take it from there and let's just say it's a powerlifter um you know I ask them how they feel and they'll usually say well like my knees hurt and usually the side of my back hurts and you know I mean I have tendonitis in this elbow I'm like okay well it's probably because the Way you're holding the bar let me show you how I would set up and I go over the setup and and then I have them just it's

just step by step I have them walk back the bar try again now with just new bar placement you know new hand placement new bar placement and see what changes see what else needs fixed right it's like okay now let's widen your feet out a little bit let's turn your toes out a little bit okay cool so we're doing all that but maybe Their knees are still coming forward it's like like okay now I got to teach this person how to sit back a little bit um so I'll you know I'll try to explain to

them okay now you got to start start the lift with a hinge rather than rather than with your knees because maybe they're starting with their knees first maybe they're starting with both okay let's let's try to hinge into that and um and not not you're not just going to hinge right and do a good morning we're Just going to do a little hinge and then you're G to bend your knees and kind of sit back into it and I want the weight I'll I'll focus on where I want the weight like on your foot all

right so like let's keep it I used to say heels and then you start having the stuff you're talking about the toes coming up so now I just say like middle of your foot like let's just keep it centered over the middle of your foot and like I'll even position them like lean Forward a little bit when you're standing you feel that go to your toes yeah okay lean back to feel heels cool now let's keep it in the middle as you're going to sit back into this and then like you'll see them like stand

up and be like what like dude like that feels great you know and then we just start building from there okay let's add a little bit of weight can you do it and like sometimes they'll mess something up or they'll you know And I also focus a lot on their their um Ecentric Bas coming down um everybody just wants to drop when they're first learning I just like tell them like just pretend like you're a spring and somebody's going to push you down you're kind of resisting me you know what I mean and you're building

up that tension like that tension is your friend don't get freaked out by that tension like you want to sit back and you want to stretch your hamstrings you want to stretch your Glutes and you want that that spring to be loaded so you can power out of the bottom so then I start to get into that a little more okay now you got the technique going now let's keep that control coming down nice and slow and controlled and then when you go to change directions you know game over it's it's go up with some

intent and put some power behind and then it makes it fun and they start to like feel better and and find that that explosive power That they have and I think that's what's fun no it's the other cool thing about that once they lock it in you may have just added 50 pounds on their squat easily I mean uh I have countless examples where like they'll come in like best bench is this and like I mean right away we had to wait the first session they're just and they feel better yeah and things aren't hurting

and and uh so those are the best clients when I can I wish I would film more of them because It's like so cool to see like when somebody comes in and how they feel and what they feel like and and all that and they kind of stop squatting because it just doesn't feel right so then that's why they find me and then like I can can fix them in in an hour man and it's it's awesome no it's good so with the bench how do you walk them through that same way you did with

s same thing um um uh so I have like a dow Rod or or just a one inch PVC pipe and a lot of times I Just start with that so like I can like talk to them and correct them without them trying to even hold anything and uh and I say let's see where what you're doing here and I see where touching I'm a big believer in trying to keep that wrist over your elbow when you're as you're coming down so we'll see if they're like tucking their elbows too much or flaring their elbows

too much and um usually starts like the squat right Like with your feet but on the bench it's going to be with your hands let's get the hands situated let's find the proper rough placement we we'll we'll dial it in as we go but let's go with this grip um usually make them take a full grip on the bar most of the time instead of like suicide grip M till I till I get to know them so they're not chopping something on their face for session but um I try to teach them how to use

their lats and how to pull the Weight down and I try to like explain to them like that that wrist has to be above your elbow at that bottom position like that's where your power is going to come from your lat your tricep right your PEX to but like that negative is as you load in your lats in your back right and stretching that and same thing like when they come down with the bar I I say like find that tension right so like just like we learned in a shirt You're not going to come

down on a shirt and like get away from the tension put on your belly or bring it to your neck you want to find that extreme tension so that you have that rebound out of so I teach it just like that and uh because some people get afraid you don't realize it I try not to say afraid when I'm training them but they like tend to get scared of that feeling of like that pressure so they go away from it no go go in that and then when they start Doing it they can feel the

difference and they're like oh [ __ ] like I've been staying away from that the whole time um I try to teach them to push through their Palm you know so you don't want the you don't want the bar back on your on your knuckles with nothing supporting you there that that weight has to be across your palm where you have all your forearms and everything underneath you to push from um some of the cues we know get Mixed up from the multiply into the raw like you said about sitting back um benching right and

a shirt maybe we're going to push back a little bit into the rack but on on on the raw stuff I try to teach in a straight line now in reality if you look it's going back I saying yeah but it's still I still teach like okay when we take This Out imagine where that bars at and then that's that's the target for when you're done you're going to touch your chest you're going to Return right back to where it started from um you know the whole bend the bar thing it's a pretty good cue

for the most part um I'll just have them grab the bar and like just show them that little bit of little bit of internal rotation from that elbow and that's it if we overdo it so when I have this broom stick or whatever I can show them like I I'll have them like hey Touch This Bar on on your belly like on your belly button it's time and they'll They'll go like that like okay well now you're not stacked like we just talked about right so to touch your belly button your elbows got to be

in here now so that stays stacked so no matter where we touch that's gonna stay stacked and so that's kind of just how I teach it and then and then we go into like I can get in once that's done then I'll go into the setup and like how to get some kind of arch how to get some kind of leg Drive which I think is way over Overthought about or talked about like that leg drive to me is um it's not that much like right it's just kind of there because of how we set

up and that tension yeah it's not like really like you're at least me I don't know I never really like was a big Pusher like push from my feet number one your butt's going to come off yeah the tension just for the stability yeah so a lot of times I'll like I'll set them up like out of position forward On the bench so instead of your eyes being underneath the bar or Way Forward like lift their butt off the bench and then like drive back to that spot we want to be in and that that

activation of your legs to push you back if you just keep that and I'll set your ass down and you're good like that's your leg dve you know and of course like on a grinder rep or some extra rep you didn't plan on doing maybe they find that I'm like what the [ __ ] what was that like That that's the leg drive like that's all it is like yeah that's all it is yeah so it's a tightness right yeah I I think that it's been made into this mystery this mystery type thing like if

you nail it right you're going to bench 100 pounds more and that's just not true no that's not true and some people I've found like when they try to Arch so much it actually screws up everything it's like overly done you know it just doesn't it's too Much it doesn't work right same with like being too aggressive like just setting up too aggressively for like 95 pounds MH like you've seen those guys you know what I mean like crazy high intensity for like a 135 bench when they bench 400 or what yeah you got to

like increase that intensity as the weight climbs up at least I think yes yes right yeah I mean the form and the technique should be bright it's the same but but how how tight you're going to get should Escalate as the weight goes otherwise you're gonna be so fatigued you're you're not going to be able to do the top any so I just think of like a volume dial and it's like we're just gonna slowly turn up that intensity as we go were there any topics that you wanted to discuss I didn't bring up um

I don't we covered a lot of stuff man I I can talk I can talk all day about this stuff yeah um no we covered the crazy story about opening up the gym and Some of the some of the better meets I had uh train and run injuries and um no I'm just yeah what's the what's the best way people can reach you um just through email usually just SES fitness center gmail.com so your website yeah my website phone call um that's all I'm on Instagram more than I don't really go on Facebook too much

so mostly Instagram okay so we have a page on there and I have a personal page on there do you have any final thoughts um not really Super cool to to be here to talk to you like growing up like yeah it's all a big deal give me allem motion but yeah like always always followed and looked up to and learned a lot well thank you I I appreciate you coming out one things I one of the things I love about doing this podcast is I can take people that really know their [ __ ]

but they don't have a million followers Yeah I don't right and then get their voice and their information and their content out because when you're in the trenches actually doing it you know you can provide the information that the others can't not saying that all the people with a million followers suck but you know there's there is a disportionate relationship with those that do right where you know just the nature of the way the internet and algorithms and all that kind of work It's it's hard to get the good voices in front of people who

can really help make the biggest difference and know what they're doing and so that's why I wanted to have you out and that's why I have a lot of the people that are out on the podcast is for that reason because it's people are I don't want to say they're they're looking up to the wrong Heroes cuz that's probably a bad word you know they're looking kind of in the wrong places for the information where you Know when we coming up we're looking everywhere yeah right and now there's a lot of singular Focus like I'm

only going to listen to this Camp right and it's like man you need to listen to every Camp you need to listen to the people that came before you you need to listen to the even the upcomer now that are just hitting things crazy you need to listen to them you got to listen to it all because eventually you need to figure it out for yourself so yeah like I can finish on that note like you know how you look back and you think how did you learn what you learned right like there was no

internet you had some books and you had some magazines and articles um but you literally had to show up at the gym and like find the strongest dude there and be like what the how are you doing this right and like talk to people in person and and listen right and listen and and take that information and and build on that where now it's it's Not there there's too much access to too manyy different things and nobody like I said nobody knows where to look and they're looking the wrong places but this all goes back

to the basics I don't care what anybody says right it's the basics um uh there's not much to overthink it's not that complex yeah right it's it's pretty simple you just have to keep it simple and there's no magic there's no magic workout I like I Said I trained for every meat differently and they all worked for the most part you know couple shitty once here and there but for the most part they all work so yeah you got to go back to the to the roots and the old school people that that figured all

this stuff out right yeah not too much new stuff being figured out no it's just being and it's always been that way it's just being re rmed redefined but the basics are the basics right and they're boring You know which I get that you know but that's how you succeed yeah right so I want to thank you for coming out thank you for having on my pleasure and we're done right all right guys thanks for watching the video to the end make sure to like And subscribe to the channel and click here here here or

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