Doctrine and Covenants 20-22 | Scott Woodward & Casey Griffiths | Come Follow Me LDS | Mar 10-16

Welcome to church history matters today I have some good news and some sad news sad news is Casey Griffith is not with us today he is over on Hank and John's podcast called follow him so if you're wanting to fill your Casey calories this week you want to go get some Casey go over to follow him and instead of Casey now I'm transitioning to the good news here I have with me today my good friend Anthony sweat Anthony welcome to the Show man I'm so excited to be with you Scott and some of your listeners

just went that was bad news and worse news uh not not not bad news and good news but I I don't I cannot replace the great Casey Griffith Casey is irreplaceable is but I got better jokes though I got better jokes you do and I hope I hope that comes out today uh and feel free just to let Let it Fly uh here on church history matters I'll try to do my best I don't think our listeners will be disappointed By the end of this you'll understand why I invited Anthony onto the show today he

is an expert in the doctrine of covenants uh all things church history uh he is a professor of uh religion at BYU Provo in the church history and Doctrine department and I'm not going to give a big old long bio Tony but let's just get in it let's have fun but uh I love the doctrine Covenant I love to teach it I love The Marvelous Revelations we're not holding back this Is going to be awesome awesome so today is Dr covenants 20 through 22 that's what we're studying this week for come follow me and man

is there a lot of material to cover today Tony yeah big sections big major sections particularly section 20 as we'll talk about this founding constitutional section and 21 and even 22 even though it's just a short little guy it's not one wit behind and its potency so I'm excited to dive into these shorty but goody yeah [Music] all right so let's drop into our first C for Section 20 the context and Anthony you want to take it away sure love to okay the context of section 20 has a fun story behind it because it's it's

one of those unique Revelations where you're not getting the first person voice of the Lord uh you're getting the almost a third person approach where we're talking like we as a people we as a church this is what we and it's a Document that has a history behind it that's evident and also there's parts of it where we don't know how it's being put together the context behind this is when they finish translating The Book of Mormon and back in section 18 of the doctrine covenants that you guys have already studied the Lord gives a

revelation uh to David Whitmer and Oliver cryy and in one of the verses this is section 18:3 and 4 the Lord says I give unto you a Commandment that you Rely upon on the things which are written now in context that's the Book of Mormon for in them in the pages of the Book of Mormon are all things written concerning the foundation of my church my gospel and my rock and so Oliver cryy is going to take the manuscript um of the Book of Mormon and over the next number of months he is going to

pull together from The Book of Mormon what he sees as foundational practices and ordinances and offices and Put it together into a document that is known as the articles of the Church of Christ and over half of Doctrine covenants 20 is it seems or is reported to be a quotation of Oliver cow's original articles and in fact when they're organizing the church on April 6th 1830 what they're going to use to file with the state of New York is Oliver's articles because that's what's been being used as kind of like their their founding um document

their Founding beliefs now Joseph by prophetic Authority and Revelation he is going to then start to expand on Oliver's articles and in Joseph's own history he says in this manner did the Lord continue to give us instructions from time to time concerning the duties which now devolved upon us and among many other things of the kind we obtained of him the following that is the articles in covenants or the Constitution section 20 by the spirit of Prophecy and Revelation which not only gave us much information but also pointed out to us the precise day upon

which according to his will and commandment we should proceed to organize his church once again here upon the earth now Joseph's writing that later in 1838-39 for his history so Joseph is going to then by the spirit of Prophecy and Revelation his own words expand upon Oliver's original articles and the result will be section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants And so does he does Joseph con consider this document finished done definitive or is this more of an open document to be added upon well like most of his Revelations I'm not sure if Joseph ever

sees uh any of them as finished and done and definitive language is to interpretive like for example in section 20 of the doctrine of covenants it originally said that priesthood holders are to quote administer the flesh and blood of Christ end of quote now Obviously we hear that as Sacrament but in a later edition of the doctrine covenants Joseph will amend it to say that Elders are to quote administer Bread and Wine the emblems of the flesh and blood of Christ he's clarifying there what he means by that I don't know his motive behind making

that clarification but clearly like other documents if Joseph feels a need to clarify or add to he does that even with Section 20 this constitutional document Yeah in fact uh in an early edition of this document it has written on it it says thus far the church articles and Covenant uh suggesting this ongoing nature of the church's development like you're saying uh Joseph will add as additional Revelation comes he's going to continue to add to this document which is yeah now and he doesn't add this in but even in section 33 of the doctrine of

covenants the Lord gives a revelatory clarification about Confirmation section 20 brushes on you know here here you baptizing here are some things with confirmation section 33 adds a little bit more so and clearly as priesthood offices and other things come and develop so for example another obvious addition that will come later is in verse 66 to 67 he says but the presiding Elders traveling Bishops High counselors High priests and Elders have the privilege of ordaining now when the Church is organized in April 6th of 1830 the only priesthood office is are Elder priest teacher Deacon

and so high priest Bishop High counsel that doesn't come until the years following between 1830 and 1835 so it's obvious that by the time the 1835 Doctrine Covenant comes verses like that are later amendments by Joseph yeah he's going back as additional Revelations been received to kind of update that in terms of this operating document for the church good What else do we need to know about the context here anything else I think uh context just understand upfront how important this document was it's it will be the first revelation to be print printed in the

church's official newspaper called the evening and Morning Star back then particularly because uh we won't get an A real Edition printed of Joseph's Revelations until 1835 Doctrine covenants a lot of people the way they got the revelations were Through the newspaper that's how most people got their first exposure and had a printed copy and so the fact that this is the first one printed shows like hey section 20 is primo important and then another maybe contextual thing to show its importance is in the 1835 edition of the doctrine and Covenant it is the first section

to come only after the preface so it's like preface section 20 um boom yeah and it's almost like this section should be given Preeminence among the saints for us to know and to study I've said to my students before section 20 to you and I is like the Constitution is to somebody who studies American government we should know section 20 really well it was it was the original Handbook of instructions so to speak it's the original guiding document for the church yeah in fact uh only two months after the church was organized on the 9th

of June 1830 Joseph will present section 20 At that conference for like church sustaining approval yep and this is the only section of the Doctrine and Covenants to be sustained like that in Joseph's Day yeah and so again that just underscores what you're saying about like this was meant to be binding guiding like the document that uh the church would run off of any one of the Latter-Day Saints to sustain it as such even today in the church you know maybe I won't jump ahead on your four C's but In consequences uh even today if

somebody finds that they don't have uh you know their phone with them or they and somehow they need to say the sacrament or there's not a little card printed and laminated you open up to section 20 and there's our there's our Sacrament prayers you open up the section 20 and there's our baptismal prayer so it it is this founding document that even for us today it's funny to mention that cuz I've recently been called into a bishop brick and uh our Bishop was gone I'm his first counselor uh last week and the priest knelt down

and started saying the prayer and I realized I'm the guy I'm supposed to be like checking and making sure he's saying the prayer right and so I I hastily I was like ah boom my mind went turn to section 20 76 like check it up yeah so in in 5 seconds I was like Bo boom and I was following along and and he nailed it except on the water he said Or on the wine he said water he said water so did you call him out you tell him to stop so it's it's wine it

says it right here it says no I did not no um but uh but you're right I mean my instinct was not to look for a card where's the card that has the prayers it was like go to section 20 right there y yeah and and we should mention that section 20 is drawing heavily from The Book of Mormon cuz actually that's where for the prayer originally is right in in Moroni if anybody's ever like why is it in both getting back to the context that's evidence of Oliver going into the Book of Mormon pulling

it into the Articles which becomes into the section 20 of the Constitution yeah Casey and I when we were covering section 18 uh we talked about how Book of Mormon based our church is it's really especially in these founding years like it the doctrine the structure the Liturgy of the sacrament baptism we are pulling it Directly from the book of Mormon Y and uh I don't know if we emphasize that or not I mean this is a book of Mormon based church and section 18 and now section 20 is the the best evidence for that

amen like they say in section 22 the whole thing amen totally all right so there's the [Music] context all right so content of section 20 what do we need to know about this section what's so important let's dive In okay Preamble with foundational events like what what led up to this church then second part foundational doctrines or teachings like what really is our most foundational doctrine that we teach and then last part then what's our practices what are we going to do that's growing out of this foundational events and doctrines perfect so the three-part division

of section 20 uh let's get into that first part then the Preamble uh I think that would be what Verses 1 through 4 is kind of the announcement of the church's legitimacy right this states that the Church of Christ was legally organized and established because of the will and Commandments of God I'm quoting uh right here on April 6 1830 this church exists because God gave Commandments concerning its establishment to Joseph Smith Jr who was called of God and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ to be the first Elder of this church and Oliver cry

who Was also called of God an apostle of Jesus Christ the second Elder of the church and this according to the grace of our Lord and savior so in other words this church exists because God commanded to authorize the apostles to establish it like that's pretty solid beginning that's a great beginning that's I I give it at the end of verse four where it gives our first amen I I give an amen to that amen so that's the authority of the church that's the legitimacy of the Church yep perfect so then verses 5-10 kind of

give like like you're were saying a brief overview of some of the foundational historical Narrative of the church right it begins at the moment when this first Elder Joseph Smith Joseph had it truly manifested unto him that he had received a remission of his sins yeah uh this seems to be an oblique little reference to First Vision yeah sometimes you'll hear people say you know Joseph has four accounts of the First Vision 1832 35 38 and 42 totally and sometimes people will say well he didn't record the first Vision until 1832 now that's true he

didn't record the details but yeah if you know the 1832 account in particular where it centers in on Joseph receiving a remission of his sins yes he even says the first thing that the Lord said to him was Joseph my son thy sins are forgiven thee if you know that then when you read verse 5 you go after it was Manifest unto Joseph Smith that he had received remission of his sins he was entangled again in the vanities of the world and you like oh that that actually the first reference to the first vision is

in uh April of 1830 in section 20 of the doctrine of covenants that's our first public reference that I know of it's oblique you've got to know the 1832 account to be able to catch it but it's there Y and I know you know Casey and I have talked And other Scholars have talked about how it seems like Joseph early on did not see the institutional relevance of his own personal First Vision but it's only over time that it that seems to Dawn on him as especially as others give him feedback like that's significant Joseph

like we should talk more about that that he he really starts to make it more public and so for him this is a very personal experience where he sought God and sought forgiveness of sins and it Came and that's that's deeply personal I'm just going to brush over it here in verse 5 and I'm just going to keep going with the story and it's just so indicative of Joseph's uh typical downplaying of the first Vision in those first years yeah but I wouldn't I wouldn't give the the critic the Credence that Joseph doesn't see its

significance because even when he starts his 1832 Journal history he even says I'm going to write down all the Marvelous things that have happened to me and the first thing he writes down is the first Vision um In 1832 I just don't know like you're saying I don't know if he sees that it as the impetus for the restoration it's not until later as you're saying that it will be like no this really does provide the foundational narrative for the restored Church uh Orson Pratt will be one of those who really starts to see and

use it and it it's become so foundational For us today exactly yeah so personally significant no question institutionally significant that seems to grow in time over that first decade and it was it was Orson Pratt wasn't it who first had Joseph tell him a story and then Orson wrote it in a pamplet that he used as a missionary in 1842 so uh super cool that's verse five so we got First Vision oh and then he's entangled again in the vanities of the world it says so that's in between first vision and second Vision with Moroni

yep um where his history talks about falling into many foolish errors the foibles of human nature the weakness of Youth that's that's what you wrote in your Journal right as a teenager my foibles of Youth my foibles um I have many foibles of the youth that I did not write down in my journal but we know the story um he goes on on after repenting and humbling himself sincerely through faith God ministered unto him by a Holy Angel Reference to Angel moroni's visits who gave Joseph Commandments which inspired him and power from on high through

the means which were before prepared a reference to the AMA to translate The Book of Mormon which contains the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ beautiful so now we got Moroni we've got the coming forth of Book of Mormon now the next verse goes right into the three Witnesses this inspired book The Book of Mormon was confirmed to others by the Ministering of angels right there's the reference to David Martin Oliver and is declared unto the World by them by these three by their United statement that's appended to every copy of the Book of

Mormon those are the foundational historical moments as Joseph sees it here in this in this section right so we got First Vision appearances of Moroni the miraculous translation The Book of Mormon and the three Witnesses themselves and these he says have this Collective effect I think it's really important to connect this history to the the point he's making here say these have the the collective effect of quote proving to the world that the holy scriptures are true meaning the Holy Bible and that God does inspire men and call them to his holy work as he's

always done thereby showing that he God is the same God yesterday today and forever so in other words if if these Four historical events are true then it follows that the Bible is true and that God still inspires and calls people to his work that's a I sometimes have students when I say to them okay list the first few events of the restoration off the top of your head what are the and they say First Vision Moroni and the translation of the Book of Mormon and Peter James and John or John the Baptist because they

want to get Authority in there now we've already brushed on Authority at the beginning but Joseph isn't laying out a case for necessarily baptism or priesthood Authority here he's laying out a case that we do every day with our missionaries or with anybody else when we say hey if you want to know if Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and we hand them the Book of Mormon and we say read this text study this text let God manifest to you that this text is true and if you do with you know sincere Faith um

you'll you'll get the truth of it thereby you will know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God he seems to be following that logic from the very beginning there that that's why he says First Vision Moroni Book of Mormon and the three Witnesses that's how you know he's called us to do this work I think that's a pretty tight logical case like if Joseph was really called by God and the really was an angel who led him to a book that was translated by the gift and Power of God and angels minister to three

men to Bear witness of that fact yep then we know yeah uh that the Bible's true and that God still inspires and calls people to this work like I love when another Ballard calls the Book of Mormon tangible evidence of Joseph Smith's prophetic Ministry anybody can claim that they've seen God anybody can claim that God's talked to him but not anybody can say and here is a book or a record or evidence of witness to to Prove it and that's what the lord gave Joseph what a what a marvelous tool and in verses 13 through6

say like the stakes are pretty high for Earth for the for the inhabitants of Earth you will be judged these verses Say by how you respond to these great Witnesses of this work of God in our day if you receive them in faith and you work righteousness you will receive a crown of eternal life but if you harden your hearts and unbelief and reject these things it will Turn to your own condemnation he says like so this isn't just interesting historical tidbits this is the Earth is going to be held accountable for the witnesses of

these men and what are you going to do about it so that's a strong beginning that's a strong beginning for verse 16 for the Lord God ha spoken it yep okay so now we're switching to uh kind of this second segment of section 20 which is uh you called it laying out The the doctrine or the theology uh do you want to walk us through this Tony I know I've heard you in the past and I think this will be good for our listeners to hear uh you've talked about the Inseparable nature and the relationship

between our founding history and our founding theology like you can't really fully pull apart art our theology from our history yeah I think that's the case that's being made here in this section do you want do you Want to talk about that and walk through these verses you know he says if these events are true the next line in 17 is by these things we know that now these things are these historical events if these historical events really happened then we do know that and he starts to list it and so that's the connection we

we can't separate our history from our Doctrine our doctrine of apost Y and restoration apostasy is a historical event restoration is a historical event Apostasy of loss of priesthood a restoration of priesthood that's kind of the logic of the shift here if you really know that these things really did happen then you will know this this Doctrine is true sometimes I say okay what would you lay down as our founding doctrines then what is it and have them list them off the top of their head and it's really interesting to compare even right now as

people are listening as they're driving or working out or what Else whatever they're doing in your own mind list if you're like if I had to list a half a dozen you know 5 to 10 founding doctrines foundational what would they be and and then to compare it to this list that you're about to give it's a fun exercise that is a fun exercise and and try to connect it to those founding events if we know for sure the first Vision translation Book of Mormon three Witnesses Angel Moroni if if that's true Then what doctrines

do we know listeners if you want to pause and make your list go for it uh cuz we're about to go through what section 20 says and you can make that comparison that's a fun exercise Anthony I like that first he says you know that there is a God in heaven that's a great spot to start foundational doct number one there's a God there's a God who rules and Reigns yeah who is unchangeable framer of Heaven and Earth number two he created Man male and female after his own image and he gave them Comm Commandments

that they should love and serve him and worship him and him only third by the transgression of these holy laws Man became sensual and devilish and became Fallen man I think this is interesting that he's not just saying that if there was an angel that appeared to Joseph Smith then the fall is true he's saying if the Book of Mormon is legit then let's dig into the Book of Mormon right Because the Book of Mormon proclaims very clearly the reality of the Fallen condition of mankind yes and so if the Book of Mormon is true

then what do we know and you'll know the next Doctrine as well because this really is as Bruce armaki called them those three pillars of Eternity if there's a God and he created us and gave us Commandments to follow him and we have fallen short of that creation fall every listener knows what comes next the great third pillars Atonement this is fundamental back to your comment of how the we are a church dering out of the Book of Mormon this is Oliver or Joseph or the Lord by Revelation reiterating that Foundation ation creation fall atonement

Doctrine in the next ones you're going to get ready to read yes that Jesus suffered Temptations but gave no heed to them but was crucified died rose again the third day and ascended into heaven to reign with Almighty power according to the will of the father and he did this so that the next verses say fifth as many as would believe and be baptized in His holy name and endure in faith to the end should be saved this includes both those from the beginning who Liv before he came and those believed in the words of

the Holy prophets then as well as those who came after he came to the Earth and who would believe by the Holy Ghost which Bears record of the father and the son so Christ is the savior of those who came before him and after him because of our fallen condition we needed a savior and he delivered on them sixth the father Son and Holy Ghost are one God infinite and eternal and boy that's proclaimed throughout the Book of Mormon multiple times multiple places especially when Jesus comes down and visits he says me and the father

and the Holy Ghost are one God seventh we also know from these things that all men must repent and Believe on the name of Jesus Christ and worship the father in his name and endure in faith on his name to the end otherwise you cannot be saved in the kingdom of God that's the requirements that's the gospel we need to subscribe to you see the logic here of God creation fall atonement Redemption of mankind but how do you access that Redemption you must live the gospel you must repent and be baptized and receive the Holy

Ghost like there's this just Logic from the verses you've read here which if you repent and and are baptized and we receive the Gospel then it's going to lead to these Doctrine yes and receiving the Holy Ghost then leads to the eighth point he says here eth we know that justification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and true meaning that through the goodness of Jesus Christ we can be absolved of our indebtedness to the justice of broken law something like That we can be declared innocent again thanks to the

grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ yeah that we we don't use that word justification a lot in the modern church but it's a really important scriptural word and it's an important word in Christianity and I think it would be important for our members to know that word and as as you just said it's like maybe typing on your computer on a Word document you can highlight the text and then you can left Or Center or right justify it it means you can move it and so if you and I have gotten out of

the way and we're Fallen which we all are through receiving the gospel we can be made right or moved back into alignment with God so that we're in harmony we're in good standing with him we're in good Grace with him and we can live in a state of being justified in a in Harmony in alignment with god wow I love the word processor analogy there man that actually worked For my brain that was perfect left Justified right Justified Center Justified or uh for us it's about being God Justified reconcile God Justified but it's a fun

thought to think of Jesus grabbing us out of alignment and putting us in alignment with God through his gospel brought into alignment love that and then he introduces another word uh the ninth Point here we know also that sanctification through the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is just and True now sanctification is a little different than being brought into alignment sanctification I think I would add is to be purified from the effects of sin meaning you're not just brought into alignment but you're also being purified in your intentions your motivations uh and

the effects the pull the grab of sin on us is becoming uh disconnected it's we're becoming more like God justification is being made good with God sanctification is being Made more like God so perfect brought into alignment maybe left to right and sanctification brought up to be more like yes because we all know like the beautiful hymn that's now back in our hym book Come Thou found that line that says prone to wander Lord I feel it like we all feel our tendency to wander away from being justified and then we wander again and go

do stupid stuff because of our carnal sensual devilish Natures Whereas sanctification is going to help us to not even desire to sin right it's going to help us slowly I mean this is not something that happens overnight but helps us to have no more dis position to do evil to use a scriptural phrase or to shake at the appearance of sin to use a Nephi phrase or perfect to use a president Elson phrase to be a sin resistant generation you know or soul and how do you develop that the this verse continues on it says

this is for Those who love and serve God with all their mights minds and strength so there's something in the that muscle group of loving God and serving him with all your might mind and strength that helps you become Sanctified that helps you develop Godlike reflexes and tendencies and uh outlooks on life and the ways you want to treat people and the things you want to do with your time as you as you dedicate yourself to serving God your nature starts to shift And change to become more Godlike so that's awesome that's a good summary

okay then 10th we're just cruising here verse 32 it warns that there is a possibility that man may fall from grace and depart from the Living God now this seems to be a comment that's responding in part to a Christian theological debate That Was Then current in the 1800s about whether or not you know once people receive Christ and were Justified and Sanctified by him like could they Ever Fall Again from his favor and verse 32 says yes yes it is that is possible it's a continued debate obviously in Christianity as well I I once

just a little quick story I did a research study where I partnered up with uh some Evangelical an Evangel vcal scholar up in Canada and we did a study where we were comparing spiritual experiences between Latter-Day Saints and evangelicals oh cool and when we published this study he and I I'll never Forget it we were working over zoom and talking with each other and we were talking about Grace he was like I think we need to contextualize how both of our faiths view Grace so we started talking back and forth um because by the way

I wouldn't Overlook that again just like the Book of Mormon foundational doctrin over here is Grace We Know by the grace yes we are Justified We Know by Grace we are Sanctified and I showed him those verses and I said then I showed him Verse 32 and said but we do think you can fall from grace and he he couldn't I still remember he jumped back in his chair and he was like really he's like you really believe you can fall from grace once you've accepted the grace of Christ and I remember I said to

him I can leave Christ and fall out of love with him in the same way I can leave my wife and fall out of love with her if I don't be loyal and faithful and true and we had the most fascinating discussion Back and forth about our views of falling from Grace it was so significant by the way that we added it to our paper and we I I quoted section 20 of the doctrine of covenants in that academic paper of our foundational view that you can depart from the grace of Christ if we don't

remain loyal and true and faithful and and dedicated wow I love that is is this a paper that is accessible if people want to go check out it is uh it's called I think it's Called pedagogy of the spirit comparing latterday Saint and Evangelical views of the Holy Ghost or something that title alone if you read it if you have insomnia it'll P you right to bed yeah but it was fascinating got to be in just the right mood if you want to read this paper but don't read that at 10:30 at night you won't

make it past the first paragraph yeah yeah no that's that's so cool to that point of like staying in love with your with your Spouse right that we all know those of us who are married you got to nurture it you got to do the things that got you in love in the first place and continue to do those things and and that's where verse 33 goes uh he says therefore right because you can fall from grace therefore let the church take heed and pray always continue to nurture that relationship with God the Reliance on

God the the thing that probably got you convicted in the first place right that As you prayed to know if these things were true if you prayed to know if God was even there for you if you prayed to have answers to your own personal needs like that's how you began that relationship with God this is how it continues pray always he says lest you fall into temptation and then he says yay and even let those who are Sanctified take heed also yeah even if you're good even if you're a real Holy Soul you still

got to watch and be ready And take heed so that you're not deceived because the very elect can be deceived yeah 100% um you know sometimes you know if you say to someone who's starting to maybe have doubts or maybe they're quite ways down the road of doubt and you said to them like are you praying that comes across really Hollow sounding and really superficial it's like don't talk to me about prayer like I'm going through some serious struggles right now you know you could talk to a Married couple who is maybe struggling and you

can say are you still doing date nights are you doing the small things that nurtured your relationship in the first place it's actually a valid question uh though it might sound hollow in the moment for someone who's in the throws of a difficulty I just love that in the midst of all this verse 33 is saying keep praying yeah this is how you maintain that that connection that relationship yep keep that relationship Nurturing and growing and close through some of these basic practices we know all of these things are true verse 35 concludes and as

John says at the end of the Bible I like that Joseph put this in here none of these 10 truths that we just outlined adds to nor diminishes from the prophecy of John the Revelator book or the Holy Bible or any of the revelations of God people are always accusing uh this additional scripture and additional prophets and witnesses as If it somehow is contradicting The Book of Revelation and Joseph wants to nip that right here verse 35 this is not contradicting it's not adding to or taking away it's only reinforcing it's reinforcing these truths right

that are solidly biblical just note how these foundational theological truths are growing directly out of the foundational historical events I just think that's a really strong point it's being made here and it's so powerful Then as you notice as you see the shift again too the end in verse 36 you get that other amen I just like these amens in section 20 it's a great way to kind of see the breaks in what we're talking about here so that's the theology there's the Orthodoxy now let's get to the orthopraxy the the right belief and the

right practice so now we're going to get some right practice or orthopraxy here orthopraxy is going to grow directly out of the Orthodoxy isn't it That's right so if there is such a thing as baptism right if if there is a need for baptism if there is a need for you to come to Jesus in that way then what's the correct practice for baptism for instance right so here we how do you baptize and if you if you do need Authority who gets it and how do we confer it to know it do you want

to walk us through the orthopraxy uh real quick yeah Anthony and what are what are kind of the key practices that are outlined In the remaining versus verses 37 to 84 first one is by way of commandment to the church concerning the manner of baptism so who are we going to baptize and what are the qualifications for baptism and it says all those who humble themselves before God and desire to be baptized and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins and

are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ having a a determination to to serve him to the end and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins shall be received by baptism into his church verse 37 by the way is still quoted in preach my gospel back to how foundational this text is this section preach my gospel quote section 20:37 as and it lists bullet point those same things that were just listed there for The missionaries of this is who you

how you know who you can baptize the first presidency in the quum of the 12 add some other by Revelation modern day they've added some other requirements on there like uh living principles of moral worthiness and that they're willing to live the word of wisdom Etc but they're still using that verse as the basis now by the way notice how there is nothing about confirmation and conferral of the Holy Ghost because 38 is going to move To the duty of the elders and the priests and the teachers and the deacons why is that do you

think I don't know I don't know if it's just a slight oversight if you go to verse 68 I'm going a little out of order though it says the duty of the members after they are received by baptism so there's almost a jump here almost like baptism and let's talk about who has Authority then they come back to this the elders or priests are to have Sufficient time to expound all things concerning the Church of Christ to their understanding there that pronoun is those those that have been baptized previous to their partaking of the sacrament

and being confirmed by by the laying on of hands of the elders so that all things may be done in order there was a practice in the early church that they did not confirm people and confer the Holy Ghost right after their baptism they waited sometimes up months you'll Even see this in upcoming sections with Emma Smith Emma Smith will be baptized in section 25 and then when you come to section 27 um a month or so later they're doing what is known as a confirmation meeting so in the early church there was a practice

of baptize them but don't confirm them members yet until they show this Godly walk and conversation and and that they understand their duties then you can confirm them so that might be Why it doesn't list her right away that's a good thought jumping back to verse 38 the duty of the elders priests teachers deacons and members of the Church of Christ you can see by the way in 38 those were the original four offices and the church was organized of April in April of 1830 and it's going to start to lay these out an apostle

is an elder and it's his calling to baptize so it lists out and just remember they did not have the Quorum of the 12 apostles At this time they called Joseph and Oliver and eventually they also called David Whitmer as Apostles meaning they are leaders of the church they are authorized they are the heads but the Quorum the Quorum hasn't been organized yet to ad Minister The Bread and Wine the emblems of the flesh and blood of Christ that's we already talked about that verse a little bit to confirm those who are baptized into the

church to teach expound exhort verse 42 verse 43 To confirm the church by the laying on of hands and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost you see it mentioned there to take the lead of all meetings they're to conduct the meetings as they're led by the Holy Ghost so that's the elders Duty now originally when the church was small you could have Joseph and Oliver and David Whitmer and other leading elders to do that it will not take long before that model is not functioning very well and there are additional priesthood Offices of high

priest and the high priesthood in a first presidency uh that gets organized yeah so clearly we can see the need for Section 20 to be adapted as the needs of the church uh change and grow this is laying down foundational principles but it's not closed and locked in yeah I don't think Joseph liked things that conf Remer or or said don't set up Stakes that say hitherto shalt Thou come and no further is what Joseph said one Time it feels so good to be untrammeled he says right 46 we get the priest Duty preach teach

expound exhort baptize administer the sacrament that's the root of the priest's Duty that we still follow and to visit the house of each member and exhort them to pray vocally and in secret attend to all family duties that's the root of the ministering program or formally known as home teaching that's the key to your difficulties with ministering right There and ordain other priests teachers and deacons and take the lead if there's no Elder present now I'm going to say this before we read the duties of teachers it's not going to be until the early 1900s

that there's a shift to start ordaining young men teenagers to these priesthood offices now some some were ordained when they were younger in all times of the church but there's a coordinated effort to say let's use the ironic priesthood as a preparatory Priesthood to get young men trained in their priesthood duties but in 1830 right now when we're reading about priest teachers and deacons these were adult men of the church for the most part which is hard for a lot of church members today to kind of picture that we have a 35-year-old Deacon that's important

to grasp uh 53 the teacher's duty is to watch over the church and be with and strengthen them see there's no iniquity in the church nor hardness with Each other lying backbiting evil speaking a joke that's all the teachers today do is uh they're the ones who do all that but remember early on that a teacher literally was a teacher it was somebody who their calling in the priesthood was to teach uh we would almost view this like a quorum or a Sunday instructor today they're called as a teacher and they would including going to

people's home and to teach them to live the principles of the Gospel so That's by the way also why teachers uh are part of ministering and home teaching 57 he's to be assisted always in all of his duties in the church by the deacons if occasion requires that neither the teachers nor the deacons have authority to baptize ad Minister the sacrament or lay on hands so they're clarifying here only a priest can administer the sacrament and baptize they are however to warrn expound invite and I would add to it'll it'll come Later but remember a

deacon their original job was to prepare the physical space that's mostly what a deacon did they were the ones who lit the stove and swept the floor and lit the candles and set up the chairs dusted things off they got the physical space prepared that's what a deacon did we've lost that a little bit in how we used to practice it compared to today but that originally is what a deacon did and that's what some of those grown men did as well 65 is Where we get the foundational practice that no person is to be

ordained in any office of this church or there's a regularly ordained branch of the same without the vote of that church that is why continuing to this day anybody who's going to be ordained to an office they are presented before that body that they're going to serve and it is known by the church that they've been sustained and that they're ordained 70 every member of the church having Children is to bring them unto the elders before the church who are to lay their hands upon them in the name of Jesus Christ and bless them in

his name that's the foundational practice of blessing babies right there baby blessings we can all picture that this is where it began okay 71 nobody's going to get baptized until they're at the years of accountability now early on in the church they did not Define that it will not be until a later Revelation I Believe it's section 68 where the Lord gives an exact age of 8 years old but early on they just said they have to be accountable 73 we get the baptismal prayer which we still follow to this day 74 the baptismal practice

of immersion that we follow 75 we should get together and take the sacrament 7779 Sacrament prayers again you see the foundational practices all of these being followed today then 80 we get if there's any members who are in Transgression they'll be dealt with as the scriptures like kind of ends like what about problematic members what about church discipline what about church discipline uh and originally send uh one or more of the teachers to them in 81 we should still do that today we should just send the teachers and just we go we go handle that

82 there should be a regular list of all the names of the whole church that may be kept in a book by one of the elders with a list of Names of those who have United with the church and so this begins the process of a membership record number now they didn't give a number but they're saying who's members we got to keep uh track and keep a list and this Begins the church's practice of record taking and record keeping and then in 83 anybody who's been cut off from the church their names will be

blotted out uh so you also have the original practice of removing somebody's membership record from the Church those were the early practices uh that the rest of the section lays out there wow so that's kind of the again like we said at the beginning this kind of the church handbook of instructions on how to implement uh everything especially those verses these orthopraxy verses yeah how do we implement the mission uh how do we run meetings who should do what but uh how do we strengthen the Covenant Community and what do we do in uh the

case of Transgression serious transgression we should probably add here too that uh section 22 which is part of this week's reading was often times sort of added as an addendum yeah to section 20 to clarify another procedural thing which was to clarify the need for those who had been previously baptized in other uh Christian branches who are now joining the church the question that came up was do we need to get re-baptized into this church or will our baptism in our Previous Church uh count because that was a thing that was a a common practice

that if you were a Baptist and you switched to be a Methodist you didn't have to get re-baptized because you had already been baptized so the question of many converts was what's the policy there and section 22 answers it answers it really well uh and so oftentimes the answer to that question was appended right here at the end of section 20 yeah I think that context is spot on I think The content that stands out to me is I would highlight in 22 how many times the word covenant is mentioned and in particular he says

all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing and this is a new and an Everlasting Covenant that is really important Doctrine it's almost kind of like the Lord saying hey all all the previous things that have been done and previous dispensations Generations even from other faiths that's awesome but From here forward here forward there is a New Covenant there is a new law there's a new Authority there's a new code the old code is outdated the old standards are done and from here forward you must submit to this Covenant this

Authority this church really potent powerful teaching and then he even says for this cause verse three it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last Covenant and this church to be built up Unto me even as in days of old and so there's almost this that's the whole point of the church the church is here to administer the Covenant and if I had to summarize into one word what we're doing is we are administering the authorized Covenant yeah we're building a Covenant Community Based in this new and Everlasting Covenant yep that

is being brought forth and I know we like to throw the word Authority around and it's a fair argument but I it's just Struck me over the years how verse or how section 22 does not use Authority as the argument he's just saying there's a there's kind of a new there's a new way of doing it that everyone needs to align with now you can use the word Authority solely appropriate but um just how carefully he's going toward the word covenant where maybe our impulse is to go toward the word Authority I like that he's

not making that argument particularly in fact I'm struck by like Section 35 of the doctrine covant where Sydney Rigden who was a preacher very effective preacher baptized a lot of people in his congregation uh not LDS and the Lord just seems to be really like pleased with that and affirms that and says I sent you forth to prepare the way U now we're going to lay my hands on you we're going to ordain you and you're going to now take everyone to the next level so it's not like your baptisms were bad or like they

don't count at all Because they're not by the right Authority he he saying there is now with with the restoration there's a new covenant that we're now inviting everybody into this is now the the funnel where we're trying to get everybody here so bring all your good works of the past and now let's step it up into the into the New Covenant we could squabble over Authority there's not a lot of faith though that are talking about Covenant of trying to Establish a New Covenant uh or a people who are linked into a covenant family

of God but back to Book of Mormon Doctrine title page the one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon is that they may know the covenants of the Lord and so again 22 is hearkening to that we a covenant based people or a covenant committed people that Covenant is by Heavenly Authority and the Lord is going to recognize this new and Everlasting Covenant so join in and I love that they Would attach that section to section [Music] 20 okay so Anthony are there any controversies in section 20 of the doctr covs our third C

there are controversies here there are tell us about Oliver cter he had a beef with a particular verse uh The Way It Was Written here in section 20 even called Joseph out directly tell us what verse and what was the controversy here the controversy is in section 20:37 Where it adds the the list of requirements for baptism and Joseph adds the requirement of uh broken heart and a contrite spirit and manifesting by their works that they've received the remission of their sins and yeah Oliver does not like that addition um I'm going to read to

you from Joseph's history yeah he and and to Oliver's credit here you know we can crack on Oliver and after I read this reminiscent from Joseph account we kind of be like well Joseph you're over or Oliver you're overstepping a little bit there but in section six of the doctrine covenants Oliver is told to watch over Joseph and to admonish him in his faults and so to admonish him yeah yeah I mean Oliver might be thinking he's doing his scriptural Duty here uh although from my perspective he takes it a little far does if I

could say that nicely Joseph writes in his 1839 history I received a Letter from Oliver cry the contents of which gave me both sorrow and uneasiness the above quotation he said was erone and that's the one about manifesting by their works and commanded me in the name of God to erase those words from that Commandment that there be no priestcraft be among us I immediately wrote to him in reply in which I asked him by what Authority he took upon him to command me to alter or erase to add or diminish to from a revelation

or commandment from The almighty God I sure yeah that's a great response there from Joseph how are you calling me out to change a verse that I got by Revelation that I got by Revelation I shortly after paid him a visit I'm back to Joseph's a reminiscent account here when I found that he had persuaded father Whitmer and most of the family that the above was in error and it was with great diff you got I mean like most people I think the prophet's wrong I think he's off base here it's Not good enough just

to leave it alone you got to convince other people that you're right and he's wrong yep Y and remember Oliver cry's uh going to marry a Whitmer daughter so he's a a son-in-law and he's convincing the whole Whitmer family Joseph just says and it was with great difficulty and much labor that I prevailed with any of them to reason calmly on the subject however Christian Whitmer at length got convinced that it was reasonable and in According to scripture and finally with his assistance I succeeded in bringing not only all the Whitmer family but also Oliver

himself to acknowledge that they had been an error and that the above quotation was in accordance with the rest of the Commandment so you can see here Joseph this is just like H and most of what Joseph added was coming from ronai 6 except for that one line except that one line that one line and so Oliver's being a careful editor a Careful Watcher over but probably someone who's a little overzealous uh until Joseph convinces him uh from other scripture of the of the rightness of that concept there and ironically enough it will be Oliver

who sustains the uh minutes uh who sustains and present section 20 uh in I believe it's the September conference so he obviously was yeah was convinced so yeah he'll stand up and read the whole thing out loud to the church's conference y Yeah so so by September he's good by September he's good but it takes the summer uh to to to bring him around on that first controversy there does doctrine of Covenants 20 ver1 announc Jesus's birthday woo uh some people say yes and some people say no did you see the word birthday in in

the in the verse I saw the word birthday in there didn't didn't you oh it I did not that's see this is part of the problem clarify so here's verse one the rise of The Church of Christ in these last days being 1,830 years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh it being regularly organized and established according to laws of the country etc etc in the fourth month on the sixth day of the month which is called April so is that line saying being 1,830 years since the coming of

our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh skip down on the sixth day of the Month which is called April is that saying Jesus was born on April 6 Anthony there's a strong uh kind of a in the book Jesus the Christ I think we can trace it back to him he he read it like that U other Apostles have read it not like that I remember uh Elder Orson Pratt saying he thought it was several days later like April 10th I know Elder makoni and uh president Jay Ruben Clark Jr who in the

first presidency said they preferred maybe a December date uh on His birthday so there's been various Apostles who've come down differently on this and they're not all reading section 20 ver1 the way Elder talage did I would say we also have modern Apostles president Kimble and Elder Bednar who have used April uh for the birthday whether it is or isn't April or December or whenever I don't think is really the point I would get to the heart of what section 20 verse one's saying which is it's a fancy way of saying April 6th 1830 totally

that's a fancy way of expressing a date back then 1800s fancy way of talking in fact yeah there's reason to believe that John Whitmer is the one who wrote verse one since the discovery of the book of Commandments and Revelations manuscript of section 20 which we didn't have for many years it showed that verse one was actually an introductory headnote written by early church historian John Whitmer something he did for several of the revelations And this is how John Whitmer writes let me quote him on a in a different place he said this listen carefully

quote it is now June the 12th 1,831 years since the coming of our Lord and savior In the Flesh does that mean Jesus was born on June the 12th no it's John whitmer's way of saying in fancy 1800's language June 12th 1831 right that's it so Jesus could be born on April 6 that's one of 365 possibilities um other other Apostles Have come down on different days uh different historians have come down on different days U one of our colleagues Jeff Chadwick has written a fantastic article going into all of the scholarly arguments looking at

the date of the death of Herod and other things that scriptural and textually we would kind of try to triangulate in order to pin that down dating the birth of Christ is the name of his article dating the birth of Christ so if you want to get into That uh argument you can uh it could be April 6 what we're saying I think with this controversy is section 20 verse1 is not making a declaration about that uh don't don't use verse one uh to make your case basically is that fair that's fair and I would

say Joseph by Revelation was told the precise day when to organize the church and he was told to organize it on April 6th of 1830 now to be very clear the Lord does not or at least in the record That Joseph left he doesn't say why now you could make an assumption that because that's his birth day or maybe that's his resurrection day or maybe spring equinox or yeah Joseph gets by Revelation to do it on April 6 it's something significant about that day but the Lord doesn't delineate it and verse one isn't making a

statement about his birth directly although it possibly could be April [Music] 6th all right so to wrap up section 20 let's talk about the consequences of this section so first of all this section is announcing the church's legitimacy stating that it exists because God commanded Apostles to establish it number two it's outlin in the church's foundational history founding narrative and that from that comes the founding doctrines and Theology and beliefs that that flow out of that and then the practices that flow Out of those uh fundamental theological uh points so history Theology and practice that

flow out of that the only thing i' add is as you study later revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants anytime you read according to the covenants or according to to the Articles like here's section 28:14 Thou shalt assist to settle all these things according to the covenants of the church here's section 33:14 you shall remember the church articles and Covenants to keep them here's section 42 uh the section known as the law verse 13 they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them anytime you read phrases like that in your brain or in

your scriptures note that's section 20 even the Lord in l Revelations he's going to uh reiterate the importance of section 20 to reference and to follow and it's really the Forerunner of a modern day uh Handbook of instructions where today in the church we say well What does the handbook say we should follow what the handbook says do these things according to the handbook to the handbook yep so hard to overestimate the uh significance and importance of section 20 of the doctrine of covenants as absolutely foundational to the church from the 18 1930s all the

way up to today honestly okay that is section 20 let's transition over to section 21 of the doctrine of covenants and boy also so significant the very first revelation Given on the founding day of the church on April 6 1830 speaking of uh we actually get a revelation that day and that is section 21 uh in fet New York uh right there in the Whitmer home [Music] president Hinkley called it a day of commencement the graduation of Joseph Smith from 10 years of remarkable schooling I love that that phrase uh there I think it would

be good just to read real quick from Joseph's history Where he says what happens at the meeting on April 6th 1830 yeah and before we before we jump into Joseph's account of that day it' be fun to maybe paint a picture as you mentioned previously the Lord uh does designated specifically this day April 6 1830 and it's kind of funny CU if you go back and look on your calendar that was actually a Tuesday so the church is actually established on Tuesday uh I don't know for some reason in my head I always Thought it

was a Sunday um but it was not it was a Tuesday and a picture about 50 people or so crowded into this little Peter Whitmer log home uh there in fayet to try to to witness the event a lot of people will know that there were six original members and this is because there was a New York state law requiring if you wanted to start a a a religious Society you needed to have six people officially sign a certificate of incorporation uh so Minimum of six and so if you want to do some fun little

trivia who were the original six members of the church I bet people can probably guess two out of the six right away right y it's going to be Joseph and Oliver they've got to be there U who else we're also going to have ham Smith which is cool Peter Whitmer Jr Samuel Smith Joseph's brother and David Whitmer so those are the the six who volunteered to be on the official original certificate of Incorporation in New York so anyway that's kind of the the setting we got six official about 50 or so in the in the

the log home it's a Tuesday what happens next you know Joseph and Oliver by the way previous a number of months previous had been praying to uh know if they could ordain each other or give each other the gift of the Holy Ghost yeah and they're praying in the chamber of Father Whitmer that section 128 makes a reference to and the voice of the Lord Tells them to do it but to wait until the church can be assembled and organized to do it and so part of what they're going to do is also not only

organize the church but they're going to take care of these first ordinations and sustainings so this is from Joseph's history we made known to our Brethren that we had received a commandment to organize the church and according we met together for that purpose at the house of Mr Peter Whitmer Senor being six in Number again those are the six you mentioned for the official organizing on Tuesday the 6th of April ad 1,830 having opened the meeting by solemn prayer to our Heavenly Father we proceeded according to previous commandment to call on our Brethren to know

whether they accepted us as their teachers in the things of the kingdom of God and whether they were satisfied that we should proceed and be organized as a church according to said commandment Which we had received to these several propositions they consent Ed by a unanimous vote I then laid my hands upon Oliver cry and ordained him an elder of the Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints and by the way I would make a note that Joseph is writing this later in 1838-39 after the full name of the church has been revealed after which

he ordained me also to the office of an elder of said Church they're following again the direction they had been given Earlier in the chamber of Father Whitmer there we then took bread blessed it and and break it with them also wine blessed it and drink it with them we then laid our hands on each individual member of the church present that they might receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and be confirmed members of the Church of Christ the Holy Ghost was poured out upon us to a very great degree some prophesied while we

praised the Lord and rejoiced exceedingly while yet together I received the following commandment or Revelation which is section 21 of the doctrine covenants so right there on the day and in the place that the church was organized we now get section 21 [Music] yep okay so let's dive into the content of this Revelation what exactly does the Lord say there in that context you know this really ripe Rich season of rejoicing uh what what now does the Lord say uh let me let me pick it up here in Verse one first commandment to the church

behold there shall be a record kept among you uh if you go down downtown to the uh church history Department you can go into the archives and you'll see this emblazoned up on the on the wall as you walk in there's this language behold there shall be a record kept among you and we've taken that very very seriously uh since day one uh to keep a record of our church and that's not the end of the sentence and in it in This record the Lord says Thou Joseph Smith shall be called a Seer a translator

a prophet an apostle of Jesus Christ an elder of the church through the will of God the Father the grace of your lord Jesus Christ being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof and to build it up under the Most Holy Faith I love that right here all three members of the godhead are mentioned in verses 1 and two as having played a role in the establishment of This church it's interesting in those titles that Joseph's given he is called a prophet well I'll give him an order a Seer a translator a

prophet an apostle and an elder now those are all important titles but what do you notice is missing of a common one that we say in the church today Revelator Revelator and I personally this is just my own personal take on this so I could be wrong of course but I think it's going to be later in the summer that Summer and then the controversy in the September 1830 conference with Hyrum page where hyam page is going to claim Revelations to guide the chur Church where the Lord will give very clear direction that no there's

only one person who gets revelations in this church for the church to guide it and I almost wonder if that was the impetus for sustaining Joseph as the Revelator uh for the church so I could be reading into that wrong um but it's an Interesting note that in this titles they don't mention the Revelator for the whole church I am intrigued by your hypothesis I think you might be right it's just a hypothesis there but it's a good one I think it's solidly based in the history and I mean you you can clearly read right

in this Revelation in fact we're about to go there verse four it is implied here it's not even implied it's explicitly stated here that Joseph is a Revelator let me read it wherefore Meaning the church Thou shalt give heed unto all his the prophet Joseph's words and Commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth with them there's the Revelation walking in all Holiness before me for his word ye shall receive as if from mine own mouth in all patience and faith verse four and five are clearly saying Joseph's going to be receiving Revelations

for the church but but I like that you're you're suggesting that perhaps the crisis uh this coming September is going to be the impetus for let's add the title there let's let's say Revelator as well clearly Joseph is going to be getting Revelations but it doesn't clarify that he's the only one to be giving the revelations for the church it doesn't mention anybody else I guess would be the Counterpoint it just mentions him but but yeah I I see how people could maybe see a little bit of wiggle room in there clearly hyam page felt

at Liberty to give a revelation to The whole church in section 28 yes so we will definitely tackle that controversy when we tackle section 28 but there's are the teaser and I love that verse four and five are are laying out like an order in the church uh which I guess needs to be highlighted more intensely later but it's saying Jesus to Joseph to church members right it's establishing the prophet's role the prophet's role is to walk in Holiness before me and receive Revelations for the church and The church memb role is to give heed

to those Revelations that the prophet receives as if from the mouth of Jesus and do this in patience and faith and if you do then comes the powerful promise of ver vers six for by doing these things the Gates of Hell shall not Prevail against you ye the Lord God will disperse the powers of Darkness from before you and cause the Heavens to shake for your good and his name's glory and then he reiterates for thus sayith The Lord God him Joseph Smith have I inspired to move the cause of Zion in Mighty power for

good and his diligence I know and his prayers I know and he goes on to say and his weeping for Zion I know and let's let Joseph weep no longer all right let's if we can have the church come and support the revelations he's been receiving and follow them diligently this is going to be the beginning of of great blessing in the church that's pretty awesome in fact The Lord says one more time in verse n he reiterates I will bless you if you follow these words Behold I will bless all those who labor in

my vineyard with a mighty blessing and they Shall Believe on his words Joseph Smith which are given him through me by the comforter that's Revelation which manifested that Jesus was crucified by sin ful men for the sins of the world yay for the remission of sins under the contrite heart so that same spirit that bears Witness that Jesus was crucified is the Same Spirit by which Joseph's receiving Revelation and you'll be blessed as you follow his Revelations uh that's good that's how it starts Anthony this is the Lord laying out the order of how he

sees this playing out I give Revelations to the prophet church members rally around those Revelations support him in patience and faith and let's go let's build Zion right there April 6 1830 from the get-go just lazy like the first Meeting of the church talk about a like a jump start like Bam could you imagine me in that first meeting Joseph's like hold on write this down yeah right in front of everybody showing the Lord guiding him from the very get-go and it's evident that he is I really do like the patience and faith that's been

highlighted before that shows that patience and faith might be tested at times through directives that are being given or teachings if it didn't Then the Lord wouldn't from the get-go wouldn't have said hey there's times you're going to have to learn to be patient and there's other times where you're going to have to walk by faith here uh on [Music] this I think that is an issue for some right uh and it could come from a misreading maybe we could talk about this does section 21 ver4 and 5 we just read is that saying that

every word the Church President says is as if Jesus is saying it and if that's how you want to read it then how do you reconcile that reading with statements like you know when Joseph says a prophet is only a prophet when he's acting as such or uh Brigham Young here's a quote from briam Young he says can a prophet be mistaken I will acknowledge that all the time president Oaks said back in 2018 we don't believe in the infallibility of our leaders and we could go on with Other quotes like that well many of

our Apostles have acknowledged very much that they can make error sometimes doctrinal ones uh policy issues whatever they can have opinions whatever right you know Brigham Young said I I I I'm fearful that the Saints will settle down in a state of blind self-security and Reckless confidence in their leaders U that kind of thing so so I'm hearing on the one hand people quoting section 21:4 and 5 saying whatever he says it's Basically as if Jesus says it and then I'm hearing on the other hand uh the apostles themselves Joseph briam young and modern leader

saying well we're not infallible we're not Jesus right it's it's not that everything we say is as if Jesus saids so so let's walk through kind of how how should we navigate that uh is it just a misreading of verses four and five or is there more work that needs to be done here what do you think I listened to a previous episode that You and Casey did on Section 3 through five and you guys tackled that very well on Joseph's prophetic mistake of losing the 116 pages that was a Whopper welcome to the restoration

you lost Holy Scripture the testifies of Christ and the restoration for the whole world so I'd recommend number one people go back and listen to your discussion on prophetic fallibility there but I I might tie it back to verse 9 that you read Scott behold I will bless all those Who labor in my vineyard with a mighty blessing and they Shall Believe on his words now first of all I think sometimes we can get lost in this discussion a little bit and it's hard we can get you know Caught In The Weeds on some things

yeah to me the big key is let's labor in the vineyard let's serve in our callings let's do our duties let's fulfill our stewardships individually and the Lord promises that if we do that we will receive a blessing that we'll believe on The prophet's words that we will be able to know that they are prophets of God now that doesn't directly answer is every single word I say to myself I'm going to let president Russell M Nelson lead the church and guide it uh yeah that's not my stewardship my stewardship is to be a really

good husband a really good father as best I can to serve in my callings in my ward and stake to do my ministering to serve God's children around me to be kind to have faith have Hope if I labor in the vineyard in my stewardship the Lord will bless me with a mighty blessing that Joseph Smith down to russem Nelson are his servants and that they are guiding this church that testimony has been given to me so deeply and I prize that over parsing out whether every single word is or isn't a revelatory decree from

almighty God but I will say on the second part you'll not only believe his words in verse 9 which are given him through me by the Comforter which manifested that Jesus was crucified by sinful men for the sins of the world I would connect those two things how so I 10 we go a little off base in my opinion where we don't connect the promise to pray about read and Ponder on the mercies of God and then connect it to the subsequent gifts of the Spirit that are promised and we' got to connect those there's

fruits that come from it in other words you can't connect the the Revel the Revelation From the fruits I would connect here I think he's making a connection that the comforter it's the comforter whole job is to lead you and I to Christ the comforter job is not to give us a blanket or to make us good at math or to help us remember people's names now it might do all of those things but that's not its primary role its primary role is to lead me to Jesus Christ it testifies of Christ and where prophets

are infallible we talk in my opinion Sometimes a little too much about prophetic fallibility and we need to talk about the area where they're infallible they're infallible in their witness that Jesus is the Christ the son of God resurrected in glory I know when proph are prophets and when they're speaking as prophets when the comforter testifies of prophets by Leading me to Christ to learn of him to follow him to be like him and to be his disciple I love that I think that's very beautiful And uh really well said the text itself I would

argue if someone's arguing this that verse four and five says you should everything they say is as if Jesus is saying I would say the text does not support you the text says follow his words as he receiveth them right there's the Revelation and verse 9 believe on his words which are given him through me by the comforter like I don't think anyone will have a problem saying that whatever is communicated from the Lord To The Prophet by Revelation is true and should be believed and sustained but because it's not always clear for you and

me it's not always obvious when the Lord's Prophet is or isn't sharing that which is given him by me through the comforter to quote verse n and and like you said it's not always our role to be able to to tell that I I think that's what the end of verse 5 is saying that the church members posture toward the prophet is to be one of Patience and faith rather than doubt and suspicion it's not we're not always trying to catch and was that the Lord or was that uh that's that's the wrong mindset and

heart set it's it's about uh patience and faith knowing that as the Lord says here I I've seen Joseph's tears for Zion he sins but I've forgiven him he mentions that here again I I've forgiven his sins he is good he's not perfect he is good and I'm guiding him and I'm Asking you church members to please with your patience and with your faith help the cause of Zion I think that's the posture that he wants us to have toward the Church president uh with under No Illusion that he's perfect under No Illusion that he

is Jesus but man he works for him and and he is uh he is someone that the Lord trusts and works with with and if the Lord needs a prophet corrected I think the Lord's going to do it himself uh he's the he's The Lord's servant anyway that that's just kind of where my mind goes with all that just to add to what you said which was great um is uh you know patience and faith is so key in this it's built in right there from day one on the 6th of April 1830 amen I

really like that I like that posture of trust that the fancy word is you know hermeneutics you're you're gonna you're well let me give a better one it is difficult for anybody in any relationship to maintain A relationship if you don't approach it in a spirit of trust and in a spirit of love if it's approach in a spirit of Suspicion and a spirit of doubt that relationship won't flourish no matter how great the person is and I think that holds true for the Lord's servants I would put my trust in those 15 prophet seers

and revelators over over any other 15 human beings collection of 15 human beings That I can think of to help guide me on the path uh to follow my savior and so we have to approach it with anybody in a spirit of trust and patience and faith I like I like how you've framed that of it's the spirit of the posturing towards it and think about it Joseph Smith was 24 years old when this Revelation was given can you imagine being in this church with a 24-year-old Prophet I don't know what it is about having

older leaders now but I don't know somehow They seem wiser and more seasoned and whatever I only imagine that that original group uh hearing these words for the first time that uh you know the words patience and faith with this 24y old Prophet yeah it obviously doesn't matter how old the prophet is if he's God's Prophet he's God's Prophet but it's been true then it's still true today and that relationship like if you're going to help a relationship flourish it's not going to be in the Spirit of doubt and suspicion it's going to be in

the spirit of patience Faith trust uh with a heart that's trying to help out a willingness to to sustain and [Music] support well let's go then to our final C for section 21 we'll wrap all this up today uh consequences of section 21 What flows out of this first and foremost the Lord wants a record kept and this begins a tradition of keeping records collecting documents recording our Church's history a lot of what we're able to talk about on this podcast and in our our history and as we talk about our history is because church

members actually uh heeded verse one of section 21 they kept records and now we can tell their stories second section 21 begins to set forth this order in the Church of Christ regarding Revelation Jesus giving Revelations to the prophet and who then gives those to the church and that the church members role is to give heed to Sustain as the prophet receives them walking in all Holiness before me so it's really setting up this relationship between Jesus prophets and the church when the meeting's over several members are baptized including people like Porter Rockwell Martin Harris

by the way and Joseph Smith's own parents when this meeting closed after this Revelation was given Joseph said we dismissed with the pleasing knowledge that we were now individually members of and acknowledged Of God the Church of Jesus Christ and that evening after the organization of the church and after section 21's given Joseph goes into the woods to pray alone in Joseph Knight uh senior's recollection he says that Joseph went out into those uh woods and wept like a child uh in his recollection he says uh his Joy seemed to be full I think he

saw the great work that he had begun and he was desirous to carry it out so just a great just culminating day for Joseph to See his parents and Martin and others join and to see the work start and he's almost overflowing with emotion at the goodness of God and working through him to that point this is the first time that his family members are uniting together in one Faith uh again another personal note there what might be behind those tears of joy yeah for Joseph what a fun ride man section 20 21 and we

did a little on 22 what a great week we hope that uh this has been helpful for all of You out there and thank you again Anthony for joining me today and oh thanks for inviting me brother can't replace Casey and uh all your listeners will probably be happy when he jumps back on but thanks for letting me uh be a part of it today and and study these marvelous Revelations together I love the voice and the work of the Lord in them 100% honor to be with you brother thanks my friend take care [Music]

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