World's #1 Interrogation Expert: How To Spot a LIAR & Make Them Confess IMMEDIATELY - Chase Hughes

When you're working intelligence operations, you get to this point where you're like, "Any day might be the last day. If we don't do something drastic, right now we're all dead." Today I sit down with an ex black beret. We go through some serious crazy training and it's the most stressful thing you can imagine. We should not be seen. We should be forgotten the next day. This guy spent over 20 years on a Secret ship doing very secret things, learning how to interrogate people from all around the world to literally get them to give up secrets

of intelligence. If you look at anyone who's successful, they've mastered these three things. You look at anyone who's failed, they failed at one of these three things. And that's uh observation, communication, and then selfmastery. We talked about how to spot if someone's lying to you and the exact things that you need to look for and the Things that most people think give off information that someone's lying, but they get it completely wrong. What's really important is being good at detecting change. So, if I see a big pile of changes, I can be almost certain that

this person is being deceptive. We talked about how to then get people to voluntarily confess and to get them to give up information. If you're ever talking to somebody and you want sensitive information, the less Questions you ask, the better. So using statements is a really effective way to do this. And this one is called triggering a need to correct the record. The study of neuroscience, medical neuroscience, and then neuroindocrinology. I found out I had epilepsy and it was temporal lobe epilepsy. So it hits you right in the hippocampus where our memories are and it

is soul shaking. My seizures were about 60 seconds long. It's it's a it's a horror movie. By the end of this interview, you're going to learn exactly how to spot liars. You're going to learn how to make them confess to you. But most importantly, you're going to learn how to read people like you've never learned how to read them before. You're going to learn what really drives people at a deep unconscious level, why all people are wearing masks, and how to use this to your advantage to get them to give up Information that they have

never told anybody. And if you're brand new to this channel, welcome to the Dream Out Loud podcast. Make sure you subscribed wherever you're listening or watching this because we put out interviews and episodes every single week to help you learn the skill set and the mindset to create your dream life. So, without further ado, please help me and welcome multiple best-selling author, world's number one body language expert, Chase Hughes. Chase Hughes, welcome to the podcast. Good to be here, man. Well, you're here at at my house. I've come all the way to the middle of

nowhere, literally. But I'm I'm very very excited for this conversation. I've watched a lot of your stuff online. Um, when it comes to this topic, I'm really curious about it. And you're someone who's done it for it to like a whole new extreme. You're like One of the top in the world educators when it comes to finding deception, influence, and all these sorts of things. So, I want to get right into it and I want to ask you, are you better at influence and persuasion or spotting liars and getting them to confess? I think getting

a confession is influence and persuasion, but I would say I'm much better at uh influence and persuasion. Where else has it? So you spent 20 years On a navy ship doing secret stuff or we we can dive into a little bit later outside of the professional career. How have you found it useful in the everyday life and business and the sales? And I think what people tend to think is that if I just get this script or if I just get this thing of what to say I want to be better. So when I go

train sales departments or companies, they're like, "Oh, we need a we need more scripts for our sales team because These scripts aren't converting." I always tell them it's not I discovered I spent 10 years in search of the perfect script. And getting into regular life, you see that everything is about human skills and who you are as a person is 80% of influence. And I think it matters. What the biggest thing that I've ever learned in my life was that when it comes to influence that and that's parenting, leadership, management, whatever you're doing in Your

life, 80% of that is who you are. 10% is what you say and do and 10% is who the other person is. So our character matters more than anything else. And that's that's been replicated in a bazillion studies. 10% reading other people. What do you mean by that? Well, 10% is what you say when it comes to persuasion. That's only about 10%. And everyone tends to focus on this 10%. This is everybody from the CIA all the Way down to a a car sales company that does used cars. They're focused on like how do I

say the right things instead of how do I change who I am? So, the question should always now be who do I have to be to make this person do X, Y, and Z. The scripts are great, but the scripts are great to have once you've got the human element mastered. You've got some a level of selfmastery there and some confidence that makes a difference. And one thing I always say, Like I can give you the perfect script. If I give you a flight checklist for a Boeing 737, it does not make you a pilot.

Like there's there's time and energy that goes into that. So it who you are being a pilot matters more than I possess a checklist on how to take this plane off. Okay. So when it comes to well actually before I move on then I want to understand this a little bit more for the people the people who might just got Their heart broken thinking but I've been doing the scripts they're still important. Yeah. So what is the obviously if you say 10% and there's the 80% what is it that we've got to sort of master

within or be more aware of within when it comes to influence? This is our level of authority. And a good example of this is the Mgrim experiment where they got a a person to shock or they thought they were shocking A total stranger in another room to death. They made them shocked them to death. 67% of the people complied all the way to the end. This high voltage. But didn't 100% go past the point where they would have killed them. Yeah. 100% went past 200 volts. Yeah. Uh and that was because of authority. like there

was no script. So you think selling cars is hard or selling pharmaceutical products is hard and then You see this like talking someone into murder, I would argue is harder than sales. Uh and they didn't have any scripts. They didn't have some perfect thing written down. It was authority. And it in what I teach authority is comprised of five elements and that is confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude and enjoyment. Those five things make you an authority figure. And if I might uh extend this answer a little bit, the Number one mistake, the number one thing that

people mentally make uh that that ruins their success is thinking that confidence or authority has anything to do with anybody else. Because when somebody says the word I have authority here or I have authority, they're thinking in terms of some social hierarchy like I'm above this person or I'm I'm over these people and hierarchy is and status are not related in any way to authority and self-confidence. So that's the biggest mistake. So getting out of your head to the point where you never ever for the rest of your life, if I'm talking to one of

your viewers right now, never for the rest of your life think about hierarchy, pecking order, and status ever again because that's the number one thing that destroys you. That's so interesting because I've always thought about that. So authority you're saying is the one of The biggest things then when it comes to influence. So you mentioned the five things. So can we touch a bit more more on this? Like how do we really develop more authority in our everyday life? Yeah. One thing I'll do, I have a a document that took me 20 years to build

and it's a survey to measure your level of authority and tell you exactly where you're lacking it. And I'll give you can put it in your show notes to you as soon as we're done. Um, so when it comes to authority, we have confidence first. And confidence is just comfort. If you just think of it as I being comfortable. So, if you were the type of person, and I'll say this to you, if you've ever struggled with I'm compare myself, where am I on this pecking order? How am I doing on this hierarchy? The only

way that I compare myself to other people, and this is what I would recommend for everybody watching This, is am I more comfortable than that? Am I more comfortable than that other person? So, the challenge would not be to be better or higher than the person. It is to be more comfortable. And the fastest way to do that is I train my body to move slower than everybody else in the room. I'm slower. That's it. I'm speaking more confidently, more securely. I'm speaking more slowly. That's the challenge from here on if You're trying to do

confidence. And confidence is all about permission. 100%. It's about permission. Do I feel permission to behave a certain way in this context? And most people think that there is something that will tell me what I can do. But actual confidence means I'm gonna do everything I I want to do. I don't need a permission slip to feel confident. And we could go into that for a whole hour by itself. Yeah. Then we have discipline. And I just define discipline as your ability to prioritize your future self ahead of your present self. That's it. And the

simplest way to start hacking into discipline is to get dopamine from discipline. So, like the night before you go to bed, um you were just standing in my kitchen a few minutes ago. I've got a little curig coffee maker there. So, before I go to bed, I'm putting the coffee in there, lifting the lid, making Sure there's water there, putting my coffee mug there, ready to go. So, when I wake up, I go flip and I push a button. So, I'm setting things up for my future self to where I'm developing a relationship with my

future self. So, I'm I'm no longer looking backwards with regret. I'm looking backwards with gratitude. thankful for everything that I did in uh just a few months ago. I did this uh since summertime is coming around. We're filming this in the Summer. Uh in the spring, I'll put like $50 or $100 bills in some of my winter coats just as like cuz I'll find that later. I'll forget about it, but I'll find it later in the year and it's a gift to myself. I'm getting dopamine from me. I become my source of dopamine. So the

best way to do that and and people see like, oh that guy's somebody's going to the gym all the time. He's got so much discipline. That's not discipline. That's a habit. That took like a tablespoon of discipline to get started. That's all you're seeing. So somebody's eating healthy, they're disciplined. That's they're not. They just have a habit. So the fastest way to get a habit is to figure out how can I get dopamine from me doing this? So those little things, what can I do today? Not just for myself 20 years from now, but how

can I how can I get myself quick rewards tomorrow? I'm going to lay my clothes out, Everything set up. I've got everything like I wake up and it's like I had a butler overnight like set all this stuff up for me. When I wake up, I'm like, "Wow." So I'm like thankful to myself. And how is that something that plays a role in being more authoritative? Just having discipline. I I'll give you an example. If you and I were sitting in an airport, you're going to be going down to Raleigh Durham Airport here in a

few hours. If you and I were hanging out There in the airport and I said, "Morgan, look around the room right here. You're not a professional behavior profiler, but can you find somebody that's disciplined?" We could see it. We feel discipline on people because they behave differently. They act differently. And if I say look around and find somebody that's confident, your brain knows how to spot that. Your brain knows how to do that. It's been doing it for a million years since we've been Kind of evolving. And all of these things trigger the human brain

to say this person is more followable than that person. So when we see authority figures, it's our mamalian animal brain saying that looks more easy to follow. So just having that and then leadership is being more followable. Am I communicating clearly? Do I complete my movements? So you'll see people that do half movements. So They want to reach for a water glass and you'll see that like they don't want kind of do it all the way or like they'll they'll like Oh yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So they don't complete movements that makes them automatically

you become less followable which makes you less of a leader. Wow. And you think that they're maybe doing that out of like a nervousness like don't know what to do in that moment or Yes. Come thinking back like I've definitely done that and like if there's sometimes I'm like oh what happened? Yeah. And so have I. So what happens is our brain starts doing these calculations and says, "What am I am I going to pick up at water dust? I'm going to pick this up and I'm going to look comfortable. I'm going to look cool."

So that means we're living behind our eyes. Our experience is back here Behind my eyes. So I want to focus on in conversations all of my presence, my focus. If I'm confident and comfortable, I'm not behind my eyes. I want to be in front of my eyes in the conversation. So that just the confidence and being comfortable and having permission to act puts you in front of your eyes. So that's the experience of like I'm going to stop doing behaviors because I'm overthinking those behaviors. Instead of should I get a drink of water, it's I

Want water and I'm going to I'm going to do that and complete that behavior. Okay. So we covered what did we cover? Discipline leadership. Yes. Gratitude. And you're like, "Well, well, how would gratitude have an effect?" But if we were still sitting in that airport and I said, "Find somebody that's grateful and you see somebody with those wrinkles Right here and you see them like and just enjoying the mundane act of walking through an airport and you see just a very slight smile on their face. So gratitude is kind of a waterfall into that enjoyment.

So a person who's enjoying themselves, they don't have to be partying all the time. This is not like you're it's not about energy level. It's about mindset in the moment. So it's not enjoyment doesn't mean I'm in the middle of some party and everybody's I'm I bring the party everywhere I go. That's not what that is. That that's excitement. So what we're talking about is enjoyment. So if I'm in a good mood and I'm quietly calmly enjoying things that I'm doing, that automatically makes me more magnetic. And the moment you become more magnetic, you're automatically

more followable. So those are the five traits that make a person more followable. Confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. And that's one of the main things, right? Because what I want to talk about next, it's what do we need to understand about people and the brain when it comes to like what do we need to know first in order to influence and from what you just said there is cuz I know like part of our brains, one of the most important things is we want to stay alive. So millions of years ago, we're safer in

a clan. We're safer with the tribe. So I guess that's probably why if we find Someone who's oh they're the the authority person I feel safe to follow them that's probably why it's a a thing right so what do we need to understand about the brain before we dive into depths of influence and spotting lies and all this yeah so let's let's do a little hierarchy of the brain so the brain kind of let's start at the bottom if you ask most people and I do this when I speak at big seminars and stuff I

tell Everybody like pick up your finger and then point to the base of your brain and everybody points right here like your brain is the end of your brain is down here. Your spine like the Vegas nerve. Yeah. So at the end of your spinal cord, the end of our spinal cord is called the coda equinina which is Latin for horse tail because it looks like a horse tail of nerves coming right. Yeah, I've seen that. So that's the actual base of our brain. So spinal cord, brain stem, then this mamalian brain, and then the

human brain on top of it, which is the neoortex, which is Latin for new cover. It's just a new covering on top of the other brain. And you got to think of that in terms of like the way that I persuade somebody, the lower I can get my persuasion to work on that person's brain, 100% more effective it is. So the deeper so Yeah. Okay. So one one Of them would be like impulse and instinct down here. Then emotions and behavioral patterns. Then up here would be thoughts and ideas. And most people I'm going to

study how to change people's thoughts and ideas. That's what they study. They don't understand how to change that mamalian brain of other people. How do I capitalize? How do I kind of capture and lead the attention of that mamalian brain? So how do we do that? Like what what's the mamleian brain looking for? This is like you talk about scripts and these sort of things. This where this is it. So the mamalian brain looks for four things. And we have an acronym for this called fate. F A T because that determines our fate. So it's

super easy to remember. And I accidentally spelled out fate. And I was so excited like when I was like coming up with how this model works, it spelled fate on accident when It was the most exciting thing ever. So fate stands for focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. Those are what influenced our ancestors in that order. In that order. Interesting. Because we need to get focused first. So let's go back like two, let's go back 10,000 years and tribal communities. Let's say that you go out and you're hunting buffalo every day. So you take Your spear,

you walk down this path, and then one day you're walking back to the village, sun's setting, you're walking back to this path, and right behind a bush, a stick snaps. Where is your focus? Yeah. In right on that right on that bush. It's are you not thinking about your kids? You're not thinking about your tribe. You're not thinking about anything else except for that stick. So that's where Novelty, something that's new or unusual or unexpected, capitalizes focus in the animal brain. And then we have authority. Take that same guy. The stick snapping behind the bush

was just a rabbit or something like that. Uh so the stick snapping doesn't have to be a threat. It's a potential value as well, right? So you see a rabbit back there, that's food. But you see a sable truth tiger back there, that's also a big deal. That's why we evolved to default to negative thought patterns. Because if you go to our ancestors, the ancestors that lived were more likely to mistake a rock for a bear and not mistake a bear for a rock. That's so true. So like if I'm in a certain mindset, let's

say I have uh social anxiety or I am I I'm lacking in confidence. Just walking through a grocery store, a neutral face looks judgmental. It looks Angry. It looks threatening. So our brain will perceive it based on our mindset. So once you start becoming a lot more confident, you're going to see happier faces. It's the exact same face. You're going to see more faces that are open and welcoming and happy. Not because their faces change, but it's because your perception changed. But we get a lot safer if we default to negative. If I see a

neutral facial expression in front of me, if I just Naturally default to that's potentially threatening, that that saves my life. M so you know you know what um happened to me the other day at my house. I was thinking about this. I was so pissed off at myself after it. Um because I'm fully aware of like this influence and all these things and and it scares me how easily we can be influenced and persuaded and you know Yeah. And because I live in an apartment Building, okay, so this is probably I I reverse engineer after

I'm like how the [ __ ] did that happen? I'm sitting in my office. Usually if somebody comes up, you know, they ring the doorbell. So I have to ring ring the intercom and then I go over who's I have a camera and if I want you to ever come up to my house I'll let you up otherwise I'm like I'm I'm busy like drop the parcel off or whatever. Yeah. I'm sitting there in my office and I Hear a knock on the door. Novelty like different. Who knocks on my door? You have to be

on my level. You know what I mean? Like you have to buzz up to the level. So I'm like that's weird. So okay it's probably important. And I go out there. I open the door and I just see a guy and the first thing he said to me was, "Hey, I just need to come in. I need to check this thing out the back. And I said, "Yeah, come." And he just he walked in and um then he Walked in. He walked out the back and I sat back down at my computer and I just

go, "What the fuck?" I'm like, "Who is this guy actually? Who is this guy?" Yeah. And then I walked back out, I looked at him and I'm like, "What are you doing?" And he's like, "Oh, I'm just going to check these lights or blah blah blah." And uh he wasn't in a uniform, but you could see it was some type of uh He wasn't just like a casual. It was some in between. It wasn't high viz, nothing like that, but it was just like a car key sort of, you know, like maybe maintenance or something.

Yeah. But it played out. It was about 30 seconds where I was completely he just got he just went into my home. He didn't say, "Hello, this is me." Nothing. Just knock knock. Yeah, I just need to check this thing. Yeah, sure. Come in. And Then I was just casual about it. I got so pissed off. I'm like I legit just met let some random dude into my house. He didn't explain it and then I broke it down. Like the reason he literally because he would have been some sort of authority. It was new and

novel for me cuz I'm like this is different. No one knocks on the door and then it was just super quick. I like he's on your floor. He's a member of Your tribe. Uh-huh. Like that makes sense. Okay. Yep. Focus authority and tribe emotion. That's so true. And they've even done studies where just holding a clipboard uh will make people more compliant. Wow. And they did this. There's a great one on YouTube and I hope you can put uh or your ed your video editors can put a link in the in the description. But it's

it's where this guy dresses up As a police officer and walks around this open public area and tells people to break the law. He's like, "Can you litter? Can you find something in your pocket and just throw it on the ground?" Uh and he sees this person carrying a shopping bag. He's like, "Yeah, can you switch that bag to your other hand?" And just they put it in their other hand. Can I I need to sample that corn that you've got from the grocery store and he takes a bite of somebody's corn. Uh it's It's

fascinating just how once we perceive authority, this filter in our brain that that I call the security guard in my training. Mhm. Our brain has two things, a security guard and a file clerk. So one of them goes and gets memory. So if I'm if I say roller coaster, your brain just pulled up 10 images of roller coasters from your past, from YouTube videos, whatever. Uh but the security guard In the presence of authority takes a break. So like he's saying like security guard is sitting there like should I let this information in? Let me

be very cautious about what's coming in and all this. And the security guard is like oh there's authority here. I don't I don't I don't need to be hearing it. Um have you seen you familiar with Darren Brown? Oh yeah. Yeah. I think I started watching his Stuff a long time ago and um it's the Have you seen him do the push experiment? He did the same thing. It was on Netflix actually in the space of about an hour could he and he didn't even do it. He had an earpiece in someone's ear and it

was all through authority and compliance and within an hour they got I'm making a number up here but it was it was the majority of maybe 70% of people to kill someone. Yeah. through through peer pressure, tribe, the authority, and just micro compliance. Hey, just do this. And what they were showing was if he could get someone to do something morally a little bit wrong in the beginning. He would keep on it. So, it started with he's like, "Okay, we're getting ready for this dinner. Uh, these ones are the vegan options. These are the meat

ones." He's like, "Oh, we're running out of vegan. Just just put a meat one there." He's like, "Don't worry." He goes, "Oh, but it's vegan." That won't worry. Just put one just put one meat one there. And you got to do it. And what they noticed is every single person that went all the way is they were started to do little things like this and then it was just one more thing, another thing and then someone died and he helped him move the fake body. Have you seen this thing? Yeah. Yeah. It's freaking insane. Unbelievable.

And then they get all the way to the end through nothing but compliance. And I'm like that's how I used to peer pressure my friends to do stupid [ __ ] Just peer pressure. But they it's this is what scares me about the human brain that we could very easily say or do something that probably we wouldn't do if someone really knows how to use our head better than we know how. Yeah. And if you think about that Darren Brown thing, what was what was new to that person throughout the experiment? Everything was brand new.

Novelty that generated a tremendous amount of focus. And focus is that doorway to the authority, tribe, and emotion. So once it's novel, it's brand new. If you think of the Mgrim experiment, they're in a building they've never been in doing an experiment they've never done with a guy they've never met and on and on and on and on. They could go into The novelty of it. And that's one of the things that they completely ignored in the Mgrim experiment. They said it's all about authority. Well, it's all about focus and vibe and because other people

do this and I've done it so far. And it was little by little, the same way Darren Brown did it. little compliance at a time. And that's how cults do indoctrinations. That's how I get confessions in an Interrogation. Uh is that leveled up compliance over time. So, you spent 20 years as a Blackberry. You're a captain on a Navy ship doing crazy secret stuff that you can't even talk about. Um and you can tell me to shut up at any point. Um, how the things you do know, how did you use them? And is there

anything that you can explain or can talk about through your times in your professional career on how you've Leveraged these things to interrogate or get information or persuade or Yeah, I think the with the the things that I teach are all about three things. So, if you look at anyone who's successful, they've mashed these three things. You look at anyone who's failed, they failed at one of these three things. Doesn't matter how much AI comes out. Everybody's talking about the economy going down. AI is going to take over the world. Uh the people who are

Successful have these three things in common. And that's uh observation, which means I can read the room. I can read somebody that I'm talking to. Communication. They know how to communicate and persuade and influence people. They know how to use language well. And then selfmastery. Those three things, that's it. So if you just look at successful people, those are the three things they all have in common. So those are the three things that we Brought forward to train intelligence operatives. Can I get information faster out of a person? And you're talking about getting someone to

deviate. The stuff that we were teaching and the programs that I was developing is all kind of rooted in how can an intelligence officer talk a foreign national into committing treason against their own country in the shortest amount of time. So I meet someone at a bar and then within an hour And a half can I get them to agree to potentially face the death penalty for me? And so that was the the problem that we had. It's like on a two axis chart. So here's like the deviation from their normal behavior and here's the

time. Mhm. So I'm doing this backwards for you. So how far can I get them to deviate from what they would normally do and how long does it take me? And I needed to be no time high Deviation. Yeah. So most people like, "Oh yeah, I could talk somebody to do that if I had them captive and lock it up for 60 days and I can sleep deprivation and all that." Well, we don't have that luxury. Uh, so this started when my friend died in the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in Yemen and he

was one of my best friends. and all these reports came out and if you have a top secret or secret clearance in the military you get these Little one-page news reports about the global politics and stuff and it's called the early bird. So, I'm reading the early bird and I saw like all of these things, intelligence failures, operatives couldn't connect with people on the ground. We didn't we didn't get get good intelligence. We we didn't have good relationships established. So, I thought, well, I'm going to use what I've been learning to enhance all these programs.

And scary enough, the training That intelligence operatives had at that time was like how to win friends and influence people. That's it. Here we use their name. Yeah, it was like firm handshake, make eye contact, use their name, touch them on the shoulder, thanks for coming. That sort of thing. So that's what they had. So they the intelligence agencies were relying on making people that were highly charismatic and highly confident And just pushing them to the top because they didn't have the techniques to add on to that. That was a convoluted answer to your question.

But is it the whole like like I I'm everything we talk about it's just it's just so interesting to think about. Um cuz it's like stuff you hear about you see in movies, you know. It's the same as like when I sit down with Andy um Bamante. I'm like this is the same stuff like on and off camera. I'm like This is crazy. Like you're literally like Tom Gurus. Um, has there been times when you've been on missions or operations where you've genuinely feared for your life? And not in a theoretical thing like this could

go wrong, but an actual we're [ __ ] right now. Many many times. And it the my first time that ever happened, I was 19 years old off the coast of Somalia. I think that's all I can say. But It was we had to turn over a boat of refugees to the Somali government. There is no Yeah. So, it's like these 16-year-olds in a rusted out tugboat and that turned bad really fast. And that was the moment where you kind of get I I can't speak for anybody else in the military, but I think you

get to this point where you're like any day might be maybe the last day. and you kind of get I uh kind of got okay with it where it was just like that's just part of doing this and it's part of just this line of work and many times we've been in that kind of situation where like if if we don't do something drastic right now we're all that would would people not be more fearful to try to attack you guys knowing your US like if if an attack happened Wouldn't it just be bring absolute

[ __ ] chaos to that. I think when you're working intelligence operations, you're not really saying, "Hey, yeah, we call it it's a nonfl flagged operation." So they know it's a nation state or they know that it's somebody from NATO, but they don't know specifically that it might be us because like our if we're doing naval intelligence, especially on in my line Of work, a lot of it is just I'm being very quiet. Um, either maybe grabbing somebody, searching something, or I'm holding up an antenna and letting some 22-year-old MIT graduate in lamely Virginia like

tell me how to turn the antenna and stuff like that. So, it's always like I we should not be seen like we should be forgotten the next day. But when it comes to like the army dudes like Rangers, Green Berets, those dudes are Out there running operations that are far more dangerous in my opinion that are like they're like laying it down like in apartment buildings, the flags right on the shoulder. They're identify themselves immediately. Uh so it's a whole different gamut like a a dude that's running pure spec ops uh army level. Yes. How

do you how do you stay calm? Like I imagine if I'm in a situation like that Or even as and like I think everyone can relate to being in a situation where it's like this is a little bit nervous whether it be their first sale asking a girl out on a date having to fire someone or you know this like I know for one like if I have hard conversations sometimes I was talking about this with Andrew I'm like I'll talk down here and it's harder to I'm like I notice my whole my whole body

starts to as you say uh compose right compose offset Collapse I know it starts to do this. So, how how do you stay calm in situations when you're like, I know I could be if I got caught right now or someone, you know, found out what I was doing or it's gone. How do you how do you stay chill? Uh, there's two two answers to that. And I'm just giving you my opinion. Somebody else may give you something else. But we go through some serious Crazy training and it's the most stressful thing you can imagine.

Most of it's uh a little hush hush, but I'll show you a video after we're done of me going through that. Okay. Uh the second part is you learn that's drilled into your psyche this thing called combat mindset. And the combat mindset is offensive a aggression. Uh, and it's not being violent, but Choosing violence and being better at violence than the other person. So that if if I feel like someone is about to spot us, I'm angry at them for making me kill them. So it it's that's the that's the huge shift in mindset is

there's nothing defensive. Yes. about this about this mindset that they that they teach to where the as as soon as a threat comes in I have aggression. There's nothing like am I Going to die? So on one side it's like am I going to get hurt and the other side is am I willing to destroy this human being? So it's a yes or no. And if it's yes then violence and aggression get turned on. And I know for a fact I'm better at violence. I may not be more violent, but I'm better at violence than

that other person is. So, it's a competence thing of confidence and training. I think it is. And the training that you go through is is unbelievable, especially when you get into that kind of line of work. So, I was at expeditionary warfare and that is just kind of expedited rapid operation kind of a stuff and they put you through some amazing gunfighting schools. One of them is like 30 minutes north of here where I went through gunfighting school. Uh army base That's real close to here. So let's talk about spotting liars. So let's start from

ground zero as if no one even knows. Even though I I think when like you're you you always have a sense like that person's lying. And I think most people who are uneducated this don't know how they know that. But everyone has a feeling, right? They're like there's something off about that person. and you've obviously psych analyze and You've put together this thing over the last 10 or so years. So what are some things we need to look for to spot people who are lying? Uh so there are some indicators that are pretty wellnown and

I'll give you a couple of those but I think it's the biggest mistake I ever made in my life was spending a 10 years learning all of those indicators. built a periodic table of this stuff. Uh which you've seen. I've seen it. And so when it comes to these indicators, those are important. What's really important is being good at detecting change. So the conversation starts normally. Where are you from? What do you do? Some basic information I'm getting out of this person. And then we get to the harder questions. And I'm looking for changes to

their behavior. Are they answering questions the same way that they were a few minutes ago? Are their eyes moving the same way? Are their fingers doing the same thing? Are they breathing the at the same speed? So looking for changes is more important than knowing what behaviors to look for. So if I see a big pile of changes, I can be almost certain that this person is being deceptive without even knowing what I'm really seeing. So getting good at changes is the first and most important thing. Then understanding context and clusters. So context meaning Like,

well, this person uh is crossing their arms. They must be defensive. Well, what if it's 50° outside and they're freezing cold? So there's context that that plays in. So then understanding context and then clusters. I'm going to look for not just one behavior. When somebody says, "Oh, somebody scratched their nose or they touched their face, they're lying." Or they looked away for a minute, they're lying. One behavior never indicates Deception by itself. It never should. You should always see a cluster of behavior. And sometimes someone's lying and those behaviors aren't there. They're just not there.

And that has to go that goes into stakes. Are you good enough to ask questions to raise the stakes? So, if I give you a picture of a duck right now and tell you, convince this person over here that you are looking at a picture of a horse, you're not going to show a Lot of deception indicators. But if I do the exact same thing, can I say if you don't do this, I'm going to put a bullet in your head. You're doing the exact same lie, the exact same situation. Now, the stakes are higher

so that your deception indicators are are increased. So, like one of the ways that we might increase stakes is something as simple as me saying," Morgan, I like you as a person. And I don't want you to get tripped up. So, I want you to think very carefully before you answer this question." You understand? So, now the stakes go up. So, I've I've just pumped up your body language with just a little paragraph there. Yeah. So, then it's going to make it me more sensitive to any sort of deceptive patterns. Absolutely. Pumping up your brain.

Yeah. uh before the question comes. So That and if you're innocent, your brain's not going to get ramped up. Yeah. So if a murder took place and you know you're not the killer, you're going to be like, "Yeah, okay, fine." That question won't cause you any stress. Just it's just like this other question. We're talking about detecting deception. It's not just about behavior. It's about can you ask good questions? And one of the best questions in the World is called a bait question. And this is where, let's say, a crime happened. Let's say some $10,000

was stolen from a grocery store or something. I've got you in here as a suspect. Uh, and you did it. Let's say you did it. And I might say, Morim, is there any reason that you can think of that a video would have showed up from a black and white camera, maybe a a security camera? That showed that you took some money. And if you knew there were no video cameras, you'd say, "No, you'd be comfortable, right?" So then I make it more vague and I say, "My is there any reason that somebody would to

say that they saw your car parked outside that store that evening and you don't know how many people I've talked to." And the only time that you will get nervous is if you were there. True. And you don't and you know that if You're going to commit to lying and I'm about to slam you in the face with evidence, you don't know if I'm about to do that. That's why the bait question is so important. It works with kids. And the second way to do the way to do the bait question is, is there any

reason blah blah blah might have happened? So you never are leading them. You're not saying I have this evidence ever. Hypothetical. Is there any reason Somebody would have told one of our officers or one of our investigators that they saw you parked outside of that house or they saw you at around 9:15 p.m. Um, and so the more vague the better it is. So, how would you use that? You said with kids. So, how would you use that with with say your children in completely different context in like an everyday life? Yeah. Give me a

lie and I'll I'll tell you. Good question. Well, you have kids. What What lies do kids say? Well, the things that I used to say was I gave my parents heart attacks when we were growing up. The amount of times the police came to the door. Um, I don't know. It was just always the it wasn't me. I didn't do it. I wasn't there. Yeah. So, one thing, uh, is there any reason somebody would have seen you or Is there any reason someone would say that you might be there? Uh, is great for kids. The

best one for kids is is called the punishment question. And this is what do you think should happen to the person that did this? And so this has been used uh in my life uh talking to predators and these are people that prey on children and I would say well what do you think should happen to the person that did This? And the answer is always something like well definitely they should apologize to the family. they did need some kind of counseling, something like really low. Yeah. Ridiculous. And they'll they'll say things like, "Well, obviously

that person's sick and they need help and they need some kind of counseling and therapy." Um, and at on my kids, I used this before. So, when I was in the military, I come home in my uniform one Day, like the little camo uniform. I'm walking in and there's little box of chocolate milk, right? It's opened and it's just laying on its side. All this chocolate milk is just We had a white rug like an idiot. It was kids. And my two kids, Charlotte and William, are in there. They're probably five and six somewhere around

there. And I was like, who brought this milk here in the living room? You're not supposed to have milk in here. Just water. And they're like, I Don't know. I looked at my son. I don't know. I'm like, "All right, Charlotte, living room, William Kitchen." Sephora. Yeah. Uh, I went to, uh, Charlotte and I, or no, I went to William first. No, I went to Charlotte first. I said, Charlotte, what should I person that spilled this milk on the floor? She said, "Uh, spankins, no more Xbox, no Electronics, can't go outside, can't play with friends,

grounded." I'm like, "Okay." All right. I go over to William. I said, "William, what should happen to the person that spilled the chocolate milk on the floor?" And he goes, "Uh, no more chocolate milk in the living room." So, and what's funny is like it's funny that kids do this, but adults react the same way to that question cuz it's emotional, right? there be imagine cuz I'm trying to play it in my Head. I'm like what would be happening cuz if I did it I have images of it happening like so I'm visually I'm I'm

playing it out of my head and if I'm focusing on I'm going to feel it. Yeah. And now if you're raising the stakes being like what should happen now I'm visualizing if I get caught it's my punishment it's going to make me right I'm freaking out. Yeah. I'm like oh well what if they do what they say that they're going to do? Yeah. What if I do what if they do what I say? And so that's the the the bait question and the punishment question. Those are really good. That's killer. And really getting to the

truth is when we get down into like the the ways to get a confession out. Yes. So we've suspected that people are lying to us. We've got a few things We've seen. We've asked some questions to raise the stakes and we're seeing it, but it still doesn't mean anything until they confess. So, right. I've even heard, didn't don't you have like a record or something for the fastest confession or something? I swear. Maybe something like that. You did you did in like 20 something minutes or Something? I could be wrong. Yeah. Yeah. So, how how

do we get confessions out of people now? What's up, Dream Nation? Have you ever wondered how far ahead your life would have already been if you hadn't got access to this type of content at a younger age? Look, this is why I need your help. I'm trying to build the number one personal development platform out there to teach you guys the tips, Tricks, and attitude of what it takes to live your dream life and to bring the type of education that we all wish we had in school. This show only grows by word of mouth

and new subscribers. So, it would mean the world to me if you could smash that subscribe button right now. Leave us a fivestar written review or drop a comment below and share this episode with a friend. I would be forever grateful. All right, now let's get back into this episode. Well, if you're ever talking to somebody and you want sensitive information, the less questions you ask, the better. So, I'm assuming that most of your listeners are not interrogators, so they're in conversations. Entrepreneurs. Yeah. So, we're in conversations all the time. So, let's say I give

you a challenge and I say your challen Well, let's say we're standing in a grocery store. We're in the produce section. I Say, Moren, here's your challenge. You need to go over to this woman over there who's an employee at the store. Uh within 60 seconds, you need to find out how much she makes for a living. And you're not allowed to ask any questions. You have 60 seconds. It's going to be tough, right? Uh so using statements makes people like 10x more likely to reveal information. And this was um in a book called uh

Business Confidential. And I think that's what it was. And I the guy's name is John. I can't remember his last name. Um but he's the kind of the grandfather of all of this. But if you imagine, I walked over to that person who's stocking this stuff in the grocery store and I said, "You know what? Can you help me find the baby carrots or oranges or whatever?" And as we're walking together, 15 seconds have elapsed. So now my time is running out and I say, "You know what? I Just read this article that you guys

bumped up to $25 an hour. That's fantastic. Congratulations." And they look at me like, "What? We only make $16 an hour. Everybody does who works in this department." So I got her to correct me. So using statements is a really effective way to do this. I write about it a lot of my books and stuff. There's like 17 types of statements. And this one is called triggering a need to Correct the record. And people respond heavily to that. What would be another in terms of like let's let's raise the stakes a little bit somewhere between

getting the grocery store ladies hourly rate and what you do with people or have done with people in the middle like let's say if we're want to get information of how other people doing business perhaps their strategies or and we're talking to Like a VP of sales in another company a CEO or something where they're like I ain't going to what's the different strategy? So, uh, disbelief is a great one. So, you use an elicitation statement that's what's called a provocative statement first. Like, yeah, I heard you guys are doing X, Y, and Z in

business. And they say, "Yeah, well, we did X this month and X the other month." Like, no, there's no way. No one in this industry makes that much money. And they're going to respond by saying, "What? We actually did. We hired this company. We did that." They said, "God, that had to be the most stressful thing of all time, managing all that stuff." Actually, no, it's pretty easy. we hired this firm or we did this, we did that. So, no one feels like they're being interrogated if they're not being asked questions. So, our brain has

this loophole to where if someone's just using statements, we Don't feel like anyone's being uh intrusive into our information. So, we're way more likely to give up confidential information. And so uh provocative statements are sound like so basically you guys just blank blank and blank or I heard that or I read an article that or somebody told me that you guys are doing X or if I'm using a provocative statement and then getting you to correct the record, I would say, you know what, I heard Somebody just told me you guys are moving your whole

headquarters to Singapore in July. They said, no, it's actually September. We're going to be moving this fall. So always remember that. And then when it comes to getting confessions, we can jump into that now if you want to. Yeah. Yeah. What's the thing? Yeah. You lead the way. Okay. So, when it comes to getting a confession, uh being non-confrontational is very Important. And it's never I have never behaved in my lifetime the way that you see these interrogators behave on television on like the the legal TV shows and stuff. It's intense. Yeah. It's very intense.

Angry and confrontational. So, you want to be non-confrontational. And the ways to get a confession is just remember these four words. Socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project. Socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project. Socialize. You're saying, "Give me a crime, and I'll I'll tell you how the confession would work." Like one I've done. Um, let's say let's say someone's committed murder. Okay. Okay. Um, let's say they murdered Sally who works at the She's the babysitter. Okay. That that person's babysitter and it's a Man. Sure. Okay. So, socialize. You know what, man? I think once all this comes out,

people are going to understand why he did this. And I think it makes sense. Rationalize. She's been a [ __ ] to you since day one. And I don't know if you found her stealing money from you or she was threatening you. She may have even had a weapon. And that would make absolute sense that you took the action that you Did. What's the next one? Socialize, minimize, project. Minimize, project. And you know what? With all this [ __ ] on TV and the stuff that's going on in your life, I don't think this is

your fault at all. I think you made a mistake. And I think that this is something that happens as a result of how you've lived and what you've been exposed to over and over. They just put violence on TV all the time. And I don't think it's your fault. She was egging you on and egging you on and egging you on into this. And it was just this huge avalanche of bitchiness and screaming at you and probably I don't know for a fact, but I'm willing to bet she's probably abusive towards you. What's the final

one? Project. Now, socialize, rationalize, minimize, minimize, and project. So, we just did Projection. So, minimizing would be And you know, Morgan, I I've talked to people all the time who do bad things, and this is not a huge deal. I've seen a thousand times worse, and those people who might have done way worse things got through this. This is something we can absolutely get over. This is not a big deal. So that's kind of how that whole monologue would work. And the skill comes into when you try to interrupt me. So the skill once I'm

saying like I can understand why you did this. That's like in your head you're going to like try to object a little bit, right? Yeah. Uh so is that what you're looking for? If I was to like cut in and be like no. Is that a sign of I didn't do it or is No, it's neither one of them. Okay. It's depend dependent on the context. But so we'll do a role play here. Um let's say there's $10,000 missing. Mhm. And I'll say something like, and you can interrupt me just one time anywhere in here,

and I'll show you what that might look like, but I'll start the monologue now. Okay. So, Morgan, we've got this 10,000 that went missing, and I'm just glad it's something so tiny because it's they're They're only worried about 100K or more based on their insurance and stuff like that. So, this is absolutely not. That's good. So, it doesn't even worry anyway. I know that's very important to you and I promise we're going to get to that. I promise you. So, I know your aunt was sick and I know she had medical bills that needed to

be paid and I'm willing to bet that you you did this for the same reason that I wanted to come down. You think I did it? We're going to get to your side of the story. I promise you. I didn't do it. I think you should be you should be talking to the people out there. I do think you're a good person and I think that you did this because you're a good person and I don't think that you're like these people say that you are. That's why I wanted to come down here and talk

to You. I'm supposed to have the day off today and I think that once people hear why this happened, that you did this for good reasons and that you're trying to be a good person that they're going to understand. And I got to tell you that if I walk out that door, there is no help. No one's coming in after me. And this is our last chance to get this on record. And this is not a big deal. People get through this every day. I deal with crazy stuff all the time. And I don't think

you're a bad person. You You're wasting your time. You're wasting your time here. Reasons. That's what a Mono would say. Like I'm nervous. I'm I'm literally like, "Fuck, did I steal the money?" Yeah. I can even feel my my body my my foot start to tap just then. I don't know if you noticed. Yeah. But I'm like cuz I'm paying attention to everything I'm wanting to do. I'm like, I'm uncomfortable. Well, the way it But it probably if I did it, it would have been 10 times more. Yeah. So, I can feel the uncomfortableness. If

you're a good interrogator, you could you could kind of riff on that for like half an hour. That's insane. And just go into all the ways and the reasons that this might have been acceptable. And even getting in like there's interrogators out there that you have to deal with really nasty people and they've got to say things that they don't mean. Like I think that she probably grabbed your hand and pushed it under under her skirt and I don't think I don't think you intended that but I think she probably egged you on and like

even put your hand Up there. And that's that's all that stuff in a big burrito. All that socialize, minimize, rationalize, project. And that's a lot of um there's even like a lot of hypnotic stuff in there as well. It's like mind readading and cause and effect. And actually this is why it's also I think I think I was reading the book Persuasion. I'm sure you've read Persuasion. Yeah. And one of the things he said there, he's like if for whatever reason you ever do find yourself being interviewed by a police officer or a detective, say

I'm not talking to anyone without a lawyer. Um even if you didn't do it because they have Especially if you didn't do it. Yeah. because they have very good ways of getting you to say things or Yeah. And this is one tiny example of me making a fake scenario with doing no I already feel like I stole the money. Yeah, it's very powerful. And I would say like especially if you didn't do it, you should have an attorney there. M and the techniques, especially if there is a law enforcement officer in the room, you're locked

up, you haven't eaten in a while, it makes you about five times more suggestible if you haven't eaten food. And they call this interrogative Suggestability. And this factor is called a glucose deficit. So if your body is in a glucose deficit, you're way more likely to falsely confess to a crime or to confess to a crime that you did. So, why would somebody falsely confess? Because I' i've seen lots of, you know, my my girlfriend, I think, a lot of females, they love to watch these documentaries of murder and true crime, and she she studied

law, so she loves to like psych Analyze the the person who did it. Like, why? You know, and we've watched tapes of people literally and back in the day when cops were a lot more corrupt, I guess, and getting confessions on people that they didn't actually commit the crime and but they still confessed. Y what would make somebody confess to something they didn't do? It's the same thing that would make them Shock another person to death. It's the same thing that would make a totally rational person join a cult. So in the interrogation room, I

as an interrogator, I'm targeting focus. I'm leveraging authority. I'm leveraging the tribe and I'm completely layering down your emotions. And I'm I'm controlling your emotions with language and movement. So it's the same exact things that that make these crazy psychological Experiments work. We're just weaponizing it. you're isolated uh and you're captive and a lot changes in psychology when you're captive. There's a guy that's on the behavior panel with me. His name is Greg Hartley. He taught the Army Resistance to Interrogation School for a long time and would actually capture Americans and we all have to

go through this. It's called SEIR. you have to get interrogated to get captured and put into a dog kennel And all go through all kinds of crazy stuff. And he taught this school and he teaches that that's the way like the that your psychology absolutely shifts the moment you become a captive and in that environment unless somebody's extremely familiar with it. So that's why you see some guy that did time before like he's he did four or five years in jail and then he gets he does another crime they call him into the interrogation room

try To get him to confess doesn't work. He's comfortable. He's familiar in the environment which makes the novelty disappear. So the novelty the newness of the situation isn't there. How would you crack someone like that? Walk on the beach. It's very it's very tough. So typically the way that you crack somebody like that is ego up and then ego down. So I'm going to pump the ego and then destroy It and then I'm going to make him feel proud of something and then pride down. And this is from also from Greg Arley, but it's I

think it's from interrogation training in general. And how how many times can I get you up and then back down again? And like in the uh what's it like the pickup artist community they talk about this and in the hypnosis community in psychotherapy they talk about oh yeah This is fractionation fractionation they're kind of going up and down makes you way way more vulnerable. So the more I can get you to go up and down the more vulnerable I can get you. Now look at what social media does when you're scrolling down your feed. The

algorithms are programmed to fractionate your brain to make you more suggestible. How are they fractionating through Social media? Like cuz I in my opinion I think it's all dopamine. I guess you if you get like a sad one it's a bit of oxytocin and so is that what you're saying like different chemicals like that? Yep. Up and then down. So yeah anything up and down if I can get anger or whatever. So like that's why you'll see like on most people's feed it'll be different content. It'll see heartwarming rescued baby raccoon and as A pet

and it's really heartwarming and stuff. And the next one is uh this war that's going on. The Ukraine just did this against Russia. Russia's doing this now. Next one is like baby panda, baby animal, baby animal. Israel, Gaza Strip, dead bodies, baby animal. So, and you it's every feed. And I've checked if like if you pull your Instagram out right now, we're filming on your phone. But if if we looked through anybody's Instagram right now, It's the exact same thing. It's up and down and up and down. Yeah. It is the most somebody says, "Well,

that didn't affect me." If you think that, you're an idiot. I'm maybe the number one brainwasher guy in the world right now. And I am terrified of social media. I'm terrified. I have an app limit of 60 seconds on mine and when you see me posting on social media that's a social Media manager. Uh I'm I just want to issue that dire warning like if you've got kids it's a lot more dangerous than you think. The human brain is no match for a1 trillion dollar computer. So, you're suggesting that they're using fractionation to just have

more control and I guess teach and program what they want to put in more control and the app gets there's Two things that happen. The app gets more sticky. So, you're more likely to spend more time on the app. The second thing is you're more likely to buy the products that are being sold and make their uh ad revenue and all that kind of stuff is how they generate income. So, back back to the getting confessions, right? What if what if you got a confession out of somebody and you were wrong? Like, what if you

were so good at all this and You got them to confess? Like, what if what then? And they didn't do it. Yeah, that's a whole entire It's going to be really difficult to get a false confession without following a few steps to do it. And in my interrogation course, I have five or seven slides that we go through called and the literal title is how to obtain a false confession. And I teach you every single step in how To manufacture a false confession. So that when anybody ever comes back on me and say, "Oh, you

taught them this and they didn't know it would lead to a false confession." Absolutely not. Not only did you learn this technique and know that it did a false confession, you did it in this room to this person. And here are the behavioral indicators of how to spot like here's a person that's about to falsely confess. Here are the things that um that show you a Person's falsely confessed to a crime. You should be able to identify that. Especially people in law enforcement, they should be able to within 45 seconds you should be able to

see a false confession coming out. One thing you've taught me is you've said that everyone's wearing a mask and everyone is actually suffering. Yeah. Can you explain this a little bit? Because cuz I I teach I guess like some Of our I run all personal development programs back home and a big thing is actually helping people remove all their masks and become more authentic and just be an authentic person. And um and then you're like everyone's wearing masks like [ __ ] I'd like to think that uh you know I've got pretty good at removing

mine. So can you explain this a little bit? We have uh so we all have a persona the way that we come across we to the world And we have that which is a metaphor the mask is a metaphor for that it's like I I want to be perceived a certain way and that's a mask and typically the mask is just like I want to be perceived this exact way and most of the time 80% of the time a mask is made up of the opposite some displaying the opposite of what I'm most ashamed of.

So, I see somebody that's secretly ashamed of Feeling gay, they become like this anti- gay homophobic person. So, their their mask is made up of the opposite of their shame and insecurities. You're right. So, somebody who's like over-the-top alpha, like not alpha, but like loud, aggressive, posturing, that kind of person is covering up internal shame of feeling weak, vulnerable, being worried about being hurt. So, when you're able, if you get good at behavior profiling, if you spot a Person's mask, you're going to spot more hidden fears and insecurities than their best friends know about them.

So getting good at spotting masks is the first thing that I teach people in my books and courses because you sometimes I want to sell if I'm a car salesman I might want to sell that car to your mats. Yeah. And if I'm selling a different type of product I want might want to sell to the Person behind it cuz cuz that's what they're insecure about, right? They want to fix that. Otherwise the mask would be to their ego, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm thinking back I what would be this one on me then?

I growing up so how I've identified this to me is growing up I'd always be the joker. Like my report Cards at school was always Morgan has a lot of potential. He's always getting distracted. He's always the class clown getting kicked out. So I would always have the mask of being the joker. I'd always be cracking jokes and being the funny one. And but through understanding myself a lot more I understand it's actually like that's my stress response mechanism. So when I teach through leadership there's different I guess you can call a mask cuz like

self-defeating Behaviors and my one is the joker. So when co happened and there was all this uncertainty I was like I could have created like a prank page Instagram. I was just like that was the funny one. I was like, "This is hilarious." Like, "Yeah, we might all die." Like, you know, I was just And I notic in myself, I'm like, "Wow, I'm so unsure right now. I'm stressing." So, my response is I'm going to crack a joke, be funny. I'm the funny one all the time. So, what do you Think? So, my understanding of

that is that's why I do it cuz I'm like, "Oh, I'm a little bit uncomfortable here." So, I'll be the funny guy. So, that would be a mask, right? So, what do you think is behind that? That would be an insecurity about getting reactions out of people and connecting with people. So typically when you see an exaggerated humor is a lack of intimacy. Like I can't genuinely connect but I can make them laugh and I can get an emo I Can pull an emotion out without connecting with That's [ __ ] true. So what do

you do about that? Because it's funny because lately I have been like like I I can connect very well with people but then yeah sometimes on like a super deep level I'm more like yeah I think that's interesting the way to get rid of most of our masks is increasing Our comfort with receiving social injury. Am I willing to be socially injured by doing this? Give me an example. So, I'm let's say I'm the the alpha guy, right? And I want to get rid of that mask. Is I need to understand what am I really

ashamed of and am I willing to be injured for it? Am I willing to put it out there and be injured for it? So, like go and get humiliated. No. No. Am I willing to uh actually go out in a conversation and actually just say, "Man, I'm just I'm terrified that, you know, somebody's going to hurt me." Be vulnerable. Yeah. I'm I'm doing the opposite of what my mask is. Yeah. And people are like, "Whoa, I can't do that. I can't do what I'm insecure About. I can't just be open about all these insecurities." People

are starving for that kind of behavior right now. That's why Joe Rogan has 10 times the viewers at CNN. So like we know like fake versus real. We're starving for real stuff. There's fake Instagram, fake people on social media. There's so much fake [ __ ] everywhere that we want. Like please give me one thing that has a feeling of being real To it. So I think now is the best time ever to start letting go of social mask, letting go of insecurities and especially shame and stuff like that. Be open to social injury. So,

we were talking before we recorded. I looked at all your KL Jung books. I didn't even know the guy has so many books and uh I asked you like what's the best thing you've learned from him. You said collective consciousness. And one Of the other things I know like Kyong's really known for is shadows, integrating shadows. Would this be another way of sort of saying that? Like cuz once you sort of bring the thing that's unaware, what what's he say? Once you make the unconscious conscious Yeah. it's it's no longer a problem or something anymore.

So, it's sort of like his whole thing was becoming aware of the things that we were hiding and Bringing them to light. So, I can see why bringing that out in someone would make it sort of dissolve cuz now they're more aware of it. Um, is that what you've kind of found? Yeah. Like with the shadow and just bringing anything everything decays in the sunlight. So just kind of bringing all that stuff that's hiding in the dark, pulling it all out and just putting it out in the light where you Can see it like clear

as dead. And one of the things I do with my clients is when they have these like limiting beliefs is a a phrase that gets thrown around, but it's it's a belief like uh if I'm not funny, no one's going to enjoy my company, right? Would be maybe one of the limiting beliefs that that you might have had. So, I take a a client's limiting beliefs and make them ridiculous. Like, everyone's going to hate me if I don't make them laugh, Which is stupid. Your brain automatically rejects that, right? So, then I take that phrase

and I put it on like a beautiful wallpaper and I make the clients put set it as their desktop on their computer, stab him stare and and fully reject that limiting belief or print it out, make it into a poster. So, it looks like a motivational poster, but it's your stupid ridiculous limiting belief right in your face. Uh, and it's in the sunlight so much That your brain starts rejecting it. You don't have to set up like there's no sevenstep goal setting plan. Just put it right right up there. Your brain's automatically going to start

rejecting it because it's bizarre and and ridiculous. I'm very curious to talk about and I don't know if you want to talk about this. I forgot to even ask you, so, but you made a video about it, so I'm assuming you're okay. um to talk about What's happening with your brain at the moment. Yeah. And because you're a neuroscientist as well and we're talking about um the blue dye you've been taking. So can you give a little bit of context of what is happening with your brain? What have you noticed and what are some things

you're doing from a neuroscience level that everyone can be doing to Really improve their neur I can't even think of the word neurons neuro my brain's going not much sleep last night but yeah how we can sort of improve our cognitive function and uh yeah make our neurology super healthy yes uh so I uh studied neuroscience medical neuroscience and then neuroindocrinology as postgraduate uh certifications and stuff and I found Out I had epilepsy four years ago probably and it was temporal lobe epilepsy so it hits you right in the hippocampus where our memories are. Oh

and it is like soul shaking uh when you have a seizure your body doesn't shake you're not not doing all the crazy stuff you see on TV like but you just like your head falls and you're gone. My seizures were about 60 seconds long. Uh, And they felt like around 6 to nine months of time inside of that 60 seconds. It's it's a it's a horror movie. What are you thinking? Like, are you seeing things, images? You're you're not really conscious of yourself being present. You're kind of dreaming like 50 dreams all at one time

that are bizarre and weird and and almost all of them are mocking you. Uh it's bizarre. And then the moment you come out of the seizure, it takes four or five days because all those dreams are now stored in where my normal memories are in the same file cabinets in the same storage area. So it's days and days of having to kind of repair that and mentally think like I would have times like my dog would come here into my office and I would look at my dog and think, is my dog real? Is is

this real? like, is she real? Uh, And then taking my wife into labor and delivery. We have a six-month old baby now. Uh, she was born on Christmas Eve and we drove to the hospital. I helped her out of the passenger seat, walked her all the way into the delivery ward. I had no idea who she was. No idea. And I just knew like I'm driving her to a hospital. She's pregnant. if I just play along maybe, you know, it's I'm going to pop back into reality. And it it's terrifying. And then uh about 6

months ago, right after that, I started taking this stuff called methylene blue and that reversed my entire life. And really, I'm above 100% now. I'm better than I was before. Is this like are you tracking this somehow or is this just how you feel? feel and think. I'm tracking it with blood pressure, heart rate variability, okay, pulse Oxygen levels, cognitive tests on a on a weekly basis. Not every day, but I'm tracking this meticulously. And methylene blue I've given to my family. My grandmother's on it. My mom is on it. U my daughter's taking it.

What have you noticed with your grandmother? I'd be curious on that. someone who's older saved her life and so many people uh can benefit from it. It's not just Neurology. How do you get it? If you want to go into the science of methylene blue, we can. I'd be curious on it. Yeah. Cuz like has there been cuz you told me like it's blue dye. I'm like if you're telling me it's good. I'm like okay but blue dye. Yeah. Let me give you the sales pitch. Yeah. So yeah, they came out with methylene blue in

the 1890s and this is when textile mills were being built and they had these huge looms and we needed to dye lots of fabric all all at one time. So they came out this methylene blue and the doctor who discovered it uh started using it to stain bacteria and stuff on microscope slides and this is 1890. So then they starts injecting a rat with it and then you do an autopsy on the rat and every single neuron in this rat was Bright blue. It soaked up the blue dot and they're like they couldn't figure this

out. Then they started giving it to animals and they figured out this is in the 1900s 1901. This guy won a Nobel Prize for this really. And the first time in human history the words magic bullet were ever used was the doctor describing methylene blue. They figured out that it would treat viruses and bacterial infections, urinary tract infections, all kinds of Stuff going wrong in the body could be treated with methylene. So So it's a it's a healing it's a healing thing. Yeah. I could poison you right now with cyanide and let it sit in

your body and infiltrate every one of your organs and then give you methylene blue and be okay. Yeah. And in how long? Because doesn't cyanide kill you fast. It's pretty quick. And so how long does this [ __ ] get to work? It's pretty fast. So it's introvenous. It's it's fast. So every every emergency room in at least in America carries methylene blue for that exact uh methyl globin if they've been poisoned. Yeah. Or or if someone like a kid at a Baseball game eats like 10 hot dogs in a row, which is so high

in nitrites that the the overconentration in nitrites now starts acting like uh poison. And the kid turns blue. And this dad's looking at his son's like, "My little kid's blue. He's six years old. His whole body's blue. He's not getting any oxygen. Takes him to the hospital. Boom. They give him methylene blue and he's good to go." So how much are you taking? Take it Daily. Yeah. Uh the dosage I do uh around two milligrams per kilogram of body. How do you how do you take it? They they make different ones. The one I take

is from this company called Midozen. Uh this guy named Dr. John Laurance runs the company and he's now a friend of mine. Um and I take it. It's kind of the consistency of like a Starburst. It's like it's a sense that you eat it. You don't want to eat it. It's dye. It's like it's industrial grade dye. So if it sits on your tongue for longer than like 3 to seconds, your mouth is going to be blue. So how do you think it? Just quickly swallow or Yeah. Put it in there and and take it

down really quick and it turns your urine bright and it's strong enough that your toilet bowls will be stained in your house. I Don't know if you went to the bathroom in here yet in my bathroom if you saw that it was blue. Uh yeah, that's methylene. So you'll see it. Holy dilly. So let me tell you the the science side of methylene blue. So methylene blue has an affinity or is attracted to mitochondria which is the the little energy thing of our cells. We have the most amount of mitochondria in our nervous system. So

our neurons and all That have the most mitochondria. We have a a lot of mitochondria. Just mitochondria in your body make up around 6% of your body weight. That's how much mitochondria we have. So methylene blue has an affinity for mitochondria. So it works. It gets rid of things in your body called reactive oxygen species. So this is an oxygen molecule that should have two hydrogen on it and become water. So your body is your body's job is I've got something Coming in. I'm going to convert that to water and get rid of it. So

if it's got extra hydrogen or one less hydrogen on it, your body can't process it. So that's called a free radical. People have said that a lot. So free radical is a reactive oxygen species. So methylene blue goes in and starts getting into this and correcting all of these oxygen molecules and getting them to turning them into water. And free Radicals is the root of like everything. All all the illnesses that you could probably name off if I gave you three hours to name off illnesses, it would have something to do with reactive oxygen species.

So methylene blue gets rid of reactive oxygen species but from that process it acts as a recipient of an electron and then it can receive multiple electrons but then it goes into these little Mitochondria and acts as an electron donor and donates extra electrons to mitochondria which helps all of your cells all of your healthy cells in your body start producing more ATP adenosine triphosphate which is energy. So everything healthy throughout your entire body and brain is now has more energy and is healthier and has less reactive oxygen species to deal with. There are a

thousand benefits. There's even a report that came out I don't know Nine months ago. Uh there's there's over a hundred now. But there's reports that say methleene blue will treat COVID and stop stop COVID. Not like once you get it you take it. It will stop CO. M uh and this these are open research. Now, of course, I'm not giving anybody medical advice. Uh I'm not a doctor, but uh it's very well researched and it's one of the most life-changing things that I've ever done in my entire life is taking methylene blue. Wow. And it's

really fun if it's snowing outside. You can go outside and make blue snow. Ah so when when I when I look at all injuries or um not so much injuries but pain disease I also I always like to look at it from you know science but then also like a metaphysical thing as well from like doing or NLP and quantum healing and stuff like that. I'm curious To know if you've looked at or if you believed in that side or if you looked outside when it came to that specifically because when I first heard about

that I'm like I wonder what would cause epilepsy like what emotional I'm like do you think it's any sort of like suppressed emotion unconsciously like you've probably done some gnarly [ __ ] in your life. Um one of my other there's a medical name for that. It's called a conversion disorder. Okay. So when something happens in our life and then it manifests itself in our bodies as some kind of physical disease, you could see this with uh a kid goes into the he's 19 goes into the doctor's office and his hand is like permanently curled

up into this little fist ball. And so they say, "Oh, he needs to go see a neurologist." And the neurologist said, "Well, we can't figure out the signals are mis processing. Maybe he's got Parkinson's myia gravis or all these Weird things." things, they start kind of rattling off and they found out, this is just like since I think the 1930s, that this kid's hand just did this because he watched his dad abuse his mom for 10 years and never could do anything about it and he's still suppressing all this stuff and his hand just started

curling up. So, we can manifest physical illness all the that's proven science. Um, and you can't study neuroscience Without hearing quantum stuff. They'll always talk about you can't understand neuroscience without quantum theory being heavily involved and every other paragraph in every neurology textbook in the world is like as far as we know or as we think or the leading theory is. We don't even know where memories are stored. Yeah. We have no idea. Uh so it's funny that like people around Like I'm a neuroscientist. I'm an expert in something that we don't even understand one

tenth of a percent of. We have no real clue how everything works. So it's when it comes to all of this healing stuff. I if you go back to the methylene blue for one second. Methylene blue is blue because it absorbs red and it reflects blue. That's what makes anything blue, right? So if you are in methylene blue and then you're doing red light therapy, Methylene blue converts your mitochondria. And I think I I think I have this right. Converts the mitochondria to also run on photons. And a good red light machine, I don't know

if you saw mine downstairs when we were using it. Yeah. A good red light therapy machine can penetrate up to 4 in. And if mephylene blue is in your system, it's like a thousandx return on your Investment because it all that blue soaks that red up completely. Yeah. So the reason I asked is cuz I have a friend back in Australia and he's had two well three strokes and last time I interviewed him I'm like cuz he's he's a big big performance coach studied you know everything forever and like stroke that's the manifestation of anger

he's like yes anger right so it's like that emotion so I understand it is like Conflict will create cancer or like no it will but you know what I mean like if I ever got cancer first thing I've been doing is Where's conflict? Yeah. And I'm just wondering if have you looked on that side of things when it comes to your epilepsy? Could uh but most most times if somebody's got epilepsy, you can draw it back to a physiological okay or a genetic predisposition. So I have a genetic predisposition for epilepsy. And then I've gotten

lots and lots of copious head injuries in the military from explosions and all kinds of crazy stuff. Uh so it's definitely a result of some kind of physical trauma and scarring or or what we call like just some kind of tissue in the brain receiving uh scarring and a lesion on a certain part of your brain. Mhm. And that tends to uh that can sometimes Develop into something called messial temporal sclerosis where the scara or scar tissue is kind of spreading. So your cell dies, a neuron dies, it releases something into the ether around it

that tells the other neurons that they might also consider dying. Uh so it's kind of a spreading uh process where you kind of lose it all. And methylene blue has so far I think reversed like not just stopped the symptoms but it's turned the it's Rotating the clock backwards for me. I'm keen to check it out. It's incredible. Paint some blue. Um and you can post a photo of my protocol that I follow. Yeah. Yeah. I'll share that. Um whatever links and stuff you got, we can drop everything below as well. Um, to kind of

wrap this up, like like I said to you before, I'm like, I could I'll talk to You as I'll talk to you until you kick me out of your home. Um, but when it comes to detecting lies, getting confessions, um, influencing people, selling, and really just being the person who controls the conversation, the communication, and getting what they want. What's the one thing I haven't asked that people need to know to be the best they can at that skill? You need to be off camera the same way You want people to see you. When nobody's

looking, are you still that same person? So like if you put hidden cameras in my home, am I still disciplined? Do I still practice the stuff that I preach? if you sat down and interviewed my wife for four hours and trying to interrogate her to figure out am I the same person on camera that I am off camera because everybody's been had that experience of like I'm going to a fancy dinner and I'm Going to put on my really really nice clothes but I've got like a 7 foot pile of laundry my sinks full of

freaking dishes and all that kind of [ __ ] like your house looks like [ __ ] Yeah. And then you go to this party and there's a secret part of our brain, all of our brains, that's dedicated to remembering that I am not who I'm presenting myself. In congruence. Yeah. And it's not the inongruence that Other people are seeing per se. It's what in congruence that other people are feeling. They're feeling your internal inongruence. So if I speak to you from a place of inongruence, I'm speaking to a place of inongruence in you. And

then the result is you're like, "Wow, Chase had great body language. She read all those articles on how to look confident and how to have the symptoms of confidence. Here's how confident people act, but something's off. Like something Was off about that conversation. So that's the number one thing is am I living with congruence? If I'm trying to present myself as a not like a rich or anything like that, but am I just like am I living like I'm I going to a job interview? Do I want to look disciplined? Well, you better be. And

now is the time to start. So like if you haven't started now, this is the time. Like I need to be disciplined now. I need to start living off camera like oh I'm a leader when I go to work. Leader shouldn't be something you do. It's something you are. So I'm a am I a leader at home? Am I waking up when I'm saying I'm waking up? Am I waking up? Am I doing all the things off camera when no one's looking? Because that changes who I am when I'm on camera. I love that. I

a mentor once said to me um it was it was quite similar stuff where he said because I was doing all the things and then when I was not on I'd be somewhat different not like bad but just not I would more party or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, "Your self-esteem comes down to your level of self-esteem comes down to who you are when you're by yourself and the things you do when no one's watching cuz you're always watching and I'm like, "Fuck." And that changed the game for me. It changed a lot because it's

like that Last scene in 8 Mile. I don't know if you've seen it or watch it, but it pretty much is like the rap battle and the last scene is he goes first. This is Eminem. and he goes first and he literally destroys himself. He says, "Here's all the bad things about me. Here's like he's just saying all this shit." He's like, "Now, come on. Now you go tell them something that they don't know about me." And he destroyed him. He's like, "Well, [ __ ] How do you beat That?" It's like completely owning be

like, "This is I know exactly who I am. I'm not trying to be anyone else. I'm authentic." Yeah. And it's like, and when I started doing that, I started living completely differently. So, I'm like, there's not one thing you could say to me publicly that would be like, can't believe someone knows that. I'm like, "Oh, I don't give a fuck." It's like, "Yeah, totally agree." Yeah. And that's that's what Eminem did. He like he injured himself socially. Nobody else could do that. Yeah, man. This has been amazing. Um, where can everybody find you on social

media? You've got massive YouTube channels. Um, so tell everybody where they can find you, get access to all the incredible stuff you teach and how they can even work with you. Yeah, if you Want to follow the behavior panel on YouTube, that's the best place to go for learning people reading, you can just type my name into Google or you could just go to my name, chase.com. I love it. All right, Chase, I ask everyone a question to wrap it up. And the question is, if you were to go back to your 18-year-old self and

give him 30 seconds of advice, what would it be? Practice calm enjoyment. When you have the temptation to hit the fast forward Button on little things that you're doing and common everyday things like mowing the lawn, washing dishes, those are the moments that determine who you become as an