ENTREVISTANDO RICHARD BANDLER | PODCAST PNL #70 - SAM JOLEN

[Music] [Music] Jing say everyone welcome to the podcast NLP and today I'm really really honored because we got a very very special guest we got the co-creator of the NLP Dr Richard bendler thank you Richard to be here with us it's my pleasure oh it is definitely my pleasure I I have to say that I never in my best dreams get in mind that someday I will be here talk Talking with you in a podcast or something like that this is something that just happens in this country and this is something that just can happen

because back there I use NP in my own life so I have been long years in your seminars and I always heard people say oh thank you Richard thank you you create this you create that and this changed my life and here I want to say that I got the [ __ ] same you create something that really really changed my Life and I'm is here because someday you got one amazing idea and you use your brain use your intelligence to create this so I'm honored to be here yeah it wasn't exactly one day though

okay okay it was a whole bunch of days and a whole whole bunch of hard work and that's the thing because people sometimes they think this is like magic it is like something very energetic spiritual but you always teach us that's just use your intelligence so when like Very uh holistic people just waiting for some kind of Miracle comes what do you usually say to then well you can wait or you can do and to me I'm a doer that you know it started out with Virginia when you know person that owned the property that

I lived in when I was in college uh was Virginia's publisher and I didn't nice that's nice yeah well it was just Earth coincidence control center at work and uh he had Virginia came to stay in this Prop there was more than one house on the property and and he told me Virginia wasn't a country girl and she might need help starting a fire and stuff like that and explained to me that she was this very famous psychotherapist and I'm sitting down the end of my driveway you know working on my car because you know

it broke all the time you know that's why what happens when you're in college how old was you was at the time probably 19 years old Years something like that and uh Virginia comes walking up the driveway in a daylow green dress and 6inch high heels okay you know this is this is a a a sloggy dirt road right and comes up and just starts talking to me and she was fascinating and you know I I admit the the guy guy who owned the house was a psychiatrist and people and read a lot of books

on psychology and and I literally asked her the question I said well you know what exactly do you do That other people don't and she she said well I'm going to go this weekend and teach a class why don't if you'll drive me because she said I don't like to drive cars and so I took her took her in my Chevy Malibu you know but once I got it back together put the top down and drove her four hours up to Reno to this big seminar and while she's teaching and she worked with the family

all the people around me kept saying she's so intuitive now I'm a mathematician and a Logician I done a lot of symbolic logic I understand what that means what that meant is we don't have to learn it I got it and yet she was so methodical in what she did I could pretty much predict what she was going to say next you know every time I watch Virginia or listen to tap of her you know she was very systematic in the way she used language very systematic in the things she did so I started writing

algorithms for it and trying to explain to the people that Admired her that the fact that that's cool how how many times was you watching her before you oh this is good this is there's a pattern actually just a couple of times she didn't have a lot of variability she had she she was very ten acious but she she she understood when she put people in a family how the system worked and that the person who was quote the identified patient wasn't where you made the change you changed Somebody else in the system and then

the patient could change I got it and you know and she she was as much as she didn't admit it she was an extremely good hypnotist and I didn't realize that until I started doing hypnosis and realized that you know she was inducing States you know she always acted like she was Finding parts of people that they didn't know about but I don't think they were actually there till Virginia Stuck them in and and realizing that you know that she would take the most rigid unpleasant uptight guy father in a family and she'd have them

in tears in a matter of minutes whoow you know she would talk to the mother and talk to things and then she would she she even told me ahead of time she said this girl's epileptic you know she's a teenager she's the identified patient she runs away from home you know she has temper tantrums and you know they you Know they put her in a mental hospital to straighten her out and she just got more violent and you know blah blah blah and then she goes and in my purse she goes there's a leather strap

and I went leather strap you know I guess I was thinking different than she was and she had a little piece of leather and she said when the girl she goes I'm going to talk to the Father the girl's going to have an epileptic seizure and I want to come on the stage and put this between Her teeth so she doesn't bite her tongue and this was before anything start we're 100 miles from the city whoa wellow that's something yeah this is why this is why people say oh [ __ ] God this gift or

something like that well she had the gift of understanding how things worked in systems of families right I mean when and she didn't realize that part she knew she was going to talk to the father and it would set off the daughter But she believed what she was saying about him was true because she he he was very uptight rigid guy and she turns around and she goes she goes when I look at you she said I can tell how frightened you are in fact I can see tears forming in your eyes as you think

about the danger you know that your daughter is going to be facing running away running with the wrong crowd and how much it scares you and this guy just bursts into tears the girl starts Vibrating falls on the floor wow and you know everybody goes oo and I went wow this was totally totally hypnosis yeah yeah very very very cool and you know I saw her do a lot of things that were like that over the years and Virginia had a very likable demeanor Milton Ericson not so much you know but it was funny I

showed Virginia a hypnotic induction that Milton did and a centering exercise that she did and for the first five minutes they're almost Word for word identical oh that's that's I mean literally Virginia goes you know you're sitting there breathing in and out Mill goes you're sitting there breathing in and out he they don't know each other oh they know each other they don't each other oh they don't like okay Virginia met Milton and remember Virginia processes everything to her feelings Milton creeped her out you know she when she found out I was meetting Milton she

Went you don't want to meet him he's evil and I went I said I don't care if he's evil I'm not afraid of evil you know I said I just want to know how to do what he can do and that's it I want his skills I don't want his personality I don't want to get polio I don't want any of its bad stuff I just want to know how he got so good at doing this because I want to be able to do the same things and when I showed Virginia this film and you

know and he goes you're not like any Person in the world your fingerprints are completely unique to you and no one else and say say goes back and forth like that in Virginia goes she go she looked at me and she goes do you think maybe I'm doing hypnosis and I said yeah and I said but you're the only one that doesn't need to understand things she read accessing cues people's eyes would go up she'd switch predicates automatically but she didn't know it consciously she even told me one day she Goes I asked those questions

you ask people like what color your mother's eyes are and she goes and but I didn't see my eyes move and I said see your eyes move and she goes well I was looking in the mirror and I said well when you looked up you weren't looking in the mirror but she was the only one that didn't need to know because she had the intuitions my job was to map the intuitions to get other people to do the kinds of things that she did so rather Than just go it's intuitive they understood that magical Behavior

has structure and therefore is learnable so I could teach other people to get better results my job was to focus on the end user not the therapist and not the theory while everybody was worried about their theory of transactional analysis and psychoanalysis and neop freudianism and you know gestaltism and all the ismism things right I don't care 160 schools of psychotherapy I wanted to Know if two of them from different schools got a cent better what were they doing the same okay so I'm looking at the structure of Neurology as being the solution we we

ultimately we change neurologically you know which changes our the way we feel it changes what we think changes what we talk to ourselves how we talk to ourselves all of those representational systems as I call them you know of Consciousness ultimately change our neurology so that we can feel Different and therefore do different things the person who's terrified of an elevator gets in an elevator and they don't feel terrified then they can ride up and down in it right and everybody else was going you know tell me about your mother you know I mean yeah

and that doesn't help I tell you in in the 60s and the 70s Psychotherapy was freaking crazy and you know I don't know much about what they do now but I mean people would come in and say you know You know I'm I'm you know I'm really depressed my husband left me my children won't talk to me my dog died you know and they would go tell me about your father and you know and and to me that's non Secor yeah and and then they wonder what they're not getting results and thinking long and years

and years and nothing happen oh yeah and and and the longer it took the more it was your fault and more they get money because yeah yeah but they got paid by failure Not by success yeah and if you get paid by the failure unconsciously you're not going to want to succeed you know makes sense and part of my whole structure about charging by a change if people come in and they go you know I have a phobia of this and I go well cost you this much right you put the money in the account

and if you don't change you get your money back and if you you know if you can get in the elevator and go up and down then it's m how do you do this Calculation like a guy come someone comes and wants something you you well how do you do this calculation well sometimes I know ahead of time because I've done it before sometimes it sounds complicated and I know I'm going to have to figure it out and sometimes I don't know the answer myself so I'm going to have find somebody who does okay you

know and and you know it's it's it's with with every client it's going to be different you know and I have a very Sliding scale you know because I didn't I didn't want to just work with rich people there was a point at which I just became so expensive all my clients were spoiled entitled rich people which took the fun out of it so I decided to let them pay for the other people so I might be charging one guy 50 bucks and the next hour the next guy I would charge $110,000 who yeah so

that you know depending upon what it is and sometimes I just don't know so I have to put them Through a series of things to find out I might send them to a neurologist and get brain scans I might send them in and get blood tests uh that you know especially if their fingernails look funny I always send them in and get you know because I've had people with lead and you know copper poisoning and different kinds of minerals where their body isn't expelling the minerals and so therefore it affects their thinking it's like being

poisoned and uh they used to use a Lot of DDT where I live for mosquitoes and stuff and so if people depending upon how the manifestation of their quote schizophrenia or craziness or whatever it is I you know I might I might run through things as to get the process of elimination because just because they tell me that it's a psychological problem doesn't mean I believe them yeah this is good because when I when they tell me they go you know that you Know somebody you know has hysterical paralysis you know and they come blimping

in right I I don't know that it's all if you I'll ask I'll go have you done X-rays and they go and some of them will look at me and go on what and I'll go what what do you think right you know and and they would go on the leg and I go on their spine you know you know all the nerves go down the spine you know and if there you know if there's some kind of damage In there it could create paralysis you know I I recently had a vertebrae slip out and

I got a big giant pain down the front of my leg and across my hip and when he put it back in it went away right and so you know I kept a Cadre of backup people medical doctors neurologists chiropractors and they would refer people to me when they couldn't explain what was going on onh when there was no basis for things you know or or or to get people to do things I had doctors who sent people to me just to get them to swallow their pills because they would take antibiotics and as they

start to feel better they'd stop taking them and of course that just makes a stronger bug in you that's you know you got to take it until you see the bottom of the the bottom of the the barrel and and and to me you know it it isn't just cut or dried sometimes I know exactly what to do and Sometimes I have to figure it out and sometimes I have to go to somebody who knows better than me I got a lot of professional athletes and I've never even played some of the sports so I

didn't have the right answers so I would go and interview people who did it better than them you know I had somebody that's the batting average was low enough that if they started to slump they'd probably get kicked down to the miners and their coach asked me if I Could help him with his confidence because if he had more confidence he would hit the ball better and I said well that's an assumption on your part and it may be true and you may be absolutely right but I want to talk to somebody that bats a

lot better than he does first so I went and got to sit down with the guy on the team that had the highest batting average and start and ask him everything about like when they walk up to the thing I I watched films Of him going up and tapping the plate you know and then stepping out of the batter's box and stepping back in and tapping it again yeah so I got to ask him details about what these rituals did you know that what's he doing mentally while he's performing the physical ritual and what effect

does it have you know slowing time down you know which is a hypnotic phenomenon yeah and and when I taught this guy to engage in similar rituals and taught him mentally how to Slow time down and you know because the baseball players use this phrase I was really seeing the ball that day and I and when I ask how did it looked they'd go well bigger than it does normally and it's like it was moving slow enough I could almost count the strings W and you know and when I got the guy who wasn't batting

well to start thinking about that we we literally brought took a picture and had him start throwing it faster and faster and fast faster and Having him slow time down more enough and hypnotically just holding the bat and not even swinging just watching it and getting it so that it looked correct before he Swang so that he he could learned that he didn't need to slow time down all the time just when he walked up to the plate because when he walked up to the plate that should be that altered state makes him good at

that sport just like a prize fighter has got to do pain control has to you know somebody asked Me in the seminar today about doing pain control and I said well this is an NLP seminar not a deep trance control your symptom seminar but you know if if I have a client that has a sport where people are going to be hitting them all the time you know he's got to be able to slow time down he's got to be able to he's got to be able to th to his thresh all of pain way

up and you know they're all doing it to a certain degree the higher degree you can do and the more You can jump ahead in your mind and time and anticipate things you know because you have all these unconscious signals telling you when your punch is going to come and if you watch really successful boxers you know they're blocking punches before they even get start and that's cuz the muscles are all going in the body getting ready to do it so they kind watching the muscles moving they're not doing it consciously they're unconsciously knowing that

this does This they have the same body with the same neurology so they're picking up the signal and the signal is telling them this is coming so it's almost like they're a little bit ahead of the now you know that allows you to see things coming and just little little little differ you know and when I had golfers I I don't play golf never played golf so I had to go talk to Golfers and you know and that takes time yeah you know so you know recently I had a baseball major League baseball player that

blew probably the most important game of his life and he kept reliving it over and over again and of course it threw him into a slump you know and you know and when he walked in he said you know he said I've got to stop seeing this all day long every day or I'm you know he goes or you know I'm my career is going to come to an end and I you know I take him literally I go okay let's get on it you know since you Know exactly what I should do to you

I'll just believe you and do it and uh you know some people time you know some PE some people know what they need and some don't and if you listen carefully enough most clients will tell you what you need and sometimes they'll tell you that they don't know what they need in which case I have to find it either in myself or from somebody who does and you know the longer your career is of course the more resources you found over the Years you're learning different ways to do this and by the way do you

uh you see new clients in person do you're do online do you prefer any kind of well I've done online stuff mostly because of Co but I prefer people in the room you know there's there are things you just don't see online that you see when you're in person and you know but sometimes economics prevents it yeah and and uh so but you know when when you're talking about I had a college athlete That I saw right after the major league athlete and the college athlete had exactly the same problem and it was it was

like you know it was almost enough to make you believe in astrology you know suddenly I have all of these people that have exactly they're they're all pitchers they're all having the same problem they all blew a game they all you know it's the time of year for that you know and you know one is worried about his career the other is worried About college uh Pro Scout coming down but basically they're all doing the same stupid thing and I got to get them to stop it and do something smart you know when I told

the major league player I said you know I said all that time you're spending reliving this you could be imagining yourself throwing pitches that are better or more unique than any pitch you've ever thrown you know that you know you have a slider but you could come up with 10 other even more Effective ones you know if you thought about how to grip the ball and how the ball turns and spins in the wind all of those things I said watch pool players the amount of English they get on a ball they can get it

to turn left make her left hand turn and come backwards you know I said you know with the baseball there are things that people haven't done yet and you should be making yourself imagine yourself being a better pitcher than you ever were and if you Practice that you know because this is what great athletes do they you know they don't sit around and imagine missing shots you you know they get they get their brain to to do things in fact there was one basketball player who was so smart there was a guy that was making

that was winning games almost singlehandedly so and what he figured to do was to get between him and the basket and move him back so that he was you know 8 to 10 inches further away than he Normally shot from because it was an entirely different angle w and and he won a championship game just by mentally figuring out that if he changed the angle on this guy he'd miss more shots he wouldn't be as comfortable with him and and he did that before the game he was like doing mental training yeah was doing it

was like what can I do to stop this guy because he was a defensive player yeah and he was going how can you know this guy's such a great shot but When he watched the films he realized he was always shooting from the same place MH you know 10 or 15 different places but no matter where it was was it was almost the same distance every time so he moved that distance back you know almost a foot just by musling his way in there and the guy missed an extra 30% of the shots yeah and

and he won the game and if he hadn't a mentally figured out how to beat the guy he just physically couldn't he wasn't tall enough strong Enough fast enough the guy was too good MH so he had to make it so where he made the guy be less good and he had to figure out a way of doing it and it's not in you know there wasn't anything that told anybody to ever do that but he went you know his brain went I have to do something different and you know when whenever you whenever your

mental approach to anything physical psychological learning anything else everybody gets in ruts and the only way Out of a rut is to do something different yeah and it is nice that you're saying that I once I spoke with a very famous Brazilian basketball player and she she was the best in Brazil she was one of the best in the world and in that time her name is ortensia and she told me we was doing like interview and she told me that few days before the game she got really crimpy she just go to her place

and stay alone and I asked her what's the reason What do you do when you're there and she said she got like a video she can project the game she can see herself playing and doing all the the strategies new ones and doing all the game and the other players could realize that oh you are too too boring you are not not cool but she she got her time she always do that and she said this was the biggest difference for her but she never realized that till the day she she spoke with me about

this so probably you had a Lot of those Sho oh yeah over the years when we start taking anybody who's an expert at anything and you start getting them to tell you how they do it most of the time it happens so quickly and so unconsciously that you know that that the activity of doing it is misread by everybody else you know that they they don't they don't understand you know that that they go you know some had a golfer that missed a shot in a big tournament and he went out after the sun Went

down and put lights up and shot the thing all [ __ ] night long the same shot and and even on the news they went oh you know he's obsessing about this you know you know blah blah blah blah and of course the next day on the course he hit that shot perfectly oh right and you know it it he kept rehearsing success when you rehearse success you know if you shot like when I worked with close-up card magicians I found out they visualized from their point of view what The perfect thing is to do

then they put their hands in it and try to keep up with the movie if they get it wrong they don't care they just go back to the beginning and start over when they get it right it feels great but when they get it wrong they don't get a bad feeling this impulses them to practice faster and faster and faster and faster so that they build up this wonderful dexterity that it takes to do a good C trip and and many people are like this That you know that that when they're practicing success they do

well and then they go into a slump because they start making the wrong pictures and and they don't even realize that they switched from visualizing excess visualizing fast failure and you know a lot of the people even the people in the seminar today and stuff as I asked them questions about the little things they write me you you can tell that what they've done is they've they've mastered Some kind of repetitive habit of something that produces a result that they don't like okay and yet they keep doing it so they they are kind masters of

something that they don't want right and and this is what I find with most people you know that you know that that I if I I have a tendency to look at what most people do as a difficulty as a talent and the advantage is if I can get them so they can make it worse then they can make it better makes sense and part Of it is the same thing because just like with that basketball player once she became conscious of it she could do it more on purpose yeah well the same thing is

true with somebody that's having you know phobic responses or you know uh people who are terrified of spiders and I tell them there's going to be a spider and they get afraid and there is no spider they're afraid of the idea of the spider so if I can change the idea they'll end up holding a spider We'll be doing that in a couple of days yeah and this is so funny when you say that people say oh my God they start to see spiders and you just say you just say the name and they the

people start to imagine and be afraid of that so so funny yeah well it but it proves my point the reason I bring it up ahead of time is to get them to realize that the only thing you have to deal with is the internal image they're making because it makes the fear it's not the spider Doesn't have command over there spider is not projecting fear from spider head to your head that's not how it works and and I'm not saying you should pick up every spider you but you know you know these these people

that come in you know go to elementary schools and kids hold these things Virginia was a wonderful person she was she used to come and stay at my house and make chicken soup she she did chicken soup she made chicken soup she would to make big pots of Chicken chicken noodle soup she was high right tall oh yeah she was really tall and always wore super tall high heels wow she was so super tall yeah but yeah she was over six foot tall but she always wore these big 6inch heels even when she came to

the country to my house you know and would walk walk around and you could hear him clicking everywhere and you know and my dogs loved Virginia dogs are good judges of character they are they are I had two big German Shepherds and when Virginia would come over they were inseparable you know wherever Virginia was the dogs were and that time that you met Virginia you was young right you was like 20 met I met her I was young but I knew Virginia for a long time and how old was she in that time I I

don't I don't know exactly yeah because one of the questions that I I always ask people it is who kind of change your way to to to live to do things but like I met Jeffrey Z when I Was like 20 21 years old I was in one of his seminars was a Congress and was very funny because I on that time I was doing downloading movies or something like that and he saw that and say whoa this is incredible you can download I remember that time I was watching The Apprentice When Donald Trump was

not that that guy that we saw on on TV on politicians and he said oh how do you do that and then I show him and was so whoa this is nice and we kind of become Friends and he was I don't know he's like 80 now so he was 60 years old something like that yeah he showed up recently in a seminar in Florida oh and uh he he's nice I I love Jeffrey he's a nice guy and he's kept Milton's yeah memory alive the Legacy they turned his house into a mum oh you

know he offered me to sleep in milon's bed and I said whoa I don't know if I can you imagine during the night and sometimes you hear something moving I Don't know that's something to to wor would you no actually I wouldn't he didn't have that nice of furniture to start with I like to stay in a nice clean Hotel okay yeah the idea of sleeping I Milton's office was a creepy little place you know I understand that he cured a lot of clients there but you know it and then I I met Jeffrey Z

and he he kind of become friends he become a Mentor for me I used to say that he's like my godfather in in self-development war and he introduced me a lot of people he helped me give me advice and a lot of things and you had the same kind of the same with Virginia you become really close friends what do you believe Virginia used to send me clients because she was traveling all the time and she would send me clients and and sometimes when Virginia got overloaded she would come to my house and hide because

people Followed her everywhere but they wouldn't go to my house you know okay I got it they knew better I had big dogs I lived in the country and and and I was not ingratiating so my house was a good place to hide and Virginia is one of the few people in the world that I would give her my bedroom and let her sleep you know I mean you know at the time you know I I had a house I had I had two small rooms but I would sleep on the Couch so Virginia she

was just she was a good friend you know she took me to Canada I recorded her for a month I helped her finish a book you know we did a lot of things she you know back before there were you know copy machines you know you had to Xerox things all of that stuff I remember that got M the alcohol thing yeah I I sat there getting high as a kite off of that [ __ ] mimeographing manuals for her training seminar to hand man to day wo yeah sorting out All the pages and putting

them in binders and all that stuff so that she could take them up to Cold Mountain Institute and I went up and recorded her for a month and oh nice uh you know and and it was funny they had a little window booth in this room that they built where they had this conference and it was terribly funny CU I was probably 22 23 years old and when told them I'm bringing my book editor up with me uh I I flew up and I had to take Three planes and land on this little sea plane

to get to this place and and when I got off the plane they kept looking around me like this not this guy I got that a lot for when I was young people would go to the plane and stand at the airport and and they they'd Go is is there anybody else on the plane and i' go no and they'd go they go oh I'm waiting for this editor and i' go that's me you know and they go I was expecting someone older you know They read the structure of magic they all assumed I was

45 50 years old or something and you was 20 something yeah I was I was I was my 20s wow and you have a long hair and rock and roll face and bad attitude that's good well I like that you know there there's no rule that says that you know that you have to be an old goder to write to write an academic book you know that structure of magic was actually my thesis the first four chapters was my college thesis and Uh you know when John and I wrote that we were we were trying

to put together chomsky's work about intuitions with the intuitions of people who were effective and there weren't a lot of them W tell you the number was very small because there was no focus on success you know it it was all peeling you know metaphors peeling away layers of your personality and rebirthing and transactional Analysis my parent is talking to your child it's Talking to my adult you know it was all of these theories that everybody was defending and I didn't have a theory to defend uh you know you can't you can't have a neurolinguistic

programming ISM it's not even grammatical I made it that way on purpose I wasn't looking for followers I'm looking for people who wanted to get results and the more people did things that worked you know even I accessing cues people were so impressed because They could actually look at something and they didn't need to interpret it used to be if you cross your arms and legs they would go oh you're Clos to new ideas if you look away you're avoiding something and actually when you look away you're looking for something so you can answer the

questions they're asking and when we made the distinction between accessing information representing information and started to go into strategies about how people accomplish Things people started getting results you know I mean do do do you remember the first time you got like a theory about this was just in your mind and then you you you use this the first time that you saw results do you remember exactly who you was talking about with what's the problem I I know this used to this was a long time ago but yes it was but I remember my

first time I love a lot of things I remember first time I use an LP In someone and well was oh my God because Chang my belief it wasn't even called that then yeah I know that you and it with with a lot of people you know I got a lot of people over being timid you originally you know we did experimental groups with college students and and then the psychiatrist started one I can remember one of them they brought me a a guy who was uh who if if he saw a toilet he felt

like he couldn't pee and if there was no toilet There he felt like he had to pee and so the whole time stry they well it's actually in the the dsm1 it's actually got psychiatric thing that's fairly common that has a name and all that stuff and they this they brought two psychiatrists brought this guy with a woman that ran some kind of Virginia CER Institute in Canada so there were like five of them that arrived at my house and and I just put this guy in a trance and and gave him a an indu

thing when I Touched his knee he felt like he had pee and when I touched his other knee felt like he couldn't pee right and then there was a bathroom door and I opened the door and pressed that you have to pee and closed it and pressed that I don't have to just literally mechanically went back and forth and you know and then finally the guy goes in and pees and you know and comes and sits down and the psychiatrist was like totally amazed he goes you turned it off And on I said I can

still turn it off and on the guy's not in a trance anymore and I reached over and touched him on the knee and the guy goes oh my god I've got to pee again and I touched on the knee and he goes oh no it's okay right and this just shrink went he goes he goes I don't understand I said I thought you did hypnosis with people and he goes yeah I said do you know what a post hypnotic suggestion is and he goes well yeah I said it's a posst hypnotic Suggestion you know anchoring

is just a form of post hypnotic suggestion it's a little more natural but by the same token you know I you I don't care where this came from I don't care what cost it I don't care what's reinforced it I don't care how many years you've had him in therapy you know you defined the problem by him having the wrong response at the wrong time so I just switched them and all of these people in the room they were all people that have been Working doing therapy for years and stuff start talking to each other

they go you know do you see how amazing you know how many things we could cure with this yeah you know like it had never dawned on them that there's a bunch of things that you could actually hear you know and they they had that initial response that you always get from they go we could destroy our private practices you know and that's that point where I always look at them I'm go oh We're going to run out of crazy people on planet Earth that's G to happen you always will find someone oh always but

as soon as you do that they start talking to their friends the psychiatrist starts talking to other psychiatrists and then my office is filled up again I don't ever run out you know 50 years the people have been dragging people to me from all over the [ __ ] planet now and uh but it were things like that most of the things I Did originally were quite simple you know I mean I had a guy with hysterical paralysis and I moved it to the other leg and I moved it to the psychiatrist leg right and

you know this is nice wicked sense of humor that I had um but and then I had had things where two psychiatrists bring me a patient right they got one patient theyve both seen this woman and they're going to some conference and they both written papers about the what caused it and they bring Me this woman and they say we don't want you to change her right that's not why we're here we want you to find out which of us is right and I said about what you become like a Jude right they said we

we we want you to take her back you know hypnotically and find out whether or not because she had had had a phobia of people chewing gum and one of them is going you know you know this is because she walked in on her parents having sex and was traumatized by it and over the Years the trauma manifested as the sound of gum chewing you know you know and sorry I I did some mind Vision I don't what yeah well and then I I asked Heather pchi I said so what's up with you and he

said well he goes obviously he goes obviously this is that she stuck at the breast feeding developmental stage and I said how do you know that and he triumphantly looks at me and he goes because there are fish in her dreams and I'm going right it's all Clear to me now you know so I hypnotize her and it turns out it has nothing to do with any of that you know that you know like a trauma or something like that no her father wanted her to you know be tough and not be afraid of things

and held her by the foot off the edge of a ski lift while he was chewing tobac and the sound got associated with it okay accidentally I'm afraid I [ __ ] that up though but you know time I was Done she wasn't afraid of it anymore I was chewing gum what they said was say oh you ruined our presentation or well I said it doesn't matter you're both wrong I said makes sense so here have a piece of gum and chew it and they went but we can't in front of the client and she

went oh no it's okay well and then this broke some beliefs I believe well it it wasn't about the belief it was about the fact that I had her laughing while she was Remembering it so suddenly the laughter was a stronger emotion than the fear and you know you overwhelm bad feelings with good ones and that's how you get rid of them yeah so that they don't control your life she still remembered what happened it just that she wasn't unconsciously responding to any sound that was similar to that with the same sense of fear that

she had and this is a question that we always get so oh so if I just use NLP I will suppress the Problem and I always ask okay where is the problem can you touch can you can you pick from inside your head so put off and this is you always explain this for us just it is not about to suppress anything there's anything to suppress it is about to find a better strategy and that's amazing neurocortical pathways are layered we have billions and billions of them you know know there are more neurons in your

brain than there are stars in the sky each talking to 10 To 100 others we have billions of fortical Pathways that we've developed over the years you will not have new learnings until you have new cortical Pathways that if you have a cortical pathway that always runs in the same Loop you have to get in there some point where there's an orgate instead of just and Gates so that that every time somebody chews gum you're terrified gums chewing Terri gum Che Terror come chewing Terror you have to get to the Point where it's Terror or

laughter and then you have to put something else in like it just doesn't matter you know nice Richard you're you always work with technology you you you work with computers you was a programmer you are a mathemati mathematician this is the right side mathematician mathematician mathematician and at the base of everything I do are are algorithms of some way shape or form you know part of the reason I studied Holography is because holography is is the most sophisticated set of algorithms see Optics was the only field that ever had the nerve to say they had

learned everything there is to learn and then somebody came along and invented the laser and wrecked everything right and and they just couldn't explain how forier patterns which is how you make a hologram you you you create you shine an object with a laser on it you split the beam and you cross the beam and it Splatters light onto something and then when you put the reference beam back you can see the actual object and it appears nine places on the plate some of them are in front of the glass some of them are behind

the glass and what's funny is people can't see them until you teach them how to see them you have to put your finger on the glass and pull it out and when it's in the right place suddenly people can see it after that they can't not see it well because the Brain learns how to see the hologram and uh that's nice yeah well and the things you that control Holograms like when you cut it in half you don't lose any of the image you lose brightness and so all the things in submodalities were very much

represented by the algorithms that constitute the field of holography so we built a complete holographic lab in my basement and got one of the best holographs in the country and made Holograms right and uh we did it as an Economic project it didn't work out in the end but you know we made little little things for Sight today out of little blocks and and we made a think of the Concord where when you held it up to the white light and moved it the front of the plane would come out the front of the thing

it stick out oh and it was actually a little model you know that we made a hologram of it wasn't a real Concord it was a little model that we made a hologram of and when I did that It wasn't so much because I wanted to be in the holography business I wanted to understand how that memory system worked and that the memory ins inside our brain because it it matches the it matches the way our memories work right our our memories like they used to think you're because they could put an electric shock on

your head in your brain somewhere and you would remember something that that's where the memory was but it turns out everything is stored everywhere and see The nice thing about a whole holographic memory is that is that if you damage part of it you still have all the information like the algr that you cut you it still has everything there our brains are like that everything is everywhere so it's not like if if if if there's a you know you had a tumor that that you know 40% of your memories are gone and all the

rest are intact right that there may be things that are hard for you to access like motor control or Depending upon where the damage to the brain is but it doesn't mean there isn't plasticity enough to go around it the work of Paul bakar I found fascinating I went to meet him when he was first working he's now very famous and there are institutes and everybody talks about plasticity of the brain but they didn't in those days uh he was getting blind people to see with cameras mounting them on and be enough that they could

solder under a microscope and walk around you Know carpet with lines on it and never step over the line shave and things like this and uh it it was funny at the lab he was in the other people who were busy torturing pelicans and all the things that these people do uh you had to walk through all the labs to get to the back where he was and when I would go I'm trying to fight Paul bita's lab they'd all roll their eyes like he was crazy and out of he was the crazy one not

the T but he was he Was crazy enough that he did something incredibly intelligent that has changed our understanding of the brain forever and even well I even mention him in the structure of magic you know which was published in 1975 uh you know the first edition actually came out in 73 and it was just you know we just made it ourselves and handed it out to our students but uh his work you know I've always kept in mind that if even when There's damage to the brain it doesn't mean the some other part of

the brain can't perform the same function you know a part of getting people to do things a lot of the things I've done in classes people look at as Miracles but it I'm just instead of focusing on what it won't do I try to find something that will and you know that you know when people have spasma responses in their body getting them to focus on taking all the energy that it takes to do that and Focusing it towards the mouth so that they smile and breathe in and then relax before just before it's not

that they couldn't still have spasma responses I'm trying to get them before they go into the stress that causes it to do something else so that involuntarily they smile the brain just needs to reroot the signal yeah and trusting that it can whether you do it with hypnosis or physical training or anything I don't care there's very little that I won't Try to get people into a better State and I have this blind belief it may not even be accurate but I still going to keep it that says that there is literally nothing can't be

done if you try enough stuff that's a good one well it is because it takes the responsibility off of the client and puts it on me to vary my behavior until I can get them to get the results that they want and you know the model that was used before was that The client wasn't ready yet they were resistant you know until you peeled away everything about their childhood and found out about penis envy and all this other crap you know that's had to be slow painful you know and take years and years and years

you know and if you have to waste five years making a personal change that's a lot of freaking time it is a lot of time and it's a lot of money and I kept believing that you it would be easier to do it faster do do you Believe these new technologies like real how do you call reality do you have like the helmets the vision the sounds like the new weapo thing that you put in your head and you see whatever we can program do you believe this will change how people can reprogram their minds

or something like that well I I think it is changing how they're programming their minds I don't think all of it's for the better you know that you know getting endorphin rushes off of a video game Rather than a friendship is not necessarily a good thing this is it's not necessarily a bad thing but it definitely is changing the way people treat interact and and learn and think uh virtual reality which is what you're talking about V VR machines we're at the mercy of the people programming them right and uh that doesn't necess that's not

necessarily the best people to be doing it yeah that's true when they first Started making this I was I tried to get them to make things that had to do with learning just the simple stuff spelling oddly enough when my book about education came out it was not well received by hardly anybody because they what they didn't like about it was that I focused on academics they said you know well you know we need to get we need to get kids you know to think of what their place in the world is you know and

you know and I Was focused on you know how do you spell how do you read how do you write how do you learn music how do you become a better athlete you know and very literal so that the people that fell through the cracks of the educational system could be brought up to speed because I believe those people might end up being the most brilliant people down the road I didn't have high scores in school you know that you didn't no not not until I got to college okay but you know that you know

Hell they wouldn't they would they wouldn't let us do much in the schools I went to they were just trying they were just trying to keep us from killing each other you know this was back in Jersey no that'd be in Cal I grew up in California born in New Jersey but I grew up in California okay not all the best neighborhood too okay that that our our our our ability to take these machines and make them something of value will depend upon who does the programming for Them when you think how much garbage is

on the freaking internet you know and that that it's the Internet isn't good or bad it's now a fact it is what people kind of buy and one they just produce more and more and more and keep people busy yeah that's that's crazy well right but that doesn't that doesn't necessarily make them more connected yeah no you know and you know I think coov taught people that staying home is not the best idea they're starting to Come outside and play event that being locked in your house you know I felt like the whole world was

told go to your room you know totally I felt like I was teaching seminars from outside the window you know I went on the window of the conference room and looked at people from the outside waved uh you know that there's a real difference between virtual reality uh I remember when this VR stuff started it you know it was big in San Francisco and I lived there at the time I went to a VR convention and they had some very primitive versions of this stuff and some nerd turns around and looks at me and he

goes someday we'll be able to have a machine so that we could have sex with any actress ever was or will be and I and I looked at him and I said I have that now and I don't need a machine to do it you know it's called imagination son you know and he goes he goes no but this Would seem more real and I said this you know it depends upon your imagination and of all the goals in life you know having treated many of these women personally I don't know that that's a goal

would want to have to start with yeah you know that uh you know I I want my relationships to be intimate not not at arms length let alone you know with devices on my fingertips and my penis U I just don't think so by the way this is a big problem in those days the Pornography thing there's people there's a lot of people they got the big big issues with pornography they don't leave home they they try to do this in public this is a big subject on on internet and maybe they're just this is

growing I don't know how but this is there's a lot of people that can be helping using the technologies that you develop and these kind of things compulsive behaviors are are that compulsive behaviors and you know as far as I can tell pornography is Not the best examples you know of what to strive for in life yeah you know I'm I'm sorry you know but m m movies have to fit in a certain amount of time and uh you know that when you start looking at movie stars and thinking your life should be like that

or quote unquote reality shows which are not very real and thinking that this is how people are supposed to live instead of deciding for yourself how to live and you know deciding what would actually make you Happy and what you would actually enjoy and stepping inside your own imagination and then striving for the things that you want in your own experience uh to me you know I I try to I try to get people to to have their own search engine you know and that you know the inter internet has things you can do that

are very terribly convenient I can have water shipped to my house without having to go to the store and load it in the car and if I time it right I can get The guy to carry it in right but I have to track him on the little thing you know and at my age that's a good thing I shouldn't be lifting things that heavy I go to the gym how old are you now Richard I'm 733 you look good thank you I look better than I did too you know which I I take is

a good sign it is I think my wife is responsible for a lot of that oh that's good by the way we we got some good stuff on internet like the new Documentary about your life about a lot of things that you have been during the last decades the the the develop a lot of people that you met you help and how was to to shoot this documentary I don't know if you was totally connected with this prodution I know you was in the prodution and a lot of people was there your friends I was

the subject of it but it was but sometime sometimes the subject don't know that something's happening but you Was there I knew they were filming but they film most of the time almost everything I do is filmed but they got down to it they came and filmed at my house forever you know but they went to England and you know Chris who did a lot of the filming and and John Sebastian LVL did a lot of the filming and uh you know but a lot of it is other people talking about me and you have

to understand I wasn't there when that happened you know so While while it all surrounds my life you know it only surrounds certain parts of my life you know there there are many things it doesn't talk my life is a lot longer than 90 minutes you know for sure and uh you know the price is right it doesn't cost you anything so that's good did you saw the the docummentary before release you saw there I don't know there's people that don't like to to see this kind of thing how was your reaction about that my

reaction yeah Well when the first time I saw it uh when they had the first screening was before it was a little different than it is now and at least I remember it different and uh that that when it was released and somebody told me I put it on there and but you got to understand my memory of these things is not necessarily the same as the people talking about it that's what I'm talking about you know I you know these people that are coming and talking this is down The road I remember them when

they first came right so what's inside my head is different I see how much these people change they're talking about how it really changed their life but you're looking at this bright shiny person telling you you know and you know I got it you remember the person that arrived before that's good and you know even with the military things you know that that when I did those projects you know they don't Go into much detail about all the the things that we did and how much money it saved and all of those things and you

know those people were very courageous you know to set up that project and you know and people wrote books and made fun of us and magazine people criticized us you know because we were trying to take the most talented people find out how they you know how they shot guns versus the way they were training people to shoot guns because I thought hitting What you aimed at was a good thing you know and uh and when I went to work with to do those things I was criticized by everybody you know you're getting involved with

the military industrial complex you know and you know which was bad you know that I should be anti-war an anti- this and and and and I'm interested in these young people not getting hurt and not hurting each other for no reason and and I'm interested in my taxes being lower you know and things Like that you know that that if we're going to train people to do things we should give them the best training in the world that's true and you know we did sonar training we did all kinds of different projects and we had

a group of people where we had they were going out talking to the experts bringing back the results and we would meet as a group and try to build models that would make better training things it's no different than what I was doing in the schools It's no different than what I did with music or with athletes or with sports teams I worked with or any of this stuff and you know all we have is somebody going and talking capping it up at the end going you know this is this was great you know we

had all these people doing this thing but you know it doesn't show the amount of hard work that went into it and all the people that put hours and swe and all the brilliant people we got to talk to you know cuz Some of these people are just fabulously amazing you know I got to meet a lot of really interesting people doing interesting things how how long took this military project oh it went off and on for decade oh nice you know I mean they couldn't afford me so I pretty much you know I mean

I they couldn't even afford my hotel room they had government Service rates and I wasn't going to stay in that place so you know and I didn't even like their conference room once so I rented one at the hotel okay and brought everybody to my hotel and bought them lunch and dinner you know to me that you know it wasn't about the money it was about the work you know and and you know sometimes when I work for a corporation I'm there because they're paying me a lot of money and sometimes the work is so

interesting I can't say no I get to meet really interesting people doing really interesting things and being a neural linguistic programmer The greatest part of the job is finding out how people think about things who are successful you know talking to an artist who paints wonderful things and finding out what they do versus another artist you know finding out how how how somebody solves a problem I talked to a nuclear physicist once that built nuclear power plants oh how how was that well it was great because when I started talking to them about how they

designed them how they think about them and you Know how they function you know I I learned a lot about how much they don't know about what they're [Music] doing right and you know and it was this is so so scared yeah it was like you know it's one of those things where you go okay but also in terms of you know everybody talking about clean energy but they only talk about the parts of it they want to talk about talk about how they make These batteries and where they're made and how much they the

planet they disturb and child labor and you know and you know they're go they they just they make this gross decision they go this bad this good you know and at one point all nuclear power plants were bad but if we would have built more of them we'd have cleaner energy that's true France 80% of their energy comes from nuclear power plants you know now what we have to do is take that nuclear waste which Is so volatile and figure out how to neutralize it and make more energy yeah and if we were solving problems

rather than arguing about good or bad we would just get so much more done I never argued about which school of psychotherapy was better or worse than any other I just didn't care you know to me something worked or it didn't work and if it worked I'd use it if it didn't work I just ignored it and uh that's the philosophy that's taken me 50 years down The long road of doing all kinds of things that people said were in possible I can't tell you how many times I've heard that something can't be done and

then did it that's that's totally true it is nice to to hear that because I remember first time I I go in uh NLP seminar and I have no idea what would happen I I had in mind that NLP was something about public speeching abilities that you say yes yes yes no no no very very superficial idea And I just had in mind oh I got so much potential but I can really make happen and then a friend of mine told me oh you should try NLP I say I did that really you did that

yeah I did that I have been in a seminar and but I I really didn't I just had in mind this and I I found a lot of people that got the same because I was fat I I was totally afraid to to speak with people I was like the typical Japanese guy you you've probably saw a lot of like I was really really shy I I Used to say that I count people if I got like two people I can talk three oh no to too much people even at home if I got my

mom my father and I don't know my brother I say no too much people better not I love that thing there the height phobia that that people don't get afraid until the fourth step yeah you know that they don't have a public speaking phobia until they're on their third person you know they have it all worked out you know you train your mathematician F and Then I was in a seminar and then I did the the technique NP technique and then wasn't there anymore and I can't what the movie does that I think is helpful

is it shows people that that that people can make dramatic change these people that they're interviewing got results because in instead of doing something that didn't work they they did something that did work yeah and you know over the years there's you know I'm also very aware of how much they cut out and a lot Of the stuff I really like they cut out you know but that was just because I had vested interest in there when they filmed when I was painting and and they they all got all excited and then it just ended

up on the cutting floor you know do you do you paint them right yeah I I paint I paint with ink mostly can anyone have one of your painters what do you mean have no no you can do you sell do you like show I have sold them people have bought paintings That I made mostly because mostly because they were in my house and so them I I had an art of appraiser by one of my paintings I had some other paintings in my house that I was belong to the company I work for and

they they were selling them off so they sent them over to my house to look at these paintings and person goes what about that one and I go I go that's said that's not owned by the company that's mine and they went who painted it and I Went I did and they went they went really and they go and then they kept looking at it closer and closer and then they started talking about the other paintings and they kept coming back to it they were just attracted to it and so that's that's nice and when

I said what do you think it's worth when they said the number I went okay it's a lot higher than what I would have said but yeah I I I use a you know I use a thickening agent and and ink Most of the time because it's brighter like really popping colors and I this painting was a picture of a blue ball and the blue ball had layer upon layer and each layer had little figures in it and then there'd be another layer and another layer so it it becomes almost threedimensional and then it has

flames coming off of it into the darkness and uh so it's a blue ball on fire and the closer you look at it the more things that are in there it's called The Well Of Souls and you know that to me that you know I'll paint and then I'll paint stuff in it and paint stuff in it and paint stuff in it and you know like hram he doing kind of like a kind of like a hologram you know very multi-dimensional you know you looked at it you you look closer if you stand further away

and get closer I like Dolly's work Dolly's work I find very impressive much better painter than I am I don't paint all that often but I did Like it and you used to you used to like music too you a musician for a time right yeah for for a time I'm not the world's greatest musician I do mostly compose uh the personal enhancement series you know that's on Eternal now and you know the the music in the background Denver and clay and I wrote all that music and uh there's a lot of other tapes that

have music in the background that I wrote for I write a lot of trance music typically write on a Grand piano and then I go in my keyboard and record it and and I have a recording studio in my house and you you recording yeah it's not working right now they updated my computer and screwed everything up so I have to I know how this things works this like this room was like crazy a few days ago and then we just set up for half this interview so it is always changing my wife never got

that shoe I said oh is Sho not working I want your recording things I Said no no take more one more week yeah well anyway yeah but yeah I'm always working on some kind of a song or something you know it's just to me it's a form of meditation you know it helps to relax me which kind of music do you used to hear do you well when I was growing up it was all rock and roll rock and roll you know a lot of blues rock and roll um I went through a big phase

where I listen to a lot of classical music and uh I took uh music Appreciation in college and really got a bug about it and started enjoying the symphony I still like going during Symphonies I don't think I would like playing in one but I like listening to them you know and and I still I still write very transy music you know the electronic keyboards that we have now make that so easy to compose and change everything most of my keyboards are like 20 years old so you know but I don't want to change them

because I'd have to Relearn how to do everything the learning curve on these things is not short it isn't but in in the movie of the things I like is there's there's so much variety of it it starts to show that over the decades all the different kinds of things you know that you know we have people from the military and we have you know people that made personal changes and people that did hypnosis and people from different walks of life you know That did all kinds of different things NLP has grown to be a

huge thing you know it has lots of domains lots of applications it's about how we think and how we plan and how we succeed and how we motivate you know and it offers people such a wide variety of things you know I have books on all kinds of different subjects over the years and uh you know it's it's it's one of those things where you know people ask me think go where's NLP going and I it's Not a it's not a person it'll go wherever I take it and where people like you take it uh

where where when things aren't working then it's time to change how we think my favorite phrase is D tell people you know if you change the way you think it will change how you feel and therefore change what you're capable of doing you know the whole history of pro progress on this planet has been that we've changed our ideas and then it changed the way we felt and Then we did new things accomplished new things you know uh it's happened in physics it's happened in chemistry we first had to change what we believed was possible

and then we could change how we felt about things and try new things and do new things and make those great jumps in progress that solve problems and Lord knows this planet's got enough of them yeah totally totally any it's not anytime soon I'm G to run out of work that's true by the way I love the The parts of the movie that knowing your a little bit of your work knowing NLP and all that stuff and but was I was able to see the Richard kind of the real Richard your your life how you

really care about people because I remember when I first come to study with you I just heard before Oh Richard is a bad ass guy he's bad he say I remember a lot of stories that I heard but every time I I I heard that start say but it's not bad that's that's cool I remember once And you can say if it is true or not I remember once Robert DS was our student and he was supposed to go to the stage and he he was so nervous and he got a notes and you stopped

on his side and said oh Robert So Co can I see and he said oh yes and he gave you and you go on and I say [ __ ] this is coool and he got he did is that true yeah but it wasn't Robert Dills oh good to know it was somebody else okay I've actually done it to a number of People it was during the trainers training but yeah Robert is a very sharp kid always was always was from the very first time I met him when he was a college student very very

bright and in some ways a very pure neurolinguistic programmer because he didn't have all that nonsense that most people learn and have to unlearn he was pretty young young young right well he was young he was a college student 17 18 years old when he first started you know but I Remember I was young myself he was young too and uh yeah it's always been a bright kid you know and and you know he's one of the few people that has produced things in this field that I think are worth producing because a lot of

stuff I see is just regurgitation of the same [ __ ] over and over again you know I write a book and people say the same thing that's in it or small part of it and act like it's a big deal uh but you know Robert is you know has has done some things where he's applied these skills in a way which I find interesting oh totally yeah and another another story that I heard was that one that you go to AA meetings and you want to help people to get over the the addictions of

alcohol and then you record some like um tapes with subconscious messages Chan conscience message and you gave Chan and I say whoa that's that's cool it did work nobody never end story so I never Heard if it was true or not and what happened before that after that well act actually what it was about is that everybody was going wild over subliminal tapes okay so I made a subliminal tape and only underneath it the sound of the ocean was commands like everything will stress you the hell out everything will freak you out and so I

played a h 100,000 terrible horrible suggestions okay and I gave it to these people and I said this is a relaxation tape it has Subliminal re stuff on and all these people came back and said oh we had the best week of our life oh and that convinced me that subliminal tapes were not a good idea subliminal suggestion works you know inir hypnosis works a lot of my tapes have a lot of hypnotic suggestions on it but making ones that people can't actually hear you know and and saying that because there's a 100,000 suggestions that

you know that you're going to listen to this and Somehow or other it'll help you uh the one verbal suggestion overrode all the subliminal suggestions so all these people came back and went I had the most relaxing you know those it was wonderful so my one verbal suggestion was more power than 100, yeah things that they couldn't actually hear makes sense so I didn't make any more subliminal tapes that convinced me that that was just one of the areas that was was not a worthwhile yeah thing to get into but That was the kind of

stuff that I I I heard and when I heard they say oh Richard brender is not nice because he do that and I say oh [ __ ] this is this is cool I want to meet him and when I come to your seminars I I totally got in love for the way that you work because you are so literal you work with the ma MYRY you you you you kind of you got your Rhythm and it is so good it is so good The rhythms in the class and you talk and you hold it

is kind of a Symphony and everybody's just there and people getting kind of hypnos trening and even the trainers they said oh be careful if you go there and you use the headphones on the side of the stage that's true they say if you you sit there and you look to the trainers the trainers are listen Richard's voice really really high and they get like and they get that's that's the power of what we do and this is so amazing then since the first time I met You I say well he's not a bad guy

he he doing his way and this is nice and watching the the movie I totally got that it's so nice I I cry like crazy in the part as your first wife died and I was watching the on my cell phone walking on the streets and then I was crying as crazy as a baby and then said whoa that's that's that's a nice documentary I I'm glad that I saw that and really really touched me was a very sweet girl and you Know it's a terrible disease that she had that took her and you know

was supposed to kill her fast and it took a long time how old was she when she she passed away this was long ago that was 2004 she would have been just I think she was 49 okay something like that she was just late 40s M old old age is not for the weak yeah somebody once said to me and they said it takes a lot of courage to grow old You know that's and it does you spent a lot of time they do a lot of things to you that they you don't have to

do when you're young yeah you know you know that they start recommending you get regular colonostrophy and all of these things you know you spent a lot more time at the doctor's office being prodded and poked and taking blood and all of this stuff and every doctor wants blood for something and you know that's true I I'm right in on that I'm even 40 so I Understand that yeah well I even went through the stem cell thing and where they take your blood out and spin it around and take out the stem cells and jabbed

at my knee to get my knee to work again and very impressive stuff there a lot of great things going on in medicine um time consuming time consuming yeah you they make you bend to their will and their timing you know and what what about this new generation resar of the kids that they got like a lot of Learning diffs a lot of keep focus in just something and a lot of parents just put down on drugs a lot of drugs they giv them what do you think about this how can we help them with

learning how to use better the brain well to start with you know I I have over my career I've had a lot of people that are supposed to be learning disabled and they're not a lot of people who have attention deficit disorder who don't that you know I've met some that you Know that their you know their mind is all over the bloody place and uh and they give them riddlin and you know they become somewhat more functional but the side effects of it is terrible and you know I had a grandson that they tried

this with for a while and finally my daughter took him off of and said [ __ ] this I'm not doing this you know and it it it to me that it shouldn't be the go-to solution yeah you know how can we drug this problem away uh that you Know that if if people are having trouble paying attention we should make it more interesting because you take these people and they can play a video game for five [ __ ] hours so they have attention they got a lot of attention yeah definitely so they should

be able to focus their attention by teachers becoming more interesting and you know that we should have more variety in how we school people I like charter schools because they have different kinds of Charter schools that do different things and not everything is right for everybody and to try to to try to homogenize learning so that everybody learns the same thing at the same age and the same thing you know some people are going to drop off some people are going to do good and some people can't just sit still that long and uh you

know that to me you know I've taken a lot of people off of a lot of drugs over the years you know I have doctors that do it So they do it slowly so they don't go through withdrawal but you know I've had young kids as as young as 12 who are on eight different antipsychotics and and sleeping pills and wakeup pills and concentration pills and all these pills and it's just not good for you yeah that you know that I I believe that you know if if there's a chemical imbalance we should find out

what it is I'm firm believer in things like vitamins and supplements and and uh my my wife uses All of that kind of stuff and you know I've got more vitamin pills in my hotel room than you would even believe you know I have to label the tops of them so I know what order to take which ones on one day but you know but it's made me healthier and uh I think the problem is is that we're asking medical doctors to solve learning problems and and and they're trained a certain way so this is

the best choice that they have so it's not the doctor's fault it's part of it Is is that the school system has become too rigid yeah and the way the school systems are structured they're trying to get everybody to fit in a certain thing and when they don't fit that way they don't have alternatives for them they just just label the kids and no you do you don't right well that was the trouble with everything with all the psychological stuff they called him a depressive they called him a compulsive you know now they're doing it

with Post-traumatic stress oh you know PSD you know and and and post-traumatic stress syndrome and yet when I interview them I can find all these different things so I get 10 and you know and I get 10 different things you know I have some people that are reliving the past I have some people that are having anxiety attacks in public you know there it breaks down into all these different things so teaching them to think differently you know the difference Between whether I'd use hypnosis to control you know this or whether I'd teach them to

control the size of things things and switch things or whether I'd use post hypnotic suggestion with some you know that that there there isn't when you have a label then everybody should be treated so they start coming up with a chemical solution that can be used with a lot of people and it's like taking a shotgun and trying to kill an ant you know you know you're shooting Everything in sight but you're not getting to the perfect place to get the perfect result yeah and and with me I know it's timec consuming but with every

client I try to find the perfect thing to do with them to open up the vastest amount of future so that so that they have a good life so they're happy more of the time and and and let's face it not not everybody is academically inclined yeah and part of that is because we haven't made them like it we Haven't made it fun right and and we don't teach it in a way that's fun yeah and the structure of the system is like that uh when I wrote the book on Ed education it was to

help people who had fallen through the cracks so that their parents could educate them or their teachers could go this is what I need to do with these people that are falling through my cracks and instead of going it it's my fault or it's their fault or send them on to some other place and Drug the hell out of them you know you know at least they won't be so noisy in class you know and because teachers complained about having 30 students I have thousands sometimes and know you either get people's attentions or they're not

we may teach them about making a lesson plan but we don't really teach teachers how to how to be charismatic we don't teach them you know we don't teach them how to be funny we don't teach them how to capture people's Attention everybody had a couple of teachers that were really great and they listened to everything they did and and usually this is the best thing they like in school usually they like like oh I used to like mathematic why I had a great teacher and this is kind of a thing that I always heard

yeah we should be filming those guys instead of worrying about all the union roles I mean kovet showed us how much teachers want to go to school yeah totally that's Nice and Richard E by the way you wrote 34 books I had in mind that you you had 30 but you already wrote some more books in the last years and you got 34 books and I know a lot of people that always dream to to write some uh what do you say about to write a book what do you say about how this can be

maken well to start with you have to have something to say and you have to have an idea of who you're saying it to and uh of course I've written a lot of Books I've been alive for a long time I I I know a lot of old people that never read a book or wrote a book but but you know to them to them they didn't think of themselves as a writer yeah you know I I I talk to so many audiences and talk about so many things so often there's a point where I

just want to write it down and never say it again yeah and you know and and a lot of what I do is because something strikes me you know as as there being a need when I Wrote the book The 15-day plan to get smarter I thought you know well they got a two-e plan to diet and a two-e plan for this how about a plan that just makes us a little SM you know not a rocket scientist but you know how you know when I wrote get the life you want which is one of

the best sellers that I had uh that became a bestseller because it was real simple you could you could you know it was about getting over things getting through things and Getting to things and it just broke it down and it it it came out of the simplest idea I was an Ireland after my wife had died and I'm sitting at my house and I'm B trying to cook something something I pulled out a cookbook and I thought what a good idea this is you just look up what you want you don't have to read

every recipe just the recipe you need and I originally wanted to put thumb marks in the book but apparently the publisher said that was Too expensive so you could just you know you go oh I'm I'm having trouble with this you could look up this thing so I'm having trouble finishing stuff you look up that so you could you could just read what you needed to you know there beginning it tells you you know what the raw materials are the pictures get bigger and smaller and further away and closer and the question is what system

do you use to to get over a phobia you do this this and this what do you do to Get banish a bad memory what do you do to do this so I took a lot of the techniques that I had and I put them in there and I wrote a book so that somebody could just sit down and change their life and you know save themselves a lot of money when I wrote frogs into princes I wanted you know most of the NLP books were very academic you know I have a heavy academic background

and you know NL volume one you know has three of us that you know were so academic that You know it's almost like a sedative to read um and and I wanted to flip to the other side and make something that anybody could read and I got wonderful I used to have an address in there and people could send me letters and postcards and you know I got postcards from the Grand Canyon people saying I had a HDE phobia I was in therapy for eight years for 8.95 I'm now hanging over the edge of the

Grand Canyon you know that's cool that's a good thing you Know thank you very much and you know that to me to me I I felt at the time somebody had to expose what the field of psychotherapy and Psychiatry was lying to themselves about they they needed to know that that that what they were doing W wasn't real it wasn't addressing it wasn't problem solving it wasn't finding Solutions it wasn't improving itself no matter how many psychotherapies and how many names and theories that came up they were all Really doing the same thing they were

saying if you understand your problem it will magically disappear and it doesn't does and they tried it it would be lovely if it did but it just doesn't yeah and that you know there are techniques that work you don't have to live with a fear for the rest of your life you just don't have to if you can learn to fall in a river and become terrified of water in in 30 seconds then you should be able in five minutes to Put something else on top of it so you can go for a swim and

not worry about it and it doesn't require that you that you expose yourself and that you talk about your childhood and that you relive these traumas and that you beat pillows and all this humiliating stuff that that you just need to do something different and you know if somebody was I worked with severe schizophrenics and just pretended that they were right so that you know if they're not in touch with reality I Altered reality so that they were right and most of the time they came to their senses very quickly you know I did some

very dramatic things in those days I don't have to work so hard now you know I can get people to do it in their minds I don't have to put on big psychological events you know to get somebody out of the hospital big part of that was to convince the doctors that they could leave the hospital and that you know that if if you take somebody out of a Bad situation and they misbehave they'll end up back in a hospital MH and and if you Med at them the minute they stop taking the medication they'll

do something police look and go oh he was in a hospital bang off you go and I wanted to do something that would get them to understand that you know if you hear voices in your head that's fine but when you talk about them to other people you end up in a mental hospital you know and I mean I had somebody in a mental Hospital that once you know literally said to me she goes watch me scare the psychiatrist sress is standing right there while she does it and she turns around and she goes the

entities were talking about you last night and he goes there are no entities and she said they told me you'd say that you know and and I'm going This Woman's never going to get out of here if she keeps talking like this she's got to learn to shut up you know that she thought that there was Some value to this behavior and here she is incarcerated in a back ward in some terrible mental hospital instead of figuring out how to behave so that she could go out in the world get a job and function Milton's

whole cure thing was was get him out of the hospital you know have them get a job get married have children and send them a present sending a present yeah that was it that was the five-step process and you know everything he did was aimed in that Direction and he was very good at it but at least he had a direction most of them didn't and what I tried to instill in all the things that I did were some something that showed people look do this this happens and you know and I I took all

kinds of different cases from the most severe to things that aren't really a big deal uh you know and ultimately started working on optimizing people taking great athletes and making them better taking kids that you know Could spell but making them better spellers and better writers and all of the things that I've tried to do over the years are to maximize how well people do in the belief that the future is coming and we might as well do it well and and even fact that you know I believe that doesn't mean that bad stuff doesn't

happen didn't stop my wife from dying n LP is not going to solve every problem but when one comes along it's going to get you on the road to solving Your problems and that's what makes it valuable totally you yourself have been in a well wheelchair a few times right during you and you you will you heal yourself you use choice no definitely not I didn't go well today I think I'll ride around in a wheelchair no I I I had a stroke and damage from a blood clot in my leg that went to my

lungs and went in my brain and they had Mis dios I kept telling them I had a Blood C they kept telling me I didn't it shot radioactive stuff in my leg and looked and it was actually higher than the tourniquet so they didn't see it and it caused all kinds of problems and at one point uh the people in the hospital told me guy comes in and told me I would be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life and I just didn't believe him I'd have too many examples of people who have

told things by doctors that weren't true you Know as far as he knew that was true and if I had believed him I would have never tried yeah and I rehabed myself you know took took a while took a long time you know to get to the point I still don't walk exactly like a normal person uh my leg still hurts but you know but I go did go back and kiick the doctor in the ass I knocked his pen off the desk and when he bent over I kicked him in the ass and he

didn't even remember who I was and I kicked him in the ass and I Said see you were wrong and he went who are you and I told him what he had said to me and he goes that doesn't sound like me and I knocked his pen back on the floor it only took twice for him to stop doing it but uh you know there were other people in the hospital that told me that you can make a full recover they didn't even agree with each other and you know I just set my sights on

being able to walk again it was just to me this whole wheelchair thing was Terribly inconvenient you know I had places to go and people to be and uh had I listen to them I would have never tried it wasn't easy most of the rehab stuff they sent me to did not help uh but I figured out stuff that that did you know I started with toe lifts I figured if I could lift myself up on my toes that was the whole leg you know that eventually I would be able and I love the phonological

ambiguity of heel I'd get behind a wheelchair and put Somebody in it because it's more natural walking than with a walker it's natural and i' go heel toe heel toe I love the ambiguity heel toe heel toe and I'd walk as far as I could and then I'd take a cab back to my apartment and then I'd walk further than next day and just kept doing it and uh you know walked with the cane for a long time now I have a thing in my house full of canes that I don't use and uh that's

great you already doing better yeah well it's been a long Time you know it's we're now 20 years down the road but uh you know very incon very inconvenient you know I have a lot of empathy for people in wheelchairs not everybody's stood as good odds as I did of getting better and uh and and and you know there especially there are people from have been victimized in wars and you know all over the planet yeah you know a lot of soldiers that I've met you know and that you know I one of my favorite

things is they have a charity Where they build houses that are for people in wheelchairs so that stuff lowers down for them and things like that showers they can actually use and I think that's a wonderful charity because you know soldiers you know there there are there are lots of people that don't have the finances and can't earn money as easily yeah definitely and hopefully with all these internet jobs they can be influencers and and and have podcasts and you lots of jobs but you Know I mean I had one guy who had no arms

and no legs and climbed the halalas he wrote a book called called No Excuses whoa that's syy yeah really won a wrestling championship that all all kinds of stuff and you know uh to me you know there that it it's not about overcoming a handicap it's taking what you have and doing the best you can with it and you have to find out what it is you have you know giving up too soon is always a bad choice you know and you Know assuming that you know that you know I've had people that had you

know things happen where they had a stroke and they couldn't talk properly and and I read a book about melodic intonation therapy and started using it with somebody and Got Fabulous results you know and you know I just wonder you know how how how much people know about these things you know because they end up in a convalescent home where nobody knows what to do and they assume nothing can Be done and that's one of the good things about the internet you know you can look up things and find out what's there yeah that's true

that's definitely a lot of nonsense on there but there's a lot of good things as well and by the way Richard how can people find you on internet your seminars how people can be in one of your seminars can you still doing like seminars all around the world right well not all at the same time no may maybe just on the internet yeah yeah Well you know they can always go to Pure NLP docomo I'm where it started it is you know so I I will leave the the link below in the description of this

video you can find in the link so you can see you know there's always Richard vandercom that seems like an obvious place to look um but pure nlb.com does list what's coming up and you know this year I'm I'm going to Germany for four days and doing Something and I think I'm doing an evening in London and then I'm doing something in Texas for four days it's fairly Advanced for people that know some NLP and then we're always coming back and doing neuro hypnotic repatterning we do PRACK courses there are lots of people doing PRACK

courses all over the world and uh but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go to mine because it might not be the same it is yeah that that that's that's that's Totally true and you got the NLP Eternal to people can watch all your I don't have it NLP Eternal is a company that puts my stuff and other people's stuff up about NLP okay and uh you know I I I like the name be Eternal well I I think that I I think they did that because I'm getting old you they have you know I gave

all of my archives because unlike most people I started out in the recording business so I've recorded most of what I've done Over the years that's good and all of those audio tapes you know you know back when tape recorders were this big and videotapes when it were real toore and and beta recording and 3/4 inch recording and and you know cartridge recording and all this stuff all that stuff I gave to these people and they're going through it and digging up old stuff and new stuff you know I made a lot of movies and

TV shows over the years and slowly they're collecting that Stuff together but it's not just my stuff it's other stuff other people as well and you know making it so that people could stream this stuff used to be real expensive to buy a set of tapes and then then you know you have all these clunky tapes sitting in your living room you know and now you can down you you know you can stream stream something and watch it you know a lot of I you know I I I I made close to a 100 audio

tapes And and I think theyve got close to 50 of them up you know stuff on motivation you know the personal enhancement series which is probably the best thing I ever did um you know the nurse Sonic's personal enhancement series uh I at one point decided I just couldn't deal with the overwhelming number of clients so I wanted to make a set where I could knock most of it out you know I could get people you know to solve sense hypnosis tapes where I could get people to get Over this and there's you know a

thing about wealth management and you know think for more enthusiasm and excitement to supercharger and all of these different things and we wrote all this music for it we spent Denver clay and I spent close to seven months doing this wow you know in all of the spare time I was still teaching and doing other things but we spent a lot of time in the studio writing music we wrote all of the music most of it's synthetic you know it Sounds like regular music but most of it's synthetic and it is an NLP Eternal Che

yeah so you know and so instead of having all these CDs that get scratched and stuff you can you know you have a membership and you download it and can listen to it this is amazing for first time I saw it say whoa this is am because I got a lot gvgs at home I don't know where to walk then anymore I got my computer no gvg so I noticed that too on mine have all these things I can't look At anymore so I'm I'm afraid te technology has has an has Antiquated most of the

stuff I have a lot of archives on my wall you know things that you CD sets and DVD sets and all of these things and you know and I got nothing to watch them on and finally I I got a disc that will plug into my map Mac so I you know if I if I really need to again and uh and it's it's funny I just updated my Mac and now I have to find some adapter for the yeah I know They changed the darn plugs on the things so now I can't plug anything

into it anymore you needed the Dango they call dungo something like that oh yeah I have no idea why but that's it so richer I want to say thank you very very very much to be here with us thank you for all the work you develop thank you for help so much people directly and indirectly because you produce amazing trainers I have been in last days with the trainers they are They are from all around the world we got from Switzerland from Austria from Germany from Japan from many placees and you can really delivery you

can teach people to do that and people can teach other persons and this just make the world much better so I'm pretty pretty happy to to you create all that you did everything well thank you for having me on your podcast here in this beautiful little room and for getting me out of the hotel I've been stuck in hotel jail Teaching the seminar it was kind of nice to go out and get some actual Sunshine a lot of some so thank you bye-bye [Music] [Music] Jing