Afghanistan's Taliban government has formerly adopted a set of morality laws among other rules it requires women to cover their faces and man to grow their beard but many argue it's a violation of personal freedoms so what are the longterm implications of this law this is Inside Story hello welcome to the program I am Hashim when the Taliban sweep back into Power three years ago it took over a country in which the civil and political rights of Afghans were enshrined in the Constitution but since then many of those rights have been eroded especially for women and girls now Taliban officials have published a new set of morality laws which will in their words PR OTE virtue and prevent Vice the new laws range from requiring women to cover their faces and men to grow beers to Banning music in Cars it comes at a time when the Afghan economy is in dire situation malnutrition rates are at a record highs and the Health Care system is nearing collapse so will this latest Crackdown further isolate the Taliban and what impact will it have on the lives of millions of Afghans who are already struggling to survive plenty to discuss but first this report from Victoria gatm Fighters and supporters of the Taliban which now calls itself the Islamic Emirate celebrating 3 years in power days later the government issued new laws designed to in its words combat Vice and promote virtue according to the new rules which cover all aspects of Afghan Society men must grow beards music is band as is the publication of images of living things and women are not allowed to sing recite read aloud in public they are required to cover their faces Al jazer has spoken to an Afghan woman who wants to remain anonymous she protests against the Taliban by spray painting images of the now banned Afghan national flag onto buildings every day they strip away our dignity identity and even our existence as human beings and the word remains silent in the face of this Collective Massacre of women's rights the Taliban has Consolidated its power since retaking control in August 2021 girls and women have already been banned from secondary and higher education and most women are not allowed to work the UN says the Taliban has erased Afghan women from public Life 3 years ago uh a woman in Afghanistan could technically decide to run for president now she may not even be able to decide went to go and buy groceries now I'm not saying that 3 years ago it was perfect it was not perfect but it wasn't this while the overall security situation has improved the economy has shrunk by nearly 27% since the Taliban takeover International funding which previously covered more than half of public spending has been cut off Millions more Afghans now live in poverty with more than 6 million internally displaced there is no work in our country and many people are unemployed they are forced to migrate to Iran and Pakistan if there were good job opportunities in our country no one would want to leave the Taliban says it's trying to resurrect an economy from scratch but needs International Help the introduction of morality laws which many rights groups argue violate the personal freedoms of Afghans makes the Taliban government's struggle for Global recognition even less likely to succeed Victoria gon B Al jazer for Inside Story we'll bring in our panel in just a moment but first let's speak to Wed karab he's human rights activist and political anal based in the Afghan Capital cabul wed what was your first reaction to the new morality laws that were introduced in Afghanistan uh hi thanks for having me here uh well when I first heard about this on Wednesday so I've just shocked that U uh because I'm living here in kobal Afghanistan I brought up here I know the culture My Religion my values so unfortunately it is misinterpreted it and we um the basic thing the most important thing in here is the right interpretation of our religion so there were some rules for example playing of music or band and the the the men are not allowed to shave their beers and the driver are not drivers are not allowed to uh transport the uh uh women uh without Guardian so uh the the most important thing is not with playing uh the music the content is important according to our religion and values the content is encouraging people to a wrong path so it would be problematic okay there are good uh singers so in in our legend that they are famous like some youu but they they have lyrics relics with music it it doesn't have problem so they are just implementing the harsh version of a religion which is not in real and no religion and also two million people have before we go into that I would just like to ask you how is it how is this new law going to affect your life and the lives of millions of young Afghans like yourself it will affect not only my life but many other Afghans uh especially um the women because two million people have been killed in Soviet occupation and even over 20 years war in Afghanistan thousands have been killed so their brothers and husbands they they wounded and killed so they are women they are alone they are just running their home they're not allowed to work they're not allowed to educate uh so they're compelled to go to hospital to any any other places and they don't have Garden so what they should do so they are just putting many restrictions and just day by day at first when they came they took power we we were hopeful that that the situation was a little bit normal but in a passes of time they're just putting restrictions and uh I'm not sure that by putting these restrictions the United Nations will will easily recognize this government so uh I want from this government to change the rules and regulations to um reopen the schools and the restrictions for women especially what do what do you think will be the reaction of the Afghan people do you think that they will resist this law and just they will continue living their own lives or do you think that life is going to be extremely difficult for people in the future against the backdrop of these new morality laws the basic problem here in Afghanistan is the lower level of Education that people are not well educated so if the PE majority is not educated they won't raise their voice against the uh laws which is not acceptable um for uh men and women in Afghanistan the second um problem is the fear so they are afraid of the reaction of the government that if they raise their voice if they react so they will be punished uh so therefore uh they are just silent and they just bear these U problems but as Afghan as as a Muslim I raise my voice everywhere anytime because it's my responsibility I am educated and I will educate till I'm alive so I know that the Real Islam and the real right of in our individuals that they should men and women are equal in our religion so they have the right to educate to work social rights um every right is in uh in common and it's equal between men and women but they are not identical let's bring in our gu in California Mariam slan a member of Afghanistan's parliament in Exile and for member of Afghan peace War an NGO that monitors the situation in Afghanistan in Glennwood Maryland bahad jalali assistant teaching professor at Loa University Maryland where she researches Afghan modern history and women's rights in Berlin morcel W an education and women's rights Advocate and law student in Germany welcome to the program Mariam what was your first reaction when you heard about these new laws implemented in Afghanistan the government is saying what we're doing is absolutely right legitimate because this is in line with the interpretation of Islamic Shar I was heartbroken but I wasn't shocked uh why is anyone shocked there is no such thing as a Taliban 2. 0 which the world has tried to sell us for the last uh few years um it's as if uh you would try to Rebrand the Nazis or the KKK and say that you know what they've changed uh the Taliban proved themselves in the '90s and now we seeing who they are uh and they and slowly their mask is coming up so it's no surprise to me I'm heartbroken for my sisters though but what do you think uh they are coming back to these morality laws could this be an indication that it's the very hawkish members of the Taliban establishment taking over and telling the International Community reverting back to the norm um well um Mariam covered um many good points of course I'm also uh uh sad but not shocked uh from I'm a historian so I would like to uh address this from a historical perspective U most importantly I want to emphasize that what the Taliban are doing Taliban 1. 0 2.
0 whatever you want to call it in '90s and today has nothing to do with Afghan culture Afghan Customs or Afghan history historically uh there have been many reform periods led by modernist Elites Afghan L modernism by led by Afghans for Afghans and historically Afghan governments have had a very hands-off approach when it comes to interfering in people's personal lives especially the rights of women it's been a very sensitive area um so uh I think the most important message that I want to get across is that this has nothing to do with Afghan culture and unfortunately there have been some efforts to label the Taliban and their Drconian decrees as somehow embedded in Afghan culture and it's absolutely not and their radical leaders they're hawkish leaders they're simply doing the bidding of their sponsors which they've always been doing which is to race Afghan history and attack Afghanistan's cultural heritage so really to make Afghanistan Disappear by you know just you know killing the population slowly Morel so women will have to be F fully covered they will have to have male Guardians men should abstain everybody should abstain from listening to music uh weddings will have to be pretty much controlled personal freedoms will have to be controlled uh there will be warnings to people and if they don't abide by the rules by the rules they will have to face uh courts in the future how do you see your Afghanistan in the upcoming years well I think that's that's very distressing and alarming I don't know they started first with the very little steps of banning women their rights to education and now they're silencing their voices in public I don't know how far this will go and then I don't think it could get any worse than this but I could imagine um a future for Afghanistan where there is no home for people who have a bit of positivity optimism or any any kind of uh good intention towards the country that will not look like a good country and that will not look like a civilized society at any point Mariam there is a a sense within the Taliban that what with what they are doing is to preserve the piety of the Muslim umah and Muslims particularly in Afghanistan but when you look at the Afghan Society itself and the different people ethnic groups North West East totally embracing different culture embracing their own diversity what does it mean for Afghanistan are we likely to move towards a one mindset which is going to be now dictated by the Taliban for as long as it takes well you hit a very important Point um right now and I have to go back to what Bahar said this isn't a reflection of Afghan culture this isn't our identity um and Afghanistan and the word afan is the definition is a Melting Pot of all of these beautiful cultures and languages and religions we have Afghan Jews we have Afghan uh atheists we have Afghan Hindus and siks and Shia and sunnis we have different sects uh and what's happening is that the Taliban have been trying to rule by fear they want to make a North Korea and Islamic North Korea uh where we're where we're located um and and it's it's scary because this is going to go back into the Middle East you're going to see this in Islamic Nations where uh this new version of Islam that was made uh a certain country a neighboring country of Afghanistan uh and being forced Upon Our People uh is gaining traction is this the real version of Islam we really have to question that and and hopefully the world stands up and voices this because the Afghan people are living at the point of a gun uh we're not going to hear the truth of what's Happening until we see some Human Rights Watch we until we see some Amnesty International until we see some un on the ground uh making a safe space for the Afghan Nation to speak what the truth is and this is not our people this is not our culture Baha this strict interpretation of the Islamic Sharia law has been abandoned across many many countries in the Muslim world to the point where it's seen as now completely irrelevant but for the Taliban this is very important to preserve the identity why do you think they're doing this is it for purely political motive to tell the International Community there is Taliban and this is the four way of life for us uh yes so I I would like to add that um there is no question that this is not Islam I teach of course of women and gender in the Middle East and uh even the prophet of Islam was married to divorce women most of his wives had been married before under when the Taliban came to power they even issued decrees that they rescinded divorce decrees that were granted under the Republic the taliban's imposition of these Drconian decrees of course anyone with a very shallow uh education and Islam knows that things that right to education uh female property ownership uh uh the right to divorce uh um the right to have an early abortion are all embedded in Sharia um so of course it has nothing to do with Islam um it's a purely political purely strategic um and of course it goes all the way back to the long IR irredentist dispute between Afghan and Pakistan uh where you know we all know that the Taliban are a proxy force of Pakistan and basically trying to have that strategic depth and but going further now not just having strategic depth but really erasing Afghanistan making it a colony and doing so in the most uh you know uh draconian ways and I do think that what your earlier guest said is because many people in Afghanistan are not educated about their rights Not educated about their Islamic rights they want to spin this Islamic it's absolutely not and any rudimentary reading of Islam will tell you that we've been in touch with senior Taliban officials to join the uh the show but they said they declined to take part and moral this is a critical moment for the Taliban themselves because they were hoping to see some sort of international consensus about their Authority as a legitimate government in Afghanistan but the International Community has been saying that will not happen unless you reverse the key decision that you made about uh girls education you are this new law to it the International Community is furious do you think that this could just delay any hope for the Afghan people to have a better life against the backdrop of the extremely difficult econ omic situation of course I think um I especially came came from from um this country I went I migrated to Germany for the for the hope that I will be returning to this country with a handful of something academics and uh with the Hope to come back but the prospect of returning homes feels increasingly remote now the Afghanistan that existed before um seems to be Vanishing and the fear is that um by that no time especially women can return there will be a little bit resemblance to the life that once was um I don't think there is there's any hope any any source of hope that is remaining for for people in here and any kind of hope for people who are in Afghanistan to stay in that country Mariam for at least I mean for for the last few decades we've seen women very active in society thriving artists entrepreneurs teachers professors doctors who decided to stick around to help the poor and the needy and those people and those ladies in particular will face uncertain times now if you add to this the ban which has been imposed on girls education the UNESCO has been saying that the biggest threat that a generation of Afghan women will face where does it leave women in Afghanistan well women in Afghanistan have no future they don't even have a right to dream at this point we came from a place where we had the highest percentage one of the highest percentages of female uh Parliament members in in Afghan Parliament our un Ambassador was a woman uh our US ambassador was a woman we had uh ministers we had artists as you said um and at this point women have don't they can't even complain uh the the world is expecting Afghan women to stand up and and voice their complaints and fight the Taliban when they've been completely abandoned we we have to remember that this was not a one a war that was won by the Taliban through fighting soldiers face to face no it was gifted to the Taliban by the United States uh on a on a silver platter uh the way that the that Afghanistan crumbled was within weeks and we saw that and at this point um it it the responsibility falls on the global Community to make a safe space for women to be able to speak women this is not just a women's rights issue this is over 20 million women uh this is a human rights issue and is the largest human rights issue in the entire world so I I pray that this show and our voices get Amplified and the world gathers and every woman on this planet gathers and raises their voice for the most oppressed population on the planet Baha the United Nations investigate human rights investigator Richard Bennett has been banned access to Afghanistan now you've started a protest online give us a sense of uh how people are reacting to the to your own outcry about the need to improve the lives of women in Afghanistan uh so I believe you're referring to the campaign that uh I started online 2021 well I think the reason why it received global widespread Global media coverage is because many Afghans shared my sentiments that when the Taliban came out with this neverbe seen dress code for Afghan women it wasn't just an attack on their rights it was an attack on Afghan identity Afghan culture Afghan history it was an existential threat um and unfortunately the reason why the Talib have been emboldened to issue these Drconian decrees is because to a significant extent they have been normalized by the International Community uh meeting but in glitzy forums and red carpet treatment they why didn't they meet with them behind closed doors without giving them all this publicity normalizing them you've got Western tourists traveling to Afghanistan taking selfies and posting it on Instagram saying hey I met with the Taliban so I do think that like miam said the International Community has been very you know uh enablers of this regime and with that you know uh Western kind of de facto recognition de facto leg legitimacy they have been emboldened to impose and the ultimate victims are Afghan people especially Afghan women Mora what do you think the International Community should do about the new morality laws well I think um we we need some very uh critic actions from the national International legal bodies including the United Nations and international criminal Court to address the human rights violation to to recognize the gender aparti there the the how terrifying it could get and how much uh how much they could do something about it I don't exactly know now what they could do but the only thing that I have right now in mind that not recognizing Taliban of course not forming any kind of diplomatic relationship relations with them that is going on right now in Doha and in most of the countries and uh the other will be um for the the United Nation and the criminal court to do something about it maram we're talking about depriving 1. 4 million girls of the right to education but if you add to it the figures from 2021 we're talking about almost 2 five million uh girls who were school age girls who were denied the right to education is this something that irrespective of what happens politically today tomorrow or in 10 15 20 days 20 years from now we'll have profound repercussions on The Afghan Society itself well um why we have to question why the Taliban are are stopping women from from going to school and we've we've had many discussions about this and it always comes back to one point uh an educated mother would never allow their their son or daughter to be uh misused in the name of some political agenda that was made in Pakistan uh so so what's going to happen um there's going to be an influx in extremism there's going to an influx in terrorism uh Afghanistan right now is is a black Zone anything can happen there people are coming in from all over the world there's no monitoring happening no one knows who's there we do know Afghans on the ground do know but there's no safe way for them to voice what's going on so uh there's not just Afghan repercussions there's not cultural repercussions and religious repercussions but there's also Global implications that can happen out of this as well and we really need to keep an eye on this and raise our voices bah you were talking earlier about uh International Community in a way or another EMB Bolding the the the Taliban they met with them with the hope to convince them to make some concessions it doesn't seem to have helped at all but do you think that the International Community has will have any sort of political leverage on the Taliban given the circumstances now the Taliban themselves when you talk to them they say you know what we are the ones who control the country there's no one who has the guts whatsoever to say that they can challenge Us in the near future and therefore they believe that this is a genuine right for them to do whatever they want to do in Afghanistan uh well I think that it goes without saying that the International Community has significant political leverage but it has to demonstrate the will to uh uh um exert it and implement it and one of the few examples that I gave a few moments ago is why are they meeting with the Taliban and giving them red carpet treatment at very high-profile Gatherings prestigious uh uh Global platforms red carpet treatment you know uh all this publicity photo ops right so at the very minimum they can stop meeting with the Taliban publicly meet with them behind closed doors give them firm automate you know Alternatives I mean they're so bold now that they're even Banning the UN Human Rights reporter Richard Bennett from the country I mean that's the extent that they've been emboldened so I do think it's time for the International Community to change tax and to really stop this defacto recognition and instead of just giving feeble and impotent statements about Taliban human rights violations to actually show some tangible action with regards to dealing with them and the Taliban are really just you know they're they're they may they may talk big and have bravado but I think that once they're dealt with firmly uh they will um they can easily uh uh you know be uh you know U you know reduced to submission or you know you know um completely out of the picture I see thank you I really I appreciate your Insight unfortunately we're running out of time butam Jal I really appreciate your Insight and I promise you that we will definitely revisit this story again and again in the near future and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al. com for further discussion go to our Facebook page that's facebook.
