Francis Kéré & Minik Rosing: Rethinking Resources - How To Do More With Less

[Music] we have quite a another treat for you to International thinkers and contributors to the debate on on really many things Francis Carey and Minnie grossing and the headline that they have had for their conversation for their talk here is how to do more with less how to use and reuse resources far better How can we get from linearity to circularity how can we move from an exploitative Paradigm to a restorative Paradigm in short how to bring the build environment back inside the planetary boundaries why the reality is that we still need a lot of

new buildings this November we actually surpassed the 8 billion Milestone 8 billion inhabitants on Earth 8 billion inhabitants and still growing On a confined Planet so therefore the key question how to do far how to do more with less so let me invite here to the stage so that you can see how I guess Francis correct and mini cruising [Applause] Architects last year's awarded the pritzker prize for architecture I understand that it's not just any price so congratulations also with that Mr career [Applause] Is your native country but you're also based in Berlin I understand

and Francis Quire has a strong emphasis on activating local knowledge and local resources and a key word to him and his team is diversity both in the team but also in the ways things are designed so we will hear more about that in just 30 seconds our other guests here on stage is mini Crossing his roots are among other things greenlandic Minik is also a professor of geology at University Copenhagen University and just to show you sort of the breadth of of that man's sort of competences it was actually Monique rosing who found out that

no the life did not emerge on Earth 3.5 billion years ago but 3.8 billion years ago so he's normally working on a different time scale compared to what we are talking about here but um I also know Munich that you are right now very much involved in a project on how to develop and Export Glacier Rock flower so you see if there's some personalities with quite a span of insights we are really Keen to hear how you will have a conversation on how together and collectively we can move towards a more sustainable resource Paradigm the

first to give his keynote will be Francis career and we will be listening so you have the flow Foreign [Applause] [Music] so thank you very much for your kind words and the team in Copenhagen and their friend from around the world thank you so much you did a great work it is um great to see so many many friends and to the many friends I have to say to you what a great honor it is for me to be speaking to you today you know Um I share the same battle the same struggles but the

same hopes like all of you here in our fight to create architecture to shape people's dreams you know to inspire people and sometimes to make communities happy you know my way to architecture it's unconventional basically As a kid I sat in a place like uh you see here in the classroom with more than 100 other kids it was very dark inside and also hot but you will be sitting in a bench and it will be wobbling sometimes like this our nails will pop out and just hide your bottom you know for the hit I had

nothing to do and the light also but The nails on my bottom I didn't want to accept so I want to volunteer in a carpentry that was between my my home and the school to eventually learn how to make better benches by watching him doing it or at least to fix them because I didn't want to accept and he let me create some boxes every time when I'm coming from school And my guest family let me do I will go and observe and try to work and at school I was happy to earn a scholarship

so I decided to become a good Carpenter uh to be able to do more after training vocational training in a city far from my place five uh five years long I become a carpenter I went to wagadugu the capital city Looking for a job and there I realized the German government was looking for candidate to give a scholarship to go to Germany and to become activists in the field of carpentry good work so because carpentry in Burkina Faso is underdeveloped we have no wood so from the elite it was not attractive So I got this

scholarship I went to Germany and after 18 months I become an activist you know for development ad okay I have a big family after 18 months in Germany I realized if I go back being in this paradise and I don't bring a lot of gift this is my dad so I went back to those that brought me to Germany and say you know and now I'm a good Carpenter Could you teach me how to lay a bricks and how to draw a building so if I go home I can't build a house I make the

worlds by myself I can put a roof in undo the furniture so this is what I want okay I was told this is impossible Mr Kerry if you want to do that you have to become an architect And that four you need a high school degree which I didn't have at that time oh what to do go back with no present or fight to find another solution so ask how can I go to school and do the scholarship I was almost 19. this is impossible in Germany you have past the year to go to school

but that is a evening School You could go for a guild where you could just do your degree do you collect I went in from 6 pm to 11 pm I would go to classes and the next day I had free time I went to work during the day to earn money for myself and for my big family in Africa after five years I had a scholarship So I started to study architecture in teu Berlin I was 30 years old so don't say me that it's too late to become an architect so so I started

to study after two years I know how to draw a building so I just wanted to stop and go home and some professors were saying no no no no no no it is more you have to do more what I don't need more there is no architect in Burkina Faso That will hire me that was true you know so I went back home after two and a half years architectural study and they decided to build the school that would have been my presence for my family because she is very big and that is the beginning

of my career as an architect I went back to gando trying to convince my people That we could build a school by ourselves there was no school in the village and then again the battle start I have to convince my family to use clay and you know in my place Clay is the material for poor people for good reasons you have to do a lot of repairs that's why people rejected you know they're right and especially I was in Germany where they build these super buildings with glass The build the supercars and I came back

and said to my people we should use mud you know it doesn't fit doesn't work but it was my community I thought and we was able to really convince everyone we men and men everyone was craving rocks and Minik will be happy to see this because he's gonna show us a rock one of these could be a rock I wanted to use these to create a foundation a basement and I wanted to introduce new technique using clay you know compact Clay blocks which was Modern for my people to look fancy it's not glass it's not

concrete but it is good and with that I succeeded in building this school which is still standing and need no repairs that was a miracle for my people it is bright it has a lot of light and for my people it was also beautiful but not the magic because they contributed to bearded let's be honest they build it And I was the teacher and the architect and the supervisor and the head worker at the same time and that is how it it goes I was even able to introduce so-called primitive techniques to a construct to

a building a school building which in my home is considered to be something French very modern and needed to be made of concrete and whatever great material that we didn't have and it was a battle Trying testing testing so first to myself to understand that I understand what I was going to do I will be able to do it and also to prove to my people that is going to stand and not collapse so this has been my career my life so those of you dear friends who trying to get me somewhere sometimes if I

don't I can't you have to know I'm always in the mission that is keeping me a way to join you and share my enthusiasm to you so we Test and we apply and people trust and the buildings are growing and so we needed a place to store books because we had more a student and then I had an idea to create a place where you have openings ventilation but using a daily object that my people use very well we cut them get them carry them to create the sort of ceiling and with that we put

a cover of course on the top and then that is inside you have light and a natural Ventilation and so you could store books is not elaborating so we had no resources to do that of course today I may have that but it's to store books for the those kids that cannot afford because they're poor to get it and even the corner where you could sit and read and discuss is what we created and that is my Village today you see the campus the school is green it is a paradise for everyone it's an oasis

if you see the rest of the country That is dry and then on the lower part you have a high school now that is still growing and I still need to work a lot planting trees this way using pots to put water so so-called drop technology a la Francis you know yeah get a pot it is there if it's break people bring to another one just put water the system is working no plastic and I cannot show it to you today with the leftover I am creating amazing floors I'm telling you guys so it is

Circular I even didn't know the word circular for me it was resource I just use it so and that is the campus trying to put trees and care it doesn't take long dear friends people start to ask me to do their project and so very quick in this project I was able to do put things together like here like to read you get it and you extract it like the way you see it and then we cut it it become modern no one will contest because with The cut it perfect so you could just put

them together and then wood locally available would for a facade and getting always people be involved even women in the construction site you know this way and they help do and create our buildings and with the leftover we're making chairs and sitting opportunities for kids you know and so suddenly you realize from a high school building you have a campus it has A university and the client call it bit I almost said MIT yeah we want also to have the great things in these leading countries so we created our MIT in Burkina Faso so we

name it bit [Applause] and so from gando and so from gando from this little place I certainly saw myself invited to do a pavilion for hiking on visitor in Montana okay Montana okay it's the U.S they're rich they have everything um okay they want me to do oh it's cool let's go and do it and I was impressed by the available of wood and then collect them and of course didn't want to show you characters but there was an idea to create a sort of a modular system and you could just put them together the

winter can be very hard in Montana so the summer time and then you created a pavilion for visitor That is standing could we understand the hard winter then in the summer there was a proposed I love to see this visitor running is a son of a good friend of mine is Noah the son of Ivan ban running but then tired some another one is resting we didn't want to put um adul but that is the one you could create with our profession and it's Working very well and you could play concert so this client is

so overwhelmed by these ideas of using locally available wood even in Montana to create the structure for their visitor that are sponsored so the money is gone by the way the sponsored some of my work in Ghana with a three-quarter of a million because they were so inspired by the structure you know that is what you can do you know if you really believe in in using what is abundant to create Structure so it went through and with wood depending where I am if you have to do a serpentine Pavilion it is London these people

are rich in terms of technology in terms of knowledge so why don't we make it so sophisticated I'll go is look like an UFO but if you go I use massive wood and to let this appear light you know like textiles African textile of course it could be Danish textile but A hard African textile as an example and that one we created no matter where I am I'm trying to see how can I use a given material in a very different way to make a difference and then I will go back to my place here

in Leo Burkina Faso was given a job to create the clinic but I want to talk about housing housing for doctors I made little little boxes the size of a daily housing in Burkina Faso is not housing Model A La Elementals from aravena Faso Very simple very clear and then people will visit and see aha this is a nice size I can replicate it and that is my idea how I work always trying to find way how to share knowledge and then inside is clean and people realize it's comfortable and they're looking to have it

so from that approach it grow that now I see myself being invited to be involved in creating a Parliament House in Benin I get Inspired by the way people gathered together but also by the tree itself to create the structure so like a giant structure from the little school in Burkina Faso creating representative houses for countries for Nations um that what you see is under construction dear friends is another completely other experience to do so but I enjoy it and then I realized I'm a Real Carpenter even with concrete I'm starting to weave to release

quantity of material being smart to create this project I got this picture from an architect who is helping me until just with this work Francis it is emotional when they took this structure out all the workers more than one thousand people were saying wow we didn't know that we're creating something like that it is thin but it is Inspiring and that is what inspired me so now you ask me what is next with the work that I'm doing really the so-called Elite or let's say those that can afford started to say wow we have to

ask him if he could do our housing project with the same material with the same technique you know and this is because of your recognition to my work And potentially for sure for the awards people now oh there is another way then the other one that we knew and that way they start to ask we're doing housing or people from Africa will say you know Francis I made my wealth in a given country I'm asking you to design a cultural center for my community they don't wait for our government to do that they just want

to put the money and create it so that is The the turn and if you know how big the continent is and what is expectation about population if you realize a little action like how I started is generating something that is very different and this way we will be able to create a lot for the continent and I have a big big team in Burkina Faso and with this team hey guys believe me in less than 100 years we're going to build it entirely Africa thank you very much [Applause] thank you [Music] excellent and now

many coursing [Applause] thank you very much there's an awful lot of you out there and just me up here so I decided to bring a friend and it can help me with my presentation I try to do it relatively brief because I have only a very few things to that I Want to address but you are of course all dealing with architecture and building stuff and I think the theme of this of this conference is how we can lower the imprint or the footprint of what we do but I think I will try to maybe

impress you that it is actually a common thing for all life to be the footprint on Earth and our goal is to live the most beautiful footprint that we can but let me just try to start it some kind of beginning So life is of course unique to Earth as far as we know but one thing that characterized life aside from anything else is that is always out of equilibrium with its surroundings so life is something that is always fighting some surroundings around it and that means that all life has always been looking for a

home all life has always needed some place to live and I brought this rock because it's it's a spectacular rock it has a very beautiful Structure I'm sure at the back seat down there you will enjoy it very much it has this very fine layering but this rock about maybe 20 centimeters high is actually a building it was made by bacteria a billion years ago and I would like to remind you of building this is a thousand million years ago so it's a very old building and it's still standing and and it's still with us

scale to the size of the organism who built it it Would be a high rise 40 kilometers high so it's a very impressive building and it's only part of the building that was originally there and consists of small pieces of fragments of stone that are cemented together with a cement of carbonate like you do with bricks today even mortar so it's a very old tradition that we are carrying on with today still so I think that this is a good example that all living organisms have been been Creating homes for themselves so they protect themselves

from the environment this has been going on for about 3.8 billion years where that somebody have been affecting the environment and building homes for itself and also of course leaving a footprint today we sit in here and breathe the atmosphere we think that the atmosphere is a very typical aspect of our planet something that characterize it but the atmosphere with weird breathing is actually a Synthetic product made by the life on earth and the radiation balance will give us the temperature is maintained by living organisms something that we are obviously ourselves now trying to to

to to to to to mess up to some some extent anyway about maybe 500 million years ago when this rock was already half billion years old the first organisms uh just decided that it could actually build real structures Around themselves that were manufactured to just Host this particular one our organism so that is what we know as sales today or skeletons that we have around many more advanced organisms like animals all almost all organisms have cells that are made out of something that contains a lot of carbon so building a house is interfering with the

carbon cycle and if you look at the Earth from space today for instance we can see the Great Barrier Reef of the coast of Australia which is of course an enormous amount of carbonate and other carbon carbon that is stored in this fantastic structure that is in there so that is kind of the Prototype of a very big row house with organisms spreading for maybe a thousand kilometers and also as Francisco very nicely today we use wood for instance also for dwellings many organisms use wood but again everything we do for making houses Is somehow

interfering with the carbon cycle so where's this leading well it's leading to the point I think that regardless of what we do and what we think our Destiny as living organism is to interfere with our environment there's no way we cannot spend resources in what we do and all organisms again through all these years have done it and as you can see here they left a footprint that can Be seen to this day and I think much of the discussion you hear in today's discussion about architecture any other kind of interference you have with the

environment and that is that we should leave a smaller footprint as possible preferably none at all and we should not spend anything we should spend less and so forth which is of course true we shouldn't be wasteful we should be aware of the impact of what we do but the illusion that we can do anything without Leaving a footprint and that anybody before us have ever left the Earth without leaving a footprint that is standing still a billion years later is is completely unrealistic so I think that in my sense it's easy for me to

say because I'm not an architect I'm not even doing anything in relation to architecture other than living in a house but one thing that that I have observed I think is that oftentimes today Architecture as many other Sciences is reactive it is it is trying to see itself as an agent against a problem in the world which is good it's nice it's everything it's fine by that but I think also we should all be better than just being a solution to a problem we should create something better for the future and I think that I

think to me I think that getting building materials that have less impact impact on climate and so forth that's the engineers they're Good at that but as Architects you should have optimize on doing something that is more beautiful than was there before because we are going to leave a footprint and I would say we even go as far as saying we shouldn't opt to use less necessarily sometimes it may be better to use just a little bit more to make it so much better that the footprint believe is so much nicer and so much more

beautiful and will provide for people to give a better oil to the Future Generations [Applause] foreign so I think the Brave the brave architecture of of of this day and age should be the one that transgresses the solution solving the problem-solving mode and goes into the ambition of creating something truly beautiful and that is leave a footprint that stands on Earth as long as possible as as long as it's beautiful in as long as it adds to The quality of everything and I think I will challenge all of you too I know in Architects I've

been enough close to architecture to know that there's a concept called the built environment which is I guess meaning houses and stuff like that but anyway I'll challenge you to take a satellite photo or go out in the mountain or somewhere anywhere on Earth and look around and I'll give you you know I'll give you this rock if anyone you come back with a Photo of something that's not a built environment everything we see is a built environment and something lives in something everywhere the mountain we have the White Cliffs of Dover are buildings and

buildings and buildings of houses of small algae so everything we see is a built environment and again as humans we should be a beautiful built environment for the future so I think I'll stop here and go on to the discussion with Francis [Applause] thank you so much everything is a built environment if I heard you right if we should see things through that lens to an excellent presentations and now we have time for a conversation up here um Francisco your personal story that you start with also shows a fascinating in a way very simple way

into architecture and what you present is sort of it's not rocket science you could also Argue it's common sense and I think many in the room would say yes of course this is how we should do it but then we have Hamas industry and production and the scale of everything and the experience with which a lot of things have to happen how are you coping with this dilemma in your practice and in your thinking now it's not an easy task but I have to say working the way I'm doing is not Easy neither working with

Community is not easy so that's why the community actions are limited to my Village but if we goes out we're recruiting people of course we're training people is a is an easy way but it's time consuming um but I'll also do what my colleagues are doing here it's an experience that I'm also going through soon I will have two two to three schools in Germany that are coming out I went through many many struggles because the industry because Of norms and all of these implications that are needed to be sourced before you do like my

latest project that I'm doing in Germany is a vertical kindergarten five-story with the sky for the kids to go and play and I wanted to have it completely out of our wood even the call um and that is in Munich can you imagine the struggle I have is my own student will pass through my building and then go to the Mensa and how do you work in that situation you have the norm and you Want to be inspiring and normal and natural and that is the battle that is so how do you change it or

overcome it yeah a lot of work proven trying to do tests uh that is going to work but uh um it is not an easy task at all but we cannot give up if we give up because the the industry want to have a certain way of doing things so everything is going to look the same as everywhere in the world do we want that but now I mentioned that Monique Sometimes as a geologist is working on a different time scale but sometimes when we say oh before 2030 2014 2050 we need to do this

and that because of sustainability and yes you're doing something in the educational field and you show the examples yesterday mentioned you have to show the attractiveness of other kind of ways of doing things but else how do you as a society one thing is your Individual practice but how do you see us as Society how do you see in Pokemon that people can actually live up to this ideal yeah no I mean we have to be careful and not to be pulled down we have to be positive um we're gonna keep building no matter what

it is what will be in the world but what we should avoid is polarization you know um so in Burkina Faso or many places in Africa where I'm working you have just people that are looking forward to have structures housing that are inspiring them that will give them a chance to lead a good life with their families the same it is in the west okay we have a climatical difference and sometimes resources are you know need to be sources in a different way but in the same battle what we should do is to learn from

each other and to try not to say them and we And then those but just to avoid polarizing um and learn from everything we commit and to try to create space for or try to care for human being for ourselves you not to this message and polarization meaning sorry you're not to the message on polarization no I I I I actually do and I think we see it all over and I think that what you realize is of course that There's a number of common threads to what what is attractive to people and what makes

people feel comfortable and so forth and you will find that everywhere I I think and I think what makes a difference between different places is the context so what you are advocating is that you use the context you are in to create actually something that serves the same function more or less but it would look different because the context is different you have the Materials you have the Red Soils the tropical soils they have these properties we have different Clays here that need different treatment and so forth but in the empty objective is in the

same and I would say even that those bacteria that build that thing their objective was the same also they want to be with their friends in a nice protected place and have good infrastructure for transporting their stuff so so I think that that then no I Agree and I also agree very much with what you said that you can't teach people stuff you have to inspire people and then they'll themselves so you need I think you you make buildings that could make Arnold Schwarzenegger cry because they're so beautiful and and that is exactly what you

need that will that will inspire others to do to do to do so too but this context as we also saw it here Is it true that people always aspire sort of true to their context and their identity their geography isn't one of the problems that people aspire to American lifestyle or some other lifestyle a different consumption lifestyle which is somehow detached from this ideal of staying true to your own geographical and cultural context no I mean if we consider the climate it is important to try to work and create A building that fit within

the context it means that provide comfort um some people may be inspired by morals so being in Africa by models that you see in the west but you have to adapt it it is not about saying it should be a different concept because it has to be but a concept that is adapting the way that it can serve people I am inspired by architecture here I didn't show you great example that I'm working on that will come a lot Of projects including museums but where I I was able to use material because I convinced they

fit the best um and so the energy should be an issue if you build in Burkina Faso that is seen as one of the poorest country in the world and you try to take a Nordic model and you apply it one by one it is not working same like these well ventilated open structure cannot work here so we have to always adapt ourselves and I think that is so Important to create comfort for the people that is sort of to be more true to to Nature also mini yeah I think I think it is and

I think also I think what I think that this about Western lifestyle being somehow spreading I think that we are also seen we are at the time and age now where is actually maybe stop spreading the aspiration for the Western lifestyle and there are other other solutions that are on the market so to speak but but I think that That it's also it has to be we have been true and some places the world are still in in places where you have a lot of needs that are the basic needs that are not uh that

are not fulfilled and then I guess the picture of the western lifestyle seems like the solution and I think what what our objective is to come up with other solutions to not having needs basic fundamental needs yet not going all the way into the other debts and have overspending and and and and And what would you say wire raising all the all the laws of nature but isn't one of the challenges that often these mass-produced things that we have been using for decades and developing for decades that is a cheaper solution so when there is

also in order to combat this them and us and the polarization there is also a social Dimension here what is the cheapest solution is that must be one of the challenges and barriers that you meet Now and then in your work I mean chip solution is a very dangerous very dangerous so um so if you it's using clay in the good way is not always cheaper than the cheap solution that you're presenting but the way you do that it is about lifespan if you add a lifespan in that you will see that it's important to

think about a Building as a holistic thing I love because before you told me we have to think about the footprint it is not about saying we should not build and then a ship solution can be a disaster if you have to constantly renew it in short terms then they make no sense but those wanted to have very fast solution I I are going forward with that kind of solution but it doesn't bring any Innovation because you don't change The structure we keep doing and doing that's why I'm not for cheap solution I am for

smart Solutions I am for solutions that doesn't cause a lot of burden to the environment but if a building can survive many years like we see in traditional way of building it is a good solution yes foreign [Applause] yeah no no I agree totally but I think also on the other hand we shouldn't Necessarily say that just because something is mass produced it is a bad idea because I think that's also a lot of again it is it's about the context so I think that probably the dumbest thing we can do is to to to

make very dogmatic uh decisions and this is a good part of them and this is a bad part in in Broad categories I think you have to look at that at the individual things but I I think you are your idea that that the longevity can be a fantastic thing on The other hand you could also say that sometimes maybe for other purposes it's good that it is something you can if you can you can tear down and it will go into into uh into uh into soil within five years if you leave it you

know that could also be a solution in other situations so so I think that again um and I I guess that the the way to regulate that is a big problem because because we all live in very regulated Societies and we don't want our neighbor to build a house that might turn into you know into a stack of of soil in five years by itself while you so so I think that it's not only about um you know what we technically can do by building which is also how we recreate what we do and I

think that's kind of true your your profession also uh Recreation I think is is uh is something we need to to have in in some ways help us achieve these goals That you were sort of in your presentation arguing that Architects sometimes are too reactive where you want them to be a bit more proactive that means that you do not always need to wait for regulation for standards for building requirements things like that I I think you could do that I think that you can do that within within a framework it's like you could you

also the the load bearing capacity of the soil will tell you how tall a building They're always constrained on what you do so you're never unconstrained but within the constraints you can have an aspiration to do something that is not there only to be virtuous by having no this and that and the other but something that actually adds something positively to the to the and built environment and and and to those who live there and that might cause some resources but my my argument is that it'll cause resources regardless of what You do with make

the ugliest dumb cheap building it might cost more resources than building an absolutely beautiful and wonderful one it could be one that will be for one year because it has a special purpose that only lasts one year agree we understand for a thousand years and sorry it's just for the translators I hope you can follow it there it's kicking fast very fast because I got excited about it exactly that's why No I mean no something is clear I mean everyone here in this room um is open for great Solutions um for most of us sometimes

it's not giving opportunity to do so um if we're thinking about solution coming to say uh I'm listening people talking about how to use recycled plastic and that produce a prototype I have been facing people telling me it will be good for Africa and that I become like aggressive I say why is good For Africa not for you guys you know but you you know you yeah but you are you you are forced to be polite because um I I am a teacher and I think there is no uh you know stupid ideas at all

but the question is if we considering that way it is to giving those keep producing plastic and emergency way to keep doing plastic you know because they will say okay we could recycle them to put into building but scientists has proven that Plastic cannot be deteriorated and then if you do so and then I say okay apply it first somewhere where you have the technology to do it in instead of saying that is a solution to solve the Mass housing problem in Africa that I am against at any cost I am again so it's maybe

time to be less polite not because because we will keep producing plastic you know and that is it and we have to stop everything that is causing damage Um we architect we we know them and but we don't have the political power to you know to be against that is the thing where we have to say we need to work more I don't want to say great at on the back but I want to say to just push politics to to look at to the entire thing and not just come with a quick solution um

you know and it brings no future exactly but to to push you further on that is there a tendency that Architects Would sort of zoom in on their own projects cope with whatever barriers you will meet there but maybe not be so outspoken and so direct as you are just now in in the political domain in the domain of society at Large so I I yeah are you outspoken enough are you pushing as as a sector yeah yeah are you pushing those regulators and policy makers enough or are there is a tendency to zoom in

on your own projects I mean We have limitation and that is fact so if you have a building project and you start to fight and to get it fixed first the idea get clear and to get it done so where do you take the time to fight a regulator if you don't join effort you know so you will spend your time just running if it's just you there must be something a sort of movement just to print the finger of that but I I also I I don't think that those Regulators are not aware about

it Because we are too lazy to change our habit I think that is it you will listen that they want to stay in the situation call but say we want to save energy but you're doing nothing you put the second layer of protective skin which may not be good to the environment and you say okay it helps safe but you're adding a layer and a layer without solving the problem entirely and I have no solution at the moment as to go back and look at The material at it is you know um well if I

may I would like to tell you as a beautiful story I think which retains to this about every organism that lived on earth made buildings and in in in in in and interact with the environment and also use what is at the market if if I mean I was walking on a little footpath in Australia through a rainforest not long ago and there was this beautiful beautiful little Construction on the ground it was something called a bower about is a power bird that made it's a beautiful build structure it looked like a a beautiful thing

made of little sticks that were all Bend ins and bone into a beautiful structure and it was painted with red juice from berries afterwards and around it there was this beautiful beautiful blue uh decorations it you know absolutely condensed Romanticism uh sitting there on the forest floor and This is his power bird and it's been doing this for millions of years to attract the male does to attract the females and it's a terrible word it takes off hours seven years to learn to do it and it takes it all day work to get blue flowers

that will pick and put around this this thing to make the decoration but about 15 years ago people started going on strips in the forest and they would rang a bottle of water with a blue screw top plastic screw top And they would throw this thing and the barber had found them and now every barrel bread in Australia they use plastic screw shops for the decoration that means that the bowerbird male can sit down on the sofa all day rather than going around and picking up and the same power will work for years and years

after it so it's again adaptation is also that we actually we look for the best solution at a given time it turns out that actually in this particular Case plastic is a wonderful solution and it's still incredibly no really I mean it sincerely it's incredibly romantic this thing you look at it and you want to cry it's so beautiful and and and we think that plastic is the biggest so again I completely agree with you you shouldn't dump your plastic in somebody else's yard but on the other hand we should not think that just because

it's an artificial something it's not good I mean it serves certain purposes it does Extremely well and and and and and and and and again the oxygen rebreezes the waste product from some other organisms it could have killed everybody so so so uh so just again I think that it's really important that keep your mind open and don't categorize stuff as being this is artificial it's bad this is natural it's very good and because it's not to me it doesn't work like that and I think that you can make wonderful Solutions with a combination as

long as You do it purposefully and with you know with the right mind no no um so I'm totally aligned with you like if you do this observation um I don't call myself a purist no but I rather call myself a material opportunist yes like I will see in the even place what is abundant how can I use this in a very efficient way so if something made artificially with plastic that I'm talking excellent can contribute to create like a little Quantity to create more then I will go with it um I will I'm using

also concrete that's why I don't I I it it's about being smart yes trying to find way how you really can create something that just work very well first for the users create comfort uh without closing on today without causing a burden to advertisement we know that it cannot keep going this way you know when when I start to build Entirely Burkina Faso the same way we may do here in the west and we will not find resources to do that you know this one thing and then but the world will be a little bit

boring yeah I agree no I just say I absolutely agree and I think that that is exactly my point because this opportunism as we also talked about before that that it is it's about looking through the whole repertoire and finding what would create The solution that we need in this particular setting and that would be different from place to place and that also as you say make a more interesting work because it's actually worthwhile going somewhere because it looks differently yeah so I think that's that's uh I'm totally in in agreement so you agree but

you still have some nuances no I don't think it's actually I think my statement was to the same effective To the same point was that that that as you said the opportunities made plastic turns out that that is actually solving a problem and made life much beautiful and much easier than by God to use it you know and we all do it anyway so no I mean so to just so about polarization I mean we see that we have some Nations nowadays we're really group of decisions taker or parties are pushing the society apart disintegrating

yeah you know um I think we yes we creating for people We have to make sure that we don't polarize we have to talk about the problems for sure but then to find a solution because it's our planet and polarization is not bringing us further just to discriminate a group because they're just using a given material that you know you don't use it doesn't bring nothing so but let me come to the to Nature so have you done some study to see how turmeric was able to build such giant Things yes um by being so

little termites are wonderful creatures because they build these enormous fantastically complex structures and there are these things that are called I think they're called magnetic termites because they built their termite things so they are big flat structures and they are in a orientation relative to the Sun that they don't heat up they but and they have these chimneys to make a draft so You have to get Cooling in in the in Earth where the termites live but I think termites are very good example of of of of animals who make very complex buildings and also

of course as you say they also look at what is at hand where they live and the termite I know that some places geologists use termite amounts for exploration because the gemis go down and take the minerals deep down where you can't see them and put them up and build the superstructure so As a geologist you don't have to dig down it does take a number of the termite Hill so so no I I think that um again back to to this point that we all built and we do kind of for the same reasons

and with the same means I mean using stones and mortar has been done for three billion years and we will probably continue doing and even by termite yes uh we take I take your point Monique as You also said we can't do anything without leaving a footprint and therefore also saying whether people like it or not there will be growth and there will be plenty of it because that's sort of how we are and how nature is so it's about how can we create that growth in a smarter manner we have been discussing a lot

here new bills there is also and have you also part of your life is in in Germany I mean in in countries with a lot of buildings and a lot of Needs satisfied we also need to zoom in more on renovation on recycling how do you Francisco how do you see that because that's an area that everybody will talk about but why we can also see that the business models the way it's evolving as as sort of a business is it is slow slow there's still a lot of business as usual being done out there

no I mean so if a building has proven During hundreds of years that it is solid and there is no danger to human being why should I take it down you know we have always ways to add something um and I would just say there is a debate we have to look at if there is a danger for human being you have to fix it we have we have clever engineer that would help to do um what I think um is is clear that that is a contribution to creating more space in You know in

some time all of these buildings are in very exclusive part of a city and they have history and I think that is a pattern of human life it just traces and we add our little thing just it get more value but it's also grounding us we cannot keep tearing everything down and try to always create new things this is a it's it's against human nature it's against human nature no I think I think that that again that that Um as you say changing the the stuff and and adapted to New Uses I think is is

we have to do that but I think on the other hand and that's not to argue against what you said but this idea that we can recycle ourselves out of stuff when we have a growing population that's that's probably not not likely we can do that but then also in that of the other Commodities we use other than our buildings uh Metals we use now metals that we didn't even know 10 years ago And nobody know the name of so there's nothing we can recycle into all these new things so we are in in an

era where things develop so incredibly rapidly that even if we had all the best will to recycle the materials that we are using now are different from those we used just 10 years ago so we have nothing to recycle into our present-day Commodities and I think that's that's something again so it I think we have to expand that view into something else and that Is to be not wasteful and be sure that whatever we take in have new intakes we handle more carefully and with less detrimental effect to nature but we but the idea that

we can be inside a kind of a washing machine that's been spin cycle is is not possible so that goes back to the way we design and construct things yeah yeah so I think it's not about whether we do it or not we have to do it to use new things and build new things and change things and and we lose stuff All the time as just try to think how many umbrellas and ballpoint pins you lost in a lifetime so we always lose part of generally maybe between 20 and 50 percent of what we

use get lost somewhere in the processing so we so that that means that we will always need stuff but the way we have to to to to look at it is to exploit these things in a manner that is less exploitative so to speak that it does not it has legitimately fixed so Many of the product the the side effects of Mining and all these things are willful neglect of something we knew we shouldn't do I mean after you know it's wrong the way we do it most places and we do it anyway for economic

reasons there's not to be unable to do things with more respect for the nature that we are in but it is that we choose not to now this session had in its headline also something within planetary boundaries And the fact that we become more and more people more and more consumption more and more everything how do we keep with that and and cope with that do I hear you Monique if you basically you you say that is not a problem these planetary boundaries no no the planetary boundaries are definitely they are absolutely they're real they

exist and they are there and we have we will hit them with we believe in them or not and we are for some of them now what I'm Saying is that we cannot make the illusion that we can turn back and and not uh challenge this but we have to we have to to understand that use I mean some of the planetary boundaries we are we are crossing them for no good reason other than wastefulness and I think that's that we we should obey them but we should find ways to live within them without the

perspective being not thinking that we can say not spend anything more we can just recycle what We have all that that is impossible so we have to be realistic about it but we also have to be realistic of course there there and we have to see them and we will actually most of them we can feel because we're already paying our heads against them but Francisco then we invent someone invent more sustainable practices better materials better this better that respecting what Monique was just alluding to and then a lot of this progress is eaten Up

because then we want more square meters in our houses and we want more cars and we want more Commodities and how to how to handle that challenge if there are planetary boundaries yeah no but I think the economy will will already limited us you know um so about square if you cannot pay you cannot ask for more square meter I am generous I will give everyone more square meter rooftop and you know Sun at Any time Beauty but it's limited what to do so if we could afford everything it's going to be boring I mean

that is like the fight to improve to get better that is what has made us be human or what we are but we have to be aware about our common Planet so if we destroy it there is a not that is not a second one that we could go to I don't know maybe Elon Musk by himself alone without us you know maybe not the best example of sustainability but yeah I I I no I admire this guy with the battery and whatever but uh I have to say let also solve problems here and I

hope that we will have more Pioneer so standing on Earth and helping us find solution so for these common home which is our planet now you both of you limit we have because I'm sure that if we had endless Time to move into a more sustainable kind of economy then mankind would make it Monique although you are dealing with hundreds of millions of years as a geologist are you comfortable that we will have the time to do it in this very gradual ordered undisrupted manner well I don't know I'm comfortable I think that we have

to I mean I don't I cannot see any alternative to it I I don't think we can make any disruptive thing that is within Any ethical framework that we know of so no no we have to do it and I think we can I think one thing we have you know we have both been advocating for climate awareness and what have you through many many years and I'm sure we actually had the frustration that nothing happened but actually I think that it's also a generational thing in this time that has gone a new generation has

come and all us from previous old Generations although we may be better Architects After HSN keeps it but but uh but we may be less have less plasticity to change our Behavior whereas young people I have looked different you'll be very hard-pressed to find young people who don't have the insight and the will to do something today and so I think that that the our frustration that the translation transition has been going slowly is a party because it goes in joules it goes we have we are giving leaving the floor to a a new generation

That'll do it better I I believe but I think that you're right it it goes to depressingly slow but I can't see how else it would go I mean this go faster but it has to go I think in a Continuum it is that when we talk about a new and younger generation for instance also in in Africa then this is sort of top of mind so globally I think that the younger generation is has more access to Information and is aware about the topic about their own future so we've been going to cover it

and there's a lot of questions we're asking ourselves and what is the future of the planet and particularly being here in the west but also in Africa I know that young people are really really aware and Keen to fight for a better future and it is these impression I have is growing it it's the awareness that will allowed Us to consciously really build something that make the difference but the Young Generation is about about it is a way about it from teaching at the U.S or in in in Germany but also traveling and talking to

the Young Generation they're aware about it but the investors are often not representing the Young Generation award I mean those that will have to finance the projects and create the demand today you feel any movement there as well no There will be the future resource owner it is about a generation those people that are aware about it I think they will grow with this idea that they can't make a difference and I hope yes I hope that one day they become capital of our big boat that I will really navigate it well that is what

I said at the beginning of my lecture I share the hope of everyone here that we can create a better world it's about Hope but this time I think we have to hope but I'm I'm sure I am an optimist we have to hope and to act and you still remain an optimist but here towards the end you mentioned also in your presentation how it's really important for you to to include people in the processes and that is also one of your tools against this polarization that you were referring to could you just tell us

one thing is if you if you do that in your native small Society in Burkina Faso where everybody knows the movers and shakers and be included how do you do it in other spaces be it in Montana or in Munich or no I think no matter where we are we're convinced if we see the real you know um so if you look at sometimes people doing sport when they get awarded a medal you will see them putting these to check if it's real so if you create Um something that is real it will always inspire

people that is the example you need to create if you don't do so and it's stuck in discussion you never go forward that's why I'm really really a pure Optimist really so don't tell it show it you have to show it you have to show it hey [Applause] would that not be a good place to end this conversation I'm sure that these gentlemen they could just continue I'm Sure they will do out there backstage but I think that this final remark also linked very well to your key message Monique to The Architects not only to

be reactive but to be proactive and I think we have heard that message time and again here show it we need the good examples to make it attractive to be part of the journey that we need and remember the world is beautiful and we should not despair it is beautiful and we need to Preserve it and that was the word you also use both of you beautiful thank you so much meaningful Singh and Francis career