You may be seated. Hello, Your Honor. Hello.
This is the case of Hillman v. O'Neal. Thank you, Jerome.
Good day, everyone. ALL: Good day. Ms.
Hillman, you and your mother are appearing today because you claim the defendant got you pregnant and has since refused to do anything for your 13-month-old son, De'Marcus. You've petitioned the court for a DNA test to prove that he is De'Marcus' father. Is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor. Mr O'Neal, you say you are 100% certain that you are not her son's biological father and you plan to prove it in court today. Is that correct?
Yes, Your Honor. Ms. Hillman, what type of relationship does Mr O'Neal have with your son?
Well, Your Honor, he don't do nothing for him. They don't have no relationship together. (AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS) Like when I hold him, Your Honor, and my baby go to reach for him, he ignore him.
Does he provide for the baby financially? No, he don't do nothing. My mom and the baby's godmother is the one that actually helps me with everything.
And that's not right on my son, because he didn't ask to be here. JUDGE LAKE: Mr O'Neal, you haven't done anything for the baby? I got my doubts.
I got my doubts. I ain't doing nothing for the baby. So, you mean it.
Nothing. No changing no diaper, no pampers, no nothing. 'Cause I ain't gonna take care of nothing that ain't mine.
But that is yours. I done been through that experience before. I ain't gonna be no dummy two times.
Oh, the last time you went through it, it was not your biological child? Yes, ma'am. But that ain't got nothing to do with us, so.
. . But I got my doubts.
But you know that's your baby. I got my doubts. All right, so take.
. . I want to understand.
I mean, Mr O'Neal has admitted he is not doing anything for this baby, and he means it. How did your relationship start? Me and Mr O'Neal, we met through two mutual friends.
The first night we met, you know, we chilled and all that. He told me I was his girlfriend. He didn't ask me, like, he told me, he demanded that, "Okay, you're my girlfriend.
We're together. " So, the second night me, him, and the same two mutual friends, we got together and we chilled. That's when I conceived De'Marcus.
Second night, though. JUDGE LAKE: So, it was the second night. .
. I had one made me wait about two, three weeks. Don't say you weren't attracted, 'cause the first time me and you met, you sat in our car and you begged, literally.
You begged for it. Don't try it. (AUDIENCE EXCLAIMING) So, wait a minute.
So, Mr O'Neal, what you're saying now is, you told her you wanted her to be your girlfriend. . .
Yeah. . .
. but now you say since she had sex with you the second night after she met you, you don't believe that you're the only person she was sleeping with. I think she was pregnant before she met me.
He needs to step up and do something for him. When she got ready to have him, he left. O'NEAL: But see, that's the point, Your Honor.
She knows that's her grandson, but do I know that's my child? BOTH: He looks just like you. No, he don't.
That's not going to fool nobody else, though. JUDGE LAKE: All right, so you all met and very quickly you said you wanted to be in a relationship with Ms. Hillman.
Is that correct, Mr O'Neal? Yes, Your Honor. And so you did tell her that, "Okay, we are in a relationship now," and you all were having sex.
Were you using protection? O'NEAL AND HILLMAN: No. The other man wasn't either.
What other man? She was with you! What other man?
She was with you 'cause y'all was at my house. So you were there. "Love at first sight.
" That's what he told me. And then on top of that, the first time me and him with those mutual friends. ever chilled, it was at my mom's house And I wish I would have kept walking.
(AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS) But you didn't. You weren't even walking. You were right in the passenger's seat.
I wish I would have kept riding along. You a scrub, 'cause you was in the passenger's seat, so. .
. I've been trying for five years to try and make a child. All of a sudden when I get with her, oh, pops up three, four weeks, eight weeks, it doesn't matter.
Oh, you pregnant? Why the other women didn't pop up pregnant? Well, maybe they wasn't fertile.
Or maybe you weren't trying hard enough. Call and ask him. How you know he ain't the father?
You say you did, you say you did. . .
Text messages are flirtatious. They ain't had to do about this but they was flirtatious texts. HILLMAN: It was a female, so.
. . You said, you said.
. . Hold on, Mr O'Neal.
You said you caught her with her ex and you saw text messages? No, he didn't. He's lying.
What did you see? "How you doin'? What are you doing tonight?
" "Oh, nothing. " (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) "Can you come chill with me? " "Oh, my old man here.
" So, Mr O'Neal, did you ever physically catch her with another man? Yeah, on her mom's porch. HILLMAN: Why is you lying?
With her ex. Your Honor, let me tell you what happened. And I looked that same night and I think they laid around.
That's why I got my doubts. My three-year-old. .
. JUDGE LAKE: Tell me what happened. I'll give you a chance to respond.
I was in the front room playing a game with her cousin and it was about 10:00, 11:00. But I had walked on the porch and I seen her mama, her and her ex sittin' right here. And now all of a sudden, "You want to come outside?
" Why you even been coming in and tellin' me? Mr O'Neal, do you have any reason to believe that she was still having sex with her ex? I think he stayed the night when I left.
Marcus, don't do it. You know what, I'm just going to say it like this. You was a deadbeat, and you know that baby is yours.
He look just like y'all. You should step up, whether or not. .
. If you wanted this, why wait till he 13 months? You should have did it in the beginning.
The beginning! You should have did it in the beginning. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) Therefore, we wouldn't be going through this right now.
You got to stop listening to what people tell you and learn to think and do for yourself. Just like that random guy when I was chillin' with my homeboy. A random guy asked me, "You Laneja's baby daddy?
" "Yeah. " I said, "Sure, of course. " So, wait a minute, hold on.
You were just chilling out by yourself. What happened? Me and my homeboy, we were in the park, chilling.
A random guy, he walked by first, he didn't say nothing. Walked by the second time, and looked me up, and he was like, "You Laneja's baby daddy? " I said, "Yeah, why?
"What's the problem? " "Oh, that's my homeboy's baby. Did she tell you that?
" (AUDIENCE EXCLAIMS) Your homeboy, baby. . .
His homeboy. Boy, cut it out. So, wait, Mr O'Neal, you were in the park with a friend, just hanging out at the park and some stranger walks by you and says, "Are you Ms.
Hillman's child's father? " You say, "Yes. " With pride.
With pride! But you say he ain't yours though. What is it, he is or he ain't?
JUDGE LAKE: Was she pregnant or was De'Marcus born when this happened? She was. .
. He was already born. So, at that time, you were accepting him as your child?
JUDGE LAKE: You told the man yes. At the time, until he got a little older. JUDGE LAKE: And then when he got older, what happened?
He started not looking like me. He prob. .
. (VALARIE AND HILLMAN SIGH IN EXASPERATION) You. .
. Look at that. Now look at yourself in the mirror.
He look like you, like all your family. All of y'all got big eyes, big lips, big nose. Look at the cheeks.
He got bags under his eyes just like you and your mama. Mr O'Neal, I have to say this to you, because you say you've been through this before. I've been through this before.
And. . .
(STAMMERS) So, at that point, was it that you were struggling and you were at war in your own mind and for a minute you accepted the baby and you just said okay but then as the baby got older. . .
. . .
got older, I had my doubts. And then you just started feeling like, "He doesn't look like me. This is about to happen to me all over again.
" And that's what made you step back from this child, and that's what made you say, "I don't want anything to do with this child, 'cause I don't want to feel "that kind of pain. " And I don't want to get attached. And I don't want to be hurt no more.
I know how it feel. And like I said, I just. .
. I want a baby that I know that's mine, and just raise my own family, be protective of my own family. So, if it is yours, what you gonna do?
I'm going to step up like a man. Okay. Well, we gonna need you to do it.
(AUDIENCE CHUCKLES) I'm going to step up. What are you thinking about right now, Mr O'Neal? What's on your mind?
Tell the court. It ain't my child. And I say it is.
JUDGE LAKE: And it seems like that kind of bothers you when you say that. VALARIE: Don't front. That baby look just like you.
We'll find out. HILLMAN: We is gonna find out. So, listen, was Mr O'Neal there when the baby was born, at the hospital?
No, I was. O'NEAL: I was home. HILLMAN: He left me.
. . Why be there when I got.
. . When I had doubts!
HILLMAN: Can I talk? Why be there at the hospital? So, he wasn't there to sign the birth certificate?
No, I got evidence right here. Let me see that. Jerome, will you hand me the evidence, please?
Thank you. You're welcome. This evidence is De'Marcus' birth certificate.
And under "Father's name," there is no father listed. HILLMAN: And Your Honor, it's embarrassing. 'Cause like, when he go to the doctor, they look at me funny like, "Oh, just another person who don't know who their daddy is, "or their daddy wasn't there to sign the birth certificate.
" That's embarrassing. That really is embarrassing. HILLMAN: That is.
And he says he's so hurt. No, I'm hurt because you knew we was doing it. If you be faithful, we wouldn't be going through this.
How are you going to talk about somebody being faithful, when just a couple of days before we came here, a female was sending pictures to your phone. But you didn't tell that to the court, now, did you? It doesn't feel good when the shoe on the other feet, eh?
Child, boo and bye. So, wait a minute. You all still dealing with each other?
Somewhat. Off and on. So you still see De'Marcus?
You see the baby? You just don't do anything. .
. When I feel like it. JUDGE LAKE: When you feel like it.
HILLMAN: But he don't do nothing. Because this is what paternity doubts do. .
. This is nothing new. We see this all the time.
Look, I don't think Mr O'Neal has, you know, performed well in this situation at all. I do understand he's been hurt before. I do understand that really has affected him.
I do understand that in that moment, he just made a decision, as wrong as it may have been, that, "I'm just not going to go through this hurt again. "I'm going to avoid this pain. "And so, the way I avoid it "is that I just don't get attached to any child "until I know for certain they're mine.
" Right? Wrong, right or indifferent, that was his choice and that's what he did. Hold on, but I want to also say to you, and you gotta be honest with this and, mom, you have got to make sure your daughter understands this.
When you meet a man on a Monday, and you in the bed with him on a Tuesday, you don't know him well enough. You don't know his intentions well enough, you don't know his capabilities of being a father well enough, you do not know whether he is compassionate enough, you don't know his finances well enough, and you don't know his background well enough to know. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) VALARIE: Well, I.
. . JUDGE LAKE: Hold on!
You don't know any of that information well enough to know how he's going to respond in a situation like this. There's also another point to this, is that he's never been a father, and he may not know how to be one, and he may not care to be one until he knows for certain. So there's a part you play in this.
So, as you say to him he's a deadbeat, he's a this, he's a that. . .
You're 20 years old, having sex in your mother's house. I got a problem with all that. 'Cause, mom, what that lets her know is that's okay.
Hold up, Your Honor, because the same kids that he said is not his, he's been raising them kids. JUDGE LAKE: But, listen. .
. Doing for them. But this is the point I am making.
You are so angry at him and you have a right to be. But you also have to identify the ways in which you could have changed your behavior so it doesn't happen again. You got another baby, right?
An older baby, right? And then you have De'Marcus, right? How many kids do you have?
VALARIE: He do for the older one. I have two, but. .
. He do for the older one. He'll help me with my oldest son.
But not him. Because he knows that child is not his. Don't you all see his logic?
As flawed as it may be, he will do something for the older child that he knows is not his because he's not going to get attached to that child the way he may get attached to De'Marcus. VALARIE: What? You're not understanding the logic.
Listen. . .
But Your Honor, he gets attached to the two that he knows for a fact that it's not his. That's what I just said, which is proof you're not listening. I just said that.
But what I'm saying to you is as a young woman, I don't want this to happen to you again. So what I'm saying to you is you got to look at this. That's how we learn our lessons in life.
You got to live it. You've seen it now, "I done laid down with a man, 14 years older than me, at my mother's house, "had sex, let him have fun. .
. " No. When they first lay down, it was not at my house.
But what I'm saying, you said you know this because you said, "They were in my house, "hunching all the time. " Wait. That was after.
When they first did it, they was over his people's house. HILLMAN: We was living together. JUDGE LAKE: Listen.
Listen, that's fine, but even at the time that you were at your mother's or wherever you may be, you did not know him well enough. To know how he would respond, and sometimes you don't know how people will respond until they are in a situation. Which is why it is best for you to know them well as possible before you get yourself here.
And look, you can continue to point the finger at him. I don't know the results today, and I'm gonna get them for you. Because she should have protected herself.
. . And he should have protected himself.
Amen, ma. That's what I'm talking about. (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) That's what I'm talking about.
If he doesn't want to protect himself, you protect yourself because at the end of the day, you see where the buck stops, right? Yep. Mama's baby, Daddy's.
. . Exactly!
Daddy's maybe. JUDGE LAKE: And we're the ones up in the middle of the night. You're living it.
I can see it in your eyes. But I'm talking to you, woman-to-woman, 'cause I don't want this to happen to you again. Do you understand?
All right. Yes, Your Honor. I'm gonna get you these results because I want to see how we can move forward.
Jerome? (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) These results were prepared by DNA Diagnostics, and they read as follows. In the case of Hillman v.
O'Neal, when it comes to one-year-old De'Marcus Hillman, it has been determined by this court, Mr O'Neal, you. . .
Are the father. (VALARIE LAUGHING) Can I see him? JUDGE LAKE: You're the father.
You did all that. Can I see him? Ms.
Hillman, would it be okay if Mr O'Neal saw his son? That's fine. I'm happy.
JUDGE LAKE: You look happy. I'm so happy, I want to cry. Can I say something, Your Honor?
All I want him to do is step up and help. I don't care if it's a pamper, a wipe, a lotion, just. .
. Help a little bit. Can he see his son in my chambers?
Yes, ma'am. Wonderful. I will meet you all there.
Court is adjourned. He's so cute. Thank you.
Is there anything you want to say to your son? He is beautiful. I'm sorry for not being there for 13 months.
And don't think I don't regret it. That's such a beautiful picture. This is such a beautiful picture.
And I hope you all keep this moment in your minds. It won't always be easy, but he needs all of you. There's no doubt anymore.
You're probably a little bit in shock, right? Good luck to you guys, okay? HILLMAN: Thank you.
Hey, little handsome. (CHUCKLES) Oh, you're cute.
