Simon is to my right and in studio with us just now and the man himself is getting a huge reaction here at talk sport football Finance expert formerly uh advising clubs such as Manchester city is football Finance expert Stephan borson Stephanie you're actually a real expert in the field of litigation I I I know that um you advis Manchester City what were you advis them about uh well I advise City from about 2001 to 2007 uh so that's when we had no money at all so uh one of one of our deals bur yeah that
sort of time alist McIntosh was CEO that that point um and John Wardle was chairman I remember at that point uh and clearly the club was living a little bit hand to mouth at that point in the way that a number of clubs are are today uh one of the deals that we did we ended up doing a said and Lease back on the club shop for three million quid you know that's the sort of that that's where the club was uh in terms of its need for cash incredible and ultimately my my final uh
transaction for them uh was the auction process uh before the man saw one so uh when we we ended up selling to tax in Shino which I can see Simon is already smiling about uh but you know the reality is sometimes you have to do deals that you wouldn't ordinarily want to do um and city were in that kind of position at that time now clearly that transaction ultimately didn't go well but it it went well to the extent that that owner was able to access buyers that we weren't able to access despite a very
very public auction and that's why we ended up in the hands of um of shik Mansour um a year later I see so your time at city was as as advisor was pre Shake mansur just so we can establish that so when we come to talk about Manchester City and the 115 charges that they face everybody seems Stephan to hit something of a brick wall um in front of the dcms the other day Richard Masters uh top man at the Premier League was saying yes a date has been set for the hearing regarding the charges
that face Manchester City but it won't tell us when you've got your ear to the ground haven't you when is it Stephan well I I don't know when it is because all anybody knows is what there's a piece from Mike Keegan um why would that compromise anything well it doesn't compromise anything but you know so why wouldn't Masters reveal it well first of all there there is uh strict confidentiality uh Clauses within the Premier League rule so I assume that's what he's got in mind in saying he can't comment when it is but there is
a ludicrous situation that we have right now where we have this situation ongoing and at some point at someday that nobody knows you know nobody knows exactly when an announcement is going to drop again we don't know whether it's going to be in the morning or the afternoon there's going to be an enormous announcement that that completely changes I would would say completely changes Premier League football like what either way like what well either that either that City have been cleared yeah or uh for me as a city fan and we you haven't revealed that
yet uh but somebody that's objective I I would like to think you know to to to to the extent that anybody can be and I think you know football bias is a very strong thing and objective we we have to did I say biased you said subjective subjective yeah no no objective um you know we all try and be as objective as possible but um you know and that that's what I'll try and be in our discussion about City but but you know the consequences of of city of the charges being proven are obviously enormous
for the club and uh and enormous for the fans I mean so uh you know the idea that the Premier League can say nothing until some Mystery Date sometime in the future can say literally nothing that's their plan at the moment no timetable no indication of actually what the allegations are beyond that list I mean I've worked you know quite hard you seen the charges well no I've seen the charge sheet that everybody's seen but I you know I'm able to decipher it because of my knowledge of previous cases and joining some of the dots
and and you know and some of some of the things I've written public on that um and so I understand the case but most people don't understand the case because why would they it has never been explained to them and Richard Master sits there and and says well we we've agreed today you know it is similar though to the case that UEFA ran isn't it I think it's very similar to to the case that the UEFA ran and that's a and that's it's a simple argument that can be easily explained which is that shareholders are
funding the football club through concocted sponsorship deals inflating those sponsorship deals representing them as sponsorship Revenue when really it's Equity money going into the business so you're representing EAD or ESAT that were major sponsors during this period of time putting X amounts of tens of millions of pounds in on sponsorship deals which aren't what they say they are they're actually funding coming from another business called ad Adu which is Shake man business that's what the accusation is well the accusation I mean City wrote themselves you know if you look at because it is similar to
the cast I mean City wrote themselves the allegations made in these proceedings are serious and based on fraud and conspiracy involving City add the sponsors etti salot and etti had you know this is these are serious allegations of Fraud and dishonesty it would require a conspiracy and and that is the word City use these are not my words these are City's words it's an allegation of Fraud and conspiracy that's been made by the Premier League against multiple parties and by UEFA and one of which and one of which U we try make this convicted them
off understandable well yes but of course they did they charged them they did they did they did however of course Cass overturned it and said uh over 10 times there was no evidence for the for I'm just trying to break this down for for the Layman of whom I'm one so Stephan here we go you've said that in the months to come maybe weeks and months to come a day probably will materialize when there will be an announcement out the blue regards Manchester city either the charges are dropped and life goes on or presumably the
alternative City are bang in trouble yeah well not dropped I mean I think you know any of compared to Everton and nauy and Forest what what's the scale of the trouble the scale is on a completely different level I mean it's there could be no question that uh that this will end in um well at least relegation right so there's no question if if those charges are proven that there a suggestion of of conspiracy over over effectively 10-year period you know they're suggesting that City's main sponsorship Agreements are not for let's say 50 60 million
but are actually for 8 million million p and the whole thing was a sham and a whole load of people lied and a whole load of Executives from multiple uh companies were in on it and interest in common ownership well well actually some of them outside of common ownership but but a number of people were were also vested interest them vested interest perhaps um and that the club also lied to multiple other parties professionals uh people doing due diligence on the on the company uh the league UEFA uh the fa uh you know goes on
and on they just they just blatantly refuse to cooperate to such a point that they got sanctioned even by C well no that's that's a separate point I mean you if you look at the C judgement there's a Ted acceptance from everybody that's dealt with them including the Premier League that there was a blatant refusal and even in uea's judgment followed up by cass's judgment there was a absolute unequivocal acceptance that they've been charged with a an absolute refusal to cooperate yeah got a 10 million fine the these are separate matters so there is a
a situation of refusal it goes to the heart of what you're saying which is the provision of information and people being people being prepared to provide information in certain ways and their integrity being compromised if you're stying the flow of information then there is an element of the manner in which you behave puts you in a situation where people can't get clear pictures I I don't agree with that I think you have to separate two things you have to separate the Battle of very serious allegations and the litigation that surrounds it and I I've been
involved in in uh in in English litigation regarding allegations of dishonesty not against myself as have I um not not against myself I don't know about no I put one against one of the most difficult cases misrepresentation know so so so frudia misrepresentation is a good example you will know how hard people fight about disclosure of documents about every inch of the way to try and sty me the other side that is a normal approach to to high value High profile litigation there is nothing in itself wrong with that and and I think that that
any innuendo or inference that comes from that is wrong now I'm not saying they didn't breach the rules of UA for in terms of their cooperation they clearly did and they were fine for it but to be perfectly honest with you it's not that big a deal compared to the charges that have been led by the Premier League Char the charges here Stephan if I can pick up up on it if they are found guilty of the charges that they will face that they are facing Manchester City will face at least relegation well it's just
hard to see how it can be any other way because you will have confirmed that that if proven and you know I don't believe that the Premier League will be able to prove a case of this nature in an independent commission I think it's a completely inappropriate forum for a case of this nature but if proven this is super serious I mean there could be no nobody would argue with that City themselves in their submissions I promise you because they've said it to cast they will say this is a this is a an allegation of
the most serious nature Manchester City say robustly they will clear their name do you think they will I think they'll clear their name because I think a case of this Nature has to have a level of of cogent proof which seems to me to be impossible to present to to Independent commission and furthermore and furthermore it seems to me highly unlikely that the conduct that is alleged has taken place over a 10-year period with the sorts of individuals that are involved in in the club and in the companies that are involved it seems to me
highly unlikely and that also will be the starting point of any independent commission whether whether Simon likes it or not that is their starting point and it will be a very big call for any uh quazi Court tribunal to uh to suggest that this number of people have been dishonest and have purged themselves that will be a massive call for a effectively some uh some cases and maybe a former Finance director of a football club to to make against not just uh Manchester City but against numerous Executives against uh some third party individuals um and
against of course uh potentially uh uh uh um um senior members of foreign with football Finance expert St Bon it has been hugely interesting if intense half hour thank you so much for being with us thanks a lot Jim White and Simon Jordan Monday to Friday mornings from 10: on am on da via the talk sport app and on your smart speaker talk sport
