AI is Ending the Social Media Era and What Comes Next | Gary Vee

I think we're at the beginning of the end of the social media era. I think AI cracks the current value proposition of the social media platforms in their current state. >> This is already my favorite podcast ever. Talking about a very smart thing. When distribution changes, everything changes. Augmented reality is a huge winner. If we really do go to glasses and we're really here, we could have a Third guest right now and she's here. >> Some of the data that I'm [music] seeing show that we're starting to show that we want something new. A lot

more people are saying they're going to unplug than actually people like Gary in the recent poll I'm like stop from the wheel to AI [music] we will go >> AI will meet you where you are >> and where you are at [music] all times. I think video is a very big deal for human beings. Videos have been the proof Of our society for 100 plus years and we're 5 years away from no one believing a video on the internet. That's the dangerous part of this. [music] So let's talk about it. We're almost two decades into

this era of social media and we can feel like it's a constant because we're so used to waking up scrolling or talking about social media. But the reality is the industry is a variable. It's not a constant as all industries that are born Of different technologies. So I'm trying to understand are we at the beginning of the end of the social media era and if we are what's coming next? Today I'm sitting down with Gary Vee, one of the legendary earliest creators in the social media economy. He was one of the earliest people to write

checks to companies like Facebook and Twitter. He has a notorious track record for understanding what could be coming next and where we're [music] going. I'm Shane Bovel and this is I've got questions. Okay, so I have a thesis. There's three parts to it. I've teased it out on social media a little bit. I've written about it in my Substack, but I've never put it together for anyone in its entirety until now. And I think you're the perfect person to run this through it. >> Well, I'm flattered. >> So, I think we're at the beginning of

the end of the social media era. >> Okay. >> Part one of the thesis. So, I think and they're all tied to AI. I think AI cracks the current value proposition of the social media platforms in their current state. So, we post because people watch us, right? Right? Whether I'm signaling that I'm single or taken, uh that I'm employable, that I was at the beach the other day, >> there's consumption on the other side. >> We pose for human receipt. >> Yes. >> If we can't verify that I'm posting for a bunch of R2-D2s or

actual people, that psychology of signaling starts to break. So I post, but what is the incentive? Because the feedback is not guaranteed. >> Want to start? >> Okay. I'm going to build them all and then you can want to break them all down. Okay. Part two. The better AI gets and the more reliable this technology gets, especially as it Transitions towards voice first, the less I'm going to want to pull out my phone and it's going to start to break that habit that we formed of opening, swiping, watching, viewing, and I'm just going to say,

"Alexa, Uber, order this thing, do this thing, and I'm not going to open and watch." And then the third, AI, it's a general purpose technology like the internet. And these technologies don't mean that we do the same thing just faster or more Automated. We do different things. >> Yes. >> So I think you know television YouTube isn't automated TV. It was new people that gained influence. So I feel like we're on the beginning of something entirely new that will have threads to the social media economy, but it will be unrecognizable as going from cable to

Tik Tok. >> Couple things. So that's awesome. This is so fun. This is already my favorite Podcast ever. Uh I would argue that cable and Tik Tok are not wildly different. >> Okay. >> So that's put on a shelf. Let's go back to the beginning. >> Yep. The value prop. >> Yeah. The reality is it will be and not or. If you were if your numbers, let's just go where I think you're going. Correct me if I'm wrong. So I don't believe AI bots Or agents consuming content eliminates the reality that humans could also consume

that content. So I view it as an and environment versus or >> to your point to many people's points in fake fraud media world preocial like bots in digital marketing. you know, if I see 14 million views and I know that that's actually only 300,000, that creates a new, you know, micro dynamic. >> Sure. >> But if the results of what I want to happen happened from the 300,000 people that actually saw it, >> if I'm now posting and 99% is bots, but 1% is human, and all my metrics are 99% fake, but one is

human or AI or bots or agents or wherever we go. If the results that I want >> are still grounded in the 1% of human instead of 100% human, I'm still going to be incentivized to do it. If I say I'm single and the only people that are Trying to date me is a is an AI agent robot bad. >> It's possible. But if it is also going to be people just drowned out metrically >> and maybe optically by data robots agents, well then I'm still going to do it. If I am going to sell

wine or get stopped by 500 people in the street and say you changed my life, even though yesterday year it was 100,000 views and that's what resulted it and now it's 40 million views, but it's really only a 100,000 views. I'm still going to do it. So the question becomes if there is still human consumption no matter how drowned out in an overall metric and the actions are executed on by those humans I don't think we walk away. So you're saying, okay, if I'm selling makeup, and sure, now I maybe have a a million views,

some of those are going to be synthetic, but if I'm still growing my sales because that information is getting back to a human somehow, I know That this is still working. Something's happening, that it is actually working. >> Correct. One of the cool things about why I think we I built one of the biggest marketing companies is I don't care about marketing in a silo and I think the marketing industry does. >> I care about what marketing does for a business. Right. >> So, I've never worried about anything other than I do this all the

time like trying to remind people like this is not Art class. This is we have to drive this insurance company's business. >> Right. Right. >> So, that is a comp to what I'm saying. >> But how does this happen on the same platforms? Because what I'm envisioning is cable and then Tik Tok on the same channel. And that's >> this is where I think you're wildly right. So, I think one of the things you said is like, you know, so a I could not agree with you more about voice. In Fact, we started talking about

this. I've got some good ass receipts in 1617 because I became infatuated. I started seeing early AI. I I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] Alexa's a beast." You know, like I really voice >> a worst voice technology will ever be. >> Oh my god. >> And it's the most conversation for us. >> I only prompt and voice. >> Me, >> I only prompt and voice. >> And there are entire businesses that are now voiced first. So you go into their offices, there are startups, they're not typing, they're talking. And it's much more. >> I'm so

pumped about that. As someone who can't write for [ __ ] somebody's ass. I'm pumped. >> Anyway, so I'm a buyer. I've got another build on yours. >> Okay. >> Because you're talking about a very Smart thing. When distribution changes, everything changes. >> I also believe, forget about voice, and I'm with you on that. That's one thing. >> Where is it? >> So, you do agree that voice could break that loop of open phone and watch something >> for sure. and open phone and watch something is being battled on not just by the voice devices

>> but this is coming >> glasses >> glasses I would argue that voice would be an and because we still want to consume visually >> I think it's glasses I think voice to your point may be a dent >> sure >> in consumption but I think if glasses pulls off its mission y >> whether it's meta whether it's Google >> Apple who knows who's coming >> and you know this could be some secret Right now there's a Chinese based company >> that when glasses comes that I believe glasses is the most obvious thing brewing that

is going to do to phone what phone did to television >> and what television did to radio. I fully agree >> and so okay so let's paint this new economy. So maybe you throw on your glasses and or you have AirPods. So when Apple dropped AI translation in their AirPods a couple months ago and it is amazing that you can do translate anything anytime. I saw an AI in your ear. That is the beginning of that behavior. AI and ear talking to AI. I mean, social media companies are now actually competing with people talking to

Chad GBT versus going on those platforms. So, we're already seeing that. >> Every, you know, I wrote a book. Oh, there it is. I wrote a book, Day Trading Attention. >> I think it's the only asset, and I think you're touching on this. They're all competing. >> They're all competing. >> I mean, they're competing with sleep. >> They're competing with competing with working out. They're competing with us doing what we're doing right now. Netflix versus Tik Tok, Tik Tok versus the New York Times, >> soon the live experiences, which we can Get into. But let's

paint this ecosystem, right? So you maybe throw someone's going to throw on glasses when they need to see something, but it can't look the same way, right? You can't be scrolling TikTok with your eyes, the format has to change. So I think >> that 90second video clip, we are at the beginning of the end of that as the center of gravity. >> I think video is a very big deal for human beings. >> Mhm. So, I think that's the dangerous part of this. So, let's talk about it. Couple things. I believe, and I have a

feeling as I'm starting to get in here with you that you'll see this as well. I think augmented reality is a huge winner. You know, AR is going to be very big. >> If we really do go to glasses and we're really here, we could have a third guest right now and she's here. Mhm. >> So I think I think video starts to get Very three-dimensional >> and interactive. >> Correct. It gets really powerful. >> So to your point like watching a 30-se secondond video in a box on your phone is absolutely going to feel

as mundane as like the old motion pictures. Totally like you know like you see like they used to move manually like no doubt. >> Y >> I think that again I'm just looking at everything I can see with my eyes right Now. If it goes back to the sphere in Las Vegas, >> that venue >> like do I watch Star Wars 67 >> in 20 years where everything is activated? I think so. >> That's right. Like it's not limited, but it will be in video form. >> It might be in AR three-dimensional form as the

technology grows. I'm in the movie. Like it gets really immersive. Like I don't see how we are not robots At some point, you know? probably not in my lifetime. Maybe in my lifetime. This stuff sometimes goes pretty fast, but hopefully I live long. Um, but yes, I think I think that is the case. Um, I think it's the glasses and AR content becoming the winner in that decade. What video in this device? I think this is the distribution. Like for example, the LLM, you know, AEO GEO thing that you brought up about Uber or utility.

When I'm going into Uber, I'm going into Uber. I'm not on Instagram anyway. I don't think that's taking away. >> You know what I mean? I'm in Uber anyway. I'm in Uber for 13 seconds and I go back to Instagram now. It's frictionless to your point. It's so easy. But I'm not worried about that part that you brought up. >> I I think voice pluses is bad for phone >> and we reset. And I agree. I think in the beginning just like this is such I'm Going to make a prediction. I'm very passionate about I

believe a lot of the early executions will be silly. They will be one minute videos that just show up in your glasses because a lot of people won't be used to the new distribution. >> The first commercials on television were radios. >> Yeah. >> It was a photo and a man read it just as if he was on radio. And it took time for Us to understand the power. Correct. >> So totally new operating system, voice interface and AR interface in a world where we're wearing this predominantly. I think it's going to get so good

10 years after it comes out that people will struggle to take their glasses off because you won't even be able to live in the world because you'll be missing too much, >> right? >> 20 years after it, just like the iPhone, You know, the, you know, you may know this, the original big app on the iPhone was drinking a beer. Like silly, we didn't know yet. That's a long cry from Uber or, you know, Instagram or what have you. And so, >> yeah, I think that those are the themes I agree with. So it's either

the current players and they're probably planning for this because you do see meta step into our glasses, but the future it's not a continuation, right? You don't Just pile on the new thing. There is an app or a some kind of experience waiting to be born that combines either the glasses and or AirPods and or some form of a pendant that's a new type of interaction that's just not this. >> This has no shot. >> It's Yeah. I mean >> it will take time. This isn't tomorrow. >> Correct. I think it's you know I think

it's still I think this has got a decade For real. >> Do you think I do because I think the glasses that I'm talking about and the voice interface universal everywhere we turn >> has more work to be done. Meta's project Orion I think is hoping for six years from now and that's like they're ambitious and hopeful. So, and then even when it comes out, I mean, this was my thing back then. Like, I was like, when the iPhone came out, I'm like, "All of You are going to have an iPhone." They all laughed at

me because they all loved their Black. >> So, did TechCrunch. Everybody slammed the iPhone. It was going to bomb, fail miserably. >> People don't understand people's like people don't understand what people value. Like, at the time, for me, it was an easy read. I'm like, the internet's on this and not like the Blackberry, like the real internet. This is a Computer. So, you know, I think that um I think that it will be that kind of window, but this will be replaced by a more extreme version of this, just so you know. >> Do you

Okay, so I think I mean some of the data that I'm seeing show that we're starting to show that we want something new or we're ready for what's next. Whether that's people spending less time on social media, especially Gen Alpha, and I know that that's something that You've talked about. People want to live in the world now. >> I love that. I agree. >> I love that too. I think it's barbells. My I think we're going to go into extremism on both. Look, the techn is too intoxicating to the human being. >> Like we only

go one direction. >> It's always extreme. >> Yeah. Like it's always the new technologies win. Like people held on to candles and lanterns, but electricity Won. >> People stuck with their horses for a like >> Yeah. Yeah. We go to the next. >> We're going to because it's just too it's just it's too obvious. It's the most historical truth of man. From the wheel to AI, we will go >> move forward. Yeah. >> And we will have pockets of adjusting like everyone smoked. Then no one smoked. And by the way, smoking starting To come back.

>> Like not vapes, >> right? >> Cigarettes. The cool kids in Brooklyn are starting to do it again. You could see it. It's starting to happen. >> Alcohol. No. Yes. No. Yeah. Like it. >> Yeah. It cannabis. Most people don't know the history. like they don't understand like go back 150 years and we were good. It's medicine. Yeah. Like canceled and then it's back. >> Correct. So, so we eb and flow in the micro we're tired of all this for sure. >> Uh and then there's kids always want to be cool so I'm going to

get a CD player. Just like there's all that >> but in the macro the tech will win. The tech could be getting so extreme. The fun thing to think about is that's how he's always gone. Is this so extreme that it does create this counter on the barbell? >> Do we start understanding the weekends More? Do we go in hyper acceleration of AI to a three-day, two-day work week? What the [ __ ] does that mean? 5 days of leisure. It now you are yogaing and climbing a mountain. You know, like extreme capitalism might look

like socialism. Like who, you know, this gets really fascinating. What I meant by that everyone is you know if seven companies become trillions because of this technology and they have all the moes well they might you know and and jobs Are just getting rat government's going to get involved and make them subsidize the carnage. So I don't know these are all the fun questions I think about constantly. Yeah, and I think we do eb and flow. I think we're going to go through a dip where people are going to go offline and we see a

bit of a a renaissance. And I think marketing companies are going to figure out how do I leverage technology because it's not that you're getting now a telegram to Tell you where the new thing is in in in the park. Companies are going to figure out how do we use technology to get people into offline experiences that are worth attending. And that's coming. >> That's happening. >> And we're seeing it. I >> I would argue that's been happening. I would argue that technology has been the gateway drug to in real life. >> Like like I'll

give you an example. Do you know how many people are going to go Out on a date tonight that it started in their phone >> tonight? Most people Yeah. >> Do you know how insane that is? I would argue that's been happening. >> Like literally in New York, we're in New York City right now. >> Yeah. >> Tonight. Is tonight Wednesday or Thursday? >> Wednesday. >> Okay. Tomorrow night. I'm just going to Go with Thursday. Tomorrow night. Do you know how many people are about to go on a date tomorrow night in New York City

where that started with a DM on Instagram or Tinder or something else like >> LinkedIn apparently? >> Yeah. Substack writers are get on fire like you know like >> that happened digital to then go >> to have a meal or a drink or a coffee. It's been happening. I think we in Society >> are tackling a lot of anxiety around a lot of issues. Geopolitics is not chill. It's not 2002. >> No. >> Um >> I think modern parenting had a tough chapter the last 30 years. So we have a lot of insecurity >> in

the early 20s and 30s in society in in Western first world countries. >> Um >> I think we've become dramatically materialistic. Unfortunately they materialism has really had a good run. I think we're really overly >> we're ready to unsubscribe from that. I mean, I've been on my whole life's been unsubscribed for that. And I think so much of my happiness comes from >> 30-y old tea. >> Yeah, I love that. Well, that's cool. You know, that's ironic. Cool. The other way. I'm like, "Oh, she's cool." So, I Think there's a lot going on that makes

it easy for us to not be accountable of our own shortcomings and say, "Oo, it's you." >> And so, that's what I'm spending a lot of time thinking about, which is why we're, for example, you know this with data, a lot more people are saying they're going to unplug than actually unplug. Right? >> We talk big. That's what people are like Gary in the recent poll I'm like not Interested stop >> we think it's less people are talking about moving offline but hardly anyone's going we're seeing it in some of the data with Gen Alpha

they're physically not getting the same phones and they're not signing up in the same or they're in DMs >> I agree they're not in the feed that's right I see that >> um >> there's a lot to watch with them you Know I have a 16 and 13year-old and I spend so much time on youth culture there's a lot to see how it all plays out I think there's a lot of ironic Cool. >> Mhm. >> I think Gen Alpha is doing its thing against Gen Z, which is like so fun to watch cuz I

got to really watch Gen Z do it to millennials. >> Created a whole new dynamic. >> Um, when I was growing up, I'm Gen X. Like, we didn't even know that we were in Gen X or I didn't know what a boomer was. Like it, you know, we found another thing to separate us. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I always I hate it. I hate the whole generational thing. As if religion, race, gender wasn't enough things to divide us, we added another thing. You know, there's a lot of tension and I think that seeps into

how we view technology. I think we're blaming Technology and I also think we're posturing. >> I think we say something in a poll or a survey and we act a different way. >> We are aspirational. So your dating profile, your LinkedIn, your resume is who you hope to present yourself. And you probably answer a poll in that way, too. >> You're very sweet. I would argue that we're full of [ __ ] and we're hypocrites. [laughter] You know, you know, I think We we I think we're audacious. I think we I think people think they

can trick people. >> You know, one of the great things that happened in my life, luck of the draw, DNA wise, parenting circumstance was my intuition's really on. >> And it's really hard to trick me. >> And I think that scared me because I was like, "Wait a minute. I don't want to trick the 99%. I want the 1%, you know, intellectual, successful, optimistic, Good to like me. I'm not going to trick." Mhm. >> I think a lot of people get away with tricking people or think it's they can trick people cuz they're trickable. >>

So it brings me to an interesting point because we've been hearing a lot about the word authenticity especially as it relates to AI. >> Yes. >> So people saying okay AI is coming. There's going to be AI influencers or And I mean um I think Adam Mazeri did a big mini essay on Instagram talking about the rise of AI in the platform and we know we see what you're seeing and we're going to try to figure this out. Instagram's gonna have to figure something out. But for the meantime, try to be authent authentic because authenticity

is going to win. [snorts] I feel like we're off to shaky ground. If we're thinking about authenticity in Relationship to a machine, I feel like that's already out. I think authenticity should have nothing to do with the AI or anything else. I I don't even know where we're going with that with authenticity. >> That's a great I love how you think. Couple things. Let's go backwards. Is it authentic to make art on a canvas? It's one of my favorite historical events. When the canvas was invented, all the artists said >> it was radical. >> They

said it wasn't real. They said, "If you make art on a canvas, it's not real. You must make it on a building." The amount of people that just heard that that had never knew that and they think that's real art. And like an NFT, no way. Digital art, right? M. >> So machines, was it authentic for people to show up on radio and television? Cuz that was a machine. >> Mhm. >> So like those are machines. Did that Require did that require like did you have to >> did Martin Luther King have to just be

was he only authentic to the people that were on that lawn? Because [ __ ] I surely felt something as a I went to MLK elementary school and it was a big deal for me as a kid. that speech, you know, you know, I get where you're coming from, but I think it goes further back. Like, was it authentic to to write down words on a piece of paper with an ink Pen versus saying it to someone? I don't know. It depends on my point of view is the intent and the actions are the authentic

part, not what's distributing it. >> Yeah, totally. the intention because we quickly go to authenticity just being don't put effort in. I mean, but if you're looking at someone like Wes Anderson, I'm sure his movies aren't cheap to make, but they're authentic to him. >> Well, that's right. >> So, authenticity, it's like we shouldn't it shouldn't even be in comparison to others or machines. It's what is interesting to you. >> Plus, what can you do? Like you earlier said my substack like I'm so not jealous or envious, but like I'm like, man, I'm I'm so

capable of communicating with my words. And thank God that can translate into written, >> but to write God, I've got nothing. >> And like sometimes authenticity is incredibly insular and solo. >> Totally. It's not a It shouldn't be a performance. Authent like the fact that we immediately went to how you present yourself to the world and it comes down to how you it's missing the point. >> I I've never by the way my way actually back to the original creator. I am one month away. In a month will be the 20th anniversary of me making

my first YouTube video. YouTube wasn't even six Months old. >> Congratulations. That's >> no lighting, no audio. >> And I did that for five years. >> And by that time, everybody did have lighting and audio. >> And I don't know, it just like it felt just fine. And guess what? It did great >> and it worked >> because I knew what I was talking about with wine. I was knowledgeable about wine. I was passionate about wine. And I Really wanted people to learn about wine that were under 40 from a nonp pretentious person so they

could enjoy it instead of thinking it was some academic test. >> Yeah, >> I feel like I can do that with an AI movie right now too and it will be authentic. >> Well, it's whatever is interesting to you. If you are someone too that likes the frills and likes the perfection just Because people are saying AI can maybe do that. If that was where you that's what inspires you, keep doing that because we don't want to adapt away from ourselves because of a machine. And I think we're running in circles around it. >> There's

a really funny saying that modern parenting has for little kids that says it it this is the saying they'll say to a kid, don't yuck, they're yum. >> And my kid, my kids are 16 and 13, and I heard that 10 years ago, and I was like, that's awesome. That's how I see that's how I see life. This was more about like don't say that snacks are not nice >> because that they love them. That's interesting to them. >> But that's where you're going. And that's just like I'll be honest with you, that's like in

fact it's my number one thing to h I don't understand people's audacity to think that people Should see the world the way they see it. I'm passionate about sharing my observations, >> but I'm in the business of conviction, not convincing. >> And I think we are all spending way too much time on convincing. I agree. Okay. I want to step into the agentic economy because I think we we see it quite similarly and we talked about it a little bit. You and you had painted an example at an event. You were doing a Fireside chat

and just in case anyone's listening that isn't familiar with what is going to happen in a voice first agentic economy. Can you give us an example of where we could be going and then we'll talk about what that could mean for people who think they have a message to say and how does the agent find you or a brand? Yeah, I think what you're setting me down a path of is this concept where you just walk in and you're just like, "Hey, Alexa, you know, I have six boys coming over for dinner tonight and I

want, you know, pizza and one of them's, you know, lactose intolerant. Enter." That's like, you're done. You don't even say enter. I'm I'm like laughing that I'm saying enter. You know, we're in a place where you're going to talk this out and if you do not name the brand or you're not specific, the Agentic is going to make the decision for you. It's a very big deal. We're also going To set our preferences. There is a day of reckoning coming where I can tell you for me, I'm going to set the deodorant I buy and

it will be set and repeat and the agent's going to buy it for me and I'm not going to be seduced by an endcap at Walmart and like will an ad on social media compel me enough to change my settings? Maybe. Actually, possibly. In fact, that could be the biggest of them all. you can really prove advertising in a world where imagine if Amazon buys Snapchat, has a feed during that short-term era as we're changing platforms and I see an ad for something and I'm not liking it. I'm actually resetting my preferences on the reordering

of my shampoo to this shampoo, you're going to find out how valuable advertising is fast. >> It is about to change so much. I think if you're buying a wedding dress, sure, you're going to be in the mix. you're going to be watching looking at >> or or check this out or for some people pickles. You're right about wedding dress. >> Sure. These high ticket items. >> Correct. I'm actually really fascinated by pickles. >> Do you like pickles? >> I do. >> Good. Me too. Do we like pickles enough that we're really going to be

deliberate about it? >> No. >> I don't I don't think so either for me, but let me give you one that I will be just because this is fun. Wine. >> Okay. I'm not going to be like, "Hey, agent, just $20 wine, whatever you think. Best deals, go." Uh-uh. I like wine too much. I'm going to be in there with It's going to be and >> 90% is going to be you. Price, convenience, set, reorder for me. Reorder like the product's going to be Internet of Things. When it's down to a Little bit, it'll reorder

itself. All that. >> But it'll be fun to see who cares enough about pickles to set pickles. Will you do per toothpaste? How do you feel about toothpaste? I'm I'm I'm >> chill. >> I'm chill on it. I'm chill. >> What? Give me something mundane that you're not chill about. >> Perfumements. Beautiful. There you go. So, let me say me could give a [ __ ] >> Okay. >> I'll be like whatever. Actually, back to like where the world's really going. I'll go to Atria, my bougie place here in the city. They're going to do

blood work and whatever the right math is, like I don't Right. So, like, but like for you, >> I'm comparing it. I'm running it through an AI. I'm just >> That's right. And you're going to not let a You're not going to be like, "Order supplements, just keep me good." No. we're going to converse about. And so that I'm painting the picture that I think we're all going to, which is we're going to all learn that everyone has things that they really care about. I mean, there are people listening right now that be like, I'm

not letting my AI order my beer. I'm going to be specific. >> Sure. And there's a place for you. >> That's what's going to be so awesome. We're all going to be in a place of and it's going to be so cool. We're going to figure out what we actually care about and things will change. I may have my beer set and forget just so I have beers for company and then I might go on a trip and I'm like, "Oh, I'm into micro bruise now." And then I might reset it. And that whole interface

of like watching your life of like what you care about, what you don't care about. Some people think you should really, you Know, I'm going to blow you away. You said car. I don't give a [ __ ] >> That's crazy cuz I know car is like big ticket. People really care. The logo, the color, the leather. I don't. So Gary will be like car, best price, best deal, like whatever the arbitrage is that I care about. Time, convenience, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. AI will meet you where you are and and for me >>

and where you are at all times >> and also you're going to set your Intention. So for me with the with food, I would be like, "Okay, I'm I have people coming over to pizza party organic. Try to go low on the microplastics if you can. Otherwise, this is my budget. I'm good. I don't need to see what it looks like, and I don't want to I don't need to pick things. Somebody else might not." >> My wife spends 15 hours trying to make sure every single part of the food she puts in her body

is clean. Now, AI will do that for her in a real way, too. But then how does the pizza parlor, the skinare, the supplement person, the somebody who has something to say break? Where are you in that stack? >> I don't know. And I kind of know here's what >> I have some ideas too. Okay, go. [laughter] >> So first, what Google did as being a toll booth For the world for 25 years is wildly misunderstood. Open Table, you know, uh, Kayak, uh, you know, Priceel Line, like the amount of companies that were built on

top of Google search >> to become massive companies on the arbitrage of Google ads, bookings.com, travel. I mean, it's insane. That's about to happen with LLMs, agents, and what have you. there's going to be but the question becomes Do the companies that have the control of our attention want to get into the businesses so will Google with Gemini during this era because there's so little friction will they decide instead of sending people to H&R Block do they want to become H&R Block >> does open Aai want to get the ad revenue from Geico >> or

do they want to compete with GEICO because everyone's going to go through Their funnel So to your point, how do you break through? One, this is going to send the world into a frenzy of understanding why brand is so important. >> You know, there is like this goes back to religion. >> Like things are going to have to really matter or it's just going to all happen in the backdrop. >> How you get something to matter will come in a million ways. Back to your point, I'm actually massively bullish on Experiential marketing. popping up at

Coachella and the Super Bowl, doing your own stuff, having a running club, hiking club, fishing club. I'm very into it. Again, I think the way the world's going to work >> is whether it's we're still going to live, right? You know, Ready Player One is going to come at some point, some version of it, but we're still going to live for a little while, especially us who are listening right now. >> I'm I'm going to the Super Bowl in a couple weeks. >> That's Saturday. I'm going to walk around before the game and do events

and go to parties. By the way, I really did take note of your t-shirt. It's funny you brought it up. >> I take note. I'm like, that's cool. I want that. Like, maybe I don't want my AI to keep ordering me blank >> black shirts. Maybe I want that one. I'm going to be able to in two like in two Seconds be like, I want that. >> And it's going to go cook. >> And so, like, in a lot of ways, >> it might be more extreme. See what I just might be more we no

friction. And you can have what you want all the way. And what makes us want something is word of mouth, a conversation, walking down the, you know, it's kind of like >> real life influence. >> Real life influence, right? But by the way, there's going to be something that We consume. >> Sure. We'll be digitally connected. No one's going Yeah. Whatever the, you know, whatever the YouTube or the Instagram or the Tik Tok of the day is, whether it's an AR app, I mean, look at if Meta wins, I promise you, Instagram's going to have

a place. If Meta wins this, they're not going to be like, you like, it's going to be something. And by the way, it may be as mundane. I'm looking at you right now. There's a blank wall here. It is potentially as mundane, and this will break your heart maybe, depending on on your vibes right now. Like it might be that scrolling. I don't think so. I do think in the short term it will be. >> I think sure. There's in between times >> like I said about the radio ad. Exactly. >> Long term definitely. >>

It's going to be unrecognizable. >> Oh yeah. Of of course because history has told us that. >> Yeah. Okay. So how does if you are an economist that has some course to sell or whatever it is that you're doing in the future understanding yes how how brand how things resonate with people how you sell a mission that you bring someone on on board. That's I feel like we're now in a time where it's really easy that Tik Tok finds you because of algorithms and that's the selling part. I think you're gonna have to make your

brand so Resonant and so because everything can be instant and everything is going to be much more I don't know. I I think it's going to be trickier but maybe easier. Yes, I think depends on where you are in the thinking about it. So, right. And notice I said the same thing. >> Yeah. >> Here's what you and I don't know >> which is why I don't even think about this [ __ ] I think about it in the macro, but I do not try to go further. >> It goes back to discovering Pearl Jam

in a bar. >> I will know when I see it. >> That's it. That That's it. >> You got it. You and I agree. I'm sure people are like, "Oh, wow." >> Yep. >> And I'm saying the next part that you're trying to do, you know, in your world that that is meaningful and you need to do you do you. I can tell you for me what's going to happen is when it's Here, >> you'll see a signal and you'll be like, "This is >> that's it." Yeah. Like when Vine was 5 seconds in, I'm

like this. >> Mhm. >> And then you know Jerome Jar and Logan Paul and King Batch and like I understood it and I also knew I'm like uh-oh short form. Remember 6 seconds only. >> Yeah. >> And I was like uhoh this is a new paradigm, right? >> And now here we are, right? Like we're in a shorter form snackable, >> you know, not some people think it's slop. >> I'm like, okay, like one man's slop is another man's dinner, right? Yeah. So, you know, I think that I think the principles are the same. I

think you're right. I think I I'll tell you what I like about your vibe. I think you're Right that we're in the very early pre-do. Yes. I think I think you're right. I in fact I know Let me phrase. I really think you're right that we're in the beginnings of the crack. I think that you're young. I I can tell you what mistakes I made. I thought they were going to happen faster. >> Yeah. I'll never forget when I launched wine library.com in July of 1997. >> Thank god I wasn't making prediction videos. I was

like by the year 2000, Right? >> Everybody will buy everything on the internet. Yeah. Yeah. So you you know these gray hairs come in handy. >> Notice how I said some things you're like oh wow when I said 10 year you know >> it takes time because look at what's happening with AI. >> There's so many dynamics you can't predict. >> Several years ago I was like oh [ __ ] because I have some nerdy ass friends. Oh, [ __ ] AI is getting close, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I don't think I

could have even understood how profound it really was, but I was like, "Oh, it's coming close." I could have never predicted then, even though I was I knew it was close, that there would be such a backlash >> because I couldn't have predicted that everyone was going to be so scared shitless that they were going to lose Their job, that they're going to be mad at AI in any form. M >> do you know that most people's negative opinions of AI in a commercial in content is all actually predicated on their own fear that they're

going to lose their job because of AI. As you know, they're not even going to know if it was AI generated or not. The technology is too profound. >> We're all going to consume unlimited content in 24 months and have no [ __ ] Clue if it's real or not. Now the girl's blurry and you're like, "Oh, that's an AI model." We're dangerously close for no one having any chance of guessing. >> I think we're already here. I agree. I think we're I can tell. I don't think anyone can tell. >> I think we're in

an era where Let me say it a different way. I agree that every person listening has consumed an AI person and did not >> But I think you know what I'm about to Say. Many are consuming AI people in their feeds right now and they can tell it's AI. Got it. So that's going to go away. >> Yeah. >> So I'm with you on the on the first part. I know that. Yeah, >> it's the second part that's going to get them. >> And where AI gets really interesting to me because the the pressure that

I think we know we're at the beginning of Whatever is going to come next in social, we're seeing the cracks. It's not even unique to social media as an industry. Any tech company that was any tech incumbent born of the internet era is feeling the pressure. We're seeing it with dating apps. Netflix. Okay, so Netflix stepping into the creator economy. They're going to be putting some YouTube videos on Netflix podcasts. Great. Everybody was really excited. the headlines where this is amazing. Amazing If you're a creator or podcaster. I didn't see this as a good signal

for Netflix. To me, this is an incumbent under stress. They're stepping into a mature industry. Podcasting and the creator economy is it's a mature industry. We're going on almost two decades. Netflix is a tech company. Yes, they're in the business of Hollywood, but they are first and foremost an innovator. And for them to not be reinventing and instead stepping to me, This is consolidation. >> Let me tell you how my Let me tell you what my I Let me tell you how I process that. Yes. And and Okay. >> That's it. I think you're you're

right. It's abs. It's the classic H. It's the last 80 years of media. >> Consolidation, fragmentation, pendulum swings. Consolidate, break up, new things come up. Consolidate, break up. I mean, it's the same old [ __ ] >> Summer Redstone was trying to do this 25 Years ago with Viacom. Like in cable, it's all the same thing. >> Um, >> but we don't know what they're doing. That's one thing for you and I that like you know >> to look at the market signals but we don't know what they're actually working on >> especially in the

game that they're all playing now which is the secrets of what they're working on have too much value >> and no one and that's even with AI companies no one's talking anymore because everyone's copying what I'm waiting for in entertainment and I'm I'm actually not interested in watching a movie with digital twins of Leo and Brad Pitt to me that's not interesting and that again isn't what the future is just an automated present I think no one's doing that or hopefully not what's interesting to me is the kid that's in their basement right now working

with AI To bring in a new type of entertainment that we can't even imagine. And it seems so radical as going from Broadway to movies, it's a different type of entertainment experiment. >> And I think when the distribution is more voice and glasses and not phone and it's going to all make sense. >> Correct. To your point, I could not agree more. There's a seven-year-old girl right now in her basement in Toronto. >> Yeah, of course. who is working on something and she will be our Scorsesei and our Spielberg and it's going to be an

immersive AR environment and we're going to be like, "Holy fuck." It's >> and it's totally obvious. That's right. >> And it's great. >> Mhm. >> And it's great. >> Yeah. >> But I also think in the same way that from an ironic lens, people want to read A newspaper. >> Totally. They'll want to sit down and watch a movie >> or reboot their old iPhone from 2026. >> Nostalgic. and go through like I think social in feed. >> You're so young. You're going to see the whole thing. You're going to see people doing it in

40 years as a counter to full immersive. This is going to seem like the simple day. >> Yeah. Yeah. And when you power this with AI, and this gets interesting, when you you have all your photos, you have all of your calendar, everything that you've done on your phone, you could one day theoretically pass this to AI and say, "Make me a documentary of my life." >> I mean, and by the way, I mean, that's why I filmed myself every day. >> Oh, you're going to have Yeah. like for five and a for seven years.

>> You're passing that down to your kids. >> Oh my god. The I mean there's we are so Aligned. You're right. Like the early videos is like I know this is weird. I'm having a man follow me in a camera back in 2015 when I did Daily V. >> I'm like but do you understand that I didn't know either of my grandfathers? Do you know how cool this is that my grandchildren are going to be able to like really know who I was? Not all like me. Holy cow. Only famous people used to have a

glimpse. This is way deeper. >> Yeah. Footage of your life. Okay. Okay. So, if people are listening though and they're they hear us talking about the creator economy is going to look like something different. We're going eventually somewhere else and you're on a maybe a 5 10 year time frame even though things are starting to change now. I mean, I'm a creator so I benefit from this world and I know it's changing. What should creators be doing today to start positioning themselves for what's Coming? Going more a agent first. How should we what should we

be posting doing? Showing up >> not getting over crippled by tomorrow. Yep. >> So, it's flying two planes at once. >> So, step one in all this noise, keep doing what you're doing if it's working. >> Yeah. >> The more people know who you are, no matter what happens in technology, that is going to matter. So, I actually would Argue the number one thing a creator can do right now is squeeze the living [ __ ] out of the discoverability that is Tik Tok. >> I have transformed to every platform. Mhm. >> I'm one of

the few humans on earth that has millions of followers from LinkedIn to Snap. >> Yeah. >> YouTube to Facebook, right? I've done it in real time. >> In fact, it's one of my biggest pet peeves of creators that they're too onedimensional. >> That they're they're only on one or two platforms. So, I go vertical. This is going to go horizontal. And so, that's got a whole different thing to it. >> But the amount of brand and awareness they create right now will service them incredibly well, >> right? Yeah. >> Now, the transition, here's where you're

Going. The transition of like we're all here and now we're all over here. >> They have to make sure they make that transition, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Cuz the MySpace friends I had did not. >> Dane Cook could be the biggest. I mean, he had whatever his wants and needs are, Tila Tequila, whatever her wants and needs are, their personalities, but they didn't take their MySpace fame and Attack Facebook and Twitter the way I thought they should or could have. Yeah. >> Right. So, I think it's extracting, >> but this other plane has to

start to be built where you have to start challenging yourself to know what's coming >> you need to know what lovable is and vibe coding. Maybe it works for you. You need to know what's going on with live shopping because you might be better at the QVC part than the content stuff. You Need to start trying to use an agent or AI or for research. Like, you have to start getting on the treadmill because the marathon's coming. >> Yeah, it's >> right. So, you got to get on the treadmill. You don't have to become you

in a [ __ ] savant or technically deep, >> but you have to start flirting. >> You have to start flirting while extracting. Yeah. >> I can tell you for myself, I plan on Going nowhere. >> Yeah. >> And I'm trying to extract the [ __ ] out of the current. >> And I'm dangerous and I'm knowledgeable about tomorrow. >> And what it seems like you've done, and I think every creator needs to be able to do is what is your value proposition? You have to be able to answer the question. What is your value

proposition decoupled from the medium of the moment? So it doesn't matter what the platform is is of this moment. Maybe it's YouTube, maybe it's Tik Tok, maybe it's whatever comes next, but what your value proposition is, you can translate it on all the platforms. >> Well, this is why I've told so many people through the years like don't trade on looks, they go away. Don't trade on, you know, like like what are you trading on? >> Yeah. What's your mission? And what's Your value? >> It's it's whatever the medium of the moment is, it should

be independent of that. It's above that. >> Well, that's why everything's worked for me. Like I'm audience. What's in it for them? Mhm. >> I'm in a full 5149 mindset with the world. >> I want to give it more than I'm asking for in return. >> Yeah. >> Makes me feel like I can never lose agree. >> This podcast, what am I doing here? >> I'm desperately trying to say something >> that brings value to your audience. I have context for your audience. It allows me to deliver content that has a higher propensity to do

well. >> I'm not worried about like who's going to discover me. I'll take it. >> I'm I'm a human. I'd like it. Yeah, >> I'm deaf. I'll tell you one thing cuz I Know how I roll. I really hope that somebody who used to think I was a bozo cuz I was yelling in 13 videos like, "Wait a minute, there's a little more depth to that Gary Vee than I, of course, I'm a human, >> but my main intent is I need to respect this distribution. >> We're here now. your context and how do I

as a human being say things that might bring value that might be a complement to the things they're hearing from you Which gives them two data cents that allows oh >> it wasn't me siloed it was you prepping them three episodes ago saying something that's been in their head I have a little spin on it a different voice on it and all of a sudden >> Yep. Yep. And okay, and this would be more of a personal question. You're over under on live. I know you're saying live shopping is the future and I think it's

the present. >> It's the present. Do you think that that's also the on-ramp to where we're going next in terms of a social ecosystem? >> Well, it's happening too. In fact, I would argue Twitch and Kick and these live streamers, Kais and like, you know, Aiden, I would say that's even further along than live shopping. >> I would say live is very obvious. >> Massive. Yeah, >> I think you would slay. It's a huge Commitment. It's a crazy thing. It's not for most because it's a level of like always on that is intense and but

like >> I would say what's going on on Twitch and kick right now YouTube live is massive and I think in doses like you know a 24hour aathon with you answering hey everybody on the podcast I'm sure all of you would love her to commit from a 9 to9 12-h hour available to you come to this Twitch answer I'll answer questions because right now you're Getting her brilliance through the podcast they want to be able to interact. Yeah, >> that's the digital version of what you're talking about in analog. That's the halfway point. >> Yeah.

Live. And it's really interesting because it's participatory. Everybody's there together. So, it's not just asynchronous like social. Yeah. It's sports. It's real. And you It's only in this moment and it never happens again. >> It's awesome. >> And to me, I don't know if it's >> But not only does But it's actually double good >> because then you can share it after. >> Of course, they clip the [ __ ] out of it, put it everywhere, build more when it's right. >> I just want to say something to you that I also think um is

going to really land for everyone else. You strike me as dangerously close to a Next level. >> And I'm going to say something right now that I desperately hope brings you value because it's wildly intended for that. If as I'm recapping this last hour, the more you think about the not what's not working, but what's about to work, >> I feel like that's going to really service you well. Thank you. >> My ability to not dwell or get myself Overconerned about the many things that are not working >> because in a macro I have incredible

belief in the human race >> because we've proven it will actually create a different energy in you that I think will extract your brilliance even more. >> I genuinely believe that. >> Thank you. It's on the record so we'll take note. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Do you see where I'm going? >> Yeah. I think you're just a conscious person, you know. I think that helps you a lot. And I think, you know, man, for you know, there's so many things that are challenges and there's so much going on. But I think

the reason I got into root causes, self-esteem, parent, like real [ __ ] >> is all these are just byproducts, >> you know? >> Like I don't know. I think we're we're In an incredible place. And don't forget, I'm part of the era 2008 Obama, all the like this this stuff was changing the world. It was nirvana. We're on the other side now where a lot of the we're getting exposed >> to, you know, our shortcomings are coming out, our angst is coming out. >> They definitely are. >> I think technology is wildly historically obvious

that it has been net good for humans. >> Penicellin was a good invention. >> Electricity was a good invention. The automobile was a good invention. And unfortunately, someone today will you will drive drunk and hit someone. You know, >> I think we focus on the 0.001% of bad >> and don't see the 99% that's good. I really believe that, by the way. >> And I think for you specifically, the way you're thinking and the way you're rolling, >> I felt very compelled to share that. >> Thank you. I'll take it. >> Thank you. >> This

is a pleasure. >> For me, too. >> That's a wrap. What impact do you think AI will have on the workforce? And do you think we're headed for an identity crisis? >> And this is the question that's fascinating about AI. What else can I become? Very few people have the courage To ask that question. Why? Because they look in the mirror in the morning and they see an engineer or a doctor. They don't see a person. >> If they're not looking at artificial intelligence and asking, "What are we going to become with this technology?" Would

you say it's the beginning of the end for