FAKE Naturals, Teen Oral-Only Cycles EPIDEMIC, Steroid Info OVERSATURATION feat. Tanner Tattered

That the main mindset I think among younger guys is if you rewind time and you remember what you were like as a kid it's like when someone tells you no it just makes you want to do it more like why would I listen yeah of course I was the same dude yeah yeah that's how I made all my mistakes exactly vigor's podcast with a new guy on the Block there's a new educator in town Tanner tattered welcome to the show Buddy happy to be on it's a blessing thank you thank you yeah I mean I

saw your Instagram come past a couple times on my recommendation feed and then I saw myself and like what what the hell is going on here you use kind of as a reference when you talk about you know PDS and safer practices so I started following you and I like what you're doing man I mean you're bringing all of this uh content you know from Old Timers like myself Adding your own influx to like a younger generation um which is great because you know like for the third Educators it takes you know it takes years

right before you're at that level you feel like educating and of course you've been researching for a long time but your audience is probably a lot younger than my audience so I I want to thank you personally for sharing the message and and spreading the knowledge to all these young dudes Out there because you're you're literally saving lives and preventing a lot of mistakes for the guys that don't want to listen to old farts like me so I had to get started in this uh this social media game yeah so it's an interesting little story

um I did start on Tick Tock it was one summer you know classes are finished and I get the tick tock app I'm scrolling on it I like watching a lot of different creators and I kind of start following That classic recipe you know you'll see someone working out there's like a motivational quote inspirational sort of gym content and you go down that road and you realize it's very oversaturated you know a lot of people do that same kind of thing so it's hard to make yourself stand out um at the same time I was

interested in Pharmacology you know I've seen some of Derek's videos I'd watch you and Leo and um somewhere along the way I see a lot Of misconceptions about anabolics and enhancements especially in the younger generation which they'll only hear bits and pieces here and there and so they think to themselves oh you know I'll do my first cycle and I'll look like Chris Bumstead after it you know I wish I've been I've been doing stairs for like 15 years I still thought it looked like Chris bumps did unfortunately right and so so that was the

first video that came out was I I said you know hey Realize your expectations here if you are going to get on a cycle for the first time and that got a lot of popularity that was the first video I had ever made touching on enhancements and so I went down that road of all right there's some pretty low-hanging fruit of myths to debunk and just spreading that basic information to guys and giving them a more level-headed idea of what this stuff actually is and how to approach it in a safer and more Moderate way

right right right so what I noticed over the last couple of years that you know when you get to like you know larger YouTube channel you want to educate beginners all the way to the top of the people that are have been doing this for decades sometimes a little bit difficult for me to like kind of relay my message because I do expect people to have some sort of knowledge on the back end when they're interested but sometimes they realize like you know the Audience this could be like complete beginners and I'm at a point

where I don't even know how to dumb it down so far that even beginners could understand right and then you know I've been doing this for such a long time that I I feel like I'm kind of losing touch with the younger audience because I'm also getting older and I I don't know what it is like to be you know not financially secured to the point I can just do blood work every month and afford the Pharmaceutical grade then source that everywhere sometimes I really have to take step back like wait a minute how how

would I survive when I was like you know teenager early 20s yeah that's why I like what you're doing because you're literally just trying to teach these kids and and younger people like well wait a minute slow down right it's it's not required like what what are the common misconceptions that you kind of see pass along your Tick Tock and Instagram platform like what what is going on with the younger crowd nowadays yeah so um there's definitely Trends and misconceptions I think at a fundamental level there's just not that understanding like so what you're saying

about how it's difficult to like dumb it down to a certain level or even a complete beginner can understand you have to kind of speak the language a little bit you know there's there's a little bit of foundational understanding You need to start watching your videos and getting like 100 out of it right yeah uh you know basic things like testosterone aromatizes into estrogen right that's something that guys should know as they're they're getting into this space so um a lot of the misconceptions I see is about cycle design they'll see a steroid touted as

being popular Trend alone notorious right they start thinking to themselves oh I can just do Trend right That's a steroid I can do my first cycle of that Trend only cycle is probably not not a good uh idea for your first time yeah right yeah so there's one of them and it kind of just rolls from there little things that might not be as intelligent like if you're afraid of injecting that's actually I think a good barrier to entry to getting on steroids and so they might try to do a d-ball only cycle or anabar

only cycle some things that Have mixed results I would say yeah and it's funny whenever I make a video about that that portal only Cycles are not a good idea and I try to explain hpta down regulation and because you're losing out on testosterone and estradiol and everything in between right and you still need to do a PCT which of course is easy because those are tablets too in most cases um a lot of people are still 40s overall only cycles and it doesn't help that Guys like Dr Mike Israel is like telling everybody like

oh you want to go you know you go and cycle Andover only is totally fine like Mike yeah bro you should know better right at least at least make the make the entry of uh the barrier of Entry a little bit higher some people really think it through right you do need to inject and otherwise they're going to reinvent the wheel with anavar and then in clomorphine monotherapy so you got two Tablets now extra liver stress nothing about Liver Health Management yeah so do you see that a lot like a lot of kids are just

or young guys that are wanting to start in like no injections for me it's it's super common and it's especially true of uh teenagers because you know they live with their parents and they don't want their mom to find a bunch of needles right but they still want they still want gains right you know they still want to get bigger and So uh one of the really popular things is say like incoming and the sarm or um you know maybe HCG in the storm but again back to the injections uh thankfully I think I've hammered

it into enough people that at least just telling them these suppressive effects of an oral steroid something like anavar or d-ball probably not worth trying to force an offset with incomaphene but you know you can't really you know you're not gonna break in these people's houses And take the stuff out of their hands right it's very hard I wish I wish I was do you get it sometimes that you know these young guys start to quote your studies where anovar doesn't show any hpta down regulation for like eight weeks or 16 weeks at moderate doses

like you know but you know Tanner what about this study where it shows that I can take anavar without having my luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone suppressed does that Happen to you too because uh I mean sometimes they the all the evidence against you you know right there's obviously cases like that but honestly if someone's at the point where they're citing studies to me I'm already a little more optimistic about where they're going at uh typically if someone's saying like no like my buddy at the gym told me I can do it and it's

fine then I'm a little bit worried it's you know it's that differentiation Between like are you actually looking at the literature and are you looking at all of the literature not just hey there's this one or two studies that supports my bias be careful there right oh don't worry that will happen when you're 50 years old also I know plenty of Educators who like to quote one but now we're not going to go there I won't drag you into it but trust me dude next week there will be Instagram Posts about you too just don't

pay it anymore I've already been there I've already you've already been there dude but then you're successful that's what Paul Burnett also told me he said listen if if you're not successful unless you haven't made it to the [ __ ] master class yet um and otherwise right you're not part of the fitness industry so if you're already there and do good on you man good on you congratulations Yeah that was a wild experience but you know I feel like I'm free from those chains the posts have stopped it's good all right okay I don't

know they'll be back after the boss guys yeah yeah so the funny thing is about the fitness industry is that you know the the more information and love and and attention and knowledge you're sharing you know the negativity will come as well and that's just part of the fitness industry right even if you you know put your best Leg forward 100 of the time you know people always try to find faults for you and that's why it's so tough I think the social media for guys that are a little bit younger um even though they've

had you know access to social media their entire lives like it does get tough when you start growing like like Joe Aesthetics for example he grew very rapidly and then sometimes people were really hammered into him and it took him a While to kind of get over that you know and of course the same people were now talking about them were the same people were talking smack when he was still alive and it's yeah but this is social media you know this is the Avenue that you chose um you'll only just have to get hardened

because it's it can be pretty brutal sometimes and the funny thing is if you slip up somewhere and you know half the Industry is really to remind you a month later they've forgotten about yeah that's what's so interesting about it is you know you now become this public figure everything you're saying is is being watched and monitored by people and it's strange you know as much as you want to be yourself online and be as natural and as comfortable as you are there's certain there's certain areas where you think like well I don't know if

I do say something that's kind of a Personal opinion maybe people are going to tackle that is is that scientific fact because he's in you know an educator in that space right and you know yeah you're walking around eggshells there yeah exactly you always yeah you set a sentence for Derek for me Paul chase you I mean everybody's basically walking on eggshells and the funny thing is is that everything we're doing is very circumstantial right so you apply particular methods of Performance enhancing drugs and and Health Management in a certain context you have a certain

goal a certain risk tolerance like my risk tolerance might not be the same as somebody else's Rich tolerance I I've seen my liver enzymes go to 200 units per liter and then come right back I'm like okay if I'm at 200 temporarily I'm fine but a guy that's just getting started or or doesn't have so much experience with their body they're like oh Maybe that's you know maybe I have a liver failure right but for a guy with experience for me I'm like you know I've seen so much blood work like okay it's high it's

alarmingly high but we can fix it right right if you're doing a show okay maybe it is you know 100 to 200 units uh on your alt and ASD is warranted so over time you kind of develop more knowledge that goes away from the medical field and especially when you Realize that most of the medical literatures just performed in a single context on a single drug and what we do is polypharmacy yeah we combine two three five ten twenty different drugs together and this is where the scientific evidence kind of is lost because there's no

studies to recite or quote from because they haven't been performed you know so so maybe maybe in a hundred years you know guys like us will look a little bit smarter because We're ahead of our time and we can fill in the blanks you know so so when when did you get started on this ped Journey like what is your background on this uh yeah uh so it's been pretty recent uh and it's interesting because it's been about um like almost two years now that I've been in the gym and lifting and there was a

little bit of that beforehand you know I was in a fraternity at college and so occasionally you go and like pick Up some weights with your buddies but it's not actual bodybuilding right so once things got serious for me my introduction to it was Ronnie Coleman and so my immediate thought in my head was how do I look like that right and right you gotta go test that ever a lot yeah exactly a little melanchand to help out there yeah um but uh you know the immediate thought is wow how do I look like that

I know I'm probably never gonna get there but That was the opening door to well I guess enhancements are involved you know it's not like he just eats chicken rice and broccoli all day long and it looks like that barbecue and Masterpiece barbecue sauce don't forget the Masterpiece yeah and duck eggs you know yeah no no I mean if you watch those old Ronnie Coleman videos he puts like Masterpiece barbecue sauce and everything oh is that what he said and then yeah and and his coach Chad Nichols Literally worked all those sugars that he got

from the barbecue sauce into his diet so he would reduce the carbohydrates a little bit just to compensate for the barbecue sauce I know dude everybody got on that barbecue sauce I had a friend import that when he they watched the DVDs yeah from Ronnie Combs uh that barbecue sauce must be anabolic this is how impressionable you are when you're younger yeah it's hilarious I I Was more thankful to grow up in the information age where I know that the barbecue sauce is it's a different kind of sauce that he's been using yeah I start

you know poking around message boards and finding out like little bits and pieces and the real uh eye-opening experience for me was uh I saw some article somewhere about it a Deca d-ball cycle and I was like oh yeah like that's that's what I'm gonna do that's gonna be my first cycle and I talked to one Buddies about it who who knows about these this stuff at least more than me at the time and he was like you really gotta go back to the drawing board and I I got there for a second and I

thought and I was like well why like I don't understand what I did wrong and so I really started researching it after that scouring everything rather than just jumping straight into it and it was during that time you know I find you guys realize okay if I'm gonna start With anything it's just gonna be testosterone so since then my journey has just been that first cycle of testosterone was 300 milligrams a week uh I did experiment pushing up the 500 seeing if my body tolerated it my estrogen levels got really high but I actually didn't

get any side effects which was really interesting and then uh came off the cycle have been cruising basically ever since so that is that's where I'm at Yeah so that's the extent of it so well I've had okay the cruising the cruising there's been some experimentation because my tendency to be a lab rat I'm sure you understand um has been you know micro dosing Trend alone here and there see if I can get the like CEO type effects out of it and then um other things I got a coach recently and his protocol uh Deca

masteron testosterone growth hormone and seeing how that would uh work for my Body that's the extent of my ped knowledge and beyond that it's just been talking with mentors and people who have the experience because I do have to Outsource that I'm I can't you know do everything right away it is going to take time right all right it took me basically a decade before I felt ready to kind of open my mouth on on YouTube and Instagram yeah in the meantime I mean I made plenty of mistakes um experimenting with stuff you go to

The Message Board same as you you get the wrong the wrong information you think that you know but you don't really know yeah and then you have to get your hands dirty right so I've been actively trying to give back just preventing people from making the same mistakes but sometimes people will still still do it or they think that it it sounds actually quite cool when Steve talks about it even though I do admit to the mistakes yeah it's it's a funny journey in that Sense um so what you'll see is that you know some

people will walk or you know take from the knowledge that you give them and and make good decisions like you did right you're like wait a minute you got some feedback and then you made a better decision to structure your cycle a little bit more intelligently but you know 9 out of 10 people will already fail there and like and they'll be Stubborn as I you know I forget it I don't care what this guy says I'm gonna do it anyway and trust me I dude I'm not laying blame it was exactly the same that

was exactly the same right trend on the second cycle I did it too yeah you know so yeah this way you kind of learn over time and then I I think now the information out there is so much better that you don't really have to make terrible mistakes right um unless you really don't want to learn But now the knowledge is everywhere you know it's out in the public like back in the day I I really had to go you know dig deep in the message boards to really find quality information and even then it

was subpar so what you can do you know on PubMed or under research websites so in your inbox you've got questions about train every single day now uh surprisingly it's been fading out which is kind of nice I mean you hammer It into their heads enough times like hey it's not you know light work it's it's pretty serious stuff so you know people are getting getting the idea and I think that's true of anything in the space is that there are certain myths that float around and as these Educators constantly hammer on them again and

again eventually they start to slowly fade away which is pretty good like how estrogen used to be thought of as like being bad because it's like the woman Hormone and that's yeah that's now fading out that took a long time to go away though right take a lighter yeah I really wonder what's going to happen over the next couple of years you know with all this information now being more to the Forefront because you even see the ifb pros opening up more and more and more and you know it's good for the guys that are

a little bit older but I do think that it might be harmful for the guys That are a little bit younger because now they think they know um and then it might be more incentivized to start earlier right like I was 26 when I started taking PDS and I did you know an ampoule of tests 250 milligrams a week because I thought you know 500 milligrams was way too high and I read those Debo uh psychologs you know with the d-ball Kickstart I read all those psychologs.stair.com and professional Muscle and all that stuff and I

figured you know what all these guys get side effects in week four or five and then they the psycholog ends because they had to abort their cycle because they got their acne and gyno and puffy face you know you see sometimes see before and after pictures or people with edema and stuff so I realized okay just test bioidentical right right and even then you know with consecutive Cycles you Make some some you know some mistakes here and there but I think nowadays dude there's really no excuse to make horrible mistakes uh unless you're really gung-ho

about doing it and you know the funny thing is like at your age brackets you see all these uh kids kicking ass right on social media like Sam rasulek and there's so many new guys and they're like early 20s yeah and they look house They look house and I think it's very clicky uh that group because I see all these influencers they're usually between like 18 to 25 years old they're all on trt or more or running heavy Cycles they get mad famous internet famous right right and and you know their followings are huge so

they make big bucks already from the beginning because I mean you got a couple sponsors now and you know the revenue that's involved with that I mean Are you already passed what you think you could make with an employee or employer like it blows my mind when I look at the numbers I didn't I did not realize how lucrative it could be and it's you know it's it's just insane to see the success and that's just me I have 30 000 followers on Instagram and you know my Tick Tock got banned it used to be

50 000. I imagine with these guys with 200 000 you know 500 000 what they're doing It's not actually I've seen the statistics from gorilla mines I mean some of these influencers to make you know the 10 20 50 000 per month and that's just the the supplement sponsored you know and yeah of course I got very large followings but their their early 20s and they don't know what to do with the money they've never learned about investment about you know I mean they're first out of high school some of them don't follow high school

or finish high school you know so you don't really have that background of how to manage your money and I think a lot of kids nowadays that really want to be a part of that scene because oh now you have money now you can be flashy now you can show off you can buy all the cool clothes that you know people want you to buy like when you're older you don't give a [ __ ] about that you just wear the Same stuff yeah yeah you know I look at the old generation of bodybuilders we

all look dead broke right even though we're not they just don't care anymore but when you're young it really matters you know you need to wear the young LA and your uh clothes or or uh Vanquish or whatever else is popular nowadays you need to particular pre-workouts otherwise you don't belong do you see that a lot in your age group where where kids are just Like you know really eager to get started on social media with gear um because they want to be part of that Elite exclusive club that is making money yeah so it's

a really interesting way to look at it in a clicky fashion and it's one thing to be taking it as a click is like oh I need to buy the clothing I need to fit into this demographic because everyone else is doing this everyone else is doing that and exactly like I'm saying it's like One thing if it's the clothing or it's like oh everyone uses gorilla mind everyone go take their supplements it's another thing if it's steroids and it's like you know if I want to feel like I fit in I have to get

on and you scroll on social media you scroll on Tick Tock you see all of these people saying you know I'm natural or whatever and they they have these insane physiques right absolutely incredible and you start thinking to yourself well I don't look Like that I've been Lifting for longer than he has how does that make any sense and the natural next step for a lot of people especially when insecurity comes in you know you're a young guy you want to feel like you fit in you want to feel cool that next step could be

getting enhanced out of a place of insecurity or out of a place of wanting to belong and then you know you're in over your head a little bit getting on I would argue for the wrong reasons Yeah I I see it happen a lot more often than not then there's also younger guys that are open about their Syracuse I mean you got the trend twins for [ __ ] sake yeah you know promoting Trend basically I mean I don't think that they're only on Trend but they do look good and they're having a great time

in the gym but I mean it will be I'm trying to imagine what it would be like when I if I was younger like 15 18 20 years old at this day and Age if I would be just as impressionable as everybody else um because I I decided to wait until I was 26 right to take steps right exactly that's after that's after 11 years the drug-free bodybuilding and then during years and years and years of research because I didn't feel ready and the time and place wasn't really right because I was trying to make

a career as a business consultant so you feel like you know what I can do a cycle but I can't Really commit to everything that's needed when you're doing a cycle I want to make the gains yeah right and I'm a little bit worried about my health but I think nowadays when those kids see the potential for social media and they see that they're all their social media stars are on steroids and maybe lying about it I mean if you look impressed if you're probably on steroids yes you know this is to be expected so

I Think they're taking the plunge a lot earlier you know what I I I had this discussion with Joe Aesthetics about five years ago and he said something very interesting he's like Steve you know at one point there's going to be a generation of instagrammers and Youtubers with no real skills besides milking the algorithm they can do they can transfer any knowledge they just look good because they have a good physique from their Parents and it they'll take steroids but they don't know how to educate they don't know how to coach they don't know how

to you know transfer this all they know is looking good until the next guy that looks good comes around or they get injured and then they're obsolete yeah and it's coming from Joe you know five six years ago before it really blew up and I do think that's going to happen because now it seems like overly saturated I if I scroll I just see new Kids come and go come and go all the time you know they get injured and then it's off to the next guy you're under and the worst thing is that they're

now you know severely depressed because they have to come off cycle the revenue streams dry up because you know on their entire fan basis moves to the next guy yep and they didn't really learn how to you know do something else with it so my advice is always you know it's just you know leverage your following and just Try to monetize it but multiple rivering streams because yeah you know at one point one of them might dry up so you already started started doing consultations so your uh your inbox doesn't get flooded I I saw

right yeah so the the consultations I added that kind of as a you know if someone sends me a message and it's you know three paragraphs of details you know it's like it's probably gonna be best if we just talk face to face about this and you Know you you value my time I value yours all of that it's a mutually beneficial relationship there and then um the beyond that like if it's just quick questions and I can handle those but yeah the consultations have been really cool because it's interesting to speak with guys that

are older than me but who just don't have the knowledge it puts me in this strange space where it's like oh this is kind of flipped like I mean I know being a student being in the Classroom an older person is talking to me and then suddenly it's switched it's like this guy kind of looks like my professor now I'm telling him about things it's a it's an interesting it's good yeah no but that's good but then you already have the confidence and the you know or not the confidence you have the respect of the

audience right which is difficult to do with your age and trust me I was in the same position when and I was starting to do business Consulting when I was like 21 years old yeah nobody takes you serious dude nobody's you really have to fight for it and just go through the grinder work the extra overtime before people actually start to listen even though you might have more knowledge on particular subjects than the next guy who's been there for for a long time so now if you're already getting older dudes you know if you're when

you start getting them in their 40s and 50s you know then Then that's that's another measurement of success you know just keep doing what you're doing and they'll get more and more and more until the rates have to go up and then you're you know exactly what it feels like to be in my position yeah exactly what you said about like diversifying your your income streams though I mean I I feel a little concerned for the guys who are built entirely on physique for exactly the reasons you're saying you know they get Injured and it

can be as quickly as over for them they might still have that reputation they might still have some loyal followers but there's always that bigger fish there's always that like next big thing and people kind of jump ship and move to that right that's that can be really hard on using so unless you have like something else that you offer like kind of a specification within your Niche then I Think It's tricky to stay relevant afterwards you Know I know uh Bradley Martin is a good example who used to do the whole gym thing and

then has now translated over into owning his own business and having his his podcast more as a personality and less for his physique that that puts you in a more stable position you know if there's any end game that would be pretty nice it's something like that rather than I just look good all year round you can't look good into your 60s and 70s man there's going to be a point When it runs out right mid 30s already it starts to go downhill trust me it sucks and then you start thinking about kids you know

you have to come off cycle like I've been off cycle for like close to seven months now and the reason why I'm so relevant and you will stay relevant if you come off cycle and do you know do something where you don't look freaky it's because you have something unique to present knowledge yeah and knowledge is always relevant You know until till people really get bored for you and you don't reinvent yourself with new knowledge then as long as that point comes you just stay relevant so when I'm whether I'm tiny right completely off cycle

and fasting for a couple weeks just to get you know starve particular issues off and then come back on cycle my audience would still grow the same and you'll see the same for you whether you're on a cycle or trt or post Psychotherapy or take a Whole year off from the gym as long as you present an audience that people can learn from then you will continue to provide value and that's why I like the educator space more than the influencer space because even though the influencer space you can grow 10 times faster and make

money times times faster it does come with like a five to seven year half shelf life and after that it's it's kind of over I mean look at the old generation of uh Facebook and Instagram uh celebrities you know or YouTube celebrities completely irrelevant yeah right now all been replaced now most of them already retired and and of course some of them invested really well into gyms like Bradley Martin for example he's got a brain James he's got a clothing line I'm sure he's got some sponsors he knows how to podcast he puts a couple

ads here and there with those ad placements he probably makes like five to ten thousand Dollars per ad placement so you know I mean it adds up at the end of the month yeah and I mean the ad placements are I mean I get these requests all the time you know when you have a bigger platform people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on on ad placement it's uh it's insane you know so you gotta stay relevant in that aspect and you see with flex Lewis also just doing the podcast right yep so what

about what what direction are You gonna go in just educating or you're gonna stick your shirt off at one point and start flexing your abs and doing these words or exercises that nobody needs yeah well you know they'll be paying homage to Joe for for those kinds of things but uh even his exercises are just they're really good too just very creative right very creative yeah yeah it's good to get the audience going but sometimes it was you know for Bodybuilders who would look at it and like you know yeah okay interesting yeah exactly so

my uh my Outlook on things would is definitely to engage in the educator space first and it's not it's an it's an interesting space because a lot of the guys that are established right now you guys have an insane wealth of knowledge and a lot of it is because you've researched for so long that you've now hyper-specified into these Very particular areas and so if you wanted to make you know a super in-depth video on check drops for example you probably could and then other guys where if they're coming to me for information they're usually

in that you know uh 1825 age demographic and they're looking for you know I don't know anything about this how do I get things going how do I get a basic understanding and so it's it's really just going to be that reintroduction and hammering in of the Basics and also when you guys bring up interesting topics or something that forwards the um you know the application of safer use then that's something I can lean into translate for a younger audience and then spread basically because as this is something I think is really important that a

lot of people don't do but even in my little document on my website um I have a list of of all of these Educators in the space some that I like Some that I don't like and at least just to put the information all out there and let them know these are all the sources of information I want their knowledge to be widely distributed right right I'm I'm basically acting as a catalyst for a lot of that beyond the education I do really love bodybuilding and so I'm wondering where I might be able to go

there obviously after I've done my first cycle I know that I'm not going to be Ronnie Coleman but uh right ah it's hard No way right shock surprise yeah right if I was like 14 with 18 inch arms then maybe that would be a different situation but um like uh just to push my body and see where I can get to and then do little experiments and show the the audience that you can do do these things and you can manage side effects safely and just to debunk certain issues about gear you know it's like

well I want to have kids in the future does that mean I can never Use gear it's like no actually did you know that you can freeze your sperm like that's an option right I wish somebody told me that so I didn't have to go through this thousands of dollars fertility product all right now yeah my fertility is great though so I'm I'm not too concerned um but yeah like like these little things I mean like I don't see like younger kids 15 18 maybe some of the 18 years old but certainly the 15 year

old Guys that are impressionable they want to do their first cycle I don't think they're listening to me because the level of Entry the barrier of sitting through a 20 minute video from is super freaking hot right so guys like you I'm very welcome of and if you can you know kind of translate the message and and just give these guys engaged because I don't think I would take advice from a 40 year old if I was 15. it just seems that the age Gap is so High like when I was 15 dude I would

listen to 18 years old and that's already old and then after that it's like no no these guys are like grannies you know yeah these guys are almost obsolete yeah and and dude when I was going to school at like 14 15 years old there were some guys that are 16 17 and they would literally grab the whole hands into the dirt uh stereo jaw jar and grab the Dianabol or the anadrill and they didn't even know what they were Taking yeah they were Beyond diable only cycles and this is you know over 20 years

ago um and these guys would be huge right puffy acne I know right but the parents would all be power lifters or bodybuilders themselves and they had no idea that their kids would be taking steroids they got out of Thailand those those thousand bought a dozen tablet bottles from uh the animal five milligram tablets and The kids would just take it you know in school and nobody would drug test them because that would look so big that everybody thought they were fat and I I really wonder what happened to all those kids that yeah I

really wonder what happened to all those um classmates that took steroids back then because they're not part of the fitness industry I I would have recognized them by now like wait a minute we grew up you know we were in Class we were at the same school I think for a lot of these guys it's just a phase social pressure you know they want to look bigger they want to impress the girls right you know they want to be like their Instagram Stars so they take some steroids and then two or three years later you're

out of that phase maybe with some health complications along the way or issues and then you're out Then they're out like a lot of guys that I used to train with are already out you know they don't even bodybuild anymore right that's that exact thing you're talking about with the younger guys listening to older guys I have that issue all the time and I try to explain that to certain people when um the main mindset I think among younger guys is if you rewind time and you remember what you were like as a kid it's

like when someone tells you no it Just makes you want to do it more like why would I listen yeah of course I was the same dude yeah yeah that's how I made all my mistakes exactly and so unless someone is and it's usually like an adult that's telling you no and it's like what do you understand about me at all you know you're like 20 30 years older than me like buzz off old man and then you you have someone just like you're saying you know like maybe you're a 15 year old some 18

year old it's Someone that you actually look up to and they're like Hey listen man like I was in that position or like I know a lot about this and I don't think that's a good idea or if you do want to do that here's something that you could do to not totally screw yourself they're a lot more receptive to that they're a lot more willing to open up and be like okay well so I can't do a ridiculous amount of rad 140 at age 15 maybe if I'm using enclomaphene and a little older then

It's like less bad like they start to find at least at minimum a middle ground because if you can't get them to fully say no and stop you can try to help them out somewhere in that space Maybe set them up with a PCT protocol if they don't want to go that route right yeah at least at least you're doing something for harm reduction because most most people will do it anyway right they will do it anyway I see this in my comment section I get the DMs you know You give them advice yeah especially

the young kids when they do reach out and and then you know three months later they contacted me with the blood work and they're [ __ ] and they can't they can't afford a consultation yeah um because I'm way too expensive for these young guides um but yeah I see it happen all the time you know what what really troubles me are these height protocols I know Leo Used to talk about that but I'm real I'm really against it um because you don't know the ramifications long term encrusting your estrogen while you're undergoing puberty I

think it's a horrible idea you know so I I get these questions quite frequently uh like Steve what do you think about uh Arimidex or in clomorphine and and so I can grow longer I'm on limited time because my growth plates are going to close these Kids are like 13 years old dude yeah 14 years old and I'm like yeah I said listen I can't help you because your parents will kill me yeah they're lovely so my ass if I if I do help you so this is very worrying nowadays with with you know the

information that's on YouTube and it's for everybody right right these high protocols that they're I think they're even more problematic than uh you know than than steroid protocols because from The steric protocols you recover but if you crush your estrogen for a certain amount of months or even years while you're undergoing you know pure adult development exactly yeah I mean the cardiovascular system takes such a beating and nowadays the cardiovascular system you should treat like it's a pair of testicles even more I mean with this with this day and age you'll just die you know

I mean I see it happen all the time you know people with Cardiovascular complications and and they just die because of the you know the pandemic and stuff yep so do you get a lot of these kids as well your direct messages it's it's one of the most concerning things because it's it's one thing exactly like you're saying with steroids where you know the HPT will recover and obviously if you're younger there's a lot of issues with that anyway you're still in your developmental years your body is so sensitive to something Like that but with

the hype growth protocols how important estrogen is to especially your brain and your heart and your entire body during the foundational developmental years of your life you know why would you really want to be depriving yourself of that and there there is this idea that I talk about where it's important that if you are going to pursue something you understand the risks and you accept them I think honestly the the risks are of Such great magnitude that people are you know mistaking a few trees for the forest they're not seeing how big of an issue

it could actually be and they're just saying well that's okay am I going to grow three inches or like oh yeah I'm fine with that like will I be six foot and another thing that I've noticed is I have a funny story about the whole hype thing is when I was in Middle School a girl rejected me because I was too short and so I had this like whole [ __ ] did she you should send her your Tick Tock subscribers yeah just look at what you're missing out on you know right look at all

these affiliate discounts uh commissions that I'm getting so it was in my head like all of high school I'm like wait like am I actually a short guy like is this gonna affect me and I was I was so in my head about it and then I graduate high school and I'm like it doesn't actually matter that much but You know when you're 13 you're 14 like any little things about it exactly it kills you yeah like like I'm I'm five nine right so that's average height but in in Holland everybody's like six one six

four so I felt like a short kid and I I didn't realize that I was tall until I came to Thailand and I literally Tower over everybody but this was 15 years ago um but down to middle class as you know better financial status so all the kids That are growing up nowadays they're all a foot taller than their parents because they have better food like all the parents I just had a horrible food quality that it keeps them short and you'll see that now like in in Asia like I'm now on average height here

as well but for a lot of guys that are that are feeling short you know when you're a teenager and younger it really matters right this High thing because you think that all The women are only going to go after tall guys and all these um masculinity YouTube channels they're all about talking about six foot you know and thick beards they're all the same they're carbon copies of each other these these masculinity channels I think it's despicable um because you know you can determine success in masculinity in a multitude of different factors especially on how

many People's lives you can change positively you know yeah I think a lot of guys that fall for this masculinity stuff are kids without fathers because they don't have a strong Father Figure in their life but if you do have a strong Father Figure look at these masculinity channels and say you need to be six foot you need to make a million and you need to drive a sports car and you need to have this and all these assets that don't really matter in the Long run um right they don't did they don't really know

how to compare that to their own dad because he either wasn't around or or you know he was just just not present in the education process and it's right I think that's also a lot where the young guys go wrong because they look for guys like me or you there's a little bit of a replacement Father Figure when it comes To the knowledge and then you tell them no and that hurts yeah yep there's like no you can't do this you can't do the cycle you can't do an iron overhauling cycle because you won't live

and then you're literally replace the debt that would also say no and they get pissed you know and they do it anyway it's it's it's very difficult to kind of you know get through to these kids even though you know you're smart enough to say the no To the d-ball and testosterone only cycle right yeah so right I do think there's outliers out there but I think you know you need to have it internally like wait a minute let me you know take a step back is this a situation and then see what I can

do right that's exactly what you're talking about with the you know the father situation is no one looks at their dad and if no one says oh describe your dad and you say oh he sticks foot that's not really a marker Of his character like how good of a dad he was right so I I think when you when you take a step back and you look at the situation on the whole you know the height or the beard or whatever the the factors are that's not really how you're remembered it's more how you carried

yourself and what impacts you had on on the world and like what you contributed especially to the people around you but also to your kids life and so that's where even as an influencer if you look At yourself like that where it's like okay I'm this metaphorical father to a lot of viewers you know what do I provide them with you know how do I treat them with care and if they are coming to me with a really bad idea how do I let them down easy in my live streams when people come to me

and a common question with young kids is like hey where do I buy testosterone you know where do I get the good stuff so my immediate my immediate metaphor is Always I imagine that I'm a dad and my 12 year old son comes to me and asks if he can drive the Ferrari my answer is no there's no way you were driving the Ferrari but if he's older and knows how to drive and is educated and has already you know maybe driven something less uh less special than that then yeah maybe I'd say and didn't

break it and didn't break it yeah and so because if you imagine at the opposite way around if I say no you Can't drive the Ferrari they sneak into the garage they grab the keys anyway they go take it for a drive what do you think is going to happen they're gonna flip the fry and blow themselves up right it's always how it's gonna go no so you know the funny thing is like even most of the guys if you let them down easily I think they understand a little bit uh better yeah but still

I wonder what happens to the guys that do Do it and then uh don't contact me with all the side effects or probably go to somebody else of course but I do see it quite a bit still you know and that is a little bit disappointing as an educator because you do realize that you can't reach everybody and make have them make the correct decisions but I think there's also something to say for kind of you know trial by combat or self-experimentation and just getting your hands dirty and then figuring out a Higher truth on

your own body and making some mistakes along the way because from my experience after 25 years in a sport the best way for bodybuilders and fitness people to learn is just to make the mistake yeah just to make a mistake I should have never done I should have listened to you know Tanner or Steve or or Paul or whoever else I should have just listened but then at least the respect is there like wait a minute these guys Were right I shouldn't have done that of course hopefully you know they don't get horrible side effects

in the meantime that they uh you know they really get an adverse reaction to the point they have to exit the fitness space because that happens also quite a bit um you know sometimes you meet these people like two years later and they completely give up it's a shame to see yeah it's really sad how uh how common Is sarmios with the kids nowadays it's less than before are these kids still using a ton of songs it's actually been pretty interesting I think uh it's it's definitely a popular option because a lot of people see

it as like a stepping stone to steroids um in some ways maybe in some ways not really but uh it's also been popular for guys to start using uh non-like things that don't have any effects on their hpta so mk677 in reasonable doses so That they're not suppressing their testosterone for those those prolactin feedback loops I think exactly yeah yeah and so um other things like L-Carnitine I've been a big proponent of where you get the practice of intramuscular injection and then you start to know you know do I want to inject myself for probably

the rest of my life like maybe maybe not depends on how bad it is right yeah exactly and the horrible thing about the injectable carnitine is that It burns like a [ __ ] so a lot of guys they'll probably have like is this going to be every time I inject but in reality if you inject Pharmaceuticals like pharmaceutical steroids the pulse injection pains maybe the first five injections in that in that site and then it goes away right everybody gets used to it you know unless you start digging into the underground labs but with

Pharmaceuticals it's but dude I've been injecting carnitine for almost two years Now and it still Burns yeah it sucks at least you know you can use that as a bit of a barrier for entry then it's like okay if this Burns and then you finally make the switch you're like oh like I've kind of earned it right it's uh yeah right that's true yeah that's true you went through hell already yeah and then uh I I've seen also you know in Coloma fiend only uh use use for that you know any kind of oral thing

That they can get their hands on and try that and uh nasal spray applications for peptides has also become more popular yeah okay good good good so what what is like uh the the the lowest entry cycle you can design for a guy that's like 18 years old right you have to do 18 because any younger and we'd both get sued um so depending on the states where you find yourself in or the country that you fight yourself in 18 is okay right um so What would be like a low entry first cycle for an

18 year old that is not to invasive right and we're talking uh AAS we're not we're not doing like half anything anything anything doesn't matter they're making it easy for these guys right give it away so the the first thing I say is that everyone's body is different so understand that first I'm not going to tell you to a prescriptive dose that is Just right for you you know you might have to pick something and then make a little adjustment right depending on what's right for you um having some things on hand to control estrogen

would be a very wise idea please don't be that guy that's scrambling to Source Arimidex because you know your nipples are blown out and whatever horrible things are going on right um the dosing that I'm most favorable Towards is a milligram per kilogram approach it's just because I really like Broderick as a person he's a funny guy he has some questionable opinions on other things that's fair but um I uh I do like his approach there so it would be like probably somewhere around the three milligrams per kilogram for a for any man like as

a weekly dose and depending on how high that is you know if you're on the overweight side then you might need to bridge up to that Dose you don't want to have any crazy hormone fluctuations is your first going into anything and as that cycle progresses you know week four things start to peak week eight you start to start like seeing the benefits make sure that you're getting blood work about like halfway through the cycle I think I would I would agree with and just Monitor and see you know how do you feel on it

right maybe you're that kind of person that you really like the Propionate ester of testosterone you might need to make a switch there I know blue Taylor that bodybuilder he really likes Pro but then and Anthony he feels horrible on for whatever reason right and I know you've talked about how uh like certain carrier oils and other things of the sort can definitely affect how a person feels just by using this so although you might have a bad first experience maybe it's not actually the testosterone but maybe it's the quality Of your testosterone maybe you

want exactly right start investigating a Pharma grade Source something like that so um you know that's how I would approach it and honestly but the most important thing is to be kind to yourself throughout the process because I think in my field especially I mostly deal with the mental side of people going into a cycle expecting something insane something crazy right you know my arms Are going to blow up and put two inches on them my shoulders gonna be bowling balls make it easy you are going to grow a little faster but you know it's

not going to be like absolute night and day difference unless you do have the genetic support there's absolutely people who who grow like that so I tell guys to just honestly be be nice to themselves as they go into that process is it do you really see that a lot where kids are so hard on themselves they kind Of self-sabotage throughout the cycle or even before that because you know I mean at the bodybuilding you're always self-scrutinizing you know this needs to be bigger that need to be bigger but how is it like with the

younger guys because I can't remember being very insecure when I was younger but maybe that's also because it's such a long time ago in a different day and age where we didn't get exposed to social media and everybody was tried yeah you know I Think that's one of the biggest contributing factors the the main result of it is that I see people try to lean into the gear as a um like I'm not getting results fast enough I that means I need more and so you know they might be halfway into their cycle and they

double their doses or they add a large dose of something else they they basically just make their cycle way more aggressive because They're not seeing the results that in their head they expected from it they might see you know some influencer of theirs say oh here's my first cycle like I'm documenting everything for you guys when in reality they were on cycle anyway and they're now doing a like third or fourth or fifth cycle right right right so it's really really really distorts their perception on things and so the sabotage they might do is just

like look into bigger doses or look for That next big thing that's going to make them explode like oh I need growth hormone or oh I need incorrelex right it's always that like neck until eventually you realize you just don't have the genetics for it man I don't know what to tell you or or the money I mean it's it's not cheap to run a cycle correctly you know with the blood work and the ancillaries and all the micromanagement that you need to do man I feel bad for all these young dudes Nowadays because they

have a lot tougher than I did yeah I didn't have access to the information so it was hard to piece it together and I didn't have the social pressure because jewelry nobody was in shape around me I was the only one going to the gym maybe besides a couple guys that were on steroids already so there's maybe five five kids in the old school that were going to gym and everybody else would do soccer or some other team sport And then you go to the gym and everybody's also on steroids and they're like you know

what earn it shut the [ __ ] up little boy you gotta do yeah that's what they said you got to deadlift five plates first and squat four plates and binge three plates first you know I never got to those three plates on the bench but I did do my my five play deadlifts and four played squads you know two reps doesn't count Um but yeah you had to earn it you know back then but now it's all online and nobody has to earn it anymore and I think it's really messing with the mental state

of some of these guys you know I mean I see it in my inbox as well and uh what I'm sure in your inbox it's a little bit more pronounced because you're closer to these younger dudes yeah and yeah we should I kind of do like some sort of therapy class therapy channel for these guys start to deal With self-esteem right yeah so so when it comes to these young guys I mean you know they have so much Social pressure I had to have access to all the information but they're also very likely to jump

the gun based on the information that they think they know do you think they're financially secure enough to afford everything that's required because I remember when I was like 15 16 17 18 and and even though I went to the gym I thought about taking Steroids obviously but I didn't feel ready but the main drawback for me was just I didn't have [ __ ] money yeah I didn't have any money at that time you know and you live with your parents you do a part-time job you make like a little bit over minimum wage

and and and then of course the partying and the drinking and you know from Holland to a wheat smoking recreational drugs all that nonsense said that that's all a phase that you have to go through in Your life but besides that I didn't I didn't have any money for steroids so maybe it's because the only guys that would sell steroids all were in that part of that underground uh scene of pharmaceuticals so an ampule of tests was like eight euros and you're like hey Euros I can buy three bears for that yeah what the hell

yeah like what is it like nowadays because I I can't imagine you know how much money the the kids have available For this kind of stuff so it definitely varies you'll you'll meet some people who are so committed and so dedicated you know they eat sleep live and breathe bodybuilding and for them they're going to find some way to make it work and they they know that blood work is important and they're going to do everything they can working overtime you know skipping the parties skipping the you know the drinking and whatever to just to

go out and to get their bloods Done so there are people who make it happen absolutely but then there are people who they look at their budget and they say well I can't really get a full panel like what if I just get the non-sensitive testosterone like what if I just you know skimp on this skimp on that and eventually before you know it you know you're working with the skeleton of what you actually should be looking at right right and the the gears another thing where to get quality Sourcing stuff there's a little bit

of a price involved but then there's also like oh I could get like from a bulk Source from underground it's like pennies per vial okay now it's you know is your body gonna handle that properly like what's the quality of that like there's a lot of questions that are floating around so you could definitely do a budget cycle but you are exposing yourself to more risk kind of as a result of that and so maybe it might be Better if you just wait get a little more financially stable and then you can fully get into

this hobby from a better from a better point I can get behind that yeah I mean that's one of the reasons why I waited that long because I never felt financially secure enough to deal with all the you know the the expenses that came along with it because I I did blood work every year um when I was still drug free I could Just get it on as part of my insurance right we have insurance in Holland and the rest of Europe so you can go in for blood work once per year now this blood

work didn't include any of the numbers or concentration so you just said numbers on paper but no real reference ranges so you're like 25. what yeah wow that's really weird and they would and I would barely print it out they would just tell you your blood work look good so I would always have to Go in with an excuse a doctor or or a Primary Healthcare physician not a doctor at a guy just knows a little bit about a lot of different subjects um you know the house doctor right yeah I would just say that

my libido's low I feel depressed I don't feel good blah blah blah just really played a victim for him to do as many tests as I I could squeeze within that um you know insurance that I had but testing testosterone or estradiol or Maybe you got total estrogen if you're lucky so you get the esterone estradiol in estereo and it was such a headache and I can imagine for kids you know just not having the confidence to do what work because it's it's difficult to navigate these doctors that are just reactive and not preventable right

yeah what we need to do is prevent it if we want to check the what work parameters before we get our hands dirt and then during and after I had to see if we Recovered from the pulse psychotherapy but I think when you're younger it's such a roadblock to deal with a an old doctor and old I'm saying over 30. yeah that's old for these guys that are in their early 20s yeah and and they might have been bodybuilding since they were 15 years old just like I do they've put in six solid work years

right maybe they're ready financially and mentally and then you know it got educated but then the blood work is a huge issue and I think that's really a shame because you know in America it might be easier through Merrick health or some of the other uh clinics right do basic plot work but did you go somewhere else like in Holland almost impossible dude I had to play like clinically depressed to get my blood work done every time and I'm sure yeah I'm sure in other countries it's even worse like if I look at my old

blood work from Holland it doesn't make any sense because you don't even know What the reference ranges are yeah they try to keep you dumb dude they try to keep you dumb it's it's it's despicable it's been nice there are private you know uh private blood work firms out in the US so that people can just pay out of pocket show up somewhere get their bloods drawn and then there's there's no hassle so it's a lot more accessible for younger guys you don't have to deal with convincing your doctor to try and get This test

or it's like well I don't know if we should be doing that test you're like please you know I feel horrible give me this give me that and then eventually you you can milk it out of them just like you're saying all right that's tough I mean especially if you imagine being like an 18 year old kid or God forbid there's even younger kids who get on cycle trying to imagine them you know fighting with their doctor for a certain blood marker I can even picture it in front of me like it's like some 16

year old kid wanted to do an oral only cycle but at least smart enough to do some baseline blood work yeah and he goes into the doctor barely any hair on his chest you know her face for that matter and then arguing for the doctor I mean I was the same but I didn't want to do a cycle I just wanted to see if I was healthy or not yeah uh but just arguing to get that sensitive testosterone test and the Sensitive that's done just to make sure that they're in the green oh man man

these kids are tough nowadays man they should be they should be happy with guys like you just trying to educate them and making it a little bit more digestible because I mean watching me have probably just too cumbersome already you know I don't know I mean blessing in a curse having all that information I know uh because we were talking about the the first podcast I Was on with uh Justin Harris he talked about how he didn't even know steroids was a thing and so I think there's some like unbelievable video him squatting like five

plates for 20 reps or something and he wasn't even on gear at the time because he didn't know what it was and so if you imagine a landscape where you see these really jacked guys the only way to get there you think is just to train harder and find a better diet that's quite a healthy approach for The first couple years and then you realize down the line oh there is an enhancement that I can take well now you're in a really great position where you've already built that Baseline and then you go from there

but nowadays it's like you know within the first couple months of lifting you've got videos suggested on your on your for you page on Tick Tock like oh you know she broke up with me it's time to do Trend and you're like let's try it I don't know You're like 17 years old and you're like what is this trendy you go to Google oh this sounds exciting yeah you go to Reddit read all the the the the steroid reports and then you have the trend twins to kind of guide you along the way it's like

a recipe for disaster now yeah and and so it's just so easily accessible which is a good thing but also a bad thing in that sense where it's like the second the human brain knows that there's a shortcut I think it Kind of forgets the hard work on the other end of things because always in the back of your mind you're like well I could just make this easier like what am I what am I doing working my ass off for for minimal results why am I not enhanced you know why don't I just get

on already right so that haunts guys really no I know and and the funny thing is about Trenbolone which is of course glorified everywhere nowadays is that trimbledon you can do everything wrong Nutrition wise training wise cardio-wise supplementation wise and you'll still get [ __ ] results it's unbelievable you know I mean there's there's the reports out there of guys on Reddit that they train and don't even trade and they get leaner and more muscular I mean that's the same what happens to cattle right that's why children was prescribed in uh in livestock just decrease

feed efficiency so to eat You know the the livestock food grass hay whatever and it's antibiotics obviously or a lot of corn right that's the the Western Livestock diet and they get this phenoplex injected with a little bit of estrogen at least a competency at least the guys for livestock realize that estrogen is important for growth right we're done yeah we don't no no we take all the estrogen out and then just take the terminal and acetate and then You see these these this candle this grow and grow and grow and the comparison between livestock

that's not John trimbledon or fenoplex and livestock on Trenbolone it's night and day it's night and day and all they do is walk around the field just eating or worse just you know somewhere where they're all caged up and it's still good Jack so that's why it's so popular because you can do everything wrong you don't Need the foundation you don't need knowledge all you have to do is inject and deal with the side effects and then of course you know some people run up to 700 milligrams or a thousand milligrams you know I don't

worry I've been there I've been at a thousand milligrams per week for four weeks and I almost died not literally but just I was walking side effects um but yeah I mean the results that you get you know and luckily I already had You know Foundation of 11 years drug free yeah and I can't imagine what it's like just to hop on the train I mean Derek has made many videos about all these young kids just going on cycle and they're forced to get super low and you know they're they can acne and gyno and

cystic acne to the point all skin explodes it's yeah it's crazy to see I don't think it will ever go away do you think there will be a point in time where everybody starts to wisen up And then suddenly all the teenage uh Depot gangsters are gone I think that compounds definitely flux up and down in terms of popularity it's almost like a like fashion styles where certain drugs are popular for a certain amount of time and then they kind of Fade Out of popularity and then they come back into popularity you know primable and

for example is definitely on the popular side right now oh yeah yeah well you love it so much I Mean you're not gonna lie to people about it so no I love Primo exactly and so there's that there's also been that that period of time and on the forums people are like oh prima bones weak like what are you doing mess around with that stuff for and then it comes it comes back and people start realizing oh I don't know it actually does have some applications and I think that was kind of just the Growing

Pains of the enhancement world where people think This is really good and then this is really good but I imagine there's going to be a point at which it normalizes and everyone realizes hey like this is good for certain things obviously genetics dependent and then you start kind of stratifying every compound like that and then picking and choosing from your little toolbox depending on what your goals are Trend alone as much as it's going to be notorious because of the side effects And what it does to people mentally you know you've seen all of Derek's

Horror Story Reddit post videos there I've been there I've been there I was my wife gave me an ultimatum she's like it's you or it's a trend or uh the marriage now you can choose right not to that extent but just like you know I came off Trend I think that the life cycle was like 350 or 225 milligrams per week which is you know modest yeah and and she's like you know do you like yourself better off the Trend like where are we going with this she's like I like you better off the chin

you're like a much better person much Kinder much more patience you know the night sweat she could deal with and that kind of [ __ ] you know it's just on my side of the bed but she I I realized like on Trend you don't even know how much of a [ __ ] you are and then you get off of it and if you have your significant other who can monitor you throughout the entire Trend cycle and Then they'll let you know it's like hey you're a much better person on it she has that

Thai tactfulness you know where they kind of manipulate you with sweet words and you just let it happen not the Western girls the Western girls are so direct like [ __ ] you you're gonna train them out of here yeah Thai girls they're a little bit more tacular the Thai girls are a little bit more technical so she was very very kind in how she approached it and then it made Me you know she she formulated in a way to make me think it was my own idea so I stopped training and honestly my life

has been 10 times better and all the gains I made so many more gains after that I mean I think the heaviest I got to was like 105 108 kilos it's 220 230 235 and then after 10 years later with insulin and growth and igf-1 and all that stuff and I test I think I came up to like 255 260. much healthier much Better blood work right but it's also more cumbersome because you know if you run a boatload of chain again you know if you make a mistake you miss a meal or you double

a meal it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter you'll still Jack the relationships and gear is something that I I found that no one really tells you about until you end up on it and it's of course yeah exactly and so you'll see these little stories and you're like no like That's not really going to be me right and then even me man like I do my first cycle and I jump I jump straight to 300 milligrams of testosterone and for reference my natural testosterone was 301 nanograms per deciliter total test oh wow 10x yeah

pretty much and so I it uh the spike I wasn't expecting I didn't even I was like yeah 300 is pretty low I probably don't need the bridge to that I guess I probably did because the Estrogen fluctuation like there's one there's like a day where i'm like on the corner of the road like crying and then I'm yelling at my roommates and then I'm like thinking that I don't really like my girlfriend at the time and I'm like we can't do this anymore and breaking up with you like just so all over the place

did not expect like mood swings like that but I think people focus a ton on the physical side effects the mental ones are a lot harder to quantify but This this stuff can like really reorient your life if you're not bracing yourself for it it's it's very true like and especially when you start at 300 300 nanograms per disorder and then you go to 3000 which is give or take where most people end up on 300 milligrams uh you know steroids per week it's a 10x so it heightens your emotions 10x and it's the same

with alcohol people think that they're just normal on alcohol right no same [ __ ] all your emotions get Heightened you drink alcohol when you're sad and you're going to be sadder and you drink alcohol when you're celebrating and you're celebrating art right party hard it's it's and it's the same with steroids but the difference is an alcohol you just have one day a steroid you have 12 weeks 16 weeks you know blasting and cruising for 10 years like I did you know you don't even come off so you're always in this heightened State and

the dude coming off Of that and then you realize is my emotions blunted am I like apathic and adult edonia that kind of stuff because you've been at this heightened state for such a long time then you come down and it's a big difference you know I mean coming off of the last cycle which was about a gram of steroids and combined and then coming down to HCG and FSH for fertility purposes I mean it's a huge difference you know I mean the the the drive isn't there and the libido isn't There and the motivation

isn't there and you know just the decision-making process like a finated decision-making process that you have on trt or more isn't there so you can go in circles like should I do this should I do that it's it's very confusing even when you're 40 years old man it will it will still be the same so I can't imagine what it's like when you're younger because I mean I did have that I think when I was 26 when I went On cycle but my life kind of changed because the the business consultancy field was going bankrupt

it was in an economic crisis just like it is an economic crisis now um I decided to stop that being employed and then doing my own thing so my cycle I was literally full-time bodybuilding for the first time in my life because I didn't have any other obligations so I could kind of deal with it because there was no roller coaster and I had enough Money in the bank but I I think when you start like that young and then you're still going to school and and trying to impress girls and the girl tells you

that you're short even though you're [ __ ] wet yeah sure I mean it's probably hard to deal with you know so did you make up with your girlfriend after going through that roller coaster on your first cycle uh there's been some roller coasters since then so uh not not really but you know It's things come and go anyway and that's another temptation is to always blame the gear for things where it's like you know do I actually have feelings for her or is it because I'm on cycle or you know I oh I have

some friends who they they tell me about their NPP experience and I don't know the meaning of this but they seem to be very attracted to the higher body fat percentage women yeah it goes down I don't know if there's all This progesterone makes you just want to spread the love and the semen around but if I see the dude here in Thailand it's even worse because you have all these guys on trimbledon right they're trying to recomp they go to Stair to Thailand for their steroid holiday and they bang [ __ ] yeah and

there's a guy I can't help myself on this trend I I just want to [ __ ] the lady boss What are you doing it's a it's a common joke you know you take them out to the entertainment area and say what about this bar cockatoo say what do you think that bar is about you know the Banana Bar what do you think of this bar is about I said I want to have a look and then that you can't drag him out of it and then you know six weeks later they're off the train

and they're they feel embarrassed exactly they think back on Everything they've done and they're like oh no oh yeah like all of it comes back to you you're like I guess I did do that whoops yeah that's a for all those sophomore girls that are a little bit chunky they love the guys on trading the problem well because they're finally get a little bit of action piece of the pie as well they're buying all the short dudes of tread everyone gets the love it all balances out right it's great Same as well when I was

younger would just go to these Raves and then you have MDMA right there's recreational drugs and it's the same I didn't get all lovey and feely and you know a six looks like an eight and a four looks like a seven and it's like Ah that's good enough and it's dark right you don't see anything oh man yeah yeah and then you have to deliver that for the rest of your life yeah the Rave culture has been very popular overlapped With bodybuilding I imagine there was a lot of overlap back in the day you know

people want to look good for the Raves and so they get into it there but it's definitely been alive and well even into the Modern Age and it's really delicate to deal with because you have these guys that are basically peaking for a rave like it's a show you know why you're banging all these orals in your body and you're really like redlining yourself and you're gonna Go dance in a hot crowd for like eight hours straight into the dma and all the Retros you know yeah which again I'm not against because I can't preach

because I used to take rig drugs when I was younger but I stopped before by the time I you know went the bodybuilding route so I did all my partying and and all these Raves I mean Holland the Raves are gigantic dude yeah 50 000 people it was unheard of Back then you know 70 000 besides the love parade which was in Germany that's a million people a million people following these these buses around yeah yeah it's um it's crazy crazy part and drugs would have been handed out readily because Holland produces that so you

can get ecstasy tablets for Europe or for a Gilder you know that's the the previous currency it's so cheap to right and then High Purity too so we're talking about 70 Milligrams not 200 milligrams like you need to take nowadays it's um yeah and you see a lot of people exactly like you said you either come from the recreational jerk phase where the entry to steroids is easier because you're used to taking drugs so you go from one drug to the next and then instead of going to all these Raves and partying and meeting people

there you go through the same thing but in the gym right going to the gym multiple times per day You're very social reactive talking with people all the time hitting up girls so that's the same as what you would do with rapes yeah and then the the drug of choice changes from recreational to performance enhancing it's right I mean this there's clear correlation it works the other way also backwards ask Dorian Yates yeah I mean he he did it the other opposite way right he went from Hardcore bodybuilding from 18 to you know early 30s

you want all these Mr Olympia's and now he's doing recreational drugs and Coke and I Ayahuasca or whatever else and now he's a full Yogi doing yoga so you go through his spaces in life but you're right I mean the threshold to do something else is so much lower I do think there's just something to say for all of it because it kind of enrich your personality as long as you don't do it too frequently because all the people that I know that Used to Raven are still going out and they did recreational drugs for

decades oh that's rough dude those guys yeah you're chasing a dying High I mean at a certain point your body's sensitivity to it is just basically shot I mean you know especially if you're gonna keep like bumping up the number of pills that you're taking every weekend you know you're just shoeing them like little gummy bears at that point and what are You really getting out of that besides damage uh not much no yeah no it's and these guys can't stop because they're sending me addicted to the whole dance culture you know yeah it's uh

I think and now now God does it really really well because he likes a rave as well and he you know he's on performance sensitive drugs but during that time he doesn't really take Rex and then he just goes out with his foot and tupperware and Protein and just dances for eight hours and and that's how he stays late get the cardio in exactly it gets a cardio in yeah it's hilarious and then on his story is just sharing what he's doing and he's not intoxicated at all right yeah usually by the time it's six

o'clock eight o'clock the jaw starts although I've definitely been going sober and I do like it quite a bit so I really like Nile being in that space and saying something positive about you can Still go out and have a really good time you know you don't need to be taking every drug Under the Sun to enjoy it and to be fully a part of that scene it's really cool exactly exactly you can be like the trip sitter you know for most guys you're driving me home and then if you do want to take something

okay that's fine we just come off everything you know I think you can only do so much damage to your body at one time so if you're completely off right or maybe Just trt and you want to do something in the comfort of your home or go to a rave that's totally fine but don't expect to look like this uh at the array for your old Jack and tanned and and super shredded and you can you know take your shirt off for all the girls or walk around shirtless and get all this attention because it

it just doesn't go well together at the same time you know I mean I knew guys that would take clinics or 120 micrograms per day All the way up to the Rave and then take MDMA I mean imagine how much heart damage you're inducing yeah you're part can explode at that point I mean yeah just been dancing for eight hours not eating of course yeah yeah it did look good though but how for how long I don't think it's sustainable at all no that's not do you get questions like this from younger people that are

in both Fields like in the fitness field in the array Field and they're trying to manage it because I rarely see it where people do both like what now is doing um but he does it smartly right I mean he's focusing on his career and he's not missing a beat on social media yeah but I would say there's there's definitely a demographic for it you know there are plenty of guys like Nile and they do have really big social media followings and so kind of within their space they're probably the ones who are Getting the

questions where it's like hey you know me and my buddies are going out I'm on cycle I'm on this I'm on that like what do you think I should do here and it would be cool if I get to a point where as I'm out more frequently and I'm I'm posting more often the kind of stuff that I like to enjoy then people could come to me for those kinds of questions and say you know hey I do like doing a little recreational this like what should I consider like should I stop my Computer all

yes but you know all of these other things that they don't take anything it's Viagra because I mean you can use Dan Bilzerian as a perfect example right he took Coke and Viagra together he had a heart attack yeah exactly so you know and that's that's not uncommon you know for guys to do that it's uh it's pretty brutal that is something that's been really popular with the younger guys lately is using pd5 Inhibitors as pre-work done so Cialis and Viagra they like to use before the gym they get really good pumps from it you

know all the Vaso dilation is awesome there's definitely a couple of things to be careful of if you're going to be using them especially if you're naturally a hypotensive person you don't want to be passing out in the gym because you took too much to dial Phil right right exactly yeah you can thank me and Skip Hill for that one yeah that was you guys yeah uh Ken skip Hill Was one of the first guys to talk about it than John Meadows I mean this is an older crowd you know John Meadows passed away unfortunately

But Ken skip is he's one of the he's the original internet coach yeah exactly right right right so yeah you used to have his website intense muscle or Dante Trudeau and many of the fitness or bodybuilders used to kind of gravitate and share information I was just always too scared to register Because these guys would be brutal uh online so I would just read read read anyway so again skip Hill kind of introduced you know the like the Cialis as a pre-workout and then I kind of rolled with it after my own experimentation over the

years and brought that to a bigger audience and now it's very very popular but yeah it of course it can cause some side effects if you're not you know don't understand sodium or blood volume or you start Combining that with something like gorilla mode Nitric or some of these other pump products you know yeah I just faint I mean how many kids are fainting on the deadlift nowadays because of this pre-workout cocktail I'm wondering right or bad form I mean you see a plethora of different issues uh that's that is where I first saw I

was uh it's Derek's video he has the little bottle of gorilla Nitric and the little pillow Cialis and his thumbnail and then he explains you Know vasodilation and nitric oxide all that good stuff so yeah but then obviously the downsides of it where you know you open your blood vessels a little too much then you're and then you're in the danger zone but it's not that bad I mean you're you're probably already hypertensive at that point yeah we train a lot harder than the naturals because you know all these steroids just make you train harder

and you can go to failure and Beyond and That's why it's so fun to train on steroids and not fun when you come off steroids yeah because you I mean your workout quality is just 10 times better I mean the last time I had a good workout was man February like within the first four weeks yeah February I had a lot a good workout uh I I stopped storage beginning on this year right for the fertility protocol and Then you have like four weeks six weeks left that these you know steroids are still active in

your system and then after that everything is kind of meh you know and this is where the addiction basically comes in because you're as soon as that starts to happen your workouts go down the recovery comes down and even though you're super meticulous with your diet in the training program and you go from a five-day bro split to a pushable legs because otherwise you Don't recover right you keep rips in reserves and then over six months you look in the mirror and you're like you can't even recognize yourself you're just fat okay what the hell

is going on it is unhappy with how you look and then you wonder like why am I even going to the gym because you're going to the gym partially um for physical appearance right and to Look healthy and fit and then it all just all falls apart even my testosterone levels right now are like 600 700 yeah nanograms per deciliter but that's from the atg but it's not enough to sustain the muscle mass and the metabolism and and all that stuff yeah yeah it's it's a it's pretty rough you know it's pretty rough do you

have guys in your inbox after her first cycle to do a PCT and then everything fell apart Uh maybe not so much like it falls apart but they're always asking you know like how much muscle do I keep on PCT you know how much muscle am I going to keep after this cycle zero and it's like you know if I'm honest with you it's not really a good answer and so going from there there are guys where once they're done with their cycle they're like immediately thinking about their next one they're asking like how long

do I Really have to wait before I get on my cycle again like you know I do like two weeks can I do like three weeks you're like what are you talking about like make sure your blood works at least good before you're gonna get back on cycle again right yeah all the metabolites are still in your system you're not even off cycle really I mean novadex and climate if you use that for PCT it's still active for 45 days after your last Administration so Even within 45 days if your testosterone levels are still high

you need to wait three months after you finish your ball Psychotherapy just to see if your motorcycle therapy was even successful yeah I've got so many videos in an ebook about Paul Psychotherapy and people still do it wrong right long story short they need to let all these drugs metabolize then you can start your PCT right the consistent or maybe you run that throughout but at least the Testicular function is sustained but you need all these metabolites to be out of your system for the negative feedback to stop and then you can stimulate the feedback

uh with these serms so in that case it works but most guys still go with this cookie cutter internet PCT testosterone anything to stop the injections you run HCG now your testosterone levels are still high by the time you start PCT these are still active in your system Actively suppressing and even though if you do a high dose of novotics and comets by the time you finish your four weeks novitex employment this testosterone and a date that you injected six weeks ago still active and the estrogen is still there it's still causing a negative feedback

yeah it's uh yeah it's quite painful and then they want to Gail back on cycle two weeks later so they basically had eight weeks between the last testosterone injection And going back on cycle nothing happens right in between besides liver stress yeah and clotting and like try and force it back up and then you're crashing it again because you're getting on cycle again you know at that point you better just be blasting cruising or just at least doing like a low-dose long term cycle right no I agree I agree so but it's of course that's

a lot of commitment and people don't want to realize this what I what I do see is a Lot of guys that they want to get their natural potential Faster by taking steroids and then maintain it yeah this is another one of those like just like a height protocol right like I I'm 18 years old I want to be as big as I can naturally and I'm going to take steroids as uh to attain it and then maintain dude it it doesn't work like that yeah it's it doesn't work like that I mean I should

post my picture online now how do I look and then people realize like wait a minute it's not sustainable at all I mean to be fair did you see those pictures when I went to Bali a couple weeks ago I don't think so okay so I was off cycle for maybe four months and I was really motivated and regimented and I still trained hard and ate right and actually got leaner in the meantime and it remains a little bit of fallen so I went from 105 kilos to 92 so I lost 13 kilos Okay 13

kilos that's 25 pounds went down after taking the stereotype but I still had decent shape all right and then after that I couldn't sustain it I increased my foot a little bit and it just everything fell apart so there is a window of time that you can sustain your shape yeah probably because you're motivated or these these metabolites are still active and you know all the metabolic processes are still activated even though the steroids are out of your System but there will come a point in time where you look like ass yeah and the people

who don't look like ass are still in something yeah exactly and that's that's just one of the biggest things is people say oh well like so-and-so came off like he still looks great did he really come off I mean I came off 100 and I looked good up until a certain point and then it Fell apart you know now I have to kind of come back again so there's no progress pictures of my Instagram for a while right I know that feeling yeah yeah that's it's horrible I mean the body is very Dynamic when you

start taking steroids you know you need to be mentally mature to kind of deal with that like for me it's no not a problem anymore I've gone through this process of getting smaller getting bigger Getting leaner getting fatter you know it's just all part of the game but I think when you do your first cycle and you get in phenomenal shape and then everything after that after getting a phenomenal shape you look worse then because now you have this extreme high right of looking crazy yeah now everything after that it's like less than right and

they you're kind of chasing that high the same as you know going to park exactly yeah it's all it's All relative and so you know it's that same feeling you're on cycle you feel amazing you feel like Superman and then you become a normal man again you're like well I know what it's like to be Superman like what am I doing just hanging around here for it it's it is nice that you know I'm blessed in my personal experience where I've never had that many issues with my self-perception or like with my own progress and

so it's really nice that I can come from that Standpoint and tell guys you know if you are going to get on cycle and you're going to blast and cruise you're going to PCT there's going to be Ebbs and flows in what your physique looks like you can't always look Peak cycle all the time without adding a lot of stress to your body and so there's that Balancing Act between you know how much are you gonna take how much are you going to balance that how are you gonna stay healthy while you're pursuing that goal

Physique and are you going to be okay with knowing that it's a snapshot in time you know you're not always going to look like the best version of yourself Dorian Yates has had to use a lot of psychedelics like just like we were talking about to basically become okay with the fact that he's not the shadow anymore you know he is he's an ordinary man in many ways yeah yeah he had to get out of reality quite a bit to kind of deal with it yeah and there's something To say for that as well you

know when the time is right I'm not against it in any way shape or form trust me yeah um but yeah I mean it does take some you know either some you know hardcore self-reflection and ego destruction uh before you come to terms with that and it's it can be very tough I mean I see it now in the older demographic like all these guys that are now turning 40 and they can't miss thing their shape and they're very insecure about it they look And all they had was bodybuilding or all they had was looking

exceptional and now they can't sustain it and they don't know what else to do right their entire existence depends on the reflection that's it's very painful to watch I mean I think foreign is coming to terms with it now but I think for many years you know after he got his kidney injuries and some of those muscle tears I mean I think it was a mental wreck and it it comes across at the podcast quite a bit Especially in the beginning now he's now he's doing better with it but yeah and then you see with

Jay Cutler for example you can't let it go either now he's doing the fit for 50 and but I think Jay Cutler is still in a good state of health or at least based on how it looks um you know so you you can sustain your health if you have like Awesome Genetics for abuse yeah because don't get me wrong those guys don't do don't do small Cycles but they can just tolerate the Drugs yeah yeah you're fine so that also helps you add it also helps yeah right for sure exactly for sure for sure

so what what you what you say to the younger audience like what are the key takeaways of just you know doing it right like besides the first cycle like what do you think is the foundation for these guys if they're like before below 25 years old what do they need to do just to Don't Mess themselves up yeah Takeaways right so one of the key things I think is to First prioritize education so you're going to start from a standpoint of with with anything really you know if before you do something you should know as

much as you can reasonably know about it even driving a car you know you're not just going to get into a car for the first time know nothing about it and just say well I'll figure it out you should definitely get to a point where you at least know what Button does what right get to the point where you're comfortable with it and then the second point I would say is risk uh acceptance where you got to look at all of the risks and ask yourself and be honest with yourself you know am I going

to be okay with maybe not having kids assuming that you know your utility isn't tackled and all that am I going to be okay with maybe losing my hair or getting uh back acne or all of these other side effects though they can be Mitigated you should be ready just in case you're not able to you know nip them in the bud before they explode out of control right and then beyond that one of the most important things that I like to tell guys is because some people will say oh like I'm thinking about doing

a cycle but I don't know I'm scared of needles or I'm scared of this or I'm scared of that the bottom line is before you get into that there should be zero doubts in your mind there shouldn't Be even a fraction of a doubt you should not have like a little bit of a well what if or what if I did this you should be going into it basically like I'm ready I know that this is the life for me I know what that life looks like all the ups and downs of it everything that's

included the financial cost because that's no joke and then you do that first pin and you're like all right I'm in it and there's obviously ways to come out of That but um it I think it differs especially with guys who in my position my natural testosterone is very low I I'm in this for life you know there's not really that big of an option for me to do in HCG monotherapy I don't know how well I would respond to that um and so I'm looking at it more of a maybe trt for life is

right for me I don't know what are your thoughts on that so so I want to see a little one Again kids nowadays you know when they're like kids I mean compared to any kids right so guys they're like you know 17 up till 25 and they're thinking about doing their first cycle they do your Baseline testosterone level and they're like 250 300 400 or 600 that's too long okay what did you try yeah to bring that up did you do a testicular ultrasound to see if you have a varicose Hill right a mild varicle

cell or a severe a varico cell or something in between right where The blood flow to the testicles is just not correct and it could be a structural issue maybe you got kicked in the nuts a couple times during you know some School uh events or or you know you just hit the genetic Lottery and you got a varicose cell since birth and that's why you didn't go to puberty correctly right those are all on the table you need to get that diagnosed before you say well this this 300 nanograms per discipline there is finite

yeah it will always stay Like this and I can't bring it up because mine were 600. all right but I lived a lifestyle 100 besides you know doing the work and stuff right but I would bring my meals I would not miss workouts and with the limited knowledge about supplements I had at the creatine and the taurine and the NSE you know the NSL system that kind of stuff the basic supplements we had back then I did it all I did it all I fully left the lifestyle As much as I could and and still

going to work I'm still doing my money making Which social media didn't exist so all you had to do was you know be employed and then work hard and and then you get a salary right that's that's the options we had back then um Good Luck being self-employed when you're like 21 25 years old without social media it's it's very hard yeah especially in the Holland with a ton of roadblocks so you know you do the part And then you realize okay 600 is quite good but then over a decade I saw it come down

you know from like 750 800 down to 600 uh ranges and then you realize okay I'm at my natural limit and I'm financially secure I've got this long until data of blood work uh I didn't do a testicular ultrasound because I didn't know about that but my discussion levels were quite okay I didn't do atg monotherapy to see if my distilled goals would respond to that Because nobody talked about it right I was one of the first even though I didn't I mean if you go to PubMed you see that you know doctors have been

doing atg monotherapy for decades and it's not something new but I think I was one of the first to talk about like if you're thinking about a first cycle why don't we see if your testicles are responsive to atg so at least we know that by the time you come off or you use HCG on cycle and that your fertility Stays sustained and that your PCT is going to be successful yeah why don't we do it just take an ultrasound to see what's going on internally made me wonder your testicles kind of messed up maybe

that's why your testosterone is so low right and then of course this is something you can still do and and you know so many people can do also but yes cool stressful recreational drugs not good for testosterone levels um you know trust me I've been there you Know the I mean nutrition which is getting worse about a year right I mean it's even scientific evidence now that nutrition and uh environmental factors are just one of the reasons why why uh testosterone levels are declining and when you start treating your body like you know what I

want to get the most out of it again takes a lot the money which most young guys don't have unless you're on social media banking which I would you know advise people to do right but You have to offer something of value like 10 right offer something of value not just butt cheeks and and silly exercises and only fans I mean yeah the potential of only fans is Limitless of course um but yeah you know getting to that financial position when you're younger and then and then taking the plunge I mean I'm not against it

if you've been bodybuilding for a couple of years and and you're in a position where you can You know learn and you know gain the knowledge to make you have a good outcome I'm not against it but I would still advise people to wait until they're like you know 25 26 years old you know it was kind of like the age when I was uh but I'm an old fart so accomplished what do I know that's you know that's that's honestly the downside of is that the the education like it's it's all out there But

then it's a matter of like is it actually accessible to the people who need it because in my experience it was you know I had known about some things but I didn't even I didn't realize something like you know Enclave could have been an option to just see if I could elevate my natural production that way or something like HCG just as a purely HTG monotherapy experiment um I I mean I did do an experiment on cycle where like I deliberately let my Nuts shrink and then I had it in HTG during the cycle and

they actually got volume again so that was pretty cool to surprise the girlfriend like look at this magic tree yeah exactly uh helps with the uh the load volume too that's always fun um yeah exactly uh yeah it's uh so what doesn't help though what what doesn't help at your age is that HCG is harder To combine than service arms that doesn't help at all yeah you know like like HCG is very difficult to Source nowadays there's only a couple sources who carry it because you know somebody in government figured that act should have been

listed as a biological so it's even more difficult to get through a trt clinic and that makes it for guys who are wisened up even harder to do it Correctly from the starts because you can buy sarms everywhere there's discount codes for that for [ __ ] sake yeah but pharmaceutical HCG of high quality good luck man I mean it's hard and you have to import it which makes you run the risk when sarms you can literally buy you know domestically and get it within the mail and no questions asked so that that you know

makes a the entry a little bit harder because if even if You want to do it correctly it might be difficult to start correctly because of the the liability and the legal issues yeah and at least you know with the sarms because they are just all generic anyway uh the there is that like the what is it generic HCG is available on a lot of the research chemical websites I know that my brand has HCG I personally found success with it but um it is always going to be safer you Know if you have that

very very high quality Source uh right yeah just that just that downside of pricing especially for guys who really are looking for like a fertility protocol the amount of HCG that you need to use is quite up there and that's not cheap it's not nice on the wall you're gonna break the bank dude trust me yeah Breaking the Bank every month and I'm lucky that I can get it for a better price than most people because I'm a celebrity now yeah Sourcing things it's fun yeah yeah I mean so that's a funny thing like people

always ask me like Steve what about the source where do I find it's a just become part of the fitness industry and these sources will find you dude yeah they'll find you yeah you know all you have to that's why I always tell people just at least get on social media if you want to be a part of the fitness industry because Instagram or Tick Tock or YouTube that's literally your resume Yeah where people can see you and and the more posts you have and the more likes and more followers and the more reputation you

have the more leverage you have to get [ __ ] done yeah not with the doctor doctor's not going to give a [ __ ] about your Tick Tock following right but at least within the rest of the industry I mean you you got uh first Detachment nutrition right and then which would yeah right and this peptide company that you're working with yeah Research m.store that reach your time what else how which other Affiliates you got so far uh so it's a research gym store and then I also I used to work with immuno Asylum

but not So Much Anymore uh and then um there's a local supplement shop that I really like so I support my local guys Ultimate Sports good so you got three sponsors and how old are you now I am 23. 23 3 sponsors I mean that's getting it done that's getting it done It's more sponsors than I had when I was 23 because there's no social media and my bag my mom was a sponsor and she would give me some uh yeah yeah it's like 10 bucks a week good luck no someone listen every sponsor obviously

makes some money right you put that together with your services and then you got a good salary so this is why I try to make all the young peoples understand that listen the the opportunities on social media are Limited and you don't need to go on a cycle right away or do anything crazy but as long as you'll monetize your uh fitness journey or whatever expertise you have to contribute then then at least you can afford the blood work right and get the Pharmaceuticals right it's just to get some disposable income even if it's only

500 bucks a month yeah you know it helps I mean 500 bucks a month for blood work every month it's a lot it's free blood work basically you Know of course I'll spend it on sarms but I did you know I I think there's a lot of opportunity more opportunity than than we had as a kid uh and younger you know that's that's why I think you know if you go that route at least document it you know if you're going to take steroids when you're that young at least document something about it right Sam

sulick and and I I don't think he's natural and I don't think he's saying that he's natural but at least he's Banking on it right at least his banking on it and so are you so right that's why I think it's good uh on the other side um you know it is it is still like for me as an older guy I'm still a little bit worried sometimes but all these kids online on steroids but I I don't think it's going to change I don't think it's going to change you know kids are always going

to do dumb things I think that's Definitely the case but exactly what you're saying with social media it's you know almost in any field it doesn't necessarily have to be bodybuilding or ped education you can leverage social media to just tell everyone about what you do is your day-to-day job you know whether you're a doctor or a lawyer or like a construction worker there is a place and an audience of people who will follow that and maybe somewhere along the line there's a supplement that makes Your life easier you get a discount code with them

you start showing that to your followers it makes their lives easier and now you have this extra stream of income that kind of came just by you documenting your day-to-day life and that's a really really powerful tool for people that they don't even realize when I was even making gear content I was natural when I was making it for a while so it's not like you really yeah that's a little bit too early buddy And it was very basic you know I'm not I'm not uh pretending like I knew anything everything I was saying was

like Hey There is this thing that says this I'm just like the the mouthpiece for saying that I'm not saying like I have experience with this and you should do this and like never I'm not I'm not gonna be saying stuff like that but you know basic level stuff like your first Cycle's not gonna make you look like Chris bomstad basically anyone can say That Natty or not right right but that's the message I want to say is like you don't have to be on gear to be successful and a lot of kids they see

that as like oh if I want to be serious about the fitness industry I should drop out of college and get on steroids and really make a life for myself I'm gonna get a discount code with this company or that company you know just focus on developing that quality content for yourself and everything else will will Kind of come and come towards you really yeah and there's a lot of YouTube channels which are actually jerkfruit and and they got millions of followers you know but they're just entertaining and they got good content and they really

put in the work you know and and you know I don't think gear is required of course helps I mean it helps a lot let's be honest yeah especially yeah and it helps even more if you lie about it uh unfortunately yeah it's ridiculous Yeah and it's uh people I mean there's so many people willing to believe it that it's attainable natural but that's like the lowest hanging fruit you know that's what a lot of these guys I mean aim for they they aim for the lowest hanging fruit people who are completely lost and then

they have these very false expectations and and supplements to Market towards that which are just proprietary Blends you can't even Research it but this this lowest thing in fruit that will never research all right and that that's the majority of the people out there if I take this supplement that this guy that looks absolutely jacked uh talks about then I'll look like him but in reality is on about a lot of GH and tests and whatever else yeah it's that's an epidemic will also never go away yeah um yeah but I mean what can you

do you know I mean I think everybody has to Learn the hard way in that sense you know to kind of get through that and then they get to a position like like they get educated by you or by me or some of the other Educators and they realize oh you know what there is more to this stuff [Laughter] I talk with um a lot of my other influencer buddies like the guys that I'm on the team with that research them um we we really noticed it's super Unfortunate that some of the most popular people

in the industry are in some way or another based on lies you know whether they're lying about their physique through Photoshop or lying about it through enhancements that they're not being open about or even they say that they are on enhancements but the doses they're fibbing and saying are disproportionately lower than they might actually be and I think it's that it's that gap Between like what they say they're doing and how they actually look that everyone gravitates to it's like wow like it's incredible their genetics are insane or like they're a Phenom and it puts

you in this Mythic mythological spot when in reality it's you know it's based on lies and so it's it's especially from the mental perspective I'm talking about earlier it's so damaging to young guys who think I want to look like that but you know taking so and so supplement is Not going to make you look that way completely no isn't it and then even when it takes cycle so and so they're not going to look that way and so they double it and triple it exactly exactly and they're still not going to look like that

because they don't have the you know the work ethic or the financial backing that all of these guys do I mean I mean the financial backing that guys like I have or other bigger channels have I mean we can literally afford Everything we want and most of it is free because we get it either to our sponsor or we make show with you at our discount code that we I mean the last time I had I haven't paid for supplements in over three years exactly all right I mean like people use my I herb discount

codes just over-the-counter supplements with bigquino and endocysteine that kind of stuff people use my discount code salt mines that I just Um laundry and we call it laundry uh laundry whatever Revenue I make from the discount code through supplements so I get them on a discount through my own uh you know supplement line and then I just use some of my affiliate commissions to pay for the supplements and send it here so I literally haven't paid for you know Health supplements for two or three years or because people use my codes right I'm in a

very comfortable position because I provide information and people Want to use my discount codes as a thank you basically like Steve I like what you're doing same as your case I like what you're doing exactly good stuff right you educate me you help me and and I'm Gonna Save Me Myself money and you're getting a kickback because everybody get gets a kickback when the discount codes are used I mean that's no secret um so I'm in a position where I can literally afford everything that I need To but yeah when I when I was just

getting started um with bodybuilding or with performance advancing drugs that certainly wasn't the case and then you really have to make a decision on what you spent money on and that that sometimes is very very hard like we alluded to earlier I mean it's you know you can do a basic cycle basic blood work but it might be better just to wait you know It's financially secure because if you're pinching pennies just to like barely get through your cycle what goes wrong or like you immediately need this or immediately need that or like some sort

of Imaging or screening man you're screwed there's not really anything you can do there you want to have that back pocket of savings to make sure you get through your cycling life safely no and it doesn't help that some of the ifb pros promote exactly this they said I did my first cycle on one ampoule of Primo or one ample test and I because I couldn't afford it anymore and I worked four jobs and it sounds like a success story right I just got to turn pro anyway but for every guy that did turn pro

and turned it into a success story you know thousands will fail yeah so if you if you go that route you better will make sure that you end up in a successful position like me or Tanner otherwise yeah how do I say just a Failure right so better work for it so maybe if you if you throw yourself in a deep end like that you better work for it and get yourself out of it because I I there's so many failure stories that come for every success story yeah it's uh yeah it's more than people

realize they don't get anything no no you don't hear about them you know yeah or you see them in the comment section complaining but then there's no face attached to it you know that's very unfortunate hey Let's leave it there it's been almost two hours dude it was great man thanks thanks for coming on yeah any uh any final words for for the young kids in the old farts like me well first of all I got to tell you like you've been so welcoming it's honestly insane I mean imagine the people watching if they were

in a position where it's like I get to be on a podcast with Vigor Steve that's basically the place that I'm coming from so it's really cool to talk to you man Um you ever heard a data you've heard it I mean I see you're you're concerned distant with the knowledge your knowledge is good you give credit where it's due because I see my own thumbnails in your videos I'm like where's I was pissed and then I was like oh wait a minute you're actually doing a good job because I started with an audio I

didn't see my face come by like what the hell's going on I didn't expect that who's this kid what the [ __ ] is this yeah but then I listen to your content and I followed you for a while and then I you know Justin Harris got you on his podcast and then you know I saw you last weekend on Paul so you're now your voucher for dude good job yeah good job three sponsors and vouch for 23. double thumbs up double thumbs up nice to work yeah front door welcome to the fitness industry buddy

now all you need to do is keep going the younger guys I mean honestly if you Do have dreams like this and whether that's like within Fitness or anything else leverage social media that's that's one of been one of the craziest most life-changing things I've ever done it doesn't matter what your day-to-day life is you can find a slot for that you can find that Niche and actually double down on it and it's just like this instead you know be kind to yourself throughout the entire practice because other people are not going to be kind

to you Tell me about it hey did you quit your day job already you're not full-time social media uh I'm still in school so I gotta graduate first you're still in school yeah oh no yeah oh no all the kids are going to come to you that watch this podcast next week I'll be a little celebrity on campus that's fun yeah why when are you gonna graduate uh just this winter yeah so I took a gap year and I'm out after that yeah okay good good good and then you'll Never have to work for an

employer ever yeah that's what's a freeing thing like now that I work for myself I don't know if I would ever be able to do a nine-to-five kind of thing it's really no you won't yeah I'm not able to go back I made that decision over a decade ago and I'm so happy that I went self-employed and thank God for social media to make it happen man all you have to do is provide value and as long as people love you and you give them what They want then then there's a job for you yeah

I'm looking forward to the next five to ten years of you on social media I'm sure we'll do more collaborations as time goes that'll be a blast man always good talking to you man for sure buddy have a good day and uh where can people find you yeah so my Instagram is tanner.tattered that is my first name dot last name and on Tick Tock that is dot tattered dot TT you can find all of the links to my Socials and whatnot in the FAQ I'm sure uh don't give that in the dude cool right where's

your YouTube you have YouTube yet not yet but that is in the words exactly yeah yeah you should you should hey thanks for having uh thanks for coming on and I'll talk to you soon yeah have a good day sounds good take care everybody