[Music] our top story tonight is a developing Global Scandal that may have been triggered by an interview we had with a Brazilian Congressman on this very program he also happens to be the son of the former and possibly future president of that country Brazil is a massive economy in our near abroad and we've watched closely as Brazil's Free Speech Dynamic has been repeatedly attacked it seems a rogue Judiciary is not an exclusively uniquely American Experience One judge in Brazil is now petitioning the Attorney General to revoke the passport of Brazilian Congressman Eduardo bolsonaro Eduardo is
the son of Jer bolsonaro the former president who's currently leading in the polls to retake power if he's even allowed to run under the crazy system they have down there where they charge their political enemies with crimes where have we heard that before Eduardo bolaro joined me exclusively to detail the eroding Democratic conditions in Brazil the laer that we're facing down there in Brazil is the simware that Trump faced here I usually say it's the same virus the difference is that that we has less antibodies in Brazil which make things harder in Brazil you have
the superior electoral court and they decide who can run who cannot run so my father right after uh uh he step out from the presidency this court said that he cannot run because two things because he met 40 ambassadors and did a live stream it it was actually a press conference to and he was criticizing the electoral process in Brazil something that he was doing for the last I don't know 15 years so wait a second if you criticize the way they run elections they don't let you participate in the elections yes that's crazy but
if you had this kind of law here in US it wasn't only a muggy shot in Georgia that Trump would take Trump would be out of the ballots I think that is really unfair you do not let him run because he met ambassadors and criticized the electoral process and the other EXC that they created is because he made a public state statement after September 7th because it's our independence day so we had a military parade and after that he crossed the street going to a square where we have I don't know almost one million people
waiting for him he did a speech and the court electoral Court said this was political abuse come on and we cannot expect a fair judgment because all of the justice that are going to judge my father they are appointed by leftwing presidents Lula and Juma plus Alexandra which is a personal enemy of J bonaro following this interview the very judge Eduardo was criticizing took the very sharp unusual step of seeking to restrict his travel outside the country so was it our in-person interview and our DC Bureau that triggered this action was it Eduardo's participation in
CPAC a conference that brings together Global conservative activists and leaders to us the fact that there there would be an effort to try to constrain Eduardo bolsonaro's travel Only reinforces Our concern that Brazil is headed in the wrong direction so we wanted to zoom out and reflect on what happens if Brazil continues to backslide and how the United States can play a productive role in reversing these troubling Trends joining us now is Brazilian journalist Paulo figaredo Pao thanks for being here are people in Brazil today concerned about eroding democracy and authoritarianism under President Lula well
let me answer the question in numbers uh Paul by an Institute parap esus uh last year said that 61% of Brazilians are afraid of expressing their views on social media 61% so that's the state of the country and right now although uh president bonaro is leading all the polls for 2026 uh when the next presidential election is due I think uh most people think he won't be able to run against the Socialist Lula the Sila who is the sitting president yeah that's not a democracy then what do you think drives that fear among such a
large percentage of Brazilians that merely expressing a perspective online could result in harm well the fact that uh we had thousands of Brazilians already in prison or prosecuted somehow by the Justice Alexander de Moray who is the def facto dictator of Brazil among these people are regular citizen including 70y old uh women and uh 75y old men but also journalists like myself and others that are under Exile and right now we're under the U possibility that even the son of former president bolsonaro uh Congressman Eduardo bolsonaro that has been on your show uh is in
the possibility of uh staying in the United States in Exile as well so you're not we have a congressman in prison who have senator Ence we have regular people prosecuted you're not safe if you're in Brazil and you're against the Socialist regime that is in place right now it does seem that way and we've been following closely what happened to Eduardo and this threat about his travel being restricted by the current government there is that just driven by the bolsonaro name having a lot of popularity in this moment in time or is there is there
any credible allegation against Eduardo balcaro at all well the allegation is that he is betraying the country trying to explain in the United States what's happening in Brazil so they claim he has a role on this offensive that the Trump Administration is starting very in a timid manner uh to play against the Socialist regime in Brazil against uh justice Mori so what they're saying is that bson is spreading thisinformation against his own country in the United States and and and coordinate an attack against our institutions therefore he's betraying the country and we should seize his
passport do you think that Eduardo bolsonaro may be in some Jeopardy of arrest or phony charges like we've seen against his father oh he definitely is he definitely is uh what I'm saying is not here say uh there's a decision waiting on the desk of the same Justice moras that that guy that looks like a James Bond villain that had a feud with Elon Musk it's the same uh justice that is uh is going to trial uh former president bolsonaro and myself I'm I'm also um um in the same indictment and uh and Eduardo bolsonaro
uh he's he's has a petition on his desk to evaluate if he's going to seize Eduardo B bolsonaro's passport or not you mentioned that you don't even believe Jer bolsonaro will be allowed to run in the next presidential election Eduardo expressed a a different perspective on our show believing that there would be a Vindication through a legislative vehicle um what informs your belief that there really will be no opportunity for the voters of Brazil to make a democratic choice on these two different visions of leadership well uh what I said is that most people in
Brazil don't believe he'll be able to run I'm more optimis optimistic just as Eduardo I think there's not only the legislative um um procedure that might um give bolaro the possibility to run again but also I believe that there's uh an important role that the United States foreign policy will play in pressuring the Brazilian government to reestablish the full democracy and uh free elections in the country and in this situation former president bolaro would be able to run again and if he's if he's able to run again he will win we had Eduardo bolsonaro make
a direct appeal to the Trump Administration to send vice president JD Vance to Brazil to call out these departures from the Norms that we would like to think about in a free Society where people can share their views and run for office how do you believe the United States government should handle these declining uh Democratic conditions right here in our near abroad well the United States uh should redirect its foreign policy well first because uh the situation that's happening in Brazil the United States the Biden administration had a big role on it not only funding
all disinformation uh uh campaigns in Brazil through usaid but also sending its top officials in 2022 to make sure uh this same Justice morise was not challenged uh during his electoral process they actually sent light Austin Bill Burns uh um Victoria nulan uh and others directly to Brazil to put pressure on Brazilian public officials and military leaders to make sure Moray was not challenged and and so Lula could get elected so that's the United States had a role an important role in the situation Brazil but also Brazil is very important you say it's you say
it's an important role but that sounds like a corrupt role and so I want to know if you think some of that is still ongoing do you believe that there are leftists in the United States who are still pulling the strings with Justice morice and animating some of these anti-democratic actions I think president Trump did a good thing stopping all us Aid money that was funding the censorship industrial complex in Brazil but right now Brazil doesn't even have an ambassador yet so all the people that are in charge of the Brazilian ambassy are the same
people that were in charge during the Biden Administration so I can tell you for sure what I can tell is that there's a lot to be done and it's uh fairly easy if the if Donald Trump wants president Trump wants he can reestablish democracy in Brazil uh with just US foreign policy no intervention just the fact that he can sanction uh justice Mori with uh using the magnin act and then he can uh impose Financial sanctions the ofac sanctions against the Justice uh there's also other diplomatic measures that he can use but so far I'd
say uh the Trump Administration did not actually start their work in result it seems like there's a lot of work that has to happen there and and you were about to tell me what happened happens if Brazil Falls what happens if Brazil becomes this authoritarian State Beyond uh you know beyond any Quick Fix do you think that will have spillover effects throughout the rest of Latin America so we're talking about the country other countries in Latin America follow Brazil it's half of South America in terms of territory GDP and and population uh Brazil is the
Dreamland for China because Brazil has everything China needs from Rare Earth minerals Brazil just sold uh last month the largest uranium Reserve in the Amazon jungle to the Chinese uh Brazil also has a lot of food which the Chinese desperately need uh Brazil has the second iron or producer in the world uh energy Powerhouse that produces more oil than most opep countries and who controls Brazil controls the South Atlantic Ocean so from a geopolitical perspective I'd say there are no other country in this continent that's more important United States than Brazil the problem is it
looks like the United States government is not completely aware of that but the Chinese government is definitely aware is uh the Chinese are buying all the infrastructure in the country is becoming more and more common if you have a company that operates in some strategic infrastructure sector uh to have people that speak mandering uh as translators during during the meetings so and this is happening fast yeah honestly what what you just said is why I have highlighted this on the program tonight you have a massive economy with a huge population of people and boundless natural
resources and this goes one of two ways they come our way or they go toward China and when you have a socialist government repressing speech stopping Association threatening to jail political opponents trying to jail a journalist that ought to get the attention of the United States a lot more than the things that have happened itions away that seem to get the obsession of US policy makers and so I think it's a it's a really important point you make that we have to pay attention to what's happening in Brazil it's right under our nose it's critically
important and our loss here will be China's win and once the Chinese move in it becomes very difficult to untangle that and it sounds like they're on the March right now PA figuro before I let you go where can folks continue to follow your reporting and your particular case my social media at ROP figuro I'm on every single one of thank you so much for being here to share your perspective and we look forward to checking back in thanks for having me
