Four Stages of Courtship ~ Fr. Ripperger

In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost. Amen. Strength, O Lord, all our actions by thy holy inspirations and carry them on by thy gracious assistance. So that every prayer and work of ours may be in from thee and by thee behavior through Christ our Lord. Amen. Our lady most chasteed pray for us in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost. Amen. Okay. This conference is on the four stages of courts share. And the reason it's four stages as you'll see is there's different stages. It also indicates that courtship is a process

which means you have to start at one point and you have to uh go to the it's order towards a specific end. And that brings up a very important point that we want to talk about first before we actually um uh talk about the courtship itself. In every moral action there are three components. The first is called the object of the moral act. That's basically what you're doing. It's the means to achieve the end. The second is co is the end itself. Why why am I what why am I doing this? What am I trying

to achieve in that process? Three, the circumstances that surround it. So anytime I perform a moral act, the principle of the integral good states that I have to have all three of these have to be uh good or neutral. At least they all have to be good. Otherwise uh what I will is evil. So if the means I'm using is evil then uh in the end what I'm willing is evil and so the ends don't justify the means etc. Okay. So all these three have to go into what's this got to do with courtship? Courtship

is a means towards a specific end and the end of courtship is marriage but in a very specific way. The uh in the sense that when you're going through courtship the the primary thing that courtship is about is virtue. It's not about whether the guy or girl is good-looking. It's not about although that can help. It's not about um the enjoyment you get out of the process. That's not why it's there. It's actually there to determine does this person have sufficient virtue to either be a good wife or a good husband. That's the real question

because otherwise there's no reason to actually have a process. If it's all just about following your appetites and doing what's pleasurable, you wouldn't have a courtship. You wouldn't even have a dating process. You just walk down the street, you saw some good-looking girl, you would just say, "Hey, you want to get married?" "Yes." You'd go to a Justice of the Peace and just say, "Let's get hitched." And you would there would be no process at all. Okay? But there's an actual process. And it's because we have to people say, "Well, I have to find out

if you're compatible." One of my favorite lines in all of Hollywood is uh from the movie Adam's Family Values and Morticia says to Gomez when Fester gets married to this woman who's not the best woman on the planet. He said she says to him, "Aren't they a lovely couple?" Oh, no, sorry, take it back. He says, "Aren't they a perfect couple?" And he says, "She's a woman. He's a man. Perfect match." Okay, the point being is is that this is it's not about whether there's a compatibility or not, although that's part of it too. It's

ultimately about virtue and virtue in a very specific way. So before we get to the four stages, the next thing we have to do since it's about virtue, why why is why is it about virtue? Because virtue is a set of good habits. When a person has a specific virtue in a specific area, it tells me this is how this person is more than likely to act in this area of behavior. So when it comes to virtue, if a person has sufficient virtue to be married, it means that when you get married, they will have

sufficient virtue to act in a virtuous way, in a consistently good way. If they don't have virtue, it means that when they get married, they're not going to act in a virtuous way. They're going to act in an evil or a harmful way. and it's going to be difficult to have common life with them. Okay. So the whole goal is to determine do they have the sufficient virtues a to live in common B to raise children properly to fulfill their duties and their state in life etc. So the whole thing is determining that so that

when you actually get to that common life then all the other things surrounding it like romance which we'll talk about here in a minute, romance and things like that will all find their proper place. Okay. So uh St. Thomas says that honor and you heard me talk about this honor is praise or an intellectual recognition of the excellence of somebody. So it's praising someone for excellence or it's an intellectual rec rec uh recognition that this person has a certain excellence that is important. Okay. So honor is due to excellence. This is very important because certain

people want places of honor but they don't have any excellence. So people who are running for office who want positions of honor but they have absolutely no virtue have no business being there. Okay. St. Thomas says excellence in human beings he says is consumate with virtue. So that the person that honor the praise given to somebody should be because of virtue. That's really what it boils down to a recognition that there's some excellence some good thing in this individual and that is virtue. So um this is a very key point because according to the natural

law the one of the primary functions of the father and husband is to protect the honor of his wife and his daughters. And by honor, we mean to protect their virtue so that it's his place to make sure that nothing gets into the family that's going to impact the virtue of their daughters and the uh and his wife. And and that's one of by virtue we mean temperance in relationship to matters of the sixth and nth commandments. But we also that's it one of its primary meanings. But it also means just virtue in general. So

because that's his primary obligation, the saints has been very clear to say that it pertains to the father in protecting that excellence or that virtue. It pertains to him to make the final judgment about whether a man can marry his daughter or not because it's his job, the father's job to protect the honor of his daughter. part of the natural law. Doesn't matter how old she is, right? It's his place to do that. And so, in the end, he his place is to make sure that the guy that's going to court his daughter and marry

her is honorable. That's the primary thing he has to do. Look at this. Is this guy honorable? And is he going to have virtue? It's not does he have financial prospects? Although that's a legitimate question. It has to be will he do right by my daughter? Will he actually help my daughter save her soul? That's the question. Okay. Once the so when the f if the father gives permission for a man to court a girl or he gives her per permission to marry uh in the mar in the marriage process the the the uh or

sorry in the courtship process the father's basically watch should be watching or paying attention to some degree not sit there with a shotgun and watching every minute but he should be at least paying attention to see to make sure that how this guy relates to his daughter is done in virtue. That how that's done in virtue is going to determine how which means what things people can do in the various stages of the courtship. Too many people ask me the question, well, can you do this? Can you do that? Can you do this? And it's

always violations of the sixth commandment, right? They're asking, can you do? The answer is, okay, well, first of all, why are you even asking those questions? What about our honor here? If a guy is even asking that question, you already should say I don't have anything to do with him because he does he's not looking out for the woman's well-being. Right? Okay. So then once they get married at marriage at marriage the father brings the daughter down the um I think I've talked a little bit about this here before but the do the father brings

the daughter arm and arm to the altar place which is where the marriage vow is going to be exchanged. When he gets there, he lifts the veil, which is a which is a sign to the h the the guy that's about to be her husband. You make because he can now see her face. You may now contract bodily rights with my daughter. So, I'm giving consent to this. After he lifts the veil, he takes her hand and he hands it over to to the uh to the gentleman who's about to become her husband. And the

reason that's done is it's a passing of headship. And the headship is there again for what? for honor in relationship to his wife to protect to make sure that okay you're going to now it's your responsibility to protect her honor not mine and it's your place to take care of her to leave her to heaven etc. Okay. So, this means in the courtship process, cuz people always ask me, well, what's the what's the story with dating and courtship? What's the difference? Well, it's kind of they've started to define them differently. They basically say, well, dating

is just people who are doing it for recreational purposes, right? If my goal is to find out that this person has sufficient honor or virtue, then really it's not about, hey, am I going to get to make out on the first date? Am I going to get to do this? you know, let's go over and do this, right? There's that's not going to be the question. The question is is going to be um you know, let's be in situations where we can make sure that our relation I can see that you have virtue or not.

Okay. So then in the first stage of courtship, the technical first stage of courtship is friendship. Once in a while I'll hear people say it was love at first sight. First thing that runs through my mind is you're an idiot. Why? Because you're not love is willing the good of another. Now there's two kinds of love. There's love where you want what's best for the other person, but the other one what's good for them or but you also want the other person who's good for you for yourself. How do you know this person's good or

not? So, people will say, "I don't have a problem with people kissing on the first date." Really? How do you know the guy isn't an axe murderer? How do you know that? You don't know he's not an axe murderer. You're kissing this guy. He's an axe murderer and you don't know. Axe murderers can be quite kind, by the way, and be very nice, right? But you don't know that he's you could be an axe murderer or even worse, right? So, oh, he's not that he's a nice guy. What's that got to do with it? You

have no clue about this guy's moral character on the first date. None. So don't tell me you I love him, which means I went from How do you know that? All you're telling me is you had some type of physiological reaction or the chemistry worked out where you just I just really think she's beautiful. Yeah. In scripture it says her beauty deceiveth thee. Okay. So be careful. All right. Friendship St. Aristotle says and then St. Thomas picks it up. Friendship is a mutual love in which the uh it's platonic is what we would say in

English in which the people are not seeking after romantic love. So what is romantic love? Romantic love is a type of love in which the behaviors are ordered towards union, physical union. That's what it's ultimately about. So people who engage in romantic things just for the sake of romantic things are actually it's like practicing contraception or it's like fornication right where you're just doing it for the sake of the enjoyment but it doesn't it's not achieving its proper end romantic doesn't have any place in this than this particular first stage and this takes a little

while anywhere from 3 to 6 months I tell people sometimes it takes a little while sometimes not sometimes you can pretty much size up and you can talk to other people say oh yeah she's really virtous etc. So the friendship thing but this basically means at this stage the mutual love is what say Aristotle says it's based on virtue. So the in this first stage the what you're basically doing at this stage is developing a friendship with a person so that you have sufficient interaction within a public sphere so that you're trying to determine whether

this person has sufficient virtue to go to the next step which is actual courtship. Does this person actually have the sufficient virtue? There should be absolutely no signs of affection exchanged between each other. Obviously, people who are first considering whether they're going to there's going to be because people aren't stupid, they're going to recognize this person's kind of interested in me. That's fine. But there has to at this stage have absolute detachment from the other person. If they're going to have clarity of judgment because our attachments affect our judgment, they have to have absolute detachment

in relationship to the other person to make sure that I have clarity of judgment about this person's virtue or lack thereof. Okay. So the first stage is friendship which is basically this period of time you're trying to get to know does this person have sufficient virtue? If they don't then you bail and you go somewhere else, right? If they do then and you decide uh you know sometimes women can have sufficient virtue but a guy might just think well she has sufficient virtue but really I would uh uh I like blondes rather than brunettes or

something like that. Or he could just say he could just say, "Well, yeah, she's got sufficient virtue, but uh quite frankly, I uh I'm kind of a guy that would rather sit at home on the weekends and enjoy outdoor cooking rather than going and shooting deer in the weekends like she likes to do or something like that, right? So, there might be certain things that are not just going to quite line up and they realize, oh, she's good, but we're just not built for each other psychologically or emotionally, what have you." Okay, which is perfectly

legitimate, right? Sometimes guys ask me in fact this one guy asked me he says well does shouldn't chemistry say a pin pay play a certain role in this I said yes in the sense that when you develop the friendship and you realize they have sufficient virtue that's when you say do I have chemistry with this person because if you don't if you have no chemistry at all it's going to make the the marital life difficult so there should be at least some jokingly I have said and there's a certain truth in it that I don't

care how beautiful the woman is or sorry, let me back up. I don't care how ugly a woman is. If she has virtue and you marry her, you'll be happy the rest of your life. Even if you have to put a bang over her head. All right? It's whereas I don't care how beautiful she is. If she's not virtuous, you will pay for it the rest of your life. It is the exact same thing in relationship to men and women in relationship to men. If the guy, I don't care how handsome he is, how much

money he's got, if he's not virtuous, you'll be miserable. And the the converse of that is the case. Okay, it does it it should a woman actually look to see if a guy has money. Okay, because that's a bit that's a question. What she has to look to see is if he can fulfill his obligations of marriage. Can he assume the obligation marriage? Is he in a position or would he be shortly after marriage be in a position to financially support us? If he's not, then it has to be a bit of a hiatus. Okay.

Um or if he's just not ever going to be capable of it, well then you shouldn't marry him. Okay. The next stage then is courtship. And what is what what's the hallmark of courtship? The hallmark of courtship is the beginnings of exclusivity. It's the beginnings. At the friendship level, the person's free to go and have courtship with anybody they want. But once you actually agree that you're courting, then there's a recognition of okay, we're going to put other considerations of other people aside and we're going to cons cons uh consider more directly or more intimately

whether we have sufficient virtue for this. So the courtship then can only begin once the man should only begin although people do it out of order. He should go to the father and say do you can I have permission to court your daughter? And if he says no, well, sorry. Okay. But if he says yes, then the courtship should essentially contain one thing. And people ask this, they they ask this to me all the time. Can you start when do you start showing signs of affection? Not at this stage. The principal function of courtship is

to show that you have self-denial in relationship to the other individual. That's what its principal function is. Can I be around this person and sacrifice my own desires, my own wants? Can I sacrifice myself to make sure that this person gets what's best for them? That's the essential structure of courtship. So that you're around them in a moderated way. You're around them more frequently. You should not normally be alone, but you're around them more frequently to get a better sense of their virtue. You need to spend more time with them because people can fake. But

over the course of courtship, which should last 3 to 6 months, the person you're not going to hide 6 months in, right? There if there's any kind of frequency of being around them. Second of all, again, there's no signs of affection. Why? This is a huge thing and it's something that's so gargantuan that it's so obvious that people don't see it. Aristotle has this phrase. He says that the more self-evident a thing is, the more difficult it is to see. And this is one of those. Why is there no signs of affection at this stage?

Very simple. The nature of affection in human beings, for example, kissing or holding hands even or just, you know, just putting arms around each other, the very nature of that sets off chemical reactions in the brain that cause attachments to the individual. It's specifically designed, our brains are designed and structured so that when we go through these things, there's a bonding process that occurs through it. Then the problem is is that if you're doing that at this stage, there is no guarantee that you are going to fulfill the structure because what is that bond ordered

towards? The bond is ordered towards permanency. It's ordered towards marriage. you're creating emotional bonds so that the person will hold tight to you, but there's no guarantee you're going to hold tight to them. You can just walk at any time. So, to begin engaging in um matters of affection at this stage is directly contrary to justice, especially of the man in relationship to the woman because women are more designed to have that bonding process according to their brain structure than men. So when they start when you start doing that, you're setting up a situation where

you could end up harming her or hurting her when you walk away because now she's going to have to suffer. And as a result of that, when you start doing those signs of affection and courtship, you are committing an injustice against her because you're setting up a situation where you have no obligations and you could walk and she could get hurt. That means you are inherently not protecting her honor. That's the very structure of it. You're not protecting her virtue. You're not protecting what's best. You're not doing what's best for her. And so I tell

guys, if you can't control yourself at this stage, you're a pig and get out of her life. Okay, very key observation. It's inherently it's a sin against justice to uh in foster signs of affection in people when they can't become to completion. This is one of the things that people aren't paying any attention to. Okay. So, courtship should be a stage process where you get to know you find out if they have virtue. In that process, you also got to find out that she's got a lot of virtue, but there's this one area where she's

not got so much virtue. Okay? As long as it's not grave, then you have to ask yourself, well, she doesn't have virtue in this era. She's only got just a little bit. Is it grave? You know, so for example, you might find out that, you know, you start dating some woman and you go, you take her out to eat and she's eating everything on her plate and your plate, the guys next to you plate and the other plate and she's okay. Can you put up with the fact that she's going to eat you out of

house? All right. The point being is is that that's what you're looking for. All right. in relationship to so the but in in the courtship stage the main thing he's looking for in her the main thing he's looking for in her is that ability to submit in marriage can she submit to his decisions can she submit to his lead what he's look what she's looking for is love which by the way is interesting because most women say I got married for love and that's not what I got Okay. Why is she looking for love? The

principal aspect of love is on the side of the person who loves someone else is they will sacrifice themselves and go without for the sake of the beloveds having the good. That's what she has to look for. Is this guy willing to sacrifice himself for me? Is he willing to say no to himself? Is he willing to go out and do hard and difficult things and suffer for me? Or is he just a selfish pig and he I can't can't keep get his hands off me? Right? That's the That's what she's ultimately looking for. Does

he have the virtue of self-sacrifice and self-discipline and her and he's looking for does she have that self-sacrifice and self-discipline of her own interior life and reble being able to submit? That's what you're looking for here. If there's a sign of that, right? And we're not talking about just external. He needs to see that she wants to submit. She wants to be under somebody who's rightly ordered. Okay. The next stage then is betroal. If they recognize be oops got try and get it spelled right here betroal I think I got that right in betroal in

English we a lot of times we call this engaged in the mind of the church in the past now it's all to the winds in the mind of the past the church did not consider you what we would call engaged until you went through the right of betroal. Okay. So once I recognize this person has the proper virtues, I decide I want to marry them. I want to spend the rest of my life with them. Then you then you go and you propose. First he has to go to the father and then say okay I've

been courting your daughter for this month. I think she you know I love her. I want to marry her. Do I have your permission to do so? If he says if he looked at it and said no you weren't acting virtuously through this whole process. You're out of here. then that's it. It's over. By the way, the father has a right to end the courtship at any time according to the natural law. Now, most fathers wouldn't do that and most daughters wouldn't submit, but I'm just telling this what the natural law is set up. But

once he then if he says yes, you may marry my daughter, then he asks the do the w the the girl, will you marry me? And she says yes, you still cannot offer signs of affection yet. Why? saying yes is no guarantee in any way whatsoever because why people say yes and they leave all the time rather they have to once that she says yes and I've seen guys actually do this who actually understand the structure they literally have a priest waiting in the offing so that as soon as she says yes great let's go

stand in front of the priest and you go through the right of betroal which is a series of promises that yes I will marry you once the person promises that they will marry them then they are bound to the marriage unless there's grave cause as a result of that at that stage moderate forms of affection can then begin because the bonding process that occurs through the affections fi can be guaranteed that they're not going to be broken by this pro because of this promise that's the structure of it okay so obviously this means During the

time of betroal, he has to take on even more obligations to protect her virtue and to help her grow in virtue. It's at this stage that she should be showing more of a a submission to him and and his leadership in relationship to the spiritual matters primarily. They should be praying together, doing certain things together, etc. As far as that goes, should they be alone? Normally speaking, no. Only because why? Again, it's to protect or honor. Even if there's no danger of them violating the sixth or ninth commandments in each other's presence alone, the problem

is is that because of our culture, because of how people think, if people see that people are alone for a long extended period of time, they're going to look at the woman and just say she has no virtue, right? Because obviously we know what they're doing. Well, maybe not. But the point is is that that's what people think. And so he has to protect other people's view of her. That's his job. Okay. So during this betroal process, the betroal now the church requires ultimately uh 3 to 6 months depending on the dascese. So in the

betroal process the um this is when you're spending a lot more time in common but at this point you're developing the virtues together and you're helping each other work on each other's respective difficulties and working on those particular things. Again can you show signs of affections? Very moderated. It can't be the the general principle is is that it should not cause either thoughts or phys physical reactions in the individual that would incline them to violate the sixth or ninth commandments which means that they're going to be very very moderated. Okay. Um the uh let's see

there was something else once the people get to a certain stage in relationship to the um the patrol. So they get they get ready to marry then the last stage is they get married. But before we do that, what are we looking for in the case of betroal? Remember, in courtship, the principal thing you're looking for is can this guy deny me or sorry, can this guy deny himself in relationship to me? Because if he's not going to deny himself in relationship to me here, he is not going to deny himself in relationship to me

in the marriage. That's how it's going to work. So the first thing you're doing is can he just completely go without when it's necessary? Yes. But going completely without something is a lot easier most of the time than having a moderated use of this. You see this with alcoholics, right? They drink to the point where they get excess and then at a certain stage they just have to cut the thing out altogether. And going back to a stage where they can drink in a moderate way is extraordinarily difficult. We find this with our own cells

in relationship if we've had a real problem in relationship to um uh to like say a particular kind of food or something like that a lot of times we have to just cut it out completely to gain a certain kind of control over it and then when we go back to moderate it to keep it moderated is often more difficult than the initial cutting off. In the stage of betroal, what you're looking for is can he moderate himself in relationship to me. That's what I'm looking for. And vice versa. Cuz if he can't moderate himself

and he just wants to do stuff that's not appropriate for the time, it's a sign he doesn't have sufficient virtue. And you shouldn't even have gotten to that stage anyway. You shouldn't have gotten a betroal. You should have figured that out usually in courtship, which usually comes out there. But in the betroal that's the time in which they're supposed to de be developing the virtue of moderation in each other. This is no you know nothing there sorry here it's okay now you get to have moderated signs of affection but you have to it have to

be moderated in order to build the virtue so that when you're married you can moderate yourself in relationship to each other. Most marriages are difficult because the the the spouses do not have moderation in relationship to each other. That's what the problem is. That's why this has to have this kind of a structure. If you look at the in the past in certain Catholic countries, this was the structure that was followed to a tea precisely to observe all that so that you wouldn't have these particular difficulties. Second, the virtues that you develop together, by the

time you get to here, because love is willing the good of another. If it's based in virtue, you're going to see the virtue of the other person, then that's going to be the thing you're going to love about them more than the way they look, right? And so, when you get married, it's less of a problem. But it really boils down to in betrothed, do I moderate how I relate to that individual? And that's that's the key thing. And then in marriage, of course, the what's the moderation? The natural law. So anything in relationship to

the 609th commandments has to be circumscribed by the natural law. And as long as you do that, that's the moderating factor. Okay, that's the structure. Now, most people don't have a clue when they first look at this, but when they first hear this, like, well, okay, this makes sense. The key thing is to recognize the fact that signs of affection and gender of bonding for which you are not being just to that person by doing so because you're not guaranteeing that the bond for which you are ordering that the type of bond you're doing is

going to could be broken and cause pain which is unjust. Okay, that's one of the key things I think most people don't grasp. All right, any questions? Yeah. In the courtship stage and we're supposed to be trying to figure out if you know they have virtue or not. People aren't perfect. So would that also be a stage where you might correct each other, help each other develop virtue? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're going to help them develop virtue at this stage. Um but it's uh it's it's it's this is more of the dis this is

kind of the beginning discovery phase. This is the more uh serious discovery phase. But yeah, and you would cuz you might correct me, you know, maybe you should try this or maybe you should try that. And in fact, it's usually a courtship stage. What's ironic is it's usually during the dating process that people are trying to fake you out, right? I'll just act perfect and then he'll love me and then I'll get married and then he'll find out what a schmuck I am. Okay. No, the point being is is that really the courtship phase should

be a stage of transparency. This is what I am. You know, sorry. you know if you if you can't live with it can't live with it or you know they when they see that then they can start hovering. So this is the stage where certain things will start to be revealed about their interior lives but it's not until they get to the betro that other things would be revealed but to answer your question yeah they would start helping each other like in doing the fraternal correction. Yes. How u do does it work in the dynamic

of um long distance relationships? Say you meet someone from another a cousin who comes in town or whatever and they have to go back or whatever. You're going to marry your cousin. No, no, cousin of a friend or you know I mean oh yeah somebody's cousin or whatever you know. Um the courtship process should be one to where you have sufficient contact with them to be able to ascertain the virtue. If it's long distance and you're just doing it through Skype longterm, you're never going to get to the point where you have sufficient knowledge about

them. So I would say as a general rule, as a general rule, no. So how much time are you saying they need to be fac uh in the courtship part? Oh, how much time? My experience is a month to two months if they've been already communicating regularly or just like somewhat daily. not every day somewhat day because even in the courtship stage they have to you know can't be living around each other all the time because that's lack of moderation too and same with the betroal there has to be recognition that okay I can go

do my business without you having to be around okay so but in the courtship stage and the um once you realize okay I think this person has sufficient virtue to go it takes about in my experience is people who do that say inevitably they'll always say a month in I realized the person was a problem so it's about a month to two months So I don't recommend dating long distance unless it's an arranged marriage in which case all of this is contracted to um because this part is no is no longer part of the equation.

The person just has to agree to the betroal and then from there they go into the marriage because these two parts are supposed to be being judged by the parents first before they arranged marriage. This is part of the equation just not necessarily for the people getting married in arranged marriage but it is part of the equation for the parents. They need to be looking at this. Does this kid have sufficient virtue? Not is it going to get me up socially? Does this kid have sufficient virtue? And then if they do then if they agree

to it then fine. But if not according to the church even in arranged marriages the two parties can say no. So yes. Uh do they have shacks with them? Um out. Obviously in friendship they're never going to be alone together. In the courtship stage that if if they're going to go out they should be uh it should be in public all the time so that the public itself is it chaperon or be if they're going to be like say watching a movie in a house then there should be other people with them. Yes. Okay. And

um um how much time do they spend with each other's families at what stage? Uh usually I tell people that during the friendship court when when you decide to do the courtship that's when you have to go make the visit just before you ask them there should be some kind of interaction with the family. So you know if you if you realize well she seems to be a pretty decent gal and you go to the par that go to the house and it's you know uh people walking around with shotgun shooting at each other I

don't think you'd want to get that family but it should be right at this stage right before the courtship stops. you get a sense of what the family's like and then you say the father I'd like to court your daughter and then it's during the courtship stage that you're actually going to get to know the family. So which remember you marry your in-laws too. So always keep that in mind. So So I know I'm kind of dating a dead horse but I mean as far as the long distance as far as college when when couples

meet in college and then they're from two sides of the you know as far as meeting family and being around enough. Yeah, that wouldn't be much as if they're if they're still at the same college together. Um, and they're following these principles, they could I mean, they're going to see the the friendship will develop. If they decide to courtship, he's got to go to their parents or at least her parents and see them and ask for the courtship. And then at that point, too, the um the father has a legitimate right to say, you know,

why don't you come here for a week and see how things go, right? first before I say yes, you can see my daughter. Or they can say, "Yeah, you have right to to you can you can court my daughter, but I can cut this thing off." So that the parents get a chance to actually know them. But if they're gone for the summer times, that's not a problem. But they just have to realize that they have they still have to achieve that goal of um being able to discern that the person has sufficient virtue. And

if you wait for a long period of time, it doesn't mean they have sufficient virtue. The other thing is too is as it says in scripture now for beauty deceiveth thee. The problem with the the problem is is when we find people attractive it precipitates our judgment in such a way that when we see them we think they're better than they actually are. That's the problem. That's why I tell I tell guys you have to get past that to be able to discern her virtue. Because if you're looking at her trying to surmise her virtue

through how well good she looks, you're never going to figure her out ever. You're going to always judge it better than it actually is. You have to be able to put that completely aside and look at her in a very sober fashion and vice versa. So yes, so if a guy meets a girl, but he's he's getting the signs that she wants to kind of go a little bit too far as in emotionally. Yes. Affection. Should he just instantly say, you know, just break it off like that? Just say over. Get out of here. I'm

have nothing to do with you, woman. Get away. Cuz I know you mentioned that with the with the guy being that way with the girl. No, here's what's very interesting. Same way. The guys that have put this that I've taught this to and have put it into practice. That's always the dynamic. Initially, the woman wants to enter into this emotional thing much too quickly. And they just they didn't cut her off. What they did is they would put the brakes on it and they would explain look my job is to protect your honor and that's

in virtue and we can't become emotionally involved like this without it having an impact on your spiritual life and usually what they'll do is and they'll say here listen to father ripper and then it no because once you see the structure it actually makes sense right so that being the case because it makes sense once the woman it's it's it's hilarious as soon as she realizes hey he's denying himself for me, it's just like this is my this is the guy for me, right? Usually that's what happens, right? So, it's once they she recognized he's

denying himself for me that actually is a stronger um attraction than it is actually just the emotional and they'll actually like yes, I can do this. I can go along with this. But there's the ver there's the inversion of that. If she isn't willing to deny herself emotionally in relationship to you in the beginning stages, she will never subordinate in marriage because she's going to be following her emotions and not reasoning. So that's why you have to get them on board. And it's really funny because once you get them to recognize, look, this is about

us discerning each other's virtue sufficiently and looking out for each other's honor, then the women are like, he's looking this is so wonderful, right? They love the idea, but then at the same time, it makes it easier for them to say, "Okay, I can put my emotions aside and do what I need to do." And so, even in these earlier stages, and in fact, I tell guys, that's one of your first cues. If she says, "No, I still want an emotional relationship or I still want more. This is absurd. This is ridiculous." Bail. Because she's

not following that detachment process. And she's what? She's she's a massochist, right? because in the sense that she's she's basically setting herself up to get hurt. So she's like the last kind of a person you want to be in. Although a lot of because people don't understand this, but if a woman has normal virtue and you explain this to them immediately they'll say that makes sense. I want to follow that and they'll do it. That's at least my experience with the guys that it's usually the guys that are the problem. But that's not so much

so these days. It's starting to change. So yes, just ask a question. How important it is is it that the person you're interested be of the same faith? Uh well in the past the church having Catholics marry non-atholics was a toleration. That's why you couldn't get married in the church. You had to get married in the sacry or over in the rectory. So it was considered a toleration. Um and so I tell people that uh basically it's very imprudent to marry someone other than a Catholic because when it comes to raising the children there is

almost always going to be interference in that process almost always so you're better off just marrying a Catholic and not just some guy who becomes Catholic because he's wants to plate everybody who actually makes that is actually Catholic. So there's a few exceptions to the rule, but those exceptions prove the rule really that yeah, except for a few exceptions, they're all they all end up interfering and becomes a problem, especially because the Catholics will start saying like, look, I don't I don't want them looking at pornography on the internet, you know, and then the guy's

going to say, well, I don't have a problem with that, you know, because he doesn't believe that those things are immoral, right? So you're going to end up with stuff like that. Yes. Yeah. The biggest issue kind of we've found in our family with that is um if the person doesn't know about confession, doesn't go to confession, then you got this couple, they start bringing up each other's faults, you know, what what does the non-atholic do with it? I mean, how do they now they're you know, they don't have they can't go to confession. They

don't know about confession, right? So, how are they going to handle it, you know? So it usually what happens is it becomes well yeah maybe I'm like this but you're like that right it just I don't have I honestly don't know how I don't have it yeah well it it does with some people a lot of it just depends on how much they can forgive each other and how much they can move past it how much they love each other um etc. So, you know, one of the signs, one of the other signs that fostering

those emotional bonds is unjust is what happens is is by doing that, you're also affecting that other person's judgment even about you. And so, in that process, you're setting someone else up to basically make a decision that's not fully voluntary. And that's a that's a serious issue. So you have to be really careful about all this just be you know be detached all the way up through the patrol stage that's when you can start to be build those rightly ordered attachments but even those have to be moderated. Okay. Yes. Um, so I'm kind of um

reiterating my brother's question just earlier like what if um a guy what if it's the other way around? Yeah. Yeah. If a guy is showing too much emotional affection or too much physical interaction, but you correct him and and he realizes it and you and he you teach him about the courtship process and he accepts it, then would that be okay? Yeah, that's fine. It's the It works the same way. You just have to make sure that he's not just, okay, I'll just do this until she gives in. Okay. You have to be careful with

that. But you'll see it. I mean, you'll be able to tell if the person's, "Yeah, you're right. This is the way it should be and let's do it." You know, and even if he struggles a little bit with it, as long as that's what his intention is and he does it, then he's generally speaking okay. But you want to just make sure by the time you get married, he's got that somewhat under control. He's got that discipline in relationship even to you. That's one of the key things. So, um, but yeah, whereas if he if

he can't if he doesn't do that, then you just have to say, "Look, this isn't going to work." Because when you get married, he's going to either smother you or drive you bananas or he's, you know, he's just he's emotionally he's going to be vomiting all over you all during marriage. Yeah. To put it grossly. [Music] Okay. No questions. All right. If you'll kneel, I'll give you a blessing. Benedict. Amen.