this is Joseph he started a community of founders that are making a million dollars annual revenue with viral apps crazy part is most of them aren't even developers they just figured out exactly how to go viral and get eyeballs on their products and I've seen several of those pop up in the past few months as well a lot of them earning like 10k MR in the first month what I'm really obsessed with is growth hacking and finding the people that are the best at growth hacking they just made a new a brand new Instagram account the first video they ever posted was 150k views completely brand new account joseph reveals how he uses short form videos to go viral and exactly how he finds the creators and trains them to do it you can you can go viral on your very first video on a brand new account the arbitrage is just you need to find this talent somehow so I go on LinkedIn and I make these posts i think this is also an untapped talent pool and the biggest business opportunities he would start today i mean you could you could get to 10K in the first week actually if you just And every single time they asked me the same thing they're like "What agency do you recommend like is there an organic agency that can help me find creators? " It's definitely a huge opportunity that just has not been unlocked i interviewed Joseph while he screen shared a ton of different examples of what's really working the actual templates and tools he uses including his newsletter funnel to get new creators specific examples of virality even on brand new accounts and the best business ideas and exactly how to start them as always all the tools mentioned will be linked in the description below plus Joseph's exact Notion template he uses to train creators to go viral check out the link in the description let's dive in you see a lot of this underpriced attention and not only have you been a part of some of these viral apps you advise to a lot of others you have a lot of interesting people in your community what are some of the things that you're seeing that other people don't another thing that I always say is like I'm not the best app founder myself what I'm really obsessed with is growth hacking and finding the people that are the best at growth hacking so my community is just a collection of people that are really good at growth hacking and are building viral apps and one thing that I've seen recently is trying to find underpriced talent so if you think about like the old influencer marketing world you would find an influencer that has 100k you know million followers you would pay them I don't know like a,000 $5,000 to make a video and then they would make the video hey link in bio click the thing and then you know like a few years ago that worked great but then eventually like marketers poured into the influencer marketing space and now it's like very overpriced you'll reach out to an influencer they'll they'll say like 8K for like a single video and so like how do you find creators that will make scrappy videos that don't rely on huge follower accounts which by the way is like completely possible like you can you can go viral on your very first video on a brand new account so like the way that I that I thought about this in the in the beginning when I got started was what kind of agency could I start to help these app founders so I decided like let's let's do a recruiting agency so I built this newsletter funnel and it's basically just a newsletter that helps college students find jobs and I called it if you know you know careers and it has 15,000 subscribers and it's just a weekly newsletter that gives like internships and jobs it's just a variety of different jobs it gets like a 50% open rate every week the way I grow it is just LinkedIn posts so I just say like "Hey like make $50 an hour um there's a bunch of startups that want you to make Tik Tok videos you don't even need any followers you just have to be in college interested in a career in social media and comfortable on camera because the next step in this funnel is like you just ask them like "Hey are you interested in marketing? " And then I send them a a request to make a video so I go and ask them like a few questions i just say like "What's your bio like tell me about yourself what kind of content do you make what like what is the style of content that you're comfortable trying out and then I ask them to make a one minute video i just say like just introduce yourself and like make make a make a one minute video that follows these principles so anyone by the way is feel feel free to like I can put this in show notes or whatever but I just quickly outlined like it took me an hour to just like write this SOP and I basically just took some examples of good videos for example like this this client was Quizard.
ai they're an app that helps you do your homework as a college student uh and it uses AI to scan the homework problem and then it walks you through step by step so I just go on Spy Talk it's just tool that helps you find outlier videos so I do like study talk college student life just find some keywords find some outlier videos for example this this video was like a skit a skit video where it's like you know looking at the college student laptop kind of from behind in the in the lecture hall so I would like save this you know and then just put you know after saving a bunch of these videos I would put them into this notion page send it to all the leads that I got from the newsletter and the job application and then have them make one minute videos so this is like an example of like one of the kids that made a video he just said "Here here's like here's Quizard it's an app that helps you with your homework. " And then I just sent these leads to Quizard and you can charge you know like a flat rate recruiting fee so the ones that are highlighted these are the ones I they decided to hire you can charge like between like 1 and 3K flat rate similar to like a recruiting agency but it's just for like creators and the cool thing is like once they get hired the ones that didn't get hired like you can just use them for the next client and the more that you build up these leads you're just kind of like building up this this catalog so I think there's a huge opportunity to build like the Athena or like Oceans or somewhere you know these like man like these VA recruiting agencies but for just like college students to make content you've already dropped a few nuggets here first you have this newsletter that you've grown organically you sort of plug it through your LinkedIn and I'd imagine you don't write this newsletter yourself you probably have somebody that you've hired like one of the college kids who writes it yeah I do the same exact I mean I I double dip in my own like I like I hire interns out of my own newsletter and they and this isn't the first time you've grown a newsletter like this you've done this before yeah I've done this this is my third newsletter so the first one I ever did was also job seekers it got bought by a recruiting agency and then I did another one for marketers got bought by a marketing agency and then I just realized like the talent pool is just so powerful that I just decided not to sell this one and I just like I'm just going to keep it for talent purposes right and then the other thing you mentioned is like the name of the game is this underpriced attention and you are building this system where you could teach the creators who in this case the college students and you just need to find the the viral outlier and so use a tool called spy talk to do that then you aggregate all the learnings in your notion and anyone else could sort of start to do this for their own industry by first figuring out what are the proven viral content like themes or patterns exactly yeah and if you go into these some of these videos like you can I really think that organic is a science like everyone knows that Facebook ads is a science because you can split test and you know change the hooks change the CTAs organic is a little bit hard to harder to see how it's a science because you post a video and it feels like a lottery you're like hoping that it'll go viral if you look at like what is the hook what is a transcript this is what it's like to have your college dorm inside them all i mean obviously that's like a good hook but if you just go and like analyze hooks you can correlate like which videos you know hooks are correlated with the outlier number of views and engagement you know however you want to analyze it like you can now turn these insights into like 1 hour SOPs if you reach out to 100 college students 10 10 of them are really good at understanding this SOP then you've just trained an influencer basically that you can monetize through matching them with other brands as well as like your own brand or things that you're selling or what you've you've hinted at is potentially which we'll talk about too is creating your own app even if you're not a developer totally yeah yeah and then like what do you do once you get these influencers like I said like before you you don't need to have them have like a big follower count so another app that I advise is called Locks Club and they're this Jewish dating app and they're kind of like this exclusive like members club type of dating app and they have a pretty big social following already they make these like skit videos these funny like comedy videos with the team on Zoom uh you might have seen them on your IG reels feed and but they wanted to test out a new business so they have this other business of like matchmaking parties in order to test it out they just made a new a brand new Instagram account the first video that they ever posted was 150k views completely brand new account so I advise them yeah if you guys want to start this new business you should just like have your existing creator team just make make this new type of video on a new account so that you don't risk like showing your own followers and it worked like they got 150k views they just kept posting the same content format and they one of them hit like 800k views and there's this you know like IRL type of content and so you know you can do the same thing with your college student creators if as long as the video itself has the ingredients of virality you've basically now you have like the the winning lottery tickets like go on Spy Talk these are like winning lottery tickets if you if you copy these videos like word for word scene for scene it will it will get the same number of views as it did before obviously don't copy straight up but you know the algorithm the algorithm is very good like it'll it'll show it to to the right audience if the video is good what you're saying is you used to have to have this really big subscriber count and have these followers but now brand new account often go go viral so it's almost like if you're coming up with a business idea or you're thinking of different product launches maybe even before you develop the product or the software just test the content first on brand new accounts see if it pops maybe if nothing pops then don't don't make the product and then if if something does or maybe that informs the product that you want to start totally yeah yeah exactly yeah you can start with like you can start with the content so before we recorded we talked about how you're doing something really interesting that I haven't heard anyone else talk about in particular with the Tik Tok shop affiliate center can you share what you're up to there and how others can start using this too okay so this is this is pretty big i don't really see very many people talking about this because it's not really something that you would expect for the app space but Tik Tok shop you know it's it's an e-commerce platform where it connects creators to brands and then the creators earn affiliate commission on all the products that they sell through their videos so as a brand it's like really great because you get to grow risk-free you just upload your product and then affiliates just take a commission on all the sales that they get usually it's like between like 10 and 25% commission so there's tons of these creators just driving like tens hundreds of thousands of GMV and I think this is also an untapped talent pool where are all the apps all of these views all this GMV this could be going towards apps instead of just physical products and e-commerce and some people are currently doing this but it's just not it's just so early there's not that many people doing it like a lot of people use these like big kind of clunky enterprise like influencer outreach SAS programs and you know that's fine but the average influencer that you find on that on those platforms they're not proven like maybe they have a big follower count but these people are all proven like they they know how to make videos that actually sell products like I wouldn't even call these influencers they're almost like direct response marketers or like SDRs that just happen to make videos and their financial incentive is affiliate so they're actually like these people are machines so like for example let's think about like a niche that you could sell so if you have like a like let's just demo how this works anyone can access this by the way it's just Tik Tok shop affiliate center so let's think about like creators let's go to beauty let's do makeup skincare follower count let's not go for massive follower counts and let's say independent creators we don't want people who are managed by an agency and there we go so now let's see how many results this was i don't even know but it's a lot of results um all these all these creators have a consistent track record of like driving GMV for beauty products now we have to figure out okay how do we get how do we get them to make videos for us i mean Tik Tok shop makes it really easy like you have a thousand reachouts um you can just like invite them create an invitation write a message i would go into here and show him a message but I don't want to leak the things that I'm cooking up like for example let's think about like a color analysis app so this this guy just joined Consumer Club um he's building this app studio that recently acquired What Colors which is it's like a color analysis app so if you think about it like these beauty creators they're selling makeup products and skincare products the demographic that buys those products is the same demographic that would download this app where it basically like scans your face and it looks at your skin tone and your co your clothes and it says like here's the like the type of colors that you should be using for your fashion and and your makeup and stuff like that right so first you're in the very first example you're like you could go find the talent elsewhere off Tik Tok train them how to become content creators in this example you're saying or you could just go find the really good content creators who happen to all be selling physical e-commerce products and then the move you're you're explaining is like either create the software app such as color analysis that's aligned to what they already would be selling exactly totally yeah like and you could you could think of this for any other niche like there's all these categories like you could like there there could be an app for so many of these things apps for pets there's apps for babies there's apps for sports there's apps for home improvement i've seen an app that like scans your room and then it tells you where to put the furniture there's an app for every physical product also a slight tangent like there's a lot of the whole idea of like oh there's an app for that that idea has been around for like 15 20 years like since since the app store came into existence the difference now is that the distribution is underpriced first of all because of Tik Tok the second thing is that subscription revenue is the new meta back in the day when you could just upload an app to the app store and it would get a bunch of downloads there was all these apps that would get tons of downloads but then nobody wants to buy an app and the the the best way to monetize was like have a 99 cent app but now like people actually pay for apps like on subscription so like this app what are the plans what colors pro $30 so that's probably $30 annual plan and then $799 that's probably the weekly or monthly plan so they kind of price anchor it and their LTV is probably like at least 30 like another thing that's driving this is just changes in consumer behavior like Apple pay two clicks to do a subscription but then it's also one tap to like cancel subscription apple has made it so easy to sign up and to also cancel subscriptions so people are not as afraid to sign up for things and you know buy apps that bring them value so is is there any move for this that's more B2B or this is all sort of B TOC i think I think this is totally B2B like if you don't have an app idea or you don't want to start an app there's all these apps that exist already like you can this is quiet. app app this is the studio so you could get some ideas here you could also check out just like consumer club i also have a public list of like a bunch of app founders on Twitter you can just check out those but you could sell this service to them so instead of like reaching out to these Tik Tok shop creators for your own app you just do it as a service so you could do it you could structure it in a way that's where it's like one time fee 2 to 3k flat or you could do like a managed service where you manage the influencers and you have a basically a content management agency where you find the influencers and you manage them for a brand you know whether that's an e-commerce brand or an app or or any anyone else the third one is like talent agencies you can find influencers or creators and then you sign them as talent and then take a cut of the earnings that they get from the the brand deals that you bring them all all of these are like B2B business models that currently are making a lot of money it's just and there's just there's just so much more to be to be done in the space because if you ask the average brand owner who's tried influencer marketing hey how is influencer marketing going for you they will say all the they all say the same thing they're like "Oh yeah I tried reaching out to a few but they charge like 5k it's like too hard.
" But it's just not true like if you put in a little bit of work you find underpriced sources of talent and the creators agree and it's a good deal for them as well then you've just like unlocked that demand and that like hesitancy and that painoint of brand owners and business owners that want to try this influencer marketing stuff but they just don't know how it's definitely a huge agency opportunity that just has not been unlocked i've run this community for the past six months now and I do this onboarding call with every new member and every single time they ask me the same thing they're like "Oh what what agency do you recommend like is there an organic agency that can help me find creators? " I'm like "No there like there's just not that many like there were there were a few for e-commerce but there's just not that many for apps. " And it's just like if you want to start it for apps it's just the small nuances of like finding the you know the finding the video formats that work really well for apps and then training creators to to do those yeah i wanted to show one more there is another member he hit 10K in his first week by I I really like this this app idea it was it's called Preycreen i I also like their SEO they like put Opel like Opal is Opal and Hallow are the biggest competitors in the space cuz this app is basically a combination of Opal and Hello so Hallow is like a prayer app and then Opel is a screen time reduction app so it helps you block your apps on your phone so that you can spend less time addicted to your phone but they just combined the two niches and said like if you are a Christian and you want to pray more and you're addicted to social media use this app to do both at the same time and also another thing to note is like this guy he's not like CTO so he just like he has a marketing background and he just joins like communities and then like found co-founders for some of these apps like this is his fourth app actually so sometimes he like joins communities finds finds co-founders technically and then sometimes he goes on Upwork so I actually dove pretty deep into his like Upwork method he's able to hire on Upwork for like less than 5K for the entire project like sometimes as low as like 2K to develop the whole app to develop the entire app yeah and like there's so many people that think "Oh it's going to cost like 20k to make an app.
" Because like the people that reach out to you on LinkedIn they're like "Oh I have a dev shop it's going to cost you 15k 20k. " So that's what you just you know that's what you expect an app to cost but if you actually make a job application on Upwork and you say here's the type of app that we want to build there's going to get you're going to get applications of people that are willing to take it and you just have to filter for quality and it can be done if you really have completely no technical background though you can find co-founders like there's so many developers out there that are sick of their job their nineto-ive and they want to make money online there's people who do that as well like I have a couple of examples like this yeah one of my friends like joined a viral app founders group and just found a technical co-founder in the first week and you know did 50/50 equity split this other guy has a big Twitter following and then he just joined found a developer to team up with and you know just found a co-founder in the first week so there's there's like so many developers out there if you want to co-ound and then also Upwork like just make a job posting yeah and was it the like the Tabs Chocolate example that was the the first sort of really big version of this would you say yeah yeah it's really interesting like Tabs Chocolate Oliver Piccado he went from 0 to 10 million in a year just pure like Tik Tok marketing e-commerce it was a t It was a a chocolate brand aphrodesiac chocolate so it's like naturally Tik Tok viral but he used the same strat he got a Discord full of creators had them you know gave him a a Google Drve full of hooks and types of videos that they could make and then they just had you know he just pumped them out but then afterwards he just decided like hey I'm going to do the same thing but for an app so he made an app a studying you know AI studying app that's similar to some of these other ones he was one of he was one of the first and yeah he did the same thing he was like non-technical he just hired a team and now I think study buddy is pretty successful as well yeah that's awesome and where where do you see other opportunities for for people to go out and do this maybe if they're non-technical and sort of this marketing agency owner persona another thing that I think could be really huge is like this head of growth archetype all the examples I've given about okay maybe hire hire college student creators or hire you know overseas creators or hire Tik Tok shop creators it still all involves someone on the team to manage the whole process and have kind of an emotional buy in over that whole thing some teams don't have that like some teams are just purely technical and they just don't really know how to do marketing so I think there's also a huge opportunity for like a fractional head of growth agency where you have a fractional head of growth that leads the growth strategy not just finding the creators and managing them but actually driving the strategy and the creative strategy of like basically like going on to spy talk or going onto Tik Tok and searching for things and figuring out like what the strategy is and then training the creators you know putting these videos into an SOP following up the creators saying "Here's how your hook could be improved here's how your CTA could be improved. " that person ideally is also a creator and like for example I have this friend Daniel he's head of growth at this startup he has his own following he makes like funny vlog content um but then he's also the head of growth head of like Tik Tok like social media growth at this app startup and he started out as an intern but then he was just so valuable that the company just promoted him to head of growth he he told me that he gets dozens of DMs every week from other startups that are like "Can I hire you to be my head of growth and blow up my startup on social media?
" And the problem is there's just there's only one of him right there's like not there's there's not like a hundred Daniels but the thing is there are 100 Daniels like if you go through his following list I bet you could find tons of creators that are just doing their own thing but they could be making like consistent money by working with clients and it's at zero risk to their reputation because like a lot of creators have a lot of hesitation around doing brand deals on their own account but if you tell them hey you can be ahead of growth at the startup and just grow this account that's zero that's zero reputational risk like no one's going to call them a sellout because they're doing it on a a different account to a different audience but they're just taking their raw skills and applying it to something that has business application so I think there's an opportunity for a headhunting agency but it's almost like an exact level headhunting agency because you're finding like a head of growth so you find an influencer and tell them like "Hey do you have like do you want to work for a cool startup like you we'll pay you like I don't know exactly what the the range would be but several thousand a month and you could take a portion of that in order to like manage the process and kind of guide the strategy there's so many creators out there that want consistency of income if you can offer them a really good career opportunity working at a cool startup the startup would pay you a lot of money for that yeah it's a really good idea and even just hearing you share some of these examples like one the some of the Tik Tok viral ones were faceless like it doesn't even create you don't even need the creator then two for the rest of these just how given the attention is the asset here and so these are just different ways to get that attention at scale and once see that in different ways I think that fundamentally will change how marketing is done in the future where oh well I could go to this for a company maybe you do that at first through an agency model and you dial in the SOPs and you get some good cash flow and then from there you get to cherrypick what is the next viral trend that you could create your own SAS or or or software app i guess that's kind of exactly what you're doing right yeah yeah pretty much yeah i'm always looking out for how do we take a tactic from one industry and then take it to a different industry so the same thing with Tabs Chocolate you know they did the Tik Tok strategy for e-commerce but then he took it to apps so like you could do the same thing but for apps like for example I've seen this app it's called Cheater Buster and basically you like put in the name of your significant other and their location and then you can see like do they have an active Tinder profile and then like it just like the the concept itself you know is very naturally viral but the thing is these are not like the the mo the majority of the videos that go viral are not the company itself posting it's just clipping so they hire these street interviewers to get hours and hours of really good reactions and footage of people like actually using the product live and then they have this affiliate program where the the clippers very similar to how they do it in the music industry they have all these clippers like making these clips getting paid out CPM and then the videos drive all this attention to the website and then they make money with their I think they charge like hard payw wall for uh finding the like performing the search so if you go to like YouTube and you go like Kaisenat like shorts he's the biggest Twitch streamer you go to um channel there's like so many Kaisenat like clipping accounts and none of these are actually Kaisenat they're just they're just kids like posting clips like these kids are organized in Discord servers and it's it's a really good it's a really good agency business so like here's an example of uh the clipping server so I I have some of these saved if you look at some of these clipping servers like this one for example is so real quick what's happening is you're saying someone like Kai or somebody like Drke or a musician they're saying we're willing to pay on a CPM basis for any content that features you know this song or this this person and then the and so what you're saying is there's a a corner of the internet that most people have not seen but you're You're in a lot of these and this is where this h these transactions happen exactly yeah it's like all your all your favorite big like biggest artists like Drke like uses this um Kaisenat uses this like any new song i just joined the Lizo one today um she has a new song coming out so there's this um uh Lizo deal now that is Let's see how much are they paying they're paying $350 per million views uh three 3500 max per creator so if if you're like a teenager and you just want to make clips and include Lizo's song in it you can earn like $3,000 just like posting clips on on short form video um and you have to source the clips like from the live stream and you have to use the newest song the owner of this Discord server probably gets a very nice margin because like imag like think about three $350 per million views that's like 30 cent 35 cent CPM and if you think about Lizo's team they're probably willing to pay so much more than that so I think it it's just it's just an imbalance in demand versus supply like there's so much demand for this clipping and like going viral on on short form video but there's just not enough agencies that are able to meet the demand this is crazy you're sort of blowing my mind shown me some of these things but it it it also makes so much sense right and in a small part of me hates that this is like this is our society today i think probably a larger part of me sees just so much opportunity to apply this in different ways whether it's a marketing agency owner or just ideas for your own software we've talked about outsourcing it but also like it's easier today to create your own software than it has ever been you also just have really good frameworks and ways to take things that seemingly can't go viral and make them go viral i think you had like you did a Twitter thread on that once can you talk about how you could just make things viral and whether that's random examples or maybe you could use AppSumo as an example to talk through ideas like what like what would you advise us to do so it's just kind of about knowing the current content trends people talk about Chad GPT like I just kind of knew that like oh people talk about Chad GPT therapy that that's a thing that people talk about on TikTok so if you use the same hook like "Hey I use Chad GPT for therapy. " You could talk about that for 20 seconds and then say like "Oh but by the way I also use this other app. " Like it's a little bit better you know after you've retained the viewer for like 20 seconds right you've seen that on Tik Tok and you're like "Oh this is kind of like this you could do a similar thing.
" Any any maybe less obvious ones that you you've seen or that you've you've ideiated on something like this like this is practice flirting app i don't know this random guy just like commented and he's like "Oh I have a an app that helps you practice flirting. " I was like "hm practicing flirting like it kind of is similar to practicing a new language in a way. " So I thought of this other channel Practicod where it's an app that lets you talk to this AI like video thing like AI person in another language in order to like practice language learning by immersion and it's called Practica and they they do really well just by posting straight up product demo of a guy talking to the AI and it's just kind of like weird uncanny valley but with this app you could do the same exact content style if you just have that idea of like oh like what other niche could you be taking content ideas from and then applying it to your own niche you know that's the approach that I take like even if you go back to the color analysis example Like I would go on spy talk and search beauty just like think of keywords so if you think about like these creators and like what kind of what kind of content could they create for an app like this color analysis app you say beauty makeup get ready with me K beauty is like becoming a big thing and then you could like find you know find the video trends see what the hooks are analyze the hook turn that into like video scripts that you give to your creators if if all your stuff today went away and you were going to figure out a way just to get make 10K a month what what would you do that would be the the highest probability of doing that in the quickest amount of time i think influencer search is just the most obvious lowhanging fruit that does not necessarily have the biggest retention because once you find the influencers you get paid once and then that's it but it's such easy cash like there's so many businesses that want to find influencers and they don't know how and there's just so many platforms to do it like we talked about the Tik Tok shop affiliate center going on LinkedIn finding college students there's also just so many other tools like I'll give you three tools right now you could start an agency today with any of these three tools there's one called creator contacts.
io this costs like $200 I think there's top yappers. com is also an influencer database and you just it's a bunch of scraped creators you just cold email them or cold DM them ask them "Hey do you want to make do you want to make videos for this brand we'll pay you. " And then you just take a cut you could go to creatorhunter.
io basically the same thing but you know these SAS tools exist but there's just not a lot of agencies that are that are doing it a lot of brands are trying to do it themselves but they're just too busy so that's the angle you just say "Hey we'll save you a bunch of time like combing through these applications and creators and knowing what to look for like do these people actually have good content or not? " And then and then charge that as a service like you can you can charge like I said like the 3K retainer just one time like contingency and just get like three of like three of those a month and that's like 9K 10k yeah and you also like build out not only your ability to spot top talent and what's working but then you just have those influencers that you work with and maybe you focus on a specific niche and then you could you know make that same introduction but to a different brand same same pool of influencers right totally yeah like the talent supply is is such a huge moat once you have a big rolodex of people then you can then eventually like you can see which ones like the bigger play is actually talent agency like once you see the brand deals that they get and they actually perform well for the brands you can follow up and ask them hey how did it go if it went well you can be like hey I'll just pay you on retainer and then take a cut of your of your sales and that's like the bigger play like once you build up a really big rolodex but in the beginning you can just charge the brand side like a UK just to connect them with the influencers yeah yeah dude this has been awesome joseph any other last things that I love how you know there's so many tools and and resources any other last things that you would leave the the viewer with in order to have them go out and and and do some of this stuff for themselves yeah I got a I got a shill so please just like the free CTA is just follow my Twitter and also follow this list so if you want to like check out like what app founders are talking about just go to this Twitter list that I created it's called viral app founders and this is just a list of like a bunch of app founders that are trying to go viral on TikTok so they're all like experiencing these pain points and a lot of them are in consumer club and viral app founders group it's just this is a really good list to just like scroll through if you're on Twitter and then I run consumer club so this is a community of app founders if you want to start an app yourself you come from the e-commerce space or affiliate space want to start an app there's a lot of like postexit people who join consumer club and you know they add a lot of value if you are completely brand new to apps and you can go to viral app founders and it's a lot more like content based so we just like go through step by step like how to how to hire an Upwork dev for 1.
