I don't stay stuck and I don't stay there I can tell that I'm almost like no you got to get over that really fast don't blame people for stuff don't stay stuck get on with it get out of bed put one foot in front of the other start doing dishes you'll start feeling better I promise the best-selling author and host the number one Health and Wellness podcast on purpose with Jay Shetty Jay I think you were one of the like Very first people who graced us with your presence on our show you know like we
were such a new show and nobody wanted to talk it was the height of the pandemic people really didn't know what to say I get it I didn't know what to say I was like I feel like ironically isn't the world telling us to be quiet and listen and I have to go find my voice right now I know it feels very cute but you were kind enough And I you know I get it it's like I think there was probably like what is this show and why would we want to talk about stuff you
know right now um but there was also such a need for community at that time but I just thank you for coming on so early and daring to come on something that we ourselves were literally in establishment mode we were trying to set it up for success in the way that like we wanted it to be something we loved and believed in but Everything was going to have to be done differently yeah definitely you know in 2019 when we were making the show was not going to be that show but what did we keep what
did we change how do we pivot how do we move forward so thank you because oh no it makes a difference when people see you coming on the show then they think oh that's safe maybe I'll try that well no I mean thank you no I was actually so grateful that you thought of me and invited me and the Team reached out to me I was so looking forward to connecting with you I think you just have such a positive presence in everything you do and your energy ready it's when I met you backstage I
was telling my team because Paul was here with me last time when we came in person Helena wasn't and I was saying to them backstage I was like that interaction we had had the lights been on Backstage I would have shared it because it's such a special interaction Like the energy you greeted me with and the warmth that you had for me I was just like wow I feel like I'm meeting a long-lost friend and it was just such a special moment and no one got to see that it was totally behind cameras but I
wanted people to know because that's who you are and that's how you appear to everyone and approach everyone whether you go backstage on camera off camera wherever you are and so I saw that before and I'm so grateful I got to see In person I think it's also good to be wary of people who are different in different places and rooms you know that was always something like growing up in the job that I did um there was a lot of performative uh people um who were different in different rooms and then there were people
who were attitudinally um different in different rooms and it was like a very interesting juggling act To see like why is this person different now here as opposed to in the other room where they oh they were performing they were doing a job that's why they're different why is this person a little different here or there oh it's because of the person oh that's interesting so they don't treat everybody the same noted where are you on where are you relaxed where are you utterly yourself where it so human behavior was always Like so fascinating for
me because I was trying to gauge like what kind of human do I want to be so I was always looking at everybody's you know actions to sort of put on the sifter um of like what do I want to keep and what do I want to just go away and fall to the bottom how early do you think you started to do that because I think that that's a skill that we develop over time and I like what you said that it's not as simplistic as saying oh well that's a Bad person it's like
no that's their job they're performing they're working and then sometimes it's the person sometimes it's the profession but how early did you start noticing and observing very early my mom also was like I started working 11 months old but I I remember my mom was part of this 11 months oh yeah in a diaper not a euphemism and literally I started my job in a diaper It was a commercial and people thought that like E.T was maybe my first job but It wasn't by a long shot I had done a lot of TV films a
lot of commercials and even a feature film so I felt comfortable at that point when I went into ET so I'm I feel lucky that I was blessed that I wasn't like a quivering lamb in the field like I was always very emboldened as a kid I I had so much like Moxie I feel like I'm probably a lot more shy respectful and cautious now as an adult when I was a kid I was so Fearless Um but I remember my mom was a part of like this theater group at uh the Lee Strasbourg Institute
who's a very famous acting teacher he taught Paul Newman and Marilyn Monroe and Al Pacino they were all a part of like his you know I wouldn't even know how to put it but group um and she was doing a play there and I remember like this one woman who would go in the back every night before her play and she would just lay on this Stage in a quiet room and like beat her chest and cry out so primal and that was such an interesting thing to witness as a kid I was like oh
that's how she does it like that's how she gets herself to be emotional and cry um so I was always clocking like whether it was how to do this job or really I was hyper aware ever since I can remember about how people treated each other a lot of cliches is like oh if someone's like rude to a waiter like That was me as an like infant I was so upset and put off by people who weren't nice to everyone um and there were plenty of people in the job that I was in that were
a little coddled and you know but then I also saw people who you thought wouldn't be shy because they were a performer but they were um so I was like well don't hold that against them that's just their real personality like I'm thinking I'm gonna Get this big flamboyant and gregarious you know loud person and they're not on right now they're turned off and who they are is actually this very gentle quiet Soul oh you're the world's greatest comedian but you're kind of dark and Moody okay that wasn't what I was expecting nor is it
what I want but I have to accept that's who you are yeah okay interesting so you're observing everybody so you can make fun of it all but if you let people in you won't be Able to you keep a guard up on purpose understood so I guess I was just always trying to figure out like why people did what they did but I still to this day like cruelty arrogance rudeness short-temperedness is just I don't have time for it and even worse if I am ever guilty of those things oh my God I take myself
to task probably worse than I would anyone else yeah that's it's hard isn't it you've reminded me of when I was in the monastery there was one monk Who was known for being pretty negative and being that way so he had this reputation where he would always be negative he'd be rude to people he'd be you know he had what you're kind of describing like there was a bit of arrogance there was a bit of Bravada there was a bit of rudeness uh lack of sensitivity everything that you're mentioning and it's really interesting because I
used to really annoy me because I kind of have a similar trade To you where I don't appreciate someone treating anyone uh special or not special or good or bad yeah and and I think it's a hard thing to manage when you're a busy individual so I'm getting getting in your sense it's very difficult so I would often complain about him because he was always criticizing complaining and comparing and so I would often complain about him to the other monks I'd be like this guy like you know he's just always doing This what's this Monk's
deal literally can you imagine like that's literally my question I know and it was really interesting because there were two sides to this and I want to hear your thoughts to this one thing one of the monks said to me he looked he looked at me and he said what don't you like about this individual and I said he's always comparing complaining and criticizing and he said to me what are you doing Right now I said I'm comparing companies and there's like this like moment of like I had become who I was Madison how did
you stop yourself is my question because you're very mindful you've always I've seen you the few moments I've spent with you or whether we've messaged it's always been wonderful how did you stop yourself from letting that pain get so make you cold or make you harsh to that person also I think it Made me more kind and empathetic and and you know I also grew up in a job that's like heavy on Gossip or can be and rumor and hearsay and stuff and I found that in my life everybody loves an interesting story I mean
where all of our ears perk up when we're like think we're gonna hear something a little you know salacious a little crazy a little something it's something to kind of Marvel at but I realized that I I am not a gossiper you know like I'm more I'll Keep your secrets um and it was sort of the same thing I've corrupt um around a lot of people who also kind of talk trash about people and I was like I do not want to be around that nor be that person so it also made me like gravitate
towards people who didn't do that um and it's funny you said because you know we get busy and we have a lot of responsibilities so I can get sort of Intense or it's seemingly short-tempered because I'm tired and I'm trying to kind of barrel through things like me too you do absolutely yeah for sure okay that is so refreshing to hear 100 like I asked my wife because I was gonna have my wife on the show yeah I know I love your wife so much I mean you two were put on this planet like you
are Freud's Imago Theory like two people who look alike are drawn to each other in a mirror-like sort of look in the water you know and see your Own reflection and not based in narcissism it's based in like a familiarity no it really it's a beautiful Theory um and no so in those moments I I'm tired I'm exhausted I seem a little Curt a little short-tempered a little intense I I would say 99.9 percent of the time I never think I'm right for being that way and I will find myself maybe justifying here or there
and even as I'm doing it I'm like you are so full of Crap right now I really hold myself so critically accountable for wanting to go okay well then you can't take this water back and put it in the bottle it spilled all over the floor so how about next time try to remember something about this that can be like a trigger so that you can handle it differently I think so much of my adult life is becoming about the Mastery of reaction knowing it's beautiful and the only thing I can control I cannot Control
and I work really deeply with this therapist who I I I just I respect um he's honestly one of the smartest individuals I've ever met wow like I'm talking like one hand like a true voice and he quit me at one point like that's how you know High Road this human being is he doesn't deal in toxicity if you're not getting better he's not feeding off of that and thinking well this person's gonna stay with me for many years he's like our work cannot not actually occur Here so I'm going to step away and I
was like God you're good I love you even more I respect you so much and I fought to break a cycle and a pattern that he just after eight years was like I I can't do this anymore and I it was drinking and I when I was about two years and I'm I'm not sober I don't work a program I have I'll call in my house like I party with my friends you know I so I'm not when I say I don't drink alcohol it's just like a one-lane choice Of realizing something that didn't work
for me I thought I would Master my whole life I don't I can't so after I had stopped for about two years because drinking was like a symptom of many problems but it was the thing that was not allowing me to get to those next places I asked him will you please uh reconsider taking me back I've put in two years I'm not stopping I'm feeling really good um this isn't for anyone else it's not For you it's for me I know that's what you've always wanted it if you do things for other people it's
so dangerous they can just take it away it's a burden it's you know there's no ownership in doing things for other people when it comes to that really crucial work um because you I love doing things for other people it's just a matter of and I think I'm a total codependent like with my kids like yeah they're my whole Source of Life joy happiness and you Know motivation so be it I'm a codependent who cares like but I'm also my own individual they're their own individuals and we've got to take care of our side of
the street so I asked could we go back to working together and uh we did and now we're doing the best work we've done in 10 years and a lot of the work I do with Barry now so much of this word comes up which is inner and that's not something even though I Think I was really in touch with spirituality when I was a teenager it was so much a part of like my salvation and raising myself and getting emancipated at 14 and living on my own and being an adult my whole life and
not having any semblance of like what society says kids are supposed to do with like go to bed on time go to school like eat a balanced meal all that stuff like I just didn't have that in my universe Um but I love when Barry uses the word inner this Rich inner life I'm trying to build that is the place in which I can tap into reaction um processing control all of those things it's like there's really kind of only one place that that truly can take place and it's the inner world and I have
spent my life being an extrovert and going outwards and and that can be being a love junkie or being someone who loves to be playful and call it perform Or just put myself out there or affection or jokes and humor or my love of human beings like it's all out out out and this is the first time that I feel like I'm really much more excited and ready to do this inner work and it's cool because it is it is the place where you can do so much more because a lot of those things you
want to do with the outside world are not really possible or not really attainable like control Like you know changing the way things are or someone out there or a situation or the World At Large these things are not controllable but inside your world inside your inner self there's much to be done yeah but it sounds like with this over analyzing reflective self Mastery work that you're doing it sounds like at the same time is that there's also a sense of self-forgiveness to be able to move on especially from Knowing that as a child a
you wouldn't have known about the inner in that depth you wouldn't have had the tools you were exposed to things as a child that 99 of children wouldn't be exposed to so they've also seems to be a sense of forgiveness for today and also forgiveness for that time is that how did you see that you know it's funny because I do think a lot of kids go through just crazy stuff absolutely yeah when I was in an institution for two Years that my mom put me in it was it was an adult word too but
it was also a kid Ward so all these other kids I was in with I was like well they're going through it too whatever their roads you know took them to you know self-destruction or abuse of a substance or hurting themselves or being out of control to the point where their parents didn't know what to do with them um a lot of that is usually cries for help and probably not their fault always Yes of course um but I was like well I guess I'm not alone and you know trying to you know I'm I'm
not the only one who are experiencing what we see as extraordinary circumstances especially at a young age they're heightened and they seem Wilder to adults you're 14 or 13 and you're doing these things like oh if you were in your 20s I guess that'd be more normal wow that's such a good point yeah I've never Thought about it like that yeah and then I think about kids who are you know challenged economically or are trying to get you know in somewhere or they have to take care of their families or their latchkey kids or they're
trying to get into this country or they're you know doing things that like again once again we're saying oh this is not what children are supposed to do so I'm like convinced that I'm one of many that just kind of had stuff to deal with that we Wish ideally kids didn't have to deal with but a lot of them are yes I just was never taught like what forgiveness was of myself but I've learned along the way far ahead of self-forgiveness because this is a very New Concept for me so it's Super Fresh it's like
an open wound and it is not sewed up shut yet by any means I need stitches and some isopropyl like I'm working on it but I always was forgiving of other people I didn't I Grew up in a very unjudgmental landscape you know like For Better or Worse Hollywood is real open-minded it's real liberal and I don't mean politically I just mean like artistic people are kind of like a Live and Let Live Group which is super cool and that was great growing up I was like oh so we can just kind of let people
be oh okay like cool um they're not wrong for being that way they're just eccentric or that's their lifestyle choice or that's their Orientation or whatever it was great to grow up that way I I was always forgiving of other people and like open-minded for like whoever they are I realized later in life that it turns out that I thought forgiveness was a gift to someone else you forgiving them was giving them a gift I suppose it is I never knew that there is a an irony of all ironies of that you are finally Liberated
and you can't forgive to get to The Liberation because it's fake and you don't get the reward you have to truly literally go yes I with every part of me authentically and without wanting anything in return I'm not even thinking about myself I just forgive I forgive you I forgive this then all of a sudden you're like oh no and now I feel really good how weird but if I've ever tried to forgive something to feel better it doesn't work yeah it doesn't work no It's not a technique it's not a button yeah no it's
not a technique it's this true I also found the ultimate form of Liberation is change when you like stopping drinking from me and again not sober like don't that's not it yeah I just don't drink it's the only thing that's you would that's my lifestyle choice I was so held back by this one thing my entire life that I swore I would master that why wouldn't I be convinced of that I'm I'm Not capable of change because I couldn't change it so I'm just a failure in my inner voice and narrative my only evidence in
front of me is you're not capable of change because you haven't changed this thing and then once I did it was like finally I believe that I'm capable of change and that's you know these things are symptoms they're not the only problem you can't like stop something that isn't working for you and everything else falls into place there's A lot of work around it that has to be done and Barry's Point wasn't like if you stop drinking all your problems are going to go away he's like we just can't get to the work because this
shame and guilt and like pattern is just is going to prevent us from getting to the next level so I'm out and I was just like God I love this so much and I knew he was right yeah your therapist quitting on you is pretty that's pretty inspiring I know because most therapists are like oh You're still broken fantastic I'll see you next week I'm I still have a job and so I think if you're seeking guidance wisdom therapy spiritual leadership whatever you are seeking out in this world if you sense that person continues to
feed and not help you grow and it's fine with you staying in the same place I don't think that's a good sign yeah but I love that emphasis you're placing that it wasn't ever about the external change It wasn't just about oh if you stop drinking alcohol then all your problems are solved it was going on this inner Journey for you and I I wonder when you're doing this you've brought up two really important things you brought up shame and guilt and I think shame and guilt deep down whether you meet someone who seems confident
or whether you meet someone who's insecure shame and guilt are right there right even when someone Feels confident or is is acting confident often there's a shame and guilt of some part of them they're trying to hide and if someone's feeling insecure it's because they shame and guilt themselves walk us through a bit about how those two were these bad friends of yours for a while and then you were eventually able to let them go I'm just letting them go especially we stopped with my mom um you know I just I think most people Idealize
this sort of nuclear family and I just have felt pain and guilt and shame my whole life that that wasn't our story all right our life experience um it hurts me to know that like there is pain there for her for me it just destroys me so I'm I'm working on that um because I'm like I'm 47 I can't I don't mean to be morbid but I don't want to die carrying this with me like I I will shift this it's time it's been long Enough yeah I put enough time in so I'm working on
that with Barry right now and I'm making some really good strides and it's really hard you know I think these things are not easy I I felt a lot of guilt and shame around drinking because like a lot of my sort of least desirable experiences had probably something to do with me being drunk you know so I'm like amazing that you would keep doing something that like doesn't Serve you um I felt pain and guilt and shame every time I did feel like I acted in a way that wasn't as gracious and patient as I
wish I could always be um these are really go-to overly available emotions that I am just like I can't be nearing 50 and still function like this so like you know it's like kicking out bad roommates you're just like guess what you are a sloppy horrible person You have bad energy you're negative you're messy and like I can't live with you anymore like I want to get my own place and keep it tidy and Jesus like how have I managed to put up with this for so long yeah it's like that's how I feel inside
my body and shame and guilt are roommates I've had my whole life that I totally resent and like wish I could just give an eviction notice too and I'm starting to like grow a pair and actually really take charge because I Think I know like I'm running out of time like we don't live forever and nobody wants to think about death or dying but it's an inevitability that we all share in common and we really don't even know actually when it's coming so there's a part of me that's just like I can't do this anymore
I'm fatigued I'm exhausted I'm desperate to know what the other side of this feels like you know we used to love 45 records and always the Popular hit song was on the a side and then we would play the B-side and be like this song's actually awesome yeah I'm like what is the B side of my life what is the life that isn't so corroded with self-loathing guilt shame beating up on myself all the time people are like you seem so positive I'm like you have no idea what I'm dealing with on the inside it's
so hard and heavy some days um but one thing that's I do I'm I am Glad is I don't stay stuck and I don't stay yeah I can tell that I get I can hear that in what you're saying and how you're saying it I'm almost like no you got to get over that really fast don't blame people for stuff don't stay stuck get on with it get out of bed put one foot in front of the other start doing dishes you'll start feeling better I promise like cleaning is a very spiritual act and put
on a song and like all of a sudden you'll be shaking your Butt and like moving your body or jump in the rain yeah the endorphins will start to come so I've had these fantasies of being Greta Garbo in my bed and my friends tending to my bedside or talking on the side on the phone like oh we're really worried about her you know it just doesn't happen because it's just like I I just am like oh God like except for funny enough with my drinking my friends did do that they were like we gotta
we gotta get in there and be Honest with her and that's true friends friends who kick your butt and hold up mirrors to you or tell you when they don't like what they see or want you to see your reflection and feel good about it that's true friendship I'm all in for tough love so I I've been you know when when I was in the institution when I was 13 they assigned me a therapist Dr George Blair I'll never forget and they had these groups a couple nights a week where they would invite All the
families and and they would put someone in the circle and they would talk to their family very openly about what led to this crazy place we were all in and it wasn't like a rehabilitation center it was a full-blown like institution it was very hardcore it was much more One Flew of the Cuckoo's Nest it wasn't like promises and Malibu this was like real deal North Valley like two years of you're locked in there this is not a place you're allowed to leave if You try to leave they will deal with you accordingly and it's
not pretty so but what they would do is they would have these families sit around in a circle and they would encourage um there was no Force but it was sort of you know it was mandatory they would sit that person down and they would sit them across from their family and then all the families would sit around and they would talk honestly about what led to them being here what Was missing what wasn't working with their family there was sort of like you know non-aggressive confrontation about like you know the parents were just as
accountable as the kids um it was incredible wow and it it shaped my life forever it wasn't like you know we're all performers and we put it all out there like that wasn't what did it yeah I am witnessing when you don't sweep things under the carpet when you do not let them rot and start to Stink when you are willing to be brave and put it out there and discuss it out in the open it wasn't even in front of others it was just to find your voice and talk directly to that person I
forever formed me it's like that was such an important life Journey that would color my path for the rest of my life and weirdly when I found out this show might actually happen in 2019 I was like not only of someone who's been sitting on the other Side of an interview chair my whole life and you kind of get fatigue on those same questions like I was like what if this could weirdly be a little like that group night that we would have a couple times a week where we just sit in some chairs in
a group of people and talk and we keep it real and a lot of it was really funny people laughed it was heart-wrenching it was emotional it was humorous it was insightful it was raw and I think I'm really having an aha Moment or an epiphany right now because I'm like am I running this show the way we did in those rooms like it just was really cool to find out that talking it out and being brave to tell your truths was a good thing those sound like some of the most special skills and tools
that every one of us could use so early on and the fact that you feel you're still using them after all this Time is pretty remarkable I have not associated the two until this moment but I wasn't necessarily getting it from my job growing up that wasn't as much as it was a like have all your emotions available it was very structured in the work um and it was very spontaneous and creative and free but it was for a purpose and if anything you were kind of pretending to be a different person but Like pulling
on your real emotions I had never experienced up until that point anything like it and I've definitely conducted myself my whole life since I got out of there as if I still go to those group nights like I want to put it out there I wanna I wanna encourage other people to not sit on things but discuss it um be bold um and not afraid of what other people are thinking and feeling when they're Digesting your sort of deepest stuff letting out Secrets can be really liberating and I still feel like I have plenty and
I'm just now like willing to even look at some like secrets and and being afraid of what people are going to think is is not good it's not good at all what do you think was what made it safe because I feel like that's what it is we think that environments need to be loving or they need to be caring but really it's a sense of safety That we're looking for what made it feel safe the truth the truth and the honesty and the lack of judgment it that's what made it safe that people weren't
gonna nobody alienated each other no one treated each other less than we went on business as usual we felt like we knew each other better we were in an environment where people literally like kind of if you wanted to talk about it you could if you didn't you didn't have To but like nobody made each other feel bad so I think truth and not feeling judged or is is what least leads to safety um one of the things that Barry talked to me about and I'll apply it to this also is if you're if you're
not feeling safe how can you make yourself feel safe if if you're not getting that from others how do you make it okay for you and I went on a date with this guy I thought it was the best date I mean it Really was it was like so good and I we made a plan for that weekend and we were texting back and forth and it was so cute and I was like and I really liked him I was like what a nice guy I was attracted to him I loved his job because he
was you know um in the news business and like I love news and I'm like oh my God this is so cool I never heard from him again like I guess that's what you call getting ghosted I was like whoa that is so oh Wow that's so weird um okay and I was talking to Barry and there's this sex in the city where this boyfriend of hers named Jack Berger breaks up with her on a Post-It note and it became this pop culture phenomenon and the Post-it note reads I'm sorry I can't don't hate me
now we all took that and ran with that the line was I this cannot be the day I get broken up with on a Post-It so they have this whole crazy adventure but all of like pop Culture and Society was like this is the worst thing ever I'm like Barry that is the most giving thing that I could ever ask for in modern society being a single girl I swear to God that's I'm sorry okay great I can't thank you now I know where you're at I know to move on this is so informative that
I appreciate the gracefulness and the graciousness of you like just telling me there's no there there and Don't hate me okay I get it you're being self-effacing you know this is maybe not Kosher but that's okay because it's your truth you cannot be we can't be mad at people because they're not what we want them to be and I was like I just wish I could get that Jack Burger Post-It note Barry and he goes well you can write it to yourself yes and I literally was like Barry you just took out all the frustration
anxiety uncertainty Unfinished business lack of control helplessness I feel I feel good I feel empowered I feel like when I got on a bullhorn and shared this wisdom maybe this is it's like oh my God it was the biggest gift I could have gotten so I think we can apply that to a lot of things it's like I'm not feeling safe right now because I just told my truth okay then maybe you can tell yourself why it was a good thing why you are safe that there Will not be consequences that are unsurvivable that come
out of this scenario and help yourself off the ledge by giving and fulfilling for yourself what we normally just tend to automatically look outward and to others for I think what you just said right now is not only great for someone who's receiving that type of note but it's also important for someone who often postpones that note so we know so many people that are in a Relationship that don't want to be in it but they don't want to be seen as the bad person so they'll let it stay on for another six months another
12 months another 18 months and those people are in a prison correct they're in horrible jail that they have put themselves in by not dealing with that I have a question for you yeah okay how do you tell people to receive love I think I'm really good at giving it I'm great At giving it to my daughters and to my friends but I've noticed how much of like my history with the Romantic space I am so stuck and I'm the person who doesn't want to be stuck and I don't care necessarily what others do or
what happens I want to know what work I could do to take my walls down believe and trust Because I am really trying to figure that out right now I've sort of told myself I'm okay I'm fine I'm lucky I have two kids so I if it comes to and I have these amazing friends and I have these beautiful co-workers my cup really runneth over to the point where like I don't feel like I need love I I'm I'm abundant I swear to God I'm still scared or nervous or I don't have any Information that
shows me that that's a safe space so how do I do that I want to give you some tissues no pressure well my first answer is going to be I have two two things one thing was what would Barry say Barry can we call you in and like dial you in right now uh I want to meet you but no genuinely like what would he say I think obviously I'm sure he's shared Some beautiful wisdom and insight with you a few things come to mind the first thing is I think that we've placed romantic love
and I'm probably people may not agree with this but I just want everyone to sit with this for a second and I really do believe that this is something you will appreciate you'll be able to receive I really do believe that and if anyone else doesn't please sleep on it please think about it I really do Believe that we have placed romantic love on the pedestal and the number one position Podium of love and so since we were born and raised we've been told that finding the one is the ultimate expression and experience of love
and what's really fascinating is that if you look at any of the wisdom Traditions they don't feel that way all the wisdom Traditions would suggest that the love that you have for your Co-workers your friends your family their stranger on the street the person driving the car the person that you just bumped into at the grocery store at the coffee shop like the love that you can embody and experience and share with that person and receive from that person that love that you can share with anyone and everyone you meet that is actually the ultimate
expression of love and so what you just said that you're great at Giving love to everyone you have this beautiful Full Cup around you but it's the wiring that's been put into our minds that without this we are incomplete unfulfilled and undeserving and so I'm not saying that as a way of saying to people you don't need to find someone to love I'm just saying that don't ever let that be it uh there's there's so much more to what love truly is and so we've got to change our Order of what's love you know you
look at the wisdom traditions and they'll say the closest thing to unconditional love is a mother's love for her child yeah like that is like the closest thing to real unconditional love like start talking about a love between two people who romantically got involved like that's beautiful I'm not saying it's not beautiful I'm just saying it's not it I I think it's okay first of all your answer is exactly what I was meant to Hear because they do feel that pressure like it's funny how I've been single for almost seven years and it's been some
of the happiest years of my life I feel so fulfilled that I'm almost like my walls are about fear of someone coming in and like tearing up the joint you know like I don't know if I'm that's ready for someone to rock the boat of the goodness of the balance of the life I've ended up Creating with my daughters my friends my co-workers when it didn't work out with their dad that was a a thing that took me many years to recover from because I so wanted the nuclear family it turns out we are literally
having the next best thing or maybe even the plan that was in place all along that we have we're so close I love his wife so much my children and I literally our stepmother Ali I call her our stepmother you know like I love that she is the Greatest his mom and dad are Grammy and Poppy I'm so close to them his sister is one of my best friends my children's aunt and the mother of our three silly cousins like I never dreamed I'd have this big and beautiful of family there's just not a legal
marriage there but there's every single thing else there and since that stopped I've just been okay and I think it is a lot of societal pressure and the reason I got so emotional asking you is because You're a monk and probably I'd set yourself up for the idea that you might not experience that and I have probably given myself now and you have a beautiful marriage um I I have probably told myself a narrative of you will not have that kind of love but it doesn't mean that I feel any less fulfilled but I'm in
a mindset of oh that particular type of love is not available to you yeah so I asked you of all people because you probably had That narrative in your head yourself at some point yeah definitely I mean that's and I couldn't agree more with you like that needs to be on billboards and like really a a much more common confident understanding of Love Is Love which is the best kind or the most important kind or the one you think you're supposed to have that is not the point and boy I knew I should ask you
and I just got the most satisfactory answer I I've probably never verbalized That answer to anyone else either in in this sort of forum because I I genuinely believed when you asked me that question that you know obviously knowing that all types of Love are available to everyone is an important thing that's that's a separate thing to focus on but I think the hierarchy that we've placed on love is what's distorting our vision of and it follows you forever forever I didn't have a relationship with my dad he left before I was born That that
I accepted that you know but like another woman will be like I'm 45 and not married or this or that and it's like this society allows that to really haunt you in a different way than well when it comes to love and a man my father and I didn't have that but we move forward or maybe it holds us back spiritually or emotionally but not societally yeah you're right we have put that romantic love on a pedestal that seems to like if you don't have that Kind of love it diminishes the other kinds of loves
which can be not only as equally fulfilling and satisfying gosh that I really is well that's society's problem not our problem yeah I know people who love their work but feel incomplete without that I know people who love their children but feeling complete without that I know people who have the love of their entire tribe and Community but feeling complete without that because of the way it's been Portrayed and I think that when you also put something on a pedestal like that your expectations of that also go up and that's no reason why that one
causes us the most pain because we also have more expectations of that partner than we do of our kids of our parents of our friends of our family because of that pedestal too I can't agree more out so like I think it's bananas the way that people are so affected by the person they're in a you Know romantic relationship with I always compare it to well you wouldn't be so upset if your friend did that yeah like you'd just be direct and you'd figure it out and you'd fix it and you wouldn't take it so
personally and flip out and have built up all these resentments like friends have a delicate relationship in a garden you still have to tend to but absolutely the reactions are way less heated why is it that the minute sexual stuff Is involved we literally like flip out like what is going on yeah oh my God that's it that I've always been aware of yeah I'm like I really just wish I could have a relationship like I do with my friends because they're not so flipped out all the time yeah like we just deal like we
just do yeah I'm so glad you asked me then thank you for opening up so much but I was wondering that well because I knew that you had probably also believed that this Was not going to be available to you in life and that is the place I've been in for the last seven years but mine was elective and yours was elected yes absolutely so I was like who better to ask this question to yeah than someone who had purposefully shut themselves off to this in service of you know for you it was your spirituality
your religion for me it was for my kids yes but again I'm not codependent on them like I'm so aware of like how much that would screw Everything up them me all of it but they do inspire me to be my best self no one's come along no romantic partner no one ever my friends are the closest second but they are the people that have come into my life that have truly encouraged forced and inspired the greatest change I've done in my life yes and I think when it's elective and it's not suppressed or repressed
or it's not done demanded when it's done in that way it can be really really powerful because You get it's almost like if everyone had a period of their life I mean I I often ask this question to people that I work with or clients that I coach and it's that I mean I started dating when I was 14 probably like dating I don't know how old you were when you started dating my first boyfriend was when I was like in the third or fourth grade wow um and he was my first kid no one
would have dated me in the third or fourth grade but that Was it like it ended there it was it it was very puppy love it was very sweet and it was very innocent yeah so I probably had my proper first girlfriend when I was 14 and I often asked people like between your first girlfriend to where you are now your first boyfriend or whatever maybe till now like how many days have you spent single and for most people that answer isn't very long like I know people who could say three weeks maybe six months
maybe nine months like When you look at all life and you start realizing that we haven't really spent much time having the opportunity to seek and experience all the other types of love because we've been chasing this one type of love to fulfill on our needs but it's so I'm so grateful you asked me that question genuinely well and I really am like I'm like I haven't prioritized myself what if I actually made myself my partner absolutely like what if I invested in myself would I've Invested in so many other people yes in the form
of these big beautiful chapter adventurous great romantic Adventures that I've had one of which led to the greatest meaning of my life my kids and I even feel weird saying my because they're their own people but our kids um and it's been really great to prioritize myself and say you know what you have a lot of work to do uh you got to figure out how to be a parent you've got to figure out how to Raise your like inner child that like you know did a lot of work back then but there's some adult
perspective you didn't have so there's new work that needs to be done you need to work on you know maybe you've done the same thing over and over in your life like occupationally speaking like is there other stuff out there or are you happy just doing things over and over again the same way maybe you are but like give yourself the Chance to explore that yeah um and I've had such big life changes and I've been there to support myself rather than again outward towards somebody else I'm really a caretaker and we all imprint so
much of what we're dealing with becomes a very 50 50 thing in a relationship which is a beautiful gift but you are taking in a lot of someone else's perspective and needs and stuff and this has been such a great time for me and something I said to my Fellow co-worker here Jen um earlier today we were something about some great guy came up and she was like Ugh where are all those great guys and she's such a marvelous woman and she's so rad and so awesome and I'm like you know what Striker not only
are you obviously gonna find someone or some people maybe it's one maybe it's chapters I said but you know what I'm gonna be so mad at you and you're gonna be so mad at yourself if you waste This time because it's coming he's coming and you're not gonna get this time back yeah so I always noticed too when I asked people in the audience how many of you guys are married people raise their hands and when I say how many of you are single they all whoop it's like oh that's good oh that's good there's
like there is a celebratory Pride that comes with being single yeah and I hope people hold this dearly that these things for better or Worse don't last yeah you're gonna probably end up with someone and so instead of like boohooing through this time love it like it because one day it might be gone and you'll romanticize looking back how great it was to be in a relationship with yourself absolutely true I love that thank you for coming to my TED Talk that's what you should have said it was brilliant I'd love to do it yeah
well I mean you need to on this on this Exact topic I think it's unbelievable I have one last question for you you said at the beginning of our interview you said that when you were a kid and you were observing people in the industry I was saying observing you and then you started talking about observing others you said I was always looking at people and trying to make sense of who I wanted to be yes today who do you want to be who is it that you look or not even Who as a Person
but who do you want to be the values the characters the qualities the inner that you're speaking about what are those things that you Aspire for today we heard a story about this couple uh we have a section on our show called Drew's news um we had pulled up a story about the couple who was in a hundred years of age I think they've been married for I don't know 80 something years and Um they said when they were asked like can you give a wisdom and their wisdom was when you are getting in a
row or a fight or something like take a time out there today who inspires me because again it does not have to be of the romantic kind but when you see yourself Rising when that Blood starts to boil when you start to like clench and freak and get spun out instead of spewing that reaction and like Linda Blair Exorcist all over the Room I will have such regret for any type of moment that I have like that and I I want to become the master of the person who knows how to excuse themselves walk away
take a deep breath I have breathe written on my wrist in tattoo and I still forget to look at it like after one rich deep breath after one removal of yourself in a situation after one time out after one walk away you are not going to come back usually as spun Out so I think that for me is probably like the goal du jour in my life right now is like Behavior mastery and funny enough as far as the people I follow it's the same people for the last 30 years it's Nan and Chris and
Peter and Brian and Steve it's like Cameron and my oldest friend Mel we celebrate 40 years this year wow I I stick with people because I'm still trying to become like them but we have a hella good time like Along the way but I just am in love with people who I think God darn it yeah when I get to be like you when I can learn to react like you when I can live the way I see you living because they're not not fun they're not not funny and spontaneous and cool and interesting and
have a wild side like you don't have to be boring no definitely not but I think when you're a kid at least I did I thought you probably were if you were An Almighty Person you were probably a crashing bar I wanted to hang out with all like the Ruckus yeah like I wanted to be in the rumpus room with all the like cook-a-doodles just like me but everyone I admire they're just like really cool people too they're fun and loving and and interesting and humorous so it turns out all the people you admire don't
have to be boring they can be everything you want to be of that true thank you so much oh my God opportunity I love you so Much I love you too this was one of the most beautiful human exchanges that I've had it was such a special special memory because it's not interesting because I feel like that's what you do and give to people every day it is but it's I don't know it's different when you really get to hear from the heart and speak from the heart I was going to say it feels so
open-hearted yeah like you and I just like you know my dad used to say about like the body it's just Tupperware man it's just Tupperware that's good and it's like it's true it's like when do you sit down and sort of like unzip your chest and like reveal your organs and your heart and like for all those people who are romanticized that had in the heart also please pay attention to the gut yeah it is for sure and Barry even says like so many ancient wisdoms yes are really about the gut that's it it's all
about the gut the health the Insight the the Instinct you Know the truth the alarm Bells yeah like God pay attention one thing as a mom I've really hooked into in the last like year is telling my girls I want you to pay attention to what feels good or makes you feel good that's fantastic let's go with that but I want you to be as equally heightenedly aware of what doesn't make you feel good absolutely and let's explore that I love that yeah it's so needed it's so needed I'm so glad you raised that about
the guides so Easily missed and I think we're just getting there now well it's not sexy yeah exactly the heart and the head is poetry yeah yeah HH gut yeah trust that because that's your little Compass inside your body I love it if you love this episode you'll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out
