Well, every two weeks Rob Hersav and I catch up on the latest in the capitalist activists view uh where he is in the world. We've had some interesting conversations from interesting places today. Another interesting place, of course, all the actions going on in the United States.
So, where would Rob be? You got to be there somewhere, Rob. Where in the US?
Hi, Alec. Yeah, it's uh what time is it? 4 in the morning in Miami.
Miami. Is that near where Donald Trump's got his Mara Lago? Yes, it is.
Are I flew Cape I flew Cape Town to uh uh Washington DC yesterday and quite a few interesting people on the plane. In fact, uh John Steinhazen was on the flight, went over and said hi. I shook his hand, didn't really get chance to chat because uh wasn't really an appropriate uh place to have a chat, but uh we landed in Dallas and then he stayed in Washington for obvious reasons.
He's part of the um surreal the surreal show and I came down to Miami, but I'm going to Washington on Thursday. What was his demeanor like, Mr Steen Hazen? He's sort of friendly enough to me.
I'm not sure I'm his biggest fan or he's my biggest fan. Um, and I think the reason he's there is he's been dragged in as Minister of Agriculture to tell Donald Trump that there's no genocide and uh to diminish the horror of the farm attacks. And I do think he is there to fly the flag to the GNU and Sirill is the leader of the GNU and John an important cabinet minister.
So, I think uh they're there to try and appease Donald Trump. And I know you're going to ask me, what do I think is going to happen? Well, well, let's just start from the American perspective.
We know pretty much what Steen Hazen's going to say, uh what Sorap is going, well, we're not sure of Silverapa, but you can understand where Stehazen's coming from, especially on the agricultural side. But what do you think the how do you think the Americans if you were sitting in the American camp and uh briefing them? How do you think they'd be reacting?
I think that they're ready to do a Zalinski times 10 on Sirill whether he does that or not. Uh I don't know. But I know Marco Rubio is the attack dog and he is going to come and swing.
That I do know. I've I've heard it from the highest places that Marco Rubio is going to do the job on the ANC on the GNU and uh it isn't going to be pretty. Whether that happens uh publicly in front of the journalists or whether that happens behind the scenes and then gets reported I don't know.
So the actual Donald Trump surmos um on television get together after the meetings will be really be dependent on what happens beforehand. But Marco Rubio is going to be very very tough on these people and and he should be. Well, unpack that for us.
By morning couple. Um, awesome. 4:00 a.
m. Yeah. So, South Africa Donald Trump popped tariffs on everyone in the world and said, "Look, I'm serious.
You're going to get hit with extraordinary tariffs, but I'm giving you 90 days to come and see me and come and see my team and work on a deal. " Well, I mean, it's taken South Africa, you know, more than half that time to get its act together. Um, we've had a failed um ambassador.
Our ambassador was kicked back to touch. Council general, our military attacher have been kicked back to South Africa. America has effectively dumped South Africa out of the G G20 by not turning up and saying they're not going to actually appear in any force.
And the G20 is being held in South Africa. And South Africa is a part of the G20 really just for you know just to just to have an African country involved. South Africa does not deserve to be part of the G20.
And Sor's arrival at uh Washington was met with a a tiny reception. Uh and it's a message to Sor that Donald Trump is not impressed. He knows what's going on.
He's not going to be appeased. He's not going to be lied to. and and I think the uh the message is going to be made very very clear to Sirill John Leola and the team that he's brought over deservedly so because South Africa for the last 1015 years has been poking America in the eye.
It's one of the top countries to vote against America on almost every issue in the United Nations. South Africa has aligned with Russia, China, Iran, Hamas. The whole of Durko has been taken over by Islamists, ANC Islamists.
And what does South Africa expect? That all of a sudden Sirill the dealmaker, which is complete nonsense, spineless Sirill is going to come over and have that chat with Donald and tell him how it really is. And you know, transformation.
The ANC's had 30 years, 30 years in power to transform the country and all they've done is break and steal for their for themselves and all of a sudden now that they have a GNU, they're trying to accelerate transformation. What have they done in the last 30 years? Donald Trump and his administration know only too well.
They know the farmer tax situation. They know what's going on with DEI, BE expropriation without compensation and the international um position of the ANC and Sirill is not going to be able to hide behind the GNU and say this is a democratically elected coalition of center sensible unaligned people. Americans know the truth.
They've had enough. And in in almost all these cases, it's it's a bipartisan issue. The Democrats are as upset with Sirill in the ANC as the Republicans.
So I'm fascin I'm so excited to be in America these this week. So fascinated to see what happens. And I think Sirill and his agency deserve the biggest club known to man.
And I think they deserve it at 10 times what Zilinski got in public. Sirill deserves to be humiliated. But final comment, somebody said to me, a very, very senior Republican said, "If Donald Trump really wants to insult you, he'll keep it brief, polite, and basically ignore you, that's the ultimate diss by Donald Trump.
" So you'll either see him clapping Sirill, which Sirill deserves, or he or you will see him being completely dismissive and let Marco Rubio do the job. Surely though, Ramiposa knows exactly what he's walking into here. He's no fool.
He's uh he's aware that there is not a lot of happiness on the other side of the ocean towards South Africa right now. He hasn't got too many cards to play, but he's got a few. He's got Simon's town.
he's got some uh mineral rights etc. Surely he hasn't gone there to go and be humiliated or I suppose there's two there two options. Let's just we park that for a moment.
But the second option is perhaps if he's not going to make some kind of a deal perhaps he's going to raise his stature amongst his friends in the Middle East and indeed on uh in non-aligned countries elsewhere in the world. Maybe maybe that's his strategy on all of this. Rob, what frames in the Middle East?
It isn't Saudi. It isn't UAE. It isn't Jordan.
It isn't Egypt. It isn't Morocco. He's going to run out of friends.
It's Iran only. Iran has funded the ICJ case, the South African ICJ case against Israel. And if Sirill was had any brains, you say he's smart.
I'd question that. I'd say he's spineless and he's a coward and he panders to the last person who was in his room talking to him. My view is the following.
America is not interested in getting rare earth minerals and um more influence at Simon's town. That's secondary and tertiary. What America wants is real change and that's what we want in South Africa.
Donald Trump's going to say you need to repeal expropriation without compensation. There are 600 American companies invested in South Africa. If I was Donald Trump, I would say to those American companies, you may no longer obey BEE laws.
I'd use the leverage of American companies, particularly the ones that are doing business with the government, and say you American companies will not obey BE laws. In fact, you'll repeal them within your companies. Secondly, the government needs to repeal EWC be and withdraw the ICJ case against Israel.
Those three three things are non-negotiable. If Sirill has any spine, and I doubt he has, he will make a move on those three and agree to Sirill, fine, we're going to get rid of those three and then let's talk about investment. You know, the stick, then the then the carrot.
And the carrot of obviously could include rare earth minerals, Simon'stown and big investment by America in South Africa and a removal of of tariff tariff and and trade related issues. But if you look at it, EWC and BE is a form of a tariff on American companies. So if Sirill has a spark, if Sirill has a brain, he needs to kiss the ring and he needs to do it quickly and he needs to cut loose his communist party buddies, his Casatu buddies, all his hard-left buddies and focus on what's left of the ANC, which is maybe half of that voting population right now.
Let's say there are 40 still putting the IR polls aside. 20% of the of of the of the electorate is probably a centrist Judeo-Christian pro- West agency. And Surl needs to pander to those and kiss the ring for Donald Trump.
And he's got this week to do it. And if he doesn't kiss the ring, what's the consequences for us in South Africa? Sodom and Gomorrah.
So my recommendation to the Trump administration is to bless the Western Cape, bless the Democratic Alliance, and curse the ANC, EFS, and MK. You know, the Zondo Commission, nothing happened. Zondo Commission, there were 2,348 names mentioned, okay?
all with a little line against them of what criminal activity they had pursued, allegedly pursued. But obviously, we know most of that is true. Those are the people, the big ones that should be sanctioned.
They should be put on the Nitsky list. They should have acid freezes. They should be on the SDN list.
Pick the individuals in the ANC, including people like Nedi Pandle that's resigned from her position, who's a full-on Islamist. Pick those people and nail them. put sanctions on them and then back the DA and back the Western Cape and back DA run areas and have tariffs on the rest of South Africa.
Bring the pain. We're not going to change things in South Africa unless Surl and his gangsters realize that America and the West have had enough of their lies. They lie in internationally and then they institute racist socialist policies in South Africa.
That needs to end. So there could be an upside here for parts of South Africa at least in your way of seeing it. Yeah.
I've been saying you know make immediately appoint a special envoy to South Africa an American that is to protect minorities. Okay. All minorities ethnic and cultural.
move the South African and move the American embassy from Ptori to Cape Town. Work with the DA, not the GNU. Work with the G DA and other like-minded people and business people who have been standing up supporting America, supporting the West, putting South Africa first and not the ANC first.
and find your ambassadors, business, political, civic, civic society like free market foundation, Afrey Forum, Sakalika and back those organizations and those people heavily as America and punish the people that have been imposing racist and socialist policies on Salab makes a lot of sense, Rob, but what are the chances of it happening? Higher than 50%. How so?
Let's talk about one other thing if I may. I was so no just before before you do that we'll get to that in a moment but why do you think it's higher than 50%. What's your because you don't just say things you you often know things and then share with us uh the what what comes through the conclusion there.
Why would it be higher than 50%. So the podcast interviews I give like on Biz News or on Truth Report or the articles I write don't come out of my vivid imagination. They come out of conversations with people that matter.
So I have my relationships within the GNU government within South Africa politics and I know the ones I can trust. They also know that what they tell me I will say on a podcast I will say online. So they know they're careful about what they give me but often they give me what I need to tell the truth online and the same applies in America.
So I had a lot of conversations yesterday and I'm going to meet a lot of important people in Washington and those people have told me what is going on behind the scenes. I know what information the Americans do have, but I'm not entirely sure what decision they're going to make on the back of that information. Yeah, it's quite clear uh that they know everything.
There's nothing that that Ramaposa can go and tell them that they don't already know. In fact, they probably know more than him given his blue light brigade um detachment from what's really happening in South Africa and the the fact that the ANC does not pay attention to the polls that they don't agree with and the information the research that we've seen that from social research foundation the IR as as an example but but my question really is when all of this is over tomorrow and whether Sirill gets publicly humiliated as Allah Zalinski or whether it's just short shrift. What does it mean for South Africa after that given all the insights that you have that the relationships that you have that the contacts that you have?
What can we look forward to as either an upside or a downside of this whole exercise? So the upside is that Sirill learns his lesson, take gets the message very clearly, realizes he doesn't have any allies left uh externally. I mean Russia and China are not going to ride to his rescue.
Their relationship with America and what they have on their priority list is way way more important than Sirill and his merry morons of the ANC. Iran is being put into a box very very quickly. I mean in the Chaos Islands right now, America has half its fleet of stealth.
I don't know what their designation is now. Half the stealth bombers are sitting in the Chaos Islands. They can reach Iran and they can put Iran back to five centuries ago in a matter of three or four bombing strikes.
Israel's dying to do it and America's holding them back. Iran will be put into the dark ages if they don't behave. And they are in deep discussions now with Steve Wiskoff, the American team about removing their nuclear capability and never having the ability to have nuclear weapons.
Iran is not going to worry about the ANC. They've done their bit. They've turned part of the ANC into an Islamist front, an Islamist proxy, and Durko is the result of it.
But the Iran is not going to ride to the rescue. They got way bigger problems. The ANC has no more allies.
Okay? So, it's just internal. And you got the crazies of MK and EFF who want to get rid of Sirill.
And you have the ANC disintegrating internally. So, the good news is Sirill is going to have to take America seriously. what Donald Trump wants.
Sirill cannot be the hero and will not be the hero and try and increase his stature tiny though it is to push back on America. That will be the most destructive behavior for South Africa. And it's irrelevant what LMA and John Steel has and they're just there you know not those nodding dogs in the back of a car you know trying to put forward the excuses that there is no genocide.
There is no there are no farmer taxs. It's not going to work. The downside is that you know Donald Trump just says I've had enough and puts punitive tariffs on South Africa as a whole and all of us will suffer terribly.
So I'm hoping there's a middle ground that he'll he'll pick individuals including Sirill by the way and take away Surl's McDonald's franchises. um that there'll be punishments on the bad guys but give South Africa as a whole an opportunity to still you know thrive or thrive within the madness that we are currently living I know you you operate in these I think this is a crucial moment for us and this is it we're not going to fix South Africa internally you know as Elon Musk says demographics don't lie and even though France Kronier says democracy is happening. It's happening at a glacial speed.
Our economy is not going to survive till 2029. The GNU is not going to deliver us 1. 8% economic growth or whatever you not gaguana dreams we're going to get to.
We'll be lower than 1% at this rate and we're going to have serious problems over the next 3 four years. Our economy is melting down thanks to the ANC. There is no hope internally.
We need this external pressure to make the difference and we need the ANC to repeal EWC, remove BE and for America, remove this ICJ case against Israel and Sirill needs to agree to it this week. I know you operate in these circles and so this is a interesting question. We've seen in recent times that Sirill's brother-in-law, Patrice Mutppe, who is fabulously wealthy and has used his money to become uh quite important in in his area of passion, which is football.
We've uh we've seen that he's now been raised as a potential next president of South Africa or certainly the next president of the ANC. Now, that may or may not be complete fiction, but would he had not have a role in all of this given that if anyone's going to lose big uh if the Americans do start nailing uh the ANC patrons and um or the patronage network of the ANC into the ANC, then it's got to be Patrice. If you think Sorl has no spine, I think it's in the family.
Patrice is a smart, generous, compassionate, decent human being. But he doesn't have a great attention span. The fact that he's only focused on football and sport is the kind of dilotant billionaire approach.
He's never really stood up. He's never stood up like most corporate South Africans for the country. and he's a he's a brother-in-law of Suril.
How's he ever going to go against the Communist Party? Guil Paul Mashhatila, he's comfortable being in Los Angeles and attending the Can Film Festival. You want you want him to be the next president?
I mean, if there is a good of the ANC, if there are people that believe in the Judeo-Christian civilization and capitalism and free markets in the ANC, that's Katrice Mut and that's a positive. But just cuz he's a billionaire businessman does not mean he has the spine or the strength to stand up against the evil in this country. But my point is more surely within the family lunch on a Sunday he would have been if only from enlightened self-interest saying to Sirill don't go along this path don't irritate Trump I've got a lot to lose he can wipe out my international assets and I'm really not wanting that to happen so that's where I'm coming from is there not a is there not that pressure as well on South Africa's president to play ball in some regards I doubt it.
I doubt it. Look, Patrice spends most of his time overseas like most of the South Africanborn billionaires. They've had enough.
They just don't see a solution and they're hiding behind business and politics don't mix. They're hiding hiding. How many of the big business people say anything?
You know there are extraordinary overseas South Africans that give money to help move the political the decent political parties forward. They give a lot to civic society and they give a lot to charity. But how many of them actually say any stand up call out the A.
I mean I can't think of any. Can't think of any. And why would Patrice do that?
He's happy. He's rich. He's made it.
Why would he even risk coming in? Wow. and and riding to the rescue.
He could lose it all. He could lose it all. I think he's off a lot he's offshored a lot of his money out like most rich people.
Even worse uh with the Magnitzky act, all of those Russian oligarchs, all of their assets, their dollar assets were nailed, riots and things like that. It's just an interesting point. But something have you read Tony Leon's book yet?
Uh his latest book? And I asked it is a it's it's superb. You know, we get so many terribly bad books in South Africa, but this is a really good one and it takes us into the negotiations between the DA and the ANC, which Tony was one of that party.
I'm actually surprised that he's he's given us so much of those insights. But the there was something very interesting that that in the context of what we're talking about now. the ANC one day uh at a crucial point, I think it was three days before the vote for the president, they didn't pitch to the meeting with a DA.
Didn't pitch at all because they had internal discussions. They had to and then they apologized the next day when they got to that meeting and the reason was they said, "Oh, they had to they had to caucus this internally and get it all done internally. " And that's really my question.
Whatever President Ramaporam decides or brings back from Washington is not necessarily a done deal or certainly Tony Leon's book would suggest that that he's going to have to go back and somehow sell this to a very difficult uh constituency who perhaps don't have the insights into geopolitics that one would have hoped for. So that to me is another little waving flag in in this whole issue. How important is that, Alex?
So true. I mean, DA has a similar problem. You know, you can uh have a discussion with John Steinhaz and he can agree with you, but he can't shake hands because he's got to go back to Fedco or whatever it's called who then FedEx.
Yeah. Who then say, "No, well, this is what you got to do. " So it's very very difficult to have authority um or responsibility without authority and that's exactly what Surl the problem sur has and it's interesting that he made his acting president while he's away Guate the great gu communist I mean what an idiot who said I think it was six weeks ago we don't need America we'll just sell all our minerals to someone else I mean this is someone that doesn't understand business doesn't understand international matters and doesn't really care.
That's Gu, okay, who's Sirill's kind of you're my actctic president. So, you can imagine Sirill's first phone call is to Gu to say this is what Donald Trump wants. Gu is sitting in an armchair, you know, playing video games or whatever he does, not reading.
And um it's never going to happen. It's and the ANC needs to disintegrate and disappear. And Prince Michelle is probably the only guy that I listen to and go, I have hope for South Africa because he says the ANC will be irrelevant in 2029.
So maybe this clap that's coming from Donald Trump is a is it will accelerate the ANC's irrelevance. So what do we look out for, Rob, from the reports that we see from the meeting tomorrow? We we're going to we're going to hear after the fact rather than directly.
You know, there is going to be the U public sur on a in a chair and Donald Trump in a chair and everyone's going to watch that. It's going to be that's going to be absolutely the most exciting live theater. And if Donald Trump is calm, which he is, and he was with Zilinski, Zilinsky in the end triggered triggered Vance and then triggered Trump.
So, it was Zilinsk's fault. Sirill is an appeaser. Okay.
How he deals with problems is appoint a commission 20 people, economists, lawyers, big names who then go off and you never hear from them again. Like the Zondo Commission who points the Zondo Commission spends a billion rand of taxpayers money four years, thousands of summones, hundreds of witnesses and nothing happens. Okay, that's surreal.
He likes to appoint commissions to go off and build. This time it's him in the firing line face to face with Donald Trump. And as you rightly say, and as Tony Leon rightly points out, Sil actually can't agree anything.
He has no power. He has no ability. Whatever he wants, we have no idea.
He's just this sock puppet made up of other people. You know, I always remember that be careful what you wish for because in the wings of Paul Mashetta, Fikil and Belula and behind them is EFF and MK. And you know, maybe we look back at this and say, you know, much as we do with them, we say, "My god, he was better than we thought.
I wish we had him back. " Maybe we look back in two in three years time and say, "We had it reasonably good with Sirill. Look at what we've got now.
" I'm still a four out of 10 on South Africa. I met three people on the airplane and one guy here yesterday at the hotel. All of whom have have left South Africa or are leaving South Africa and and they're sad.
The guy I met here wants to go back. You know, Elma wants to go back to South Africa. He misses South Africa.
His wife misses South Africa, but he says, "What hope is there? What hope is there for our children? " And that's where we are in South Africa, right?
Well, I disagree with Mr Elellman. There is hope as long as we have a Rob Hersof who's prepared to wear his heart on his sleeve and show some backbone and as long as we have others who are prepared to speak behind the scenes as well. Who knows maybe a miracle is about to happen.
South Africa's had enough divine inter intervention certainly from where I was at over the past uh 30 years 30 35 years. Maybe there's another one, another big moment coming. But there's no doubt, as Rob says, that this is this is the riveting theater.
Um, but live and unfortunately something that impacts all of us. Oh, don't we just wish for the days of boredom once again as far as geopolitics are concerned. Rob Hersoft, thank you for joining us at the early hours of the morning in Miami from Miami, Florida.
And I'm Alec Hog, compassnews. com.
