Alex Hormozi’s Guide To Get INSANELY Rich in 2024

If you die and you die with any knowledge left in your brain that you haven't shared with other people it's just a waste of a life people experience trauma I would just erase that things happen it is what it is things happen you can boil all of this down to fear of rejection people are okay with failing they're just not okay with other people seeing them fail why turn down $50 million I'm trying to make a billion Dollars you're right it's not your fault you're never going to be successful now what like some people like

add years to their life but they don't add life to their years how often and I want a serious answer to this question okay how often do you look at yourself in the mirror and you Flex both biceps how often do you do it speaking of the M yeah yeah probably A few times an hour a few times an hour I think you need to increase those numbers I might have to we don't have a mirror here though so I'm going to be down for the next hour over here you can just get up every

like got this I got beautiful little tricep there we go that's ridiculous is your workout split I'm guessing it's the same thing as it was last time haven't changed it's been a decade so can you just walk us through real quick if I Want a body like you what is the split want a body like me give me 30 days split we should preface it by saying this how much do you charge for your time really what do you what is one what is one hour of your time worth uh I don't know I would

probably wouldn't do anything for less than 50 grand 50 Grand for like just like hanging out for advice 50 Grand an hour probably about right so if this is a 2hour podcast speaking is like 200 250 let's just say For if someone wants your advice 50 Grand an hour if this if this podcast is two hours long yeah whoever's watching this is theoretically getting $100,000 of value just by listening to this so I just want to preface it by saying stick around for the episode you're getting a lot of value from this wow that was

fantastic nope back to our subject how how often do you go in the mirror and just Flex few few times an hour I mean really When there's a reflective surface I'll definitely give it a give it a whatever's convenient it might be a calf might be a calf flex it be a tricep Flex sometimes it might be a double front right I would say mostly to other people it's one of these I'll throw one of those up all the time that would be intimidating like if you want to thwart off an enemy it's just just

like a bear yeah yeah now like at the gym for sure like I I'll Flex on L all the time That's good yeah I want know because I've heard from other people people that are like larger bigger muscular tall like they other people will feel threatened by these people so they'll try to instigate some sort of fight because it's like an alpha mentality you feel like you've been threatened by some massive dude do people come up to you and you feel like you've been you know instigated in something not really never so that that's just

a farce I think I Don't give off a lot of like let's fight energy you don't think so no cuz some I mean if it'd be it'd be really hard because if someone's like like you man I'd be like you're right yeah you just don't care they be like be like you're a piece of [ __ ] I'm like probably like I agree this is where I want to be at that level of undeniable just confidence just raw confidence okay and I don't even Think it's conf I appr translated that way but it's just not

having anything that that bothers you but comfort with oneself right well it's like if someone comments on a on a post and they're like Alex you're an [ __ ] I'm like you're right okay cuz a lot of it's like I want to put a lot of effort into try to like make them wrong like why like why a I'm not going to change their mind at all anyways but like the flip side is why is that such a bad Thing like why is that not okay like you're anho I've been many times in my

life I'm sure I'm sure I have and so like they're right okay it's just like there's just not like I've noticed that I can end a lot of these things like there's no endless loop when someone's like you should have done this this and this I'm like you're right so what personality traits do you think are negative cuz you're saying being an [ __ ] necessarily is not a negative Thing where I would say by definition it kind of is it could be yeah I mean it's just it's all because we think that's somehow good

or bad you know what I mean and I think it's just like all of us have lots of different aspects to who we are and I think at different times in our lives we've been really impatient we've been really patient we've been really nice we've been really mean like I've had many of those things and then if we're really Going to say I have a character trait it's like to what degree do I have that trait like it's not a binary it's not like are you patient or not patient how patient are you um and

so for me it's just like a lot of people get really upset around someone calling them a name because they think that having that label ascribed to them by this one individual somehow means something and it's like I just don't think it means anything I think that's Because you have this security now I could be projecting but I would say most people if they are insulted if the insult is valid to some capacity and picks at their insecurity then they respond and they react and they deny pick it personally exactly that's all it is having

that affect them yeah but I think that's just being affected by outside influence like for you you're very just self assured it's just like your reality is your reality someone Else tells you otherwise it doesn't matter to you it's like someone telling you you have uh blue hair and you're like no I don't right well to your point this is this is a really fun little Side Story So I was walking with Leila um on the strip and and some guy bumped into her or something and he was like watch yourself skinny like he said

that to her and she was like I you think I'm skinny um and so like she said it like half jokingly to me afterwards not anything She we just obviously kept walking um but I thought it was such an interesting thing is that he meant it as an insult she chose to take it as a compliment which then meant that like all of the like these things that we get you know we toss at one another it's like it's only because we choose to accept that it's an insult that it becomes insulting like I'm sure

someone at some point in your life has said something that you that they intended to insult you with And you're like oh well that's not that's not that bad I'm actually kind of okay with that it's like well if I'm if I can make that thing okay one time then I can do that every time because it's literally just a choice on how I want to perceive it so you can obscure the intentions of other people to even if it's not necessarily the way that they intended it right I have no idea what their intention

is I have no way to know does it even Matter I don't I no idea idea what their intention is none I don't know what their psychology is I don't know what their affirmations are I don't know what they say in the like I don't know if they wanted to hurt me I don't know if they wanted to help me just doesn't like all I can know is like I could observe fact which is they said this okay now what like they said these words to me okay you know what for people that aren't familiar

with you because I bet There's a subset of the audience right now who's like who is this this guy is he a personal trainer uh yes tell people why very expensive personal trainer why they should listen to you you definely absolutely should not listen to me um as a first first and foremost um got into the fitness industry I started a gym opened a chain of gyms had six sold those six locations in Southern California when I was 26 years old started my first in when I was 23 uh took the IP from that started

doing gym turnarounds flew around the country did 30s something turnarounds um from there I really got the system dialed and then I started licensing it out um and over the next five or six years we got up to 5,000 locations um licensed our model on our company called gym launch I started started a supplement company called Prestige Labs uh which sold through that distribution base of gyms they sold our supplements Kind of specifically made for gym owners there's a lot of benefits we made specifically for gyms um and then I started a software company called

Allen in 2020 that was also to work brick and mortar leads because that's one of the big issues that a lot of brick and mortar business owners do is they like they get a phone call or they get a text and no one responds and so they just lose business for no reason so we wanted to solve that problem too all three of Those businesses uh we chose to exit in 2021 um two of them we sold together to uh American Pacific group for 46.2 million um in an all cash deal um I sold two-thirds

of it excuse me um and then uh the software company we did an entirely stock sale and I sold uh 75% of that company um and then starting into 2022 uh we started our family office formally up to that point my wife and I had made private investments into three companies that had done really really Well and we done um well enough with that that we said you know uh we'll take all the Divens and distributions we' taken up to that point plus the liquidation event that we had from um American Pacific group and we

said let's start our family office which is acquisition. comom and so we started with three companies um and now over the last you know however long um you know those those that portfolio in total does over $200 million a year um and I Started making content on the internet with the intention to help as many people get into business as humanly possible because I don't have a lot of faith in the larger Institutions and so I think that if we're going to solve our problems we need to do it for ourselves and I think entrepreneurship

is one of those paths in order to do that don't necessarily need to be an entrepreneur but just getting involved in businesses and private Enterprise in general I Think is the most efficient way that we can allocate the resources of humanity to solve Humanity's problems hey Graham what do you want for Christmas I don't know Jack well I got you an early gift you did are you serious yeah yeah I got you a lawn mower I don't need a lawn mower I have turf well Graham it's not your everyday lawn mower it's the lawnmower 5.0

Ultra body trimmer from manscape well let me see that and it's used I used it right before I came here Well Graham it's actually pretty nice for shaving down there and it has two different blade heads a standard one to take a little off the top and a new foil blade to go for that smooth finish it's waterproof and it also has Advanced Skin safe technology to prevent any Nicks from happening since that can be really painful all right jack I actually really like this and that's not all Graham I also got you the crop

Soother After Shave lotion and crop preserver Anti-chafe ball deodorant oh man Jack you really went above and beyond for this year thank you and if you think that's everything you're mistaken because this bundle also comes with the manscapes boxers 2.0 premium underwear and they are so soft and the shed 2.0 toiletry bag wow this is really comfortable man this seems like really good quality and this I like this because we'd be able to travel with this so don't go around saying I never did Anything for you Graham so if you guys are looking for the

perfect gift for a friend or family member head on over to manscape.com and use the code I at checkout for 20% off and free shipping once again guys that's code I with the link Down Below in the description at manscape.com thank you so much of manscaped and back to the episode and what do you say acquisition. comom does exactly we buy companies um usually 49% or more um of a business and then we Basically inject our expertise and capital uh into the business to grow it and so you know we'll we'll look at you know

we have to have a combination of do we like this business on its own do we think that we are a really good unique partner that can add a huge amount of like basically do we have an unfair Advantage with this deal um in terms of value creation not just like that we have proprietary deal flow because that's why I that's why I make the Content I do um but do we actually have a real way of like do we do we see a 10x that we can like Implement and execute on um and so

that's a lot of our kind of our front in diligence is okay this might be a good business but it's not our perfect business to work on and so we try and find those deals where it's just like there's no way we can lose and we try to do those deals how do you tell if there's a 10x what do you look for what Sort of qualities do you see so it's actually just looking at the business like a pipeline so it's like okay you've got uh x x like basically you have to understand everything

from click to close to Renewal and so every business more L is like you have eyeballs that at some point get converted into leads or they get converted into customers so if it's leads then they have eventually have to get a scheduled appointment they have to show they have to close and then Uh on the back end once they are closed they have to get a product delivered or service delivered and then they have to buy again and again or get upsold into other things right so if we look at that we can see breakages

along that line because that would be something that we' get in diligence just like okay what are the click-through rates on the ads what are the cpms on the ads what are the conversion rates on the pages what percentage are scheduling what Percentage are showing what percentage are closing what's the average offer rate what percentage are we collecting cash up front which the average close rate um on the back end like how many dropouts do we have in the first 48 hours after that uh what does it look like over the next 12 months or

24 months for those customers what percentage are sending to the next level of service and so if we look at that and we have our benchmarks for what we think We can do with the processes that we have already tested then we're like okay well these guys are getting 30% of their appointments to show up and we know that we can get that to 80 it's okay well there's a 2 and 1/2x okay boom there's one we're like okay um I think they're mispriced on this offer and I think we can at least double this

it's like okay well there's 5x you got two and a half and two you're like okay and right now they're not doing anything to reduce Their turn they're at 10% I think we get them to three so there's a triple and so we're like okay so that's 15x what's our confidence score in terms of like our likelihood that we'll be able to implement these changes is it like a super big overhaul or is it just like there's a handful of things we can Implement immediately see that and um the easier it is the more likely

we want to do it and so like I just bought um a chain of um Teeth witing Studios we have 32 locations we just bought um and I just got so excited because I saw their sales process and I was like I'm going to murder it's a very interesting business oh very interesting um I've seen a lot of those um just this direct to Consumer products though that you see that you get on the subscription and they just send you yep uh I actually I have a whole bunch from Ali okay believe it or not

from I think that was an alpha M Product alha M yeah well I saw their sales process and was like I can make this like we literally can just change a handful of things around here switch it from one time to membership make these packages based on these price points have an intake questionnaire you know like do some of the things that we already know work over and over and over again and we 5x the LTV of the customer so 5x how much people were worth to the business and so it's like great well There's

a 5x and uh then all I have to do is just double the locations over the next five years I got a 10x great and then what do you do once you do that is it just collecting cash or is it to eventually then sell that business depends on the the next one depends on the business um I would say there definitely are like I used to give probably like I always wanted to hold everything forever but I think there are times where it does make where where Businesses get to a point where the next

like increment of growth um requires like an order of magnitude in terms of effort that it's not worth or we might determine you know what we're we're good cashing out on this one like we might not be the right Partners or like we might not be the right owners to take it from here to there um it also just depends on what's on the horizon if it's like you know interest rates are super low I mean I Sold I sold literally everything I owned in 2021 cuz money was free and so I was like I

sold my house I sold my cars I sold all three of my companies I sold everything I was just completely cash um because it just it just seemed ridiculous what people were willing to pay so I was like okay and so if like something like that comes along that I would be consider if someone wants to if someone wants to buy it more then I want to own it then I always I always Entertain offers on hindsight it seems like you made a pretty good deal by selling everything somewhat at the peak of the market

I think you I think you cashed out the market kept going up a little bit then yeah amazing time and then I think you were in contract to byy a house weren't you and then you backed out of that at also fantastic time yeah so things have worked out pretty okay um on on the timing of that and I would not like CLA it just so it wasn't like I Think I'm timing the market it was just more like this makes sense like this is a this is a deal that I will accept and on

the flip side when you're buying you're like I don't know if this is a deal I want to do and it's just more like that unless you have like an absolute need which I would say on the flip side like if you need a house buy a house you know what I mean like if you like whatever if you need a if you need an office for Your company like buy an office cuz you're going to make more than trying to time the market perfectly at least in my opinion yeah so so what are you

doing now strategically do you think that things are going to be getting better what what are you holding on to like where do you place your importance today um I focus all my stuff on the things I can control honestly like I I actually spend a laughably small amount of time on like the economy and interest rates And things that are happening right now like I spend almost no time on it like the only time that I will think about that stuff is just to what degree will that affect our businesses and like the only

way that those things have affected our business is just that some of our businesses require financing or like use financing for for Consumer purchases so like you're buying a car you you know sometimes you use financing and so the um the interest rates on the loans that They're getting are higher so their actual payments are higher and so that affects sales and the average ticket that you can sell for those those businesses but then to what degree do I control that it's more that I'm aware of it and we do our best to mitigate those

things one thing I do want to talk about before we go into a lot of the other subjects is $100 million leads yeah uh I watched that and was blown away at that Pres presentation thanks how many people Did you have watching at that time uh we had 180,000 people clicked to go live yeah and then it you know buried how much work went into that presentation a lot a lot to me this was 200 hours it was structured in such a way where I'm listening to you and I'm thinking how could I use this

in my own life because it was that incredible every slide and every way you framed it was like you're getting this positive feedback loop by saying because you're here here it Worked yeah and because it works you should listen to me because all these people are here because it works and it was incredible how you pitch this so walk us through exactly what a $100 million leads is yeah um so it's the sequel to the first book $0000 million offers uh which was the the purpose of that book was to answer the question what should

I sell so like the first thing people were trying to get an entrepreneurship they're like what Should I sell like I'm trying to figure out like what I'm they they ask the question what business should I start what the the question they really should ask is what should I be selling or who should I be selling it to um and so offers answered that question is what I'm going to sell leads answers the second question which I almost just gave away which is who do I sell it to you need leads and so once you

figure out what to sell you have to go find those People and you can force people to find you through advertising and so I split test the name you know six or seven different times and so the book is about advertising but leads beat advertising in the split test so it's $100 million leads um but it's basically how do you let other people know about your stuff and so there are eight ways that you can let people know about stuff four that you can do on your own for that you need other people for and

so the book Basically details step byep how to do each of the eight and fundamentally if you're getting into business you only need to do one of them and do them well and if you do more than one then awesome now I specifically have used all eight in my life um for a variety of businesses and for the book launch I purposely like the offers book wanted it to be a meta concept meaning the offers book was 9 and it came with a course and all of that and it was it was all like Basically

free right but it was an offer so people feel stupid saying no and so like the the book itself was an example of what it taught leads was about getting leads and advertising and so I wanted to demonstrate all the things in the book to advertise the book like I think it's ridiculous when I there was a book on Amazon I think I used in the presentation who said how to Market a book it was like four years old and had 14 reviews I'm like I don't need to read This book to know that you

have no idea how to Market a book I have proof in front of me that you have no idea how to Market a book Because if you did know how to Market a book this wouldn't have 14 reviews and so if I was going to have a book about how to advertise like I better be good at advertising and so I thought that the event would be a great demonstration of that to show that these stuff and I I purposely because I wanted because I knew people would come back Later to it I purposely used

literally step by step what like I didn't I didn't go outside of the book so like the ads that I wrote for the book I use the templates in the book to write the ads for the book like the content that I made for the book I used the templates that I showed people to use on how to make content the emails that we wrote were emails that we used from the outbound part of the book and so just like every single part of this was using The book itself to Market itself and so um

that was what the book was about so like if you want if you have something to sell you need people to sell it to and in order to have people to sell it to they've got to find out about you in order to do that you need to advertise and that book teaches you how to do it how important was social proof was it just a random coincidence you had all the people in the background because I'm looking at this and I'm thinking this is So strategic to have everyone in the back versus you with

just like a gray wall with nothing going on in the background I wanted to I obviously want to show that there's lots of people there and I think the live you know indicator with however many people are live also helps for that stuff um but I actually think the the the biggest weakness honestly of that presentation was that there wasn't enough social proof social proof for like the stuff in The book so most times if I'm going to like Market if I were to like start a business around this I would probably have had a

beta group have them go through it show their results or their changes and then I would have used those stories and reviews and testimonials throughout the presentation but because it was so important to me to keep this like just this Mondo Secret until the day I released it I didn't have that luxury and so a lot of the stories that I told were actually basically borrowing from success stories from offers being like these books work in general and if this worked for offers it'll work even better for leads I kind of had to transfer it

that way um yeah there's always the implied I mean I and I I tried to use to your point I couldn't show people yet because the book had just come out that people could use the book to grow their businesses so I had to go one degree separated from that Which is I use the book to market the book look although before we going to that Jack and I have both managed our own small businesses and if you've ever run your own company I'm sure you're aware of how difficult it could be and how many

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free when you go to collective.com and tell them I sent you thank you so much Collective Guys collective.com let them know we sent you thank you back to the episode the one thing I also noticed throughout that is that you kept putting a price on what this was worth yeah like this is worth $3,000 and this is worth this and then I think at the very end you're like you're getting $8,000 worth of value and it was interesting for me to see the the immediate switch when people thought you were going to sell them something

and for me that that makes me upset in a way Because I'm like here's someone providing so much value offering nothing but free content this entire time and you're there learning from something and it's like oh gosh now maybe you have to spend some money for something else that you're not even forcing on like seeing the switch up in people of going from like these Avid supporters to all of a sudden just like Alex sucks okay sell out this is horrible I can't believe I wasted my time but you you hung through That to the

very end when you said it was free and then you had the book um what was that what was going through your mind at that point could you read oh you could read the comments so are are you not internally just like well I itet or it's it's like um they they don't know everything yet so like I understand why some people would be upset but they haven't like we the the last chapter hasn't been written yet so it's like leaving a book halfway Through it's like okay well you haven't heard the whole story and

so uh I was I was willing to bet that the only loss that I would have would be the people who would be who would already have made it 60 Minutes in so I was willing to bet that the people who made it 60 Minutes in were going to make it another 15 minutes and the only loss was the people who made it 60 dipped and then didn't make it the last 15 and that's a like you know from video retention like it's A tiny tiny and live it's even less it's like the retention curve

on that video is like flat and it actually goes up during the entirety of that uh process because everyone wants to see a train wreck like everyone wants to see what's going to happen right so it's it's the ultimate open loop the wholeway Thro um and so yeah I mean I I saw the comments I knew that they didn't know and if anything it just kind of got me um because I I went into it knowing or at Least expecting that was going to happen um and so I knew that would just like be a

even crazier rubber band like Snap when I flipped it yeah for me it's sad to think that so many people would switch after two years of giving value yeah it's like two years and they get upset at something that fast without even knowing anything course what do you think that says about people that are watching in general I would say if you were one of Those people who got upset for like a brief moment I would I would look internally um because if you get upset when people sell good luck trying to sell but um

it's people are people you know I like they're going to be them and I'm going to do you know I'm going to do my best to serve the audience and and and there and there are people who even though I gave everything away for free Um we like what the hell now it's now it's hard for us to compete he's giving all the stuff away for free like there was a there was my news feed was just all these people who were upset that I had given away stuff for free because it made it harder

for them to sell stuff so like I'm not like there's no way to to please everyone and so like I kind of just went into it saying like I will do what is right by me and what I have said I I will I will meet expectations and Like that is what I will commit to if I say I will do something I will do it I said I was going to do this thing and that's what I'm going to do and the next book is is going to be cool and I'll have a whole

new bag of tricks for that one yeah I'm why why do all of that for free for those wondering just like why would you not try to make money why would you not try to get more of something I saw so many TW Twitter threads that were analyzing how much you Would have made had you charged at different price points I would have made about 50 million yeah so why why turn down $50 million um because I have I'm not trying to make $50 million I'm trying to make a billion and that's me making 50

is not going to is not really going to make a big dent in that and so um I believe would though what is that 5% or something that you know but like substantial I think It so we're we're going to we're going to take a segue and I think you you'll like it you'll find this interesting so I'm I'm I have my next book coming out um but the book after that is the one that I'm thinking about because I've already written the next book um and I I wasn't going to write this next one

but it's the one that's been like on my mind the most which is on branding and I think it is one of the most misunderstood Concepts and I think it's Why so few people can build big things and I think brand is the single most valuable thing that you can build in a business because brand is basically persuasion or suggestion or influence at scale and so if you were to go to like the atmology of brand like where where does branding come from branding comes from cattle right you see your a cattle with your brand

on you literally brand them and what is the point of that the point of that is to change someone Else's Behavior so if you have two cows one that has a brand and one doesn't the one that doesn't have a brand you will treat differently than the one that does have a brand the one that does have a brand you might return to its owner you might steal it you might kill it depending on your relationship with the owner right which then depending on the brand right you you'll behave differently but at the end of

the day it will change your behavior and so the Point of a brand is to actually teach a change in behavior and so if you have a white shirt that's playing and a white shirt with a check mark you train a behavior that you want people to do something when they see that and then and behave accordingly and so the idea of braining is basically teaching it's pairing it's making associations between things people know things people don't know and then you do that enough time like if I wear this hat enough times People eventually just

want to wear the hat if they like what I have Associated the hat with if they like me like Fitness they like they like free value they like the the values in general that I stand for they will start ass that if they want to be more patient they want to be more ambitious they want to be more fit want to be more you know driven whatever it is whatever they associate me with they might put this hat on because it stands for that for them They've made that Association and so they'd be willing to

pay more for this hat than just a generic hat and like that is branding and so to the point that you like why not make 50 million um I think that I want my brand to stand for something more than that and so I made it the mission to make real business education accessible for everyone and that is what I have been I have not wavered from that since I started doing this and I have two Aspects to that one is like the distribution of how do I get this to everybody and how to make

it accessible and that has multiple levels to it which is one is like is it easy to understand but also like is it fun and entertaining and I'm getting better at that I think I'm better at the easy to understand part I'm still working on how do I make this more entertaining so that like a stay-at-home mom will actually click and maybe get interested in something like This and maybe recommend her son or her daughter like watch something like that I'm not there yet like but that's like in order for me to get that level

of accessibility like I need to get better but on the flip side the context that the content is consumed within is basically my background so like at the very beginning you're like hey just for everybody who doesn't know here's this guy right if I had said hey I make $100,000 a year um listen to me I don't I mean I think fewer people would listen to me I mean maybe some would but like far fewer would listen to me as a quote Authority on on making money in general we had to provide the cont text

up front because the context is in my opinion a a larger percentage of the message than the message itself like Yan musk can tweet on the toilet and say like I'm [ __ ] right now and everyone will like think it's hilarious and whatever if I tweet that or you tweet that we Probably wouldn't have the same response because we are not the richest man in the world and so like that message is contain is is consumed within the context of Elon Musk and so what I'm building with my you know my personal brand right

is the context to deliver a message at scale that I want to deliver and we're not there yet and so this is much more of like a 10 year 15 20 year plan that I'm that I'm trying to uh outline and you know I'm showing pages One at a time like the book launch was one piece there's going to be another piece next year and like people will see that as it unveils so it's more about the perception of you rather than potentially optimizing for impact because there is an argument I feel like to be

had if you were to charge some money for the book I do think people would pay more attention and potentially it would make more of an impact on those who do read it than just giving it out Universally for free I'll give you the argument for it so but I do think that perception overall people like oh this is the guy that gives all of this value for free whether or not it impacts them who's to say so I I I've been on both sides of this I have charged lots of money for things and

so you make a greater impact giving away things for free that's just objective you'd say yes because you get 100 times more people to consume it and so but the percentage of People who consume it who are impacted is smaller so if I charge for something a higher percentage of people who consume the thing if they paid for it will be likely to to follow through with it if it's free a 100 times a thousand times more people will consume it but a smaller percentage but a larger absolute amount of people would be impact it

I respect the objectivity on that or the objective answer I had to I had to deal with that because I had to deal with That myself I was like well if I claim this like now if you have like for example a really indepth like if I were if I were flying out to people's houses and trying to like do huge interventions with people and like recook their [ __ ] like no you can't do that for free but like there are certain things that you can give away for free information give away for free

Med in general like you can give away for free software if you're really good at coding give away For free like there are elements there things you can give away for free tools sometimes um and I think that this is from a business perspective you you'll ultimately make more money giving serving a huge amount of people and then having some bar that people can jump over now I purposely put my bar really high um because I know that like I only need one Facebook I don't need it you know mean like I don't need like

people would be surprised by how few deals we Do like I get 2,000 I get 2,400 companies a month that reach out to me to do a deal every month inbound like can we do a deal with you and in in two years I've done 22 deals in total so like you look at that over you know whatever 2 like 50,000 60,000 deals that I've looked at and I've done 22 it's a very small percentage Gram I'm sure you know I'm sure Alex hor mosy knows I know as well and if you're a viewer and

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the episode part of me thinks what's the message that you want to share that you can't already share with your platform it seems like the platform is big enough that whatever you say will have an impact what what can you not already do Right now oh I can I mean I can I don't think it's what I can do I think it's who who it will reach so like I think right now sure I've got whatever six seven million whatever followers across different social medias and whatnot but um there there's a different level of impact

there compared to if I had 70 you know across that and I'm still learning this game I'm like I'm like super new to this um I came from the business side and was Like I see the value in this um and part of it is because just my general worldview is like I believe in education over everything and I think that if you if you if you die and you die with any knowledge left in your brain that you haven't shared with other people it's just a waste of a life like the idea that you

could learn something and then share it with no one and then die it's just such a waste it's like why not just give it to some like it'd be like the Guy inventing the wheel and be like nah I'm not sharing it like why do you have firm long-term goals on why you focus so much on branding what you're optimizing for is it for the next Facebook or is it for something um I think so I mean I've built this brand on the idea of Faith which is that like I believe that opportunities present themselves

when they're right and I like I it's not like and I'm sure with you like there's no shortage of opportunities the amount Of things that come my way but it's like it has to be the right one um and I'll know it when I see it um but yeah I'm I'm pretty patient about it because I also enjoy doing it like that the only reason I can still do this because I enjoy doing it I also have other means of income I think it's worth saving the context that I can deliver the message in to

give away some of the short-term money to have the trust of a much larger audience later how much did you end up Making from that I think it was like five million still impressive yeah you think objectively $30 bus Tak a lot of exactly yeah and yeah I mean I mean the books probably in general right now make about a million bucks a month um but like that's it's it's not an efficient business you know what I mean like books are not a great business to get into like there's cost like you you there's no

price control on a book like you can't charge $50 for a book like you're You're stuck at what books go for which is 29 bucks like that's what books go for right um it's it's an actual physical product that you have to mail to everyone so you've got Logistics you've got shipping like there's there's a lot of other like you have to print the books like there's a lot of costs that go into just like 29 bucks and then you you make the margin on that so on a million a month what's your net profit

on something like that uh 360 I think It's still it seems like that's still still it's for a book yeah no I mean don't get me wrong it's a top like there's whatever 60 million titles on Amazon like both books are top 200 like it's point it's like not a 1% book it's like a 0.000000 1% book yeah we were talking to Mark Manson recently um and he told us that I think it was like 20 $30 million when you really did the math reverse engineered how much one successful book Made net profit yeah which

is incredible I mean it's why Ingram you know like owns vanderbelt University like Ingram is Publishers like you literally print money well the thing that's interesting with books is that they the oldest form of media right and so um you print a book and if if the book is good enough that when people read the book more than like on average each book creates at least more than one other book buyer from like Word of Mouth then it just Becomes a perennial like how think about how to make friends and influence people like seven you

know habits of successful people Stephen kavi like uh Rich d p dad uh Dave Ramsey his millionaire makeover those ones right like those books when you sell 5 million copies of a book it's $30 that's $150 million and so and now that might be spent over a decade but the thing is like Stephen King still collects checks for carry like still and so from a Leverage perspective it's kind of Interest like now that I'm in the publishing business which is kind of ironic because I guess I'm a top super high percentage author but like I

don't consider myself on that way it is a really interesting business because it requires almost almost no employees if any like I I I employ my father-in-law it's my only direct report um and he I was just like just managed the book stuff just in General like the Amazon listings and the and the warehouse and the printer you know making sure we order more book like just manage all that and so he does that but like we could probably do it um or I could take a few hours and do that I just don't what's

the difference between putting that in a book and making like a YouTube video that's 10 hours long I do it I mean I did that too yeah so I just I just did it in every format so it's like if you want a physical copy of the Book then you can pay for a physical copy of the book but you can literally get an audio version of the book for free on my podcast and not pay for it you can get the video version for free on my website not even opt in for it it's

free on the site you can watch the entire book just with a visual presentation because if I'm going to try to make it accessible for everyone then I need to make it for whatever learning format a lot of people don't read a lot Of people only watch video a lot of people only listen like everyone's very different in terms of how they consume and so I just wanted to make it for everyone and the you might find this interesting it's like an almost perfect split of how people consume it so it's I think it's it's

it's 25% uh hard copy 25% ebook 25% audio and then uh 25% like video what do you think the biggest problem people have right now is when it comes to Business oh man just from your observation because of 200,000 people watching it you have to notice these 200,000 people have a problem that they're trying to solve there got to be some solution that you have that they want that I have um no honestly I think I think a lot of it is um is is people overthink a lot and they they use overthinking as a

proxy for action and it just isn't they think that they're being productive by thinking more about The business they want to start rather than just starting it and it's just it's fear I mean you can you can boil all of this down to fear of rejection like people are okay with failing they're just not okay with other people seeing them fail for Success let's say a recipe for Success what percentage would you say should be thinking about action versus action like premeditating what you're going to do versus action yeah in the beginning you Need to

think a lot like do a lot more and the more advanced you are the more you need to think and less you need to do it just it just flips over time and you just know automatically that like I think it happens naturally like I don't think you know think about Warren Buffett he makes like one move a year and it's like he spends basically the rest of the time trying to make the right decision and so like you move the speed with which you move through Business is directly proportional the amount of Leverage you

have with the actions you take and so leverage being defined as the difference between what you put in and what you get out like if you have a lot of Leverage then like with this podcast we have a lot of Leverage like there's a lot of people that will listen to this even though we might only take us a couple hours right to do this so there's we put a little bit in but we get hundreds of thousands Of people who who will see and listen to this you know later um but when you start

you don't have leverage and so you need to make up for that with just shitloads and shitloads of effort um and basically do like you can see output as volume of of repetitions times leverage equals output and if you have no leverage then you just need to crank on volume until you can create leverage and one of the things that creates leverage of skill so like Graham can make a video And someone else can make a video and it might take and the other person the same amount of time to make the video and Graham's

video will have hundred times more people who see it that's leverage skill created that leverage but how did he get the skill the volume that he did beforehand so it's like there's no like you can you can work smarter not harder but you have to work hard in order to work smarter so you have to do that first Yeah so we just had on Dr K or healthy gamer on the podcast and he said like I I wanted to know how people start taking action in in the first place like like what is and and

he gave me a very interesting answer I want to know what your answer is like if they can't find motivation to just start taking action in the first place where do they start if not just action I think I think motivation can be measured by um it's equal opposite which Is deprivation so you are you want water You're motivated to drink water to directly proportional to how thirsty you are you are horny in the direct proportion to how long it's been believe it at that right um and so those are physiological needs that most people

kind of understand like hunger works the same way like you're really hungry if you haven't eaten while so you're more Deprived you're more motivated so money is kind of interesting because you then think okay well poor people should be the most motivated but that we can see with our eyes that that's not the case so then like what's different there is that the deprivation has to be perceived so like you feel when you're hungry like you have physiological need to eat or you'll die but I see more motivation among rich people to make money which

by that context Would mean that they feel more deprived of money than poor people do and I would say me personally like I'm talking about how I want to get to a billion dollars plus I'm extremely Money Motivated and the difference between my current level of wealth and a billion dollars is greater than the person who is at $5,000 a month who wants to make $10,000 a month both both in relative and absolute amounts I'm more deprived of my goal than they are and so I'm more motivated And so um from a tactical perspective if

you want to change your behavior you need to change your environment it's the fastest way to change Behavior like if you want if you want to get good at swimming you join a great swim team it's the fastest way like you want to get great at ping pong you join a great ping pong team and you play on the team you surround yourself with other people who then you can compare yourself to and get fast Feedback loops going uh to get better and so like if you're like at home in your mom's basement and that

environment consistently does not help you change the behavior you want then you need to move so then what if the person knows what's good for them to move and change their environment but yet they still don't do it then they won't do it you just think that's a just a there has to be some level of something that they are deprived from so they're they're Probably comfortable they're actually not that deprived so like they're like I'm really motivated it's like you're not you're not if you don't want to be that successful that's fine like it's

only like you thinking that there's a problem with it is why there's a problem like you're going to die I'm going to die both of us will be forgotten a long enough period of time so like it doesn't really matter I find this interesting and so that's the game I play if I if I Loved video games as much as I loved business I'd play more video games I just love business more so you're pursuing business pursuing a billion because it interests you it amuses you or do you have a certain like North Star like

we talked to Tom Bilu done something with him twice I think now he says his North Star is increase human flourishing and decrease human suffering yeah do you have a true north that you kind of like always base all decisions Off of or are you in pursuit of this billion dollars just because it amuses you it's not yeah no it's I mean billion dollars is is just an objective measure and when I hit that it'll be 10 you mean I'll just move the the goal post it's more um I want to die with nothing left

and so like what I would what I would love to have be true on my tombs Stone not just have it there but what I would love to be true or at least that people say is that like that man died with Nothing left to give and that would be a life well-lived for me and so like I deem that why do you need a billion to be able to I just think that that that having that contrast will force me to be a better version of me like I'll have to level up and so

I want to be the like for me to have nothing left to give means that I've used up every ounce of my potential and so like do I think I can be a billionaire absolutely and so that's what I'm measure your giving in a Billion dollars no or how does no I think I mean I think the stuff that I do with my content my books is far in my my opinion far more impactful now to be fair a billion dollars $5 billion $10 billion can do a lot of good and I I like if

I'm thinking about this in the long term which I try to like if I spend 10 20 more years building this amazing audience of people that I can help and then I over that same period of time I'm able to aggregate a tremendous amount of Wealth one it gives me credibility to the things that I'm trying to talk about but also like there will be merging of those two things that can create something really magical and that's what I look forward to and who I am today doesn't necessarily have all of the details yet and

I'm like I'm fine with that like future me is pretty smart too he'll figure it out I want to talk about Solomon okay sure you said this during a couple of podcasts which is like your 85-year-old self you name them Solomon yeah and that's the counselor that you use to base decision- making off of in this day yeah can you talk us through the last thing that you consulted with Solomon and maybe if I didn't properly describe who Solomon is I'll give I'll give some context so Solomon was named after something called the Solomon Paradox

and for those who don't know who Solomon was in the Bible he was a very wealthy uh ruler uh who many other Kingdoms came to to seek counsel or advice the reason it's called Solomon's Paradox is that he was amazing G giving advice but his actual life was in shambles so he cheated on his wife and his son was you know he had bad bad relationship with his son and so the idea is that as humans we are better at giving advice than we are at following it and so that's why it's called Solomon's Paradox

and so so in in an effort to try and get better answers the The higher up and I'll use quotes here that you get in business or whatever Endeavor you're going after the harder it is to find people who can actually help you out and part of having or getting help from people is that I want someone who has aligned incentives I want someone who um is competent and I want someone there's a third piece but it's there's three things you want oh and they I want them to have complete context so like they have

to have Complete context they have to be competent with that context to give advice and they have to be aligned CU if someone's super competent and uh and has complete context and not aligned they just know how to ruin my life you know I mean if they're really aligned and they're competent they have no context they might have good advice in general but it won't be specific to me right if they're aligned and have uh context but they're incompetent it's your mother she Completely understands you and she loves you but she has no idea how

to tell you how to invest right and so I wanted someone who would have all three and so in trying to think through this I i' had you know multiple experien with the you know executive coaches councelor therapist whatever you want to call it and I've I've always had very short-lived experience with this those people and I think part of my experience was that I felt like there a lot their Incentive was not aligned it was that their goal from a financial perspective was that I just continue to pay and I was like well that

doesn't really solve problems for me like you just want me to keep staying no matter what you say that's how you get paid right the other piece was that uh from a context perspective I would notice that I would spend 60 minutes trying to to just give color to the decision that I was trying to make that I was faced with just so That they could give me some valuable feedback on it and the third piece is if I'm talking to a therapist I'm probably better at businessing them and the vast majority of the problems

that I face on a daily basis have to do with business and so like I'm asking somebody who is basically a solar preneur or self-employed on how I'm trying to manage a $200 million your portfolio and how I'm going to like allocate resources and like they're probably not going to Have a good answer for me in terms of their confidence level and so in trying to tackle that I Came Upon the Solon Paradox I was like What if I could give myself advice because I'm sure everybody who's listening to this is given somebody advice on

a relationship or on Fitness or whatever and you're like man if I follow that advice I'd be in better shape too and so I was like well maybe maybe I I have the answers and I just need to package it differently and so I Started having these sessions with what I call you know my 85-year old self who I call Solomon for whatever purpose that seems to separate my personal self and my older self because that man is the only person who has absolutely aligned incentives with me has complete context to my situation and is

as confident as I am and I'm trusting the fact that I give better advice than I he and so I have basically chat Forum messages with Solomon it's an ongoing Document it's the first hour of every Monday for me it's like what's top of mind for me and the nice thing is that it also can last 7 minutes and sometimes it can last 45 minutes I don't need to like stay for 60 or drive somewhere or take a zoom call like if I get to the bottom what I wanted to get to it's done and

I don't need to waste all this time giving context and so um I usually keep going uh with Solomon literally back and forth like it's chat I just hit enter And I just keep going back and forth until I get to the root of the issue and I usually have some sort of thing that solom will tell me that will kind of like close the loop and I know it when I when I when I get it and then at that point it's like I don't think about that thing anymore like the decisions made or

like I know like I've I've resolved the inconsistency and so an example of that was um I had a I had a a big snafu that happened I'd worked for a while on a Project and um it ended up falling through because of a vendor and um it cost me about $15 million um of actual money it really sucked and so I was really upset I mean I was I was very what happened I won't go into the details um but like I had basically think about this way like I paid a big chunk of

money for insurance uh against a $15 million loss and the person that I had paid that was literally their only job that I paid a good chunk of money a Fraction of that but a good chunk of money several hundred, to ensure that didn't happen and then after paying it did happen and I was like this was the only jobob you had this is the thing that you were this is the only thing I you for was this one thing that you said you specialized in and like what you know so I was really upset

about it and so I'm having this conversation it's almost and the thing is the more I talk to the Person the more I realized that they were just truly incompetent it wasn't malicious they were just stupid and they made the promises just because they're stupid and so it's almost like uh if you have a Babe Ruth rookie card and your toddler pours pain on it what do you do you hit the kid like they don't understand like you just have to take it you just get kicked in the nuts just is what it is um

and so I was going through this process with with Solomon and um he Said I am the asset you are building and I am satisfied with the effort you put in and that is enough and that was kind of it for me I was like my I put all this work but two years into this thing in this project um and it was because of the person that I ultimately want to be because I'm going to die it's not going to matter anyways um um and so the person I'm becoming is the ultimate asset that

I'm trying to build to answer the billion dollar Question like buing is just a reflection of the asset I'm trying to build and that's the person who I want to impress and the the interesting thing with s is that like you especially the higher higher performing you are because I'm sure you get this question a lot like how do you stay motivated whatever if you've achieved a certain amount it's by not comparing yourself to other people it's by comparing yourself to the person you want to be and so the tough part About that if you're

really real about it is that like Solomon knows if I could have tried harder so like with a presentation for the the leads book I put more effort in I put 200 hours in over 28 days it's basically every hour every day I'd review the slides in the morning I would do a live recording and then I would watch the recording afterwards and I would edit the slides in real time as I watch the recording and I did that every day for the entire Month leading up to it I had no idea yeah wow I

thought maybe you was like a teleprompter or something I know you're kind of going based off the sides but yeah and so it was funny CU like right before I got on stage I'm going to loop back to Solomon like the lady who was the the the one who ran the venue with the the the screens and whatnot was like I've literally never seen anyone so chill about something like this and this is like the biggest event we've ever Even had here and um I was like I've done this before like I've done this before

like this isn't my first time like I know this presentation like there's nothing more I could have done to prepare for this and so like in that instance Salon in that you know Min setting would be like I am proud of the effort I know you put in because at that time whether the all the cameras cut off and you know a storm came through and everything blew up there was nothing More I could do and so for that like I try to make that man proud of me but the tough part is is that

he knows how hard I can try and then a lot of times if you are a high achiever if you compare yourself to other people you're going to beat them anyways and so like you can't compare yourself to them and it's like well who's the one person who always knows how much more I could have tried and that's future me and I also think that hopefully I future me has an even Higher work capacity and more focus and better skills than I do uh to work and so that's the the man I ultimately try to

impress and um if I'm brutally honest with myself um I think I think he gives me ruthless honesty um in terms of my deficiencies and the things that I can work on and I am good enough at giving that advice um that I can I can take it so for the 15 million loss though what was the takeaway for you it's just like I know you did everything you could but Then wouldn't that also say that you should have done a better job thatting people to make sure they're more confident yeah I mean those are

the I'm going to always do that but I would say this is that when you play with bigger Stakes you your chips wor are worth more you know what I mean like if you're if you're playing you're playing a poker game and you're buying a million bucks every hand you're betting 50 Grand you know what I mean and so like as the as The game gets bigger you just add zeros to the stakes and so if you want to make a billion dollars you have to be willing to lose 100 million it's just it's just

I mean you've lost money now right up this I'm sure you've lost money on things and be like [ __ ] I learned from that given the information that I had at the time about the vendor and their experience and how they came recommended I think that the decision that I made was Reasonable now I could always go and 100% quadruple check every single thing but at what point do I become micromanaging and then blow that blows up in my face so it's like uh Ray D talked about this with um I think crypto in

the early days uh but he basically said I don't feel bad about missing out on opportunities because if I were to make the decision to Pro that opportunity I'd have to also apply that same decision-making process to all the Other opportunities that I would have bought and then lost all my money on and so like sometimes you just get kicked in the nuts and I think that um like you do the best you can there's always going to be things that arec controllable and it is what it is when is the last time you've fallen

short of Solomon standards every day every single day yeah of course like for real like there's there's always things I could do better on I could have I could have been you Know I could have been kinder to lately I could have put more effort into like what I was going to say to her this morning like there's always things I can do better and it's um and yeah I but I will say that my talks with Solon are typically about one specific thing so when we have ask you questions it sounds like you place

a lot of value and fulfillment in who you eventually will be at some point right which is like the the guy providing the most amount of Value the billion dollar guy Etc Solomon yes um yet at the same time you do say things like I do not want to place my value in some sort of future event that could happen right because then you're creating a distance between who you are right now and who you like to be um how do you maintain that balance of like putting so much value in this future self yet

at the same time being filled and happy in a present moment I think it's just the process of becoming you Know I mean like I like if you ask me truthfully like I enjoyed every minute of the of the suffering of doing that presentation five six hours every single day for the entire month leading up to that like I I enjoyed it because I knew I felt like I was becoming the vers of me or was living through the values that I choose to believe matter to me how do you find something or how does

someone that's watching this find something that they can set as their true north that Every single action will make them fulfilled on their way to that I don't think you're going to figure it out on the first shot I think I think an easier North Star is um learning to work Le basically I'll give you I'll give you a different example so I had um I had a buddy who was in the fitness industry and he had a pretty successful Fitness business and then he quit that uh to start cookies a cookie store completely I

he's getting people skinny and he's Making it fat he was like yeah I've got a complete system right joking right and um he wasn't passionate about cookies he was passionate about being excellent at whatever he did and I really like that as the frame which is like you don't need to tr like first off you're not going to find your passion because anything that you start doing that you haven't done before you're going to suck at because that's what you do when you do something for the first time and you Tend to only like things

that you are good at and so sucking is a prerequisite for liking most of the time and so you just have to be willing to suck um in order to quote find your passion which all you ended up doing is creating a passion but whatever and so anyways he had his uh his cookie store and it wasn't like he woke up everyone and be like I just want to feed cookies to the world like I just want everyone to understand how butter and chocolate and Salt work well he didn't think that way he was like

I want to run an excellent business and so whether he was doing a dry cleaning business or a tractor supply store business or he was wholesaling real estate it was his dedication to Excellence that single value which then permeated everything else and so I think that for somebody who's starting out like simply dedicating yourself to understanding what hard work feels like and and the Commitment to the repetitive actions that you have to do day in day out without reward like making that the W gets you there and I think the long term is that you

just make that the W period you're not thinking about getting there you just win every day and you think that will serve most most people is absolutely to strive for excellence in a given field million percent and then creating you said creating interesting rather than finding a Passion no one finds passion I mean some people do sure some I think the vast majority of people vast majority of people find themselves in careers because they on a like think about like the first job you ever got it probably just like on a whim somebody told you

there was a thing and then you find yourself 10 years later like off a tree branch uh from this this first path of career that you got into what I would disagree not for me I yeah The aquarium stuff I wanted to do that but you still do you're still off a tree branch I mean we vlogged on this to family about your aquarium and stuff like that but I feel like I have control over that like that was just something I would love to do yeah well my my my point here was just that

um dedicating yourself to being excellent and doing the repetitive tasks you get better at the thing and then you tend to like the things when you get Better at them like and then external reinforcers start kicking over like you just need to have enough in the beginning to get you going and then after that like being good at playing ping pong takes over for playing ping pong do you like anything you're bad at do I like anything I'm bad at um what are the some of the things that you're bad at maybe Lila is like

oh let's go ax throwing you're like I hate axe throwing but I will do it you do it and you suck But you like it um there's not many things really yeah something I don't I mean I don't do many things that I like to be fair I don't do a lot of stuff like I literally I I um I recently picked up pingpong which is fun you actually yeah yeah I recently picked up I I can coach you dude are you good I'm disgusting at pink I'm very good at that's like that's my one

thing did you compete no I've never competed have you been to Las Vegas table tennis no okay It's like a club on the strip it's the people there are incredible oh sweet yeah I might I might partake yeah no I've just like I I I used to play at home when I was a kid um because I didn't have siblings for a while and so I just played against the wall for [ __ ] hours what do you like about ping pong what's the appeal of it low State baby yeah it's 100% that is it

do you find a way to zone out is that just like I I am not there while in the Moment your mind is just it's like racing if you've ever done like race cars it's the same thing like you there there's too like not just like rallying but like if you're really playing you can't focus on anything besides the ball and so like everything else disappears what do you get out of that I just enjoy that it's like unplugging like that's just truly like a recreation like I just enjoy it I would say the same

thing is true for Lifting for me like when you Have a huge amount of weight on your back you're you can't think about anything else you just have to be there an old time lifter Dave Tate used to talk about he wrote this kind of like epic blog post on he called going into the void and he said when his father died he um like the thing that he would look forward to most was like getting under the bar because like during those few seconds where he had like his life literally like on his back

cuz if you [ __ ] it up with 1,000 PBS in your back like you'll just break your back he's like it was like the world went quiet and I think that's that's what I like the most but I lift I now recently picked up ping pong back up again um and I do business and that's what I do just since you're here and you're like such a strong guy okay I'm wondering because because I I've been thinking about like I did get on Crea I kind of slowed it Down I picked it back up

but I heard from somewhere that it can build muscle like 33% faster as someone who's just absolutely shredded you probably do Crea like don't well way to make assumptions yeah I mean I just thought everyone was taking it to be honest everyone's on this everyone's on it is it not you don't take creatine no I don't take creatine if you eat a lot of meat you already have a ton of creatine in it but I I if you look up the data like creatine you should be taking 5 milligrams per day and if you have

to eat so much meat in order to get that much so have you have you ever seen like the midwit memes where it's like the IQ where it's like the the dummy and then like the middle guy and then like the guy at the end yeah at the very end a lot of stuff in Fitness is like that that makes a lot of sense so it's like pick the right parents eat protein uh Lift progressively heavier weight and then you're like set schemes red schemes BL and it's like pick the right parents like eat protein

lift more weight over time have you ever gotten your testosterone checked of course you have yeah actually recently what's your testosterone it was 124 124 yeah super what do you mean 124 I thought it goes up to like a, yeah isn't 500 300 to 1,000 is the like recommended range I'm below the recommended range how how is That even physically possible I've always been low the highest reading I've ever had is 270 you eat lots of soy that makes no sense CU I see that like the beard and the muscle don't you have to have

the deep voice no it's like you have to have more testosterone you can be Androgen sensitive that can be very sensitive to Androgen some people are not sensitive at all so it's like if you add testosterone to your system like you somebody will get a significantly higher Response than other people and so you have you know genetic Potential from parents but you also have just like how responsive you are to anabolic hormones in general like some of the big because we the Olympia just happened for bodybuilding like this last week a lot of those guys

some of them some of the the genetic factors that they have are just that their body is just more responsive to anabolics than other people and so like you can just be more Androgen sensitive so like you need less you need less testosterone to make the same muscle and so like those ranges are they're arbitrary they're completely arbitrary now if you are below that you know 300 and I'm not going to get into sign stuff everyone don't listen to me so I put that as my disclaimer but if you're you know below 300 but you're

not suffering from low testosterone issues like you don't have erectile dysfunction you don't have like Issues getting out of bed in the morning you're not depressed you're not moody you're like you're you pretty much just like you don't have like you know supremely low muscle mass compared to normal men then you're probably just Android sensitive and it's fine wow so I noticed this theme in you of like I don't care what anything's happening I'm controlling what I'm controlling and I'm being exactly who I want to be were you always like this as a kid or

was this Something that you have developed over time yeah I think it's a SK has developed over time I mean I think there's definitely like when we talk about deprivation earlier um I definitely felt deprived of money I've always wanted to make a lot of money that's like been a very big desire of mine um and I just have gotten better and better at pursuing that goal you know like in the beginning I just had General motivation but I had no skill so It's like I heard this works I heard you know like you just

you you go you wander and you just have lots of activity to try and burn through things to figure out like what starts to give you some feedback and you start moving in that direction I've always been motivated um I've always been pretty high achieving I don't have the like I failed school and like I was great at school you know I I think I had 13 AP credits going into college I finished College in Three years magnol l i was vice president of the powerlifting team I was president of the fraternity like I always

tried to [ __ ] life you know what I mean everyone's different but like at the same time there's plenty of people who didn't have any of that stuff and then crush it later um but you I think you can just always make the decision to do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it like the idea that you haven't been Successful for your entirety of your life has absolutely no impact on why you can't be successful right now the the work that needs to be done for someone to succeed remains unchanged

and so like whenever you choose to start that you choose to start that and everything before that moment doesn't really matter well I think it's easier when you have momentum behind you for sure yeah I'm just saying like objectively if you have zero momentum and you still do the thing It still works my my thought is that it might be harder if you don't have that previous success to draw from totally might hold you back in in ways of maybe being more cautious yeah self-doubt things like that yeah um I think I think uh I

I use the term chunking up or chunking down but like the you know the biggest predictor of future success is past success regardless and so the idea is like okay well you might be like well I want to take this big jump but I've Never done that before like how do I take this jump how do I take this risk right well it's like can you generalize some of the other things you've done in the past um that would give you some level of confidence that this is not unreasonable and so it's like if I've

been really disciplined at school and exercise then it might be I might it might follow that I'll be relatively disciplined with my job is a guaranteed no but I could still make a Generalization that that's it's plausible and so I think it's like stacking those wins uh as low as a common denominator as you can I mean you know for somebody who's absolutely just like sucking a life right now then it's like if you got out of bed today then cool call A W you know what I mean like just regress it back and then

you start just like you'd add weight to a bar you add weight to the goals so is it as simple as just waking up in the morning Great then it would be Take a Walk for 10 minutes great and then just building on that yeah and I think your bar always moves like when a toddler in the beginning begin speaking they approximate the word Mom they're like and you're like yeah you're so excited but like you know a 10-year-old says mom and you tell them to screw off right like the bar moves I'm not your

mom right yeah sure I'm not your mom um no but the bar moves Because like your standards for excellence continue to improve so it's like if you're like don't use someone else's standards use your own and once you can say mom really consistently then like start saying sentences I want to know because we talked I think it was the first or second time you came on the podcast about trauma sure cuz you have very interesting takes on okay okay and recently not to be that guy but I feel like I have gotten more similar to

your Beliefs with regard to trauma everyone goes through traumatic experiences in their life it's their response to that trauma that actually ends up making the difference now I saw this video I don't know if you've seen this before but it was someone holding the baby yeah and then they like knock on a doorway nearby or a door nearby and they're like oh my God I'm so sorry I hit your head and the baby's like and it starts crying as though it's in pain right and that could Be a traumatic experience for that baby and then

I saw another video of a baby that took a tumble like a pretty bad spill and the mom's like oh look we just had a happy spill this is so funny and the baby starts laughing yeah and like one actually went through something and one did not yet the responses were completely different so I think now my opinion from these two baby you know tick toks is that like it really has to do with the way that other people Respond to your trauma and then your perception of how you should be feeling after a specified

event occurs I agree which is crazy I'll I'll add one piece to what you said yes which is that you said um people experience trauma I would just erase that things happen things happen no need to label good or bad right things happen to people it's mean that's a very hard switch though totally that's like that's a whole different level to this sure Like was I traumatized by the the $15 million loss no was it unfortunate yes did I deal with it yes okay I'm not traumatized I'm not like I can never make it beted

again no like it is what it is things happen the toddler can spill pain on your baby with card what do you do now are you traumatized do you blame your baby like man I've got all these issues cuz my baby but you know what but but there could be but you know what there could Be instances that happen that definitely change your entire mindset like let's say you are driving fast on the freeway all the time and then you get in a horrible car accident you could be terrified of driving especially at that speed

for good reason maybe your per your entire perception is is is changed after that is just accelerated learning it's all is just accelerated learning and the question is just is the behavior that I learned something that I want Does it serve me now if you were driving really fast and then you drive slower does that serve you well forgetting places on time you might have to leave a couple minutes earlier besides that like does it serve you and the likely that you die in a car accident yeah probably so is that a is that is

that traumatic or is that like you just learned I think just calling at trauma makes it this really heavy thing well here's here's maybe a better example uh there's that Video of a car on the freeway where all of a sudden the car is just driving along going the speed limit and a tire at the no fault of that car tire comes out the car flips I would be terrified of driving just because you never realize how dangerous it is until you're in an experience like that yeah and then the question would be is that

the lesson that you want to learn from that or is it that there was a baby and he ruined your baby withth card like you were Driving and something happened it's just like is is the adaptation is the learning useful if it isn't then maybe we don't call it trauma maybe we call it bad luck but trauma to a certain degree is a thing is it right because well if you look at you know all available data and people that go through certain things I don't know what that means but like if you look at

all available data but if you're saying like do people have emotional disturbances I would agree With you I think if you tell people that they have trauma they will absolutely be affected by whatever the thing is I'm saying that happen so I gave the extreme example last time but it's probably worth repeating so you're 14-year-old girl and you all of a sudden have this man you don't know and he has sex with you he's 35 years old traumatic I think most people would be like that's a traumatic experience it was also just the Middle Ages

and you Might actually be a wonderful daughter doing her Duty because that's when they got married and they would be married to men who are significantly older for alliances for their family were they traumatized or was that just like actually the they were actually being a good daughter doing their Duty as a as a daughter of their family so there's literally things that we can state with facts this happened a 35-year-old man Had sex with someone that he had never seen before and that she had never seen him and she was 14 years old that

happened everything else we do is the narrative we create around it and I use that extreme example which everyone like you know pulls away when I say that but it's like you have to use the extremes to make the point and so like if that can be both Duty in one setting and horribly traumatic in another then it means that the narrative is the thing That gives all the power I think it's context and our times have changed since then where now acceptable or now it's not now it's accept so just just everybody know Graham

that that's acceptable there you go back then it was not acceptable back back then fuing mixing this [ __ ] hold on but now it's a whole different thing now it's not acceptable back then it was and I I think I think the the context has changed in society there's a lot of Things that are different today that were normalized back then it doesn't make it necessarily okay but but it's the surrounding context my exact point is that if you have something bad that happens another human at a different time period might have experienced that

same thing and so the only reason that you choose to get upset about it and then get into a hyperlearning phase about something good or bad is because you were told To well it could also be in in context of what's happening around you where if it's like if everyone else is doing it around you if you're you now today you're the outlier whereas maybe back then you were fitting in with everyone else who's also that's just narrative like I'm saying as a as a tool so for everybody who's listening to this yeah if you

have something bad happen you can think I will subscribe to the traumatic experience that my counselor Has told me that I have gone through and they've labeled this thing and then I get to have I just get to keep this problem with me forever whenever I go into new relationship say oh I I I was traumatized earlier like I have a hard time trusting people because of this reason that I'm making up right now okay cool or something happened oh okay moving on like it just it just it just doesn't Matter it just doesn't matter

like creating the label that you are now this way because is the problem not the thing that's the problem is the label that people describe to whatever circumstance like um and you can the more you you'll start to note it like the more tuned to this you get the more you see it all the time people are like I'm the type of person who I am a right I'm a neat freak okay so you have this label that you've described to yourself Now does that serve you in some way and like in the beginning of

every relationship like you're single now you're dating right so girls like you know or you'll probably come in and be like I'm the type of person who does this this and this and I am this way like you just give your like here are all my labels but like when if you didn't do any of that you're like I do things like sometimes I do these things Other times I don't I mean a practical sense I feel like it does it is important to have some of those belief statements right would you agree with that

if they serve you if they serve you so you're belief statements like I am somebody who likes to keep my room clean sure that is a fine belief statement if it serves you it's a good thing but if it's like I am lazy I am worthless I am unmotivated I'm not funny people don't like me stuff like that I'm not Confident because my mom didn't tell me enough when I was a kid one eliminate the because part because you don't know that there's a hundred other things that could happen that made you not motivated you

just pick that one out of out of thin air like here's the reason like you don't know so you really do not believe in Psychotherapy no then the premise of it right well my understanding is like you are who you are today because of these well you do What you've been rewarded for doing in the past and you avoid things you've been punished for in the past that I absolutely agree with to the death but don't you believe even as a child let's say you could be shaped by your parents so let's just say you're

told by your parents you are worthless you can never do anything like that's hard to break I think as an adult I don't disagree with the fact that they're hard to break I'm just saying you choose to believe it There's a choice could it also that your brain is wired in such a way that the the neural Pathways all point to you being worthless and you're told that you will amount to nothing and it's so ingrained that when you become an adult it's just like these are patterns that are really difficult to break because you've

been told your entire life and you believe one thing and shattering all of that takes a lot of work so to anyone who has That that Paradigm you're right it's not your fault you're never going to be successful now what okay well maybe I can do something about it okay great you know what I mean like there's like there's no there's like there's no benefit you know what I mean like if someone like because I I get q&as every once in a while and someone's like can't grow my business because of my kids right like

they take Up all my time and it's just impossible for me to do the things uh so what would you tell me I say you're right you're never going to be successful and it's not your fault and then you can just watch the person just wrie they're just like well I mean and I'm like what you're going to fight me on the fact that you're going to be successful great the fighter showed up so what are we what are we talking about do you want my Permission to not be successful or do you want to

accept that you're not going to be like what do you want they're like well okay it's like well yeah there's your answer like whatever reason you're giving yourself is the very reason you should do the thing like if your mom was mean as [ __ ] to you your entire life and she told you were worthless that's a great reason to be successful there's just as many people who've had terrible ubreak who became successful why Wouldn't you tell that person who says have kids I can't be you know give the business the time it needs

why wouldn't you tell that person practically well you're going to have to structure your day better you're going to have to sacrifice some time with your kids you're going to have to wake up a little earlier it's going to suck in the beginning you'll get used to it why not go in with that approach because I think that person is looking for permission I Think they're looking for an excuse that's reasonable that protects their ego I don't think so I think sometimes people just need to be told what to do maybe they they might know

what the answer is but if you tell them what the answer is they'll do it and they'll believe it because you're the one telling them right well this person was saying I I'm not going to be Su like in the premise I saying this person saying I'm not going to be successful here's my Excuse tell me it's okay that I have this excuse and I say you're right it's not your fault you're never going to win and then all of a sudden their whole psyche changes because they want to contrast they want to rebel against

that and they're like what do you mean I mean I'm totally like right cool so you agree so you are going to win so what are we talking about right it's like it's it's just this back and forth that people always Rebel um any I just find I just Find that that context interesting because a lot of times if you actually just like put a knife in and just twist and say sure let's take it to the Natural land you'll never win okay how do you feel now right so then you making all of that

Fanfare about all these reasons why it's Justified that you won't win how does that serve you it doesn't so you might as well act as though it didn't matter anyways and do the stuff that is required just to be Clear for everybody like I share the stuff that work for me if if what you're doing is working for you then I love you keep crushing it you know what I mean like I I just share this stuff because people ask you know they're like how did you do this by this time or whatever and I

share my World Views and they're relatively contrary a lot a lot of people believe as little as I believe about anything really um there are a few things that I absolutely believe through And through and then the everything else for the most part I feel is noise and that has helped me a lot because um it has gotten me out of like you know 99% of the well 99 who knows but like a a vast majority of the content that I see on the internet is there's a lot of fluff there's a lot of just

like just BS a lot of people giving advice that have never done the thing that they're trying to give advice on um and so it's like when people talk about like you know Energy and manifesting and you know psychology and affirmations and all the these things it's like even even this the statement like have you heard B do have you heard that it's like a pretty big in like the personal development St if it's like be the certain way so you do the things to get what you want or have the thing right and it

has you have to be the person first then you can to do the things to have the thing right that's like being everyone's like be do Have I think it's complete [ __ ] because being is a function of doing if we were to say who is this person we would describe their identity by the things they do like is a carpenter he's into these things he does he takes these actions that is what creates his identity how we describe it so if being is a function of doing then we can just cut being out

right so it's just doing and then have but if the having comes from the doing then that's an after Effect that's an outcome not the thing that created it and so the doing creates the having and so you can cut out the have and so it just comes down to doing and so we don't need to like obsess about like am I a good person am I a bad person am I villain am I an [ __ ] that was the point that we were making at the very beginning of this is like maybe you

are an [ __ ] maybe you are a loser you can still do the stuff to win and win anyways if Graham identified as a loser Tomorrow like truly through his being identified as a loser and still made the same video and posted it it would still crush and for me that's actually given me a lot of shelter and hard times which is like I don't need to be the best whatever and I don't need need to be in a great mood I don't need to identify as like some shiny night hero but I can

still run these ads or make these calls or do these Outreach attempts or make this Partnership deal and I will still get the end result and to me that is very reassuring because it puts a lot more under my control do you think that you would do better in that case if you're feeling bad if you were feeling better about yourself that you would have a better result if the exact same activity was done no yes if the number of if I send the same hundred emails to the same exact people Whether I'm in bad

mood or good mood the same response rates going to come back if you feel like you're in a really great mood don't you feel like you could craft those emails in such a way that's maybe 1% better and I'm talking about if we just stick to what the doing is because then at that point it's like sure great we shifted to do it but like the doing itself can just be done and I like that a lot because for people who are in hard times it's like you can you Don't have to feel confident to

do [ __ ] you can still get the result for it like you don't need to be confident to go up to the girl just go for the girl and not be confident and still ask her out basically what I'm trying to prevent against is the person who's waiting to be in a good mood to work because that sometimes that good mood never comes yeah but the work still needs doing for people who are looking to get started what do you think is the best business For people to get into right now I think the

best business for someone to start if they've never started a business before is something that they already have tangential experience with and so usually you have parents friends family first jobs that you have some industry knowledge so if you look at like y combinator for example they look for Founders who have lived with the problem or Andor have industry experience and so if you have both of those things like The likelihood that you will be successful with the Endeavor that you're going in is significantly higher because there's just a lot of there's a lot of

there's a huge learning curve to entering any new industry and if you can just pay down some of that ignorance tax even if the opportunity vehicle isn't the perfect one you will still have a significantly higher likelihood of winning and one of the big fallacies of your first business is that it's going To be your last business and it almost never is and so the idea is like it's much more valuable to get started on something that you a higher likely of success on so that you can get some faster rewards for the behavior of

getting into business and then from there get some resources get some skills and then you can have a better perspective from which to make a jump or a decision on what to do next and at least that's that's how I that's you Know my two sons on it yeah we were at the gym Jack and I uh the other day and actually two people came us up to us and they said that they love the podcast that we did together the first one I think that's how they found the podcast but that was their both

people separate ref that podcast like and one person said when you going to have horos back on I said well coincidence you know he's coming like the next week they had a question for you that I told them I Would ask you so if you ever see me in person you want to have me ask Alex Orosi something you just ask uh he was a W2 employee okay and he says he really likes your content and wants to know your advice to people who aren't selling anything sure but they're an employee and they want to

make more money they want to get better at what they're doing how could they apply your advice to them you have to figure out how your job directly ties to revenue in the business And if you don't know ask like fundamentally if you don't know how your job makes the business money then ask and then once you understand how you directly tie to money then drive towards that because like fundamentally every position in the business makes the business more money if I mean if the job is well-designed otherwise why are you there right I mean

even if you're like I'm a Frontline customer service rep it's like okay well how do you like if I Had to ask that person like how do you make the business money the answer is is if I do a good job people will come back and buy again if I do a good job we'll have a lower percentage of people who will refund if I do a good job the business will be able to command higher prices off of Word of Mouth in the future like these are the things that you can explain and say

like okay well then if those are the things that drive Revenue then I'm going to try and focus On those things and then you can ask your boss and this is a great question is what would it take for me to make this it's not saying I need to make that it's just asking them to solve the problem like what would it take for me to earn that and then they can give you an objective metric now your boss might might not be high enough and then you say cool can you ask the person above

you and um by doing it that way you're also being clear like I want to make the Business more money what would it take for and end in doing so I would like a small percentage of the increase that I'm able to bring like what would it take and I think that's a great way to have that conversation Leila my wife also makes tons of content for like how to ask for Rises how to negotiate that stuff on her Channel as a side note when she's more knowledgeable than I am about I do think though

a lot of careers out there will never give you that Opportunity you say I want to you know make more money or I want to do more they're gonna you get back get back to your desk just focus you just focus on that and there aren't really those opportunities out there in those situations would you recommend looking for work elsewhere I think I think um small businesses are a good opportunity for that stuff so if you're like in a massive Corporation um you can quickly cap out and get like lost in the shuffle If it's

this massive org and so I think it makes sense to go get uh basically a stamp of approval from maybe a name brand company that you can then leverage into a smaller business that you'll have a lot more impact a lot more opportunity for growth most entrepreneurs are far more receptive to anyone who says I will help you make more money uh and so um again if you can change your environment you'll often be able to change your behavior um by the way I meant to ask This earlier I noticed uh we had a bit

of a problem actually was on Instagram yeah and I noce you're not following me back on Instagram oh [ __ ] yeah uh so following a lot of as something bad yeah what do you have to say about that I think it's terrible I only follow comedy and philosophy accounts for the most part comedy and philosophy accounts yeah the only two truth tellers and what do you what do you get from those accounts by watching I enjoy it yeah both give me context on life some make me laugh some make me think and who are

your who are your favorite comedians oh man I have so many I I mean I follow a lot of comedians like I B I basically follow any comedian I see on my Newsfeed who makes comedy regular like if I click over their page and theyve got like one comedy video and a bunch of like not videos then I I won't follow them but if they make regular Comedy clips I will Almost guaranteed follow them no matter how big they are I like Andrew Schultz Whitney Cummings uh Sam moral Mark Norman I like uh nimas Matt

R has obviously been up yeah he's he's great um just I mean honest there's so many uh Bill Burr uh Nate bar baratti um there's so many I'm just like naming names off the top like I like I like a lot of I mean if there comedy I like it yeah do you like um nor McDonald's comedy yeah I love nor I mean I I'm a I'm a cheap date When it comes to Comedy like basically the only thing I don't like is like lazy comedy just like uh like uh crude comedy for the sake

of being crude like that stuff I I'm not like I don't think like theovon is great a great example not not of that he's also another great comedian um and yeah that's that's uh that's like that's I yeah I I really like comedy a lot and we like live shows do you listen to Comedy podcast ever uh I don't listen to Comedy podcast I watch Their routines and I go to shows and I watch their Clips yeah the comedy podcasts are hilarious I think the podcast 20 times better than oh Tom sigura bur Cher like

I mean there's a ton of I mean there's so many I think big J ois small but I actually really love his stuff um there's so many yeah I prefer the podcast I prefer the podcast interesting good to know I don't actually just don't listen to podcasts in general I'm not a podcaster I think Like the the candid comedy in a podcast is 10 times is better than rehear superal yeah cuz they have to like the bid has to be funny every time in every single place with a cold audience but like if you're warmed

up with like things that got said earlier and it's like relevant to the moment like they can absolutely be you know hilarious uh but no I I I just don't I don't I don't listen to podcasts ever I listen to Elon Musk every time it goes on program okay But I watch it really I watch so what sort of media do you consume Twitter or X whatever I can that's that's my most active platform that's the one that I'm on like by far the most is it you that tweets yeah 100% it's me on every

tweet that's you everything everything's me I manage everything and what philosophy uh content do you like to consume are there certain people that are practicing phos so it's the ancient anybody who's dead if you're dead I like it that's the way That you get validity for well I mean I I mean the you know epicus senica like some of the stoics I mean I like those guys um and you have some of the dark you got dooi and some of the some the other if they're dead though how do they post good question what I

think it's like excerpts from trying to make a joke is stupid fair enough good good gra you should be comedian maybe he'll follow you then classic sh classic shoot you Know don't me shwi for context guys I got this haircut this morning and Graham said I look like Dwight Sho off the rip off the rip he didn't even say like nice haircut is like you know it's not like a compliment sandwich it was just like a straight do you have any glasses I am not putting on glasses it would actually be dude if you had

a if you had a tie on in like a slightly grayish brown suit you'd slay it thank you you think I just walk Around on the strip I just get approached by women every well people would be trying to take pictures with you they'd be like oh my God I just really don't think I look like white TR that much but but maybe I could be maybe I could be wrong maybe I should put throw on a hat or something I guess I think you should change your Tinder profile to this like put the suit

on put the glasses on and just say like here's the thing if you own it it's attractive And I learned this from you you said that one time you were in the car with some frat brother and the Frat brother was like making out with some girl in the back of the car and he was like what was it chewing tobacco or something at the same time you're like dude how is she not disgusted by you right now and he was just like cuz I don't care which for me like I still think about that

to this you could be owning the wrong thing well I don't I actually I will counter The fact I think you can own whatever you want yeah I think you can own whatever you want there's some some things that shouldn't be worth owning I think it's the confidence well sure if you're a serial killer okay sorry mute that part but like if you do that then then chances are you're probably not going to be able to get a imagine you owning being an incel you know like I'm I'm owning it like that's not if you

owned it that's a good point that's a Really good point well so I think coko Chanel said uh fashion is whatever you can get away with and I kind of just like that as a andway as as one of the you know most fashionable women of all time like icons I feel like she has a good perspective on like what fashion is and it's just whatever you can get away with and I like that that's a good point I feel like as modern fashion you look at it and you're like like this person looks like

an animal they don't even Look like human at that point Runway shows I don't get what the point of these Runway shows is at all it's actually a money thing uh so the I only know this because my wife buys lots of expensive things um so those Runway so most many of the outfits there are made to look high fashioned and then the people who are in attendance there it's like a a huge honor to be like invited by like Stella McCartney or Koko Chanel or whoever to or Gucci to attend the Runway show like

it's a like usually you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to get invited to one of those shows and it's usually like on their clothing yeah yeah it's like 20 people a year get invited hand selected across the whole nation to get invited as like consumers and then while you're there uh they'll parade these you know people around and then you're somewhat expected to bid on the actual outfits themselves the outfits are so atrocious I mean and actually wear that out to like Walmart no one you would never wear these things

you'd be amazed you'd be amazed and sometimes it's not the whole outfit sometimes it's a piece of it or it's a hat or or or a blouse or whatever um but like they'll be like they'll be like $50,000 $100,000 dresses but to me it seems like the ugliest clothing that they could get away with I to me it seems like a social experiment like how Wild social experiment you guys are Being film there's a camera there there's a camera there I'm waiting for the joke to come like 20 years later because I've seen some of

these things with like shoes with a goldfish in them like it's stupid oh there's like these necklaces pendant things with a turtle inside of it it's so s Turtle yeah like a baby turtle are you serious I've seen that for it's very sad how was but it's just Buttle well for like 24 hours maybe I me Think about the life it gets the lead I mean the comparison is just like it's just floating around water all day here it like gets to travel the world it gets to like hang out with I bet if you

asked the turtle it would probably say it preferred that too right I I I saw this video and it was someone who did a social experiment where they created like this new hip store where they got like I think it was like H&M and like cheap but it's from Payless shoe store And then all these people came and they started blogging about it and like oh my God this is so cute this is amazing but it's all just cheap yeah they bought it was like $500 $700 uh shoes and they just only used P shoes

and had people review them afterwards the influencers they're like by the way well really goes to show you how important marketing is if you just brand yeah that's all it is the you you have no idea yeah like like this shirt oh my God how much do you Think how much do you think this shirt very nice very much gu how much much I'm guessing this shirt right here I can tell based off the material Alone 7 $300 what do you think it is I haven't felt it give it a little touch man you can

feel you can feel it if you want to that feels like old Lulu I'm gonna go I'm gonna go uh 60 $60 yeah no it's Tom Ford oh is it really that I didn't know you were expensive clothing it's free it's free yeah not I'm not spending money Tom no oh my gosh no that would be amazing though J Jason and Brett oppenheim give me their clothing and they wear uh they they had the broke used opheim yeah so they buy some of the nicest stuff but you know over time it'll shrink so when it

shrinks it no longer fits them but it fits me perfectly so I get all their handy Downs yeah must be nice so I have a whole wardrobe of almost exclusively Tom Ford and Dior well I buy brand new Tank tops I'll just like let the record show how many times you wear them before you toss um honestly I don't know you said that your wife Leila has very expensive taste does this ever bother you if she was like Alex I want to buy a $50,000 purse you'd be like for Alex it's pennies it's like it's

you wouldn't care no she does that like no she does she does whatever she wants but not a single part of you I also she earns her own like we do this together but it's a Joint thing right like exactly so I mean I spend money on different like yeah I spend money on stuff I mean I spend money on like gym equipment that's like what I like that's like the one thing that I spend money how much more new equipment like they're not coming out with new machines every month right I mean they do

come up with new machine they do yeah for sure yeah every month is like it's like a fashion is it inside your apartment no so we just bought the Uh the old UFC headquarters yeah and so there's a there's a huge huge chunk of space oh um so we're yeah we're making a massive gym there so that'll probably cost like I don't know 450 Grand all in but like so it's like how many purses could she have probably a lot you know so but like I just buy you know my stuff's a little chunkier than

hers is but like like Leila Leila wanted to have nice things her whole life and so we have the Ability to do that so why should I like what do I gain by depriving her of that it's not like it puts us in any kind of different financial situation than we are now like if if if if her spending in any way materially affected our goals she wouldn't do it like she's only done that when it basically doesn't affect us in any real way and so like why would I like why would I stop her

from doing that like why why have the money to begin with have you ever thought of the Reason why she wants the expensive things and why she wants to I don't think she knows the answer either who knows like we like when people ask why we just guess and answer and we answer with things that we've answered in the past that people have given us approval for so it's like why are you so motivated Alex I could be like my father never gave me enough approval or I could say my mother didn't pay enough attention

to me I could say I had a Teacher who encouraged me early on or i' spoke once in class and I did a good job and I really wanted to do more of that like I could make up hundred different reasons but all we know is that I do these things and I think just erasing the why and the because um it just makes the life a lot easier because you don't have to you don't have to deal with it so it's like my my the two things that I've been focused a lot on uh

is like elimination of should which I think I Talked a lot about on one of the the first podcast that we did together and I'd say like my focus right now is kind of elimination of why and because because we don't know you have no idea like I don't know like I think he was it's like when someone tries to guess your intention it's like you don't know you don't know why I said that and the real reason I don't know why I said that we just know that I said it and just focus on

that And that's just been easier in terms of like communicating with other people managing relationships even persuasion it's like trying to trying to be like you did this be you don't know stick to what you can observe and that's just made my life a lot easier it appears like it's a part of human nature to come up with all of these extra details problems justifications Etc explanations for certain things why is in our nature to continually do this and complicate Things when you when you explain things it's just so simple I have no idea I

know that we do it I don't know why that is so unfair that is I mean it's a perfect why is it unfair no it's a it's a great answer no it's a great answer it's a great it's like I can make something up if you want but like it'll just be made up yeah and and to be fair most people will just make up qu you know answers to questions of like why yeah and and you know and it's a hard Bounce for me cuz sometimes I get on podcast and like the more strict

I am and kind of to a certain degree like what mood I'm in I might answer very much more strictly on that but it can sometimes make for a more you know boring uh podcast experience because people are like fine so we don't know anything I'm like yeah exactly yeah it's interesting for me to for you to go from like Leila wants and has all these nice things to you where you're just like I'm Just going to get down to the basics why do I want this do I really need it no it seems like

Leela's very much an opposite in that she'll just say I want it I don't need think about why I want it what this means I just want it I'm not going to put any more effort into that there was a boat that big yacht that had a name on it that I really liked and it was uh don't analyze your pleasures and uh I just I just like she knows that she likes it and I like that She likes it and like what what is wrong with that like the only reason that someone would have

any objection to that is simply because of the price tag associated with it if she liked buying $1 clothes no one would have any issue with it it's just because it's expensive but that's based on their understanding of expensive not necessarily my context even if it was even if I had made the exact same amount of money as whoever would be judging me for judging Leila For for buying clothing like that why do you care how I spend my money yeah spend yours your way because basically them you know expressing that is expressing their preference

that I would live they they would prefer that I live the way they live their lives sure but like why don't you just keep living your life the way you prefer and I'll keep living my life the way I prefer I don't prefer that you live your wife a different live your life a different Live your wife yeah yeah two want okay yeah if there's like that's my like no sh elimination of should elimination of why and because like that's that's my that would be my you know presidential campaign no shs no wise and no

because do you think if you were president that you could do a better job or you could do a great job no I think I would do a horrible job you think so I don't know I heard this question I heard this question online and everyone's like Saying oh you should ask people this question to see what they say I don't know I don't I have no I have no aspirations or desires um I have um I actually had a conversation this morning about that uh someone's like man if you like could talk about politics

you would go so much wider I don't have interest like I've never been interested in politics like I I don't follow the news I like again the only thing that I consume is something as it relates to How we make money and how we run our businesses that is the only thing that like I'll consume anything tangentially to that and that's it like if I was in healthcare I'd probably be looking more about like what if I was like getting into like HRT like hormone replacement therapy if as as an industry if I want to

get into then I'd be looking at legislation that's pened that might make some of our you know reclassify some of the drugs that we Might be selling or something like that like I would be that would be something that would be interesting but it wasn't because of the politics I would just be interested because of the economics so one I I don't have interest second is that I'm not very knowledgeable about it and those kind of go hand inand but like if I were to be someone to ask me a political question I don't have

any skill and interest yeah I have I have no knowledge on that and and if I made a Point uh people probably have an excellent Counterpoint and they'd be like what do you think about that I'd be like you're probably right I I don't spend time on this like so I I feel like I would be making an ignorant uh uh I'd be giving ignorant advice and if I were to do anything it would just be like from first principles and I'm sure there's many things that get in the way of that from like a

legislative perspective and whatnot and so I focus On the things that I am good at and that I enjoy is there anything you're unhappy about I would say I have this the same the same complaints that any entrepreneur would which is like I always want things to happen faster um but like I also realize that and and try to adjust my expectations appropriately and talk to Solomon and be like what did you expect if I were to give me advice I'd be like you're doing you know you're doing fine and you're it's taking it's Actually

happening faster than you originally thought it was going to happen so like are you really just readjusting your expectations so that you can be dissatisfied well that sounds silly um but uh no I'm not I'm like honestly I'm I like my life it's weird just I mean like it's it's odd nowadays to just be like I like my life like I I I've spent a lot of effort to create an environment uh with people that I enjoy doing things that I enjoy uh are there Things day-to-day that come up that are stressors of course like

that's you know any business anything you do has overhead but um I I like what I do every day and um I think I'm pretty good at it and that brings me a lot of enjoyment when you wake up you'd say the off the rip emotion that you feel is tired how sleep do you get oh I mean I I I if I get eight I can like cure cancer so like I'm you know I try to like I got Two I got two eight hour sleeps in a row uh this last week and I

was like I could literally repaint the Mona Lisa right now like I felt so good what occupies that time that would inhibit you to get eight hours nothing inhibits me from getting eight hours I just wake up earlier that's more that's like more often would happen oh really yeah I I I haven't put alarm yeah I haven't put an alarm on in how do you do that forever upon first wake up do you get up or do You sometimes think I try if I can if I can go back to sleep I will but I

I mean there's a lot of things I want to do and so like I get excited yeah yeah yeah I mean like I'll be physically tired but like I'm excited mentally like my brain will turn on and I'm like o that there's all these things I want to do I mean there was a time when I um I had uh one of of those rings that like did your sleep stuff and I got I got more annoyed about the the ring why than cuz I Because in this in this this maybe an indication of how

much I've changed over time um I was 22 the last time I did that so 12 years ago um but I I got so competitive with myself uh to try and like beat my last night's PR that I would like stress about trying like I would like not move so that it wouldn't like wake the ring up to think that I was sleeping you know what I mean and then I was like I'm sleeping worse now that I have this ring on so I like [ __ ] You know and um if anything I'd wake

up the next day and get me a reason why like the day would like it would tell me if I was going to have a good or bad day and I was like well that's silly um because I've had plenty of days that have been very little sleep and great days and I've had days where upgr cuz I have the aura ring and I use it a lot and I do say that when I see in the morning that says like you did not get a good night of rest be careful today it Does kind

of put me in a mood where I'm like oh crap yeah yeah it's telling me I got to be careful I wouldn't have even thought about that had it not been now planted in my mind that maybe I'm going to be a little slower today well that's like the Superstition stuff that I've talked about where it's like um Dr cashy a good buddy of mine uh he says he defines a scam as something that if you remove it uh your function gets worse and so it's like Bas basically we create These crutches so it's like

oh man if I don't have my green juice in the morning like I feel if I feel terrible but then after a while you start to be able to only take the green shoes just to feel normal well then if I take the green juo away then I feel bad well then that's a scam like that doesn't it doesn't actually do anything it's it's it's not doesn't work and so I I just I'm I'm super cautious and like to your point about like creating the very earlier It's like I I just really try not to

be superstitious about anything because I want I want to have as many the controllables under my control as I can um and if I like I love the idea of competing at somebody who has a million crutches it's like you just knock one of them out and they're they're screwed like like if my competitor like oh if I if I don't have eight hours of sleep I'm a bear it's like well can't wait for you to have one bad night's sleep and then I'll just win that day because I don't mind having a short night

sleep and still working like I work fine so anyways all that to say um sometimes I sleep shorter and sometimes I sleep longer I sleep as long as I can with Leila I know we kind of like alluded to this in like previous conversations a lot about Lea always about Le I'm sorry I'm sorry she you got an interest here what we talking she's interesting okay you guys live I'm sure incredibly Challenging incredibly busy lives and maintaining a relationship I know we've talked about this before but maintaining a relationship in that environment can be incredibly

challenging and you said last time that you have an algorithm like you have logic that determines the success of your relationship with Ila and if something isn't fitting then you need to change the inputs sure I'm wondering not when is the last time this has happened because I'm not gonna ask That question last night Jack the answer right before I got here like twice has it and then once and then once again right after has it continued to serve you to see it as an algorithm cuz I like to think that love is this thing

that it's more of like a n describable nondescript thing that kind of just like occurs between two people and it's not so like algorithmic and equational you know what I mean well I think just for the Audience sake it's not like I have this uh Excel sheet at home of like okay three hugs equals you know like a a kiss or you know what I mean I don't have like one Chanel bag yeah one Chanel bag equals two good days you know whatever you know um well I would say this which is that if you

feel like it is that ephemeral thing that's so hard to capture and so hard to describe like i' would be like good luck finding it and honestly I think the big difficulty with Uh love and marriages in general is that everything's n equals one so even like like my relationship with Lea is unique in that I am one of one and she's one of one and together like like I've seen and you probably have two I've seen like 60e marriages you know people 90 in their 90s very different Dynamics with all of them and like

you have you guys have unique partnership for this podcast like and everybody else has unique Dynamics for their partnership and we know what Has worked for them I share what has worked for me if some of those things help other people awesome if they don't then ignore them you know um both of us tend to be very uh agreement oriented meaning neither of us like to be controlled uh both of us have a lot of uh agency like we like to make our own decisions and kind of operate freely and so like how do you

how do you get two people together that are really strongly independent um we make agreements and Like these are like I agree to I agree to these things you agree to these things and like as long as that works for us then we don't change the agreement it's worked great and if we if something comes up then it's like hey let's revisit this and if it makes sense then we we revisit it and that has worked really well because we have exceedingly clear expectations of one another uh in terms of like what we're going to

do and what we're not going to Do and and that has worked really well and there's always resolve between these disagreements yeah eventually I mean pretty quickly usually yeah we don't argue much do you have some other like Silver Lining that kind of not silver lining but like other thing that arbitrates these disagreements between you and her maybe some fundamental agreements that you made off you know right in the beginning that you can then use as rules to decide current Disagreements well I think fundamentally Lea and I also both believe that love is conditional not

unconditional and so even the idea of marriage for us has been based on agreements which is like if there were time in the future where Lila no longer wanted to do the things that I want to do then we're not I would not hold her to her commitment to be with me because it was contingent on that we want these same things and so it's like similar Mission similar values Similar interests like if you if you want to go to the same place and get the same way values and you know what you spend your

time on in between interests is aligned then you'll probably be okay and I think the problem is that a lot of people this is my you know one man's two cense is a lot of people look for are are are actively looking for hookups and then thinking hookups will turn into life partners and wives and spouses but if you were to look for a hookup you Would look for a very different thing than you would for a spouse and so expecting one to become the other I don't know if that's the best the best frame

this has worked for us because we are that way now there are there are people that I know who have amazing relationships where one is completely subservient to the other and that works for them I really enjoy our relationship because I get tremendous utility from Lea like she she serves me in a lot of Ways um more than I would say most men get from their spouses at least businessmen you know what I mean who are like it's very it's not common at all for a wife to be even close to lela's level I mean

sometimes they're like oh yeah she's like the secretary in the business and sometimes they over tile the person to make her make her feel better or whatever but like that's I would say more of the norm if at all in the business like Leila absolutely runs The business she is CEO period I'm like off to the side and I like think of good things every once in a while like she's the one who runs everything and like only the people inside of our company can actually like appreciate that and I will still always get the

credit because I am who I am and I look the way I look and I talk the way I talk but like she's really the one that does it and so I get a ton out of that and that this is how it has worked for us like Lila in every Other relationship in her life was always the dominant one like because most guys will fold to Ila she's in incredibly strong wed it's like it's I mean it's my belief at least if you if you enjoy a male female Dynamic you just need it like

if you are a strong woman You' seen a more strong man what sort of personal uh contentions do you have between the two of you because it seems like everything is really just business oriented yeah I Mean we we we we talk about business all day that's what we do yeah um I would say that the busier we are with business the more we will try and carve out time to not be business if things are more like normal Pace we don't really need to carve the time out the time kind of happens on its

own and so you know i' I've seen you know clips and stuff where people say like you have to have a date night once a week and you can't talk about business and like people like just Like throwing these rules out I just hate all of that um like if we feel like we need to like reconnect because it's like we're a little bit too distant in terms of like hey I feel like I haven't seen you in a week then like let's go dinner let's let's take some time and let's just hang out and

catch up I mean sometimes the e-obs like I feel like I've been with you all day like I'm going to get some space go to the gym hang out you know Get some food with some guys and like I'll be back and so I think we just managed that and I think um especially especially in like the world of remote work um I actually think that uh in my opinion uh people spend too much time together I think I need I think this is eser p but I think you need to create space to be

missed like there's probably there's no time where like I'm more excited to see Lea than a time that I haven't seen her Motivation is the equal opposite of deprivation if I haven't seen her one I'm deprived of Lea I'm more motivated to see her I've seen her a ton then I'm probably less motivated to see her so you think a lot of times in relationships people could be spending too much time together absolutely nowadays for sure they live in the same house they they literally spend all day together like I don't think that's I don't

think that's at least normal from How we kind of came I think you need two experiences to come together and then you can do you have something to talk about because otherwise if you if you've had the same experiences all day for weeks it's like what do you talk about a certain point yeah how was your day I don't know I was there like yeah we have nothing else to say so like I think so like and when we when we figured this out for our relationship it was still like two or three years in

um we Actively just like created a ton of space we worked on opposite sides of the house we didn't attend I came off the meetings that she was on and so like at the end of the day I was like oh oh you met with John today how is that she's like oh this is what this happened I was like oh and you met with that vendor who's doing this thing she's like yeah and this is where we negotiate what do you think about this and you know like blah and then then I go through

my Calendar and like literally we still to this day do that is at the end of the day we go for a walk 45 minutes I take out my phone she takes out her phone we go through our calendars and we just literally download like how was your day how was my day like what what are the what are the things that we're you know working on and moving forward and that's how we kind of like resync up um and then after that we just we're we're kind of husband and wife the the rest of

the Day what was the logic behind buying that UFC building that's dopee it's pretty yeah it's a lot it's a lot of space but they go from someone who's kind of working from home remotely to getting a full office space that's massive yeah yeah yeah yeah um how many square feet was that it was like 12,000 square feet something it's three floors of 12 it's 36 36,000 Square Fe yeah it's 12 12 12 yeah it's it's part of the part of the grand plan part of the grand plan Of uh of what what what I'm

investing in um so we're we're investing heavily in media um and so that's going to have a ton of Studios inside of it that're we're actively building out right now a ton of different sets for um different types of content that we want to be putting out uh with higher quality and higher frequency uh in the future and so that's that's what you know that's that's what I'm that's what I'm building towards and so uh having a place where All of my team could sync up and um I could I could attract talent to come

you know here to Vegas is is kind of what we were what we were shooting for so what's what's the grand plan with with content are you trying to like take people under the horos brand no I actually I'm actually going to do more uh me personally okay um and Lila and just we're we're it's more that we're going to we're going to be facilitating more types of content Rather than more talking ads um because as much as like my quote brand has grown um that's actually still been the result of like a half day

a week um or every other week of actual filming and the rest of it is just the the the awesome team that we have that knows how to cut distributed repurpose uh content across different platforms so um but I actually want to increase inputs um into the machine and uh in order to do that I I thought it would make sense to to have To make this type of investment yeah but 36,000 Square F feet yeah well I want a massive gym I want a massive gym so that's like floor one basically a whole floor

12,000 sare feet of gym that makes no sense 12,000 squ feet a big commercial gym well half the bottom the bottom floor half is parking but there's no but there's there going to be a commercial half yeah 100% yeah but still 6,000 square F feet yeah gym yeah there's no way there's enough machines I I barely can fit anything in there how I I like equipment I'm a I'm a connoisseur I have I'm an AIC a of gym equipment but I feel like you could probably get 99% of the same result sure with 2,000 this

is this isn't a utility question this is all this is all uh what Alex wants this is this is my purses in my in my Coco Chanel like she could have a plastic bag and carry her [ __ ] but like she wants a Chanel like I could just have one shoulder Press but there's three different brands that make different ones that I like for different reasons all right there is one question I have um there's a space in that building I think where there's one of those like roll up things that goes into a

space yeah what what's your purpose with that that's just parking that's the bottom floor is half is uh is is I thought there's but there's one where it's kind of like a bit of a it looks like a bit of a warehouse yeah It's there's the roll up door that's the whole that's the bottom floor yeah there's the roll up and then you've got all the parking and then I mean it has all the pillars what would it take for the iced coffee hour to be able to you know get an office space in there

got to take it up with Ila Lea said that she would she probably said she'd do it for free that's what she said don't ask her don't ask her but she said as long here' already prepared it No I'm I'm stoked about it but to answer you the question um like I want to I want to there's I don't want to spoil anything but we have a bunch of new shows that we're going to be putting out new types of content um um new new characters that we're going to be bringing in uh to the

content just a lot like a lot of really cool stuff like I was super inspired when I went out to St Dave Dave Ramsey and his whole setup really yeah yeah what was it what was it Like for meeting Dave Ramsey it was great Dave I mean Dave was exactly the same you know I mean as as I expected him to be I mean my whole interview if you I don't know if you saw it was uh was all about business yeah like I just want because like he doesn't he always talks about personal finances

and savings he kind of has his like his buzz his buzz things and I wanted to like try and avoid those to get to like how how does Ramsey Solutions work and kind of Like what what were some of the Strategic decisions that he made that that led him to there um the thing that I find really interesting is that he has somehow managed to have an education and information business without being seen as a scam and I find like think about anybody else who sells a course coaching events and an app like that's that's

like the prototypical every other coach whatever Guru out there and somehow he managed to do that and build a $300 Million a year uh business from basically the same ingredients and I was like what I wanted to really get close to like what made it different for Dave versus everybody else and so I think I think there's two main things this is my two cents so Dave if you ever see this this my thoughts um one is that the promise that he was making was something that is absolutely believable no one could fight which is

that if you spend less money you will have more left over It's very different than most other promises which is our make money which is like if you if you do this thing then you make extra $2,000 a month or whatever it is it's like if you make 5,000 and you save a th000 you have a thousand left over there's just no one can fight you right and I think that really protects him from a from a promises perspective yeah the other side is that he absolutely focuses on brand above everything and his reputation and

So like an indication of that is that he does the biggest slice of Revenue that he has is Media like everybody else just like right hooks the [ __ ] out of Their audience at all times and so like they couldn't even sell media places media media spots on their own if they wanted to because they have like no Goodwill in their audience M but he still deposits so much more Goodwill provides so much more value at scale um that he's able to make you know 10 million a month just on Just on media alone

he shared that on the podcast so I don't mind sharing it um and then uh yeah so there those are those are the two the two big ones and then the Third Kind of bonus takeaway that I had was uh they run a lot more events than I thought they did which I thought was pretty interesting they run event every week I was like huh I think that's isn't that a newer I don't know they have a new they have that venue but they're doing one a week And I thought that was interesting and then

the second thing you know bonus B2 um is was the amount of volume that he was putting in and that was part of what inspired me uh to basically do more was you know I figured that he would spend the majority of his time you know running Ramsey Solutions and then make you know do his show and then and and whatnot but when you look at actual hours he spends like 20 hours a week making Content and I also found that with pbd he also did 20 hours a week um and some of these other

brands that that you know produce a lot of content and when I look at my hours significantly less than that we spend way more on the portfolio side and so uh the building was somewhat of a commitment and investment towards building towards that I think what I'm getting from this is that you were inspired by Dave Ramsey yeah you bought this building and you can turn your Version of business your Dave Ramsey approach to what you're doing yeah that'll be an element of it for sure yeah that's really interesting yeah I mean I wish you

could tell us more about model yeah I mean you'll see it but uh you know I'm I'm a model success you know what I mean I mean I think that we will do it a little bit differently because we're you know we're us we talk about business we have different subject matters and whatnot but I think um I do It's funny because I've been a remote only business since I mean basically my almost my entire career and so I mean I had my inperson gyms but even those I ran from home because you know I

didn't drive out to all the locations every day and so um it's really cool having the in person now and like seeing people at the office every day and I think the amount that we can influence and teach and and upskill the team in an in-person environment is so much faster uh than in A remote environment the ability to influence culture at scale um is so much faster and an iners environment so I'm actually just very excited for our speed of execution that we're probably going to be able to unlock when is the gym going

to be complete probably a month well I'll say it stages so the entire gym will be done probably in a month and it'll have the first wave of of equipment um I'll have equipment orders coming in for the next year after that Wow I really want to go there and work out oh it'll be the best gym in Vegas and no one will be able to go no one can go but but Jack it's not going to be like it's not like a public gym I'm not going to like have private gy it's like someone's

you know yeah it's my office I'm not like having Jack a little bit of room for a couple of Jack and I could go right I mean get you should take it up with Lila I'm sure she'll she'll be a write up some terms For you she for sure say yes are you gonna put a ping pong table in there we already have one got it we game we ball are you living from the office I feel like I wouldn't leave like for you to be that efficient I would live there um not as much

as you'd think actually um well we're still to be fair we're still like building out some of the stuff and some stuff's like half done and so it's easier for me to do some things at home Um but one of the things that we wanted to be really particular about was uh we wanted to create an incredibly rewarding environment I would encourage people to come you know as often as possible but not have like rules as in you don't have to show up at 9:00 you don't have to leave you know stay till 5: like

you don't have to come certain days of the week because we've been a remote company but the idea was that we would want to create an environment that people Wouldn't want to stay home from and so that's kind of what we're shooting for yeah when I saw Well Jack and I saw Mr Beast he turned one of his offices into a bedroom and it was incredible and it made me kind of think if I were in that position I would not mind living if I were single I would absolutely live in the office if I

were single I would AB but it's big enough where you and Lea could have 3,000 square feet in this place and you would never even know well There's already a suite yeah there's there's two suets that have full actually there's three Suites that have bathrooms and full everything um and the previous owner uh was International and so he would come and he would sleep here or sleep at the building and then he would fly back I think he was like Asian um and uh yeah like no she wouldn't go for it not even close like

not a chance not a chance on on Earth yeah to me that just seems like so much fun because like The gym is down there you just never leave and I think I think there's like it's almost creating space to be missed from from from work too it's like it's nice to have somewhere to go and I will say with the office thing and Jason you can back me up here I do feel it's such a different vibe going home like home when you work from home all the time it's like home and work are

just basically all the time but working somewhere separate from where you live When you get back it home feels a little bit more relaxing which is kind of nice sure yeah so you prefer at this point having an office I yeah I do I'm super pro office right now really like it that's something I've not had in a very long time I used to go into the oppenheim group almost every day pretty much I'd be there even when I was mostly doing YouTube full-time I'd still go into the office just because I liked it I

enjoyed just getting out of the house Going somewhere seeing other people work got me in the zone of working cuz it's like oh everyone else is here I put all my headphones and exactly that motivated it's exactly that and I know I'll work out harder when the team's there around me like I'm like I now I'm going to be able to like be able to record content while I'm working out which I don't really do cuz at public gyms it's weird I already have enough people stopping me it's like I don't want to draw more

Attention um but like I'll be able to do that at the gym there and that'll be awesome so like now I'm actually having another rewarding uh like stimulus from working out so it's like I get to work out and then I also get to make content so it's like I have even more reason to work out so it's just giving more more ways to win which I like I think it' make a great series if for your content what you would do like you know how Dave Rams has people on take note of this you

Work out with somebody else in kind of like a podcast setting so you mic them up and you do workouts planning on doing oh yeah okay perfect yeah I I agree I think that would be very cool part of part of the plan yep yeah it'll uh I I'll I'll announce the name because I think we have something coming out soon right yeah yeah um it's GNA be called between sets between sets fantastic name wow I like that yeah that's good did you come Up with that you did yeah because a lot of my life

lessons actually happen between sets and so it's like I'd be lifting with an older guy and we'd be between sets and he'd be like you know blah or i' ask him a question he's like this is kind of how I see it and um I always like that environment too because like at least my obviously my experience in the gym has been so overwhelmingly positive throughout my entire life i' I've had so many mentors so many friends So many life lessons learned in the gym um between sets you know um that I I want to

I want to kind of like take the take the audience along for that kind of same experience that I I mean I grew up basic I mean I've spent so much of my life in gym you know literally like from teenage years in high school to literally what my career was for the first 5 years my professional career after my job was literally being in a gym all day so I have just so many Positive experiences there um and just also as a weird side note this is from a Creator perspective um I think like

of my top like 20 clips of all time like six of them are me at the gym and I've only recorded at the gym twice ever so it's was just kind of interesting I was like it I don't know if it's like a justos of like Jack dude but not talking about Fitness stuff cuz I'm not I'm I basically don't talk about you know thing is gym content is doing really Really really well right now and so it's it's a bit it's on an uptrend but the other thing I've noticed is that when you're talking

people lose retention if if you're just static but if you're there doing something it's like listening to you with Subway Surfers on the bottom except you could incorporate you lifting weights and speaking there's two things going on I could I could watch you lift the weight and I could listen at the same time so I think it's Really Dynamic I think that's really important I mean you you you you would know um yeah so we're we're super stoked about that and also all my so all my tweets the vast majority of them coming to me

while I'm working out so it's like I'll be between sets and I'll just be firing off tweets and that's and so this time I'll just be doing that to a camera you know I mean the one request I have meet with Sam celic yeah yeah do something with him as soon as possible I Would love if if he could be the first person you have there well we're gonna have one not him first but who's the first um well my so when Chris Williamson and I did our podcast uh we actually worked out together and

so uh we had a really great exchange while we worked out and so the team compressed that into the which will be the first episode of uh between SS how long is that gonna be actually you would know how long is the episode 13 14 minutes Yeah we're not doing we're not doing uh we we'll see we we're going to we'll experiment with it I'm going tell you what'll be the best if you make this an hourlong workout and you include the entire thing yeah I think the entire hour with by the way no edits

if you could do one straight shot post it to YouTube no edits yeah including like the you getting up like you're kind of out of breath people are loving that that's why Sam is doing so well just no edits It's just real yeah and that's what I think is lacking right now on YouTube yeah no I mean we we're down for anything yeah we roll we we roll with the punches we're always whatever you know whatever serves the audience we're we're happy to you know provided it works with our values we're down to done out

what's your hair care routine oh God nothing do use shampoo no what what do you mean you don't use you don't use shampoo why I think it just dries out Your skin and my my uh my hair gets like fluff super fluffy so I just don't do you just use water what about conditioner I don't ever no shampoo ever right gr I did this for like eight months yeah but I feel like it just the hair just get way down you scub I mean you scrub I mean you still scrub your scalp you still like

thing is you strip yourself of the natural oils when you do use shampoo this is a theory and then you overproduce these oils which then Makes your hair really oily and creates dandruff but if you get past like the lump of like no shampoo then ends up being healthy I don't know I mean I've been doing this for years I've been doing this for years and it's also good because apparently when you're like like really scrubbing on your scalp it facilitates hair growth as well is what they say you're stimulating what about your beard you

use any product there um actually I Started using basically like a basically it's like ChapStick for your beard but uh it's just I if I if I comb it out in the morning it just stays a little straighter otherwise it's just like [ __ ] it's like a mangled monster and do you do that do you keep this look because it's for Branding or do you do it like for any other reason it's so funny I got um there was a there was like a a mastermind or something like a group of people who were

all so a buddy of mine Was there and he was like somebody got up and was like so this is Hermos strategy to blah blah blah and I always find it funny when people break down my strategies when there wasn't one um um but I I was wearing like I I just I I literally am wearing the outfit that I can wear in the most environments comfortably so like I can wear this to the pool I can wear this to the gym I can wear this to this podcast I can go out to dinner cuz

I just throw a flannel On top of it I'm good to go um and also we're in Vegas and so it's hot a lot and so I wear like the lightest thing that I can wear but but that beard is more maintenance to keep it like that I'm guessing than it is to trim it no trimming and shaving is way more than this I literally just exist and then I come in the morning 5 seconds while one Zoom I'll be on zo yeah but you have to trim it every now and then right if somebody

Comes you sculpt it some comes yeah why can't you just do it yourself I let them do it I mean I just sit down he comes I can take a call I can do whatever I want he's just cutting it while I'm there how much is that I don't know people have been saying it could be a weak chin a weak chin he's actually hiding say to this he's hiding a no Chin yeah you're right what they're saying you're right that's It that's what it is it's all what's behind it that's what it is yeah

weak chin okay one last I have a question about the Nicorette sure have you found because I've heard I actually heard this from talker Carlson on theovon which is amazing if you guys haven't seen it you guys should watch it after this episode that this Nicorette stuff like nicotine in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's this stuff all the auxiliary things that Happens when you ingest nicotine usually which is like the smoke that hurts your lungs or your gums and Etc but nicotine actually increases mental acuity it like makes you more

energetic it motivates you Etc have you noticed the same thing with this Nicorette I mean I mean I've been to a nicr for like 14 years wait really I I didn't know this why why did you start doing that the reason that he well I mean I uh I like nicotine in general how did you get started on That um I started shwing NC nicotine you started chewing it or you started smoking I started chewing nicotine you went straight to chewing MH how do you get in how do you decide one day I'm going to

start chewing um I liked dipping and then I was like well dipping is bad for you so then I just like started cheing the gret got the same benefits and been Dowing it what are the benefits that you get it's a I mean it's a short short acting stimulant So it's a 30 30- minute half life so like you can chew this at 5 o'clock in the afternoon because you want to have like a boost from 5 to 7 or something now 30 minutes so it's like it'll half multiple times in that time period but

you can go to sleep fine and so um it's one it's an appetite suppressant so if you are trying to like maintain calories or like anything like that like if you are hungry and you're like I shoot I'm going I got to take a call at 12 and I'm Hungry now but I got I got to wait till 1 it's like you can pop into credit and it's just very easy um it is stimulate from an energy like perspective um it also increases short-term memory which is nice uh and uh I have a history of

Alzheimer's in my family and it uh it's been shown to decrease the likelihood of of Alzheimer's because it promotes angiogenesis which is just basically increasing blood flow in the brain and then what are the negatives of doing That I haven't found any I mean it's I see I see nicotine a lot like caffeine like it's just it would just be like uh if for some reason we magically found that coffee had like cancer causing stuff in it but caffeine itself was fine it's like okay well don't drink coffee you can still like drink Mountain Dew

or you can just take caffeine pills exactly um I I see nicotine the same way um and I also haven't found myself addicted to it like I forget to chew it um I like it because I've if you want to talk about like associating things from a behavior perspective like I chew nicotine when I work and so I have Associated work with nicotine and so it's like if you want to get addicted to work then put an addictive agent close to the thing that you actually want to do but if I don't work I forget

to chew it why aren't smokers just chewing Nicorette gum all the time smoking is Addicting it's the oral fixation smoking is addicting I guess this is the first I've ever heard of someone is chewing the gum yeah smoking is separate like in of itself and you know I'm not you know what I'm not even going to get in the science Bros in the comments but like I I I have no draw I forget to take it might say take it I mean chew it I forget to chew it so I I have not found it

to be addictive per the science People that I know it in into and of itself is not addictive um it is the other things like chewing tobacco like the active dipping things like that are addictive smoking is addictive vaping itself as like the I thought those were addictive because of the nicotine not because of the way they're consumed multi you're saying you could have decaf coffee and it would satisfy your coffee addiction in the same way essentially assuming caffeine and nicotine well it Would be like me smoking a cigarette that doesn't have caffeine in that

if that was the analogy right so I don't understand well no no no like like you're saying it's not necessarily the nicotine because you say you forget to take it yeah but for the people that are addicted to smoking cigarettes it's the oral fixation the things are paired I think it's together God I think it's both the things together and also like there's also many cuz like also when do People smoke and like this is getting like I'll be very this is beyond my you know my scope but um people pair things that are positive

with smoking so it's like you go outside you get some time like you're working you you associate with a break and then you light up so it's like there's all of the other things that get associated with together and that's what gets harder to to quit got it that makes sense yeah but I enjoy it and if you if you are if you are want To someday start into the nicotine world uh just just don't take too much to like it's like try to get Leila addicted to it um and no one gets addicted to

it doesn't really matter but um but she uh she just she chewed too much you know what I mean uh and being like and she was like yeah and she was like uh this isn't for me I was like well that's like drinking a whole bottle of vodka and and saying like alcohol is in for me I was like take a shot see how you feel um and I think the same thing with nicotine is like chew a half a milligram and just see how you feel and uh and go from there I mean I

chew a ton but I just like it so whatever I do believe that we probably have to put some sort of disclaimer here yeah yeah absolutely coffee hour people you know we're not knowledgeable on this subject intuitively I would say don't do it but you do have somebody that says it has positively affected their life do in the Same way that Tucker Carlson said that it has positively affected his life yeah but I don't know I've just heard bad things that's what they taught me in scho in my official stance is don't do it and

it doesn't affect me what you do so like and what I do doesn't affect you it's fine I have accepted whatever risks yeah come with it I enjoy it and if I die five years younger it's okay all right fair enough that's so fascinating the laugh the laugh at the end let me Just double check check my notes real quick yeah I hit everything in my notes you hit everything in why you need to live a long time anyways why do you need to live a long time right well because compared to a thousand years

assuming our only life our only opportunity at anything right then wouldn't you want to extend it not necessarily I think there's a difference between Health span and workspan and lifespan like some people Like add years to their life but they don't add life to their years that's great I like that a lot that's a fantastic quote you've tweeted that I'm guessing no I'm sure some should that's a great tweet right there cool yeah you make sure you have that recorded because that that was a great I feel like that one yeah that was a great

look you're like do you have any other tricks like the Solomon chats yeah that you employ To be better off sure I think um I have a lot of frames on dealing with stress and um missed expectations uh because I think um if you're in business or really just in life in general like you're bound to have expectations that are not met and so I just have a number of to your word tricks um that I've used so like one of them is one that I call the frame of the veteran which I got from

Dr cashy um which is basically like something bad Happens and then you imagine that it happens a thousand times in a row after that and then you think okay well how would I feel on the thousandth time of this happening and usually on the thousandth time you would have already habituated to it and just be a part or a fact of life and it's like well if that's how I can feel about it then then I might as well feel about it now that way now and so I actually the first time I ever used

it I had um I just bought This this sounds so hokey um I got this flanel shirt that I really liked it was like a color scheme I thought was cool and um uh the maid that I had shrunk it and uh I was like super annoyed and I thought to myself I was like well if everything that she ever did trunk and every time I wash something it Shunk then I wouldn't be upset about it cuz it just would be how clothes work in the dryer or so if that's how it always was then

I wouldn't be upset about it so if I can choose to not be upset about it then then I won't be upset about it now and then it was over and so it's like having like Frameworks like that um that have that have served me really well like the the reason I had the the time one uh when we just talked about like lifespan is like when my cat Bill died I was super bummed because I really liked the cat he died at like 18 months so it was kind of like weird it was like

a freak you know odd death um and I Remember being sad about it I was like why am I sad like what like why am I sad um and I was like I feel like it's not fair that he lived such a short life I was like okay so that means that I had an expectation that he would live longer than he did I was like what if cats only lived six months and I got to hang out with Bill for 18 months well then I'd be like well [ __ ] I I mean he

lived a good long life I mean I got him three times longer than most people get Their cats and and so then all of a sudden like my sadness was like it shifted to like more of an appreciation for the time that I had with him and so it was it was simply just shifting my expectation around what I I expected or I demanded of the universe that my cat should live longer but like but why and then um I think about that within the context of like our lives because you know if all humans

live to 20 if we like 34 I'm like dude I'm murdering it but Like within the context of like all time we all don't live long at all and so if I got to live the way that I wanted to live for the extent of my life it's only the expectation that I would deserve to or demand that I live longer and have that unmet which is the thing that would cause me to be more upset but if if I make life choices that cause me to live till 75 versus 85 like the lifespan is

still the lifespan and the only thing I lose is The present so all of these things what I like about it is that it's just a change in perspective it's not a change in what is it's just a different framework of Mind how you see it and that makes that makes all the difference yeah and that's and that's um you know like one of the other frames I use is uh is just zooming all the way out which is one of my favorites which is just uh like you like you have this instance that bothers

you whatever happened I Lose $15 million and be really upset about it and then I just like Zoom all the way out and I'm like you know far enough out you can't even see the Earth and I just like remind myself of that and then I'm like okay this just doesn't matter and then I zoom back in again and so um I usually play with time and space in terms of uh trying to reframe uh whatever the issue is that I'm upset about and think like what what is what is the expectation that I have

and how Is it unmet and how can I shift that expectation and what if the expectation were completely different what if every time I drove there was always 20 minutes of traffic would I still be upset probably not because it would be just like how it always is and so like using those things on a regular basis I think have allowed me to make better decisions and be a little bit less emotional or reactive to bad news um and I think if you compound that like small amount of Space that you can create for yourself

for an extended period of time you can make better decisions and so that's probably been to answer your question like some of the tricks that um have been really useful for me I'm wondering because you spend a lot of your time working and it seems like you have this routine every single day is somewhat similar are you concerned that you're spending some period of time in your life that a lot of people would deem Like the golden years doing the same thing over and over again rather than like openness to experience and maybe trying traveling

or trying and going this doing this new hobby like this ping pong thing right doing a new thing and experiencing it and then what if it's like 10 times better than whatever you had what if you allocated a certain percentage of your time on a weekly basis to try out something new well one I wouldn't know if there was something That was better mhm and so that doesn't bother me very much like there could be some I'm sure there's something that could be hypothetically better but I also would hedonistically adapt to it anyways and probably

return right back to my Baseline I mean there are people who live in Africa who never leave the tribe and are happier than we are and so like I don't think finding out more things is the is like the path um but uh for me to somebody who would criticize My quote way of living um I do exactly what I want with as a highest percentage of my day as I humanly can with the people that I want to do it with and so like I would say you know because I I I get uh

criticized from family still to a degree that I quote work too much but that's because like their projection of what work means to them is just so negative and if I said all I do is play video games all day then they would say that I'm not working enough but what if I my job was to play video games all day then I'd be working too much it's just like it's simply just their projections of how they would prefer I live my life their statement is I would prefer you live your life the way I

want you to live your life to which I say no so I live my life the way I want to live it and that is enough cool I love it okay cool thank you man fantastic thank you guys that was great it we're so happy to have you On I want like I mean if it's not too much to ask every year you know we the recurring guest because look it we have developments like last time it shoulds now it's about because exactly that's a huge change and I I bet you next time there's going

to be more exemptions probably you know what I mean yeah I'm going to eliminate I mean I try to eliminate all labeling language but that is a big then there's not even any is just I mean yeah I mean that actually is A big he is this well how about this guys subscribe so that that way a year from today will post another episode if you want to be a part of it just hit the like button and subscribe that's it and it's free to subscribe it's all you have to do it's free a deal

the cost is nothing the cost is a fraction of a second for you to hit the button for $100,000 I know exactly you got you got uh actually $150,000 wow so if you guys appreciate $150,000 that we just gave you subscribe and hit the like button and the notification Bell like don't say I never did nothing for it you know and all of your information will be in the description so enjoy yeah thanks cool thanks guys till next time thank you guys okay thumbnail or you think it's uh I think we're fine have you seen

the office the show yeah I got this haircut this morning before the first podcast I thought I was Looking fly Graham said off the rip that I look like Dwight shuit really off the rip that I look but once you once you see you can't unsee it kind of thing I think that's that's kind of how I describe it do I Tres yeah you look older last time I saw you yeah yeah yeah more wrinkles maybe a stress you you might be stressed me I don't know this guy's stressing I look older do I you're

36 33 are you really yeah okay thought you were older than I was no okay yeah I'm old I am developing wrink I actually really want to get BOTOX do it then I can't imagine it's healthy for you I cannot imagine that injecting your body with was it silicone no it's not silic silicone what are you talking poison it's not silic oh it's po I can't imagine injecting yourself with poison just neutralizes the muscle spul it's literally the most deadly thing on earth is it actually you could kill all of humanity with this much of

it see I Just I just actually yeah 100% it's like Theo deadly botulin is what it's called botulinum or something and Botox is it botulism no it's like botulinum I think yeah