Joe Rogan Experience #2051 - Graham Hancock

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day hello hello Joe Rogan good to see you my friend good to be back with you he congratulations on the success of your show it's been uh it's very awesome to see and it's been uh really awesome to hear from so many people about it that know that I'm really fascinated by the subject and the reviews have all Been super positive for my friends so I'm really excited well thank you for appearing on on Ancient apocalypse as

well my pleasure my pleasure it's a a subject to me that is so unbelievably fascinating and so bizarre that it's controversial I do not understand I mean we we were just talking about this and I said let's stop talking when we're about when we're getting coffee yeah it's to me it seems like there's things that are concrete right we know when genghiskhan Lived we know when they built the 16th chapel we know we know a lot about the Parthenon and the Acropolis we know about 2,000 years ago we know when you start going way way

way way way back things get real sketchy and to not admit that seems so crazy when they find things when they're making apartment building sometimes they're digging to the ground they go oh hold on a second what is this doesn't it happen in Mexico City all the time yeah it does and and And actually that's how a lot of archaeology happens um somebody's building a road or building a an apartment buildings or building a dam and they call in archaeologists to see if there's anything any interesting archaeology there and this is this is part of

the problem I have with with archaeology as a discipline it likes to think of itself as scientific but what I think it's primarily doing and is weird is trying To control the narrative about the past do you think that's because the people that are in control of archaeology the academics the professors these people have written books on these things have lectured on these things and they've been very specific about timelines and dates yeah I think it's I think it's a complicated it's a complicated mixture uh of of things first of all because Archaeology is so

desperate to be seen as a science it Tries as hard as possible to distance itself from any ideas that might be seen as woo woo you know anything anything out on the edge archaeology doesn't want to associate itself with and then it takes the next step and and and really seeks to attack out on the edge uh ideas now I don't know why the possibility of A Lost Civilization during the Ice Age should be an out on the edge idea uh we've had lost civilizations before the indis valley civilization uh in in today In Pakistan

wasn't known about until the 1920s it was found by accident and you know every turn of the archaeologist Spade can reveal new information but uh there there there the reaction to my proposal that we've forgotten an episode in the human story it's always been hostile since I published Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 but with ancient apocalypse much bigger platform reaching a much wider audience that the reaction was just hysterical and it went on for a Very long time and it appeared to be it appeared to me I don't think it's a conspiracy I don't

think archaeologists are involved in a conspiracy I think the people who are attacking me genuinely believe in what they're saying and they genuinely think I'm harmful but that's like calling it the most dangerous Show on Netflix how did they come up with that how is it harmful to be speculating about ancient structures it's interesting yeah and that's what I don't Get the other thing is the racist angle like we're talking about the exact same people yeah we're just talking about an older time it it doesn't make any sense at all in fact it it kind

of points to this superiority of the Egyptian race absolutely I mean whatever they did however they did it yeah is unbelievably extraordinary and I I think pointing that out is amazing I mean what what you're discovering and what you're showing on that show is that there are a Lot of mysteries when it comes to the history of human beings and we should embrace those Mysteries because there's concrete irrefutable evidence especially in terms of like goly tape some of the other structures I mean this is wild stuff yeah the idea that human beings had an advanced

civilization 10,000 20,000 years ago 30,000 years ago what happened that's the that's what's really interesting like what happened and that's why it's aned apocalypse because Because we know that there was a global cataclysm a slow one 1,200 years long between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago called the younger drers there's still arguments about what caused it but the fact that it was cataclysmic is not is not really uh not really disputed the the accusations that were put against me and the show of being the accusations included the words racis racist white supremacist uh misogynist and Anti-semitic

they give you the full hand they didn't give you one card the show doesn't doesn't touch on any of these issues race is not race is not mentioned in the show so what the archaeologists were doing there they were going back to Fingerprints of the gods that I wrote In 1995 in which I reported indigenous Traditions about the appearance of bearded foreigners bringing knowledge after a cataclysm to the shattered survivors of that cataclysm and in some Cases in those Traditions those uh knowledge Bringers are described as wh- skinned and that is uh that is why

the show was accused of racis racism because archaeology has since taken the view that all of those stories were made made up by the Spanish and that seems to me completely ridiculous uh both in Mexico and in Peru and Bolivia we have traditions we have them uh Vera coocha we have qual coatl we have boik this is a Pan-American myth and actually it's I Think it's racis racist of archaeology uh to imagine that the magic powers of the Spaniards could impose a myth upon indigenous peoples all over the Americas that they'd just be so stupid

that they would fall for this story told by the Spaniards of course these are indigenous myths and traditions and I was reporting them uh in in that book and I stand by them and it turns out that there's actually a huge argument within Academia about this And my critics were just giving one one side of that argument and what is the rest of the argument what is the other side of it well the other side of the argument that it's inconceivable that the Spaniards made up these stories these stories were reported to the first Spanish

visitors in Mexico and in Peru they were reported to them by indigenous peoples as indigenous myths and the fact that they're right spread across the Americas uh makes it very unlikely I Mean if it was one story but if it's a dozen stories and they're told over a huge geographical region the notion that this is a a Spanish conspiracy it's an ultimate conspiracy theory uh I don't think we should take away these Traditions from the indigenous people who who reported them um but uh it gave a very useful handle for people to uh attack this

this series on so the theory is that it was an uneven destruction right and that some places fared better Than other places in terms of the younger D impact Theory right yeah and that those people might have uh reclaimed monom of civilization yeah that's that's that's the idea and by the way on that point uh I have never in anything that I've written uh or anything that I've broadcast uh ever s ever myself suggested uh that uh White races were involved actually it would be quite stupid to do so because if you look at Europe

during the Ice Age and I'm talking about A Lost Civilization of the Ice Age northern Europe and North America were absolutely inhospitable wildernesses during the Ice Age they were frozen they were dry and they were dangerous and they were not the places that people would go people naturally gravitated South towards the equator towards the tropics that's where I would expect to find traces of A Lost Civilization and that's where I do find traces of a lost civil you don't really Find I've I've never reported anything about the UK for example in my books we have

Stonehenge we have ay we have these Stone circles but they're not old enough that was the time when the UK started to get warmer and it's the same with the rest of Northern Europe and it's the same with the northern part of North America you have to go down to the southern part of North America you have to go into Mexico you have to go into the into South America to really find an Environment during the Ice Age that would have nurtured a high civilization and there's a lot of speculation as to why they weren't

able to cross the bearing land mass too right well the again this is an area where there has been a narrative that archaeology has sought to impose upon us and this was this was called the Clovis first idea that there was a people who archaeologists called the Clovis people we don't know what they call themselves Uh in North America and traces of their characteristic uh tools particular sort of looted points Arrowhead spear points turn up from about 13,400 years ago and end abruptly 12,800 years ago and for a long time with the beginning of the

younger drers and for a long time archaeology maintained that this Clovis culture so-called Clovis culture we don't know what they call themselves were the first Americans and that there were no human beings in the Americas Before 13,400 years ago and bit by bit the New Evidence has come in which has forced archaeologists screaming Ing and tearing out their hair to back away from the Clover's first Paradigm and admit that actually yes there were people here before that but even then they're reluctant to go very far back we've recently had these these Footprints in in White

Sands in in New Mexico 23,000 years old or so that's largely being accepted now but there are much earlier Dates there's 130,000 years ago from the suruti madon site near San Diego that's the one that's being disputed because they say it could have been rocks that crushed the bones and made them that way yeah what I what I see again is a is an unfortunate mindset where a new and interesting idea is proposed supported by massives of evidence and published in nature you know Nature has a pretty high bar to what it accepts um and

and then the critics look for any way to get rid Of it can I stop you here are you aware of the Boneyard in Alaska I've heard of it and it sounds fascinating I don't think he's revealed much about that public well it's an amazing amazing Discovery this guy's a gold m Min and he has this large piece of land in Alaska they're mining for gold and they start finding like tusks and bones and in one area that's only a few Acres they found thousands and thousands of woolly mammoth bones and tusks and and um

Saber-tooth tiger was it saber-tooth tiger no was short-faced Bear they found all these like the megaa many animals that weren't even supposed to exist in Alaska MH and he's like look we have the bones of it yeah and one of the things they found recently was bones that were sawed clearly sawed human workmanship but like a sophisticated tool let me see see see if you can pull it up so you could see how it looked clearly cut clearly isn't that amazing absolutely so They're trying to find out what the dates on these are that was

my next question have they have they dated it they just got these recently this is fairly recent so I I believe he's had some issues with universities not giving back his stuff and selling off his stuff oh dear yeah well he recently started a a bone rush in the East River MH they because it turns out that during like the was it like the 1920s or 1930s stuff that they had taken from his land before He owned it MH they had dumped some of it CU they had so much of it they dumped it in

the East River and you know they were balking at it but meanwhile these people found it there yeah so here it goes I think many of you are intrigued by these Ice Age bones found the Bone Yard Alaska if you zoom in you'll see that it's been sanded or somehow been worked down to a smooth finish on the end I'm going to carbon date one of them and post the results when I do so this Is three weeks ago so it's probably going to take a little longer but look how smooth it is on that

one Bott perfectly cut and we we'll look forward to to seeing the dating results but the fact that we're dealing with megap fora yeah uh that went extinct between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago uh implies very strongly that it's at least that old not only that his area has a very thick layer of carbon that seems to indicate some sort of a mass burn or some sort of Horrible disaster so they're they're going through these layers of things and they're finding an unbelievable amount of animals that died in this area just a mass di out

yes and and what would cause a mass die out not human hunting right this is I'm I'm strongly opposed to what they call the overkill hypothesis this is one of the alternative explanations for why the megap fora went extinct at that time right is that huntter gatherers literally wiped out all the Megap fora and to me that for a couple of reasons that doesn't make sense it doesn't it doesn't make sense first of all because hunter gatherers we know in the world today do not wipe out their prey animals they live in coexistence with them

they live in balance with them they don't just destroy them all it's our kind of culture that destroys animals what we do with the Bison what we did with the Bison yeah um and and therefore it seems very UNH hunter Gatherer like activity to completely destroy uh the the the megap fora and the other thing is the simultaneous Extinction of large numbers of creatures that is happening very very very quickly suggests to me that we're looking at a disaster of some sort and that's why the younger drus impact hypothesis which is solid science although undoubtedly

disputed which suggests that multiple fragments of a disintegrating Comet uh hit the earth 12,800 years ago many of Them didn't hit the earth many of them exploded in the sky they were not that big maybe 100 me in in diameter so they were Air Bursts but they leave these characteristic signatures in the ground and like Tusa exactly like tunguska the Tusa event is a recent example of that 30th of June 198 happens to be at the peak of the beta toids and the torid meteor stream is identified as the likely culprit for what happened in

the in the younger drers um wildfires Burning you get these impacts smashing into smashing into the Earth bursting in the air over forests they cause huge fires and huge and that's why you get enormous amounts of of charcoal as a result and then the larger objects it's thought hit the North American ice cap and caused a very large amount of meltwater to flow into the world ocean and that's what brought temperatures down at the beginning of the of of the younger dryers we can Argue there there are alternative theories maybe solar activity was involved Robert

shock prefers a change in solar activity and and you know Custer Robert he's a he's a brilliant scientist and he's put his on the line by advocating a much older Sphinx any scientist these days in the field of archaeology who sticks his neck out and says that the archaeological narrative is wrong immediately gets massively attacked and I think that's I think That's most unfortunate a couple of points I'd like to make about this first of all we said at the beginning most archaeology certainly in the industrialized countries is a result of a dam or a

road being built an archaeologist being called in to see if there's anything there it's not a targeted search it's kind of random something's happening and archaeologists go in there um and then there's huge areas of the world that have had very Little archaeology done in them uh those include the Amazon rainforest where I've just been uh I've been three weeks in the Brazilian Amazon and another couple of weeks in in in Peru and there are extraordinary Revelations coming out of the Amazon rainforest now the Amazon rainforest up until very recently had very little archaeology done

you're talking about 6 million square kilm of the Earth's surface which has hardly been touched by archaeology and now it Is being touched by archaeology thanks to Liar which is identifying enormous structures Under The Canopy we're finding that we have to rewrite the whole story of the Amazon that there were potentially populations of millions living in the Amazon that there were cities they were join joined by roads hundreds of kilometers in length all of these things are are recent discoveries which says we should be thinking again about the Amazon same goes for the Submerged Continental

Al shell 27 million square kilm of the best real estate on Earth that were above water during the Ice Age are underwater now yes there's been some Marine archaeology but not enough uh to rule out the possibility of A Lost Civilization and the same with the Sahara Desert 9 million square kilometers a little bit of archaeology done but before archaeologists say there there was no lost civiliz this is what the society For American archaeology said in their open letter to Netflix complaining about my show uh they said we know that there was no Lost Civilization

during the Ice Age and my question to them is how can they possibly know that when they've looked at relatively small areas of the Earth the picture is not complete they should be saying we don't think there was A Lost Civilization during the is fine but to say we know there wasn't that's that's completely wrong well it's Silly and it's also it becomes more and more of a problem the more things get discovered and the more they push back harder and more emotionally and more religiously yeah it's really kind of crazy the way they behave

that as if they have like an accurate map like the way they viewed some of the older hieroglyphs that depict civilizations that were 30,000 years ago like kings and and the the king lists from ancient Egypt go back 30 30 plus thousand years But they want to pretend that those are myth yeah and yet for their chronology of ancient Egypt they actually use the king lists the moment those King lists start giving dates that fall within dates that archaeologists like every everything before those dates they say oh they just made it up how crazy is

that wouldn't it be a fascinating alternative if you were an archaeologist to go you know what maybe this king's list is legit maybe this thing really is 30 40,000 years old and maybe that explains a lot and now we have to figure out how yeah how'd they do it it would be a fascinating alternative but but unfortunately it's not the way that archaeology works at the moment I repeat I a lot of archaeologists have accused me of accusing them of a conspiracy against me and trying to trying to make you look like a c yeah

I don't see any conspiracy I see people who do believe what they're saying and uh who think I'm Wrong but who feel that I'm such a threat to the narrative that they present that I must be neutralized in in any way possible and that's a sad State of Affairs science should embrace and explore new and different ideas uh and particularly when it comes to the human past uh there look I mean if if I get in an airplane I I do want the pilot to be a properly qualified pilot I want him to have undergone

all the training and to be really good at what he does but Flying an airplane and studying the human past are two different things and archeologists often compare themselves to airline pilots they say you wouldn't get in an airplane without a properly trained pilot so why are you studying the past without a properly trained archaeologist and what I say is you've got blinkers on you're very you you've got a very narrow Pres perspective on what the past could be and you're defending and protecting that Perspective and imposing a narrative about the past on the public

and that's where we get into a kind of religious aspect of this that they become the high Priests of the past well like zi hawas is an excellent example in Egypt zahi is an excellent example um he does not want to even entertain the notion that there's some sort of a gap in the knowledge of History if you if you just say the word Atlantis TO zahi Haas he goes berserk he absolutely goes nuts um And that's irrational too um since we know that the Atlantis story comes from Plato we know that Plato said the

source of that story was in ancient Egypt uh in the temple of Neath at SC in the Delta an ancestor Solon visited that Temple and was told the story which he put into the word Atlantis is not an ancient Egyptian word that's one of the problems but he called it Atlantis but uh at edfu in Upper Egypt there's there's a whole story of a homeland of the Primeval ones That was destroyed in a great cataclysm and flooded by the Sea leaving only a few survivors who traveled around the world seeking to restart civilization it's told

very clearly in the edu building texts which fortunately have now been completely translated sadly only into German I hope we'll see the full English translation in due course but the translations I was working from when I first studied them are very good and they've been Reinforced and supported by this new Fuller translation so I think the Atlantis story does have an ancient Egyptian origin and I think the ancient Egyptians Egyptians should be proud of it rather than throwing it away and also archaeologists should not seek to isolate the story of Atlantis from other flood myths

and traditions all around the world that and that's a problem too I mean we have hundreds of myths and traditions from countries all around the Globe which speak of a great Global cataclysm a huge flood often wildfires uh destruction of human beings and and and of animals a few survivors who seek to restart civil it's a global story not a not a single story told by Plato and I mean if you hear the same story from so many different cultures at what point in time do you go maybe there's something to this I mean it's

just very strange to try to deny that again we have this especially with the Phys evidence yeah especially with the physical evidence and and it's interesting with the physical evidence like like gockley Tey which is 11,600 years old I mean it used to be argued Robert shock and John Anthony West's work on the Great Sphinx suggesting that the Sphinx could be 12,000 plus years old it used to be argued that was impossible because there was no other site anywhere in the world no other megalithic site of the same age and then We discover gockley tee

and it's 11,600 years old now if you can make gobec Lee with his 20 ton megaliths beautifully carved representations of human and animal figures in those in those pillars if you can do that you can cut the Great Sphinx out of Bedrock as well there's no reason to to dismiss the geological evidence of the Great Sphinx anymore but instead what Archaeology is doing is trying to finesse gocke they're trying to say oh there was this gradual buildup To gocke and they now talk about a people who they call the natufians again we don't know what

they call themselves uh who were predecessors of gcki tee around 14,000 years ago uh and they show things that look like a tiny little stone wall that they built the sort of thing that you can find a dry stone wall that you can find anywhere in Wales to this day you know uh and this is supposed to be a prequel to gockley Tey you I'm sorry you just don't start off Making dry stone walls and then wake up one morning and create 20 ton megaliths in huge Stone circles perfectly astronomically aligned as we have at

goly tee now not only that but how like what did what did they do how are you even where are you getting those 20 ton megalit from how far do they have to transport in the case of gockley tee not far how far oh hundreds of meters I've stood on top of one uh megalith that they partially cut out of the Bedrock uh With the t-shape but then they found a fault in it and they left it there it would have been a 30 ton megalith they clearly intended to release it from the Bedrock but

it had a fault so they they left it alone the quaries the the issue of the quaries for the Rock at gockley tee is not too big a problem but the transportation of those even the transportation you get enough people working together and they can and they can move uh large Stones there's that's That that's not in dispute but that that's where the question comes how do you get enough people together how do you have the organizational skills where do you have the mindset that plans something like this at the beginning and and that is

the problem that is not answered in the case of gobec Lei that happening suddenly and what were they using for tools they're supposed to have just been using Stone there's not supposed to have been any any Metals at At at that period not even brass not even brass not even copper I have um I have a a complicated view on gockley tee let's say it's my hypothesis it's not a fact I don't claim this is a fact I think that what we're looking at at gocke there's no doubt that the population of around gocke were

all hunter gatherers when gock tee started to be made and that's the weirdest thing of all because previously archaeology always used to say hunter gatherer Cultures did not have the Manpower did not have the organizational skills could not generate the surpluses that would allow people to specialize in architecture and engineering and astronomy and so on so it used to be said that hunter gatherers couldn't do that now archaeologists have backpedal on that and they're saying well yeah clearly hunter gatherers did it the funny thing is that that during the Thousand Years that gockley Tee Functions

and it runs from roughly 11,000 600 years ago to say 9,600 years ago uh during during the 10,600 years ago during those Thousand Years the population of gocke transitions from being hunter gatherers to being agriculturalists so we see two new ideas suddenly appearing at gockley teepe enormous megalithic architecture and a shift from Hunter Gathering to Agriculture and what gockley looks like to me is a transfer of technology that People who already knew how to work megal architecture and align it precisely to the risings of particular stars for example sirrius uh came to gockley tee at

a time of chaos and cataclysm in the world and they sought to introduce a new way of thinking I think gockley tee was created as a project to mobilize the local community to give them something to work on to bring them together and it's not an accident that during that thousand years They transitioned from hunting Hunter Gathering to to agriculture um I don't uh see massive technical complications in in creating gockley except those very precise alignments but what I do see uh is a sudden appearance of something that shouldn't have been there and that and

that requires explanation how do they determine the emergence of Agriculture versus agriculture that it existed in some areas and not others like it does Now like uh you can go to the Amazon and you can see hunter gatherers and then you can go to Sal Pao and see major Metropolitan City I was just in manous uh and it's it's fascinating actually they have a a tower up there on the edge of the Jungle you can go up that Tower 150 M up and on one side extending endlessly infinitely into the distance is the Amazon rainforest

turn the other way and there's the city of manous wow looking at you with its with it with its Skyscrapers that's got to be wild it's a wild sight to see um and and uh actually there the interesting thing about the Amazon Joe is uh it's been grievously misunderstood over the years and fortunately Archaeology is beginning to come to terms with it there was agriculture in the Amazon going back a very long way going back at least 10,000 years maybe maybe further um and we we may have discussed this before but there's this there's this

curious soil That exists in the Amazon that they call teraa uh or Amazonian Dark Earth recent uh investigations have shown without doubt that it's man-made and deliberately man-made not an accidental result of Refuge tips but a deliberate attempt to make the Amazon fertile and how do they know that it's deliberate uh because they find in it the same ingredients and amongst those amongst those ingredients are always broken bits of um Ceramics that's one of The odd things they seem to be part of what makes it work really Ceramics Ceramics in mixed in there with with

dung with with um human refu all deliberately put put in there not an accidental Dunkey but a place that human beings said we're going to make this ground fertile cuz rainforest soils are not particularly fertile the fertility of the Amazon comes entirely from the fall of leaves onto the soil it refertilized itself but to grow crops on The Amazon is a very different Prospect and this is where teraa uh really comes into its own and i' I've been standing in a pit with with an archaeologist there terraa pit and you can see this beautiful rich

soil and it is a mystery it constantly replenishes itself it never gets used up setlists seek it out seek out areas of terraa and it fits with this notion that not no longer a notion it's a fact that there there was a population of millions in the Amazon 10,000 years ago and uh they were living uh a highly productive sophisticated life they were using agriculture they also gardened the Amazon the the hyperd dominant tree trees in the Amazon are all food bearing trees the Brazil nut tree for example which a huge Tall Tree um is

a food bearing tree and they exist in far greater numbers than they should do if they develop naturally humans manipulated the Amazon and made it serve human needs thousands and thousands of Years ago and then we have these enormous structures that are appearing in the Amazon which are being referred to as geoglyphs they call them geoglyphs after the NASCAR lines actually the NASCAR lines in Peru are are huge ground images sometimes geometrical form sometimes showing animals or birds or spiders other creatures often actually showing Amazonian animals but in the Brazilian Amazon in the state of

acre uh as a Result of clearances of the Amazon that have been done for farming purposes there's this rush to just cut the Amazon down and replace it with cattle ranches and soybean Farms those clearances have revealed something that again according to the old view of the Amazon shouldn't be be there which is gigantic Earthworks huge ones a bit like the henges in in Europe uh enormous embankments ditches and in geometrical form so you get enormous squares enormous circles you Get a circle within a square uh they keep repeating these these geometrical images and they're

thousands of years old uh when when we were down there just just recently we had a local liar guy working with us these days you could you don't have to even use an airplane to find things with lier you can fly lier off a drone and flying his drone within a mile of known structures that are outside the rainforest now he found two more huge geoglyphs under the rainforest Canopy which will be which will be investigated and this is uh bizarre and and puzzling they reckon the team working on this that's Marty Parson and of

the University of Helsinki and Ela ranzi who's a Brazilian archaeologist and geologist um they reckon that there's thousands of these things still under the rainforest canopy and there's a huge untold story so one of the places I would look for A Lost Civilization is the Amazon rainforest how do they know That the Tera praa replenishes itself how does it do that it's something to do with microbes and bacteria that are in that are in the soil and they they keep on regenerating they don't get used up it's a kind of it's a kind of Miracle

it's not fully understood no nobody can say they fully understand terator but what is fully understood and it's understood by settlers is that if they plant on terator they're going to get rich crops coming out of it is there a Way to reproduce that in America attempts have been made to reproduce it and biochar is one of the words that comes that comes to mind um there's even indications that some of the modern indigenous peoples of the Amazon uh are still creating teroa this is a whole mystery that needs to be investigated much further we're

looking at the oldest examples are more than 8,000 years old and that's just in the areas that have been surveyed very likely teroa goes Back much much much earlier than that because it's such an issue with modern farmlands where they have to use these modern fertilizers they have to use which are not helpful in many ways and they run off like the top soil is worn out so if they could figure out a way to reproduce Tera praa this would be one of the many ways in which our so-called high-tech industrialized Society could learn from

indigenous cultures we could We could learn a lot from them about living in harmony with the environment and about clever things like teraa clever things like curari you know which is another Amazonian invention which is the basis of modern anesthesiology how did they do that there's 11 11 ingredients in kurari uh and those ingredients are not active on their own you have to cook them all together to get this poison uh which is a muscle relaxant why a muscle relaxant Because if you're going to shoot a monkey 200t up a tree with your arrow you

don't want it coiling its tail around the tree when it dies you want it to drop to the drop to the ground iasa is another Amazonian invention and again it consists of several ingredients two in two in particular neither of which are active on their own but which only work when cooked together so I what I see in the Amazon is traces of a lost science a scientific uh a scientific Mindset can I can I show some pictures of these glyphs please we have to hook up the magical HDM HDMI um and uh I'll just

show I'll just show a few slides of them um I forget which side the HDMI is in I think it's in that side careful with the water yeah got it okay are we are we on screen we will be Momentarily here we go yeah so so this shows the Amazon um 6.7 million square kilometers there's still 5 a half million left covered by rainforest that's bigger than the entire subcontinent of India and hardly any archaeology has been done and the archaeology that is being done is fascinating and it's particularly in the state of acre um

in in the southwest of Brazil that we're seeing uh these extraordinary geoglyphs now I'm Here with I'm on the on on the left there that's Marty parsen from the University of Helsinki uh and that is Fabio filho who's the liar expert and that's Al ranzi who's a Brazilian geographer and archaeologist and we're looking at the latest lar discoveries and there I'm about to take off in a plane with these two guys it was just incredible to fly over there I've flown over the NASCAR lines many times but to fly over this and to see these

huge Earthquakes on a scale scale of hundreds of meters sitting there often encroached on by Farms was very very very exciting and what's the conventional explanation for these things there is no conventional explanation because really it's it's only begun to be studied I'll say you first noticed them on an overflight more than 20 years ago but it's only relatively recently that they've started to get the funding and I want to pay Tribute to Eugene Jong uh who is a philanthropist uh who has provided funding for these guys to continue their work and who's also provided

funding to the comet research group and who's also provided funding for the DMT research that's being done at UCSD who what's his name Eugene Jong he's a brilliant brilliant guy j j h n g he's a brilliant philanthropist and he's so open-minded and he's looking to support research in areas that the mainstream just won't Touch that's amazing so we're looking at Fender cpal here where we have a an octagon with rounded Corners um and then this is Santa's shot of the same place and you can see what's going on you see the smoke in the

background there that's the Amazon burning that settlers clearing the Amazon to create more farms uh but in the foreground we have this uh this enormous geometrical event which is a huge oval surrounding a square and did they find this once they started Clearing is that when this this was found as a result of the clearances that's how that's how it beca archaeologist became aware that these things exist so before that this was completely covered with Tre completely cover with rainforest it was only the it's a sort of mixed blessing or mixed curse if you like

because the clearances made it possible for us to know that these things exist but the clearances ultimately will destroy the entire Amazon if they're allowed to continue jaosa on the left a square surrounding a circle um and here's a couple of sans shots of jaosa you can see there's a large square earthwork and a circle in it that's almost not quite but almost like the Greek exercise of squaring the circle it's like geometrical exercises are taking place here in the Amazon um and and again a square with these curious scallops cut into the side of

it and and and and and a circle there's There's just so much of this uh of this stuff to Kino absolutely giant giant geoglyph and these things really on the old view of the Amazon shouldn't exist they involve enormous expenditure of effort creating these Earthworks is is a huge job if there were if there was a lot of stone in the Amazon I think we'd see Stone circles on them as well there's one place further north called Rego Grande where there is an Earth workor with a stone circle in it because Stone is locally available

um and and so do you think this was the base of a structure like what is the speculation no I don't think so I've talked to indigenous people there who still respect and rever them um and they say that they were for shamanic journeying that the that the population would gather within them that there would be certain areas that might be reserved for the for the shamans for example the square on the left those two cutout Areas top left and and and right of that square it suggested that shamans were in there and the rest

of the population were in the other area and they were they were undertaking Visionary Journeys uh perhaps using iasa uh of course the the Amazonian peoples are experts in the properties of indigenous plants um so this is their folklore or this is their their story yes this is the story of indigenous indous people I I I talked to an aurina Um Elder uh and he said we don't know exactly why these places were made they were made so long ago but we respect them we rever them and we think that they were used by shamans

in the distant in the distant path so they were aware of them before the clearing they were aware of them before the clearing and they and they red them yes they used them and they still have Community gatherings in them no they weren't they weren't a base for for structures I'm Drawing attention here to Severino kalazan this large Square on the left there which has coincidentally the same footprint as the great pyamid of Giza it just shows you the size of that uh that enormous earthwork um but it's a mystery more work more work needs

to be done and much more needs to be surveyed and thanks to liar that can be done non-invasively uh we can spot these things very small teams can go in and do a bit of excavation there and figure out What was going on I think the story is going to go back further and further into the past is there any evidence of of wood structures like did they make buildings out of wood back then um not that I'm not that I'm aware of when did people start using wood as a structure I think you can

I think you can trace wood back as a structure hundreds of thousands of years but but they when did they start using it in like if you if you see like the ancient Mayan Civilizations the what you find in the Amazon you don't find ancient wood structures do you I think that's largely an artifact of the fact that wood wood doesn't preserve very well right so how do we know that there weren't wood structures there may well have been these there may well have been which have which have just rotted away and and and and

gone May there may well have been wooden structures there cuz it kind of looks like foundations it does it Does look like foundations and it's it's just it's just a very weird thing but I think the main point is someone made it someone made it and it involved a very large amount of organized labor in order to make it there had to be the will and the intent in order to do that it's it's interesting that the patterns are geometrical and are they geometrical like with the perfect length and yes they're very they're very very

good fenda piranha and seina Kal cazan are Both aligned to True astronomical North that's different from Compass North that requires astronomy you can't you can't get True North without using astronomy so this tells us Not only was there a culture that was capable of creating large scale public projects but also they had astronomers amongst them H wow it's uh it's it's it's a good it's a good mystery the other thing is the geometrical patterns are very common uh experience in iwasa Visions in in Altered States Of Consciousness our culture tends to despise Altered States Of

Consciousness although fortunately that's changing but in the Amazon and and many indigenous cultures they're regarded as extremely important uh that we can't confine oursel to the the everyday Wide Awake State of Consciousness that requires us to inter face with the physical world there are other states of Consciousness which are also valuable and which bring teachings And it's just one of those facts that most people who drink iwasa most of the time some point will experience geometrical Visions so there's a there's a question is there is there a connection here between the use of iasa and

the geometrical patterns um there there's um a huge uh rock wall uh has been found in the Colombian Amazon Sara Dela lindosa which I'm hoping to get to this year 8 km long covered in rock paintings The Rock paintings are dated More than 12,000 years old they show uh extinct [ __ ] they show giant sloths which went extinct during the younger drers for example and they also show the kind of entities that are seen in iasa Visions they show the same sort of patterns the same geometric patterns that are seen in iasa so there's

a sense that do you have any images of this place um Sarah de de lindosa just connected to the yeah I don't have images of lad DOA on here oh maybe you Could Google it um but if if uh or give the plug back the plug back I was trying to Google it and I didn't find anything and I might have spelled or guessed wrong on Sarah how do you spell ITA laoso yeah let me just uh I got it I got it you got it yeah you're gonna have to give him the cord real

quick and then he'll give it back to you okay there you go um it's uh literally an an 8 kilm cine Chapel uh in the in the Colombian Amazon this the other thing I mentioned there's not a lot of rock in the Amazon where there is Rock they used it there's Rock paintings uh all over uh the Amazon where rock is available these kind of things yeah that's it um these These are characteristic of iwasa Visions but in this case they're more than 12,000 years old now does that prove they were using iasa 12,000 years

ago no but very more like a tryptamine vision though totally Totally it does suggest that some tryptamine was being accessed at that time and resulting in these in these uh Vision Visionary images boy they shitty drawers weren't they their drawing was terrible but bear in mind that they're they're clambering 100 feet up a sheer cliff in order to uh still guys do a better job ridiculous create these paintings those the people were so fat are those people or sea turtles what are those things It's really interesting to see so this is uh 11,000 how old

12,000 12,000 plus yeah yeah 12,000 plus years old it's interesting because if you see the paintings that they found in that cave in France those are 30 plus thousand years old oh yeah there paint there's paintings in in France if you go to chave you're looking 36,000 years old can you go to those Jam hollenstein stle in Germany that's that amazing Warner Herzog documentary they often have uh I Think it's was the cave of Dreams C Dreams yeah they they they often have uh we're looking at Lasco hang on on the yeah we're looking at

Lasco there the the bull painting there is interesting they were better artists they were they were I have to confess they this art is very good if you go Jamie if you go to the NPR the the painting of a bull one one step left from where you are that one um this is this is very interesting um there has been an argument made by uh A couple of astronomers that what is depicted there is the constellation of Taurus and that uh in itself is heresy because archaeologists who want to give everything to the Greeks

say that it was the Greeks who invented the constellations of the zodiac and and um not showing why do they think that that represents the constellation because of the six little dots which are not I think on the head I think there're somewhere behind not in this picture uh Which is often how the pades are seen they're seen actually there are seven playes um but often to the naked eye you see six uh and the positioning of the playes in relation to the constellation of Taurus is is the basis for that argument it could be

I'm I'm not sure it's so long since I've looked at this but I know that there are six six dots there uh so this cave art was going on all around the world it's found the some of the oldest art has been found in Indonesia you know oh here it is here's the yeah there's the there's the there's the playes the whole argument about the playes H um it's those dotts exactly on the ones you pointed to above above the back of the ball 1 2 3 4 5 six uh that is how the play

these are often seen with the naked eye can you go back to the other yeah there wow you know that's that's that it's an argument it's not accepted by by mainstream archaeology because of their narrative which is that These the the discovery of the constellations of the zodiac is given to the Greeks or perhaps to the Mesopotamians before the Greek it's not thought that any human culture could have noticed the constellations of the zodiac before that and that's really absurd because the constellations of the zodiac are on the path of the sun the sun rises

against the background of a different constellation every month uh and and how would the Ancients have Missed that especially since the skies were an everpresent phenomenon to them in a way that they are not to us right we're cut off from the skies by light pollution but the Ancients were not what a fascinating concept that they knew about the constellations 30 plus thousand years ago yeah and I believe they did and that and we see that again in in gockley teepe in pillar 43 in enclosure d uh you see a constellation that we recognize as

Sagittarius Brian And I were talking about uh one of the ancient versions of human beings and I just I sent him this the other day because I read this article that I thought was amazing where it was talking about um they they found Stone wooden structures that were half a million years mhm that's right yeah so I'll send you this you sent that to me as well yes I did yeah this is uh very wild right because that's uh what is that well half A million species half a million years ago is pre- anatomically modern

humans right uh the earliest example of anatomically modern humans so far found is about 300,000 years and that's from uh Morocco uh but there's a new new thinking going on now what about the Neanderthals who we know that anatomically modern humans interbred with maybe the Neanderthals are just another anatomically modern human form maybe they're not they're not a Different species they're H homon neanderthalensis as opposed to Homo sapiens but maybe it was all one and they were different forms of human beings at that time if in that case these wooden structures would fit within the

Neanderthal time frame this is that same culture Jamie that uh Brian was telling us buried their dead in a very sophisticated way with had to crawl through these cave P cave Brian Brian was talking about H nedi I think this is H this is from this is from that's what they're talking about I I believe that's what they were talking about uh wooden structure from Zambia from Zambia homedi is in South Africa and it is fascinating and Lee Burger who I mentioned to you hom species similar to homon NTI yeah see homo how do you

say that word homti no the other one homo H High hiel bensis heidleberg something some remains found near heidleberg in Germany so this is what it says we don't know exactly what species made the structure but homo how do you say it again homo H bensis hiyal bensis or a species similar to homon NTI might be candidates yeah interesting soomi is is interesting that's the result of a of a National Geographic Explorer and res residence called Lee Burger uh And he as you discussed with Brian we won't go over it again but he found evidence

of of deliberate burial uh in a very Complicated difficult cave system which you can hardly access um and and uh of course immediately this was published and it was published in a Netflix documentary The archaeological establishment descended on him like a ton of bricks and and tried to find all kinds of reasons why it couldn't possibly be uh deliberate burial whereas I think it would be much more interesting if archaeology tried to first of all look at all kinds of Reasons why it could be deliberate burial because that opens many doors whereas saying no it's

impossible just closes closes all the doors well what are the alternative explanations for why they had Mass burial sites inside of a cave they fell there something like that all of them yeah all of them many many years and somehow buried themselves under the top soil uh and then left Engravings on the cave walls which are which are very very similar to Engravings that we find in in the caves of France for example well it does makees sense though that ancient human species would slowly learn the things that we learned they would slowly pick up

tool making they would slowly pick up the ability to harness fire and that as time went on as the species became more sophisticated and more advanced as it evolved it would just refine those methods yeah that that that does make sense the question is when did it happen This is why this is why I sometimes wear a T-shirt and I did on the last show with you which says things just stuff just keeps on getting old yes uh and a lot of people don't understand what I mean by that but what I mean by it

is that archaeological discoveries are constantly pushing Horizons back but not considering the implications of that wasn't so long ago that anatomically modern humans were thought to be just 50,000 years old now If if anatomically modern humans with the modern brain with our capacities and abilities have only existed for 50,000 years that doesn't leave a lot of room for A Lost Civilization to come and go but then we find 196,000 years ago from Ethiopia and then more recently 300,000 years ago from Morocco and suddenly the expanses of time that have not been investigated in which a

civilization could have risen and Fallen become much greater and that's why it's important That stuff just keeps on getting older very fascinating also that the oldest known ones are from Africa yeah and obviously that's where Egypt is yes that's it that's exactly where Egypt is and and and uh you know we must we must recognize Egypt as an African culture yeah that is what the that is what the ancient Egyptians were uh I believe their language was belonged to the htic language family which is closely related to the Somali language for example in in In

in East Africa African culture incredibly sophisticated incredibly Advanced doing stuff that we just don't know how to do today archist will tell you they could build the Great Pyramid but I defy them to do that the Great Pyramid is literally impossible it's something that doesn't make any sense it certainly doesn't make sense as the tomb of a megalomaniac Pharaoh uh which is what we're told it was well it's also sort of the ultimate if you wanted to Leave behind evidence of your culture something that if there was a cataclysm and people did have to sort

of rethink the history of the world that would be the best thing to leave time capsule cuz it's so insanely sophisticated that you're forced to sort of reckon with this idea that something might have existed before us yeah definitely and it incorporates all all kinds of interesting math it incorporates Pi which again is supposed to have been Discovered by the Greeks uh it incorporates the dimensions of the Earth on a particular scale there there there's a lot about the Great Pyramid which suggests that it was intended to transmit information to the Future and that's one

of the reasons why it's so big and so enormous and why we keep on finding new Chambers and passageways inside the Great Pyramid there's a thing called scan pyramids which is now going on which is using Latest tech and they've identified a second Grand Gallery above the grand Gallery the the grand Gallery is one of the wonderful features of the Great Pyramid it's 30 ft High 120 ft long rising up through the center of the pyramid but now we know there's a second one above it that hasn't been explored yet and that's that's a result

of scan pyramids there's corridors and passageways that we didn't know were there so the Great Pyramid is gradually Bit by bit revealing its secrets and it's almost as though it was waiting for a Time when human beings were ready to receive those secrets and had and had the ability to decode them how do they access the second Grand Gallery scanning it's all I mean humans how can humans get into it well it could it could that's a very a very good question it's there the question is at what point was it made was it was

it part it should have been part of the original Construction of the Great Pyramid as they were building the Great Pyramid they created one grand gallery and they created another is it the same size it looks to be the same size yeah from the from the scanning which the scanning just shows a a void but I'm informed reliably that the the recent investigation has identified that void as another grand Gallery which is inside the Great Pyramid and the grand Gallery is one of the wonders of the world so it Could have artifacts in it it

could have artifacts in it same goes for those shafts that cut through the walls of the Queen's CH socalled Queen's chamber and King's chamber I I resist these names that archaeologists have applied to the Great Pyramid I resist the notion that it was the tomb of kufu uh I resist the notion that the Subterranean chamber which is 100 ft vertically beneath the base of the Great Pyramid was intended to be kufu tomb chamber but then they Just changed their minds and abandoned it and then they built the one that's now called the Queen's chamber that

was intended to be for kufu but they abandoned that as well then they went up the grand gallery and they created the so-called King's chamber and because it has a sarcophagus in it and for no other reason that is said to have been the original burial place of kufu it's not enough evidence in my view and the connections to kufu are from hieroglyphs Depicting his vision that if he uncovered the Sphinx he would become the pharaoh of Egypt isn't there something along those lines there is a there is something along those lines and it's thutmosis

I fourth or the third if I remember correctly in other words he's a later Pharaoh from the time of uh of the Old Kingdom uh and and he put between the paws of the Sphinx a Stellar which is called the dream stellar and in it he records a dream that he had that that Time the Sphinx was buried up to its neck in sand and the dream was that uh that he should clear the Sphinx the Sphinx requested him or ordered him to free it of sand and reveal it again in in its true form

this was at least uh 12200 years after the sphin is supposed to have been built 4,500 years ago but as you know Robert shock and I and and many others are convinced the Sphinx is much much older than that that it goes back 12,000 plus years and this is based On geological evidence of heavy rainfall which is another interesting thing about the climate and the environment of that area that we think of it as being desert but it one point in time it wasn't well this is this is one of the reasons why I'm so

frustrated by archaeologists claiming that they could know there was no Lost Civilization when they've done so little work in the Sahara when the Sahara was in a number of occasions during the Ice Age incredibly fertile very very nurturing environment with huge river systems running through it and lakes it's not disputed that that was the case it was a kind of environment that would have nurtured human civilization uh and we really can't write off the possibility of A Lost Civilization until we take a much closer much more detailed look at the Sahara of course that's expensive

and then Egypt itself is in the Sahara didn't they find fossilized Whalebones in the Sahara yeah that would go back a lot further that would go back to to millions of years to to a time when the oceans were different perhaps even hundreds of millions of years so Sahara at one point in time was an ocean as many places were pretty much anywhere where you find you find Limestone was was was once covered by by ocean the world has changed the world is constantly changing it's like it's like one of those magic kids toys where

you Pull pull a lever and it wipes out the diagram you just made you know um it just keeps on the world keeps on recreating itself and we human beings make our journey through this through this changing world and we we try to fix it and say this is how things were this is how things will be and it never cooperates with us on that just incredibly fascinating that the timeline when you go beyond the traditional timeline and you get back into where you And Robert shock have speculated the age of the Sphinx now you're

talking about a completely different environment of lush rainforest and many many many resources absolutely we're talking about a completely different and shock's evidence is of a thousand years of heavy rainfall that's what the Sphinx Bears witness to that it was already there when the Rains of the younger drar and the younger dryers affected the Sahara with heavy rainfall Just as further north it changed the climate and made it much colder in the Sahara it became much wetter uh and it's that period of rains that uh that are the most likely culprit for weathering the Sphinx

in the way it is but it could have stood there thousands of years before that there's also very clear evidence that the face in the spin is much younger right no doubt about that whatsoever the the evidence takes excuse me Frogg in my throat there's a little Cough button if you want to hit that you ever want to hit it do I have a cough button yeah you got a little red button there is that this red button here yeah if you feel it coming on just press that little sucker I'll I'll I'll I'll do

that where were we Joe um the Sphinx's face yeah much younger the first the first problem is the the ancient Egyptians were masters of proportion the the ancient Egyptian art is rightly world famous for it for its quality and They didn't get things out of prop portion uh they wouldn't make that Elementary error when they create this giant statue carving it out of solid Bedrock but the head of the Sphinx is way too small in relation to the body it just it looks like like the head of a pin it doesn't it doesn't fit with

that 270t long 70 foot high body uh it looks very much as though the Sphinx once had a much larger head can you show us a photo of it Jamie it's also much less Weathered right and it's much less weathered and and this is again where egyptology tries to attach the Sphinx to a particular period egyptology claims that's the face of cfre who was the successor to kufu uh it doesn't look like any statues known statues of cfre that I can see but let's not let's let's let's not worry about that uh it it it

wears um uh the headdress that's worn by the Sphinx best looked at in the picture top left or or the quora picture uh that That that headdress uh is called the nemis headdress it's the classic headdress of an Egyptian pharaoh uh not in my view cfre uh but the headdress of an Egyptian pharaoh but it's on a head that is way too small by comparison with the body and and both shock and I and John Anthony West Manu seada who's another excellent researcher in this field we all feel that the Sphinx was almost certainly a

complete Lion at one point it was a lion with a huge man uh And that that head sticking up above the plateau got very heavily eroded and by the time the ancient Egyptians inherited it they decided to improve it a little bit to cut down that heavily eroded head and put the head of a pharaoh on it does it have the same sort of sophisticated proportions where they're perfect left and right as some of the other statues do which is another incredible mystery that when they look at the measurements of these immense statues somehow or

Another they're completely symmetrical on both left and right sides completely symmet um I'm I'm actually not sure whether that's the case with the Sphinx I wouldn't be surprised because I have no doubt whatsoever that the head of the Great Sphinx was carved by the ancient Egyptians who made those who made those statues but the question is what was it carved from what was it cut down from right uh so the geology the the Precipitation in Juice weathering is one of the evidence pieces of evidence for a much older Sphinx but the other thing is the

astronomy the the fact that the Sphinx is an equinoctial marker you know if you stand looking due east at Giza or anywhere in the northern hemisphere uh on the Spring Equinox uh there's three key moments of the year four actually there's the winter and summer solstice and there's the equinoxes the spring and fall equinoxes on the summer solstice The sun rises far to the North of East on the winter solstice it rises far to the south of East but on the equinoxes it aligns perfectly due east and that's what the Sphinx is it's aligned perfectly

to Jew East and it's gazing at the Horizon and then we come to this contentious issue of who discovered the zodiacal constellations because the Sphinx 12 and a half thousand years ago was gazing at dawn on the Spring Equinox at the constellation of Leo in other Words this lion Monument on the ground was looking at its own Celestial counterpart in the sky egyptologists dismiss that they say the nobody had any idea of the constellations until the Greeks I just think they're I think they're wrong so astronomy and geology together combine to invite us to consider

the possibility that the Sphinx may be much older than 4,500 years old and didn't the the Greeks learn from the Egyptians as well not only did they Learn but they said they learned yeah so the Greeks were very honest about it they they they sat at the feet of the ancient Egyptians they said they learned everything they knew from the ancient Egyptians but somehow archaeology has Rewritten The Narrative and and gives far too much to the Greeks ancient Greek was a wonderful culture magical culture beautiful beautiful beauti work but a relatively recent culture and and

it was channeling Knowledge from much earlier Times in a way uh ancient Greece is the is the meeting point between the Lost ancient world and the modern world in which we live and that's why the Greeks and the Greek texts are so useful to us and that's why I think the Atlantis story is very important story well it's also we do that today if you look at the Lincoln Monument yeah and you look at the Parthenon I mean we mimic ancient Greek architecture today absolutely yeah yeah we're still we're still copying it And what were

the ancient Greeks copying they were copying the Egyptians it just completely makes sense yeah go to go to the Temple of knak go to the Temple of Luxor you're looking at the model for the later Greek temples they they they followed that example and they were honest about it it's it's modern archaeology that has kind of Rewritten the story and given way too much to the Greeks when you say that uh and gockley tape the speculations that the stone Tools yes um is there any evidence of uh bizarre cutting like they find in Egypt where

it looks like they're using some sort of a cylindrical drill or whether it looks like the stone is somehow scooped out in some method that we don't understand I've not seen evidence of a cylindrical drill at GOC tappy but what you do see I'm going to press that red button there you go what you do do see at Golee uh is pillars with carvings in relief on them uh dimensional threedimensional carvings which stand out that means that all of the stone around the carving had to be cut away it wasn't a matter of inzing the

carving into the stone you had to remove the stone around it and leave it standing standing proud much more sophisticated and it's much more sophisticated and it's on the oldest so far identified pillar in gocke which maybe Jamie can Call up it's pillar 43 uh in enclosure d at gockley tee uh which is any chance of getting that up second it's uh it's a remarkable piece of ancient art it's definitely 11,600 years old so often uh yeah the the Tey telegrams for example will show it that's on the right there another wonderful piece of relief

carving uh but there pillar 43 uh this this vulture uh is in exactly the position of the constellation of Sagittarius uh and the disc over its Wing suggests the sun against the background of the constellation of Sagittarius below it we have a scorpion so like the constellation of Scorpio and roughly in the right place above it we have a serpent uh descending a bit like ofes uh it seems to speak to a knowledge of astronomy at an ancient time again it's controversial but a lot of work has been has been done on this but the

point is the carving of that is highly sophisticated uh at 11,600 years old That creature whatever it is Jamie that one that's sort of black and white that image uh in the center says Visual Arts cork yeah click on that one that one's amazing it's amazing they cut away the whole pillar to leave to leave that creature there which itself is is is hard to identify is it a crocodile um we found something very similar in in Peru as a matter of fact well the proportions are off for a crocodile looks more like a cat

yeah I I think it looks more like Some kind of feline but uh exactly what creature it is something with a tail yeah it's hard to identify when you know this is all so interesting to me and when these people are trying to date this to 11, 800 years ago and say that people only had stone tools how do they speculate that these people did this stuff um you can you can do stuff with stone tools so they used harder Stone to of this Stone that's the argument and They is there evidence of these Stones

no not that I'm aware of there are there are there are some so-called pounding stones but I find it difficult to see how pounding Stones how pounding away could have created this very fine result uh it doesn't make a whole a whole lot of sense to me it's the same with um uh with with the incredible work that you find at kusco and Sak Haman in Peru again they're not supposed to have had this is supposedly recent I think it's Much older the Incas not supposed to have had uh metal tools they're supposed to have

done all the work with stone tools I think it's a reach I think we're I think we're looking at a technology we don't understand so one of them looks like a wild boar that one to the left P yeah looks like of wild Bo yeah definitely so that's identifiable which is interesting when you look at the other ones that aren't that identifiable yeah yeah some of them are identifiable Yeah I don't know what that what's that one supposed to be that's a fox a fox uh but but interestingly coming out of it are these streamers

uh and my colleague Martin swatman from the University of Edinburgh has has suggested that that is uh representing meteors uh coming down from the sky those streamers out of the tail of the fox and the fox was a constellation what's that little fell right there Jamie it says uh in Turkey right to the left of your curse yeah Right there what's that a human form is that another one from somewhere else no no that's that's I'm I'm not not sure which site that is from it could be from gockley tee judging by the feline figures

beside it let's find out ad Brooker oh you got us you got to subscribe yeah oh was the ab blocker too complicated is it letting you go back okay how do they We we have those images from ancient Sumer which are 6,000 years old or so that show what appears to be the solar system so how do they well first of all let's remember ancient Sumer was in Mesopotamia yes and Mesopotamia the Greek word means between the rivers and the rivers referred to are the tigis and the Euphrates and where is gocke Right Between the

headwaters of the tigas and Euphrates rivers here it's hard to grasp relief of man holding his phus found in Turkey uh which site which site San leop is the big city nearby that's where you need to go if you want to go to gockley tee not saying which site it was can I see that image it could it could be karahan tee uh where I've been but I haven't seen that figure that's that's it looks like he's covering his fouls like he's embarrassed or maybe he's pregnant look maybe he's the first pregnant man we don't

know uh we don't know we don't know what it means but He's definitely holding his dick it seems like it seems like maybe he's peeing no something else what is he doing what is he doing I don't know and we don't know the the problem is no written texts have come down to us from that time so everything in a sense is speculation what isn't speculation is the dating uh I have grave doubts about carbon dating in many cases uh because carbon dating doesn't date stone it dates organic materials uh so the notion That you

can date a megalithic site with carbon dating is questionable right away but what tends to be done is that you look for a piece of organic material that is so associated with the megalith you want to date that you can say or propose that they come from the same period of time I have that problem with the huge moai statues in Easter iseland they're not carbon dated what's carbon dated is the platforms they stand on and there's a lot to suggest that those Platforms are much later than the original statues and the statues were re-erected

on those on on those platforms in the case of gockley teepe one of very special things about it is that it was deliberately buried they ran that site for about a thousand years from 11,600 to say 10,600 years ago and then they closed it down and they went to great effort to fill up all the enclosures with rubble and to create a hill over the top of it uh and that's Why gocke then remained untouched for the next 10,000 years there's no danger of contamination with younger carbon from a later culture the fact that they

found carbon in enclosure 40 in in enclosure d right by pillar 43 dated to 11,600 years ago does firmly connect that that place to 11,600 years ago there are later dates from Quebec tee it wasn't all built in one go but it stopped around a thousand or maybe 1,200 years after it started as though they As though they had achieved what they wanted to achieve the population had all become agriculturalists we move on into the holos scene into the Modern Age and it's that moment of transition following an enormous cataclysm that really fascinates me so

if they attribute the constellations to ancient Greece what do they say about the clay tablets from Sumer um I've not seen any archaeologist who attributes knowledge of the constellations to to the ancient That's a bit too late the Babylonians maybe pull that image up because this image has always been wild to me because it kind of shows a a sun in the center and then it shows all of the planets in our solar system and relatively the correct sizes relatively I wouldn't be surprised by that in terms of what's the bigger one what's the smaller

one I think the Ancients had uh or certain peoples amongst the Ancients did have a very Good idea about our solar system and about the dimensions of the earth uh and about the other planets uh in our solar system again this is something that archology has dismissed but I think it's a possibility that's worthy of inquiry um no it's not that one that's that's a different one it's the yeah that's it there there we go so there's the Sun and it's surrounded by the planets that we're aware of yeah it's kind of hard to interpret

that any other Way isn't it I mean it seems it seems like that's what it is it seems like the solar system I mean even the way the sun is depicted is the way a little kid depicts the sun yeah yeah and and and and it's also depicted as a star as well as the sun the Circ disc of the sun and the Sun is a star so it's such a strange the suggestion is much greater knowledge of the universe than is supposed to have existed at that time and this is Sumer Sumer is the

supposedly the the first Civilization the oldest civilization on earth goes back about 6,000 years um but then what about the prequels to Sumer and let's take gockley into account because it's so close to Sumer and by the way just within a few hundred kilometers of go gocke is Abu H Herrera where there is compelling evidence of a massive air burst 12,800 years ago and a complete wipe out of the local population I don't think it's an accident that GOC tee is where it is is There um images of this uh explosion in the sky there

an artist's impression of the explosion in the sky but do they have ground like you can see with tunguska where it's all flatten yes ancient massive amount of evidence on the ground uh particularly what what is called shocked quartz where the quartz has been melted at temperatures in excess of 2,000 deges Centigrade this is not caused by Village fires this is this is the characteristic fingerprint of a Cosmic impact Platinum iridium carbon microspherules all of these impact proxies are found in abundance at Abu Herrera is there a cleared area that's similar to what looks like

inusa where it does problem with Abu H Herrera is that it's now underwater the Aswan High Dam flooded it but before it was submerged an enormous amount of material was taken from it and it's that soil that was taken from Hab Abu Herrera to preserve it which is producing the Evidence of a younger Dr impact there 12,800 years ago so when was it this damn when did this take place 60s something like that oh no something like that I think Abu Herrera has been underwater since since the 60s or certainly the 70s maybe the 70s

what a bummer what a bummer but but but in this case thank you archaeology for for for preserving soil and materials from that site uh which allow this allow this work to be done there's no doubt that a Cataclysmic event took place there there just a whole bunch of new papers published in the last two or three weeks on Abu Herrera uh which are which are further consolidating this this evidence that it was subject to a very large air burst and that after that within the Thousand to 2,000 years after that just as at gockley

tee the local population transitioned from Hunter Gathering to agriculture it's fascinating to me how when you go to these sites and you see These uh the where where these ancient structures existed and imagine the climate and what a major factor that plays in what human beings do and what they're able to do whether they're able to thrive because there's an abundance of resources and then it seems those the places where they create these incredible structures like the Mayans yeah and where you go to a place like North America 20,000 years ago was unbelievably inhospitable was

terrifying And filled with all sorts of predators massive Predators much like parts of Africa right I mean we had a North American lion which is bigger than the African Lion North American cheetah there was all sorts of the short-faced bear there's Sab Tigers all sorts of animals that would make it really difficult to thrive you don't want to meet one of those no um so it makes sense that the people that lived there didn't have the sort of technological Sophistication that maybe people had in in the where where G the northern part of North America

is uh certainly the area that was under the ice cap until 11,000 years ago waste of time looking for any sign of A Lost Civilization there northern Europe waste of time because it was also a frozen Wasteland but the areas closer to the Equator once you get down into the Southern States of America of North America get yourself into Mexico get yourself to the Yucatan The Maya culture then you're then you're looking at at a place where civilizations could really grow and flourish yeah that's what's really interesting about the just the history of North America

in general is that you know when you look at how the Native Americans existed and the way they lived you know uh just a few hundred years ago that seems to be like like an artifact of what life was like before that yes uh I think we we must give full credit to Hunter gatherer civilizations who might do a bit of Agriculture on the side these are the masters of survival on our planet right not us they were the ones who kept the species alive they were the ones after the younger dras who kept the

species alive in my in my view because they knew how to survive and I've made this point before but if such a cataclysm were to occur to our civilization today and I don't think it would take much to bring our Civilization down a full-scale nuclear war end of the story for for technological civilization of the 21st century um another comet impact something like the younger dry is happening again sudden sea level rises consider how many cities we have built along Co lines a 30ft sea level rise would destroy them and and uh the psychological nature

of our civilization is very entitled we tend to feel we've got it all made we take it all for Granted we we we're not equipped to think about disaster descending upon us so so if such a thing were to occur and God forbid that it does those survivors from our industrialized technological Society those who made it through would be smart to go take Refuge amongst hunter gatherers they would be the ones who would preserve them and allow them to continue forwards and maybe in that process there would be an exchange of information just as the

survivors of Industrial civilization would learn from hunter gatherers so also they might some have something to teach to hunter gatherers and I think that's what happened 12,800 years ago well it seems like there's so much compelling evidence that that's the case I just I get so puzzled and baffled by the resistance to it CU it's just interesting well if it's right it pulls the rug out completely from under the feet of archaeology and that's why there is resistance to it all Human beings are territorial in their own way and and archaeologists are no exception they're

they're they're territorial they've defined their territory they see a gradual slow steady evolution of human society uh and uh they think that we were at a relatively simple stage uh during the so-called Stone Age and we just gradually got more and more sophisticated and it's appealing idea and it makes it makes sense in lots of ways but there isn't Room in that for an earlier civilization to have emerged and been destroyed and that's why the idea is is attacked because if that idea were true then the foundations on which archaeology has built the house of

History would collapse that's so unfortunate so unfortunate that they just don't jump in and and enjoy these new discoveries in a way redefine things in a way I've been I've been glad to have received the vituperative level of attack from Archaeology that I did because it shows I've pressed their buttons it shows that uh it shows there's something they feel they need to cancel here there's something they feel they need to get rid of it's the most dangerous show on television the most dangerous Show on Netflix an absurd idea uh really crazy but but that's

that's cancel language you know that's the language you use also you call somebody anti-semitic or or racist or or white supremacist or Misogynic all of those are are easy labels which these days just need to be applied to a person nobody even investigates or goes look that works less and less now than it ever has before CU I think people are catching on yeah people are catching on it's pretty clear and also the belief that everything they read is true especially from mainstream media that's been grossly eroded this is one of the reasons Why I'm

going to press that cough button this is one of the reasons why my work has not been cancelled and hasn't disappeared because archaeology dislikes it because the general public today distrust experts and with good reason there's a good reason to distrust distrust experts we've been told so many lies by experts over such a long period of time uh they so often are confident absolutely certain that they're right and they turn out later to be to be Wrong that any intelligent person begins to wonder are these experts really the only people we should listen to and

anyone way I want to think for myself I don't want to be told what to think by a group of authority figures called archaeologists I want a diverse range of information and then I will draw my conclusions from it I'm not speaking of me I'm speaking of the the general public and I think that that attitude is growing but at the same time there still Is a slavish adherence to the words of experts uh and and we've seen that again and again in in in recent years you know science says it's so therefore it must

be so well no science is a work in progress science often gets things wrong and because science says something is so doesn't mean it is so it shouldn't be a religion it shouldn't be like a a dictate from from a high priest it should be one bit of information that is supplied to the Public to make up their own minds on what's also the reality of your book in 1995 being dismissed and now you see so much evidence it shows that it's true that's got to be very satisfying for you it is that as time

is has gone on more and more of what you were yeah it is it is it is satisfying to me for example when I published Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 there was a whole constellation of evidence which suggested that something Bad had happened to the Earth around 12,500 years ago but the younger dras impact hypothesis didn't exist then uh so I looked into a number of possibilities that might have resulted in a cataclysm at that time then that was 19 95 2007 the younger dras impact hypothesis comes out 60 60 major scientists published in

all the big mainstream journals proposing that the Earth went through an absolutely catastrophic episode between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago exactly the window that I was proposing uh so yes that's uh that's that's very pleasant to see the discovery of gocke uh you know gbec tee they began excavations in 1996 a year after I published Fingerprints of the Gods um but those excavations began to become public knowledge in the 2000s and and uh the fact that we now have a giant sophisticated megalithic site sitting in turkey and not alone karahan Tei there's About 10 other

sites in that same in that same neighborhood again was not explained by the archaeology of 1995 it's something that fits better into the Paradigm that I've proposed that we're dealing with a lost episode in the human story it's also fascinating and somewhat terrifying that if the younger GI impact theory is correct and it really did reset human civilization think of how long it took for Sumer to emerge from Total barbarism thousand who knows what It was like for thousands of years thousands of years um survival I would suggest that there was a method of preserving

knowledge uh that that those survivors of the cataclysm uh were not just looking at their immediate time they were also looking to the Future how can we pass down knowledge to the Future and one of the ways you can pass down knowledge to the future is something like the Great Pyramid which so big it can't be destroyed and another way you Can pass down knowledge to the future is in wonderful stories that people will keep on telling and those stories may contain scientific information the Storyteller doesn't even need to know that information as long as

he or she tells the story true the information will be passed on and we are a storytelling species so that's why I take myths very very seriously I think they are important evidence of our past I think Archaeology is making a mistake In ignoring myths and it needs to pay much much more attention to them now surely there's been positive reactions to the Netflix show I've had masses of positive reactions from the general public uh and and and those reactions seem to say that people people loved the show and it was a big hit on

Netflix it got it got you know number number one for quite a while it did it was very very successful series The the public reaction to it is very positive I'm I've Been in I've been writing about these possibilities since the early 1990s uh the possibility of A Lost Civilization the first book that really put me on the map and that immediately attracted a lot of criticism was Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 and then from public appearances later on appearing on your show in 2011 people began to know my face and I began to

be seen and recognized people would come up to me in various places often Because they'd seen me on your show since the Netflix show that recognition Factor has increased enormously in in every airport I go to I'm stopped people want to take pictures with me which I'm delighted to do because I would be nothing without my readers I I I I I'm not some special person I'm a Storyteller and it's the readers who give those stories value and who decide whether they're worth listening to or or not and I'm always grateful to people Who read

my books and and and watch my TV and I try to show that when I meet people but the recognition Factor has gone up enormously uh since since the Netflix show and that recognition Factor again and again I'm stopped in the street and I'm told we loved your show I was even stopped by an archaeologist in the street in the city of B where I live inland he must have been younger actually she was in her 50s and and and she was with her family and and she said I just want you to know that

not all archaeologists hate your work uh I found your work very very useful that's nurturing that's encouraging to me to hear to hear that kind of thing and um at the same time the the criticism itself I think there's an old saying you know when you get a lot of flack tells you you're over the target yeah uh and and I think I am over some kind of Target here truth will truth will come out in due course whether it happens in My lifetime or much later I don't know but I'm sure we're missing a

part of our story my fear is that it's going to repeat itself and we're not going to learn before it happens that's an unfortunate character of the human race that we do not we do not learn from past mistakes uh and and uh you know we live in a world now dominated by hatred uh dominated by competing nationalisms dominated by competing religions uh I I have no time for for and this is going to annoy some folk but I have no time for the for the mainstream monotheistic faiths Christianity Judaism and Islam uh I think

that the three of them are are behind so much of the trouble and chaos and hatred in the world it's okay to have your religious Faith that's great but to say my faith is right and your faith is wrong that's the first step on the road to ruin and that's what's and that's what's Happening today is these exclusive religious ideas that that compel people to behave in really obnoxious ways towards each other there's nothing more dangerous than ideas sometimes and and ideas have driven so much of the conflict in the world look at the ideas

behind Hitler's rise to power and and and and the conflicts that people bought into those ideas and it led to disaster and that is happening in the world today most unfortunately it's exactly Happening that's what's so terrifying and if a full scale nuclear war does happen God help us God help us I mean there might not be a human race to reinvent itself it's perfectly possible we could become completely extinct um and and nature has a way of doing that it happened to the dinosaurs too well the chickens survived uh but nature got rid of

the dinosaurs they they were not fit to survive in the new world that was created by the that Impact uh six million years ago they were not suited for survival in that world and we may not be suited for survival in this world largely through our own behavior and our own mad obsessions with ideas that are filled with hatred and and lead us lead people to despise one another instead of looking for the best in one another I've been lucky enough to travel extensively all my working life live in many different countries and and I

have no Doubt that people are the same all over the world the same hopes the same fears the same dreams I love the cultural diversity of humanity this is one of the beautiful things about the human race so many different cultures bring different important pieces to the party uh I love that I would never seek to get to get rid of that but underneath that cultural diversity we are human beings we love our families we have hopes and Ambitions for the future we have dreams all of us Do whatever side of a particular argument we're

on you get down to that basic level we're all the same and and what I believe what unites us as a species is much more significant than what divides us and we need to start paying less attention to what divides us and more attention to what unites us and to celebrate our diversity at the same time without saying my diversity is better than yours it's just so difficult for that message to get through when you Have these governments and these groups of control that that have the narrative that they speak to whe whether it's like

North Korea where they completely control it or there United States where it's a lot of propaganda and they have control of the mainstream media it's much more subtle in the United States but it's still control still mind control it's control and it's unfortunate that that's still the way human beings are behaving in this age of Information yeah that we're forced into these paradigms we're trapped by these systems very much so that existed essentially back when we were tribal cultures yeah yeah and you know the leader and the leader tells the group who the enemies are

and this is the same [ __ ] that's been going on forever the same [ __ ] and and and also the notion that we need leaders at all uh is a questionable notion in my mind I'm not sure human beings do need Leaders we need administrators organizers we live in large complex societies there there's a need for organization but Leaders with Charisma with power who impress others of their ideas and attract a following that is the road to ruin that is that is what we're on at the moment we see all I don't see

a single leader anywhere in the world right now who I like or who I feel attracted to or I feel who offers some some hope I think you had Robert Kennedy Jor on the show to me he's an interesting American politician I don't I I don't know a whole lot about American politics but he seems to be a free thinker um my litmus test for any leader in an advanced industrialized country is what's his position on drugs what's his position on the War on Drugs his or her position uh are they going to maintain this

this strict control this this this legal penal penalties for people choosing to alter their own State Of Consciousness or are they going to realize that our Consciousness is fundamental to what we are as human beings and that we as adults must have the Sovereign right to make choices about our own Consciousness including taking drugs even if those choices annoy others we should still have the right to make those choices and I don't see many politicians who are saying actually what we should do is legalize all drugs I think we should I think I think all

Drugs should be legalized and then accompanied with wise advice there's no evidence that that the War on Drugs has had any success in in controlling the you there are dangerous drugs there are drugs that I would not advise people to take but the way to do it is not to impose Draconian penalties on people for exploring their own Consciousness the way to do it is to offer wise advice which people take seriously right now the advice that that comes out of drug Agencies around the world is not wise advice and everybody knows it's stupid and

they don't they don't go along with it so a politician who says I'm going to legalize all drugs and I'm going to accompany it with wise advice that will help people to make informed decisions and yes like other things in our society drugs should be limited to a certain age group I think the age of 21 is a good age I think teen teenagers can suffer quite badly from From drug use and I think it'd be a good idea if they didn't but I know from having had teenage children myself uh that teenagers will by

and large do what they want to do especially if you tell them not to especially if you tell them not to which is the problem with America versus Europe in regards to drinking yeah elaborate on that well in America you can't drink at all until you turn 21 and so drinking is this forbidden fruit that they get excited about if you go to Italy like uh young kids can drink wine they do it all the time and it's I don't think they have the levels of alcoholism that we do I'm sure they don't I'm I'm

I'm sure they don't I think there's a big part of human nature especially young humans they rebel against authority figures yes they don't believe you have it all figured out they see that you're flawed yeah they see that you're just a person you're just an older person but an older person that's Imparting your rule of law on them then they want to rebel often people when people react to my view on the War on Drugs which is we should throw it away and legalize all drugs they say but it'll be so dangerous terrible things will

happen if you legalize all drugs I'm sorry all drugs are already available illegally uh anybody can get access to them when they when they want to uh the War on Drugs has has not worked and cudos to those states in America what is it now 22 states that have legalized cannabis there's quite a few and some of them are even uh decriminalized sils Ian Oregon yeah yeah now this is this is very interesting and this this connects with a fundamental American value as I see it which is the value of individual Freedom right individuals adults

not children should be allowed to make decisions about their own health and their own bodies without some authority figure preaching to them Or even sending them to jail well not only that but authority figures that have no experience in these drug zero experience especially when they use the term drugs the problem with that term is it's a blanket that you throw over a bunch of different psychoactive substances that have wildly different results and non psychoactive substances cuz aren't aren't pharmacies called drugstores in America yeah yeah well and they do have drugs I mean they are

Selling sanctioned drugs yeah many pharmacutical drugs are are very heavyweight and very very very dangerous the anti-depressants for example uh I've had experience with anti-depressants they're horrible seroxat and proac back in the '90s I had a long depression they didn't help me they made me worse uh and and uh I've been people ask me I I advise them stay away from the selective seroin and reuptake Inhibitors they are they are not good things uh but of Course if somebody wants to take them that's also their free choice well there's also Real Results that show that

when you're exercising it's 1.25 times more effective than taking ssris for depression yeah yeah a regular exercise is one of the most effective methods of mitigating some depression I mean there's there's different levels of depression clearly and some of it seems to be chemical and there's a lot of Mis confusion and misunderstanding about That even yeah yeah but but no doubt exercise is is extremely helpful I know if I take a long walk I feel much better after the walk than I did than I did before I don't do it enough I need to do

it more I need to start practicing what I preach yeah I do it regular if I don't it drives me nuts I I feel the difference if I take a couple of days off is this creeping level of anxiety that that enters into me yeah weird discomfort with the world and when I Exercise that goes away yeah it's like for me it's real clear it's like just as a physical medicine it's something that I need to do it's definitely the the first stop if you're trying to get rid of depression it's so bizarre that a

culture that makes things like psilocybin illegal legalizes opiates legalizes prescription use of opiates and if you've seen any of the doc like the Netflix series painkiller is a great example of what they did to get the Entire country on board with this idea that pain is something you should manage with opiates on a regular basis and stay on it terrible idea it's nuts terrible idea it's nuts and that same culture making s and very often what happens is that the individual who's been prescribed opiates for pain the doctor withdraws a prescription then they have to

go on the black market to to to acquire it yeah if they become addicted and they start abusing it then they have To go find it somewhere else and that's where you got the whole thing a disastrous mess um at my age which is now 73 um I can't avoid being aware that my time on this planet is limited um my work my studies my experiences over the years have left me with absolutely no fear of death I do regard it as the beginning of the next great adventure uh it's something that uh I think

is going to be fascinating and interesting but can I just finish I fear pain I do fear Pain really severe pain the pain of a a lingering terrible cancer for example if I found myself in that situation that's an appropriate situation to take opiates their their heroin and heroin derivatives can be useful in the management of pain uh but otherwise I would steer I would steer completely clear of them but yeah the next great adventure what do you think that is when you say the next great where where are you getting this belief from and

what What do you think it is a lot of it comes from the I've done with aasa over the years it goes back to a near-death experience I had in my late teens massive electric shock I left my body was up around the light saw myself slumped on the floor and then I came back into my body but from that moment I doubted whether I am just my body or whether there's more to me than than that more to all of us than that ancient Egyptian ideas about this realm being a Theater of experience where

we come come to learn and to grow and de develop we we we are obliged constantly every day to make choices and those choices Define us and those choices may be very small or they may be very large uh but we are learning hopefully from from these and I just don't think that this is an accident I don't I this is my belief system uh I don't commit to any of the monotheistic faiths but this is my belief system that this is a special Place that we are here to learn and to grow and to

development in a world has consequences where there will be consequences to the decisions that we make uh I like the Buddhist idea uh of going through multiple incarnations uh and uh eventually eventually reaching a state of perfection where you Embrace Nirvana but some come back the bod satas they choose not to go to Nirvana they come back as teachers to teach human beings how to better and and improve Their lives that that idea is uniquely terrifying to people that you live life over and over again till you get it right and I don't necessarily understand

why because I have the initial impulse to be terrified of it as well but yet I really enjoy life yeah like I If I had to do this one again like I probably wouldn't like my childhood but my childhood made me who I am today yeah even all of my the bad experiences and mistakes that I've made I really wish I Didn't make them but I did and they make me who I am today and you learned from them I learned from them I understand life better because of mistakes yeah exactly and you know people

often times dwell on mistakes and think that that defines them and it can be a real problem particularly with young people that are insecure that have had like some sort of a disastrous thing happen like uh business failure being fired become a drug addict go to jail whatever Whatever it is steal something and then you're defined by the worst mistakes that you've made and that becomes you forever which you may have made in a state of complete immaturity where you didn't even really fully understand what you were doing often times it's the case yeah and

you know even older people that make mistakes like you this idea that you should know by a certain time like look this is a constant evolving Adventure that we're all on and if You're a person who's 35 years old and you feel like oh my God how could I [ __ ] this up so bad at 35 I'm such a loser like no this is just what happens with humans is these are mistakes like people make mistakes and you got to be able to rebound and learn from it and that's the process of growth and

that's the only way it gets to you it's the only way it gets to you and it's really important to be able to make mistakes and to and to learn from them and that's another Problem with leadership which is that they the whole leadership structure seeks to protect us from making our own Sovereign decisions about about our lives and and uh to to deny us the opportunity to make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes we all got be these perfect creatures that go through life producing and consuming and not causing any trouble I think

in regards to drugs We There is a realization there there's a reality rather that if we do Make drugs legal for everyone there are going to be people who try drugs that would not try them if they were illegal because now they are sanctioned and that there will be a period of time where human beings are going to have to figure out what what to do and what not to do and adjust and hopefully they could do this without propaganda hopefully they could do this without drug commercials that tell them what's good and what's bad

I mean the I the fact that we still Allow them to advertise drugs on television is so bizarre because what they're doing is Romancing you yeah into the idea that this is your solution and often times it's for for people that are depressed or for people that you know like and then you see these people at the cookout having a great time because they took this pill I know you're like I want to go to the cookout it's propaganda but it's strange that that is legal because human beings are so easily Influenced by advertising by

having some associated with joyous music and and these images of people having this festive Gathering and laughing together and and you're in a dark place and you see that like that's what I want and it's just trickery this weird game that we're allowed to play on people it's money-making trickery that's what it is I mean the pharmaceutical companies are the biggest drug pushers in the world uh literally literally and they and they Get full governmental support yeah in order to in order to do that uh why why are anti-depressants out there uh because anti people

get less efficient when they're depressed so anti-depressants make them perhaps although I don't think antidepressants work they certainly didn't work for me uh perhaps make them more m valuable more amable members of society uh alcohol isn't too much of a threat to society yeah it's a very dangerous drug It causes thousands of deaths it causes violence it causes Road accidents uh but it doesn't challenge the status quo right people are not you know drinking a beer or a bottle of wine and and having thoughts that are anti-establishment that's tends not to be what happens right

whereas the psychedelics they do challenge the status quo they do they do lead people and I've seen this again and again and it's been the case with me to question the existing power structure in Society and to say there must be something better there must be there must be some other way to do things than the way we're we're doing them now it also makes you very aware of the Frailty of human consciousness in regards to like everyday life like what what that there's a mechanism there's a wiring there's something underneath that that's so much

more profound that ties us all together in some very bizarre way and it's seemingly unavailable during normal States of Consciousness because we evolved as a as a species that needed to survive and you can't be dwelling on you know whether how you connect with nature and the the the the the way human beings communicate with each other when you're just trying to eat and live you're trying not to get eaten by cats or raided by a foreign tribe and that's that's why probably these these states are so inaccessible to normal Consciousness cuz we would have

never made it this far if we were just but it's interesting that these that these states have only been demonized in the last 60 70 years they weren't demonized before that well that we allowed the goofiest government ever the Nixon administ Administration def the7 yeah literally and to stop the Civil Rights Movement to stop the anti-war movement it's literally why they did it it's a very it's a very sinister sinister Process it's also the way it captured the public zeit guys the the way it captured people's predetermined opinions on things because there's a certain group

of people that don't investigate things and they prescribe to a predetermined notion of what's good and bad and what is safe and not safe and what's the right way and the wrong way to do things and it's not a wellth thought out sort of philosophy it's something that they've just sort of Adopted and they've adopted from their culture and our culture has some very very goofy ideas literally based on what happened during the hippie movement and the Nixon Administration and then you know the all the subsequent propaganda that came after that like just say no

and this is your brain on drugs they're cooking eggs like yeah yeah yeah um it it's it's uh it's a very crazy situation that we that we confront with the with the war on drugs and fun fundamentally I Think there's a there's a there's an issue of human rights which which has just been completely neglected by the War on Drugs that we the government can tell you what to experience in the inner sanctum of your personality and we will allow certain drugs which happen to make huge amounts of money for our friends in the pharmaceutical

industry uh and we'll not only allow them we'll celebrate them and we'll advertise them in every possible way uh but other drugs uh we we We will we will not allow that's very unamerican America is a America is a country that that that celebrates and that enshrines individual freedom and I love that about America and one of the good things about the legalization of cannabis in whatever many states it is 20 20 plus is that all those prognostications all those warnings that legalization would lead to catastrophy turn out not to be true not at all

state by state America is proving that the War On Drugs is full of [ __ ] it's just time for the federal authorities to catch up yeah and it's time for the federal authorities to realize that this prohibition is bad for them as well yeah it's bad for the human species it's bad for you as an individual and that there there are experiences that are available and that have been known about for thousands of years all over the world that can help you grow as a human being absolutely not everybody some people Shouldn't take it

some people have all sorts of medical conditions and psychological conditions that don't make it safe for them but the way we find this out is by letting them be legal and letting people who understand them explain to people what the dangers are yeah develop protocols based on effective dosages and also explain what's what people can't do why they shouldn't do it what medications are you're on that you shouldn't take these Things absolutely there needs to be much broader information not this not this kind of closed-minded shut mouth society that we live in at the moment

it needs to change uh very very radically a friend of ours in the in the UK uh Amanda Fielding runs uh you've had her show She Wonderful lady uh she runs the Beckley foundation and they are they are Amanda has been very effective over the years in getting legislation changed and in funding Research into psychedelics And one of the things I know that Amanda is looking at is hospices that offer psychedelic therapy uh and I think that would be that would be very useful uh not you're not obliged to take the psychedelics it's a free

choice but they would be available in a setting with experienced practitioners who know what they're doing who know how best to offer these medicines uh to help people transition uh through the death process and it's been shown that particularly SOS I've been through these end of life fears that it's uh it has an amazing effect on has an amazing effect people people in a terminal condition with cancer who've been terrified of death stop being afraid of death anymore it's not consuming them anymore they they feel that they're part of something wider and larger and bigger

uh that this that this body this life this time and place is only an in an incident in a much longer story which is to me one of The weird things about rigid atheism this concept that uh the when your brain shuts off when your body dies Consciousness ends and it's just blank and it's just our ego that wants us to believe that there's something more and greater afterwards so annoying that well it's just Richard Dawkins yeah the selfish Jee he's responsible for a lot of that thinking well it's it's um they don't want to

buy into foolish and a lot of them believe that at least Some of the beliefs of organized religion are just mythical foolish Notions that people attach themselves to in order to comfort themselves but that they of the superior intellect don't need those Comforts that's right and they can embrace the darkness and their intellects are so Superior that they don't realizing that they themselves are practicing a religion yeah that is a religious belief if if a scientist says there is no life after death we are just Accidents of chemistry and biology that is not a statement

of scientific fact well it's also the most arogant OP the most arrogant ones are the ones that don't have the Psychedelic experiences that's true notice the people that have had psychedelic experiences they they waffle on those ideas a little bit they go well yeah I don't know what that was there's no doubt that psychedelic experiences change people uh and by and large they change people in a positive Way I'm not saying that drugs can't be harmful they can be I'm going to use that General word because it's just the word in our in our language

um but but by by and large the psychedelics are very positive uh in their in their effects and in their consequences which kind of brings me to the the issue of DMT uh DMT of course is the could could we plug in the HDMI cable Jamie um DMT is the active ingredient of iasa uh dthy tryptamine arguably the Most powerful Visionary substance known to science uh I first encountered DMT in iasa uh in uh 2003 just let me type something in here my page has gone away perhaps it'll come back so this is interesting you

take your glasses off to see your computer better yeah because I've got another pair which are which are for closeup but I can't bother to put them on these are distance glasses I can see you clearly but everything here Everything here is a blur when are we going to fix that I don't know no backups there we go my friend Ari got his eyes fixed he got Lasix and then his eyes got worse yeah I I I do not they fixed they were fixed for a while and then as they you know macular degeneration continued

to set in they got bad again he's like what I got an operation went bad again this has happened to my wife Santa she's had she's had artificial retinas or Whatever they are put in and and it it helped for a while but now she's needing more more glasses to wear on them see these are my short distance glasses I have another pair in the middle uh so I've got three pairs it's a bit cumbersome but I I I will not have surgery for it have you ever taken supplements that uh help your uh macular

degeneration stop no I haven't should I yeah there's a pure encapsulations has something that I take called macular Support and it has a bunch of nutrients that are crucial to uh preserving eyesight would you would you text me a little bit of information on that yeah I have no affiliation with this company by the way no just something that I buy but they work for you yeah yeah yeah it stopped my my vision still sucks but it sucked up until a level and it didn't get worse that's good to know yeah and it didn't get

worse and it coincided with me taking supplements yeah just Being really religious about it yeah yeah yeah yeah um can I show you a couple more pictures sure uh what do you got here so that's my first experience with aasa I'm with Don Francisco Mones shuna who's an Amazonian Shaman in nikitos and this is 2003 and we are picking leaves from the shakuna bush uh it's called cotri veridis and that those leaves contain DMT um and then 20 years later here I am with Francisco again I've got less Hair and Francisco is definitely aged as

well uh and this was about 3 weeks a go I had a I had an iasa session then uh one of the most uh in some ways one of the most helpful sessions that I've ever had uh I suffer from migraines very bad migraine headaches they they're curse of my life I'm taking I'm taking uh a pharmacutical medication I carry it still everywhere with me which is a trip tan belongs to the class of medicines called trip Tans I take it as a nasal Spray and uh it will pretty much guaranteed stop a migraine within

two two hours so if I have to do public speaking or come on your show and if I were to get a migraine I could know within two hours I would be functional again if what is it what is a migraine like what does it feel like hell on Earth the worst conceivable pain it starts often on one side of the head and it just grows and grows and grows and it completely dominates you and there's a Full body malaise and you feel sick and your stomach gets all knotted up and and if I don't

treat it I am looking at three to four days in a darkened room wearing an ey mask that I'm so sensitive to light the pain the pain is agonizing and I get the sense of those are one in the midst of a bad migraine and one of the few times I just feel life is not worth living get me out of here I just don't want any more of this so I rely on these trip Tans but triptans turn out to Be quite closely related to dthy tryptamine and uh on this let's put that that

that shot up again on this this session that I had with with Francisco uh I focused the whole session uh on please help me with my migraines that was that was the whole thing it was about uh and I didn't have the entity incounters and I didn't I didn't have many of the things that happened with aasa but I had uh this is going to sound nuts to people who think I'm nuts but I'm going to say it anyway I had a circle of serpents that appeared in front of me and they were all intertwined

around around each other and they came closer and closer to my forehead and in the middle of them was a bright light and it came right down onto my forehead and I started to feel afraid as one does in a deeply altered state of consciousness sometime and I was kind of backing off and I said I want this to stop and a voice said to me Just shut up and get out of our way we're trying to help you and I said okay I and I surrendered and I let it go the full the full

course the net result is that in the the three weeks since then when I might have taken 15 or 20 of those pharmaceutical medicines I've taken one just one uh and I can't help associating it directly with that uh with that iasa experience and focusing my intention uh on on that happening and and Francisco helping me With that as well so normally this migraine thing is a regular occurrence regular and it's got worse it started when I was about 19 and as I've got older many people it doesn't happen in my case it's just got

worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and it was a company need it's related to epilepsy I had a massive epileptic seizures back in 2017 I think I told you about it put me in induced coma for 48 hours it's a it's a I'm a neurological mess you know But I'm I'm I'm grateful to the fact that I've had three weeks now of relief from these horrific migraine symptoms and I can't help feeling that that this iwasa session had a lot to do with it and it's the DMT in iasa uh which is

which is undoubtedly the active ingredient the mystery and why it's science is that the other ingredient of the Brew is the awasa vine now taken orally neither the leaves that contain DMT nor the vine are psychoactive you Have to cook them together to get the psychoactive Brew called iasa and that's quite a miracle out of the tens of thousands of different species of plants and trees in the Amazon but these guys are the Amazon is their faracy they know every plant every tree they understand all their properties they're they're real experts in in in working

with with it and and the the the best people to work with I'm bringing this up because I would like to share some information if I may about new DMT projects that are going on sure um as you're aware the mainst stream is gradually beginning to embrace psychedelics we're finding far from being the demonized substances that uh Richard Nixon and Cole wanted us to believe they were that they're incredibly helpful to people whether it's with depression whether it's with migraines whether it's with end of life fears psychedelics are being tested and tried out in universities

all around the World and producing very very interesting results now I know Brian mentioned this on your show but there is this new technology which is extended DMT when when your eyes smoke DMT or vape it we're looking at a 10-minute trip uh it might linger a little bit longer than that but it comes on really fast it's ferociously powerful uh the sense of of entering a seamlessly convincing parallel realm is f ferociously powerful it can be scary but It's so overwhelming and so sudden and so enormous that by the end of it you kind

of wonder what happened there um it's hard to process the experience with extended release DMT which has been given either as an injection or as an intravenous drip you can keep Volunteers in the peak DMT state for an hour or more than an hour the peak state that you would get when you've just taken those four hits on the pipe that state can be extended for an hour or more if The volunteer wishes it many of the studies that are doing this now give the volunteers the op option to opt out and say I've had

enough I don't want I don't want more of this but by and large most people go through it so there's two projects which are now underway uh and one of them is at the University of California San Diego uh it was launched with a $1.5 million donation from philanthropy Eugene Jong I've put a link uh to a story there uh from uscd uh About this about this research but what he's doing is he's infusing psychedelic doses of intravenous DMT for 60 minutes it's Dr John Dean who's leading it um he's using fmri to study the

extended state DMT he's looking at the entity phenomenon particularly vast number of people who've worked with DMT experience encounters with entities and those entities communicate telepathically of course the mainstream Would say that's rubbish it's just your brain on drugs but it's a mystery um and and they're going to decode these visual activities uh and and um the creation of new Psy extensive alter States Research into human potential what this boils down to it's focused on measuring whether a person's Consciousness can extend past the physical body during trance or hypnotic States uh uh and and of

course if that Were to check out in these investigations we're now looking at opportunities for people to volunteer for these projects and to report their experiences in detail they're going to be having people on DMT in one country and at the same time simultaneously people on DMT in another country this work is happening in Switzerland as well and seeing if there's some kind of outof body element this is stuff that mainstream science wouldn't have touched A decade ago but now he interested in it and and uh you know that's that's that's a very positive thing

we get proof of a mappable realm yes that's the that's the exciting that's the exciting potential of This research is that we are so focused on the physical world that we think all exploration is to be technological that we are supposed to that we're going to explore other planets we're going to explore the solar system we're going to explore the Universe great but what about exploring Inner Space what about finding out who and what we are what about the possibility of a chemical Gateway that leads you to a realm that you're just not capable of

accessing without it that's what I think DMT is and the fact that it's actually endogenously produced yes why is why why is human body producing DMT as a natural endogenous brain hormone if if it doesn't have some very important function and maybe that Function is to shake us out of this locked in state where we're locked into the Physical Realm and our needs to survive in that Physical Realm gives us a brief Holiday from that and allows us to encounter a wider reality that we've otherwise shut out from our Consciousness this is a hypothesis to

explore and I'm really really happy uh that it is that it is happening at the University of of San Diego uh anybody who wants to find out more about it it's Down there at the bottom uh you can go to the Center for psychedelic research at UCSD there's a URL there and the point of contact is the lead scientist uh which is J1 Dean health. ucsd.edu anybody wants to find out more about this research which is starting uh I believe in the spring of 2024 uh they can get in contact with John Dean and uh

see if they're interested in enrolling in the investigation do you have a hint to Elon Musk in this uh this is this is not my words these are whose words these are words that have been sent to me by the team the team says we're looking to raise about 20 million to make all this happen within three to five years hint maybe Elon Musk would be interested in supporting as he has mentioned DMT multiple times on Twitter and other public spheres he's the guy you go to do well exactly uh they've they've raised $1.5 million

and that gets the project Started thanks to Eugene Jong but to take this project to the next level they they need more money and and uh this is a highly creditable institution offering something very interesting well he might be willing to do it because he's willing to offer Wikipedia $1 billion do to change their name to dickipedia that would be a billion dollars really well spent because Wikipedia is is an encyclopedia of lies it is full of [ __ ] it is full of propaganda it is Full of dishonesty I can say this from my

own knowledge of my particular sphere there is so much misinformation put out on Wikipedia if it's the case in a sphere I know about I bet it's the case in every other sphere you know what they did with Andrew huberman who's a professor at Stanford no they didn't like something that he supported I forget what it was so they removed his research page so all of his published research is no longer on his Wikipedia Page at least wasn't and they locked it typical which is just insane like you can't remove a man's distinguished scientific work

because you don't agree with I I don't even remember what it was it's cancel culture but it's insane because you're dealing with the legitimate academic it's utter Madness it's Madness that this is the resource that people go to when they're trying to find objective information on things and these people will remove published Research from a distinguished scientists mhm because of whatever stupid reason there's only one word for it and that's censorship it's the kind of thing you expect in the Soviet Union or in or in North Korea uh but it's not the kind of thing

you expect in so-called Democratic Western civilizations not only that but so-called Democratic Western Civilization on a website that's run by progressives yeah like isn't being a progressive about an objective Assessment of all the information and relaying it in a way that enriches the Public's understanding of the subject not lying or by Lying by removing information removing data because basically saying that basically the attitude behind it is one of enormous hubris and pride these people are saying the public aren't able to make up their own minds on things so we'll make up their minds for them

it's so offensive and so wrong and I oh I Remember what it was about it was about him saying on a post that he would look forward to either some sort of a public debate or was Robert Kennedy Jr I hope that more candidates submit to doing long-term conversations yes that he enjoyed it like what would be controversial about having candidates submit to longterm long form conversations I think it should be I think it should be compulsory yeah uh I mean electing somebody president of a Big country like the United States is a huge and

serious responsibility let's that to hours of not well no let Cas of Robert Kennedy J one of the few shows that does do these very extended three-hour in-depth interviews uh and I I would like to see all political candidates put themselves up for that these stage debates that happen between candidates are just rubbish just pointless it's a terrible means of getting to the bottom of things And even getting to know a person it's terrible because it's so performative it's so imagine if you went on a date with and you're on a date and you say

to this so you know what do you do for a living and they have this like pre-made speech poing points that they they talk about in this very blustery way like okay you're out of time you have 30 seconds left and you tell that to them and then they're done and you Can't ask you can't stop them you can't oh that's interesting how'd you get involved in that like it's not a conversation you don't know that person you just know the speech that they've given exactly that's the surface level sort of understanding that we have

posturing it's supposed to look like a debate it's also the fact that the format itself is such a terrible way to have long form discussions you you have a time limit for each person you have to Cut for commercials you're doing in front of a live audience which is very performative in the first place like who gets the cheers and who gets the laughs like they win and they're dunking on each other it's ridiculous it's such ridiculous way but I don't want to talk to them I talked to I talked to Kennedy because I was

just I know that there's this narrative that he's a cook and he's an antivaxer and none of those things are true and I wanted him to explain Himself and he said that that was the first time in 18 years of talking about this stuff that someone has actually just let him talk yeah and no one's jumped in because people are if you're on a network and someone starts talking about vaccine safety and the issues with certain ingredients and vaccines people like hit the breakes this has been refuted what you're saying is not true the FDA

says this and that and this and they have to they have to jump in the Executives will be in their ear The Producers will be in their ear jump in yeah they'll put up things that stop them like let the guy talk let's let's at the end of what he says then ask him how did you come to these conclusions have you ever Steelman the opposing positions are there times where you've questioned what you believe yeah you know have you been vaccinated yourself you know do what do we know about these peer-reviewed studies what do

we know About the way they're allowed to access information what do we know about the vested interest Financial vested interests involved in pursuing a very specific narrative and has there been resistance to all these other points these are the questions that need to be asked these are interesting questions and the fact that huberman was censored because he thought thought it was a good idea that more people have long form discussions is madness what are they Afraid of what are you afraid and how could you get that kind of compliance with a supposedly Progressive website yeah

to step in and censor someone over something not just benign but seemingly very useful but positive yeah yeah it's another sign of of the the mess that we live in today and unfortunately Wikipedia is the first Port of Call right for anybody who wants some quick information on a subject and because it's got the word pedia after it they May think it's an authentic encyclopedia right it's not it's a it's an engine for promoting particular points of view and that's very unfortunate because I don't think it started off as that no I don't think it

did either it's something it's been captured it's been captured I I I I know for a fact that my Wikipedia page which announces that I'm a pseudo scientist and promote pseudoscientific ideas uh that my Wikipedia page has been captured by a group of people who have Been uh intensely critical of me since the 1990s uh so that cannot be an encyclopedia that cannot be a fair and unbiased position that's representing the position of of a particular small group of people and I think unfortunately for them that knowledge that understanding is out there with a great

number of people and people don't trust it the way they used to trust it they used to trust it as this subjective sort of Crowdsourced you know information Hub where you could find all sorts of really in beautiful idea yeah it's a beautiful idea but like any idea that has too much power and control like that like like w wikipedia does like they just capture it and they just say okay well we we'll just use this to promote a very specific narrative yeah and [ __ ] the truth and that that that idea of [

__ ] the truth that's bad for everybody that's bad for them that's bad for everybody very bad Uh so I would say that political candidates should be willing to do long form interviews with you or anybody else's willing to do it then we're going to get to their hearts we're going to see actually what kind of person they are and as I've said before on your show if I could make it compulsory I would also require any person heading for high political office to have 12 sessions with iasa or with extended rout 12 is a

lot to ask you need 12 because the the First the first few can be overwhelming you or or or or nothing nothing can happen sometimes it it's it's a it's a medicine that you need to you need to work with for a long time but I what it does is it opens the heart and it opens the mind and I would suggest that people who want to be leaders either might end up leading in a much better way or might end up choosing not to be leaders at all well that's what's fascinating about what's going

on right now with the Public's understanding of psychedelics and this this new acceptance of it that we are at the precipice of a global war yeah and we are also at the precipice of a a global understanding of the benefits of psychedelics and they all seem to be battling it out for who wins this race and it's it's a crazy thing for people to hear that psychedelics could save Humanity but I think they probably could I think they could too and and the reason it's a crazy thing to hear is Because we've had what 50

60 years of propaganda which which has drilled itself into the into the brains of so many people that a lot of people just don't think about this at all um can I mention the other d project if we could put it up again I was going to say that one of the great benefits of people are getting out of this is people on the right are now embracing psychedelics they see the benefit that it has for soldiers police officers for vets people With PTSD people have experienced extreme violence in war exact and it gives them

a complete reset yes that is not available in any other way that we're currently aware of exactly those those results are published they're available and and any reasonable person can review them and say hang on my ideas about this are wrong so in my Circles of people that I know military people people and a lot of people that were very rightwing they're now embracing That as like okay this is just more government [ __ ] this is not it's not that drugs are bad and hippies are losers and if you take drugs you're not going

to do anything with your life it's a different narrative now it's like oh they've lied to us about that too yes yeah and that's now that that's being shared amongst conservative people because the benefits that it has on on troops yeah and I think that's one of the more important things about Maps Which is amazing organization m is a fantastic organ amazing and what they've done the way they've done it so legally and so carefully and the way they've established these studies and showed the benefits that it's opening people's eyes in a way that like

step by step it's it's not about drugs destroying Society yes some drugs destroy Society some of them do some drugs May destroy some individuals they can destroy some individuals but the way to mitigate that Is not making everybody a child that is to the will of the adult who doesn't even have these experiences it's a better understanding of why and what's going on and ab what what what what inherent trauma is causing people to gravitate towards these incredibly harmful drugs in the first place and is's there a way to mitigate that in our societies because

we've made no effort to do that no none what none none none whatsoever it's all Band-Aids yeah it's All it's all Band-Aids uh it needs to be thought through uh much more carefully than it is the the other outfit are called nautics uh they are the spearhead for a scientist called Andrew galmore uh who's a neuroscientist at the University of Okinawa in Japan uh and he is one of the inventors together with Rick strasman I think you've had Rick sure on your show Rick and Andrew together invented the technology that would allow dmtx Extended state

to DMT well that was what he he first did at the University of New Mexico right like they did is the Godfather of this field somehow he in the early '90s he got permission to enroll Volunteers in a DMT study and and it was a breakthrough breakthrough study the book was DMT The Spirit Molecule fantastic intriguing results where where people who are not comparing notes or reporting encounters with the same entities I was in the documentary about That too you were you you presented that documentary I remember that was in black and white that documentary

I think I don't know I was I think I was in black and white I think you whatever it was it really worked well and introduced this to the to to public for the first time it's um it's an amazing thing to watch that go from being so incredibly Fringe when I was made aware of it I think the first time I was aware of it was like listening to Art Bell on Coast to Coast Talking to Terence Mna right you know I think the late great Terence Mna the late great I think that was

the first uh person I'd ever heard talk about it yeah and then of course getting a hold of through a psychedelic Salon uh getting a hold of those old recordings I don't know if he still makes psychedelic Salon is that still a podcast that was an amazing podcast where it was all like Allan watts and Timothy ly and so many of terrence's lectures that had been Recorded and you get a chance to listen to these discussions and they were so fascinating is that still around I love the way Terren lives on through the internet I

don't I've lost my HDMI um it's still there it's still there I'll just finish lenzo is the host and he's been on the podcast as well uh new notics they're deploying uh Andrew galore's technology um they are uh they have the support of a government I'm not allowed to say which they're going to be Initiating this project uh early next year um typically people will go there for a week uh they will they will volunteer questions such as the ontology of the DMT space is it real developing methods of communications with the entities stud ing

their language all of this is is going to be the subject of the nautics uh investigation uh and um the the bottom line is the that they've invited me to be a volunteer which I certainly will be and they would love to Invite you if you feel like it look at it's in there we've obtained clearance for both you and Joe Rogan to experience Extended State DMT complimentary wo um what was the other you you had another slide that you showed just a brief moment ago that was connecting it to SEI and NASA was saying

that much like what SEI and NASA do for where was it there it is yeah so pave the way to for the next Frontier in Consciousness research akin to NASA and Seti for the mind yeah that's right that's that that's where it gets really weird with people like what what are you what are you saying NASA and seti and it sounds ridiculous the only reason it sounds ridiculous is because for so many years we've been subjected to a mass of propaganda telling us that it is that it is not ridiculous telling us that it's ridiculous

this is this is the problem that mindset has has been almost Engraved in stone in human consciousness yeah and and overcoming it will be difficult so UAP project sort of sort of how interesting if well what do you think is going on with the UAP phenomenon do you want to talk more about what you're talking about I just want to say one more thing if I the the the if I could have the DMT back the the HDMI back uh because if anybody wants to contact new natics to uh enroll in their project next year

I just want to give Their address okay Jamie can do that he'll pull that up um let's just uh get the HDMI on um what's it what's interesting is so here it is no uh this is you need put the HDMI in my I I mean this is oh that's the new natics website okay so so that's that's uh who you would contact there you are that's right that's that's exactly what's needed if anybody's interested in this these are breakthrough scientific Endeavors which are investigating a mystery that has Been taboo for far too long and

the comparison with seti and NASA is a good one uh because at the moment as a species we're devoting our Explorations entirely into the Physical Realm uh yes we may build high-tech spacecraft that can go even to other star systems maybe we will and that's a really important thing to do and a really useful thing to do but while we remain largely ignorant about ourselves and what we're doing here and what's Happening in our inner Realms and what is revealed in Altered States Of Consciousness we haven't done enough and there's Ro there's a role for

exploration in that realm too not simply random explanation I anybody who wants to take DMT is welcome to as far as I'm concerned but targeted exploration to see what happens in the DMT State what are these entities why is it that people from different countries and different cultures encounter clearly the same Entities and and receive the same the same messages from them is this do we all have some kind of brain module that just makes this up or as we were saying earlier does it does it just open the door to a whole other level

of reality that we're normally shut off from uh and which may be extremely helpful to us it may also be extremely dangerous to us who knows but but without exploring we're never going to find out well we do have physicists that talk about Neighboring Dimensions that are inaccessible yeah so this is not like a completely new concept no it's not it's not a New Concept that notion of parallel Dimensions is already accepted largely by science uh and this is a this is a technology for exploring those that's one sounds so abstract when you talk to

people about parallel Dimensions that the notion of parallel Dimensions has been accepted by science like what are you saying like what does that mean Like parallel dimensions and unless you've had a psychedelic experience it does seem super abstract it seems it seems like something that people just say it doesn't seem like something that which is one of the weirder things about psychedelic experien is that when you're there you're like how is this real how is this real and this accessible how is this this close and how does my mind make this yeah my own mind

that's the the Famous teren mechanic quote everyone's holding yeah cuz like it's it's illegal but it's literally a part of your body part of our B making blood illegal and there is a there is a reason why and and Rick strasman is one of those who've suggested press that but keep forgetting yeah Rick is is is one of those who suggested that the endogenous DMT is released in large quantities at the moment of death that it's a that it may be a a transition that's why he Calls it The Spirit Molecule yeah and there's also

the connection to dreams which is very strange like we were not exactly sure what dreams are made out of no not and why is the experience of Dreams very similar to the experience of a psychedelic States in that once it's over you have a very profound memory initially and then it sort of slips through your fingers yeah and it kind of goes away just like a dream so many dreams I've had where I wake up and I'm Like wow I'm never going to forget that and then it's gone yeah it's gone like almost immediately afterwards

I'm like how is that possible and what is going on in normal survival ious that is sort of keeping that distraction from you say Hey listen listen listen that's not here here you got to worry about lions and tigers and bears oh my so when you get out there in the real world you can't be thinking about your dreams and and tripping balls you got to survive yeah And so it seems to be like some sort of a survival mechanism that's in place yeah that this instant almost instant very quick dissolving of that memory yeah

they're both very similar in that regard cuz most reg like if you see like a car accident it's burning your mind for a long time I mean you might have a distorted version of it because the human memory is very flawed yeah but you will remember the trauma of like you bet you'll see it you'll see it over and Over again so many things in my life that I've I've watched like especially like violent encounters I've see them over and over again but whereas the dreams that we have which are so wild when they're done

like some of them I can't wait to tell people about them cuz they're so crazy and then 10 minutes later I can't remember what it was it's gone how is that possible that something that is so incredibly interesting to you right after you wake up just dissolves From your memory within minutes perhaps it's because of the noise of our society and our civilization which doesn't have time for that if you go back to ancient cultures all of them valued dreams uh it's our culture is rather unique in dismissing dreams as irrelevant nonsenses little Stories We

Tell ourselves in our subconscious uh ancient civilizations regarded dreams as extremely important and as a a valid method of acquiring knowledge that could Be useful maybe we could learn from that maybe we should pay more attention to our dreams try to understand them better see what they're see what they're coming from and remember also the this the saying it's in Homer I believe uh that there are two kinds of dreams that some dreams come through the gate of sorn ivory they're meaningless they're just flimflam but some dreams come through the gate of horn a gate

a simple gate carved from horn and those dreams are True tell telling so the Ancients distinguished between dreams that are just flimflam and dreams that bring real important information to us and they devoted their energies and their time to studying those dreams in a way that we don't so if we want to insult somebody we call that person a dreamer in our society today perhaps we should regard that as a compliment uh instead but it's true it vanishes very quickly one one of the weird things about dreams is uh when I use a lot of

cannabis I stop dreaming or or if I don't stop dream I don't remember the dreams at any rate and and the moment I stop if I stop cannabis for 3 4 days they come back yeah and they come they flood back in usually they're interesting I I had one dream recently nightmare but I think it's pretty predictable I think that was my mind just creating it I was tied to a chair and burnt alive whoa that's what a lot of archaeologists Want to want to do to me so I think I was just I was

just realizing that that experience but so dreams disappear quickly there may be ways of study uh yogic ways of examining what dreams are that could allow us to extract more information from them and the same with DMT I'm very fascinated by the yogic methods of achieving psychedelic States endogenously particularly Kundalini Yoga yes which uh I've talked to people who' done it I've never bothered learning it And getting into it to the point where I could do it but the people that I trust that have done it say you can achieve very DMT like States through

Kundalini practice but that they tell you during the practice not to try to achieve those States and not to dwell on that that's not what it's about yeah but like I think the more the more ways that we talk about survival uh but one of the things in that issue is that human beings are equipped to experience Altered States of consci ious if alter States Of Consciousness were really bad for them and if there's anything at all to evolutionary theory uh Evolution would have got rid of them we wouldn't be able to access Altered States

Of Consciousness the fact that they've been preserved in human beings the fact that we have this capacity suggest that somewhere in our story even though we may be in a a very vulnerable state if we're under iwasa or or smok DMT Something suggests that that it is is useful to us in some in some way and it's being preserved in the genome the the capacity to alter to access Altered States Of Consciousness well it's probably also one of the reasons why they made it a ceremony yes where there's people that watch over you there's there's

a very specific protocol the way they handle it the set and setting and it's not everyone doing it all at the same time where the entire Village is vulnerable no uh the the um control of set and is what shamans in traditional cultures are masters of they they they create a ceremony around this the iaro the the songs that are sung by shamans during iasa Journey uh themselves become visible in the iwasa experience and you can begin to see them as Pathways that you can that you can follow there there there is knowledge there are

ways and means to explore these states uh it's Just a relatively recent thing that we live in a society that has demonized these things yeah you know thanks to Richard Nixon and his cohorts uh just amazing how long that's lasted so long so once something gets ingrained in society it's very difficult to remove it and it's a big and it's a big struggle and many people's lives have been ruined not by drugs but by the punishments they've received for possessing and using drugs those those Ru ruin lives so The new work that's now being offered

with extended state DMT uh rather than that 10minute Rush of overwhelming experience is offering the possibility to spend hour in it and to navigate it and explore it much more much more carefully so I'm very interested in that and I think it I think it is at least as valid as the exploration of outer space well it's certainly promising and if it does turn out to be a mappable place and if it Does turn out that that people are encountering the same entities and the same entities are trying to express the same information yeah that

would be really really fascinating well it be a huge Paradigm Shift yeah a huge paradigm shift and I often wonder I mean many of these um DMT uh excuse me uh Alien Abduction experiences they happen while people are sleeping yeah they all I mean and we know that we think at least that DMT is released in the brain during Sleep yeah we I often wonder if they're just accessing something that is there that there there is some sort of a realm that you can communicate with these things whatever these things are when you and it

sounds so if you're a person that's completely sober and never done anything I know it's going to sound cooky so just knowing that it'll be used against you by somebody you can't at this point but it's it's like they're talking to you and they they they Understand you in a way you don't even understand you and they could explain things in a way that just like complet you go oh okay I get it you know one of the things that I've experienced in it that is so bizarre is the notion of what your energy does

to other people what that energy does to other people that experience it absolutely like you see a very clear like a pathway the ripples of it all you see this bizarre connection that we have with each other we we often Times want to ignore that because we want to pretend that we're alone and I'll figure it out I'm by myself and [ __ ] the world like that that kind but no you're like weirdly connected to everyone and some sort of strange way that you can't see and in that way these plant medicines strangely are

moral teachers they are moral teachers they show us our own behavior they hold up a mirror to ourselves things that we haven't even Admitted to ourselves that we said or did are are shown to us and the instruction is deal with it you are this person you cause that pain to that fellow human being yeah you can even experience that fellow human being's pain I have a problem with anger I say things I I say things in Anger that I really don't mean but I'm quite good with words and and they can be really hurtful

to other people and and aaska has shown me that more than anything Else and gr it's a long slow process I'm I'm dealing with my anger much more than I would have in the past I'm much more aware of the impact that something I say may have on another person and that I need to be careful about what I say because I don't want to hurt other people I want to I want to give love and I want to receive love I don't want to I don't even want to hurt people that I don't like

no that's right I just used to think that that was a good thing to Do and I think there's a lot of young people that think that's a good thing to do to attack people you don't like I think it does something to you whether you like it or not definitely I think it has an effect on you whether you like it or not there's things that I don't like about people and I will criticize behaviors and actions of specifically of like leaders of the world that I think are taking us down a terrible path

and what their motivations are and but at The end of the day what we're doing here is interacting with each other and the more positive interactions that you can facilitate the more that you can make your time and your communication with people positive it will literally spread out from them you can change the way people think about interacting with people just through your own interactions with them AB I've met people like that where they're so interesting don't forget the red button There you go I've met people that are the way they think is so interesting

that it's profoundly affected the way I think and then I taken from them whatever admirable characteristics that they had and I said you know what I really like that I want to I want to embody that myself that's a really good position to take because the idea of the idea of changing the world is too big an idea for anybody to grasp no individual is going to change the world but what we Can do is change ourselves we can become more positive more nurturing more helpful less cruel and Kinder people those are very simple steps

to take and and they tend not to be taken yeah and that's one area where I'm convinced psychedelics do help yeah just don't engage in unnecessary conflict and retribution this retributive notion that somebody hurt me so I got to hurt them back it just creates a cycle of endless violence and negativity it's also bad For you I don't know I know you don't believe it because you want you have this desire to lash out but it's bad for you oh yeah Absol absolutely and then we come to social media and God which accentuates all the

worst characteristics accentuates all the worst characteristics takes away all the social cues and the real personal interactions that you get with a person looking in their eyes and hurting them absolutely right you feel like you just Say hurtful things and [ __ ] that person because they're a this and I'm a that and I'm allowed to do that I mean that I remember you said something to me that I thought was rather wise at the time you said you never look at the comments on social media and you said why you said if the comment

is positive it's just going to blow up my ego and if it's negative it's going to make me feel miserable neither neither one is useful so better to avoid I think that was Really good advice it's not good for you I know that a lot of people like when someone interacts with their fans and I understand that but it's just the the the possibility of it being bad for you is just too much you're you know you could kind of cultivate an environment where only positive people interact with you but then you're going to get

some [ __ ] that way too you're going to get a distorted perception because you're censoring people literally it's Better to just let people talk and just like stay out of it and just do your best just always be judging yourself always be assessing only person we got a right to judge actually is ourselves and we're good at it if we're really trying yeah AB absolutely on this issue of um hurting other people or not or retribution uh I'd just like to to bring up that we were originally going to be here on the 24th

we're recording this on the 24th of October we were going to be Here doing a debate yes there was going to be Dr Flint Dibble who's an American citizen but he teaches at the University of Cardiff in Britain he's an archaeologist an experienced archaeologist and he was one of the several archaeologists who most um viciously and painfully attacked me after the release of ancient apocalypse John hoops at the University of Kansas was another uh you on our last show together you issued a challenge for it a Debate would you know and I said I'd be

willing to to debate any serious archaeologist who was willing to debate me John hoops at the University of Kansas immediately backed out he wouldn't debate at all but finally Flint dible said he would he would he would like to take up that challenge and uh the sad thing is that Flint uh this is open knowledge because flint and I published a joint statement on social media uh Flint is suffering from a bad cancer right now it was diagnosed after he accepted the challenge um he's on heavyweight chemotherapy uh and I feel for him he he's

been he's been hateful to me I don't want to hate him back I know he's coming from a place of sincerity I know he's not M he genuinely believes I'm wrong and I really welcome the opportunity to debate with him on your show openly for three hours to have a Detailed discussion but it's not his fault that he's not here today it's because he's the the chemotherapy has has made it just impossible for him to function in this kind of setting but well we wish him well and we hope he recovers we hope he recovers

and and we are provisionally talking about coming back on your show in April 24 uh when he hopes to be over the worst of the chemotherapy uh to do that debate and I look forward to it and I hope that it'll End up being a reasonable exchange between two human beings rather than two human beings hating on each other you know yeah well I think we can make that real um Jamie have you seen there's been some talk of some new drug that they've found that's very effective for cancer have you seen this starts with

an F I'm trying to remember what the hell it's called I saw a story about that as well yeah let me try try to find it here I know I have it Saved in my um my Instagram I think give me one second here saved it's either I saved it on Instagram or I saved it on Twitter let me find it here starts with an F it's a some sort of a uh very lowcost drug that's being repurposed I think it's some sort of an anti-parasitic drug that's being repurposed and is having supposedly remarkable results

yeah You've heard of this as well I've heard something about it I haven't looked at it in depth but it did I did catch a headline I must have saved it on here I must have sa and this is where we can also say that that modern science isn't all bad you know there's a lot of good stuff in modern science I found it here it is yes no of course modern science is amazing the problem is money the problem is when these people that are creating these incredible drugs these scientists And doctors and these

people that are having these amazing medical advancements they're connected to something that just wants to make money yeah the people that are selling the drugs and the people that are running the companies are completely different than the scientists that are legitimately developing these things and many of them turn out to be very effective for all sorts of ailments and diseases so I sent this to you Jamie Overlooked miracle drug for cancer why big Pharma fears fenol Fen at least 12 anti-cancer mechanisms of action nine research papers reviewed so I think this stuff is supposed to

be low cost and this is some of the speculation the conspiracy theory about like why people are afraid of it well I hope that I hope that Flint is aware of this uh and that it helps him to recover from his cancel that's that's that's that's very good to H's Interested in even just examining it because there are I think it will be I hope so but there's been some reaction to this I just found out about this a couple of days ago yeah there so these research papers Fen go stop right there has at

least 12 proven anti-cancer mechanisms in vitro and in Vivo it disrupts uh microt tubulate polymerization yeah major mechanism induces cell cycle whatever that means arrest uh blocks glucose Trans important impairs glucose utilization by cancer cells increases P3 p-53 tumor suppressor levels inhibits uh inhibits cancer cell viability inhibits cancer cell migration and Invasion induces uh aop apoptosis induces autography uh induces they're trying to get me with all these words PRI prosis and necrosis uh induces differentiation and sence sence sence inhibits tuner Angiogenesis reduces Colony form formation and inhibits stemness in cancer cells inhibits drug resistance and

sensitizes cells to Conventional chemo as well as radiation therapy interesting sensitizes cells to chemo very similar drug in the same family is already been approved by the FDA and that is uh me Doo uh and it is in several uh several clinical trials right now for brain cancers and colon cancers so why are no Fen bendol clinical trials for cancer the answer seems rather obvious rather obvious it's very cheap it's safe and it seems to be effective very effective exactly interesting big farm big farmer don't see a margin in it I want I mean if

that who knows but if that is the case I mean what an enemy of the people they're preventing information and preventing people from using things well we' we've created a society that seems to be designed to make us sick and then Big farmer steps in with so-called remedies for it which happen to make some people a lot of money yeah well it's certainly a narrative that this is the only way to go the the way to go is eat whatever you want and don't even think about your diet and your health yeah I have a

friend who got over cancer and I said did they talk to you about diet and and health and vitamins this person doesn't take any vitamins all yeah and they're like no there's no Discussion at all I'm like okay so I send them some stuff about ketosis and what studies have been done about ketosis and cancer and then I mean it's one of the things that some doctors will tell you to do when you're you're going through cancer is to get on a uh ketogenic diet there could be some benefits to that you want to like

cover all your bases if something's wrong and one of the things I would imagine that your doctor should tell you like hey you Should probably more metabolically healthy as well yeah yeah yeah AB absolutely um we are what we eat you know literally yeah I know it sounds so again abstract but the food that you consume is literally the building blocks of your your your physical tissue it's the first step in in a healthy life actually is decisions you make about food yeah how controversial how wacky someone get to Wikipedia right now call us suda

scientist absolutely yeah so Back to Flint Dibble um so hopefully he will do well with this and come through it on the other end and we'll have a respectful conversation and you know maybe we both can learn something or all three of you all three of us can learn something that's that's that's what I that's what I hope and i' you know I'd like to say on on on on the record um I don't hate archaeologists I know that there's a lot of great work that's done by archaeologists I myself could not do The work

I do were it not for the work that archaeologists have done out there in the field pay painstakingly digging and producing evidence uh I have huge respect for for archaeologists I think there's a very limited group within archaeology who who have this domineer mentality and who seek to control the narrative but by and large Archaeology is doing a good and a useful thing and uh I don't want it's it's unfortunate that I've been identified as a hate Figure by a number of archaeologists I think there's there's much more potential for cooperation and I'm not the

only person working in this field of the possibility of A Lost Civilization consider Randall Carlson consider Robert shock many others Manu seada who you don't know but he's he's brilliant uh taught himself Egyptian hieroglyphs he can read the Egyptian hieroglyphs fluently uh there's a lot of people working in this field uh whose Information could be of use to archaeology if archaeology would just lower its threshold a little bit to ideas it doesn't like and again it's probably not most it's Pro most archaeologists are probably very curious about it's a probably very vocal minority and power

dnamic that exists in so many different aspects of civilization where where groups of people control anything they're very reluctant to give away that Kind of power absolutely especially if what they're doing is just discovering ancient stuff I mean it's not even like you're creating anything you're literally in control of the information that is that forms the narrative for ancient civilizations which is something pretty much anyone who acquires the data can do yeah def definitely and and should be and should be encouraged to do uh we we need to we need to know about our past

we need to understand our past Better and archaeologists are part of a mechanism for understanding our past better but they're not the sole mechanism another thing that we talked about recently that I sent you was this new um AI ability that AI has the ability to translate some of these ancient languages now which is really interesting I think so far they're they're getting more out of languages that have already been translated where there is something for the AI to work on Uh whether AI could be deployed to decode the indis valy script for example that

would be very interesting the Easter Island script the so-called rongorongo tablets of isra fully developed script which nobody can read oh really the do you know that Easter Island back in the 19th century was subjected to slave raids the slavers were Peruvian slave Raiders they came to Easter Island and they removed almost the entire population only 111 Easter Islanders survived those slave raids in the 19th century and they didn't include any of the old knowledge Keepers so none of the survivors descendants now can read the script of Easter Island wow uh and yet it had

a script and that itself is a mystery on a very small island that there's there's the Rango ranga tablet look how beautiful that language looks so interesting looking and what is it telling us you know this is maybe I hope AI can can be Unleashed on this and Maybe find some some solution to the problem look how complex and and and beautiful it is it's so interesting looking it's not like when you look at CI form it's kind of crude looking yeah you know it's like these just weird lineses back and forth but this is

gorgeous this is a beautiful thing what any of this means and we have accounts that the elders used to read from them to the community but all those Elders were taken away in the slave raids and Nobody was left who could read them and many of the tablets were taken out of Easter Island some of them have ended up in museums around the world wow it's so cool I had no idea that this even existed yeah and it's a mystery it's a mystery on a tiny Island 2,000 miles from Tahiti and 2,000 mi from the

South American Coast a tiny Island that they have their own fully evolved script that is hard to explain and it's one of the things that makes me think Easter Island's Origins are much older than we're talk look at that drawing of it in the upper yeah right there yeah that one look how Wild that looks MH many repeated characters has all the characteristics of a script of a written language yeah wow so so what would how would AI without a Rosetta Stone without something that connects two together because that was one of the ways that

they deciphered that's right if it if it Weren't for the Rosetta Stone we could not read the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs it so happened that a relatively late period of Egyptian history when the Greeks were running Egypt the toic Dynasty uh that they wrote down a a stellar in three languages in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs in the more recent form of ancient Egyptian called hieratic and in Greek and that gave them the key from that our whole knowledge of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs has has arisen isn't an amazing one stone one stone gave us access to that wisdom

and that and that ancient world maybe not complete access I think there's a lot that's not understood in the ancient Egyptian texts particularly their exploration of death and what happens after death they put their best Minds to work for thousands of years on that problem and they came up with all kinds of interesting ideas but at least thanks To the Rosetta Stone we can read their text we can read the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead we can read the book of what is in the datat we can read the pyramid texts case of Easter

Ireland no such thing so I hope I hope AI will somehow be able to cross that divide without without that initial key and be able to extract information from the Easter Island script and I repeat again the indis valley script which is incredibly Important it's 5,000 years old uh completely undeciphered cities like Mo madaro and haraa uh had uh a very Advanced civilization 5,000 years ago uh and they had a script that we can't read how many different scripts that we can't read exist I can't give you a number quite a few but it's quite

a few yeah yeah but the the most famous is the indis Val script it isn't absolutely insane that if it wasn't for the discovery of the Rosetta Stone how much Would still be confusing Egypt would be dark to us we we'd be it'd all be guess workor one stone one stone one stone that gives us the key now imagine having the gall to say you know everything about the history of the earth when literally the discovery of one stone changed everything exactly who knows how many stones out there are not discovered exactly exctly who knows

how much is under there yeah that's right there's there's a huge untold story in ancient Egypt uh it's also like the the Digger the deeper you dig the the more there's different forms of structures like the they they have different construction Styles yeah seem to indicate like an older civilization they kept on building and rebuilding on older SS I mentioned the edfu building texts that's a temple from the toic period it contains basically the story of Atlantis uh which egyptologist say had no egyptian origin but it contains that story they call Atlantis the homeland of

the Primeval ones uh that Temple was built on the foundations of an earlier Temple which had fallen to pieces it preserved the archives from that earlier Temple turns out that earlier Temple was itself built on an even earlier Temple going back to predynastic times so there's a lineage there's a Heritage of stuff being pass down and there's a history of that in Europe as well when I was in Italy we were in rll and in rll there's a church That's uh right across the street from this hotel and this church has a glass floor right

so they have this ancient church it's really old but below it is something far more ancient right and they don't know how old it is they don't know who made it but it's pre-christian but it's well I don't know what it is but they have some there's a glass floor there where you can look down and see I think it had it on my Instagram I I put it on my Instagram and I also put their Depiction of I think they what they thought a whale looked like right which is really crazy looking but this

is so this is this ancient church so this is the church so that's the floor so you're I'm looking down now through the floor you can see me taking the photo the reflection so this is this church what does it say here Jamie in the Pres description so this church in rll is a thousand years old and it sits on top of the ruins of a far older Church yeah this is a glass floor where you look down to the old one the people that have work here say they have no idea how old the

original ruins are pretty cool to be there and take it all in as you said yeah it was see how it is like there this a glass floor so you're walking around a thousand-year-old church with a glass floor it seems to be suggesting that it's built on the ruins of an older Church yes that's what they're saying but an interesting point Is uh if you go to Mexico for example you'll find that the the conquista doors built churches is on top of so many ancient Mexican sacred sites the the Great Pyramid of Cholula uh is

an example it has a huge Cathedral now built on the top of it of course it's sort of capturing the culture by imposing their religion flattening your enemy house and building your own Tak and taking it over uh but there are the human past is mysterious there are Layers upon layers depths upon depths we're just scratching the surface right now and I hope I've played some small part in scratching the surface and I gain tribute to archaeology for the work that archaeologists do well that's very charitable of you and you most certainly have played a

large role certainly for me I remember when I used to read that there Shala there it is and the the the church that's incredible look how look how crazy that is this is a fantastic Man-made Mountain yeah you know it's a huge thing and right on top of it perched there as though to say we own you now so that's what it like now yeah that's what it looks like so it how do they know what exactly the structure looks like underneath it what sign are there's more than eight miles of tunnels have been cut

through it by archaeologists wow uh and they've got into the into the depth of it it's it's a case where pyramids were constantly Built on top of earlier pyramids just as we've been discussing w wow so interesting so that's the the recreation of what it's actually like underneath it yeah that's right wow and all we can see is just Mount of dirt a mount of dirt with a big church on top of big church on top but the church is not nearly as impressive as the pyramid that's hilarious it's not they like they put their

[ __ ] structure on top of something that's Insane and that's what it looks like it just looks like a hill it it does and and the ancient name for it was man-made Mountain was one of the things that was known well there's quite a few of those in Mexico right you bet Mexico is another fascinating culture we've hardly had the opportunity to to talk about it today but there's just so much and if I were to focus on a particular area of Mexico that needs further investigation I would say the alch civilization around Laventa

V Heros right up up as far as chichin that whole that whole area of the Yucatan is just absolutely fascinating and the features of the alme are so unique that's what's interesting they look very African what the alch sculptures show um is uh so cool looking too like serious [ __ ] with his hat on yeah they they show they show multi-ethnic people they don't it's fascinating that they show faces that we would definitely Regard as African faces today or perhaps Polynesian faces yeah maybe Polynesian but but other faces are also are also shown there

look at that one wow there's a piece I don't know if you can find it Jamie but there's a there's a sculpture that they call the W The Walker w l k r at lenta which one's the Walker I'm not seeing him there no no the Walker there he is where is uh ancient inquiries alch sculpture In lavent museum it's in the bottom row second from left bottom row this that one yeah now oh look at that individual that's that's that's another ethnic group that seems to be represented there right he looks like he's got

a beard he's got a beard for sure and he's got some crazy hat on that looks like it has a tail on it yeah yeah and some glyphs around it and the oldest um representation of The Feathered Serpent as quel Cole that's what qule means that Is also found amongst the alme sculptures of lenta M H so so much to dig into dig into there and what's the mainstream archaeologist explanation for the Alx what do they think they see them correctly as a predecessor culture to the Maya uh the famous Mayan calendar was an alch

calendar Maya yeah the Maya the Maya inherited it derived it from the from the alchs alch means rubber people it's what the Aztecs used to call Them because they they lived in a an area that used rubber um but we don't know what they call themselves rubber trees yeah yeah and what what was their use of rubber back then how did they use it it's another thing it's another uh discovery of the new world uh an original plant tree of the new world which came to benefit the the whole world rubber originally comes from the

Amazon uh but it rubber trees but it found its way up into into Mexico as Well what was it used for I don't know making rubber BS or other other possibilities arise uh but uh I'm I I'm not clear what it was used for there's been no astounding piece of information is that rubber right there yeah and then there was other the other uh thing with the Alx was those enormous fears yeah uh that that's Costa Rica oh is it yeah those they actually look like uncompleted alch heads they're in Costa Rica they're huge megalithic

spheres and basically these these alch heads are spherical but they're carved with human features and ears and faces uh I've often felt that there's a similarity between the the stone spheres of Costa Rica and the AL heads what do they attribute the stone spheres of Costa Rica to nobody knows nobody knows do they have a timeline that they think this were made as I said it's it's impossible to date stone so any timeline Would be based on organic material found around them um so they just when did they first discover these things well let's see

what Wikipedia says h they'll put a recent date on it for sure what does it say 500 to 1500 CE yeah well I would question that um because it's not dating this the the the objects themselves the objects are also movable objects you can roll a stone sphere MH organic material associated with them may not give you the accurate Data are there quite a lot of these I've been in a place where I saw about a dozen in one place it's only Costa Rica it's only Costa Rica wow yeah how strange yeah I mean what

are they perfect spheres God they look good pretty much perfect yeah they look amazing some of them bits of flaked off uh like that there you can see but basically we're looking at perfect spheres uh cut in uh in in hard Stone uh so it's a it's a technological Achievement in its in its own right so there's some erosion that leads to imperfections but the original structure was perfect yeah and is it painted too is that one painted Jamie that one next to your cursor yeah I think that's just a shadow shadow yeah I've not

seen I've not seen the paint I don't know that looks painted The Shadow is coming from the sun is coming from the other way so they'd have to be projecting a shadow onto it from this way which is weird it Could be it could be just a flash or a light or something that is weird have you never seen one that's painted before I have not no I have I've only seen the plain Stone spheres I think I've seen that one yeah and there's no wow they're that big yeah oh my God they're they're they're

enormous do we know where they came from like what Quarry I don't know the answer to that question Joe I'm not sure if anybody does it's just so interesting when they find these Things because if if we get wiped out that's what's going to be left yeah people are going to think oh the people that lived in 2023 made pyramids like legitimately yes absolutely oh look they left behind Stone spheres like we really don't know absolutely that's that's how it that's how it could be that's how it is that we might be attributing something to

a civilization that existed 10,000 plus years after its actual construction yeah Perfectly possible to perfectly possible to do that bro uh and as I said earlier on size of these things you know they way up to 15 Tons wow we did make one sphere recently but oh yeah the Las Vegas one pretty dope it might disappear that might be better but that would definitely disappear that's the problem in a cataclysmic disaster those fears would remain yeah they would they would remain as with the pyramids as with as with the pyramids yeah uh and it could

Easily get mixed up in time if if we went if we went 20,000 years into the future and some future archaeologist is is looking at this how do they disentangle oh yeah they would say 2023 they built the pyramids they probably would it's perfectly POS what if they didn't have the Rosetta Stone you know I'm really fascinated with uh ai's ability to interpret ancient languages and whether or not that could be applied to the EAS Island language and I think That's amazing is there work being done on that right now do we know not that

I'm aware of I know that there have been multiple attempts to decode the Easter Island script they've all failed uh but that's with humans maybe say again that's with humans maybe we just give control to our technological overlords if AI is deployed then maybe there's a hope that that it can be that it can be done yeah um I I asked you this before I sometimes call it Artificial stupidity though was it I'm not sure all AI I'm not sure I love all AI there's a lot of of artificial intelligence involved in in big big

social media like Facebook and so on and so forth sometimes sometimes they're pretty stupid well I think artificial intelligence is just look fish are intelligent they're they're intelligent enough to know what a lure is and know some fish learn and they can tell a fake like a hook yeah They can see things absolutely they you know they're not intelligent like a baby or like a monkey and we know that crows are very intelligent very smart crows yeah there's a lot of like weird intelligence and I think that artificial intelligence is much like that like we're

seeing the emergence of this insanely intelligent life form and we're seeing very crude versions of it initially yeah and eventually we're going you seeing it as a as a life form I think it's a life form how interesting I think we're making a life form I think we've been doing it for a long time I think there's a bunch of uh factors that seem to be working in favor of this happening one of them being materialism I think materialism makes people want to buy the newest latest greatest stuff which fuels Innovation especially technological innovation and

I think that if you looked at humans from afar and I've said this many times so forgive Me but if you looked at humans from afar and you didn't have any understanding of us like what do they do well they make better things every year every year they make better things that seems to be like they have a bunch of other things that are going on controlling resources and War but that really seems to be about controlling of resources and money and that seems to be involved in making better things yeah and they're using these

better things to have more control Over the people they're using these better things to have better Warfare more effective weapons and all the these things kind of lead to the big money goes into that kind of thing yeah right and they lead to the emergence of an artificial being it's just I think that as our biology fails and people are looking for New Alternatives to bad eyesight and all sorts of other things that are wrong with us I mean you have an artificial hip right I have two Artificial hips wouldn't be walking if it see

that like you're becoming a robot yeah like and slowly but surely we we'll all agree that you know what this whole being attached to being a biology biological life form is Frau with Peril there's all sorts of problems with ego and anger and sadness and lust and greed and and if we could eliminate all those wouldn't the world be a better place well what better way to eliminate all those than assimilation yeah so if Artificial intelligent were really intelligent and it were a being then next thing it would do would be get rid of us

I don't think it would get rid of us I think it would acquire us acquire us yeah use us yeah it would we made it and so I think our only alternative would be to emerge with it that's the only way we're going to survive yeah cuz I I think the crudeness of the biological model that we exist in like the crudeness of our physical bodies is So difficult to escape it's so ancient it's like this code is the same code that it was Australopithecus and it was like all these like animals were living in

Savage environments and we have all these built-in human reward systems that are so problematic and these are the things that are exploited by social media and by so many of the problems that we talked about earlier exploited by leaders exploited by and I think that if we do create a sentient Artificial intelligence the only hope that we have to survive is to become one with it or pull the plug yeah or nuclear war kills only half of us I mean in a sense already we are artifacts of our own technology in lots and lots of

ways and cyborgs in a sense cyborgs I'm I'm certainly a cyborg with two two replaced hips and a fused L5 disc you know I'm I'm definitely a cell pH and a cell phone in your pocket uh I have resisted cell phones have you really s my wife Has the cell phone good for you um I I the little typing thing I can't do it I just I just can't do it I I I do have a cell phone but I don't use it as a phone it's uh it's a way for accessing social media if

I need to post something when I'm traveling well that's wise yeah that's why I mean there's definitely a price you pay being connected and a price you pay being disconnected yes but uh for me I think the best way to do it is To I try to stay off of it most of the day and occasionally dip my toe just to see what the [ __ ] is going on in the world but it takes too long it sucks in so much of your time that you don't really have for other things unfortunately true yeah

does I've reached a stage in life where there's sounds very unconstructive this but there's just stuff I don't want to learn yeah I don't particularly want to learn how to use a cell phone fluently I have Other stuff that I want to learn uh I can use it basically I can you know type a message to you right with with one finger um I don't do the thumb thing but I I just feel I don't I don't need to know that it's going to be in your head eventually it's going to be in my head

eventually anyway if artificial intelligence is going to take over the world I hope it investigates the mystery of Consciousness as well uh and and I hope I hope it has a Consciousness and a Moral code Well we'd have to program that in wouldn't we I mean or would it program it into itself the the thing is it once it becomes once it has the ability to make its own decisions it's probably going to radically reshape the way resources are used it's going to try to figure out a way to balance out what the [ __

] we're doing to the ocean what we're doing to our skies and and come up with something first step is uh being worked on here in Austin apparently I Just found this article when I was looking at from thoughts to texts AI converts silent speech into written words wow uh it's not very good yet but here's just a quick example just uh right here okay for example in experiments participant listening to a speaker say I don't have my driver's license yet had their thoughts translated as she has not even started to learn to drive yet

pretty close listening to the words I didn't know Whether to scream cry or run away instead I said leave me alone was decoded as started to scream and cry and then she just said I told you to leave me alone pretty close pretty close yeah they listen Fu these things are these things are telepathic though they can read our minds that's just with fmri there's nothing extra like plugged into their brain or anything so there's that and then I think one of the things that would seal the deal is a new universal Language MH like

a new universal language that's adopted and accepted by everybody which is totally possible if you're enhanced with artificial intelligence it should be pretty easy for us to pick something like that up it would be great if everybody could speak the same language it would be amazing even if they preserved other languages it would be I I'm sure we'll find things disagree about yeah without doubt but that's part of the problem in the world Is cultures don't understand one another right and language is right really key to to understanding another culture the Tower of Babel the

Tower of Babel yeah yeah destruction of the universal language and I wonder what that was really all about well it's kind if we're talking about this right now I wonder if this has already happened before yeah maybe it has maybe maybe it has I mean look if you have someone that can do something like the pyramids why would we Assume that they wouldn't be able to also create a universal language and who knows what kind of Technology they're dealing with mhm I mean we we love to to just apply what we know as the only

technology that's available to an advanced civilization and that seems to me to be silly because we've been on a very specific path petrochemical produced Plastics absolutely it's one of my it's one of my feelings about looking for A Lost Civilization is that the one Thing we shouldn't do is look for ourselves in the past we need to look for something very different from ourselves a lot of archaeologists say oh um if there was A Lost Civilization they would have left plastic behind which rules out the possibility they might have decided not to develop Plastics or

might have decided uh might have developed something much more effective you know well there's also biodegradable Plastics that exist right now yeah we Know that yeah you know there's which would degrade in if they're wise they would probably use those yeah yeah you know it seems so simple well Graham uh it's always a pleasure to talk to you and to to you we'll do it again in April hopefully Flint will be I hope he feels better I hope you get well and hope we have a a fun discussion but uh I appreciate you very much

man thank you really being good to talk again Joe really enjoyed it you were Probably the first guest guest like real guest I think we ever had was just you me and Duncan it was you me and remember we ordered pizza you just flown in abolutely you were starving so we got pizza and you lived in La at that time and and actually it was in your home yeah that was the early days that was 2011 I think um and uh I must say that uh your show has opened my work up to an audience

that otherwise would never have seen my work and I'm grateful for that I'm I'm grateful for that your show made grateful for you because your work has opened my mind to a completely new view of human beings and the the history of human beings thank you and you're awesome thank you Joe right you're all right goodbye everybody you guys are awesome too [Music] bye [Music] [Applause] [Music]