Am I Racist? | Matt Walsh | EP 479

So at this time we thought it'd be interesting to take a different approach and and that is to start and rather than remaining a blank slate and remaining skeptical I I'll just believe whatever I'm told and then I'll let that answer lead me to the next place so that was the that was the goals to not just ask them about it but to take what they say put it into practice on screen so that people can see it and um so it's a much More direct I think way of kind of sterzing these ideas maybe

even than we did in what as a woman [Music] hello everybody I had the opportunity today to talk to Matt Walsh of what is a woman Fame many of you are familiar with that movie where Matt went out as naive investigator into the world of of gender ideology to try to answer the most fundamental question that can possibly be posed to a human being which Is can you tell the difference between the Sexes which by the way is something that creatures without nervous systems have been able to do for 650 million years so hopefully the

answer on your side is yes um in any case Matt made quite a success with that documentary and he has a new movie Amir racist which you can access at am icist decom um maybe that's a question you want to be asking yourself in any case as you many of you know unless you live under a rock The issue of racism has raised its ugly head in a massive way once again in our culture since about 2015 mostly because people badly educated at idiot universities have made that the center point of their propagandistic fulmination much

to the decrement of interpersonal relationship ship across the west and certainly relationships between the different ethnicities and racial groups it's really an appalling thing to see and Matt has decided to hit the Hornets Nest once again with this new movie and to launch himself out into the World As A diversity equity and inclusivity expert in search of the answer to the question that all white people in particular are supposed to be torturing themselves with which is am I racist and you know that's a complicated question actually because human beings have pronounced ingroup preferences which is

why we like our families for example and there are some Downsides to that like the fact that people who are um less familiar to us are more likely to receive a more negative response instinctively and that we have to fight against that um which I think we were doing with dramatic success before the idiot propagandists got bone back in their jaw and uh in any case Matt's launching this movie and we talked a lot about the movie am I a racist and we also talked about Matt's um conservative Ethos right his and how did those

two things tie together well people are beating the anti-racist drum I suppose because they're looking for meaning in their life that's part of the reason to the degree that just not exploiting the situation and we talked about sources of deep meaning and for Matt and for myself the meanings in our life have really come from our dedication to our wives and our families our kids and our Grandkids and in my case um because I'm older than Matt and so we talked a lot about sources of true meaning and false meaning and so you can join

us for that um am icis.com that's the URL you want to keep in mind join us hello Mr Walsh I hear you have a movie coming up do you want to tell everybody what it is and when it's breaking and all of that uh yeah we do we have a movies coming out September 13th miir racist is uh is the title and tickets are on pre-sale right Now we just uh we opened up pre pre-sale about a week ago it's already going you know really well on the on the pre-sale for the tickets uh which

is important because that you know determines in large part how many theaters actually show the movie so uh people are responding in a big way and uh and I'm excited about it am I racist September 13th well I I suppose we could cut right to right to the punchline we'll start with you are you Racist well that's uh that feels like a a spoiler I guess I mean look one thing we learn in the movie is that is you know I'm white so I guess the answer is yes you know that's that's uh that is

how they Define racism on the anti-racist side that if you're white you're inherently racist and if you're not then you're not racist no matter what you say you're do so from their perspective the answer is yes and it's actually uh it's it's you Know unlike what is a woman the first movie that we made obviously that's a that was a question that they didn't want to answer it was hard for them to answer uh this is this for them is an easy question to answer now if you were to follow up and say well what

exactly do you mean by racism what what is racism exactly then that becomes a more difficult question but they have no problem pointing to the people who they consider racist and really it's just a Matter of looking at your skin color and deciding from there all right so maybe we could try this maybe I could try to give a case from a psychological perspective for the leftest claims and we could take them apart that way and I think it is see it's a hard conversation to delve into because I don't exactly think this is properly

characterized as a leftist claim it's partly that but it's also a partly a claim of devious manipulative Psychopathic narcissists and that's not exactly the same as a political or an intellectual claim you know just like on the religious front the religious claims of of great monotheistic systems are often hijacked by Bad actors and manipulators that that's the Pharisees in the gospel accounts you see the same thing on the political side but let's delve into this a little bit because there's there's plenty be said about the idea of well we could start with Implicit bias so

that's something that the scientific Community centered at Harvard around masin Boni and her work on the implicit association test that idea of implicit bias is something that the scientific Community the scientific Community has offered to the radicals to butress their claims so maybe we could delve into that a little bit because people need to understand this does that is that Reasonable as far as you're concerned yeah I think so yeah okay so your perceptions all of our perceptions are biased and they're biased towards our goals so when you look at the world basically what you

see is a pathway forward to a goal that you're pursuing and then you see the things in the world that will either help you along that path way or or get in your way everything else is turned into irrelevance and obviously when we look At the world we don't see most of it right we see what what's right in front of us for example but even more specifically we see a pathway to a goal and things that move us towards that and things that get in the way and that could be friends and foes for

example so your your goals do determine your perceptions in large in large uh in large in a large in a large manner now there's exceptions to that if something unexpected happens Because if something unexpected happens and it stops you from moving forward that will attract your attention and you'll turn to investigate it but that's basically the perceptual landscape and one of the implications of that is that we do live inside something that if it's described seems like a story rather than a set of facts okay so this has been more or less understood for something

approximating 100 years because the cych analytic types like Freud and then Yung Kind of coton on to this first that we live we have a perceptual structure that filters the world when we interact with it now the social psychologists got a hold of that and they built a test that purported to measure implicit bias and they showed they said they showed that the the research is unclear and at best it's speculative and um and theoretical they purported to show that we had perceptual biases that favored our ingroups and that's not really that Surprising as far

as I'm concerned because you know you obviously have a inbuilt preference to care for yourself and then you have an inbuilt preference to care for your mother and your father and your siblings and you have a kin preference and then you probably have something like a tribal preference and then you probably have a race preference in so far at least in so far as other race people are somewhat Novel and so on that edifice was built up the notion of implicit bias and of course the Dei types grabbed the implicit bias literature and ran with

it it was a gift and a godsent to the HR types the Karens in the HR world who could then point to Scientific validation and now the maserin Boni of Yale of of Harvard um her colleagues who helped invent the implicit Association test most of them have backed off with regards to its political implications But Dr Boni who's really quite a leftist right down to the core like most social psychologist is still beating the implicit bias drum okay sorry for the lengthy explanation but you can see that the thorniness of the problem and that's an

important thing to attend to because the claim that we have as human beings that we have a bias towards those who are closer to us depending on the dimension of evaluation appears to be true and I'll just close with two things And then please like push on me um that's implicit or unconscious bias it's it's before you perceive that doesn't mean that can't be overcome by learning in fact much of what learning does is modify your implicit biases right because you you have to see something a particular way when you first perceive it but you

can learn to differentiate your perception and to become more sophisticated that's what socialization is for and that's what Education was for is for but also there's no reason to presume whatsoever on the implicit bias front that it doesn't characterize all ethnicities and racial groups equally so well so I'm kind of curious about what you think about all that it's complicated you know the idea that we look at the world through a motivated framework that that's a real challenge to the enlightenment view of rationality and I'm afraid that the enlightenment Rationalists were they or the empiricists

in particular who thought that we derived all of our conceptions from sense data that's not true it's wrong yeah well I think I mean I I don't think I would disagree with anything that you said but with with maybe perhaps the exception of uh you know you said that we've known this for the last hundred years or so I I I would argue we've probably known most of this for as long as human beings have been Self-aware because uh mean just the basic idea that we all are biased and we're all moving through the world

in a you know in a way that we we we aren't seeing things like exactly objectively like robots I think that of course of course that's the case um and we all have our own like priorities and preferences and motivations and goals and everything and you carry that with you and and you bring that into every interaction and W with with with Everybody and and into every situation in your life um now as far as that extends to even racial bi biases I mean uh I I think I think history proves that there's that that

that is often the case also the problem is that on the kind of quotequote anti-racist Dei side of this um the issue for them is that well there a couple of things the big one is that they would probably also agree with a lot of what you just said And even they would say that it kind of vindicates their point of view they would listen to that and say see is what we're talking about except that for them that applies to white people only and if if you were to say well no this is just

the Human Condition this everybody is this way uh they wouldn't they wouldn't track you that far they wouldn't they wouldn't go that far they can't go that far so that that's really the problem to to me that's the The essential problem with the whole implicit bias conversation right now and I might have been different 50 years ago but right now the problem with it is that when we talk about implicit bias we're only talking about it with one group and we're not engaging with it as a um as a fact of human nature but instead

as a fact of like white human nature which which which these people see as something completely distinct and Different from I guess the nature of all other people who are not white and then the second problem with the way that they approach the issue is that they see it as something that they have to fix um which I think is an issue in and of itself because I don't think that it's something they need to fix yeah and then all of their prescription all of their prescriptions for fixing it are completely wrong so there might

be a a kind of a a starting point here where There's some truth in the starting point but then it just falls apart as you continue along I'm taking four of my esteemed colleagues and you across the world oh wow this is amazing to ReDiscover the ways our ancient ancestors developed the ideas that shaped modern society it was a monument to Civic greatness to visit the places where history was made that is ash from the actual fires when the Babylonians burn Jerusalem from 2500 years ago to walk the same roads We are following the path

of the crucifixion and experience the same Wonder [Music] we are on the site of a miracle what kind of resources can human beings bring to a mysterious but knowable Universe science art politics all that makes life [Music] Wonderful and something new about the world is revealed Okay so let's delve into that a little bit more so um on the you said that this has been known you know in some ways since the dawn of time and the idea that people have motivations and goals and that they affect their perceptions that's key to the whole to

the whole universe of Storytelling right because when you tell a story this is actually the definition Of a story is you a story is actually a description of the framework through which someone sees the world so when you go to a movie what the Movie Maker shows you are the goals of the protagonist so in your movie am I a racist and this you did the same thing in in uh what is a woman your goal is to conduct an investigation into something that's key to the culture war and so we watch you as you

pursue your goals and we can see the world through your eyes and that's You're enabling us to do that and the reason that's so useful is because well it's useful for for me to see the world through my own eyes but if I can see the world through the eyes of another person then I get the vantage point that they developed and that they are learning from without having to take any of the risks okay so now there is a huge issue here Matt philosophically underneath all this because the empiricists and so they'd be people

more on the scientific Front who claim that we derive all our knowledge of the world from facts and from objective facts they're wrong and the post modernists pointed that out now they weren't the only people that pointed that out and we really don't know what to do with the fact that we see the world through a story because that's not what the scientists claimed it's not what the enlightenment types claimed and they were definitely wrong and this is a big problem now my Solution to that for what it's worth is that is to observe that

we've had evolved ways of looking at the world they biologically evolved and culturally evolved and they expressed themselves in the form of traditional religious views but you know we can get into that a little bit later and if those decline or or dissolve then you have the emergence of these terrible ideologies so okay so the the implicit bias types and the postmodernists have a point we do see The world through a story okay now here's a here's an explanation of why it's only white people that are racist from the radical leftist perspective that's where I

see the Marxism creeping in so what happened when the in the 1970s the the postmodernist types Dara and Fuko and so forth Fuko is the world's most cited scholar by the way the world's most cited scholar more than Darwin so um the postmodernists climbed In bed with the marxists almost all the postmodernists were marxists to begin with like radically leftist there's no doubt about this on the historical side and then Marxism took a vicious hit on the moral side in the 1970s not least because of Soulja niton who' exposed all the catastrophes of the stalinist

system and then the postmodernists the French in particular they they played a slight of hand game and they transformed Marxism into a multi-dimensional power Game so for Marx the axis of Oppression was economic and I think if you had to make a case for an axis of Oppression the strongest case you could make is economic but the the new Marxist types the the type that we see now as the leftist radical they multiplied that so virtually every dimension of comparison that you could use to categorize human beings became an axis of Oppression right so race

ethnicity sex height looks Ability you name it if it distinguished people it was an axis of Oppression it was like a met metastasized Marxism and because in principle white people are at the top of the oppression hierarchy they're the only ones that can be the oppressor and then so this is where this is the real toxic element of the narrative as far as I'm concerned that victim victimizer narrative it's also empirically Preposterous because it's actually the Case that first of all white people defending on how you define white aren't at the top of the economic

hierarchy in the United States the wealthiest people are Indian Americans from the continent of India for example and Asians of of All Sorts do spectacularly well in the American economy as do Nigerians um black women do pretty well as it turns out and uh Asian women do quite spectacularly well and of course there's the everpresent Uh fact that Jews do disproportionately well too and so it isn't even obvious that white people are at the top of the economic hierarchy but the reason that the radicals insist that racism is only a white problem is because of

this Marxism that's crept into the stew and so well I'm curious about what you think about that yeah well I think right the uh the the victim hierarchy on the left is is what this comes down to and I think what you just pointed out uh and This is a big problem for the leftists that I I they've never come up with anything approaching a satisfactory answer for it but the fact that white people are supposedly at the top of the pile the top of the Heap as it was put to me by someone in

the film um but Asians are actually above white people uh the fact that that what you alluded to that uh African immigrants do by almost every measure significantly better in this country Than black Americans who have lived here for multiple Generations that fact alone is that that completely destroys their entire narrative because you would think that uh if the hierarchy and the the victim axis work the way they said then you would think that you know black immigrants would be would be the worse off because they not only are they black but also they're immigrants

which are supposedly oppressed as well that's not the case and it that's an easy thing to Explain by the way because when you look at all of the groups that that do pretty well in this country and then you compare that with their uh with their marriage rates and their divorce rates you you like there's a the math is pretty simple here a Asians do well they also get married and stay married um you know uh African immigrants get married and stay married um white people do you know our divorce rates are not great uh

out of woodlock birth rates for Whites are going up and uh whites also are are going down are traveling down the other way and becoming less successful in comparison to the these other groups so to me it's um there are probably many factors that explain why these various groups uh perform well but that's that's the number one and uh if there's an exception to this I'm not sure I mean is is there an example of a of a demographic group that has Sky High divorce rates Skyhigh out of wedlock Birth rates but also performs pretty

well economically uh I I can't think of an except exception well there there's an interesting um example on the Asian side so if you bring say um uh first generation Asians do comparatively well in the United States and their children do better than Americans do but if Asians are in the country for three generations then their performance declines to the point of the Average American so there's obviously something cultural going on and it's hard to specify exactly what's going on in the cultures of the Immigrant people who do well but you can speculate at least

probably with particular accuracy on the Asian side that there's a tremendous emphasis on getting the hell out there and working yourself half to death because your parents took the risk of their life by immigrating and you better get your act Together and succeed and so there's a kind of desperation I think that drives the success of the Immigrant groups that you're describing and why that isn't present in our culture well that's a that's a hard question too we don't exactly know what drives people to be conscientious you know and conscientiousness is the big personality predictor

of long-term success and Conscientious people are diligent and orderly and industrious more importantly I would say they probably are good at foregoing immediate gratification and planning for not only for the long term but also sacrificing themselves for the good of other people you know if you're married for example you want to make your marriage work it can't be all about you and it the same applies to your wife both of you have to prioritize the marriage over either of your immediate Short-term needs and you really have to do that with kids even more which is

why I don't think people ever grow up till they have kids because I don't think you can grow up till someone is more important than you are and that doesn't happen to most people until they have children and then it's well it's kind of self-evident at that point and so we don't exactly know what it's what's necessary in a culture to instantiate that ethos of self-sacrifice and Conscientiousness but it does seem to be the case that it's more prevalent among the Immigrant communities that do particularly well would you say this uh the the issue I

just raised with the marriage rates intact Families how much do you think that that plays into it even even like that that's a big part of of raising kids to be conscientious is they have to I would think have a mother and father in the home who are focused on you know Instilling that in them and uh in in the in the in the black community you know the rates of fatherless out of wedlock births are like 70 80% especially in the inner city it's just that this is this catastrophic like apocalyptic type numbers you

can't have a functioning Community or a functioning society when the numbers are that high did you know there's nearly $1 trillion of infrastructure and pandemic funds yet to be spent that's right there's a whole Heap of money that the lame duck Administration is pushing hard to spend in their last few months if the president is able to push these funds out we can see another prolonged inflation surge just like we saw during Co and I'm sure you remember the terrible effects that high prices had on most Americans but there is hope a surgent price can

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financial Future with gold text Jordan to the number 98898 to claim your eligibility and make your purchase before September 30th that's Jordan to 9989 today yeah well there we don't know the relationship between fatherlessness let's say in conscientiousness and that's a study that should clearly be done but we do know that we do know probably more accurately than we know anything else in the developmental psychological literature that Fatherlessness is a catastrophe fatherless kids do abysmally well here's an example M this is so striking everyone listen should take this with with a tremendous amount of seriousness

fatherless girls undergo puberty on average more than one year earlier now that's a walloping biological effect and an early one and the life expectancy of fatherless children is lower as well and that's because they undergo chromosomal damage Because of stress so right at the biological level there are massive consequences of fatherlessness and probably you know having a father is an example of long your father if he sticks around provides an example of longterm other focused commitment across all the ups and downs of life right if you have a father who hangs in there if your

parents are honest you see them contending with each other wrestling with each other fighting with each other As they try to sort out the complex problems of life there's lots of tragedies that a married couple goes through lots of difficulties and the example of committed monogamy shows people that it's possible to make a voluntary Bond a contract or a covenant that extends across decades regardless of the difficulties that life throws your way and you commented on the accelerating rates of fatherlessness in the black community and that is a Complete bloody catastrophe and here's I think

the explanation for it Matt you tell me what you think about this so imagine a pyramidal structure that represents economic position in the patriarchy let's let's put it that way okay now imagine that you you stress the system and one of the ways you could stress it is by defining the family unit as the fundamental basis of Oppression and that all other family arrangements are fine and that it's okay to love Whoever you want for as long as you want or for a short as you want like let's say the next hour and that's perfectly

acceptable and then you throw that into the culture which is what we did in the early 1960s and then you might ask well who is that going to destabilize first and the answer to that's crystal clear the lower you are on the socioeconomic ladder the more catastrophic the results of a sociological intervention like that are likely to be and so the black Community tended to be at the lower end of the pyramidal distribution and so that radical sociological change that emerged in the 1960s affected them first and black families started to fall apart in the

60s and that's been accelerating ever since until we get the numbers that you are pointing to but one of the things we should absolutely 100% be clear about is that Hispanics and Caucasians are not far behind if you so there has been a decline in marital Stability in the white and the Hispanic Community since the 60s and if you match the curves the Hispanics and the whites are about 10 to 15 years behind the black community so that cataclysmic collapse is starting to spread through our entire culture it's just that the black population happens to

be at the Forefront of it and we know perfectly well that fatherlessness apart from the biological effects early puberty for girls why do girls hit puberty early if They don't have a farther around well how about so they become sexually attractive earlier so that a man shows up how about that for a theory which seems to be precisely the explanation and so that's not exactly so good because probably it's not that good to throw yourself into a sexual relationship when you're still psychologically a child despite the fact that you might be physically mature so that's

quite the catastrophe and Fatherless boys are much more likely to be in prison they're much more likely to drop out of school they're much less likely to attain gainful employment they're much less likely to be reliable marital partners and so it's a cascading effect it's a complete bloody catastrophe and even the conservatives have been stupid about this you know I talked to a conservative leader the other day um and I asked him about families and he said well you know as Long as two people love each other and I think no I don't think so

not just as long as two people love each other love each other what does that mean love without commitment you mean does it mean love for tonight does it mean sexual desire or does it mean that you're going to commit to someone for decades for better for worse like what does love exactly mean here and then you know is there a model for love other than Monogamous child- centered long-term committed family it's like well does can three people be a family how about five how about seven swapping sexual partners how about a man and a

man that's not a model that's going to duplicate well across Society because two men have a very difficult time reproducing case anyone hasn't noticed and so the the the fatherless catastrophe is definitely it's Germain Matt and it's Not an issue that people are prone to highlight because they don't want to be hard with the brush of you know Prejudice and Prejudice and judgment they're hard to dissociate from one another and but I can't see any other model for long-term long-term viability of children than stable committed long-term child- centered heterosexual monogamous couples and people can go

to hell in a hand basket as far as I'm Concerned whatever way they want but we're bloody fools if we think there's any ideal at the center of a culture that can replace that and I think the evidence for that is everywhere as you already pointed out yeah I think people uh well the fact that we're not talking about it just means that no real improvements can be made culturally because this is the to my mind the the first issue that has to be addressed and if we're not going to address it then uh You

can't solve anything else farther down farther Downstream um and I think that people don't want to talk about it because yeah it's it's not it's not politically correct it's not sensitive also because I think we just talked about how everyone has their own personal bias I think uh because fatherless rates and out of woodlock birth rates are so prevalent now that a lot of the people who should be having this conversation Don't want to talk about it themselves because they're a part of that very problem you know they've abandoned their kids they've abandoned their marriages

and so they don't want to indict themselves um I do think just to just to back up you said uh you know is it is it enough for two people to love each other and of course this is the the common thing we hear on the left I think that I think the answer to that is that it is enough for two People people to love each other as long as we Define love the right way you know if we all had the right conception of love then we we we could it could just be

as simple as that um and if we Define love I think Thomas Aquin said love is to will the good of the other uh and you know in a religious context I what I would say is that to love is to another way of putting that is to love someone is to try to help them get to heaven and that's my job as a child as a parent I Help my children get to heaven um so if we Define love that way then uh then yes in fact that could be the guiding principle of your

life and if you are trying to will the good of the other at all times then uh it can rarely steer you wrong but people don't see it that way they see it as an emotional thing when we think about wildly successful businesses we often focus on their great products cool branding and Brilliant marketing but there's an Unsung hero in their success stories the business behind the business that makes selling simple for millions of entrepreneurs that business is Shopify shop home to the number one checkout on the planet and here's the not so secret secret

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wire uses sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com jbp All lowercase go to shopify.com jbp today to upgrade your selling that's shopify.com jbp a short-term emotional thing too which is even worse because shortterm matters hey I'll I'll tell you something cool and interesting that's very relevant to this and it's terrifying so in the biological World there are two reproductive strategies you you can conceptualize it as a Continuum and there are low investment Strategies and high investment strategies so the low investment strategies characterize animals Mo many animals mosquitoes fish mosquitoes let's talk

about or fish they there it's uh sex without commitment and many many offspring right so a mosquito doesn't invest in any of its children it there's the sexual element fertilization of many eggs like with fish up to millions of Offspring let's say in the case of of plants for example Puff balls I think produce billions of of spores almost all of them die and just enough survive to prop at the species right so it's a low investment high production strategy on the other end you have animals that reproduce slowly and invest a lot in their

offspring and human beings are the most extreme example of that strategy so we have very few Offspring and we actually make a multi-generational investment in them because it's not only That you're a parent you're also a grandparent and one of the explanations for the human lifespan from The evolutionary side is that we're we we get as old as we get because there's utility to having grandparents around so anyways to have a child a human child that flourishes is requires an investment that spans decades okay so we're a high investment species now imagine you took the

same Logic and you looked within human beings and you said well there's going to be human beings that til more towards a short-term investment strategy and there's going to be human beings that tilt more towards a long-term investment strategy so the short-term investors would be they'd be the hedonists Matt they'd be the ones who are pursuing the one night stand and that believe that love is free and that every form of sexual expression is acceptable and that You should just do your own thing and let it all hang out and they started to what would

you say March forward on mass in the 1960s probably partly because birth control made that a more viable uh philosophy practically speaking okay so then that so let's say you can identify well let's start with men you can identify men who have a short-term mating strategy versus men who are high investment now you might ask well what Are the characterological differences between those men and this is where it gets fun the short-term oriented maters men are Psychopathic mellian narcissistic and sadistic so isn't that fun so what that means for women is that if women pursue

men who are oriented towards one night stands let's say and casual casual sex they end up delivering themselves to the dark tetrad types the psychopathic Narcissistic Ma celan sadists now you can say thing the same thing about women is that women it's rarer for women to adopt a short-term mating strategy because sex is more costly for women obviously they pay a higher emotional price for short-term um pairings they're more likely to mistake short-term pairings for genuine emotional commitment and they're much more likely to be psychopathological if they adopt a short-term strategy to M it independent

Of that and so so what we also see with the breakdown of the family because that breakdown facilitates short-term mating strategies is that we see that the we see the untrammeled rise of the psychopathic narcissists and like I see that making as a clinician I see that making itself manifest in the hedonistic Pride movement continually it's like we could have sex with whoever we want whenever we want under any conditions whatsoever It's like okay who are you oh well we're the psychopathic narcissists who never grew up it's like oh those are you those are the

people marching in the streets for their hedonistic sexual freedom and we're going to turn the culture over to them with their short-term self-oriented pure emotional gratification view of the world where everything's about them now it's no different than turning the world over to the worst behaved 2-year-olds you could Possibly imagine and I mean that technically too because all of that is a sign of radical failure to mature so isn't that fun all that literature has basically come out in the last four or five years identifying the relationship between the psychopathic narcissists and the short-term mating

strategies brutal yeah and it it I was just uh there was a clip that went viral on Twitter I saw a day or two ago of Someone on some podcast a self self- professed queer person uh saying that talking about and he's HIV positive and he was explaining why he doesn't think he should have to divulge the fact that he's HIV positive to any uh sexual partners of his and basically the answer is that like doesn't make you know it it it's uncomfortable for him to talk about it and he shouldn't have to do it

and it just it it kind of goes to show it's and it's right and it's no it's no surprise That this is a self-professed queer person because on the LGBT activist side it is entirely a celebration of the self and pursuing your own desires at any cost whatsoever to the point where now you have uh LGBT activists some of them anyway coming out and saying that you know you should be able to pass along HIV if you want to because it doesn't matter what anyone else says one of my one you know we talk about

this and and how it leads to fatherless homes and Everything else I think the other even more catastrophic uh consequence is that it it also leads to EV the decline in in population because what ends up happening I think is that people give up on having kids and I think there's a lot of people in my generation that were raised by parents like this uh either broken homes or maybe both parents were there physically but they were very self-centered and just kind of miserable parents and so Then those children grow up and that's the only

example of Parenthood that they have and so they associate being a parent parent with just abject misery and so then they um swear it off entirely and I think that that we we see that now I was just talking I on my YouTube channel we I put up a video a couple days ago of a I was went to the Reddit it's called regretful parents there's a Reddit Forum um it's a very dark and disturbing place as you can Imagine and it's just nothing but parents as the name implies parents who had kids and regret

it and now quite openly hate their own children I mean some of these I read a few of them and it's you know mothers with 5-year-old daughters expressing that they hate their daughters um just for existing because their their kids are infringing on their lifestyle and making them do things they don't want to do and then you just think well when those kids grow Up because of course those kids know that they're hated uh even if they can't put put it into words and those kids grow up and they're many of them are probably going

to say well if this is what having kids is all about then I don't want to do it they don't know any other way and then you end up with people that just swear off family life entirely I think because of it well I I think too Matt it's possible that that's also what's manifesting itself in the Proclivity of young people not to date and have relationships you know if you're a there's lots of young women out there who've never seen anything remotely resembling a positive male role model and it's no bloody wonder that those

girls are attracted by the radical leftist insistence that the patriarchy is an oppressive monster you know if you're it's interesting I read Rob Henderson's book um unfortunately at the Moment I can't remember its name but Rob ended up with a PhD in Psychology but he came from the foster care system and his foster parents were broken family types and so were the families of all the workingclass kids that he associated with and it's perfectly possible now to grow up as a girl and never encounter a man who can commit to anything not to a job

not to a person not to his own future right the the funny thing about the hedonists is that they take Advantage of their future selves just as badly as they take advantage of everyone else and this is the problem with being Guided by short-term emotional gratification it's like a 2-year-old is motivated by short-term gratification emotional gratification but you don't see them organizing themselves into effective two-year-old societies and planning for the future like to plan for the future and to take everything everyone else into account requires a Lot of socialization and maturation and it requires a

model and these girls that don't have the model of positive masculinity they assume that men are there to do nothing but take short-term sexual gratification and carry none of the load it's no bloody Wonder they're skeptical of the patriarchy and then avoidant of men and it's no wonder that they also see any claim of a man to being competent and productive as just a lie to mask his essential proclivity to Take advantage and and and depart and so it is a cascading spiral of failure and there's many communities that are caught in that now I'll

give you an example of this it's weird Matt so when I go do my lectures um my wife does the introduction and then she does the Q&A a and uh we didn't exactly plan that um as we've been touring around I've had different people open for me Dave Rubin did for a while my daughter Michaela did for a while I've had Various special guests Douglas Murray for example who've done that at at one point for the opening we were just doing some advertising for this essay product that my son is working on and for this

Peterson Academy that we've launched this online university and Michaela when she was introducing me was talking about those Ventures and then she decided to go pursue her own things and I asked my wife if she would do the intros and she said yes and so that's how that came About and then she did the q&as and that sort of branched into her pursuing her own description of my rules and so forth at the beginning of the show okay so sorry for all the detailed background but one of the things that we found was that people

were very pleased to have her on stage with me and so we were watching YouTube comments for example when people were viewing this and what we came to understand was that a very large Proportion of the audience had never seen a man and a woman sit down together like a married couple sit down together and actually do something productive and useful and peaceful voluntarily together so just this example Matt so when when the audience asks questions for the Q&A those are submitted electronically and then Tammy goes through them to see which ones are upvoted but

also to sort of string together a coherent set of questions in A conversation and so then she ask me the questions and then she actually listens to the answers actively you know and sometimes probes further and we were stunned to find how much of a relief that was for people just to see that it was possible and that's so catastrophic because it shows you the depth of misery I suppose is a good way of thinking about it that characterize so many people's lives is that they're relief Relieved to see a display of genuine cooperation between

a committed man and woman you know that's really sad it's really sad so a lot of these girls who are susceptable to the blandishments of the left it's not surprising in a sense when you look at their if you look at their autobiographical background yeah I think for for the boys too I it's you have girls that as you say grow up and never have an example of A male role model I think it's uh probably even more disasterous for the boys who grow up having never had that example because you know for for a

girl that means that you know they're not going to know uh what to expect from men how to interact with men they're not going to trust men and so on but for boys it means like they don't know how to be what they are and uh that's one thing myself as a father of uh four boys two Of them are still babies but two are are a bit older now and you really notice that as a father when you have sons that they and that's why I think it's it's it's people ask me sometimes like

is it harder to have boys or girls because we have I've two two girls as well I think uh you know there different challenges with with both both sexes but I think probably for a father it's in a way harder to have a boys if you take it seriously because there's more pressure Um I think as a father of girls I think there's a little bit less pressure on you but as boys you you could just feel them watching you all the time because they're looking to you uh to figure out how they are supposed

to be in the world how they're supposed to act they have all the boys have all this kind of energy all of this uh just you know just bursting at the seams with with energy and all these this desire to like I know with my boys that literally They want to run out into the woods every single moment of the day they don't even want to be inside the house they don't want to be contained at all and so they have all of this and they're looking at me as an example of how do you

how do you harness that what do you do with that and uh so it's it's quite a bit of pressure because I know that uh if I give them the bad example um then I've set them up for failure a big part of it is this is this isn't all of it But when you see I think when you see these boys in the inner city that join gangs and they they go out and and and they they do you know not just in the inner city but teenage boys can be known to do things

that are just absurdly dangerous uh almost suicidal even if they are not actually suicidal I think it's because there's this masculine urge for risk-taking and one of the most important roles of a father I think is to show a boy show a boy like how do you Take risks in a healthy way what are what are healthy risks to take um and if you don't have a father there to show you how to do that to show you what that means then you end up you know then you have a a teenage boy who's drunk

and driving 105 miles an hour on a back road somewhere um because that's that's his way of of taking a risk he didn't have a father to show him you know more constructive ways of of taking risks hey there truth Seekers and Freethinkers are you tired of the same old merch that doesn't doesn't quite capture your intellectual Spirit Well buckle up because we've got some exciting news that will make your synapsis fire introducing the official dailywire merch store on Sticker Mule Sticker Mule isn't just any old merch company they are the internet's favorite place for

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that's stickermule.com dailywire yeah well okay a couple of things on that it's like boys are definitely more difficult to socialize than girls there's no doubt about that I I'll say the tables will turn when your daughters become teenag so be prepared for that because they experience a whole new form of exposure to risk then and well so but boys are less agreeable than girls and so they are more um Risk-taking and exploratory so for example men and women differ within the dimension of extraversion men are more assertive and women are more enthusiastic they're they're pretty

reliable sex differences in temperament most of them seem biologically grounded you can distinguish between men and women with 75% accuracy on the basis of Personality scales alone and if you include interest because women are more interested in people and men are more Interested in things on average you can increase that diagnostic ability so that's independent of any physiological signs right just if you just knew someone's personality and their interests you can very reliably categorize them in as men or there's no evidence whatsoever that that's cultural by the way because those differences get bigger in more

egalitarian societies this is very well known by psychologists even if they're afraid to talk about it Which they are so it is harder to socialize boys and the way we socialize them to take risks fundamentally as far as I'm concerned is by encouraging them to take responsibility right and it it's it's a time frame issue again is you want your boys to be able to carry a maximum load and there's Adventure in that but that has to be a socialized Adventure so let's delve into that a little bit how long have you been Married uh

almost 13 years okay why do you like being married oh wow uh well why not just look you're a famous guy and you have a lot of money and so in principle you could have women at your disposal if you wanted to go that route that's very very common for celebrities and so I could say to you look well you know why not have your cake and eat it too you could keep up the the appearance of your marriage but you could be having plenty Of action on the side and I'm presuming you're not doing

that and I and if the opportunity is there which it is now because many men you know many men are going to be monogamous or involuntarily celibate because they don't have the bloody opportunity so there's no morality in that but now in a position where you could well you could pretty much do whatever the hell you wanted on the sexual front and so why are you committed to your marriage what's in it For you well I would say yeah it's it's interesting because there's an you know you could say I have to say this if

I'm uh if I'm speaking publicly but it also and maybe I do but it also happens to be true that there is nothing about the scenario that you just described that I find even remotely appealing um the idea the idea of uh being unfaithful to my wife I find it's not even it's a horror show when I think about it like every aspect of that is a horror show okay Nothing about it I find even remotely tempting okay why why is it a horror show why is it a horror show when you think about it

well because you're you're everything you're bringing into your life is terrible you're bringing lies and deception and betrayal into your into your life uh I also happen to love my wife very much and uh and as we just talked about loving I believe is willing the good of the other that is that is very much not willing what is Good for her or my family um you every part of it I I don't see any advantage I don't see anything about it that's appealing at all um and it's it's the same if I were to

imagine having never been married at all um and being single right now and then at least you don't have the Betrayal and all of that but that also I find incredibly unappealing uh I I quite literally thank God every day that I'm married I I I look at people who aren't and um I feel sorry For them especially especially men and as you point out there are men who who want to be they just don't have the opportunity and I feel an immense amount of sympathy for them um I would hate to be in their

position I don't want to I don't want to lay it on them even thicker if they're watching right now but I just I I I feel for them um I'm incredibly happy to be married all the time and I guess the reason is it's only it's only hard it's only Difficult to answer the question because the reasons are really infinite in a lot of ways but uh it brings it brings meaning into my life every day that wouldn't be there without it you know it brings purpose uh there are people in my life who I

can love in a way that uh if they weren't there I just wouldn't yeah I could you know you could have friends that you love you love your siblings and your and your parents but especially having experienced it now I know that It's just a different kind of love that I have for my own kids and my own wife that if I didn't have them um I wouldn't have any opportunity for that kind of love either to give it or to receive it and um as I said to to me not having that is nothing

but pure horror uh I I I see no advantage of it right so you outlined you outlined two Dimensions there you said that you know if you took the short-term mating strategy route let's say that that would introduce all Sorts of deception and lies and betrayal and Brokenness into your family so that's sort of on the hell side and you know when I used to counsil people who were thinking about having an affair one of the things I would do with them was think it through it's like so so what's your fantasy here I see

so you you found someone new and you're having fun with them and you find them very attractive but they don't have to bear any The responsibility for your continued life together they get all the fun and your wife who you're thinking about cheating on she gets all the responsibility and the burden and so now you have this imaginary person that you do nothing with but play with and that's a person who's also willing to break up a marriage so that's the sort of person that you've Tangled yourself up in and and what you're just going

to keep this secret so you're going to lie constantly Now about everything for the rest of your life while you betray your wife and you're going to pretend that there's something positive in that for you and your wife and your children that's the game that you're going to play and often not always but often when people started to think it through you know they changed their mind now and you also talked about the positive side you know when I worked my first job as a professor was at har and my wife and I Moved down

to Boston and we had our second child there and uh Tammy stayed home with the kids for a variety of reasons one of which was that she didn't have a green card there were other reasons too because she wanted to be with the kids and all I did was work and spend time with my family that was it you know I um because at that point in my life it was necessary to cut out everything that was extraneous if I was going to be successful at those two Things but there wasn't anything I ever found

more enjoyable than spending time with my kids and my wife it was great and you have a quality of love from your children that you will not get anywhere else in your life period and that's the same the same is true if you are actually in a committed relationship with someone and the depth of that what what I've been trying to lecture to people young people around the world is Is that you find the meaning in your life through adopting long-term responsibility and you know your kids are the only people you'll ever meet in your

life who want more than anything else to have a good relationship with you that's what they offer you and that's such a gift I mean you alluded to that it's such a gift and the thing is too it's it's also something you know we have a society that's searching for meaning it's like having a committed Relationship with someone for 60 years which is what you'll have with your kids if you're fortunate that's actually quite meaningful and then you have grandkid too and that's another source of Bountiful provision of stability and responsibility and Love and You

Know conservatives have done a very bad job of selling this to to young people because they always take the dutiful side and and pro pro what portray it as an obligation and not an Opportunity and that's just ridiculous and even on the sexual side so the purely sexual side the people who have the most sex are religious people in long-term committed monogamous relationships at least the heterosexual people who have the most sex so that's pretty interesting who the hell would have guessed that and then you might also contemplate for a moment the difference between sex

with love and sex without love and sex without love Produces a fair bit of postcoidal regret both on the side of the man and the woman and that's a real symptom of just exactly what the hell is going on which is something like Mutual short-term exploitation and then the realization of that and sex with love that's a whole different Enterprise they're not even in the same universe and that's not something that people speak about very much but they should yeah I think and highlighting the I I think you're right That's uh and I say this

as a conservative commentator myself who talks about these issues all the time but you're correct that obviously we have not done um an entirely sufficient job of making this point uh and probably part of it is not highlighting the positives enough and I mean when it comes down to it isn't it's it's an issue of happiness and I think that you I think it's probably true and Maybe there's like rare exceptions very rare exceptions but it's probably true for almost everyone that you cannot be happy you can't be truly happy alone I mean no nobody

can be truly happy entirely alone and now most of us unless you're on a desert island somewhere and if you were on a desert island you would go insane very very quickly actually being that isolated um but most of but we're not on desert island so none of us are actually completely alone but I I Think it probably is true that the closer you are to being alone the more unhappy you will be and the the farth the farthest you can get from being alone is to have a spouse and children now even then you're

you there's there's like a a certain element of aloneness I guess that just because we're human beings and we have our own minds um you know we we in in a certain way there's always going to be that there's going to be a certain Feeling of like isolation I think that we're all capable of feeling no matter how many people you surround yourself with but um as far as you can get from Al loone is to have have a spouse and have children and so and so that doesn't mean now there are plenty of people

that that that have kids and are miserably unhappy I just talked about the regretful parents in the Reddit form so I think it's more accurate to say That if you have a f if you have a spouse and you have children you have the opportunity for the greatest happiness that's available to human beings now you have to take advantage of that opportunity but um it's it's not necessarily going to be automatic but you have the opportunity for it I think about um there's a a movie called into the wild about Chris mandas who was a

a guy who left everything behind I think this was back in the 90s and burned his Credit cards burned his license and his social security card and just went off into the Alaskan Wilderness by himself uh left Society entirely behind and then he was when he was up in the wilderness he uh he ended up eating a poison Berry accidentally and he died out up up in the wilderness by himself and in the margins of his notebook before he died he wrote he wrote something like uh happiness isn't real unless it's sh shared and and

I think that that's I Think that's true and he learned it he he learned it the hard way he learned it the hardest way you could possibly learn a lesson like that but um there is no happiness unless unless you're you're sharing it I feel this you know I I travel a lot for my job as I know you do and people ask say to me all the time well it must be nice so you get to go out and travel and see the world and you're you know you you get a break from the

wife and Kids and the truth is that when I'm traveling you know I'm going to do a job even if I'm in a really cool place I don't go do a lot of sightseeing and in the on the few occasions when I do get out and do something kind of fun on my own it's just it's not that fun anymore because I don't have all I can think to myself is well wish had my kids here I wish I had my wife here to see this because they they would really enjoy it and because I

can't share that moment With them uh you know it's nice but it's just lacking a certain quality um that it could otherwise have so our whole culture in so far as our culture is judeo-christian and it's particularly emphasized on the Christian side our whole culture is predicated on the idea of sacrifice right that's why we have the crucifixion at the center of our culture as a symbol it's a sacrificial symbol and you're pointing to why it's like you You find the meaning in your life in the sacrifice of your Solitude and your narrow self to

the Future and to the broader community and it really is in that where we find not only our happiness map which you pointed to so our hope for the future let's say our enus enthusiasm and our courage we also find our riskit from anxiety there's no difference between being self-conscious and being anxious they're statistically indistinguishable from one another the More you think about yourself the more miserable you are and so it is the case and human beings are so deeply social that we can punish Psychopathic Predators by putting them in isolation just think about that

what that means for how social people are you can take the worst people the most predatory people the repeat violent offenders who can't regulate themselves at all who act like they hate everyone and are and do nothing but pray and if you put them in Solitary they find that torturous that's how social human beings are you know in your observation that you only find realistic meaning in communal experience it's like I feel the same way when I'm traveling I mean I take my wife along and we often have family members and Friends Along and that

makes a huge difference but I'm just not that interested in having fun without my wife mostly because it's just not that fun you know I'm not to for Christ's sake I'm not searching for immediate gratification it's shallow and we have a crisis of meaning in our society and it is because people don't understand the relationship between responsibility like long-term committed responsibility and meaning that's where all of it is to be found and that's even true as you get older like like I can't imagine what my life would be like now if I didn't have my

kids and my grandkids and my wife like what the hell what am I going to be Doing something trivial and pointless to while away the time it's so dull and dry there's no depth in it at all and like conservatives have done a terrible job of showing young people that commitment and meaning are the same thing it's so interesting to watch this because I've noticed when I lecture that whenever I draw a relationship between responsibility and meaning the audience always goes dead silent because no one's made that case least of all the Conservatives who are

always on about Duty and you know you did a much better job today than the typical conservative let's say in highlighting what you find so spectacularly positive about having a family you know it also does a lot for your genuine regard for s you know because if you can view yourself as somebody who's reliable and committed in the face of all of life's catastrophes and that you can keep your word across time then You're not some miserable cringing milk soop of a thing that's blowing in the wind and crushed by every one of life's minor

tragedies right you're trying to live out a pattern of someone who can take a fair bit of battering and still Prevail and be a model of that sort to your kids which they look to you for part of the reason your boys torture you and push you is to find out what you're made of your wife does the same thing and you know maybe you can find out that You're made of more than you think if you are willing to put a little committed effort into the situation so let's turn to the move sorry go

ahead M I was gonna say that's uh that's an interesting point because I was thinking about it the other day that um I agree with what you said at the beginning of the conversation that you you're not you don't really grow up until you have until you get married and have kids I certainly see that in my own Life and I didn't I got I got married when I was 25 had kids when I was or first set of twins when I was 26 uh and I and I look so I look at my life

up to the age of 25 and um I see all of that as basically childhood I don't I look at myself at 22 and I don't it's like I might as well have been 12 uh in a in a lot of ways um because for me adulthood started once I was actually uh a husband and then a father and I think and also for me even it's interesting because I I In in in the culture we're always told that having a family is going to prevent you from being financially successful um because it's an extra

financial burden and it is true there's more it is more of a financial burden quote unquote if you want to put it that way but it hasn't been my experience that it prevents success in fact I didn't my own career didn't really take off until the moment when I had kids and I could almost there's almost like a starting Point right there and I could draw a line going up from that moment and I think part of the reason for all of that is that um to the point you just made that I really started

to take myself a lot more seriously when I was a husband and a father I mean I had the responsibility to care for my family but I also just started to see myself as a grown man in the world um and take myself a lot more seriously and I think that that especially as a man that's one One of the prerequisites to you know being successful is to is to see yourself as a serious person which I think a lot of young men probably don't see themselves that way and then and then as a consequence

the world doesn't see them way you're probably not a serious person until it's about more than you and that means you don't bring Grim seriousness of intent to your Pursuits and the developmental literature is very clear on this like Most young men are quite proplate and hedonistic let's say with regard to their consumption of alcohol and why well because it's fun you know we like to think that people drink to drink away their misery and there is some truth to that because it is a good respit from anxiety but mostly people drink to party and

have a good time which means to engage in hedonistic stupidity of various forms and the reason that people do that is obvious It's they do that because the substances like alcohol that people use are physiologic I Ally rewarding they activate the dopaminergic systems that's the same system that's activated when you're pursuing a worthwhile goal the real question is well why not just drink and use cocaine all the goddamn time and the answer to that that people usually come up with around the age you did is that they take on responsibility and decide that that's actually

more Worthwhile and so then young men do start to take themselves seriously into work and then doesn't matter that they're burdened by the obligations of a family because that's actually something that becomes motivating and so it's not a burden it's an opportunity to mature and to show that you're capable of a hell of a lot more than you thought you were if you just sto doing all the stupid things that were interfering with your life and so what's the consequence What has been the consequence for you personally in taking on that additional responsibility you know

you said you regard yourself as a child or an overgrown teenager until you got married so what has been the consequence for you of starting to take your own life with some degree of mature seriousness well the consequence for me has been uh has been entirely positive I mean it's it's you know I say That there's a starting point from when I had kids to now and I can draw almost like a not a straight line up but you can see the incline um from there and it's not it's not quite as simple as that

but um I I I can trace all whatever success I've had in life uh you know both career-wise financially pretty spiritually pretty much in every sense I can I I can start it there from um from starting a Family and realizing that you know all everything I'm doing really matters because it's it's not just for me I guess that was a big part of the problem when I you know I can I can think back I I moved out house when I was 20 years old um so not not too early but also urly compared

to a lot of people these days I moved out when I was 20 got married when I was 25 so there's about there almost exactly five years in between when I was living on my own but I wasn't but I was single I wasn't married and uh yeah and there was you know there was an opportunity for a lot of the partying and all the proplate uh stuff that you talk about there's some of that but I remember mainly as a time of just it was a very miserable time I was not happy um and

I think it's because like I didn't say I had a job I was I was working at the job I was trying to advance in my career but then I come Home to this empty apartment and there's just nobody there and it doesn't really matter to anyone else what I do or whether I succeed at all and uh and I found that to be quite burdensome it was much more B much more burdensome than having a family they having a family actually lifts that burden um because coming home and just knowing that it's like it

doesn't it literally would it's like it doesn't matter to anyone in the world Really except except for my parents um and they're not as invested in it as say your kids and your your wife will be uh it just doesn't matter to anyone whether I'm successful and uh I just found it you know maybe there's a way to push through that maybe there's a way I mean there are people I don't think so no I don't think so I don't believe it because why like what's the point and that and that's very important because there's

lots of suffering in life and so If there isn't a point man good good luck to you and the point seems to be in something like the adoption of maximal responsibility like that that's the that's the that's the story of all our great adventure stories our great romantic adventure stories the hero is always the person who takes on maximal responsibility always right like Frodo to destroy the ring of power well there's a maximal responsibility he fleshes out his whole Character in the course of his quest so that he can contend with the allseeing eye of

the totalitarian state and the terrible burden of power no one there's a reason those stories Echo I guess the the only uh caveat I would I would make here is that I think in some cases it is possible to have a a happy and successful life where where you have responsibilities or fulfilling your responsibilities have a sense of purpose And meaning it is possible to have that um and to to not get married and not have kids uh there are some people that I believe are called to to uh forgo that but in those cases

that means and if we're talking about a man that means that they're going to find another outlet for this kind of paternal as a man I think we're all called to some kind of paternal service in the world and uh for most men that means having kids and if you can't have kids it means Adopting that's going to be most men uh there there are going to be some men though small minority who aren't aren't called to that and so they find some but you have to find some other way to kind of act as

a father in the world and you know as a Catholic I would say one of the one of the best examples that maybe you're called to the religious life maybe you're called to be a priest or a monk um that certainly can be a very happy and joyful life and but but that Is also it's like you're not just working some job and trying to make a lot of money for yourself and then coming home to your Empty Apartment uh you we call a priest father so you are a father in a different sense in

a spiritual sense so there is that but I think the point is that you can't discard that entirely and say I don't want to be in service to anyone I don't want to be a father in any sense of the term at all I don't want to have anyone Depending on me at all and I just want to focus on myself and have fun if that's your mentality there's just no way to be truly happy um except in the mo except in those fleeting moments that you talk about get more and more desperate to pursue

those fleeting moments too that's the cataclysmic abyss of Hedonism because those those will also get more and more rare the more you pursue them you know I talked to Joo willink Joo wanted to be a Mayhem Distributing solder from the time he was about three and you can tell that by just looking at him cuz he's such a monster you know and and he I imagine he was a boy that was quite difficult to socialize right cuz there are lots of boys who are well 5% of boys kick hit bite and steal at the age

of two very few girls by the way but about 5% of boys most of those boys are socialized by the age of four by the way and most of the people Who are miserable with their kids have no idea how to discipline them right so they're it's like they have they're not living with three kids they're living with three unhoused stupid attack dogs and it's no bloody wonder that they're miserable because they're too fragmented and clueless and poorly educated and undisciplined to have any understanding at all what it means to bring your children under some

sort of acceptable Social order and so that's a complete catastrophe I mean it's it's obviously the case that disregulated social relationships can make your life hell but that doesn't mean as you pointed out that that's implicitly the case because you don't have to let your children run rough shot over you doesn't take that much Jesus how much discipline does it take for a grown man to bring a three-year-old into alignment I mean he's three you can probably take him Both psychologically and physically and if you can't well then you're a coward fundamentally or you've had

very bad models um in any case Joo when he went off to to be uh the Special Forces character that he developed into discovered very quickly that he really liked mentoring and that that was way better than just what would you say living for the sake of adventurous Mayhem and you know that was a real profound realization on his part that There wasn't anything better he could find to do with his life his like monstrous Viking Life easily could have been a criminal right taken that pathway because he's got that aggressive temperament he found that

there was nothing better that he could find than to Mentor young men and to that's to adopt that paternal role there was deep source of meaning in that that's the spirit of the patriarch that's celebrated in the biblical stories it's Part of the man manifestation of the spirit of the god of Isaiah and Abraham that long-term paternal Focus that's committed and the opposite of idiot Hedonism and pride so which is celebrated for months now on our society at a time so Matt let's take a turn to your movie do you want to walk people through

that a bit I saw it by the way and it looks to me like you'll have the same kind of radical success with it that you did with what is a woman you've Got this every man quality about you you know you and you I think it's true by the way I mean there is some of that about you but you also do a good job of being a naive investigator into the crazy world of ideological possession do you want to walk us through the movie a little bit sure um yeah you know we we

decided we of course we had what as woman and uh and it was very successful for us and and we're thinking about you Know this is going back two years ago thinking about um what what what topic do we want to tackle next and how to tackle it and for me it was very clear I wanted to get into we talked about you know we did the movie we we investigated gender broadly speaking um race is the other big one culturally and so I knew I wanted to investigate that um the question was like how

do you Approach it and with what is woman I mean the the strategy is right there in the title is just this this one basic question that the whole thing hinges on um now with with race it's not not quite like that there isn't one there's a lot of questions there's not one basic one uh um it's just a different it's a different beast in a lot of ways and so uh and we also didn't want to repeat just uh the you know we didn't want to do what is a woman but with race So

at this time we thought it'd be interesting to take a different approach and that is to start uh as the clueless naive investigator asking questions the only difference here is that whereas with what is a woman I was kind of a blank slate the whole way through just asking questions not not having any real like position on it myself in the film until the very very end um in this one we thought well okay Well what if what if uh I start by asking questions and rather than remaining a blank slate and remaining skeptical I

I'll just believe whatever I'm told uh so they'll give me an answer and I'll accept that and then I'll let that answer lead me to the next place um and that's that's the strategy we took with with this and it kind of takes us and we really did approach it in in filming this way so that we had a really Broad outline of what what where we wanted to go with the film and where we wanted to end up but you can't really script it out because we go to talk to someone we don't know

exactly what they're going to say or how it's going to go and so this is why filming it was over a year was a long process because we kind of let we let the story guide us and uh went down the rabbit hole that way and in the process um because I'm kind of believing what these anti-racist Dei people are telling me and and sort of adopting their views and trying to trying to put them into practice so that was the that was the goals to not just ask them about it but to take what

they say put it into practice on screen so that people can see it and um so it's a much more direct I think way of kind of sterzing these ideas maybe even than we did in what as a woman you got Dei certified okay so a Couple of comments so you adopt a Persona you've got a man bun I've got a hint for you if you ever do this again is you have to learn to upt talk at the end of your sentences you have to make every sentence into something that sounds like a question

because your voice gives you away because you've got this flat authoritative voice like you just make declarative statements there's no question in them and one of the things you'll notice about the the Dei Types this is very telling is that they always end every sentence with an upt talk it's it's a form of validation seeking and you're Bel lied by your authoritative voice as a Dei man bun specialist and so you might want to give that some consideration when you're trying to pass for one of the people who you're investigating anyways you went got Dei

certification so I'm kind of wondering if that might be handy for you to re-educate me and so and also since I Seem to be uh destined now to being re-educated by Dei specialists um you took that training what the hell was that like uh well it was very easy it turns out um lit literally anyone can get Dei certified is what we discovered uh because there's no it's it's not like there's some official process uh it's not like you know there's it's not like becoming a certified to be a plumber and electrician you know it's

not anything Like that it's not a real profession it's not a real thing [Music] so anyone anyone can uh get certified anyone can declare themselves an expert is what we discovered and how long did take you how long did it take you the actual process of getting certified yeah yeah I don't know 30 minutes maybe so you mean I could go get Dei certified and then I could present that to the Ontario College of Psychologists as evidence for my successful re-education you absolutely could and should I mean I could give you I don't the website

in front of me there's a certain website we went to to get our to get our certification and I'd happy to pass it along to you I think you absolutely should do that oh it do I don't know if yeah it it it opens up a lot of doors we we found and um you know even aside From the the certification It's really because you're right that that's that's kind of one of like the meta jokes in the movie that yeah I'm like wearing a costume but it's not that convincing it's it's really just a

man bun I don't even shave my beard we talked about we talked about yeah in in the in the process of of making the film we we we thought that it'd be very difficult to get in the room with these people if all I'm wearing is a wig because I am I do Have a pretty distinct look and sound and so the idea was floated well maybe I shave the beard that would be a pretty drastic change of my look that that was a no-go for me I'm not going to do that there are some

things I'm just not willing to do um but what we found is that it actually didn't it didn't matter because even the wig probably didn't matter that much all they want to know is that you are repeat there's certain just buzzword and phrases that if you Repeat them back to these people uh they will accept you as part of the tribe and they're not going to be very skeptical about it we it was the same thing we were making what is a woman we got in the room with a lot of these types in the

gender space and there was no disguise at all in that case um and the way we did it was just all you have to they're just looking for the the key words and um if you if they think that you part of the tribe then They drop all the defenses and they'll sit in the room with you and I think part in both those those cases part of the reason why it was so easy uh may not be so easy for anyone who tries to do it again now after we made both these movies but

it was easy at the time because all of these people live in a in a bubble um they live in a world where they're they're never challenged on their beliefs they're never even around anyone who would disagree with them so I Think for them uh the idea that they might be interviewed by someone who fundamentally disagrees with them was really just like Unthinkable they never even considered the possibility because they're never even around those kinds of people um and we we really kind of punctured that bubble I guess in making the so the most surprising

thing to me and I don't want to be speaking out of turn here was the fact that you got to talk to Robin Dangelo and Robin dangelo famously is the author of um white fragility which is really one of the most Dispicable books I would say that's ever been written and I think she also fits into that category as a thinker and likely as a human being and um is it reasonable for you to talk a little bit about that I don't know how you managed that and I don't want to blow punch line but

yeah I think there's most of the Content of that of that exchange with her I think they don't want me to talk about at this point and give away the spoilers okay okay that that that conversation does go to a place that's um maybe will be unexpected for a lot of people but um the fact that she's in the movie is no secret we have her in the trailer and right uh and that that kind of goes what I what I just said that I think for her she she's probably the prime example of this

because you would Think if you didn't know any better you would think it'd be difficult to get Robin D'Angelo into a room um and that she'd be looking out for anyone who maybe who who maybe isn't her in her tribe she'd be looking out for this kind of for example because you know you might you might suggest that possibly Robin D'Angelo if she was even vaguely informed about absolutely anything that she purports to be doing would know who the hell you Are right you would think but yeah apparently not because because I I think she's

probably the prime example of this of someone who I in her day-to-day life she probably almost never even interacts with or speaks to anyone who is not um as far to the left as she is on all these issues or at least almost as far uh that's that's just the world that she's in and so when I'm sitting across the room with her having a conversation I mean it's probably the first time in Years if not ever that she has in this case unwittingly but has found herself sitting in a room with someone who fundamentally

disagrees with her um about almost everything and uh and I don't know these these academic leftist types that's the kind of bubble they're in for a lot of us we we you know for me obviously because I am conservative and uh you know my family's conservative and I work here at the daily wire most of the People that I'm around are conservative but you know I interact with people that are farle all the time it's um it would be a lot more difficult for someone on the left to do to me what we did to

Robin D'Angelo because I'm aware that these people are out there I know who they are I'm looking out for that kind of thing it'd be a hard it'd be hard for them to pull off um because I'm just not in the same kind of bubble I guess that she is so two two more questions about The movie um what did you learn as a consequence of doing it and why should people go see it as far as you're concerned I think there are there are several things maybe maybe the main thing that I learned and

I don't know if it's learn so much as had Illustrated for me um but the extent to which a lot of people that fall for this you know there's the there are the People that push it the robin D'Angelo types uh the women who run the race to dinner who we have in the film oh yes that's Sarah ra yeah Sarah raal yeah the DI she's the worst person on Twitter which is really or arguably the worst she every single thing that that woman does is self-serving and malevolent to the bloody core she is a

real Miracle toally she runs those dinners where the white women pay to be Humiliated by two unbelievably narcissistic Psychopaths so that they can feel good about themselves without actually having to do any moral e having to put in any of the moral effort exactly exactly and that's and that's the thing so those types of people the people that are running the show you know that's one thing and I don't know how much they even believe a lot of what they're saying I don't think they believe all of It certainly um and there's not a lot

to be learned about them I think that they're kind of you they're grifters they're con artists uh they're making a lot of money on this stuff that's that's a a big part of the motivation it's not very complicated um but what's more interesting to me are the it's like the women who would sit around that table who are paying money to be there or the people that would That would willingly attend one of these seminars that we have in the film people that would willingly read Robin D'Angelo's book I've always I'm more interested in them

like what what's going on with them and what I found making the film is that uh you really can't overstate the guilt that these people are walking around with what white guilt white Guild is a very real phenomenon and I knew that making the movie but Having it Illustrated so profoundly was still pretty enlightening to me uh that a lot of these people are just they're they're walking around with a lot of guilt and uh for someone for like a a a sane rational white person like myself and you it's it can be kind it's

it's hard to understand because I I've never spent any time feeling guilty about slavery or Jim Crow I had nothing to do with it I it's it's it's just it's I've never spent any time feeling guilty About it at at all and so it's hard for us to understand people who are over not not only have they felt guilt about it but they're overcome with guilt by this kind of thing and um yeah I guess how much of that is that how much of that though too is that they want to Signal how overcome by

guilt they are so that they look like hyperoral agents you know it's like I see the same thing with mothers in particular who brandish their trans Children like their a flag of Pride it's like oh look at how upset and Confused my child is and yet I'm still wonderful enough to love them no matter what you know it's a really malevolent game and that parading your self- flatulation as a indication of the profundity of your guilt that's a pretty bloody ugly game too now you know I understand that there's a fair bit of genuine moral

confusion mixed in there but the self-serving in public you notice that Those women go to those dinners in groups it's not Sarah Roo and her pathological partner with one woman they have to do that in groups so they they can signal to each other the depths of their moral virtue yeah I think that that's that's certainly right there's a certain amount of virtue signaling that goes into it for sure um but if you're in you know the race to dinner just using that again as an example and that's you know that's Seven or eight minutes

in the movie but in real life of course you're making a movie uh the especially movie like this they take a lot longer to film and that was really two hours I mean that that dinner went on for two hours and you can see these women sitting around at this table at various points crying uh seemingly very much overcome with emotion talking about their racism that they feel you know and given Opportunities to talk about examples of when they're when they committed racist acts and then they share their examples and it's like none of the

examples they give our actual racism and yeah again some of that is them just showing off but I do think that at the core of it there is real guilt here and my own and we could spend another two hours psychoanalyzing this but I think my own theory about how they can feel this guilt is that uh it's a It's a replacement for religion I mean these are almost all of them are irreligious people even if they would call themselves Christians they're not really and um and you know traditionally religion has given us an answer

for guilt because we all do now I don't feel any I don't feel any racial I don't feel any white guilt but I do feel guilt I I do experience guilt uh for things that I do that are wrong if I commit sins I feel guilty about them but then I turn To my faith and that gives me an answer for number one why I feel that guilt what that guilt is from and then what to do with it what do I do about it about that guilt um and I can turn to my faith

and get an answer to all of that but if you take religion out of it well now you've still got people that are sinning that are doing evil acts and so they're still going to feel the guilt because of it but they don't have a way of understanding that guilt they don't have Any way of interpreting it and so they look around for someone to tell them what to do with the guilt and then these race Hustlers are there and and they'll tell you oh I'll tell you why you feel guilty it's because of this

yeah that's a good analysis I think that's a big part of it well I think that's a good analysis I mean look when you were a somewhat propagate 24y old you needed to channel the meaningless and meaninglessness and the guilt that was Associated with your unmowed life into something that was properly sacrificial and you got married and you had kids and that that provides a pathway you know that where you can discharge your moral duty that's the thing is that if you're it's necessary for human beings to discharge their moral duty with otherwise they'll be

overwhelmed by feelings of inadequacy and and self deprecation and that's because we are communal and social creatures and we Have to live in relationship to other people and if we don't do that we violate our deepest instincts or our most Divine calling you know and as you said for the typical person you find that experation of your self-centeredness in responsibility to your wife like long-term committed responsibility and to your kids and your grand kids and to that multigenerational endeavor and if we didn't have that propensity for Guilt we wouldn't be Social the way that we

are and it can be exploited by the sadistic narcissistic histrionic Psychopaths and the women who run that race to dinner are great examples of that man there's something to watch and hey let me let me ask you one more question Matt um I don't think I could do what you did and I wonder what that points to in in terms of the difference between our temperament you know that room that you were in with all those uh people that what the hell were They there for um you're in a group of people and they they

kind of figure out that you are in fact a conservative interloper what what was that what was that scene why are you yeah that was a uh that was a group kind of a seminar for people for white people that are struggling with uh their their grief their white grief over their privilege and so if you're a white person with white privilege and you're Grieving Your Privilege it's a support group for that uh that was that was kind of where we started the film right now you see I I would have a very difficult time

doing that because for me to produce that kind of interpersonal tension in a group like I find that extremely discomforting and I'm not proclaiming this as a virtue by any stretch of the imagination I would say that that is a v that I've had to learn to control Because if you're too much like that you can't say things that need to be said because you're too up concerned with you know causing emotional distress in the moment but you seem to be able to tolerate a lot of that and I'm wondering like how do you how

did you actually feel in that situation where all these people were displaying signs of discomfort and you were being unmasked and and why are you willing like I want to know how you feel about that what What kind of emotional state it produces but also why you're willing to to do it uh in the moment uh it's extremely uncomfortable and not not fun um as you can imagine like it's not it's not an enjoyable experience to be just to be in that room to begin with even if I was standing off on the in the

corner watching I'd find to be quite miserable and that's the case with with most of the the scenes in this movie and In the last movie uh be just be being in rooms that are it's it's I wouldn't choose recreationally to be in those rooms with those people um it of course it goes against I am a human being and so it does go against our kind of in our wiring to intentionally say and do things that are going to create more tension and are going to bring attention to you in a very negative way

like that's I don't think anyone is wired to do that at least I'm not um so in the Moment it's I can't say that it's very enjoyable but um we are the fact that we're making a a film and we're making a film and we're trying to tell a story and we're we're attempting to reveal something in in a humorous comedic way but so I just have that ever present in my mind and so I'm willing to do it to be in those rooms and to cause these extremely uncomfortable situations um because because we're We're

we are telling a story and uh and in both of these films this one in particular but even the last one um I I do look at it like we we're we're exploring an issue you know we're investigating an issue an important issue but even before that I look at it as a film so it is a story we are we are telling we're storytellers we are telling a story and uh and so to me when we're making the movie it's like that comes first it's like what what do we Need what do we need

for the scene what do we need for the story here's what we need for it and I'm just going to go in and get it uh no matter what and that's all that matters like turn the cameras on let's roll let me go get what we need for this scene I don't care how uncomfortable I feel we're g to get it and uh because that that's what matters for this and so I guess it's just like I probably feel similar to how you would feel but I see Okay okay suppress it best to the best

that I can well you could contrast that I would say with the attitude of let's say Sarah r with that underlying histrionic narcissistic sadism because I think that she takes positive Delight in all the misery that she produces at those dinners she's not uncomfortable at all and and then you might say well how do you justify that to yourself is you think these contemptible fools get Exactly what they deserve and if they're stupid enough to let me pray on them then I'm not going to be weak enough to have any sympathy for them in fact

quite the contrary and that's really the attitude of the true sadist you know I talked to a woman a week and a half ago whose father was the founder of the Church of Satan and she was very involved in that until well until she figured out that her dad was A like he was the evil clown at the town circus you know and it took her a long time to sort that out but like so many predatory types his attitude was if you're stupid enough to fall for my nonsense then you deserve every horrible thing

that can possibly come your way and you know that's definitely the attitude that someone like Sarah riy takes is that if these fools will let me fleece them then they're the Sheep who deserve to have their wool taken and That it's a very it's a very very predatory predatory and malevolent orientation towards the world and there's so much of that in the radical leftist world you know I used to go these protest that used to spring up around me especially when I was stupid enough to go talk to University students um I'd see all these

women all these women in the audience these young women in their little groups braying out their idiot cliches and that was pretty toxic And and awful but what was even worse the predatory men that were in their group trying to be their friends so that they could connive them into bed with their you know claims of allyship a level of narcissistic malevolent predatory psychopathy that once you have the eye to see can't be unseen and so it's a terrible thing to watch so many confused people who've come from Des devastated families fall prey to the

psychopathic machinations of the radical Leftist grifters and you did a lovely job in the movie of exposing that I think and I imagine it'll be quite successful how many theaters do you know that you're opening in that the the final numers to be determined but I know we're in we're in hundreds now and they're uh adding more theaters every day because the pre-sales at this point are really strong so we're grateful for that um uh you know I feel I feel optimistic about it it's obviously for The daily wire it's the first time we've put

a movie in theaters it's uh we're not the first of course we're not the first conservatives to put a movie in theaters but it is still a relatively rare thing um to have conservatives competing in that particular Arena and there's always a risk involved because but the risk is also the the whole reason it's worth doing is that there's a there's a we are in an arena where there's an actual Scoreboard um which is the box office and you can't argue with box office either it's successful or it isn't uh but I think if conservatives

want to have if we're serious about taking back the culture and getting involved in entertainment and all these things then you got to get out of the kind of conservative ghettos and go into these places where there is a scoreboard and you could be judged based on that and if you're successful then nobody can deny It if you're not then you know it's an embarrassing embarrassing you take the hit but you got to be willing to take that risk and uh so there's a risk involved but I also think um we talked earlier about taking

smart risks and I think this is a smart risk because I I I believe it's a entertaining movie it's a movie that's hitting at exactly the right time for the culture and um and I I think the audience will rally around it uh both Because of the message but also because it's just entertaining and uh so I I feel cautiously optimistic about where it's headed yeah entertaining in a slow prolonged slow motion train wreck sort of way exactly exactly yeah so it comes out tell us again when it comes out am I a racist when

it comes out it comes out September 13th is when it'll be available uh in theaters to watch but again you can go to um mist.com to pre pre-order the tickets and I know I never Pre-order tickets in my life up till now um it's not something people usually do but uh it is important for the success of this film to pre-order them so mist.com is you can get the tickets now all right Matt well good luck with your movie um you seem to have a real uh knack for delving into complex social issues at a

very explicable level and also to time doing that spectacularly well and it seems like am a racist fits that Pattern and so well good luck with the your theatrical release and I presume we'll get a chance to talk about what happened at at some point in the not so distant future for everybody watching and listening I'm going to talk to Matt for another half an hour I think I'm going to delve into a little bit about the development of his career he pointed out on this YouTube interview that you know once he adopted something approximating

adult seriousness with Regard to his life and was fortunate enough to find a woman who could put up with him that he transformed the way that he was approaching things and I want to I want to walk I want to analyze that in a little bit more depth so you could join join us on the daily wire side for that and that's exactly what we're going to do thank you very much sir uh it was good talking to you as it always is and uh as I mentioned uh best wishes on the success of your

movie Thank you I appreciate it [Music]