on so ladies and gentlemen this is a extremely off-the-cuff video I just thought it would be very entertaining informative for you all literally last Wednesday so we can go at this point we hired our new performance marketer at the agency first of all let me introduce with Danny has gotten some screen time in the past I think most of you guys know who Danny is Danny is the all right why do you have another chair by camera shot Ramon is his dog but so for these guys who don't know Danny it has been working as a part of the organization we've been working together for like two years at this point initially Danny was a contractor and then he came on full-time and he's been working full-time for well over a year and a half at this point and now Danny is the chief marketing officer at ABC we have our new performance marketer he manages appointment centers that were bringing on imagines a whole sweep of things he does the first touch point the first demo call with clients and then if they're a good fit then we have our proper sales call together and proper discovery call so yeah that's Daniel anyways I won't video because I know a lot of you guys have asked me time and time again where do I find good performance marketers and media buyers and I think I'll make a separate video on that specifically on where to find them today I just want to talk about how to vet them and how to make sure you have good quality media buyers performance marketers whatever you wanna call them so a little bit of background we got around a hundred and fifty ish applications from those 150 ish applications we had a bunch of vetting questions from those we brought down five interviews so Danny did 45 interviews from that we brought it down to a shortlist of seven people that Danny was like oh these are awesome contenders then Danny gave him almost like a treasure hunt challenge kind of thing that used a bit of common sense and a bit of and you know some very open-ended questions that will tell you what some of those were today and then that brought it down to three and then I interviewed three and then from there we made our decision and brought on our new performance marketer Louise so um I'm gonna start off by just telling you you know from someone who's coming up to a team both that you know now with the education company as well as the agency coming up to having almost ten people in my team now which is nuts thinking about it but um I'm gonna tell you performance marketer copywriter videographer it doesn't matter who this is these character traits are what you need to look for number one non entrepreneurial okay I think people have almost like a dirty connotation around that like if someone's non entrepreneurial that means that you know they're not like motivated like I can tell you my team is more motivated than any entrepreneur met ever so salt but you know for example Karen's mentioned this a long time he's like even props to you that you can go to bed at night and sleep with 80,000 pounds a month in expenses I couldn't do it I would I would probably just drink away my sorrows you know so if that's the first things first is you're not looking for a performance mark if you're trying to bring someone on full-time don't look for someone who is like don't look in SM MA like how to build a SMM a group for a performance marker right you want someone who has a love and a passion for the process not the result right he want someone who has a love and passion for the art and the science of advertisement and performance marketing not the result of it the main reason for this is basically you are going to invest a lot in them Simon has invested on me on my learning on everything you're going to invest in this new team member and you don't want this to be a short-term thing because it will just become expensive just because you are also spending a lot of time with them you are training them up they are learning all the systems we have in place for for your agency how to manage plans have to speak with them and if in a year from now they'll okay I'll learn my thing I I know how to do it I'll just do it myself because they as humans say they are intrapreneurial well you probably your ear pro it's becoming expensive to you just because of the training and then you'll just have to train another one it's just kind of a lesson that he has learned but that's why it's one of the logistical kind of things that we look for in in a performance marketing so you know I've never had that issue obviously in terms of a performance marketer and I haven't really had any that issue in terms of team except for my first hire and that I guess wasn't so much entrepreneurial that brought me to my second point which is you want people who don't want to be social media influencers you know everyone in my team is either private or now that now they're public that would like a thousand fault like you won't see Danny posting like so guys I'm just working on client campaigns you won't see him posting his food like he's just busy living is like like like a normal human should dude same thing with Kieran you know yes you can have someone who post something like here and but you don't want a media BIOS you don't want performance market or a bigger buy or any team member to be honest who's like addicted to social media and just on their phone every day like unless you're beautiful unless you're actually using your social media for business there's no point like honest and there's no uses like if I didn't have green sea and I only had my agency and I didn't have my clothing line I wouldn't have a social meeting full stop like it's the worst thing ever and honestly I can say that from blowing my heart so don't want people who are entrepreneurial you look at some social media and looking like are they overtly active on their because they're kind of weird that there are six seven stories a day of like them eating their food and this is like guys you want people who people have a love for the game and you when you haven't left for the game and you have a love for what you don't need to be on social social media posting every single movement you do every single day so that's that and the last thing I would say from a character perspective is you wanna I guess isn't so much a character an all-encompassing character perspective it's something I want to tell you that to do which is I asked very uncomfortable questions I asked very very uncomfortable questions because you want to ask those uncomfortable questions on the front end I asked my performance marker you don't like for example like you know just brought on a creative manager just brought on a new assistant just brought on a new performance marker bring on some new appointments that was it I've been hiring a lot recent for example the corpse marker I asked up front okay I don't care see that what why don't you just build your own agency are too scared to ask that question but you should be asking that question up front and for example in our case with Louise the reason the answer we got is like you know III love doing the thing like I have a love for the sport of performance marketing but when I was selling I just I don't really like it like I don't enjoy selling like I would rather be a part of a team and have an ability to rather than you know banging my head against the wall trying to sell and get some small clients like I'd rather get some big clients and join a team and and play with the big dogs so that's just on my part just from a character and vetting questions is my advice to you I'm gonna pass it over to Danny and Danny maybe if you can touch on what you first of all what you asked in the 45 interviews for more technical perspective and then also what challenge did you set for them you know those last seven contenders in what was looking behind it sure thing I'll go back a little and just tell you guys a little bit on why I canceled some of the applications I'm sure maybe some of the guys that are looking at this interview right now applied and I cancelled nothing personal we got tons of applicants and we got very very good very very good applicants so we had to pick and choose map I actually think I took too many calls 45 is probably overkill for what you're looking for and you can you can find good people there's a lot of good people out there so on that one I cancel all the calls that weren't that haven't spent like at least 20 30 40 K I cancel all of the calls that only spend on only spend on local businesses because that's not what we're looking for and we want someone that at least has the understanding of a funnel of like how the industry works on how store works Shopify works at anything so I counted also and I also cancel the ones that didn't put enough effort it's we are giving away a very very good opportunity we have some kickass and some kickass company cultures and kick-ass we have the philanthropy how about tons of things and if someone doesn't seem enthusiastic about it I probably don't wanna I wanna spend my time with them all on unenthusiastic applications I also cancelled so one liners on the questions that clearly I mean you can write two lines that's remember you can write three lines and all most of the applicants that I took on put their effort in and you can see also on those applications if they have an ego straight away so the guys that spend like millions of dollars they will just put 1 million or 1 million plus and on the application they will just put like two words I took some of them just because I was curious to to see if they if like how did they spend the money and if they were interested most of them were very interested but but if they already have an ego in in place there is probably not much things that I can teach them and then they probably will bring some practices different which is great I'm looking for someone that that has a different point of view and doesn't see eye to eye to me but a lot other of the guys would probably not not not even here so that's who does the applications that I cancelled now on the call itself I have here some depression so if I look a little bit to the side that's why but first one is hey how you doing oh it just wanna know if they are great maybe they had a bad day so maybe I'll take that into consideration on their like energy and everything you also are looking for someone that I mean it's their interview they want to be a little bit up a bit I was dead serious in those interviews so most of the guy maybe if you are seeing this and I worked at serious I'm not really like that but I just put like a little bit of hard for and also because I was having like back-to-back meetings bhaktavar interviews and it's very very draining one important one where are you based basically just to know a little bit of like the cost of their live in the time zone specially so we have climbed small time zone so we probably preferred someone that can be on our meetings without any problems and also that can be on our clients meetings or or can respond maybe also on downtime of us to given it to give an example anyone who lives in the notes it's a hub and there's one other thing that I forgot to mention there by the way on my character list I I probably should say this for future interviews because people will know now but I I asked a dummy question I asked a question how many times did you travel in 2019 and people see that and I can tell that they want to make it look like they traveled a lot and I I can tell that they think that I want them to say that they're well traveled I want them to say zero I don't want to performance marketer who wants to be a digital nomad I don't want an assistant philosophy I mean I guess through my assistant you know it's different for like the physical rules you know the creative manager that are there system that just like those are like location dependent roles but like with the performance marker role like I don't want you to island hop between Asia that's like but that's not what I want so if there was funny to see those to get that dummy question asked but Danny sorry to interrupt you but um for example someone in Bali that would have been a no-go you living in Colombia Kiran and I I'm living it or at least the people were actually to be present for the agency calls you living in Colombia Kiran and I living in London and then someone living in bought no way already it's I mean you know I guess we can talk I could talk for hours and hours about company culture but then he wakes up at 5:45 a. m. for our team call like no pain no gain no pain no gain you know and look you know I guess that badly weighs into a much larger video about company culture and how I have people my team who work harder than most CEOs because once again it comes down to a common mission and purpose and a love of the game they are just a little caveat they're deaf just logistically there's certain logistics like if someone lived in Paulie that would be another yeah yeah I'm a little on that what character help them work hard that's prob that you want serially on the first interviews because commitment that's on you that's on us let's say we have to sell that to them they need to trust us believe in us and believe like in the entire mission higher purpose so they work as hard but someone someone can't have that potential probably everyone has the potential of like working working as hard as they can not only if they believe in what they're doing and that'sthat's more on us so that's probably something you can't really see on the first meeting button again there's probably people that people don't care about anything probably but if they went to this to the extent of twinny application everything they they probably will be willing to do the work so I gave them two situations after that those two situations were what would you do in this case the first case was we will be back in stock pretty soon with cutsie most you guys know so how would you launch how would you do the ad what would you do what you wouldn't so that's very very important just so I catch what kind of strategy they're following up up until now see if there it doesn't really matter what they respond but I at least want to know they they have a very good understanding of like campaign structures and what really matters in in inside the ads manager second second question was about a curse or I kept him like a client that we were going to work with and just like what would you do on what you wouldn't how many campaigns how many ads how many ad sets everything they would do and I also wanted to see their thought process on this work so for example forgot see the question I was a answer I was looking for was oh I'll start with all humans for ubers so so they have like that whistles resourcefulness and under thought process that I like is like first let's go near and then let's go back because I would also love I would also love and a couple guys actually responded this way they said I wouldn't go cold like clothing it's very difficult on cold and you probably shouldn't use you just go with with whoever you are and probably big big brands or not are not really doing not really selling on cold some some piece of clothing that can also be a cleanser it's more about the thinking behind it it's as Danny said it doesn't need to be the right answer but you can't give an answer for answers sake we want to see your thinking behind how do you come to that conclusion yeah even if it's a wrong answer anything even if I to some guy said like there's no right answer if they were like very worried scene what kind of response I had so it made me if I rose my April eyebrows or something i I just wanted to let them be comfortable and just speak their minds because I'm looking for someone that thinks outside the box and that I think the other one I asked is how important do you think if you role your role on the ads performance with this one I just wanted to know like if they knew if they knew how how really artwork and did four also follow-ups on the next question is like how important do you think the creative lives so part of the biggest lessons that anyone can have with ads is the idea itself it's very very important and I just wanted to know if they knew this if they didn't it it's fine next question is if a campaign is going wrong how do you tell your client and what do you tell them very very important if something's going wrong they need to know how to communicate with the client make them make them feel good and let them know there we are working to to make it work just shows if they know how to communicate so that's that was also very very important one so some of some of the answers I also got was know I would tell them like their product doesn't work and I would like well that's probably a bit rough right like maybe it's true but you shouldn't you should never see that and we probably would have never signed that thing and we don't have like that problem but but if something is going wrong you have to you have to be you have to be also proactive you have to with with the knowledge you have to help the solution in it so everyone that I'm sure with with like I would have already seen what's wrong I would have already come up with a with a solution that that's the kind of answer was waiting for this one this one was proposed by by Eamon which I really really like is like what where do you see yourself in a couple years time so it's kinda the re entrepreneurial question is this guys a little so a lot of them would say oh I want to have my own Shopify store or some of some of them could say I want to have my own agency and that's fine and I I actually would say for them the best answer is not to get hired by us but because we'll probably just slow them down and that thing they want to do if they want to open their agency wide on the why don't they open it now I'm just learning from us instead of instead of working with us and then enough interagency they can't just learn from us right so good answer is like being a kick-ass performance marketer how to spend millions that'sthat's probably the very run-through hmm finally it's the more logistical one it's what are you doing what's your current situation all the logistics or how many clients do you have are you contractor for how many how many agencies what's like your situation like and I'm not that's just for us to know like where they are where they are at and if it's worth for them like to drop what they what they have currently to come work with us onion that's pretty much it at the end of the meeting I give them the chance to ask me about the company about about anything they really wanted to know about the role and then I would just let them know that we will we have like tons of questions tons of applicants in terms of interviews to go through and after that I will either get back to them if they are on on the shortlist of seven or just or just not so yeah that's that's the first interview it's amazing so after that you kind of made a shortlist and brought it down to seven and you actually sent it there's no other into you it's just a email you sent them an email I don't know how much we can disclose or how much we can talk about but can you talk about like what search challenges you gave them we use current clients that we have but I use the more public ones the ones we talked about that you chose that you shown your YouTube channels okay so maybe don't talk about maybe don't talk about the clients but sort of what snarl you wanted them to do yeah so I give them a couple kinda weird clients and can I wear these they were niches that are not super known and that was just and just to draft up a campaign for the first one was to draft up a campaign and for the second one was to pick and choose interests he can choose interest and give me like a rough audience and what they were too inside like on the outside level so that was that was with the purpose one both clients ran very profitable on cold so I just wanted to see if any of them chose out of gut feeling the audiences have already seen working so couple guys actually did that I was very impressed and Louis actually did so that was very good Lewis our new team member and the third one was to write compliant copy so we gave them like a very very Wilson area which is writing copy for Forex for Forex or all for Eamon so so they are there as probably all experience if you have done any out you get shut down a lot unless you already have a pretty good idea of what keeps you shut down what can a key words three heard the UH Tribune process you you will get shut down and I just wanted to know like if they knew how to write compliant copy and how to fix copy that is on compliant and also landing pages that's a lot of that's a lot of the job that you have to do daily so all these tasks is is insured what they would be doing full-time so I just wanted to see how they would do it once again there's no right answer on this one because I'm probably going to teach most of what they're going to do for example for Louis we have this today consult in on Monday and Tuesday and I basically laid out everything I know about that to to this guy and to scale this is very good store and I think we probably could have picked up if he picked up everything I said on that call he's probably ready to go now and it only took me two days and we actually got paid for it so it was very very good and also Luis obviously chipped in with everything he knew because we had very very good ads and under under his belt but by the way what Dan is okay it did kind of come at the perfect time because obviously last and whether it's our guys I've been a little distracted edge wanted some clients on slack but uh I did kind of cover the perfect time because last Wednesday we you know made the job offer and brought him on and last Friday we had the sales call with a client basically we had a sales call with a client and he's spending it's seven eighty thousand a month on ad eighty thousand okay eighty ninety thousand a month on ads at the moment and so you know but he give you a to give you like a little rundown it's a he's not too sure about the longevity of the product he's working on he has other products as well he wasn't too sure that he like he really wanted to learn from us but he didn't want to buy him like he enjoys wearing that ads himself didn't want us to on a monthly basis for this specific product because he doesn't know the longevity of it but he wants us to work on his product later down the line with more established brands I guess you could say but yeah anyways long story short I tried push him to the retainer but he became super clear that you know he'd just want a deep well actually I probably should this this is the Denny's advice you can see was like no no no trust me just saw him on the six hours of training that Danny did you know Danny did four hours I didn't when our and Karen did an hour but I know it's um worked out perfectly because movie started on Monday first day on the job and then he got to sit in on six hours of calls of us actually coaching a client who's doing nine thousand a month in Advent at the moment so you know God see it you know the me degree so after I got the responses from the shortlist it became pretty evident who were the better ones on those so we interview together I don't know if you want to take over from here actually something I did forget to mention is that on these tasks something I really was looking for just because of the nature or agency we have to understand businesses and we have to become experts on those very very fast and we had with non prior experience so so you have do you have to have the ability of pick up like water businesses and what they sell and who do they sell to especially who do they sell to like the biggest one very very fast for for instance for under lose that I know you sure him on on new YouTube channel I can speak about that it's a very very weak plant and a lot of people would think like people want to learn Arabic because they want to travel to another country or because they want to speak lots of languages so if they already speak like two or three they want to speak the fourth but in reality is more like a religious kind of thing and then about the Quran and all that kind of thing so so it's you have to pick up like very very different companies and you have to pick them up fast so you so you can start selling for them if it was like real estate probably every real estate is is kind of the same maybe even the region story but but for us that something I was looking for on on those things that I asked them to send me yes I mean that's one thing I will say is like we when we're looking for performance marker we're looking for not only a performance marketer we need someone who will not be writing them it will not do the copywriting but also needs to understand copywriting needs to understand the socio-economic landscape and needs to understand these different industries in these different markets in the the terminology and the thinking in those different markets and not only that they need to like they need to know or Danny and I will train them on automation on like looking at every single point in the funnel understanding the business model itself like you know it's funny even when Kieran came in as a product manager for gradients he liked I mean Karen as a product manager for the largest education Tommy on earth for agency owners specifically Karen didn't know what a webinar was like 20 months ago you know he had to learn that so you know that stuff that we can teach internally as an organisation to our performance marketer but it would be very very very different kind of debt that Danny said if we were running ads for real estate we are running ads for the most difficult not not even by a little bit by a mile the most difficult industry on earth in for product and info products is by far the most difficult industry to run hands for and as I said it's we run ads we've run ads for education companies and look you know obviously we still have ecommerce clients that makes up like 20 or 30 percent of our or roster but 70% our info product clients and you know they're we run it for our clients for you know companies that teach people how to speak Arabic for companies to teach holistic health for companies with teach ecommerce for companies that teach Kindle publishing for companies to teach trading for companies to teach how design of a website Flickr for companies to teach hiring like we've had some weird clients some really weird glance in really weird wacky Nisha's and once again perform marketer needs to be able to pick that up something on this guy see someone that will get the job done no matter what a lot of them would ask me like well is there like how do you know if I'm working eight hours or how do I have to do I have to work some hours or how does it work with us is more like a long a you're doing what you are supposed to do we don't we don't even care where you do it if you do it from your kitchen from your bathroom or from your studio it doesn't really matter to us and it does matter when you do it if you do it at 2:00 a.
m. or you do it 5:00 p. m.
