Kingpin Returns in Daredevil: Born Again!

[Music] today on the official Marvel podcast we're celebrating the release of Marvel television's Daredevil born again with executive producer Sonna amanat the thing to remember is that it's been 10 years since that first show came out people have grown up things have happened and so what we were excited about is like how do you tell that story plus we've got a deep dive into the com IC book history of Wilson Fisk AKA The Kingpin and you'll want to stick around after that to hear from The Man Behind The Kingpin himself Vincent denafo I'm Victoria Ying

I'm shade Spence and this is the official Marvel podcast [Music] if you're anything like us you're probably still reeling from Marvel television's Daredevil born again's incredible two episode premiere and while we're insanely excited to get into it all we're giving everyone a chance to catch up before we start answering your burning questions about the show so starting next week we'll be breaking down the first two episodes of Daredevil born again with the cast and crew of the show so if you haven't already be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss out speaking

of the cast and crew we have a few joining us today and kick things off I got to chat with executive producer Sona I'm on it hi SAA so glad to have you so will you tell us a little bit about your career with Marvel and Marvel Studios yeah obviously always great to be on the official Marvel podcast I've been at this company now for 15 years and I started as a comic book editor many many eons ago at this point and had some really great experiences with artists and collaborators and writers that I I

I loved and then my career started shifting into development and animation and then eventually I got to the studio and started working on liveaction content where I am today and now I'm a executive of production development of Marvel Studios otherwise known as just a Marvel producer that's amazing it's so cool that you've touched so many different aspects of the Marvel Universe and the different mediums can you tell us a little bit what the development process for the show was like it's always been a bit of an adventure we've had so many different challenges obviously between

the pandemic and then we had the writer strike and all of that and so the development on this show was really interesting because we're really excited about bringing Daredevil you know properly into the MCU you had him in Spider-Man and initially the story was going to lean heavily more into sort of lawyer Matt Murdoch and then of course Fisk is is there you're going to see a different version of Fisk in New York that was always the premise of like lawyer Matt Murdoch you know Fisk in this sort of new position in New York and

so as we started digging into the creative for really realizing like a lot of the stuff that the original iteration of the show did really well we want wanted to pull a lot of a lot more of that into our show and that's really what we started digging into is like how do we make sure we are continuing to tell that story obviously we're going to tell it through a different lens we're going to tell it from a different perspective with different creators to an extent but Charlie Cox and Vincent denafo they will are those

characters and what people are going to be excited about is is the two of them together and so we kind of reframe the story to be able to tell it from that perspective these two like formidable opponents who are in a weird way so similar they're in a very different phase in their lives they're both trying to overcome different aspects of their alter egos they're both probably in denial but they've put away their masks quote unquote both of them at the start of this and so we thought that was a great way in and that's

really what we started doing and um brought in dariio gapi our showrunner and Justin Benson and Aaron Morehead who've done Loki for us and moonnight for us and so just again that combination of creators really understood the importance of the old show and loved it as much as I loved it and we wanted to create an extension of that but still have our own take on it the thing to remember is that it's been 10 years since that first show came out people have grown up things have happened and so what we were excited about

is like how do you tell that story like how do you tell the story of 10 years later since you know Charlie put on that suit since Matt Murdoch put on that suit for the first time who are these people now I think that story was really interesting to tell considering all of the baggage and all of the very serious events that have happened before what we've seen previously of Daredevil is high stakes action sequences mixed with scenes that reflect on morality motivation and Justice what is the tone being set Daredevil born again you know

I think it's it's still that very much so I think we have that combination I think we might be doing it a bit differently than the old show mainly because you have different directors and different filmmakers and all of that but 100% I think that was what made the show so special is that you had these really impactful emotional scenes yes like about morality about the concept of you know flawed violent characters that is an important component of our show and you know what's interesting about this iteration is we are talking a bit more about

violence and the power it has over these individuals right and like hating that power and yet succumbing to that power and that is really sort of I think the way in for us like we're going to have moments of course of intense violence and intense action sequences of course but there is those dramatic moments of Matt restraining him himself from it right because a line was crossed as they say and what does that mean for Who Matt Murdoch wants to be now I think that's really important what does that mean for fist in this new

position when he's returned to New York more powerful than ever in a lot of ways he has to also be different they're both trying to be different individuals but also as they're living their dayto day lives and they they're attempting to be these different people that is where a lot of the emotion tend and drama is going to live so I I'm I'm really I'm happy with the balance we found so it was a really awesome experience and and I feel like I'm really happy with the Way season one turned out can you talk a

little bit about the return of this cast and what was it like seeing them reunite on set yeah it was so awesome we were able to bring back Deborah Anne wall and Elden Henson to play Karen Paige and and foggy Nelson and of course John barenthal to play Frank Castle it was awesome to see them all together in different ways cuz for me I was a part part of sort of you know the old show in some capacity because they were all my colleagues making it so I'm very entrenched in the classic show in many

many ways but still I was a fan right ultimately I'm always going to be a fan of the characters but especially the show so for me just as a fan just sitting back and seeing them engage and talk to one another was really sweet were there any particular Comics that you reference as part of the creation of these characters or plot lines yeah I mean of course like chip sadarski and Charles Soul's run on the mayor Fisk runs that they've had like respectively was a big part of it they had some really cool characters and

that chip introduced and also the mayor Fisk run that Charles Soul did was definitely the starting point for us we will always forever be inspired by Edward Baker and Brian bis's various runs on the character in terms of tone Frank Miller of course is always going to be the foundation of every Daredevil uh story that we write we're not doing an adaptation of born again again by any means at the same time though I will say there's a lot of thematic similarities to what is being said in Born Again In terms of Matt Murdoch being

Stripped Away and being forced to kind of find himself and of course the overarching power of Wilson Fisk there's a lot in there that I feel like from a theme standpoint still works but we've kind of looked everywhere there's like little bits of Mark Wade's run with chrisom so again I worked on the comics I'm a big Daredevil head so we try to pull from different people as much as possible we are definitely keeping more of that darker grittier tone that Bendis and Brew Baker did and Frank Miller did though how do you stay faithful

to the source material while keeping it interesting for a television medium you know I think you can answer this question for any of our characters frankly because we all know very well that like the source material the comics that's our Holy Grail always I mean obviously as a comic former comic book editor it will always be my holy girl because it starts there and we have such a strong understanding of our characters but we manipulate them on the page right you have Frank Miller's version of Daredevil and then you have Mark Wade's version of Daredevil

and I think that range is so intriguing to me because our characters are constantly evolving but we know at the end of it it's what these characters who they are and what they represent what they stand for and Matt Murdoch being someone who is a contradiction who is someone who looks for Justice in any capacity and whether that means he's going to be wearing his lawyer suit or whether that means he's going to be putting on his Daredevil suit he is going to be fighting for justice he'll do it through the court system and if

he can't get it through the courts he's going to put on that suit and he's going to use his baton and fists right which in itself is maybe problematic but I think that's what makes him such a captivating characters because his belief system is very rigid his belief is I am going to to find Justice and I'm going to protect my city and so understanding that at the core of it I think makes it still true to both forms and also understanding that people believe that in our everyday lives we want to be able to

find Justice and we want to fight for it in any means possible and the same thing with Fisk I think what's so intriguing about him and what I find him to be the best villain possible is that his background as someone who has a very tragic story with his father and his mother it does ground him in a different way and it does showcase that he has something to prove that he will be he will sort of you know every single time you replay it he's constantly beating his father to prove that he is the

most powerful and he will not be taken down and I think that posos makes him one of the most intriguing villains and also makes them Unstoppable because in some weird ways you kind of root for him to win even though he's a terrible person and ultimately but there is there is that relatability so again I think what is the internal Compass of these characters like what the what is a Nord star which we use a lot we reference that terminology a lot but what is a Nord star for both of these characters and how do

you stay true to that I think that's how you don't worry too much about warping them in an adaptation if you know what that is this is another tvma rating for Marvel television following Marvel television Echo how will you be pushing the boundaries in this series well there's some crazy events that happened towards the end of the season I think you know the action is what the action is like we wanted to show the brutality of both of these characters and you will see that we didn't want to glorify the Violence by any means like

again these characters are pushed to the edge and they react the way that they do and it also show cases about what happens when a city doesn't necessarily have I guess the darkness that exists when darkness takes over and darker forces take over and So within that we we needed to Showcase what that looked like and so you'll see another Villain Like Muse who enters the story there may be some difficult scenes to watch but it is intentionally to say we shouldn't be happy when we see people breaking each other's bones it's a dark dark

thing and ultimately it's why you want to be able to a hero but again we have a much darker tone than any other project I have worked on but certainly any other project that we've done at Marvel and I think we really want to lean into that you previously were an exec on Miss Marvel how is that experience different than working on Daredevil oh my God it's like it is pretty night and day working on Miss Marvel from from Miss Marvel to Daredevil I will say I mean aside from the fact that everyone is older

everyone's older not dealing with teenagers tonally you know and it was it's actually pretty awesome for me because that was also when I was working in the comics it was so fun to work on something like a Miss Marvel or even like the cap Bishop Hawkeye or like even the David aha like that AA that Hawkeye run with Matt fraction and David H was like also super fun and different and then I went got to work on Daredevil and it was like a much darker tone and I loved that too like that's kind of what

I enjoy doing but it's different we're talking about like slushy and high school dances and like honestly cartoon animation and Miss Marvel and here we're talking about breaking people's bones and just the darker psyche of these really problematic fad characters who you know are so cool and so tough and so badass and but it's just it's it's really n day but it's super fun and I've enjoyed both of these experiences immensely it's been great do you have anything to say directly to the fans yeah I mean I think I'm so excited for the show to

come out I'm so nervous I I want people to know and people know hopefully some people know me by now I've been here for so long but I love what I do I love Marvel I love our characters and I freaking love these characters I love Daredevil I love Wilson Fisk and I think we put our heart and soul and we had our challenges of course we had our creative challenges and we really made I think the best of what those challenges were and frankly I think it made the show better and so we put

our passion our heart our soul into the show and really just hope people see that and understand that you know we come to this as fans fans first and then creators and producers and I just hope that they join us for this ride and trust us and trust that we're going to make something really special because it matters to us and you know and I have a lot of friends who' worked on the old show and and I want to do right by them as well well SAA thank you so much for coming on to

the official Marvel podcast we loved having you and we loved hearing about Daredevil born again thank you again for taking the time thank you so much I had a blast while the Kingpin returns to television in Daredevil born again his current whereabouts in the Marvel Comics universe is a little unclear I mean I'd probably go into hiding too if I'd been removed from office as the mayor of New York City nearly killed by Daredevil arrested for my crimes and caught up in a Citywide gang war that completely reshaped the underground criminal scene just saying shade

day we're getting a little ahead of ourselves maybe we should start at the beginning for those who aren't familiar with Wilson Fisk okay good call Victoria let's do it so let's dig into the history of Mr Wilson Fisk AKA The Kingpin okay but I don't really know what we're going to talk about I mean what's there to say about a fine upstanding citizen and legitimate businessman nothing sketchy going on there oh not at all except that he's probably one of the most corrupt and dangerous figures in the Marvel Universe and while a lot of our

character profiles begin with stuff like Wilson Fisk wasn't always a criminal mastermind that is not the case here nope in fact he committed his first murder at the age of 12 and by 15 he'd put together a successful enough gang of criminals to First earn the nickname the kingp pin of crime that man was barely 20 when he got his first official mob job and that was as a bodyguard for New York City Maia boss Don Rigoletto and it's easy to see why someone would want Fisk as a bodyguard the dude is massive 6' 7450

lb and the bulk of that bulk is muscle thanks to years of working out martial arts lessons and Sumo training right so here we are king-sized up-and-comer Wilson Fisk becomes a personal bodyguard a position that grants him very close access to his boss so what does he do he kills Rigoletto and takes over his organization and what can we say Fisk is a natural at the job he runs an incredibly successful criminal Enterprise laundering all the Dirty Money brought through legitimate businesses which then also become successful and just like that Wilson Fisk is now a

well-respected figure in New York High Society that's when he meets Vanessa The Elegant raven-haired Beauty who steals his enormous beef steak of a heart fisk's love for Vanessa may be the only thing that overshadows his lust for power so the couple quickly marry and they have a son Richard whom they promptly ship off to boarding school because you know High societ fast forward and Fisk is now the most powerful crime Lord not just in New York but possibly the world but of course high-profile crime means high-profile foes fisk's operations are constantly hindered by Spider-Man Daredevil

or another of New York City's hero types not to mention he also has some competition in his now adult son Richard Richard going by the rose starts his own crime ring and seems obsessed without kingpinning the Kingpin classic daddy issues right years of this have taken their toll on Vanessa though she's tired of the criminal life she's had enough and the feud with their own son is the final straw so she gives Kingpin an ultimatum leave his life of crime behind or lose her forever if Kingpin leaves the business though his Rivals would swoop in

and take command of what used to be his and that's something FIS couldn't bear to see so Vanessa suggests that he turn over all evidence he has against the other crime bosses to the authorities it's a solid plan unfortunately word gets out to those other crime Lords Vanessa is kidnapped and during fisk's attempt to rescue her she is seemingly killed in an explosion as Revenge Fisk follows through with Vanessa's plan and turns over everything he has on the other Mobsters virtually eliminating all his comp crors in one Fell Swoop fisk's organization is now more powerful

than ever but he always wants more he craves real political power so he puts his money behind a puppet candidate named Randolph Cherry in the New York City mayor's race Daredevil finds out that cherry is secretly on fisk's payroll but he's too late Cherry wins the election he also finds out that Vanessa is alive with no memory of who she is Daredevil promises to return Vanessa to Fisk but only if cherry turns down his mayoral win which he does and while Fisk is elated to have his wife back in recovering he's angrier than ever at

Daredevil so he hires The Deadly Assassin Electra to kill the pesky hero but when Electra realizes that behind the mask Daredevil is actually her old boyfriend Matt beroch she refuses to go through with it she's a better woman than than I so Fisk tries again sending the even deadlier assassin Bullseye to take out Daredevil but Bullseye only ends up killing Electra so Fisk tries yet again with Ekko a deaf super acrobat and martial artist F gets Ekko fired up for Revenge by telling her that Daredevil killed her father but Ekko finds out it was actually

Fisk who murdered her dad and she turns on him temporarily blinding him in her attack things are not going to go great for Kingpin at this point but don't worry they're about to get worse remember fisk's son Richard the rose well he takes advantage of his father's weakened State and organizes an assassination attempt Kingpin survives the Ambush but just barely after a lengthy recovery Wilson Fisk returns to New York thirsty for payback but before he can fully retake control of his Empire he is beaten Once More by Daredevil and subsequently sent to prison luckily and

I'll put that in quotes Daredevil's Alter Ego lawyer Matt Murdoch has been framed for murder at this time Vanessa who is dying of a terminal illness proves Murdoch's innocence in exchange for Murdoch taking on her husband's case and getting him out of prison Murdoch is a True Ace Attorney and soon enough Wilson Fisk is a free man once more though he is released too late to see his wife one last time Vanessa is already dead by the time he reaches her so tragic love story over it's back to bad guy business no more puppet candidate

nonsense Fisk runs for mayor himself and guess what he wins and only with a little bit of voter [Music] fraud as mayor of New York fisk's main goal is to rid the city of masked Heroes he passes a slew of anti-vigilante laws making it illegal for people like Spidey or Daredevil to operate in New York meanwhile he continues to collude with all the city's criminal gangs so they can do their Dirty deeds unimpeded and in a final demonstration of how totally over Vanessa he really is Fisk marries his favorite bodyguard assassin a mutant named Typhoid

Mary he somehow manages to make it through one whole mayoral term without getting impeached but when it's time to run for reelection Daredevil and Friends catch him in the act of trying to use a mass mind control device to compel New Yorkers to vote for him the Kingpin is dethroned and arrested he escapes of course he and Typhoid Mary seek asylum in the mutant island nation of ccoa which is populated mostly by X-Men as a mutant Mary has automatic citizenship in ccoa and as her husband Fisk must legally be allowed to stay whether the X-Men

like it or not I'm guessing not but as it turns out when the anti-mutant group orus invades kcoa Fisk becomes a valuable Ally to the citizens of ccoa helping many of the X-Men Escape certain death does this mean Kingpin has turned over a new Leaf absolutely not he's gone right back to his criminal ways since then first murder at 12 remember what's next for Wilson Fisk though how much bigger can you get after being mayor of the biggest city in the country well folks he's contemplating a run [Music] president Daredevil was created way back in

1964 within the pages of Daredevil number one the hero was co-created by Stan Lee and artist Bill Everett and while Kingpin is often seen as Daredevil's arch nemesis did you know his first appearance wasn't actually in an issue of Daredevil he first showed up in an issue of Amazing Spider-Man in fact Kingpin wouldn't actually appear in an issue of Daredevil until Daredevil number 107 in 1981 almost 20 years after Daredevil's debut it's wild to think that Kingpin wasn't on Daredevil's radar for that long well Spider-Man was keeping him pretty busy since then Kingpin has appeared

in countless Comics film and even TV shows as The Man Without fear's fiercest rival and now that Marvel television's Daredevil born again is in full swing we thought it'd be fun to revisit one of our conversations with the Kingpin himself Vincent denafo we caught up with Vincent at New York ComicCon a few months ago where he shared his excitement about returning to the role and how he gets into character let's listen well I have little things that I do yeah I there's certain events in my life that I like to bring up before certain scenes

not all scenes but certain scenes there's there's I still look at the art of kingpin's um there's a couple of particular artists who I I love the way that they drew him and painted him and and it gets gets me in the right mood it's amazing how the art can help one particular piece of art that helps Vincent denafo is the cover of Daredevil number 117 by Marco jvic it's from 2009 a comic book he received as a gift from his Daredevil co-star Charlie Cox f is in a long coat and we're facing each other

that portrait has an incredible vibe to it they look like freaks lonely Freaks and a a bit broken and that helps a lot things like that help a lot it's funny to play a king like it's a different type of role than than any other part when you're really playing like um a king that nobody says no to that everybody you know is nervous about what their next move is going to be you know like it's it's it's different than playing other parts because particular things happen after a while where you you start as if

you were really a king you start to take for granted the way scenes are put together the way other actors are acting around you you know the way you're reacting to other actors It all becomes very kind of natural in a way like three episodes into a season and um that whole thing about walking into room and being the center of attention as the king it's kind of fun you know and you get you get used to it in a in such a strange way where you so so it helps me you know that whole

thing helps you play the character I really like it you can catch Vincent andao as Kingpin in Daredevil Born Again streaming now only on Disney Plus [Music] while we've talked about the first appearances of Daredevil and Kingpin in Marvel Comics today we're celebrating another comic book Milestone one that actually came before both of them on March 5th 1963 Janet vany AKA The Wasp made her debut in Tales to astonish number 44 Janet vany started as a socialite and fashion icon but quickly became a hero in her own right after an alien tragically murdered her father

she turned to Hank Pim for help a scientist who her father trusted prior to his death at first Hank who was secretly Ant-Man dismissed her claims as a prank but when his insect allies confirmed Janet's story he decided to investigate impressed with Janet's strength and determination Hank revealed his secret identity to her and offered to make make her his partner Janet accepted and with the help of Pimp's shrinking formula and implanted synthetic cells that gave her wings she became the WASP fighting alongside Ant-Man and ultimately avenging her father since then Janet vany has been a

founding member of the Avengers and a part of teams like the Defenders West Coast Avengers agents of wakanda and more Beyond her superhero career she's also been president of vany Industries Board member of Neville Industries a mother an adventurer a screenwriter a hardware store clerk and so much more and while her style has evolved Through The Years her dedication to helping others has never wavered girl boss [Music] next week on the official Marvel podcast we'll not only answer your biggest Daredevil Born Again questions but also hear from the cast of the show themselves until then

be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and be sure to leave us a review it really helps others find the Pod this episode was hosted by Victoria ying and myself shade Spence our producers are Jasmine Estrada and Anita Flores additional writing by Christopher Healey thanks to our senior manager of audio production and development Brad Barton and production manager Emily Godfrey mixed by Ry dorsy theme music by Ida oall executive producers are Lissa Rosen and Jesse Berger thanks so much for listening you guys see you next week [Music]