James Ehnes On What It Means To Be An Authentic Musician | TwoSet Talks | EP. 9

Incredible worldclass violinist James Andis I just completely crashed and burned hitting record just makes everything different we all believe the way we're doing it is the best way you hit record right now right oh we got to do this podcast [Music] button okay hello everyone welcome to another episode of two set talks today we have a very special guest I'm sure You all know him already incredible world class violinist James Andis hey guys good to see you um okay yeah James it's been a while since we lost myth actually um yeah when was that it

was like a couple years ago in Singapore and uh oh yeah but man you know I was thinking I've known you guys for a long time now like when we met in Sydney you guys were just I mean you were just kind of getting started that must yeah we were was that what was that like 10 Years ago yeah you still an orchestra Brett I remember oh it's still or yeah I think it was 2015 9 years ago wow no way that's that's crazy flies so that was a fun story I don't know if I

want to go into details of that it's actually quite juicy oh that that time yeah I don't know if you remember I don't know if we can talk about that but do you remember well I'm I'm now it's making me think that maybe it's more interesting than I remember I just Remember you know I show up in Sydney and it's like these nice guys come up and they're like hey would you like to grab a beer at the Opera bar and I was like of course I do yes and uh and we just hung out

and you guys were like yeah so you know we're thinking of getting into comedy and I was like oh um okay you know and I uh yeah I mean what do you what do you say right you just meet somebody it's like well that's that's Sounds even more difficult than getting into music but then I remember we were having such a good time and I was laughing a lot and I was like well yeah actually I am having a really good time maybe these guys should get into comedy uh but yeah and then we filmed

that little video in the practice room and uh yeah that was a long time ago though yeah like an age ago you know you guys ever feel like you know pre covid was basically like Another lifetime yeah oh sure yeah yeah yeah it adds it somehow adds like five years but also takes away three years too you know like certain things seem much more recent than they were and other things just feel so distant yeah it's like you know in Avengers how there's like before the blip and after the blip yeah it feels like that

yeah time it's like what just happened what just happened yeah I remember that was our first time hearing your live too With uh and you played that B I think yes it is yeah I might have was that the one you played yeah yeah might have he's done so many concerts yeah I I couldn't tell you let's let's say yes do you do you remember all your concerts how many concert you do a yeah so you know when I was the the guy who sort of raised me in the business this wonderful man um named

Walter hurger he was like the big empresario in Toronto and he ran the Toronto Symphony for many years and was just the most wonderful person and um you know he's he's been gone for a while now but I mean I still think of him like every day and uh when I was really just getting started he said you know what you want to do is in the front of your score write down the details of each time you play a piece and you know so I was like 16 or Something when he tells me this

I'm like I'm not going to forget this I mean these are the big moments of my life like I'm not going to forget playing the mendleson concerto such and such place such and such conductor and now people are like I heard play you know B and chero and such s I'm like okay like how was it they're like it was good I was like yeah that that was definitely me I don't know mean some things some things I remember Really clearly and others like I don't know you know they they uh usually if once people

I guess what it is if if people remember the details and they tell me the details of like the sort of the where and the when and the what then then I got to say I do remember them like then they're they're quite clear to me actually actually Eddie there were a few wrong notes when James played the that time yeah no that that must been somebody Elsey memory um but no had a memory had a memory not again was that the was that the time I fell off the stage yeah I think so yeah

um but yeah sometimes if I'm if I'm trying to like think in my mind um you know how many times have I played this piece and where or something then then yeah I won't I won't be able to remember the so clearly but yeah people bring up they're like oh I heard you do blah blah blah it's such and such a Time such and such a place I can Usually I can usually bring it you know what amazes me though is like some of these Sports people like I think like you know how when you're

playing there are things um it it's funny I tell this to you know sometimes if there's a student that plays something and they make a mistake that they're just you know really bothered by or something I think sometimes it's important to point out that it's like you know that's a good thing because you made that stupid Mistake that you were probably going to make once in your life and now you made it and now you'll never make it again you know but these little things that we learn from performing how like every time we play

a piece our memory um both physical and and mental prepares us better for the next time you know all those little things that that happen that you know like okay well if I if I do this that helps the phrase speak a little better or that you know is is a Way to ensure that that shift is going to be solid every time or clean passage work whatever whatever it is and and I was thinking about this and remembering uh something I saw of like it was some famous baseball pitcher um that they were interviewing

he'd been retired for years I think it was Pedro Martinez and like they he was talking through a game and it wasn't like some important game it was just some like regular game and they were like oh do you remember there There was this great at bat against like some you know whatever some hitter and he's like oh yeah I remember that because you know I I gave him the change up low and away and then on the next pitch I threw the inside fast ball and then I put him you know and it was

incredible and I thought that like that's impossible how could anyone remember that and then it's like well yeah we kind of do that as musicians right like if there's something and I'm Sure like when you guys are doing a show if there's something that works particularly well you remember it and it becomes part of who you are as a performer and conversely if something like kind of doesn't work out then you're like well guess I won't do that again right wait wait so hold up Brett do you hear that if you mess up the Mendon

Octor once you're not meant to do it again in your lifetime that's my that Seems to be the take away I'm he right now I just know yeah that's basically like like if you make a mistake once that's fine if you make a mistake twice that's on you buddy my that's on us no back to the practice room oh but yeah I think so right like even I mean like you said we're kind of half our concert is half playing but there's also half comedy and we definitely improvise a lot sometimes depending on our mood

and some jokes Land better some don't and then I can't really recall exactly which concerts I start saying certain lines but then yeah they're kind of like hey that one works and then we kind of keep it into future shows and things like and then there's definitely moments you just remember like you're like oh yep that happened you're like okay well it's I mean it it's just like the the beauty of live performing right how I mean we we're storytellers right And we we are communicating these these stories through music or through speech or whatever

it is and and when you're in that kind of live situation where you are reading that room and you're you're getting feedback even in that very ineffable kind of way um that's the most magical thing right where you can where you can go in a direction that is not necessarily not necessarily what you would have plan to do in that moment but You realize for the whole of what you're trying to accomplish that's the best way of getting there you know what I mean at that time and I just I love I love that and

and I think that um that you know that's the thing that was hardest when uh when live performances weren't happening for a while is you know who are you playing for like you you you might be playing in maybe if you're lucky enough to do any playing at all you're basically playing into a camera And a microphone and how can you how can you know how to tell that story like if you guys are if you tell a joke and if you tell it to 20 different people you're going to tell it a little bit

differently all 20 times right because you're going to get that feedback and you're going to know that audience you're going to know that person you're talking to and uh yeah and I love that and you know people I think that Sometimes at least in in music but I bet that this applies a lot to your entire show as well like people sometimes have I think a little bit of a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of improvisation in the moment that you know like as musicians you know it's such a good like sound bite to be

like oh well you know I want every performance to be different and I just want to make it up in the moment and have it feel alive and this And that but but you know okay so if you're telling a joke like you kind of have to know the punchline right you know you have to know how the story goes or else that it just doesn't land at all and so I think that yeah like when I'm playing a piece like people will say well do you know exactly what you're going to do when you

go out on the stage it's like well no I don't know exactly what I'm going to do but I know exactly what I'm trying to say and I and I'm Going to figure out in the moment how best to say it and um and of course that that gets really tricky in the difference between live performances and recorded music too because then you're like well am am I trying to you know there's this I think this psychological trap you can fall into of like well I want to create you know there some sort of a

permanent document that shows my ultimate feelings on the piece and this and that and I mean okay Yeah to a certain point yeah but you you also have to create a compelling story for right now for today you know and then how do people listen to it like can you imagine the whole idea of of like uh you know going back to a performance over and over and over and over and over like obviously you're going to do it differently for that circumstance than if someone is going to hear it once and I think that

that's it's a little bit of A danger with like con every concert you know is going to be filmed and recorded and like everyone's got their phones out and you know but sometimes in a concert the most important thing I think that a performer can do is like grab you like at a moment if the audience is ever slipping or if you need to make a very dramatic sort of punctuation you might do something in that second that applies only to that time and people are going to they're only going to process that as Sort

of something magical in the moment but if they go back to it they're going to be like well that was really random and weird like you know what I mean like why did he do that and it's like well you had to be there yeah yeah well does that then what if you have like a live concert but you know it's being recorded does that affect your kind of mentality or do you try to just treat it as another normal performance you know I I try to to treat it as yeah I mean it's Just

it's just a normal performance um sometimes yeah I mean sometimes I'm more successful in convincing myself of that than other times I mean one thing that's really really weird with um with live recordings is and particularly if it's in a big Hall is you might be speaking so well speaking playing but you know communicating to people that are very very far away and you're trying to basically enunciate and project a message to people that might be you know In row double X or something but the microphone is like hi I'm right here and I'm going

to capture every little piece of rosin on your bow and every little you know like sniff out of your nose you know so these that's a weird that's a weird thing sometimes where and honestly I think that I've been to sniff us out of time yeah I've been to concerts where I felt a little bit cheated because you can see all the mics are up and you're Like okay okay they're recording this one and I don't know if you guys have ever felt this way but I definitely have when I've been in the audience and

I see all the mics are up and I'm like okay you're playing for the microphones because everything is kind of like this you know and and it's like I mean I get it but you know it it's like the people that are there in the moment I always feel like my first responsibility is to them yeah and um yeah and it's just it's Just a different sort of thing but but I mean of course there's a certain extent to a certain extent that you you deal with that situation too and I'm sure you guys you

know if you've got say you've got some really enthusiastic person in the front row it's like it's it's probably kind of natural and easy to be like okay this show is for this person that is just like loving it right there but it's also for the people that are like there there there there there right And and how do you make that work for all of them and uh you know what's the expression get some from the back section yeah got to project all the way I mean I think I'll the cool thing about our

shows is like it's very Rowdy and the vibe is always good like people are cheering and laughing as I think people naturally usually feel very included um yeah but yeah that actually that's interesting cuz I speaking of recordings it reminds me during the um the years of No live performances uh you you did like the crazy project where you recorded for the E right that yeah yeah you know I what inspired you to do such a insane project you know I mean everybody everybody had their own reactions to everything that was going on and you

know some of that was fueled by your personality right like some people were were really in rough shape because they were very Social people and all of a sudden they were stuck and you know some people on the other hand were like oh this is awesome I don't have to talk to anybody you um I think that some musicians uh were you know really really missed performing other musicians were like oh this is great I can just you know not do this for a little while and kind of recharge batteries I mean in my case

I um I really missed it a lot I mean you know the first couple weeks I was like Well I guess I guess I don't have to practice today but but then you know I don't know I I just got into um wanting to keep myself sort of artistically engaged and um and you know I needed things to do it's like I I I'm a freelance musician and all of a sudden it was like all of my income was just like turned off and that's you know it's kind of scary when you got a young

family and like we we just built this house and it was like okay great now I Have no money to pay for it but uh so I'm I'm sort of having these thoughts about like how long can I actually go without working before we've got like a real problem and uh and I got this call from a friend of mine who runs the Dresden festival and he said hey we're going to do this this thing where you know the musicians that were going to perform at the festival um we're just going to ask you to

to record something at home you know if you can film Yourself record yourself doing something like we'll send you a bit of money and he's like do you think you could do that I'm like oh yeah of course I can do that that's no problem yeah definitely I I definitely know how to do that get off the phone and I'm like I have no idea how to do that so you know I I like one thing we all had in those days right was like time that was one thing we had lots of time and

and so I just started like Flagrantly taking advantage of my friends like calling them up and being like how do you do this how do you do that and you um and just experimenting stuff and so I figured out okay you know I know how I can I mean just with like I gave myself the tiniest little bit of budget because I wasn't making any money but I did buy some like decent microphones and an audio interface and you know so I was just recording into a cool program called Reaper on my MacBook And uh

and like filming myself with like my iPhone and my wife's iPhone and we had this old DSLR in the house and you know so I bought like the cheapest um mic stands and the cheapest camera stands and like this one like super wobbly like stage light off of Amazon like total budget of like 150 bucks or something and and then I just spent like you know kind of a week two weeks I don't know just experimenting trying to get it right and and you know i' I'd Record myself and send the file to like this

really good friend of mine who's who's what like kind of my main producer and um I'd be like it sounds really bad you know what do you think the matter with it is and he'd tell me something like really embarrassingly obvious and be like oh right yeah okay and but eventually I got to a point where I you know could I thought I was getting a pretty decent product and and so for this Dresden thing um I told them I was Going to do the Box G minor Sonata and uh and you know this was

like early pandemic days where I was like well I'm just going to turn on the mics turn on the camera like one camera and just bomb it out there and it's going to be great and um so so I tell my wife and and kids I'm like okay you guys got to go up into the attic and like be quiet because I do some filming and so first movement and I think it goes fine I play the fug and I'm like yeah it was okay And play the the Sicilian that's fine Presto and you know

that movement how it's like the the first half repeat second half repeat and um you I'm playing through and it's going well and and it starts getting in my head I'm like oh this is going to be great this is going to be easy and I'll just like I'll just send it off and I'll be done and they're going to like send me money and then I can like make my my mortgage payment and and I go you know a section Goes great repeat goes fine B section goes fine repeat and I'm like I can

see the Finish Line I'm like I can do it I'm almost there yeah I'm almost there I'm almost there I swear man the like two bars before the end like I just completely crashed and burned on this thing like I mean it wasn't like oh you know that note was a little out tune it was like no I mean just complete Fiasco and like the sort of thing like I've played that piece a lot and that would Never happen to me in a live performance and it was just like I I probably have that video

somewhere I should S I don't know how you're like you know how how you guys can like bleep out the expletives but man I went on a bit of a tiate at the end of that I was like I can't believe you know end of a 20-minute piece and it was just completely unusable so I was like all right you know what I just got to get my head on straight this is just like any Other performance I'll just do it again and so I set it up and I do it again and I'm like

there we go that was good and I go back and I'm like oh I didn't turn the mic on so I had the video uh and no audio and and meanwhile it's like you know my wife and kids been up in the attic like hiding up there I mean it was just ridiculous and they're like can we come down I'm like no you can't come down you know I'm starting to get a little Frustrated so then I do it a third time and I'm about halfway through the Fugue and we live along this River in

Florida and this like massive like racing cigarette boat just goes like bombing by in the middle of the Fe I'm like okay well I can't use that so basically it was on my fourth try that I got that video done uh but then yeah so I ended up uh when I did worst case scenario like when especially like Just you've done something so good like that and it just disappeared you just lose the whole thing well I check you hit record right now right oh we going to do this the red button yeah maybe I'll

just check yeah okay we're good yeah we're still going um yeah but it's it's uh you know on the other hand it's like it was frustrating but this was a time where it was like well I didn't have anything else to do and there's never you know Playing through a box Sonata is not the worst way to spend time you know it was yeah really not really not the worst way that I could be spending my time it's like some of my friends basically were just like hanging out in the ocean drinking every day I

was like well I could be doing that but but uh yeah the um the the when I started doing my sort of recordings like for real at home um because there's a lot of light in that room um you know I Want to be able to to control the light and and because of that experience with that boat going by and like ruining the whole thing I decided that really the only safe way to do it would be to do it like in the middle of the night so I was recording you know I'd like

set the set the alarm for midnight or 12:30 or something I try to go to bed a little early get a few hours of sleep get up and I had this whole checklist of things to do like I had to flip off the breaker That that had like the air conditioning on and you know make sure that the the refrigerator was unplugged you all all these things you could make little bits of noise and and uh and yeah then just like play Bach and eai all night and then go to bed and then do it

again the next day for the next piece it was it was a weird weird time and like sometimes and it's really it's really wonderful that there will still be people that come up to me and they're Like you know that was a really like a pretty dark time and it was pretty cool that you did that and I really enjoyed it and that's really meaningful because you know you send these things out into the world and you're like I have no idea if anyone's going to listen or watch any of this but U but sometimes

people will be like so are you are you going to do more of that I'm like absolutely not like you know I'm proud of having done it and I mean well I shouldn't say Absolutely not but it's like I hope not you know um it was it was nice in a way to do it in my house but it was like everything about it was way more complicated than doing it under any other circumstances but yeah yeah yeah wait so was it four times at the same night that you did it or did you kind

of come back to another day no no that was all that was all like right in a row and that was in the afternoon and yeah so that one Was yeah like I I told I told Kate and the kids I was like hey you guys just go upstairs for like 25 minutes and we'll be done two hours later you know my kids are like Dad it's hot and I can't breathe I'm like shut up go back up it's like I don't know why I didn't how much you're suffering I'm suffering more like that you

think I like this who's paying for your living shelter wow and so the you did all six sonatas and petitas and all six EZE was That like that is great in the span of two weeks or like two months was how what was that like um I think like I I would record one program in one night so um you know I coupled one of the box with one of these eyes and so on on that night I would I I yeah get everything set up and um I would play each piece as many times

as I felt I should and um and I think that I think That like I would do maybe I think if I remember correctly it's like I would do two nights in a row so like two programs and then take a few days off and then do two programs the the whole thing probably was spaced out over like maybe 10 12 days wow um okay that's C holy well it was one of those things like you know once once they were basically ready to go it was like well if I'm going to do this I

just kind of want to get it done you know um and in a way the part Of it that I mean I it's it's not you know it's not really right to say well the hardest part of it but the part that was the most frustrating to record was these little spoken intros you know just these simple spoken intros talking a little bit about the piece and you know those were the ones that I would just do over and over and over because I would just keep messing them up and you know but um but

it's because it's unfamiliar right it's like if I'm gonna play a a b Partita or something it's like well I I I know how to do that I do that a lot so um yeah yeah yeah it's weird looking back on a long time ago now you know that's like four years ago yeah almost half a decade yeah oh my God that's so weird yeah can you imagine I feel like I want to like clarify for those viewers that aren't necessarily vinous would you say B Andes are uh you know they're pretty Infamous for being

some of the hardest repertoire for Sol there's no ACC compliment right so you're naked you're by yourself you're playing technically the hardest thing musically also something difficult and then it's also like they're so different so you're switch gears between B and the E so that's just I don't know for us M Mortals right let's let's do it as well James was was like my equipment is cheap but I was like my my plane is expensive actually there's one expensive equipment which is your Vol right you Guys are going to totally get this with all the

recording that you do how you know people like I think you know you have an idea as you're growing up learning an instrument about you know the pieces that are hard and the pieces that are easy or easier and I I mean I am 100% sure you guys are going to agree with this that like when you have to record something everything's hard nothing is easy like you can be like Oh I'm just going to play a D major Scale and you're like oh it sounds terrible you know everything is hard it's only nothing is

easy and nothing there's like that level of difficulty kind of doesn't exist every everything is as hard as you're willing to put your standards you know the higher your standards are the harder everything gets oh God there's two stories that R says last night we were filming till midnight and Al the funniest thing Eddie had this part where he had to play Violet and just it's like poly rythmic but he has to make a beat as if he was beat box with his mouth like while playing something that's poly rythmic to his VI playing and

it's really hard and he picked it up in like 30 minutes which was crazy but the fact is you could do it it was incredible but when we saw switched on the camera he couldn't do it yeah every time I he record I mess up and then and we stop and he does it again with the camera's off first take He's okay and it's just like dude you can do it it's easy you're like it's all my head it's all in my head it's literally like that yeah as always the hitting record just makes everything

different actually I've got another one it's like when it's like I love how you said when the standard is really high like you set yourself the standard really high right yeah remember the Encore we did with fillery I was just thinking that yeah you just thinking That okay so funny story long story short I won't go too long I think basically we went to watch Hillary and Sydney was okay we watch Hillary play Hillary hard play and the day before Hillary was kind hey I've got an idea why did you jump on the stage and

do an on call with me and Eddie and I just kind of like chat ourselves like uh but what do we even play like dude there's three violins so we found this random really basic Gat for three viol divor Kat yeah it's like the only piece for three violence yeah it's the only and it's we looked at I was like it was so easy but for some reason Eddie and I spent like 10 hours on it and that day Eddie lost Eddie forgot how to do string Crossings I remember I was like why why my

string Crossing feels so weird and I forgot articulate I forgot everything and that's an example where our standards I don't know I started panicking everything oh we're Not starting to oh again Str cross is gone my brother's not right it doesn't sound good that's just another example no it's so it's so totally true and you know sometimes I mean that's one of the great joys of working with you know great collaborators is uh is you know that it it inspires you to Great Heights but it's also it exposes things that you just never would have

thought of right Yeah pretty funny oh God that's true actually it's like who you kind of surround yourself with their standards kind of it influences you and so oh yeah if you're with people that naturally have more relaxed standards you will subconsciously even without thinking about it you'll get more relaxed and say oh this is how things are done and if you're around people or if you're in an environment I mean one of the Earliest memories of like that for M me musically was going to like Youth Orchestra and suddenly you know you you go

to high school your local high school and barely anyone plays an instrument you know they probably just got shoved by the Ora teachers I play this one and they even really care right and then suddenly you go into like this youth Ora where everyone's everyone there practices skills everyone there knows the repertoire and it's just like oh wow Okay I need to like step up that kind of feel and they hear James's easi recordings and bar oh damn we uh we actually heard your um Encore the supressor right the last boo first another N9 years

actually that's when we met it's incredible you probably don't remember but it it was the most epic bark Uncle we've ever heard yeah than few wrong NS though but you know few wrong n yeah was questionable information you crashed in the last two Bars can you imagine that's crazy oh man have you had like any live I don't know like funny stories from live concerts either like really epic memorable ones or like bad crashes that haunt you to today made you stronger I think you know L luckily I don't I I don't think I I

don't think I can't remember any his things where it was like oh that was that was not good but you know it's like it's my job to play at a level Where the difference between my worst and my best is hopefully not too noticeable you know it's like I I have my standards of like you know of a concert where I'm like oh I feel really good about that concert or a concert where I'm like I just wish I'd done this a little differently here there or the other place but hopefully that's like that's my

stuff you know what I mean um like I think that um I think that that actually is that's Something that that people don't uh they don't necessarily think about when they think about like people embarking on a career in music is like you you've got to be pretty consistent like you know there are there are players that you know might play really beautifully on the right night but they don't have enough right nights you know and that that's that's always that's always really too bad like that's kind of a tragic thing when that when that

holds a Performer back um but I mean there are funny things that happen like I mean there's so many there are funny things that happen all the time and that's that's one of the more enjoyable things about the process is like these funny stories that you know sometimes you'll see it right like you'll see performers on stage you can tell like they're laughing about something so I was playing I was playing corn gold concerto um in Toronto a few years back and um Was with Donald rles who's one of my like best friends in the

business um wonderful conductor I think he's principal guest of uh Sydney Symphony now um any we were in Toronto we were doing corn gold conero and the program it was the closing concert of the season so it was corn gold conero to start and Carmin barana for the rest of the program and you know Carmin barana like it's just such a popular piece that of course they sold lots and lots and lots Of tickets for people to hear car barana you know it's like on all the it's like on every every second TV commercial uses

coming to right so so people are like oh cool I want to go hear that one um so uh because corn gold started the program uh there was no Overture or anything like that the stage manager told us hey you know after the first movement of corn gold can you just give a second for the ushers to let people in for late seating you know if Anyone's come late so of course no problem so the first two concerts we just sort of get in the habit of after the first moment taking a little bit of

time and you know there would be people kind of filtering in that had come late and uh so the third concert comes and uh this part is not funny it's is sad that that there was some guy in the audience that had like a medical situation and he was fine but but they needed to take care of it and it so it delayed the Start of the concert by about 20 25 minutes um so then we go out and we start playing corn gold and we get to the end of the first movement and because

we were just sort of conditioned to do it we just sort of you know I let my instrument down and we just sort of take a little time and I just look to the uh to the exits and and sure enough there are you know late comers like filtering in and then it hits me and I said hey Donald these are the people That were hoping to miss the entire conero right like who shows up 35 minutes into a concert it's like those are people that did not want to hear any corn gold the whole

situation was so ridiculous that then I start laughing and then he starts laughing and then it was like we couldn't it was like we couldn't look at each other for the rest of the the rest of the movement right of the of the next movement because we would have kind of busted Out yeah and and you know I mean sometimes like odd things happen in a concert like I felt really bad about this one I was playing Beethoven uh in Washington at the Kennedy Senator uh and there was this family that was in the front

row that I mean it was just like you could just tell they they had they had never been there before you know that that they were I think really stoked to be there but it was like they'd never kind of been to a concert Like everything sort of about the way they were you know you know interacting with it you could tell it was very new and fresh and I thought that was kind of cool like they were all super dressed up like I think that they were you know how sometimes people that don't actually

go to classical music concerts are like well do I have to wear a tuxed no you know well they were all like just dressed to the nines and you know the other thing is it's like classical music It's so funny like in certain parts of the world people you know are like well we have to we have to fight the the impression of being elitist and it's like elitist like the most expensive ticket for the national Symphony Orchestra is like cheaper than any ticket to any Taylor Swift concert right so I'm imagining that this family

probably was like wait we can sit in the front Row for only this this is amazing and they got all dressed up they they in The front row and so it's beo and conero and you know during the long toti like I could tell at the beginning of the piece like they're just kind of looking at me like what like what is when is this guy going to play like what's he doing he's just standing there like everyone else is playing and he's not playing he's just standing there like what is going on and so

then I start playing and like we get to the end of the exposition where I've got And I finish and these two women are like and and it was really sweet like they were sort of like oh he finished his riff like we're going to applaud right of course like like one might in some other musical gen and the conductor was so like like you know he can't see any of this right it's behind his head and so he just doesn't know what to do and so the orchestra is like and he hear this wo

and he just like stops and holds and and turns Around and turns back and just goes like this and the whole Orchestra comes in again it was amazing it was seamless so it was done it was being filmed for metag TV and they somehow for the broadcast stitched it together where you wouldn't even know it happened like you hear this weird like sort of artifact of like or something and but that one that one was a little hard to sort of keep my concentration cuz the thing that was That was kind of most sad about

it is I was like these people are just trying to have a good time but you know there were other people were like scowling at them like this is outrageous like listen nobody died all right everyone's having a good time here it's really interesting that like cuz yeah it's a bit of a conflict right like I I feel like think about that like our concerts are very much like that you know people laugh and cheer while we're Playing half the time yes I think it's cuz it's half the time so they laugh and cheer when

you're playing with him they don't is that what you're [Laughter] saying I mean I don't know like how would you explain it for us it feels good on stage but I also get the other side of it which is I can imagine someone really wants to go there to enjoy the music and people are being destructive and just being Rowdy it it Becomes harder to enjoy the music right it that then it's almost like moving towards let's say uh cuz you mention like different genres right and there's inherently like this difference right cuz if you

go to a pop concert people are there a lot of times yeah for the music but a lot of it is for the atmosphere they're basically half lip syncing to the backing track anyway it's not like it's a real live performance right so I don't know well It's it is really it's uh it's a fascinating question and and there's no there's no real answers right like I think that um the beauty of a collective shared experience is fraught with tension um they're because everyone is going to have their own reasons for being there they're going

to have their own way of of appreciating it their own way of taking it in um and you know I I think you know when people ask me about You know performance etiquette or whatever like I I feel like basically you want to how to say this you want to have the best experience for yourself while also understanding that you don't want to impede anyone else's ability to enjoy it the way they want to and sometimes I think that you know that means that is a certain amount of sacrifice for everyone right like you know

That and that's part of being with people and dealing with people and I think that you know sometimes if if you know you're at a concert and you get frustrated with someone else it's like well listen you're that is that's the world right that's that's human nature and and ultimately everyone nobody goes to a concert to not have a good time right like everyone is there to hopefully just bring something special to their day to their life whatever and You know if as long as I I do find it I think that the kind of

thing that that bothers me is performative audience members that okay yeah are that in a way that is designed to impact another person's experience can you give an example I mean it could be it could be any but you know the type of person that the type of person that is going to draw attention to themselves whether it's for their appreciation whether it's For their dislike of something whether it's to show that they you know understand the music and feel it deeper than whatever it may be it's like listen you know just your situation is

your situation and I can totally like I can appreciate it when you know if if there are some people that just physically are really reactive to music um and that's great and that's beautiful you know but you have to understand that even if you know you're hearing that Beethoven Symphony and you're like this piece makes me want to clap my hands it's like well that's terrific but you have to understand that these people around you don't want you to clap your hands and your experience if you say that you lost one half of 1% of

your experience cuz you couldn't clap along to the beov symphony it's like well you would have taken away like 50% of the experience of every it's just reason but uh but basically I Don't know I think that the most successful concerts are also don't you feel like what like when you've brought an audience together where you feel at the end of that concert like all those people in that room are friends somehow because they've shared in something meaningful and something something that that has affected them I think that that's like as performers that's the best

thing we can aspire to is like have people enter As strangers and leave if I mean maybe it's a little a little over the top to be like leave as friends but leave with a shared Bond and you know we've all had that sort of experience right like where you'll meet somebody um you know this happens I think to to us in the music business a lot right where where you'll meet somebody and you'll be like I was at that concert wasn't that amazing and all of a sudden you have this Bond you have this

shared connection and uh and You know it's like with with your fans it's like I feel like your fans you know you you can have someone like some kid from Los Angeles meets some person from like Shanghai and all of a sudden they have a point of contact and that's what we're looking for in life right it's like these points of contact where we can have these relationships with people and and it's you know it brings brings the world together You no it's true actually we we've had um fans where they kind of like started

dating cuz they met or like a lot of there a lot of stories like and also fans that like they just go to the concert themselves and they actually make friends well cuz they're younger they see people they first time they become friends they start hanging out a lot more because there is kind of shared interest some that's not even our concerts I've heard stories of people Our fans going to the local classical concert but then they're both going two set apparel so they're like I see you yeah I see and there some buzzword they're

like I mean when people see us it's almost like a code word um even last week some dud he's like he running like multiple businesses and stuff and he's oh boys I know you watching stuff I'm like oh nice and he's like lingling I'm like Oh you know yeah leans over the shoulder it's like Ling Ling Ling okay well yeah I mean I think that um you know the other thing and I mean you guys tap into this so well that it's like in our world of classical music whatever I think that I think that

everyone goes through a period of feeling slightly alone right and and that realization um that yeah that there are lots of people that share that that that common Bond that's Important yeah no definitely I think even for us that was a really nice surprise when we first started our Channel like we didn't realized when we first made those short videos just like dumb relatable skits of like you know life being a musician and everyone's like that's so true I also do that and then we're like wow it's like we're not the only ones like I

thought we were the only ones cuz when you yeah when you go to a normal high school Right like maybe 1% of the students even know what a violent is like oh do you play small guitar guar can you play this insert pop piece I don't know like it and so it was kind of nice when we first started like that people can relate bond together and then also kind of nice we got to meet like great soloists like you eventually so yeah sorry yeah oh I say the other the other thing that I think

is kind of um you know just to give you guys a Compliment but uh that I think that it's a business where there's a lot of posturing you know like there's you don't actually get that many sort of real glimpses behind the scenes like you know when you guys are like this is difficult and it's difficult for everybody I think that means a lot to people that are like I was worried it was only difficult for me you know or like if I'm you know if you're doing some you know you're Talking about you know

the the the tension of an audition or getting nervous for this or that or like thinking you're prepar preped and then you screw it all up like there there are a lot of people in the business that they pretend that doesn't exist right that's that's what I mean by this sort of posturing like particularly you know people on my side of the business like the sort of you know the The Soloist that that you know it it is to a certain Extent it's kind of our job to appear like like we're just always on top

of what we're doing but but yeah you know what I mean how how I think that that the when you can yeah you've given you've given this this platform to people where they're like yeah you know I'm not alone in this like we're all we all deal with these these situations yeah so but see the thing is with James he doesn't pretend that everything's easy it actually is just everything's Easy for you right like there's no performative there right yeah you know I mean the fact is it's all super simple for me yeah no of

course of course not but I mean that's It's Tricky right because like we all anybody who plays an instrument is everyone has different sort of inherent abilities and also everyone has different experiences with how they're taught to practice or whether they have the the ability for concentration or for You know I guess what I'm saying is everybody's circumstance is different and and it's so difficult to talk about like you know you meet somebody who's really good at anything or really successful at anything and and it's and and we're curious like what's this person's story what

was their what was their path and and It's Tricky when you know when people you know as a as a musician if you play well people always come up to you and they're always like You are so talented and it's sort of like one of those things like you know hey compliment is a compliment and that's always nice to receive right and you always have to appreciate that but it it's kind of a backhanded compliment right because they're basically the the the sort of implication is just like well you're just really talented and that's how

you can do this and there you know so the other side of that this implied Is if I were that talented I could do that too and it's sort of like well you know I really work really hard so like I've worked really really really hard but then there's the other side of that which is that you I think that sometimes people that are very very successful at at you know some sort of like say in the Performing Arts they will they'll get so tired of the you're so talented thing that they'll really double down

on that Do you know how hard I've worked I've worked this hard and the thing is that the thing that I I realize is that I have worked really really hard but like lots of people have I mean like there are so many so many of my friends that they' worked just as hard as I have and they just haven't gotten as far and that I have to be really really grateful for so you know when people are like you're very talented it's like well I I did I Got a very lucky role of the

dice with a lot of ways but I also worked really hard so you know what can you what can you say that's such a good way to put it though yeah that's I love how you mentioned that because yeah I feel like no I was going to say I love that you bring that Balan perspective cuz I think especially online today there's so many people like motivational sound bits and they just give like really cliche Overgeneralized like statements like talent doesn't matter it's all how much you're willing to sweat and then it's like you said

well many people work really hard and yeah to to accuse them of not working hard enough is also sometimes unfair right yeah um but like to be able to see that kind of more nuance to it well you know you can't um you can't know somebody's story right like you can you can have your suspicions about like you know you meet Someone and you're like yeah you're just kind of skating by on Raw Talent you haven't been working hard enough or um or vice versa you know you can get impressions of people but you can't

you can't know people but it's interesting like you know becoming a father like that has really given me a lot of perspective on a lot of things you know it's what what every parent says but but you know I think that I think the best thing a person can Achieve is to maximize whatever Talent they have in whatever discipline or or area that might be you know if you care about something like there is no shame in not achieving something as long as you have become the best version of yourself the you can that you

can be and you know and I think that sometimes people are I think sometimes people are unfair about understanding what is hard for certain people like um I think that there's you know the sort of the the Stereotypical you know tiger parent that's like you know your your friend practices 10 hours a day and you only practice 8 hours a day and it's like you know some people have incredible ability for concent and some people don't and that's not really their fault like I mean some of the most incredibly intelligent people that I've known have

serious limitations with playing their instrument because they can't concentrate the way that they Would need to to Really practice but they're brilliant people like staggering intellects but that is a particular sort of hole and it would be absolutely ridiculous for someone to be like you don't work hard enough it's like that's not that's not what it's about you know they and uh it's just you know the other thing about when people you know you guys wrote to me about that that subject of you know what makes a great performance or you know a successful Performance

or however you word it and you I've been thinking a lot about that it's it's such an interesting question but I feel like when when someone goes out there and you feel like they are doing the best they can and they are being absolutely honest and trying to tell you something important with their performance trying to share something that's genuine you know when they're not trying to fool you or manipulate you but when They're just being very direct and honest about sharing something that means something to them to the best of their abilities I think

that's like that's my favorite kind of performance and and that sometimes those are you know like student performances or you know performances from from kids and and definitely those are performances that cross like every genre of music um but those are the ones that that like really speak to me so I think that I think that Though we all want to be great at our instruments and we all want to like play you know flawlessly we all want to have beautiful sounds we all want to play clean and in tune and while all that stuff

is incredibly important and you you want to strive for it like you can't let that get in the way of being a Storyteller and of of saying something of value and saying something that's real you know like I mean the performances I Hate are the ones where I feel like I'm being played you know where where I'm like I don't think that's you I don't think that's you talking I think that you are playing role because you think that this role that you're playing will equate to some kind of success and of course the frustrating

thing this inous yeah 100% yeah is the frustrating thing is is I think that um sometimes you can be very very wrong About that you know you can you can be like that person oh you know said what a cheese ball this is you know the most and then you get to know them and you realize like well that's actually kind of who they are and I've had that exper experience with players where I haven't really been able to enjoy their work until I meet them and then I'm like wow you really are that person

and now I get it and and I appreciate it and you appreciate because that's who he is or Who she is right yeah yeah and so that's that's another reason why I think it's so nice when uh when there can be that wall sort of broken down between performers and audience and whe when there are venues and opport opportunities um to you know expose a little bit more of of who you are because then I think like you know if if I'm playing a a recital somewhere I always feel like if I have an opportunity

to just speak a little bit To the audience that I feel like it opens up uh for some listeners in particular it opens up what may have been a a barrier between like real true communication um anyway it's an interesting subject I feel like I was going to touch on that I I think that translates to also even just all Fields as well mhm even for us let's say on social media it's the same it's like yeah some creators that you can Tell they're just putting on an act put to get the views the attention

hey how's it going welcome back you know you know it's not them like there's there's a few there's almost like few categories one is like from experience you can yeah okay this is this J just from experience you know you can kind of feel it but then there's some those experiences where like you like you meet them it's like oh my God this person Actually that's that person wow this is crazy mindblowing and then there my case was like you know the person we met them before and they do the content like oh they doing

it because they think that's the only way they can like what you said like just like it's it's it's just inauthentic and I think it feel like applies everywhere not just performances too you know it's like I've I've been on not a ton but I've been on some juries for competitions and um and it's always Really sad when when you you come across someone who you feel like they they are suppressing who they really are because they think that if they do this that that's going to like impress the jury and it's like we're not

looking for that like and and you know think about I had a great friend there's this great friend of my a chal named Yan Vogler wonderful guy that um he years ago probably 20 years ago we were hanging out and Talking and no he like 25 years ago now that I think about it and he we were talking about just the kind of the awful that awful stage of one's career as like a young soloist where you're like auditioning for some conductor or Empress Ario or whatever you know go into a situation and you know

there's such an an imbalance of power you you walk into this situation and like what do you have to play for me today like I'm going to play at the first it's just It feels so awkward and so awful and uh and of course that's what many audition situations are are like and um and he said such an interesting thing where he said you know think about when you hear somebody play like you kind of know right away if you like their playing or if you don't and if you really like someone's playing and if

you connect to them and when he was saying you like their playing I think I would go further than that like if you like them you know If someone I mean I'm talking a stranger if someone comes into a room and this isn't like a visual connection it's like if something in their playing connects to you and you're like oh I like you then all sorts of little things can go wrong and you forgive them it's not it's not important it's like that was a little out that's fine you know I I get the message

I get the story here um on the other hand you we we all know that it's like if there's someone who starts To play and you're like I hate this like there's nothing they can do right like it it's it's like if someone plays and you like their playing you'll forgive almost anything and if someone plays and you don't like they're playing no matter how well they play you're still not going to like their playing and so the lesson of this basically was like obviously you always want to play your best and and when you're

you know when you're sort of developing as a Student or something there can be certain disqualifying factors like you know if you show up at a competition and you just aren't playing well enough okay fine that's a disqualifying kind of factor but you know get to your professional life and it's like just be you because the people that are going to like you are going to like you right away and assuming that you don't you know like completely fall off the beam they're going to like it and if They don't there's almost nothing you can

do to convince them so why worry about it you know because we all have to accept that right like as performers I mean you guys have to deal with that just as much as I do like with the the understanding that there are going to be people that are like no don't like it and yeah that's okay that's perfectly fine hopefully there are fewer of them than the people that do like it well it's like you need to have some Haters right kind of indicate success almost and I I don't I think the way I

think about it too is like yeah it's like you said there's obviously certain standards or disqualifying factors um so even that is like contextual but yes at at a certain point you want to you know to stand out and be meaningful you want to be unique and different and being yourself is kind of the easiest way to do that cuz there is no two people that exactly you right whereas if you're Trying to be this other model that people think is the right thing to do and everyone's trying to be that person then everyone starts

sounding the same and being the same person then audiences don't really have that unique connection yeah that's I I I love to hear you say it because yeah I've always I've always felt exactly that same thing like people feel like in order to be an individual they have to impose upon the performance and it's like nobody nobody Can be more individual than you being you and and you know it's It's Tricky too with like you know people we we all go through these periods of you know kind of worshiping whatever player we're into at the

moment and um you know growing up and you you try to imitate those sounds and but you can never be anything more than just sort of a bad imitation of anybody else but you just naturally are uniquely you and uh and you know the the the Thing is that it's like some people this is the other thing like some people we just don't we just don't connect to right like we all have those sorts of things like people where you know like I love that person's playing and you're like I just I just don't I

don't get anything out of it and that's okay you know that's that's that's great like it's a big world out there and you know like doing what I do it's like there are a lot lot of violent solists Out there and it's and it's funny like I think of like all my my colleagues out there and that are all really nice people you know it's like they're all all we're all friends and and and it's all great and people like oh is there like big rivalries and it's like no like I and I but I

I think that you know if you'd got a room of like 10 of us together we'd all have a grand time and if you took each one of us aside and like really got us to you know speak Like in our heart of hearts it's like of course we each one of us is convinced that we're right you know like you know you get 10 violin Souls playing mendleson conero we all believe the way we're doing it is the best way of doing it we have to right like we have to feel that way if

we don't feel that way like if I'm not totally convinced that like I understand this story completely and I am the I am the person that needs to tell you this story I'm the one that Needs to bring this to you if we don't feel that way like if we're not convinced of that ourselves how could we possibly convince anyone else of it right um so I think that there is there's that balance are you convinced Joel Mendon is the definitive interpretation yes I intentionally did the quarter tones I uh well you know I mean

listen I'm sure that mendleson I'm sure he was feeling that yeah How to write it down yeah you're ahead of your time I was when was I want to ask you though actually because it's so interesting right so then I feel like again like I don't know this digging the rabbit hole too much but so we talk about this idea of being authentic and individual um but then you kind of run into these interesting Cas time back to what you said earlier about performative right where some now you get potentially People that kind of do

weird zany things in their performance maybe just like rub that's almost so distasteful that but it's provocative and it's attention seek it grabs attention and gets people to talk and it's like you said sometimes it's hard to tell if it's genuine or not and you know you get these performances there was one recently in the Queen Elizabeth where people in social media was very split attention was a MZ and Some half the people loved the courage to do that and other half was like yeah but it felt it didn't well they W convinced it was

coming from an authentic place um yeah what do you think about that well you know I can't speak to that specifically is I didn't I didn't listen to you know to that that uh competition so but but in general terms um you know I'm going to use this as an opportunity to like sound like a real Grumpy old man for a little bit you know I I think finally people will see your true self authentic right get off my lawn yeah I I think I I think that uh you know sometimes sometimes people will like

it's almost like if you've got a piece of music like like you're making a casserole and sometimes people are like well I'm just going to like add a dash of musicianship here and and there and you know like they'll add these like Spots these moments where where you know you'll you'll be listening to it and you're like this sounds like literally 99% of every like good student you've ever heard play the piece except for like at that moment they like slowed way down to prove that they're different you know and I think and I mean

listen I don't mean to be dismissive I mean all we do with music is like we we try things out and maybe they work and maybe they don't but um so yeah I don't mean To be so condescending and dismissive of things that you know sayy things happen but but I guess I think a problem is I think the way that people listen to music is in serious danger of changing and changing in a way that I don't like I say this really makes me sound like a grumpy old man but I I think it's

I think it's important to draw the comparison and like the way that a lot of people listen now you know we live in this crazy age when you think about it Where like we have basically the entire catalog of recorded music history at our fingertips all the time you know uh and and like there's this amazing letter from Brams to Clara Schuman where he's like Clara you've got to go to dorf I think because they're going to do a Mozart piano concerto and she writes back and she's like that's amazing I've always wanted to hear

a Mozart piano concerto like I have all the mozark Piano ceros on my phone and I can listen to them anytime I want and you know so I think that sometimes the way that people start have started listening is you know they go to YouTube or Spotify or apple music whatever it is they'll like line up 10 different recordings of SE concerto and they're like how does this person do this 5-second passage and how about that five how how are the octaves how's the Ricochet how's that part on the G string how's the big run

you know Then they they sort of like tap in and Sample and make decisions about what they think they like based on a clip like a clip that is you know I mean it's you know social media this is it certainly is we're living in an age of Clips right and and listen we've all done that like I've certainly done that you know I wonder who plays this chopan atude the fastest you know like dumb stuff like that and um but the thing is like that so the the Parallel that I would draw to that

is it's as if people were going into a bookstore and they like took a book off the shelf and they just opened it randomly and they're like I don't like that word I like what what like I mean this is a this is a book this is like a story this is something vast and you're basing your opinion on it of something completely out of context that you know so getting back to your Original point like I think that because people listen like this more and more I think we're seeing the market respond to it

and sometimes you see musicians where their performances become a collection of moments moment after moment after moment after moment moment and the danger is that sometimes then people will you know and I'll I'll hear people talking about they're like well you know whatever that that you know recording from the The past you know something like I've like just absolutely revered my entire life and they're like well yeah I listen to that one but like the you know I listen to a lot of piano playing they're like oh yeah that Rubenstein one but it's not clean

in that like passage in the third movement and it's like what are you talking about like like that is that really what you care about like like that is literally like picking up a book and saying yeah that That word there I I don't like that word so the book somehow isn't interesting to me and instead like picking up a book and like looking at one word every five or six pages and being like oh this is an awesome book it's like it's not a book at all at that point um so yeah you know

I think that I I think that when people decide to impose ideas in music that are not related to a concept as of the whole then we're not we're not telling a story anymore we're just sort Of being an acrobat and you know if you're if you're just going to be sort of like a violinistic acrobat like there's no there's no end game for that right like there's always going to be someone that can play it a little faster or a little louder whatever it is and and you know I've sort of lost interest in

that in that kind of kind of thing it's like I'm interested in the people that you know like when I when I listen to other Violinists like you know 99% of the time if I listen to another violinist it's going to be a piece I know and probably a piece I play and so I'm not listening to it for them to like impress me with like that octave passage or their staccato bow or something it's like I I like I I know how that works like I know I know how to do that like that

and I'm also not looking for someone to have like you know studied my recording and played Exactly like me because then it just sort of sounds like like false and and weird it's like I'm looking for somebody who who is going to convince me of that version of the story and I'll be like wow like and that's like I think of someone like hitz you know that yeah like like you know if I put on a recording of hits it's like is there any piece that I can listen to a recording of hits where I'm

like I want to play the piece exactly like that it's like no Cuz that's not really kind of the way I hear things exactly but every time I listen to him play a piece I'm like wow like like I get it I get what you're doing I get what you're trying to say and I'm totally convinced of it at the moment that I'm listening to it I'm totally convinced because like he plays in such a way where you listen to it and you're like oh well and again not if you're like spot checking you know

it's like if you're if you're listening to 10 Seconds here you're like oh sounds old fashioned or whatever you know to the whole the whole piece it's like maybe for the first little while you might be wow this does sound sort of you know oldfashioned or whatever but you listen to the whole thing and you're like well okay you you've convinced me you've convinced me of the greatness of of what we're listening to and you know that's then it the other the other interesting part of the equation too is like you Know that the more

you know a piece the more You' studied it the the probably the firmer your ideas are on the text right and like what the composer meant and and I got to say like sometimes I am definitely guilty of of like it's hard for me to get past things that I see as being fundamentally against the intention of the composer and and but it's one of those things like not M piano well you know it's like if a Composer you know has has basically written a musical shape that goes like that and if someone is like

I feel it like this yeah and that's hard for me to get past and in a way I feel like that's a little bit sad on my behalf because like I sometimes I sometimes I kind of uh uh you know I I wish I could go back to those days of just like hearing something and being like Oh that sounded pretty cool before I knew that it was like That's not at all what that composer was looking for but but I just I sort of feel like and you know the we again like I was

saying about how every violent soul is is going to be convinced that they know the right answers right like how can we really know but but you know you hopefully you've develop a sense with like the greatest composers who like really write their music really really really well because there's a difference right there are composers With great ideas and then there are great composers that like they it's they just have figured out and um and you know we we de we develop what we think is kind of a logical understanding of what that composer is

looking for and we can't know that that we're we're right or anything but there are certain things where I feel like you know if if you've got a piece by a composer who was known for just being an excellent excellent crafts person you Know you've got like a piece by Brams or you know B talk or Rell or you know someone very precise in their notation and you're like yeah you know I know they said soft but I'm just going to I don't I I don't really get it so I'm just going to play it

Loud it says to you know put it says to slow down here but I think it sounds better to speed up the thing that that always makes me think is it's sort of like what then you don't really understand what this story Is do you like like if you can't justify if you can't find any reasonable justification for why a composer wrote something in that part that's okay but can you really can can you really honestly tell yourself that you understand what that story is cuz like no one no composer writes like random stuff in

their parts you know it's like if it made it into the part there's some sort of reason and of course the then you get into all these interesting Points of like well bethoven writing a certain word in Italian does not mean the same thing is when like Elgar writes the same word 150 years later right like it yeah it's it's different yeah I mean I remember those like conductors being like swando in Beethoven's music actually means this versus that or like in brahs an accent often as the BR connotations things like that so it's like

this like you said The more you study it you Really it's so true Contex understand you know you work you work with composers and like sometimes sometimes you know you can find yourself pouring over some some score and you're like oh I don't know you know is this you know is does the crescendo start on this 16th note or does it start later is this you know and you know and then you have to take a step back and realize like if you were to ask you know Beethoven like what that Meant he'd probably be

like what are you talking about like you stop it um but then but then there are other things and you know and and it's amazing you work with so many living composers and there will be things where you're like listen this is like really kind of awkward and and I don't know if it works so well but if I do this I think it's great and they'll be like no that's not at all what I'm looking for and you're like okay and then there will be other Things where you'll ask them yeah about like some

tiny DET or sometimes not even a tiny detail and they'll be like well I don't know I mean what do you what do you think like yeah so yeah you can never you can never really know but you but you know you it's all part of that um that idea of convincing yourself of being like yep I know how this works I know how this works best and you know I know how this works best as a big shape Like that's that's where you want to be like you don't want to hem yourself in so

much to be like I know how that every single note has to be every time exactly like this for it for the story to be told because then it just gets like stilted and weird and there's no there's no mitigation for different circumstances and you know you want to have that flexibility of things in the moment where you might do this or that and and we see that written in in Notation right things that are seemingly in opposition written into music and you're like what in the heck is that supposed to mean and then when

you get the kind of emotional context of you you're like oh right you can like get louder while getting softer or you know you can like lose energy while accelerating you know they're like these things that are seemingly contradictions it's like they become these emotional Expressions that when you get it you get It yeah Al so we're getting like deep into the nerd W stick our heads out and breathe but um okay so I just want to summarize CU that was a lot uh man like I like that what you said though first of all

the big picture how we're in a day of Clips even in the world of content I've spoken to creators that you know the videos where it's meant to look spontaneous but they already have in mind the little clips That they want to manufacture from the long form and I can imagine yeah just kind of the day and age you're going into so the big picture second thing being like how convincing the story is and how convincing you're yourself it makes me want to listen to some highit skin yes yes like just but and so it

sounds to me like what is convincing to you or not and maybe I'm misinterpreting is uh a combination of whether the performer themselves seems Truly convinced of it themselves and also whether they are convinced or at least they understand the composer's story because if they don't really even understand what the composer wants then how much they really understand the story are those kind of like the two main things yeah yeah I think so I mean that you know that last point is is definitely it's a really tricky one to to articulate and it's a very

subjective Thing you know but um but yeah I think that uh I think people that are able to craft a comp compelling narrative through through the duration of whatever that performance is that's a successful performance for me and um and yeah one one that I can that I can really admire and respect and and yeah and and I I don't want to go I I don't want to contradict myself earlier exactly but but I I'm thinking now about things about how um I've definitely Listen to a lot of performances where I may have disagreed with

an interpretation of many different details but I've found the interpretation of the whole to be compelling and moving and and and speaking to me and uh like it's funny like I think that with pieces that I know really really well I've heard performances where every decision that in every interpretive decision along the way has struck me as intelligent as Rational as textually justifiable and the whole has left me like just completely blah nothing and then I've heard other performances where I've been like I don't know why you would do that there or I wish you

hadn't done this there but the shape of what you're saying is that that is that is to me what that music needs to be and I love that yeah interesting I definitely want to like Try that way of listening yeah I know I really want to like listen to Pieces okay what is my interpretation of it do I know enough and look into its composing piece and then try and figure out how are they trying to convince me as a actually can I also just say I mean it's funny cuz cuz you speak of like

these big picture versus small details and I mean one of the things we always last impression it's not a direct parallel obviously but one of the big Impressions your when we first heard you play the bar Presto was how you managed to make to ask I don't know if this is what you're trying to do it was my bad day to us it felt like you know rather than just a bunch of flurry of notes you really somehow made it feel like just two big aring phrases that like that that if I had if you

had been like hey what do you want me to say about the perform I'd be like Can you say something like that that that's such a compliment yeah I mean that's that I mean that that is the way that that music just speaks to me and in larger shapes like like how that's how I like to listen to things is understanding paragraph so you know sentences paragraphs chapters rather rather than words yeah um yeah and and you know I'm I'm a funny listener because I got to say like I get I get bored pretty easily

with like Concerts that I don't enjoy like sometimes I really I really like I really admire i b of concerts that out of context I get B of concert I don't enjoy them no like honestly this is terrible but like bad concerts and I know that that's a really that's a very subjective um thing to say but like bad concerts I can't stand them like I honestly I I go to concerts sometimes where I pass the time by thinking of all the other things I'd rather be doing and like that's sad yeah that's really sad

like it's sad that I mean I love music so much like and and I feel so lucky I feel so lucky to have the capacity for it to mean that much to me like I feel like that is just such an incredible gift and you know I know I'm not like unique in that sense obviously there's so many people that love music but I consider myself to be like in that highest bracket of Music nerd lovers like I just I love it so Much but I don't know that I'm like I'm not a great example

of like frankly the people that we need in the world to sustain the music industry like I love the fact that there are you know little classical music organizations all over the world like in little towns and communities here and there I love that and I ask myself sometimes like if I lived in some little place that had you know some little you know Amateur Orchestra you know series like would I go and like I don't know if I would and that that makes me very very sad because it's not a reflection upon any sort

of like value of what they do what the what any musician that goes out there and performs and puts themselves out there is doing something wonderful and admirable and impressive and and valuable um but where I've gotten with music has in a way taken that it's taken that innocence of Appreciation away from me and it's a trade it's a trade I would happily make because of because of the depth of the feeling that I have for it when I love it um but but it's a strange feeling you know it's a strange feeling that like

when I that when I go to a concert that I love I feel like like I look around the room and I'm like I think I liked this more than anybody here you know and then sometimes I'll go to a concert that wasn't like a bad concert you know like Nothing terrible happened or anything but I'll be like everyone here is loving this and like I'm getting nothing and that's a weird feeling and you know I I don't even know why I'm telling you guys this but but it's um it's strange the way that you

know that one's relationship to music changes and uh you know and it's you know I know I'm not alone with this it's like sometimes I talk to some of my my friends and colleagues that like I mean I've spoken To older people and you you think of like Beethoven right like he couldn't hear any of that stuff for like the the last many years of his life and but it was there with him right and it meant a lot to him and I I bring this up because I remember talking to like some old musicians

that I really admired and they're like I haven't listened like I love you know I remember one of them talking about the third Bram Symphony this guy just loved it so so much he's Like I haven't listened to it in years and I'm like why why not and he's like because it's like it's here and any performance is not going to quite live up to what that piece really is in in my mind and I was like wow that's interesting kind of crazy but damn interesting it's I I I think like I'm trying to understand

I think I know what you mean it's like as you develop the tast I I feel like okay the parallel draw today Is I feel it in contest as well but also like per even on the say social media as well there's some content when I watch you know I'm kind of like yeah that's really cool I really enjoy it and as you do more and more there's some contents that's just like I don't feel anything mhm when I watch some certain I'm like maybe it's too performative maybe it's so inauthentic I honestly don't feel

there well I mean I don't know I think a lot Of it too this's a topic I wanted to touch on before but I was like no this this podcast is going to go for 10 hours we go but I did have this question before of like well if it's about unique convincing authentic or what is authentic yeah right because I think there's also a self-discovery process of understanding who you are and that applies both as a performer and as a listener right I think people have to go Through a process of understanding what they

like and dislike the tastes in music and so in many ways I feel like as a musician as you become much more studied and you hear a lot more things you formulate more of your own beliefs about how you want what would convince you versus say maybe someone that isn't so much um you know maybe a newcomer they just there I agree that there's part of that innocence which is beautiful but I also see a lot of times People kind of just not that sure how to feel and they kind of look around and so

a lot of times it's like if someone just has a big name and is famous they assume that they are amazing whereas not necessarily and you know other way around so I feel like there is it's that trade-off as you learn more about a subject you kind of well it's a it's a really I wish I could enjoy the Packa Bell's canon bro has you know it's there's a very Dangerous thing I think like you know I me okay so the our so-called you know classical music for lack of a better term I always feel

like classical music is such a weird term like I don't know but it's what we use so okay fine but um it's funny how like sometimes people will be like oh you know it's it's we've got to protect the art form it's endangered and you know there aren't enough young listeners and blah blah blah not one of these real doomsday People I'm actually really optimistic about it because I feel like it means a lot to a lot of people so that being said you know I'm not super pessimistic at all but I'm not sure that

the art form is so secure that we can afford to be like really Cavalier about it and not put the best product forward all the time and there's a danger that like when people go to a concert they make an investment to go it's an Investment of time it's an investment of money it's an investment of concentration of interest um so basically if people go to something they they've already made a decision right to a certain extent um and if they are being told that they're like this is the best thing in classical music this

this performer say um this is the best the classical music has to offer and they're like okay well I should check it out and they buy an Expensive ticket and they block the time and they get to the concert hall and they like go through that whole thing which is not insignificant you know we need to appreciate that that's people are busy and and they go ahead and they do that and like you're saying you know sometimes it's like they're kind of looking around and you know is this is like I think this is great

like this is great I was told this is great and no One wants to feel stupid nobody wants to feel like well I just wasted you know hundred bucks and like this is like no one wants that they're looking for any reason to feel validated in the decision that they've already made so it's like they look around and maybe there will be a performance that is not speaking to them at all and maybe it's something where but then the performance is over and because everybody has already bought Into the publicity and to the experience performance

is over and everyone's like Yay you know and they're like what so what's going to happen what's the result of that experience the result of that experience 99.9% of the time is that person's going to come out and it's like hey how was the concert it was amazing the person was so incredible they're so talented you know um that's and then they're like like oh so it was really awesome like did you did you really love And they're like well well I mean the person was incredible I'm not really a classical music person but I

mean they were amazing and that is the worst thing that can happen because those people are convinced that they're wrong you know that like there's a part of them that's like that didn't really do it for me but everybody loved it and I know that they're the best at the industry has to offer because I read it and I saw it and I paid my money and So I guess classical music's just not for me you know so like sometimes when there will be some like crazy thing that's you know whatever the The Fad desure

and listen this is again this is this is dangerous territory because it's very it's very subjective stuff and as I said anybody who's up there performing and playing an instrument at a high level has worked incredibly hard and loves it a very great deal so who Am I who are any of us to like make Allegations of this that or the other but you know sometimes listen sometimes things happen where like there will be you know a a a certain so you know kind of social interest around a particular performer or this that or the

other or there's some sort of PR campaign that maybe doesn't quite match the product I'll leave it at that you know um and that and that and that I and people in the business who should know better are like they all they all want To get their piece of it for like the year and a half maybe that it's taking place you know because people on the in the industry will will understand that it's like this has got a short shelf life we've got to get in on it while we can and they always justify

it by saying you know what it's good for the industry you know look it's bringing in all these people it's good for the industry and I'm like it's not it's not good for the Industry I know exactly what like that yeah I hate that kind of I'm just going to use the word hate like I mean hate whatever it's like that kind of justification roundabout reasoning to justify anything that like it's like it's like a like a bias right it's like Yeah well yeah I forgot the name but I know what you mean it's like

oh well if the end result is more people come into classical music then that justifies ABCDE e that is dogy that I'm Putting out there right yeah but you know it's like we we have like the data is very easy to see it's like these things do not easily translate into you know from a business standpoint they don't translate into devoted consumers but what the real tragedy of that is is that the reason that they're not devoted consumers is because we didn't do our jobs in convincing them in the value of the art and the

reason that we didn't do that is because we were Looking for a a quick a quick thrill you know we were looking for a quick we were looking for a quick way to sell 2,000 tickets instead of a longer and more difficult way to sell 5,000 season tickets right um and again you know it's like it's very easy to talk about in terms of these really cut and dried like commercial ideals because you know it is literally a business but but it's really it's the denial of opportunity for it to Become something special in people's

lives cuz you know I would think that for any of us that are really devoted to the art form that really love It ultimately we want everyone to love it because it's human nature you know you you like something and I mean you see it in babies right it's like baby like tastes something they think is good and they're like this is awesome and they'll like try to you know give it to you you'll eat it you you'd really like this Baby food too you know we want to share things that have meaning to us

and um you know and listen I mean I I am 100% sure that like there are lots of my concerts where lots of the people come and they're like yeah hated it like I mean that's just the nature right like I so so it's really mean-spirited for me to be like well that person isn't good for the industry it's like I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there like you're not good Whatever as I say it's super subjective but I think that I think the point is that those of us that really

love it have to be have to be protective of of it in the sense of always putting our always putting our best foot forward and always being advocates for it for the right reasons yes um and then that can be you know like I say it's not endangered but it's not it it but it needs it needs tending right yeah I mean I have so many Thoughts about this right like it's like advocates for but for the right reasons it's like if in some hypothetical timeline we can make classical music super mainstream but at the

expense of all its values get turned upside down every vience is playing to backing like is it really the same thing like what what was the point of that goal you know um but you know the thing the thing is I don't Worry about that because because I feel like I I feel like the one thing you can count on is eventually eventually people will not want to consume garbage you know like I mean I think that and and I think that that's something that there's there's a little bit of you know sort of unintentional

snobism to for those of us that play music that that really kind of lasts you know like Yeah I mean we and and it's not like you know it's not like every piece of music I play is like people have this idea that like every piece that a violin solist plays was like written by some dude in a powdered wig like hundreds of years ago it's like that's not true you know we it's a very living and vibrant art form but the idea is that you're hopefully creating uh art that will stand a certain test

of time and I think because Of that there's sometimes is an unintentional snobbery against things that are of the moment and what we would almost consider to be slightly disposable you know and and I'm not sure that that's fair like you know I think about I think about you know like pop bands that and and you know not like the greatest pop bands who you know have stood the test of time all that but I mean just like bands that like have a hit that's really popular for a couple Weeks or couple months or something

that's that's really hard to do like that's amazing but if it loses its if it loses its cultural re relevance after a what we would consider a short period of time that's okay you know that maybe maybe it wasn't meant to do that exactly but what we're trying to do is with with our music is something is something different I guess and and so I think this is all I I'm saying this in reference to the idea of eventually People if something isn't really valuable it will be discarded because I think that people that I

think that I I trust people to do that you know like um so I think that if you know in your in your sort of apocalyptic scenario right of yeah I was fixing classical music is everywhere but it's like not classical music at all it's just like this sort of like weird like popsy like everybody's like you know every every guy spends all the time At the gym and every woman and it's got like bands yeah you know it's if it turned into that the fact is it would be stupid and everyone would hate it

so it never would turn into that like I have no I have no fear of it because I I just I have more I have more faith in people you see Eddie I I believe in people maybe you just don't maybe that's what it is I don't know I need to learn some of that optimism I mean I know what you mean and I think I mean that that's a hard argument to either approve or disproof about whether over time people will naturally gravitate to real value but I guess I want to point out something

that's very interesting I've noticed as a common theme today it's like it really does correlate with classical music it's like the ability to see longer time periods and longer bigger pictures again right Like the in the moment clip versus the whole Symphony right what's Happening Now versus something that's Timeless over time and um yeah I don't know it reminds me of or like just seeing like longer term consequences of things I don't know where I'm going with this I just thought it was a very interesting I didn't Noti it is it's a fascinating Point yeah

and speaking of longer I just realized the time has flown by in this Been talking for like 2 hours I think this is the longest conversation we had on any podcast yeah it's awesome um okay well I could we should probably wrap up because this is a long episode but talking yeah well we'll do it again sometime we've got we've got a few more problems to solve but we're getting there right yeah yes we'll get in there we get in there cool you hit record right oh wait you wanted me to hit record I meant

to do it oh no tragedy um Okay things up to wrap things up I think James I think will definitely maybe do a part two sometime love to keep going on these conversations I think it really good but for this for the viewers as well we have to wrap things up here where can people find you do you have like albums coming out concerts coming up yeah well it's uh it's a fun season uh you know whether it's on my my Instagram stories or on my website you can get you know listings of My my

concerts uh a lot of the fall uh in the is in the US a few concerts in London October a big trip to Asia in November I'm really excited about in Singapore and soul Tokyo Hong Kong uh and then in the new year uh well there's some more stuff back in in the UK uh stuff in the states and but I'm spending like eight weeks or nine weeks I think in in New Zealand and Australia I'm super excited for it yeah you know that's a part of the world that's just Become really really special to

me and my family so we're we're really really looking forward to that a great deal and you know another big part of uh of my season every year is well you know I'm wearing my my swag here you know my Seattle Chamber music Society where I'm the artistic director and we uh we just wrapped our our Summer Festival not so long ago um we've got events throughout the year so I'm always sort of in and out in of Seattle and we got our twoe Winter festival at the end of January so it's you know it's

a busy season but it's all uh it's all stuff I'm really really looking forward to and yeah I've got a couple of uh albums coming out soon uh selus the concerto and and all the super super cool little pieces for violin and Orchestra like the six humores the two serenes the sweet like all these wonderful wonderful things so it's the complete sealas music for Violin and Orchestra and that was that was a project that was cancelled three times during like the covid years so we finally got it done it's with like some of my very

favorite collab collaborators Ed Gardner uh one of my just best friends and great conductor uh and the Bergen philarmonic uh and then uh brah sonatas but it's actually brahs Viola sonatas um and the Schuman uh Fairy Tales um with Andrew Armstrong pianist I work with a very great deal um and that One was super super fun for lots of reasons including I got to uh record on this amazing strad Viola that belongs to the Royal Academy in London and it it is just like the most inspiring amazing instruments so so yeah those are coming out

the next couple months that's exciting definitely have to get our hands on one the copies yes I might be able to arrange that yeah yes Please I want to hear the long phrases again yeah so good all right thank you everyone so much for listening thank you James for joining us and um again guys always have fun as always go practice that's right m