For most of human history people have believed in some kind of spiritual realm that exists alongside the world as we know it right and the biblical authors are no exception yeah for them the spiritual realm is a different kind of Realm than ours and to highlight that difference the Bible refers to God's space as the sky or the heavens because the sky is really different from the land it's above and beyond and up there Are shiny bodies that move around I think of these as flaming gas balls but when the biblical authors looked up the
Stars gave them a way to talk and think about Spiritual Beings in the Bible they're called the sons of God or the rulers and authorities or even sometimes the Divine Council so that sounds really important what does the Divine council [Music] do welcome to another episode episode of ring them Bells where we exist to help You ReDiscover the supernatural focus of your Bible we believe the supernatural focus of our Bibles has been suppressed and we're here to help bring that back into the light we do that with awesome videos and interviews with amazing Scholars like
NT Wright Tim Mackey of the Bible project and Dr Michael Heiser if you haven't yet please subscribe it just takes a small second for you but it means so much for the scope and range of this channel for us to share the good New news about what Jesus has done for our world thank you for liking and subscribing and sharing the content Dr Michael Heiser helped so many of us recover the supernatural focus of our Bibles Heiser existed to help the nonscholarly gain access to these important biblical Concepts so we could all explore this theme
that traces throughout the entire Narrative of the Bible that we call the Divine Council worldview recently the work of Dr Michael Heiser and the Divine Council worldview has come under under attack and criticism now we're not here to review their material or debate with anyone as it said the truth is like a lion you don't have to defend it all you have to do is let the truth free and it will do the rest so this episode will stand alone to show the truth and biblical validity of the Divine Council worldview and the work of
Dr Michael Heiser as many know Psalm 82 is a Lynch Pin passage for understanding the Divine Council worldview interestingly enough Jesus himself quotes Psalm 82 in John chapter 10 many who oppose the Divine counsil worldview and the work of Dr Michael Heiser misrepresent the words of Jesus in John 10 as a dismissal of the Divine counsil worldview when in actuality as we'll find out Jesus's words confirm the Divine counsel worldview in John 10 quoting Psalm 82 first before we get into Jesus quoting Psalm 82 let's go back to the beginning and understand the basics of
the Divine Council worldview and show how it connects to the entire Narrative of scripture we always say that the beginning is near and it's important for us to keep the concepts of Genesis close by our side as we navigate The Narrative of scripture for the author and audience of scripture Genesis is literally always on their mind as they're navigating through the Tanakh the beginning as we Say is a mental upload that we need to carry with us through the entire Narrative of the Hebrew scriptures I want to help the world see the beauty of God's
word and the hope that we have in our King Jesus and I believe fully understanding the Divine council worldview is the key to both of these so I prepared a concise 10-minute detailed explanation of the Divine Council worldview coming from Dr Michael Heiser himself and Tim Macky of the Bible Project and then even after that I condensed it down to a one minute synopsis so that we can have a clear understanding of what we're getting into when Jesus quotes Psalm 82 and what this Define council worldview is all about buckle up and get ready to
see the supernatural focus of our Bibles as we explore together the Divine Council worldview when most people think about the story of the Bible they think of a story about God and humans but remember We learned that there's a whole other cast of characters that appears throughout the Bible and plays a really important role right Spiritual Beings Angels demons and the like right and in the Bible they inhabit the Heavenly realm which is parallel to our Earthly reality and actually overlaps with it now all of these Spiritual Beings have their own unique characteristics but here's
what's fascinating the biblical authors have one word that can refer to All the inhabitants of the spiritual realm in Old Testament Hebrew the word is Elohim and in New Testament Greek it's Theos but here's the thing this word gets translated in lots of different ways depending on which being is referred to Angels Gods with a lowercase G or even god with a capital G wait so one word can refer to any of these beings yeah it's because Elohim is a category title it can designate any spiritual being that belongs to the Heavenly realm okay a
title not a name they called their God Yahweh which is the name revealed to Moses but they also sometimes refer to him with the category title Elohim using it like a name because they all know who they're referring to okay but don't the biblical authors think that Yahweh is in a class of his own not like any other they do which is why they say things like Yahweh is the Elohim of Elohim that is the chief Elohim among all the others or They'll say there's no Elohim beside Yahweh meaning no other spiritual being compares to
him because only he is the ruler and creator of all things can't following but I thought the Bible taught monotheism which means there's just one God well the biblical authors are claiming that among all of the Spiritual Beings out there only one is the source and creator of all things including including the Elohim that's biblical monotheism that one Elohim Yahweh is Above all other Elohim that is the other Spiritual Beings now with all that said we are ready to learn more about who these other Elohim are and how they fit into the biblical story the
authors of scripture believed the gods of the nations were real look at Psalm 82 carefully God stands in the Divine assembly he administers judgment in the midst of the Gods when you really look at Psalm 821 it's kind of shocking but there it is plain as day God presides Over an assembly of gods that he calls his sons we just not used to thinking of the heavenly host in those terms but that's what the Hebrew text says Psalm 89 says the same thing about God's counsel in the heavens a god feared greatly in the counsel
of the Holy ones the Hebrew word translated gods in Psalm 82 is Elohim now most of the time it should be translated as capital G God but sometimes it's plural and Psalm 821 Has both the problem for us is that we think this is a problem for monotheism but it's not we're taught to associate the letters g o and D with a specific set of unique attributes that's why putting an s on the end makes us queasy but but the word Elohim is not about a set of unique attributes the Bible itself tells us that
Elohim is simply a word used to describe a supernatural being it says nothing nothing about attributes that's why the biblical Writers used Elohim for other Spirit beings besides God it's used for the gods of the Nations it's used for demons it's used for Angels uh even the disembodied human de however Yahweh is one of those Elohim and no other Elohim is like him I repeat no other Elohim is like him the Bible describes him in unique ways there is only one of him one of him existing as three persons Father Son and Holy Spirit and
he is the creator of all of Elohim yeah so in Genesis 1 God appoints them to rule over the day and night exactly and then later in the Bible we're told that they were celebrating God's power and creativity when he created the world like the cheering section of a game yeah right there are also stories in the Bible where God invites the Divine Council to participate in making a decision like when they help decide how to bring down the corrupt Israelite King Ahab or in the Book of Job where they debate God's Policy of rewarding
people who do good so they're like God's staff team but why does God need a team if he's powerful enough to create the whole universe he could surely rule it without any help well he doesn't need them but apparently the god of the Bible wants to share Authority with others oh right God shares his rule with human Partners on Earth and so in the same way there's a parallel story of God sharing his authority to rule with spiritual Partners yes that is until it all falls apart in a twin Rebellion so you have humans who
want to rule on Earth on their own terms so they start building their own Nation using their own definitions of Good and Evil yeah the famous story of the building of Babylon but check this out when biblical authors like Moses or Isaiah looked back at the origins of Babylon they saw more than just a human Rebellion but also a spiritual Rebellion what was this Spiritual Rebellion well there were members of the Divine Council who like the humans didn't want to represent God's Authority anymore they wanted to be God and they rebelled and so these created
beings deceived humans into worshiping them in instead of the Creator and so Babylon becomes the biblical image for the combined human and spiritual rebellion and so God scatters the people from Babylon into different nations and in the book of Deuteronomy Moses says this is when God also scattered the rebels of the Divine council with them so the nations are handed over to spiritual rulers yes and this is why when the biblical prophets look out at the violent empires of their day they see two Dimensions to all the chaos and Injustice human Rebels who are being
corrupted by the worship of spiritual Rebels the idle gods of money sex and military power yeah when humans give their allegiance to these Powers it Leads to a world like ours C where the Bible asked you to believe God meets with his Heavenly Host to decide what happens on Earth these beings the gods of the council are spirits not people or Idols Yahweh the god of Israel is an Elohim a spirit being but no other Elohim is him he is one of a kind he is the true God with a capital G he alone is
the perfect Sovereign Creator he is the most high God now Psalm 826 says God has Sons Sons of the most high is the Phrase I have said you are gods and Sons of the most high all of you who are these sons of God it sounds odd what about Jesus Jesus How can there be all these other sons of God sons of God language made sense to ancient people God was King and Kings assigned their sons high ranking jobs in their government so it is in the Unseen realm it's important because the sunship language reminds
us that God wants a family his family extends to both the Unseen World and to Earth and those two families come together in Eden in Genesis one God creates a beautiful ordered reality out of darkness and Disorder so that life can flourish he appoints humans as his representatives to rule over all of it and seven times God calls it good but in Genesis 3 we meet a creature who's in a state of rebellion against his creator we're not told yet why or how he Rebels but he's on a mission to ruin God's good world For
other creatures this thing is trouble yeah this creature is the Bible's first portrait of evil it distorts what God has purposed for good ruining and dragging creation back into darkness and Disorder so the humans join the spiritual Rebel which leads them back into chaos and death and from this point on the human Rebellion is interwoven with a spiritual rebellion and the biblical story shows how this happens over and over again okay so Remember the concept of God's Heavenly staff team the Divine Council or the sons of God in the Hebrew scriptures we're told that some
of these rebelled too when did that happen multiple times actually after the snake comes the rebellion of the sons of God in Genesis 6 we're told that they have sex with women who then give birth to Violent Warrior Giants oh right the Nephilim these are probably the strangest characters in the whole Bible Well Strange from your point of view but ancient readers knew exactly what was going on the ancient kingdoms around Israel claimed to be founded and protected by by Giant Warrior Kings who were part human part God and filled with Divine wisdom ah I
see so the biblical authors are saying hey those Warrior Kings they shouldn't be honored right in this story they're portrayed as human Rebels who are captive to spiritual evil spreading their violence in God's good World yeah one of those kings in Genesis 10 goes on to build the city of Babylon yes Nimrod whose name sounds like the Hebrew word for rebel and his kingdom leads to the next Reb Reon where humans exalt themselves in Babylon so the Divine council worldview is a Biblical perspective that asserts God our creating father purposefully operates within and through the
construct of a council of created Spiritual Beings at various points in The Narrative of Scripture members of God's counsel and other Spiritual Beings Rebel and attempt to lead Humanity towards destruction and death namely we have three initial rebellions within Genesis that account for this chaos the First with the snake in the garden the second with the Unholy Union of the sons of God and Daughters of men in Genesis 6 and lastly with the Tower of Babel this Divine counsil perspective can also be called the Deuteronomy 32 worldview because in Deuteronomy 32 Moses brings context to
the moment at Babel conveying that God our creating father father at this moment actually assigned the Nations to members of his Divine Council who end up failing and leading the Nations into chaos okay pause that was a lot yes let's pause after that fire hose of information about the Divine Council worldview and notice how many dots that it helps us connect throughout the entire Narrative of scripture many of us Have had our Eureka Discovery moment with a Divine Council worldview and the work of Dr Michael Heiser and if you're like me it changed everything especially
how I read the Bible this is why I'm so passionate about sharing this with the world because I know how much light and hope that it can bring and I'm even excited right now because I'm sure there are people watching this video having their own Divine Council worldview Eureka moments right now this video as Its goal is here to show the validity of the Divine counsel and the work of Dr Michael Heiser not to just silence some haters or critics but to help share the good news about what God has done for our world World
our testimonies are very powerful and just like all of us having our own Eureka moments with the work of Heiser and the Divine Council worldview Heiser himself had his own Discovery moment with the Deuteronomy 32 worldview and I want to share that with you I was Shocked to learn how late in heiser's academic career that this Revelation actually came let's listen to Dr Michael heiser's Divine Council worldview testimony together Mike you relate in the book uh the Unseen realm about your experience reading through Psalm 82 talk to us a little bit about that experience yeah
I mean a doctoral student at the University of Wisconsin in Madison um and I was at a church I had another you know fellow there with me who was in the Hebrew Department as well and we were just you know killing some time before church like like we do and I don't I don't remember what the conversation was about but I'll never forget the way it ended he had his Hebrew Bible with him he opened it up to Psalm 82 and he you know didn't shove it at me but he showed it to me he
said you need to read Psalm 82 in Hebrew and and I I I did it's not very difficult you know Hebrew but the the first verse was just kind of Shocking because it said Elohim NL God capital G and it's capital G because nsav is a singular verb form so singular God capital g o d takes his stand in the Divine Council or the Divine assembly and then the next line in the first verse say be of Elohim yhot in the midst of the Gods he passes judgment the second Elohim is plural so you got
Elohim twice in the same verse one is singular the other is plural because of the grammar and I looked at That and I thought well that looks like a Pantheon but again providentially I also had the thought well I bet Jesus knew that verse I bet Paul knew it bet the apostles knew it you know that this was nothing why why should I sort of fear what I'm looking at it is the text of scripture it is what it is and as I as I sort of got drawn into it that became a focus of
my dissertation and you know Journal articles and whatnot and and you Know there's a lot of it in unseen realm I was struck as Ben was saying with the notion that you know it's hard to find evangelicals who will just sort of at this point let the text say what it says you know we we import the idea well the gods here are just men or they're Idols well you know I don't really see any any evidence inp that Idols are in the employ of God or supernatural beings that are in in Rebellion they're not
showing up for for Work you know if it's God you as the boss they're in Rebellion they're distanced uh you know they're they're not you know in his employ anymore and if you go over to Psalm 89 the human explanation just doesn't work Psalm 82:6 you know the speaker whose God says I said all of you your Elohim Sons plural of the most high there's only one most high that's God so sons of God or Elohim you take that to Psalm 89 and the council the assembly there is in the Skies again the last time
I looked at my Bible we don't have a bunch of Jewish guys in the skies you know ruling the nations of the world so you know I was struck with why do we do stuff like this why do we come up with these really odd sort of explanations and the answer goes right back to what Ben was saying we have a little trepidation over how how pop populated the supernatural world really is you know we're we're content to have God Triune God and Jesus And Angels at Angels Angels at Christmas demons I mean Satan has
become a question mark in a lot of you know believing churches and and we draw the line there but you get into a passage like this where we've got Elohim and there again there's just all sorts of nuanced vocabulary not only for the beings of the supernatural world but sort of what they do you know and and their inner relationships and whatnot that it really Sort of forces a question and that is how much of what a Biblical writer believed about the supernatural world am I willing to believe and that's an that's an uncomfortable question
that was an inspiring testimony and shows you the power of the Divine Council worldview and meeting the Bible on its own terms there have been so many of us who have been impacted because of this moment of Discovery in heiser's life think of all The schooling and biblical training that Heiser had before this discovery moment and none of these Concepts were even mentioned I think we can all thank God for this Divine moment of Revelation in heiser's life now let's get back to the subject at hand at clearly conveying the validity of the Divine Council
worldview and the work of Dr Michael Heiser as we stated before many critics of the Divine Council worldview abuse the words of Jesus in John 10 as he quotes Psalm 82 And say that it dismisses the Divine Council worldview and that Jesus when speaking about the sons of God is actually referring to men so let's explore this concept together let's zero in on Jesus's words in John chapter 10 and explore together with Tim Macky and Dr Michael Heiser the context and how Jesus's words actually confirm the Divine Council worldview take it away Mike well I
think to start um what we're talking about of course is John 10 34 and in that verse Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6 now of course I'm well known for Psalm 82 Divine counsel that sort of thing and anyone who's again heard me on interviews or been to the Divine Council website theed Divine council.com or who's read unseen realm or Supernatural knows that you know a straightforward reading in its own original context of Psalm 82 has Divine plurality you have plural Elohim plural Gods plural Divine beings In that passage it's it's a Divine council meeting as the
very first verse tells us and you know the the consensus view though conflicts with that if you pick up any given commentary on the Gospel of John the better ones will at least tell you where the quotation comes from and they'll tell you you know give you two or three different options for how Psalm 82 might be understood one of which of course is that we have a Divine assembly And Spiritual Beings meeting with the god of Israel so on and so forth you you some of the better ones will at least tell you that
but I have yet to find a commentary scholarly commentary on the Gospel of John that says yeah that reading of Psalm 82 the one that makes sense in the Semitic world the one that makes sense to to the Israelites in their world that's how we should read Psalm 82 and then take that to John 10 almost I mean B basically Nobody Does that they will again the good ones will mention it but then they'll say well the the gods here in Psalm 82 are really just people and so we need to remember that when we
go to Jesus quotation of Psalm 82 and John 10:34 and then that becomes sort of the overarching hermeneutic for how John 10 is handled and frankly as as going to I'm going to demonstrate here and as I do demonstrate in the article the conference paper that people can get That approach is just absurd because it does nothing and in fact it undermines other things in the chapter that have Jesus being cast as equal with the father uh and so for Jesus to say hey don't get after me for calling myself the Son of God because
hey doesn't Psalm 82 teach us that that all of us are Gods it's just makes no sense at all now if you're unfamiliar with this passage I think that and this whole topic I think the best way to start out here is to Read most of John 10 at least the the relevant section 171 18 verses because what I'm going to say here what I'm going to try to convince people of is look not only do we have you know Psalm 82 being what it is but we have to understand what Jesus is saying in
verse 34 with what he has said prior to verse 34 and after verse 34 so there's an immediate context issue as well as a an Old Testament Israelite religion context but I think you'll be able to see pretty Quickly how the the sort of the dominant consensus view the default view really just doesn't make any sense and it and it exists it's become the consensus because it conveniently allows people to not talk about Divine plurality so here we go in John 10 beginning in vers vers 22 we read this is the ESV at that time
the Feast of dedication took place at Jerusalem it was Winter and Jesus was walking in the temple in the colonade of Solomon so the Jews gathered around him And said to him how long will you keep us in suspense if you are the Christ tell us plainly Jesus answered them I told you and you do not believe the works that I do in my father's name bear witness about me but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me I give
them eternal life and they shall never perish and no one shall snatch them out of my hand my father who Has given them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the father's hand I and the father are one that's John 10:30 so we keep going in the passage verse 31 the Jews picked up stones again to Stone him so as soon as he says I and my father are one they just consider that blasphemy they pick up stones again to Stone him Jesus answered them I have
shown you many good works from the father for which of them are you going To Stone me the Jews answered him it is not for good work that we are going to Stone you but for blasphemy because you being a man make yourself God Jesus answered Themis it not written in your law and this is verse 34 this is where the quotation comes is it not written in your law I said you are Gods if he called them Gods to whom the word of God came and scripture cannot be broken do you say of him
whom the father consecrated and sent into the world you Are blaspheming because I said I am the Son of God if I am not doing the works of my father then do not believe me but if I do them even though you do not believe me believe the works that you may know and understand that the father is in me and I am in the father again they sought to arrest him but he escaped from their hands now that's the whole episode John 10: 22 through 39 and right in verse 34 you know sandwiched right
in the middle There we get this quotation of Jesus he quotes Psalm 82:6 in defense of his claim to make himself God I am the father or one in verse 30 and then later in verse 38 the father is in me and I am in the father so the question is you know Jesus identifies himself with the father in verse 30 and the Jews consider that statement blasphemy but when what they hear is Jesus making himself equal with God that's verse 33 says that very Plainly and then Jesus defends himself with a quotation from Psalm
82:6 so the question is how does the quotation work what is it about the quotation that you know Jesus uses it as a proof text again to defend his teaching about himself so we need to understand it in such a way that his use of it makes sense so how does it make sense what do he doing what what is he thinking again every commentary every John commentary I've ever seen interprets the statement and of course going back to Psalm 82 where which is its source it interprets the statement in the psalm to be speaking
of humans Jewish Elders Israelites maybe you know at sin or something like that mere mortals and since they look at Psalm 82 that way and Jesus quotes the psalm they more or less have to say well Jesus is is quoting this this verse here and he's trying to get them to to sort of cool Down and and say Hey you know God uses this language of of humans elsewhere and and he uses it of us you know Jews so don't get bent out of shape again that makes no sense as a proof text for defending
the idea that he and the father were one and so this is what we need to look at now again at the risk of belaboring the point here whatever interpretation you have of this quotation of Psalm 82 it needs to reinforce Jesus Claims in verse 10 and verse or excuse me John 10:30 verse3 and verse 38 because the quotation is sandwiched between two statements that equate Jesus with God so whatever your interpretation of of Jesus quot here is here it has to reinforce those points otherwise it contradicts them so that's the first thing we need
to really sort of pack into our brains and as I go through uh the options what I'm going to do here is I'm going to go through the way again The consensus View and show you know kind of what it's based on and why it it just doesn't make any sense but but I think if you just sort of Master this one point whatever the quotation in John 10:34 means it needs to be consistent with John 10:30 and John 10:38 if you just pack that away you're going to see pretty quickly that the consensus view
just doesn't make any sense at all it undermines Jesus claims to deity Elsewhere in in the chapter in the passage so let's start off here by talking about the Mortal view again what I'll just call you know for General's sake the Mortal View and there's really two versions of this again mortal VI means that oh yeah we know where the quotation comes from it's Psalm 82:6 there's no debate there so when we go back to Psalm 82 the Mortal view is that the gods here in Psalm 82 that the psalmist is talking about are just
People they're mere mortals they're mortal men and there are two variations of this uh people will say Well they're just sort of Jewish Elders Jewish leaders in the in the community or they could be Israelites you know more broadly speaking but but even more specifically the Israelites that were at sin receiving the law and then therefore by extension since the law was received by the whole nation the community Psalm 82 is just calling Israelites in general Gods so those are two variations of what we'll call the Mortal View and again to refresh your your memory
the the the verse 34 goes like this John 10:34 Jesus answered them is it not written in your law I said you are gods and if he called them Gods to whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken then do you say of him whom the father consecrated and sent into the world you're blaspheming because I said I'm the Son of God so Jesus clearly uses it To defend himself so we have this reference even though it says in your law there are other places in the Old Testament and in the
way the Old Testament is cited by the new where Torah law referred more broadly just to the Bible okay the the Sacred Scriptures uh we know again where the the quotation comes from it it's it's word for word again using the septu agent right out of Psalm 82 so that's Not going to be an issue the issue is again what what is a phrase like to whom the word of God came it mean uh because you know if if you're thinking that the gods here are people then the know the phrases that sort of surrounded
are going to become important for asking asking and answering the question well which people are we talking about because again if you if you just think about what you know about Psalm 82 God stands in the Divine Council in the Midst of the Elohim he passes judgment and the Elohim are getting judged again for corrupt Administration for not being ethical for being oppressive and abusive blah blah blah blah blah and then they're called in verse six Sons of the most high this is the the verse Jesus quotes I said all of you Gods but you're
going to die like men I mean you look at that and say well it's obvious that they aren't men I mean they're going to die like men God is meeting them in a in in A council and if you go to Psalm 89 the very same language sons of God Elohim Council assembly Psalm 89 has it in the clouds in the skies this is this is in the spiritual realm well the people who make this argument from Exodus 18 they'll never show you Psalm 89 they'll never consider it they immediately just go back to Exodus
18 because look their their job what what they want to do and I know this is going to sound harsh but it's true I haven't spent 15 years in This material and not discovered this the task of many interpreters is to avoid Divine plurality in the Bible that it it's just that simple they think it it it in you know affects monotheism they think you know it it creates polytheism in Israelite thinking even the biblical writers they just don't want to go there and so this is an escape valve this is a convenient way to
dismiss the question Psalm 82 is it it's a reflection on that the mirror of Heavenly and Earthly rulers and so Psalm 82 just comes out of the gate and says yeah God takes place it's like a day in the Heavenly courtroom he comes and takes a seat in the Divine councel in the midst of the Elohim he renders judgment so God's ticked about how the sons of God are participating in the cosmic Rebellion in Psalm 82 God showing up and he's saying like no more this is done for so he says that the sons of
God the cosmic Rebels be a good man name Cosmic Rebels are foolish they don't have knowledge and so what God says is you know what I made you Elohim I said you are Elohim y'all are sons of the most high but nevertheless you are going to die like Mortals and fall like in Hebrew like one of the princes there's one princely son of Elohim that has fallen and the rest of you are going to fall fall like that one and then look at the last one arise oh God judge the Earth because what is God
after in the whole story line of the Bible bring everyone back to inherit all not just one people group in order to do that he actually has to take care of that's right these that's exactly right Cosmic Rebels re Psalm 82 is crucially important it's essentially the same story line as Daniel 7 of God judging the beasts the beastly rulers of Heaven and Earth and installing one on the Divine Throne next To him okay that's Psalm 82 that's Psalm 82 Jesus in John 10 and Jesus really cared about Psalm 82 yeah he quotes from it
in John chapter 10 we going to go with the new American Standard he just finishes up a light conversation claiming as a culmination to what came before I and the father are one so drop that one at a party and uh people will stare at you so people pick up Stones they didn't like that I am the father of one yeah so um Jesus is like what I Healed a blind man you're G to kill me right for doing good works from the father no no no it's because of blasphemy you're a mortal and you're
making yourself out to be God as God and Jesus said have you ever read the Bible and he says is it written your Torah but then he quotes from the Psalms so this is interesting actually in this period this happens a lot in the New Testament that the apostles and Jesus will use the word Torah to refer To the whole Hebrew Bible Jesus does it multiple times what's that call theonomy get these wrong the part for the whole yeah the part for the whole so the Torah is the first part of the scripture because clearly
he's saying isn't it written in the Torah and he quotes from the Psalms yeah so isn't it written in the scriptures and he quotes Psalm 82 I said you are God yep now if God called Elohim or in Greek those to whom the word of God came And scriptures reliable why do you do you say of the one whom the father has Sanctified that is set apart as holy and sent into the world you're blaspheming because I say I am the Son of God is everybody clear so wait his logic is because Psalm 82 yeah
there are other Elohim yeah then that's right why can't Jesus be one is that's his logic so he's just been called out you are making yourself as God yeah and I and the father are one yeah so Whatever his appeal to Psalm 82 it's bolstering that claim that he just made and he's about to make it again I am in the father and the father is in me so his appeal to Psalm 82 is an argument to say listen I'm not blaspheming and I'm not crazy so he's appealing to Psalm 82 to say listen there
are beings that God can call his sons that are higher than humans and they're legitimately called the Sons of Elohim it's the conversation we just had earlier yeah right there's a Category for the Divine counsil yeah sons of Elohim and no one would have argued with that totally yeah that's exactly right that's his point so if you all acknowledge in your Bible that there are members of the spiritual being category yeah then why is it so crazy that I am claiming that I am a human who's completely one with Elohim that's his argument his argument
yes it's still crazy yeah but his point is that if you read the Hebrew Bible you have shelf Space yeah for beings that aren't just mortal and for beings that share in characteristics of God's Heavenly being yeah but that aren't the one true God and what's crazy about these sons of God that they also are Spirit beings but in the Bible they show up physically sometimes yeah that's right to finish responding to Ryan's point so many people think that the Elohim in Psalm 82 are humans being called Elohim and you can actually see this in
the new International excuse me The New American Standard Version they just use the word rulers in the place of Elohim right that obscures that it's the word Elohim yeah right that's normally God's yeah so that has led many people to think that in John chapter 10 um Jesus is appealing to Psalm 82 as if uh he's saying that Psalm 82 is talking about humans but the ones to whom the word of God comes in Psalm 82 are Elohim so there aren't any clear examples of humans being called Elohim In the Hebrew Bible this is so
nerdy but in um in the book of Exodus there's a law that says Hey listen when a thief gets caught in ancient Israel uh and you want to hold him to account then bring him before the New American Standard has the judges and then they tell you in a footnote oh actually or God yeah you're like oh big difference that seems like a really big difference yeah can you guess what the Hebrew word is Elohim Elohim yes so uh the English Standard Version the thief is found he shall come near to God MH Elohim there
are some people who think that this is so clearly talking about bring him before a so the not capital G God but the sons of God that's right well but for the Israelites to come to God in Exodus 22 is to go to to go to the Tabernacle to go to the tent with Moses and numerous places actually here I'll just show you one just because Ryan ccraft I'm sure You're going to appreciate this check out Deuteronomy 1916 if a malicious witness arises to accuse a person of wrongdoing both parties of the dispute shall appear
before the Lord namely before the priests and before the judges so here's a case where somebody's accused of something and they are brought before Elohim right Yahweh who's an Elohim and then when I want to make clear that I also mean the human judges you just name Them are you with me so in Exodus 22 the fact that the human judges aren't mentioned as significant when you're bringing your case before judges appointed by God you're bringing it before God yeah that's the idea and so people who want to make an argument that Exodus 22 is
a use of humans being called Elohim is just a bad argument you just don't want to do that but the deeper question is well if Jesus was thinking this how does this help him Defend himself as being equal with God because that is exactly how the Jews read him I and the father are one the father is in me and I am in the Father John 10 30 and John 10:38 the quotation of Psalm 826 is sandwiched right in the middle and it's Jesus proof text to defend himself against blasphemy and also to defend the
idea to validate what he has he has just said that I and the father are one how does this this human option do that well I get to call myself the Son of God and the sons of God in Psalm 826 or Elohim just like you guys do we're all just one big happy family you know break out the Barney song okay it just it doesn't make any sense to have Jesus saying cool off boys the language I'm using about myself you could use about yourself too it just doesn't make sense okay well let's go
to Psalm 821 God has taken his place in the Divine Council in the midst of the Gods In the midst of the Elohim he holds judgment so he's having a meeting with other Elohim and then in verses 2 to5 he just starts railing on them just railing on them and then in verse six you know we get to our quotation verse I said you are Gods sons of the most high all of you nevertheless like men you're going to die and fall like any Prince so here's the question to whom does the word of God
come in Psalm 82 it comes to the gods it doesn't come To Israelites at si in other words just read the passage for what it says the gods are being addressed in the Divine Council Psalm 82 verse1 gives you the setting it doesn't say that the setting is Sinai okay Psalm 821 gives you the setting it's the Divine counsil and of course we go to Psalm 89 and lots of other passages the Divine Council refers to you know God's headquarters God's meeting place in the spiritual world World it has nothing to do with giving two
tablets to the to Moses or to the Israelites at SI it's very clear to whom the word of God came in Psalm 82 the answer is the gods it's not the Israelites somehow people want to argue that the gods of salon2 are just human and they do it to escape Divine plurality in the Hebrew Bible that's just point blank what's going on here and then they import that to Psalm 82 it's unfortunate because it it Produces an interpretation of Jesus quotation that undermines his claims to deity in the same chapter and that's my objection to
it it makes Jesus look like a poor utilizer of scripture really even inept or it makes Jesus look like he's backing away a little bit from I and the father are one I got news for you Jesus isn't backing away from the claim at all because in verse 38 he follows it by saying the father is in me and I am in The father he is not backing away from anything now let's make a transition here and say okay well if that's not what it means what does it mean my answer you know what what
is Jesus doing by side in the verse my answer is he's defending his deity that's what he's doing so what if we look at 82 the way we should look at it we take the Divine view again that the the Elohim of Psalm 82 that that are getting railed against are Gods they're Spiritual Beings again Elohim has nothing to do with a specific set of unique attributes we do not have polytheism here so what if we have that as our view and then we take the Divine view back to John 10 then what do we
get okay what do we get then so we have the statement in verse 30 I and the father are one the Jews picked up stones again to Stone him Jesus answered them I have shown you many good works from the father for which of them are you going to Stone me being a little sarcastic There have to admire Jes is for that the Jews answered him it is not for a good work that we're going to Stone you but for blasphemy because you being a man make yourself God again that that is how they read
the statement Jesus answered them is it not written in your law I said you are Gods if he called them Gods to whom the word of God came and of course the word of God came to the Elohim and scripture cannot be broken do you Say of him whom the father consecrated and sent into the world you're blaspheming because I said I'm the Son of God if I'm not doing the works of my father then don't believe me but if I do them even though you don't believe me believe the works that you may know
and understand know and understand that the father is in me and I am in the father and catch the last verse again they sought to arrest him see they know he's defending his original Claims and he's using Psalm 82 to do it and it torqus them off so they're angry at Jesus for claiming equality with God and using Psalm 82 to do it now Jews of course are going to hear the word father in verse 30 and of course later on in verse 38 when Jesus says I am the father are one they know that
he is claiming Divine parentage okay that's very clear to them and they don't like it he is therefore follow follow my thinking here Jesus says I and the father are one he's Not talking about I'm an Israelite and we're all sons of God that is not how the Jews read it they consider it blasphemy he is claiming Divine parentage he is therefore claiming to be divine to be more than mortal and in that sense Divinity he is claiming to be the same as God he is not just a mere man like them he is claiming
to be more than man so he's not saying I'm just like you guys or you're just like me we're all Elohim we're all one happy family okay he's not doing that instead he's reminding his Jewish opponents that the scriptures their own law and then he quotes Psalm 82 he's saying hey look there's this Psalm out there Psalm 82 that actually does teach the idea that there are Divine Sons of God there are Divine beings who have God as their father Divine parentage God has more Sons than just Humans mankind humankind yeah we're all sons of
God like Paul says you know you because everybody God created all of all of humanity and okay we get that that is not what Jesus is affirming he he's saying look there's this PSAL back there that affirms the my contention you know this is where he starts his defense that confirms the idea that there are Divine beings out there plural that are not just Mortals that Are the sons of God and again they're equal in the sense that they're all they're Spirit beings they are not human they are not mere humans they're not that that's
not what they really are what they really are is non-human Divine so that's the first sort of Step the first thing that you can get out of what what Jesus is going to be doing here with Psalm 82 he is affirming the Divine view of Psalm 82 he's not Affirming a human view of it and he's going to use it to his Advantage now his claim again to be divine This Is Where It Starts has precedent again in the old test if God has Divine Sons then those sons are Divine they're not human Jesus says
okay that's step number one point number one God is my father I'm claiming Divine parentage therefore Ergo I'm not like you guys I'm Divine you're not okay all right Point number one now If that weren't true think about what the what the rest of John 10 says Jesus says look if you don't believe me believe the works believe the works that I do in the father's name that the father has sent me to do the works of the father is a phrase that means this is stuff only God can do or at the very least
only a Divine being could do humans don't do the stuff that you're watching me do and you know It you know it so if you don't want to believe my words believe the works that I do and so this is his toe hold into Psalm 82 and then he UPS the anti he adds this thought in verse 38 believe the works because the works prove that I am more than a man I am more than mortal I am not just like you when I say I am the father are one I'm claiming Divine parentage I
am more than a human but believe my works so that you may know Verse 38 and understand that the father is in me and I I am in the father in other words it's not just that I'm Divine and there's Old Testament precedent for that thought fellas go look up Psalm 82:6 you do he not knowing the scriptures but it's more than that the father and I are ontologically inseparable the father is in me and I am in the father you can't have one and not Have the other I and the father are one the
Jews get mad they're going to Stone Jesus he says' look fellas Psalm 82 teaches you that Yahweh does have sons okay he has Sons so this whole thing about me being the Son of God and you being offended because that makes I'm you think I'm saying I'm equal with the father hey whatever because there's Old Testament precedent that Yahweh is father to Non-human beings to Supernatural Spiritual Beings are not mortal humans not mortal men and and and I'm using that term and that theology is justifiable because Psalm 82 says it and it refers to those
beings as Elohim okay so that's the first part of your problem you don't understand psm2 and if you didn't get the point you know let's go one step further not only does Psalm 82 serve as a good proof text for me saying I can claim to be more than a Man not only does Psalm 82 allow me to say that but here's another thought the father is in me and I in the father we are ontologically inseparable you cannot have one without the other just as in the Old Testament you can't have the angel of
the Lord you can't have this special Angel without Yahweh God being in him because that's what made him different so when Jesus uses this language he is saying take a close look I'm God in human form I am not only an An Elohim I am not only a spirit being I'm I'm not only claiming Divine parentage and I'm using Psalm 82 to show you that there is such a thing Divine parentage of beings that are not human there is such a thing it's it's right there in your Bible but I'm not only saying that I'm
saying I'm also the lord of the counsil because God is the lord of the council the father is the lord of the council and the father is in me now that Took their minds back to clear unambiguous Old Testament theology unlike the human view where you have to impose contexts to get rid of Old Testament theology okay you have to impose contexts to avoid the supernatural worldview of the Israelites unlike that if you're thinking this kind of theological thought that Jesus is is is thinking and you're using Psalm 82 to Establish your Divinity and then
you go one step further and say I'm the father because the father is in me I am God in human form and you know where this language comes from guys read Exodus 23 you know what I'm saying that is the only view that produces the predictable response and it's the response in John 10 they sought to arrest him again earlier they wanted to Stone him now they're trying to arrest him you know for the same reason they want to get rid Of him the human view doesn't make sense of any of that at all their
reaction looks like a ridiculous absurd overreaction it's not they understand what he's saying the problem is that we don't the problem is that again we have common ators we have pastors we have other teachers that either don't understand the material or they don't want to tread into Waters of things like Divine plurality and you The Listener pay the price for that okay You're the one that gets misled theologically to to really see the richness of what John is getting at here in John 10 and how Jesus defends his deity in this chapter you never get
it because your attention is deflected away from it so as we have seen together interpreting the sons of God in Psalm 82 as mere mortal humans makes no logical or biblical sense either the case that Jesus is simply referring to humans when quoting Psalm 82 just doesn't hold water we don't even have to make a defense it is literally the words of Jesus that defend the work of Michael Heiser and the Divine Council worldview and will silence all of the critics now as as we close let's turn to how all this fits in with our
King Jesus as we will see it's not only Jesus quotation of Psalm 82 that links him to the Salvation and rescuing of us from these Divine Rebels as we will see it's not only Jesus's quotation of Psalm 82 That links him to this Divine councel worldview but also his entire life and Mission is connected to resolving this conflict from these rebellions that started at the very beginning let's all turn together to the hope that we have in our King Jesus Jesus and the apostles so assume the Divine counsel and like once you see it and
how they think and talk and write it's everywhere you can't unsee it and so it's clear that for them it's the exact opposite is true belief In a populated spiritual world it's a mirror of the populated Earthly world for them that makes even more clear Jesus's identity as the son the ultim son of Elohim for the apostles it actually clarifies that Jesus isn't a creature but is actually one with the Creator in the history of Christian Orthodoxy where groups have gone off the rails and identified Jesus as one of the sons of Elohim alongside the
other sons of Elohim what it usually is is it's Somewhere in the European Western tradition people just misunderstanding all of this Divine counsil language in the Bible MH it's so it's not that the concept of the Divine council is what is leading people down the wrong path it's just that we don't have room for it in our worldview and so we have no idea what these authors are talking about God rescued the Israelites from Egypt and its Gods he invited them to become his Covenant partners and learn a different Way of ruling the world and
they agree to it but in the end they don't honor the partnership they give their allegiance to other gods and so this leads to their Exile in Babylon where they become slaves once again to a foreign nation and their spiritual rulers awaiting a new Exodus into freedom and this is where the story of Jesus picks up he said he was here to rescue the world and take it back from the rebels which Rebels the human ones Or the spiritual ones exactly for Jesus it was all connected when he marched into Jerusalem for Passover he was
announcing the ultimate Exodus he was there to confront and overcome all Rebel powers and authorities and he did it by giving up his life so this is what the Apostle Paul meant when he said that Jesus disarmed the powers and authorities triumphing over them by the cross yes Jesus condemned our Evil by allowing the rebels to unleash all their Hate and Evil on him but then he overcame it with the power of his love and Resurrection Life and then Jesus told his followers that all authority in heaven and earth now belongs to him yeah the
ultimate human and divine partner this is really good news yeah yeah and it's why the apostles started inviting everyone to give their allegiance to the Risen Jesus to discover freedom and a new way to be human now while Jesus gained a decisive victory over the rebel Powers he didn't destroy them they're still around causing problems yes and in fact they are the problem the apostles said that Humanity's Real Enemy is never another human rather it's the spiritual powers that animate our cultural Idols that Inspire hatred Division and violence so when I see people hurting other
people behind it is the Divine counsil gone Rogue how do you deal with this kind of enemy well the Apostle Paul said we can resist by putting on the Character traits of Jesus like armor faithfulness Justice and peace and he said that our only weapon is the word of God that is the biblical story of good news that Jesus has overcome all Rebels with the divine power of his life and love I I I sincer want to convince Christians I feel like I'm a missionary to the church but I want to convince Christians to read
scripture in its own original context not any particular modern context or denominational context And if you do that you have the Israelite living in your head when you read the Old Testament first century Jew living in your head when you read the New Testament you will be able to understand the connectivity Across The Testament so much better and if you're willing to read it as someone predisposed to Supernatural characters and events you know just a supernatural worldview you will get so much more out of your Bible and I didn't arrive at that academically I had
to be provoked um into jumping in there while I was a while I was a doctoral student but that's kind of what I'm known for now and I've I'm unrepentant you know it's you know you lose friends you lose job opportunities you lose Ministry opportunities but it's a real simple formula the Bible wasn't written to us it was written for us but its writers and its original readers Just didn't think like us so what can we do to try to think like them and explore scripture so that that's really what what floats the boat here
trying to get good content to the anybody who cares where there's nothing in unseen realm this is what makes the book different there is nothing in unseen Realm that isn't based on peer-reviewed scholarship and that I have not or would not take to an academic conference or a classroom and Defend I've done it many plenty of times okay this is again we're getting into the meat of the word here we're getting out of the milk we're getting into the meat this is the kind of stuff that God wants you to know again but you're not
going to be able to know it if you don't have the Israelite in your head and you're not allowing scripture to you're not allowing the supernatural world view of the Bible to remain intact and this is a Really really good test case for it well I hope you enjoyed that episode we can resoundingly say that Supernatural powers are real uh the Bible teaches us that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but these evil Supernatural powers and they've been there from the very beginning in the garden but we as humans want to separate them out
from us we want the immaterial world uh to be separate from our human Earthly world when actually the Bible teaches us that They're much more connected and that's the story that we get from the very beginning in the garden but the victory that we have in Jesus is the defeat over these Supernatural evil Powers Jesus has given us Victory so now as we move forward if we have a supernatural encounter yes we need to take that moment uh cast out that Spirit to speak truth into light and to let the enemy know that we have
Victory in Jesus true spiritual warfare is us sharing the good News about what Jesus has done in this world true spiritual warfare is for you caring for a homeless man and buying him a meal true spiritual warfare is you laying down that Grudge and calling that loved one true spiritual warfare is spreading the good news about Jesus being king of the world so is Supernatural evil real you bet it is but our goal hasn't changed our goal is still here to spread the good news about what Jesus has done for our world and You can
help us do that by liking sharing subscribing to the channel and helping us get this message out you you can't let let your past your self-perception get in the way of of God and his love it says while we were yet sinners while we were enemies okay God loved us so I think that's a huge hurdle for a lot of people um they they imagine themselves as somebody unlovable uh because of one thing or a Whole pattern in life and it's it's it's it's as though when he when God looks at you he sees is
his son [Music]
