The Sounds True Podcast Network. Look, labels can uh stifle us and box us in and they can also set us free. I look at it like, you know, this is probably my autistic wiring. I'm like, "Oh, there's uh certain sets of behavior and and uh you know, ways of seeing that um somebody with my wiring has." So, it's really helpful for me to learn about that. Welcome to Being Open Spirituality and the Neurode Divergent Mind, a special insights at the edge series. My guest is Sarah Taylor, an awakening trail guide and intuitive energy healer who
specializes in working with people who identify as neurodeivergent and highly sensitive. Sarah Taylor is an award-winning actor and standup comedian who started meditating in order to manage her own anxiety and stage fright. And then the experience of meditation opened her to a series of spiritual awakenings. In her 50s, she discovered a lifechanging insight that she herself is neurode divergent. She describes herself as being autistic and having ADHD and how this discovery has been so important. Sarah, you say, and I want to start here, welcome. that discovering your neurode divergence was as big a deal in
your life as the spiritual awakening process that you went through. And I thought really h how is this how could why was it such a big deal for you? almost as big almost as I mean there what what can be you know more profound than realizing like you're not separate uh from reality um and and awakening um but it felt like a really important piece to the awakening journey which I find is never ending you know post awakening there is continued embodiment and and and the truth that we see about ourselves and and I've always
been a seeker of truth truth. So, learning this about myself just made made my life uh make sense. >> Tell me more about that. How how did it make your life make sense? >> Well, I understood relationships more. I understood my difficulties growing up. Um I used to have meltdowns. Uh seams on my socks or tags or brushing my hair, huge meltdowns. And I sort of took on this identity as a very young child of being bratty or difficult. Um, and certainly my family probably saw me that way, but I was overstimulated, you know. Um,
I was a bit of a weird kid, you know, playing by myself and um, feeling very awkward about how to learn how to do this human being thing. And it and it kind of made sense that the dots started connecting. And you know, I I feel that neurode divergent people are wired for awakening. So I also just began really remembering how open and porous and sensitive I really was as a child. Um and that I had to kind of start shutting it down and and awakening was a process of remembering of of opening something again
that was already open. Um and it just it just made sense. Suddenly things made sense in a way that um they hadn't before. Now at one point I did a series called waking up. What does it really mean? And I interviewed 23 people about spiritual awakening. And I want to add you now to the numbers of people that I I've asked this question to which is tell me what spiritual awakening means to you. Spiritual awakening is waking up from the sense of a separate self and waking up to the nature of reality, the ground of
our being that there's just one thing happening. It's all source, God, Brahman, true nature. Um, and so this can happen in stages. You know, people start to see through uh the sense of self that they're maybe something more vast. They're boundless awareness. They're the witness. They're pure consciousness. And then that that moves into the heart. You know, that's kind of a head awakening. It moves into the heart and seeing the non-dual nature of of reality that I I'm you Tammy and you're me and I'm the tree outside my window and I am everything and everything
is me. It's the the one taste as they say in Zukchen. So, so that's what I see awakening as. But it's not only punctuated by vivid moments of realization, but it's also a gradual process for everybody who embarks on this journey. Now, when you say neurodeivergent people are wired for awakening, tell me more about that and how you see that. And when you say wired, you mean our brain patterning or what what do you mean by that? >> Yeah. Um, our system is very porous, very open. You know, as a kid, I I knew what
my mom was thinking. I knew uh that there was more in the room with people than than what they were presenting. So, I could see through layers and see through these um things that I was told were the way things are. And so that's really helpful for a seeker on the spiritual path to be penetrating truth. Um but there is an openness, a porousness that I think neurode divergent people, especially like late diagnosed um autistics and ADHDers tend to cover up this sensitivity from a young age. And often like a lot of the people I
work with are so sensitive and all they needed was a bit of meditation or they got on the right path for them. and something popped for them and and they're they're they feel so naked and so raw and um you know sometimes with holistic people it's it's a little more of a process to sort of poke through and see that you know you're you're actually something beneath the sense of self that you take yourself to be and that others see. I I think that neurode divergent and sensitive people are they're like right there. It's a
hair's breath away. What I find is it's the integration of spiritual insights. It's the healing. It's the integration. It's embodiment. It's it's connecting to the body. A lot of neurode divergent people aren't really connected to their body. I was completely clumsy and didn't really feel like I had a body and then learned how to like be in it, you know. So, um, so I think there's some sort of spiritual dimension that's that's that's poking through, shining through underneath the surface. I could be wrong, but, you know, it's, uh, I think more people are starting to
talk about this, too. Now, here's a question. It's it's going to sound a little bit like I'm talking in a circle, but I know you're going to be able to follow me here, Sarah, which is, >> yeah, hit me. I've heard it described and in my own experience as well have felt that with deep I might just call them not even use a word like awakening but transformational experiences I feel rewired by the experience. Yes. >> Meaning I don't see and process the world the same way after the experience than before. There's a different kind
of processing happening. Openness. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So that changes people these experiences. So you're describing ways in which you connected dots that you were actually neurodeivergent from a young age. So my question is does our inherent neurode divergence from a very young age make us more open to these experiences or did these experiences change your wiring in such a way that you became no longer neurotypical because you were so changed by the experiences. >> I get what you're saying. I think Yeah. >> Wonderful. Well, that's a start there. We're we're we are connecting there. Yes.
>> Years you've been doing this. It's like >> I know but still it's so hard you know. >> No, it's really hard to put it into words. Um but um you know I think what is neurode divergence anyway? A lot of people will probably ask that listening to this. Um once there's been a profound seeing an insight, a realization there is a rewiring of of our of our brains. Um so perhaps people who who have undergone some sort of inner transformation are neurode divergent. Um I think for a lot of late diagnosed or late realized
neurode divergent people it's going back to um early childhood and seeing that these things the certain traits of autism or ADHD were present. Um, and then you know what what does that mean then after an insight, after a realization, after awakening? I mean, does it even matter? Uh, you know, I I did wonder that like, you know, what's what's the big deal? I've been on a journey of sort of peeling back the layers of who I am over the years. Anyway, so this is just one more one more thing that I'm seeing. Um, but you
know, as I was telling you, I I I I just somehow knew that I was going to be talking about this, so I sought out a diagnosis. Um, but um, but yeah, I think tell us about tell us about that journey. First of all, what was going on inside of you that made you seek a diagnosis? And then learning about the diagnosis, how did that help you connect specifically the dots in your life both? >> Yeah. Um, I think for me at this point where I was looking back on my life and wanting a little
bit of clarity or looking at my current life was as far as burnouts go. And uh, burnouts are something that happen to a neurode divergent person because, you know, we're not necessarily set up to function in a world that demands certain things. being um so porous, so open and getting overstimulated quite easily. Uh we might need more rest, we need breaks, we need to move our body. Um, I was having these throughout my life, um, these burnouts where I would go go and function as, you know, a normal person of society, normal, and then just
reach hit a wall where I just I could barely function. And some of these burnouts lasted several years. Now with the spiritual path and how it began unfolding these awakenings, these realizations everything became much smoother, right? So there weren't these burnout, these long periods of time because there was a natural unmasking that was happening post realization, post awakening of all these adaptations falling away, right? That happens with spiritual realization. and we see through that sense of self we thought we were and all the adaptations uh to get by in the world and to be a
separate entity start start dissolving more and more and more. So, so what was left was me sort of still kind of being awkward in social situations. Um, having some sort of um the way I sort importance of things. I mean, of course, post awakening it all be, you know, became kind of one thing. Um, noticing executive dysfunctions. I mean, just getting out of the house, it's always been difficult for me. um the burnout, the way I engage in relationships, you know, there was something kind of nagging. I had had like a a weird social interaction
with a friend and and I came home and I just heard this voice say, "You're autistic." And I was like, "Oh, maybe that's it." Because there was still something. I mean post awakening there you know there is this as they say the peace that passes all understanding right there's that core of equinimity that couldn't be touched no matter what was going on but yet I became more sensitive and what was really happening was the layers were just falling I wasn't adapting I was just like more and more and more sensitive over the years so I
bec became like the princess and the pee walking this razor's edge of like, you know, like you'd feel it like kind of rubbing up against a situation or um sensory input would just feel like too much. And I began to think, is this an awakening thing? Is this because, you know, there's been a profound seeing that I'm this sensitive now? Like, what's going on? But really what I've learned it's it's it's just been the continual unmasking of the adaptation strategies which were covering up the fact that I have neurode divergent wiring. >> You know, one
thing I'd love to ask you as someone who I've been coming more into acknowledging a high level of sensitivity, one of the things I've become aware of is when is that just truly what's happening? Okay, that's interesting. And do I use that ever in situations to uh get sympathy from people or even manipulate a situation? I'm very sensitive. You know, I've noticed when I start talking about my own sensitivity, I'm like, I don't know if I really want to talk about this to people. Like maybe I should just keep it to myself. So I'm curious
what I know you work with a lot of sensitive people. what your counsel is for people who identify with this high level of raw sensitivity to be really clean about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think we have to get honest with oursel first. And so it almost doesn't matter if nobody else understands or we don't necessarily have to explain it to anyone. But we have to sort of um drop the shame and the should around acknowledging that like you know what this situation is too much for my nervous system right now. I'm overstimulated. This
is this scent is way too much. Um, so to get honest with yourself about it, about, you know, just owning owning that this is this is a truth for you. And I do notice that a lot of people have some sort of um shame around it or feeling like we should be different. We should just like suck it up and put on our big girl panties and just deal with it. It's life, you know, which leads to burnout and it leads to overstimulation. And you know, who knows, you might become a little more reactive in
a situation, you know, with a loved one as a result because you're you're overstimulated. So, um, so yeah. So, well, it's good that you notice that you're sensitive, >> right? But I hear what you're saying is is really first of all, just starting with telling yourself the truth about what's going on in your experience. Now, you use this phrase in describing yourself as discovering that you uh were a high masking >> neurode divergent woman. Tell me what you mean by masking and what the masking behaviors were that you identified you'd taken on. >> Yeah. Yeah.
Masking can sound like it's, you know, putting on a facade or something about identity, but it it's really just masking these traits. um so that we don't um feel ostracized, so that we can be included, so that we can live a full life. Um so I mean, you know, I was in the stand-up comedy scene and um you know, I just my discomfort with a lot of overstimulation in it would just get masked because it was like, well, this is what you do. This is what you do. And then I would I would I would
burn out. So it's it's masking our natural sensitivities. It's masking our natural rhythms. You know, sensitive and neurode divergent people have have rhythms that might be different from, you know, neurotypical people. Um masking our wants and our needs, how we really feel about something, you know, speaking up our authentic expression, just being authentic. And you know, as you know, neurode divergent people, we tend to get told that we said the wrong thing or we didn't quite do the thing the right way. And um so there's years of sort of layers that build up of, oh
yeah, right, you don't do that in a social situation or oh right, you don't say that in a conversation or you or you don't bring that up. Um so these are all ways that people can mask or stmming. You know, a lot of neurode divergent people have a lot of energy running through their system and um you know there's there's I'm sure you've heard of stmming which is just moving the body and you know we go to a meditation retreat and we're told like be completely still and I would feel all this energy moving moving
through me. So, you know, at times throughout my life, whether I was in the meditation zeno or, you know, at a meeting or whatever, I was suppressing this desire to maybe move um and sort of disperse that energy. So, um making eye contact um neurode divergent, especially autistic people, um you know, when I look into somebody's eyes, I get so much information about the person. That's like a really intense experience. So, I masked that natural desire to look away or, you know, um, not make direct eye contact um, by learning how to make direct eye
contact. So, I'm masking my natural rhythm is is to is to look away in a conversation. Although right now is fine. You have great hair. >> Thank you. I like your glasses. And I like actually looking into your eyes as well. I hope that's okay. Now, I never heard of stmming before, so that's new to me. So, are you saying that the masking is keeping our body frozen when our natural instinct is to let let the energy move? What does this word stmming come from? >> It's it means self stimulation. Um, so people just call
it call it stmming. You can use fidget toys. You can, you know, move your move your hands, move your I and I think I, you know, as a child, I had a lot of like flapping my hands and moving and I had little ticks and, you know, things that I would do. And I learned how to be more still. Um, which isn't a bad thing on on one level, right? If you're, you know, working with a Zen master again. But um it it's we have to kind of look at like am I suppressing something? Am
I suppressing something natural? >> How do you relate to quote unquote masking now? I mean do you have an awareness and you make a choice like oh you know I don't think I'm going to shake uh right now in this experience. I think I'll shake later or how do you view it? >> Yeah, exactly. I I think there's some functional masking that we do like it's you know agreed upon in our society that we smile when we greet each other. It's I mean that feels natural to me. I'm just using that as an example. But
it's you know there are certain ways that that that we operate to be part of a society like how are you Tammy? You know the a asking that that's you know kind of what we do. So, um, you know, I always encourage people to unmask, but, you know, there's there can be this defiant thing like screw it. I'm not going to ask people how they're how they are just because socially I'm you know so and that's a choice of course but um we're all adapting in ways that might not feel natural and and so my
advice to people is is is look at you know does the mask does unmasking cause harm you know um we don't want to cause harm to oursel of course but you know it's not going to kill me to make small talk with the you checkout person at Trader Joe's. And you know, small talk isn't really one of our favorite things. We like to have conversations like this, like we're having right now, just going deep and talking about, you know, big ideas and and that type of thing. So, yeah. Well, I'll share with you a very
brief example. I was at a party on Friday night and somebody said to me, "How are you?" And I looked away and I paused. And during that pause, I was checking my inner experience. And I was so many different things. >> It took me a while before I was able to find a sentence and respond because I wanted to honestly answer how I was. And it wasn't, you know, and so at a certain point then as I was still checking in inside, this gentleman put his arm on me and said, "Are you okay?" >> And
I was like, "Yeah, I'm okay. I'm just trying to, you know, I'm definitely okay. I'm just trying to answer your question, honestly." So anyway, that was an example of not being masked and it led to a good connection actually as I explained. But it interesting. Now uh Sarah, I want to see if we can bring a little more nuance. I mentioned that >> you uh are a late diagnosed autistic woman, but that you also have ADHD. And I wonder first of all if you could parse >> sure >> the characteristics of those two different aspects
of being neurode divergent from your own experience. >> Yeah. From my own experience. Um well I was diagnosed with what would later be referred to as ADHD when I was a kid. Um so I was called a hyperinetic kid which is is what they called us back then. And uh uh my family didn't want to put me on medication, so we adjusted my diet a little bit. And then we all kind of forgot about it because there were so many kids in my family and there was a lot going on. So I forgot about the
ADHD until a few years ago, which is very ADHD of me. Um ADHD is um an inability to regulate attention. Um there can be a feature to it that is a lot of energy. Um, I have had that. Um, the ADHD brain um doesn't quite know what is most important in in a given situation. We're uh motivated by a fire in our pants like either a deadline we wait until the very last minute um or it has to be something that we engage in that uh is very very interesting to us which leads to to
a lot of issues. So, um, thankfully meditation was incredibly interesting to me. So, so I dove in. But, um, people with ADHD have time blindness, um, which, you know, kind of is a feature of a of a of spiritual awakeness, you know, of time kind of collapsing and you're just in the present moment all the time, but that can that can really lead to um to to issues. Um, thriving on chaos. um lots of ideas um uh uh a wide mind that can hold a lot of different possibilities. Um you know, traditionally we know with
autism that it's it's a little bit more about rigidity and structure, um black and white thinking, um a need for repetitive movement or repetitive rituals, um uh kind of an awkwardness with social situations. they they do overlap. Um, and I am not a neurode divergent expert. Um, you know, I just discovered this about myself a couple years ago. So, it's it's a process, but um, you know, I just find that there are two parts of my brain. One that loves chaos, like you should see my desk right now, Tammy. Um, and then another part of
me that, you know, my system, my wiring that really craves ritual and something that grounds me every day. Um, or else I can, you know, feel a little a little off sometimes. And of course, then I flow and I'm present with feeling off. But, you know, if I had my brothers, I would, you know, stick to a type of routine. Um, so there there are a lot of ADHD people out there. Um and there there there is there is an overlap. There are distinctions. Now this statement that really landed for me, neurode divergent people are
wired for awakening. Let's try the opposite statement for a moment. Aren't neurotypical people also wired for awakening? Aren't all aren't all humans wired for awakening? So I but I'm curious how you understand that because maybe the process is different for neurotypical people. I don't know. I don't know. Let's explore this. Um yes uh the you know being a human being. We're all we're all meant to awaken to our true nature. We all have the capacity to we all have Buddha nature. So um it's it's it's uh accessible to us. Right. I feel that neurode divergent
people and it's been my experience and with the people I've worked with over the years that either have identified as neurode divergent or highly sensitive or have been later realized tapping into true nature is I don't want to say that's the easy part um but it's it's right there and and what I find with people is they miss over it they they miss these moments of real presence of real um their essence because they're trying so hard to fit in with this world. Um now with neurotypical brain people, I mean, yeah, there are lots of
people who who are awakening. I think it's just that there is an exquisite sensitivity that this neurode divergent wiring um makes it a little easier for us to open to the undifferentiated to the unconditioned to um and also to multiplicity the multiplicitous nature of the spiritual dimension you know I mean it struck me with what you were saying about about answering that person at a party. We're we're we're complex processors. So, it's like somebody might ask you, "How are you doing?" Well, there's there's so much going on. Like, where do we start? And it could
take me, you know, a minute before I answer. Um, neurode divergent people seem to have access to the multiple dimensions of reality because there's a lot going on. Now, I I realize, of course, Sarah, that you're not a neuroscientist and that you're coming at this from your own personal experience, but also that I think you're quite a sophisticated thinker and you're very well read and you've gone deep down the rabbit hole of neurodeivergence and spirituality. As I said to you, you were tailorade uh haha for this uh series. But my question is what is it
in our neurological platform if you will from your understanding that for neurode divergent people that creates this openness this porousness this natural affinity with multi-dimensional awareness. How do you what what is it? What's that affinity based on? What's going on? Um well I'd love to talk to to a neuroscientist about this but I have read that for neurode divergent people particularly I guess autistic people and I could be wrong it could be for all neurot neurode divergent people but I was reading that our parietal lobe has more folds um leading to less of a sense
of self and you know as we're on the spiritual path we see through our ideas and our sense of what the self is. So the self is a little seems to be a little less defined um in in in our experience. Um so so that could be one thing. Um there are differences with the frontal lobe. Um it's a wiring. So, you know, just to your question earlier about, you know, um it it's it's uh it's not like it's going to go away. You know, >> what what do you mean it's not it's not like
it's >> the neurode divergent wiring with with one's spirit opening or awakening. It's not going to change that that we're neurode divergent. You know, well, now we're divergent because we've awakened or we've deepened on the spiritual path. But that that initial wiring that apparently we're born with, I mean, that's still going to be in effect our relationship to it, how we work with it, how we move through the world. Um, you know, that that's where we can, you know, turn our attention to. I'm gonna ask you a a a kind of challenging question if you
will because >> when I was reading about the progressive spiritual awakenings that you went through and then in your experience you hit a place of an abiding quality of realization. I thought hm I'd really like to know more about that the abiding part. What is abiding in your experience? Yeah. Um, prior to this shift, it was the lens of consciousness seemed to open and then shut back down. There was a vast opening and then after a few months a shutting down and conditioning coming up and trauma and working through it. So it was that I
got it, I lost it phase that a lot of people kind of go through. Um, but with this shift that occurred, there was never any doubt afterward of what I am or my access to it and it being right here. So this sense of this vast infinite spaciousness that I am and within that is the play of phenomena, you know, thoughts and feelings and sensations and conditioning and trauma and reactions and you know um all of it playing against this wider more vast and fundamental backdrop. So um so that that has been my experience which
doesn't mean there hasn't been a lot of unraveling samscaras and knots and conditioning and you know and and just like this discovering that I'm neurode divergent and having fun chewing on this now you know and and what that could mean. Um so you know sometimes people say well is awakening sudden or gradual? Um I think for some people there are sudden distinctive moments and it's always gradual you know cuz there's always a deepening there's always more falling away there's always more embodiment. So this abiding sense of of what I am doesn't go anywhere and that's
that's sort of like that equinimity that that canvas upon which everything is arising is is always there and you know experiences vary different things are happening but that doesn't go away. You mentioned when quote unquote sansscaras arise. Can you explain to people your understanding of samscars and maybe give an example of the arisal of one post this abiding awakening and how it became metabolized or you worked with it in your own experience? >> Yeah. Yeah. I'd say you know relationship is our greatest teacher right? So, um, I would get to a point in my relationship
where I would just sort of ah, you know, burst with this frustration and, you know, now looking back, I probably was having sensory overload meltdowns, but also woven into that were, you know, this this conditioning of having gone through childhood trauma and having these um these habits of responding and reacting when I feel when I, you know, seem to be challenged or, you know, uh, you know, you're in a difficult conversation with someone being attacked, right? So, I would notice that, wow, I've had this profound awakening, this prof profound seeing, but my loved one can
really push my buttons, right? So, it's sort of, you know, getting honest with myself like this is what's happening. I've I've lost my connection to something here. It's gone way in the background now instead of being foreground. It's like it's still there. You know, I would be in a re reactivity and also feel the great spacious awareness of what I am, but yet there's this what is what am I habit why am I habituated to respond this way? So then I turn my attention to the actual um you know mechanism within me that wants to
respond that certain way and soften with it. um maybe after the conversation with the loved one, then sitting in meditation and being with the trigger and and and um what I have found is when we bring a a love and an honesty, a compassion to what is happening, it can really begin to melt our conditioning. We want to see through it, right? Like that's not who I am and that's learned behavior and it causes harm. It causes harm to my loved one and me, right? when I snap or whatever. But this clear seeing coupled with
compassion and you know you hear this a lot that just awareness will eventually melt these knots which I think it does but awareness has a dry quality to it. We we have to bring in the quality of compassion. Compassion for ourselves seeing where it came from. bringing ourselves back to these younger days when that that reactivity first arose and being with that aspect of oursel. I I did a lot of kind of parts work or um you know uh different versions of myself which sounds paradox paradoxical if you've woken up from the sense of the
separate self. Why are you talking to your inner child? Um and and that never at a certain point the paradox never bothered me. It was just like, well, you know what? That's an energy that's here in my system. It's an energy template that's running and I'm going to just give it love and give it give it the words that it wanted to hear back then at five or four at at 8 years old. So, so for for me and with a lot of the people I work with, there's this welcoming aspect. It's not this kind
of dry penetrative insight. You know, this causes me suffering. It's not who I am. It's permanent. The three marks of existence, right? It's really, you know, let's bring some love to it and acknowledge that it's here and that that compassion and awareness can can sort of begin to to melt it. It's very helpful. And I I think Sarah, as we're talking, I'm getting more of a sense of sort of the inner map, if you will, that you're sharing because I think sometimes when people hear an abiding spiritual awakening, >> that doesn't go with a sensory
overload, meltdown, freak out, like how could these things coexist? And yet you're describing in this gradual aspect of awakening that can be there even when there's been a huge sudden shift that oh there there can there are still often things like a sensory overload meltdown. But with love and awareness and welcoming that can metabolize and process through. Did I say that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It gets digested. I mean, you know, it's it's been about 10 years since that non-dual awakening we're speaking of. And, you know, conditioning is getting softer and softer and softer and
softer. You know, it's going to continue until we die, you know. Um but but yeah, I think that's a real misunderstanding or or or people really believe these myths that with any type of awakening, it's a one and done. It's a light switch moment. Everything's groovy now. Um you know, and and we can see spiritual teachers get into trouble, too. You know, they they're oh gosh, their conditioning is coming up. Oh, their addictive tendencies around money and sex and misconduct. Isn't that interesting? They're so awake. But that's you know so I just am completely dedicated
to keeping an eye to my conditioning like until I go you know like cuz it's it's uh it's going to they're going to be subtler and subtler ways in which it emerges. Now you work with many different kinds of people who identify as sensitive neurode divergent and more people who are looking for an awakening trail guide. I'm curious specifically though about people who are in their adult life who are discovering, you know, I think like Sarah, I've been a high masking autistic. I think that's true. I'm just starting to see this. What do you see
as the biggest challenges those people are facing and how do you help them? >> Yeah. Um there's usually a lot of grief, you know, like what what could my life be like if I had known? Of course, there are many people who just feel like, hey, you know, I've just figured out how to move through the world. This is how I am, whatever. And maybe they have a job that really fits them and their relationships. People have been understanding. And for whatever reason, it's like, okay. But for a majority of people, there's a real grief
that needs to um be reckoned with. And so um I hold space for for that for that grief, you know, of we have to really honor what we've lost in order to step into what is present and what is and what is here, you know. Um and just helping people become more authentic, you know. It's it's the spiritual path helps us to become more authentic anyway. And once one realizes that they're neurode divergent, they have neurode divergent wiring, even if it's late in life, they're on a an even deeper journey to become authentic, you know,
and and they of course overlap. So, I noticed that when I hold space for people to just make room for however they are, as you know, effed up as they are or angry as they are or griefstricken or weird or whatever it is that they're kind of resisting a little bit and we sit in it that that um I don't know often people will drop right down through into true nature. Um, you know, I I I know a woman who late60s h has had some profound shifts in consciousness and and through our talking began to
realize, oh wow, I'm autistic, you know, and and she sat with her grief uh and and sat with the this this recognition of this and she's just dropped right into a deeper non-dual state that's been abiding since since this recognition. So, so look, we're on the spiritual path wanting to recognize our true nature. Um but I think the path is also about recognizing our personhood and that it's both you know our absolute nature and our relative nature our pure fundamental essence and and our unique individuality and and that together that that brings an an integrated
life. You know, one of the things I wonder about is the utility and also the lack of utility and even harm that comes from labeling ourselves in all different kinds of ways. And you know, I even think of, you know, everything I went through, uh, I thought I, you know, androgynous, my sexual orientation, how am I going to describe myself to people? And, you know, can I just be me, please? But you know, yes, I have labels and I can do all that. And now I'm in this process of exploring my own neurode divergence and
all the possible labels and which ones fit and do they fit forever or do they just fit now? And what you and part of me is like really like is this how useful is it or is it just like why would I why would I put this mysterious being in this box? Is it good? And I'm curious how you see that. Yeah, it's a great question. Um, and I wondered that too. I mean, I think over the years there was something a little nagging where I was like, I wonder if I wonder if I'm autistic.
Am I then to be like, well, who who cares now? Right? So, that night that I heard that voice and I just went, uh, I'm I'm meant to go down this path and learn about this. Look, labels can uh stifle us and box us in and they can also set us free. I look at it like, you know, this is probably my autistic wiring. I'm like, "Oh, there's uh certain sets of behavior and and uh you know, ways of seeing that um somebody with my wiring has." So, it's really helpful for me to learn about
that and learn about all the ways that that I see things differently or might need something differently than the next person. Um I mean, I just remember years ago when I somebody gave me the the the label codependent and I was like, "H, do I really want to take on another label?" And then I just looked at it like, hey, you know, there are these sets of behaviors that come with being codependent. I don't really uh identify as a codependent, but I'm going to look at these behaviors and the this kind of wiring that I
have and uh let it be useful. It's more knowledge, right? It's, you know, if we're a seeker of truth, why not uh learn what's true about us? And of course, many things can be true at once. You know, you're you're you're not a neurode divergent person. And at the same time, you are like you're more than that. And also, you know, there might be some limitations and some unique ways that you move through the world because of it. And so, we can then start to embrace like what are the gifts of this and like, you
know, and and and what about it is a disability so that I can care for myself better. But, you know, hey, some people, you know, later in life, they've already kind of figured that out, you know. Um, so, so I think it's going to be individual. It's going to be unique for everybody. How have you experienced your neurode divergence as a disability? >> Um I think through my life I couldn't handle a lot of uh a lot of things at once, a lot of demands at once. So hyperfocus is is something that comes with ADHD
and autism. And that's that capacity, that ability to hone in on something and just lock in, right? And it's wonderful. It can be a great gift. And you know, I'm sure symphonies have been created from hyperfocus and and companies and whatnot. Um, but it can be a disability when you are ignoring that like you know uh the garbage truck is outside um and you're getting a ticket for having your car par still parked out there. So there was always this uh feeling in my life like there was too much going on because of the complex
way I process. I can see several truths at once. I can you know I would often just become um uh unable to move forward in my life at various times. Um executive functioning sometimes you know I was a waitress for a while. I don't even I know you used to waitress. I was a terrible waitress cuz I I couldn't prioritize. I think it was the ADHD in me was like, "Well, wait a minute. I wish that table sat down, but then this table over here and then like, well, who needs their water first?" And it
it was um I was overwhelmed. I was over I was overstimulated. Now, here I am later in my life. I've just created a life that works for me. So, you know, I'm not experiencing the disability that I did in my youth. um you know so and and I do want to make it clear too that there are people who you know have um you know there are different levels to autism so I'm considered level one aspberers which we don't use anymore um and there's level two and there's level three and you know some people don't
like the levels it's just about support needs high support needs low support needs so someone like me is considered low support needs but um but we still need support, you know, like I work with an ADHD coach and she's great. Uh she just keeps me focused, keeps me on track. I check in with her every week because otherwise, you know, especially after opening up to, you know, um I really have time blindness, you know. Um so it it's been helpful like to be able to say like, okay, I need I need a little more support
and so I'm going to get it. Okay. Okay, I just have two final questions for you, Sarah. The first one here is kind of a a public service announcement, if you will, for people listening who maybe at this moment in our conversation are like, "Wow, I've really heard a lot here. I I feel very stirred up." I mean, just by talking about raw exquisite sensitivity and overwhelm, let alone everything that's been shared about spiritual awakening and different aspects of neurode divergence. I'm overwhelmed at this moment. What would you say to such a person to help
them >> uh be with themselves in a loving way? >> Yeah, I think this compassion piece is so important and keeping things very very simple. What do you know for sure in this moment? What do you need in this moment? And there's something that I that I do with people when they um feel like they've been pulled in a lot of directions. And sometimes when we take in a lot of information about something, we start to feel our energy leaking and going out towards the future. And well, what does this mean? And so, so this
is just a little exercise, if I may, of just bringing your attention to your center. So like from your your heart down to your navl just imagining there and you can close your eyes if you want a sun just a big bright sun. This is your your your power center your your unique essence and just breathing into this light and allowing it to get big. And as you exhale, just relaxing with this light and this power here. And you're going to reclaim your power. All the energy that you've leaked and scattered and given away by
saying yes when you meant no or smiling when you didn't feel like it. We leak and scatter our energy when we ruminate on the past or we obsess on the future. when we haven't been authentic. So take a deep breath into this center. And as you exhale, all your energy comes back to you now effortlessly and easily. It just comes back. It's yours. And you're right here with your body, with your breath. And it's safe to just be here right now as you are. And you don't have to figure anything out. Just keep coming back
to your body and your breath. Sort of a gathering gathering up gathering up of oneself, you know. And then I'd say when you feel ready, start learning. There are wonderful creators on YouTube. Um, you know, women uh tend to not get diagnosed with neurode divergence because we mask better. You know, that's a really important important point that I wanted to bring forward. We that that gets missed, you know, and there are wonderful creators on YouTube talking about this. Um Devon uh Dr. Dr. Deon Price has a great book on unmasking. Um, Jenner Narinberg wrote a
book called Divergent Mind, which can be kind of an open door into learning about this. Um, and and it's it's being talked about more, you know, open up to friends, open up to loved ones. And you might be surprised. People say, "Hey, you know what? I think I'm autistic, too." Or I I you know what? That is me. I just got diagnosed. Didn't want to tell anybody. You know, there's a lot there's there's again a lot of women realizing this female identified and there are a lot of people in pmenopause and menopause who are sort
of waking up to the fact that they're neurode divergent because they're not masking anymore. Their sensitivity is increasing. Um, and and so there are a lot of people over the age of 40, male or female, just, you know, or non-binary or gender fluid, realizing this that that wow, you know, I've spent my whole life a certain way and um and and what if what if there's a way to be more authentic? What if there's something going on that is asking me to connect more deeply to my body and my own being? >> All right, here's
the last thing I want to ask you. I'd love to get your perspective on this which is for two decades now Sounds Tru's worked with Echartole the author of the power of now and he talks about something that he calls the flowering of human consciousness and just in brief that more and more people are awakening going through spiritual awakenings at this time and that this is going to increase just like in the biological evolution on the earth there were a few flowers at a certain point and then more flowers opened and more flowers and they
were going through this flowering. So when I hear you say neurode divergent people are wired for awakening, I wonder is the discovery of our neurode divergence and more and more potentially perhaps neurode divergent people being born more of us recognizing and identifying with that part of this evolutionary process that we're in that's connected to the evolutionary process. process of awakening. And how do you see that? >> I think it might be I am I am of that mind that there are more of us and we're realizing that there are more of us. So what are
these structures that have been put in place for for people with systems that don't quite fit in it? And um I do think there are more people awakening. I mean just you know 20 years ago when this was dawning for me you know as I mentioned to you I couldn't I couldn't find a lot about post awakening terrain on YouTube or on the on the internet and and it's it's all over the place and I I just you know the the amount of people that come to me and say I just downloaded this you know
this meditation app and I suddenly I've realized myself as luminous emptiness what is going on like there are a lot of people who are awakening that don't have context and um And and so but the point being that I think there are more I think there are more people awakening and um the divergent brain perhaps it is an evolutionary thing and as with evolution you know it's it's this balance that is trying to to find its its way. Um, it could be. Yeah. >> Sarah Taylor, thank you so much for being part of our series
on spirituality and the neurodeivergent mind. I've really benefited a lot from talking with you. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, thanks for having me. It's been uh really really a delight. So, thanks. Thanks, friends. And if you'd like to watch Insights at the Edge on video and participate in the aftershow Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring awardwinning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations, and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code podcast to get your first month free. You can
learn more at join.soundstrrew.com. Sounds true. Waking up the world. [Music] The Sounds True Podcast Network.
