EP-227 | Beef Ban Debate, 'Rocky' Alliance with BJP, Act East Policy & Border Issues | Conrad Sangma

You'll be surprised to know that there was one incident where one particular person was shot at by the BSF because he was smuggling sorry airport also is a major uh issue right connectivity also is I'll come to that also it's almost like assembly session when you you know asking me supplementary questions every time I go to any Minister cabinet minister and I talk to them they said Conrad give us some projects are you in such a strong position that you don't need allies anymore we have been working with the NDA and we continue to do

that yet we do have complications we do have a lot of differences we uh don't agree on a lot of things but I guess that's the nature of any relationship BJP has beef ban in many of the states where they are in power in meal they are in Alliance with you you should not intervene in any Individual or any community's eating habits we're very clear about that even from the uh bjp's as a point of they understand it also UCC CAA NRC these three things are very sensitive topics in all of Northeast right in in

all the cases we have been taking a stand against uh in all of these areas Namaste J hind you're watching or listening to another edition of the Ani podcast with Smita prakash my guest today is the chief minister of the Beautiful state of megal Conrad sangma the mountains and forests of this utterly beautiful state in Northeast India should be on everyone's bucket list 70% of the state is forested it lies between Bangladesh on the East and Assam on its West the politics of meal is often overshadowed by its larger neighboring state of Assam my guest

today is a second generation politician his father PA sangma formerly with the Congress and then with the NCP had an Illustrious political career Conrad sangma is a representative of the NPP formed by his father the NPP is backed by the BJP in the state government thank you sir thank you for coming on the podcast uh I'm uh looking forward to the conversation I have been to your beautiful state and I just my father's first posting uh after marriage was in uh meal so in shilong yes okay so uh it has a special place in my

heart wonderful so I look forward to having a Convers with you um but of course first I have to speak to you about your father he was the most favorite politician for all of us when we were covering Parliament when we were um you know young reporters nine-time uh parliamentarian yes uh what was he like as a father I mean of course everybody knows of him as a politician nine time and all that but as a father how was he uh of course uh uh you know he didn't have so much of time as uh

we would have Wanted or my mother would have wanted him to spend time with us uh but uh whenever he got time he uh always used to uh make sure that he would try and connect with us um give us certain thoughts ideas values um so that was something very uh important which to be very Frank we do didn't realize it that those days and that that time but now when I look back you know you know I remember small small conversations I used to have with him And I realized that you know there was

a very deep uh message and meaning so I think the quality of time that we spent was very good and uh very memorable you have the same sense of humor like he had he used to have a quip a minute absolutely no no he's uh he was of a different class all together um luckily unluckily whatever you call it uh his qualities have been um kind of divided among four children so the the the humor I'm I can say very confidently has gone To my youngest uh sister Agata who was a member of parliament earlier

so she's uh she's in that line definitely so yeah so a bit of qualities have been divided among the four children and longtime uh Congress person and then he shifted uh to NCP then set up his own party uh you represent that party um what was it like growing up and you know seeing your father uh getting um rough treatment at some point of time because for a long time his career was on this even Keel And then there was that break uh your sister continued in the Congress so this uh you know trouble which

happens when you you're a longtime uh loyal worker of a particular party and then you shift did you see all that ups and downs in your Dad's life absolutely okay in fact I remember um it was uh during my graduation M uh and I think a day before uh or 2 days before uh it was around May uh 15th or 16th uh 1999 so that was a time when um uh when Uh he was expelled from the Congress at that point in time this was as I said many many years uh back but I remember

the date and um so I've been uh uh kind of uh quite uh deeply affected I should say by all those uh events that took place it's very fresh uh I should say in my mind and uh that was a moment actually when uh I also kind of committed myself uh into uh working and supporting uh uh him in those difficult times and uh I remember in 2000 2001 2002 2003 so we were building up the then NCP and uh obviously so I used to be there moving around with him and doing a lot of

work so uh I have been uh kind of very deeply involved in you're the eldest son right no I have elder brother you have an so so but then I I was very much deeply involved in public life uh from a young age in fact I I still remember uh giving my first uh public speech at the age of 12 uh and I was Campaigning with him and I used to move around with him even when I was like 78 years old I just liked U you know just traveling and meeting people uh so yeah

so I've seen that part and uh it was difficult but I guess uh every uh situation you know um is an opportunity in one way to learn things to adapt in certain ways to maybe come out stronger and look into yourself so I I we looked at it from that point of view it was very challenging but uh you Know looking back it has been a you know very very important uh part of uh at least my upbringing and for me to look at uh politics and uh party organization in a certain way so yes

I have uh I have personally learned a lot from this and um I it's been emotionally also very very important for us and yes you know my late father went through a lot of difficulty uh you know standing uh for election against um pranam mukarji do you think he was set up looking back uh In hindsight or was he committed to uh fighting that election against he was very committed uh 2012 I was again very deeply involved in what was happening and I still remember moving around with him to Gujarat to madh Pradesh to orisa

and all that was NCP at that time so uh so that was again the second phase of for us in one way because um that was a time when uh uh if you recall the NCP was supporting the uh the the UPA and uh that's when um the NCP did not agree That uh my father should contest we were we were all NCP I was the leader of opposition that time in uh in the megal assembly and um we were told uh that he should not contest so when he did not agree to that and

he said he will contest that's when uh we were all expelled kind of thing from the party at that time the NCP and uh he was very keen at that point in time because uhu there was a very strong kind of a momentum and demand and a lot of tribal Leaders across Party Line had come together and said that you know we should give a chance to tribal leader and I remember very clearly they give a panel of names to all the uh political parties saying you choose we're not saying a b c d so

that's when uh you know if I remember I remember correctly it was uh uh you know miss our odisa uh CM Mr nain patnik G who then announced that he will support Mr pma's candidature and that's where the ball Started rolling and uh so it was not uh uh NCP so we were then kind of an independent candidate but then supported by uh you know uh um late uh uh J Lita G and obviously Mr nain Patna G and BJP also then supported so that's how it went but yes it was a tough I remember

moving around and we knew the numbers were stacked up against us but uh I think at the end of the date was uh the larger message that he wanted to give uh about the tribal identity and we're Happy that today we have a tribal as the President of India so I you know I look back at that moment and then look back 12 years somewhere it started it started and he laid the foundation in one way for it for that uh for that thought process to come among the top leadership in the nation and uh

it actually fructified now in this uh thing with our current president as being the first tribal president of this country tell me about the formation of the NPP um how Successful were you and how difficult was it to start a new party and what are the goals uh that you have for your party no it's always difficult to start a new party and uh you know everything from uh the identity of the party the symbol of the party to creating organizations uh it's always complicated so it's not easy for anybody we have seen it twice

so we saw it in the NCP time and then obviously we saw it in the NPP time so it's been very very challenging so you see National parties uh you couldn't find your uh space in a national party is that why you set up a regional party party is that the reason uh well uh late P sangi was had a uh you know uh was expelled number one from the Congress lot of people think that he left the Congress but actually he was expelled uh as I said on May 15th 16 1999 and uh so

that's when things started rolling so he has played an Important role in the direction in which we are right now so when uh we left the NCP then uh obviously he was uh very keen to to start you know a political party where we and especially him uh has uh he was that point in time he was been talking about U uh you know the overall identity of uh of Northeast and he wanted a platform and he had done it before he had spoken to uh you know that time Mr chamling uh Mr Rio uh

Mr Zoran Tanga and other leaders in here triy to Bring them together in a platform saying that look we may have our own issues as a state but then as a block and as a Northeast our numbers are too less we have only 24 uh with Sim 25 MPS it's not enough for us to have a voice if we are split so he always had this thought process that until unless there's a block or a platform that represents the Northeast we may not have enough numbers in Parliament to be able to be a voice so

that's the foundation of the NPP and Today if you look back we in 2019 we finally became a national uh a party recognized at the national level in terms of the election commission and we are the only party from the Northeast to have that and that to made up by the states of the Northeast alone so that's the identity we have as of now and uh we continue to speak about issues that are important for the Northeast uh realizing the differences that are there within the Northeast itself and playing the delicate balance between ensuring a

regional identity uh ensuring the identity at the local level is maintained and keeping the national interest also in mind right uh you know you were talking about uh numbers and uh the BJP is an ally uh in your government right now but uh lately you got the Congress uh there was this uh 12 uh of the 17 mlas uh they joined first in 2021 you got 12 of them then you got uh you Got five joining in 2023 so now with all these numbers um how are you stacked right now currently in the assembly are

you in such a strong position that you don't need allies anymore um I again have uh I I based my decisions on uh I guess principles and the experiences which we have had in the last uh 20 years in fact uh more than that 25 years of being in organizational politics and being in a way in mostly in opposition uh so uh just to share with You right now we have have a simple majority so we are 31 uh and uh we NP NPP alone the NPP alone uh has 31 mlas and the ma and

the and the total strength of the house is 60 okay so we are at 31 and uh but still uh I maintain my relationship with my allies last government I ran with 19 mlas from my side and the rest were all um uh or my Coalition partners that supported me and I laid down certain principles that we should follow in Coalition politics very difficult but maybe that's the only way you can run because then the principle applies to everybody no matter which party you belong to uh and uh my messaging in 2023 also to our

political parties was that look maybe the understanding the numbers here and there may you know need to be tweaked a bit but I think the larger context of maintaining our trust and relationship uh is key in politics and there for um I may have the numbers but We will move together we will work together and we'll build up a relationship because in Politics As I said you need friends you need people you can trust and work with and that's why even though we have the majority right now at 31 uh we still have all the

uh the the same Partners who were there with us in the first term and more importantly I have given them space in my cabinet uh in despite of the fact that we have a simple majority already So yes so that's why it's important and I will continue to do that I have a lot of pressure within my party also yes I'm just going to read out a quote uh this is by uh one of your uh cabinet ministers uh rakam sangma he squarely blamed the bjp's emphasis on hindutva for the for his loksabha defeat and

um I mean you said that it's not fair to blame the BJP but clearly there are Rumblings within the party uh not too happy with the line taken by the BJP Maybe not in in your state itself maybe in another state but the repercussions uh or the rippings uh you know it it is uh felt in your state too so for me it's very simple again uh we can complicate things a lot by going into a lot of analysis or we can just keep things very simple and the way I see it is that we

have a larger picture to look at and in the larger picture in the larger canvas uh we'll have to look at the uh the the overall impact on government the overall Impact on development the overall impact on the country as we move along so I think uh if you look at that canvas we are very clear that uh we have been working with the NDA for a very long time even since my late father's time and we continue to do that uh yet we do have complications we do have a lot of differences we uh

don't agree on a lot of things but I guess that's the nature of any relationship so I don't don't uh I don't I don't think or I don't expect That there will be a smooth relationship uh I think like this cow protection rally which was supposed to take place and uh so obviously the hindutva um uh element in the BJP wanted that rally uh your uh government was not uh saying that there's the beef ban uh issue that also is an issue so uh how do you reconcile with these things again follow principles you know

what is the basics now as a government it is important for us to maintain Law and Order and um when We looked at the entire situation we said that look if this is going to lead to a lawn or a situation then we need to be firm right so there could be certain people or certain um you know quarters and sections that may say something but I think at the end of the day after this is over the Law and Order will have to be maintained by the government and by us so uh we just

follow basic uh you know thoughts and basic principles keep things simple the law and order was Going to be affected because of this particular rally and hence we uh made sure that we communicated and we said that it cannot be held because it'll create a lot of problem so it was very simple decision for us and we've went ahead with this there were some people who were not happy about it and have made it an issue but I think the larger context of things and as I said keeping the uh core uh you know issues

in mind um it was important for us to take that Decision for example uh BJP has beef ban in many of the states where they they are in power in meal they are in Alliance with you so they are not able to uh obviously push the uh because you have the rarer numbers push this agenda of beef ban also culturally are they sensitive uh to understand that a beef ban is not possible in meal yes both in fact uh number one uh if you were to speak to large number of the BJP leaders from Northeast

itself um they will also Tell you that uh that look it cannot be done you know this has been our culture this has been our eating habits and uh yes we respect everybody but then we also expect that you will not interfere with um our food habits so I think that part is very clear there should not be an interference and we also as a government and as a party also we stand by that um that particular principle that you should not interv intervene in any individual or any community's eating Habits we're very clear about

that uh so that's how we have we have uh we have addressed this and even from the uh bjp's as I said point of view they understand it also but of course there are certain um individuals and certain uh groups within uh different uh organizations which may be directly or indirectly linked to the BJP uh that then again have to express their stand also and they do that so it's fine in a democracy everybody has a right but Again as I said uh you know from a government point of view we look at the larger

picture and uh we take our decisions and in this case also we're very clear that uh intervening in any individual or any community's um you know practices or eating habits is not the correct thing especially in a democratic and secular Nation like us one question which I have to ask you is when Mr Amit sha said uh listed meala is one of the most corrupt states in the Country and then the Congress turned around and said that look here is a a home minister who's already uh calling megal corrupt how do you see this whole

thing so I hope you know the timing of that particular statement it was when the elections were going on before the alliance happened uh yes when uh we had decided that we will not fight uh we will not have a pre-o Alliance yeah and uh I had very clearly told uh the BJP that we want to fight on our own that's What we do normally um and we had been in government for the Last 5 Years together uh and then after that we are in government now so so that's my answer so election with there

are talks like that people make allegations against each other so that's normal uh but as I said uh they are very much uh in the government with us working with us they very much aware of everything we're doing or not doing so I don't think There's anything to hide um in terms of as I said election uh moments I think uh if you were to go into details of what everybody says during elections uh then I think it'll be very difficult uh to to to work in the future yeah I want to see statement it's

a I I look at it as a purely election statement but of course anything further that is there he's got uh you know full authority to do whatever he wants so I'm sure that after election uh you know U these things are Not something that you we will we look at it from that point of view uh election statements are meant to kind of uh have the elector and emotive uh but as I said we've been working in The Last 5 Years very closely before the election took place and after now the election also we

working very closely I'll come back to uh uh megala and its unique uh issues but since you mentioned Northeast uh let me uh broaden the conversation a little bit the scope um you know in the Northeast the geographical boundaries there are always uh issues which come up between when it comes to borders uh geographical borders uh explain to me where is Muk in which part and why is this an uh a a bone of contention between your state Assam uh so what happened was uh way back in the '70s early '70s '70s 7172 when this

entire process of the statehood was happening um you know clear defined kind of U uh geographical Lines or boundaries uh in some areas were not uh marked and that led to a lot of uh kind of confusion and left too many things uh you know uh open and and uh uh not to blame anybody but uh I can understand that during that moment you know the need for getting the state and fulfilling the people's desire uh so micro detailing and micromanagement and getting all the details uh worked out uh could have been missed out so

it's not that we blaming anybody but it happened Those are the facts now in that situation there were uh uh a lot of areas where uh there were conflicts and you know kind of uh differences that arose between the two states and the people uh so way back in um 2011 2012 the den government uh then put up a study and they drafted a report which uh showed 12 areas of differences now whether right or wrong whether they left out some areas or whether they took certain areas which were not meant to be In the

areas of differences whatever the case may be 2012 report by the then government was made and which was officially kind of approved in One Way by both the state governments at that time so we have to work with those documents and those areas of differences now within those areas of differences mro is one Village that falls at the border of uh one of these uh areas of differences and uh and that's where uh this particular incident about uh 2 Years back had taken place where there was a fight firing from uh you know from the

other side and uh about you know and few people lost their lives so that is what happened in mro the problem actually is that there is a um um kind of a gray area where uh certain development work or certain activities which uh megal citizens feel that why should they be stopped but they are stopped by whether the carong autonomous District Council officials or Or the um or the Assam officials and sometimes from Assam side also when people are trying to do some activities on this side of um uh the concerned um area of differences

then meal people also react meala government also reacts so basically it's just the tension and the non- clarity of the lines and the different activities that take place and everybody feels so where how what is the solution to this so uh so in these 12 areas uh What we did was we realized that every area is not as complicated as you know the other ones and hence what we have done is that now with uh the Assam government and the now Assam chief minister we are working closely we talk to each other in a very

very uh formal as well as informal setup and we try to see how we can come to a conclusion and uh uh six areas we have been able to come come to a sort of a conclusion and now these surveys are taking place to You know to uh year mark and to sorry to Mark the Border uh areas which we're defining so Geological Survey of India's is working in that line but six areas we have more or less kind of come to some conclusion as to what would be the way forward the rest of the

six locations are the slightly more complicated ones and so we are still in the phase of discussing on how to move forward but I think what is important to note is that you know this cannot go on forever you See the muku incident if we had drawn the lines long time back these incidents would not up yes so we need to find this because the tension will continue yeah and until unless we are able to solve it whether right or wrong somewhere we have to come to an agreement and this cannot be you know so

in the past just to share with you there were 26 meetings of uh the chief ministers for the last maybe 20 25 30 years of the chief ministers and the chief secretaries 26 times more Than 26 times I I can't remember the exact amount and in each and every meeting the decision was to maintain status go so it was for the first time that when we took over that we said that no whether you know possible or not this thing requires more than just status quo we cannot stick to status quo anymore that's a easy

way out right that's a yeah easy way out and for the people on the ground it's not the easy way out though politically it's very tough for Us to take this issue up because a lot of blame will come to me you know so even if I do the you know something that is on the right side then somebody sayik if I do this then people will say but we as Leaders obviously realize that somebody has to take the bull by the horn and say that look let's find a solution to this because this can't

continue people are losing their lives and Muk was one example of that uh thankfully now we have a decent Understanding at the is him on the same page yes he is absolutely and government of India also is on the same page so that's the good part when political uh will I can say is there um complications are there but there's a political will so we are seeing that maybe this could be the best time actually to resolve this issue uh and the ones we cannot then we should again come to decision look this cannot be

so this is the working system in these areas okay so I'm not saying that we can resolve all because it is truly complicated um and if I you know if I go into details it'll be too long but uh uh there are some areas which are very very complicated and hence uh I really you know need to find options and ways and means to discuss this and when you have an ally uh you know from your state who's the chief minister of uh the neighboring state I'm I'm sure that there should be you know more

communication and you Should be able to resolve let me get into the other thing of uh UCC uh that's also something which all northeast states get affected and you especially um you know uh you and Assam uh your state and Assam because you for you it's a neighboring uh area Bangladesh so in UCC you had said UCC is against the idea of India in 2023 do you still hold that view yes uh absolutely uh the uh the point that um uh if you look at UCC uh and un uniform civil court at large you Know

uh so making things uniform uh is going against the entire concept of diversity of us of our nation the point here is very clear that uniformity in what and where do we draw the line so to be very Frank the concept of UCC if you want to bring it to everything then it goes against the idea as I said of India because India is a diverse Nation but without really looking at the draft of what exactly UCC will be youan uh uni uniform civil code in what you know uh So if you saw the utarak

um UCC uh it clearly mentioned that the uh the practices of the tribal communities will not be part of the UCC of utarak so like that obviously once we know what is it that the government wants to make uniform and what are the areas and how it will adapt to the diversity factors of the rest of the country and the different communities and especially the tribal communities I think we'll be in a better position to then comment so but Till then I think the idea and the point that if you're trying to make everything uniform

I think that could be complicated so it's UCC CAA NRC these three things are very sensitive topics in all of Northeast right so um him bisha says that these three absolutely necessary because Bangladesh issue right and uh he says that it is it is actually an existential threat if we don't have all these three in place uh varied views in all the other states uh in the Northeast so tell me what is your view about all these three no for example UCC you've already explained what about the others yeah in in all the cases we

have been taking a stand against uh in all of these areas but again my point is um it's not about um how to say about the concept you know the the devil like in the details as they call it so so what is it that you're going to you know so it's tweaking that you want in all three it is inclusiveness we want we want to Be part of the process uh like for example what happened in CAA so in the CAA once uh this uh the initial draft was brought in then there was a

lot of uproar and uh we also stood up against it uh and then at that point in time gabin invited all of us and when when they invited all of us we sat down and uh when we discussed the matters then they Exempted the six schedule area they Exempted the innerline permit area they Exempted certain other areas that are There so like that so the concept in itself is not I think um fair for us to say that whether right or wrong it is what the particular bill or the law will do and how it

will exempt and uh you know and create the exemptions for different because I can understand from a larger perspective of the nation yes there are certain requirements that are there but um but one cannot one cannot look at that uh and say that well it has to be applied to all the states okay so I think it is very important in all of these cases government of India should be flexible and should discuss with all the states uh before they come out with uh any kind of uh laws that impact um you know the nation

as a whole so tell me what is your view about one nation one election we've done CAA we've done uh UCC we've uh done NPR and you're not against any of these three in totality but with they should have respect for uh your your state and the others in the Northeast what about one nation one election is your party in favor of that no but again just before we go into the whole thing it's just the other way around which you mentioned we are not in favor of any of the three okay but if the

terms and conditions and the law is drafted in a manner in which it protects the rights of the different states then we can discuss and be on board so that's how that's number one number two again the same thing for one nation one Election now the issue is that I completely agree with honorable prime minister when he says that it completely disturbs the entire process of governance so we are at any given time we are always engage in election and I think it's not a good thing for governance uh you know being here now uh

this my seventh year running uh governance requires a momentum and um you cannot expect that you take up something and then you say okay I'll Finish it in 1 month 2 months and then you know okay we can take a break for 3 months and then again start after fourth month it's complicated so momentum is definitely affected and uh if there is one nation one election I think it will be a great blessing for the nation because then we can actually Focus for 5 years on governance and the momentum which we need uh will be

achieved the question is how now for example megal goes to election in 2028 Uh and uh the nation will go to election me the Lo saaba will go to election in 2029 so after 2028 election do we again have 29 election or will government of India say no we will extend the term for one year and if they do extend for one year what will the opposition what will the opposition say to that will they agree or not so question is what is it that is on in the details how do we make this happen

so that has to be discussed and once that Is discussed I think only then can we come to a conclusion because it's the actual implementation of the concept and the idea by being inclusive and by taking a consensus on board I'm sure there cannot be a full consensus but whatever closest consensus you can get the best possible solution may not be the perfect solution uh I think we need to listen to that we need to discuss it and then only come to conclusion but again as a concept this one I totally Agree with it are

you going to expand your parties footprint in other states in the Northeast are you Keen no obviously we are is that what is making the TMC a little nervous no I I think it's uh I think everybody has the right as a democratic uh you know in a setup like India and the party but we also understand our limitations we also understand that uh there are certain areas which are there which you can work on uh it's not so simple India's canvas In terms of you know politics is very very diverse and it's not so

simple so we are taking one step at a time and uh we will see how things go and we will try to expand as as I said as of now we are very much present in four states in the Northeast and uh we will look at options to expand in other states in the Northeast the TMC has uh increased its activities in your state congress of course you have started pulling people into your uh party uh and the Congress Is very upset about it but what about the TMC it's it's a major opposition party abishek

banerji got very angry called you con man uh when he's commented about it why is he feeling threatened about it and this is politics so I guess he will uh everybody will use different words uh I'm okay with that I don't want to react or respond to any of that uh but uh yes uh in simple thing again you know small things which I was mentioning to you in The beginning um like you can say um thoughts and ideas and principles which my late father had you know instilled in us and one of them was

that you never take anything lightly and therefore for me uh none of the political parties I look at as uh you know me the opposition I look at them as you know not important or not U impactful for me I work at everything from the point of view that U that we are actually losing and uh that we are you know fighting in a game that We are not going to win and I think that entire thought process and that mindset of uh being uh you know working with your back against the wall I think

is a is a great way to fight uh uh any battle and so for me yes TMC also I agree uh that we cannot take things lightly we have to work hard uh Congress of course is a party that defeated Us in this loab election so obviously it's something that we have to be very very uh careful as we move forward and other Regional Parties that are there that are working against us we are very uh clear that uh we will never take things for granted and for us TMC is also a very important OPP

you mentioned the Congress um uh Dr Manmohan Singh the UPA government had this L East policy and uh they kept talking about focus of uh on the northeast but many uh leaders from the Northeast felt that it was just cosmetic uh the the Northeast was ignored by them uh by the UPA um including uh you have Said this your father also was not happy with uh not enough being done with the L East policy Mr Modi has the ACT East policy tell me is there any sub stantial change that you witness with the ACT policy

compared with the L East policy uh so yeah so there is two aspects to this one is the uh the investment within uh the Northeast itself and what government of India can do so as you said when you look when you say acties it has to look at what is happening Within the Northeast and what's happening in the neighboring countries now neighboring countries yes because we act with the East with the rest of the so basically the point being that uh we mean the whole concept is that we need to look East we need to

act East because there's a huge economic you know activity going around from Vietnam La Cambodia you know Burma and thail and and entire Bangladesh and Bhutan almost all of asan in fact yes so how does India play its role and especially through the Northeast to take advant for the yeah for East Asia absolutely so that's really thear larger picture so while you're trying to implement that so you cannot just simply say let's tie up with ABCD country let's do this let's do that it has to start with strengthening within and that requires a strong investment

in basic things like infrastructure and overall uh capacity building uh of the states uh and so on And so forth I have seen at least in my last 7 years uh running now uh that um the government of India's uh focus and especially honorable prime minister focus on Northeast is huge you know he believes in this entire concept and that's what's one thing that uh really um you know attracts me to to him is the his entire idea for taking the Northeast forward and he just doesn't speak uh the government of India has shown it

with large Investments being made in Northeast huge investments in the road sector of course more is needed but uh but definitely it is far more than what it was before okay so all those ining in meal yes including meala so I can say that very confidently and what is also important that meala also has improved its overall absorption capacity you to realize correct yes so well government of India is ready to clap we also have to be ready and uh megala also in the last 7 years has improved its capacity Okay where we have seen

growth in almost every aspect whether it's the centrally sponsored schemes whether it's our own taxes has grown whether it's a central share of taxes that has grown uh whether it's the externally aided projects that has grown whether it's the investment or the money that we've got from the Special Assistant on capital investment in all these areas we have seen that a huge investment has been made in Northeast as a whole and megala has also Got its due share but the second part which requires us to now connect with the rest of the you know asan

and Bim stick and uh you know Southeast Asian Nations that is an area which requires a much more I should say focused and a tailor made approach now how does meala work with Burma there's not much no yes meala will work with Bangladesh because we share 444 km with Bangladesh yes and at the same time there a certain area of Barak Valley tripura and mizoram West Bengal and certain parts of uh lower Assam on on the Northern side these five areas will work with Bangladesh so when we talk of act East it has to be

Zone wise so which are the states and the regions that will work with Zone a which could be the Bangladesh Zone how will the states that will work with Zone B which is the Myanmar zone so you have mizoram you have nagaland you have man I mean Manipur you have nagaland arunachal having a border with with Myanmar so There Zone B the four states will have to have their policy cut out together which is different from Zone a uh I've been suggesting this uh that zone wise uh plans for the ACT policy to actually be

implemented in the right Earnest needs to be made and we are trying uh uh many things but U of course in some areas we move forward some areas it's complicated um and obviously the the the local conditions in the Nations that we're talking about also matters so we Have a bit of complication in Bangladesh today so how do we work so all our policies may be correct but situation doesn't is not conducive because now you've become a national security concern also with after what has happened in Bangladesh the change of regime and things like that

so there'll be a lot of focus on that aspect also because you share such a long border with Bangladesh so uh is there increased security activity uh in your state as a Result of that do you expect uh Hindus to move out of Bangladesh fearing persecution uh no I think um of course at large there is a a security concern at large whether what government of India or government of meala or all the bordering um states that are there uh but the situation was much more complicated many many um weeks back days back when this

you know incident was fresh but we seeing things settle down okay uh I think what is more important Now is that what happens after things settle down so at least this entire migration or movement um may not be of that much of a concern now expected we could see a bit but not at the level which we were concerned but I think more importantly we to see how this new regime now will because there's no way one can fence that border in oh it is fenced it is fence to large extent the mountains uh no

but the plain areas we can't PL areas you so in most of the Areas you'll be surprised to know that with Bangladesh uh close to about 70 75% at least in megala's case is all defensed so like that government of India this is one thing that again great government of India has done uh if you ever fly from um Kolkata to shalong uh or even to guati um you will see at night you know there's a really beautiful site you see especially when you cross over from meala from Bangladesh into meala you'll see a kind

Of a necklace light you know and then you'll be wondering what is that's the that's the border fencing okay it's just led up all across and it's it's just a in a beautiful site in one way but that's the kind of work and commitment that has been shown okay by government of India so challenges are there but I think we are trying to move forward Actis is is also complicated but I think again we're in the right direction but I guess more focus and more tailor made Approach has to be seen uh I have to

come to the uh the complexities in governing a state which has Hills and plains um tell me about uh you know when when one talks about performance as far as economic activity is concerned Why does meala still a feature among the lower ones because the Prime Minister has also said that unless the Northeast doesn't grow and uh economic potential is not fully utilized India cannot grow uh so where is megal lacking why does it Come under the lower category States so there is no one answer to this so I'll have to take a few seconds

uh minutes to explain this but if you look at the numbers that are coming in most of these numbers are coming in of the time frame of 18 19 19 20 2021 uh we took over in 20 2018 and um we had Co in the middle so really the activities that I've been talking about to you now about how our capacity and absorption has gone up uh Has happened in the last 2 years 3 years to say about maximum four years so from 2122 uh onwards we have seen a large amount and I don't have

the graphs with me we just recently gave a presentation to the finance commission and they saw those numbers and they were very happy to see those numbers but uh out of absorption capacity our activity in Social indicators you all of these aspects have gone up you know tremendously these numbers take time to Reflect on the on the on the statistics and the database now as I said you know the uh the data for uh different education the PGI you know index and other index other you know gradings that are there these are again you know

based on the 192021 data that they have we are very sure that when the new uh surveys come up that the number numbers will be reflected and the work that actually happened if you remember I just had mentioned to you that when we are in Governance you know we need that momentum we need that continuity now for us also 2018 was the starting point it's not like we just you know take off like a rocket you know everything takes time to you know build up and grow and we need to set up certain foundations certain

uh you know systems in place we need to you know create the certain capacities all of these things do take time but what what I have seen is that the last 2 to 3 years we have seen that Those Investments and those changes we made in the first 2 three years of our governance are now in track on track and now we are seeing those kind of development aspects I'll just give you a small example that um when I took over we had a maternal mortality rate which was double that of uh the nation so

nation was at about 113 uh that's mother per lack we were at 224 or 230 the highest in the nation uh from the last 3 years to 4 years we've Been focusing a lot on maternal mortality and multiple changes have taken place at different levels because we see a problem and then we don't realize what the have a matri society right in spite of that you had a high maternal so you see that these are points that that you don't see the the real cause of the effect and the causes were multiple you see the

causes were social economic you know issues the causes were were the spacing of birth Between the you know two children the causes were you have a low birth rate also no we have a high birth rate you have a high birth rate yes yes we have very high birth rate in fact you'll be surprised when you go to certain Villages that there are certain mothers who are like 24 25 years and they already giving birth to their fourth or their fifth child um and that's the kind of social issues that are there uh you know

we have very highrisk mothers so Because of their nutritional aspect they inherit the property right women in your state right yeah but I'll just just uh just to share with you so just that when we saw all those factors we then intervened and today our maternal mortality rate has come down by 45% okay excellent and we are at at the at the national average now and I will 100% bring it down below national average in the next few years to come but that number will be reflected in the next Survey that comes I get so

my point being that um all these kind of um economic activities social indicator inovative economic activity that you've done about the lottery uh yes uh that was a little surprising when one saw that because you think that um why is the government getting into this like why uh see one thing is for sure that number one uh you have to look at meala as a as a state in terms of its Revenue we have uh to Depend almost 80% in terms of a revenue and so do other smaller States like nagaland Manipur and all on

the central government we have limited scope for our own taxes so we need to you know look and find ways in which we can increase our taxes uh and that's where Lottery is one area which many small states have adopted and it has helped to certain extent but when you look at uh the lottery sector and it's not that uh you know only our government has done it or It's just been happen you've done digital right digital so I'll come to that but I'm just saying that first is Lottery itself so many states have done

it many governments have done it in the past and it's a historic fact that many many they St when they did that right so there were many reasons to stop it because there were like you know court cases happening you know you know the revenue was not coming the way they expected so on and so forth and that is The reason why you know we have come into a very Innovative now format and this Innovative format is what we calling the online Lottery system now why online so if you look at the entire scope of

things in in terms of the you know activities all across the Spectrum it is becoming All Digital number one so why not lotteries Lottery should become digital number one but number two more importantly the lottery sector has been actually looked at from multiple angles Uh into so many um you know problems in terms of you know price distribution transparency not being there uh taxation issues transparency not being there uh you know so so on and so forth so what online does it it makes everything transparent you know so who will get the prizes it's it's

all very clear how the winner will be selected it's all transparent today how many tickets were sold and what tax government should get will be all clear today uh in paper Lottery again not to go into blaming anybody on like that the scope of having a non-transparent system is much more how many tickets were sold we don't know you know we don't know whether the the winners you know were selected in the proper manner or not you know so you can really I should say manipulate if the system is not online so what we've done

and what it will transform I'm I'm sure the the overall Lottery sector is that this transparency is going to be a Win-win situation okay it's going to be win-win situation because it'll be creating a very strong transparent uh movement within the lottery section which will then build up the confidence of the players who are playing in it there will be a mechanism to monitor the players who are playing because we everything from knowing know your customer kyc and all those things will be mandatory and more importantly for the government we will know exactly what Sales

took place and therefore how much tax we should get uh all transparency how are mothers supposed to tell their children don't uh don't go in for lottery the government is only doing it they say so number one I think uh Beyond certain age limit you're allowed to play so obviously again a very good thing that if it's a paper Lottery you cannot check the age of the kid who's is playing okay but in the online Lottery You know the age because the kyc is there so anybody below 10 you know below below uh 18 or

whatever the age limit cannot play in this or 21 18 uh whatever the limit set by respective state governments so you cannot play in that so the kids will anyway not be able to play if it is paper then what you're saying is correct the mothers um will not will not be able to basically the government is not a nanny State uh it understands that people will do it so You might as well regulate it is what regulate in transparent transparent man and transparency and as I said and ensuring that there's a win-win situation winners

will get what they deserve to government will get what they deserve to and the organizers also what they're getting the entire system will show and it become transparent so it's the best technology and investment we can make in Lottery another thing which is a little confusing is that um a Majority the majority of your state is under Forest cover I think what 68 or 70% is under 76% 76% is under Forest cover then why is it when we look at pollution index uh you know your state also uh comes up uh in that uh there's

only one section or rather one location called No called berat that is the one that you're you're talking about berat is the industrial Zone which is right at the border of Assam so there's a road so Bart is that entire Zone uh which the Berad of course comes name comes from meal side uh therefore the blame comes to meal side uh but there's a road and there are Industries on both sides and yes certain issues have come up uh in that particular Zone this is right at the border when you enter from guati entering into

meala so this industrial Zone called ber Hut is the actually the bone of contention for us and um and we are obviously concerned about it but rest of the State uh we're not facing so Much of issue it's only in that location number one number two just recently in fact because I'm handling Forest now myself and I've gone into the details of things and uh we uh just about 2 weeks 3 weeks back in fact I had a surprise check done by my pollution board and uh all the industries which had U did not have

the Necessary Technology or not the machines I've sealed about uh five or six of them immediately so now regularly these kind of surprise checks are being Done and uh Industries and units which are not uh you know uh adhering to the the terms and conditions and the technology are being shut down okay so we are taking very strong steps against it uh in the Northeast almost all the states are battling the drug Menace uh in your state too uh there's it is it is a big thing so how are you battling that how is the

uh war against drugs uh going in your state and uh more importantly of course there is uh it's it's a Multipronged uh problem you have to crack down on the trade you have to crack down on uh on the dealers suppliers everything the security as ECT of it and then the rehabilitation and the treatment of drug addicts hundreds uh you know of thousands of people in the Northeast are battling with this and should there be uh some kind of a war room uh of Northeast uh Chief ministers to tackle this problem how do you suggest

one goes About with it so uh number one uh government of India has been very very firm on this particular issue um the entire U supply chain is something that government of India has been really working very hard to crack down in almost every meeting we have with the central government whether it's the Cs level whether it's the CM level whether it's the DG level or any level that the meeting takes place uh this is a issue that is discussed so just to share with You that there's a major concern and uh everybody is working

you know over time on this number two is you correctly as you said it's a it's an area which has got multi-dimensions now um there's issue of the production and the supply uh there's a issue of the transit uh there's a issue of the different roots that are involved in this and different kind of mechanisms that are there to stop it I'll talk about that also but just to Give it the overall larger uh picture uh AP apart from the of the supply chain it is the drug users and the impact on them and how

the rehabilitation can take place so that is also another uh concern for us uh as a state uh right now uh uh so now coming to the the the entire movement and the supply that takes place you'll be again surprised and happy to know that megala alone in the last uh 3 years since we have gone very aggressively in cracking down on this Close to about 300 crores worth of drugs has been seized and destroyed by us okay so multiple cases have been uh you know registered against thousands of people involved as we went along

we found out small things like megala did not even have a lab to test the drugs to then you know convict um you know certain people who were there by the time send the samples samples to Pune to Mumbai and it used to come back after 90 days and then we had to release the person so I set up My own lab we spent money and put up our own lab so now the convictions are being done on a very very regular basis and people who are involved this thing are being caught and very strict

um you know uh terms and conditions uh are being applied to them so there's a lot of aggressive work going on there but while we do that uh you know I mean I'll just come to the second part your borders are so porous also right in all the northeast states because of the terrain Being such that is that is there but and forested area so it's easy to you know go into the forest take your Consignments and consens are not that big also it's not that it's not that you require you know it's not that

also building materials it also goes in the building materials so many ways they they do it so so the only way to actually catch them is through intelligence Network strong intelligence Network and I'll come to that that's the Last point I'll mention but then again this the third part to this entire problem is the rehabilitation so uh regarding the entire rehabilitation program also you'll be again happy to know that we have started a project called dream so that's drug re U uh reduction uh elimination and inhalation um kind of mission that we have so this

dream project is something that uh we've been working very very strongly on and the Beauty of this project is that we work with communities so the communities that are there we ask the local people the local headmen uh the local you know the particular uh locality leaders the church leaders different religious leaders and we support them financially to then counsel the children so so that's how this uh dream project uh actually is not just a government project it's a community-driven project and that's something that's happening Okay but coming to the final Point uh uh you

know the at the end of the day because of the vast Network and because of the vast you know reach of the the the drug um uh you know entire sector or you can say the system and the fact that a large number of this depends on intelligence you know so we have intelligence sharing that takes place uh and uh you know a lot of uh you know coordination is is taking place within the states but in that area is the area Which we can we can really put our heads together smuggling because you have

this porous border or not porous you're saying but you have this large border with Bangladesh so uh cattle smuggling drug smuggling what happens yeah it does you know in the sense that there are areas I mean it's not that we not doing anything about it but as you said correctly that the the borders are so poor us that we cannot be present you know everywhere at any Moment so therefore we rely a lot on the intelligence inputs that we get about movements whether it's cattle whether it's drugs or any kind of smuggling that takes place

but uh you touched a very very uh important topic which I think maybe I'd like to share out here also is that what happens in um our scheme of things is that um for the BSF and for the agencies along the border you know a list of negative list of products is given and uh you know there is a need to Actually look into this negative list also okay uh you'll be surprised to know that there was one incident where one particular person was shot at by the B because he was smuggling and uh later

on of course he got injured he didn't uh it was not fatal so later on I cast the the BSF uh commandant he what was he smuggling and he said s h s was being sent by him s s s why is that a smuggling list it's not it's a negative list s yeah yeah so I'm Just giving example to you that these kind of small issues also need to be resol why should saris be negative I I don't know uh we are working on that uh but uh but that's what a surprise just like

it's surprise to you but when I went to Bangladesh and talking about cattle smug we have enough Cows of Our Own so I just kept quiet like how do you respond to something like that so there so there a lot of areas which uh which we require That's why I was mentioning to you earlier that this entire act East policy that we're talking requires reforms to be done at Zone levels you know outside it's a good thing because our Artisans and our you know people companies organizations that make this so how can we smoothen out

this entire process by you know restructuring or editing the negative list I would think fish is coming in with all that thing you know so so we Need to so so now how do we bring that the fish so you can bring the fish but it has to be tested so we need to put the centers along the border certain areas need to have the technology so there a lot of work that needs to be done uh to make this act East uh policy that we're talking about which is again as I said going in

the right direction but once we have a Zone based approach approach which has micro you know uh inputs uh Happening that's when we will see the real change taking place because at the larger top level we are seeing a lot of things but Micro level P we are actually so I want to talk to you about when uh when we talk of act East I want to talk about um tourism uh it should be in my opinion it should be on the bucket list of every Indian to go to your state because it is one

of the most beautiful places in the country that I have seen uh but you know when I went out there uh Recently when I started asking about um uh tourism that you know yeah uh whether it is on they just laugh at me AC and tourism you've seen how it is I find it extremely beautiful and people very welcoming uh towards tourist so tell me um what is the encourag that has been happening uh for tourism uh over the years to your state and uh are you happy about tourists coming in from different parts of

the country uh are they adhering to the principal because I Remember while driving I got stuck in a traffic jam and I noticed everybody in shalong keeps to it doesn't go around like that one car did that and then my driver said M you know um so how does in in especially in Hill States I've noticed that they want tourism but they don't like the Brash attitude that people from outside bring to their State uh I mean I don't want to uh uh to conclude with uh in the sense that that that's the General thing

but uh it's a it's a process you see so we we grow as we move along uh we see the benefits we see the real aspect um of what to tourism can do so I think it requires a lot of sensitization and uh process we move forward so I'll come to that but uh just to share with you about General tourism uh you know in the last you know four five years we have seen a lot of domestic growth especially after covid so there's been a kind of a reverse Tourism a challenge kind of Tourism

growth that has taken place a lot of people are now moving around and they have decided also that you know why just uh International locations our own domestic absolutely so people have started coming and you know and visiting shalong much more we've seen large you know 30 40% growth in I two uh two uh villages in your state got the best tourism mang and unen yeah that's correct they got the best T Tourism Village Awards what is that tourism Village uh it's basically uh there is a award for craftsmanship and uh there is an award

for Heritage okay so in that in these two categories in the Heritage and in the Craftsman award umen produces is what we call the aimsa silk so that's the silk that's produced the Aries silk without actually killing the worm so that's something then that uh then that Silk when is produced then it's now Designed uh in a you know by designers and now made into you know clothing that normal people can can wear so it's not just now say a stole but it's now a shirt a CA you know so that kind of stuff that

people can actually use and the Heritage Village is the one mopang where the villagers have conserved oberved uh a forest area uh and they call it the sacred Groves so it's uh sacred in the sense that people don't disturb the forest and if you do disturb Then you know it's not a good sign for for them and for you also if you pluck the tree or cut the pluck the leaves or cut the tree so with that they have preserved so that Heritage and that it's a beautiful Forest Area in fact I'm sure you must

have visited it when you go and if you have not then you should go so that's that's the place that bridge also is right bridge in fact say the bridges the The Living Root Bridges we have almost more than 200 of them yeah uh so This has been a tradition for the last many many most amazing experience but it's the most you see it's safe everybody tells you it's safe but the first couple of steps is a little nerve-racking yeah but but it's it's it's amazing because uh it's another kind of reflection of the culture

and how the communities adapted and use their own knowledge uh to come out with technologies that could be beneficial to them when other Technologies were not available but again as a coming back to the general tourism sector we have seen a huge growth number one we have been intervening in many areas like for example we have one of the largest and the best Homestay programs where even up to about 70% of financial support is given to uh Homestay providers so and we getting huge response we have almost about 800 of them being constructed now and

we target about 2,000 plus uh in the Last many so that will allow the people to have the local experience okay number two we have gone for uh the first five star hotels in the last 52 years came up in the last 3 years in fact so we have the the viant and the Courtyard by Marriot uh finally two five star hotels and and the airport no no in in shalong City yeah I know but airport also is a major uh issue right connectivity also is I'll come to that so you're it's almost like assembly

session when you're You know asking me supplementary questions but I'm happy to answer that so hotels two hotels have come up five star hotels and we're going to have another uh close to about five more coming up in this next uh you know four four four years apart from that um you know huge investments in uh infrastructures around important locations is coming up and a lot of investment has been made through the local entrepreneurs you know for example You know we started Distributing uh tourist vehicles at 50% subsidy to youths who can then be tour

guides and have their own vehicle so the infrastructure and the logistics of what makes the tourism sector boom those Investments are being made small small activities for example uh we have different festivals different programs happening you'll be surprised to know that meala has one of the longest caving networks in the world yes we have caves That are 27 km long you know in the caves one of the caves of as the stalagmite you know the stone that was found determined the civilization the human civilization that we live in today so 4,200 years back the civilizations

were all destroyed because of whatever natural Calamity and there was a you know a Mark that comes out in the stalagmite that determines the new civilization that came in that stone that gave or the stalagmite that gave That particular information that was found in the caves of megala where is this so the location uh is in mlu uh which is uh in Sora so it is um again as I said it's a cave where this particular stall might was found which has determined the age of the uh civilization that we live in which we call

now the megalan age and so that's something that's uh that's again a great thing for us and so we started realizing that this entire experience of caving uh Is something that we can sell and we can uh you know promote our tourism through that uh to these kind of things and activities are now something that we are really stressing on and we're ensuring that we are able to promote tourism so you will see again as I said it's a momentum you see you don't expect that we start doing things today and we see the results

tomorrow but then the the growth rate and the and the trajectory is something that you can see that the Growth rate and the graph is going up whether number of customers whether the economic activities whether the Investments being made in tourism in all the different graphs you will see that there's a very strong growth rate that is coming in coming to the connectivity which you mentioned which is the airport again before 2018 there was not a single flight to shalong only the Air Force had Air Force also only had the helicopter yeah so it was

only in 2018 when we came In we said we must come up with a connectivity thank God uran also that time was launched by government of India and today uh you know we have uh you know almost close to 7 to eight flights coming in every day and thousands of tourists coming in every month that take the flight directly now to shalong okay and you'll be again happy to know we have a slight technical glitch because um we could not have the larger aircrafts Landing there the normal Commercial flights but that also we have now

worked on and uh we are hopeful that uh within a few months time we should be getting a green signal to expand our Runway which will then finally allow the commercial flights of normal spice jet Indigo the A320 the Boeing 737 and other aircrafts the normal aircrafts we'll be able to land them in shalong so we that that will be a big game changer for us even now as I said we have got the smaller aircrafts atrs Landing uh Which happened again post 2018 but our Target is to ensure that the normal comercial flights are

able to land which will happen very soon so uh when we're getting into the second half of the conversation towards the end I have to ask you about this one uh when we saw this um you know about the crisis which is happening in Manipur uh uh what is your view on this because you've urged the central government to intervene uh and do you feel that the central Government is not acting strongly enough or uh more steps need to be taken and how does it impact your state also do you think this will spread to

your state too uh of course there a very complex uh you know uh situation that we are seeing in Manipur I am uh very familiar with uh the state of Manipur because uh again I've been involved in um the overall election process and overall issues and the people and the leaders there uh since 2002 so that's my That was my first campaign there so it's like 22 years now I have uh you know worked uh in Manipur and connected with the people there so I'm very much aware about the situation uh it is very complex

and so therefore for me to go into the complexity of why it's happening what's happening and what is the way forward uh I cannot do justice in in in in a few minutes but one thing I can tell you very clearly that uh we need to intervene you know from the Highest level right now in this situation and it is necessary that uh a strong uh message needs to be sent uh politically that uh you know some action of confidence building has to be set up uh the problem that we're facing is that because of

the complexity of the problem without saying who's right or who's not or who's to be blamed uh I think the Way Forward is to start with confidence building and a trust and to bring in that trust some kind of a major step or Action should be taken from the government of India's side to say look we are serious about bringing in peace and therefore let's look at this and let's try to um you know make this particular changes or this particular step and then if we do this then you know we'll be able to bring

all the different stakeholders because I think bringing the stakeholders on board is crucial if the now stakeholders in the given circumstances they may not have The faith to come in and say that okay fine let's talk because of the kind of situation that has unfolded in the last many many months so how do we make that happen we need to now create an environment of trust we need to create an environment of some kind of a a situation where the different stakeholders say okay now that you know there's been a uh kind of intervention now

we will sit down and talk so if that doesn't happen it'll be very difficult At this point in time to create again as I said not here to say who's right who's wrong whether state government whether central government whether individual groups communities you know if you if you go into that debate I think we'll never be able to move forward uh what Manipur requires today is it requires us to now say okay without going into blaming game without going into the past without going into the different uh crucial aspects we need to realize that People

of Manipur today are suffering and people of Manipur are looking for peace to come in and a way to move forward bringing in full trust may take a lot of time because it's not easy the healing will take a lot of time but it has to start with a major step of confidence building and therefore we've been stressing on government of India that you have to give that message of confidence building only then we'll be be able to move towards the path of Healing and path of res resolution and some kind of Peace uh in

Manipur we'll still face challenges as we move along uh because as I said the the matter has been so complex but uh and as I said I can I can discuss the details of that also but it's too complicated I think you require a full okay uh episode only on Manipur um because it's very complicated but it's urgent you feel that things have to very very urgent and uh I we have urged uh government of India as a political party because I have uh seven mlas representative we are the second largest party in Manipur uh

and therefore our party leaders and my mlas are also met a few uh days about last week uh we had met in guati to discuss about this issue and we are again meeting uh in the coming days to further discuss we have written to government of India in the last many many months also that a and a strong step uh has to be taken and a strong Message has to be sent right um I have uh a segment out here which uh we ask special guest uh to react to this and frankly I also haven't

seen this uh this side set I need your snap reaction uh to this what do you have to say when you see a picture of abishek banerji where do you think his politics is today what do you what is your reaction no of course uh he has got a very uh you know a large kind of Legacy behind him in the sense his uh aunt is there uh a lot of People trust him in the organization um of course I wish him the very best and uh I hope things move in a positive direction for

him yes we have had our political differences but that's uh for the larger interest of the state and the nation so it's fine but uh I wish him the best okay um gav gooy now gorov gooy abishek you all three are second generation politicians what do you say about gorov goo's career path gorov goo in fact uh he's also very good uh friend Of mine we meet very often just to share with you uh so if you show this to me it'll be quite uh unfair but nonetheless you can obviously show this but he's a

good friend of mine he's worked very hard I see him as a person who's uh you know again very grounded he works very hard at the grassroot level moves forward in this last election also it was a very challenging election for him uh yet uh you know he has uh come out successful uh speaks about his U you Know full conviction and the grassroot level that he works with uh and I think uh in the coming days also there'll be a lot of challenges but uh he is again as I said working very hard again

I wish him also the very best A good friend of mine okay um what do you have to say for mam banery uh the recent uh you know setback she's had in the state because of that uh Kolkata doctor case um she seems besieged right now but quite a fighter right we all know that I don't Think there's I don't have to repeat that I I remember her uh very well because I don't know if you know this or not but actually for a very brief time we were actually in the TMC yes and my

father had contested my late father had contested once from TMC so I have that respect for her because uh you know that time we had worked closely and she had shown a lot of respect to my father so all those memories are still very much Fresh in my mind in politics we'll always face challenges and life in fact will face challenges I'm sure a person like her will overcome these kind of challenges it's always there but I think she has uh proved her metal more than once so I'm sure that uh this is nothing and

I'm sure that this will it's an important issue but I'm sure that it's not something that she cannot overcome overcome okay after that we have mul sangma your reaction to his uh again uh I I have a great deal of respect I should say for him I I'll share something with you which uh most probably have never said this in in in different uh uh in different um um you know uh interviews that I've had that uh he in fact uh uh has been of course my opponent in different levels but uh I have learned

a lot from him uh he has brought out a lot of uh things in me so uh when he contest not he didn't contest but his party and his candidate contest Against me contested against me I lost those elections he has defeated me he mean he means his candidates have defeated me twice in elections and uh to share with you those two defeats were actually one of the most important political moments for me in my life and I learned the maximum uh in those moments and um U you know I'll be very Frank with you

when I lost my first election uh you know for the first time I realized that you know uh grassroot Politics is not just about giving very nice speeches and uh sticking posters and putting up Flags it's about the connect you have with the people and the trust you have the people people and the kind of um you know the overall grassroot presence you have and uh I worked for 2 years after that after that loss and uh that's what then made me realize that that trust comes with many things like humility uh many things like

you know being in touch with somebody Whether you're in power or whether you're not in power maintaining that uh constant touch and I give credit to Dr mukul for making me go through that uh different um difficult phases in my life where I learned learn a lot about life and about politics and uh so that's how I see it so uh even today I have great respect whenever we of course in election we talk against each other in assembly we talk against each other but whenever I meet him out of assembly Sessions and out of

uh uh uh election mode uh we always are talking in good terms we are joking laughing and I always uh in fact I address him as sir every time I meet him because he's much more senior to me okay bin Singh yeah uh again a good friend uh we were instrumental in 2017 in uh forming uh his government I don't know if you recall in 2017 uh we had four MLS n PP and the uh NDA block had 28 and the Congress block Had 28 yeah so wherever the nppp block went would form the government

and that was the crucial time we of course had contested open against all the parties and we were lucky that time this is before I became chief minister so I still remember those very important moments and that's when we got to know each other a very challenging time for him right now very difficult time for him you think he should have stepped down uh difficult to say right now Because how the situation would have unfolded but uh yes maybe the situation uh you know could have been different I should say and uh but of course

as I said he has got his own views so I respect his View views but I think in the larger interest and context of things that uh obvious what we're seeing in Manipur today that yes uh I think uh if he had been magnanimous and uh done that I think it would have sent a very very strong there many say that his Crackdown on the drug trade uh that has impacted a lot in the state and a major reason why he's facing the trouble that he is facing is that too it's not as simple as

that one of the things one of the factors exactly as I said you know it's very unfair for anyone to just look at one angle that's true it's too complicated to be very Frank whether it's a question of uh immigration whether it's a question of uh uh you know uh drugs issue so many factors come In uh how the situation was dealt with at that moment in time what unfolded when the certain decisions were made and how things happened which you know were in uh you know his control or not in his control so this

that's the reason I mentioned to you that is very unfair to for me to say is this one line because it is all connected with a very large so the only way for us to look at the situation now is look guys let's not talk about that and let's talk about now How to move forward that's why I was saying so he has one of those challenges now very strong very very difficult challenges and as a chief minister in the Northeast I can appreciate the concerns he has but yes uh in this given situation maybe

one of the ways in which we can move forward uh is uh you know to see that if B you know b g would look at it from that angle uh and say that okay you know whether I'm right or wrong or whether it is let me you know uh be Magnanimous about out of the box solution yeah yeah so that could be one way that we could move forward but again as I said uh you know the compx the complexity of the situation is far more than what we can discuss out here but definitely

one of the ways forward what do you have to say about Mr Narendra Modi especially with regard to the Northeast uh again I've been uh you know very clear from from day one that um you know it's something uh I've have seen of Course um uh I I've seen him as chief minister uh I'll again share something which I've not shared with with others so there was one uh particular meeting I had with him I think it was about 2007 I think or 8 I can't remember and uh I was in an MLA that time

uh but I had uh gone for some work that was there and I think my late father had sent me and uh he gave me 45 minutes to sit with him and um he's so good at Explaining what he does and why he does it that you won't believe it that till now I remember the different things that he he he told me and I can at least repeat about you know four or five of them uh to you but I won't go into details you know whether it's you know about National integration about having

police from Force especially the female force uh coming in from Northeast into Gujarat he told me you know Mr s you know I've asked the Northeast CMS to Send uh forces women forces here because we have difficulty because of women forces don't join the police uh that would be one way to integrate the Northeast with the west and then you know we would provide them good salary and then even after you know 3 years four years of them doing service here they would go back but they would have some relationship in terms of friendship that

they would develop with the west and that would lead to Integration so I remember those kind of talks he you know he mentioned to me about how we transformed the power sector uh and the you know irrigation sector in in in Gujarat so all those things remained in my mind he mentioned to me about um how uh you know he had met a prime minister one day and he said that I mean then prime minister um Mr Manan Singh G and he was mentioning to me is that you know PM you know I never asked

for money he said you he said why Should we ask prime minister for money P we'll talk to the ministers and officials and others with PM we talk of things that others cannot do and uh then he said that you know so he said you know what I asked for I said sir I don't know he said I asked for satellite he said because I want the satellite to connect all my villages in in Gujarat you know so those kind of things like still stick in my in my mind uh and I do the same

thing when I go and meet him now I don't think he remembers that I that he told me that but when I go to him I don't talk about uh projects or money I talk about Big Ideas to him and say that sir this idea is good for Northeast this idea is and I talk of Northeast in general yeah uh and of course Mega line specific so he had had that impact in me having said that of course we've seen lot of concerns issues from the point of view of national Concern we have seen issues

in terms of uh you know local concerns for Northeast and other issues and all which of course we cannot simply say that uh he's the one person for IT there are many factors involved in it but that aside and those concerns and those disagreements that we may have in uh some of the policy and some of the issues that affect our tribal or the religious sentiments and so on and so forth I think from an Administration point of view and from Development point of view uh we have seen a huge uh impetus for Northeast I

he himself has visited more than 70 plus times to Northeast uh which is I think all the prime ministers put together it's more than that yeah so that's the kind of focus he has and I know for sure because every time I go to any Minister cabinet minister and who are very close to me actually most of them and I talked to them they said Conrad give us some projects PM you know so so he's so particular so it's not just him talking his ministers are on their toes because he has given a mandate to

them that you have to do something extra for the Northeast so I think these kind of things uh we have not SE noticed about Mr Modi is that he has mainstreamed uh the attire of the Northeast yeah that is also there you he wears yeah it matters a lot that uh you know the the headgear of the Northeast you Know it is it's a very elaborate thing in many states of the Northeast so he wears that and he wears it and he has mainstreamed it so people don't Giggle and people don't think it's only for

Republic Day Parade correct the Northeast headgear otherwise one how do you do a recall for people from the rest of the country Republic Day Parade nowhere else if you see Mrs Gandhi used to wear it occasionally and you see uh that uh Javal Neu one or two photographs black and white photographs are wearing the Northeast uh headgear but he wears it regularly when he goes to the Northeast corre every public meeting so you normalize wearing clothes so that is another step of integration I feel that's one of the things that I admire yeah I think

from from from a larger perspective as I said his thought process is in that line as I said of course policies you know acts rules Bills you know and different kind of programs that uh they want to do at the national level from a party point of view or from you know Sister organizations that are attached to BJP fine we have debates on that we have disagreements on that and it's not always that we will see eye to eye on all the issues but as I said keeping that aside these are the small small things

which um are things that you must appreciate uh that there is a sense of National integration uh that he pushes there is a sense of uh importance for the Northeast by ministers visiting like I talk to the ministers now also apart from the fact that you know so the pressure like have to go to noreast so you know so so that kind of a continuous Push by PM that because you see it's true you know when you see you believe yeah so sitting in Delhi you Don't understand the complexity of how things are much more

complicated to implement in noreast when the ministers go there and they say it creates a huge difference in the action that they take later on so I think these things are important so therefore yes you know um I think uh he has done a lot for the Northeast he has done obviously a lot for the nation uh and as I said even for me personally I have been meeting him very regularly and Every time I meet him I learn a lot from him okay what do we have on uh Rahul Gandhi uh again uh I

have not interacted much with him yeah I Dad no I did not I'm you know that's uh I have interacted once with him uh when I was Member of Parliament I had uh met him once uh but beyond that you'll be surprised that I have not had a onetoone conversation with him uh since then your dad and uh Mrs Gandhi uh they worked very closely On for quite a few years right yes yes that was there that was there that was at the time but but as I said but I'm just talking from my perspective

uh I I couldn't I mean obviously I did not meet uh um Mrs Gandhi at that time in I think Madame Sonia Gandhi of course I remember very very f i met Sonia Gandhi yeah yeah with Madam Sonia Gandhi also he worked I also have not met her very often but one thing I remember very very uh you know uh very much uh is that Madam Sonia Gandhi I think uh she was the few leaders who came for my wedding reception okay you know so that time I was opposition technically for the for the Congress

we were and that time the Congress had just formed the government uh with the local parties uh in 200 uh you know uh 9 and uh and that time uh in spite of the political whatever you can say uh situation we faced uh I found it very amazing that uh Madame Sonia Gandhi had come to to my wedding reception that Time to wish me and my wife uh and of course so as I said I have not uh uh I have not reacted I mean I have not interacted with uh Mr Rahul Gandhi but of

course I I strongly feel uh that you know he has got a lot of emotional uh you know outbursts and he's very much uh you know uh passionate in in one way but I think uh sometimes in politics you're required to balance uh a lot of things you may see something but you just have to maybe not talk about it I don't think He has focused so much on your state because the the way the Congress has lost out so much in your state no I I I don't know the internal story of what they

do or they don't do uh I mean at his level but uh but Congress has been there it's very active and they've got a see Congress the best part about them for them at least is that uh it's a it's a grand old party the GOP so and they secular yeah and and they they've got they've got their reach everywhere you Know till now so any Village you go you will find somebody or who's there so that remains with them but I think the question is how they introspect on how they will be able to

move forward I think that's when things are not clicking maybe for them and uh really I again wish him also the very best okay oh a great person again uh I remember um obviously my politics started with NCP with shat yes uh it started with with LMA but in terms of Party it started with SH and obviously anything I learned about party organization was under him uh I met him uh recently and I was telling him sir uh uh I still remember that you had made me the president of the NCP youth so uh so

I was uh um I was made the all India president of the NCP youth so I had I had traveled to Maharashtra Goa you know so many Himachal so many places I traveled all across the country to organize the youth Youth of the NCP That time so so he had a very important role in again shaping my organizational uh you know my qu whatever organizational skills whatever little I have uh he has uh been very instrumental in doing that and obviously I can't forget that okay so as I conclude I have to ask you this

my team tells me you're probably the coolest chief minister today you play the guitar you play football uh you're interested in cricket do you get time to do all that no I Don't think uh Kess is a very uh not the correct term to use I'm just a normal person that's all and then I think uh I don't think um uh any position or any kind of responsibility should change who you are as a person and I think that's important for me and so uh even when I'm sitting with some of my friends uh you

know we say look let's sing together so we sing uh you know we get the guitar out we sing some songs because that's how we grew up in in shalong so so of Course I did my studies in Delhi majority of it but the the time I spent in shalong actually has also um kind of you know um shaped me the way I think and do work so those three or four years I was in shalong were very very crucial because that was my like uh adolescence kind of uh age uh when I was uh

in class 5 6 7 8 and that's when I picked up the guitar that's when I picked up the love for sports and uh you know different things so did you play in school yes we Did we did uh you mean football or you talking about music whatever music or football so I you want to hear something funny yeah yeah so again this you're Delhi at right yes yes but don't take it personally okay so so what happened was um I was in shalong in St Edmund school which is again the branch of the Christian

Brothers um school so Columbus and uh Edmunds is a Columbus Delhi Christian brothers and chrisan so I was uh obviously everybody's into Football right so I went and I said that okay I also want to be into football so so I was the uh in class nine uh in shalong I was the goalkeeper of my class team but the B team of my class team so there's a a team and there's a B team right because so many players are there so I am the goalkeeper of class 9 a the B Team love the you

know I mean by B team so that's how I good I was or bad I was I came to Delhi to Columbus and uh I I auditioned for the the the football team for the of the of the school football team and I made it to the school football team of of uh of U St Columbus St Columbus not only that I was also made the captain of the school okay in shilong I was the B Team goalkeeper but in in Delhi I I was made the school so that's the differ in the SK the

Columbus uh football team is excellent it's not as if it's you not Seen the shalong team so yeah you have to see the shalong teams I mean really our boys and girls are very passionate about football shilong is actually uh and meal overall is is actually one of the um you can say football capital of of of soccer capital of India I think the craze you will see there didn't shuk also represent St Columbus football team yeah he did right yeah so like see I mean but it's again the flip for Cricket by the way

yeah so when I was in in in In in in uh um in shalong so I was like one of the better Cricket uh players uh there and you know in batting or bowling then uh I thought okay I'll be really good in cricket because I picked up Cricket in in in Delhi then I came back to so I was like one of the better ballers in in Edmunds in shalong and better batsmen and then suddenly I came to Delhi so you know not only did I not make it to the uh the school team

even in my class team also so I was the you Know bencher too much competi so so the cricket level is like very high here football football level is very high there I mean that's how the skill sets up because of the do you get to play any of that now uh I mean I do get but I can't not competitive but I'm sure no I I do play once in a while not not so much simply because uh when I try to play for um maybe you know half an hour or 1 hour the

problem problem is is not The half an hour 1 hour I play the problem is the next 3 days and I cannot get up but it's stress busting no to have sports uh to do something it's it's it's uh desirable but as I said it's not easy but music is something I still continue and um because I always ask my guest about physical and mental well-being in professions like yours uh where you know public service so you're constantly among people so sports music these I'm sure are uh ways to battle uh You know stress related

issues isn't it yeah um um yes uh I think the the way to look at it is two things the way I would look at it and that's the way I treat it number one is that uh of course I do and everybody should do what they love to do so even if it's a walk so like today morning also I went for a nice uh you know one hour walk in in L the garden I I I find it very relaxing I should say so I do that whenever I'm here and um I think

that's important so it's whether It's music whether it's sports or whatever gives you that space second thing which I tell my MLS also is that uh we should not look at the work we do also as stress that's very important because if that mindset comes in then you will not be able to uh to to sustain in so the way I I tell people because I've been doing this for like now 25 years I started as I told you very young so the way I look at it is that uh you know every time I

meet somebody I really Look at it as an opportunity that I'm getting to to help the person who is in front of me and uh that is the only way to to enjoy it and get a satisfaction and and sustain it is what I feel in families like yours when there's more than one person in politics how does family relationship does it get frayed at the edges no I think it depends on how they work with each other so your sister is in politics yes my my elder brother also he also joined later on uh

He's also in in politics and uh my younger sister also but uh as I said there is a very strong understanding between us and uh you know so as I said I've been working very very closely had been working very closely with my late father so uh so so normally as a party President also and as the chief minister do you not discuss politics when you get you do disc absolutely absolutely we discuss but obviously family is uh also very important so we always keep the Family aspect also in in mind okay on that note

thank you so much sir for being part of the podcast and I look forward to seeing you uh bring the Northeast closer to the rest of the country thank you thank you so much thanks thank you for watching or listening to this edition of the Ani podcast with Smitha prakash do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this Namaste J hind click here to watch the previous Episodes