Generative AI in HR: A New Chapter in HR Innovation

[Music] hi everyone welcome to an invigorating conversation on generative AI in HR a new chapter in HR Innovation carefully crafted by the economic Times HR world and hono today I have the absolute privilege of Hosting power voices from across the industries joining me are Sim asari senior vice president corporate human resources and business Excellence DS group shal Sandhu group chro ikra and Rajesh padmanabhan chairman Advisory Board and head Western India hono ladies and gentlemen thank you so much for joining us at ET Studios we are here pleasured to have you on board with us and

Andra traveling an exciting conversation today of course we are catching up for one pertinent thing that is affecting all of us today how AI is disrupting HR and the functions and what's coming up next for us on that note I'm going to straight away delve deep into this conversation and um Sim I'm going to start with you first so Sim if I may start with you the digital landscape evolves organizations are increasingly turning into generative AI to kind of revolutionize their HR practices and all the other Allied functions now the big question that arises right

now is what are these major Trends and opportunities emerging in HR due to the influx of generative Ai and how can they really prepare to capitalize the best out of them so thank you so much Saia very interesting topic and an interesting question I think the way generative AI has kind of barged into this world of ours there is an immense uh you know opportunity that is there for the organizations to enhance the way the employee experiences its uh journey through his journey throughout the period that they are within the organization there are several HR

trends that are um you know I think picking up some of them of course with the Advent of AI into the HR functions and some now because of generative AI so starting from the period when a person is a prospective candidate not a cand you know an employee itself till the time a person comes in Joins in and exits there's a lot that is happening into the world of HR into the function and generative AI is definitely um you know making it more exciting so uh take an example of the way we used to draft

job descriptions things have become uh I would say exciting now that you can have very personalized kind of uh uh job descriptions for an employee for a job role the way an employee comes on board the whole onboarding experience has undergone a tremendous change because of Genai it's become more personalized uh the the entire Learning and Development piece you know when you come in and then the talent is you know that you do talent management in the HR function that itself has been affected by the way generative AI is helped I think the Performance Management

has uh has sort of evolved tremendously and uh generative AI is really supporting that a lot so lot of Trends I would say uh right from the time a person comes in till the time a person exits generative AI is now H helping HR professionals to enhance their employee experience and more make it more uh effective and customized and personalized absolutely thank you for that s so rajes I'm going to come to you um very beautifully crafted by Cen that as soon as the employee enters a workplace and as they exit Genera I is there

it's pervading deep now with a lot of effects uh what is something that you would like to add here sure I going to cut this into maybe two parts um since I consult a lot with clients uh and I'll particularly talk about Trends that's emerging not that all of them are perfected right now but they're clearly visible and the asks are coming a little more visibly one is I'm going to take a plung at analytics and the second one is I'm going to take a Plunge at Advanced analytics yeah uh which creates more of business

impacts yeah uh those are possibly matured at about 25 30% right now but they could become really big so let me go on the first one the first one is all about the life cycle HR part of it so Simon did allude to a lot of parts in terms of efficiencies the effectiveness parts of it but more importantly the relev of moving and shifting it from qualitative to quantitative aspects of the life cycle for example one of the stuff which is really trending is people uh Enterprises which do a lot of bulk hiring how could

we improve show rates and what does show rates mean I mean I release X number of offers I'm not sure you know how many are really going to show up now that has a massive impact as far as the entire Enterprise the business is concerned so those kind of stuff I would still put that as basic then you know Flight Risk which is always a stuff you don't know how long people are going to stay with you and that unpredictability if you're able to convert with a reasonable amount of probability to say what's the life

cycle involved I guess that's a lot of value add and the third one is you know anything that you you possibly do with respect to merging the entire Talent space combined with the internal talent management along with the external Talent that's available that Fusion is also also adding a lot of value I would still put this under basic analytics these are not Advanced the advanced analytics which I was alluding to which which I was mentioned before are the stuff which is direct impact on pnls now how does this work the aspect of the aspect of

you know how can I touch ebit eitaa or how can I touch growth part of it uh for example the entire workforce planning uh is a multivariable model but you know there are lots of stuff that can be drawn out of generative Ai and why do I say this because these are not just internal parameters which you conventionally do you need to depend upon a lot of Avail availability of skills the the predictability of them you know staying with you the predictability of them really joining you so those aspects are really complex yeah I'm actually

working on a on an assignment with one of the clients right now to populate and shift the entire costs of people through experience density not that I've done that before but I'm writing the algo and trying it out so I think this are some of the trends that I see I think they're looking small today but they may catch up fantastic I think that is so good to know Rajesh that you're doing so much around this and I really like how you've plugged in the business side to it I think this is one of the

paradoxes that a lot of leaders a lot of organizations have tried to solve and kind of interwin the HR and the business side right we say that HR is no longer a silo function it is pretty much a business function now so thank you for just kind of summing it up so beautifully for us uh that brings me to a follow-up question and Rajesh of course I'm going to start with you on this that how can Enterprise Leverage The Power of generative AI to make more informed decisions like you said uh what what can be

like the dos and the don'ts for the leaders Who and the viewers who are going to watch us today and second of all the that uh if I'm going to talk about maintaining the human touch that is one of the conversations that have again really stood by us so how do you do this tedious job or I would say a very difficult job but keeping a balance of it so great great question and thank you so much U I'm going to start with two quotes the first is Don't Force fit into gen yeah I think

that's something which one us to realize just because the whole world is doing you end up doing without knowing what it's all about I think you buing up the wrong tree that's number one second is I think what we need to understand is Gen AI helps you define the rule it doesn't help you manage the exception which is where the human being come in so where where you need to be rule driven where you need to be driven where you need to have a pattern a model an architecture a defined kind of a workflow I

guess gen brings the how part of it yeah the what part of it which actually gets defined gets a little easily automated through gen which is the how part of it but if you get to the how of the how yeah and which is where the rational of you know a lot of things that we that we do on a daily basis and let me let me back it up with a few examples yeah hiring we all know the amount of work that gen does in the space of hiring whether it is sourcing or screening

or even you know basic interviewing or a lot of stuff in terms of even you know uh VR and AR that's come into play so all of them really helps you undoubtedly but it's still the ability of intuitively backing uh backing the person for a role yeah that's the human element so in every single life cycle there's the element of you know fairness there's an element of judgment there's an element of emotion that that comes in this is where I say that you know the exception is always managed by the human being and not by

ai ai will help you manage the rule so every single area even in the space of talent you know we end up backing people just come to think of it you know even even in this Hightech digital world we take a lot of bet on people right at the end of the day it's the it's the people predictability which gets converted to a human intelligence and which gets converted to an AI which eventually formulates all of and you know in a people function like this I'm not saying that it's not going to be displaced but

this 8020 principle is something that has got to be kept very strongly in mind and I would I would imagine you know if I were to use a simple analogy you know today AIS can fly a plane but would you sit in that plane I stop there so can I ask absolutely absolutely so I completely agree with Rajesh here that you know AI is going to help enhance the capabilities of an HR professional but the human touch will always remain you know you cannot do away with that after all what we are looking at is

a lot of analytics that is happening through AI looking at a lot of data but again as what he said you know is it relevant to us that critical thinking is what where the human beings have to sort of figure it out you cannot just apply it because everybody else is doing it to our context is it relevant how do we make it relevant the the emotional aspects of it you know when you're dealing with people it cannot be done by machines so the human touch will always remain you know yeah she like add I

think very interesting conversations there but uh you know to the point we are making uh geni is pervasive right it is everywhere I mean we want to live it we don't want to live It ultimately it'll be just like internet right it'll be like electricity it is going to be our uh daily needs somehow over the over a few years to come as we embrace it so the earlier we Embrace is the better of course decisions making I can't agree more the B the business decisions which need to be done they will be done by

humans for example humans want to be hired by humans they don't want to be hired by robots yes there will be a lot of screening pre-screening out of thousand CVS I'll still hire that one person 10 people campus hiring probably has seen an up search of how J can probably play a uh you know uh disruptive it it's disruptive how campuses uh can be probably managed so everyone probably need to up their game in this J space I think top it up to business decision and strategy I think I want to call out loud how

J can actually play an important role in the culture piece and married to that is the dni piece right and we all keep struggling with this idea and it's very close to uh the topic which is very close to my heart also that we keep talking about it every organizations have has put platforms forums right but how much of this is bringing an Effectiveness and real culture shift in the mindset and that's where the how of J uh will help us achieve those outcomes because the human touch will be in the what and why of

actually defining what you are doing why you are doing J I probably will you know let us know how to do it but ultimately the judgments the decisions the outcomes will be human driven and humans are there to stay of course so jobs are there to stay and a lot of positive I'll say Outlook to the industry Jenna is probably just disrupted the way we are doing our works a bit differently so it's pervasive it's going to stay it's permanent in my view wow that's that's a great sum up and I really feel that um

that debate of AI eliminating things for us and now to the verge of we are saying that it's going to augment I think that is why one of the most positive shifts that we have seen as a fraternity as a function together so that's good rajes I really like that cavar of for 80 20% I really like how you've put a number cap on it that there is a good possibility that's unraveling for you but the 20% mindfulness will bring in I it 50/50 rajes wow I I I okay so it's 50/50 for us maybe

he's a product guy he will say but I'm a Quant guy # Quant HR guy awesome awes anything and everything gets a number from me so I take a position all right there is some number crunching that is already happened in the background I feel I think 9 is a stretch it definitely is a stretch I love when there's a little uh discomfort in the panel we are really coming together on that that's a beautiful thought but like I was saying um you know rajes um shal s that I really like when there are are

different perspectives being uncovered in a conversation I like how we're moving from 8020 to 50/50 now so there's much more potential in the second half of the conversation but like I was saying that we've already talked about the trends that are coming in uh what we foresee how we can prepare better that also brings us to a very very important thread that kind of highlights the skills that are needed I think all the conversation all the debates in the world today talks about that skills that skills passport so I would love to cover that bit

to you and you know Shel I'm going to start with you now so as generative AI becomes more integrated into the HR function what are the top line skills that you would like to highlight for our viewers uh that they should definitely focus on developing and uh the idea here is to stay relevant and effective yes and I think it's a very important question uh in the realm of the topic we are discussing today uh because and I'll take a clue from a previous discussion because I still believe it's going to be 50% of business

skills or analytics or the high-end data driven stuff and 50% it's going to be still a lot of human and most of it is going to be uh you know driven by humans so that said HR fraternity needs to embrace that a lot ahead of time and prepare the organizations for the future uh uh HR HR fraternity needs to first uh let me first talk about the business uh uh part of it or the hard part hard skills there right which is whether it is to do with the business decisions whether it is the data

analytics side uh you know how much are you understanding data what is your own understanding of the predictive models of uh you know algorithms and reading them making them I I'm not asking HR to be coder but definitely understand some part of the uh you know uh uh uh canvas there so that when you are hiring when you're talking you're talking the same language at least uh so upscale yourself in the in the in the world of data analytics the next in my view will be job crafting or let me say job redesigning because that's

the key part of where the HR fraternity needs to come up and start saying and not which jobs will be redundant which tasks will be redundant where will they be mundane R where wherever they are repetitive right and wherever there is a need to uh you know have the emotion based sentiment analysis all that that J can help us with but ultimately decisions have to be towards the human side of the story right third would be organization designs right as we move towards dig you know digital world and the digital transformation organization are actually sitting

on the fence of you know uh we I mean I'm from Financial Services industry and how digital banking is taking a new wave alog together I think no Banker can think of it say 20 30 years back but today look at any any leading banks in the way they are doing this organizations have to be designed differently they have to be looked differently in terms of uh not only what job roles job evaluation as I said in my previous point but also to the fact that what will be the uh you know structures I mean

hybrid yes of course but metrics what type of metrics right will there be many to one to many relationships and how will they be defined right I mean we can talk about that but let me move to the soft side of the story right soft skills aren't going to go right empathy empathy empathy and I think that's my still the favorite topic between the geni world and the non- geni world uh I think nothing and when we move empathy to compassion I think that's where the next leg of uh you know the HR skill movement

will happen right now we are still between empathy kindness and you know this but I think we need to be much much ahead in the curve of uh kind and Compass compassion there stakeholder management right uh I mean uh there's no brainer there that uh you know while you are making such great CEOs learn the business model the pnls and all that there's a reason to make them also handle them in a manner that cosos understand that people question is going to remain right and there's going to be a lot of uh uh benefit from

the culture and the people peace which will move the organizations much more ahead and keep them relevant in the entire story last but not the least is the adaptability and Innovation I think if as I said at the beginning if HR is not embracing that ahead of its own organization in in their own organization probably other functions weren't adopted that easily so less resistance more progression I think that's the way forward I mean I can go on this topic but I'm going to take a pause I just add on to what just said um so

you asked about the skill set that HR professionals need to focus on and I think from from my perspective at least there are two that come to my mind where it is extremely important being surrounded with so much of technology I think having a digital mindset in the organization is extremely crucial uh it's not just bringing in technology but making sure that there is a digital mindset and people are you know uh openly embracing uh the effects and the advantage of having that technology around them and second as Shel said Innovation and having a growth

mindset again these are very important the third again which was also coming to my mind is the critical uh you know thinking aspect being bombarded with so much of analytics data having that uh critical thinking and making sure that this is relevant to your organization making sure that whatever you are uh you know uh adapting to whatever you're bringing in is relevant to your business scenario that is what is you know extremely important yeah absolutely let me let me add a few more I think picked up a lot from what they have said uh but

let me keep it a little distinct a few things that has not been covered maybe I thought that's important data privacy and data governance I think is like massive you can't be you can't be not aware of it I mean that's something you've got to be really aware and be up to speed because the amount of crawling that we do on the net we might as well be very conscious and ensure that you know it's within the legal and the ethical Frameworks so that's number one number two is emotional intelligence she alluded to empathy I'm

slightly building it a little more you know in the first question I was possibly speaking more out of my mind I'll balance it with a little of my heart now I think emotional intelligence we all realize that work is a subset of life and not the other way around so it's not balanced work life it's Balanced Life work we all realize that I think the world is transformed in that particular space so there the correction does come into play so the emotional intelligence is something that one thehr guys need to really be strong at so

I I get a correction now from an 8020 to whatever it takes I'm not Tak I'm not taking numic position is bigger he's agreeing finally I have to always agree you know I have to be on the right side of of my co- panelist but that's beautiful R of course that's the second one the third one is you know the analytics part of it I think both of them did speak in their own stuff but you don't need to be a tech gig you don't need to know but the power of what you can do

is still be scratching the surface it's it's humongous actually but don't really you know push yourself to you know to an extent where you need to know everything depend on Specialists yeah so I mean you know I come from the industry three decades and then in the Consulting world I think borrow experties I think you don't need to build all capabilities in know I think the pressure of the HR guys to really do I need to know all of this I think it's getting a little too daunting I guess don't worry about it there are

a lot of Specialists out there in the market please go and borrow expertise and the last one is social skills yeah I would I would still say social because the HR World actually many of times realizes what's happening in Enterprise They the last people to know you know the social World possibly knows it ahead of you so I think the model is so reversed you need to be really you know up there as well I added two more I think we have more research right now I wouldn't take a massive position on that but failure

management is becoming massive in this entire stuff which is like really an Uncharted Territory as you really navigate and move in the space there are a lot of failures that's bound to happen you shouldn't really you know you know get bogged down so take it in your stride it's perfectly fine the that's one and I'm a believer of not change but transformation this is not an era change management has become like a like a you know it's not a process it's a it's a basic skill I think it's a basic skill transformation is an advanced

skill and resilience I think building resilient organizations to the last point you are making I think that's very important that how do you you know come out of the failure and still go to the next level right so handling complexities large complexities you know never had precedences as this I think the ability to build that because HR navigated the enire covid phe I don't think anyone of us knew right right but but we did it right I mean you the four the definitely I'm exactly saying now convert that into a skill you know there are

going to be like many things that's going to come which we not never going to be prepared but having the basic tenacity and the resilience to really make it happen and some basic structure around it would help I think that that kind of really looks like that we've Unearthed a secret source with this panel so thank you thank you all of you I think this sounds very inspirational if I could say so loved hearing every anecdote around that and that really puts me on the last part of the conversation now and um let me just

start with you on this sheet first that in what ways can generative AI enhance the employee experience and engagement within an organization so if there's a blueprint sort of a thing that you could share with the viewers that'll be fantastic yeah I think let's start with some examples there right because I'll just uh uh Deep dive into that because we're just speaking around what has been what could have been done so I think the I'll start with the entire onboarding experience right the personalization and the hyper personalization of bringing an individual on board I think

that that creates a lot of difference and a lot of organizations are trying to make a difference through uh as as you rightly said either Outsource this you know pick up a product off the shelf product from the market and see how this entire onboarding experience can be justified making them part of the organization on day one culturally ready I think is no joke and how can you do it you can start a lot early you know in terms of when you have done the offer management side when you have already you know and you

can pick up clues for example where the individual is traveling where the individual is actually candidate is going to go for the next U uh I'll say social function and you know bring in some flavors from there and just try to personalize the entire story for the individual and I you know gone are the days of the booket and chocolates going to the individual I think I have I I know organizations and experience some of them where they send personalized books right which uh which an individual reads from a particular author for example and I

think that creates such a wow for the individual when this entire uh and and he starts to feel that the organization cares there is a special moment the value you have brought in uh maybe the other one and maybe uh my colleagues can actually a co-panelists can actually touch upon some topics on Performance Management and training but again dni piece and hiring on the dni side and how to ensure that there are less of biases right in terms of blind resumés in terms of biases going out because I think one of the failures of geni

will be how the biases can be uh t tled right and uh when I say failures of geni is the obviously uptick on The Human Side and somewhere we need to marry that together and when you are hiring the blind resumés the job descriptions which are again so person you know uh uh personalized to the individual I I I can think of a prompt I was reading that what type of career suits my aspiration was the uh you know one question and a candidate has asked so what job uh you know is uh more more

suitable to my aspirations I think I don't know if my dad could have also answered that right but now J is actually answering it so somewhere there is a there's a lot of what should I say uh trust factor I don't know how much ji can bring in that authenticity around it but at least it gives you enough clues in you know bringing the diverse Workforce bringing it uh regionalization you know ethnicities a lot of this I'm not talking only on gender right gender is one part of the story the other parts of it you

know in terms of someone um ability on the communication side for example how good are you in communicating and picking up those signals sounds tonality everything right so hiring side of the story is going to be definitely I will say it's it's disruptive there in terms of Recruitment and that leads to the culture and the dni piece and the sentiment analysis I mean chatbots have done the story around how much dipsticks they can bring in and there are so many products available off the shelf products available to do those dipsticks uh the idea is actually

how can you make use of these dipsticks right so do you want to action the decisions uh you know out of those dipstick surveys what it has brought to the table right anonymity confidentiality I mean real time pain problem for an individual I think that's that's what ji is solving us from an employee experience perspective last but not the least is the speed and the quality of the HR help desk I think uh that side of the story the shared services piece automating that entire length and breadth uh from higher to exit I think that

experience if it is consistent standardized based on at at the backdrop of your company values I think that creates a wow story for the individual yeah but I'll just uh again stop no I think that's very moving if I could see the least and it sounds very very positive uh but before I kind of try and sum it up I'm going to bring you s here what is something that you would like to add to this so um you know generative AI has uh the power of enhancing an employee experience in various uh you know

facets and with various uh sort of so sh did touch upon a short you know small part of it but I think where it personally touch as a person is I mean what does an employee want when it comes to an organization a uh there's a career development career path which is visible and he is able to reach that and there is a growth that he sees within the organization and second is when he's or she is doing well then they need a pat on the back so there's instant recognition and the performance enhancement is

happening right fortunately for us and I represent an fmcg of the industry in our organization we have uh we we have experienced Ai and now also augmenting it with geni in two areas one is the Learning and Development piece where there are hyper personalized learning paths career uh you know aspirational career Journeys that are visible to employees and depending on how a person wants to consume the learning it uh sort of throws that so whether it is in form of modules short modules videos uh at their own pace you know the way they would want

looking at where they want to go in the career that is where the learning uh happens right and second is when it comes to Performance enhancement and Performance Management so we are a sales-driven organization and we use AI uh based nudges for our salese which is really interesting because it is again very personalized I may be uh excited by the prospect of earning more incentives so I get a daily nudge that hey you know this is the kind of selling you've done if you sell this much more this is the kind of incentive you would

get somebody else may may be excited about where they are on the leaderboard listen you're on right now on rank three if you do this much more this is where you will become and believe me this has really helped us because that has automatically given recognition if you're doing well you get a star you get instant recognition amongst your peers and if you're not doing then you're getting a little nudge that you know do this so you're enhancing performance on a daily basis at a real time basis so this is how you know Ai and

now J is sort of helping us uh improve obviously the the business aspect of the you know uh as well and uh by subtly helping employees as well as improving the employee experience yes I think s that's beautiful and yes rajes I was bringing you in just on the opening note that this has been like a transformative effect so how can I not have you uh to come for this conversation I I I think I think a lot of Nerf centers have been touched here and I'm going to react a lot on my feet so

sure so the first thing is I'm going to construct something which is the 4C I think there are four C's that's touching I think she spoke about the culture I think AI is generally gen is going to touch culture capabilities contribution I say I'm moving from performance to contribution because I'm more stuck on the business impact part of it and finally credibility which is the entire space of you know how you see how you perceived that's the four CES I'm also going to construct an ABCDE based on what we spoke just now so the a

stands for all gen is all about accuracy and Agility correct B is a little interesting it can bring brevity it can broad base as well so you know the the power of encompassing and really narrowing it down condensing it or really you know going and explor you know exploring the entire uh like the Uncharted Horizons as you said exactly so that's the B true now the C is Clarity geni provides a lot of how clarity W communication I think it's precise yeah it can give you the Ence of communication and it has the power of

collaboration that's the C for me now D is all about delivery and also decision making enabling decision making that's the D part of it and the E is all about efficiency Effectiveness and the experience having said this I'll give you a couple two or three examples because now I want to pull it back from a 50/50 to an 8020 right so let me not an 8020 maybe a 7030 maybe a 7030 okay so for example I think she spoke about she spoke about something and which which is at a product stage which I'm testing just

imagine the power of unrealized potential people come and do what they do and they assume they come to this world to do what they're doing and they're good at what they're doing there's something that you're not even aware of and this unrealized potential is what gen can do I'm building a product right now which is at a at a metaphase right now now which actually can tell you a lot of options based on your skills what are the other options available yeah so that's the product part of it now go to the other part of

it again from a Dei Charter yeah we all have been like really come of age where we understand dni but it's still periphery yeah we still understand gender we still understand LGBT we still understand some bit of mental health etc etc and we're trying to be as inclusive as we can based on un Charters etc etc but do we still understand what is cognitive dni now can it be built let me pull it back maybe 7030 it can be built it's tough not impossible the new biases of gen in the workplace for example people not

showing up people like you know on Prem versus like remote functioning I throwing up a lot of biases and lastly I think the ability to really convert all of this into experience is also coming from the fact that that as I said I'm building on the first point I think work is a subset of life people have got much beyond what they do at work I think the aspect of that needs to be kept in mind in the entire value chain that we building if you're going to look at an employee purely from a work

standpoint and the classic engagement models that we were all exposed to uh over decades maybe we still limiting ourselves we need to slightly extrapolate this and think of life not that we will have all the answers but it's perfectly fine to you know look at some at least it looks like a good path to start but I and rajes I couldn't agree more on the last point I think we just need to transform this employee being an employee thing at work to something at a employee well-being level I think we are not talking a lot

about well-being right and where how J can actually help develop the potential well-being of the employee so that that employee brings the best back to work some and I think it's still I mean would we'll need products and products 100% products like that by the way so uh and and I know a lot of by the way used cases there and some uh meta uh products in the metaphase also where nudges are being given to look at how how you know the physical well-being the mental well-being did did you did you do your exercise did

you do your diet right did you do you know and we can bake it back to the kpis employee experience and all but I think we all need to up the game from that Employee Engagement story of being at work to uh to the to the being in well-being officers somewhere and I mean lot of organizations have these muders right that they kind of tap into their Workforce mood right in the morning and in the end and there's a pattern there's a dashboard that's right in front of you meter right but the wellbeing meter will

be how well are you physically did you exercise did you have your diet I mean there could be nudges can be journals they can be I'm sure you know we all agreeing to the fact that you know I think the shift that I keep saying you know it's not work life I mean if he's still using the word work life it's life work I think that's number one and second is you know we didn't build on the part of culture but I I have a there's huge potential I have digital culture meter which is like

you know I've kept the IP not made it commercial as yet but still testing but that's going to be the power is the needle moving the needle moving I sort of all of us can sort of agree here is generative AI is going to help HR and augment HR capabilities to provide the right sort of culture the right sort of tools and platform so that an employee comes and delivers the best of his uh you know his or herself in the organization yeah absolutely I think that is like a fantastic sum up so thank you

so much rajes sheal SIM for joining in I think it is about time that we move the needle and I really really adore this that culture has stood out in this madness in this rat race of putting out a pnl and a Aba and a Gant we are still talking about culture there is so much more Humane touch to this conversation and that makes me very very happy so thank you so much for sharing in your personal experience for inspiring us all and yes that brings us to the end of this conversation everyone thank you

so much for joining in stay tuned for many more all inspiring convers ations coming from us thank [Music] you