Bankless nation is the third week of flat Timber it's time of the bankless weekly rollup uh we got some fed rates to talk about David what did the FED do this week what are we talking about uh the FED rates also the jobs report so big macro numbers coming in this week how is the economy responding because the uh markets did not initially move to the FED bips cut that we got how many bips Did we get uh we cut some bips how many of them uh so we'll talk about all the macro new that
we got this week also Trump family introducing the details around World Liberty Financial why are they building it what is it what does it do who's on the team and what about the token that I think even like CNBC talked about the world Liberty Financial token that is being released well they they have to talk about these things because it's a president and uh speaking of Donald Trump maybe this is a tale of of Two Chains here so bitcoiners were enjoying watching Donald Trump purchase something in Bitcoin bar with Bitcoin we have a clip of
that and also down the street ethereum were having a different type of party they were uh celebrating a movie release that I think you've seen I want to I'm G to catch the details on that and then we also have big bad Gary gendler He's back at it he's got a few enforcement actions but he's going to be On the hot seat next week David it's actually going to be in front of congress Gary gendler and Hester Pur at the same time we have never seen that Showdown I'm almost more excited to see that then
I am you in in the cane fight David here's how I think this is going to go it's going to be like it's going to be the Republicans just grilling Gary gendler Gary G Gensler can you please explain yourself and then Gary gendler is gonna give some yeah and Then they're gonna be like Hester like what do you think and then Hester's gonna be like everything right under the bus everything that Gary gendler just said I also think is I think that's how this is going to go I I can't wait next week is going
to be Hester P week on the roll for sure but we got to wait for that also I want to throw out an apology so you are back in New York City right that's right yeah okay so last time when I was like David's on a Flight he's in Lisbon I said Lisbon Spain when I meant on you didn't CCH okay a bunch of YouTuber comments did and so my apologies for that confusing uh cities and their locations new software update uh that will never happen again okay i' add add that this one and we'll
add it to the Gren witch green witch uh what did I say Gren witch Connecticut green witch yeah something like that yeah something terrible all right well This is how we learn right this is how um you know the models improve here uh we got some Market updates we got to thank cracken for these are they beautiful Market updates they are beautiful markets they are beautiful market look at that green green green green green green green Green across the board Bitcoin start of the week 58,300 up 99.2% almost a double digit green we currently coming
in $63,800 when's the last time Bitcoin has Been up over $5,000 on the week bcoin $5,000 oh wait what's the percentage then 9.2 9.2 almost double digit almost double digits yes wow so you know it price is up but did we deserve it I'm goingon to say yes we did I think oh for sure for sure we deserve a lot more globally across the board about prices especially ether starting the week at 2340 up 5.5% on the week currently at $2,450 uh you're at you're at the one day chart so you're really zoomed outed Out
yeah that's that's why yeah still looks bearish when you zoom out but when you zoom into the week it's uh it's pretty still it's it's a little bit more bullish uh but nonetheless ether is at its 200 we moving average line uh this is a tweet that ledger status put out for and that that is that means that it's low that means that like ether moving average yes or or the 200 moving average has has caught up to Ether which hasn't really moved all that fast and so Basically it's saying that eth hasn't moved uh
over a long period of time Bitcoin if you put Bitcoin at its 200 we moving average Bitcoin would be $39,000 instead of where it is at $63,000 so if you are a bitcoiner out there you're just a Bitcoin like Maxi you're just insane crazy for for Bitcoin imagine how you would feel right now if Bitcoin was less than $40,000 right right that's how how either people feel okay it's real bad and imagine if Uh you know ethereum was like 10K while Bitcoin was lingering you know around in the 44,000 that's how we feel so David
tell me about your feelings this is the eth Bitcoin ratio it's low lower than it's been in three years in recent memory yeah I never thought that I'd ever see three again at the Bitcoin ratio but we were at 0.386 uh it was at 0.039 when I was looking at this earlier but man it's Hasn't been this low since like 2019 is that right early 2020 not 2019 all right so here's where we we can uh start scrolling back here okay so we are below 04 and the last time we were here is where look
at this may right may may 2021 where yeah man that's where ether rocketed from like high 1000s low 2000s up to like $41,000 in a very short amount of time May 2021 I remember where I was in May 202 look at this chart look at this chart the difference between January 2021 where we also hit that on the ratio and then may so we dip we dip below we the ratio but you're thinking of like you know how the sentiment we've claimed feels like 2019 in ethereum land and it really does does you want to
go look at 2019 look at the RTI 2019 we got like down to 023 I think oh 016 Jesus God we were de it's been a lot was so low back then oh my God I mean to Actually kind of think we're only like double that so this is this is about the time we started uh we we decided to start you know like an ethereum that's where we start podast you know yeah that's where we start thought that'd be a good time to do it yeah that was it was a good time yeah so
I guess uh feels bad man and uh for me I kind of like I had like a a crack this morning like I just like so I saw this tweet this was uh from from chiao whom we've had on the Podcast at at token 20 49 I don't know if you have fomo for missing that event H at all but that's a separate story all right all right but um this is CH saying literally every person I talk to at 2049 is beish eth it's so consensus it makes me uncomfortable and I saw that in
my timeline followed up by this L Laura Shin uh reporting that Kyle Sani is was giving a talk at token 2449 soul on course to flip ether yeah I'm sure Kyle believes that I saw this back toback in My timeline and I was like okay this is it it's ridiculous I enough is enough I am feeling like going full bull bull mode again and don't how're 2019 with respect to sentiment where the enti industry says it's consensus fading eth is now consensus because my perspective the bankless perspective has been eth is the most important asset
in crypto without ether the asset there is no defi okay I know other platforms are like working on This trying to get to decentralization but nothing else is close Bitcoin is a store of value if you want to lend if you want to borrow if you want to trade you have to move off of the Bitcoin blockchain you got to you go use a coin base or Celsius or some sort of banked platform so um I don't know I'm drawing the line here man we can't go any lower okay I mean we could definitely go
lower but like we're approaching some sort of just like it can't it's getting silly It's getting it's getting silly it's getting silly we're we're approaching clown World territory I mean we've been in clown world in the crypto space for the last like I call call it 18 months clown world and meme coin Mania I would kind of call synonymous uh and like under like trading meme coins and appreciating the rollup Centric road map are on like direct opposite ends of the spectrum like the these These are V diagrams that do not overlap well Remember how
last week you were like oh just dump harder on me like I want to see that ratio like more pain more fine I'm fine with the pain and now I'm just like come at me like come on yeah 03 let's see I don't care don't me bro see the replies see the comments I've got cash I'm BD I can find some cash mortgage my house do some Michael sailor here I mean this is kind of like a it's conviction territory for ether right now so now that you've Cracked Ryan uh I think uh there's a
product for you from our friends and sponsors over at index Co-op oh nice nice that okay this is right yeah so the product products that I would use that i' I've bought leverage tokens like this before so they're making 2X and 3 X long ether tokens uh by simply just using a and Unis swap in the background you know taking these two money Legos smashing them together into a unified product that is a single token uh so you can Just buy a 2x or 3x leverage token so if ether goes up $20 your token will
go up $40 uh and the idea here is actually you pay less in fees by using a than you would some per platform because a purp platform like you pay pay like a pretty high uh carry uh but since a has lower fee you can create a leverage position with lower fees and per and you can hold leverage the idea is like this is a little bit better to hold for a Long-term leverage than some sort of like short-term per rate uh so 2x or 3x long ether with a simple erc20 token uh in theory
these like 20 erc20 tokens could then go like be integrated into the rest of defi but that's that's up to the rest of defi but you could just you know buy a leverage token since we're since we're so close to the bottom huh yeah yeah you want me to back up my beliefs the only thing that's unfortunate David is um as a US citizen I of course live in a financial prison and uh this is uh not available if you are a US citizen so if you do not live in the US I'm sure you
can partake in this index Co-op goodness but um not if you live in the US okay well some version of you that's outside of the US the the Ry instance R TBT instance that's outside of the United States the fork option the I I would like to blame Gary gansler for that for this one but this is actually the cfc's fault blame We could still blame Gary the rest of the episode will shade some like shed some more blame on Gary there's a link in the show notes to that right bankless yes there is Bank
list. cindex Coop that's c o p I should also say of course if you're using leverage be responsible kids be responsible with that leverage uh Leverage is a and if you haven't learned that lesson yet and you are learning and you're using leverage then you will eventually learn that Lesson he definitely will I've learned that lesson all right so uh we talked about prices give me the crypto market cap what are we on the week uh you up really healthily uh 2.29 trillion almost at 2.3 trillion uh so staying away from that one trillion doll
handle uh 2.3 2.3t all right I got another chart for you that's moving up this is a Layer Two update brought to you by mantle that is the this blue line here what that is wow that's is nuts this is uh base Transaction so what we're looking at is a chart of the the transaction count for all layer 2 so we got all our faves over here arbitrum Opie lanaa got there's no limit on the base transactions yeah we got mantle here and the the one the outlier line is BAS so is a straight line
up is 4.6 million trans transactions a day what the hell it's shattering it's shattering all previous records on transaction every single day it's you know what's going on over there What's going on over there they have an A on okay well we're back to school it's this is what happens when like we have da that we have so much more da than we know what to do with with and so bass is like well I'll just consume that for free thanks yummy eating that yummy yummy da yeah this is too it's it's holding up the
Blue Line's holding up so active addresses and tons of transactions people going on chain look At that this is a good sign when people have cheap transactions they they use it they use it you think this is like a lot of Bot some bot activity too oh I think so well yeah because you I think if you are using defi on a layer two like one defi user will bring in like three bought transactions for every transaction just to kind of like snibble up that that um the me that they create snibble is a technical
term um symol yeah uh but like yeah so like there's Kind of like a leverage effect here so like one one human transaction creates three bot transactions I just made that number up but that's like directionally correct all right because that's just how defi for every human according and and defi on layer 2 is are fundamentally better than a defi on layer one because of low transaction fees yeah uh it's more efficient it's faster cheaper uh and so like it's a sign of Fitness I would say so you don't think there's a Need to build
a snibble resistant protocol here uh well I mean I think that gets into the conversation on base Roll-Ups which are sible res snibble resistance you get I love that you're just going with that dude app app chains base app chains I think are the snibble resistant uh mechanisms to prevent app app meev leakage so your Apple that won't be snbl at uh well let's talk about uh the race shall we let's move on let's get out of Let let's let's get out of here so so let's talk about Jerome Powell did he bring us some
gifts on the week there was speculation earlier this week this was the week remember we said it last roll up this was the week that pal was going to deliver us some news was he going to decrease the FED fund rate and the question everyone said yes the question was how much and going into the week earlier in the week the speculation was 25 bips you know I said bips cuz I Know you're a bip guy big I like bips y big bip energy here and then snel the bips snbl the bips we have 25
basis points or would he be more generous with his uh bip reduction would he give us 50 basis points well Elizabeth Warren put out this like fantastically cited well resourced well researched uh letter Economist all these Economist Elizabeth Warren everyone knows her as The Economist with like citations on ations on citations asking for 75 bips a huge Snibble out of the FED funds rate more snbl uh honestly it was actually a pretty impressive document like I mean I I fundamentally disagree onl with Warren with most things but when I read impessive docum this was like
a pretty comp I don't know if was impressive she's like look at these sources she's citing her previous letters here look at this some some of these sources were pretty good some of these were pretty good I I enjoyed what she asking for she Was asking for 75 symol 75 samples on the bits bips um I think that's not too much to ask is that too much to ask that's kind of a lot that's kind a lot but to to me like when I don't know what the hell Drome pile was thinking but if he
was deciding between 25 and 50 bips like I don't know which one am I going to do I'm I'm undecided and then he gets this letter from Liz Warren who's asking for 75 he's like oh I just have the freedom to do 50 now I Have like she just gave me permission to do she was doing the classic bargain thing where you like maybe she actually wanted 75 uh but like yeah yeah so anyways uh the day came that was uh what two days ago yeah two days ago uh the FED for lowered the funds
rate by 50 bips to now it's in a Range of0 475 to 5% uh pal commented we're trying to achieve a situation where we restore price stability without the kind of painful increase in unemployment that Has come sometimes with this inflation I think you can take today's action as a sign of our strong commitment to achieve that goal so uh how did markets react right when like everyone wanted 50 bips like people with assets want 50 bips we got 50 bips disappointed with 25 bips would disint only sbled 25 that would not have been enough
yeah we wanted larger snibble uh we got 50 then Marcus just like were totally welmed like totally welmed they Didn't didn't go up didn't go down like nothing really happened nothing did you feel anything I well I mean like I I got got a sense of relief that it wasn't 25 snibbles but it was the first rate cut since the pandemic uh so outside of the emergency rate reductions during covid uh the last time that the fomc cut by half point was 2008 during the global financial crisis yeah that was the last time okay and
let me give you a mirror image okay so so the question of course Is what does this mean for markets what does this mean for our crypto assets right so shortly after uh coinbase tweeted this they say history doesn't repeat it's time to break the cycle it's time to update the system I'm glad they said those two lines but they say history doesn't repeat and they were referring to a CNN Headline from exactly 17 years ago this is the headline from September to the day uh SE September 18th 2007 Remember 2007 uh the Federal Reserve
cut the target rate on short-term interest rates by half of a percentage Point Tuesday to 4.75 did the same thing 17 years ago David and um they're saying that they say history doesn't repeat the reason is because this was pre crash this was pre the precipice of being on the precipice Great Recession right so this is this is kind of a question right you could interpret the the FED move as um bullish If you want right okay okay now we have uh slain the you know inflation Dragon this is pow soft Landing now unemployment numbers
are starting to creep up a little bit but he's getting ahead of this with a a uh you know 50 basis point cut right now it's like perfect this is the soft Landing asset like the cycle is resumed it should be all good news or you can interpret this and say uhoh what does he know that we don't you know 50 basis points that's Not your average that that's not a small time move that's like pretty large and maybe there's something rotten in the underlying economy that he sees that we don't I it's like a
Choose Your Own Adventure with this type of macro data and I I've seen smart people who I consider good analysts on either side of this mhm I think uh the FED has been outplaying most people I would say uh and so far if you are believing in the soft Landing scenario the soft Landing Scenario is what the scenario is that we're getting and this is all this all been happening in slow motion for like the last two years like slowly the soft Landing has been coming while some people are always saying like well there's a
recession looming yeah uh and sure maybe there is a recession looming but it's still looming still out over there somewhere not here you want the ultra bearish scenario you you can get it from Arthur Hayes so he was actually Interviewed that morning like just prior to the Fed rate cuts and they asked him uh the difference between 25 bips and like 50 bips he goes he says this if they cut by 25 not much is going to happen with with prices but I think if they go 50 that will be a nuclear catastrophe for financial
markets this is what he predicted PR this and his reason for this that's two very different outcomes from a very small change in interest rates yeah his reason For this though is he says it's a signal I actually think it points to a deeper rot in the Global Financial system and that will come through in much more depress prices after the fact so that's his take it's the Deep rot who knows what trades Arthur Hayes has on of course you know it's just one person's opinion but that is nuclear catastrophe okay but there's only going
to be a nuclear catastrophe for financial markets if there is some sort of like Hidden leverage like in 2008 like just because they're cutting 50 he I guess Arthur is saying that like oh uh poell does see something that we don't see yeah as evidenced by him cutting so much I I don't know yeah I'm not on board on that one not on board with Arthur Hayes there but I guess we'll see and time will tell I think one thing that we know is going to happen eventually is the money printer will resume printing now
this was something else that's Significant that we should be tracking it's not just rates that we need to take a look at we also need to look at quantitative easing versus quantitative tightening so we got some indication that quantitative tightening which is what the FED has been doing the last 18 months or so uh is going to continue so this is a a quote the committee will continue reducing its Holdings of Treasury Securities and agency debt and agency mortgage-backed Securities so They're going to continue to constrict the FED balance sheet while at the same time
lowering rates now we will really know so those are those are in opposition to each other right like lowering rates is easier money and then restricting the balance sheet is harder money yeah is yeah that that that's kind of it uh I think the big question is when is this going to like uh this is M2 money supply we could also look at like you know the FED balance sheet and it Kind of has this shape look at this all the way from the 1980s it's been basically like hockey stick upwards until about you 2022
we got into cutting yeah yep yep Doan uh you know lunaa exp it's so funny that like the FED pivots interest rates and 3 seconds later Doan blows up like he did not last one second of high but tell me look at this chart and tell me what do you think is happening we got a little bit of a bending of the curve here on M2 money Supply I mean treasury looks s returning back to the trend looks like like we we escaped from the trend in Co and now like since we started cutting interest
rates we've been going back to the trend but the trend is nonetheless accelerating upwards on a parabola exactly not Ta full disclaimer this is a another that was ta that was ta all right there a Golden Cross God damn it J Jamie uh coot says this ultimately liquidity is what drives Everything and this has now turned decisively bullish so this is a liquidity indicator here of of global money supply it's got bitcoin price um you charted and kind of this blue line is liquidity liquidity Global liquidity is going up going up going up so that's
going to be that's going to be good the other thing though we got to look at is uh jobs so okay this is the thing that actually moved the market so when we got 50 bips like I said didn't move the Markets but you would all go and look at your prices bitcoin's up 9% on the week ether's up 5.5% on the week like prices are green so how do these things Square as soon as we got in this jobs report in yesterday uh or maybe even this morning yeah this morning us jobless claims came
in at 219,000 in this week of September when it was estimated to be 230,000 so we had um uh what is that 11,000 less jobless claims than expectations and this is the recession indicator if there Are less jobless claims than expectations we are less likely to be in a recession so what did we get we got 50 bips s nibbled and then we got uh 11,000 jobless claims also s nibbled so we got more jobs and 50 bips of easier free money and so that's what caused the markets to go up the combination that onew
punch of bullishness uh is is why the markets are up which is pretty cool yeah so be gone with that 2007 talk okay don't want to Hear it not on Bank list not this week we're just enjoying our our our bips reduction and uh good unemployment numbers enjoying my our bibs reduction our unemployment numbers and 038 on the eth ratio God you you got to accept the buying opportunity my man well no no matter what happens this is you remember we did that uh episode with Robbie from Black Rock who's like hey you guys are
pitching Bitcoin all wrong it's actually not a risk on asset it's not even a Riskof asset it's a little bit of both and what it is is a money printing resistance asset uh he promised that black rock would put a report out that covers this topic and they did there's a link in the show notes it's worth a read from my perspective but basically their take is Bitcoin is an uncorrelated asset that does well when there's money printing so it's it may be affected by the recession in the short term if a recession comes but
in the long run it's Correlated to you know uh as a non-sovereign store of value and to kind of the money printing story which regardless I mean let's go back to that chart what do you think's going to happen here M2 money talk I think it goes up here we go uh yeah yeah a pretty nuanced take actually on what Bitcoin is uh and black rock would know a thing or two about how to actually both position and understand Bitcoin uh definitely worth read coming up next one day after His second assassination attempt Trump did
an interview about his brand new Sparkle defi protocol and then also went to a Bitcoin bar in New York City called pubkey I've been there a couple times it's pretty fun uh and then also why were a bunch of ethereum gathered just a few blocks away uh what were they doing there and why were uh hundreds of ethereum gathered a few blocks away including myself uh completely ignoring the whole Trump thing at the Bitcoin bar Uh what were we doing over there so we're going to get through all of that and more but first I
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embracing the future with crypto and leaving the slow and outdated big Banks behind wow okay so that was uh Donald Trump on a Twitter video promoting his Twitter space that was incoming with rug radio one of the bigger Twitter spaces in the crypto world uh and that's where he he talked about actually not World Liberty Financial he didn't really actually talk About world Liberty Financial he mostly just talked about uh the crypto industry uh he said crypto is one of those things that we have to do whether we like it or not Donald Trump said
we like it or not yeah he shared that his nft projects have opened his eyes to the crypto world uh quote because so many people paid with crypto I was blown away I wasn't overly interested at first to be honest but I was surprised by the massive amount uh and so over uh a 100,000 live Listeners uh were listening live 2.5 million people have listened in total to this 2hour long Twitter space with Donald Trump uh fro who hosted uh rug radio uh and then a bunch of stuff bunch of people there what's crazy about
this David is this is the day after a second assassination attempt all right so I guess it's pretty safe to be inside your own home on a Twitter space though right but like this was I think the first Interview that he did really and it was about Donald Trump's defi project yeah crypto thing yeah what world are we living in dude it's kind of nuts it's absolutely crazy um should we play this this is um some of the founders Zachary fulman and Chase hero actually talking about world Liberty financial and what it's here to do
so what's the main goals of world Liberty Financial it's go question to the both of you right Zach and Chase it's all go to you first Zack But like what what's the goal but most important like how do you plan on like actually like accomplishing those goals yeah so I think rather than trying to you know rebuild the wheel it's to take what's the best of D5 and basically bring it to the everyday person who isn't already interacting with D5 Plus platforms build products that are really simple and intuitive and easy to use where you
don't feel like you need to phone a friend to get a walk through you Know and to just onboard as many people through you know simple products where they can actually start to earn yield on their assets not take a ton of Risk by speculating on you know the next meme coin but instead being able to use Stables that are Peg to the US dollar to be able to generate yield or unlock liquidity in assets that they're already holding such as ethereum or whatever other tokens they might have and for you I mean it sounds
like a pretty typical Collateralized lending in borrowing dii protocol okay so last week when we were talking about this uh I said this is kind of sounding like Kane Warwick's infinex and I think that's what I think that's what this is I think this is a easy to use front end that uses defi in the background and they just make it like super sexy smooth for people who are neutral about crypto but love Donald Trump uh and who want some access to financial services yeah what users are Inside of that ven diagram that they're crypto
users and just like pass Super passionate about Donald Trump enough to use this platform I don't know I think if they are competing against some sort of a def5 front end then they they really got to bring it in terms of like feature set user experience and all of these things and another question coming out of this is is the thing going to have a token what do we know so far yeah the thing is totally going to have a Token even the fact that fact was broadcasted by CNBC so on the CNBC team World
Liberty financials WLFI tokens Equity structure 20% to the founding team 63% for public purchase uh doing an Ico Donald Trump is doing an Ico which is absolutely nuts so there's a few things about this so one is it's uh you tokens making CNN right um and they call it Equity structure these are actually tokens it's not actually Equity that said I believe this is limited to Accredited investors only so the token is basically Frozen and only uh accredited investors can actually purchase it so 63% are going to be sold to accredited investors in this public
sale Ico like but not Ico in that it's accessible to everyone it's it's basically a accredited investor vehicle and they're using you know these regulations one of that you know regul regd or something like this they're using one of those regulations and also The the CNBC broadcasted uh doesn't provide any dividends or distributions also no official date set for the sale uh I think demand for this token is going to be pretty interesting uh like do people want to own Like the quote unquote Equity of world Liberty Financial or is this going to turn into
a Donald Trump mcoin yeah so I mean it it very much trades like you know kind of like a a trump Affiliated brand might trade ba based on mimetics uh let's say And and Trump trump fandom I think largely rather than like discounted cash flow what is this company actually worth you know how's it performing all these types of things so I think this could be similar some takes from around the community DC investor says love it or hate it CNBC is talking about defi right now thanks to the Trump crypto project could this be
a moment which rekindles ethereum Defi and renews interest in its value proposition for Wall Street types And normies God I wish I wish we did it under our own stee personally I hope I hope we can do it for you know reasons that we deserved and have earned rather than glass half full though glass half full I mean so on the on the Twitter spaces David I mean uh Eric Trump like the Trump this the sons of trump are using a and they were just talking about how you know various aspects of it are difficult
other aspects are are sort of easy but they're like using defi right On the main stage and like every news agency is like reporting this so glass have full is kind of DC investors take right yeah I'm just worried about it becoming just such a partisan thing like ether is credibly neutral and I hope that it is perceived to be a neutral technology platform and not like Donald Trump's like technology interest well but that's just like this one particular you know defi application could be again just like you know the the Trump fans uh My
my big hope is that it's not a scam and you know good good that it's locked good that the tokens are locked from that perspective right uh Sandy Pang from scroll has joined as an adviser to World Liberty Financial which is uh pretty interesting uh and then some other advisers as well Luke Pearson from polychain Raphael y yakobi from a crypto law firm and augle a crypto security expert and co-founder of glue uh augle is an interesting name uh turns out That's a pseudonym uh he went on L Shin's podcast uh masked behind a hat
sunglasses and a handkerchief so this person is an Anon and I find it weird that an Anon who's representing Donald Trump's World Liberty Financial defi project uh is cannot just like disclose who he is I find that odd yeah I mean I guess that's odd or maybe that's just the way crypto is these advisors are pretty interesting like Sandy like really Surprised me that mly crew of people dude but they are like many of them are Define natives like okay so if it's not a scam the the other thing that bad thing that could happen
is it could be hacked which is a worry because the the previous manifestation of this do Finance was actually hacked and lur Shin actually asked this Anonymous uh developer for an adviser to the world Liberty Finance project whether he had reviewed the code he said he had not It's a little bit concerning on the security side of security adviser has not reviewed the code ah this could go either this could go either way David we'll have to see all right meanwhile in a different corner of crypto and Trump uh Trump went to this Bitcoin bar
uh in New York City in called pubkey I think great name for Bitcoin bar Pub Key like get it public key Pub key uh and bought burgers with Bitcoin uh and so this is he's this is the owner of the pup key on The right uh Thomas uh helping Donald Trump out scanning a QR code I think he's paying with lightning network uh because it's like probably the one place in New York you can use a lightning network uh and Bitcoin yeah so Donald Trump used lightning to buy a burger at a Bitcoin bar that's
very cool the bitcoiners are very excited about this as the first former president you transacting purchasing something with Bitcoin so uh history in the making Here which is funny because he's also building a defi app on ethereum you would think that like the ethereum community would be a bit more excited about the the traction some of them are dude huge tale of two communities right now like most of the ethereum communities completely indifferent to Donald Trump's World Liberty Financial thing and then bitcoiners are just so effing stoked that he's at pupp like using lightning Network
to buy a burger well cuz it's Bitcoin is a simpler story all you have to do is be bullish on it and buy it right I mean umay in Bitcoin is mostly ceremonial I mean like true bitcoiners do not want to use a Bitcoin as a means of payment they just want to Stack their Bitcoin as a store of value but this is the high level from crypto condom our our friend here a former US president is we' we've actually used crypto condom tweets on The weekly World good a good handful of times like actually
a really good account so the condom says a former US president is buying a burger with Bitcoin launching a lending app on eth and promoting tokenization and you're bearish Anon maybe don't it as long as it's not a scam I mean this is good attention to the space hopefully yeah it just has to not be a scam and I think it's probably not a scam I think it's probably not a scam meanwhile and David You kept alluding to this that some of the members of the etherum community were doing something completely different so you you
guys were gathered what like coping over the eth ratio David no not at all like three like while Donald Trump was buying his burger with Bitcoin at pubkey I me and like a couple hundred other ethereum community members were like full four blocks away at a movie theater to watch the world premiere of vitalic the ethereum story Which has been uh a movie that has been being in production for the last like three plus years first ran into the uh This Crew it was originally called uh ethereum the infinite Garden uh Carrie and Zach I
ran into them in 2021 at ECC uh and they had already begun filming throughout covid uh and then I ran into them uh as zalo and Montenegro again at bogat they even came to my apartment in San Diego they have been around yeah uh they has been they Have filmed so much uh and so much of this has been just like this long story arc this uh movie has been funded by the ethereum community via nfts uh and so they sold nfts uh from people pleaser uh who made the Unis swap x x y equals
K nft way back when when uniswap V3 was announced uh maranti is an executive producer because he like donated some crazy amount of eth to the financing of this movie and this movie is finally out so on Wednesday the 18th this last Wednesday uh this film released the in theaters across 23 countries and 30 cities all at once at all of these different cities were all watching the movie at the same exact time New York London San Francisco Toronto Singapore Lisbon asemble Kev Los Angeles uh they called it a one-of-a-kind decentralized theatrical release uh sponsored
by Bas matcha pleas orow uh and the cool thing is because there's there's like middlemen here right like There could be Netflix there could be Amazon but they are Distributing it directly to people who want to watch it at ethereum film. XYZ and you can buy an nft that unlocks access to watch the movie on the website so there is no middleman you're going straight to Consumer which is pretty cool uh and it was pretty cool to also to see the the showing of the ethereum community there uh dimma but and vitalik's Dad tweeted about
it there's buan who uh was he was At the the New York showing uh Jesse poock tweeted out this is probably one of the most important movies in the decade uh and Linda Z the co-producer I thought her take was pretty cool she says uh well I didn't personally join crypto for any one person and there are countless members of the ethereum community that are what make it special I've repeatedly heard tonight an an in audience testing from non- crypto people that seeing vitalic was inspiring and Help them understand and navigate the crypto space further
seeing a mission-driven person who cares about what this technology can do for society makes the space so much more accessible to newcomers this is something that I've learned about storytelling over the years as someone who is brand new to filmm learning from my teammates I I personally just want to know how it was because you saw it so how was it what's the Rotten Tomatoes review here I loved It I thought it was great the way that the movie opens up with vitalic giving this like twom minute long rant about the origins of the word
tea in like China and like Portugal of stuff while he's like drinking tea kind of like sitting a little bit nervously cuz is about to go on to I think Devon Bogota to give his talk uh there just so is it more about vitalic or is it more about ethereum or is it sort of like ethereum through vitalik's eyes or is it telling The ethereum story via this character named vitalic like yeah I would say that one that last one is the most accurate I would call it 50-50 so this movie started off as ethereum
the infinite Garden focusing on ethereum and then it eventually pivoted to being um vitalic and ethereum story it's one half vitalic it's one half ethereum how can I mean how can you separate ethereum from vitalic how can you separate vitalic from ethereum uh but yeah it walks us Through it like it does some uh very old archival footage from vitalic when he was like six or seven uh with some commentary from his dad you know vitalic made um an encyclopedia of bunnies and he made this whole like World building Universe around like this bunny Universe
when he was 70 years old he made like grabs and charts and stuff it was crazy uh then it also took us through um the merge uh and the nft Mania was like a big role in this it also uh the Ukraine Invasion by Russia and Ukraine da was a a big role in this uh a lot of characters were there Danny Ryan had a very strong role Justin Drake uh you uh Ryan you gave the intro to to bank list welcome to bank list we explore the frontier of Internet money and internet finance that
was part of it um yeah it was pretty cool all right well I I'm goingon to go watch this so I think it's a live as of today at the time you're reading it and it's like $20 to Min this I'm going to go watch this tomorrow afternoon I guess like on my own cuz I don't highly recommend it was it was an absolute treat uh so thank you for the uh uh the movie ethereum film team for producing this and getting us out here let's talk about Gary he's being Gary again this week so
we we'll burn through this because you know Gary's been dropping enforcements same same same movie over we' know this movie who did He uh who did he try to prosecute this week well the answer is uh Rari Capital remember Rari Finance basically this is like um they were kids doing this they were kids in college college kids col kids freshman DM colid 20 21 they stopped the protocol in 2022 there was a hack anyway they kind of also just stopped the protocol so the SEC had uh has settled with Rari capital and the founders of
Rari Capital basically they claimed not only the Rari token as a Security big surprise coming from the SEC but all of the like Rari was sort of a a borrowing and lending protocol with with different pools so was kind of like an a except it had isolated pools for all of its liquidity SEC was actually C that all of those individual liquidity pools like the lp positions LP tokens those are securities too okay the good news is um they that's a security and that's a security security yeah so it's the the good news I guess
for the Founders of Rari is they basically settled with a kind of a slap on the wrist there's not a fine associated with this because Rari after the hack restored funds to anyone who's affected it was all good but again a president and I don't even know why they're wasting their time on this I mean the protocol's not even been active for a number of years so that was the first enforcement case RAR Capital the second is this fly fish case can you describe What the fly fish case is David yeah so this is something
there's actually this interesting intersection between like nfts and restaurants there's a couple startups and companies and projects working on this uh this is a members only private dining club where membership is purchased as nfts and owned by the token holder to gain access to restaurants and their Associated experiences utility token utility utility token yeah um set up this was a Gary ve uh product uh very yeah um startup product uh based in Manhattan because like the restaurant scene in Manhattan is super large uh so the SEC accused fly fish for conducting an unregistered offering of
crypto assets Securities by selling 1600 nfts to us investors so flyfish agreed to settle while it didn't admit or deny the accusations and also destroy all the remaining nfts and pay a $750,000 fine and will also not accept any future Royalties from the sales of the nfts so of course Whenever there is inan enforcement filings as you know like there there often is uh Hester Pur writes a descent so this was Hester P's take on the flyfish case she said the commission with the many demands on its time and re resources has inexplicably decided to
focus on membership in exclusive dining club she says this is not a case where there's alleged fraud it finds only that fly fish Club should Have registered its sales of membership nfts as Securities transactions and she goes on she says in our view the nfts here are utility tokens not Securities and the statements by the founders and the nft purchasers that a successful restaurant would cause the nft price to rise do not change that she goes on she says the Securities laws are not needed here and their application is harmful both in the present case
and as future precedent the flyfish nfts were simply a Different way to sell memberships why shouldn't a chef be able to sell memberships to eat at her kitchen table and to collect royalties on resales of these memberships nfts are a promising way to allow creative people such as chefs musicians or visual artists to monetize their talent and she says experiments like fly fish Club are not a threat to the American investor so like why are you doing this Gary gendler in the SEC that's good old tester purse I Love how the SEC is gay keeping
art and club membership and utility I mean like what we they just want useless J PS I suppose once you associate any real world utility then it's suddenly illegal so some good news pushing back against this chair Patrick McKenry and whip Tom Emerson Gary a letter in which they accused the SEC of putting a thumb on the scale and required clear answers on the how the SEC views airdrops in the crypto industry so quote by prohibiting Americans from participating in aird drops the SEC is preventing crypto users from fully realizing the benefits of blockchain Technology
uh and so really great letter which was talking basically saying hey airdrops are an important way for these protocols to decentralize themselves stop making them illegal is preventing these protocols from becoming decentralized in the first place by preventing air drops from happening at all uh and so just really putting in a Lot of pressure and they asked for uh responses from the SEC from three specific questions uh the sec's posture is that certain transactions in which digital assets that are given away for free without payment satisfi the invest investment of money prong under the howi
test and therefore our Securities uh transactions in recent court filings the SEC has taken the position that digital Assets in and of themselves are not securities does the SEC believe that Giving away non-security digital assets for free implicates the Howie test if so under what circumstances and Arrangements uh there's actually five total questions I think that that a very good question my can I read my favorite one my favorite one is has the SEC ever considered the potential for loss of economic growth in tax revenue caused by its treatment of airdrop digital assets as Securities
you make aird drops illegal and Americans can't collecting Taxes on them so you know no tax event attention IRS I would love to pay you guys the taxes that I would have collected had I been able to receive all these aird drops but I can't because I never collected them so you don't get any money this is what's crazy and this is what's cool the timing of all this the setup for next week as we mentioned in the intro to this entire episode is the entire all the commissioners of SEC will be in front of
Congress including Gary gendler which he has visited Congress many times but also people like Hester purse the denters at the SEC and so they are going to be asked I think these same questions by members of the Congress who are very informed on this the hearings have already started not with the the commission but with kind of like I guess some Preamble type cases so we've been seeing some glimpses of that this week but next week will be the main event and I for one am looking very Forward to the clips that come out of
that yeah there's going to be a lot of content to cover hopefully some hot clips of Gary sweating uh next week so we'll talk about that but before that coming up next vitalic delivered a keynote in song form at token 2049 uh the Zora app taking us main stream I know Ryan was playing around with his app so I want to get his takes and then also another svm on ethereum another layer two uh so we're going to talk About all that and more but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors
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like an insane number honestly there's some like bar chain Side Event at token that had room for Like I don't know like 200 300 people and there was like a 1,000 person line out the door to go into the bar side of it like I I think because the the United States the SEC our government choke point 2.0 has just pushed so many users s to Singapore uh and and also Dubai where token is also held so like there's been this massive shelling point that the East has like all of the crypto users now because
we're pushing him out of the United States and so it's like This is like I've been I've called this I've heard this be called like the Super Bowl for BD in crypto so so many people are here Ben Lake off from Ben benlet centers is there taking a bajillion meeting so everyone's over here and fatal goes up to deliver the keynote and starts singing in both Japanese and anglish yeah we just played the English stuff right like he he has he's also singing in Japanese uh and in front of thousands of people thousands of people
And then like hundreds of thousand if not Millions who saw these clips like go viral online right I just saw this everywhere uhuh Okay and like that was not was that just the start of the keynote it the start of the keynote but that's not it was either the start or the end I don't know he also gave a keynote which uh I think will be summarized as we are no longer early to crypto but we are early to crypto being usable that's a a line from him uh he Said Hefty transaction fees have ended
up killing at least the original wave of exploration by those seeking to use Bitcoin as currency ethereum has suffered the same problem with users in recent years paying as much as $50 to transact using eth fast forward to 2024 ethereum transaction fees have dropped to almost nothing thanks in part to several major upgrades such as EIP 4844 you hear that uh we need to satisfy the needs of mainstream adoption we need to Hold on to the open source and decentralization values at the same time so he's basically like we can have both we can have
mainstream and we can also have decentralization his message was like there's eat both pills right blue pill red pool pill eat the both do the purple pill thing we can have it all that was one of his main messages it's not a binary option and like that's always been the ethereum perspective is like we can do we can have everything we Can do everything it just takes a little bit of engineering to get there yeah so it was great I I'm waiting for like the entire produced version of the keynote so I can like watch
it all but um we're just clip people like uh like smartphones yeah that's right actually you know that brings up an app experience I had this week that I thought was actually absolutely uh fantastic that was an example of everything that vitalic was saying is Like purple pill is maintaining decentralization and also being like as mainstream ready as I've seen which is Zora so you know Zora is a a layer two um they released an app I'm not sure when they releas Le maybe like a week ago uh I iOS only so iPhone and for
me the the experience it uses privy in the back end the the wallet experience felt very much like web 2 right I just sign up with with email I didn't need uh seed phrase it felt very like venmo esque When you do transactions on uh in the Zora app to instant so it was fast was no gas fee and the main function of zor of course is like uh buying like minting things and so it's like think of an Instagram except every post is something that you can mint so Zora is hoping a Creator economy
like Springs up out of this and so the verb is ownership the verb is minting the the verb is trading and also the verb is if you're a Creator earning inside of this economy and all Of this the great thing is because it's a layer two it is secured not you know once it gets to stage two but is in the process of being fully secured and having the same property rights as ether the asset and the denominator for all of this value all the money that's being created is actually ether they call it um
a subunit of ether so one one millionth of an ether a micro ether if you will in the zor app they're they're trying to meme Sparks into existence Whereas they're like trying to you know dollars have cents well one millionth of a an ether in the Zora app is called a spark and these are the the atomic units you can you can kind of earn anyway they put it all together in a way I don't know if the creater economy people will actually want to buy like jpegs and crypto and this sort of thing but
this is the first time we actually have a mainstream ready app where we can try these things and that was exciting to me And I think is example of what vitalic was saying is where you get the mainstream accessible capability where this just feels like a regular app but it's all secured on top of ethereum there's not decentralization tradeoffs I think uh also in the show we talking about if you want to go watch the ethereum film you go buy the nft and then you can access it well I mean nfts to watch a movie
at jpeg same same same format true uh and so we like ticketing Has always been like this ancient use case of crypto that we've never really been able to unlock and you can kind of see put those two pieces together like you get a ticketing experience we're here we're ready I I do think we're we're not early to crypto maybe in terms of price appreciation for everything but we're definitely early to crypto being usable so second Salon of virtual machine chain has arrived to ethereum it's a layer 2 this is atlas out of the Ellipsis
team Ellipsis has been built this in stealth for like a really long time now uh and everyone's known about it he like the worst kept secret in uh Ellipsis labs this is a salana defi team that has built a phoenix which is an order book decks on salana uh and now they're building Atlas uh a salana virtual machine layer 2 on ethereum so they call this a custom hyper efficient implementation of the svm uh Native bridging data availability uh and an Enshrined Oracle that Co I was wonder if you pick that out so an in
price Oracle is that what we're talking about I mean if you're going to have an onchain Dex optimized platform then in Shrine Oracle kind of makes sense uh coming in with block teams at 200 milliseconds which is 50 milliseconds faster than arbitrum 1 so arbitrum is now not the fastest rollup on ethereum it is now this Salon of virtual machine rollup well they're not they're not main Net yet so we should say that also notet in Q2 2025 so arbitrum still got that title for a while yeah the private test net is live public test
net available later this year uh and of of course this is going head-to-head with Eclipse uh so we have these two Salon of virtual machine layer 2s on ethereum both trying to grow adoption using the svm uh May the best svm win love it so David I I hate to be the countdown guy but now permissionless is uh just it's less than Three weeks away which means your your fight with Kane Warwick is less than three weeks away three three weeks and one day oh have you seen pictures of Kane lately I mean he's looking
I mean he strong he's looking like Wolverine's well he's looking he's looking skinny cuz the guy's got to come down 15b true that's true yeah dude my my day lately have my days have been doing podcasts going and doing as much sprins as I can uh and then eating until the day over That's right that's what should be doing because I have to go game well don't you have to spar too don't you have to fight like practice yeah I got sparring practice tonight yeah I got to go not break a ribat well if uh
you bankless listener want to wish uh David good luck not farewell but good luck then and you're going to be at permissionless you got to come to the permissionless party this is on Wednesday October 9th so that'll be like What two days before your fight and uh that's the two days before my fight yeah be buying David you know drinks like whatever you want I will not be drinking not Dr he's going be but you can if you're there cuz we're going to it's going to be held in bar we will be paying for your
drinks there'll be free drinks at the bankless party for bankless Citizens only for bankless Citizens so if you are listening to this on bankless uh premium RSS feed because You're Bank list citizen you get into the party uh because the part is for you uh and so come hang out with me Ryan and the rest of the bank list team uh previous podcast guests that are going to be at permissionless uh it's gonna be fun it's gonna be great there's a link in the show notes uh so you can go and sign up for that
party bankless goes to permission list moment isend this week we're going to show you the uh the trailer for the ethereum film that we Were talking about earlier in the episode and got to end with this of course you know crypto is risky you could lose what you put in but we are headed west this is the frontier it's not for everyone but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey thanks a lot our lives are increasingly on the internet the way that these companies are abusing us is messed up we have to change
the Trajectory okay that's probably the bravest I've been around bugs in years metallic he's the engineer recognized as the inventor of a the the blockchain movement's biggest celebrties become something like the philosopher K crypto oh God why are people listening to me I'm just a guy theic has been on a global campaign e thean has the potential to disrupt the Giants of the tech World it could be used to building this new Internet they're saying this is the way the internet was meant to be because no one person can control it we're building infrastructure that
the whole world can enjoy this infinite Garden Technologies very rarely stay the same as they are envisioned by their creators it's just badshit crazy out here they want the janitor to be at the same level as the person at the top not everyone in the crypto space is just is in it for The ideals a lot of people really do just want to make lots of money currently theorum uses something like the energy consumption of Argentina you know Financial incentive is like a fire you can use it to keep yourself warm or you can use
it to your house down I think anyone who thinks they understand exactly where it's all going they're lying to you or lying to themselves this is an important set of upgrades that fundamentally improves What ethereum can do people seeking a deeper kind of democracy in this digital space we need to be involved there are some things that are worth making a Dan over food medicine thank it's this next evolution of coordination for Humanity there are hundreds of thousands of people across the world that are building things we seeing of resurgence of idealist dreams of the
Cyber Punk world in the 1990s there is no off Switch you've created life
