I've got grego Gallagher here also known as kinobody we have both been fans of walking at minimum 10,000 steps per day and I wanted to kind of go back and forth and share some just different benefits from two different sort of perspectives yours and mine in terms of the benefits of Simply walking for fat loss so I'll kind of kick it off with you because you you take a a very realistic sort of holistic approach to this where sometimes I'm a little bit more granular and scientific and boring whereas yours is like pragmatic but first
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a lot of people know uh very fascinating stuff they have it in either a protein powder form which I recommend it's a whey protein along with urethan a they have it in a powder form or if you're a capsule person you just straight up take the capsules I actually notice how I feel with it within a couple of weeks of taking it so very fascinating stuff but as you get older it becomes even more important I recommend the protein one because I think we all could use the protein and use the recovery aspect of your
lithin a as well right yep so here's what I'll say one if you want to get lean nutrition has to be dialed you cannot out exercise a bad diet now once you have nutrition dialed walking can literally turn you into a fat burning machine if you can just start walking more you will get lean a lot faster in fact walking Burns a moderate amount of calories you're not going to burn as much as running but it doesn't increase your hunger it doesn't deplete your your recovery abilities and so if you can just train yourself and
just learn to just walk daily you know I actually recommend 10,000 steps is a good starting point 12,000 is really good and 14 is I find when you really become that fat burning machine and just the fat melts off as long as you have your your nutrition dialed and the cool thing with walking is people think oh I got to get 10,000 t a day it's going to take all this time 12,000 you can make walking very very functional you can either walk with a friend so get that social benefit you can take a work
call business call on the phone sometimes just to get in the winter in Canada just to get my steps in I'll call someone on my team or I'll call a friend and I'll just walk in circles in my kitchen just to kind of finish off my steps so walking can be um very very beneficial you can also walk and learn you can listen to an audiobook you can listen to a podcast You' be listening to us talking right now and walking and so you almost want to program in this is the most effortless way to
in to induce fat loss you want to program walking into your day so that you get 10 to 14,000 steps automatic effortless when you're traveling it's amazing to walk and explore a new city um so I often when I travel sometimes I'll even lose weight because I'll even do more steps CU I'm exploring a really really cool City I'm walking with a friend um and I'll even push the envelope even higher to like 16 to 18,000 steps a day but crazy enough our hunter gather ancestors on average walked 16 to 17,000 steps a day they
were walking machines and so the average American is they're not getting 10,000 they're getting like 5,000 steps a day and so when you can increase that and get up to the 10 to 14,000 Sweet Spot it's so much easier to lean down I have all of the people that do my programs I push you know getting the short fast every day hitting the correct amount of nutrition hitting your three key lifts and then the really the fourth one is walk walk walk walk walk walk and it it makes a powerful difference and I've tested it
where I've I've gotten lean you know I've I've walked more I've walked less and it makes such a important Improvement but that's not not really it walking like if you kind of track your sort of your mood you actually feel so much better when you get outside and you get the steps in when you get outside you you you get like 12,000 steps a day and you're outside you're walking you get sunlight your mood is boosted so the big challenge today is that that people simply they wake up they get in their car they go
to their office they're sitting down they get back in their car they go home they walk to the fridge and then maybe they do an intense workout but even just doing an intense workout four days a week is not enough to really keep your metabolism where you want it to be you have to program in the walking it actually Burns a lot more calories people think if you get the correct amount of steps oh totally man and people like people will bag on it because say it doesn't burn as many calories as running okay that
is absolutely true but the percentage of fuel that you use as fat with walking is significantly more so even though the absolute amount of calories might be less as a percentage you're tapping into much less muscle and you're oxidizing much more fat so if you have the ability to go out and go for a walk and take a work phone call or something on a walk like it is a much better use of your time that is longterm going to be much more muscle sparing and if you keep your muscle on you your resting metabolic
rate's going to be higher so if you're looking at return on investment with your time if you're after V2 Max and you're after cardiovascular like endurance and fitness I'm all for that I'm a runner like I love it but that's a different category whereas walking is like hey this is good for fat loss I wanted to uh mention something else because you mentioned uh maybe something that people don't always think about like there was a study published in indin reviews this is what I do I just talk about random studies but it was interesting because
they found in the study that cities that were walkable so cities that like encouraged more walking just by having sidewalks and stuff like that had a 43% obesity rate which is still very high but compared to cities that were not walkable they were between 53 and 60% depending on where they were so significant and that's just not even looking at the amount of people that walked that's just by simply creating an environment that encouraged walking right yeah that's a huge difference just for that little variable well if you look at like it doesn't sound like
a you know when you're looking at all people but additionally they found there was a 30 to 50% less risk of diabetes in a walkable City so and that's independent of obesity so just because people were encouraged to move more they were sucking up blood glucose better into their cells so their blood sugar was lower so it's it's like these other things that people don't always realize U and just to have some fun with this because I know you're big on the on the testosterone side walking I can't remember the study right off hand but
we can put it I think I've seen this one post it was like yeah if you walk more than 8,000 steps it was like the risk of hypogonadism like you're basically just having super low testosterone was almost like nil compared to people that walked less than 4,000 and then you mentioned something about about getting sunlight then you've got the whole like huberman talks about the skin brain gatal axis so if you're out in the sun that's good for testosterone production so hey what do you know go out for a walk in the sun yeah you
know what it is actually such an important lever for General Health and for staying lean so I actually think it's like non-negotiable doesn't like everyone should be walking the bare minimum let's say you're doing a lot of training is okay get 8,000 steps a day but I found the 12 to 14,000 is awesome and and again the the one thing I'll push on is that with training there's a cost so doing a hard running workout there's a recovery y cost um you know there could be that when you're lifting heavy and then you're doing a
lot of running there could be like a being pulled into two directions gaining muscle staying more more uh slim on and slender um but with running and a lot of cardio workouts you're going to deplete some willpower it's especially for someone that's not used to doing running it's going to take some willpower and it's also going to stimulate your hunger response and some people are more sensitive to that some people don't find it it's more individual but for me if I'm doing like hard cardio workouts I get hungry now what happens so you don't want
to look at exercise in a vacuum some people look at exercise in a vacuum oh I burn 800 calories you know I burn a th000 calories I burn whatever it is and then all of a sudden their appetite's way higher so they end up eating more so what's the actual net benefit if you burn 800 calories but then your appetite is increased 500 it's only a 300 calorie net benefit and so with walking either it doesn't increase your appetite at all or in some cases when you're someone that's staying in you're snacking you're getting Cravings
it can actually reduce the hunger and the Cravings because you're getting outside you're doing something you're not thinking about food and so walkking actually I find has a greater net benefit for inducing calorie deficit than doing a lot of running where you're going to have an increase in hunger uh and you guys can like if you think about it like an if you look at like an athletes appetite athletes are known for just being able to eat so much cuz they're burning and they're stimula the appetite so walking I find is literally a secret weapon
um and the Really the key is to turn yourself into like a walking machine you know so even if you live in a city that's not that walkable you know go to a park walk for 30 minutes meet a friend for a walk go into the part of every town has a walkable part you might not live in it but go to that town and then park your car 15 minutes away get a go for a walk I was with with you know I have an inner circle so I have guys that are in my
little Inner Circle we meet up you know we meet up uh every 3 months and it was so cool to see because we finished this big dinner in Miami and for sure we pushed the envelope on this dinner we went over but we're having fun you know went in Rome and then you know couple of my guys in my inner circle were like let's get some steps in and I'm like sweet let's do it I like that's so we finished a big dinner we got a nice walk in and it gets the conversation going a
lot of times if you're if you know you your best conversations when you're walking with someone and you're moving and then just your your mind is more still and ideas just kind of flow out so there's a huge benefit Beyond simply improving your health and and burning calories and making it easier to get lean besides all that there's huge benefit for creativity for mood for socializing for ideas so I actually have to like I have to walk I I see a massive massive difference you know it's also super scalable and like there's so many ways
that you can make it harder if you do need to level it up with minimal equipment right like you can say okay yeah I'm I'm very curious about yeah for one uh I can't remember the study but I mean we could pull it but it's like simply changing the terrain you walk on changes the amount of calories quite significantly depending on what it is so like if you were to go like walking on grass but a perfect example is walking in sand right so it's like everybody knows that walking in sand like torches you like
it's hard like calvs are burning everything so there's always ways to scale it and that's what's really nice is like super low impact so that never changes unless you're doing like some crazy step Downs or something but like okay if you start going on uneven ground like that's a whole different ball game and like those micro movements those are the millimeters that matter when it comes down to stabiliz your muscles but also just you know that extra 0.2 calories per step or whatever right like just by having to oh I got to step over this
rock so little things that make it scalable then there's the obvious things like putting a weight vest on right um you know if you want to look totally like Richard Simmons put some ankle weights on but like these things do make a difference so it's super scalable because people think okay while walking I've checked that box the next logical step is for me to start jogging that's cool if you want to be a runner like more power to you that's all great but that starts putting you into a different category like the thing about walking
is it's passive it's not it is exercise but it's also just life and that's what I like about it but there's ways to like Elevate Life right you know so for me it's like okay I'll take my three-year-old daughter and we'll go for a walk and it'll be a slow walk for the first couple miles and then she might ask me to carry her and I'm like sweet get on my shoulders now I just elevated my walk a little bit more right so it's infinitely scalable like you can and then if you're like okay I
want to turn this into an actual workout all right well then you got sled PES then you got farmer carries like you could keep going and it I mean eventually very interesting yeah one of the things I'll do is I'll walk and then then if I see a nice hill I'll turn around and I'll walk up the hill backwards it's good for your knees and stuff so I'll do some I'll mix in a little bit of backwards walking here and there um I like the idea of Karen Karen a three-year-old if you got a daughter
a son that's good and then borrow one yeah borrow oneor so you know I I I just think it's absolutely makes such a big difference now to give someone some concrete numbers what I've seen is that for and this is a different metric right but you burn about 10 calories per kilo um sorry you you burn about 10 calories uh per kilometer per kilo so let's say you're walking 10 km about 6 miles and you weigh 176 pounds so 80 kilos you burn 800 calories um that's walking about uh 6 mil 10 km and that
might be more like 12,000 steps or so that's 800 calories it takes about an hour and a half or so maybe two 90 90 minute but again you know what like if if if you're already doing some day-to-day walking and then you add an extra walk in it might just be like 60 to 90 minutes of of a brisk walk embedded into your day because you're already getting a certain amount of steps every day just by walking in and out so um but so you burn you can burn a real amount and uh you can
really either induce a greater calorie deficit or you can give yourself much more wiggle room to be able to you know cuz the last thing you want to do is have to keep your C is very low to get lean you want to be able to get enough nutrition in while getting lean and so the walking can help create more of that buffer it's low uh low oxidative stress too right like you think of like so 800 calories but that 800 calories is burned almost entirely from fat because it's a low intensity beta oxidation movement
so it's like that is a no-brainer like would you rather burn 800 calories from fat or you know 400 calories from fat and 400 calories from from carbohydrates or glycogen I mean they all have their benefits calories at the end of the day it's going to come down to calories in calories out but if you're able to preserve some muscle and burn more of that from fat that just makes a ton of sense you know 100% yeah 100% now that's a that's a very very good point um so yeah I just freaking I just tested
it all I've I've I've done more cardio workouts to get lean I've done walking and I was like it's easier for me to just walk hit the steps hit my key keep my nutrition on point and I'll get lean and I I find that to be for me more effective than trying to use like yes I think you're absolutely correct like if you want to improve V2 Max conditioning aerobic endurance and stuff like that then running and more of conventional cardio workouts have its place but if the goal is simply I want to get lean
and healthy you can just simply do a lot of steps and that will do it let's let's wrap up with ways that people can get more steps in Without Really realizing it um you know like one of the quick easy ones Park further away from the entrance of a store right like people don't realize how much that adds up real quick like if you're Park going to Target and you're parking at the edge of the parking lot compared to trying to find the closest spot that you literally might have just gotten yourself a thousand steps
round trip that's a very that's a very very good one I haven't done this but I know a lot of my uh clients and stuff they'll buy a walking desk and they'll have the walking desk I haven't done it but like they'll Crush steps super easily um the one thing I recommend doing is write down pen to paper or you could write it down on your phone when you're going to get in that walk every day um because a lot of times people don't find the time and they make excuses so if you actually like
I write I schedule my workouts when I'm going to train but I also schedule my walks okay you know what 2:00 I'm going to go for a walk maybe you have a lunch break and uh you can you know every opportunity you have go outside get a walk so if you're in an office and you got a lunch break or a little break go for a 15-minute walk um um before after dinner you know go for a little walk call maybe you're maybe it's 8:00 and you're calling your friend instead of sitting down walk in
a circle just you know walk in your backyard or if it's snowing out just walk in a circle um I actually I travel and I fly a lot so sometimes I'm I'm in an airport I'm checked in I'm at my gate we're not we're not boarding for 45 minutes and I'll I'll just walk the airport people sit down everyone's sitting down I'm just walking just I'm getting my steps in uh and it's really you know sometimes you know you have a flight delay I think I've had this where you know your flights delayed hours and
I'm like okay you know we're getting a we're getting 15,000 steps in today so you know so it's there's so many opportunities to uh to get in a lot of steps and you it doesn't need to feel like a chore it doesn't feel like you know you don't want to you don't want your walk to feel like you're looking at the time am I at 10,000 steps yet you want it to go by gracefully so you either call a friend or you put on an audiobook you listen to this video um you know I I
like to listen to Power of Now by eart toally and a new Earth and I'll throw that on and I'll go for an amazing walk and the time flies by and it's cool because test this do a 30 minute run or do an hour walk you're going to burn s a similar amounts of calories to cover similar distance and see how is your appetite and dietary adherence from the run or the walk and I find that your appetite is lower on the walk but test it for yourself yeah you know no that just it does
have to do with like the fat oxidation being somewhat appetite blunting to begin with right another thing that I would recommend people do is when you mention your schedule think about like if you've got a call that's coming up first of all I've tested this time and time again granted like as a business owner I can be a little bit more like flexible with this but like people schedule a zoom call you don't need to see my face you know what like I know it's a zoom and I know everyone wants to see everybody but
we don't need to do that so video is off you're on my phone and you're in my pocket and I'm talking to you and we're doing the zoom call while I'm walking and that way try it out you've got Zoom calls scheduled all right or if you have the ability to schedule your own Zoom calls schedule them at a time when it's convenient for you to go for a walk so I try to schedule calls now it's one of these things where I do call blocks right so if I'm doing calls I have them Consolidated
a specific time when I know it's going to be a convenient time for me to just go out for like a 2hour walk and just hammer out these calls and it's funny because now it's made it more fun I used to dread having to have calls I'm just like I don't want to do this and now I'm like oh I look forward to this it's my time to go out in the sunshine and go for a walk right and the time just flies by yeah that's very very smart I I try and do the same
thing Zoom calls I'll just throw on the throw on the earphones and go for a nice walk and it just you hit two birds one stone so that's kind of the main thing with walking you want to hit two birds one stone either you do a work call you have a you socialize with a friend you learn um and if you do you know any of those three then you're hitting two birds one stone and if you have kids or if you don't have kids you can be a weirdo just go by yourself the uh
I have found I was never a theme park person and I'm still not particularly like don't really care about the theme park itself but since having kids going to Disneyland or Disney World I will knock out sometimes 30,000 St Jesus you know and it's like I think my record my record is like 29,000 steps at Disney World one day and it was like that's so now my wife and I kind of joke it's like hey you know kids want to go to Disneyland all right we'll go to Disneyland because we're live in LA so it's
close you know it's like shoot all right well at least we're going to get our like 20,000 like we end up coming like most people go to like Disneyland and they might just eat funnel cakes and eat all this junk we come back leaner literally because been walking all yeah and it's very hard if you're getting 30,000 steps in it's very hard to eat especially if doing a short fast and eating like filling Foods it's very hard to like to even get to maint you're burning so much you're going to kind of create a very
big deficit yeah no so I stand behind it man I say like time and time again I say this statement like walking is the king of cardio like if it's just for life it's the way it is and you know what someone that it's very powerful let's say someone's got 50 pounds to lose I know at one point you probably had close to 100 lb or something to lose if you're 50 lb overweight you do not need to run and that's also a lot of stress on the knees um it's going to be too stressful
but if you're over weight the amount of calories you are going to burn walking is going to be a very high amount um because the heavier you are the more you're moving the more calories you're burning so so you know if I if I'm 180 175 180 if I was 250 and I did 10,000 steps I'd be burning way more so as a as a bigger person with weight to lose you can get lean so easily with walking you don't need to put the the vest on I mean but that's something cool that I might
try is throw on how much weight do you usually do on a that's that's the trick is don't try to go crazy heavy with it because then you're changing your gate so like we can get into like the uh the details here but like basically if you start putting on so much weight that you're changing your gate pattern then it's then it can actually be counterproductive because then it's like your your full on like rucking is great but if you're throwing 40 pounds on like because you're like I want to add more weight your whole
gate pattern changes your actually risk of injury goes up I'm a huge fan of just going light like we're talking 10 to 20 yep so 10 to 20 20 on the heavy side I mean I will do heavier rucks if I'm doing that Del but if it's I want to maintain like a simple gate pattern where it's just like oh my caloric burned because as you mentioned that that that amount per kilo if I can just add that small amount of weight where my gate pattern stays the same and it serves as just an additional
calorie demand that's really not changing things much very cool 10 to 20 pounds I'll have to give that a a go there's lots of awesome walking uh to do in Cali heck yeah man yeah well where where can everyone find you man yeah so I'm active every day on Instagram at grego Gallagher as well my website with where I have all my programs supplements is kinobody.com KOB body.com right on my man well thanks right everyone's going be walking right now exctly hope they're walking while they're watching this
