MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY: The BIGGEST Mistake You are Making in LIFE! (I Wish I Knew THIS Sooner!)

When you think about your life right now, you do so much. You were just talking about all the projects and travel and everything. If you ever get a day that has no plan, no schedule, no timeline, no phone, >> no commitments. What does that look like for you? >> Oh, I don't get many of those. And I need to my hunch is I need to learn to get more of those. And when I get them, I can be better at them because I have a love of accomplishment to even feel a significance for the day.

M you know I sleep better um when I have a purpose and I went after something even if it's just building something and um I I'm still learning. I'm got to remind myself now. I used to be better at it actually to I just go daydream mosy. Let's take a mo everything's swing by today. That's one thing I've I quit calling appointments Appointments and call them swingbys >> and all of a sudden I find I get just as much done but but I'm just it's just in my dance of the day. Yeah, >> but if

I have one full day off, um I will get my 9 and 1 half hours sleep, which is preferred, which means maybe I sleep till 9:30. I'll get up, um take my time, mosey down. If Camila was up, my wife was up before me, she'll have left me a a matcha tea. If uh if she wasn't or had to rush out the door, I'll go Make that tea. While the water's boiling, I'll I'll go probably uh do eight pieces of a puzzle. which is a a wonderful way. I love starting my day on that slow

simple ah eight little connections. Ah, you made you rhymed eight different things and very simple. Now I'll usually head out to the maybe the front porch, >> have that first tea, catch hopefully catch 15 minutes of some morning sun face. >> Um then I'll uh um catch up on the on the the the the world's news, what's happening. And uh maybe I'll do my word or a couple little simple little things. I'm going to try and play tennis somewhere in the day. >> I'm going to try and break a sweat somewhere during the day. Um

I'll take some project or something that I'm working on or writing with me maybe to my gym and have one of those lazy little two and a half hour workouts where you Kind of stop and write some things and then you kind of get hop back into it. And then uh I'm probably going to cook dinner that night when I don't have anything going on. >> Mhm. So, either I'm going to get the ribe eyes and and and rub them down in my rub and have everything and and and or I'm going to do tuna

melts for the family that night. Um and then uh kids never want to come home. We'll usually hang. I'm picking I'm saying this day That I have off as a school day. >> Yeah. >> And uh we'll hang catch up on days after that. Maybe the family will all go catch something. One of our favorite shows we'll go watch an hour. And if we start early enough, maybe we get two episodes, kids will go down, then uh Camil and I get to hang and uh for the last couple hours of the evening. That'd be that'd

be a mosy through my day day. >> Nice. I love that. >> Yeah. >> How how obviously the mindset of achievement and purpose and growth has served you so well, but there's a part of you that sounds like I would like more days like this. Where does that come from? >> I love to be on task. I love to have something that I'm building and reaching to finish and and do. I love the building of that. I've started a lot of the campfires in my life that I'm still Building. Um and I have plenty to

fill my 24-hour days. At the same time, I want to keep learning and and be inspired by something new, you know, pick up something that I didn't like. I just picked up tennis four years ago. I didn't have I noticed I said you hadn't had a hobby for 25 years m you found your first hobby. I thought writing was a hobby and I was like no no that's actually not a hobby you know but to find to be open to finding a new hobby a New to go somewhere not I don't know where we going

we're going for a walk >> to no destination in particular >> you know to to lose track of time >> with success and with a busy life and I got a full life and I got a family and I got a career I my hunch is that while that can fill my days completely for my own evolution in art just to make sure I can still have that beginner's mind where I can go go daydream >> for nothing in particular. Go go go go Go where your nose takes you. >> You know what I mean?

Or go where your ears take you. Follow that to give my to make sure I'm giving myself time >> to let that happen. I think is a good pro I think is a good it it always seems to pay off. Yes. >> And it never is looked at as like time not well spent. >> You know what I mean? But in the time I can get a little bit anxious and be like, "Let's do let's get ahead on that Thing, you know? Let's let's bring that thing that you were supposed to have done next Friday.

What if we got that done now?" >> Yeah. Yeah. I can relate to that. I can I can relate to that. And >> I can see it too in in how easy it is as someone who loves what they do and loves creating and building and I fully get it. >> That's I mean, there's the upside and I'm I'm not over here bitching about That. I'm happy to have things in my life that I love to build and do. >> My wife knows it. She I'm I'm probably most happy. It's probably obvious >> when I'm

when I'm working, when I have a when I have a schedule, when I have a day that is this many hours or 12 hours or I just got through shooting something for two months and then boom, hopped off next day went into shooting something for three days. I I love that. I sleep well. The food tastes a little better to Me that night. that cocktail, that panel on ice tastes better that night. I'm actually, I think, have more time and I'm a better father to my kids, the conversations, and I'm more present when I have

that uh sense of accomplishment through the day. >> Yeah. What's uh you've written so many chapters, you've lived so many chapters. What would this chapter of your life be called? Who >> That's a great question. Um, So I'm just turned 56 and 40s were my favorite decade. I think I really customized. And I found that to be true for a lot of people, especially a lot of the men I talked to, they go, "Man, 40s, you get rid of all that stuff where you're wasting your time and you're honing in on the stuff that turns

you on." Um, look, 50s, I'm still in a the early the first first few years of 50s were a little wobbly for me. So you go, "Oh, is this that midlife crisis?" And I go, "What is that?" I don't like the word crisis on that. Sounds like a midlife, for lack of a better word, opportunity that you just, it's a time where for whatever reason, man looks back and goes, "What have I done? And now where am I going?" And I think my hunch is that most people go through what they call a midlife crisis.

And if it's hard for them or not healthy for Them, it's because maybe they're not giving enough credit to what they actually have done to get there. >> You know, it's like, oh no, I did that. >> Yeah. >> Done. Next. >> You know, like we're talking about with me need more accomplishment. Well, wait a minute. Sometimes it's all right to go what what did you do back there that actually you're still building? What if we take that to another level? Uh put Another log on that fire. My goal when I hit the 50s, my

my goal did it came to me was like, hey, you're an actor, you you you you play a character in someone else's script that someone else wrote, directed by someone else, lensed in a camera from someone else and edited by someone else before your performance is shared. And I love acting, but I go, there's four filters of my raw expression before it's getting to you. We were talking about this Before we got on camera today. You go. You go on stage. Boom. It's direct. This is pretty direct, but there's still a filter here. >> Mhm.

>> You know what I mean? Writing, there's still one filter. That's But that's when I headed into writing is I wanted to get rid of three of the filters. And that's when said, "Oh, what if I write the word? Can I pull off and give someone translate the human experience where They people can see themselves through words? >> Can I paint a picture of my own experiences which someone else can go, "Oh, I've been there. I know what you're talking about. But that's still a filter. So the challenge I've been that that keeps just gnawing

at me since I've turned 50 is like what's your documentary? What what are you doing? Are you a character in life in the big show? The One there or action was called the day you were born and cut will be called the day you die. What what what are you doing live? Is that worth the show? >> Is it entertaining? Is it educational? Is it inspiring? Is it does it turn you on? Could it turn other people put people on? What's happen? That's that's now we're talking no filters. And so I've started to question myself,

what what's your let's let's think about do you is there other Avenues for you to live instead of doing someone else's script? What's your script? Now, that's led me to think about different ways of leadership. It's led me to to write more. It's also led me to go on the hard days to give myself a little amnesty and go, "Dude, take a little wisdom from Bob Dylan." You're all you are what you create yourself to be. >> Every maybe if you feel more alive Acting in a show through a character, well, bravo. That's still you.

Don't act like that's not you. You and get to your real self. Abby, you are to be the creation. And it's okay if I'm going to go play a part. >> We're all playing a part. >> Are we playing? If we can get to a part that is essentially close to essentially who we are, bravo for us. If we can't, we're having trouble doing that. And if we can play a part that we're good at And shows a piece and translates to show a piece of humanity, turns other people and and us on even though

it may not be corly who we are, well, bravo for getting away with that one, too, >> you know. But play one at a time is another is another little tip I have to remind myself cuz the great performers, whether I think in life or in acting, you know, they they they can play any part. They can be any creation, but they're always one at a time. >> And that's where some patience has to come in. That's where a bit of that, hey, don't rush to accomplish. Just play one part at a time. >> But

as life gets big and you've got a career and you got a family, there's many parts to play, >> you know, father, husband, performer, you know, or writer, whatever those are. But as you know with practice those all that instead of feeling like five different hats you got to wear one day You go oh that's all part of the same story that's all part of the same man I am. >> Mhm. So the chapter would be called one one at a time. >> The chapter would be called ah I wish it was called sometimes I

think it should be called one at a time. The long my long answer to what would the chapter be would be uh I loved your answer. We've got a um I opened up eight lanes to about 12 Lanes. >> When you open up to more lanes and you've been comfortable on these eight and you know them well, well, there's a little growing pains with getting comfortable in those other new lanes. Um without disregarding my eight that I've built that I've built that I'm comfortable in, >> you know. So I would say >> four more lanes.

Let's call that chap. It's called Four More Lanes. >> Four More Lanes. Yeah. >> It's interesting listening to you because I think you've highlighted a really interesting human trait that we all possess where when we achieve something and it's no longer useful, we start to denigrate it. So, for example, if I think a certain mindset is going to help me at this point in my life, I'll use it. It will get me to where I want to get to. And then when I get there, I'll go, I didn't Like that mindset. I wish I was

this way. And we kind of do that time and time again. And I assume decade by decade >> where we reject the thing that got us here. >> Yeah. >> And don't value it because now it isn't what the new >> world looks like. It's like, and making it very basic, a crude example is, oh, I used I thought that was cool to wear and Now 10 years later, I look back and I think, why was I wearing that? Like I'm crazy. And but think about that on an internal soul level of the mindsets we

wear and the behaviors we wear and >> like taking a moment as you said to give yourself that amnesty to say >> well yeah and to and to make sense of humor the default emotion when you look back and you're embarrassed of something you did that actually got you what you wanted >> to go you know >> to go instead of judging it at least start off giggling at it helps with the amnesty it also helps change gear and go oh the realization oh I wouldn't have I wouldn't have learned that lesson if I wouldn't

have been such an egotistical prick at the time because I wouldn't had the confidence to put myself in the situation to get humbled. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? You can look at All the piles of we step in >> and they lead to, you know, the clean the clean water we get to drink from the from the well down the line or the truth we figure out. I mean, it's it's it's you say that uh it's a mystery going forward. It's science looking back. M >> you know >> cuz we can all

connect the dots to exactly where we are right now >> and there's a science to it >> even and and that science has to do with when we face planted and tripped ourselves and messed up or went about it the wrong way but maybe got the outcome we wanted or went about it the wrong way and didn't get the outcome we wanted. I think that has a lot to do with our and I don't know do you think this is a western thing our relationship with failure we're embar we in some ways I wish we

were more embarrassed all right But in other ways I'm like we have to get a with children you know it's like they're afraid to fail and it's like >> no no no if anything if I look back I always answer the question what would you do different I wish I wish I would have taken more risk and failed more >> and I'm still trying to challenge myself to that >> today but we have this relationship with failure is like an embarrassing thing to do instead of shaking hands go no Failure will happen and if it

doesn't happen you're probably not taking enough risks or you're not getting out of your comfort zone. So no failure is part of the successful path. It's necessary and we don't have a good relationship >> with it. Do you is that a western thinking? >> I think it comes from the western versus eastern ideology of time. So in eastern traditions time is cyclical and in western traditions time is linear. >> Yeah. >> And as soon as you make time linear failure means a step behind >> but as soon as time is cyclical well then it's just

repeating itself. >> So that concept >> transforms how you view failure because failure then becomes a part of a cycle. >> Yeah. >> Whereas failure in a linear journey is bad >> because it means I'm going backwards and Someone else is doing >> success in the same way in the western world. Western world vertical as in oh two steps up the ladder failure oh you step back down the ring whereas in the eastern philosophy it's not necessarily so vertical quantity >> yeah I would say it's I would say if the western is outwards and upwards

then the eastern is inwards >> okay >> and so the inner journey for example the Quest to understand outer space would not be as interesting as the inner sky >> the inner sky would be more of a magnetic pull to understand >> heard >> if that helps makes. Yes, it does. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And so these little mindsets I feel it's it's what you said earlier. You change your language about midlife crisis to midlife life opportunity. >> That language shift Is revolutionary for the mind. >> It's wild, isn't it? The vernacular, the prescriptionist

definition or just a word. I had the word I had I've had the hardest time for 40 years dealing with the word humility. Come on. Got to be humble, Matthew. You got to be humble. We got to be more humble. My shoulders would start to cave. >> My head would start to go down. I was Pass I became passive or lose. I had the moment where it was my turn and I I didn't take the opportunity. I had a false sense of modesty. No, no, no. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you go. Or that that person that's that that that's at the um in front of you at the stop sign that says, "No, you can go and Now it's your turn." They go, "No, you can go." It's like, "No, it's your turn to go." It's like, don't sit there and keep telling every sing That's a false modesty. It's like there's they went, now you can go. Don't

let them all go through or I'm going start honking the horn. You know what I mean? until I heard um a definition that was humility is admitting you have more to learn. And soon as I heard that, I went, "Oh, oh, I'm in. I purchase. I my now my my chin's up, my heart's high, my shoulders are back, and I admit I've got a lot more to learn, but now I've got the confidence to move forward." And I didn't get that click. It was just a definition. Vulnerability is another word that kind of has a

mingling definition that some people are hard to take at a or you know sentimentality. >> It's different between sentiment and Sentimentality. >> And we all want to be humble but nobody wants to be humiliated. Well, aren't they of the same word? >> You know, I mean, yeah, one little flick of a definition. We found, you know what, Camil and I, when we went to DC with the gun control after the shooting, we said instead of calling it gun control and we're talking to especially some people on the far right, the word they love, which is

true, not control. Nobody wants mandate, but we call it gun responsibility. >> Oh. Oh, they're raising their hand go, I'm all for responsibility. What do you mean? >> Mhm. But the word control, they're uh I'm not even I'm not listening to another another word. Control is what I don't want. >> Yeah. >> But you say call it responsibility. Oh, now I'll talk to you. >> It's amazing how a word sometimes and you don't know what someone else's definition is. They may have a completely different definition of that by how they grew up, what they experienced,

what their parents taught them, what school, how how that word, what that gave them in their life when they thought they were acting that way >> or living that way. It's so true. It's so true. And that's such a great example with humility. I My favorite definition That I learned about humility was >> always being honest with yourself. >> And so it's like humility is being honest with yourself. So I'm good at this and I'm not so good at this. I'm I'm great at this and I can be confident about it and this needs a

bit of work, you know. And so if I can be honest with myself and that's humility because I'm accepting that there's >> more I need to learn, but there is something that I have to offer. And >> it's I I love the word, you know, I love to be certain. >> Yes. >> Sometimes I mistake my I love to be I'm a big fan of the word selfish. And I'm still into redefining this. And my pastor told me, God, hey, you're pushing a large square rock up a very steep hill. But you know, even biblically

speaking, do unto others as you would have them do unto >> Yeah. >> you. >> Love your neighbor as you love yourself. That's the self. That seems to me purely selfish. I believe seems to me that real religion is extremely selfish. Living a way now if we believe that you will whether it's karma wise in life or whether it's life after this life that you will be rewarded later. That projection that delayed gratification sacrifices and consequences we make. Maybe it's one we make now to give our children a better life >> two decades from now.

Isn't that the most self? Isn't that more selfish than doing only for I at the sake of my neighbor or my loved ones future? Seems to me that's maybe I'm using the wrong maybe I'm using the wrong word I'm told sometimes, but I'm sticking with it. Um >> yeah, but you know the the the certainty I like to know. I want to be in the know. I also want to damn well be in the Know about what I don't know. >> Yeah. >> And that's part of that humility. You what I mean? Like I I

I mean, you know, they say don't take yourself serious. No, take yourself real seriously. >> Yeah. >> And also take sense of humor seriously and also take comedy very seriously. >> Yeah. >> Take gals very seriously. They happen. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. I loved your you just referenced it. You were talking about karma. I loved your redefinition of how karma works. So in the book you write >> when you don't do good to others it's guaranteed basically that they won't do good to you but if you do good to others >> it's

not a guarantee that they'll do good to you but >> the universe will respond. Yeah, >> along those lines. And I'm doing it from memory. That's right. But talking about redefinition, it stayed with me >> because I thought you've just >> pierced the veil of our false understanding with karma, which is if I do good to people, they do good to me. And if I do bad to people, they do bad to me. So, I'm expecting that when I do good to you, >> you'll do good to me. And we all know That doesn't work

like that. And I thought, wow, this really pierces the choose to be good to others knowing that good comes to me in other ways, >> right? >> But I don't have to find it through that person. >> Can you can you can we trust that? >> Can we trust that unconditionally for ourselves? >> Mhm. >> Again, that goes back to selfish for me. For ourselves, again, the projection, it seems like delayed gratification. And the thing that we really try to teach our children is what we still have the most to learn about as adults. What

are the consequences? Can we believe more in the consequences of our choices today? Can we have more trust and belief in you know that what I the choice I make today if I make the better choice it's going to reap rewards on others Including myself down the line >> but we don't like to think past now if you're successful and you're fluent in life you have the the the luxury of thinking of of long-term thinking. >> Yes. >> Some people in misery, which this would be fun to talk about. Someone in misery, they're in delayed

gratification. My ass. What you talking about? I'm trying to I'm hoping I'm trying to get Something tonight. I we can wake up tomorrow and put some food on the table. >> Yeah. >> Is it a luxurious thing to talk about delayed gratification? Is it a luxurious thing to talk about making sacrifices >> and doing what's well for yourself, but also well for the most amount of others? Is that a luxury? to someone in misery because they sure as hell have a hard time understanding and I'm with you going I understand You want me to talk

about it what we can do peace in the world and you're trying to pay your rent you going I don't want to hear about that >> I'm I've got a household here I got two bedrooms I got five kids I just got fired and you want to talk to me about what the best idea would be for the most amount of people >> right here >> uh you know what I mean I understand that >> yes absolutely I fully agree. >> And then what do you do about that then? So you understand it >> but

>> well I I try to be humble >> with it and go you can't just you know speak trying come across as speaking from on high. M >> I think you know you talk about someone in in a position who's lost or In pain again you talk to them about projection and projecting further in life they're like what are you talking about but >> to those people and when I myself have been there and trying to and confused and frustrated and don't have the luxury or the bandwidth to think that far ahead >> and try

to go what All right so What's the next best right decision? What's And you Don't know what that is. >> Yeah. >> Well, I don't know. That's the one of the problems. All right. What do you >> What are you most faithful to? >> Do that one. >> Just one. Let's just go one in a row. We ain't thinking about And if then No, just just do one in a row. >> You know what I mean? And just start with one and and and just >> stop there. I remember being down in uh After Katrina.

Um we were in Gulf and Mississippi and um we were on these property where all these houses were wiped out and we were on this one place and there was this lady's house was just a slate of cement with some rubbage and stuff. It had been completely knocked down. And she came back and she was about 80 years old and she was still in a night gown and she sees it saw it for the first time and she was just like And we asked her, "What are you looking for?" She goes, "Well, I I just

want to hope find a picture maybe in a scrapbook so my grandchildren say I don't live, but that's that will that will help me." And and then I was sitting there talking to her and I was like, "What are you feeling right now?" She goes, "I just I just can you tell me where to put my right foot if I take a step?" >> Yeah. >> I just need >> Yeah. >> Is it solid? Is it going to cave? Am I going to trip? Can you just tell me? I don't even want to look right

now. We can I trust you to tell me that this if I step this way, one step, my foot will be solid and flat and I won't slip and it won't be danger. I won't step on a piece of glass. I'm not it's not going to and that's just wanted one step. That's a person in misery going >> just show me one solid step. I don't want to know what's going on. No, I don't not not what's happening in an hour. Not what's happening in 30 minutes. Just give me one solid step. Yeah, >> that

seems to be a a place to start for someone in misery. >> Yeah, >> that's doesn't have the ability to project or so confused and you feel it's got too much coming down on you, too Much pain to think down the down the line. And then if you do that once, then you reset and you bring up the same question. All right, what's the next one step? Mhm. >> If one in a row over and over. >> Mhm. >> Instead of, "Oh, I'm going to put a string together." No. Do one in a row over

and over and look up and maybe go, "Look at that." >> Yeah. >> 10 in a row. >> We got somewhere. But that's easier said than done, you know. >> No, I What do you think? >> I No, I I love that. I I think you hit the nail on the head. It's It's how we teach children >> to take one step at a time. It's how we build new habits as people. We do one day at a time. Mhm. >> I think as soon as we start thinking it's why New Year's resolutions fail, It's

why these big claims of I'm going to do this for the rest of my life or I'm going to do this for the rest of the year. Why people struggle with vows and commitments or whatever it may be. It's because you're making this long-term decision based on small amounts of information. And you're spot on that I think it's not compassionate to challenge someone beyond that one step, that footing that that they're just I I love that answer. I think it's I think It's I think it's the most empathetic, compassionate and loving thing you can do

is to teach someone how to take the next step without any pressure to climb the whole mountain. So what then would you say is the balance between keeping the big picture in mind but taking one step at a time >> the urge the will the incentive the the the being to go no I'm chasing my transcendent self I'm trying to be more Godlike whatever that is >> which is a big big picture >> I'm dying living as if I want to get to heaven or whatever. I want to act in a way that I have

good karma. Those are big ideas. >> So, how do you what's the what's in your mind? What's the dance between that and yes, but put your head down one step at a time. >> As you're saying that, I'm reminded of a beautiful line in scripture. This comes From the Bhagat Gita, the Eastern text. And the text is not a rule book or a principle book. It's based on a battlefield and the character is the greatest archer of his time and he's having a crisis of faith and the bow slipping from his hands. He's going to

have to fight his family who are the bad side and he's the good side and he doesn't feel capable of taking the lives of people that he grew up with and That's that's the scene and he's talking to God who happens to be his charioteer. So God's actually riding his chariot and he pauses in between the two armies and they have this dialogue which is 700 verses 45 minutes long in time >> and God's number one instruction is think of me and fight. >> Yeah. It's like think of me and fight. So it's like it's

like I want you to think of me >> and then do your duty >> and take that step. And so, you know, talking about what you're saying, it's like this paradox where we think we have to choose, but actually the instruction in and of itself, >> he repeats that twice. God repeats that twice in the text. It's like, think of me and fight. So, think of me and do you, think of me and take the step- because if you think of me and take the step, >> you'll have faith and trust, but you'll Also feel

your action and the confidence. But if you only think of me >> and you just sit there, that's not going to work. >> Yeah. Let like like let's let's explore those two extremes that where we where we don't get it. >> Yeah. >> One are the fatalist. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I don't know. Inshalah. >> Yeah. >> Wait a minute. >> We got to have our hands on the wheel. Yes. You know what I mean? You know we it is we have our freedom of choice and you know. So where is it that we go

rely on faith too much? >> Yes. And where is it? We're like, "No, I am fully responsible for everything. The next step is all that matters." Head down. You don't see any horizon. Exactly. You don't see any You're not pursuing anything. You're just you're, You know, >> not Air Force, >> Navy, Marines. You're army. You're dealing with the ground only. You know what I mean? >> Talk about SP, you know what I mean? That that's the two extremes when it feels like they can be out of balance. that that paradox in the middle is what

so many of us are seeking and pursue and try to live at. But >> what are practical ways to to to to keep That in the in in the middle where we're feeling both at the same time where we're thinking of God and and fighting. Yeah. You know the old what's that old southern adage the old man and the boy walking here comes the tornado and the boy drops on his knees to pray and I said get your butt up boy scared prayer ain't worth the damn right now. We got to go get shelter. >>

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> You know, and then other times, and I've Had my nichi and agnostic years where I was like, it's all me. >> Yes. Yes. >> It is all about my hands on the damn wheel. >> Mhm. >> Now, I don't regret those. And as a believer, I don't I didn't feel >> spiritually. God was mad at me for that. >> I thought he had a rice smile on his face. He was like, "Way to get your hands on the wheel. I could use some more of that from some more of y'all.

But at the same time, >> you thought you had it. I thought it was all up to you. Huh. >> But I I appreciate the effort. >> Yeah. >> But it was it was it was I remember the feeling of appreciation and I needed it at the time because I was giving myself too much >> Yes. >> amnesty in places and I was getting my chassis was a little loose on the edges and I was like, "Well, you got to look in the mirror, MCA. Grab the damn wheel, man." And quit like just letting it

let it all slide on fate. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. It's I think there's a reason why so many spiritual and faith traditions you you went to church on Sunday or a temple or whatever. It's like that was the day Where you were fully dedicated in faith aligned in trust and then you went and worked six days and you carried that with you and you tried to practice it as a reminder but then you went back and then you got reminded and then you did six days of yourself

>> about Thursday evening. You were like I need Sunday to come. >> Yeah. Exactly. And I feel like that's where that that third space has been lost. It's like You know, 100 years ago, Third space theory, we had three spaces. We had church, work, and and home. And then fast forward as time went on, you had work and home. And then fast forward after the pandemic, and you just have home, >> right? >> And they all had a purpose. It was like church or temple or community or whatever it was. It was a place that

gave you the space to look back on your life and >> take a step back because at home you have to be dad or mom. >> It was a physical place. It was a physical place that gave you space >> to ask different questions because at work you're just asking how do I make more money and at home you're asking how do I be a better mom or dad >> but then what about how do I do all the other where's the space for that question? So In this age where most people less they're not

going to church less they're going to the temples less >> is it possible do you think or or how can we improve if you do think it's possible without the ritual of that third space because I understand the concept man when I'm when I feel most spiritually strong I'm pray all days of prayer >> yes yes for sure >> my every interaction Yes, >> is a give and take and a rhythm of oh, I didn't have to close my eyes now. But that Sunday ritual where I did need to get my heart above my head

in humility and bow in humility. Um, I saw I got objective. >> Mhm. >> And saw myself from an eye in the sky and was like, "Oh, are you doing you need do you not you're not quite doing or you could do this thing you think you're doing a little more truly." Mhm. >> You could have been more benevolent in that. Oh, that was But I I needed that. But but then a lot of times I mean without the ritual and so many people now go, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. >> Mhm. >> I'm not

religious. I'm spiritual. I think there's people that are a lot more religious than they think they are. >> Mhm. I think there a lot of that is that term that's coming from what mankind has Done with religion which in the Bible Jesus fought against. So I was like huh that's not what I'm talking about guys. This is not it's not it's not it's not religion isn't a capitalist thing. It's not a material. It's what we've done with it that I think a lot of people are fighting against religion >> in fairness. Yeah. The word means

from re leg means to bind together and re means Again. So a lot of people that I hear saying I'm spiritual and I'm for unity. I'm like going that's religion. >> Yeah. >> To bind together again. That's to unify. >> Yeah. But going back to our earlier thought, language is limiting. And once a word is scarred and wounded with battle wounds of the past, it becomes less >> prominent today. >> Yeah. See, I'm I'm a prescriptionist. I Keep going back like let's not >> I'm not ready to give up on original >> Yes. >> definitions

so quickly. >> Yes. >> And I can get sometimes I'm pushing that square rock up the hill. Other times they just go adapt. Don't don't want to be caught as a dinosaur. Right. So how do we again where do we hold on to time and tested truths >> spiritual ones in this sense and still Say no but let's adapt and evolve people move around in society differently now maybe we don't need the third space on a Sunday but we take the time every day to meditate to pray and church is where you are it's in

nature that's where I find my ch are those are you think these are good supplements or >> I want to know what you think >> I'd like to Hey, they are, but I'm not sure we're that evolved. I still think we need and want the responsibility, the hand, the hold, the oh, this is the day. This is the place. This is where I go. This is what we do. I try to short sheet that bet all the time myself, but I know better. And I've never followed through on go forward with the ritual go. I've

never followed through on it and come away going ah six or I'm always like yep yep you got to keep Doing that man and I'm got to trying to do that more as a father and you know head of the family and I'm not doing the best job of it. And I'm understand this thing but yeah it's where we are. It's how we think. It's how we're gracious. just how we're how we're thankful before meals we talk about our day or we talk about philosophy or stoicism and I'm like yeah these are some of the

same thing but are they I'm kind of making an excuse I think because philosophy is Different than religion although my favorite parts of what I've studied as religion is the stuff I can go oh I can take that into the week oh I can use that practically >> and I still have trouble with burning bushes and parted seeds and stuff like that but That's maybe a failure of my own true faith. That's that that seems to be maybe that's my own pride >> or my own pragmatism or my own belief in Philosophy and the way

we live life which I'm in eternally interested in. >> But I'm I don't believe I'm going far enough. >> Yeah. >> I think I'm shorting myself. I think there's a gap there. And I do I think God's going I appreciate you trying. You had you had too much pride. You're not going far enough yet. You haven't fully surrendered to the faith. >> Yeah. >> To belief in faith. That's my And I think you do need that. >> My my hunch is >> I don't care how tired you are Sunday morning. You that's that's where you

should and ought to and you know it. >> Yeah. >> Go for that reason. >> Mhm. >> So that's my hunch. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um >> we're we're aligned. Yeah, I I think that what we have available today are poor conduit greater depth that you get from the physical community. The connection, the communion of a direct message that feels really clear and is from source. Like there's a there's a power in that that I've personally experienced too and I've dabbled in both. By the way, I'm the same. I'm I'm the same as you. I

Live in a place where I don't have that community as I've had in other places that I've lived. I I constantly make excuses and find other ways to justify my my uh practice because I can't fully be at the depth that I'd like to be. And it's and so I'm doing it too to survive and to stay connected. >> But there's a difference between surviving and thriving. And I know that when I'm thriving in my practice and my faith, it's when I'm doing it the way it Was done. Now this doesn't going back and just

to add the caveat I think we all know it is that I'm not saying that the way it was done in all ways was done well. I'm saying that the form of connecting communion reflecting connection that >> you can't substitute that with anything else. But we're living in a world today where we need new tools and we need things that are more accessible and people need them and are available to Them and I see them as a beginning of the journey and a bridge not the destination. Okay. So I think if we're building a longer

bridge then that's healthy because if someone never starts the journey on the bridge will they ever make it to the place. >> What are we building the bridge with? So for example the brick and mort if if people are trying to do their daily meditation they're trying to maybe they're meditating through an app. Maybe They are uh trying to out with an online workout right like if they were in the gym at a class maybe that would be a more fun atmosphere for them right? Uh maybe people are reading a book about poems and prayers

inspired by but not directly from the source but that's their beginning bridge of their journey. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To that direction in their own pace at their own time whenever if and when they want to go. And I I feel like that's What >> what you do and what I try and do and what so many do is we're trying to build bridges hopefully that are not the home. I think the problem is when the bridge becomes the home. Amen. >> You don't want to live on the bridge. >> Yeah. >> Right. I can't

remember who said it. There's a famous quote that says um >> the world is like a bridge. >> Don't build your house on it. Cross over It. >> And that I don't know who said it, but it's that that idea of >> I think all of these platforms and apps and tools, they're all bridges. >> Yeah. >> But don't live there. >> Yeah. Don't live or don't feel that that's home. >> That's it. Yeah. I mean, >> let me ask you this, though, >> because like in the Bible, it talks About we're all you, we're

strangers here. We never we don't find a home here. In some version, and I may be uh u uh theologically messing this up, but what I get from it is, you know, but you try your pursuit to try and make heaven on earth, which you will not because you will never find it here till you get there. That's that's as good as you can do. But you will always be a stranger. You always be an immigrant. You will always be looking for a home here on Earth. >> Yes. >> Now, how does that necessarily mean

that that doesn't mean you we're living on a bridge? >> Yeah. >> Or does it? >> I believe so. I feel like the it's like an airport terminal. It just feels like home because we feel like it's a long time, but because it's not eternal, it can't possibly be the Destination, >> right? from a from a religious spiritual >> but you're trying to make home or the pursuit of home. >> Yeah. >> What you see home trying to trying to bring it here. >> Yes. >> Trying to emulate it as much as possible. Live in

the light of that. >> It's like I'm going to France next year So I'm going to practice French now. >> Right. >> Like that I think is the the big picture and the daily step at a time. It's like I'm trying to >> I'm trying to aspire to live. I'm I'm going to move country next year, >> but I'm going to practice the rules, the rituals, the the language of that country this year because then I'll be prepared. >> So So I don't not have a great life now. I'm not postponing joy. I'm not postponing

happiness or love. I'm practicing that culture that I believe is better for me. Yes. Now, if that makes any sense. >> Yes. Yes, it does. >> Yeah. What's what's been I feel like you're such a I feel like your mind is like you're constantly observing patterns and observing even like language as we've been talking. What's something that you've observed about Humans that fascinates you that surprises you maybe? Um, one, our ability to adapt when there's not another option. >> Wow, that's a good one. We're elastic, man. We are elastic. More elastic than I like to

practically think. But boy, when we're put to it, I'm amazed how quickly we can change, Adapt, evolve, come to understand the other side. When we're put to it, you give us the option, we we take the out, man, >> and we we we argue and re I'm not I ain't budging. >> Nuh-uh. You know what I mean? Um and then on the flip side of that somewhat is how we seem to find in this pursuit of the ideal. We seem to almost say well that is our home that is who we are and then go

okay so there and then we we our practice is not as evolved as we think it is but we keep saying and and and I love the we can get tap into the 11th% of our mind which we don't tap into we can be greater we can transcend but practically every day I think there's some great wisdom in going we're not as evolved as we think we are. Let's quit acting like we are. I love The pursuit. It's like rehabilitation and justice. I'm for rehabilitation, man. I'm I I mean I I love the New Testament.

You know what I mean? At the same time, we are repeat offending son of a guns over and over and over. And if I've done you wrong and you've allowed me to come to you and ask for forgiveness, the first order on the docket should be me. If you choose to forgive me, the first order on the docket should be me from now on doing Anything I can to not have to come apologize to you again. It's not just that you forgave and gave me the chance to be forgiven. I got some sweat equity on

my side to quit doing the actions that cause me to have you forgive me to have me apologize again. And we don't forget, we seem to not forget that side. I love Kumbaya. This is the ideal place we can go. But I feel like we relax and kind of almost take for granted thinking we're that Evolved. And no, we're not. That's the constant pursuit. We ain't there. So, let's deal with the hard math right here. And one thing we can depend on people being is people. Nothing we do is unbelievable. We do stupid all the

time. We break our own noses because we tripped ourselves running downhill. We steal. We're jealous. We covet. We talk blue and vote red. We talk New Testament and act old. We're entrenched in some ideas. Now, go back to that the first half of of what surprised me about people u when I was talking about the adapt the flexibility of adaptation. I remember I was it was probably 12 years ago. It was in Alabama. I was doing research for a film down there uh um Free State of Jones and in Mobile, Alabama on the docket that

night, the next morning the vote had gone through about whether Alabama was going to allow gay marriage And I'm sitting in Alabama and I was like I don't think this is going to pass. Deep South Alabama. I mean it sounds like that's a very progressive idea to them. Wasn't judging it. I'm just saying as an anthropologist and sociologist I'm like the next morning it passed 53% to 47%. I was like, "Wow." I talked to my friends, a lot of them on the left were abhorded. I can't believe that. Those bigots only 53. And I was

like, "Only 53? I thought It was going to be 8020 the other way. That was a massive amount." Me talking about meeting people where they are. >> It was a massive flexibility. That surprised me. And that was just 12 years ago. So, we have to understand where people have come from. I write about it in the book about I wish more crimes were from uh ignorance. >> And what I mean by that is if I know the right thing to do and I know the wrong thing to do and I still do the wrong Crime,

shame on me. I knew better. But there's certain crimes we commit daily that someone just goes, I I didn't know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, let's talk about some real rehab because you didn't make the wrong choice. You just didn't know. >> Yeah. >> Now talk about some amnesty. Yeah. I've got to meet you in a different place and we have to deal with solving the problem differently than I do with the guy that Knew better and did it anyway. >> Yeah. Do we expect too much from people? >> Practically speaking, yes. Yes. I mean

we underwhelm and underserve and undershow a lot but we all have different expectations of ourselves and and of others. I mean so again part of that hey just expect it that old expect the worst the best. I don't like that. I like actually expect The absolute best and when it comes in under that, you know, shoot for the A, make a C is better than shoot for C, make an F. When you how quickly when you dealt with reality and go, okay, well, that's a hell of a lot better outcome and I got more out

of you and you got more out of me than we would have if we'd had come in going like, let's just make a C. >> You know what I mean? We maybe, you know what I mean? We we went for the Perfection and we came in under it, but it was still pretty dog on good. Well done. That's where I'm I call it an overshow theory. >> How do you deal with when someone disappoints you based on your expectation? >> Um I'm quicker to say, "Yep, that was reality. That's what they're able to do." Whether

it's forgiveness or Amnesty or whatever you call with so with others than I am for myself. explain. >> I expect perfection from myself a lot and I don't reach it and I know I can or I believe I can. That's a better word. I believe I can. And I don't want to quit believing I can. That's sort of where I find myself in approaching life. Keep going for perfection. Keep finding that reality Comes in under that and you will have climbed more stairs if we're going to have a vertical by the end. You will have

had more quality. Your roots will have been deeper and wider inside and out vertically and to the south than if you didn't chase that perfection. The challenge for me is when reality comes in and it's served and the bell's rung and there's no more time to take the test. When you see that You didn't make a 100red and you made an 88, how quickly can you go instead of going, "Oh, dude," or how quickly can you go, "All right, 88, not bad." >> Yeah. So again that pursuit of an ideal >> plus the practical what's

the next >> step solid step >> and I I work to become uh I work to >> try and remain as much as I can >> to feel satisfaction in that reality. But that's the hard part is how quickly can you go from like I've never I say this all the time and I don't like it to be misconstrued. I've never made a film that lived up to my expectations. I've never given a performance that lived up to my expectations. I've done films that I think it's a lot better than I could have done. And

I'm not saying, "Oh, I should have direct." I'm saying, "That was a It's awesome. That's a really great piece of art." Not just transcendent. It didn't change the the world or tap into a piece of humanity that enlightened myself and everyone else on a unanimous level. >> That's what I'm going for. But I had never done it. So why and again I've worked and people have made films I think are are outstanding and better than they would have been if I would have been the Director for sure. But that's part of I think maybe why

when I do do good work or make good creations or good art. I think that was part of it that I was going for >> the infinite pure spot in space that was immaculate. >> Yeah. >> Believing I could achieve perfection but knowing I couldn't. >> But I still like to believe. >> I mean my my my favorite word in the World is unanimous. >> What? >> I mean unanimous. We don't have as many black and whites today, man. Maybe it's something unanimous that we can all agree on. Maybe it's a a value. Maybe it's

a it's it's a way of making a living. Maybe it's a piece of art. You just unanimously go, "No, that's just that's great. It's a one of one." >> But you seek unanimous Sammy Davis Jr. I don't know what success is. I know what failure is. That's trying to please everybody, you know? I mean, you seek, you ain't going to get it. >> There's no way. But >> you still believe it. >> Come on. to keep believing it. I don't know. I feel like it keeps me in the chase. Keeps me in the race. >>

Yeah. >> Keeps me going Almost. Okay. Okay. You know, yeah, I like that. >> You have to live like that. Like there there's a there's a joy to live like that. And and it's a joy again, you know, it's been the theme of our discussion today. It's almost like being able to accept both. Like you said, you believe you can knowing you won't, >> right? And it's that what makes it beautiful because if you only believe you can, then you'll be really Disappointed when it doesn't happen, >> right? >> And if you only know you'll

never get there, then well, you'll never do anything. >> So, so it goes back to that same Yeah, that same piece. So, so on your ranking score, where is Interstellar of your performance? Where do you go in Interstellar? Yeah. Where are you like your performance? Like that's not to us it's perfect. >> Uh >> to you it's not. So, what what is the >> No, no, I think it's I think it's very good and I and I think the movie is really good. I think I think the character is really good. I think my performance

is really good. >> Um I have appreciation for it and I know >> if I'm boing or if I'm birdie and I know when I'm like I've seen myself on screen you kind of bullshitting there kind of and then I've seen I'm like bam okay. >> Um so >> it's still 88 like you know yeah yeah. Well but I'm also as you know from the book I'm not into extra credit. I don't like 4.2 GPA. That tells me like what happened? Are we then we're not giving the right test? If four was the pinnacle, >>

you know, >> that means not many people should be getting it, >> if anybody. >> Yeah. So now we're getting four twos, four fours. That tells me we've overleveraged the original task >> or we've added amnesty or too many places to to not do the the have the real competence and merit at the task that you're supposed to get because especially I think in the west because we want everyone to feel really great participation trophies. 4.2 GPA. Well, I feel better. All right, got the 4.2 GPA start getting A 3.8. eight education the credit that

extra credit we give is sort of balanced with the debit of the actual what we learn from it sometimes if we give too much extra credit so >> what what validation do you pursue >> my wives my children um I have a counsel in the sky three people that are extremely important to me in my life my had Penny Allen and John Cheney and I see them, wink at them, talk with them, listen to them, seeing run ideas by them, run decisions by them, and then I look up and see what their reaction is and

and and and I it's been a very trusted council for me. Um, it's sort of my way to give people practical people, physical bodies and souls that are no longer with us here on earth physically to put them in a heaven sense and it's a connection. They're they're a conduit From God to me >> and I have no expectations of them. And sometimes when I'm so excited like isn't this great? I look up and they're not dancing. I'm like, why aren't you dancing? Got other times where two of them will be dancing and one of

them hidden and I have to go through oh why is that something they don't understand or are they the underdog and I need to be listening to them because that's why they're going You know better than that I I don't agree with that. Um, and then sometimes all three of them are, you know, my dad's got a, you know, dancing in his underwear with a Miller light and a piece of lemon mering pie, pennies up on a chair, screaming out loud and buddy John Cheney just leaning back and his old cotton yellow shorts as he

do with his shoulders back going, "There you go, b." Yeah. So I think their validation and that's a conduit to A practical conduit in my imagination because I don't have a picture in my mind of God. Um and I don't I I don't I don't think we can or should I think that minimalizes um you know we have pictures of of physical beings that have walked the earth that we can call prophets and stuff but of God I don't have a picture. I don't think it's a an its or anything like that. Um, so And

then I mean look, inherently that all brings me back to seeking my own >> Mhm. >> my own validation. Um, you know, I try to measure how I counsel and referee myself off of some of the people I just brought up to you. >> So, that's where I pretty well stick. That's where I prove it. I I don't I don't really look outside that that much Further outside my circumference >> just because >> I can't it's it's too fickle. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's too I can't really I don't have a trust. Again, that goes

that Sammy Davis Jr. You trying to look around and go, does everyone approve? >> Yeah. >> Uh it's going to be it's going to going to be lonely and hard and >> not necessarily the best for you. You Know what I mean? And I know I've pulled some things off my life where I, you know, people thought I changed and made it, wow, what a recreation. I'm like, I'm doing the same thing. You just put it in bold print now. I was doing the same thing 15 years ago. You know what I mean? Sometimes we

change by saying the same. And then other times, >> again, as we talked about in the beginning of the conversation, >> you give yourself time to daydream. You Pick out a new tact about how to maybe go about something, a new way of uncovering something, a new way of solving something, a new way of finding satisfaction in a situation, a new way of dealing with a crisis, a new way of u dealing with success. You know, looking at it from a different point of view, just to have another almost ammo arrow in the quiver and

how in this hunt is life. How does someone like you who built their career on control Grasp the concept of trust? I'm a trust first guy. I come here today whether we had never talked before. I have I have nothing in my head going into anyone's situation. Wonder if they're trying to get me. Oh, is he going to ask a tricky question? Oh, is he trying to play a guy? I don't Uh-uh. Because that'll hang me up. I won't be able to freely think and go. Now, at the same time, have I been doing this

long enough where before I'm about To say something or as I'm saying it, I can go, "Oh, if you don't finish this sentence right, that's going to be a headline in a rag bag or something." You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Oh, that's not going to be the headline you want. >> I'm conscious enough of that. But I'm a trust first guy and I've been and I've been burned and I'm like I'll I'll make that bet again because I know that I put that that if I put more Trust on Howdy,

it's going to do something to you where maybe you aren't the most trustworthy. I've seen people become more trustworthy. I've seen people give more because they go, "Oh, this guy's given me a massive amount of trust. He just empowered me, dude. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> he just gave me He saw a dignity in me that I didn't see. >> He's given me a license, a privilege, Some hoot ball to go, "Oh, okay." >> And I believe in that. And I I see that in people and it's a bit of that, you know, may what we

give from our soul get a like response from others. I believe in that reciprocity. I'm a trust first guy. I don't The residuals for going through life without trust. Oh that sucks. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, I also, you know, I trust myself more now than maybe I used to. And I think that's just come from Growth and evolution and and and you know, I used to always be a guy who and I'm still a guy who I don't like drawers. I like my stuff laid out. >> I want to see it cuz if it's

in the drawer, I'll forget I even needed it. I want to see it. I was always a guy who's like, if I'm going to come in this room, I'll make sure that my keys to the keys to my the door in the other room on the kitchen table, leave that door cracked. I'm have more confidence now to go, you Can shut the door. I know where I left the keys. I don't have to look over my shoulder again. >> I had this spiritually when I went into True Detective. I was in a really strong spiritual

place. And that character, my relationship with God at that time was really strong. that character went into some philosophical nihilism and things that are like away from faith. I was able to go I'm locking in and not Looking back for five months. >> Wow. >> And I don't need to look over my shoulder cuz I know when I come out of this, >> my relationship's good back there. I don't need to peek over my shoulder to make sure I don't have a I I had the trust earlier and many other times in my life I

wouldn't have had the trust to go that far cuz I'm like hang is this okay? >> Am I about to get struck by lightning Here? Is this blasphemous? You know what I mean? Are we good? >> You know, okay, I I'm just acting. >> You know what I mean? So I I had a great amount of trust. I'm strong spiritually then to go and when I feel stronger spiritually is that you know the foundation's stronger we can jump higher we can go further we can not look over our back as much and trust and you

know and we travel and trusting relationships and and away from the kids I'm away from The kids right now it's been a week okay but we check in yeah does facetime help with trust yeah because you get to more than just a phone call but the idea of the very simple natural ideas of going, "Hey, it's 10:00. I'm We're on the phone. I'm on one side of the world. You're on the other, but we're both under the same moon. We're both under the same sun. Son you're under right now just hasn't got to me yet.

But it'll be the same One. And the moon that I'm under right now just hadn't got to you, but it's it's coming." There's a >> again that time now we're getting into the cyclical time you're talking about and not the linear where we feel like, "Oh, I'm losing >> Yeah. a day. >> No, it's coming around. It's it's it's all balance. There's a trust I get from that. >> And then another trust I get is if I'm, you know, it's in between that it's it all it means everything means everything and nothing matters at all.

>> Yeah. >> In between there. >> Yeah. How do you Yeah. That like I love that there. So, how do we live like that? So again, trust if I'm going to go to the fatalist side of uh uh um what I do doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. I'm going to die, dude. What doesn't matter? I used to not have the trust to go, "Oh, but I'm going to still do every bit of the work to make sure." And that I'm put my hands on the wheel. >> Mhm. >> Right. So to go, "Oh, it doesn't matter."

It's what I'll tell myself if I'm nervous. I'm going to go give a speech or something. I'm prepared. I busted my tail and broke the sweat to get prepared. I'm full. Now, if I trust That and I know I did that. Now, I need to tell myself, dude, this doesn't matter. >> Yeah. >> You're gonna die. What does the hell does this matter? Cuz I know I'm not going to go be lazy and then prepared and f off. So, now that I trust that I will that I'm prepared and I take it very seriously, now

I come to the I like to end it with a well, no. >> Yeah. >> None of this matters. Yeah. Yeah. >> To relax. If I go, you know, too much the other side, I'm I'm I'm tight. I'm trying I'm trying too hard. I'm not I'm not giving myself the freedom to to listen and and and and riff and take somebody's answer and go with it. You know what I mean? So, >> that's that's how I try to balance the two, you know? >> But that took but I didn't 20 years ago if I'd have

said and with some of us in Life, if you tell them, dude, none of it matters. It's all fate. It's all going to happen in all happen. It's going to happen. People will just f off. >> Yeah. >> And go like, "Well, it doesn't matter how I treat you or treat me." And you're like, "No, it does." But can you trust that you're not going to be a tyrant when you let yourself off? >> Yes. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Well said. It's that that balancing act in everything we're

talking about. Everything. We just keep coming back to that like to be able to believe that what I'm about to do is important and then have the ability to embrace my own insignificance >> at the same time is is beautiful. Like >> there's a quote I always remember hearing as a kid is like you're just a you're you're you're this the smallest grain of sand in the palm of God. And For whatever reason, very early on in my childhood, when I heard that, that felt power from that. I didn't feel small. I felt like, wow,

how cool, how awesome. Yeah. And in that is the idea of like it all means something and none of it matters at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But it's very easy to look think of that that analogy and go, "Oh, well, so I don't matter." No. Oh, But can that grain of sand in the palm make you go, "Oh, no. I matter more than I thought." >> Yeah. And And it's both. >> Yeah. >> And it's both. And it's Yeah. I remember we were on a beach in South India. I was with my my

monk teacher and we were on a walk and it was a bunch of young monks with my teacher and it's a big fishing town. So, South India is very known for being a fishing community and there'd be Loads of fish nets with full of fishes and then there'd be the few that had fallen out on the on the beach as we were walking and whenever we'd walk past one my teacher would pick it up and put it back in the water. It was still, you know, uh tossing up and down on the on the beach

and we were just looking at the whole beach in front of us and there were like hundreds maybe, I don't know, maybe thousands of fish that had fallen out of the nets that won't go to be Cooked in a restaurant but won't make it back to the ocean. Yeah. >> And probably he was just every time we'd walk past he'd pick one and we'd be like we said to him like we're not going to be here all day and there's no chance we're going to get to all of these >> and and he was like

yeah but to that one fish that's their whole life >> like you know so to you it's like we're not going to get to 400 >> because you it's and so it's both. It's Like our our work is insignificant >> but it's significant >> and and then that goes back to that that that that we can get paralyzed you know the the think globally act locally is another term of you know I mean you get paralyzed think but I can't it's too much instrumental now I just do the do one in a row >> yeah

one at a time one step >> just one one at a time and you know the sun sets and you had to be home by dark And there's still some fish slipping well get on home and you didn't get them all but you got you were in the asset that sex. Sometimes that I think is is how I deal with maybe letting myself off trying to figure out a proper balance of forgiveness and saying, "No, the buck stops here." >> You know, some things I I'm like, man, I'm not I don't feel like I'm this

is magic or this is absolutely beautiful or this is absolutely true. I'll go okay, Not everything in life's going to be that, but are we in the asset section? >> Are we in the black, so to speak? Is is is the thing you're doing uh uh uh on on a proton, not not an electron. Is it? Yeah, it is. Does it not harm? You know, sometimes, you know, I mean, I do this in work. Some scenes are magic. They come to life. You just know. Some scenes you get in, you're like, dude, I'm just connecting

the dots. Let's just get out of here Without, you know, I don't have a great truth to tell. Let me just get out of here without telling a lie. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I have to let myself off and go not everything's going to be a wow magical truth. Sometimes it's just till the soil and don't tell the lie. Don't >> don't trip yourself. Don't hit the ball out of bounds. >> Yeah. >> Take one in. It's in the rough. Yeah. You didn't out of bounds. You're still you're still playing. Stay in the Just stay

in the game on the upside. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's just that I remember I had an acting teacher. I did a performance one time and I was real happy with it. and she came back. She was like, "Not bad, but every single scene it's like you're trying to hit a grand slam, Matthew. Sometimes you need a single. >> Sometimes you need to take a ball that Was not in the strike zone. Sometimes you need to lay down a bunt. Sometimes you need to." I was like, "Oh, that's right. Not everything's a grand

slam. It's not every single thing matters. If we think, you know, it's like if we think every single thing is significant and everything matters, we'll be Nothing will have significance. >> Yeah. >> We'll be paralyzed by minutia and details >> and stats >> that will there will be no baseline to any of it. There will be no song. It'll all be notes. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. The idea of significance evaporates if everything was significant. >> Yeah. >> There is no there there would be nothing that stands out or special. Yeah. It

just wouldn't it Wouldn't hold. The idea wouldn't hold anymore. >> Yeah. What's it the first when I asked you the question about validation, the first person that came to your um at least what you said out loud was your wife um who's here to and uh I was wondering what what do you feel is the biggest mistake we make about love? Biggest mistake we make about love. Groovy, groovy question. Thank you. And she's back there probably listening Right now going, I can't wait to hear this answer. I think one of the biggest mistakes that I

think I know I could make is taking it for granted. >> Again, it's on the same topic we've been on. You vow to love each other and say a marriage for instance, and it's through sickness and health until the death and I love you. My love's not in question. That doesn't mean it doesn't take maintenance To take it for granted that oh that's we're fine. I take it for granted. Oh, we got, you know, we got the kids, the family, it's all great to take that for granted sometimes and not do the maintenance, which shouldn't

feel like work, but is it's it's it's conscious. It's it's it can take work. It can be a thought and a choice you make to go that little thing. I'm making my tea. She's not up. I really want to get to that puzzle for those eight pieces. Want to make her one, put it in a yeti, and have it covered so when she gets up, it's ready. A little a little thoughtful. A little thoughtful thing like that. Was that work? No. Is that delay gratification for the relationship? Yes. You know, that's going to, you know,

that that that that'd be a nice thing to do for them. If I don't do it, it's not going to be missed. >> As a as a small example, >> I think another one with love, and you and I touched on it, I think before cameras were recording, is the idea that you find the one, and that's the one. And and and and wow, I make the male makes them Wonder Woman, and they think we're Superman. Oh Don't do that to me and don't let me do That to you. I can't live up to that.

>> You can't live up to that. Back to unanimous and seeking perfection. That's a tough nut to handle when you're like project that on someone that's unfair to project onto them and they project it on you and neither one of you can live up to it. It's the idea of the and I and and and and this is not a popular statement with my wife, but I think it's for me it's true and I hope maybe maybe I'm too practical about love. Maybe I'm not romantic enough about it, but I don't see how the honeymoon

period lasts forever. I just the honeymoon is all on the hope, the possible. We don't know each other as well as we're going to know each other. It's before we get married and we make the consecration and the covenant of marriage. And now we're getting into some real stuff and we got real pains and real pleasures and Real responsibilities and real fatigue and real winds together and we're building. We've expanded and got a family and oh man, we're bonfire. But that's harder and it's not honeymoon's only in the the the perfection stage. It's only in

the up in the air. Wow. The the the the youth of it, the beginning, the springtime, the fresh bud. And I love it. But it's if you try to hold on to that 100 watt bulb to be the light all The time, you're Wonder Woman. I'm Superman. It seems to me humanly impractical to live up to it and unfair to each other. >> There's a preacher down in San Diego, my buddy Mark Norby turned me on to. I'm forgetting his name, but he talks about No, no, no. Love's more like a It's a 30 W

bulb. Dim the light a little bit. It'll last longer. It'll illuminate longer. Not as bright, but it'll last longer. And it's more realistic for you And her. >> It's more human. And it's still lovely. has always stuck with me is a is a >> I've never heard that. Yeah, you know >> it is true whi which honeymoon period lasts as it is and things can go deeper and be more powerful and be more profound but not be the same and that >> if you just dated someone new for 3 to 6 months every year you'd

experience honeymoon period every year for the rest of your life Peter the honeymoon fresh It's transient it was all brand new but it didn't have all four seasons you didn't get into act two where the conflict comes where somebody's getting sick. >> Yeah. >> Where you didn't get to act three where you got to land the plane and figure it out and come down and be on your deathbed going, "Love you, too." >> Yeah. >> Hey, we did we did all right. You know what I mean? >> I always It's a I'd always in my

younger years like what what do you think? If there's a God and you see him, what do you what do you do he's going to say to you? I was always like, I think he's going to say thank you. And then this hit me 5 years ago. 5 years ago, I was like, no, that's a bit arrogant there, P. What he's probably Going to say mean he's going to say you're welcome >> in that is a a way I'm seeing life more >> now. and to some extent have before but in that isn't an inherent

sort of what are we doing you know is life long is it short is it hard is it easy I don't know it's hard some ways it's really long it's really short easy sometimes but Yeah you're welcome I can say thank Yeah, but I've got a Yeah, we've talked about I'm happy to I'm happy to and I'm not going to shy away from with still being sensitive to people musicians that are like easy for you to say MC. Hey, I saying you're welcome to me. You know what I mean? I'm not living a life of

I I I want to be open and understand that. At the same time, I'm very happy and Level eyed with with saying and believing that um and having a life where if I meet God, he she it's going to go. You're welcome. And then lays into that, I wrote it in green lights, but I do have a hunch that the world's conspiring to make me happy. Again, I may be off my rocker. I may be I may be a a conspiracy theory for the upside. I may be delusionally Optimistic. And I I don't care. I

I I actually believe it. It's the trust first thing. >> Mhm. >> I actually believe it. And I believe I'm a part of a lot of other people's army that are there conspiring to make them happy. And I believe that I've got a lot of an army that are going not consciously just I look I believe I I know I got a lot of people in my life that believe know that if I'm around I'm Looking out for them and I have their best interest in mind whether they know it or not consciously and I

know I have a lot of people in life some I know a lot I know a lot I don't that are like looking out for you MC and I'm very thankful for that but I believe that and it Yeah, I know it's true. >> Do you think we can all build that belief? >> Yes, I do think we can build that belief >> that everything's conspiring. >> I don't think we can rely on that belief. I do think we can build that belief. I do think that raising, you know, kiddos, we're going to ACL, kiddos.

We're going in backstage. Come on. Me and your mom are here. Pass the security guard. lets us in. Did y'all say thank you? Yeah, we did. Or no. Well, go go go say thank you. Why? I don't know. Let's think Selfishly, bud. 10 years from now when you're at the concert and your mom and dad ain't here. Who got you in backstage to the to the front of the line and you're 20 people back in the line and they're saying no more. That's it. There's chance that security guard may look down there and go, "Hey,

Levi, come on up. Come on in." Because you said thank you. I'm not saying be that way for like, "Oh, then I can get more. I'll Get more privileges." I'm just saying where you go, how you interact with people at whatever height in the back kitchen to the back door to the alley to the homeless to the billionaire to the pres. how you interact with people. It's it it rever it re you're slowly building an army. I I had this I tell this example and uh I was coming home about two years ago two-lane highway

and it was all parked just going kind of a traffic jam was Taking we just moving 5 miles an hour stop. 5 miles an hour stop and there was a lady in a in a car here and we just moved into this new home. lady in a car here and everyone's like, you know, get forward as quick as possible. And she was waiting to get into the tournament. And so like I was like, we're not going anywhere. I slowed down, let her in. 15 minutes it takes to get home. I'm noticed I'm right behind this

lady. As I approach my house, she pulls in the Driveway to the first driveway before I get to my house. I pull in my house. I get out of my car. It's my neighbor. I didn't know it was my neighbor, but I'm like, >> I GOT SOMEBODY inherently watching over my house when I'm not here from now because I let her in. >> Yeah. >> Back there. >> Yeah. >> And she goes, "Thank you for letting me In back there." I remember that. Did I do that because >> I'm hoping I can get a neighbor

and part of an army that can keep an eye out for me? No. Did I get an army, someone on my side? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. the conspiring point too. I think if you if you believe that everything is conspiring for you to be happy, you just Start to notice those moments. And I think noticing is so much more important than >> thinking because we all think but we don't always notice. >> Yes. >> It's like what do we notice every day? If you notice the security guard who opened the door, if you

notice the, you know, the lady who eventually becomes part of your army at home, it's like, what are you noticing? Because you can Notice both. Like, I think I could sit here with you and I'm sure you could tell me two stories. One story of everyone who screwed you over, took advantage of you, exploited you, where the trust first didn't work. >> And I think you're telling me another story today, which you're noticing, which is you saying, >> "Oh, yeah." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, what do we Yeah. What do we

Notice? What are we aware of? What do we give credit to? I think that's part of the athleticism of life because that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical. >> Correct. It does mean I'm not cynical. It doesn't mean I'm not clever and wise and letting my home be just pillaged. And I got a lot to protect and I protect it. It doesn't mean I'm foolish with myself or with my things and my life and the Family and things I've built. But yeah, what do I what do what what do we notice? What do we give credit

to and go, "Oh, let's tend that garden. Let's multiply that. Let's get some compound interest on that ROI. Let's make that epidemic, not the disease, not the wreck, not the harm. I talk about it in points of prayers. Make the positives plural. >> Yeah. >> And the negatives singular. >> Yes. >> And don't talk about the negatives. >> Amen. Yeah. >> In the present tense. If they happened, talk about them in the past tense. You stop their path to prophecy. That's the noticing thing. And that doesn't mean don't Oh, no. I don't see the negatives.

No, no, no. That's childhood. Hey, Hallmark card. Dream it. You can do it. Positive thinking. Yeah. See how far that gets you. You Know what I mean? You'll be done unto. And then, you know, so we go from innocence to naive to skepticism. And then if we can hold off there from going off the ledge into that fourth one, which is a disease, cynicism. M >> I'm all for skepticism and noticing the negative, seeing the harm, noticing the disease, but sure like to spend time and notice more and compound the interest on the Prevention of

those cures or the multiplied factor of the good things that are conspiring to work for us and are just like there we go that works not only for me for you too. >> Mhm. >> Make those epidemic again. I love flip flip flip the word epidemic's always used. It's just something like oh no >> just like consequence. >> We all go oh I don't not the consequence like no get consequences with Everything. >> And the positive side the pleasure side of consequence is just as valuable as the negative. You got to you know >> epidemic

selfish consequence. Those are the three that that you're going to fight for. Matthew, I could talk to you for hours and hours and I've been so grateful for your time and energy. We we end every episode with a final five which we did last time. So, we've reconstructed them for you. Uh, these Questions have to be answered in one sentence, but I'll probably want you to riff. So, feel free. Don't don't feel any pressure, >> okay? But try to get them out in one sentence. >> You can try, but if but I would like you

to I want you to free flow, but yeah, >> you're always the best when you're free flowing. So, I don't want to I don't want to hamper you and Yeah. Uh, question number one, What do you believe makes a good dad? time being there. You know, I say this is that's what makes a good father. You know, sometimes we're under the illusion that if we make the baby, we're the father. No, you're not. You may be the the daddy papa, but it takes time to be a father, To be there for your children, to balance

sharing with them what you already know so they can learn a little quicker and hold them back and letting them fall from that tree limb and bruise their arm on their own because that's how they'll remember Because even though you knew sometimes there's certain heights I call it like tree limbs or certain kids go out on limbs and if we brush every limb they go out On I mean they're on the limb and they're they're they're 5 years old and it's it's 5 feet above the soft St. Augustine grass. If we rush over there and

go get down get down get they No, no, no. You're going to you're going to stunt their growth and their they have fear of heights. Kids don't aren't aren't scared of heights until they die. Until they fall, right? Let them go out there. That's a safe fall. May get a bruise. Now, there's certain ones if They're 60 feet up and it's a concrete you might want to go. Hey, bud. I was thinking come just take your time and come on over to the trunk and shimmy on that. Maybe get a help them get them down

from that. But certain limbs, let them get on the end of it. Let them let them fall. Let them let them get bruised. Let them They'll remember that from experience. And so, yeah, >> I like it. Uh, question number two. What Does it mean to be a real man? >> To be a real man? Well, you know, staying on the fatherhood thing, and this is not just the the only definition, but I'll piggyback off the last question. The only thing I ever knew in life I wanted to be was a father. And it is because

I remember I was 8 years old. My dad was a big yes sir and no sir man. So he would introduce me to his friends, right? And I would always as 8y olds looking up From four, five, six, seven, eight years old shake their hand. Yes, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you. And what hit me at 8 years old was that all of those men whose hands I shake and called them sir, they were dads. They were fathers. And in my 8-year-old mind, I went, "Oh, that's how you make it. That's

success." Become a father. That's how you become a man. That's how you become a king. So, that's not answer across the board, but that's going to be my answer. >> Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Uh, and I I'll only do three because of time. Um, last one. What does it mean to be a good friend? >> Yeah. Yeah. A good friend reminds their friend of the the best in themselves, the truth in themselves. Whether it's there to say, "Yeah, just like that when they are the most themselves or whether it's there to go, hey, you

know, you got this other way. I mean in the situation you handle it like this and it was so pure man and it kind of didn't go that way this ah so saying hard things and helping them kind of renegotiate or showing to them objectively hey I see who you are you've Shown me who you are and then when you're you I'm over here going and uh I take great pleasure in seeing you succeed without me. >> Wow. Wow. That's powerful. >> A good friend really takes honest and earnest pleasure in seeing their friend succeed

with without them. >> We to end we got a little note from a good friend of yours. >> Oh. uh who sent it in and I think it'll Be better if you read it out loud than me because it's for you and so I'm gonna hand it to you and you can uh read it out loud for us. >> What do we got here? >> I marvel at how you move through this world. Amazing actor, bestselling author, innovative entrepreneur, first rate father, husband and son, but more than anything a brilliant philosopher. And it is that

philosophy that pervades Everything you do. One that intertwines curiosity with poetry. From the time I met you nearly 30 years ago, I knew you were my brother. And you continue to inspire me to this day. Love you, buddy. Wood. PS. Miss our cuddle time. Me and Camila. THAT IS >> PERFECT. >> YEAH. >> AH, thank you, buddy. >> Thank you. >> He is a great friend. He is a great friend. Boy, he is a good friend to me. I love the way that he loves >> me. >> It's really, really beautiful to receive. >> Well,

Matthew, thank you for your time, your energy. uh whether I'm reading your books, whether I'm in your presence, or whether I'm listening to you. As I said to you before the first time I Interviewed you, I listened to your acceptance speech from the Oscars every day for 30 days once upon a time in my life. And there only two speeches I've done that with. One is Steve Jobs's commencement speech at Stamford and one is your acceptance speech. I listen to it every day for 30 days. And it it intern I find when you do that

it internalizes ideas and um concepts and energy in a way that You don't get if you don't repeat. So very grateful to you for your life, your work and >> you're welcome and thanks for sharing that with me, man. Yeah, >> thank you so much. >> Had a wonderful time. >> Appreciate you. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative Self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success,

and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. >> Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like, as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, "I like this enough for other people to see