How was the wine of Jesus' time? Certainly a natural wine, without additives. A wine that was fermented grapes, with a lot of energy.
. . On one of the coldest days of the year, I'm arriving here in the Marais district, a few meters from the Seine River, very close to the Picasso Museum.
I'm coming here to Divvino, which is the cellar of Marina Giuberti, a Brazilian who is the only Brazilian recognized by the government of France as a sommelier, she is a cavista master. And what brought me here is because Marina, she is very religious and understands everything about wine and she will tell me what I most wanted to know. What were wines like in Jesus' time?
[Infinite Journey] Pleasure to see you! Pleasure, welcome! Let's talk about wine, about Jesus.
I'm curious that you told me that there is a wine that is made the old-fashioned way. Exactly we have some wines in a natural process that are made as we would imagine those wines from the Wedding of Cana, centuries ago, the first wines that are told hundreds of times in the Bible. And that's what I'm going to try to make you taste here.
I wanted to invite you to follow our Infinite Journey. Subscribe to the channel, turn on the notifications so you don't miss a thing. And here you have wine from the whole world?
We have wine from all over the world, more than a thousand references with a focus on France, but touring Italy, all of Europe, Croatia, Germany, Greece, some countries, right? Lontanos like Israel. .
. Lontano reveals your Italian. .
. Ah, that's right. I'm now starting to travel the world looking for stories related to the sacred, which are mainly human beings' relationships with God.
And for a reason there has many different explanations, but this story has often been connected to wine. Especially in Christianity, also in Judaism. So I wanted to understand from you, it's the main reason I came here today.
How has wine been transformed in history and the importance it has had throughout history within religions, especially Christianity? And you told me before we met, over the phone, you told me that there is a story relating to French wine, the best French wine is also linked to religion in some way. I wanted to understand what this is.
Well, these are endless subjects but we will summarize here. In fact, our journey is endless. Wine is a daily and endless apprenticeship, the more you study, the more you learn, the more you will become humble before it precisely because you realize that you still know very little and that a lifetime is not enough to learn everything.
Not even to drink everything I wanted. No, it won't be possible, as it won't be possible to read the books, it won't be possible to do everything. But you choose.
Wine in French history is directly linked to the monarchy and the clergy. When we think of that movie "The Name of the Rose", those closed libraries, the libraries they were destined for a social level within the nobility, monarchy, and a level of the clergy. And who made the wines were the monks and the best abbeys made the best wines.
But why did you mention a library along with wine? What is the relationship of the books? To make good wine, you have to, imagining at a time that.
. . that life expectancy was very short, we didn't have medicine, antibiotics.
So people would die at 38, 40 years old. So, at that time, you needed to read and write, and have a record to pass on to the next generation. What has been proven, tested and worked needs to be recorded for the next generation of monks.
So in those libraries, for example, like the one in the movie "The Name of the Rose", were there manuals on how to make good wine? Yes, and we can find these manuals. I even had access to some of them that were, you know, reproduced that are in Burgundy and in other regions of France.
What if we made a wine today following this manual from the Middle Ages, for example? If we copy this manual, it will work and we will have access to a rustic wine, without added chemical product, which we didn't have all the chemical substances that exist today, because, you know, to be used in immunology. So, wine has more than 70 products that can be added, industrial wine, conventional, but it is a manufactured wine, it is a wine with a lot of make-up.
I don't like it very much but it's the reality of the market. So what do you like? I like natural wine, for example, well-made natural wine.
Natural wine, it will have fermented grapes, so the grape is a fruit harvested at the right time, this is also very important, what is the moment of this harvest with the ripe grape. To harvest ripe grapes, you run risks because if it rains in the summer, the grapes will rot and you lose a year's work. And then it will go through the oenology process, so it will have to be done in a methodology, according to the region where it is.
And this grape will ferment like the process of bread, bread and wine are closely linked. . .
Is this wine as it should be made? All wine is made this way, so far, all wines are made this way. The grape ferments, so it's a process where the fructose, which is the natural sugar of the grape, will be transformed into alcohol, into glycerol.
So this one we call AF, to make it easy. AF: alcoholic fermentation. Glycerol transformed .
. . Fructose transformed into glycerol, sugar into alcohol.
Wine. Nature's process. And what's the difference between the wine that we have today made here in France, all over the world, and what we had two thousand years ago, for example?
It's just that today the oenology process allows you to add many additives to create a desired flavor. I want a more fluid wine, I want a more alcoholic wine, I want a less acidic wine, more acidic. So, I can acidify, fluidize, thicken, add.
. . gum arabic, adding citric acid, acid.
. . I can create many products and change the final product depending on what the consumer wants.
Then I serve a consumer but I take authenticity as it is. I no longer have a genuine product. The priests you mentioned previously, who did, you know, who were associated with the French monarchy, did they have a method to not lose, was it chemical in some way or was it totally natural?
No, they already had some methods in their notebooks, but it's not what it is today. They had the methods of observing nature. .
. Is this Middle Ages? Middle Ages.
. . That is, about 700 years ago, 800, 1000 years ago.
. . There are records in Israel of wines a thousand years ago.
Ah, with a manual of how to make them? There's a method, when you go to museums, I was at the Vatican museum last week, and I took pictures of amphoras, jars, pieces of jars that had wine in them. So let's do the following, let's go back in time.
What was wine like in Jesus' time? Certainly a natural wine, without additives, a wine that was basically fermented grapes, with a lot of energy and also with good energy and energy from the struggle of that time. So, each bottle is unique because the wine is alive.
You mean, if it was a violent time, the wine had. . .
It will make you agitated. If it was a calm moment, in a calm harvest that the winemaker is doing very well, the wine will bring you that feeling too. And it happens today.
But here is what I wanted to understand, what was it like now in terms of flavor? What was the wine of Jesus' time like in terms of taste? So let's taste this wine here.
Can I say that I'm tasting a wine from the time of Jesus? Yes, this is a wine made in terracotta, without additives. It is made in France, in the Rhone, in the South.
. . Marina is very chic.
Terracotta is clay. It's clay. Exactly.
So, was the wine from Cana similar to this one? If it was white, it would look like this. So we have to try a red because I think that one was red.
Let's try both. Santé! Cheers!
If you observe, we will. . .
a tasting begins with the visual phase. So it doesn't have filtration, it's not clear. So, natural wine will not be clear, red or white.
Then, second element, I'm going to see if the nose corresponds to an aroma that will seem to me a natural aroma, an aroma without additives. When you shake like that, you'll notice some ethereals, you know, that rise with oxygenation. I'm too big of a layman if I say there's some sulfur smell in here?
No! Your nose, you olfactory memory, it can feel everything that your brain tells your nose to feel and that your mouth wants to speak, everything is allowed. And for you, does sulfur make sense here or not?
To me, it doesn't have sulfur, but to me it has an acetic note, the acetic note is linked to vinegar. I'm finding it amazing! Sensational!
And it's not because it's from Jesus' time. It's not because of that, it's because he's really good. We were talking about energy, right?
This wine really, it also has a method, in addition to being natural, it is made in cosmoculture and that is why I made a point of choosing this winery. There are only a few wineries that use cosmoculture. They.
. . Felipe is an innovator, passionate about what he does, the producer.
He even opened a school of cosmoculture. And what is cosmoculture? Cosmoculture is working your plants, your vines, according to the Cosmos.
It's a bit Gnostic, isn't it? That Christian sect that thought in different dimensions in the Cosmos. I went to the winery, I went.
I slept at his parents' house. And he put stones, you know, for the energy of the stone, of the five elements, he placed very large stone pieces in the middle of the vines and he has homeopathy sprayers in the middle of the vines working on it. Well, that is on another level, in another dimension.
Yes. Always important. .
. Why did you smell the cork? I smelled it because the cork is made of an organic material, it is the bark of a tree and if it has a certain bacteria, the TCA, it could be contaminated and then the aroma goes entirely to the wine, damaging the wine.
So, it's very important to feel that smell. It is super healthy. .
. Even if she's not all red, will you smell it? I will always smell it.
And then, here, by chance, I opened it and there are some other things. There is the name, which is one of the most guaranteed brands that I have, so I already looked at this brand, this label. I already know and I already know like this, the probability is 0.
01% Are the corks from Portugal? Portugal, Spain, Sardinia. This here is also a very cool thing to analyze.
This wine has not received any invasion of oxygen, there it is, the cork is in its natural color and the only red part is here. So the quality factor, 100% qualitative. When this part of the red wine leaks a little here, I can have oxygen entering the bottle, negatively altering the wine.
I learned to call it bochonet. . .
? Bouchonné. That's when the wine goes up, then it spoiled, right?
When it's spoiled, the wine is bouchonné, then you can return the bottle. Without being ashamed to return. Send it back!
You send it back, very kindly and explaining, with technique, why you are returning it, because you can't just say I didn't like the wine, you know? I can see here on the cork that this is a Shiraz. Yes.
That means he's from a region of Syria called Shiraz, right? Right. So it's probably one of the grapes that existed in Jerusalem at that time?
I chose this grape for this reason because many people say that the Shiraz grape comes from Australia or the Northern Rhone, but no. Shiraz is a grape originally from Syria, from that whole region of the Holy Land it comes from there, probably one of the oldest grapes on record. The smell is not good.
Didn't like it? The smell, in principle, no. It's a natural wine too, so it's normal that, at the opening.
. . Can I tell you what I'm smelling?
Sure. Being quite ignorant again. .
. It smells like plastic. .
. And street fair. It's not good.
I thought you were going to say stable smell. I was going to say musk. Musk?
But I am starting to like it. The bad smell from the beginning is gone, so it's not in the taste. Natural wine needs to adapt, it needs aeration, bigger glasses.
So this here is a basic cup that has. . .
It looks like it has. . .
It's not gas, but it feels like it has a something vibrant in it. He. .
. We're talking about alcoholic fermentation, so I don't put sulphite, sulphite is the preservative that won't let the wine spoil. But, can I tell you something?
Until today, every organic wine I've had I've thought was bad. Not this one, this one is wonderful. There is no such thing as bad organic wine, there is no such thing as bad conventional wine.
There is the wrong chosen bottle. OK. But it is hard.
There's wrong timing too, isn't there? There is the wrong person. .
. On a bad day, you're going to have a good wine, you won't even understand that it was good. If you are in your bad mood.
. . There is, like, if you are with a nice person, the wine is nicer.
Thanks. Oh, you weren't talking about me, were you? Now question that always comes up.
Ah, the wine has to be at room temperature. Where is this room? That is correct.
Where is this room? The wine at room temperature. .
. The red, it will be tasted between 12 and 15 degrees Celsius. If you drink a Romanée.
. . If it's the Rio de Janeiro weather in the summer, it is going to be a horrible wine.
You have to put it on ice. Okay, so it's not room temperature. And in France, in the summer, you also have to put red wine on ice.
But you have to watch it. Since we have a scarce workforce, the best thing, and it's easy, is for you to understand a little, to learn a little and control your bucket. When it's at a good temperature, take the wine out of the bucket.
. . It shouldn't get too cold because, when too cold, all wines taste the same, right?
Most iced wines will taste the same. Sometimes, it's necessary. A bad wine or a very simple wine, you chill it to hide the taste.
The tip there, look. Marina's tip, people. You have bad wine at home, you have guests, leave it in the freezer.
It's like beer, at the last minute, no one notices. Hey, Rodrigo, here in France we say "cacher la misère". Ah, hide the misery.
Exactly. It's the French term we use. Chill the wine "pour cacher la misère".
What temperature is this here? This one is at 14 Celsius. And it's perfect?
It's great. Marina, do you think the wine from the "Wedding at Cana" was similar to this one? It could be, it could be this grape, for example, that's why I chose it.
The grape, we almost agreed that it had a great chance, but what about the style of the wine, was it also similar? It was. More watery?
It wouldn't have. . .
Here I got a product, a natural shiraz made by a young producer, who has a lot of passion for what he does, in a minimal quantity. So I'm here tasting a wine that was made in just one barrel. 274 bottles.
I don't believe it. So this one should be very expensive. It is not very expensive, we have a very important selection.
It was made by Junior, check it out, JR. And it is, it is Jeremy. Jeremy?
How much does this bottle cost? Thirty something [euros]. Wow, but he only made 270.
But he has another one that costs 500 [euros]. Oops, he's smart. Marina, do you agree with what the servant said at the "Wedding at Cana", the servant said to the groom: "Wow, you served the good wine at the end, normally people put the good wine at the beginning and, when everyone is drunk, you give the bad wine".
Is this the best method? Well, since it was a miracle, I'll agree. But nowadays, French sommelierie says that the wines have to be a crescendo, growing.
Oh, is it the other way around? It's the opposite. So, people already ate, they're already tired, that's when they get the good one?
But then you have poetic license to do whatever you want. For example, I, Marina, talking to you, I say: "take advantage of the cleanliness of your palate to get the best wine soon because you don't know at the end". I agree.
And great French chefs, not all, very few, you get the amuse bouche, sometimes he puts on a truffle Amuse bouche is what? Amuse bouche is fun for your mouth, which is, in French gastronomy, the big tables, the three-star, starred chefs, you arrive before the starter or the main course, he brings you something to amuse the palate. Also known as oral entertainment, is it?
And also another rule which is "never give pearls to swine". What does that mean in our case here? Good wine for those who appreciate it.
Ah. . .
So you're not going to open an exceptional bottle for a beer drinker or someone just starting out. This person also has to prepare the palate for that special wine. Just to explain here, you know, why.
. . in the miracle of Cana, why is the good wine at the end, you know, so symbolic?
Because it is understood throughout Christianity, you know, since many years ago, as Jesus being good wine, right? The news, the good news that Jesus brings, right, the good news that Jesus brings is the good wine. And then, that's why this miracle is so symbolic.
That's why it's so remembered, right? Because there is a world before and after Jesus, the bad wine and then the good wine. It's the transformation of water into wine, what tasted like nothing into something wonderful.
When I got here, I told people about your faith. You are a very religious person, right? Yes, I was in a coma in childbirth ten years ago.
So I crossed to the other side and came back. Oh, how was it? It was fine, but I really saw a light, I saw Jesus, I saw my father, who is dead, on the ceiling.
It was here in Paris that my children were born, I had twins by natural birth, with a hellp syndrome. Wait, slow down a little bit because the story is very interesting, I wanted to understand it better. You were here in Paris, you were giving birth.
Giving birth in a maternity ward downtown. . .
Twins. Two boys, two girls? One of each.
A couple. In the center of Paris. Fraternal twins?
Yes, two placentas. And then, what happened that, suddenly, you said that you met Jesus? I had a complicated, lengthy delivery.
A forceps delivery in which I lost a lot of blood. And, when the second baby was born, when the second baby was born. .
. He went to the pediatrics department and the mother of twins can't hold the baby in natural childbirth because it's complicated. When they came to bring the babies to hold, I didn't have the strength.
I have a video that shows that I don't have any strength. And then I asked them to take my son away from me, I said "I can't, take him away otherwise he will fall". Did you think you were going to die?
I thought I was going to die. Then. I had exactly the feeling that in three minutes, or five, I would no longer be on this plane here.
What did you think? I thought of a feeling of enormous weakness, that I was like a candle going out. I said "I'm blacking out, I'm fading away".
Did you have the feeling that your soul was leaving your body? At that moment not yet, at that moment I still didn't have it. I was realizing that I was going to enter this process and I warned the nurse.
I said: "I'm feeling really bad, call the doctor back". Then she said: "it's normal, you had twins, you lost a lot of blood, you're petite". Then I said: "no, I'm going to die in a few minutes".
And then, it was this courage, this, this, this sentence that saved me. Why? Because then she called the delivery team, ten people back in the room in a matter of minutes.
She took it seriously then? She took it seriously. I said: "I'm going to die".
And then they started, they realized I was, what I was going through, a multiple organ failure syndrome, really serious. And then, at that moment I already went into convulsion, oxygen. And then, I still remember being in a kind of tunnel, where I talked.
. . How was the tunnel, tell me?
A passage of light, but I could see the hospital room. I was there in that room. .
. Were you conscious? I was no longer conscious like I am now, it was another kind of consciousness.
With eyes closed or open? Eyes closed. With a light.
My father, who is dead, was on the ceiling. As if he were saying: "I'm here, everything's fine". Looking at you?
Yeah, on the ceiling like this: "I'm here, everything's fine". But I was feeling that maternal instinct: "I gave birth to two children". And you're going to let them because you're going to die?
I can't, I can't leave them, it's not the time. So, at that moment I made a negotiation with God there. I said "yes, I understand that I'm going, but I can't go either, I'm not going because I can't go".
And what did God say? Then he didn't answer. .
. I argued several things, I said: "look, there are two children, it's not the time, I think this is the moment for me to raise these children, take care of these children". And, in my mind, it all lasted a few minutes, like, ten minutes, five minutes.
But I woke up, yeah, I woke up ten hours later. When I woke up, I took everything, I took oxygen, I took everything. Did you leave?
I sat on the bed. And then, something beeped, someone came and said "no, you can't". I said "I'm fine, where are my children?
" How old are they today? Ten years old, so that was ten years ago. And then, we toasted with champagne, the best champagne there is in France.
What it is? Selosse. What do you think happened?
I think there's faith, it saved me and my faith, along with faith, a will. A will and a belief. You believe you have to live.
So we're going to finish up toasting with wine, which is perhaps as close as we can get today. . .
With the wine from Cana. . .
With the wine from Cana, from the Wedding at Cana. Cheers! Cheers!
L'Chaim!
